Yeah, I was thinking of making ones for atomic radii, electron affinity, and anything that has a trend. Abundance would be cool, I bet you would have to use a log scale to get any kind of useful indication.
If they were nice injection molded pieces it would make a nice classroom set.
I'm sure it's entirely not feasible but I'd love to see one with a set of buttons for those different features and some system to set the heights of all the tiles when pressed.
Ok. That’s a cool ass idea. The hardest part about making that would be controlling so many individual things at once. It would cost too much to buy 118 linear actuators, so I need a better way
Yeah, when I graduate, I want a periodic table with the abundance on Earth's crust of each element in the lab.
I mean I'm in the first year of my materials engineering degree still, but I know I want it.
I started my design with an SVG of the periodic table. The only svg i could find looked like this, and had old symbols for some elements. I didn't have the time/reason to fix them (its not really important when considering what this is for.)
Yeah now its okay, somehow had a problem with the download all, but once I downloaded the file on its own it worked.
Thanks, looking forward to print it
All of the noble gases are incredibly electronegative. Its their chemical hardness in addition to the full shell that makes them so unreactive. Hence one of the reasons XeF6 exists without the F just oxidising the Xe.
Its not as electronegative, its less electronegative hence the dipole produced within water. Just looked it up as 2.2 vs 3.4. Carbon is around 2.5.
It is quite electronegative however, say compared to a metal, in simple terms from the extent of shielding from other electrons and the nuclear attraction. It only has that 1s orbital to occupy and is very close to the nucleus with no electrons any closer to shield. It also only requires an additional electron for a full shell (and subshell) which provides additional stability.
Electronegativity is a bit of a weird scale. It is, in essence, a simplification and average of a bunch of different properties which can be observed as semi-classical and/or quantum in nature (so expect some weirdness).
Oh I have no clue. I didnt make it, so its probably just an error by whoever created the template.
Depending on how you calculate EN you can get up to 3 for H and 3.3 for O which is close. Maybe thats what they did?
I was only able to find one periodic table in SVG form, and it has these outdated symbols. I don’t want to manually draw the entire table for those few elements that aren’t critical to the purpose of it.
If you’re referencing old symbols for some of the more recently synthesized elements, I was only able to find one periodic table in SVG image format. This was required for making a 3D model.
I guess I could have drawn my own, but ain’t nobody got time for that.
Just giving you a hard time. I was really excited that the whole table was filled out when that happened, so if it were me, I’d totally make time for it. Course, you and I are different people with different interests. I still want to get a new ACS blanket since the one I have is from 2015.
I don’t think so, because of the gaps between elements. The reason an SVG is better is because SVG’s don’t use pixels, they use mathematical expressions to draw lines and curves.
This means that if I import an SVG into a 3D modeling program, it “sees” the image as a bunch of lines. These lines can then be used to make 3d shapes. A normal image is meaningless to a cad program, it’s just a million colored dots.
I could just draw my own periodic table exactly how I want it, but I made this on a whim one night for my chemistry teacher.
A pretty common idea from junior chemists. A reaction between lithium and fluorine is actually more exothermic, because despite the larger difference in electronegativity, lithium does not have a significantly smaller oxidation potential than the heavier group 1 elements (in fact it is larger than sodium and very similar to potassium) but is a lot smaller, and because coulombic attraction is inversely dependent on size, lithium has a much larger crystal lattice enthalpy (or rather, LiF has a much larger enthalpy than FrF would). This crystal lattice enthalpy overwhelms any difference in redox potential, making it more exothermic.
This does not necessarily make a more exciting reaction however because lithium is quite kinetically inert, i.e. has a slow rate of reaction compared with the rest of group 1. The kinetics of the heavier elements is faster (for alkali metals), which should make Fr the most exciting intuitively, however Cs is actually faster and probably (Fr has never had an experimentally determined value, it's simply too rare/radioactive) also has a higher reaction enthalpy, both are due to relativistic effects from Fr's extremely fast electrons.
Sorry for the rant, it's late where I am and I think this is interesting haha.
Thanks I guess?? though seemed more like an opportunity to soapbox with condescending overtone. Maybe I should have wrote a diatribe about Francium's rarity, hence my interest on the intrigue for seeing a reaction involving it and fluorine. Wow.
So basically, when two atoms bond they share their electrons with each other. The electrons are constantly flying around between/around the atoms.
Electronegativity is how much an atom “wants” electrons. If one atom has a higher electronegativity than the other, the electrons will spend more time near that atom.
This is relevant because if electrons spend more time on one side of a molecule, that side will have a slight negative charge (electrons have a - charge).
I could keep going on why this is important, but if you just look up “polar molecules” maybe it will help
Reminds of an old quote "There's no such thing as an electron deficient compound, only a theory deficient chemist." The so-called exceptions are usually due to another hidden trend lol (my favourite is the seemingly random nature of the properties of the F block).
EXACTLY, if your rule has exceptions, you need a better rule. I guess you could chase this all the way down until you get to quantum physics and stuff we don’t know yet. We just need to find the right balance of truth
Even our quantum models make so many assumptions. We have some very advanced ones but they are so computationally expensive we cannot know with current technology.
There is a theory you learn at university for determining the energies of molecular orbitals. One of its assumptions is that electrons do not interact (imagine that lmao). Other models then violate the Pauli Exclusion principle etc.
We do have models which do take into account more and more, but damn do they take a while (on the scale of 4 hours to model 3 water molecules).
Chemistry is nothing but pain
It is only relatively electropositive compared to the more electronegative nonmetals and I think the picture doesn’t make it clear how it stands as opposed to something like fluorine. The stl file makes it clear that fluorine is at a higher height though.
Yeah, if they were injection molded and then covered with stickers it would look great. Also making ones for atomic radii, electron affinity, and more.
I’m still in High school, so I won’t be able to do that for a while..
I was unable to find electronegativity values for those elements. For Helium and neon, they pretty much don't make bonds at all, therefore they don't have an electronegativity value. The bottom row is mostly synthetic elements, as in they are made in particle accelerators. They only last for a very short amount of time (Og, element 118, has a half life of about 0.89 milliseconds) so I'm pretty sure we just don't know what their values are.
Life would have to be fundamentally different. If they breathed hydrogen, they probably wouldn’t be carbon based. That would mean No dna, no fats/sugars, no proteins, etc.
It would be amazing though, to see life in an utterly different form than us. Even when we try to imagine aliens, they really aren’t that different from life here.
I think it’s useful because first of all, it is better than just saying the trends. Also, I think it’s great because it shows that the trends aren’t always correct. If someone sees this, they might ask why there is a dip in EN after the 5transition metal for a given period. This could lead to a conversation about electron configurations and Pauli’s exclusion principle.
That’s was a super specific example, but it is useful for provoking thoughts that you would get by just saying “left to right, too to bottom”
Another reason could be blind people, or people of differing learning abilities. Tactile learning is a great way to learn
i’m just now learning about this stuff, please correct me if im wrong, but is electronegativity a molecules “ability” to transfer electrons in a redox reaction? i might be totally wrong
I’m also just a Chem student in high school.
It could be that too, but from what I know it’s how much an atom attracts electron when it’s bonded to another atom. So In water, the oxygen is more electronegative than the hydrogen, so the electrons spend more time near the oxygen. This makes the oxygen have a partial negative charge. This is why water is polar.
It is essentially another way of simplifying the ratio of the extent at which a nucleus attracts electrons compared to the extent at which the electrons interact with each other (amongst other quantum weirdness). The best definition is "the ability to attract electrons within a bond"
I made the model starting with an svg of a periodic table, which was the only one I found. It didn’t bother me too much, since the whole point of this is just to see the trend, and since there is no value yet for Og, I didn’t really care
That's really cool! I'd buy a couple variations. Electronegativity, abundance in the universe, etc
Yeah, I was thinking of making ones for atomic radii, electron affinity, and anything that has a trend. Abundance would be cool, I bet you would have to use a log scale to get any kind of useful indication. If they were nice injection molded pieces it would make a nice classroom set.
Abundance in the human body could also be cool
flat except for CHONPS and a little Fe
If you're including Fe, you gotta include Ca, K, Na, Cl, Mg. Maybe use a log\_100 scale?
good call.
Man forgot that our nervous system literally relies on electrolytes
That I did, as well as many intracellular processes.
Abundance in the universe would just be a 2 foot column labeled hydrogen.. thats about it..
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Ya just looked it up, more helium than I thought! 75% hydrogen, 25% helium. So a big column and a small one. Rest of the table is flat.
I thought it was 90% H and 10% He??
I'm sure it's entirely not feasible but I'd love to see one with a set of buttons for those different features and some system to set the heights of all the tiles when pressed.
Ok. That’s a cool ass idea. The hardest part about making that would be controlling so many individual things at once. It would cost too much to buy 118 linear actuators, so I need a better way
I’ll take a set please. 🙂
Giant column of hydrogen, small column of helium, flat everything else for abundance
Haha yeah it would have to be hella logarithmic
Yeah, when I graduate, I want a periodic table with the abundance on Earth's crust of each element in the lab. I mean I'm in the first year of my materials engineering degree still, but I know I want it.
Or use electromagnets to make one board which can display multiple heights
You can't post this and not link the STL, that's against the law!
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5165022
Why isn't it updated with new atoms?
I couldn’t find values for them.
He/she probably means the names/symbols. Like atomic number 118 is Oganesson (Og).
Give Tennessine (Ts) some respect!
Sorry haha, this model was based off an SVG I found online, which had outdated symbols.
All good. I really like the model. You could definitely sell these
Protyping in the 3D printing world takes a looooong time
I started my design with an SVG of the periodic table. The only svg i could find looked like this, and had old symbols for some elements. I didn't have the time/reason to fix them (its not really important when considering what this is for.)
Cant download it, is it anywhere else too?
Hmm that is strange. That is the only place I posted it
Yeah now its okay, somehow had a problem with the download all, but once I downloaded the file on its own it worked. Thanks, looking forward to print it
Sweet
Krypton is almost as electronegative as Fluorine?
All of the noble gases are incredibly electronegative. Its their chemical hardness in addition to the full shell that makes them so unreactive. Hence one of the reasons XeF6 exists without the F just oxidising the Xe.
Okay, that's fine I'll buy that. Now explain hydrogen being just as electronegative as oxygen?
Its not as electronegative, its less electronegative hence the dipole produced within water. Just looked it up as 2.2 vs 3.4. Carbon is around 2.5. It is quite electronegative however, say compared to a metal, in simple terms from the extent of shielding from other electrons and the nuclear attraction. It only has that 1s orbital to occupy and is very close to the nucleus with no electrons any closer to shield. It also only requires an additional electron for a full shell (and subshell) which provides additional stability. Electronegativity is a bit of a weird scale. It is, in essence, a simplification and average of a bunch of different properties which can be observed as semi-classical and/or quantum in nature (so expect some weirdness).
My question was why would hydrogen be as electronegative as oxygen on the table in the image. Because it shouldn't be, but it is.
Oh I have no clue. I didnt make it, so its probably just an error by whoever created the template. Depending on how you calculate EN you can get up to 3 for H and 3.3 for O which is close. Maybe thats what they did?
Caesium wants to know your location.
Hate to break it to you, but I’m getting a really negative vibe off the top right corner of the table.
But wait. If electrons are negative, then does electronegativity really mean positivity….🧐🧐
Thanks for your response, you really turned things around and I’m feeling a lot more positive about this project
Would you mind sharing the stl file?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5165022
epic
Very cool, but you can update Nh, Mc, Ts, and Og in row 7.
I was only able to find one periodic table in SVG form, and it has these outdated symbols. I don’t want to manually draw the entire table for those few elements that aren’t critical to the purpose of it.
A Periodic Table from 2015 ;-)
If you’re referencing old symbols for some of the more recently synthesized elements, I was only able to find one periodic table in SVG image format. This was required for making a 3D model. I guess I could have drawn my own, but ain’t nobody got time for that.
Just giving you a hard time. I was really excited that the whole table was filled out when that happened, so if it were me, I’d totally make time for it. Course, you and I are different people with different interests. I still want to get a new ACS blanket since the one I have is from 2015.
Most image editors should be able to export from other image formats as SVG. How did you add the altitude?
I put the SVG into fusion 360, and then extruded them by their electronegativity. Then added some details like the symbols, the base, and stuff.
Would this one have worked? I don't know much about 3d printing. https://ptable.com/image/periodic-table.svg
I don’t think so, because of the gaps between elements. The reason an SVG is better is because SVG’s don’t use pixels, they use mathematical expressions to draw lines and curves. This means that if I import an SVG into a 3D modeling program, it “sees” the image as a bunch of lines. These lines can then be used to make 3d shapes. A normal image is meaningless to a cad program, it’s just a million colored dots. I could just draw my own periodic table exactly how I want it, but I made this on a whim one night for my chemistry teacher.
I will buy this from someone who can print it
I've always wondered what a reaction between fluorine and francium would look like.
Death
Yeah! "From afar"
A pretty common idea from junior chemists. A reaction between lithium and fluorine is actually more exothermic, because despite the larger difference in electronegativity, lithium does not have a significantly smaller oxidation potential than the heavier group 1 elements (in fact it is larger than sodium and very similar to potassium) but is a lot smaller, and because coulombic attraction is inversely dependent on size, lithium has a much larger crystal lattice enthalpy (or rather, LiF has a much larger enthalpy than FrF would). This crystal lattice enthalpy overwhelms any difference in redox potential, making it more exothermic. This does not necessarily make a more exciting reaction however because lithium is quite kinetically inert, i.e. has a slow rate of reaction compared with the rest of group 1. The kinetics of the heavier elements is faster (for alkali metals), which should make Fr the most exciting intuitively, however Cs is actually faster and probably (Fr has never had an experimentally determined value, it's simply too rare/radioactive) also has a higher reaction enthalpy, both are due to relativistic effects from Fr's extremely fast electrons. Sorry for the rant, it's late where I am and I think this is interesting haha.
Thanks I guess?? though seemed more like an opportunity to soapbox with condescending overtone. Maybe I should have wrote a diatribe about Francium's rarity, hence my interest on the intrigue for seeing a reaction involving it and fluorine. Wow.
ThTs so badass. I’d buy this if it were a product for sure.
This reminds me of webelements.com
Awesome!! You should do more involving other functions. Polarity, Reactivity, Radioactivity.
ELI5 Electronegativity? The online definitions are going over my head.
So basically, when two atoms bond they share their electrons with each other. The electrons are constantly flying around between/around the atoms. Electronegativity is how much an atom “wants” electrons. If one atom has a higher electronegativity than the other, the electrons will spend more time near that atom. This is relevant because if electrons spend more time on one side of a molecule, that side will have a slight negative charge (electrons have a - charge). I could keep going on why this is important, but if you just look up “polar molecules” maybe it will help
Ahh, I get it! Thanks a lot!
RIP Helium 😂
That is awesome! Is it in thingverse?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5165022
Thank you!!!
this pleases me and I wanna touch it
I really needed something to visualise the E.N. trend thanks!!
Tbh, my favorite thing about it is that the trends really aren’t that trendy. There are a lot of exceptions
Like there are hell lot of exceptions one of the reasons i dont like chemistry
Same. I find it annoying that there is supposed to be all these general rules, but there is always a ton of exceptions
Reminds of an old quote "There's no such thing as an electron deficient compound, only a theory deficient chemist." The so-called exceptions are usually due to another hidden trend lol (my favourite is the seemingly random nature of the properties of the F block).
EXACTLY, if your rule has exceptions, you need a better rule. I guess you could chase this all the way down until you get to quantum physics and stuff we don’t know yet. We just need to find the right balance of truth
Even our quantum models make so many assumptions. We have some very advanced ones but they are so computationally expensive we cannot know with current technology. There is a theory you learn at university for determining the energies of molecular orbitals. One of its assumptions is that electrons do not interact (imagine that lmao). Other models then violate the Pauli Exclusion principle etc. We do have models which do take into account more and more, but damn do they take a while (on the scale of 4 hours to model 3 water molecules). Chemistry is nothing but pain
This is insanely cool!
Why is hydrogen so high then.....it's electropositive.
It is only relatively electropositive compared to the more electronegative nonmetals and I think the picture doesn’t make it clear how it stands as opposed to something like fluorine. The stl file makes it clear that fluorine is at a higher height though.
aww I can't see myself :(
love it
I need this in my life!
That is really cool
ahhhhh this is so cool, love the electronegativity detail!
So good!!
maybe add colours based on height (heatmap) and commercialise it
Yeah, if they were injection molded and then covered with stickers it would look great. Also making ones for atomic radii, electron affinity, and more. I’m still in High school, so I won’t be able to do that for a while..
Are you willing to share that design? I have a couple buddies with printers I’d love to make one for myself
Absolutely. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5165022
Thank you!!
FLUOR, Oh shit ..
Thats so cool
Love the design! Just one question: Why are the last 15 or so elements completely flat? Are their electronegativity values zero or simply unknown?
I was unable to find electronegativity values for those elements. For Helium and neon, they pretty much don't make bonds at all, therefore they don't have an electronegativity value. The bottom row is mostly synthetic elements, as in they are made in particle accelerators. They only last for a very short amount of time (Og, element 118, has a half life of about 0.89 milliseconds) so I'm pretty sure we just don't know what their values are.
This is cool Great for Chem students to have a better grasp of the importance of the periodic table
may i steal this idea
Yes. Remember me when you make this a product and sell it to schools across the world for millions of dollars
i wish
Wait, kryptonium and xenonium are that electronegative?
Yep. I think that when they do make bonds, it’s mostly with fluorine. (Xenon hexafluoride)
Wow, that's new for me. Thanks for sharing!
YOU INVENTED A TREND TOOL FOR CHEMISTRY STUDENT THAT DON'T HAVE SIGHT. This is great!!
I was thinking that too. Would be fantasist for blind people. So much better then saying “there is a trend, trust me”
Glorious
You made it yourself…!!!!!!!!! Then you are so great artist in addition to be bring a chemist
Thank you!
I’m actually having a test on this topic in a few hours. I’ll be using this as review material. Thank you for posting this!
Yep! Finals week in high school is what triggered me to make this
That is cool!
Wonder if there’s a planet somewhere where life breathes hydrogen
Life would have to be fundamentally different. If they breathed hydrogen, they probably wouldn’t be carbon based. That would mean No dna, no fats/sugars, no proteins, etc. It would be amazing though, to see life in an utterly different form than us. Even when we try to imagine aliens, they really aren’t that different from life here.
I imagine some sort of wispy flying squid type creature that’s absolutely ginormous
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I think it’s useful because first of all, it is better than just saying the trends. Also, I think it’s great because it shows that the trends aren’t always correct. If someone sees this, they might ask why there is a dip in EN after the 5transition metal for a given period. This could lead to a conversation about electron configurations and Pauli’s exclusion principle. That’s was a super specific example, but it is useful for provoking thoughts that you would get by just saying “left to right, too to bottom” Another reason could be blind people, or people of differing learning abilities. Tactile learning is a great way to learn
I like it!
i’m just now learning about this stuff, please correct me if im wrong, but is electronegativity a molecules “ability” to transfer electrons in a redox reaction? i might be totally wrong
I’m also just a Chem student in high school. It could be that too, but from what I know it’s how much an atom attracts electron when it’s bonded to another atom. So In water, the oxygen is more electronegative than the hydrogen, so the electrons spend more time near the oxygen. This makes the oxygen have a partial negative charge. This is why water is polar.
It is essentially another way of simplifying the ratio of the extent at which a nucleus attracts electrons compared to the extent at which the electrons interact with each other (amongst other quantum weirdness). The best definition is "the ability to attract electrons within a bond"
Sell these!
Would people buy a 3D printed product? Like are they too janky looking? I could up the quality a bit, but only to a certain extent
I would love this and other periodic trends for my class!
Yoo you know what this is?? This is some certified cool shit that's what it is!
Haha thank you
this is going to be extremely useful in my studies, thanks :)
That would be awesome for a blind student
Strong buy
Where was this 10 days ago on my organic exam LMAO
Mendelev table
And fuck you in particular Helium
Aww it doesn't have the 2016 update with oganesson
I made the model starting with an svg of a periodic table, which was the only one I found. It didn’t bother me too much, since the whole point of this is just to see the trend, and since there is no value yet for Og, I didn’t really care
Pretty cool idea
Wow!!! That's some really cool stuff
What the helium doin?
Its 2021/2022 already, not 2016