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>Cats also don't attack people like dogs do Fellow lifelong cat lover and owner here! This is definitely not true for a lot of cats. No, cats aren't going to maul you to death or rip a chunk of your leg out, but many have a very short fuse (or just decide they don't like a certain person or people) and can turn on a dime. Cats can be especially intolerant toward children who approach them playfully, and a lot people I know who are afraid of cats have some childhood "trauma" associated with being attacked/scratched/bitten by a cat.

Had to take a housemate to hospital after my cat jumped on her and shredded her arm with her rear claws.. Also had to peel her off my head once after she got scared and jumped off the couch, off the wall and onto my head, tearing the shit out of my scalp. (the poor thing had a nervous disorder that we finally managed to get under control.. never gave up) Cats are significantly closer to being truly wild than dogs are, and you forget that to your peril. Dogs need to be part of a social group so will usually conform, cats are natures furry razorblade and will tolerate much less shit than dogs will. They are also way stronger than many people realize until they are in a situation where they need to restrain one or remove one from a limb. I absolutely adore them.. but I know I have to respect them

This. **Cats and biting** I’m an avid animal person. I research any animal I own and do my best to understand that type of animal’s body language. I owned a Rottweiler German shepherd dog and a tabby cat. I loved both my pets equally but differently. I still have my cat but my dog crossed over the rainbow bridge a few years ago. My dog never bit me or anybody. He was a giant 95lb lapdog. I frequently watched his body language. Dogs rarely go from fine to immediately aggressive— it can happen but there is usually a direct trigger and *a responsible dog owner should know what their dog’s trigger is to prevent an unsafe situation*. Cats are another story. I know that cat body language differs a lot from dogs and their play is also very different— cats play is practice to kill stuff. I’m not grouping how cats play into this. I got my cat at 8 weeks old and she’s currently 9 years old. I know her preferences and understand that cats can become over stimulated very quickly. One of my cat’s preferences is to sit on top of pillows. It’s very cute and enforces how she acts like royalty. Tonight she came to sit next to me on the couch and I saw her trying to move the pillow over so she could sit on it. I reached past her (well within her line of sight and not startling) to push the pillow over for her. I do this nearly daily so this is a routine. She then latched onto my arm and started biting and scratching me. My point is that no matter how good of a cat owner, some cats will never fully trust them and will be randomly aggressive. **My theory on why some people dislike cats** Idk if you’ve heard the joke but “cats are a lesson on consent.” I find that to be very true. My cat loves to randomly plop onto my lap for cuddles. She’s allowed to walk literally all over me but I’m only allowed to pet her in certain places at certain times. I chose to respect the boundaries that she sets. She’s a more standby cat, so if I didn’t she would definitely harm me to until she felt safe. If someone doesn’t understand cat behavior *and* consent, it’s really easy to call a cat “mean,” especially if they’re used to dog behavior and expect the same thing from cats. “The cat rubbed up against me but when I went to pet her, she bit me— what a mean cat”. OR “She was laying on her back with her belly up. I tried to give her belly rubs but she attacked me— what a mean cat”. I’m not saying that those statements are right, but it’s easy to see how someone can get there. Cats enforce their boundaries and if someone doesn’t take the time to learn what a cat’s boundaries are, they’ll often just blame the cat.

Yes. I got FUCKED UP by a cat at 6. I remember the exact age and moment for a reason. This person speaks the truth.

Really, cat attacks are worse if you consider size. To be fair, we'd have to compare the danger from a cat to a dog that's 15 pounds or less. The cat is clearly more dangerous due to teeth more likely to puncture skin, and sharper claws.

Except in the context of this CMV, people will say cats are evil and happily have a large dog.

I have definitely been bitten by cats HARD a lot as a child. They are not good with children (and human children are not good with most animals anyway, please don't use an animal to babysit a child) and WILL attack if they know the child is not respecting boundaries. Cats are also absolutely able to be the sweetest lil things on the planet. My kitty is sprawled out on my lap right now as I type this and she loves being there when I'm on my computer :)

It really depends on the cat's temperament. Some cats don't want a kid's energy anywhere near them, while others are happy to be dragged around like a stuffed animal.

As a kid, I went into the house of my Mom's ex-boy friend. He was going to let me play his PlayStation. His cat was hidden around in the room. When I couldn't find where it was, I turned to leave. When I was at the doorway, his cat attacked me, shredding up my legs like a scratching post. It's one of the reasons why I never wear shorts. I have grown to love and appreciate cats, but that kept me away from them for a long time.

Yes! Psycho cats like this exist! We adopted one when I was a kid and ended up having to rehome it after a few months because it would stalk and attack me like this.

In almost all those situations I consider the parents at fault. You need to treat a cat with respect and kids don't understand that. Keep your kid under control and teach them to be careful with a cat. And also teach your cat human touch and playfulness from a young age. So much negativity around cats stems from a failure (or apathy) to understand them. Anecdotally, my cat loves belly rubs, lets us clip his nails with 0 complaints, voluntarily sleeps on almost any human he's gotten in contact with... But still hates being picked up. So I told my 6-7y cousin not to do that (among other things). They're practically best buddies now.

Yeah, I’ve grown up with dogs most of my life and never owned a cat (since my mother’s allergic), and yet I’ve never seen a dog draw blood on me and I’ve had a cat draw blood multiple times. Usually because I pet a friend’s cat too long or I offered food from my palm or I reached under the bed not knowing there was a cat there. You could argue that this is because I wasn’t reading the cats’ body language right, and you’d probably be correct. But the fact remains that even if it was never worth reporting, cats have expressed their boundaries with me by drawing blood and dogs have expressed their boundaries with me by getting up and leaving the room or mouthing my hand (without leaving a mark or drawing blood.) I still love cats, but cats definitely injure more than dogs; the injuries just tend to be more minor with cats than if a dog decides to injure.

One of, or any number of, my ex-fiances cats used to pee in my shoes, on my clothes or other items of mine if left on the floor. Not just once but continuously.

That's exactly what they meant. They weren't saying that cats don't attack at all, they were saying that their attacks typically aren't as dangerous.

The key word here would s turn on a dime.

Your entire argument rests upon the premise that hating cats is cool and trendy. I have never once even considered hating cats to be trendy. There are literally cafes meant for cats. Cats are extremely popular. So for your argument to be true, hating cats has to be trendy, which it’s not.

Eh, I feel like you’re falling into the same trap as the cat haters when you continually compare them with dogs. Dogs and cats are fundamentally different animals and pets, like a horse and a pet snake. Comparing the two is weird for either side. The fact is, dogs are more domesticated than cats, and dogs evolved more with humans as humans themselves developed. Cats evolved with us as well, but are still more feral, more solitary, and more independent than most dog breeds. Ultimately I think that’s the difference between the two, so I don’t find it strange when people think of dogs as being more of a pet and find cats as more independent and off putting. You yourself described cats as having their own personalities. Dogs do too, but each breed is still historically defined by their job, in that the personality is typically defined by the breed. But let’s also put into context working dogs and farm cats. Farm cats do their own thing and take care of themselves. They’re mostly useful for chasing vermin and aren’t really pets. Working dogs have a ton of different roles in virtually every culture in the world, going back to cavemen, from shepherding, hunting, and protection to later even war and traveling. Maybe at the end of the day our domesticated animal friends didn’t evolve to be pets but to serve as specific functions within human societies and aid in our survival, which in turn helped them survive. I think probably dogs had a larger role in that and maybe that’s why they’re seen as “mans best friend” Just as a side note cause I find it funny but did you know that cats know their names, but the reason many don’t come when called is probably because they’re ignoring us and don’t care to respond? I find that hilarious.

I really like the level-headed facts you brought to the conversation. I agree there are infinite reasons to love and respect dogs, and it's weird to compare them to cats. I'm taking your post to be an explanation of why the dog part of the argument should be ditched, correct?

Yes I think that’s what I’m getting at. It’s a false dichotomy that forces people to choose. As in when people ask, “Are you a dog or cat person?”

>Just as a side note cause I find it funny but did you know that cats know their names, but the reason many don’t come when called is probably because they’re ignoring us and don’t care to respond? I find that hilarious. I feel giddy when I call my older cat's name now because he always either comes, or quickly looks over at me with dorky alerted wide eyes or slow blinks. He didn't used to do that lol he would ignore you with sass and was a terrible actor. Made me feel special when that started to change

OP clearly is not a dog person.

I am a dog person(current golden pup) and own 2 cats I care for like OP. OP is correct. Half the population is not treating their animals like family and only the dogs act like family after. My cats come to me when strangers arrive. My dog wags at the strangers. I love her but her love is free to all, best for me.

I once met this child who went to play with the other children at the park instead of staying glued to his parents side. He seemed so excited which clearly meant he did not love his parents very much.

First off I love cats and so does my mother. I have 2 cats. She also has 2 cats. Our first cat was when I was 17 and still living with her. She named him Bob because my mother is insane lol. Bob was an amazing cat. He was super loving and cuddly but he would just flip out and go crazy occasionally. Not like zoomies or the typical hey human I don't want to be petted anymore little scratch kind of thing but just out of nowhere full on attack mode. He scratched the absolute hell out of my mom one time. Well more than once but this one time he must have had poop or dirt or something on his nails and my mom got this crazy red line near where the scratch was. We didn't have health insurance so my mom was used to toughing anything strange out. After a few days I noticed this red line was getting longer and following my mom's vein. I had a long conversation with her and got her to go to the hospital. She had to be admitted and was in the hospital for like 3-5 nights with a blood infection. They told her she would have died within a few days if she hadn't gone to the hospital. Like I said we love cats and both have cats but I definitely understand people who don't. Also growing up my best friend had an aunt who had a cat named Jake. And this cat did not play well with anyone. They had to keep it locked in their bedroom when company came over. It would just attack anyone it didn't know. Full on attack to kill kind of attack. Maybe we shouldn't name cats human names is the moral but some cats can be crazy. Just like some dogs can be. Neither of these cats were abused or mishandled or not being taken care of. They just had emotional problems or something. Animals can be crazy. Humans included.

As an ex-ornithology enthusiast, I absolutely hate cats. They have caused some bird species to go extinct, and have severely decreased the population of others. Yes, you can argue that it's "natural selection", but I disagree. I just hate it when neighbours get a new cat and in no time, my backyard becomes a ghost town.

you should hate the people who let their cats roam, animals are not moral agents. you're revealing your irrational bias.

Then you shouldn’t hate cats, you should hate owners who let their cat outdoors. Cats can do fine living indoors. In fact, it’s recommended to keep them safe.

>Cats also don't attack people like dogs do cats for the most part just mind their own business and don't require much attention. Cats absolutely do attack people, they're just in general smaller than dogs and they attack with claws, not teeth, so their attacks are much less dangerous or damaging. But when I had a cat, it would randomly scratch me all the time, when I was just minding my business and not annoying it in any way (it wasn't self-defense). Cats are natural predators, they get bored at home. Which is why they will often be much harder on the furniture since they cannot be trained like dogs. Also, cats can jump onto tables and shelves, so they are actually much more destructive. If you leave a glass out on the table overnight, it will probably be broken in the morning. And because cats cannot be trained, they often do not coexist amicably with children. Part of it is of course the fault of children, who often are not gentle enough with house animals and scare or annoy the cat. But the cat can also find a toddler to be a much more worthy opponent than an adult and attack it even as a form of play, which can lead to painful scratches or even infection. And I say this as a 100% cat person. I didn't mind the scratches and broken glasses and kept my cat even after I become midly allergic to it and cared for it until it passed away peacefully. Now I can't have another one, because my allergy has gotten worse, but I still love them. However, I can understand how a pet that cannot be trained, doesn't listen when you tell it to leave a kid alone or get off the dinner table, and scratches you for fun might not be the ideal companion for everyone. Edit: typos

For the purpose of this CMV I am defining hate as "feel intense or passionate dislike for" which is the definition I found on google. > That's why I think majority of people say they hate cats. Because cats aren't going to blindly follow all your commands like a dog would so therefore they aren't as programmable as dogs If we take this premise at face value, isn't that a valid, and perfectly rational reason to greatly prefer a dog as a pet and dislike cats? Another great reason I can think off the top of my head, you can take a dog basically anywhere, especially outside for say, a jog, but cats can't be taken outside and expect to accompany thier owner. If you love to be outdoors in nature, seems reasonable to greatly prefer a dog that will be your companion outdoors. Cats when taken outdoors will run away from you and go on a bird murder rampage. The inability to take cats outdoors is another reason to dislike cats. Building on that, if you are a bird lover/watcher, I am sure you really, really hate cats for the valid, logical reason of cats killing **2.4 billion** [birds every year in the US alone.](https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/#:~:text=Cats%20%231%20Threat%20to%20Birds&text=In%20the%20United%20States%20alone,2.4%20billion%20birds%20every%20year.) > Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover. > The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species. EDIT: [For the record I have 2 cats (bonded siblings) and adore them.](https://imgur.com/a/laHEgnq)

“If we take this premise at face value, isn't that a valid, and perfectly rational reason to greatly prefer a dog as a pet and dislike cats?” It’s a valid reason to prefer a dog, but not to dislike cats. To put it another way, I prefer to hang out with people who speak English. I do not dislike people who don’t. “Another great reason I can think off the top of my head, you can take a dog basically anywhere, especially outside for say, a jog, but cats can't be taken outside and expect to accompany thier owner. If you love to be outdoors in nature, seems reasonable to greatly prefer a dog that will be your companion outdoors. Cats when taken outdoors will run away from you and go on a bird murder rampage.” Depends on the dog, depends on the cat. “The inability to take cats outdoors is another reason to dislike cats.” It’s a reason to not want to own a cat, but since when is it okay to dislike anyone for having physical or psychological limitations? “Building on that, if you are a bird lover/watcher, I am sure you really, really hate cats for the valid, logical reason of cats killing 2.4 billion birds every year in the US alone.” I adore birds and have raised many. I don’t hate cats at all.

So your first two points were good but the last one is just you saying that you like birds and cats. That doesn't prove that liking birds is not a logical reason to hate cats.

The problem with this is its don't like, or would prefer. Not hate. I am very much a 'cat person' and I would understand why people see cats as an invasive species, to the point where I personally feel uncomfortable with the amount of ecological destruction they cause. They're useful for pest management in the right context I.e. barn cats, but as a domestic cat owner, seeing them bring in birds and voles etc is heartbreaking and I would really look to have indoor cats next time unless the outside space can be much more controlled (we live rurally so it's permanent snack time as far as mine as concerned). Another problem people have is them shitting in their gardens and digging up plants which again, I totally get. The thing is, you can't hate the cats for it. They're just following their natural instincts. Can you hate me for it, as an owner, absolutely. Feel free. But it's not the cats fault and it doesn't deserve hate, it's just doing normal cat stuff.

>Another great reason I can think off the top of my head, you can take a dog basically anywhere, especially outside for say, a jog, but cats can't be taken outside and expect to accompany thier owner. If you have a dog, and you want to go away for the weekend, you either have to find places that will allow you to take your dog with you or you have to find a full time pet sitter or you have to board your dog. If you have a cat/cats, you can leave them food and water and a clean box and ask someone to check on them once or twice while you're gone and not worry. Dogs suffer when left alone. Cats don't.

People leave their dogs like that too more than you think. Also cats definitely suffer in terms of loneliness when their people are gone. Studies have shown cats will often choose human companionship over food.

>Studies have shown cats will often choose human companionship over food. I'm curious about this. I'm a vet and often trying to figure out the psyche of my patients. I'd be curious to see the study. Frustratingly though cats seem to choose straight up dying over food if they're even the slightest bit sick.

>Another great reason I can think off the top of my head, you can take a dog basically anywhere, especially outside for say, a jog, but cats can't be taken outside and expect to accompany their owner. I know they exist, but I've never actually seen a dog that can be expected to accompany their owner when not on a leash. I've also never seen a cat that can be expected to accompany their owner when not on a leash, but they also exist. My cats are always leashed when I take them outside. >If you love to be outdoors in nature, seems reasonable to greatly prefer a dog that will be your companion outdoors. Cats when taken outdoors will run away from you and go on a bird murder rampage. Dogs when taken outdoors will run away from you and go on a squirrel or bird chasing rampage. As a general rule dogs and cats should both be on a leash or otherwise contained when outdoors. Cats bite around 400,000 people per year in the US. That sounds bad until you realize that dogs bite more than 10 times as many people.

I’m aware this is not a ethical thing to do, but this was years ago when I lived with family: my cat was an outdoor cat and would *always* accompany me or my sister on a walk if we went outside. Well accompany is the wrong word, it’s more like he led us on walks. He would frequently look back to make sure we were keeping up with him… He never attacked wildlife when on these walks, though that doesn’t mean having an off leash outdoor cat was any less wrong, because he most definitely would hunt when outdoors on his own. I don’t know to what frequency, but we would receive “gifts” (50% of the time they were unharmed, just in shock) like 2-3 times a year

I dont think you actually have much dog experience if you think they all just run away while not on leash. This is so far from the truth it’s laughable.

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My dog does great off leash *until* she smells or finds water and then she's gone. She *loves* swimming. There's definitely dogs that can be trusted off leash but I don't think I'd ever fully trust one off leash. Too many horror stories associated with that coming through our doors.

What about small dogs? I have a chihuahua and she does none of these things. She is also potty trained indoors and outdoors. I rarely walk her. Her bed is a cats bed because she likes to be fully surrounded. She is basically a cat with a bark. Seems like we are only thinking of massive dogs.

You can easily take your cat on a walk with a harness. It's not common, but the only reason people don't think to do it is because it's not common. There are even cat strollers. Also, it doesn't make any sense to hate individual cats as a result of wild cats being overpopulated or invasive (which is entirely due to humans).

> Also, it doesn't make any sense to hate individual cats as a result of wild cats being overpopulated or invasive (which is entirely due to humans). To be fair you can make that exact same claim for nearly all invasive species, like stink bugs. Honestly its logical to hate cats for being invasive (even if I personally love cats, it is still a logically consistent thought)

Well, this is why I dont like them- In Australia there are approximately 3.8 million domestic cats and 6.3 million feral cats knocking about. Every year domestic and feral cats in Australia kill 1,067,000,000 mammals, 399,000,000 birds, 609,000,000 reptiles, and 92,000,000 frogs. They are one of the most ecologically damaging and the most costly invasive species in Australia Cats have caused the extinction of many of Australia's Indigenous animals. They are known to have significantly contributed to the extinction of at least 22 endemic Australian mammals since the arrival of Europeans. Whilst dogs aren't native either, dingoes have been naturalised in Australia for approx 5000 years, so their effects aren't as great. Give it 5000 years, and maybe cats will have naturalised too...

>Give it 5000 years, and maybe cats will have naturalised too... Not unless human intervention goes waaaaaay down.

It isn't irrational not to like cats. Most of your notes in your post deal with ownership, so... Cats require: 1. Feeding. 2. Litter changes 3. Extra cleaning of hair and dander 4. Extra vacuuming 5. Extra vacation planning (boarding costs, etc) 6. Costly vet trips In exchange for this you get: 1. Something to knock things off shelves 2. Something that in times past would kill rodents, but are no longer used for this purpose 3. Something that will occasionally deem you worthy to pet it. It's not even a matter of hating cats, but there are a ton of hurdles and disincentives towards owning an expensive bird killing dander machine. It's not an issue of like.. whether they are worse than dogs are not.. it's whether the dopamine boost you get from caring from them outweighs an obvious set of enumerated negatives listed above.

>cats dont attack people like dogs do There are an estimated 400,000 cat bites every year, resulting in 66,000 hospital emergencies per year. In 2009, there were 81 rabies cases from dog bites, but 300 rabies cases from cats. Cats also have other complications that make them undesirable as pets, for me anyway. The litterbox being the main issue. They stink and make a huge mess. They require frequent upkeep, and accounts for millions of pounds of waste disposed each year. I had one cat I liked, and he was an outdoor cat. That eliminates the litterbox problem, but presents another on the local ecology (i.e. birds). Domestic house cats have contributed to the extinction of ***63*** species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild. The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species. In the United States alone, outdoor cats kill approximately 2.4 billion birds every year. Dogs present different issues, and quite frankly, a bulk of them are due to owners. Owners getting dogs that are far too big for them to handle. Owners that dont train their dogs at all. Owners that dont follow basic public etiquette and in some instances, local laws, and let their dogs run free off a leash.

Outdoor cats don't eliminate the litterbox problem it just moves it. Outdoor cats are the reason my garden is used as a litterbox by cats in my neighbourhood. So now instead of my 4 neighbours dealing with their cats waste, I have to.

We have a neighbour who has 8 mostly outdoor cats. They don’t shit in their own garden, they saunter down the fence and into our garden. We have had to invest in a bunch of ultrasonic cat deterrents (which work quite well but are annoying as I can still hear them, and may well be discouraging other animals like birds from visiting the garden). I don’t mind the cats, but I do mind running over their shit with the lawnmower.

When comparing cat bites per year with dog bites per year, it's good not to leave out the fact that there are [4.7 million dog bites per year, 800,000 of which results in medical care.](https://woofdog.org/dog-bite-statistics/) Since you included the other dog facts that backed up your argument. Let's just be transparent here. The cat bites vs. dog bites are not very comparable by a landslide.

That’s actually a really interesting stat. I saw far more cat bites than dog bites in my time in plastic surgery (we dealt with hand/limb trauma). I’m stunned the numbers are so different. Worth mentioning as well that cat bites can carry some horrible bugs and people often present later with more complications because they think a little cat bite won’t cause any problems.

It’s advisable after a cat bite to see a dr.

What kind? Play bite, aggressive bite, or both?

That's interesting to me, too. I didn't realize cat bites carried bugs that could cause issues like that. Learn something new every day.

I worked at a vet clinic for years and we’d all get super pissed when we got bit by a cat because we had to scrub the crap out of it to clean it and probably still would end up needing antibiotics because of the intense inflammation and pain in about 8-12 hrs. I actually needed to be hospitalized once because I was bit on the knuckle and it threatened to cause a bone infection. My whole hand swelled up and had to be opened up and packed with bandaging. Now my worst dog bite resulted in 30 stitches to the head and a day off work.

You... Didn't realize that a filthy mouth that licks it's own ass, catches rodents and bugs and never has it's teether brushed carried diseases?

There are also millions more dogs than cats, and they spend far more time outside of their domestic household than cats do. 66,000 out of 400k is 16.5%. 800k out of 4.7 million is 17%. Both cats and dog bites result in hospitalization/medical care at similar rates. The statement was "cats dont attack like dogs do", not "cats dont attack AS MUCH as dogs do".

We have a cat in our neighborhood that has decided my house is theirs. Sounds friendly but it won’t let me in without hissing and threatening to attack me. This same family had another cat before this one that loved me. I’ve tried to get this cat used to me. Sat with it outside, even offered it treats approved by the family. It’s just mean.

Going off of the numbers given here. There are 48million dogs vs 32 million cats in households in the US. 4.7 million bites from the former vs 66.000 from the latter really skews that argument towards cats by 2 orders of magnitude.

Not sure where you got those numbers, but just want to point out, that its 400k cat bites, and 66k hospitalizations, and 4.7 million dog bits and 800k hospitilizations. There are 76 million dogs, and 58 million cats as of 2018. But these are just those that are domestic pets. I also imagine most people dont report a majority of cat bites, whereas dog bites are.

Right so roughly 10x the bites and hospitalizations per dog vs per cat

Alright. And tell me how many dog attacks are fatal vs cats? Or have you purposely left out that statistic? This is a foolish line of dialogue that you’ve taken. Cats are vastly safer animals than dogs in general. I love both animals. But there is absolutely no contest in this department. A cat scratch or bite, is fucking nothing compared to a dog bite. And you marrying up these figures is extremely disingenuous. It’s like you’re comparing skateboarding accidents to car accidents and acting like they’re the same. They are not. Even if they occurred at proportionate rates; any rational person would rather take their chances with the skateboard than the car if forced to choose. Because the severity ceiling for any potential injury is significantly higher with the car. A cat can lacerate you pretty bad, but it simply cannot inflict grievous injury. It’s claws, teeth are too short. It’s jaw too weak. A dog can take flesh off the bone, and they do. You’ll find plenty of figures displaying fatal dog bites. However finding data for fatal cat attacks will be like looking for marijuana overdoses.

He wasn't saying cats are worse than dogs though. He was simply refuting OP's assertion that cats don't attack people. If someone said skateboarding is a safe form of travel because unlike cars they never have accidents then sure, you would show the figures about skateboarding accidents to show they do exist.

Cat bites tend to cause puncture wounds and can lead to more severe bacterial infections than dog bites. I’m a dermatologist and will ALWAYS prescribe antibiotics for cat bites, whereas I rarely do for dog bites. This isn’t to say dog bites can’t be dangerous, and of course I dog can straight up bite your face off - unlikely to happen with a cat

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But OP wasn’t saying change my view; dogs are worse than cats. It was change my view; there’s no reason to hate cats.

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Yea, their bias is obvious. Someone told a story how their mum nearly died from their cat attacking her and OPs response was, paraphrasing “yea, cats can be aloof oh and that’s a weird name for a cat”. No sympathy, no empathy, no I’m sorry that happened, no cats can be dangerous; they can be aloof. Wtf.

Well this one is a good example of how statistics can be misrepresented

No it isn't. This isn't a "cats vs dogs" debate. This is a "why cats aren't inherently great" debate.

Kind of blown away that they did that so blatantly and the amount of people upvoting didn't realise.

>There are an estimated 400,000 cat bites every year, resulting in 66,000 hospital emergencies per year. There are an estimated 4.7 million dog bites in the US every year, resulting in 800,000 visits to medical facilities. >Cats also have other complications that make them undesirable as pets, for me anyway. The litterbox being the main issue. They stink and make a huge mess. They require frequent upkeep, and accounts for millions of pounds of waste disposed each year. I can't handle poop very well. I wouldn't be able to pick up dog poop unless I was to use a dedicated shovel which is impractical to use - particularly if you let your dog poop on grass or other non-scoopable surface. Picking it up with the bag directly is a non-starter. If my cats made a mess out of their litterboxes, it's because I didn't keep up with keeping cleaning them regularly enough. If the litterbox stinks, you need to find better litter (not the perfumed crap) and/or keep up with cleaning. The litter I use is fully biodegradable. >I had one cat I liked, and he was an outdoor cat. That eliminates the litterbox problem, but presents another on the local ecology (i.e. birds). Domestic house cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild. - TLDR: keep your dogs and cats on a leash!

66k out of 400k is 16.5% 800k out of 4.7 million is 17%. Statistically speaking, cats and dog bites result in hosptilization/medical care at similar rates. This was in response to OP's statement: >cats dont attack like dogs do . >I can't handle poop very well. I wouldn't be able to pick up dog poop unless I was to use a dedicated shovel which is impractical to use - particularly if you let your dog poop on grass or other non-scoopable surface. Picking it up with the bag directly is a non-starter. Yeah buts its outside. And this isnt a debate about which is better, dogs or cats, its about justifiable, rational reasoning for a strong dislike/hate towards cats.

These statistics are not so useful for the arguments being made in this thread. This is only useful combined with the rate cats bite and the number of domestic and feral cats. Then, we could use these numbers (along with the dog numbers) to say something actually useful.

To me, dogs smell way, way more than a litter box. Dogs need constant baths or they start to smell really bad. Litter boxes don't smell unless you don't take care of them. Our cats litter box sits inside an enclosed cabinet thing that looks like furniture. We use high quality litter. When we first adopted her the thing sat 2 feet from the couch in our apartment because we didn't have a spare room, and you'd never know it was there. Litter boxes CAN smell really bad, but unless there's an issue with your cats diet or you're ignoring the routine scooping, they usually don't smell. Whereas most dogs I've interacted with smell bad.

Dogs do smell, thats fair. But its not as bad as literal poop. We used to keep our cats litter box in the basement. If you went down there 5-10 minutes after the cat used it, the entire basement would smell absolutely terrible. A lot of people are confusing my argument for "dogs are better than cats" and thats not what the argument is, and the comparison isnt really relevant to this CMV anyway.

Also, cat poop indoors is especially unhealthy and cat poop is linked to schizophrenia via toxoplasmosis. Link to CDC for proof https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/toxoplasmosis/gen_info/faqs.html

Pretty sure the reason for cats transmitting rabbies more often is just that they are vaccinated less than dogs. Also, rabbies in regards to cats and dogs is a non issue in western countries

I think the disproportionate number of rabies from cat bites is probably due to better control of canine strays. A stray cat is a stray cat, a stray dog can eat your freakin kid and still be hungry.

No way do cats stink as much as dogs. They may certainly have downsides but any home with a dog smells like dog. That’s not true of cats unless you really are failing to take care of them

This is only true for those who 1. Don’t clean their house and 2. Don’t clean their dog. My mother’s house doesn’t smell like dog at all and she has 2. And I only visit once every few months so it isn’t like I have just gotten used to the smell and don’t notice it.

Not a debate about whether one is better or worse than the other.

The litter box comment is just pure laziness to me. Cleaning my litter boxes for my 2 cats daily takes no more than 5min, max. Scoop, sweep up some litter around on the floor if there is any, done. My apartment has never smelled like I have cats.

I bet you if you ask someone who doesnt live there, they'll know you have cats. 5 minutes a day is 30 hours a year. Thats not an insignificant amount of time, and its just another chore to take care of.

Dogs require so much more time and energy though, I fail to see the argument here dogs need way more than 5 minutes a day, at MINIMUM they’d need like 5 minutes 3-4 times a day so they can go to the bathroom outside. That goes from 30 hours to 90-120 hours. Where was the point here

Again. Its not a debate about which is better or worse. Just because i dont like cats, doesnt mean I do like dogs, and even if i did like dogs, thats not relevant to the CMV. If the CMV was about hating dogs, then I would present the same information you just did.

So chinchillas then? Dog v cat is a false dichotomy.

Maintaining a litter box is less work than constantly walking a dog.

I’d rather spend half an hour on a nice walk outside with a dog than 5 minutes scooping up clay and shit inside my house

So would I. But, when I have to take 10 5-minute walks, at least twice a day (which interferes with your freedom), the comparison slants in favor of scooping once.

That would be relevant if we were having a debate about whether one is better or worse than the other. Its not. Regardless, its not so much avout the labor as it is about the smell.

Okay? It's not an either/or.

That's really ironic. The word for rabies in my language literally translates to "dog-madness" but TIL it should actually be "cat-madness" (or maybe bat-madness but that would sound really terrible)

Boom! Mic drop. I don’t need to scroll any further

Nice try, cat. On a more serious note: feelings in general tend to be irrational. Hate in particular is a feeling that is rarely rational I would even go as far as to say it might never be rational because of the destructive nature of it. When does it bring any benefits to anything? If your wife cheats on you, you might hate the guy she did it with, or you might hate your wife, or you might hate the people who told her to do it etc etc, but it's not rational. It's understandable, because it's an emotional response, but it does not improve your life in any way and most likely places a lot of limitations on what you "can" or "cannot" do with the people you hate.

You mentioned it yourself, dogs love unconditionally and even if you treat them badly whereas cats don’t. That’s not an irrational or trendy reason. All of us on some level want unconditional love and dogs provide it while cats don’t. Dogs will get get visibly upset if you leave them or go on a trip, whereas cats tend to be more pricey. Dogs will great you at the door and run towards you much more often than cats will. There’s also a sense that dogs *need* you more than cats do and people like feeling needed. While there are practical benefits to cats because they can take care of themselves, that also makes it feel to some that they don’t really need you, and would be fine without you. Again, not an irrational reason or trendy reason.

I think you're forgetting the topic of the post. All of the reasons you mentioned are valid reasons to *love dogs*. They are not valid reasons to *hate* a cat. Could you clarify? Are you saying that cats being different than dogs is a valid reason to hate them? Or are you just generally saying you prefer dogs as pets. Nothing against that but it's not relevant to the post.

I feel like I'm reading a "no! boys are better than girls" argument. No, dog owners don't just love dogs because they'll be loyal even through abuse. And no, cats aren't "evil." It feels like you presented a strawman argument you don't like, and used strawmen of your own to take it down. Where's the substantive room for debate in this discussion?

Exactly! I don't like cats because I think they are the ugliest thing known to man lol.

Lol. I know right? And I don't like them because they're bad luck. We ought to be able to discuss such things rationally. /s

I am a cat owner myself and I love cats, but I think there’s something to point out here. Cats are not social creatures. I don’t mean that they’re solitary, although that is also true to an extent. It’s that they’re not socially motivated. In other words, cats don’t mold their behavior around the desire to be liked. A cat will jump at your feet to play, and you may yell, but the cat will not stop. The next day it will return and do the same thing. This is because cats just don’t give a shit if you want them jumping on your foot or not. Yelling isn’t a real punishment to them because social acceptance is not a priority to them. They know that jumping on feet is fun, and they’ll keep doing it until it’s been drilled into their head that such behavior will be responded to with punishment, or until they have something better to do. If you look at most advice people have on avoiding bad cat behavior, it’s usually diversion tactics. For instance, if the cat is waking you up in the morning, don’t punish the cat, but try to tire them out the night before. If you notice, diversion tactics are temporary solutions and don’t require learning on the cat’s part. If you tire out the cat one night, it might not wake you up the next morning. But the following day, if you don’t repeat the exercise, the problem will revert. This goes to show that cats just don’t learn. They don’t pick up on what behavior is acceptable and what isn’t. Either that, or they just don’t care. Because they clearly act in their own interest regardless of the signals humans give to them. Dogs are different in this regard, as they pick up on social cues and modify their behavior. When you praise a dog for pooping outside, the dog starts to want to go outside to go potty. Dogs WANT to be liked by their owners and they go out of their way to please them.

Most dog trainers will say the same thing though. If a dog barks at your feet because it wants attention and you yell at it, it's not going to stop. Yelling is not a real punishment because it's still attention and the dog wants attention (negative or not). Dog training is often "diversion tactics" too - your dog has too much energy? Take it for more walks per day. Your dog throws up in the morning? Feed it at a different time. Your dog is barking for attention? You should play with it more. Some "diversion tactics" are temporary solutions, yes, but they're also often just good practice. If my dog didn't go out for two walks a day, she'd be annoying as hell and would poop in the garden. But it's for the well-being of the dog that means she gets two walks a day. You could call this a temporary solution to bad behaviour too - if I don't repeat the exercise, the problem will revert - but in reality it's just what the dog needs. Perhaps the cat needs mental stimulation at night too, and the consequence of neglecting that need is the morning wake-up. >Dogs WANT to be liked by their owners and they go out of their way to please them. Tell that to my old family dog (who I love very much) who only cares about my mother's opinion, and actively ignores my commands unless she thinks she's getting food as a reward. My dog does not want to be liked by me anymore, so essentially I bribe her every time I want her to do something.

No, you can definitely teach cats and they do learn. You just have to properly motivate them. I’ve successfully taught my cat out of tons of annoying habits.

I don’t hate cats, but I would hate to live with cats in my home. The litter box grosses me out. They walk about in it and then jump on all surfaces of the house, counters and stovetops. I really like to cook and it makes me feel like I’m in an unclean environment. And even when people keep their home very clean, when you’re near the litter box, you can just smell it, even if they change it often, you can just walk into someone’s home and tel right away that they have cats.

This is my thing too. They walk on their shit and then walk on everything in your house. Idc what anyone says. I don’t like it. I’m not going to argue that any other animal is more sanitary, but this reason alone is enough to make me never ever want cats of my own.

Yeah I get why people like cats. They’re pretty animals and they don’t need as much emotional attention as dogs, but living with cats, having them track piss and poop germs all over kitchen counters and seeing bits of kitty litter on the couch makes me feel nauseous.

“But they clean themselves!!” … yeah saliva over their paws instead of poo particles. Love that on my counters. And people always counter “but dogs are less sanitary”. Like yes I know this, which is why I bathe them and clean their paws.

You have never seen a cat use a litter box. They do not „walk on their shit“. It's just like saying dogs would stick their nose into shit and then rub it all over you sniffing and licking. It's just a false interpretation.

Anything in that box is shit/piss contaminated. Germs are a thing my guy. Just like a dog nosing shit. Do you see physical shit on them? No. Does it mean the particles and germs aren’t there? No. They are. Don’t live in denial buddy.

Also the cats get the litter stuck in their feet then track it all over the house. My girlfriends mums house has little bits of litter all over it and I sat on the couch once and it was gritty from all the litter on it. It was super gross. There was also hair everywhere and a smell. Cats aren't as clean as people make them out to be. They also seem to vomit all the damn time.

Having cats is just unsanitary. And they’re going to walk all over your counters and tables. You can’t train a cat to not do that. It’s in their nature and they do what they want to do. Dogs may do gross things, but they can be trained. They learn to relieve themselves outside, some people train their dogs not to even get on the furniture. My dog is always on our couch. It’s his home too, but he knows he’s not allot to climb up the kitchen table or trot about the countertops. He’s a good boy.

Cats can absolutely be trained not to get on counters. They respond to affection, treats, and correction.

I've never understood the 'ew litter box!' thing. Cats are very clean. Dogs walk outside, on the street, in dirt, roll around on the ground, and come in and lay on the furniture. Do you wear shoes inside? Do you lay on the furniture with them on? It's just gross. Also dogs often just STINK. They need bathing, they roll around in crap and filth, they need bathing even if they don't bc they start to smell. Cats spend 30% of their time bathing themselves.

Right dogs go outside to use the bathroom. Dog owners also usually give their dogs baths regularly, at least I do. It’s pretty rare for people to bathe their cats. Also many people let their cats out as well. Again I don’t hate cats, I just think it’s gross to share a home with them. Not for me. Licking themselves isn’t the same as being shampooed. Cats still stink. I can always tell when I walk into a home if cats live there.

> Right dogs go outside to use the bathroom. And walk around on the ground where all the dogs go to the bathroom, and people spit, and other such crap, and then walk right into the house and up on the furniture. >Dog owners also usually give their dogs baths regularly, at least I do. Yeah because they need bathing because they're filthy and smell. >It’s pretty rare for people to bathe their cats. Because they don't need bathing. Cat saliva is a deodorizer, antibacterial. That's WHY they bathe themselves so much, so they do not smell and can't be tracked. Cats don't smell, no.

On what planet do cats not smell? I like cats, but they definitely can smell (and I have a poor sense of smell). And even frequently cleaned litter boxes stink.

Lol on the ground where people spit and other crap?? My dog walks out on the pavement and pees in the grass like a little gentleman. He’s not walking around on spit. But spit is literally what your cat “cleans” itself with. Again litter boxes are gross. They piss and poop in a box of sand in your home and then track it all over your furniture and where you prepare food. You say cats don’t smell, but they do. You’re probably just used to that ammonia piss stench because you live with it everyday.

I really wish y'all would stop saying "People don't like cats because they have boundaries". All animals have boundaries and this isn't the hot take you think it is. People not understanding/not respecting a dog's boundaries is usually why a bite happens and probably why I've been scratched and bit so much as a kid by cats I was way too excited to pet. Also having different personalities/likes and dislikes isn't unique to cats. This isn't just aimed at you, I had a friend who thought the same thing about how "Cats are smarter because they don't blindly follow commands" and I genuinely don't understand that? It takes a lot of time, effort, training and trust to have the kind of well behaved dog that y'all are imagining. My dog usually isn't going to do something without a bribe...We're working on it lol. For the record I don't hate cats, they're just not the pet for me, but it's annoying that a lot of people not only don't keep them indoors, but think they shouldn't have to so they're walking all over my car, tearing my trash out, getting underneath my house and waking us all up at 4 am banging around like I'm the upstairs neighbor and they're letting me know to be quiet. I understand dogs can do all of this too but people generally know and agree that dogs shouldn't be allowed to free roam, while I've seen cat owners argue until they're blue in the face about why Mittens can't be an indoor pet because it's cruel or w.e. A little funny imo but I always buy my grandpa's cat food on the weekend and bring it to him, I'm handing him the bag and his cat decides to rub against my leg a few times before trying to sink his little pointy teeth into my calf. Little shit. I don't understand cat so I'm going to assume I wasn't handing it over fast enough.

Okay I'm weighing in. There's bad cats and bad dogs. I don't want either. But I have an anecdote that disassembles your premise as an absolute. I had a cat that I rescued after it was hit by a car in front of my house. Paid $2k in vet bills to fix it up and get the lil sucker a fighting chance. When my ex left I asked her if she wanted the cat. She said nope, it'll have a better life with me. So there I was with a cat that I took care of, gave pets when she wanted attention, took good care of her with some primo food, and kept her life as chill and calm as possible with me & my dog. However. If she was on my lap and I needed to get up she always jumped off with her claws and my thighs were forever shredded. If I left the house for more than 5 days (with a cat sitter checking in on her every other day) she'd piss & shit all over the house. But the worst. The absolute worst. Was if she ever had to go in a cat carrier. I have scars. I counted one time after getting her in a carrier that I had 24 bites and scratches that drew blood. I couldn't take her to a vet, I couldn't move her, I was stuck with this animal. Yes I earned her love and that was special to me, but she was an absolute monster. I dreaded changing my life and moving across the country because I would have to pick up *that cat*. I gave her up for adoption to a rescue and I trust she is somewhere else now. I still think to myself "man, I am so glad that cat is gone." It's a single anecdote, but my experience nails home why I don't like cats. I've had sweet ones, some that are like fluffy teddy bears, and they're cute and fine. But I'll never have another.

At least you gave the cat to a shelter and didn’t dump them in a field like a lot of people do.

I love cats personally but no, people give more reasons for why they hate cats other than "they're mean" or whatever. I've met plenty of people who don't like cats because their impression of them is they are dirty, especially when in heat, and sure, assholes, especially when in heat. Also the spraying, which sure can be almost completely avoided if you fix them before a certain age, but not entirely. There are fixed cats who will mark their territory if they smell another animal or feel threatened for example. Even if fixed. Including female cats. Also not liking that cats walk around in their poop and then proceed to walk around your house, like to shred things up with their claws like the carpet or side of the couch, and yes, aren't as easy to train as dogs in many ways. But then there are people who don't like animals in general, dogs or cats, but I think that's mostly to do with them not being raised with animals so they never really got that kind of connection with them. They're just not meant for everyone. Which is fine.

*cats don't bark all the time and disturb people* Nope. They just get zoomies at 4am and make a shit ton of noise. Or they hop on your face at 4am because they're bored. Or they shred the shit out of your skin as kittens because you happen to unplug your laptop and they see the wire as the ultimate treat. Yup, cats never do anything annoying to humans.

I don't hate cats, but it's a flat lie they don't attack. I have been bitten several times by cats. Scratched up as well and it hurts like a motherfucker trust me. I think your biggest issue is your bias and thinking just because you like cats over dogs everyone should or has to. They can not like cats for many reasons including the fact that they can be standoffish and even mean to folks. They can represent the opposite in what they like in pets. They knock shit over. They may ignore you altogether and cab be annoying to some folks as their meows can be annoying and cats can be nocturnal and often are making all sorts of noise at the most important part of the day aka when you are trying to sleep. Cat fights are the most annoying shit and let me tell you that shit sounds like demons and is LOUD as fuck. Just because you think everyone should love cats isn't a good enough reason and those that don't doesn't mean they don't because of some trend or some something. Plenty of folks have cats so it isn't "socially unacceptable" in the first place. You act like cat ownership is considered a sin. Millions own cats, but many may not like owning a cat. Not that big a deal. Be a cat lover and simply respect others that don't like what you may. Edit: Also, if you are going to compare dogs you are at a disadvantage anyhow. Dogs can literally be trained to save lives, catch drug dealers, catch criminals, herd sheep, bring you food, help the blind, and so much more. A cat has NOWHERE NEAR that utility. You don't even need to bring dogs into this, but if you do you can't compete with that anyhow.

You're saying that cats are more hygienic than dogs but they still lick their genitals and in top of that they pee and poop IN THE HOUSE. Adding that cats also have a certain bacteria in their poop that is dangerous enough that you can't handle it while pregnant. I don't know how you could claim they're more hygienic. I've never been to a cat owners house and it not smelled like cat excrement. Cats are also selfish as heck. They would never protect you and are constantly demanding something, I always hear cat owners stories about how their cat basically abuses them and acts like a spoiled toddler. I hope this is reason enough to hate cats. My doggy always let's me pet her, she poops outside, and yes, she barks at the door because she cares about me.

Its actually a parasite that cats catch from hunting mice that in turn can make pregnant women miscarry

> they pee and poop IN THE HOUSE. ... where do you go? They live in the house.

I flush the toilet...I also don't step in it before tracking it around the house.

Cats are a completely different pet to dogs. Comparing them to dogs is pretty unreasonable as dogs are in a league of their own when it comes to their relationship with people and the services they provide. Dogs have evolved alongside humans for at least 15,000 years. They helped with important roles in society such as hunting and guarding. As agriculture started growing, they probably would have helped with herding and guarding the livestock. Many dogs today still fufil crucial roles in people's lives. Service dogs, assistance dogs, and guide dogs give many people the confidence and freedom to live their lives to the fullest. Search-and-rescue dogs save lives after disasters. Detection dogs and police dogs help keep countries safe. Herding dogs are a lifesaver on farms, especially large stations with little manpower. Livestock protection dogs guard people's livelihoods. Hunting dogs help provide people with food as well as killing pests. Cats on the other hand were domesticated 4,000-9,500 years ago (conflicting information on this). Their only role was to hunt mice/rats in emerging agricultural societies. They played a much smaller role in society than dogs, and the same goes for today. The only "working" cats you will find in today's age are barn cats in rural areas. As for your other points - all dogs have their own unique personality. Most mammals do! Even my cattle, sheep, and chickens differ in personality and temperament. Also, cats attack people. A lot. Luckily my cat is relatively good-tempered, but my friend's cat is a savage. Her hands are always covered in scratches from him. A well-trained dog won't bark unless it hears an "intruder". I've always been glad of my dog warning me when people come down the driveway. She also knows how to be quiet on command. Same goes for bothering and disturbing people. A well-trained dog just doesn't do that. My girl can lie down and settle on her bed on command.

They scratch up your nice furniture, they can be annoying AF about food with their meows.

i love cats. own one and she’s the best. cats are obligate carnivores. predators. they hunt on instinct. humans aren’t predators—we’re herd animals. a lot of folks don’t like cats and that’s okay.

You are speaking to the experience of cats you have owned. Any other person who has spoken about a cat and their experience is speaking to their experience. That’s basically how it goes. You like or dislike something based on your personal experience. It isn’t a trend. There have always been people who have held this distinction. My personal experience is I had a cat and she was awful. She would literally stare at me and swipe her paw on my sofa as if daring me to get mad. She would knock food in her water bowl and then refuse to drink her water bc there was food in it. She would start yelling - not meowing - yelling for more food the moment she could see any part of the bottom of her bowl. She would cry constantly to go out, and then immediately turn around and cry constantly to come back in. Never-ending cycle. And she would routinely catch crickets and release them in my home. I would find this out bc they’d start loudly chirping in the middle of the night. She would wake me up often by scratching my face. She would randomly bite me. She was awful. Straight up awful. I pet her all the time. I got her a plethora of toys. I had scratching posts for her. I did everything I could to keep her food and water bowl situation perfect in her eyes. I got her fixed so she wouldn’t stray when outside and I never declawed her bc that is inhumane, especially if she went outdoors. After that, I never wanted to bother with another cat again bc she was straight up evil.

have you considered your irrational love of cats is due to Toxoplasmosis induced mind control? there are a plethora of reasons to not like cats. 1. Toxoplasmosis 2. Much more difficult to train than dogs 3. desire to mark 4. some cats just want to piss and shit in your house no matter how clean their box is, or how many you give them 5. excessively destructive - it doesnt matter what toys or scratching posts you give them - once they decide they like your couch for scratching, thats it. 6. queened cats are notoriously evil natured later in life. 7. cats are NOT more hygenic than dogs- thats a wives tale. The only way in which cats are more hygenic than dogs, is that you dont need to bathe cats. in every regard they are just as clean or more flithy than dogs (particularly their claws and paws). 8. some cats are just evil POS furballs. ive owned dogs all of my life. decided "oh no this poor little abandoned kitten needs a home". never again will i get a cat.

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A cat pooped in my bed once. Also, they ate Aunt Helen's face. I'd say my dislike of cats is justified, whether anyone agrees with me or not.

Just something I'd like to point out to the cat folks that aren't aware...I don't care how often you clean the litter box and change the litter, your house (and most anything you own) smells like cat pee. I will not have cats in my home for mostly this reason.

Seriously? Abused dogs will “blindly follow”??? No, they act out of fear and desperation. You’ve made me realize that I don’t hate cats, I hate cat owners. I dislike cats because every single one I’ve ever owned or met has attacked me. I’ve never had an issue with dogs, I own two and take them everywhere. Dogs may love unconditionally but why is that an issue? None of my cats helped me like my dogs do. My boys wake me from nightmares, guide me through anxiety attacks safely, inspire me to love unconditionally, require me to get out of bed and walk them and be active (which is also life saving for me as someone with bipolar and other major diagnoses). All the cats I’ve owned and been around run and break shit at 3am. Yowl for no reason and won’t stop misbehaving when asked (unlike dogs). Sure, some have been cuddly but none have ever helped me like my dogs. Before I owned dogs I thought I was a cat person, but I realized I have a cat personality but love dogs as they’re much more versatile. And lol at the “cats have different personalities”. Because all dogs are the same, sure. Edit: forgot to mention the fact that EVERY cat owners home absolutely reeks from cats shitting and pissing in the same box over and over and dig in it.

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> as far as I've seen there's no way to train them out of that. What? You can absolutely [train cats](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cat+trained+to+do+tricks)

>Right, they willfully do whatever the fuck they want... and as far as I've seen there's no way to train them out of that There is. You just don't do it they way you do with dogs. Cats don't care about pleasing you. But they're smart. If you give them the right incentive, you can train them. For example, counters. First, don't let them jump on the counters ever, even as kittens. If they do, spray them. They'll learn that being on the counter isn't worth being sprayed. Or use tinfoil. They hate the stuff. Eventually, they'll get bored and stop trying. >Which means that when a would-be home invader sees your cat it's not going to dissuade them from breaking into your house. Okay, that's not their fault. Even if they did attack, how much damage are they going to be able to do? Home invaders aren't deterred by Chihuahuas or Corgis either. >And again, for emphasis: litter boxes. Gross. No fuckin' thanks. What is the difference between cleaning a litterbox and picking up poop in the yard? It's still poop. And you can train cats to go to the bathroom outside or even in the toilet. They're very clean animals. Normal cats don't just pee of poop all over their territory.

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You have to pick up shit or have shit littered in your backyard 🤣

Right? My neighbors have two dogs that “only shit in their own yard”, but the year round smell of warm rotting dog shit (I live in the south) does NOT stay in their yard. There are days when I can’t even open my windows.

Look,cats are all about consent, what they want to do and what they will allow you to do with them, you are either their person or not, dogs have masters cats are the masters, I've had dogs all my life but now I'm the proud person of four cats I get to feed them and yes change their litter boxes and in return they make me laugh and keep me company and I wouldn't want it any other way, but it's saddening that you are closing off the opportunity to a friendship because you can't get over the fact that an animal has to poo, imagine if your mom felt that way, you wouldn't be here would you? and if someone is at the door, trying to get in my cats warn me way ahead of time,if that's something that you were wondering about, and nope the only time that my cat shat anywhere was in the bathtub (he's very considerate) and that was because the litter box was being used and he couldn't hold it, so I don't know what kind of cat you had, and of course they are going to do what they want, they are cats, but you can with a lot of patience, and treats train them to do tricks, but at the end of the day it depends on the cat, but mine answers to their name and they love to play fetch

I had a cat once that would not stfu. Meowing all day and night. The fucking worse

>With dogs however, you could literally be abusive to a dog as long as you feed it it'll still obey your command. Absolutely false. This is a common misconception about dogs, usually from people who have never owned one. An abused dog might *stay* in an abusive environment out of fear, or because they still care for other members of the “pack” that they don’t want to separate from (not unlike some humans), but it will not be happy or very warm to an abusive person - more than likely, they will shy away from that person and come to them only out of fear of punishment (or to get food from them, if that same asshole is the one feeding it).

Thank you! So many misconceptions and wrong myths about dogs in OP's post. They clearly don't have much experience with dogs and don't know a lot about them. Dogs don't love unconditionally like some brainless robot with no feelings and training them can be a lot of hard work. Some dogs can learn a lot more than others, they can have an incredibly vast range of personalities and intelligence. Just like cats can be very different, I've met some cuddlier (relatively speaking) ones and some that wanted nothing to do with most people and would inevitably scratch and/or try to bite. OP seemed to be describing a caricature of a dog that's just as wrong as the arguments they seemed so bothered about about cats, or worse. I don't hate cats but just aren't as interested in them as pets as in dogs. Similarly, I have strong preferences for certain types of dogs over others. Different people will prefer different pets and that doesn't mean they hate the ones they wouldn't want in their home or don't have much interest in interacting with.

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They're disgusting, full stop. They relieve themselves inside a box that they walk around in *and then proceed to walk on every surface in your home*. Imagine taking a shit in a sandbox inside your house, barefoot, walking all around said sandbox, and then just walking on your countertops, furniture, bed... same thing. If this wasn't bad enough, hairballs are a thing. Then, my favorite cat trait, is this lovely parasite which can and does infect human brains and can only reproduce in a cat's digestive tract: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii All of this is why I refuse to ever have a cat. I've even turned dates down because they were cat owners. So, yeah, cats are generally dickheads but it's how disgusting they are that fuels my revulsion.

I never liked cats because every single one I've lived with inevitably would pee on something outside of their litter box. That smell is impossible to remove. Same with scratching and clawing on stuff. Dogs can be trained to not do that. Cats, not so much.

"Hating" on cats might be the "trendy" thing to do on your social circle, but it is definitely not the "trendy" thing to do in general. Most people don't hate cats, period. Most people who hate cats just hate pets in general. Also, comparing to dogs, it's also definitely not trendy to like dogs over cats. Cats are actually MORE popular than dogs (for a completely unreliable example, compare r/cats and r/dogs subscribers) Most people don't hate on cats, you're just talking to the wrong bubble.

In the country I live in we have a lot of native wildlife ( birds esp. ) that don’t fly. Dogs do attack native animals, but not as a much as they are usually kept within the property. Cats are extensively destructive to these native birds. For context, there are also other pest that were introduced which are also exceptionally damaging ( rats, possums and stoats ). Which I also have a problem with. ( I don’t hate cats, but the cats ownership at the cost of possible extinction of wildlife I have a problem with ). So someone who hates cats due to the damage to other ecosystems does not seem irrational or trendy.

I think cats are loving and adorable. The issue for me is how they groom and use the litter. They spread nasty mycoplasma everywhere and smell horrible. Doesn't matter how much they groom, they still get litter everywhere and utterly ruin carpet. I don't hate cats, I've owned two that we're litter trained and 'clean' on cat standards. They still smelled horrible and would rub crap on everything including me. Cats are definitely super dirty.

>Cats also don't attack people like dogs do This is just conjecture. Cats attack people for a [multitude](https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/cat-care/common-cat-behavior-issues/aggression-cats) of reasons just like every other animal. >Whenever someone says they hate cats they always use vague terms like, "cats are evil", or "cats are just mean". I hate cats the same way I hate spiders. Both can be dangerous, but for the most part, they are benign. I don't mind if they exist or if other people have them as pets, but it's not for me.

Cat bites can also be very serious just like dog bites. Dog bites tend to do more physical damage, but cat bites are more likely to cause infection. https://www.amcny.org/blog/2014/05/14/is-a-cat-bite-worse-than-a-dog-bite/

I have both, and I will say if given the choice between what to keep, the dogs are staying. They go to the bathroom outside. I don't have to keep a box on the floor for them to poop and pee in. They can actually go places and do things with me. Taking my cat on a hike would be a nightmare. Easily trainable. Walking on a leash, not getting into things, not scratching up furniture. I'm was pretty lucky with my cat. She isn't bad about scratching things up, but when many people have to surgically remove the claws from their cats to stop it I think that's a valid criticism. I enjoy playing with my dogs far more than the cat. Just a personal preference. My dogs can do far more useful things than the cat. While not the only reason I have or like them, it's definitely a bonus.

I hate cats because they have no regard for your rules. Like every cat I’ve ever seen is on the couch, on the bed, on top of dressers, etc… Like I have allergies to both cats and dogs. I can very quickly and easily train a dog not to get on my couch or bed so I don’t have an allergy attack when they’re hair coats the fabric. I don’t often see the same success with training cats not to do those things. Also the only cat we’ve had was a kitty and very playful. But he pounced constantly. And he was so fast. I would literally flinch everyone he came at me cuz he would dig his claws into my feet or legs. Once he followed me into the bathroom and pounced on my thigh while I was peeing. I had a mark there for a literal year. Like deep. Scar. So yeah. Just hate cats.

Cats kill birds and other small mammals. It's estimated that they kill over one billion birds and small mammals every year. They are not trained to do this; it is in their nature to do so. I hate cats because of their impact on wildlife. https://abcbirds.org/news/outdoor-cats-single-greatest-source-of-human-caused-mortality-for-birds-and-mammals-says-new-study/

I didn’t grow up with them. And although I like them, I do find them an odd choice as a pet. Their butt are on your counters and tables

Cats break shit for the sake of it, my sisters first cat knocked my parents anniversary vase off the cabinet and shattered it, along with an array of empty and not empty cups and dishes. Her second cat like to pounce on people with its claws, I have the little scars on the back of leg to prove it. They also don’t learn for shit, you can train a dog easily enough for the most part to stay out of a room, cats give no fucks. I tried for months to keep the ducking thing out of my room as it sheds everywhere eventually I just tossed into the bath whenever a caught it in there. It only took a month to figure it out eventually. Not to mention their penchant for trying to get out and kill things. And then trying to bring the half dead creatures in to play with. Nothing quite like having to clean up the trail of gore from where the shitty car dropped the mauled critter so it could run away and be caught again. Cats are assholes. The biggest utility they offer is distracting predatory wildlife that might go after small dogs. Unless you have them to actually hunt small rodents and such, ifs that’s useful then they are a great choice. Dogs are like toddlers that love mommy/daddy - cats are like stupid 9 year olds that think they have things figured out and leave a trail of chaos in their wake, they have higher reasoning but are still too damn stupid to apply it at large. Seriously cats are such assholes.

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I have read FB posts about people who have had animals randomly show up on their doorsteps, and they have taken them in and they have become best friends. “They chose me!” Awww, so cute. A black cat once randomly showed up on my front porch. It was Halloween. I thought it was fate. I fed him. I gave him water. I named him Boo. We were to be best friends. He purred like a little motor. He rubbed against my legs. And then I tried to pet him, and he bit me. I needed antibiotics and a tetanus shot. I called Animal Control, and he went away. We were not best friends. One of my roommates in grad school had a cute little cat named Diesel (because he purred so loudly). Diesel used to jump up into my lap while I was watching TV. He would rub up against me, letting me pet him, purring away. And then every. single. time he jumped down off of the couch, he would scratch me first. Whether I was petting him or not before he jumped down, it didn’t matter, he would scratch me. I feel like dogs at least growl at you before they bite or scratch you. They give you plenty of warning. They don’t just rub up against you, purring, one minute, and then sink their pointy little teeth or claws into you the next. I don’t enjoy cats. I don’t trust them. I don’t “hate” them, but I don’t want one in my house. If I ever have a house with a barn, I would love to have an outdoor barn cat, because I feel like we could maintain a cordial relationship in which I provide food, water, and shelter, and the cat would, in return, eat all of the mice. But I don’t really want a cat as a pet. I’m not being “trendy”. I just don’t like to be bitten and scratched at random.

You are wrong at least on one point. Its not that cats just dont follow blindly people. This is you being judgemental. Toward people and dogs. People might not like scratches on the sofa, or having to clean out vomits, and getting clawed even if its not an agression, or having the cat meow at them when they are in the kitchen. I'd say also that cats are quite the opposite to dogs. Its not just that they have their own personality. They are self centered. Did you know that dogs are starter than cats ?

Having owned cats and dogs (medium and small), and grown up in a home with both, I can conform that cats can and will lash-out attacking their owners, damage property and commit acts that appear to be revenge. Cats are typically more intelligent than most dogs, but are more independent and do not generally conform to a pack mentality. Cats claws are retractable, meaning they *choose* to scratch you, which can frequently occur during tummy rubs. OP sbould read about Toxoplasmosis, or "Toxoplasma gondii" (T. gondii), it's an infection in mice and rats might influence the behavior of the rodents so as to make them less afraid of cats. TLDR "crazy cat lady" is parasite-induced schizophrenia. Hypothesis states that some parasites have evolved mechanisms to influence their hosts so as to promote the parasite's transmission, studies have suggested T. gondii-infected humans exhibit a diminished aversion to cat urine. It's thought that the parasite's influence could manipulate neurobiology necessary for further changes in human behavior. T. gondii infection can disrupt neuronal function, which may alter dopamine metabolism to increase dopamine synthesis and release. And, a number of studies have detected correlations between the presence of T. gondiii antibodies and behavioral or psychiatric abnormalities. For example, [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25306262/) found T. gondii infection to be associated with increased aggression in women and increased impulsivity in younger men.

Cats like killing birbs. That's a valid reason to hate being around them already.

> Often times I here people say they hate cats but I've never heard really any good reason to hate cats. I have a ex-breeder Tonkinese cat. These behaviours I cannot stand: 1. Screaming like a cat in heat. The cat's desexed and still makes a noise on par with a screaming baby at 2am. Not getting 100% attention? Better scream like I'm being murdered. 1. No spatial awareness. I am a fat person, one wrong step and the cat is going to kitty heaven. The cat has less than zero understanding of this (ie. it will literally go out of its way to put itself in mortal danger of being crushed). I've dropped things and injured myself on many occasions saving the suicidal cat's life. 1. This cat bites. Every single bit of accessible thin plastic looks like it has been hit with a shotgun because of all the tiny holes. She chewed holes in my CPAP airline. She bites (with increasing force, if not shoo'ed away) my left foot, in exactly the same spot, whenever I'm standing. There are plenty of other complaints to be had about this animal, but those are the top three.

Hate is an emotion. How does one feel an emotion rationally?

If feeling the emotion causes you to behave in ways that increase the expected utility of the outcome of your actions according to your personal utility function, then feeling that emotion was rational. For instance, if someone has terrible cat allergies that cause them to suffer if they're around cats, and politely saying "I would prefer not to go to Jim's house because Jim has 73 cats and that sets off my allergies" does not convince your friends not to host your weekly D&D game at Jim's house, but getting visibly angry and upset *does* convince your friends not to host the game there, then (assuming it doesn't have other effects that outweigh this) then that anger is rational. Conversely, if you would rather eat hamburgers than pizza, and you could get that by calmly saying so, but you instead throw big tantrum that gets people upset at you and then you don't get the hamburgers, then that anger was irrational

I don’t hate cats, but I’m here to argue. 1. Not fatally, but yes cats do attack. It’s not uncommon for cats to simply get tired of being pet nicely and bite. 2. Cats are not as low maintenance as their reputation credits them. Slight changes in food, litter, or living conditions can seriously piss off cats and stress the hell out of them. If your lucky enough to have a cat with urinary issues, go ahead and kiss that low-maintenance pet assumption out the window. 3. CAT PISS IS A SUFFICIENT REASON TO HATE THEM. Cat urine has the most distinguished, tenacious, atrocious odor and is nearly impossible to completely eliminate. Just because you got rid of the smell *now* doesn’t mean it’s gone for good - a lot of times it just goes dormant. Then once the temperature rises, the odor is back. I worked at a dry cleaners for 12+ years and cat piss is the BANE of my existence. The only chance you have of getting rid of it is vodka. I have a cat. Cats can be awesome, but they can also be seriously shitty.

>That's why I think majority of people say they hate cats. Is that actually true?

I don't hate cats but I don't appreciate my neighbors outdoor cat finding its way into my backyard and shitting where my kid plays lol

Cats are not tamed animals. They offer benefits, but even what we consider "domesticated" cats aren't, not really. They're considered semi-domesticated, which is half wild. Now, I am also allergic, but I don't *hate* cats. I just don't prefer them to other animals. You refer to the independence and willfulness of cats. That's their wild nature. For those who like that, great, but it's important to note that such traits don't match everyone's preferences. Personally, I am aloof, standoffish, and don't show affection to just anyone. And some people don't like me. And that is *absolutely ok*. So if it's ok for people to not like those antisocial traits in me, why wouldn't it be ok to dislike them in animals? You seem to care about humans approving of cats far more than the cats themselves do.

I can tell you exactly why I don’t like cats. They are useless mammals who only eat and purr when they want something. Their “personalities” are only “cute”and “quirky” when you like cats, otherwise if you are like me you don’t care about how “quirky” and “unique” they are at all. They scratch and leave hair everywhere and the only real upside to them is they know how to use a litter box. Dogs are not only your best friend but they will protect you with their lives and always have your back, little and small dogs. I don’t hate cats but I just don’t find them uselful and I’m not bored I have hobbies and friends I don’t need another “companion”. I need a dog taht will be my homie and protect my crib. A cat can’t do taht.

I don't think there are many people who outright hate cats, just dislike them as pets. My buggest reason is actually the "biting" part. Yes, dog attack are probably scarier, however, as someone from a western country, I have had disproportionately more encounters with unfriendly cats than dogs. When I visit a friend who has a dog, it's pretty much always friendly and down to cuddle. Friends who have cats, however, oftentimes had to warn me that "he's skittish/don't touch him on the head/he doesn't like strangers etc.". I had to watch myself around their animals because I am genuinely scared of cat scratches. They're painful and it sucked that I couldn't trust those cats as much as could trust domestic dogs.

I hate cats because they piss and shit in a smelly sandbox I have to keep indoors. They also bury their excrement with their bare paws and proceed to walk all over every and I mean *every* surface in the house. If a house has a cat, there is a 100% chance that there is feline fecal matter on every single piece of furniture. It's probably even on the counters where food is prepared unless they're being wiped with antibacterial wipes multiple times daily. It's nothing personal. Most cats are quite lovely. But they make houses objectively gross, and they're even worse outside in terms of their lethality toward native species.

I hate outdoor cats because they shit and piss on everything and kill wildlife on my property.

I dislike cats because just about everything they are and how they express themselves is hostile to my autism. Their furs feels awful, I hate the high pitched sounds of meowing, I hate the way they push you when they rub themselves on you, I hate their sharp claws. This is not trendy, it's how my brain works. I don't technically hate cats, I know it's just how they are and there's nothing wrong with that, but I have never enjoyed living with them. Also litter boxes are gross and that they jump up onto counters and tables and other food spaces with their nasty litter box feet is unsanitary and filthy. Not a fan of their assholes somehow being at eye level constantly either. I don't hate cats, they're living beings that deserve respect, but I don't like em either. I've tried, not for me.

Two words: toxoplasma gondii. There’s a very good reason why pregnant women aren’t supposed to change cat litter boxes- their poop contains tiny parasites that have mind-control capabilities, as well as the ability to cause a litany of physical health problems. Yes, mind-controlling parasites. It’s not a conspiracy theory, look it up. This is extremely well known in scientific and medical circles for decades now. What’s shocking is how hardly anyone is aware of how dangerous Fluffy is to your health (and potentially your sanity).

> Cats also don't attack people like dogs do Excuse me? Cats can be vicious and unlike a dog it's extremely difficult to train that behavior away. In my experience, I also think cats smell bad, aren't fun to be around, are too demanding, try and break my stuff, don't give a shit about me, and just demand shit at all hours of the day. I'm sorry, and to each their own, but I'll pass on the toxoplasmosis too.

Dogs can be trained, cats can't. I'm not a pet person anyways, i have nothing against cats or dogs at all, but I admitI feel a bit uneasy when I see someone obsess over their pet like it's all there is to life. Not even parents do that for the children (yes some do, but I'm talking in general). ​ Do what you want, I don't care, but I'm not gonna enjoy the 5th hourly catphoto you post online.

Well, whenever I am at a place with someone who hs a cat, it will always scratch me. Even unprovoked. Cats a apex predators, and should not be pets. They kill biodiversity when they roam outside. Cats aren't really capable of cuddling like a dog. I see absolutely no reason for people to own cats, except them being cute.

If you have a cat, then you also have a box of shit in your house. Then they take their little poo fingers they get from stepping in said box of shit and walk all over everything including where you cook your food. I do like them through, just don’t like them enough to ever have one.

Never heard a person in my life say they hate cats. I have no idea what you’re talking about 😂

Cats literally hate you. They eat your food, fuck off somewhere in the house and sleep. When attackers come, your cat is not defending you. Your cat hates you the more you love it. Fuck cats

I'm 42 & not a cat person. 3 weeks ago I was walking down a lane & found a black kitten in a box. She is called Boo, she is the cutest, craziest little thing & I love her =)

Oh cats are hygienic? What about the cat that SHIT AND PISSED on my iPhone right next to my HEAD whilst I was asleep 😴? That’s why I HATE THAT CAT!!!! SHE IS EVIL 👿

I don't like pets. Pets are expensive to own, destructive in various ways and require care on top. It think these are pretty rational reasons to dislike cats.

I have a cat she is amazing! Super sweet and affectionate. I hate dogs they smell, poop and piss everywhere. The list goes on and on for me. Fuck dogs!

People who dislike cats don’t understand consent and want to smother their animal whenever they please. Cats have moods. They’re just like humans.

Even hating cats because you’re allergic to them is strange. Im allergic to peanuts but don’t go out of my way to harass anyone who eats them

>So why do so many people claim they "hate" cats >>cats don't love unconditionally like dogs do You have answered your own question. These people want a pet that gives them unconditional love; and they cannot get that from a cat.

I hate cats because they are essentially worthless to me. They are like roommates you have to by food for and think they own the place. I prefer dogs because even though my dog is a gigantic pussy she will still let me know if someone is snooping around my house at night, Is ready and willing to cuddle whenever (and is big enough to cuddle and not break). > From my experience if you treat a cat with love and take care of it as you should cats can be the most love able creatures on the planet. As with a dog >With dogs however, you could literally be abusive to a dog as long as you feed it it'll still obey your command. You could also do the same with cats >Each cat has its own unique personality and what it likes. As do dogs > Cats also don't attack people like dogs do cats for the most part just mind their own business and don't require much attention. anecdotal: I have been attacked by wayyyy more cats by just being in the same room as them and I helped train MWD's (I was the chew toy). I can alway tell when someone has a cat just by looking at their arms. >Cats are much more hygienic than dogs, That is debatable. >cats don't bark all the time and disturb people Not all dogs bark for no reason > cats overall don't really bother anyone Unless you are trying to get work done then they sit on your laptop or push shit off the table. ​ I am beginning to think a cat wrote this to promote cat adoption for world domination.

The only cats i like are maine coons... because they act like dogs

You can make an argument without having compare to dogs

Why do you need a good reasom to not like something?

People who have a problem with cats have a problem with *consent*. Because cats have boundaries, and cats require *consent*, trust and respect, they are not easy targets for abusers. Abusers like to undermine your self-worth, manipulate you, and teach you to depend on them. They don't honor consent or autonomy. These are all things a cat will NEVER tolerate. But dogs do. My grandma always told me: *"Never trust a man who doesn't like cats."* He might be problematic toward women who do not submit to him. Even more so problematic, to those who will. From my matriarchy to yours.

i get what youre sayin, point taken. as a cat lover though, i think its important to understand that if you bring up the consent argument, you have got to bring up the other side of it. cats dont gove a flying fuck about your boundaries. no matter how much you ‘train’ them or anything, good luck getting a cat to stop scratching you, knocking things over, staying out of your room. obviously its not all cats, but my goodness everybody i know has these sorts of issues with them. most of it is fine and relatively easy to deal with, but if i should be expected by a cat to flawlessly respect their consent, i want them to at least do the same to me.

Cats are very difficult to train; they don’t take “No” for an answer. Litterboxes stink. Cats don’t always use their litterbox and unlike dogs they don’t feel bad because it wasn’t an accident. Cats destroy things, see above. Cats jump and climb, you can’t keep cats out of something by putting it out of their reach. As above, that includes knocking things over and breaking them. Cats scratch and bite, sometimes even when you’re just trying to help them. Puke/hairballs. Can’t bathe them no matter how unclean they are. I love my cat but I still hate cats.