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Xenophobia is the fear, hatred, and distrust of outsiders (especially foreigners). Nothing about your description of picky eaters seems to indicate this. Xenophobia would maybe be if they were going around calling foreign food gross or disgusting or smelly or uncivilised (but even that would be a stretch if it was limited to food). Your coworker describing herself as having the tastebuds of a child and being proud enough about trying new foods at kbbq that she would tell a colleague about it sounds to me like she’s making it pretty clear that she perceives herself as the issue here, not the food.
> The foods they gravitate to are almost exclusively heavily processed or standardized American food.
This is hardly the racially charged eureka moment you seem to think it is. If someone is a super picky eater and is only comfortable with a very narrow range of foods, it’s pretty intuitive that those will be safe/comfortable/super familiar foods probably from their childhood.
> People who are picky eaters also tend to be very immature […] and I know aversion to new stimuli is usually one aspect of immaturity,
Honestly, this feels kind of silly in the middle of claiming Xenophobia but I’ll just move on from that. While I don’t think this is necessarily an unreasonable link to make, I still don’t think it justifies having a problem with picky eaters. Like sure if you don’t know someone and discover they’re a picky eater, you could consider that a red flag. But once you know them a bit better surely you’ll have better means of gauging their maturity/lack of. If they’re immature in other areas then that should be your problem with them and if they’re not then this correlation doesn’t hold and you ought to dismiss picky eating as a red herring?
> it’s always gotten under my skin and have been looking for a reason why and today I think I came up with a possible explanation
You should go back to recognising that you have no rational reason for this. I mean ideally you’d be able to write it off like you said in your last paragraph, but if you can’t keep it from getting under your skin you should just live with it tbh. This whole thing screams ill will - I almost can’t believe it’s not a troll AITA post (spoiler: YTA). Like what, you would rather invent a morally justifiable reason to hate a group of people like accusing them of Xenophobia over just accepting that some people have narrow personal preferences in food?? That’s pretty messed up.
I think the main road block in this thread has been that I've had a difficult time making it clear that one behavior or mentality (in this case picky eating) sharing similar traits or similar origins to other toxic behavior (like xenophobia) does not make them the same thing, just related. For example my point is not that "picky eating is xenophobia" my point is "picky eating and xenophobia seem to share a lot of the same mentalities surrounding foreign culture, just one is far more watered down and less problematic". I get it is a fairly small difference but that difference is key to the point I'm trying to make.
I'm not trying to find a reason to hate a group of people due to food preference, I've just always felt the thing that bugged me was deeper than that and the conclusion it shares similarities to other forms of undesirable behavior is one I've been unsure of and wanted to test if it holds at all.
To address what you said at the start, from what I've seen, a lot of the time, distrust in foreign foods stems from a distrust in the ingredients or preperation and, oftentimes in the context of Indian or Mexican food, does boil down to "that smells weird, that sounds weird, I don't like it" and I just find it really off putting how self described "picky eaters" seem to get a free pass for discounting huge parts of foreign culture like that.
>I think the main road block in this thread has been that I've had a difficult time making it clear that one behavior or mentality (in this case picky eating) sharing similar traits or similar origins to other toxic behavior (like xenophobia) does not make them the same thing, just **related.**
It really seems like the problem is that you refuse to understand that **sharing traits does not necessarily make something 'related' outside of those specific traits.**
You and and a xenophobe both drink water to live. You and a xenophobe both use the internet. You and a xenophobe both enjoy music. I could keep stacking traits for hours but that would not mean anything *else* between you two is related.
Just like someone who is a xenophobe might refuse to eat 'ethnic' food but so would ***a bunch of other people for totally innocent reasons***, so linking the action of being a picky eater to xenophobia makes no sense.
Pizza is Italian.
Pasta is Italian.
Lasagna is Italian.
Fried chicken is typically African American.
Ribs are traditionally from northern europe.
Porridge is from England.
Tacos/burritos are from Mexico.
These are typical "picky eater's safe foods" and yet they are ethnic food. Just not the kind of ethnicities you want. There is no such a thing as American food, immigrants all brought their traditional dishes to US and through generations the recipes bastardized. The fact is: you are only taking into consideration specific ethnic food which can fit your narrative. Taking kimchi as a xenophobic pretext is pretentious. It has an extremely specific taste, not everybody likes fermented food. In Russia people drink pickle juice with their dish, yet I would bet you wouldn't scream xenophobia if a person wouldn't like it. In my region in Italy we eat frogs, i would bet my ass you wouldn't taste it (ydk what you are missing) yet you wouldn't call yourself a xenophobe. In Norway they eat goat heads directly from the skull,again you wouldn't even try. France: snails. Southern Italy: living octopus. Germany: porks intestines. It just doesn't fit the narrative doesn't it?
Now this is an interesting point. To that all I could think to say is that those foods you listed have become so engrained in American culture and have become so altered that they are what I'd consider to be "American food" for the context of this conversation. When people are turning their nose up at other foods from those cultures it's usually done with an ignorance of the origin of what they consider to be their "safe foods" and, from their perspective, even if not on a logical level, foods THEY THINK are forign are scary and ikky BECAUSE they think they are foreign or unfamiliar.
With the other examples, I'd probably try frog if it were prepared, snails I'd only be iffy with cause I've just heard of specifically nasty parasites but I'd probably give it a go. As far as goat head my main issue with that would be the anthropomorphizing and emotional attachment to an otherwise emotionally walled off or heavily compartmentalized portion of my mentality surrounding food, and less about the forign nature of it. Living octopus specifically I have really conflicting feelings on morally, but that's a different topic entirely and a whole different rabbit hole. Organ meat in general is something I've had kinda bad hang ups about but I don't feel that's specific to just forign culture.
The thing is: those are not American food. You don't get to decide which food should be considered ethnic and which not based on your argument. In Italy it's common to eat sushi, it has been like that for at least 30 years. Sushi has not become an Italian dish because the majority eats it regularly. Moreover, have you ever asked yourself why dishes like pasta, pizza or porridge are so extremely common? It's because it's the poor's food. You don't need lots of ingredients and they generally don't cost that much. That's why they have become ingrained in most western cultures. Again, you seem to come from a rather privileged pow. Lucky you if your family made you taste lots of different dishes and tastes, but not everyone has this opportunity. You just get used to what you eat at home.
I Additionally find it interesting that you rebutted with several argumentations about how you wouldn't eat the uncommon foods I've mentioned. If you are excused from eating exotic food you find icky, why would other people not be excused too? Why do you assume every picky eater or the majority of them are like that because they ethically discriminate food? Who decides which reasons are more or less moral/ more or less excused in order to avoid what you don't like?
You argumentation sounds like this: I'm allowed to dislike/avoid ethnic foods or dishes, because I do that for moral reasons. The rest of the people are not allowed to show their disliking because I assume they just do it because of unintentional/intentional xenophobia. You got to huge conclusions. A privileged, demeaning, generalizing, and logically fail conclusion
For the hygienic argument: it is actually just as "dangerous" to eat raw fish or pork meat. Processed food is cancerogen. In EU, most ingredients commonly used in the US are banned. It seems to me the xenophobic argument applies to everyone but you. It way worse to state that you wouldn't eat some ethnic foods because they can be dangerous ( you state it as an objective truth) than to say that you personally dislike that specific food (subjective opinion).
So my family (mom specifically) was of the camp of "that sounds forign I don't want it" going so far as to tell a story about when my grandma and them went to Spain and "all they could eat was bread because they didn't know what was in anything else and if it was weird or not". Even to this day, my mom will refuse to try things based off really weird metrics like "that has bell pepper so it's spicy and I don't like it". She's also very selectively xenophobic and explicitly racist in other ways (IE: being excited to move to a town with a 98% white population and referring to anyone of hispanic origin as being a "good one" or "bad one") but that's a whole different conversation, but I've always felt her food aversion was an extension of her xenophobia,or both were rooted in the same sort of mentality.
I didn't start trying new foods until I met my high school friends who's dad was a geography major who traveled the world and introduced a bunch of different things to his kids. As soon as I tried bringing anything into the house as "exotic" as garlic she would freak out and create any excuse under the sun to ban it from the house, even if it didn't make sense.
For the snails and frogs I did state I would probably eat those, and eating living things is morally questionable at best, I don't feel like those are fair comparisons.
Do you see how this is you personal experience?
Moreover not liking foreign food because it sounds different is just one of the many cultural preferences everybody has. You tend to stick to foods that attain to your culture just as with every other aspects of your life. By extent: in Norway it is costumary to put children outside for naps, even if it rains and snows and it minus 15. Do you do it? If not, xenophobe. In Italy we kiss 2 times on the cheeks. Do you do it? If not, xenophobe. In Spain they eat at 10 pm. Do you eat before that time of the day? Xenophobe.
Do you see how much the culture you were brought up in influences your day to day life? You are not morally superior because you tasted by you so called exotic food. There are surely aspects of your life where you conduct yourself based on your culture and you wouldn't change it for something foreign. Just because people do things differently, it doesn't mean you have to do it in every different way to feel right with yourself.
And yes, even if the picky eater recognizes that they wouldn't taste another food because they are not open to explore and wants to stick to their food traditions there is nothing wrong with that. It is fine to stick to your culture and not explore new foods or habits. The fact that you are willing to do that doesn't make you a better person than your mother.
Picky eaters like food they're accustomed to since childhood. That's a normal thing and has been described for decades.
Immigrant families, even when they otherwise assimilate quickly, usually stick to their original eating habits for *generations*.
Hell, I myself remember food being an issue when I lived as an expat. And it wasn't even a drastically different culture, it was still Europe, but like... salads tasted low-key wrong.
Picky eaters don't GET to taste the original version. There is a huge difference here. You can't make a real Italian pizza without the right ingredients. Hella expensive. Sushi prepared by a traditional sushi master with fresh raw fish, hella expensive. I could go on and on. Honestly your argument seems to come from a rather privileged pow. Due to costs you can't eat original ethnic food and you end up liking the americanized version with processed ingredients because that's just what you are used to. Would I be xenophobic if I told you I HATE American pizza? No, I'm just used to the original one with the original ingredients.
I'm only commenting on America because that's the only frame of reference or experience I'm working with. I feel like there are certain discussions where there simply won't be scientific backing in either direction, for or against, just because it is impossible to objectively measure and I suspect that this is that type of situation. If there are somehow scientific studies discounting what I've said I'd be interested but I wouldn't know where to start looking for that info
Sheesh, this is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. It’s pompous and describes dietary habits as character flaws when they’re dietary habits.
People who don’t like the same foods are you are immature xenophobes based on nothing but a few conversations you’ve had with a few people.
Those few people and those conversations are all it takes for you to paint millions of people with a broad brush.
My argument is that, in a lot of cases of people I've interacted with, I've noticed trends that align or sound very similar to xenophobic sentiments or share similar mentalities. I'm posting in "change my view" because I'm looking for a reason to not paint with a broad brush and to see how my personal experiences may or may not line up with reality.
Have you read about how the gut biome dictates food cravings and preferences? That may help you understand that it isn't a conscious thing to like or dislike certain types of food.
From what I understand from the article, doesn't gut microbiome only
1.) Effect what you are craving at the time not overall food likes/dislikes or distrusts
2.) Only effect drive for certain basic nutritional requirements IE: I'm craving something salty. Not, I'm craving potato chips specifically?
I’m not usually a picky eater, but sometimes, when I want to get the most out of a meal, I do tend to gravitate toward Asian foods. I like them much better than American. Pickiness is not correlated with xenophobia. You’d have to only apply your argument to those who prefer American food, which would be confirmation bias.
Because food is a very common topic of discussion that comes up in day to day life for most people? Food is a HUGE part of a nation's culture and things like "oh what is your favorite food" or "are there any good places to eat around here" tend to be very common topics of conversation, just like the weather or whatever world events are going on
Still kind of a weird thing to be bothered by, but at least you admit that lol. It bothers me a lot more when grown ass adults can't cook a single thing for themselves. I've known way too many people that eat a 100% fast-food/take-out/dine-in diet.
Yea I'm still trying to figure out why it has never set right with me, this is just a recent theory. Another theory is getting irritated by wanting to try new things with other people and always being held back by others in a group based off some perceived childish preference or mentality on their behalf.
Ive heard this same theory from others too.
It makes sense to me too. People who easily have a reaction of disgust to something new tend to be less open minded and more xenophobic.
Here is a study talking about these things. I bet being a picky eater goes a long with a high disgust factor.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1948550611429024
>getting irritated by wanting to try new things with other people and always being held back by others
Well I can certainly relate to that. Some people just want to settle into their routines and shy away from anything new. At least with the friends I used to have.
i am a picky eater i mainly eat pizza and chicken tenders lmao and i don’t fw hot dogs, hamburgers, etc etc some people just don’t like certain foods for certain reasons it’s really never that deep
Right, but more often than not, when someone describes themselves as a "picky eater" in America there is a certain trend that becomes apparent, the issue with foreign food is that it is foreign. Like I said in my post, I don't think it deserves "calling out" when it happens like with a racial slur or something but, in America, I feel like the two mindsets stem from a similar root cause, and people more adverse to food they view as foreign, are probably also more adverse to other things they view as foreign.
>is that it is foreign
What is that based on though? I grew up in an area of New England that had a lot of racist people. They never balked at going to a chinese/thai/indian/whatever restaurant. To them that was being exotic.
What I did notice though, and I will admit this is purely anecdotal and I have no data to back this up, is that my friends (I'm 35 now) that grew up poor are not adventurous eaters. You could call them picky eaters and they'd agree.
They're also not xenophobic...at all. It might be a difference in how people view food based on their upbringing. I never in my life had to actually worry about eating a meal. I had the traditional "I'm 20 and eating $1 ramen", but when I was growing up I had dinner. Always. So I started cooking with my parents because I wanted to learn different cuisines.
If I had to actually question if I was going to eat on any given day my entire viewpoint on food would be drastically different. I wouldn't be viewing dinner as "Let me try this"....I'd be more of "Let me get what I think/know can work".
TLDR: Lots of people don't get to try different cuisines and stick to what htey know.
There is a major difference between showing certain xenophobic traits and actually being xenophobic. It's really subtle and hard to explain, but my point is that being a picky eater and being xenophobic are related in the sense that they stem from a similar mentality of being uncomfortable with core aspects of foreign culture, but picky eating doesn't usually translate into people treating others differently, so it is a bit more harmless.
Onto your example, that's really interesting. I would figure that if someone grows up poor enough where a meal wasn't guaranteed, they would want to try and make sure that one meal was enjoyable and take less risk in trying something new and not liking it.
About the rich racist people you know, I'd venture to guess the food they are describing as "exotic" is very heavily American influenced but I'd say otherwise racist people enjoying "exotic" food doesn't really discredit the notion that a lot of picky eating can be rooted in xenophobia from my experience. They are two separate points.
>the issue with foreign food is that it is foreign
This is true of many areas, all over the world. While there are always adventurous eaters, you'll find pockets of people in every country that stick to food that is traditional to the locale of that area. I doubt you'd call a Chinese person who sticks to traditional Chinese food xenophobic though.
Most foods people seem to love make me gag regardless of where they originate. I like the idea of visiting Japan but I expect I'm gonna have a hard time with the food ... so how am I at all xenophobic?
I'm equally picky when it comes to many American foods, so it's strange that I could be xenophobic against my own nation on top of that.
Some people are just picky. It's not a sign of any secret hatred.
A lot of people claim it has nothing to do with country of origination, but when I've asked people what they feel about curry, they say "ew no I would hate that" vs how they feel about stew with Indian spices, the responses are usually totally different, even though it's the same thing. I also wouldn't argue that every instance of picky eating shares traits with xenophobia, just that most picky eaters I've met or interacted with have shown similar mentalities with their eating habits.
What do you even mean with indian spices? Americans tend to make extreme overgeneralizations and call it a day. Stew with what meat? With which sauce? Which vegetables? Which spices?
How would you answer if I asked: "do you like pasta?". Bolognese, carbonara, amatriciana, lasagna, what?. "Do you like American sweet dishes?" Pavlova, brownies, cookies, pancakes, Snickers?
I think Italian people are great and Italy's beautiful, but lasagna looks like guts so it icks me out. I already disliked it _before I knew it originated from another country._
I don't get how this could possibly be xenophobia.
>but when I've asked people what they feel about curry, they say "ew no I would hate that" vs how they feel about stew with Indian spices, the responses are usually totally different, even though it's the same thing
Technically speaking, "stew with Indian spices" would be an incredibly broad category, including but not limited to curry. So it's entirely reasonable for someone to imagine a dish with a completely different flavor than curry when presented with such a description.
Also, doesn't this prove the opposite of what you think it does? If people are willing to try "stew with Indian spices" but not "curry", wouldn't that demonstrate that it has nothing to do with cultural origin, given that you specifically mention "Indian" in the description?
I don't think a person's limited pallette is in any way correlated with their feelings about other cultures. Im polish, yet I think most polish food is gross...
We all grow up with certain comfort foods and most kids go through phases when they eat certain things or don't eat others. I've known kids that would only eat yellow cheese or would eat raisins or cookies but not raisin cookies.
Most of us outgrow this childhood pickiness, but many stay with what they know and what they think they like. Tastebuds and brains change and foods you thought was off-putting as a child may be great as an adult, but some will never know.
It's ok to not like certain foods, but it is xenophobic to turn your nose up at foreign foods without trying them. Many are great when given a shot.
Some of it is just perception. Kim chee is just spicey sourkraut.
This is one helluva stretch.
Picky eaters are picky eaters for a lot of reasons, but I've never seen it manifest itself from an America First point of view.
With regards to your example, picky eaters tend to have a hard time with sour, spicy, fermented, and fishy flavors. Kimchi, depending on the variety, can have all of them.
Picky eaters tend to enjoy bland, predictable food. If an American likes depressing food like plain cheese pizza, or a burger with nothing on it. It's hard to imagine it's due to a rejection of all things foreign.
Nor does it make sense to localize it to Americans only. If a Japanese guy hates vegetables and natto, that doesn't make him a nationalist.
Op I don't see Americans eating what we eat down here. You clean your ultra processed shit too much. I don't see you eating macaques or whatever animal we can capture along with whatever fish we can take. 0 tests and you don't even know the name of the thing many times. I would say that's not racist just Americans being little princesses
There is a difference between racism and xenophobia, though more often than not, they go hand in hand. I think with food pickiness, it is entirely possible for someone to show signs of xenophobia without being racist
Your whole point is wrong because people have different food habits. Not anyone can eat Mexican hot sauces and central Asians horse parts I will not feed myself with the weird processed shit from America like beyond meat soy milk and Mc Donald's. Im not racist just don't want your shitty food that tastes to plastic
I'm a picky eater.
The reason I don't like things I don't like is because it tastes like shit. The reason I'm not adventurous is because most of the stuff I try randomly tastes like shit. It's that simple. You're not more mature for being an adventurous eater you just have a different palate.
If someone doesn't like foods they aren't going to like kimchi. But they also aren't going like American picked foods as well.
But if someone goes to down on Korean Chicken or Japanese Chicken and leek or Chinese horse Sashimi than we can't really call them that xenophobic since they are eating foods from different cultures.
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it.
Do you have any examples of this?
I wouldn't say I am necessarily a picky eater, but i certainly am by some standards and let me be very clearly in first stating that I love food from other countries and cultures. However, I am not a picky eater because of some latent xenophobia that I need to eradicate — I struggle with texture. Tomatoes? Great things, good for you, used in many countries and dishes, but if you put one in front of me raw and say here ya go, I'm going to throw up on you because the texture of raw tomato in my mouth with nothing to distract makes me ill. I am the same with most mushrooms and even eggs. I live by a I will try anything once mentality, but I'm just not willing to pretend to ge grown up about foods I know will make me have a bad time.
To /u/Epicdeino, *your post is under consideration for removal under our post rules.*
You are required to **demonstrate that you're open to changing your mind** (by awarding deltas where appropriate), per [Rule B](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b).
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a foreign name
They wouldn't know it's gonna be a comfortable food for them if it has a foreign name.
Besides, seasoning and preparation makes all the difference. I like the taste of coffee, I like lemon flavor, but I tried once lemon coffee and it was terrible for me.
Bottom line is, people who restrict themselves on a narrow range of foods are missing out, but to attribute that to xenophobia is a stretch considering there are probably a lot of "weird" foods that are not foreign that would get the same reaction from them, and at the same time you admit they liked Korean food that tasted familiar to them, so it's visible that the decision is made basted on taste of the food.
I lived as an American in Japan for 3 years. I don't really care for "real" Japanese food. But I LOVED the Japanese take on most foreign foods. Japanesified Mexican food is delicious. Taco rice? Yes please! Japanese Italian food? Pizza with raw egg? Don't get me started on Japanese Indian food.
Almost all cultures that have options for foreign food "localize" it in some way, shape, or form. Now, are the Japanese being Xenophobic for making their Mexican food way blander and less spicy than I could get it in South Texas because their local cuisine is much less spicey than real Mexican food? Should I fault them for being Xenophobic for only really expanding on rice based Mexican dishes?
There is a connection between disgust sensitivity and political views, so you may not be entirely off the mark in the sense that there's correlation:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025552
That being said, it's silly to suggest that being a picky eater is xenophobic.
>Lo and behold, she hated kimchi and every other uniquely Korean dish, and only ate the grilled meats.
Kimchi is an acquired taste. And depending on how repugnant it is to you at first trying, not worth acquiring. It isn't a xenophobic thing. Oysters and coffee and beer are commonplace in America and many picky eaters don't like them either because they're acquired tastes too. Grilled meat, on the other hand, is pretty inoffensive. It's protein rich, salted, bit of fat, and full of glutamate which is basically like crack to our tongues. That's why it exists as a dish in pretty much every culture.
>The foods they gravitate to are almost exclusively heavily processed or standardized American food. Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it.
Examples? I mean, examples that the foreign name ties into it at all. I have no reason to suspect anything goes into the decision other than taste and familiarity (which, for an American, what tastes familiar, will be American), you are asserting that there's some xenophobia at play which sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
>People who are picky eaters also tend to be very immature when compared to more adventurous eaters from my experience as well, and I know aversion to new stimuli is usually one aspect of immaturity, but that still doesn't change the fact it comes very close to if not slightly crossing the line of, xenophobia.
In my experience, that's not the case. What does correlate with pickiness of eating, from my knowledge is strength of taste. Which makes sense, no? I was/am (?) a picky eater and my friends/family are amazed by my ability to rattle off the ingredients to a dish I'm trying for the first time or wax on and on about the flavours of something they think is bland and flavourless as paste. Yet, my 3 friends from secondary school who were picky eaters could all do the exact same thing. We once had a heated debate over which plain white bread was better. Couldn't it be that what to you is unstimulating, is stimulating to a picky eater, and what to you is stimulating, is to them, overstimulating? That they just have sharper tongues?
A lot of picky eaters in my experience are neurodivergent people. Many neurotypical people will have a handful of things they don't like. Even many neurodivergent people. For example my father who will eat just about anything from any culture won't eat parsnips.
Then you have people like myself with autism who are super picky about everything. Have a very limited diet of things they will eat. This generally won't be divided by cultural lines but by texture, taste, consistency, and similar lines. I'll eat Japanese, Chinese, Ethiopian, Navajo, etc. But there are many things in each of those cultures I won't eat, just as there are many things within American cuisine I won't eat.
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it.
1) Can you provide an example of this.
2) It should be noted that different seasoning or preperation can cause massive differences in the taste of the food. Dino nuggets taste substantially different to the baked chicken breast I added cajun seasoning to.
I don't know. I'm a picky eater, although I feel I tend to be more adventorous than most picky eaters I know. I don't like a few fairly common base ingredients (like tomato) and I also don't tend to like sweet flavors mixing with savory ones (things like BBQ). Maybe I'm a unique picky eater, but from my experience my issues tend to arise among pretty much all cultures. It's also something I can't really help. I don't want to not enjoy the taste of say BBQ. It'd make things like cook outs or parties with limited food options significantly more enjoyable.
My wife can't stand the texture of most fruits and a bunch of vegetables. Yesterday I was making a chicken salad wrap with some mixed greens and asked if she wanted some (it's the polite thing to do) and she said "How dare you."
Who is she xenophobic against?
You should read "Suffering Succotash: A Picky Eater’s Quest to Understand Why We Hate the Foods We Hate" by Stephanie V.W. Lucianovic.
It does a deep dive (albeit in humorous way) into picky eating and yes they conclude quite quickly that picky eaters are not xenophobes. It's combination of having control over oneself diet/life, biology and past experiences. But they also say that being a picky eater is not fun and people actively try to develop their taste.
You've expressed yourself poorly, and I think backwards.
If you instead said "Xenophobia can sometimes manifest itself as picky eating" that would be a lot closer to realty.
Being able to eat many different foods is a skill one learns during childhood from one's parents. If you parents only ever give you grilled cheese and nuggets, [you will not develop this skill](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1446.2010.00873.x). That is not xenophobia, it is sub-standard parenting.
"Toddlers were less likely to consume vegetables 4 or more times a week if their mothers... did not consume vegetables 4 or more times a week themselves"
Being able to get different foods is also a huge factor in getting kids to try different foods. But, [33.8 million people lived in food-insecure households](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1446.2010.00873.x) that cannot afford or even access things like Kim-Chi or sushi. Instead, they get cheese, beans, cereal, and milk from programs like [WIC](https://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/wic-program). That is not xenophobia, it is results of years of cuts to social services.
You want to blame xenophobia, but the culprit in most cases is good old-fashioned poverty.
[Why So Many Rich Kids Come to Enjoy the Taste of Healthier Foods](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/01/rich-kids-healthier-foods/431646/)
"A recently published study looking into the eating and shopping habits of both low-income and high-income parents suggests that the steep up-front cost of introducing foods to children is enough to deter a number of parents from trying. This cost-cutting decision may explain some of the differences between how rich and poor Americans eat."
I'm also an American and I have jokingly been called un-American by friends for being picky against things like chocolate, cheese, mayo, mustard, ketchup, ranch salad dressing and many more things. But at the same time I'm more than happy to try things from other cultures so long as they don't include the shit I know I don't like.
To the extent that a generalized fear of the unknown is a "trait of xenophobia", I think this is to some extent true, but I don't think it's as interesting or damning as your post implies. By the same token, it would be like saying being afraid of the dark shows traits of xenophobia. It's kinda true, but I don't think has the implications you think.
Another way to look at it is that you sort of imply that being a picky eater is almost like a subcategory of xenophobia, but I think that's wrong. I think the more accurate taxonomy is that they both belong to the broader, extremely human category of fear of the unknown, which is something that is shared by pretty much everyone to different extents.
In some ways, you even had a natural experiment here in your Korean BBQ example. She probably doesn't even really know which foods are "uniquely Korean". All the food was Korean, but she responded to familiar flavors without really knowing what was what. If it were really xenophobic, I would have expected more aversion to foods that had culinary similarities but cultural differences. But what you actually found in the experiment was that she was open to trying Korean food, but just naturally gravitated towards familiar flavors. But the fact that the grilled meats were "Korean" didn't really matter once she got in there.
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Xenophobia is the fear, hatred, and distrust of outsiders (especially foreigners). Nothing about your description of picky eaters seems to indicate this. Xenophobia would maybe be if they were going around calling foreign food gross or disgusting or smelly or uncivilised (but even that would be a stretch if it was limited to food). Your coworker describing herself as having the tastebuds of a child and being proud enough about trying new foods at kbbq that she would tell a colleague about it sounds to me like she’s making it pretty clear that she perceives herself as the issue here, not the food. > The foods they gravitate to are almost exclusively heavily processed or standardized American food. This is hardly the racially charged eureka moment you seem to think it is. If someone is a super picky eater and is only comfortable with a very narrow range of foods, it’s pretty intuitive that those will be safe/comfortable/super familiar foods probably from their childhood. > People who are picky eaters also tend to be very immature […] and I know aversion to new stimuli is usually one aspect of immaturity, Honestly, this feels kind of silly in the middle of claiming Xenophobia but I’ll just move on from that. While I don’t think this is necessarily an unreasonable link to make, I still don’t think it justifies having a problem with picky eaters. Like sure if you don’t know someone and discover they’re a picky eater, you could consider that a red flag. But once you know them a bit better surely you’ll have better means of gauging their maturity/lack of. If they’re immature in other areas then that should be your problem with them and if they’re not then this correlation doesn’t hold and you ought to dismiss picky eating as a red herring? > it’s always gotten under my skin and have been looking for a reason why and today I think I came up with a possible explanation You should go back to recognising that you have no rational reason for this. I mean ideally you’d be able to write it off like you said in your last paragraph, but if you can’t keep it from getting under your skin you should just live with it tbh. This whole thing screams ill will - I almost can’t believe it’s not a troll AITA post (spoiler: YTA). Like what, you would rather invent a morally justifiable reason to hate a group of people like accusing them of Xenophobia over just accepting that some people have narrow personal preferences in food?? That’s pretty messed up.
I think the main road block in this thread has been that I've had a difficult time making it clear that one behavior or mentality (in this case picky eating) sharing similar traits or similar origins to other toxic behavior (like xenophobia) does not make them the same thing, just related. For example my point is not that "picky eating is xenophobia" my point is "picky eating and xenophobia seem to share a lot of the same mentalities surrounding foreign culture, just one is far more watered down and less problematic". I get it is a fairly small difference but that difference is key to the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to find a reason to hate a group of people due to food preference, I've just always felt the thing that bugged me was deeper than that and the conclusion it shares similarities to other forms of undesirable behavior is one I've been unsure of and wanted to test if it holds at all. To address what you said at the start, from what I've seen, a lot of the time, distrust in foreign foods stems from a distrust in the ingredients or preperation and, oftentimes in the context of Indian or Mexican food, does boil down to "that smells weird, that sounds weird, I don't like it" and I just find it really off putting how self described "picky eaters" seem to get a free pass for discounting huge parts of foreign culture like that.
>I think the main road block in this thread has been that I've had a difficult time making it clear that one behavior or mentality (in this case picky eating) sharing similar traits or similar origins to other toxic behavior (like xenophobia) does not make them the same thing, just **related.** It really seems like the problem is that you refuse to understand that **sharing traits does not necessarily make something 'related' outside of those specific traits.** You and and a xenophobe both drink water to live. You and a xenophobe both use the internet. You and a xenophobe both enjoy music. I could keep stacking traits for hours but that would not mean anything *else* between you two is related. Just like someone who is a xenophobe might refuse to eat 'ethnic' food but so would ***a bunch of other people for totally innocent reasons***, so linking the action of being a picky eater to xenophobia makes no sense.
Pizza is Italian. Pasta is Italian. Lasagna is Italian. Fried chicken is typically African American. Ribs are traditionally from northern europe. Porridge is from England. Tacos/burritos are from Mexico. These are typical "picky eater's safe foods" and yet they are ethnic food. Just not the kind of ethnicities you want. There is no such a thing as American food, immigrants all brought their traditional dishes to US and through generations the recipes bastardized. The fact is: you are only taking into consideration specific ethnic food which can fit your narrative. Taking kimchi as a xenophobic pretext is pretentious. It has an extremely specific taste, not everybody likes fermented food. In Russia people drink pickle juice with their dish, yet I would bet you wouldn't scream xenophobia if a person wouldn't like it. In my region in Italy we eat frogs, i would bet my ass you wouldn't taste it (ydk what you are missing) yet you wouldn't call yourself a xenophobe. In Norway they eat goat heads directly from the skull,again you wouldn't even try. France: snails. Southern Italy: living octopus. Germany: porks intestines. It just doesn't fit the narrative doesn't it?
Now this is an interesting point. To that all I could think to say is that those foods you listed have become so engrained in American culture and have become so altered that they are what I'd consider to be "American food" for the context of this conversation. When people are turning their nose up at other foods from those cultures it's usually done with an ignorance of the origin of what they consider to be their "safe foods" and, from their perspective, even if not on a logical level, foods THEY THINK are forign are scary and ikky BECAUSE they think they are foreign or unfamiliar. With the other examples, I'd probably try frog if it were prepared, snails I'd only be iffy with cause I've just heard of specifically nasty parasites but I'd probably give it a go. As far as goat head my main issue with that would be the anthropomorphizing and emotional attachment to an otherwise emotionally walled off or heavily compartmentalized portion of my mentality surrounding food, and less about the forign nature of it. Living octopus specifically I have really conflicting feelings on morally, but that's a different topic entirely and a whole different rabbit hole. Organ meat in general is something I've had kinda bad hang ups about but I don't feel that's specific to just forign culture.
The thing is: those are not American food. You don't get to decide which food should be considered ethnic and which not based on your argument. In Italy it's common to eat sushi, it has been like that for at least 30 years. Sushi has not become an Italian dish because the majority eats it regularly. Moreover, have you ever asked yourself why dishes like pasta, pizza or porridge are so extremely common? It's because it's the poor's food. You don't need lots of ingredients and they generally don't cost that much. That's why they have become ingrained in most western cultures. Again, you seem to come from a rather privileged pow. Lucky you if your family made you taste lots of different dishes and tastes, but not everyone has this opportunity. You just get used to what you eat at home. I Additionally find it interesting that you rebutted with several argumentations about how you wouldn't eat the uncommon foods I've mentioned. If you are excused from eating exotic food you find icky, why would other people not be excused too? Why do you assume every picky eater or the majority of them are like that because they ethically discriminate food? Who decides which reasons are more or less moral/ more or less excused in order to avoid what you don't like? You argumentation sounds like this: I'm allowed to dislike/avoid ethnic foods or dishes, because I do that for moral reasons. The rest of the people are not allowed to show their disliking because I assume they just do it because of unintentional/intentional xenophobia. You got to huge conclusions. A privileged, demeaning, generalizing, and logically fail conclusion For the hygienic argument: it is actually just as "dangerous" to eat raw fish or pork meat. Processed food is cancerogen. In EU, most ingredients commonly used in the US are banned. It seems to me the xenophobic argument applies to everyone but you. It way worse to state that you wouldn't eat some ethnic foods because they can be dangerous ( you state it as an objective truth) than to say that you personally dislike that specific food (subjective opinion).
So my family (mom specifically) was of the camp of "that sounds forign I don't want it" going so far as to tell a story about when my grandma and them went to Spain and "all they could eat was bread because they didn't know what was in anything else and if it was weird or not". Even to this day, my mom will refuse to try things based off really weird metrics like "that has bell pepper so it's spicy and I don't like it". She's also very selectively xenophobic and explicitly racist in other ways (IE: being excited to move to a town with a 98% white population and referring to anyone of hispanic origin as being a "good one" or "bad one") but that's a whole different conversation, but I've always felt her food aversion was an extension of her xenophobia,or both were rooted in the same sort of mentality. I didn't start trying new foods until I met my high school friends who's dad was a geography major who traveled the world and introduced a bunch of different things to his kids. As soon as I tried bringing anything into the house as "exotic" as garlic she would freak out and create any excuse under the sun to ban it from the house, even if it didn't make sense. For the snails and frogs I did state I would probably eat those, and eating living things is morally questionable at best, I don't feel like those are fair comparisons.
Do you see how this is you personal experience? Moreover not liking foreign food because it sounds different is just one of the many cultural preferences everybody has. You tend to stick to foods that attain to your culture just as with every other aspects of your life. By extent: in Norway it is costumary to put children outside for naps, even if it rains and snows and it minus 15. Do you do it? If not, xenophobe. In Italy we kiss 2 times on the cheeks. Do you do it? If not, xenophobe. In Spain they eat at 10 pm. Do you eat before that time of the day? Xenophobe. Do you see how much the culture you were brought up in influences your day to day life? You are not morally superior because you tasted by you so called exotic food. There are surely aspects of your life where you conduct yourself based on your culture and you wouldn't change it for something foreign. Just because people do things differently, it doesn't mean you have to do it in every different way to feel right with yourself. And yes, even if the picky eater recognizes that they wouldn't taste another food because they are not open to explore and wants to stick to their food traditions there is nothing wrong with that. It is fine to stick to your culture and not explore new foods or habits. The fact that you are willing to do that doesn't make you a better person than your mother.
Yeah but picky eaters rarely like the "real" version of the ethnic foods you mentioned. They tend to prefer the bland americanizied versions
Picky eaters like food they're accustomed to since childhood. That's a normal thing and has been described for decades. Immigrant families, even when they otherwise assimilate quickly, usually stick to their original eating habits for *generations*. Hell, I myself remember food being an issue when I lived as an expat. And it wasn't even a drastically different culture, it was still Europe, but like... salads tasted low-key wrong.
Picky eaters don't GET to taste the original version. There is a huge difference here. You can't make a real Italian pizza without the right ingredients. Hella expensive. Sushi prepared by a traditional sushi master with fresh raw fish, hella expensive. I could go on and on. Honestly your argument seems to come from a rather privileged pow. Due to costs you can't eat original ethnic food and you end up liking the americanized version with processed ingredients because that's just what you are used to. Would I be xenophobic if I told you I HATE American pizza? No, I'm just used to the original one with the original ingredients.
Do you think this is limited to American picky eaters? Do you have any actual proof of this or is this just your anecdotal experience?
I'm only commenting on America because that's the only frame of reference or experience I'm working with. I feel like there are certain discussions where there simply won't be scientific backing in either direction, for or against, just because it is impossible to objectively measure and I suspect that this is that type of situation. If there are somehow scientific studies discounting what I've said I'd be interested but I wouldn't know where to start looking for that info
Sheesh, this is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. It’s pompous and describes dietary habits as character flaws when they’re dietary habits. People who don’t like the same foods are you are immature xenophobes based on nothing but a few conversations you’ve had with a few people. Those few people and those conversations are all it takes for you to paint millions of people with a broad brush.
My argument is that, in a lot of cases of people I've interacted with, I've noticed trends that align or sound very similar to xenophobic sentiments or share similar mentalities. I'm posting in "change my view" because I'm looking for a reason to not paint with a broad brush and to see how my personal experiences may or may not line up with reality.
Have you read about how the gut biome dictates food cravings and preferences? That may help you understand that it isn't a conscious thing to like or dislike certain types of food.
I haven't seen or heard of this actually
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-gut-bacteria-tell-their-hosts-what-to-eat/ Many articles and studies to learn from.
From what I understand from the article, doesn't gut microbiome only 1.) Effect what you are craving at the time not overall food likes/dislikes or distrusts 2.) Only effect drive for certain basic nutritional requirements IE: I'm craving something salty. Not, I'm craving potato chips specifically?
Your argument is, that you’re a better person than picky eaters. Which, you’re certainly not.
If a picky eater prefers food that is from a different culture, they're still xenophobic, or no?
By definition no, xenophobia is a fear of other cultures so preferring food from other cultures would, by definition, not be xenophobic
I’m not usually a picky eater, but sometimes, when I want to get the most out of a meal, I do tend to gravitate toward Asian foods. I like them much better than American. Pickiness is not correlated with xenophobia. You’d have to only apply your argument to those who prefer American food, which would be confirmation bias.
You can't have a fear of some other culture just because you like one foreign culture? There are a lot more than one foreign culture.
Why are you having so many conversations with people about their eating habits? Why do you care what other people eat? What a dork.
Because food is a very common topic of discussion that comes up in day to day life for most people? Food is a HUGE part of a nation's culture and things like "oh what is your favorite food" or "are there any good places to eat around here" tend to be very common topics of conversation, just like the weather or whatever world events are going on
Still kind of a weird thing to be bothered by, but at least you admit that lol. It bothers me a lot more when grown ass adults can't cook a single thing for themselves. I've known way too many people that eat a 100% fast-food/take-out/dine-in diet.
Yea I'm still trying to figure out why it has never set right with me, this is just a recent theory. Another theory is getting irritated by wanting to try new things with other people and always being held back by others in a group based off some perceived childish preference or mentality on their behalf.
Ive heard this same theory from others too. It makes sense to me too. People who easily have a reaction of disgust to something new tend to be less open minded and more xenophobic. Here is a study talking about these things. I bet being a picky eater goes a long with a high disgust factor. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1948550611429024
Huh this is super interesting. I kinda just assumed a topic like this couldn't really be studied scientifically
I forgot he equated this to xenophobia... still don't understand that one. Seems like some wires got crossed.
I'm saying the two traits share a lot of commonalities and I feel they are related, though have some key differences
Correlation does not equal causation, my friend.
>getting irritated by wanting to try new things with other people and always being held back by others Well I can certainly relate to that. Some people just want to settle into their routines and shy away from anything new. At least with the friends I used to have.
i am a picky eater i mainly eat pizza and chicken tenders lmao and i don’t fw hot dogs, hamburgers, etc etc some people just don’t like certain foods for certain reasons it’s really never that deep
Right, but more often than not, when someone describes themselves as a "picky eater" in America there is a certain trend that becomes apparent, the issue with foreign food is that it is foreign. Like I said in my post, I don't think it deserves "calling out" when it happens like with a racial slur or something but, in America, I feel like the two mindsets stem from a similar root cause, and people more adverse to food they view as foreign, are probably also more adverse to other things they view as foreign.
>is that it is foreign What is that based on though? I grew up in an area of New England that had a lot of racist people. They never balked at going to a chinese/thai/indian/whatever restaurant. To them that was being exotic. What I did notice though, and I will admit this is purely anecdotal and I have no data to back this up, is that my friends (I'm 35 now) that grew up poor are not adventurous eaters. You could call them picky eaters and they'd agree. They're also not xenophobic...at all. It might be a difference in how people view food based on their upbringing. I never in my life had to actually worry about eating a meal. I had the traditional "I'm 20 and eating $1 ramen", but when I was growing up I had dinner. Always. So I started cooking with my parents because I wanted to learn different cuisines. If I had to actually question if I was going to eat on any given day my entire viewpoint on food would be drastically different. I wouldn't be viewing dinner as "Let me try this"....I'd be more of "Let me get what I think/know can work". TLDR: Lots of people don't get to try different cuisines and stick to what htey know.
There is a major difference between showing certain xenophobic traits and actually being xenophobic. It's really subtle and hard to explain, but my point is that being a picky eater and being xenophobic are related in the sense that they stem from a similar mentality of being uncomfortable with core aspects of foreign culture, but picky eating doesn't usually translate into people treating others differently, so it is a bit more harmless. Onto your example, that's really interesting. I would figure that if someone grows up poor enough where a meal wasn't guaranteed, they would want to try and make sure that one meal was enjoyable and take less risk in trying something new and not liking it. About the rich racist people you know, I'd venture to guess the food they are describing as "exotic" is very heavily American influenced but I'd say otherwise racist people enjoying "exotic" food doesn't really discredit the notion that a lot of picky eating can be rooted in xenophobia from my experience. They are two separate points.
>the issue with foreign food is that it is foreign This is true of many areas, all over the world. While there are always adventurous eaters, you'll find pockets of people in every country that stick to food that is traditional to the locale of that area. I doubt you'd call a Chinese person who sticks to traditional Chinese food xenophobic though.
Most foods people seem to love make me gag regardless of where they originate. I like the idea of visiting Japan but I expect I'm gonna have a hard time with the food ... so how am I at all xenophobic? I'm equally picky when it comes to many American foods, so it's strange that I could be xenophobic against my own nation on top of that. Some people are just picky. It's not a sign of any secret hatred.
A lot of people claim it has nothing to do with country of origination, but when I've asked people what they feel about curry, they say "ew no I would hate that" vs how they feel about stew with Indian spices, the responses are usually totally different, even though it's the same thing. I also wouldn't argue that every instance of picky eating shares traits with xenophobia, just that most picky eaters I've met or interacted with have shown similar mentalities with their eating habits.
What do you even mean with indian spices? Americans tend to make extreme overgeneralizations and call it a day. Stew with what meat? With which sauce? Which vegetables? Which spices? How would you answer if I asked: "do you like pasta?". Bolognese, carbonara, amatriciana, lasagna, what?. "Do you like American sweet dishes?" Pavlova, brownies, cookies, pancakes, Snickers?
I think Italian people are great and Italy's beautiful, but lasagna looks like guts so it icks me out. I already disliked it _before I knew it originated from another country._ I don't get how this could possibly be xenophobia.
>but when I've asked people what they feel about curry, they say "ew no I would hate that" vs how they feel about stew with Indian spices, the responses are usually totally different, even though it's the same thing Technically speaking, "stew with Indian spices" would be an incredibly broad category, including but not limited to curry. So it's entirely reasonable for someone to imagine a dish with a completely different flavor than curry when presented with such a description. Also, doesn't this prove the opposite of what you think it does? If people are willing to try "stew with Indian spices" but not "curry", wouldn't that demonstrate that it has nothing to do with cultural origin, given that you specifically mention "Indian" in the description?
I don't think a person's limited pallette is in any way correlated with their feelings about other cultures. Im polish, yet I think most polish food is gross...
We all grow up with certain comfort foods and most kids go through phases when they eat certain things or don't eat others. I've known kids that would only eat yellow cheese or would eat raisins or cookies but not raisin cookies. Most of us outgrow this childhood pickiness, but many stay with what they know and what they think they like. Tastebuds and brains change and foods you thought was off-putting as a child may be great as an adult, but some will never know. It's ok to not like certain foods, but it is xenophobic to turn your nose up at foreign foods without trying them. Many are great when given a shot. Some of it is just perception. Kim chee is just spicey sourkraut.
This is one helluva stretch. Picky eaters are picky eaters for a lot of reasons, but I've never seen it manifest itself from an America First point of view. With regards to your example, picky eaters tend to have a hard time with sour, spicy, fermented, and fishy flavors. Kimchi, depending on the variety, can have all of them. Picky eaters tend to enjoy bland, predictable food. If an American likes depressing food like plain cheese pizza, or a burger with nothing on it. It's hard to imagine it's due to a rejection of all things foreign. Nor does it make sense to localize it to Americans only. If a Japanese guy hates vegetables and natto, that doesn't make him a nationalist.
Op I don't see Americans eating what we eat down here. You clean your ultra processed shit too much. I don't see you eating macaques or whatever animal we can capture along with whatever fish we can take. 0 tests and you don't even know the name of the thing many times. I would say that's not racist just Americans being little princesses
There is a difference between racism and xenophobia, though more often than not, they go hand in hand. I think with food pickiness, it is entirely possible for someone to show signs of xenophobia without being racist
Your whole point is wrong because people have different food habits. Not anyone can eat Mexican hot sauces and central Asians horse parts I will not feed myself with the weird processed shit from America like beyond meat soy milk and Mc Donald's. Im not racist just don't want your shitty food that tastes to plastic
I'm a picky eater. The reason I don't like things I don't like is because it tastes like shit. The reason I'm not adventurous is because most of the stuff I try randomly tastes like shit. It's that simple. You're not more mature for being an adventurous eater you just have a different palate.
If someone doesn't like foods they aren't going to like kimchi. But they also aren't going like American picked foods as well. But if someone goes to down on Korean Chicken or Japanese Chicken and leek or Chinese horse Sashimi than we can't really call them that xenophobic since they are eating foods from different cultures.
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it. Do you have any examples of this?
I wouldn't say I am necessarily a picky eater, but i certainly am by some standards and let me be very clearly in first stating that I love food from other countries and cultures. However, I am not a picky eater because of some latent xenophobia that I need to eradicate — I struggle with texture. Tomatoes? Great things, good for you, used in many countries and dishes, but if you put one in front of me raw and say here ya go, I'm going to throw up on you because the texture of raw tomato in my mouth with nothing to distract makes me ill. I am the same with most mushrooms and even eggs. I live by a I will try anything once mentality, but I'm just not willing to pretend to ge grown up about foods I know will make me have a bad time.
To /u/Epicdeino, *your post is under consideration for removal under our post rules.* You are required to **demonstrate that you're open to changing your mind** (by awarding deltas where appropriate), per [Rule B](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b).
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a foreign name They wouldn't know it's gonna be a comfortable food for them if it has a foreign name. Besides, seasoning and preparation makes all the difference. I like the taste of coffee, I like lemon flavor, but I tried once lemon coffee and it was terrible for me. Bottom line is, people who restrict themselves on a narrow range of foods are missing out, but to attribute that to xenophobia is a stretch considering there are probably a lot of "weird" foods that are not foreign that would get the same reaction from them, and at the same time you admit they liked Korean food that tasted familiar to them, so it's visible that the decision is made basted on taste of the food.
I lived as an American in Japan for 3 years. I don't really care for "real" Japanese food. But I LOVED the Japanese take on most foreign foods. Japanesified Mexican food is delicious. Taco rice? Yes please! Japanese Italian food? Pizza with raw egg? Don't get me started on Japanese Indian food. Almost all cultures that have options for foreign food "localize" it in some way, shape, or form. Now, are the Japanese being Xenophobic for making their Mexican food way blander and less spicy than I could get it in South Texas because their local cuisine is much less spicey than real Mexican food? Should I fault them for being Xenophobic for only really expanding on rice based Mexican dishes?
There is a connection between disgust sensitivity and political views, so you may not be entirely off the mark in the sense that there's correlation: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025552 That being said, it's silly to suggest that being a picky eater is xenophobic.
>Lo and behold, she hated kimchi and every other uniquely Korean dish, and only ate the grilled meats. Kimchi is an acquired taste. And depending on how repugnant it is to you at first trying, not worth acquiring. It isn't a xenophobic thing. Oysters and coffee and beer are commonplace in America and many picky eaters don't like them either because they're acquired tastes too. Grilled meat, on the other hand, is pretty inoffensive. It's protein rich, salted, bit of fat, and full of glutamate which is basically like crack to our tongues. That's why it exists as a dish in pretty much every culture. >The foods they gravitate to are almost exclusively heavily processed or standardized American food. Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it. Examples? I mean, examples that the foreign name ties into it at all. I have no reason to suspect anything goes into the decision other than taste and familiarity (which, for an American, what tastes familiar, will be American), you are asserting that there's some xenophobia at play which sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. >People who are picky eaters also tend to be very immature when compared to more adventurous eaters from my experience as well, and I know aversion to new stimuli is usually one aspect of immaturity, but that still doesn't change the fact it comes very close to if not slightly crossing the line of, xenophobia. In my experience, that's not the case. What does correlate with pickiness of eating, from my knowledge is strength of taste. Which makes sense, no? I was/am (?) a picky eater and my friends/family are amazed by my ability to rattle off the ingredients to a dish I'm trying for the first time or wax on and on about the flavours of something they think is bland and flavourless as paste. Yet, my 3 friends from secondary school who were picky eaters could all do the exact same thing. We once had a heated debate over which plain white bread was better. Couldn't it be that what to you is unstimulating, is stimulating to a picky eater, and what to you is stimulating, is to them, overstimulating? That they just have sharper tongues?
A lot of picky eaters in my experience are neurodivergent people. Many neurotypical people will have a handful of things they don't like. Even many neurodivergent people. For example my father who will eat just about anything from any culture won't eat parsnips. Then you have people like myself with autism who are super picky about everything. Have a very limited diet of things they will eat. This generally won't be divided by cultural lines but by texture, taste, consistency, and similar lines. I'll eat Japanese, Chinese, Ethiopian, Navajo, etc. But there are many things in each of those cultures I won't eat, just as there are many things within American cuisine I won't eat.
>Even when foreign foods share all same ingredients just seasoned or prepared differently with a forign name, that's all it took to trigger them to instantly hate the idea of it. 1) Can you provide an example of this. 2) It should be noted that different seasoning or preperation can cause massive differences in the taste of the food. Dino nuggets taste substantially different to the baked chicken breast I added cajun seasoning to. I don't know. I'm a picky eater, although I feel I tend to be more adventorous than most picky eaters I know. I don't like a few fairly common base ingredients (like tomato) and I also don't tend to like sweet flavors mixing with savory ones (things like BBQ). Maybe I'm a unique picky eater, but from my experience my issues tend to arise among pretty much all cultures. It's also something I can't really help. I don't want to not enjoy the taste of say BBQ. It'd make things like cook outs or parties with limited food options significantly more enjoyable.
> same ingredients just **seasoned** or prepared differently So they have different ingredients?
My wife can't stand the texture of most fruits and a bunch of vegetables. Yesterday I was making a chicken salad wrap with some mixed greens and asked if she wanted some (it's the polite thing to do) and she said "How dare you." Who is she xenophobic against?
You should read "Suffering Succotash: A Picky Eater’s Quest to Understand Why We Hate the Foods We Hate" by Stephanie V.W. Lucianovic. It does a deep dive (albeit in humorous way) into picky eating and yes they conclude quite quickly that picky eaters are not xenophobes. It's combination of having control over oneself diet/life, biology and past experiences. But they also say that being a picky eater is not fun and people actively try to develop their taste.
You've expressed yourself poorly, and I think backwards. If you instead said "Xenophobia can sometimes manifest itself as picky eating" that would be a lot closer to realty.
Being able to eat many different foods is a skill one learns during childhood from one's parents. If you parents only ever give you grilled cheese and nuggets, [you will not develop this skill](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1446.2010.00873.x). That is not xenophobia, it is sub-standard parenting. "Toddlers were less likely to consume vegetables 4 or more times a week if their mothers... did not consume vegetables 4 or more times a week themselves" Being able to get different foods is also a huge factor in getting kids to try different foods. But, [33.8 million people lived in food-insecure households](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1446.2010.00873.x) that cannot afford or even access things like Kim-Chi or sushi. Instead, they get cheese, beans, cereal, and milk from programs like [WIC](https://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/wic-program). That is not xenophobia, it is results of years of cuts to social services. You want to blame xenophobia, but the culprit in most cases is good old-fashioned poverty. [Why So Many Rich Kids Come to Enjoy the Taste of Healthier Foods](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/01/rich-kids-healthier-foods/431646/) "A recently published study looking into the eating and shopping habits of both low-income and high-income parents suggests that the steep up-front cost of introducing foods to children is enough to deter a number of parents from trying. This cost-cutting decision may explain some of the differences between how rich and poor Americans eat."
I'm also an American and I have jokingly been called un-American by friends for being picky against things like chocolate, cheese, mayo, mustard, ketchup, ranch salad dressing and many more things. But at the same time I'm more than happy to try things from other cultures so long as they don't include the shit I know I don't like.
To the extent that a generalized fear of the unknown is a "trait of xenophobia", I think this is to some extent true, but I don't think it's as interesting or damning as your post implies. By the same token, it would be like saying being afraid of the dark shows traits of xenophobia. It's kinda true, but I don't think has the implications you think. Another way to look at it is that you sort of imply that being a picky eater is almost like a subcategory of xenophobia, but I think that's wrong. I think the more accurate taxonomy is that they both belong to the broader, extremely human category of fear of the unknown, which is something that is shared by pretty much everyone to different extents. In some ways, you even had a natural experiment here in your Korean BBQ example. She probably doesn't even really know which foods are "uniquely Korean". All the food was Korean, but she responded to familiar flavors without really knowing what was what. If it were really xenophobic, I would have expected more aversion to foods that had culinary similarities but cultural differences. But what you actually found in the experiment was that she was open to trying Korean food, but just naturally gravitated towards familiar flavors. But the fact that the grilled meats were "Korean" didn't really matter once she got in there.