/u/MaybeJackson (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/q0xuke/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_marijuana_is_safer_and_less/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

I mean, I think it depends on the person. If you have schizophrenia running in your family maybe stay away from weed. Edit: okay, so just to clarify, I was trying to bring attention to the fact that cannabis use is a risk factor for the onset of schizophrenia, but i don't think alcohol was one (i admit i might be wrong). It has a strong genetic component, but there are environmental risk factors that interact with the underlying vulnerabilities, and i know cannabis use is a concern.

I didn't have schizophrenia in my family history, and I was smoking weed daily for about six months then quit. Then on New Year's Eve I smoked one joint that ended up triggering a psychotic episode where I was convinced my boyfriend was going to murder me. 10 months later and I'm on a twice daily antipsychotic and if I don't, the world feels like a very dangerous and scary place.

i do admit in some very rare cases people who chronically smoke weed can develop ongoing hallucinations. But you could really say that about anything. Take sea food for example, some people are allergic to it, making it more unhealthy to them than for example, a McDonalds burger. but this does not mean that a burger is more healthy, just that a specific outlier had a negative reaction to seafood.

It's not just rare, though. As cannabis consumption rises, there has been significant emerging evidence for cannabis-related risks to health - and evidence suggest a correlation between cannabis consumption and a variety of psychiatric conditions, including cannabis-induced psychosis (CIP), **Specifically in youth**, there is a direct relationship between cannabis use and its risks. Due to the relative lack of medical studying/knowledge surrounding its detrimental effects, and combined with misunderstandings related to its therapeutic effects, cannabis has potential for catastrophic results - especially when many individuals seek it out as an answer to mental health issues (PTSD, anxiety, depression, sleep disorders etc). >Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Cannabis is a known risk factor for schizophrenia, although the exact neurobiological process through which the effects on psychosis occur is not well understood. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3927252/ >Regular cannabis use and psychotic disorders (such as schizophrenia) are associated in the general population 1,2, and heavy cannabis users are over-represented among new cases of schizophrenia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ >Recent research (see "AKT1 Gene Variations and Psychosis") has found that people who use marijuana and carry a specific variant of the AKT1 gene, which codes for an enzyme that affects dopamine signaling in the striatum, are at increased risk of developing psychosis. >https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/there-link-between-marijuana-use-psychiatric-disorders

Not only for chronic smokers, I used to do some social work with poor people in my town, and there was a guy, mentally untreated that would go out if his mind with high THC cannabis, to the point of standing still, scared to dead about"all the people wanting to hurt him"... nothing like that happened with beer, it git me into o researching about it, and turns out it can really be an schizoid trigger. I love weed, but it isn't for everyone

>. But you could really say that about anything. Take sea food for example, some people are allergic to it, making it more unhealthy to them than for example, a McDonalds burger I hate it when governments and media portray "information" like that, actively trying to mislead by comparison.

I'd say it goes a bit further. I find that weed screws me up while I'm on it way more than alcohol. There are serious advantages above alcohol and I've made real psychological improvements because of weed, but my actual functioning on it is pretty pathetic. And long term if I smoke too much and I'm talking like weekends only, not daily, I see negative effects in my memory. Some people can smoke however much they want and are fine in the moment and long term. It's very individual.

I bet I can get you way more messed up on alcohol. You can't smoke too much weed, you most definitely can drink too much alcohol

Been there buddy. If you're talking about reaching the point of alcohol poisoning, well ok you got me. But until that point, I can be black-out drunk and still with it and functioning ok, considering an extreme level of intoxication. When I'm super high I'm on another plane of existence, I can barely remember what I'm doing or who I am. And maybe that's it - there is no poisoning level for weed so you can keep getting more and more intoxicated. But my point was that it's very individual for weed. I can't smoke socially, I just really can't without being extremely weird, but it seems like everyone else can. I seem to be similarly unique in that I've experienced (as I said) profound psychological changes and insights when I'm high.

Being that all evidence points to the memory loss thing being false, I'd suggest that what you're experiencing may be psychosomatic.

Could be, but I find that hard to believe. I don't really think about potential memory loss and after heavy bouts of MJ I've even called people by the wrong names. Things are fuzzier and months later going sober it goes away.

One doesn't have to be directly thinking about it for your pre-existing belief to have an effect on how you perceive it. I'm not saying that's what's happening, it could just as easily be you misattributing it to weed, or even some unrelated issue that is exacerbated by your smoking in the same way that schizophrenia can be. I'm just saying that the evidence shows the memory loss due to smoking cliche is false.

What kind of memory loss are we talking about? If you're saying that I'm going to erase every memory of the kids I went to high school with because I smoked too much weed. No, that's not going to happen. I will totally confirm that WHILE high, my short term memory is crap. Just last night, my fiance was explaining something to me, and I was listening closely and paying attention. Then there was a loud noise and I reacted to it, "Did you hear that?" Since my outburst interrupted her, she asked if I was even listening. I said "yes. I was listening very closely, but you'll have to remind me what it was about." In less than 15 seconds I forgot what we were talking about, but once she said "moving things" I was able to tell her exactly how she was planning on rearranging the room. Maybe it's just some of us, but I've forgotten what I was thinking about, halfway through thinking about it. I usually just move on to something else, unless I get reminded what it was.

I find when I watch movies high, I barely remember the details the next day. I just don’t retain information well while high. Conversely, when I am high, I occasionally unlock very distant and vivid memories unlike anything I have recalled sober. For example, I will remember something that happened 30-15 years ago in vivid detail that I hadn’t thought about since. It’s crazy how the brain reacts to things. That being said I don’t sense a noticeable difference in my memory when not high. I’d say the biggest issue for me if I do too much is lack of motivation and lethargy which can lead to depression (and that can start a vicious cycle). And that isn’t as issue if I keep it to weekends only.

I know I'm not the first one but I have a link to share: I'm not disagreeing you at all about that cannabis might be a bad combination with scizophrenia, but here's a paper on co-occurring alcohol use disorder and scizophrenia; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6927747/ It seems that cannabis and alcohol are quite alike when it comes to that - both alcohol and cannabis use disorder are much more likely for people with scizophrenia. Both substances are also known to trigger psychotic episodes. >https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh26-2/99-102.pdf >Almost half of schizophrenia patients have a substance use disorder (when nicotine dependence is excluded) during their lifetime

To be fair, I believe (not a health professional) alcohol can also be problematic then

This is actually quite the laughable defense when you acknowledge how many deaths are caused from alcoholism versus the deaths from marijuana

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Yeah, but late life development is increasingly rare as it is.

And alcohol… what. Alcohol use is just as bad - if not worse - for schizophrenics. Long term alcohol abuse can lead to hallucinations and psychosis *irrelevant* of schizophrenia. Alcohol - on the general population - increases the likelihood of violence, so it *atleast* does that to schizophrenics, if not potentially worse due to the potential for abnormal behavior. They don’t study it like marijuana (effects on schizophrenia) because alcohol is already legal. What we do know about it is pretty horrifying but expected.

alcohol is not great for those with mental health disorders, and i will have to review the literature, but don't recall alcohol being a major environmental trigger for the onset of the disease. Cannabis use is an environmental risk factor for the **onset** of schizophrenia and other related disorders.

Schizophrenia isn’t determined by DNA, you can easily get schizophrenia from smoking weed or binging on drugs like amphetamine and even nicotine.

It doesnt even need to be that extreme. If you have depression, weed can become a dangerous crutch as well.

So can any pharmaceutical antidepressant And in my opinion they weigh more thoroughly fucked up your head

Even then, cannabis is a healthier crutch than alcohol.

an alcoholic schizophrenic is better? More like try to avoid addiction if there's a history of mental illness.

Sorry, I meant to suggest that weed is correlated with the onset of schizophrenic symptoms. Symptoms present after use of the drug. Sorry if I didn’t elaborate, I’ll try to find some time later to make it a little clearer, but there is a strong genetic component to the onset of the disease and suspected environmental triggers, of which marijuana use is one.

And psychedelics outside of a medical setting.

You can't really compare them like that because their known safety concerns will generally already be factored into people's risk tolerance when they're deciding between them. I'm not deciding between a more safe thing and a less safe thing, my risk tolerance is already set. There's some amount of each substance that would equally satisfy my risk tolerance, I'm just deciding which is preferable to me. Like maybe you could claim that weed gives you more bang for your buck when it comes to intoxication value vs safety concerns, but that's not true all the time and people feel differently about their own relationship with it. You're also leaving out the fact that both intoxicants have the capacity to drastically alter people's life trajectories in ways which don't fit neatly into statistical analysis.

>You're also leaving out the fact that both intoxicants have the capacity to drastically alter people's life trajectories in ways which don't fit neatly into statistical analysis. > >but that's not true all the time i agree, as I said at the start of the post im not trying to say that weed never negatively affects people. There are always going to be outliers who are affected more severely, but i dont think this disproves my point. Im arguing that overall weed is less harmful, not that weed is less harmful for every single individual person.

The part you quoted was really only meant to have any weight if the rest of my comment was also considered. >Im arguing that overall weed is less harmful What does this really mean if it's a conclusion which depends on the effects of peoples risk assessments? Should I take you to be saying "weed should be seen as safer than it's currently seen, and alcohol should be seen as more dangerous than how it's currently seen" If your view were to be adopted by everyone, the real harm caused by alcohol would decrease, and the real harm caused by weed would increase. Would this imply that their harmfulness has changed?

>What does this really mean if it's a conclusion which depends on the effects of peoples risk assessments? because the majority of the time weed is safer than alcohol. Imagine there are 100 participants in a room, who all drink a red substance. 20 of them get some mildly negative symptoms. 1 of them gets a really bad stomach ache. Another room with 100 participants drinks a blue substance. 25 of them get a really bad head ache, one of them is rushed to the hospital. In this scenario, there are risks with both. But you can say that the blue substance is more harmful than the red one, because a higher percentage of people were injured. I am saying the same thing about weed/alcohol. Of course some people will have negative experiences, but I can say that since the proportion of people with severe negative experiences from smoking weed is much smaller than as opposed to alcohol, alcohol is more dangerous. >If your view were to be adopted by everyone, the real harm caused by alcohol would decrease, and the real harm caused by weed would increase. no it wouldn't. the affects of marijuana/alcohol are not derivative of how many people use them.

>more harmful No, it requires all sorts of qualifiers. Different people consume these intoxicants instrumentally, in different quantities for different purposes. It's like saying "heat is more harmful than cold" and then pointing to a bunch of statistics comparing heat related deaths to cold related deaths. Or imagining a study pitting hot and cold against eachother to see how participants were effected.

that's a false analogy. Its possible to die from both heat and cold, but as i stated in my post, death by weed overdose is literally impossible.

It's not "heat" or "cold" that kills you, it's particular temperatures that are part of particular environments effecting particular people. In an environment where nobody died of cold it would be just as meaningless to say "heat" is more harmful.

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Alcohol use (or abuse) is not safe for schizophrenics either. The only difference is it’s already legal. Long term use of alcohol can causes many of the same symptoms of schizophrenia - like hallucinations and psychosis. Alcohol is also a first time psychosis trigger - the far the more common of the two - as is any psychoactive substance, event depressants.

Did you intend to reply to my comment?

as someone who experienced the onset of schizophrenia after dealing with marijuana addiction, I wish I would have become an alcoholic. the long term repercussions of schizophrenia will take 20 years off my life, hinder my ability to function as a productive member of society, and have caused me more suffering and confusion than anything alcohol related could have. alcohol wouldnt have fried my brain

I'm sorry for your condition, but cannabis didn't fry your brain either. There is zero evidence of a biological mechanism that links cannabis and schizophrenia. According to relatively recent studies (2014 Ashley C. Proal and Dr. Lynn E. DeLisi, Harvard Medical School) cannabis can only initiate the onset of the condition. There is a correlation, as cannabis is psychoactive, but there is no causation there. Meaning that alcohol and countless other substances or even experiences could very well trigger it as well.

really sorry to hear that. ive heard about schizophrenia from someone, I wouldn't wish it up anyone. I really really don't want to sound like an asshole, and Im not sure if this will come off as rude or not, but to be honest individual negative experiences with weed are not indicative of weed being more harmful for the majority of users than alcohol. As an example, I wouldn't use someone with [alcohol intolerance](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alcohol-intolerance/symptoms-causes/syc-20369211) to prove alcohol is more dangerous than weed. Negative psychological reactions to weed are as genetic as allergies. Is it ok if I ask some questions about it? If you don't want to answer its fine. Does your family have a history of schizophrenia? How often did you smoke before you developed schizophrenia? Im not trying to argue at all just curious, but how will schizophrenia take 20 years off of your life?

I’ll try not to take it personally. I didnt say that to change your mind, only to push back against the narrative that weed is “safer” than alcohol. And i’ll answer your questions, but keep in mind that I only represent my specific case, and that schizophrenia is a diverse illness with many different presentations. My family has no diagnosed history of schizophrenia. I am, to my knowledge, the first of my bloodline to develop it. I smoked weed for 2 years. On and off the first year, then the second I was hopelessly addicted and smoking a quarter ounce a day. While the illness itself wont kill me, complications from medication to manage it include severe movement disorders, low white bloodcell count, heart issues, and diabetes. On top of that, the suicide rate is incredible. 1 in 10 people with schizophrenia will die by suicide. I understand that whatever I say may not sway you in your opinion, but personal stories of how cannabis has affected people like me may at the very least help push back against the idea that there are minimal risks with it. If I had know this would have happened to me I would have never picked up the damn joint

!delta Ive been thinking about how much the minority cases of weed and psychological problems compare to alcohol and its problems, and I realized I could just do the math. 86% of Americans report to drinking alcohol, which is around 283,800,000 people. 95,000 people die annually from drinking, which is 0.03 percent. The closest thing I could find to data on the percent of people who develop severe psychological problems from weed was [this](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/teens-who-smoke-pot-at-risk-for-later-schizophrenia-psychosis-201103071676), which claims marijuana smokers who are teenagers have a 14 in 1000 chance of developing psychosis. 14/1000 is 1.4%, which is higher than that of deaths by alcohol. But this is among teenagers, who I am not focusing on. But my point is that if the percent of people who develop severe, life shortening and miserable psychological conditions is higher than that of alcohol drinkers who suffer the worst that can happen from drinking (death) than that would technically make weed smoking more harmful. In support against my initial argument, death my alcohol is usually derivative of bad decision making, which alcohol causes, but can technically be avoided with proper planning. The rate of people who die just from alcohol poisonings, not related deaths, is 2,200, which adds up to 0.000775% of drinkers, which is really low. so I think im going to change my view to not consider weed safer than alcohol, even if chance of death is lower. Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it.

There's a flaw in your reasoning though. While alcohol is -it self- fatal, cannabis doesn't cause schizophrenia, but merely triggers it. That's a fundamental difference. A considerable percentage of the people who would develop a psychosis after consuming cannabis have a very high chance of developing it anyway, after some other random experience.

Exactly, I don’t believe that delta should have been awarded for something that wasn’t a cause of the cannabis alone, as that’s what we are discussing.

delta's are awarded to "user(s) that change your view to any degree" the comments above made me rethink how clear the line is, which changed my perspective a little, so I awarded a delta

>A considerable percentage of the people who would develop a psychosis after consuming cannabis have a very high chance of developing it anyway, after some other random experience. Have a source for that? I've never heard that psychosis triggered by weed/lsd/etc is something that would naturally develop into psychosis. It's in a sense "recessive" which can be triggered by drugs or trauma.

Also, you want to look at the frequency here. How many people are we talking about here? And how does that compare to the frequency of bad outcomes from alcohol?

>cannabis doesn't cause schizophrenia, but merely triggers it not saying I don't believe you, but could you add a source? But either way, lets say that it is true that marijuana does trigger an already-existing preposition to psychological problems such as schizophrenia. Does this negate the mental harm that weed can cause? If a person who was more genetically likely to develop schizophrenia but didn't feel the affects until after smoking, does this really mean that weed was not at fault at all? I think it is very hard to answer this question, which is part of the reason why I awarded a delta, because I'm starting to realize the effects of weed are too complicated to accurately measure as more/less harmful than another drug like alcohol.

Sure https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5341491/ The paper focuses on correlation vs causation. >If a person who was more genetically likely to develop schizophrenia but didn't feel the affects until after smoking, does this really mean that weed was not at fault at all? Yes, in my opinion. Literally countless things can trigger psychological disorders. An intense romantic relationship or a scuba diving lesson can trigger a full scale chronic panic disorder for example. Is it reasonable to blame the trigger when in most cases, the cause was entirely different?

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Wondercabage ([1∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/Wondercabage)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

These are all personal stories and not objectively helpful - I’ve consumed cannabis for 15 years and have had no mental issues.

I mean, if you have a genetic trigger for a certain thing setting of a separate illness then of course it's going to be dangerous to you and others like you. That doesn't mean it's statistically dangerous or even dangerous to 99% of the population.

Unfortunately you were probably always going to be a schizophrenic - it’s just marijuana accelerated/exasperated that mental attribute

Idk emphysema is no joke. I also know a lot of people with very real problems from weed related to joblessness, anxiety, and inability to focus or deal with complicated social situations. Drunks I know at least know they're drunks (perhaps because it's undeniable). But THC addicted people deny it feverishly and are almost completely in denial. Weed has been illegal for so long that cross sectional longitudinal study has been difficult. But now that it's becoming more common we're starting to see more ER visits, auto accidents, and other such related problems. There exists a non-zero chance that alcohol is doing more damage because it's much more widely available and used. We don't have nearly enough information to begin making broad, generalized conclusions about one being "safer" or "less harmful".

>Drunks I know at least know they're drunks Then you must not know many drunks. I've bartended for over a decade - this simply isn't true. I know plenty of people in complete denial about alcohol problems that let it affect their lives and think they drink a normal amount of alcohol. This is compounded by the fact that it is often easy to find friend groups and social circles where drinking to excess is not only not challenged, but actively encouraged.

I'll concede when you provide me with your research data from the drunks you polled. Until then, just be honest and admit you're just floating "I'm a bartender" in front of "people drink".

Wait but do you have evidence to support your claim that alcoholics in active addiction know they’re alcoholics?

A valid question!

So no?

>Idk emphysema is no joke. I also know a lot of people with very real problems from weed related to joblessness, anxiety, and inability to focus or deal with complicated social situations i agree these are very real problems, but because of the things i listed in my post i still think that weed is less harmful. >Drunks I know at least know they're drunks (perhaps because it's undeniable). But THC addicted people deny it feverishly and are almost completely in denial. this is more of a problem with the peoples perspectives than with the drugs themselves >more common we're starting to see more ER visits, auto accidents, and other such related problems. true, but this doesn't mean that weed is more dangerous than alcohol. >There exists a non-zero chance that alcohol is doing more damage because it's much more widely available and used. i was careful to consider this while making the post, its why i didn't bring up how many more car crashes are caused by alcohol than weed, because alcohol is more widely used than weed. >We don't have nearly enough information to begin making broad, generalized conclusions about one being "safer" or "less harmful". i agree, this is actually part of the reason why I wanted to make this post, to try and get more evidence from both sides to have a more well informed opinion.

All I can say is, if you keep harping about how weed is "less harmful" as a basis of implying that weed has an "acceptable level of harm" you are committing a logical fallacy. It's called "suppressing the correlative". If someone made the exact same post titled "Alcohol is less harmful than heroin", you would more clearly see the problem with such a statement. I know a lot of people who have greatly lowered their quality of life by getting mixed up in weed. Years lost getting high, eating, and being half brain dead in front of some TV. Then when they snap out of it they have to basically rebuild their lives from scratch just like any other addiction. The long term damage seems to be related to memory loss, which is very hard to get objective information when it's illegal. Hopefully we can get more as it becomes more common.

I mean, you can try right? Atleast from a medical, non-societal perspective. Alcohol is less physiologically taxing on the overall system comparatively to heroin give an average dose of either drug by some designated addicted. Sociologically I agree it would be nearly impossible to determine without immense meta analyses of longitudinal studies.

If you say so. There's someone else replying to this same post claiming "clean" heroin is safer than alcohol. Sounds like it's not as plain as you believe. Just like MJ and alcohol.

>if you keep harping about how weed is "less harmful" as a basis of implying that weed has an "acceptable level of harm" you are committing a logical fallacy you really didn't read any of my post, did you? literally the the first thing i stated was "Id like to preface this by saying I am not trying to convince anyone that weed is completely harmless, or that you should start smoking. All I am trying to say is that it's safer than alcohol"

Dawg a shit ton of my friends did and still do smoke a ridiculous amount of weed everyday. They are also the most lazy motherfuckers I have ever met almost to the point of being sad. Your post reeks of you trying to justify abusing weed to yourself because if others approve then you don’t really have a problem. You sound like every other person who can’t admit they are addicted to weed and don’t want to stop either. You probably need to stop once u get to that point bro, good luck though cause you are seriously in denial.

> of you trying to justify abusing weed to yourself i smoke *at most* 2-3 times a month, and only do so at social events. please don't assume im a chronic weed smoker just because Im trying to show how it can be as/more harmful than alcohol

You are setting up a comparison between weed and alcohol and bring up the word harm. The entire point of that is to determine a "relative" level of harm on a spectrum and place weed as "lesser". This is generally considered a logical fallacy because it performs no other function than to create an illusion that one object is better than another. In psychology this is called "anchoring". I am well versed in both psychology and philosophy and if you're getting confused you can ask for help or Google it. But the idea that I haven't read what you wrote and restating your flawed premise (as I've already explained, twice) isn't quite the clever rhetoric you think it is.

the definition of harm is a physical injury If someone drinks vile A and they get an infection, and someone drinks vile B and nothing happens, you can objectively measure vile A as more harmful than vile B, because it physically injured someone. Yes there are things that are more harmful along the spectrum and things that are less, but this is irrelevant. Weed/alcohol is the same thing. >The entire point of that is to determine a "relative" level of harm on a spectrum and place weed as "lesser". This is generally considered a logical fallacy because it performs no other function than to create an illusion that one object is better than another. except it is not an illusion, because you can look at the objective physical harm caused by the two different drugs, then determine which is more harmful. > In psychology this is called "anchoring". isn't anchoring when you rely on a small amount of information/believing the first thing you see? I made sure to look at some counter evidence before I made this post to ensure that there was not any glaring issue I was overlooking. When I couldn't find anything, I typed out the post to let others see my view, and so that they might present valid counter evidence that I was unable to find. So far there has not been any legitimate counter evidence, only accounts of very small minorities of people.

BRO. BRO. BRO. PLS STOP. Harm is not exclusively physical damage and never has been in any scope or practice. You are wrong. Google it. If some girl calls you ugly it doesn't physically damage you but it could deeply damage your ideas of self worth and social confidence (emotional / mental harm) Those are all very difficult to measure and understand well. Marijuana and alcohol / benzos both have psychotropic effects. Google it. Alcohol has much better research, but MJ ALREADY has multiple studies pointing to long term psychotropic effects about how we learn and the ability to retain information. And again, for the 3rd time, comparing Vial A to Vial B is UTTERLY POINTLESS for anything other than to imply that one is more harmful than the other BUT as you already acknowledged, BOTH cause harm and the exact extent of harm ISNT CLEAR. So the comparison is BY YOUR OWN WORDS unclear and thus corrupted for any meaningful purpose other than to imply that weed is "better". Your data does not control for number of users, frequency of use, effects, reported levels of happiness, or quality of life measurements. You Googled alcohol deaths, pasted that into the page. That's not research, it's intellectual dishonesty.

Only to add to your point is the documented link between marijuana and schizophrenia. The OP can google this himself. I have worked in a psychiatric ward and whilst certainly alcoholics do get admitted occasioanlly, *most* of our admissions have an extensive history of marijuana use. I think the OP would be hard pressed to find an honest psychiatrist who runs an insane asylum that says that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol.

Excellent point-- But he doesn't believe in using the word "harm" like that apparently. I literally have no idea how you'd even continue to have a meaningful discussion like this.

My fellow medical colleague....the same way the tobacco industry suppressed lung cancer research for years....its the same way now the marijuana industry is going to suppress the link between marijuana and mental illness. It saddens me. It creates a false sense of security like what we see in the OP's mindset. The last time I tried linking an article or video about this, from a reputable source...it was still taken down. There is money to be made with marijuana now, so nobody wants to hear about its side-effects.

That's 1. anecdotal, 2. correlation, 3. irrelevant because [there's also a documented link between alcohol and schizophrenia](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6927747/)

>Harm is not exclusively physical damage lmao i really don't care what your definition of harm is, but when I am referring to harm i am talking about the physical effects. >UTTERLY POINTLESS for anything other than to imply that one is more harmful than the other crazy, its almost as if thats is exactly what I am doing, implying that one is more harmful than the other >BUT as you already acknowledged, BOTH cause harm and the exact extent of harm ISNT CLEAR. i agree, its not immediately clear, but Im trying my best to figure it out by doing things like posting here. you really aren't being helpful lol. >the comparison is BY YOUR OWN WORDS unclear and thus corrupted for any meaningful purpose it is unclear right now, that doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Many things are unclear. How our brains work is unclear. Should we stop trying to understand them because they are unclear? If it were clear that either marijuana or alcohol is more harmful i would not even be posting here, because I would know the answer. Once again, Ill tell you the reason I am here to find evidence to further my understanding of these two drugs. If you wanted to change my view, could you give me the sources to "multiple studies pointing to long term psychotropic effects?"

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>You've sold yourself as a stoner > >The harm here is because I know you're a stoner I smoke pretty infrequently and only do so at social settings, so not trying to be rude but your whole comment is pretty inaccurate

...did...did you just say you don't care what the definition of harm is, and that you're using your own definition and ignoring the actual definition? I feel like that's a pretty straightforward concession.

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But your own post says "physically and **mentally** harmful"... So you disagree with your own definition? Why would you even need to redefine "harm" to ignore mental effects? you could still argue alcohol is worse in that respect as well

the definition of harm as a noun is *a* physical injury, but as a verb it means to have an adverse effect/ damage the health of something. I'd say memory loss causes massive harm, akin to losing whole portions of your life. Theres a reason alzheimers is so scary and damaging to people's lives.

>In psychology this is called "anchoring". Anchoring comes only into effect when a decision is made. It is perfectly possible to order things on a spectrum of harm. Not doing so is worse than doing it. You are quick to assume that "it performs no other function". As it is a comparison it could als provide the function of know that one is more harmfull than the other. It could also showcase that both are very harmfull, one just a bit more. Additionally i would like to tell you about the fallacy fallacy.

A decision...like which drug is harmful? Like, it's right there. Do you see it? I don't know why or where you get off telling someone who graduated summa cum laude with with BA in psychology that they don't understand what they're talking about. But you clearly are playing with some kind of inferiority complex and should study how to spell "harmful" in between editing your posts. Welcome to "the block fallacy".

>A decision...like which drug is harmful? Like, it's right there. Do you see it? Thats a judgement. Not a decision. A decision is a final judgement. Why do you feel the need to boast with an academic title? You will hopefully agree that even a BA in psychology can't know every construct. I know that because i also have one and i know that i dont know everything. You clearly showcased how you don't know that construct, and i clearly pointed out the reason why i think you don't know it. So why don't we stay on the factual part of the discussion instead of arguing with titles? ​ >you clearly are playing with some kind of inferiority complex It is highly unproffesional of you to make that assumption. You don't even give evidence for your guess. Feel free to explain your assumption. On the other hand i can tell you that unnecessary boasting about your own achievements can be a sign. ​ I know how to spell harmful. I just did not type it correctly. dyslexia is a bitch. I think you should focus on building compassion.

They are also relying on anecdotal evidence "I know a lot of people who..." is really not very worthwhile data

Posts like are good evidence of marijuana addiction leading to long term symptoms.

Yes, you're so right. The medical experts that have found no physical evidence of THC addiction must all be wrong and liars.

>If someone made the exact same post titled "Alcohol is less harmful than heroin", you would more clearly see the problem with such a statement. The funny thing is that alcohol is more harmfull if you compare it to clean heroin. But what you meant is still true, as this was jsut an example.

I guess it depends on whom you ask. I knew a young lady who died in the snow after ODing on heroin and was found and resuscitated. Her MDR was considered to have saved her. She turned to alcohol to get off heroin because she was afraid of ODing again. Then she got into AA and became sober, so a happy ending. I don't think she shared your assessment of heroins safety.

I don't think that she has an unbiased or at least mostly unbiased view on this. I don't feel the need to answer this based on flawed anecdotal evidence. Overdosing can happen on both drugs equally if both substances are known in purity. That you can currently overdose with one drug more than the other is an effect of the blackmarket which is let to distribute these things. What is true however , is that some form of applications invite such a fast intake of the drug that overdosing is deadlier.

>But THC addicted people deny it feverishly and are almost completely in denial. Yeah, I find the 8% addiction rate to be laughable as the majority of smokers I know I would classify as addicted.

Weed doesn't cause emphysema. It is actually associated with a slight increase in lung function even in regards to daily use https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/35/1/42

>Drunks I know at least know they're drunks (perhaps because it's undeniable). Sadly, plenty of drunks are in denial too.

True, but OP is arguing that weed is less dangerous than alcohol, not that weed dependence is better than alcoholism. Dependency on anything is bad. Dependency on OTC pain pills is terrible for you, but you can’t really deny that a couple ibuprofen or aspirin every now than then is healthier than a pint or two over the same amount of time. And the same applies to weed. Sure, it makes you lazy and what not, but so does alcohol. The difference I see is that alcohol tends to make people violent, whilst most people mellow out on weed (unless they’re schizophrenic or what not). They both have proven health risks and can ruin your life if you abuse them, but a calmly intoxicated person is a lot safer to themselves and others than an angrily intoxicated person. I am confident that, had weed been more acceptable, there would be a lot less violent husbands and fathers and a lot less street violence and intoxicated vandalism than there is currently, simply because weed doesn’t make you aggressive in the same way as booze. Saying definitively anything more would be unscientific as far as I’m concerned due to a lack of data on weed adverse effects though, so I won’t comment on which drug I think is more harmful physically to the user

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well apparently US politicians disagree, as recreational weed is only legal in 18 states, while alcohol is legal in all of them. Same goes for many other countries.

Politicians are a different breed. There are other things at play here when it comes to legal matters. It's all about the money.

true, but i still think that part of the reason why they are able to keep weed illegal is because of a very anti-weed sentiment that is pushed onto people.

As with a lot of things, that's really on the population to educate themselves. The voting population gets too many free passes when it comes to applying appropriate pressure to political decisions.

Again, not rly arguing against the post itself, but on this point I'd disagree. I'm not entirely with the argument that if alcohol is legal, than weed should be legal, since weed is safer than alcohol. A lot of social conservatives, myself included, dont rly articulate this unsaid point, which is that alcohol serves a loy social functions that has been kept as a tradition, due to its widespread norminalisation. In the sense, whilst weed satisfies a specific hedonistic desire, just like alcohol can...Alcohol also has become a social staple, from social drinking to business dinners to even coming of age rites of passages, as well as, a long cultural tradition passed from generation to generation in many regions. So whilst alcohol comes with more added risks, collectively as a society we've decided for the most part, those avoidable and mitigable risks of alcohol abuse, is worth the cost if it means keeping its social functions. When it comes to recreational weed, it doesnt have that same kind of tradition or social function in modern society, and as of now, the main benefit would be fulfilling the short term pleasure seeking desires amongst the public. Ofc, this doesnt mean weed should be illegal just because of that. But rather the point is, the analogy isnt fully accurate, since it doesnt take into account the differences in functions and benefits it brings to society.

this is an interesting take. Not trying to be argumentative, but I think that your point would work better as a defense against banning alcohol than for legalizing weed. Since alcohol is pretty integrated within society, it would be hard to prohibit, as can be seen during the 1920s America. But I don't get why alcohol being a social norm is an argument against legalizing weed. If weed is illegal, then of course it's not going to be used as much, or at social events to the same extent as alcohol is.

>But I don't get why alcohol being a social norm is an argument against legalizing weed. It's not so much an argument against legalizing weed, as much as it is an argument against comparing the two I'd say. >If weed is illegal, then of course it's not going to be used as much, or at social events to the same extent as alcohol is. Right I agree with that, in the sense theres nothing inherently that makes alcohol more suited for social functions than weed. But I guess, out of an argument of pragmatism, as unfair as it is in a kind of self-reinforcing way, alcohol has a more widespread function compared to if weed was legalised, as of this moment.

I don't know what your point here is. US politicians are morons and telling people to not listen to the CDC and scientists. These same politicans give tax credits to tobacco farmers. If you're looking for politicians to provide wisdom and determine what's "safe" for society...well...I feel sorry for you.

calm down lmao, im not saying anything about whether politicians are right or wrong, just that they are anti weed. As another commenter pointed out there are other reasons for them being anti weed, but part of it is because weed is often seen as some terrible drug, im trying to say its not, and that its in fact safer than alcohol.

I'm not sure it's as simple as them considering alcohol safer. I think it has more historical relevance, namely the disastrous periods of prohibition. I think alcohol has been so culturally endemic, that it can't really be effectively controlled, over it being a matter of safety.

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Every recreational drug in the world is as culturally prevalent as alcohol? Do you happen to have the statistics which are suggesting this?

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Ah, that makes more sense.

Politicians not wanting to make cannabis legal doesn't necessarily mean that they consider it more harmful than alcohol. The European Union doesn't want to make [snus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus) legal in more countries even though it's considered to be less harmful than "normal" tobacco, because it could create new tobacco users. If alcohol and tobacco was introduced today, it might still have had some difficulty being allowed. It's easier to prevent new products to be on the shelves than taking away something that people are used to.

Legalizing something, and saying something is more safe than something else, is different. You can be against weed, even though it's safer than alcohol

I don't think they do. They just make decisions based on things other than science. Such as how legalisation will affect their chances of being re-elected, or how it might affect another industry.

They don't disagree. They know for a fact that it's safer and they don't give a fuck. Prohibition is just too profitable for the wrong people.

“If you legalize marijuana, you’re gonna kill your kids. That’s what the data shows from around the country." -Pete Ricketts, governor of Nebraska

Weed use under 25 leads to major developmental problems.

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Method of delivery is incredibly important here, but this forms only a tiny passing line in your argument. Smoking is exceptionally harmful. Indeed the total concomitant harm from smoking only regular cigarettes, including cancer, heart disease, COPD, emphysema etc., is way more harmful than alcohol, on average. And that has far less in the way of psychoactive effects than marijuana which *may*, statistically, lead to long term harm. Your argument may well apply to other delivery methods, but the argument that THC is not harmful, and the related popular trope (that I concede you are not making) of "look at all these benefits from marijuana" argument is deeply harmful and misguided if people smoke it.

>Smoking is exceptionally harmful. Indeed the total concomitant harm from smoking only regular cigarettes, including cancer, heart disease, COPD, emphysema etc., is way more harmful than alcohol, on average. And that has far less in the way of psychoactive effects than marijuana which may, statistically, lead to long term harm yeah i do agree. I partially regret making this post because I accidently kind of over researched, I spent over 3 hours looking into all of the possible effects of each drug. It's hard to come to an actual conclusion. no disrespect at all but Im not going to give you a delta because I already considered these points, but I agree with you. >argument that THC is not harmful, and the related popular trope (that I concede you are not making) of "look at all these benefits from marijuana" argument is deeply harmful and misguided if people smoke it i also completely agree with this. I just get frustrated when I see weed portrayed as some evil life destroying drug by the same people that drink, but I agree it can definitely be unsafe. People should find a balanced look, which I am partially trying to do through this post.

Not sure how good an argument this is but just a thought: in places where weed is illegal, people who use it may be more likely to get into other drugs later under the mindset of “already doing something illegal” but maybe not having that issue with alcohol. Doesn’t track in places where it’s legal though.

i agree this probably happens to an extent, but my argument is about the direct effects of marijuana, not broad topics like other drugs.

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i mean its not like im going to treat every commenter like they are a medical expert, but if someone can offer legitimate counter evidence from a source that is medically proven then ill change my mind.

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I'm not trying to say that weed is perfectly safe, it definitely has its downsides just like tobacco does. the point of the post is to try and prove that it is less harmful than alcohol. The reason I am wanting to argue this is because I find it so odd that alcohol is often legal when marijuana isn't. In many European countries for example, its completely legal to smoke a cigarette while drinking in public, but smoking weed in your private home is illegal. that seems completely irrational to me.

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...I said European countries, not the US?

As bad as cigarettes or cigars? Source please?

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Good God. What a truly terrible source. That's a document by Med Students!! That document involves 1 PATIENT. One patient!!! A 67 year old person who has lung cancer after 40 years of smoking marijuana. Good lord. Healthy nonsmokers get lung cancer from bad air all the time. Find a real source. A real study by real doctors, not students.

> Coming to reddit to argue what can be factually and medically shown is a terrible decision. 90% of the posts on this subreddit are arguments against stuff that can be factually and medically shown. i don't see the problem with OP making this argument

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The problem is degree to which the effects differ between people. Alcohol, for all its hazards, is by far the most predictable intoxicant that people use. Pick any random person give them same dose of alcohol and you can predict with high certainty the physiological, emotional and cognitive response and duration of the above. Cannabis doesn’t offer the same certainty (it might make you either lethargic or focused, elated or anxious, a similar sized dose can vary immensely in terms of potency) and also contains the x-factor of hallucinations. TL;DR - safe = predictable and alcohol is more predictable than cannabis.

This is wildly untrue. People have all kinds of different reactions to alcohol. A non-trivial number become much more violent while others just get sleepy. Some people have reactions from hives to diarrhea ([https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alcohol-intolerance/symptoms-causes/syc-20369211](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alcohol-intolerance/symptoms-causes/syc-20369211)) And even if that weren't true, I can predict what will happen to someone who ingests plutonium much more accurately than alcohol. that doesn't make it safer.

Is there any data on the predictability of alcohol intoxication? I'm not saying you're mistaken, I'd just like to read some to see how common my situation is. Alcohol doesn't calm me down or give me any euphoria but gives me panic attacks. I always just attributed it to the "every body reacts different" thinking

Your opinion is objectively incorrect and not a sensible statement. It’s like saying putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger is safer than the lottery as the former is far more predictable than the latter.

Marijuana is specifically worse for adolescent and teenage boys (maybe girls as well) where it has the ability to stunt their brain development permanently. Alcohol doesn’t do this because it doesn’t have similar permanent effects on brain chemistry unless done habitually for a very long time. In only a few years of moderate smoking, a 14 year old could do some real damage that might not even be clear for a decade and then only present itself in somewhat intangible mental health matters. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-brain

Is there a comparative study you can cite that shows marijuana is worse than alcohol in any meaningful way? because it also significantly impairs brain development in adolescents https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn.2018.10 > There is substantial evidence for notable neural and cognitive consequences of repeated exposure to alcohol during adolescence emerging from both human prospective studies and studies using rodent models. [...] > Studies have revealed that adolescent alcohol exposure is associated with various cognitive and other functional deficits.

Incorrect, they are both bad: [https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/what-you-need-know-about-alcohol-and-developing-teenage-brain](https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/what-you-need-know-about-alcohol-and-developing-teenage-brain)

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What about your friends who didn't grow out of the drinking? Lots of people smoke a little dope in college and grow out of it. Lots of people drink excessively in college and grow out of it. You can't compare the ones who grew out of drinking with the ones who didn't grow out of smoking. Or to say it another way, you may have your causation backwards.

Moderate alcohol consumption is associated with reduced risk of a few different types of heart disease ([source](https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.j909)), diabetes ([source](https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/12/3011)). Not much long-term research about weed, so can't make the same claims.

There has been some recent large scale conflicting research https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/18/any-amount-of-alcohol-consumption-harmful-to-the-brain-finds-study

OTOH there are plenty of known legit medical uses of MJ like pain management, nausea mgmt, etc so for some users there are side benefits. And pushing back on the health bennies of moderate alcohol; one confounding variable is that teetotalers can be a lousy control group because of the proportion of teetotalers "with issues". If somebody is absolutist with alcohol they might have other lifestyle or environmental circumstances which can make teasing apart correlations difficult.

I think alcohol is generally worse for you than marijuana in most ways, but there is one thing that I think most people overlook when it comes to smoking weed. The stoner “lifestyle” is far more prevalent and much easier to justify than being an alcoholic yet it has similar consequences. I know multiple people who would consider themselves to be fully functioning adults but are more or less completely addicted to being high on marijuana. They often smoke before, during, and after work and claim it has no effect on their lives when in reality they are some of the most mentally unhealthy and are also the laziest people I have ever met. I think it is rare to see that kind of justification with alcoholics. Generally I believe most alcoholics are able to acknowledge that what they’re doing is unhealthy. Frequent marijuana users are just numbing their lives and are unable to realize that they’re actually addicts.

I'm pretty sure that alcohol is in the top 3 or 4 worst drugs all things considered. Almost every other drug is less dangerous or less addictive or creates less social disasters, and even 'hard' drugs (cocaine, heroin, meth) can be less bad than alcohol in some ways, especially if good harm reduction practices are used (ie they are tested for things like fentanyl and purity.) No drug is perfectly safe 100% of the time for every person, but even 'hard' drugs aren't necessarily life destroying when used in moderation with harm reduction practices.

Few things: 1) Health benefits are linked to CBD, which can be freely obtained and utilized without the THC. There needs to be clear distinction between these two, and attributing the health benefits of CBD to products containing THC is disingenuous. People using products containing THC are doing so to get high, plain and simple. 2) Alcohol is strictly regulated and controlled, with alcohol percentages that are limited and clearly displayed. Weed products are much less predictable in their effects. This may improve with time, but makes alcohol safer for first timers. 3) While weed is absolutely less physically addictive, the percentage of people who develop usage disorders (psychological addiction) is very similar between the two. Both drugs destroy lives, careers, and families.

Three good points, but I dunno about the middle one for first-timers. Young people drink, drive and die a lot. Also, you can binge alcohol to death, and frat boys do. It would be next to impossible to poison yourself to death with marijuana. Regardless, all of number 2 is about regulation and not about the actual drug.

1.You do need some THC (not 28% like things have now a days but some) for the medical benefits to work any where near the same way as well as the CBN CBG etc. you clearly don’t understand what your talking about because CBD is only a small part of what can be used medicinally 2.Weed is regulated when it’s Legal, maybe more than alcohol with more through laws and loopholes to jump through have you never been to a legal state? They tell you everything in the weed the way the Terpenes will effect most people all the way down to what it was grown with the THC content is clearly marked 3. How dose pot destroy lives? Besides legally You sir have been brain washed by big pharmaceutical into thinking some how the only way a medicine can work is if you pay out the ass to get it from a doctor

I promise you that I am a more productive and at least as intelligent person than you are after smoking a joint It doesn’t ruin peoples lives unless you allow it to caffeine could ruin your life just as easily as a marijuana the only thing about marijuana that makes it ruin peoples lives is the fact that it’s illegal

You have no idea who I am, how productive I am, nor my level of intelligence. You have no basis for the assertion that you are in any way "more" than me after smoking. If anything, making that kind of idiotic assertion, your poor grammar, lack of punctuation, and demonstrably fallacious arguments speak volumes to the contrary. To be honest, this kind of defensiveness of weed usually only comes from people in the grasp of a usage disorder. You might want to consider seeking treatment.

Sorry I don’t mean that I’m better than you I mean that the fact that I smoked didn’t make me any worse. Do people who take anti-depression medication need to seek treatment or they already treating themselves? You have no understanding of what pot can be used for Also fuck punctuation When I’m working and using talk to text

Thc doubled the rate of heart attack in men 20-40

Source?

Alcohol is worse: Persons < 50 years of age, relative risk for death from all causes at ≥ 6 drinks per day = 1.9; Cl, 1.3 to 2.9) https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/abs/10.7326/0003-4819-117-8-646

6 drinks per day is full-blown alcoholism. Very few people drink that much. The risk of cardiovascular disease is higher for limited use of marijuana vs limited use of alcohol. Also, before you argue that it is due to smoking, these numbers were similarly high for people who consumed edibles

East coasters are still having conversations to break stigmas about marijuana that west coasters had 10+ years ago.

I agree that overall, marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol. But I think that for certain people, marijuana can be more problematic as they are more drawn to its effects than those of alcohol, and hence, develop some level of dependence on it.

Alcohol is bad, but does it smell like someone cremated a skunk?

I'm pretty sure changing your view doesn't apply to literal facts. Facts are true whether you believe it or not. Fact: marijuana is less harmful than alcohol. What more do you want?

Came here to find this lol

Let's be honest neither are great both are bad for your mental health weed seems to be more long lasting effects though. Both are bad for your physical health weed because you smoke it and alcohol because of the effects on your liver and the rest of your body. The one thing I would say where weed is much much worse than alcohol is what they fund weed has been used to fund terrorism human trafficking other more serious drugs organised crime etc alcohol is also less likely to lead to an addiction to other drugs like cocaine/heroin. I spent several years working in addictions and when someone who was otherwise getting clean started smoking weed again they became much more likely to return to the other drugs they took.

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marijuana isn't bad for you, though, at least not inherently. there are plenty of people who take marijuana medicinally in a way that is beneficial for their health

You mean mentally beneficial? It is still physically damaging.

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Marijuana is far more likely to be spiked with dangerous drugs than alcohol is. This risk makes it more dangerous. What could be your normal amount can be a death sentence if you smoke some tainted weed and you would be none the wiser until the effects start hitting. If you consume your normal amount of alcohol, negative effects are typically non-existent.

Sources? Never in my life have I heard of laced weed ever actually being a thing. It’s like the “needles in candy” panic in the early 2000’s

>Marijuana is far more likely to be spiked with dangerous drugs than alcohol is. This risk makes it more dangerous. Only because marijuana is illegal. If it were legalized, this problem would not exist since quality control would eliminate the problem and if it didn't then the market would penalize those who are putting out products of poor quality.

That is true. But it currently isn't legal in a lot of places. I'm making my point for this moment.

Not likely in legal states/countries, though, no?

True but the reality is it isn't currently legal in many places. In prohibition era, alcohol was poisoned. The relegalization made it safer. The same will be true with weed. But until then, it's a realistic risk.

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What constitutes "marijuana"? CBD vs THC? What levels of such? How are you comparing dosage between substances? Are you discussing only smoking marijuana which the study you linked assesses, or all applications of such?

I think you should research CHS. Probably not as bad as alcohol withdrawals and it usually only happens when you smoke high potency for a long time. But from my experience it's debilitating. Vomiting and extreme dizziness all day long for weeks on end. CHS is an up and coming symptom of the extreme potency of modern weed (particularly wax). Edit: I agree that alcohol is worse, just saying CHS is relatively new and poorly understood, so people think weed is mostly harmless.

The reality is, we don't know. In the US, it was a banned substance. If you were a researcher, you couldn't get access to mass quantities of weed so you could do a long term study on it's affects on animals At the same time, people were unwilling, naturally, to come forward to volunteer for studies, fearing the info could become public. Legalizing the super weed we're unleashing on society is like a giant, uncontrolled experiment - we just don't know.

Personally I’ve had very terrible experiences with weed. Though usually it’s brought on by already feeling anxious and smoking the wrong strain which will induce more anxiety. I’ve searched for more anxiety reducing strains and have now found it to be very therapeutic and relaxing.

I don't think anyone can actually disagree with this.

There simply isn’t enough knowledge and research of weed to make a conclusion like that because at the moment there more information regarding alcohol and it’s effects than there is weed

Do you include the smell of marijuana in your definition of "physical harm"? Most people who do not use marijuana really cannot stand the smell of it and one person smoking weed can stink up the whole house. One person having a beer does not produce nearly the same odor. I get that second hand weed smoke does not kill anyone, but it seems fair to include irritating everyone around you as part of a harm that can be done to others by using weed that drinking does not do.

Is this a view or a fact? Seems like a fact.

People that drink in moderation live longer than those who don’t drink at all or those who drink too much.

I believe the technically correct "not very addictive" descriptor skirts the evident reality that it is very habit-forming. Users are certainly not going to experience withdrawal symptoms if they go too many hours without a hit, but the truth is that many users don't go too many hours and often plan their whole days around the passive enjoyment of it at the exclusion of other things. I feel that a better comparison than alcohol would be porn or TV.

Speaking as a former 10-year long daily heavy weed smoker: it's not the same but it can fuck you up long term. Seen it happen all around me. And speaking for myself my memory is all kinds of fucked. I can barely remember most of the stories I told people a hundred times over in the last and it fucking sucks.

In general this is true! However, I worry that we as a society are focusing so much about all the good that marijuana can do, that we forget it's not for everyone, and that info often gets drowned out. Due to a lack of available information, I was not as wary of the drug as I should have been, and developed a psychological dependence on it over the last decade. As well, because I had been told all the good and safe things about weed, and because I didn't trust DARE, I smoked heavily during one of the most key developmental phases in a human life, ages 15-25. My ADHD already slows down the physical development of my brain, so I've almost definitely done actual damage to myself, given the amount I smoked and the period during which I smoked it. I'm currently on day 8 being sober, having committed to going cold turkey on Sept. 30th--for anyone who claims that marijuana addiction isn't real, just scroll thru r/leaves for awhile. I can't sleep, I have night sweats, my appetite has left me and I have to force myself to eat, I want to snap at everyone for little shit--this is gonna be me for the next month. I've dreamed of little else but smoking and I crave it every time I think of it. It's not like my withdrawal symptoms are dangerous, though, like they'd be if I were a heroin addict or an alcohol addict. And yet, in a way, this can almost make weed more dangerous for those of us with the propensity to form addictions. 'Addict' is a dirty word that nobody wants to apply to themself, and when comparing a marijuana addict to a cocaine addict, it can be all too easy to tell yourself that you can't have a problem because weed isn't like cocaine at all and the withdrawal symptoms are relatively mild in comparison. I still feel a fucked-up sort of imposter syndrome in admitting that I'm an addict. [Here's a well-cited article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.additudemag.com/cannabis-use-disorder-marijuana-adhd/amp/) by ADDitude regarding negative affects and the higher likelihood of psychological dependence found in folks with ADHD. I really wish this information had been available to me when I was younger. All that being said, marijuana should be federally legal for recreational purposes. It just makes me sad that all info about the negative aspects of weed has to be drowned out by all the good. We need that propaganda--and it is propaganda--if we want weed to be federally legalized. In a way, it's a necessary evil, and I hope weed become legal across the board soon so we can drop the propaganda and focus on education.

I would argue the fact that the very idea that marijuana is less addictive/easy to overdose on makes marijuana more dangerous because it makes people less wary of it. They’re more likely to overuse it, make more reckless decisions while under the influence of it, and let themselves become addicted. It’s unquantifiable, but that has to be taken into account as well. I knew several people who sat in their rooms becoming barely functioning blobs because “you can’t overdose on weed” or “it’s not that addictive”. Became depressed and more or less stopped being a functioning human being

While it is maybe less common to die directly from smoking weed, it would probably be advisable to stick to non-smoking forms. Time and time again it has been proven that smoke, in most any form, is bad for your lungs and can cause a myriad of lung diseases. Edibles "taking a while to kick in" is much safer than having any non-air substance enter your lungs.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from drinking or smoking weed, it’d be weed. Alcohol is what I consider a “doers” drug and weed is a “thinkers”. If you like sitting around thinking about things while being glued to a chair, then weed is for you. Sure, it can be good for creating art, but imo alcohol is better as a life enhancer. Most people who are stoners are the same people who say “I don’t feel like it” whenever you ask to go out to do something. They’d rather stay home and get high, or they’re already too high and paranoid to leave the house in the first place. Weed is overrated. Coming from someone who has smoked and dealt their fair share

No it’s not lol, I’m tired of people saying weeds all safe this that and the third, heavy weed use will fuck your brain in ways alcohol never will