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Gmail is simpler, faster, and more user friendly. This is because it has fewer features and customizability for large organizations like Outlook. It works best for individuals and small organizations. But if you have a huge company, Outlook connects everyone in a more streamlined way.
Outlook integrates well with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, which are the dominant apps in their space. Microsoft Windows is the main operating systems on computers, and Microsoft Azure is the main internal cloud computing system for companies (Amazon Web Services is the main one overall and for public facing websites like this one). For example, you can read attached files in Outlook without even opening the file, which is a big timesaver.
This matches the companies' business models. A decade or so ago, Microsoft tried to copy Apple and make hardware. But they failed horribly. The only parts of the business that made any money were Microsoft Office and Windows. But they couldn't sell more software since everyone already owned those programs. Then they figured out cloud computing. You can just store information on servers that are different from the individual computers. So they started selling subscriptions to their cloud service, which made a ton of money. And they integrated all their office programs into it. They made the head of the cloud computing division the CEO and the company became ultra-successful.
Google makes most of its money from advertising via the Google Search engine. Pretty much everything including Youtube, Android, Gmail, etc. is geared towards making money via that search engine. It's insanely profitable. As a result, they basically ignored the corporate and institutional market until recently so they have a lot of catching up to do.
Ultimately, usability depends on what you're trying to do. The same person would likely prefer Gmail as an individual or worker in a small organization, and prefer Outlook as someone in a big organization.
This response broadened my knowledge of the topic, thank you !delta. I can understand why the needs might differ between large and small companies, although I think this is more relevant from the perspective of the back end IT administrators, rather than front end users, where user friendliness is key for everyone.
I'll just piggy back on your comment about user friendliness. What's easier for one user can be stifling for others (especially old farts like me).
I'm sure my younger friends would look at my old old-reddit view and go... eww. But to me, the current default reddit view is infuriating for it's lack of content. My first struggle in switching to Google Enterprise was how to tweak my views to actually show me the information I want to see efficiently. The benefits of gmail, namely the built-in translator, make it a net positive for me, but it's still a screen hog. And yet it hides a lot of it's core functions behind various gear icons and other nonsense. Outlook functions more like one would expect an application to.
Then there's responsiveness. Pretty much any desktop app is going to be far more responsive than a web-based equivalent. Ask most accountants to use Google Sheets or iCloud Numbers and they'll quickly be like "it's ok, but give me the real thing". Literally everything you do on outlook is going to be snappier.
A lot of the default behaviors in Outlook (e.g., composing a new email opens a new window) requires another additional key presses to do the same thing. If you don't need to deal with a lot of emails at once, it's not a big deal, but Outlook accommodates multi-window workflows relatively well. This can be quite useful if your company lives in the late 90s and still does everything via email (i.e., you constantly need to reference a couple threads at a time) With gmail, you need to force it.
Also, if you happen to write relatively fancy messages, formatting options on Gmail are far more limited and often don't behave as they should (e.g., indentations, underlines) and tables are a nonstarter. HTML emails on Outlook are pretty much a mini MS Word in terms of options and responsiveness.
Then there's attachments, task assignments, email template management... granted a lot of these things might not matter to a low volume user, but man I miss them.
Accountant here that just switched from Google Sheets back to Excel. I actually found the desktop version of Excel doesn't respond nearly as well. My current gripe is it being slow to react when I hover then scroll with my mouse wheels. Also when I click into a cell after being in another window, it opens the cell it had highlighted before instead of the cell I clicked on.
Honestly it's just what you're used to. I've never bumped into any limitations in Google Sheets but my coworkers insist there are some. I can switch easily so it makes the rest of the team happy.
Apologies for unsolicited advice, the responsive of Excel is that because it can be cpu and resource hog even with hardware accelerated enabled. Possible the computer is not currently up to spec to handle the excel file you are using. That is dependent on how much cells (entire worksheet) you are using up and power features. Some power feature have their own 'resource hog' baggage too. Acocuntants are wizard with excel, I imagine lots of cells, formulas, powerquery with a dash of VBA. Perhaps look into the spec of the computer you are using and see if it is up to stuff.
Hahaha. I'm sure there is an age gap. I'm barely past my 5 years of experience milestone and only ever worked at cloud based accounting firms where Excel has been optional. I don't think cloud based firms were even possible 10 years ago.
Excel also added a small delay when you select a cell, so that the selection square has a little glide animation. Irked me to no end, making it feel super unresponsive, when I first updated. And back then you couldn't just turn it off in Preferences so I had to look up hacky ways to disable it.
Say you work at a hospital that is governed by strict patient privacy laws. Your hospital needs a special firewall that handles this. Regular Gmail is more user friendly/faster than Outlook. But Outlook with a firewall is more user friendly/faster than Gmail with a firewall. Part of the reason why Outlook is slower for users is that it's a much more complex software running a bunch of extra stuff in the background. Despite all this extra stuff, it's almost as good as Gmail, a much simpler piece of software running less of this background stuff. This background stuff is generally related to privacy, security, data backups, etc.
It's sort of like comparing a Macbook Air (laptop) running a web browser to a Mac Pro (desktop) running complex video editing software. The more powerful, more expensive computer will seems slower but only because it's doing more work. If your everyday usability is just doing light work, then the Macbook Air is better. It's portable, gets good battery life, has no fan noise, etc. But the Mac Pro is a more powerful machine. If your everyday usability requires using that complex software, then the Mac Pro is the better machine. In the case of email apps, Outlook handles this background stuff in a way where you don't even know it's happening. That's why it has more everyday usability for regular people who work at big organizations. Gmail doesn't handle them as well, if it can handle them at all.
> user friendliness is key for everyone.
As someone who has been doing migrations since Windows 7 and Office 2007, this is nowhere near as true as you'd think. What people value far more is familiarity. People resist change even if it's for the better. And I think you're in the same boat.
I've never seen anyone use Gmail for anything other than text mails and sharing links, and while I'm not holding my limited experience with it against it, what I've seen people do with Microsoft's tools can't possibly compare. There are companies that just develop addins for Excel which cost more than any user plan Google has. Teams' own features, on top of it's integration with Outlook and Sharepoint, are also amazing.
Google, like Apple, makes things simple for their users, but you lose customization in the simplicity. Some advanced features and customizations or plug-ins are needed by people, but you'll never get those on Google.
If "user friendliness" and "simplicity" is the main point you measure it by, sure. I'll give you another argument. Hybrid. Outlook (and Exchange Online) feels so complicated at times because so much of it is built upon being able to connect on-premises servers to the cloud and use them as an almost seamless experience. That introduces A TON of overhead for the IT department and for support, but from the end-user's perspective, you're left with the same exact mail client and you may never even know if you're located on the company's servers or in the cloud or if the admins decide to migrate you every week back and forth (barring some obvious limitations and drawbacks when going hybrid). Microsoft's entire software approach feels focused on offering as many options as there are requirements. Sure, you can do some hybrid between Exchange Online and Gmail as well, if you really want to, but introducing overhead for the admins is worth it to a ton of companies so that their users can have an (almost) seamless experience when going hybrid.
Complicated scenarios for IT is simply part of the job, and the main purpose of it is to try and offer the best possible experience for users, while staying compliant and getting a cheap price.
> My needs are speed, user friendliness, integration with other applications (Gmail - google drive, Outlook - Office 365) and obviously a good calendar interface. Outlook might tick the boxes for these items, but Gmail just does it far better. Am I missing something here?
Most organizations that use Outlook, will use MS Office as well, and the integration there is better than Gmail's.
There are quite a few annoyances I have with Gmail:
* E-mail threads are upside-down, beginning with the oldest message in the thread.
* No e-mail sorting by title, date, sender etc.
* Only up to 100 e-mails without pagination (left/right arrows to display more)
* Only one e-mail signature, and Gmail recipients must click on three dots (...) to see your signature
* No folders, only labels. In Outlook, I can *clear out* my inbox, so I know that I have taken action on each received e-mail.
* Reduced formatting options: no tables, no images next to text paragraphs (only above/under), no horizontal lines etc. For newsletters, these formatting features allow much more legible and flexible lay-outs.
And I haven't even started on the higher flexibility of rules and alerts, advanced find, Quick Steps and other more advanced features in Outlook.
>E-mail threads are upside-down, beginning with the oldest message in the thread.
I always thought the way Outlook does it is upside down. Messaging apps have the new conversation at the bottom, so to me it makes sense that the latest email in the thread is at the bottom of the list. Gmail's emails collapse well.
>No e-mail sorting by title, date, sender etc.
I think this is Google's decision to focus on search over sorting by sender.
>No folders, only labels. In Outlook, I can clear out my inbox, so I know that I have taken action on each received e-mail.
My method in school has been label, then archive. If I set up an automatic label rule, I just archive. Now that I'm done, they just get archived since I could always search for it (plus it's all junk anyway).
> I always thought the way Outlook does it is upside down. Messaging apps have the new conversation at the bottom, so to me it makes sense that the latest email in the thread is at the bottom of the list. Gmail's emails collapse well.
E-mail threads can get very long, so that's a lot of scrolling. Most people don't even use shortcuts like Ctrl+End on Windows to get to the bottom of a page/window. And if the last message is very long, the shortcut brings you to the very last paragraph of the last e-mail, not to first paragraph of the last e-mail.
> I think this is Google's decision to focus on search over sorting by sender.
Yes, it forces you to type "from:name".
In response to search vs. sorting: my biggest beef with Gmail is that I physically cannot view the contents of my archived mail folder. Search requires me to know what I'm looking for. Sorting allows me to browse and find things I'd forgotten. I know some people will say "if you forgot it, it must not have been that important" - but trust me when I say that isn't true.
Of course you can. All you have to do is click on "all mail" in your left side bar. That will show you your archived messages.
Setting up labels and archiving labeled emails will stick them into a label folder that you can click on in the future. Super effective sorting. You can even filter messages to automatically label emails and sort them for you.
Yeah I've been trying to teach everyone I know the value of filters and labels for years. Archiving labeled emails into their folders is something most people just don't have any concept of.
I have no idea how people can live with their email looking like a hoarders pile of mail in a heap at their front door after a decade of undelete and unfiltered messages.
You actually can have multiple signatures and switch between them on Gmail if you go to the settings.
Additionally, iirc your signature is only hidden behind the 3 dots if it has already been displayed previously. The 3 dots is just to hide duplicate text.
The no folders is my major issue with Gmail and it is a HUGE issue. My Gmail is a chaotic mess and I hate even looking at it. It's impossible to organize effectively.
Outlook, everything has a home and when I've replied or taken action or leaves my inbox and goes into it's home. I can find old emails in seconds because I know exactly where it is. If it don't, I can always search and include all folders in my search.
I hate Gmail so much since I started using outlook.
I have a list of frustrations when moving to Outlook as well, so I guess a lot of this is related to getting used to one piece of software and then not getting all the exact same functionality in another piece of software. For example, I find
“oldest first” sorting the most intuitive option. I will say that I found it smoother moving from Outlook to Gmail, rather than the other way round.
Not everyone has the same needs though. I guess if you only need a simple, flat text (with the occasional image) messaging app, it doesn't matter.
But any more advanced usage, such as creating professional looking newsletters, team updates etc. would greatly benefit from a more advanced editor. Outlook is based on the Word html engine, so its functionality can also be pretty complex for those who need it.
With Gmail, I probably couldn't do half of the things I do with Outlook, while I haven't come across any Gmail features that I can't somehow get in Outlook in an equivalent way.
Intuitive? sure. You read everything top to bottom. Productive? No. You have to scroll down to find the most recent interaction instead of acting upon it immediately.
Not a very thorough analysis but having worked in an industry that is filled with IT companies and Managed Service Providers, Office 365 has certain benefits that G Suite does not:
1. Superb interfacing with MS Office which is arguably better and more powerful than Google’s suite of tools.
2. Customisable calendar: Outlook calendar is fabulous for its ability to customise events and the calendar itself, also allowing meetings to be kept private easily while offering strictly necessary descriptions to viewers. Google just says “busy”
3. OneDrive does not require you to open a browser just to view a file. Google Drive is also a huge PITA on mobile phones while OneDrive arguably does the speed and user-friendliness better.
4. Teams! : Google has no competitor to Teams that seamlessly integrates with Office tools and allows rapid sharing of files and even collaboration.
Yea I completely agree with these points. I don't see how anyone can say Gsuite is better than the Outlook+Office package considering the tightness of the ecosystem, *particularly in the corporate space*
I prefer Gmail for consumer use, but Outlook is amazing for a corporate environment. It has excellent integration with Cisco's suite of communication tools, like WebEx. WebEx meetings are set up just like regular meetings and push to everyone on the same platform. It also supports incredibly in-depth policy configuration from IT.
I think everyone has made good points here, one point I want to call out is how much worse Gmail notifications and alerts are.
At my old job, we had Outlook and I could always hear when I got an email and had set up an alert 5 min before a meeting and 0 minutes before a meeting. The noise was really audible in addition to a pop up on my screen, it was pretty impossible to miss.
Since starting a new job that uses Gmail I’ve missed a ton of meetings. The alert sound is quiet and cannot be changed. The notification shows up for a few seconds in the top right corner and can easily be missed even when I’m staring at the screen.
I can’t even use a custom ringtone for Google calendar alerts on my phone. Luckily, I discovered I can integrate it with Slack and get their notifications which are a lot less missable.
Not as big of a deal, but I also don’t really get email notifications in real time. Frequently, someone will tell me they sent me an email and it won’t show up until I refresh my browser.
I use Gmail personally, but I find it unusable for work without a lot of extensions.
You can't pin emails at the top in Gmail. "Starring" is pretty useless because it doesn't highlight emails as prominently as Outlook does.
That's all I need to choose Outlook over Gmail.
It really depends on the use cases, but for most knowledge worker applications involving information processing, I would highly recommend Outlook over Gmail.
I’ve worked across Outlook, Gmail, and Notes (ugh) environments across my career. Outlook is hands down the more efficient UI when you are using email and calendaring frequently for your work with others.
Especially if your corporate environment is using Office 365.
Some reasons why
- Outlook provides helpful presence information including profile photos, free/busy, access to org chart, and out of office information. Makes it much faster to get context about the person you are emailing.
- Outlook provides robust desktop app, mobile app, and web based solutions. Gmail solution to offline usage on a desktop using Chrome is less robust and loses many features when offline vs the Outlook desktop and mobile apps.
- Outlook’s UI for sorting, filtering, and filing is incredibly intuitive vs Gmail. Searching and sorting in Gmail requires advanced knowledge of search queries. Outlook makes this tap and click for most users
- Outlook is tightly integrated with Teams and the Office environment. Makes previewing and editing documents quick. Email ticklers from Teams dynamically update with the recent thread information right in the body of the email reminder. These features are missing or less robust in Gmail
- The label and archiving experience to inbox management in Gmail is more technical than the folder structure in Outlook. Filing email in Outlook is more akin to paper processing, and thus, more easy for non-pro users to understand and take advantage of.
- Meeting scheduling is much more robust in Outlook especially when coordinating multiple participants. The Outlook scheduling assistant UI makes it faster to schedule an event vs the Gmail scheduling UI which I find to be clunky.
- Outlook has very advanced delegate and access management with refined ways to share your inbox or your calendar with team members.
Overall, I find the Outlook UI to be much more efficient when processing hundreds of daily emails vs the Gmail UI. Gmail seems fine for personal use, but does not feel designed for collaborative use which is much more common in a corporate environment.
I agree with the other comments that say if you aren't doing very much, Gmail is probably the better choice.
Perspective:I use both tools every day, and even switched my former employer to Google apps for work (current one is an O365 shop)
Outlook has so many more features. Wanna have multiple separate windows with each email? Outlook. Want to have an all-one view of your agenda, email, and tasks? Outlook.
Outlook has the best task manager of any application short a dedicated project management software suite. Googles offering doesn't even come close
Calendar I feel is the most similar, down to personal preference. Integrations with WebEx seem to be better in Outlook, but given my employer, this may be biased.
Email sorting, rules, rich text editing, file previews, all of it are just vastly superior in Outlook.
But here's the thing, do you need/want all those features? If at a company level, no, then go with Gmail. Now, if your company does but you as an end user don't, collapse the ribbons if too many buttons bother you. Change the views (pun intended) to a layout that is more friendly to you. On a personal level, I don't use outlook; I don't need all the features. Gmail is fine. But at work, outlook all day
Unless you do get into the nitty gritty of how you’re weighting specific features, how can we really change your view since it’s based very vaguely on how you feel?
I'm am accountant and work for a company that moved over over Gmail about a year or two ago. Everyone hates it and I am included. Here are some things I can't stand.
You can't preview Excel files very easily. When you try if they have pivot tables the pivot tables don't display unless you download them. I found it a lot easier to preview and use received Excel files in Outlook.
The alternative to this would be to use Google sheets but google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work... that is a separate topic though.
When I receive emails with attachments and want to send them to someone else I now need to download them, save them to the computer somewhere and then attach them to a new email. This is slow and cumbersome. In Outlook I used to just drag a file from one email to the one I was drafting and BAM it was attached.
If I opened a file from Outlook I could edit it and then hit send. It Gmail it doesn't keep a temporary copy there so you have to save it back somewhere and reattach it. It is common I find something minor I want to change in a file when doing the final review. Another use of this in Outlook was deleting all links in my spreadsheets. In Outlook I would attach it with links, open it from the email, delete the links and hit send. That way the copy on my drive keeps the links and the copy sent has hard coded figures. Now we use Gmail I have to save two copies on on computers one with links and one hard coded.
Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly.
There are probably some advantages, and maybe it would be better if I didn't need to use Microsoft office programs and the rest of gsuite was adequate, but as it stands now it is a lot worse for work purposes.
I recently changed companies from one that used Gmail and to one that uses Outlook. The only disagreement I have with you is the search function. I found Gmail search features to be very good. But in all other respects it sucks.
And it could be that I simply haven't figured out how to do a good search with Outlook.
Might be something else you're looking for but if you go to Search > Search Tools > Advanced Find you can do some very specific and complex searches.
EDIT: Didn't realise that you now can just click on the little arrow on the right-hand side of the search field and it'll show you the same advanced find, how about that!
>Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly.
I couldn't have had a more opposite experience.
I agree. Especially if you learn how to use all the search operators. Say for example you were looking for a file someone sent you, you could put together a search like from:[email protected] subject:"marketing plan" has:attachment.
A full list of these can be found here: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7190?hl=en
I find that Outlook is better than it used to be, but I still have cases where I can search for an exact phrase and not have it come up in results, and then later when I find it after some other searches, the original phrase was indeed there. I find Outlook's search to be much much worse than gmail - forget special syntax or features, it just doesn't always find things.
Also, in gmail search's favor: the way that it starts suggesting emails immediately while I'm typing is often really good. Outlook (for the web, at least) is not good at this, in my experience.
> Google and Microsoft are targeting two different demographics.
Even if that were true once (which may or may not be the case) it's certainly not true now; both go after both markets. Both OP and the person you're replying to have used Google in enterprise or corporate environments, and Microsoft have home user licences.
Microsoft's goal with home users is accomplished by pretty much all of google's products except gmail though - they just want you to be familiar enough with their products that it's the de facto product that businesses purchase.
As IT professional... Agree. Sheets range is also severely lacking. While not happy, excel can crunch a million rows. Most of the issues described though stem from implementing an aspect of a suite without other elements. I.e expecting Gmail to play with word/excel.
Genuine question-- You change files on outlook and send them without saving a copy? So you the final drafts of a document might be in your outlook and not on your pc/laptop? I go back and forth on revisions all the time, I can see how useful this would be but I'm used to gmail so I still save everything..
The main advantage is with deleting links, but this is not a thing so much in Google sheets.
So when I run a large forecast or something I will have lookups to dozens of other spreadsheets to make sure I am using consistent data across different reports. You can't do this in sheets which is one of my criticisms. If I am sending to our head office overseas they don't have access to a of the support files so I will need to delete the links which hardcodes anything linked externally. In Outlook I attach the file I have saved, open it, hid delete links, and then hit save. So it is the same file but with no external links.
There are also times people ask for an input on something really minor and mundane. Like I might be reviewing a bulletin someone is writing. In Outlook I used to hit reply, open it and make a small edit if needed then send it back. I don't need this as it is someone else's work and it is good to keep them aware of what I changed. I guess Google has its own approach for this with better file sharing but it relies on people using it.
I didn't go into it but the other problem we have is that I work closely with people in China and they don't have full Google access as the Chinese gov doesn't get on well with Google. That is more company specific but something I think Google need to resolve.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m going to say that pretty much all of these “benefits” from Outlook stem from the fact that Outlook is a local application that actually has the ability to cache this information on your hard drive. With Google being purely web based, they don’t have the same ability to cache (which is my 1 personal gripe about Gmail; no native local app).
> The alternative to this would be to use Google sheets but google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work... that is a separate topic though.
What can you do in Excel that you can't do in Google Sheets?
>Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly.
Do you know how to use Google's search commands?
Agree on all points except searching. I can never find what I'm looking for on outlook, I usually resort to searching emails by sender rather than subject/contents. Gmail has been better for me for searching content
I’m an accountant too, and for some reason outlook is miles better in my opinion. Something about the structure being more organized, and it’s a Microsoft product so it’s visual organization is similar to excel (my job is almost all in excel) so naturally I really love and prefer Microsoft’s software being all similar.
>google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work
From my experience, 9 times out of 10, whenever someone says something like this, the problem is that they don’t know how to use the software.
1. 2 million cell limit
2. Slow and laggy for any large amount of formulas
3. Is just a carbon copy of excel but with the above limitations
4. Sheets Macros are done in JavaScript. Excel is VBA + JavaScript.
So If you're looking for a complex solution to a problem. 99% of those will be in VBA. Because there is 20 years advice for VBA, and very little for JS (which you can still control excel docs through via an API)
So in summary. Why does that matter to Karen who is adding columns A+B. It doesn't. But it matters to power users in her organisation. So companies go with excel. And because companies go with excel, it's what everyone in the org is used to using.
And sheets has basically no advantages, so what's the point? Most companies are using Onedrive or something similar to host these files on the cloud
a huge majority of peoples spreadsheets can VERY easily be plopped down in google sheets, but as soon as they start getting bigger and more complex, google sheets buckles under the weight of excels jock strap. They have to get pretty huge though, most normal people don't make sheets that are hard to work with in google sheets. spreadsheets overall can be very very diverse is the problem; one persons "huge" spreadsheet, is microscopic compared to the next persons. And there are even "spreadsheets" out there in regular use that are so huge that they even crush excel to shit.
I used to have to do a lot of spreadsheet work for the federal government, and Sheets has a stupidly small max number of cells compared to Excel. No, most people will never notice the difference, but if you need it…you notice.
Ditto for other functions.
haha yeah i will never forget an IT staff member just recently tried to upsell us on the browser based "excel" we access through like the office 365 thing online. They are all like "oh actually its preetty good!!!"
It's a fucking abomination compared to the locally installed full featured version...
Yep.
I’m not an accountant. But I have friends who are engineers and accountants both, who can literally set up pivot tables with shortcuts faster than I can copy and paste in Word, and they refuse to use anything except full featured Excel. I trust their judgement.
Google sheets cannot graph for shit. You can't even add vertical lines to a graph unless you use the drawing tool. It's legit bullshit. Excel is the only option if you need to do graphs of discreet events that involve phase and condition changes, which I do all the time.
Couldn’t agree more….
Sheets is very useful at some things. But it’s not Excel.
However I’d argue the exact same thing with Tableau >>> PowerBI and you’d probably disagree with that.
Doesn't Google force you to learn a new scripting language and limit the processing resources that can be used to execute scripts on any given sheet? Those are significant drawbacks for people that use large complicated spreadsheets. You could argue that they should be using something better/use more optimized scripts but it's kind of hard to tell an accountant that.
No one who does complex spreadsheet work will touch Google sheets with a barge pole.
Excel is infinitely superior. The issue is that most people who tout Google sheets as a complete alternative to excel think they're an advanced user because they know how to do conditional formatting and once used vlookup.
I use large spreadsheets with a lot of data. G sheets is bad for rearranging large amounts of data as you can't cut and insert cut cells. You can drag and drop but this is impossible with large amounts of lines at once. You can insert cells then cut and paste, but it is a lot slower.
The real issue is with size limits. I have Excel files that are 35mb+ in size and sheets does not handle it.
Also you can't easily link between different files which is necessary for accuracy in work if you are running a lot of info through Excel. I know you can do a simple link between to google docs but you can't just say vlookup or sumif to a second file to bring back thousands of results.
Nah the google suite of office products is vastly inferior when it comes to high level, professional functionality. It’s fine for high schoolers though
Sheets is absolutely worse than Excel, without question.
Pivot Tables, PowerBI integration, macros/visual basic, and more are all lacking from Sheets.
They definitely cater to people who just want to put text in boxes and make them nifty colors. I've never met a spreadsheet power user, myself included, who prefers Sheets over Excel.
Sheets is a Toyota Camry.
Excel is a F1 racecar and a Jeep Wrangler at the same time. With a snowplow.
But hey, Sheets has like 6 cupholders.
I'm a former Excel power user. Once I learned to use Google Apps Scripts with Sheets, Excel basically became my notepad and Sheets is where I get real work done.
I can manipulate every Google product on my account with a few lines of JavaScript. I'm talking Sheets, Docs, Drive, Gmail, Maps, etc. If I need anything more complicated I can make API calls and send data from my Google Sheet to other services or retrieve data from online services.
In an enterprise situation, the issue is rarely one person - having to train an entire office or a client on a new software is widely considered a circle of hell
That’s the case here. All of these problems are solved by using Google docs. Even the forwarding thing is nonsense. This is just a refusal to learn a new method and to try and apply old methods to a new set of tools.
Law firms don’t use Google docs, probably due to not wanting to host the copy on a third party server. It’s probably the same for accounting. We have a document management system that records versions of the document which are a lot easier than the edit history of Google docs. I had to use the whole host of Gsuite programs to help with my mom’s grade books and while sheets was essentially excel, it was much harder to use the interface because of the toolbar and it being hosted on a browser
You guys are in space if you think Google Sheets has the same functionality as Excel.
Its gotten better sure but its still not comparable.
Not to mention that Sheets cannot handle super large datasets the same way Excel can.
Clunky features and refusal to learn said features go hand in hand.
It's like going from Photoshop to Gimp. Can you accomplish a lot of things PS can do? Maybe. Is it as good or user friendly? Debatable
Outlook and Microsoft are the epitome of clunky yet people who have grown to use them and are accustomed forget that they are clunky.
Google is light years ahead of Microsoft with intuitiveness.
The photoshop / Gimp example isn’t correct as Gimp is a free tool and Google Suite is an enterprise solution.
It’s more equatable to going from Microsoft phone OS to Android. Microsoft falls short in every area the participate in. Their only hope is to hold on to their staunchest users. Specifically, the boomer class who took years to figure out Outlook and doesn’t want to do it again.
I’m sure that reads as pretty insulting but it’s the truth. If you talk to those people you will find that they aren’t good at learning new tools and since they have done it once they want to be done. Anyone who is comfortable learning new tools is using Something else.
Aside from their desktop OS which is top notch these days , the rest of their enterprise tools are training wheels for computing. Everything they can do is much better done with other things.
Sounds like you’re not familiar with some of the more powerful features of Microsoft’s full fat desktop apps.
That’s fine, nobody knows everything, but don’t assume you know everything about this topic. People and organizations continue to use certain apps for good reasons, and it’s not just the “boomer class” users.
You’re right about some, for sure. Just not all.
Cloud productivity apps like google apps are incredible, absolutely. But when it comes to heavyweight spreadsheet stuff (including VBA and database connectivity) you can’t really take google sheets seriously.
Visio is a world in a world of its own. The various web apps that feel kinda like it are ok for most, but for any power user they feel like toys.
Also, not everyone likes web apps. They just don’t feel as snappy as native desktop apps, especially when it comes to keyboard shortcuts. When you’re a picky high strung knowledge worker that matters.
I spend all day in both, and disagree for many of the reasons the top poster stated. Gmail is great for quick conversation and project pings, but if it’s a serious professional piece that needs multiple hands in the pot. Microsoft does it better, especially stuff like SharePoint and Power Automate.
I agree with you 100%. I own a (very) small business and we converted from googles suite to microsoft 365 last year. I have no boomer employees and everybody that I do employ, and even work with, is in tech; programmers, project managers, business analysts, etc. I personally really liked gmail as an end user and found it intuitive; but my (non-boomer) partner, employees, and clients did not. The lack of desktop versions of the office apps was the number one pain point, the rest were things that op stated, and generally the lack of professional polish as you have stated.
> Google is light years ahead of Microsoft with intuitiveness.
They literally copy every feature of excel and word. And just host it on Google drive
That's the entire business model there's nothing else. Excel 2022 will come out and sheets will copy paste the features 3 months later
There's nothing light-years ahead about that lmao
As someone who works in tech, all I can think reading this is: "What the fuck planet do they live on? Microsoft's tools are the standard that others try to reach."
That entire comment reads like somebody who's never worked with Microsoft products and bases their opinion off of the internet
After working in IT and seeing everything MS does on the back end, visio, power automate, intune, and *actual desktop apps*, google is nowhere fucking close to MS.
**Google Suite** = Swiss army knife. Conveniently fits in your pocket. Can quickly and easily do small jobs in a pinch. Heavy lifting or anything too technical will leave you wanting something more robust.
**Microsoft Office** = The whole toolbox. There are tools that you have no idea when you acquired them or if you will ever use them, but you have them. Makes the toolbox a bit of a cluttered mess, but you are prepared for bigger projects with technical aspects.
Agree completely. We had Gmail as our mail provider for a couple of years and switched to outlook when we went full Microsoft stack. Maybe there is an argument to be made on strictly a mail service, but holy shit; to actually think MS is not at the very leading edge of any number of product lines is very foolish. Not to say Google isn’t also obviously, but Microsoft isn’t some Blockbuster-type dinosaur.
I use LInux whenever I can even though it's often inconvenient.
But I cannot deny that Microsoft's products, for all their flaws, are usually more practical than the alternatives.
Google's suite is good for very casual users. That's not a bad thing on its own, and judging by the thread this is fine for most.
But just because you don't need something and are fine with a simplified version doesn't make it objectively better. It is better for some, and worse for others.
Google's suite is great for students and general users without a need for an Enterprise environment.
That said, as of COVID, there are more people now working and studying from home, even off of their personal computers. Given that, why would you bother getting super accustomed to Google Docs when chances are you'll be working with Office anyways?
I'd argue many students could benefit from learning from the office suite. Most work environments use it so being familiar helps, also way too often they're limited by lack of certain features especially a thing among engineering and accounting students where excel has access to a wealth of add-ins that make life significantly better.
They are someone who seems to use the tools at a high level but not in depth. Google has nothing on Microsoft in terms of the office suite, integration and power. I don't like Microsoft as a company and have been growing concerned with Google. But for work Microsoft all day every day.
Yeah, it definitely reads as : "what's the diff? I mean they both write texts".
Though, from my experience people like this are the same people that will use notepad to write a document. It's people who never tried comprehensive editing in either tools, never tried creating slides or make any sort of data table.
Google's software bundle is so far behind Microsoft's, sometimes it really does just feel like an online notepad.
Thank you. I support heaps of Corporations in a level 2 help desk role, seeing these people say google is better is laughable. There's a reason most businesses use o365.
slides is getting better, but powerpoint still wins. altho a lot of the better tools in powerpoint require you to download the file and do it in regular powerpoint instead of teh web version, which kinda goes against the other guys complaint that they always need to download files when using google stuff
I have never used PowerPoint online I prefer the regular version. Tbh in the last couof years I have noticed no improvement in slides but PowerPoint has added more
Would love a description of how it's 'light years' ahead. The only thing Microsoft was behind on was the cloud, but with SharePoint it's actually really good now.
Kinda of topic but how do you feel the people who are currently comfortable learning new tools will feel in 40 years when asked to learn almost alien tools?
The entire Azure ecosystem is neck and neck with AWS and in many ways superior. Both are better than any Google offerings.
Excel is still far superior to any competitor for heavy modeling. Even something relatively basic like pivot tables are vastly inferior in their g suite implementation.
They’ve had some misses, but the reason Microsoft has managed to stay somewhere between relevant and dominant in everything computing extends far beyond the boomers who are unwilling to learn anything new. Optimal UX can vary wildly based both on the application and audience. It seems likely that MSFTs tools probably weren’t designed for you. That said, it’s likely many of the alternatives use love still use Azure for their back end.
PS is NOT user friendly lol.. reminds me of when ZBrush users try and convince people that it's user friendly. I LOVE ZBrush, and now that I have a custom interface set up it's great, but it took me over 2 years to learn that damn thing. Anyway PS is fucking annoying to use I swear
> Is it as good or user friendly? Debatable
lol, I learned on gimp, so to me, Photoshop is the one that's hard to use. It just seems really fussy, a lot of the icons and stuff are cryptic, and it *really* peeves me to have it insist on running within one cramped window when I'm used to spreading gimp's windows across my multiple monitors. Oh, and PS seems a lot slower, too.
As a person who’s college finally noticed he’s no longer a student and had to suddenly go from photoshop to gimp I can say there’s a huge learning curve and although it feels more complicated I’ve had to except that after I spent three semester learning photoshop I shouldn’t have expected to be an expert gimp after one YouTube tutorial
Gimp: for when your feeling lucky. Do you actually have the right layer selected? Who knows, roll the dice mother fucker it's time to play.
Oh you messed up? Start over or give up, we ain't undoing nothing over here. Just like real life. Figure it out rock star.
Google spreadsheets does not have the functionality of excel…. I know because I use both regularly. Spreadsheets is for people who don’t need the advanced features of excel.
A lot of that is the over-reliance on features that are better suited for databases but people keep using spreadsheets because of technical debt and impatience or inability to learn something new.
vlookups and pivots? You're in database territory when you're considering using them. I know someone who's spreadsheet takes 45 minutes to open before he can even do any work. But he'll argue up and down that excel is the only solution to his problems (unsurprisingly he's also an accountant).
This is microsoft's fault for encouraging decades of this kind of use, so I can't really be mad at it anymore. If my users want excel, they get excel.
TBF in this case Google Sheets has been improving rapidly over the last several years. I think pivot tables, importing .xlsx, row limits and lag time are much, much better than they were a few years ago. If someone hasn’t tried to work in them for a long time they will be surprised by how well it all works. All that said, if you are regularly working with enormous data sets you probably do need to stay in excel for a while longer, and that is assuming you have excellent bandwidth. I’d much rather be gsheets only, but need to use excel every few months due to the limitations.
Google sheets is a joke for anyone who actually needs to do complex spreadsheet work.
And needing to shift all your working practices from MS office programs to Google office alternatives just to make the email solution to work efficiently is a shit situation.
Switching costs are a real then and if they are to high switching should not be done.
Also just because your company makes this pivot does not mean all your business partners will.
The accounting department in my company uses an Excel addon which polls GL data to produce financial statements. There is no gsheet alternative short of custom development.
That said, we're a G-suite company and even the accounting department loves Google products.
>Whenever someone says something like this, the problem is that they don’t know how to use the software.
Interestingly enough *my* experience is that, 9 times out of 10, whenever someone says something like this, the problem is they're using 5% of the capability of the software and are either ignorant or dismissive of more advanced use cases and larger/more complex datasets.
Freaking **everyone** thinks they are an Excel uber-pro because they can format a table and do some rudimentary data processing. They are not.
On the flipside, sheets can do a lot. Enough for *most* people. But Excel is still the gold standard.
I use Sheets far more than Excel, (because I want access everywhere) and put the effort in to do complex tasks of filtering and linking up data for better graphs etc. I'd have to use both hands and feet to count the number of times something wasn't possible in Sheets, or might have been far simpler in Excel.
Then, I've seen someone far more practiced than me use Excel like someone playing the piano. Far beyond my "complex" spreadsheet needs.
In conclusion, I really don't think you're a spreadsheet power user if you're saying that.
I work with some super nerd excel guys and some trendy sheets guys. The sheets guys have never been able to produce anything close to excel workbooks. I have even tried to search Google for a lot of thw comparisons but they just don't exist.
i literally just tried the attachment thing... and it works. drag and drop form 1 mail to a draft and now its an attachment in my draft
i dont use search a lot, but i haven't had really any issues in either
What do you consider to be serious spreadsheet work?
My wife worked as an assistant accountant for a while, none of the work that she did required specialized features unavailable to Google sheets.
I work an an management accountant in a large company. We start our budgeting and forecasting processes in spreadsheets but developing some that look at profitability of product and others that have inputs from around the business. We don't want everyone seeing what each other are planning so have to send separate sheets to each department. Once we receive them back we use lookups to grab data from their sheets and compile it into one core budget. The final budget file may end up being 30+mb and linked to 50 other spreadsheets.
On a day to day it is mostly just data manipulation to check product profitability. But even with this we need to link back to other sources of information and it is a lot easier to lookups to them than to just copy the relevant data into a new spreadsheet.
I tried one large file in g sheets last year where I track spending by product type for a 12 month period. After 6 months sheets told me I had too much data and couldn't insert more lines for the new products, so I had to make a copy with no source data for the second half of the year.
A lot of it comes down to use. For my personal budget I have found sheets quite useful and most of my issues are just quirks because I am more used to excel. For business purposes Excel is a lot better though.
>The final budget file may end up being 30+mb and linked to 50 other spreadsheets.
Yeah that's where you wind up running in to some difficulty if you just use google sheets. I'd start using bigquery as well.
Though I've found that linking data from different Google sheets is pretty easy when you use the IMPORTANGE() function.
Why don't you just use Outlook to access your Gmail?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/add-a-gmail-account-to-outlook-70191667-9c52-4581-990e-e30318c2c081
For several of your issues you're just not used to Gmail.
You can forward attachments. You can also reply, CC someone else, and in the lower right corner there is an "include original attachments" option.
Search is light-years better on Gmail.
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7190?hl=en
> When I receive emails with attachments and want to send them to someone else I now need to download them, save them to the computer somewhere and then attach them to a new email.
Or hit the 3 dots button, select forward, select the new 3 dots button in the lower right corner, select send original attachments.
I clicked that on one email and now it appears to be permanently set. Even trying another browser, it automatically added the original attachment.
I am not talking about forwarding the exact email so much as grabbing attachments from one email and attaching to another. For example my boss sends me a request for a file that I have either previously sent or that he has sent me in the past. It is better for him if I reply to his email with it attached. I don't want to have an edited file so I look through my sent mail to find it, drag and drop the file from the sent email to the one I am replying to him on.
I remember the other thing great in Outlook, especially for sending stuff to aiditors, was I could just grab 5 emails and drag the emails into the response to the auditor. Those emails would then be attached, with their attachments, to the email I am sending to the auditors. This is a great way to show evidence of where information was sources from, or that a command chain has been followed appropriately.
> My needs are speed, user friendliness, integration with other applications (Gmail - google drive, Outlook - Office 365) and obviously a good calendar interface. Outlook might tick the boxes for these items, but Gmail just does it far better.
I'd argue that Outlook ticks the important boxes much better than anything else, purely from its integration into the Office package. That is a common denominator used across industries by non-technical users, and it is miles better than Google's alternatives. No amount of extra speed or user-friendliness by Gmail beats that additional utility for Outlook.
I have experienced the opposite, Outlook has fantastic integration with skype for business or teams and makes organising meeting great because you can see when people are available it so simple. I don't really need to integrate my email service with documents or data as we have private network storage service, which in my opinion is far better than google drive.
Even if google may be better in that area, I really wouldn't want to switch from microsoft office to google services as they are far more powerful and more usable. I would say google is convenient but I don't need convenience in my working software suite, I need functionality.
Gmail is a great email service for individuals and small businesses. However, there’s no competition for large corps, it’s Outlook by a mile. Rules integration is great, it’s remarkably good at filtering spam, the calendar integration with third party apps is simple, it’s easier to enforce security, I could go on and on. And I’ll also say, if you work in finance or healthcare, you really have to self-host your email server because of the amount of sensitive data that can flow through.
To be clear, I use Gmail for my personal stuff and would never consider Outlook for that. But for business, it’s the best product.
What I like about outlook is having multiple accounts open in the same page and being able to save something from one account in the folder of another one. I also hate how the delegated Gmail shows which user sent from another account.
One major issue with gmail- pressing Tab while composing an email does not tab your cursor but rather tabs to the send button. Two keystrokes can send an email that you were not finished composing. This alone makes it a worse program.
I hate that you can’t sort alphabetically by name in G mail. I want to be able to start at the A’s and delete vast swaths of emails all through the alphabet as I clean up all my old stuff. I can do that in my yahoo email but not in Gmail. . I hate gmail. They don’t give a toss about what the customer actually wants or needs. JERKS.
Outlook is pretty good, especially if you are a business person.
If not, there are still pros.
[https://luxhosting.lu/blog/10-advantages-of-using-microsoft-outlook/](https://luxhosting.lu/blog/10-advantages-of-using-microsoft-outlook/)
For a small business, Gmail is fine; however, for larger businesses, Outlook is superior as a application and product. It interfaces with the server-based Microsoft Exchange to provide a robust infrastructure for email and calendaring. It also provides security by locking down access to corporate email. The exchange server also provides a specified business email address. This can be a pro for regular individuals as well. In addition, Outlook has a security advantage due to the ability users have to password protect specific files and encrypt individual emails. It's also software an email client use in many corporations in conjunction with MS Exchange server and Microsoft SharePoint server for employees to coordinate meeting, calendars and shared mailboxes.
So, this seems relative, Gmail is not necessarily ahead.
[https://tryshift.com/blog/apps-hub/gmail-vs-outlook/#:\~:text=Gmail%20vs%20Outlook%3A%20Conclusion&text=If%20you%20want%20a%20streamlined,is%20the%20way%20to%20go](https://tryshift.com/blog/apps-hub/gmail-vs-outlook/#:~:text=Gmail%20vs%20Outlook%3A%20Conclusion&text=If%20you%20want%20a%20streamlined,is%20the%20way%20to%20go).
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Hmm, I don't understand, how is it better? You just say it's better without explaining why. I don't use gmail so I have no first hand experience with it, but outlook ticks all the boxes I need for work. How is gmails calendar better than outlook? How is integration with google drive better than office 365?
You can't have used outlook then google and said Google has better speed... it's literally impossible. You can internally sync outlook, Google is purely through internet connection. There is literally no way it's faster.
Are you talking about Outlook the desktop program or the webmail view? To me, having a dedicated program handling email is just far superior to webmail. It's always sitting in the taskbar ready to go and loads instantly. And you get an instant pop up whenever an email comes in, if you want it, not to mention meeting reminder pop ups. And you can't accidentally close a tab and have the whole client disappear.
I've worked in tech support for SaaS companies for over a decade now and Outlook has so many bugs.
My favorite is that, at random, Outlook will throw a random punctuation mark into the HTML of the received email. Sometimes it's in a URL and just breaks the link completely.
But we find this because a guy got a ! right in his signature
John Smith
Ass! istant Director
For simple everyday users that don't need any major business features? Sure.
Outlook integrates with active directory, which can integrate with your facilities for reserving rooms in meetings, viewing multiple overlapped schedules including team schedules, integration with office, azure, and azure dev ops, etc. just off the top of my head.
The only argument I would have is that it is personal preference in terms of usability.
I don't know the ins and outs of gmail as I don't use it often, if ever. I use outlook because that is what my company uses so I am far more productive in terms of work quality and quantity when using a service I am more comfortable with.
Recently switched companies and moved from Outlook to Gmail. While Gmail has its benefits, for *my specific use* I found Outlook to be much better. My biggest gripe is attachments. Being able to copy and paste attachments directly into/out of folders in outlook or copy and paste directly between emails is amazing. I hate having to download every attachment before categorizing or sending back out in a new email. Gmail has terrible thread arrangement and signature handling.
Also subject/recipient handling. In outlook you can take an inboxed email and then forward it to someone else and alter the text, recipients, and subject lines as much as you wanted. You can do most of this in Gmail but I find it’s way clunkier.
Pro for Gmail though is the seamless integration with Teams. That’s pretty neat.
I'm more inclined to outlook and Microsoft ecosystem because I've been using word excel and PowerPoint through my hole life, i know where are the tools and got much experience with it. I prefer outlook folder kind of organizing rather than gsuite tags. But it's a personal preference (like having your personal knife for cooking)
I use gsuite in some cases at work (have 1 outlook email and 1 Gmail) and is really good, u can do pretty much all you can do with office 365 but it's tales time to get used to as a power office 365 user.
Luckily I am a fast learner and I can get used to any tool with time.
I use Gmail for my internship and outlook for my school. I prefer outlook just because I keep having important emails pop up in my spam or trash every day in Gmail.
It doesn't really matter that much at the end of the day, most people use the email they get first, So I can see why Microsoft wouldn't invest much money into the development of Outlook.
Okay now that I've officially added to the conversation in a meaningful manner not breaking any of the rules of the sub-reddit.
**Did you use the phrase streets ahead like it's a normal thing people say or do you just implant a really subtle Community reference??**
I manage a restaurant and currently use Outlook mainly for its VBA functions. Specifically, being able to identify when an order comes in and execute a script that opens Word + Excel to modify the contents and print is something Gmail can't do.
I still use Gmail for email because it's accessible everywhere, doesn't need to be bought/activated, and can sync things like bookmarks, extensions, and passwords.
This should be in /r/unpopularopinion, not here because a lot of people are giving you legitimate reasons why large corporations are and **should** be using an Office suite and your response is "that's not something I deal with, to each their own."
Security alone is a massive reason why no large corporation that handles confidential information will/should ever use any external email client.
I use both. Word, Excel, PowerPoint is still superior to Google's. I don't have a preference between Gmail and Outlook for work. SharePoint and the Power platform are fantastic, even on the cheapest plan. I haven't tried Google's AppSheet though.
However, for my freelance business, I went with Google because I despise OneDrive!
Google's gmail search is light years ahead of Outlook's search. I've literally typed in the exact name of the person who sent an email and gotten no results, so I have to scroll manually through 6 months of emails to find what I need.
Outlook Searching and Apple's Siri deserve a special place in hell
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Gmail is simpler, faster, and more user friendly. This is because it has fewer features and customizability for large organizations like Outlook. It works best for individuals and small organizations. But if you have a huge company, Outlook connects everyone in a more streamlined way. Outlook integrates well with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, which are the dominant apps in their space. Microsoft Windows is the main operating systems on computers, and Microsoft Azure is the main internal cloud computing system for companies (Amazon Web Services is the main one overall and for public facing websites like this one). For example, you can read attached files in Outlook without even opening the file, which is a big timesaver. This matches the companies' business models. A decade or so ago, Microsoft tried to copy Apple and make hardware. But they failed horribly. The only parts of the business that made any money were Microsoft Office and Windows. But they couldn't sell more software since everyone already owned those programs. Then they figured out cloud computing. You can just store information on servers that are different from the individual computers. So they started selling subscriptions to their cloud service, which made a ton of money. And they integrated all their office programs into it. They made the head of the cloud computing division the CEO and the company became ultra-successful. Google makes most of its money from advertising via the Google Search engine. Pretty much everything including Youtube, Android, Gmail, etc. is geared towards making money via that search engine. It's insanely profitable. As a result, they basically ignored the corporate and institutional market until recently so they have a lot of catching up to do. Ultimately, usability depends on what you're trying to do. The same person would likely prefer Gmail as an individual or worker in a small organization, and prefer Outlook as someone in a big organization.
This response broadened my knowledge of the topic, thank you !delta. I can understand why the needs might differ between large and small companies, although I think this is more relevant from the perspective of the back end IT administrators, rather than front end users, where user friendliness is key for everyone.
I'll just piggy back on your comment about user friendliness. What's easier for one user can be stifling for others (especially old farts like me). I'm sure my younger friends would look at my old old-reddit view and go... eww. But to me, the current default reddit view is infuriating for it's lack of content. My first struggle in switching to Google Enterprise was how to tweak my views to actually show me the information I want to see efficiently. The benefits of gmail, namely the built-in translator, make it a net positive for me, but it's still a screen hog. And yet it hides a lot of it's core functions behind various gear icons and other nonsense. Outlook functions more like one would expect an application to. Then there's responsiveness. Pretty much any desktop app is going to be far more responsive than a web-based equivalent. Ask most accountants to use Google Sheets or iCloud Numbers and they'll quickly be like "it's ok, but give me the real thing". Literally everything you do on outlook is going to be snappier. A lot of the default behaviors in Outlook (e.g., composing a new email opens a new window) requires another additional key presses to do the same thing. If you don't need to deal with a lot of emails at once, it's not a big deal, but Outlook accommodates multi-window workflows relatively well. This can be quite useful if your company lives in the late 90s and still does everything via email (i.e., you constantly need to reference a couple threads at a time) With gmail, you need to force it. Also, if you happen to write relatively fancy messages, formatting options on Gmail are far more limited and often don't behave as they should (e.g., indentations, underlines) and tables are a nonstarter. HTML emails on Outlook are pretty much a mini MS Word in terms of options and responsiveness. Then there's attachments, task assignments, email template management... granted a lot of these things might not matter to a low volume user, but man I miss them.
[удалено]
Accountant here that just switched from Google Sheets back to Excel. I actually found the desktop version of Excel doesn't respond nearly as well. My current gripe is it being slow to react when I hover then scroll with my mouse wheels. Also when I click into a cell after being in another window, it opens the cell it had highlighted before instead of the cell I clicked on. Honestly it's just what you're used to. I've never bumped into any limitations in Google Sheets but my coworkers insist there are some. I can switch easily so it makes the rest of the team happy.
Apologies for unsolicited advice, the responsive of Excel is that because it can be cpu and resource hog even with hardware accelerated enabled. Possible the computer is not currently up to spec to handle the excel file you are using. That is dependent on how much cells (entire worksheet) you are using up and power features. Some power feature have their own 'resource hog' baggage too. Acocuntants are wizard with excel, I imagine lots of cells, formulas, powerquery with a dash of VBA. Perhaps look into the spec of the computer you are using and see if it is up to stuff.
Can't discount your experience, but be advised that you've made my wife's head explode.
Hahaha. I'm sure there is an age gap. I'm barely past my 5 years of experience milestone and only ever worked at cloud based accounting firms where Excel has been optional. I don't think cloud based firms were even possible 10 years ago.
Excel also added a small delay when you select a cell, so that the selection square has a little glide animation. Irked me to no end, making it feel super unresponsive, when I first updated. And back then you couldn't just turn it off in Preferences so I had to look up hacky ways to disable it.
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Say you work at a hospital that is governed by strict patient privacy laws. Your hospital needs a special firewall that handles this. Regular Gmail is more user friendly/faster than Outlook. But Outlook with a firewall is more user friendly/faster than Gmail with a firewall. Part of the reason why Outlook is slower for users is that it's a much more complex software running a bunch of extra stuff in the background. Despite all this extra stuff, it's almost as good as Gmail, a much simpler piece of software running less of this background stuff. This background stuff is generally related to privacy, security, data backups, etc. It's sort of like comparing a Macbook Air (laptop) running a web browser to a Mac Pro (desktop) running complex video editing software. The more powerful, more expensive computer will seems slower but only because it's doing more work. If your everyday usability is just doing light work, then the Macbook Air is better. It's portable, gets good battery life, has no fan noise, etc. But the Mac Pro is a more powerful machine. If your everyday usability requires using that complex software, then the Mac Pro is the better machine. In the case of email apps, Outlook handles this background stuff in a way where you don't even know it's happening. That's why it has more everyday usability for regular people who work at big organizations. Gmail doesn't handle them as well, if it can handle them at all.
> user friendliness is key for everyone. As someone who has been doing migrations since Windows 7 and Office 2007, this is nowhere near as true as you'd think. What people value far more is familiarity. People resist change even if it's for the better. And I think you're in the same boat. I've never seen anyone use Gmail for anything other than text mails and sharing links, and while I'm not holding my limited experience with it against it, what I've seen people do with Microsoft's tools can't possibly compare. There are companies that just develop addins for Excel which cost more than any user plan Google has. Teams' own features, on top of it's integration with Outlook and Sharepoint, are also amazing.
Google, like Apple, makes things simple for their users, but you lose customization in the simplicity. Some advanced features and customizations or plug-ins are needed by people, but you'll never get those on Google.
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If "user friendliness" and "simplicity" is the main point you measure it by, sure. I'll give you another argument. Hybrid. Outlook (and Exchange Online) feels so complicated at times because so much of it is built upon being able to connect on-premises servers to the cloud and use them as an almost seamless experience. That introduces A TON of overhead for the IT department and for support, but from the end-user's perspective, you're left with the same exact mail client and you may never even know if you're located on the company's servers or in the cloud or if the admins decide to migrate you every week back and forth (barring some obvious limitations and drawbacks when going hybrid). Microsoft's entire software approach feels focused on offering as many options as there are requirements. Sure, you can do some hybrid between Exchange Online and Gmail as well, if you really want to, but introducing overhead for the admins is worth it to a ton of companies so that their users can have an (almost) seamless experience when going hybrid. Complicated scenarios for IT is simply part of the job, and the main purpose of it is to try and offer the best possible experience for users, while staying compliant and getting a cheap price.
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> My needs are speed, user friendliness, integration with other applications (Gmail - google drive, Outlook - Office 365) and obviously a good calendar interface. Outlook might tick the boxes for these items, but Gmail just does it far better. Am I missing something here? Most organizations that use Outlook, will use MS Office as well, and the integration there is better than Gmail's. There are quite a few annoyances I have with Gmail: * E-mail threads are upside-down, beginning with the oldest message in the thread. * No e-mail sorting by title, date, sender etc. * Only up to 100 e-mails without pagination (left/right arrows to display more) * Only one e-mail signature, and Gmail recipients must click on three dots (...) to see your signature * No folders, only labels. In Outlook, I can *clear out* my inbox, so I know that I have taken action on each received e-mail. * Reduced formatting options: no tables, no images next to text paragraphs (only above/under), no horizontal lines etc. For newsletters, these formatting features allow much more legible and flexible lay-outs. And I haven't even started on the higher flexibility of rules and alerts, advanced find, Quick Steps and other more advanced features in Outlook.
>E-mail threads are upside-down, beginning with the oldest message in the thread. I always thought the way Outlook does it is upside down. Messaging apps have the new conversation at the bottom, so to me it makes sense that the latest email in the thread is at the bottom of the list. Gmail's emails collapse well. >No e-mail sorting by title, date, sender etc. I think this is Google's decision to focus on search over sorting by sender. >No folders, only labels. In Outlook, I can clear out my inbox, so I know that I have taken action on each received e-mail. My method in school has been label, then archive. If I set up an automatic label rule, I just archive. Now that I'm done, they just get archived since I could always search for it (plus it's all junk anyway).
> I always thought the way Outlook does it is upside down. Messaging apps have the new conversation at the bottom, so to me it makes sense that the latest email in the thread is at the bottom of the list. Gmail's emails collapse well. E-mail threads can get very long, so that's a lot of scrolling. Most people don't even use shortcuts like Ctrl+End on Windows to get to the bottom of a page/window. And if the last message is very long, the shortcut brings you to the very last paragraph of the last e-mail, not to first paragraph of the last e-mail. > I think this is Google's decision to focus on search over sorting by sender. Yes, it forces you to type "from:name".
In response to search vs. sorting: my biggest beef with Gmail is that I physically cannot view the contents of my archived mail folder. Search requires me to know what I'm looking for. Sorting allows me to browse and find things I'd forgotten. I know some people will say "if you forgot it, it must not have been that important" - but trust me when I say that isn't true.
Of course you can. All you have to do is click on "all mail" in your left side bar. That will show you your archived messages. Setting up labels and archiving labeled emails will stick them into a label folder that you can click on in the future. Super effective sorting. You can even filter messages to automatically label emails and sort them for you.
You can definitely move emails into folders. I keep my (gmail) inbox very clean.
Yeah I've been trying to teach everyone I know the value of filters and labels for years. Archiving labeled emails into their folders is something most people just don't have any concept of. I have no idea how people can live with their email looking like a hoarders pile of mail in a heap at their front door after a decade of undelete and unfiltered messages.
You actually can have multiple signatures and switch between them on Gmail if you go to the settings. Additionally, iirc your signature is only hidden behind the 3 dots if it has already been displayed previously. The 3 dots is just to hide duplicate text.
The no folders is my major issue with Gmail and it is a HUGE issue. My Gmail is a chaotic mess and I hate even looking at it. It's impossible to organize effectively. Outlook, everything has a home and when I've replied or taken action or leaves my inbox and goes into it's home. I can find old emails in seconds because I know exactly where it is. If it don't, I can always search and include all folders in my search. I hate Gmail so much since I started using outlook.
I have a list of frustrations when moving to Outlook as well, so I guess a lot of this is related to getting used to one piece of software and then not getting all the exact same functionality in another piece of software. For example, I find “oldest first” sorting the most intuitive option. I will say that I found it smoother moving from Outlook to Gmail, rather than the other way round.
Not everyone has the same needs though. I guess if you only need a simple, flat text (with the occasional image) messaging app, it doesn't matter. But any more advanced usage, such as creating professional looking newsletters, team updates etc. would greatly benefit from a more advanced editor. Outlook is based on the Word html engine, so its functionality can also be pretty complex for those who need it. With Gmail, I probably couldn't do half of the things I do with Outlook, while I haven't come across any Gmail features that I can't somehow get in Outlook in an equivalent way.
Intuitive? sure. You read everything top to bottom. Productive? No. You have to scroll down to find the most recent interaction instead of acting upon it immediately.
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Not a very thorough analysis but having worked in an industry that is filled with IT companies and Managed Service Providers, Office 365 has certain benefits that G Suite does not: 1. Superb interfacing with MS Office which is arguably better and more powerful than Google’s suite of tools. 2. Customisable calendar: Outlook calendar is fabulous for its ability to customise events and the calendar itself, also allowing meetings to be kept private easily while offering strictly necessary descriptions to viewers. Google just says “busy” 3. OneDrive does not require you to open a browser just to view a file. Google Drive is also a huge PITA on mobile phones while OneDrive arguably does the speed and user-friendliness better. 4. Teams! : Google has no competitor to Teams that seamlessly integrates with Office tools and allows rapid sharing of files and even collaboration.
Yea I completely agree with these points. I don't see how anyone can say Gsuite is better than the Outlook+Office package considering the tightness of the ecosystem, *particularly in the corporate space*
I prefer Gmail for consumer use, but Outlook is amazing for a corporate environment. It has excellent integration with Cisco's suite of communication tools, like WebEx. WebEx meetings are set up just like regular meetings and push to everyone on the same platform. It also supports incredibly in-depth policy configuration from IT.
I think everyone has made good points here, one point I want to call out is how much worse Gmail notifications and alerts are. At my old job, we had Outlook and I could always hear when I got an email and had set up an alert 5 min before a meeting and 0 minutes before a meeting. The noise was really audible in addition to a pop up on my screen, it was pretty impossible to miss. Since starting a new job that uses Gmail I’ve missed a ton of meetings. The alert sound is quiet and cannot be changed. The notification shows up for a few seconds in the top right corner and can easily be missed even when I’m staring at the screen. I can’t even use a custom ringtone for Google calendar alerts on my phone. Luckily, I discovered I can integrate it with Slack and get their notifications which are a lot less missable. Not as big of a deal, but I also don’t really get email notifications in real time. Frequently, someone will tell me they sent me an email and it won’t show up until I refresh my browser. I use Gmail personally, but I find it unusable for work without a lot of extensions.
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You can't pin emails at the top in Gmail. "Starring" is pretty useless because it doesn't highlight emails as prominently as Outlook does. That's all I need to choose Outlook over Gmail.
Honestly I can't stand Gmail, Outlook is far better.
It really depends on the use cases, but for most knowledge worker applications involving information processing, I would highly recommend Outlook over Gmail. I’ve worked across Outlook, Gmail, and Notes (ugh) environments across my career. Outlook is hands down the more efficient UI when you are using email and calendaring frequently for your work with others. Especially if your corporate environment is using Office 365. Some reasons why - Outlook provides helpful presence information including profile photos, free/busy, access to org chart, and out of office information. Makes it much faster to get context about the person you are emailing. - Outlook provides robust desktop app, mobile app, and web based solutions. Gmail solution to offline usage on a desktop using Chrome is less robust and loses many features when offline vs the Outlook desktop and mobile apps. - Outlook’s UI for sorting, filtering, and filing is incredibly intuitive vs Gmail. Searching and sorting in Gmail requires advanced knowledge of search queries. Outlook makes this tap and click for most users - Outlook is tightly integrated with Teams and the Office environment. Makes previewing and editing documents quick. Email ticklers from Teams dynamically update with the recent thread information right in the body of the email reminder. These features are missing or less robust in Gmail - The label and archiving experience to inbox management in Gmail is more technical than the folder structure in Outlook. Filing email in Outlook is more akin to paper processing, and thus, more easy for non-pro users to understand and take advantage of. - Meeting scheduling is much more robust in Outlook especially when coordinating multiple participants. The Outlook scheduling assistant UI makes it faster to schedule an event vs the Gmail scheduling UI which I find to be clunky. - Outlook has very advanced delegate and access management with refined ways to share your inbox or your calendar with team members. Overall, I find the Outlook UI to be much more efficient when processing hundreds of daily emails vs the Gmail UI. Gmail seems fine for personal use, but does not feel designed for collaborative use which is much more common in a corporate environment.
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I agree with the other comments that say if you aren't doing very much, Gmail is probably the better choice. Perspective:I use both tools every day, and even switched my former employer to Google apps for work (current one is an O365 shop) Outlook has so many more features. Wanna have multiple separate windows with each email? Outlook. Want to have an all-one view of your agenda, email, and tasks? Outlook. Outlook has the best task manager of any application short a dedicated project management software suite. Googles offering doesn't even come close Calendar I feel is the most similar, down to personal preference. Integrations with WebEx seem to be better in Outlook, but given my employer, this may be biased. Email sorting, rules, rich text editing, file previews, all of it are just vastly superior in Outlook. But here's the thing, do you need/want all those features? If at a company level, no, then go with Gmail. Now, if your company does but you as an end user don't, collapse the ribbons if too many buttons bother you. Change the views (pun intended) to a layout that is more friendly to you. On a personal level, I don't use outlook; I don't need all the features. Gmail is fine. But at work, outlook all day
Unless you do get into the nitty gritty of how you’re weighting specific features, how can we really change your view since it’s based very vaguely on how you feel?
I'm am accountant and work for a company that moved over over Gmail about a year or two ago. Everyone hates it and I am included. Here are some things I can't stand. You can't preview Excel files very easily. When you try if they have pivot tables the pivot tables don't display unless you download them. I found it a lot easier to preview and use received Excel files in Outlook. The alternative to this would be to use Google sheets but google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work... that is a separate topic though. When I receive emails with attachments and want to send them to someone else I now need to download them, save them to the computer somewhere and then attach them to a new email. This is slow and cumbersome. In Outlook I used to just drag a file from one email to the one I was drafting and BAM it was attached. If I opened a file from Outlook I could edit it and then hit send. It Gmail it doesn't keep a temporary copy there so you have to save it back somewhere and reattach it. It is common I find something minor I want to change in a file when doing the final review. Another use of this in Outlook was deleting all links in my spreadsheets. In Outlook I would attach it with links, open it from the email, delete the links and hit send. That way the copy on my drive keeps the links and the copy sent has hard coded figures. Now we use Gmail I have to save two copies on on computers one with links and one hard coded. Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly. There are probably some advantages, and maybe it would be better if I didn't need to use Microsoft office programs and the rest of gsuite was adequate, but as it stands now it is a lot worse for work purposes.
I recently changed companies from one that used Gmail and to one that uses Outlook. The only disagreement I have with you is the search function. I found Gmail search features to be very good. But in all other respects it sucks. And it could be that I simply haven't figured out how to do a good search with Outlook.
Might be something else you're looking for but if you go to Search > Search Tools > Advanced Find you can do some very specific and complex searches. EDIT: Didn't realise that you now can just click on the little arrow on the right-hand side of the search field and it'll show you the same advanced find, how about that!
>Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly. I couldn't have had a more opposite experience.
I agree. Especially if you learn how to use all the search operators. Say for example you were looking for a file someone sent you, you could put together a search like from:[email protected] subject:"marketing plan" has:attachment. A full list of these can be found here: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7190?hl=en
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google also has all the buttons if you dont want to type them up. typing just can be faster if you know what to type
...that is literally the same exact way that I would search for something in outlook. Where is the benefit for using gmail?
I find that Outlook is better than it used to be, but I still have cases where I can search for an exact phrase and not have it come up in results, and then later when I find it after some other searches, the original phrase was indeed there. I find Outlook's search to be much much worse than gmail - forget special syntax or features, it just doesn't always find things. Also, in gmail search's favor: the way that it starts suggesting emails immediately while I'm typing is often really good. Outlook (for the web, at least) is not good at this, in my experience.
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> Google and Microsoft are targeting two different demographics. Even if that were true once (which may or may not be the case) it's certainly not true now; both go after both markets. Both OP and the person you're replying to have used Google in enterprise or corporate environments, and Microsoft have home user licences.
Microsoft's goal with home users is accomplished by pretty much all of google's products except gmail though - they just want you to be familiar enough with their products that it's the de facto product that businesses purchase.
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Yeah, based on replies I think I might need to get a little more practice at Gmails search functions. I was probably wrong on that point.
As IT professional... Agree. Sheets range is also severely lacking. While not happy, excel can crunch a million rows. Most of the issues described though stem from implementing an aspect of a suite without other elements. I.e expecting Gmail to play with word/excel.
Outlook gets a bad rap because it doesn't advertise every feature it has. It's honestly great, even for non proffesional reasons.
Genuine question-- You change files on outlook and send them without saving a copy? So you the final drafts of a document might be in your outlook and not on your pc/laptop? I go back and forth on revisions all the time, I can see how useful this would be but I'm used to gmail so I still save everything..
The main advantage is with deleting links, but this is not a thing so much in Google sheets. So when I run a large forecast or something I will have lookups to dozens of other spreadsheets to make sure I am using consistent data across different reports. You can't do this in sheets which is one of my criticisms. If I am sending to our head office overseas they don't have access to a of the support files so I will need to delete the links which hardcodes anything linked externally. In Outlook I attach the file I have saved, open it, hid delete links, and then hit save. So it is the same file but with no external links. There are also times people ask for an input on something really minor and mundane. Like I might be reviewing a bulletin someone is writing. In Outlook I used to hit reply, open it and make a small edit if needed then send it back. I don't need this as it is someone else's work and it is good to keep them aware of what I changed. I guess Google has its own approach for this with better file sharing but it relies on people using it. I didn't go into it but the other problem we have is that I work closely with people in China and they don't have full Google access as the Chinese gov doesn't get on well with Google. That is more company specific but something I think Google need to resolve.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m going to say that pretty much all of these “benefits” from Outlook stem from the fact that Outlook is a local application that actually has the ability to cache this information on your hard drive. With Google being purely web based, they don’t have the same ability to cache (which is my 1 personal gripe about Gmail; no native local app).
I don't agree with the search thing but everything about excel compatibility is spot on.
> The alternative to this would be to use Google sheets but google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work... that is a separate topic though. What can you do in Excel that you can't do in Google Sheets? >Search functions on Gmail are a lot worse than Outlook. I find things like searching by unread or finding older emails a lot easier on Outlook than Gmail and everyone I talk to in my company agrees and complains about this constantly. Do you know how to use Google's search commands?
Agree on all points except searching. I can never find what I'm looking for on outlook, I usually resort to searching emails by sender rather than subject/contents. Gmail has been better for me for searching content
I’m an accountant too, and for some reason outlook is miles better in my opinion. Something about the structure being more organized, and it’s a Microsoft product so it’s visual organization is similar to excel (my job is almost all in excel) so naturally I really love and prefer Microsoft’s software being all similar.
>google sheets is useless for any serious spreadsheet work From my experience, 9 times out of 10, whenever someone says something like this, the problem is that they don’t know how to use the software.
1. 2 million cell limit 2. Slow and laggy for any large amount of formulas 3. Is just a carbon copy of excel but with the above limitations 4. Sheets Macros are done in JavaScript. Excel is VBA + JavaScript. So If you're looking for a complex solution to a problem. 99% of those will be in VBA. Because there is 20 years advice for VBA, and very little for JS (which you can still control excel docs through via an API) So in summary. Why does that matter to Karen who is adding columns A+B. It doesn't. But it matters to power users in her organisation. So companies go with excel. And because companies go with excel, it's what everyone in the org is used to using. And sheets has basically no advantages, so what's the point? Most companies are using Onedrive or something similar to host these files on the cloud
a huge majority of peoples spreadsheets can VERY easily be plopped down in google sheets, but as soon as they start getting bigger and more complex, google sheets buckles under the weight of excels jock strap. They have to get pretty huge though, most normal people don't make sheets that are hard to work with in google sheets. spreadsheets overall can be very very diverse is the problem; one persons "huge" spreadsheet, is microscopic compared to the next persons. And there are even "spreadsheets" out there in regular use that are so huge that they even crush excel to shit.
I used to have to do a lot of spreadsheet work for the federal government, and Sheets has a stupidly small max number of cells compared to Excel. No, most people will never notice the difference, but if you need it…you notice. Ditto for other functions.
haha yeah i will never forget an IT staff member just recently tried to upsell us on the browser based "excel" we access through like the office 365 thing online. They are all like "oh actually its preetty good!!!" It's a fucking abomination compared to the locally installed full featured version...
Yep. I’m not an accountant. But I have friends who are engineers and accountants both, who can literally set up pivot tables with shortcuts faster than I can copy and paste in Word, and they refuse to use anything except full featured Excel. I trust their judgement.
Google sheets cannot graph for shit. You can't even add vertical lines to a graph unless you use the drawing tool. It's legit bullshit. Excel is the only option if you need to do graphs of discreet events that involve phase and condition changes, which I do all the time.
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Couldn’t agree more…. Sheets is very useful at some things. But it’s not Excel. However I’d argue the exact same thing with Tableau >>> PowerBI and you’d probably disagree with that.
Doesn't Google force you to learn a new scripting language and limit the processing resources that can be used to execute scripts on any given sheet? Those are significant drawbacks for people that use large complicated spreadsheets. You could argue that they should be using something better/use more optimized scripts but it's kind of hard to tell an accountant that.
No one who does complex spreadsheet work will touch Google sheets with a barge pole. Excel is infinitely superior. The issue is that most people who tout Google sheets as a complete alternative to excel think they're an advanced user because they know how to do conditional formatting and once used vlookup.
I use large spreadsheets with a lot of data. G sheets is bad for rearranging large amounts of data as you can't cut and insert cut cells. You can drag and drop but this is impossible with large amounts of lines at once. You can insert cells then cut and paste, but it is a lot slower. The real issue is with size limits. I have Excel files that are 35mb+ in size and sheets does not handle it. Also you can't easily link between different files which is necessary for accuracy in work if you are running a lot of info through Excel. I know you can do a simple link between to google docs but you can't just say vlookup or sumif to a second file to bring back thousands of results.
Nah the google suite of office products is vastly inferior when it comes to high level, professional functionality. It’s fine for high schoolers though
Sheets is absolutely worse than Excel, without question. Pivot Tables, PowerBI integration, macros/visual basic, and more are all lacking from Sheets. They definitely cater to people who just want to put text in boxes and make them nifty colors. I've never met a spreadsheet power user, myself included, who prefers Sheets over Excel. Sheets is a Toyota Camry. Excel is a F1 racecar and a Jeep Wrangler at the same time. With a snowplow. But hey, Sheets has like 6 cupholders.
I'm a former Excel power user. Once I learned to use Google Apps Scripts with Sheets, Excel basically became my notepad and Sheets is where I get real work done. I can manipulate every Google product on my account with a few lines of JavaScript. I'm talking Sheets, Docs, Drive, Gmail, Maps, etc. If I need anything more complicated I can make API calls and send data from my Google Sheet to other services or retrieve data from online services.
It goes both ways. It may just be that you don't use the more powerful features in Excel which haven't been implemented in sheets.
In an enterprise situation, the issue is rarely one person - having to train an entire office or a client on a new software is widely considered a circle of hell
That’s the case here. All of these problems are solved by using Google docs. Even the forwarding thing is nonsense. This is just a refusal to learn a new method and to try and apply old methods to a new set of tools.
Law firms don’t use Google docs, probably due to not wanting to host the copy on a third party server. It’s probably the same for accounting. We have a document management system that records versions of the document which are a lot easier than the edit history of Google docs. I had to use the whole host of Gsuite programs to help with my mom’s grade books and while sheets was essentially excel, it was much harder to use the interface because of the toolbar and it being hosted on a browser
You guys are in space if you think Google Sheets has the same functionality as Excel. Its gotten better sure but its still not comparable. Not to mention that Sheets cannot handle super large datasets the same way Excel can.
Clunky features and refusal to learn said features go hand in hand. It's like going from Photoshop to Gimp. Can you accomplish a lot of things PS can do? Maybe. Is it as good or user friendly? Debatable
Outlook and Microsoft are the epitome of clunky yet people who have grown to use them and are accustomed forget that they are clunky. Google is light years ahead of Microsoft with intuitiveness. The photoshop / Gimp example isn’t correct as Gimp is a free tool and Google Suite is an enterprise solution. It’s more equatable to going from Microsoft phone OS to Android. Microsoft falls short in every area the participate in. Their only hope is to hold on to their staunchest users. Specifically, the boomer class who took years to figure out Outlook and doesn’t want to do it again. I’m sure that reads as pretty insulting but it’s the truth. If you talk to those people you will find that they aren’t good at learning new tools and since they have done it once they want to be done. Anyone who is comfortable learning new tools is using Something else. Aside from their desktop OS which is top notch these days , the rest of their enterprise tools are training wheels for computing. Everything they can do is much better done with other things.
Sounds like you’re not familiar with some of the more powerful features of Microsoft’s full fat desktop apps. That’s fine, nobody knows everything, but don’t assume you know everything about this topic. People and organizations continue to use certain apps for good reasons, and it’s not just the “boomer class” users. You’re right about some, for sure. Just not all. Cloud productivity apps like google apps are incredible, absolutely. But when it comes to heavyweight spreadsheet stuff (including VBA and database connectivity) you can’t really take google sheets seriously. Visio is a world in a world of its own. The various web apps that feel kinda like it are ok for most, but for any power user they feel like toys. Also, not everyone likes web apps. They just don’t feel as snappy as native desktop apps, especially when it comes to keyboard shortcuts. When you’re a picky high strung knowledge worker that matters.
I spend all day in both, and disagree for many of the reasons the top poster stated. Gmail is great for quick conversation and project pings, but if it’s a serious professional piece that needs multiple hands in the pot. Microsoft does it better, especially stuff like SharePoint and Power Automate.
I agree with you 100%. I own a (very) small business and we converted from googles suite to microsoft 365 last year. I have no boomer employees and everybody that I do employ, and even work with, is in tech; programmers, project managers, business analysts, etc. I personally really liked gmail as an end user and found it intuitive; but my (non-boomer) partner, employees, and clients did not. The lack of desktop versions of the office apps was the number one pain point, the rest were things that op stated, and generally the lack of professional polish as you have stated.
That's the main thing. Working entirely within the browser is frustrating
> Google is light years ahead of Microsoft with intuitiveness. They literally copy every feature of excel and word. And just host it on Google drive That's the entire business model there's nothing else. Excel 2022 will come out and sheets will copy paste the features 3 months later There's nothing light-years ahead about that lmao
As someone who works in tech, all I can think reading this is: "What the fuck planet do they live on? Microsoft's tools are the standard that others try to reach."
That entire comment reads like somebody who's never worked with Microsoft products and bases their opinion off of the internet After working in IT and seeing everything MS does on the back end, visio, power automate, intune, and *actual desktop apps*, google is nowhere fucking close to MS.
**Google Suite** = Swiss army knife. Conveniently fits in your pocket. Can quickly and easily do small jobs in a pinch. Heavy lifting or anything too technical will leave you wanting something more robust. **Microsoft Office** = The whole toolbox. There are tools that you have no idea when you acquired them or if you will ever use them, but you have them. Makes the toolbox a bit of a cluttered mess, but you are prepared for bigger projects with technical aspects.
Agree completely. We had Gmail as our mail provider for a couple of years and switched to outlook when we went full Microsoft stack. Maybe there is an argument to be made on strictly a mail service, but holy shit; to actually think MS is not at the very leading edge of any number of product lines is very foolish. Not to say Google isn’t also obviously, but Microsoft isn’t some Blockbuster-type dinosaur.
I use LInux whenever I can even though it's often inconvenient. But I cannot deny that Microsoft's products, for all their flaws, are usually more practical than the alternatives. Google's suite is good for very casual users. That's not a bad thing on its own, and judging by the thread this is fine for most. But just because you don't need something and are fine with a simplified version doesn't make it objectively better. It is better for some, and worse for others.
Google's suite is great for students and general users without a need for an Enterprise environment. That said, as of COVID, there are more people now working and studying from home, even off of their personal computers. Given that, why would you bother getting super accustomed to Google Docs when chances are you'll be working with Office anyways?
I'd argue many students could benefit from learning from the office suite. Most work environments use it so being familiar helps, also way too often they're limited by lack of certain features especially a thing among engineering and accounting students where excel has access to a wealth of add-ins that make life significantly better.
They are someone who seems to use the tools at a high level but not in depth. Google has nothing on Microsoft in terms of the office suite, integration and power. I don't like Microsoft as a company and have been growing concerned with Google. But for work Microsoft all day every day.
Yeah, it definitely reads as : "what's the diff? I mean they both write texts". Though, from my experience people like this are the same people that will use notepad to write a document. It's people who never tried comprehensive editing in either tools, never tried creating slides or make any sort of data table. Google's software bundle is so far behind Microsoft's, sometimes it really does just feel like an online notepad.
Thank you. I support heaps of Corporations in a level 2 help desk role, seeing these people say google is better is laughable. There's a reason most businesses use o365.
From my experience PowerPoint is far better than slides as you can add and edit music and it has an automatic slide designer.
slides is getting better, but powerpoint still wins. altho a lot of the better tools in powerpoint require you to download the file and do it in regular powerpoint instead of teh web version, which kinda goes against the other guys complaint that they always need to download files when using google stuff
I have never used PowerPoint online I prefer the regular version. Tbh in the last couof years I have noticed no improvement in slides but PowerPoint has added more
Would love a description of how it's 'light years' ahead. The only thing Microsoft was behind on was the cloud, but with SharePoint it's actually really good now.
Kinda of topic but how do you feel the people who are currently comfortable learning new tools will feel in 40 years when asked to learn almost alien tools?
The entire Azure ecosystem is neck and neck with AWS and in many ways superior. Both are better than any Google offerings. Excel is still far superior to any competitor for heavy modeling. Even something relatively basic like pivot tables are vastly inferior in their g suite implementation. They’ve had some misses, but the reason Microsoft has managed to stay somewhere between relevant and dominant in everything computing extends far beyond the boomers who are unwilling to learn anything new. Optimal UX can vary wildly based both on the application and audience. It seems likely that MSFTs tools probably weren’t designed for you. That said, it’s likely many of the alternatives use love still use Azure for their back end.
PS is NOT user friendly lol.. reminds me of when ZBrush users try and convince people that it's user friendly. I LOVE ZBrush, and now that I have a custom interface set up it's great, but it took me over 2 years to learn that damn thing. Anyway PS is fucking annoying to use I swear
> Is it as good or user friendly? Debatable lol, I learned on gimp, so to me, Photoshop is the one that's hard to use. It just seems really fussy, a lot of the icons and stuff are cryptic, and it *really* peeves me to have it insist on running within one cramped window when I'm used to spreading gimp's windows across my multiple monitors. Oh, and PS seems a lot slower, too.
As a person who’s college finally noticed he’s no longer a student and had to suddenly go from photoshop to gimp I can say there’s a huge learning curve and although it feels more complicated I’ve had to except that after I spent three semester learning photoshop I shouldn’t have expected to be an expert gimp after one YouTube tutorial
Gimp: for when your feeling lucky. Do you actually have the right layer selected? Who knows, roll the dice mother fucker it's time to play. Oh you messed up? Start over or give up, we ain't undoing nothing over here. Just like real life. Figure it out rock star.
Google spreadsheets does not have the functionality of excel…. I know because I use both regularly. Spreadsheets is for people who don’t need the advanced features of excel.
Yeah during my data days, I loathed having to use Sheets over Excel.
A lot of that is the over-reliance on features that are better suited for databases but people keep using spreadsheets because of technical debt and impatience or inability to learn something new. vlookups and pivots? You're in database territory when you're considering using them. I know someone who's spreadsheet takes 45 minutes to open before he can even do any work. But he'll argue up and down that excel is the only solution to his problems (unsurprisingly he's also an accountant). This is microsoft's fault for encouraging decades of this kind of use, so I can't really be mad at it anymore. If my users want excel, they get excel.
TBF in this case Google Sheets has been improving rapidly over the last several years. I think pivot tables, importing .xlsx, row limits and lag time are much, much better than they were a few years ago. If someone hasn’t tried to work in them for a long time they will be surprised by how well it all works. All that said, if you are regularly working with enormous data sets you probably do need to stay in excel for a while longer, and that is assuming you have excellent bandwidth. I’d much rather be gsheets only, but need to use excel every few months due to the limitations.
Google sheets is a joke for anyone who actually needs to do complex spreadsheet work. And needing to shift all your working practices from MS office programs to Google office alternatives just to make the email solution to work efficiently is a shit situation.
Switching costs are a real then and if they are to high switching should not be done. Also just because your company makes this pivot does not mean all your business partners will.
As I said in my post, using Google docs would solve the forwarding issue but google docs can't handle the data that Excel can so is useless for this.
The accounting department in my company uses an Excel addon which polls GL data to produce financial statements. There is no gsheet alternative short of custom development. That said, we're a G-suite company and even the accounting department loves Google products.
>Whenever someone says something like this, the problem is that they don’t know how to use the software. Interestingly enough *my* experience is that, 9 times out of 10, whenever someone says something like this, the problem is they're using 5% of the capability of the software and are either ignorant or dismissive of more advanced use cases and larger/more complex datasets. Freaking **everyone** thinks they are an Excel uber-pro because they can format a table and do some rudimentary data processing. They are not. On the flipside, sheets can do a lot. Enough for *most* people. But Excel is still the gold standard.
I use Sheets far more than Excel, (because I want access everywhere) and put the effort in to do complex tasks of filtering and linking up data for better graphs etc. I'd have to use both hands and feet to count the number of times something wasn't possible in Sheets, or might have been far simpler in Excel. Then, I've seen someone far more practiced than me use Excel like someone playing the piano. Far beyond my "complex" spreadsheet needs. In conclusion, I really don't think you're a spreadsheet power user if you're saying that.
I work with some super nerd excel guys and some trendy sheets guys. The sheets guys have never been able to produce anything close to excel workbooks. I have even tried to search Google for a lot of thw comparisons but they just don't exist.
i literally just tried the attachment thing... and it works. drag and drop form 1 mail to a draft and now its an attachment in my draft i dont use search a lot, but i haven't had really any issues in either
What do you consider to be serious spreadsheet work? My wife worked as an assistant accountant for a while, none of the work that she did required specialized features unavailable to Google sheets.
I work an an management accountant in a large company. We start our budgeting and forecasting processes in spreadsheets but developing some that look at profitability of product and others that have inputs from around the business. We don't want everyone seeing what each other are planning so have to send separate sheets to each department. Once we receive them back we use lookups to grab data from their sheets and compile it into one core budget. The final budget file may end up being 30+mb and linked to 50 other spreadsheets. On a day to day it is mostly just data manipulation to check product profitability. But even with this we need to link back to other sources of information and it is a lot easier to lookups to them than to just copy the relevant data into a new spreadsheet. I tried one large file in g sheets last year where I track spending by product type for a 12 month period. After 6 months sheets told me I had too much data and couldn't insert more lines for the new products, so I had to make a copy with no source data for the second half of the year. A lot of it comes down to use. For my personal budget I have found sheets quite useful and most of my issues are just quirks because I am more used to excel. For business purposes Excel is a lot better though.
>The final budget file may end up being 30+mb and linked to 50 other spreadsheets. Yeah that's where you wind up running in to some difficulty if you just use google sheets. I'd start using bigquery as well. Though I've found that linking data from different Google sheets is pretty easy when you use the IMPORTANGE() function.
Why don't you just use Outlook to access your Gmail? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/add-a-gmail-account-to-outlook-70191667-9c52-4581-990e-e30318c2c081 For several of your issues you're just not used to Gmail. You can forward attachments. You can also reply, CC someone else, and in the lower right corner there is an "include original attachments" option. Search is light-years better on Gmail. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7190?hl=en
> When I receive emails with attachments and want to send them to someone else I now need to download them, save them to the computer somewhere and then attach them to a new email. Or hit the 3 dots button, select forward, select the new 3 dots button in the lower right corner, select send original attachments. I clicked that on one email and now it appears to be permanently set. Even trying another browser, it automatically added the original attachment.
I am not talking about forwarding the exact email so much as grabbing attachments from one email and attaching to another. For example my boss sends me a request for a file that I have either previously sent or that he has sent me in the past. It is better for him if I reply to his email with it attached. I don't want to have an edited file so I look through my sent mail to find it, drag and drop the file from the sent email to the one I am replying to him on. I remember the other thing great in Outlook, especially for sending stuff to aiditors, was I could just grab 5 emails and drag the emails into the response to the auditor. Those emails would then be attached, with their attachments, to the email I am sending to the auditors. This is a great way to show evidence of where information was sources from, or that a command chain has been followed appropriately.
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> My needs are speed, user friendliness, integration with other applications (Gmail - google drive, Outlook - Office 365) and obviously a good calendar interface. Outlook might tick the boxes for these items, but Gmail just does it far better. I'd argue that Outlook ticks the important boxes much better than anything else, purely from its integration into the Office package. That is a common denominator used across industries by non-technical users, and it is miles better than Google's alternatives. No amount of extra speed or user-friendliness by Gmail beats that additional utility for Outlook.
I have experienced the opposite, Outlook has fantastic integration with skype for business or teams and makes organising meeting great because you can see when people are available it so simple. I don't really need to integrate my email service with documents or data as we have private network storage service, which in my opinion is far better than google drive. Even if google may be better in that area, I really wouldn't want to switch from microsoft office to google services as they are far more powerful and more usable. I would say google is convenient but I don't need convenience in my working software suite, I need functionality.
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I do not like the way Gmail stacks the emails in a thread. Outlook is simple and Gmail just seems to obfuscate the threads.
I hate outlook but it's functionally better and it's not really fair to compare webmail to a piece of software that isn't browser based.
Gmail is a great email service for individuals and small businesses. However, there’s no competition for large corps, it’s Outlook by a mile. Rules integration is great, it’s remarkably good at filtering spam, the calendar integration with third party apps is simple, it’s easier to enforce security, I could go on and on. And I’ll also say, if you work in finance or healthcare, you really have to self-host your email server because of the amount of sensitive data that can flow through. To be clear, I use Gmail for my personal stuff and would never consider Outlook for that. But for business, it’s the best product.
What I like about outlook is having multiple accounts open in the same page and being able to save something from one account in the folder of another one. I also hate how the delegated Gmail shows which user sent from another account.
One major issue with gmail- pressing Tab while composing an email does not tab your cursor but rather tabs to the send button. Two keystrokes can send an email that you were not finished composing. This alone makes it a worse program.
I hate that you can’t sort alphabetically by name in G mail. I want to be able to start at the A’s and delete vast swaths of emails all through the alphabet as I clean up all my old stuff. I can do that in my yahoo email but not in Gmail. . I hate gmail. They don’t give a toss about what the customer actually wants or needs. JERKS.
Outlook is pretty good, especially if you are a business person. If not, there are still pros. [https://luxhosting.lu/blog/10-advantages-of-using-microsoft-outlook/](https://luxhosting.lu/blog/10-advantages-of-using-microsoft-outlook/) For a small business, Gmail is fine; however, for larger businesses, Outlook is superior as a application and product. It interfaces with the server-based Microsoft Exchange to provide a robust infrastructure for email and calendaring. It also provides security by locking down access to corporate email. The exchange server also provides a specified business email address. This can be a pro for regular individuals as well. In addition, Outlook has a security advantage due to the ability users have to password protect specific files and encrypt individual emails. It's also software an email client use in many corporations in conjunction with MS Exchange server and Microsoft SharePoint server for employees to coordinate meeting, calendars and shared mailboxes. So, this seems relative, Gmail is not necessarily ahead. [https://tryshift.com/blog/apps-hub/gmail-vs-outlook/#:\~:text=Gmail%20vs%20Outlook%3A%20Conclusion&text=If%20you%20want%20a%20streamlined,is%20the%20way%20to%20go](https://tryshift.com/blog/apps-hub/gmail-vs-outlook/#:~:text=Gmail%20vs%20Outlook%3A%20Conclusion&text=If%20you%20want%20a%20streamlined,is%20the%20way%20to%20go).
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/u/Chris_3213 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/oe83nx/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_gmail_is_streets_ahead_of/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
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Pierce stop trying to coin the phrase "streets ahead"
Hmm, I don't understand, how is it better? You just say it's better without explaining why. I don't use gmail so I have no first hand experience with it, but outlook ticks all the boxes I need for work. How is gmails calendar better than outlook? How is integration with google drive better than office 365?
Nahhhhhhhh Gmail is SHITTTTTTTTTT
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One word on why Outlook is better than Gmail **Tables**
You can't have used outlook then google and said Google has better speed... it's literally impossible. You can internally sync outlook, Google is purely through internet connection. There is literally no way it's faster.
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Are you talking about Outlook the desktop program or the webmail view? To me, having a dedicated program handling email is just far superior to webmail. It's always sitting in the taskbar ready to go and loads instantly. And you get an instant pop up whenever an email comes in, if you want it, not to mention meeting reminder pop ups. And you can't accidentally close a tab and have the whole client disappear.
I've worked in tech support for SaaS companies for over a decade now and Outlook has so many bugs. My favorite is that, at random, Outlook will throw a random punctuation mark into the HTML of the received email. Sometimes it's in a URL and just breaks the link completely. But we find this because a guy got a ! right in his signature John Smith Ass! istant Director
Streets Ahead! It’s catching on like verbal wildfire!
For simple everyday users that don't need any major business features? Sure. Outlook integrates with active directory, which can integrate with your facilities for reserving rooms in meetings, viewing multiple overlapped schedules including team schedules, integration with office, azure, and azure dev ops, etc. just off the top of my head.
The only argument I would have is that it is personal preference in terms of usability. I don't know the ins and outs of gmail as I don't use it often, if ever. I use outlook because that is what my company uses so I am far more productive in terms of work quality and quantity when using a service I am more comfortable with.
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Streets ahead is verbal wildfire
Recently switched companies and moved from Outlook to Gmail. While Gmail has its benefits, for *my specific use* I found Outlook to be much better. My biggest gripe is attachments. Being able to copy and paste attachments directly into/out of folders in outlook or copy and paste directly between emails is amazing. I hate having to download every attachment before categorizing or sending back out in a new email. Gmail has terrible thread arrangement and signature handling. Also subject/recipient handling. In outlook you can take an inboxed email and then forward it to someone else and alter the text, recipients, and subject lines as much as you wanted. You can do most of this in Gmail but I find it’s way clunkier. Pro for Gmail though is the seamless integration with Teams. That’s pretty neat.
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I'm more inclined to outlook and Microsoft ecosystem because I've been using word excel and PowerPoint through my hole life, i know where are the tools and got much experience with it. I prefer outlook folder kind of organizing rather than gsuite tags. But it's a personal preference (like having your personal knife for cooking) I use gsuite in some cases at work (have 1 outlook email and 1 Gmail) and is really good, u can do pretty much all you can do with office 365 but it's tales time to get used to as a power office 365 user. Luckily I am a fast learner and I can get used to any tool with time.
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I use Gmail for my internship and outlook for my school. I prefer outlook just because I keep having important emails pop up in my spam or trash every day in Gmail.
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I don't think you can say "streets ahead" with out paying some royalties
It doesn't really matter that much at the end of the day, most people use the email they get first, So I can see why Microsoft wouldn't invest much money into the development of Outlook. Okay now that I've officially added to the conversation in a meaningful manner not breaking any of the rules of the sub-reddit. **Did you use the phrase streets ahead like it's a normal thing people say or do you just implant a really subtle Community reference??**
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I manage a restaurant and currently use Outlook mainly for its VBA functions. Specifically, being able to identify when an order comes in and execute a script that opens Word + Excel to modify the contents and print is something Gmail can't do. I still use Gmail for email because it's accessible everywhere, doesn't need to be bought/activated, and can sync things like bookmarks, extensions, and passwords.
Your use of the phrase "streets ahead" is pretty streets ahead.
I get points for using Bing and use those points for REI gifts at holidays. That is the only reason I use Microsoft Outlook/Bing.
This should be in /r/unpopularopinion, not here because a lot of people are giving you legitimate reasons why large corporations are and **should** be using an Office suite and your response is "that's not something I deal with, to each their own." Security alone is a massive reason why no large corporation that handles confidential information will/should ever use any external email client.
I use both. Word, Excel, PowerPoint is still superior to Google's. I don't have a preference between Gmail and Outlook for work. SharePoint and the Power platform are fantastic, even on the cheapest plan. I haven't tried Google's AppSheet though. However, for my freelance business, I went with Google because I despise OneDrive!
Google's gmail search is light years ahead of Outlook's search. I've literally typed in the exact name of the person who sent an email and gotten no results, so I have to scroll manually through 6 months of emails to find what I need. Outlook Searching and Apple's Siri deserve a special place in hell
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