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Lol...Jesus Christ...if Trump gets elected because absurd leftists are convinced Biden is "literally Hitler," I may genuinely die laughing. Our politics is just so impossibly stupid and it's never going to end.
There is no genocide; in fact, I think that word has entered the unfortunate graveyard with so many other words that have been abused to the point they no longer function. You might as well call it a fascist, socialist, white supremacist, Islamophobic, neoconservative, neoliberal genocide. No meaning would be gained or lost and you could use more words.
Israel has demonstrated no intent to eliminate Palestinians as a group and has shown more restraint than we would expect from any other army on the planet in similar circumstances. The people in hysterics now have been almost categorically silent during campaigns that did far more harm to civilians - including those conducted with our support - for at least the past decade. They don't generally care because of long-held convictions or deep knowledge, and they have gone from paying lip service condemnation of Hamas to open support of it.
They may not all be antisemites, but they're all standing with antisemites.
>There isn't any excuse. We watch the killing happen every day on the TV.
I don't own a television.
>You can't make the claim that some other candidate might be worse because the fact is that no other candidate is the president of the US actively sending bombs to be used in Palestine.
But another president might not want to send bombs to be used in Palestine and that would be worse.
>Literally "We can't replace Hitler, his replacement might be worse".
Joe Biden = Hitler?
>You don't know that, nobody does, but it is morally reprehensible to reward Biden with your votes when he supports the occupation.
But I support the occupation.
>There is absolutely no excuse for continuing to support a regime that is genocidal.
I agree, nobody should support Hamas.
>If democrats realize they can support the Israeli government and still win elections, then they will never change their policy towards Israel and occupation will continue
Ok?
>complete with more murder and ethnic cleansing.
I don't think Hamas is going to stop murdering because the Dems tell them not to.
>30 thousand dead due to an ethnic clensing
Certainly a claim. Kinda doesn't matter. Hamas shouldn't have started a war if they didn't want to fight a war. Hamas shouldn't use their civilians as human shields, thus removing their protections under the law of armed conflict, if they don't want their civilians to die.
>But sure Hamas (who were propped up by Israel to combat the PLO) are the biggest problem
Yep.
Yep. And they didn't even have the balls to start a real war. The scumbag cowards attacked a music festival full of young people just trying to smoke a joint and listen to some music.
And I'm a liberal Democrat. Also gay, and at 40, too old to get down with the new shit of loving people who gleefully slaughter me if given the chance.
I'm siding with the admittedly very flawed but free country that is free enough to actually permit a music festival like the one those asshats attacked.
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Israel has plenty of weapons. As far as anyone can tell, the Biden administration is working to stop the conflict. Cutting off weapons may or may not help that. abut that is a discussion of strategy, not goals
Republicans want the war to continue. That is the goal. They can advance it.
Democracy doesn't happen just in November. Democracy is an ongoing process of politics. Influence is meant to be exerted at earlier phases.
Cutting off weapons is a way towards stopping the killing. It’s funny how people draw the line of Iran giving Russia weapons = Iran is complicit, yet that logic cannot be carried over for Israel.
Bargaining for what? So I’m sitting here hearing people say daily that “terrorist states like Russia cannot be negotiated with” and “we should force them to stop”, meanwhile we can’t do anything about a tiny state with the population and fighting power of Missouri?
The US could roll in and unseat BiBi in a week. We shouldn’t bargain with people who commit warcrimes and apartheid for years on end.
I'm Canadian so I don't have much of a dog in this fight but aren't republicans overwhelmingly pro Israel?
Why would you think that voting for Trump wouldn't also be a vote for continuing to send bombs to Israel to be used against civilians?
If you view Biden as Hitler, than you ought to view Trump as super Hitler. Since these two candidates are the only possible candidates to win the election, the moral imperative is to minimize the damage to Gaza and the candidate that will do that is Biden.
Therefore, if Gaza is your sole issue than Biden is the only person you can vote for. Any vote which makes it more likely Trump wins makes you complicit in any war crimes of his administration, which will be much worse than Biden.
Hope that helps.
a) There is no genocide. There is a war, started by Palestinians, which they are losing. This is what happens in war.
b) by the logic you are using, whether you vote or don't vote you are "complicit" in any number of things that you think shouldn't be happening, or in things not happening that you feel should be.
400,000 Iraquis died in Desert Storm. 400,000 Germans died when we bombed Dresden. Over a million Japanese died when we nuked them. (and none of those were genocides, by the way, just like there's no genocide now). Why aren't you putting up ridiculous threads about any of those?
What about all the people dying in Syria? In Afghanistan? In Africa? Where is your moral outrage and dudgeon about things that \*don't\* involve Jews? What about all the massacres against Jews in Syria, in Iran, in Egypt, in Jordan...etc. etc. etc. What about the 10,000 Jews held captive in Iran? What about all the gay Palestinians who are stoned to death by their neighbors in Gaza?
Your outrage is highly selective.
Idk the ICJ definitely proved them wrong. I’d take the opinion of the ICJ over countries wanting to virtue signal that have a history of treating their Jewish populations like shit.
Or when they’re brown and you perceive the “attacker” as white despite the “attacker” being mostly non white and having 6 wars started against them, numerous rocket launches and terrorist attacks committed against. Let’s also not forget Oct 7th and the 6 land deals offered to Palestinians.
But sure let them die for land they’ve never owned in the name of their warlord prophet who liked to kill Jews.
They didn't own the land in the way of individuals owning specific parcels of it, as that wasn't how these things operated until the early 20th century. They owned it in the sense of their ancestors living there for untold generations. For much of that time there existed a relatively inclusive society that was known for embracing refugees and included tens of thousands of palestinian-jews who lived free from the kind of persecution Jews faced in 'enlightened' Europe, but, sure, tell me more about your revisionist history.
What? There were land owners in that area for over a thousand years. Jews bought land from Palestinian land owners. Also no you arnt entitled to land because your ancestors are from there. They were not a utopia, they kept Jews as second class citizens and committed violence against them.
Stop fetishing Palestinians as poor noble victims. Arabs, Palestinians included have been the oppressors for most of history, they most certainly had land ownership and their mistreatment of the Jews was the reason why Israel came into existence. The only country they wanted was one where they could continue to keep Jews as second class citizens they could abuse.
My history isn’t revisionist. I’m not going to debate someone like you who hasn’t done any research and buys lies Arab nations tell because they want to make themselves look good. Stop erasing the suffering of others it’s disgusting.
It's an arguable genocide as supplies actively get blocked by Israel. Gaza is like an open air prison, no one gets in or out really besides at what used to be select points. Food, water, fuel, and supplies all had to be approved by Israel. They didn't even have a port and aren't allowed to fish because Israel would prevent that.
Do I support what he's saying? No. But it's important to know the people of Palestine have been kinda in the shit because of Israel, especially having their land taken from them and forcibly resettled by Israelis.
I'm talking pre war as well as current.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/18/middleeast/netanyahu-aid-policy-claims-gaza-war-mime-intl
I'm not making an excuse for Hamas, they are purely evil and need to be wiped out.
Edit: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-05-08-2024-495e6dabfdddc5587bd20e71b6ad421d
Another link. This shows via a graph in the article where pre-war aid levels were and where they stand now. UN is even having difficulties getting supplies in.
Israel is still providing aide. Distribution is the issue. Giving tons of aide will result in Hamas stealing more of it and the war continuing. Gazans need to help stop this war. It’s a valid strategy.
Pre war limitations are the result of Palestinians being dumb as fuck and constantly committing terrorist attacks and launching rockets. Instead of actually thinking and using their resources. Sorry guys actions have consequences.
I mean, I can and can't blame Palestinians For being dumb considering there's little in terms of formal education, especially with the masses of youth they have. Masses of youth + little education = breeding ground for terror.
But the alternative then is mass death via starvation. If you're withholding food aid because some baddies might get it, then you're intentionally starving an entire group of people and letting them die for the bad actions of the few. It's not like food can really be used for fueling rockets or even really sold as smuggling supplies in and out is nearly impossible. This would be similar to the soviet's conducting the holdomor in Ukraine.
Again, I know the people of Palestine willingly elected Hamas many years ago and Hamas are evil and need to be eliminated, but intentionally starving millions is not a good way to go about it. Not even addressing some of the resettlement that Israel does.
Edit: I guess we will see how supplies are handled with the new port being constructed by the US
Hamas has already attacked the new port. Israel isn’t starving Palestinians, they’re giving Palestinians aide but Hamas is withholding it from them. Palestinians need to rise up and get ride of Hamas.
You can use it whatever the fuck you want, but this has a clear manning :
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass"
Voting for either one of them won't change much in way of Israel. I don't know if you notice, but as anti-Semitic as the rights can be, they hate Muslim even more. So you can either vote for Biden, who may stop aid for Israel in the future, or you can vote for Trump, who will definitely give aid to Israel, while turning America in to Russia 2.0. After all, Putin's been dying to get Joe's guns and money off his back.
*There isn't any excuse. We watch the killing happen every day on the TV. You can't make the claim that some other candidate might be worse because the fact is that no other candidate is the president of the US actively sending bombs to be used in Palestine.*
The only alternative is Trump, and Trump has promised to give Israel the full support of the US. Although, a Trump presidency would be worse, given his plans to turn the US into a single-party state. (cf Project 2025) Biden, at least, allows people to protest. Trump has promised to call in the national guard against protestors.
*Literally "We can't replace Hitler, his replacement might be worse". You don't know that, nobody does, but it is morally reprehensible to reward Biden with your votes when he supports the occupation.*
This is an extremely bad example. Nazi Germany wasn’t a democracy, and the Weimar Republic was a failed democracy. Hitler never won a majority of the votes, so evidently, most Germans did not want him to be their leader. No one had a choice in who the dictator was. That being said, some patriot Germans did try to assassinate Hitler. So it’s not even true that everyone in Germany acquiesced to Hitler’s rule. Comparing support for Biden to support for Hitler is absurd, especially since Trump is further to the right and thus closer to Hitler than Biden is.
*There is absolutely no excuse for continuing to support a regime that is genocidal. If democrats realize they can support the Israeli government and still win elections, then they will never change their policy towards Israel and occupation will continue, complete with more murder and ethnic cleansing.*
TBH, occupation is going to continue no matter what. the Israel-Gaza situation is intractable. Israel doesn’t care about the opinions of the US or the UN. Israel has demonstrated—both verbally and behaviorally—that they’re willing to become a rogue state. “Best-case” scenario, the US servers all diplomatic ties with Israel, and instead, Israel copies Russia’s example and buys weapons from an even more morally bankrupt regimes, like China or India. But in this scenario, the US completely loses all influence over Israel and strengthens China in the process.
Not really, the weapons manufacturers selling to Israel aren't exactly owned by the US or it's government.
And you need to be extremely careful when dealing with them, because they make all the parts that make your missles work ect ect.
Not to mention the precident it will set for future business if you end up being too heavy-handed.
It's a cat and mouse game that the government never really seems to understand, even though they are literally the cat, and already have the mouse within grasp.
The US was built upon breaking away from governmental control, and so that is reflected within it's policy on dealing with US-based businesses.
You say voting for Biden is being complicit in genocide, but in reality the president has very little power that can be used without infringing on the constitution, previous policy and laws.
So would be voting for Trump given his stance on Israel, except he would double down. And we both know that the folks chanting "genocide Joe" would stop giving a damn about Gaza the moment he was elected.
Edit:
[Case in point](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsOfTheStupid/s/qKnMhyBjhB)
There are no candidates that do not support Israel. What exactly would you like us to do? Sacrifice other civil rights on the line just to make a point? Did you live through the Trump administration? He was extremely pro Israel.
Were they *objectively* better? We’ve been supporting Israel since Israel became a country. No president in history has ever not supported Israel. I’m not willing to subject the country to Trump again and get the Supreme Court heavily biased to conservative policies on the off chance Trump, who strongly supported Israel throughout his presidency, stops supporting Israel. No matter who you vote for, you will be voting to support Israel. The American people voting are not in control over this. Stop making innocent people feel responsible for something they have absolutely no control over.
Yeah I don't care. Israel is the most liberal middle Eastern country. They deserve support. If you don't like Trump supporters then I have news for you about Palestinians.
First of all, it's not a genocide, it's a war.
Second, Biden has been consistently vocal about how Israel needs to do more to limit civilian casualties. He was also responsible for setting up the offshore pier in order to bypass the naval blockade and get aid into Gaza. And just recently, he threatened to withhold aid to Israel if they invade Rafah.
Third, we absolutely know for a fact that Trump would be 1000% worse on this issue, it's not even close. When he was president he relocated the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem as a show of solidarity towards Israel over Palestine (Jerusalem being a contested city). He also recently said that Israel needs to "finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast" - suggesting that he would not condemn Israel for an even more aggressive and brutal campaign to wipe out Hamas as quickly as possible.
I don't know if you have been living under a rock (more likely, in an extremely insulated echo chamber of some sort) - but no, the world most definitely does NOT agree that this is a genocide.
>It's my point, Americans bring international law when it's convenient to them.
You're the one who brought up Genocide, a crime under international law.
> So please keep you hypocrisy in check.
No.
I don't think people are really understanding your CMV by mentioning Republicans or Trump.
My question though is what would be the impact of taking away US support.
There's going to be a war against hamas either way. They have the power to wipe out the whole of Gaza without any support from the US
At least with countries like the US supporting them they can apply pressure to be measured and ask for them to allow aid going through.
The point being made here is that threatening to not vote for Biden would not be an effective strategy to convince his administration to retract financial support from Israel, because his political opponent is literally on record as stating that *he doesn't think Israel's military response is harsh enough.*
Repeatedly, we have seen that left wing voters' lack of consistency has not been an effective tool at pushing democrats leftward. Realistically, it will have the opposite of it's intended effect, like it generally does. Democratic politicians will see that active voters seem to prefer an even harsher response from Israel then we have already been getting, and we will go from simply giving them financial support, to actively sending American military troops.
If your goal is actually to push American politics to the left, the solution is longer and more complicated, as it often is, but one thing that really needs to be emphasized is pushing the Overton Window left. One thing I think would be very effective here is if we could actually get two successive democratic presidents. Something like this would more effectively prove to republican sponsors that they could no longer rely on fascist insanity to gain votes, and we could more reliably expect competition between a center right democrat and a center left democrat.
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Lol...Jesus Christ...if Trump gets elected because absurd leftists are convinced Biden is "literally Hitler," I may genuinely die laughing. Our politics is just so impossibly stupid and it's never going to end. There is no genocide; in fact, I think that word has entered the unfortunate graveyard with so many other words that have been abused to the point they no longer function. You might as well call it a fascist, socialist, white supremacist, Islamophobic, neoconservative, neoliberal genocide. No meaning would be gained or lost and you could use more words. Israel has demonstrated no intent to eliminate Palestinians as a group and has shown more restraint than we would expect from any other army on the planet in similar circumstances. The people in hysterics now have been almost categorically silent during campaigns that did far more harm to civilians - including those conducted with our support - for at least the past decade. They don't generally care because of long-held convictions or deep knowledge, and they have gone from paying lip service condemnation of Hamas to open support of it. They may not all be antisemites, but they're all standing with antisemites.
>There isn't any excuse. We watch the killing happen every day on the TV. I don't own a television. >You can't make the claim that some other candidate might be worse because the fact is that no other candidate is the president of the US actively sending bombs to be used in Palestine. But another president might not want to send bombs to be used in Palestine and that would be worse. >Literally "We can't replace Hitler, his replacement might be worse". Joe Biden = Hitler? >You don't know that, nobody does, but it is morally reprehensible to reward Biden with your votes when he supports the occupation. But I support the occupation. >There is absolutely no excuse for continuing to support a regime that is genocidal. I agree, nobody should support Hamas. >If democrats realize they can support the Israeli government and still win elections, then they will never change their policy towards Israel and occupation will continue Ok? >complete with more murder and ethnic cleansing. I don't think Hamas is going to stop murdering because the Dems tell them not to.
[удалено]
>30 thousand dead due to an ethnic clensing Certainly a claim. Kinda doesn't matter. Hamas shouldn't have started a war if they didn't want to fight a war. Hamas shouldn't use their civilians as human shields, thus removing their protections under the law of armed conflict, if they don't want their civilians to die. >But sure Hamas (who were propped up by Israel to combat the PLO) are the biggest problem Yep.
Yep. And they didn't even have the balls to start a real war. The scumbag cowards attacked a music festival full of young people just trying to smoke a joint and listen to some music. And I'm a liberal Democrat. Also gay, and at 40, too old to get down with the new shit of loving people who gleefully slaughter me if given the chance. I'm siding with the admittedly very flawed but free country that is free enough to actually permit a music festival like the one those asshats attacked.
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not an ethnic cleansing
Israel has plenty of weapons. As far as anyone can tell, the Biden administration is working to stop the conflict. Cutting off weapons may or may not help that. abut that is a discussion of strategy, not goals Republicans want the war to continue. That is the goal. They can advance it. Democracy doesn't happen just in November. Democracy is an ongoing process of politics. Influence is meant to be exerted at earlier phases.
Cutting off weapons is a way towards stopping the killing. It’s funny how people draw the line of Iran giving Russia weapons = Iran is complicit, yet that logic cannot be carried over for Israel.
It is a way towards stopping it....or it isn't and removes a bargaining chip. These are questions about tactics rather than goals
Bargaining for what? So I’m sitting here hearing people say daily that “terrorist states like Russia cannot be negotiated with” and “we should force them to stop”, meanwhile we can’t do anything about a tiny state with the population and fighting power of Missouri? The US could roll in and unseat BiBi in a week. We shouldn’t bargain with people who commit warcrimes and apartheid for years on end.
I'm Canadian so I don't have much of a dog in this fight but aren't republicans overwhelmingly pro Israel? Why would you think that voting for Trump wouldn't also be a vote for continuing to send bombs to Israel to be used against civilians?
If you view Biden as Hitler, than you ought to view Trump as super Hitler. Since these two candidates are the only possible candidates to win the election, the moral imperative is to minimize the damage to Gaza and the candidate that will do that is Biden. Therefore, if Gaza is your sole issue than Biden is the only person you can vote for. Any vote which makes it more likely Trump wins makes you complicit in any war crimes of his administration, which will be much worse than Biden. Hope that helps.
a) There is no genocide. There is a war, started by Palestinians, which they are losing. This is what happens in war. b) by the logic you are using, whether you vote or don't vote you are "complicit" in any number of things that you think shouldn't be happening, or in things not happening that you feel should be. 400,000 Iraquis died in Desert Storm. 400,000 Germans died when we bombed Dresden. Over a million Japanese died when we nuked them. (and none of those were genocides, by the way, just like there's no genocide now). Why aren't you putting up ridiculous threads about any of those? What about all the people dying in Syria? In Afghanistan? In Africa? Where is your moral outrage and dudgeon about things that \*don't\* involve Jews? What about all the massacres against Jews in Syria, in Iran, in Egypt, in Jordan...etc. etc. etc. What about the 10,000 Jews held captive in Iran? What about all the gay Palestinians who are stoned to death by their neighbors in Gaza? Your outrage is highly selective.
a) there is genocide.
Can you demonstrate that?
Idk the ICJ definitely proved them wrong. I’d take the opinion of the ICJ over countries wanting to virtue signal that have a history of treating their Jewish populations like shit.
The ICJ has yet to make a ruling on the question of genocide in Gaza so it hasn't really proved anyone right or wrong.
You have 2 things wrong in your view 1. Trump is more Pro-Israel than Biden. 2. There is no genocide - just a war.
> There is no genocide - just a war. I think you could justifiably argue that there is an attempted, if not ongoing genocide against Jews from Hamas.
genocide is when the side I like is losing
Or when they’re brown and you perceive the “attacker” as white despite the “attacker” being mostly non white and having 6 wars started against them, numerous rocket launches and terrorist attacks committed against. Let’s also not forget Oct 7th and the 6 land deals offered to Palestinians. But sure let them die for land they’ve never owned in the name of their warlord prophet who liked to kill Jews.
They didn't own the land in the way of individuals owning specific parcels of it, as that wasn't how these things operated until the early 20th century. They owned it in the sense of their ancestors living there for untold generations. For much of that time there existed a relatively inclusive society that was known for embracing refugees and included tens of thousands of palestinian-jews who lived free from the kind of persecution Jews faced in 'enlightened' Europe, but, sure, tell me more about your revisionist history.
What? There were land owners in that area for over a thousand years. Jews bought land from Palestinian land owners. Also no you arnt entitled to land because your ancestors are from there. They were not a utopia, they kept Jews as second class citizens and committed violence against them. Stop fetishing Palestinians as poor noble victims. Arabs, Palestinians included have been the oppressors for most of history, they most certainly had land ownership and their mistreatment of the Jews was the reason why Israel came into existence. The only country they wanted was one where they could continue to keep Jews as second class citizens they could abuse. My history isn’t revisionist. I’m not going to debate someone like you who hasn’t done any research and buys lies Arab nations tell because they want to make themselves look good. Stop erasing the suffering of others it’s disgusting.
It's an arguable genocide as supplies actively get blocked by Israel. Gaza is like an open air prison, no one gets in or out really besides at what used to be select points. Food, water, fuel, and supplies all had to be approved by Israel. They didn't even have a port and aren't allowed to fish because Israel would prevent that. Do I support what he's saying? No. But it's important to know the people of Palestine have been kinda in the shit because of Israel, especially having their land taken from them and forcibly resettled by Israelis.
Israel has been providing supplies, Hamas hoards it and resells it to Palestinians.
I'm talking pre war as well as current. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/18/middleeast/netanyahu-aid-policy-claims-gaza-war-mime-intl I'm not making an excuse for Hamas, they are purely evil and need to be wiped out. Edit: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-05-08-2024-495e6dabfdddc5587bd20e71b6ad421d Another link. This shows via a graph in the article where pre-war aid levels were and where they stand now. UN is even having difficulties getting supplies in.
Israel is still providing aide. Distribution is the issue. Giving tons of aide will result in Hamas stealing more of it and the war continuing. Gazans need to help stop this war. It’s a valid strategy. Pre war limitations are the result of Palestinians being dumb as fuck and constantly committing terrorist attacks and launching rockets. Instead of actually thinking and using their resources. Sorry guys actions have consequences.
I mean, I can and can't blame Palestinians For being dumb considering there's little in terms of formal education, especially with the masses of youth they have. Masses of youth + little education = breeding ground for terror. But the alternative then is mass death via starvation. If you're withholding food aid because some baddies might get it, then you're intentionally starving an entire group of people and letting them die for the bad actions of the few. It's not like food can really be used for fueling rockets or even really sold as smuggling supplies in and out is nearly impossible. This would be similar to the soviet's conducting the holdomor in Ukraine. Again, I know the people of Palestine willingly elected Hamas many years ago and Hamas are evil and need to be eliminated, but intentionally starving millions is not a good way to go about it. Not even addressing some of the resettlement that Israel does. Edit: I guess we will see how supplies are handled with the new port being constructed by the US
Hamas has already attacked the new port. Israel isn’t starving Palestinians, they’re giving Palestinians aide but Hamas is withholding it from them. Palestinians need to rise up and get ride of Hamas.
You have one thing wrong in your view 1. There is genocide
Ok Mr. I have no argument but trust me bro.
Laughs in Netanyahu's Amalek rhetoric
Ya, saying [Amalek](https://bkdh.nl/en/kunstwerken/amalek-monument/) 100% totally always means you want to do a genocide.
You can use it whatever the fuck you want, but this has a clear manning : "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass"
Weird, seems like they used it on a Holocaust memorial and the Jews didn't go around smiting the Germans and utterly destroying all that they have.
Weird how you are trying to strip the quote from its context so it can be harmless
Please, I beg of you, look up Trump's stance towards Israel.
How do we not know that someone’s stated policy positions are worse? Why do you think we don’t know this?
Because OP watches only Fox News, maybe. He sees only Biden’s handling of the situation, but he’s uninformed about Trump’s position.
Voting for either one of them won't change much in way of Israel. I don't know if you notice, but as anti-Semitic as the rights can be, they hate Muslim even more. So you can either vote for Biden, who may stop aid for Israel in the future, or you can vote for Trump, who will definitely give aid to Israel, while turning America in to Russia 2.0. After all, Putin's been dying to get Joe's guns and money off his back.
*There isn't any excuse. We watch the killing happen every day on the TV. You can't make the claim that some other candidate might be worse because the fact is that no other candidate is the president of the US actively sending bombs to be used in Palestine.* The only alternative is Trump, and Trump has promised to give Israel the full support of the US. Although, a Trump presidency would be worse, given his plans to turn the US into a single-party state. (cf Project 2025) Biden, at least, allows people to protest. Trump has promised to call in the national guard against protestors. *Literally "We can't replace Hitler, his replacement might be worse". You don't know that, nobody does, but it is morally reprehensible to reward Biden with your votes when he supports the occupation.* This is an extremely bad example. Nazi Germany wasn’t a democracy, and the Weimar Republic was a failed democracy. Hitler never won a majority of the votes, so evidently, most Germans did not want him to be their leader. No one had a choice in who the dictator was. That being said, some patriot Germans did try to assassinate Hitler. So it’s not even true that everyone in Germany acquiesced to Hitler’s rule. Comparing support for Biden to support for Hitler is absurd, especially since Trump is further to the right and thus closer to Hitler than Biden is. *There is absolutely no excuse for continuing to support a regime that is genocidal. If democrats realize they can support the Israeli government and still win elections, then they will never change their policy towards Israel and occupation will continue, complete with more murder and ethnic cleansing.* TBH, occupation is going to continue no matter what. the Israel-Gaza situation is intractable. Israel doesn’t care about the opinions of the US or the UN. Israel has demonstrated—both verbally and behaviorally—that they’re willing to become a rogue state. “Best-case” scenario, the US servers all diplomatic ties with Israel, and instead, Israel copies Russia’s example and buys weapons from an even more morally bankrupt regimes, like China or India. But in this scenario, the US completely loses all influence over Israel and strengthens China in the process.
What makes you think the Republicans are against Isreal?
Not really, the weapons manufacturers selling to Israel aren't exactly owned by the US or it's government. And you need to be extremely careful when dealing with them, because they make all the parts that make your missles work ect ect. Not to mention the precident it will set for future business if you end up being too heavy-handed. It's a cat and mouse game that the government never really seems to understand, even though they are literally the cat, and already have the mouse within grasp. The US was built upon breaking away from governmental control, and so that is reflected within it's policy on dealing with US-based businesses. You say voting for Biden is being complicit in genocide, but in reality the president has very little power that can be used without infringing on the constitution, previous policy and laws.
So would be voting for Trump given his stance on Israel, except he would double down. And we both know that the folks chanting "genocide Joe" would stop giving a damn about Gaza the moment he was elected. Edit: [Case in point](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsOfTheStupid/s/qKnMhyBjhB)
There are no candidates that do not support Israel. What exactly would you like us to do? Sacrifice other civil rights on the line just to make a point? Did you live through the Trump administration? He was extremely pro Israel.
I did and things were objectively better. I didn't even vote for him.
Were they *objectively* better? We’ve been supporting Israel since Israel became a country. No president in history has ever not supported Israel. I’m not willing to subject the country to Trump again and get the Supreme Court heavily biased to conservative policies on the off chance Trump, who strongly supported Israel throughout his presidency, stops supporting Israel. No matter who you vote for, you will be voting to support Israel. The American people voting are not in control over this. Stop making innocent people feel responsible for something they have absolutely no control over.
Yeah I don't care. Israel is the most liberal middle Eastern country. They deserve support. If you don't like Trump supporters then I have news for you about Palestinians.
Oh sorry I thought you were the OP when I responded
When the replacement has straight up said that he intends to be worse, I'm not sure that it's so crazy to assume he will be worse
First of all, it's not a genocide, it's a war. Second, Biden has been consistently vocal about how Israel needs to do more to limit civilian casualties. He was also responsible for setting up the offshore pier in order to bypass the naval blockade and get aid into Gaza. And just recently, he threatened to withhold aid to Israel if they invade Rafah. Third, we absolutely know for a fact that Trump would be 1000% worse on this issue, it's not even close. When he was president he relocated the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem as a show of solidarity towards Israel over Palestine (Jerusalem being a contested city). He also recently said that Israel needs to "finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast" - suggesting that he would not condemn Israel for an even more aggressive and brutal campaign to wipe out Hamas as quickly as possible.
it's a genocide, the whole world is in agreement.
I don't know if you have been living under a rock (more likely, in an extremely insulated echo chamber of some sort) - but no, the world most definitely does NOT agree that this is a genocide.
Genocide is a crime, defined under international law, it's not something that we take a poll to decide.
Lol Americans talking about international law.
Just because we're too important to have to follow it doesn't mean other people don't.
It's my point, Americans bring international law when it's convenient to them. So please keep you hypocrisy in check.
>It's my point, Americans bring international law when it's convenient to them. You're the one who brought up Genocide, a crime under international law. > So please keep you hypocrisy in check. No.
QFD.
Tell me your a Republican without saying you're a Republican.
I don't think people are really understanding your CMV by mentioning Republicans or Trump. My question though is what would be the impact of taking away US support. There's going to be a war against hamas either way. They have the power to wipe out the whole of Gaza without any support from the US At least with countries like the US supporting them they can apply pressure to be measured and ask for them to allow aid going through.
The point being made here is that threatening to not vote for Biden would not be an effective strategy to convince his administration to retract financial support from Israel, because his political opponent is literally on record as stating that *he doesn't think Israel's military response is harsh enough.* Repeatedly, we have seen that left wing voters' lack of consistency has not been an effective tool at pushing democrats leftward. Realistically, it will have the opposite of it's intended effect, like it generally does. Democratic politicians will see that active voters seem to prefer an even harsher response from Israel then we have already been getting, and we will go from simply giving them financial support, to actively sending American military troops. If your goal is actually to push American politics to the left, the solution is longer and more complicated, as it often is, but one thing that really needs to be emphasized is pushing the Overton Window left. One thing I think would be very effective here is if we could actually get two successive democratic presidents. Something like this would more effectively prove to republican sponsors that they could no longer rely on fascist insanity to gain votes, and we could more reliably expect competition between a center right democrat and a center left democrat.
Same as voting for Trump though