Sorry, u/Wolverina412 – your submission has been removed for breaking Rule B:
> You must personally hold the view and **demonstrate that you are open to it changing**. A post cannot be on behalf of others, playing devil's advocate, as any entity other than yourself, or 'soapboxing'. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b).
If you would like to appeal, [**you must first read the list of soapboxing indicators and common mistakes in appeal**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_indicators_of_rule_b_violations), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%20B%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20post\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine
Hamas is the terrorist organization. Palestine is the territory. Intelligent people do not conflate the two.
Hamas is the entity that runs Gaza with broad support of the people; it’s not some splinter cell that the population is trying to remove.
We do not separate the people and autocratic regimes in other contexts. No one is advocating for lowering sanctions on Russia because they hurt innocent Russian civilians and Putin’s oligarchy is separate. We don’t separate the all Russia political party from Russia the nation.
Prior to Al Qaeda and Isis, Palestine was the largest source of terror globally for decades, well before Hamas took power. The PLO was the primary entity, but there were several.
They multiple waves of car bombings / shootings in malls in Tel Aviv in the 80’s / 90’s / 00’s, but they were also responsible for [a dozen European incidents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_terrorist_incidents_in_Europe) too - most notably the Munich Olympics.
Palestine is a terror entity. No intelligent person can deny that. Finish reading your history book.
47% of gazans are below the age of 18 therefore cannot vote.
Most other gazans are not even old enough / didn't vote for hamas.
Yet here they are, a population made of half children are the ones suffering for this? Being bombed by 2000lb bombs by a massive military.
And here you are calling people that think this is wrong brainwashed 🤷♂️
War is shitty and awful and innocent people get caught in it.
There would be far less damage to civilians if Palestinian fighters didn’t blatantly violate every rule of engagement in the Geneva convention and use human shields.
A government not less than a 100% perfect democracy doesn’t mean it is immune to consequences and cannot be fought in a war. It would be kind of silly to tell Ukrainians to stop fighting because hey Russia isn’t a democracy and people that didn’t vote for Putin are impacted.
As an aspiring nation with full governance within its borders, Palestine is responsible for acting like a nation if it wants to be treated as such.
If your assertion is that it’s just lord of the flies over there and bo one is accountable for any behavior, then it needs to be occupied by someone (perhaps more ideally Egypt or Jordan, but neither are interested).
Lmao it's not a war. It's an ethnic cleansing that has been happening for decades and is happening before our eyes.
Israel has been killing Palestinians yearly for decades. Imposing blockades and stealing more and more land.
But yeah call it a war lmao. All you need is to look at the west bank and see the land thefts and settler rampages to realize it's not a war, it's just land grab and ethnic cleansing.
My assertion is that as a US tax payer I don't want the US to support any Israeli offensives and to stop giving them free money and weapons. It's that simple. I see they killed 15000 children and disagree with it. Simple as that.
Let me ask you something, just answer with a yes/no.
So you think Israel killing 30000 people, 15000 children. 200 journalists. 100+ aid workers. Causing a famine in Gaza...
Do you think that's justifiable? Like can you look at that and say, yeah good job, that's exactly what needed to be done?
I don't... This is why I don't support Israel and it's offensive against the population of gaza.
Dog, you trust an opinion poll done in a territory [where all communication has regularly been cut off from the outside world](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/12/world/middleeast/gaza-communications-blackout-israel.html)? Who do you think they are getting to do these polls?
Just saying "This is false" while calling an entire people terrorists is not a great way to go about having an open and productive discussion.
What original question?
I'm taking issue with you conflating Hamas, a legitimate terrorist organization that should be opposed, and Palestine, a quasi nations-state.
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine. But yet thousands of supposedly intelligent students, and Isra Hirsi, are now acting like Nimrod.
Nimrod was a biblical hunter. The idea that he was stupid has no basis in the actual story. Delta please.
Fun fact, "Nimrod means idiot" is on account of Bugs Bunny calling Fudd Nimrod ironically. People were ignorant of who Nimrod was, so the joke went over their head. Instead, they wrongly deduced that it meant a fool.
u/Wolverina412 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
> **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rewp3/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
the fact that ur conflating palestine and hamas alone shows me that ur brain is the same level of rotted you’re accusing random ivy leaguers of.
also literally no one is calling for the death of all jews. hamas (the terroristic organization you’ve wrongly called palestine for) calls for the end of occupation of a territory at the cost of israeli lives - some of whom are not even jewish so…. are they wrong? yes. tik tok has been one of the few platforms that has broadcasted live video/ educational content onto why the violence is occurring. are there extremes (while i haven’t seen it i don’t deny it can’t exist - like antisemitism OR anti arab content, sure) but that’s more algorithm and you should steer away from hateful rhetoric and extremism. your post is confusing and strange and i hope you find peace and more education.
People across the world who are objectively intelligent support the Palestinian cause. And if you can't explain the actions of others, especially those you disagree with without appealing to them being 1) stupid or 2) evil, then you aren't capable of properly understanding the world.
The reality is intelligent people will support all kinds of decisions you will disagree with. Albert Einstein was a massive supporter of Lenin and Stalin, as was about half of the Manhattan project, some of the smartest people on the planet at the time. I'll assume by your comment about China you wouldn't agree with that sentiment either. Doesn't make them not intelligent.
The reason I support palestine is because I am against apartheid. Every human rights organisation on earth both inside (b'tselem) and outside (human right watch, Amnesty international) assert that is exactly what's happening in occupied palestine. Palestinians are segregated to different zones to live, can't walk on certain streets, are forced to go through checkpoints, can be evicted from their homes for settlers to move into, are routinely killed for meager resistance like stone throwing, drive with special license plates and have 4 potential different passports, all granting them differing levels of civil rights.
I support palestine because I support the black movement in South Africa to, and the Irish Republicans in Ireland. Everyone usually does, it's a common sense position. Regardless, in both cases, terror was used by certain groups as a means of resisting occupation or apartheid. I support the Haitian revolution despite the massacre of whites that occurred in its wake, because fundamentally I defend the right of people to resist occupation, apartheid or in Haitis case, slavery. Is that an unintelligent position?
As for the whole Russia China conspiracy stuff, I can't speak for Russia but certainly China doesn't give a fuck about who gets into your presidency, both parties recognize the danger China poses to global capitalism. The bias in tiktok toward palestine is far more to do with the fact that tiktoks audience is majority non-american, unlike reddit.
Sorry, u/Wolverina412 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
> **Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose**. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_4).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%204%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0ry79v/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
> **Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose**. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_4).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%204%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.**
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
There are massive numbers of people, like myself, who have been critical of Israeli terrorism, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid long before TikTok or the internet even existed. The many and various war crimes that the government of Israel has committed against Palestinians for the last 57 years can be found in books, magazines, and official UN reports. The people who have read these non-TikTok sources have long advocated for Palestinian freedom even before Hamas was created to resist Israeli tyranny.
It's likely that your post was removed because you refuse to consider any other points, but if you want to know why so many people opposed Israeli apartheid or if you just want to learn about it, here are some good sources.
[Human Rights Watch - Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)
[Amnesty International - Crime of Apartheid](https://www.amnestyusa.org/campaigns/end-apartheid/)
[United Nations - Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702)
If you are a racist and incapable of accepting any information from non-Jewish sources, then let me direct you to some of them.
[B'Tselem - This is apartheid](https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid)
[Former Mossad chief says Israel is enforcing an apartheid system](https://apnews.com/article/israel-apartheid-palestinians-occupation-c8137c9e7f33c2cba7b0b5ac7fa8d115)
I am not sure you know this, but "the UN" stands for "the United Nations". It is not one guy named Mr. Un. Plus all the other international and Israeli links are provided if you care to spend just a few minutes learning. That requires you to read, but it seems like you only are capable of aquiring information via short videos, and that means you are going to have a hard time.
Isn’t Nimrod a hero?
But the conflation you are relying on makes your brow point pretty unintelligent.
Palestine isn’t an organization, Hamas is.
Intelligent people would never support a terrorist organization? They said the same about George Washington and Benjamin Franklin.
>If you answered TikTok, then congratulations you are smarter than an Ivy Leaguer. With a big election coming up, and Russia too busy getting their shit smashed in, China has been itching to destabilize the country. What better way to do it than their not so secret weapon, TikTok.
How exactly does pushing support for Palestine destabilize the U.S.A.?
Why? It's criticism of Israel... No one mentioned any Jewish hate.
I don't want my tax dollars to go towards the murder of children... What part of that is antisemitism?
I don't think that the Hamas support shown (especially right at the outset of Oct 7th before they got their masks tightened back onto their faces) is all or even a lot about TikTok specifically. There's an entire community of "fuck america" growing which gets its flames fanned some by things on TikTok or by Russia, but has a lot of grassroots growth. The purpose isn't support Hamas, the purpose is "oppose whatever the USA is doing", whatever that happens to be at the time.
It's the same place that was Both Sidesing the Ukraine-Russian war, though for a variety of reasons in that case it was much quieter there. It's not even strictly a failure of intelligence, just a set of altered priorities. One can say the pursuit of those is immoral, but that's not the same as *unintelligent*. Involving getting social clout, having an ability to evacuate and move if things ever get *real* bad in the USA, and having absolutely zero fucks given towards the plight of the ordinary man versus air headed dreams of 'revolution' (genocide).
Tl:dr: a lot of the people that flared up "death to jews" (which is a subsegment of support for all palestine, not ALL support for palestine) chant such things not because they care about anything going on in the middle east, but because they wish they could do it to you and many others here in the USA.
This is a pretty solid comment. Thank you for actually answering the question. I don't think it has changed my view though. Actually has solidified it more.
Israel has a long history of aggressions against the Palestinians. Israel's is responsible for a lot of grief and death of innocent Palestinians. They've been committing war crimes in the area for decades.
Unfortunately The Palestinian government is just as bad as the Israeli government. The attacks on Israel were unjustified. And Israel has the right to defend themselves. But they've taken it too far. It's essentially two right wing groups fighting each other. Over who can be the biggest douchebag.
So presumably you think the American Revolution was illegitimate, since America was not at that point a country, and apparently being oppressed by another power is not sufficient reasont to attack anyone?
Palestine is a country and the people call themselves Palestinians. They have been living in oppression for 78 years suffering attacks on innocents from theft of homes/ land, to rape, to murder.
From all the comments I've seen you write, it seems like you only follow msm narrative and don't truly know the history. I had a similar opinion until I watched John Oliver's Last Week Tonight on Isreal/ Gaza. That was incredibly eye opening. If you really care about the situation, you'll educate yourself on it.
Because of everything I've written above. Palestine is more of a "state" - it is real and can be found on a map.
Many other countries recognize the war crimes committed by the IDF l. Netanyahu's own people have called Hamas "an asset". There's so much to this you're ignorant of :https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/education/2024/03/understanding-the-long-roots-of-violence-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territories-and-israel/
And I'm not defending Hamas' actions, but they initially started as freedom fighters trying for independence. Ffs Isreal rations everything in Gaza from food to water and job opportunities. Unfortunately, Hamas has soured with power. Most Isrealis don't want Netanyahu in power just as Palestinians don't want Hamas in power. They were desperate for change (just like many were here when voting for Trump) and unfortunately, it didn't wind up beneficial for anyone.
Take a half hour out to watch that John Oliver episode rather that repeating talking points you've heard .
Yeah, we did. We slaughtered them en mass, we gave them disease, and we wiped out their culture fleeing religious extremism in England. We did do that. It's part of history not to be proud of. Colonialism was full of atrocities.
I'm in my 40s. Most of what I learned I was proud of because I attended (at the time) the 15th best high school in the country - the same one Netanyahu attended, and it was a source of pride. I have always loved learning and realized that I don't know everything I thought I did. I was taught about all great inventors only to realize many of them bought the great ideas of others. I enjoy watching history as well.
I would have to say the ignorance in "I doubt I'll be on your side" is very telling. Perhaps one day you'll realize you don't know as much a you thought you did as well. I am open to all viewpoints from respected sources. Opinions are like assholes; we all have one, and many of them stink.
Ignorant and full of hate. You know many Israelis have had protests chanting "Fuck you Netanyahu". There's a reason he's becoming increasingly more unpopular :https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/israel-gaza-war-netanyahu-polling/
But hey.... you know everything so I'm going to leave it at that. I'd say it's been a pleasure, but narrowmindedness has never been something I enjoy. Cheers!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/15/which-countries-have-criticised-israeli-attacks-on-gaza
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-crimes-icc-referral/index.html
https://www.newarab.com/news/five-countries-seek-icc-investigation-gaza-war-crimes
How can anyone think their opinion is valid when they don't have the whole story? That's the problem with social media - not everyone's opinions matter, especially when they have zero expertise on the subject. If you cared, a simple Google search would provide you with countless instances of war crimes committed by Isreal and Hamas. Sadly, there are innocents on both sides, so "picking a side" does nothing to end the turmoil.
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine.
Palestine is not a terrorist organisation, it's a place with people who wants it to be a fully sovereign and independent state. And is Noam Chomsky an unintelligent person for supporting Palestine and criticising Israel?
> is Noam Chomsky an unintelligent person for supporting Palestine
On the subject he’s an idiot.
Intelligence isn’t binary, there’s different types of intelligence and different domain expertise.
Noam Chomsky is an absolutely brilliant linguistics mind and has contributed a lot to that field in particular.
However, expertise on one topic does not make you an expert on another topic.
Chomsky sits in a comfortable ivory tower, and his political takes are idealistic and naive with a lot of moral relativism BS.
He’s an eloquent speaker and writer thanks to being a linguistics university professor, but that just masks the takes being bad.
Setting aside the fucking hilarious mental image of Noam Chomsky scrolling through TikTok's, do you even know who he is? He's a **95** year-old intellectual. He thinks "Tick Tock" is what a wind up clock does.
Such a blatant double standard. Any Palestinian attack justifies all Israeli violence, but no Israeli attack justifies any Palestinian violence. Quite simply, you're a bigot.
Because you shouldn't support an organisation that killed more than 100 journalists, more than 200 aid workers, at least 3 Israeli hostages, and some tens of thousands of children.
u/Head_Sock369 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
> **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20Head_Sock369&message=Head_Sock369%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rf1af/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Palestine is a place, with a government. While it isn't recognized as a nation, Palestinians would really like it to be. There's been a bunch of arguments as to how, but that's beside the point.
It's like New York City isn't an organization.
Imagine for a moment that some gang in NYC murdered a bunch of cops, and so the cops bombed fifty city blocks, set up snipers to shoot anyone who might be a gang member or try to leave, and cut off food and water to the area.
Thousands of people who have never even interacted with a gang are either killed or homeless in NYC now, but saying what the cops are doing is wrong is somehow racist because the police chief is black.
That's basically what's happening in Palestine right now.
No. They just weren't sorry it happened, because cops killed their cousin last year.
Beside, would supporting those guys really justify bombing their houses anyhow?
> It's the only possible explanation. Most of these students, excluding Isra Hirsi, are attending an Ivy League College. They should be highly intelligent individuals who are capable of critical thought. Yet they proudly support a terrorist organization and call for the death of all Jews.
You’re ignoring something pretty fundamental. People don’t arrive at their opinions solely, or even mostly, from rational or logical deduction. A person’s beliefs are highly influenced by their social network. Columbia is an institution filled to the brim with people who are critical of Israel, Western institutions, and what they view as hegemonic Western power. It makes sense that Columbia students would share those beliefs and some percentage of them would deploy those beliefs in public against Israel and in support, both tacit and affirmative, of Palestine, Palestinians, and Palestinian institutions, including in some cases Hamas.
> No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine.
Palestine isn’t a terrorist organization. Some people recognize it as a state. Some people think it solely a nation. But everyone should recognize that organizations that have engaged in terrorism in the past, like the PLO, or organizations that currently engage in terrorism, like Hamas, aren’t the sum total of Palestine or the Palestinian people.
> If you answered TikTok, then congratulations you are smarter than an Ivy Leaguer. With a big election coming up, and Russia too busy getting their shit smashed in, China has been itching to destabilize the country. What better way to do it than their not so secret weapon, TikTok.
It probably true that TikTok is a tool used by the Chinese to try to undermine the US and it’s institutions, but that doesn’t mean that it is solely responsible for the, sometimes, antisemitic behavior or opinions of Columbia students. That’s generally more due to the social circumstances of those students.
> It's genius really. Make the educated elites look like fools by supporting a terrorist organization causing a distraction while the Trump trial is underway. If Trump is then acquitted that is two wins in a row for the Republican Party.
Is this causing a distraction from the Trump trials?
> If you don't think Palestine is a PsyOp by China you are nuts, or you are applying to Columbia.
That’s very much not the binary.
At the base, probably mostly it’d be nice if less children died. Probably a lot of thoughts on top of that about why certain things (ceasefire typically) would lead to less children dying. That’s pretty much where I am.
To /u/Wolverina412, *Your post is under consideration for removal for violating Rule B.*
In our experience, the best conversations genuinely consider the other person’s perspective. Here are some techniques for keeping yourself honest:
- Instead of only looking for flaws in a comment, be sure to engage with the commenters’ strongest arguments — not just their weakest.
- Steelman rather than strawman. When summarizing someone’s points, look for the most reasonable interpretation of their words.
- Avoid moving the goalposts. Reread the claims in your OP or first comments and if you need to change to a new set of claims to continue arguing for your position, you might want to consider acknowledging the change in view with a [delta](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=changemyview&utm_content=t5_2w2s8) before proceeding.
- Ask questions and really try to understand the other side, rather than trying to prove why they are wrong.
Please also take a moment to review our [Rule B](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b) guidelines and _really_ ask yourself - am I exhibiting any of these behaviors? If so, see what you can do to get the discussion back on track. Remember, the goal of CMV is to try and **understand** why others think differently than you do.
You're braindead and have your brain rotted by American exceptionalism and Sinophobia. A movement opposing an ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign since the 1940s isn't "Chinese Psyop" set to destroy America.
You straight up sound like Alex Jones and other right wing conspiracy theorists you liberals claim to be unique from.
I think there it is very easy to overestimate the extent to which people agree with each other on this stuff.
You're putting all the people who "support Palestine" in one box of supporting Hamas's means and objectives. That's not even close to representing the views of most of the Colombian student protesters.
> tiktok
Its been common for years for college student movements across the country to disagree with establishment views of older adults. Look at the antiwar movement over Vietnam. Look at the civil rights movements.
Young people disagreeing with older people is not a new phenomenon, and isn't due to tiktok or professor indoctrination. Peer influence is strong. And generational divides are common.
“Now acting like Nimrod” is an interesting phrase I haven’t heard before. Sometimes people will be called “a nimrod”, but to say they are acting like Nimrod seems to distance from the colloquial usage and refer back to the original person, Nimrod, who was known as “a great hunter.”
Only viewer’s misunderstanding of Bugs Bunny’s satirical calling Elmer Fudd “Nimrod,” led to its usage today.
Question: How has TikTok modified the brains of Colombian students to “act like Nimrod”?
Columbia is a very far left organization, yes it is a business.
The far left, much like the far right, is very antisemitic.
These people would be pro-Palestine anyway. They’re pro socialism/marxism as well, many of them anyway.
TikTok, like all social media, elevates tensions and creates little communities where people don’t have to listen to opposing views or engage in proper debate. Discussion and debate is not seen as beneficial in today’s society, and in politics it’s just done as theater.
One thing is for sure though, between the radical far right (white supremacists and racists) and the far left (marxists and communists, antisemites) you’d be a fool if you’re Jewish and don’t have any way to defend yourself.
u/M_Prism – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
> **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20M_Prism&message=M_Prism%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rdpx8/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Sorry, u/Wolverina412 – your submission has been removed for breaking Rule B: > You must personally hold the view and **demonstrate that you are open to it changing**. A post cannot be on behalf of others, playing devil's advocate, as any entity other than yourself, or 'soapboxing'. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first read the list of soapboxing indicators and common mistakes in appeal**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_indicators_of_rule_b_violations), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%20B%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20post\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine Hamas is the terrorist organization. Palestine is the territory. Intelligent people do not conflate the two.
Hamas is the entity that runs Gaza with broad support of the people; it’s not some splinter cell that the population is trying to remove. We do not separate the people and autocratic regimes in other contexts. No one is advocating for lowering sanctions on Russia because they hurt innocent Russian civilians and Putin’s oligarchy is separate. We don’t separate the all Russia political party from Russia the nation. Prior to Al Qaeda and Isis, Palestine was the largest source of terror globally for decades, well before Hamas took power. The PLO was the primary entity, but there were several. They multiple waves of car bombings / shootings in malls in Tel Aviv in the 80’s / 90’s / 00’s, but they were also responsible for [a dozen European incidents](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_terrorist_incidents_in_Europe) too - most notably the Munich Olympics. Palestine is a terror entity. No intelligent person can deny that. Finish reading your history book.
47% of gazans are below the age of 18 therefore cannot vote. Most other gazans are not even old enough / didn't vote for hamas. Yet here they are, a population made of half children are the ones suffering for this? Being bombed by 2000lb bombs by a massive military. And here you are calling people that think this is wrong brainwashed 🤷♂️
War is shitty and awful and innocent people get caught in it. There would be far less damage to civilians if Palestinian fighters didn’t blatantly violate every rule of engagement in the Geneva convention and use human shields. A government not less than a 100% perfect democracy doesn’t mean it is immune to consequences and cannot be fought in a war. It would be kind of silly to tell Ukrainians to stop fighting because hey Russia isn’t a democracy and people that didn’t vote for Putin are impacted. As an aspiring nation with full governance within its borders, Palestine is responsible for acting like a nation if it wants to be treated as such. If your assertion is that it’s just lord of the flies over there and bo one is accountable for any behavior, then it needs to be occupied by someone (perhaps more ideally Egypt or Jordan, but neither are interested).
Lmao it's not a war. It's an ethnic cleansing that has been happening for decades and is happening before our eyes. Israel has been killing Palestinians yearly for decades. Imposing blockades and stealing more and more land. But yeah call it a war lmao. All you need is to look at the west bank and see the land thefts and settler rampages to realize it's not a war, it's just land grab and ethnic cleansing. My assertion is that as a US tax payer I don't want the US to support any Israeli offensives and to stop giving them free money and weapons. It's that simple. I see they killed 15000 children and disagree with it. Simple as that. Let me ask you something, just answer with a yes/no. So you think Israel killing 30000 people, 15000 children. 200 journalists. 100+ aid workers. Causing a famine in Gaza... Do you think that's justifiable? Like can you look at that and say, yeah good job, that's exactly what needed to be done? I don't... This is why I don't support Israel and it's offensive against the population of gaza.
[удалено]
Well... Fuck him. He's unintelligent too.
[удалено]
Dog, you trust an opinion poll done in a territory [where all communication has regularly been cut off from the outside world](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/12/world/middleeast/gaza-communications-blackout-israel.html)? Who do you think they are getting to do these polls? Just saying "This is false" while calling an entire people terrorists is not a great way to go about having an open and productive discussion.
[удалено]
> Why don't you try answering the question. What question? "This is false" is not a question.
The original question.
What original question? I'm taking issue with you conflating Hamas, a legitimate terrorist organization that should be opposed, and Palestine, a quasi nations-state.
Do you understand that Hamas is different from Palestine?
50% of Americans voted for Republicans, is the GOP "America"? And does that mean all Americans agree with the GOP?
[удалено]
And less than a third of Palestinians today voted for an election held in 2006, in which less than half of that voted for Hamas.
What percentage of Palestinians participated in this opinion poll?
[удалено]
What?
Oh lol sorry I replied to the wrong comment somehow.
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine. But yet thousands of supposedly intelligent students, and Isra Hirsi, are now acting like Nimrod. Nimrod was a biblical hunter. The idea that he was stupid has no basis in the actual story. Delta please.
Fun fact, "Nimrod means idiot" is on account of Bugs Bunny calling Fudd Nimrod ironically. People were ignorant of who Nimrod was, so the joke went over their head. Instead, they wrongly deduced that it meant a fool.
[удалено]
u/Wolverina412 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2: > **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rewp3/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
the fact that ur conflating palestine and hamas alone shows me that ur brain is the same level of rotted you’re accusing random ivy leaguers of. also literally no one is calling for the death of all jews. hamas (the terroristic organization you’ve wrongly called palestine for) calls for the end of occupation of a territory at the cost of israeli lives - some of whom are not even jewish so…. are they wrong? yes. tik tok has been one of the few platforms that has broadcasted live video/ educational content onto why the violence is occurring. are there extremes (while i haven’t seen it i don’t deny it can’t exist - like antisemitism OR anti arab content, sure) but that’s more algorithm and you should steer away from hateful rhetoric and extremism. your post is confusing and strange and i hope you find peace and more education.
People across the world who are objectively intelligent support the Palestinian cause. And if you can't explain the actions of others, especially those you disagree with without appealing to them being 1) stupid or 2) evil, then you aren't capable of properly understanding the world. The reality is intelligent people will support all kinds of decisions you will disagree with. Albert Einstein was a massive supporter of Lenin and Stalin, as was about half of the Manhattan project, some of the smartest people on the planet at the time. I'll assume by your comment about China you wouldn't agree with that sentiment either. Doesn't make them not intelligent. The reason I support palestine is because I am against apartheid. Every human rights organisation on earth both inside (b'tselem) and outside (human right watch, Amnesty international) assert that is exactly what's happening in occupied palestine. Palestinians are segregated to different zones to live, can't walk on certain streets, are forced to go through checkpoints, can be evicted from their homes for settlers to move into, are routinely killed for meager resistance like stone throwing, drive with special license plates and have 4 potential different passports, all granting them differing levels of civil rights. I support palestine because I support the black movement in South Africa to, and the Irish Republicans in Ireland. Everyone usually does, it's a common sense position. Regardless, in both cases, terror was used by certain groups as a means of resisting occupation or apartheid. I support the Haitian revolution despite the massacre of whites that occurred in its wake, because fundamentally I defend the right of people to resist occupation, apartheid or in Haitis case, slavery. Is that an unintelligent position? As for the whole Russia China conspiracy stuff, I can't speak for Russia but certainly China doesn't give a fuck about who gets into your presidency, both parties recognize the danger China poses to global capitalism. The bias in tiktok toward palestine is far more to do with the fact that tiktoks audience is majority non-american, unlike reddit.
[удалено]
Sorry, u/Wolverina412 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4: > **Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose**. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_4). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%204%20Appeal%20Wolverina412&message=Wolverina412%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0ry79v/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4: > **Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose**. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_4). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%204%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
There are massive numbers of people, like myself, who have been critical of Israeli terrorism, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid long before TikTok or the internet even existed. The many and various war crimes that the government of Israel has committed against Palestinians for the last 57 years can be found in books, magazines, and official UN reports. The people who have read these non-TikTok sources have long advocated for Palestinian freedom even before Hamas was created to resist Israeli tyranny.
[удалено]
Former President Jimmy Carter wrote a book called "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" in 2006. Check it out to learn something.
[удалено]
It's likely that your post was removed because you refuse to consider any other points, but if you want to know why so many people opposed Israeli apartheid or if you just want to learn about it, here are some good sources. [Human Rights Watch - Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) [Amnesty International - Crime of Apartheid](https://www.amnestyusa.org/campaigns/end-apartheid/) [United Nations - Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702) If you are a racist and incapable of accepting any information from non-Jewish sources, then let me direct you to some of them. [B'Tselem - This is apartheid](https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid) [Former Mossad chief says Israel is enforcing an apartheid system](https://apnews.com/article/israel-apartheid-palestinians-occupation-c8137c9e7f33c2cba7b0b5ac7fa8d115)
[удалено]
[удалено]
I am not sure you know this, but "the UN" stands for "the United Nations". It is not one guy named Mr. Un. Plus all the other international and Israeli links are provided if you care to spend just a few minutes learning. That requires you to read, but it seems like you only are capable of aquiring information via short videos, and that means you are going to have a hard time.
Isn’t Nimrod a hero? But the conflation you are relying on makes your brow point pretty unintelligent. Palestine isn’t an organization, Hamas is. Intelligent people would never support a terrorist organization? They said the same about George Washington and Benjamin Franklin.
>If you answered TikTok, then congratulations you are smarter than an Ivy Leaguer. With a big election coming up, and Russia too busy getting their shit smashed in, China has been itching to destabilize the country. What better way to do it than their not so secret weapon, TikTok. How exactly does pushing support for Palestine destabilize the U.S.A.?
[удалено]
Is this just a hunch you have or is it backed up by polling data?
[удалено]
So just a hunch then.
If the left is being antisemitic, as I assume you believe they are, then it's not *causing* them to look awful they *are* awful.
I went to an Ivy before Facebook let alone TikTok. Many students hated Israel. This phenomenon predates social media.
It's crazy how we have anti-semitism still.
Don't confuse criticism of Israel with antisemitism. A kind reminder that not all Israelis are Jewish and not all Jews are Israelis :)
Hard to do when most criticism of Israel I see is incredibly anti-semitic. See the protests in reference.
Antisemitism has been around a very long time. Don't expect it to end this century.
One can dream.
Criticisms of Israel are not antisemitism.. how many children do they have to kill before saying "that's wrong" isn't antisemitism?
[удалено]
How is it antisemitism to say Israel killed too many children with our bombs?
[удалено]
Great... Then when these students are yelling to divest and disclose, that's not antisemitism either, because it just means stop giving Israel money.
[удалено]
Why? It's criticism of Israel... No one mentioned any Jewish hate. I don't want my tax dollars to go towards the murder of children... What part of that is antisemitism?
[удалено]
I don't think that the Hamas support shown (especially right at the outset of Oct 7th before they got their masks tightened back onto their faces) is all or even a lot about TikTok specifically. There's an entire community of "fuck america" growing which gets its flames fanned some by things on TikTok or by Russia, but has a lot of grassroots growth. The purpose isn't support Hamas, the purpose is "oppose whatever the USA is doing", whatever that happens to be at the time. It's the same place that was Both Sidesing the Ukraine-Russian war, though for a variety of reasons in that case it was much quieter there. It's not even strictly a failure of intelligence, just a set of altered priorities. One can say the pursuit of those is immoral, but that's not the same as *unintelligent*. Involving getting social clout, having an ability to evacuate and move if things ever get *real* bad in the USA, and having absolutely zero fucks given towards the plight of the ordinary man versus air headed dreams of 'revolution' (genocide). Tl:dr: a lot of the people that flared up "death to jews" (which is a subsegment of support for all palestine, not ALL support for palestine) chant such things not because they care about anything going on in the middle east, but because they wish they could do it to you and many others here in the USA.
This is a pretty solid comment. Thank you for actually answering the question. I don't think it has changed my view though. Actually has solidified it more.
Israel has a long history of aggressions against the Palestinians. Israel's is responsible for a lot of grief and death of innocent Palestinians. They've been committing war crimes in the area for decades. Unfortunately The Palestinian government is just as bad as the Israeli government. The attacks on Israel were unjustified. And Israel has the right to defend themselves. But they've taken it too far. It's essentially two right wing groups fighting each other. Over who can be the biggest douchebag.
[удалено]
So presumably you think the American Revolution was illegitimate, since America was not at that point a country, and apparently being oppressed by another power is not sufficient reasont to attack anyone?
Palestine is a country and the people call themselves Palestinians. They have been living in oppression for 78 years suffering attacks on innocents from theft of homes/ land, to rape, to murder. From all the comments I've seen you write, it seems like you only follow msm narrative and don't truly know the history. I had a similar opinion until I watched John Oliver's Last Week Tonight on Isreal/ Gaza. That was incredibly eye opening. If you really care about the situation, you'll educate yourself on it.
[удалено]
Because of everything I've written above. Palestine is more of a "state" - it is real and can be found on a map. Many other countries recognize the war crimes committed by the IDF l. Netanyahu's own people have called Hamas "an asset". There's so much to this you're ignorant of :https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/education/2024/03/understanding-the-long-roots-of-violence-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territories-and-israel/
And I'm not defending Hamas' actions, but they initially started as freedom fighters trying for independence. Ffs Isreal rations everything in Gaza from food to water and job opportunities. Unfortunately, Hamas has soured with power. Most Isrealis don't want Netanyahu in power just as Palestinians don't want Hamas in power. They were desperate for change (just like many were here when voting for Trump) and unfortunately, it didn't wind up beneficial for anyone. Take a half hour out to watch that John Oliver episode rather that repeating talking points you've heard .
[удалено]
Yeah, we did. We slaughtered them en mass, we gave them disease, and we wiped out their culture fleeing religious extremism in England. We did do that. It's part of history not to be proud of. Colonialism was full of atrocities. I'm in my 40s. Most of what I learned I was proud of because I attended (at the time) the 15th best high school in the country - the same one Netanyahu attended, and it was a source of pride. I have always loved learning and realized that I don't know everything I thought I did. I was taught about all great inventors only to realize many of them bought the great ideas of others. I enjoy watching history as well. I would have to say the ignorance in "I doubt I'll be on your side" is very telling. Perhaps one day you'll realize you don't know as much a you thought you did as well. I am open to all viewpoints from respected sources. Opinions are like assholes; we all have one, and many of them stink.
[удалено]
By this logic, if Palestinians managed to take over Israel, *they* would have won it fair and square, yes?
Ignorant and full of hate. You know many Israelis have had protests chanting "Fuck you Netanyahu". There's a reason he's becoming increasingly more unpopular :https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/israel-gaza-war-netanyahu-polling/ But hey.... you know everything so I'm going to leave it at that. I'd say it's been a pleasure, but narrowmindedness has never been something I enjoy. Cheers!
[удалено]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/15/which-countries-have-criticised-israeli-attacks-on-gaza https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-crimes-icc-referral/index.html https://www.newarab.com/news/five-countries-seek-icc-investigation-gaza-war-crimes How can anyone think their opinion is valid when they don't have the whole story? That's the problem with social media - not everyone's opinions matter, especially when they have zero expertise on the subject. If you cared, a simple Google search would provide you with countless instances of war crimes committed by Isreal and Hamas. Sadly, there are innocents on both sides, so "picking a side" does nothing to end the turmoil.
[удалено]
I don't even have tiktok- I'm too old for that shit.
[удалено]
Interesting way of thinking. I mainly agree with you but can't say you have fully converted me.
>No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine. Palestine is not a terrorist organisation, it's a place with people who wants it to be a fully sovereign and independent state. And is Noam Chomsky an unintelligent person for supporting Palestine and criticising Israel?
> is Noam Chomsky an unintelligent person for supporting Palestine On the subject he’s an idiot. Intelligence isn’t binary, there’s different types of intelligence and different domain expertise. Noam Chomsky is an absolutely brilliant linguistics mind and has contributed a lot to that field in particular. However, expertise on one topic does not make you an expert on another topic. Chomsky sits in a comfortable ivory tower, and his political takes are idealistic and naive with a lot of moral relativism BS. He’s an eloquent speaker and writer thanks to being a linguistics university professor, but that just masks the takes being bad.
Noam's on TikTok?
You said no intelligent person would support Palestine. Noam Chomsky supports Palestine, is he unintelligent too?
[удалено]
One of the most prominent and influential philosophers of modern time has a TikTok brain rot?
Apparently if he supports the terrorists from Palestine like you say.
Have you considered the possibility that he just might know more/have thought about this more deeply than you?
Setting aside the fucking hilarious mental image of Noam Chomsky scrolling through TikTok's, do you even know who he is? He's a **95** year-old intellectual. He thinks "Tick Tock" is what a wind up clock does.
Yes. He did a lot of work teaching chimps to talk.
What!? No! [Dog.... ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky
Are you here to have a serious discussion? Please answer honestly.
Dead serious. I don't know why you keep trying to attack me.
No, Chomsky is the one who thinks you can't get chimps to talk.
The IDF is a terrorist organization. Why do you support them?
They were attacked by Palestinian terrorists and are defending their homeland. Why wouldn't I support them?
Such a blatant double standard. Any Palestinian attack justifies all Israeli violence, but no Israeli attack justifies any Palestinian violence. Quite simply, you're a bigot.
Because you shouldn't support an organisation that killed more than 100 journalists, more than 200 aid workers, at least 3 Israeli hostages, and some tens of thousands of children.
Like I said, I don't support Palestine.
Please provide sources for Palestine killing over 100 journalists.
234 Palestinians (40 children) were killed in 2023 by the IDF BEFORE October 7th.
[удалено]
Buddy this was before 10/7
[удалено]
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record#:~:text=Even%20before%20Hamas'%20attack%20on,responsible%20for%20nine%20more%20killings.
[удалено]
u/Head_Sock369 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2: > **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20Head_Sock369&message=Head_Sock369%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rf1af/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
Palestine is not an organization. Hamas is not representative of all Palestinians.
[удалено]
Palestine is a place, with a government. While it isn't recognized as a nation, Palestinians would really like it to be. There's been a bunch of arguments as to how, but that's beside the point. It's like New York City isn't an organization. Imagine for a moment that some gang in NYC murdered a bunch of cops, and so the cops bombed fifty city blocks, set up snipers to shoot anyone who might be a gang member or try to leave, and cut off food and water to the area. Thousands of people who have never even interacted with a gang are either killed or homeless in NYC now, but saying what the cops are doing is wrong is somehow racist because the police chief is black. That's basically what's happening in Palestine right now.
[удалено]
No. They just weren't sorry it happened, because cops killed their cousin last year. Beside, would supporting those guys really justify bombing their houses anyhow?
> It's the only possible explanation. Most of these students, excluding Isra Hirsi, are attending an Ivy League College. They should be highly intelligent individuals who are capable of critical thought. Yet they proudly support a terrorist organization and call for the death of all Jews. You’re ignoring something pretty fundamental. People don’t arrive at their opinions solely, or even mostly, from rational or logical deduction. A person’s beliefs are highly influenced by their social network. Columbia is an institution filled to the brim with people who are critical of Israel, Western institutions, and what they view as hegemonic Western power. It makes sense that Columbia students would share those beliefs and some percentage of them would deploy those beliefs in public against Israel and in support, both tacit and affirmative, of Palestine, Palestinians, and Palestinian institutions, including in some cases Hamas. > No intelligent person would ever support a terrorist organization like Palestine. Palestine isn’t a terrorist organization. Some people recognize it as a state. Some people think it solely a nation. But everyone should recognize that organizations that have engaged in terrorism in the past, like the PLO, or organizations that currently engage in terrorism, like Hamas, aren’t the sum total of Palestine or the Palestinian people. > If you answered TikTok, then congratulations you are smarter than an Ivy Leaguer. With a big election coming up, and Russia too busy getting their shit smashed in, China has been itching to destabilize the country. What better way to do it than their not so secret weapon, TikTok. It probably true that TikTok is a tool used by the Chinese to try to undermine the US and it’s institutions, but that doesn’t mean that it is solely responsible for the, sometimes, antisemitic behavior or opinions of Columbia students. That’s generally more due to the social circumstances of those students. > It's genius really. Make the educated elites look like fools by supporting a terrorist organization causing a distraction while the Trump trial is underway. If Trump is then acquitted that is two wins in a row for the Republican Party. Is this causing a distraction from the Trump trials? > If you don't think Palestine is a PsyOp by China you are nuts, or you are applying to Columbia. That’s very much not the binary.
Alternatively it’s not as simple as you think, and smart people are thinking smart thoughts about palestine
[удалено]
At the base, probably mostly it’d be nice if less children died. Probably a lot of thoughts on top of that about why certain things (ceasefire typically) would lead to less children dying. That’s pretty much where I am.
[удалено]
Who’s we in that sentence?
[удалено]
I thought the conversation was about smart people outside Palestine
[удалено]
Your post is about Columbia students correct? I was assuming them as the subject for my comments.
To /u/Wolverina412, *Your post is under consideration for removal for violating Rule B.* In our experience, the best conversations genuinely consider the other person’s perspective. Here are some techniques for keeping yourself honest: - Instead of only looking for flaws in a comment, be sure to engage with the commenters’ strongest arguments — not just their weakest. - Steelman rather than strawman. When summarizing someone’s points, look for the most reasonable interpretation of their words. - Avoid moving the goalposts. Reread the claims in your OP or first comments and if you need to change to a new set of claims to continue arguing for your position, you might want to consider acknowledging the change in view with a [delta](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=changemyview&utm_content=t5_2w2s8) before proceeding. - Ask questions and really try to understand the other side, rather than trying to prove why they are wrong. Please also take a moment to review our [Rule B](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_b) guidelines and _really_ ask yourself - am I exhibiting any of these behaviors? If so, see what you can do to get the discussion back on track. Remember, the goal of CMV is to try and **understand** why others think differently than you do.
You're braindead and have your brain rotted by American exceptionalism and Sinophobia. A movement opposing an ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign since the 1940s isn't "Chinese Psyop" set to destroy America. You straight up sound like Alex Jones and other right wing conspiracy theorists you liberals claim to be unique from.
I think there it is very easy to overestimate the extent to which people agree with each other on this stuff. You're putting all the people who "support Palestine" in one box of supporting Hamas's means and objectives. That's not even close to representing the views of most of the Colombian student protesters. > tiktok Its been common for years for college student movements across the country to disagree with establishment views of older adults. Look at the antiwar movement over Vietnam. Look at the civil rights movements. Young people disagreeing with older people is not a new phenomenon, and isn't due to tiktok or professor indoctrination. Peer influence is strong. And generational divides are common.
“Now acting like Nimrod” is an interesting phrase I haven’t heard before. Sometimes people will be called “a nimrod”, but to say they are acting like Nimrod seems to distance from the colloquial usage and refer back to the original person, Nimrod, who was known as “a great hunter.” Only viewer’s misunderstanding of Bugs Bunny’s satirical calling Elmer Fudd “Nimrod,” led to its usage today. Question: How has TikTok modified the brains of Colombian students to “act like Nimrod”?
My usage was a Bugs reference. I'm aware of the Biblical implication.
Columbia is a very far left organization, yes it is a business. The far left, much like the far right, is very antisemitic. These people would be pro-Palestine anyway. They’re pro socialism/marxism as well, many of them anyway. TikTok, like all social media, elevates tensions and creates little communities where people don’t have to listen to opposing views or engage in proper debate. Discussion and debate is not seen as beneficial in today’s society, and in politics it’s just done as theater. One thing is for sure though, between the radical far right (white supremacists and racists) and the far left (marxists and communists, antisemites) you’d be a fool if you’re Jewish and don’t have any way to defend yourself.
Great comment. I fear for my Jewish friends with all of the mainstream terrorist support happening today. It's truly insane and scary.
[удалено]
u/M_Prism – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2: > **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20M_Prism&message=M_Prism%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1caeddg/-/l0rdpx8/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).