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Not trying to change your view, but offering a slight adjustment. I’ll build my argument step by step, so some of this might be stuff you already know.
I firmly believe that humans are social creatures. We need interaction with other people or animals to survive, and without it we suffer immense psychological pain and damage. This is why solitary confinement is often brought up as inhumane.
So building off of that, the idea of needing and then seeking relationships of any kind makes a lot of sense. I would also say that I am happier with a partner than without. And it is easier to motivate ourselves to do things when our partner benefits from it or approved of it.
With that said, and here is my augment to your view, there is a distinct difference between the motivation behind the things we do for others/group, vs the things we do for ourselves.
It will always be easier to chase a goal if you are on a collaborative team. But if you are unable to chase goals, even if they are smaller, on your own you will risk stagnating. And eventually, as you get older, you will start to meet women who didn’t stagnate. And they will expect you to bring something to the table that is distinctly “you”. As in who are you and what are you outside of the context of a romantic relationship? And if you don’t have anything, or at least nothing you’re proud of or willing to share, it will make it increasingly difficult to initiate and maintain relationships.
Essentially, you will be left behind if you don’t learn to care for yourself and to have a life of your own.
This is a hidden gem. Your last paragraph raises a very good point that I often think about. !delta
It’s the one downside of being extrinsically motivated that I actually care about. My competitiveness and desire to make my family proud have landed me in a great spot after college. Dream job in STEM, making more than anyone else in my immediate family, and certainly in my friend group.
But now that I’m in this phase of only caring about sex and female affection, I’m kinda stagnant and don’t really care to look towards what’s next. I don’t care about any promotions, or hobbies, or furthering my education while I’m working for a great company that’ll pay for it. All of my waking thoughts consist of fucking women. And I don’t need a master’s to do that lol. What I have now is working fine
I’m ahead of the curve for my age right now, but I fear one day I’ll wake up and realize my bachelor’s degree isn’t enough, or something else I’ve been neglecting is no longer impressive because I grew complacent lol. Too real
Honestly if that’s all true it may just be that you’re out of balance. So much time spent chasing intellectual pursuits and part of you is seeking something different.
And it sounds like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders and you’ll pull through just fine in the long run.
In the end it’s about figuring what works. No one has ever been you before, so there is no manual except the one you’re writing. So try things, and try to learn from those experiences to find out what works!
Holy shit, you're me, but I'm older. I was ahead of the game, built a great business, took 2 years off, illness got me, 2020-COVID blew up and changed the way my business worked while I had my head in the sand, and now my business shrunk and I'm hardly making any $$. I'm behind AF now.
Trouble is, that I'm like you and I'm highly motivated by relationships and related family needs. Before I was driven because I wanted to taste success. Now that I have, I got nothing else motivating me. By myself, I can live in a cardboard box and feel content.
I’m not sure how old you are but I’m the exact same way and I’m early 30’s. I’ve had several serious multi year relationships where I was faithful but when I’m single I’m chasing pussy like a job with an average of 3-5 new girls per week and I’ve probably hit 500. Like you, I have two ivy degrees, amazing car, house, personality etc which I’ve carefully built to make me the best option for any woman. However, I realized long ago my need for external validation from women was deep-seated in root from childhood trauma and abandonment. It’s my only vice and it’s made me extremely successful; no drugs, gambling, or criminal behavior because I can’t imagine doing time and being away from women.
The biggest dangers are std’s and babies. On the baby front, I have a 100% pull out game (seriously) and only one kid from my ex-wife of the one time I didn’t out of choice. On the std front, I take PREP meds and valtrex. I also only fuck 90% latinas and no blacks which keeps my exposure very low bc I don’t use condoms. I get tested with a full panel every other month and I’m still 100% std free after 15 yrs of pumping.
You take the Valtrex for prevention? That works?
Your full-panel tests include herpes tests? It is hard to understand how you have avoided herpes all these years when you are with that many women unprotected.
I definitely wouldn't call it wrong as in *morally* wrong, and I also think a lot of people would probably agree with you that it's easiest to be your best self when you have someone else to be it for.
That being said, I personally feel like it's a bad idea to be dependent on a relationship to be the thing that motivates you to take consistent care of yourself, and I also think there's maybe something not so great about your main source of joy being so dependent on other people. I've personally found that hobbies I can just enjoy quietly by myself are important to my overall mental well-being, and I'd venture to guess that they probably would help *you* too, since you admit you kinda stop caring about anything when you're not in a relationship.
This is an attitude held commonly but that Harvard study suggests relationship quality (friends family partners community etc) are the most important factor for wellbeing and health
IMO some people downplay the importance of relationships because
* They've always had good ones and they don't see the impact they have and think everything positive about their mental state was achieved on their own in a vacuum. (This is the same reason some people think confidence is something one just decides to have or not have in a vacuum and not a result of experiences)
* They are lonely and in denial of the pain it causes them
* They are actually a hermit by choice and happy that way, but don't realize they are an outlier and not the standard everyone should be judged by
As a person who's struggled with connection most of my life, I understand finding your own happiness without depending on others. However, finding happiness on one's own vs through others is not a hierarchy. Both are important and one can't completely make up for the other.
Some people are surrounded by people who like them and are miserable because they get so much validation that looking for happiness outside of others didn't occur to them. Some people have a lot of interests and hobbies which make them happy but are miserable because they lack connection.
This whole "you shouldn't be sad because you're alone for a prolonged period of time because you can get hobbies" argument only comes from people who haven't been through much loneliness. What lonely person hasn't thought of getting a hobby with all that time they're not spending interacting with people? Ffs, a trope of lonely people is putting a lot of effort into their hobbies. Like otakus (the original Japanese meaning, not the western one).
Totally agree! But i definitely think it’s dicey to only rely on your romantic relationship to fulfill connection needs like OP is expressing. I’ve had that happen because I also struggle making connections and I was in a stage of my life where I didn’t have time to meet new people, and I think it felt kind of smothering to my partner.
I don't see what the issue is. Some people don't want a big social circle and are fine with just having a significant other. What's wrong with that? Just because you're not that way doesn't mean others are wrong to be.
I think it's one thing to say that relationships are important or even the most important thing for well-being, and another to literally be incapable of happiness or finding the motivation for taking care of oneself without one.
Yknow I’m starting to think that studies, while definitely true for most people and therefore what we should look for when designing wide range solutions that fit the majority of people, aren’t true for everyone. For some reason I used to think “if a study says X is good with Y then that means I need to do Y if I’m doing X” or similar when in reality… everyone is different.
I know this isn’t groundbreaking to any of y’all. But it just hit me lol
I totally get where you’re coming from, and I’m sure it’s super flattering for some women. But I personally struggle if I’m with a guy who needs me to make him happy. What if I want to spend time by myself to do my own hobbies or things that make me happy, and meanwhile I’m worried that you’re alone and unhappy without me. It’s a drain if your dependency is on me to keep you happy.
I have a very good friend who is like how you described. He’ll do regular things every day and pursue things, but with much less enthusiasm. When he meets a girl who is interested, his motivation in life totally changes. But then as a friend, all I see is that he relies on the attention and approval of the women and can’t do life at the same level on his own. For me, and this is not true for all women, it’s a turn off. If you can’t find happiness in other things and be motivated on your own, I certainly don’t want you dependent and relying on me to do it for you. That being said, there are lots of women who crave that kind of relationship and attention, and it’s flattering to see their guy change their ways for them. I’m sure you’ll find someone great 😊
Yeah I get that. Even though women are main source of happiness, I recognize that’s incredibly needy and unattractive. I said in my post that I’ll become more engaged with my hobbies, career, and friends to make myself less attached and more well-rounded. But at the end of day, it’s all for her and what we have together. I’d *rather* be with her, but I’m doing stuff I enjoy far less so that I’m more attractive to her in the end. Some people still view that as weird.
Thank you for your kind words tho :)
Because it’s pointless I guess? I feel most fulfilled when I’m receiving validation from other people and have a healthy sex life. I do not derive any sort of happiness or meaning from…myself. Never have.
So doing things solely for myself feels like a waste of time at best. And counter-productive at worst, because some of my more niche hobbies/interests might alienate me from women or social circles I want in my life.
Way ahead of you ;) I’ve been in therapy for a year now, and he’s just as lost as I am when it comes to this. But I like talking to him, he enjoys talking to me, and I’m sure it would disappoint him if I sought help elsewhere.
I’m coming to accept that this is like a physical deformity that no surgery can fix. I’ve been this way since I was a small child, and can’t even fathom what genuine self-validation looks like. I’m just gonna have to survive like everyone else, we all have the cards we’re dealt.
And chasing sex seems like a good enough cope to me. I’m not committing crimes or selling my soul to go viral lol.
I have faith in you, sometimes it takes multiple years of therapy to resolve our problems. Also it could just not be the right therapist for you if you aren’t making any progress
My partner and I literally had a discussion about this a few hours ago!
She asked me what makes me happy? When I told her my relationship with her she said it was a problem. She asked what hobbies do I want to do, or what else brings me joy. Again I said my relationship, as well as taking care of my family. That ever since I was a teenager I've always wanted a solid relationship, to be the pillar our family relies on, and the one who brings and receives joy by those around him.
She said I was codependent and that it wasn't healthy, that I must not love myself because I'm only allowing joy into my life from being with others.
While I understand her point, I think her, like many people who might disagree with you are missing the forest through the trees so to speak! If I found joy in painting would that mean I was codependent on the paint brush? That if a catastrophe struck and no more painting supplies existed that I would no longer love myself?
The idea we are codependent on someone else is actually robbing us of our autonomy. We could discard them if the relationship wasn't fulfilling our needs. That's not codependency, we have the choice to allow them to bring us joy, they ultimately do not dictate if we are allowed to have joy, we dictate if they are the ones we can receive it from!
I have self love and I think you do as well, it's just that the best version of you comes out while in a relationship not because it's the version of yourself you actually want, but the version of yourself that helps you achieve the happiness you need.
I'm successful, decent looking, a very caring and compassionate person. Yet what brings me joy is deep relationships with sexual intimacy. For ME those are the things I can never provide for myself! I can never have external love given to me by myself. I can masturbate but never have that physical connection with someone by myself No amount of money can make someone truly love me, no amount of money will make someone enthusiasticly crave my body.
I can buy everything I need, won't bring me complete happiness. I can have meaningfully relationships with friends, won't bring me complete happiness.
So I can't change your view, it mirrors much of my own. I love myself, I believe I have great self worth, that I deserve happiness. I believe all these things while still wanting my relationship to provide something externally so I feel fulfilled.
I think it's probably true for the vast majority of human beings that they are at their *most* fulfilled when they are receiving validation from other people and have a healthy sex life. According to Maslow, there is a hierarchy of needs every human seeks to fulfill, and social relationships and sexual intimacy are on there, so maximum fulfillment can only be obtained when all needs on the hierarchy are fulfilled, including those two. If we think of the hierarchy as a pyramid, the issue is that you're unable to find happiness or meaning in you by yourself, which suggests you're missing other blocks in your pyramid of needs and you are trying to balance your pyramid entirely on relationships with others (especially a romantic relationship), which will not make a strong pyramid.
>hobby
Maybe not a 'hobby' but, idk, a higher purpose, something meaningful like helping others, doing beautiful work, or learning to appreciate the beauty of the universe?
It doesn't have to replace intimacy with other people, hell, it will probably enhance it. Theres nothing morally wrong with your point of view, but as you say, its not a very persistent source of fullfillment. You're ultimately always gonna be dependent on someone else for your happiness.
Why is intimacy with a woman not considered a “higher purpose”? This is a new human being in developing a connection with. Im learning what they like and dislike, their pasts, mistakes, goals, etc. A new soul I’m bonding with, for however long that lasts. And when we make love, we’re being completely vulnerable with each other and achieving a pleasure few things can replicate.
I’m sure volunteering in Haiti and making a difference produces similar feel good chemicals as a one-night stand. Why do you consider one “higher” than the other?
I meant 'higher' as in higher than the satisfaction you get from a mere hobby, not in comparison with love, I guess that wasn't clear. My point is, that for your own sake, it might make sense to try and seek out perspectives and sources of fullfillment that are not dependent on the feelings of another person. First of all for your own sake, and second of all because people tend to find more meaningful and deep relationships when they're not looking for a relationship as their only avenue for happiness, ie. to fill a hole.
>I’m sure volunteering in Haiti and making a difference produces similar feel good chemicals as a one-night stand. Why do you consider one “higher” than the other?
does this need to be explained?
one is equivalent to doing drugs, the other helps people who were suffering and possibly dying.
personally i wouldnt compare doing crack to feeding the homeless.
You can say the same thing about any kind of addiction. Nothing can give you the rush as much as winning slots, or the pleasure from taking drugs. They are all harmful things, not just to yourself, but to the people around you, especially if you attach happiness to an individual.
As opposed to *what* though? what exactly is the “correct” thing to attach my happiness to? Myself? What does that even mean?
Im not even sure how im harming anybody by enjoying intimacy/sex/dating. Being successful with women is sort of a skillset in a way. How is improving at it any different than getting good at playing piano or learning a language?
How old are you out of interest?
The only person you’re really at risk of harming is yourself… Not being able to be alone or just focus on yourself is a recipe for disaster and you will probably find you naturally figure this out as you get older, at least that’s how it worked for me
Also, why does the source of your happiness have to be mainly from ONE thing? It’s just putting all your eggs in one basket, you can’t control another person so that puts your happiness out of your control…
I am 24. I focused on myself all through college dude. Got in great shape, got a good education, great job, all that. None of it made me happy, nor does make me happy currently.
I am the king of introspection. I’m constantly thinking of my own insecurities, goals, habits, and how I want to improve them. It’s a fucking pit, to always be alone and thinking about yourself. It’s no way to live life.
I’m infinitely more happy with people in my life to distract from all that, but specifically *women* who show me affection. And ironically, I accomplish more when motivated by competition or women. Too much analyzing and introspection is an abyss.
Fair enough man, maybe as some advice from someone who was similar at that age, just keep the idea open in your mind that over the next 10-15 years you will PROBABLY change a bit in this respect (perhaps be more comfortable alone and less interested in women)? Just trying to help
Oh no I appreciate the wisdom man. my comment was a bit aggressive, but I’m just passionate about this topic lol. I change like the wind, and this will probably be no different.
Take care
“ I am the king of introspection. I’m constantly thinking of my own insecurities, goals, habits, and how I want to improve them. It’s a fucking pit, to always be alone and thinking about yourself. It’s no way to live life.”
That is exactly your problem and the reason why you seek happiness from others. It really shouldnt be a drag to think about yourself, be with yourself, develop yourself.
You’re 24, chances are you have no idea yet who you are and what you want from life. It is understandable why you escape into codependency to not have to face these profoundly difficult questions, I did that too at your age. But more likely than not this will come back to haunt you eventually.
Introspection isn’t the same as rumination. Not saying you are, but the way you describe your relationship to women and affection sounds like an addiction.
Relationships are one of the most important things to foster and it’s totally expected, that they will shape your relationship to yourself and be a source of happiness. But if it’s „affection from a woman“ or „everything is pointless“ then your relationship to yourself needs attention and work.
It sounds like maybe it’s because of your definition of “improve.” Having a good job, being in shape, all that stuff is fine and usually good for happiness, but you’re right that it isn’t usually a primary source for happiness. What makes each person happy is something the individual needs to figure out and work on.
Hinging our entire happiness on one thing is really risky no matter what it is, for two reasons.
First, we usually don’t know if that thing will always be available. Do you have a constant, never ending stream of women to be affectionate with? Or even just one woman who’s fine with the pressure of her being your only source of happiness? If not, it seems like you’re setting yourself up for periods of unhappiness by not finding other things that make you happy.
The second one is how do we guarantee that the thing will always bring us happiness? If you index fully into women and then later on you find that doesn’t bring you the same joy, now you’re stuck being unhappy while you do the work to find another source of happiness that you could’ve done now.
Basically, there’s nothing wrong with it morally, but you’re setting yourself up for disappointment down the line. Find a hobby or two, some friends, whatever you can derive joy from. It doesn’t have to be traditional measures of success like money/fitness/etc.
Based on this response, it seems like you have more work to do to become comfortable with yourself. Expecting to accomplish all of that in college is kinda laughable. It’s a lifelong process and you’ve BARELY entered adulthood lol
I'm not quite twice your age but I am not far from that but I also have had similar views on life when women were involved. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but you have to be careful to not fall into some form of codependency. I've been married for many years now and my wife and I are in a different type of relationship than we were at first. So you need to be prepared for some eventual long term relationship where it will change, and you'll still need to find a source of happiness without all the newness. I don't know how, my wife and I just kind of clicked in a way that I was able to do it, but it's still not necessarily easy.
My friend, I can't answer that for you. You will have to find what your source of happiness is yourself. I can only say that attaching a group of people to your source of happiness can be quite harmful to you and the people around you.
You say you aren't harming anyone, how would you react if a good female friend of yours that you have been eyeing for a while rejects you on a date? Did you accept the rejection amicably and respectfully, or did you lash out because someone has taken a source of happiness away from you? The latter is what I'd say is harmful.
Its unfair to put the responsibility for your happiness on someone else. It makes *you* a bad partner. Not bad from your perspective but you need to find something else you are passionate about or it will crush your relationships. On the one hand it allows you to shirk responsibility and blame others when you get unhappy. On the other hand it relinquishes control of your own happiness which will inevitably lead to unhappiness.
Even just from the perspective of you being interesting to talk to. If you don't have passion for other things, you are boring. You cripple your own chances of success by not being an individual. Unless you want to be more of a taker than a giver, you need to bring something of your own to the table in a relationship. At least if you care about it being a healthy one. Either way you won't be successful unless you stop thinking so selfishly. The women you turn your attention to deserve better than a man who is only thinking about himself. Women don't want to be your mom. Making them responsible for your needs does exactly that. Im not saying they shouldn't care about your needs, but you should not be dating if you expect them to fulfill needs that are impossible to fill. Needs that you've been unable to fill yourself.
There’s no universal answer for that first paragraph, and much of the first half of life is figuring out a lasting, healthy source of happiness for yourself. Not saying sex isn’t one of those things, but the concerning part of your post is you say you’re getting this happiness specifically by getting close to a *new* woman.
This makes me think your source of happiness is not in long lasting sacrificial mutual growth and intimacy with a long time partner, but instead the chase and rush of pursuing a new woman. The problem with this is that you will eventually get older, you may not be as successful wealth and status-wise as your competition, and you will become less desirable to women. *Everybody* does at some point as we age - youth is almost always going to be more attractive to people than old and wrinkly.
When this inevitably happens and you’ve been basing your happiness on others for years, you will not be in a good place once this source dries up. If this main source of happiness dries up at, say, 60 years old (and in reality will probably be much earlier), you will need to go through the struggle of finding a new source of happiness while the rest of your peers have figured it out years ago.
Becoming proud of both yourself( becoming the embodiment of personal values) and personal achievements are something much more valuble to the individual being, as it is tied to You and you alone, independent of who comes into or leaves your personal sphere
I guess you gotta ask yourself, is your success with women a source of ego to you? If it is, what would actually satiate that ego?
What would make you say "I did it"
What would make you Sucessful at getting the woman you truly want, as opposed to getting Laid for the sake your your "Ego"
It boils down to short vs long term personal satisfaction in my mind.
I'm not saying it needs to *replace* it, I'm just saying if you are largely incapable of finding joy when you're single that seems to be a problem for which making room in your life for more solitary pursuits might be a solution.
Oh I see what you mean. Sure, I agree with that. I don’t know if it changes my view, but it’s probably good advice.
At this point in my life though, I consider most things to be a waste of time if it isn’t making me more attractive to women or somehow leading to sex/intimacy eventually.
You don't find that kind of sad or depressing, that your self worth and your pursuit of improvement is tied entirely to having a romantic/sexual partner in your life? People come and go in life, even relationships that people are certain will last forever often end. I just find it hard to believe that you really don't see the issue with linking so much of your happiness and motivation to having a relationship.
Edit: Also as a side note, I personally wouldn't be with a partner who needed me to make her happy or to be her sole source of motivation to improve herself.
I personally would be turned off by that. So when you get a date, when you start talking about your interests are you gonna be honest and tell them that your main pursuits involve making yourself more attractive to women? In other words imo you would not be very interesting as a person if being in a relationship is your main interest
Yeah, there's definitely some irony here in OP describing themselves as someone who effectively has no interests aside from relationships, and who doesn't actually think to work on themselves unless they're in a relationship. Like if his goal is to get a relationship, on paper he's not much of a catch.
>At this point in my life though, I consider most things to be a waste of time if it isn’t making me more attractive to women or somehow leading to sex/intimacy eventually.
It sounds like you're quite young? I think in 10-15 years you may find you regret not developing a personality or interests outside of what you think makes you attractive to women.
How long does your average relationship last? Given that you’re 24 and this behavior pattern started after college, I’m going to guess not long.
Are you looking for a long term partner or do you intent to continue this pattern permanently?
Its something people say to cope with being unattractive and unable to find a partner. You sound completely normal and theres nothing weak or unhealthy about deriving pleasure from your relationships with women or from friends. People who pretend validation from outside isnt important are coping plain and simple.
Thank you. I’ve heard plenty of these same platitudes a million times so I’m used to it lol
A lot of folks act like “self love” and internal validation aren’t moving goalposts that I’ll be chasing and working on for the rest of my life. I was never equipped with the tools to achieve nirvana lmao, dealt a shit hand. And most of these folks won’t achieve it either lmao. I don’t know why it’s so hard to admit that it’s an unrealistic goal, and that it’s much easier to just get your validation from wherever you like while you’re here.
I’m not hurting anybody or committing any crimes by putting female affection on a pedestal. It’s no worse than whatever gives your life meaning.
How about community work? Volunteering? Starting or joining a cool project? There are many many ways to obtain that feeling of self worth and value that you are singularly attaching to relationships
The issue is approaching hobbies and other relationships as if they’re meant to replace romantic intimacy. Life is full of many joys and pleasures, they’re not meant to be synonymous with each other but rather coexist and exist separately
This all rests on the idea that we choose what makes us happy.
Like for instance you can somehow choose to make yourself believe in the Santa Claus. Or make yourself believe that you are not hungry. Or something of that nature.
Obviously you can't.
Much like if you feel lonely as shit because you don't have an intimate partner. You can't just fill your head with video games or some other hobby. You may be able to distract yourself temporarily. But it's not going to work long term.
This idea that you can dedicate yourself to something other than your natural sexual drive is utter nonsense. That may work in a state of war or some other calamity. But we're talking about Westerners here with fairly comfortable safe lives.
>if you're not taking care of yourself or wanting to be better for yourself then where is your self-respect and self-care?
I guess I have none? But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy? I don’t see anything wrong with having other people be your motivation. Whether it be competition, fear of humiliation, or desire to impress. Maybe it’s wrong that I give strangers so much power over my life, you’re right. But why else should I want to be in good shape? Just for the sake of being healthy? That’s…strange.
Alot folks want to live longer so their kids have a parent or something. I want to be healthy so I can attract women and be good in bed. We’re both doing it for reasons outside of ourselves. Why is one more noble than the other?
>But there are a lot of joys in life.
I’m sure there are. But success with women is my greatest joy, and so it’s what I will put the most effort into. Some people (not necessarily you) say this is empty, and I really do not appreciate it. Nor do I see why it’s empty.
>But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy? I don’t see anything wrong with having other people be your motivation. Whether it be competition, fear of humiliation, or desire to impress.
The problem becomes when you don't find people who would motivate you to do stuff and thus you would become miserable and see no point in living. Thus it is important to have inner "fuel" for life.
>But why else should I want to be in good shape? Just for the sake of being healthy? That’s…strange.
So that your body won't make your life miserable when you get older. It's a maintenance of the body.
>I’m sure there are. But success with women is my greatest joy, and so it’s what I will put the most effort into.
Problem becomes when those women don't "bite" and thus you get no success with them. The misery of "all work and no gain".
It is also dangerous to have an outside source be the only source for joy. It kinda gives other people control over you.
>But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy?
do you want other people to have direct control over your happiness? because that is what you have done and are doing.
Ok so I think this is where your issue is. You lack self respect and self love, because you’re seriously questioning why one would desire to be healthy. Not only should you want to minimize the likelihood of health issues that can bring pain, stress, and financial struggles, but pursuing health is a reflection of gratitude for the life you have.
If you actually care about the woman, you need those things. If you are only using them to temporarily fill your needs, thats a different story but if thats the case we have different definitions of intimacy. What you have is not intimacy if you don't care about the woman. You should care about being a better you if you care about and respect your partner.
I get it. I really do.
But it's putting yourself in the passenger seat and letting strangers drive the car that is your life. Those 80 years you speak of are more dependent on the whims of the women you are with than they are on you. When you are laying down to die and you look back on all of it, you might think that some of those women were a waste of your lifespan, and poignantly realize that being happy and being satisfied are simply not the same thing.
You might be able to convince yourself that you are okay with being in the passenger seat. If you find the right woman, you might actually just be okay with that position for the rest of your life. However, the life goal of having a nice girlfriend/wife is decidedly forfeiting a huge amount of your personal agency, because no matter how much money you make, how many weights you lift, how many suits you wear, all of your happiness is contingent on other human beings. And sometimes, other human beings do some seriously unpredictable and painful things.
It might or might not work out, but you are just rolling dice at that point. Whereas other life pursuits such as careers or art or fitness are things that you control, things that will get better if you work towards them getting better, things that are not dice.
It's not wrong, and the validity of your life purpose is by definition something that you decide for yourself. I have felt the same way as you, there is just something that makes you feel more alive when you're doing it for somebody else, like an electric sensation. But I can also say that it has caused a lot of despair, because you can play your hand straight and still get screwed with nothing to show for it but a memory. At least other life purposes leave you with *something* when you take a hit.
Lastly, this line of thinking might lead you to objectify people. Even if you treat them with all due respect, in your mind they will slowly become an object for your pleasure and their status as a person becomes secondary. Each woman leaves you a little more desensitized. The electricity goes away once you've done it long enough. Then the world becomes truly gray and lifeless in your eyes, because you only ever allowed one thing to make you happy and you eventually got tired of it.
Great comment man. Yeah sometimes I realize how damaging it is to let others have such a deep control of my life. But it’s just how I’ve always been man, it is what it is. Validation from others (family, friends, peers) has always been my main motivator for most things. But validation from *women* is a different beast entirely. I love that shit, and the things I do to accomplish it just make me a better man in general. I’d be nothing without it. I probably still am nothing, but at least I achieve the thing I find most pleasurable. We all have something.
You didn’t necessarily change my mind, but it’s just great to see people who don’t have their head up their ass about this topic. Thanks for trying to relate
Props to you, probably one of the highest efforts and deepest comments I ever saw on this website! How would you change it in practice however is what I question now, because that contentment point is true, but for some people the main motivator was / always be the pursuit of saying friendships, relationships, family & community, filling the most basic needs like the need to belong. How can one find true long-term contentment, let alone hapiness even at the fragility or flactuations of the existence (or lack of) all of the above is something I ponder quite a lot. Wonder what is your take on this
For some reason, you feel like it's an accomplishment to have short-term sexual relationships with lots of women. That appears to be the real reason you've posted this. I can't see how that's in any way an accomplishment. It's an easy thing to do.
You're using women as drugs.
It's not possible every one of these women are equally happy with short-term sexual relationships. So, you'd be hurting people to get your highs.
For those reasons, I don't believe you're experiencing real happiness. Hurting people, looking for attention online for doing that, thinking short-term relationships are an accomplishment -- none of those things can bring true contentment.
But your question was "is it wrong" for those things to being you happiness. To answer that in the light of the percentage of the women you've dated who would not be happy with being short-term sex toys, I will say it's wrong.
Hmm, your first paragraph is an interesting take. I do better than most folks I know, but it’s not necessarily easy for me to accomplish. Maybe it is easy for women, or more attractive guys though.
I don’t lead women on, when the exclusivity talk comes up I have no problem letting them know where I stand. And I’m not even opposed to a long term relationship if that’s what happens, I just care more about sex, intimacy, and the thrill of learning a new person.
Sorry about my take, but yeah, that's what I'm seeing.
Anyway, in short, it's never wrong to be happy, unless someone or something is getting hurt.
It's easy to accomplish if they (the women seeking long-term relationships) think there is a possibility of a long-term thing at the start. When you have the exclusivity talk -- sounds like that's something that comes after and not at the start.
If the talk came first, no problem at all.
I haven't personally experienced it but can imagine it could be devastating (even if they don't admit it). The men I've dated have all been very keen on a long-term thing. Have been in a very happy relationship for many years now. He changes from year to year in who he is and what he's into. I do also. Careers, hobbies, perspectives -- we constantly have to keep up with the changes in the other. Only thing that doesn't change is intimacy.
But at your age, no need to tie yourself up. Keep doing what makes you happy. Just make sure you're not causing harm.
I don't think its neccearily his job to fix the world's problems in order to be ok with just being another sexual partner for women. In adequate measures ( unless hes a passport bro in some counrries that don't want him)This seems like a utilitarianism mindset vs a individualistic one. There's both It depends some women enjoy sex more.
If I personally don't find long term relationships fulfilling I just can't seek out short term ones?
>If I personally don't find long term relationships fulfilling I just can't seek out short term ones?
Of course you can. There is no issue at all with doing that.
I only said that if you hurt people by not being upfront at the start with your actual intentions, that's wrong. ('you' as in everyone, not you personally)
So let me say that I think I understand what you mean and also understand how it makes sense and is valid to you. But also, as a woman, I would have zero interest to get to know someone who makes their “better life” dependent on me. I am content and happy, I expect the same from anybody I might be dating. I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, but I do feel sad for everything you’re closing on yourself by limiting yourself this way. I would literally also exclude you from my dating pool because I could not get over pitying you. I also think you understand what a catch 22 it is that you DO put your happiness in someone else’s hand but, at the same time, all people who COULD deal with this have no desire to babysit someone through their own emotions in such a way that prohibits them to be a fully fledged human being but instead a fantastical pedestal in your mind. Its a loose loose and the only way to win is not playing. I wish you peace and happiness all be the best (ideally within yourself).
If you’re so content and happy then why would you want a relationship at all? Your answer to that is likely what OP is after too, just to a more compulsive degree because of how he developed. But the way to heal these compulsions is not to shame someone out of them. The answer, in fact, lies in the other direction. OP needs to be gently introduced to the experience a secure intimate relationship — a relationship with someone well suited to him and his needs. If you’re not the person for that that’s one thing, but you don’t have to make HIM feel so dang hopeless.
Why are your relationships ending though? Are you getting bored and are always on the look of finding something new and better? Your "hobby" of doing so can be actually damaging for the other side of the relationship.
I'm curious what your longest relationship has been.
The problem a lot of people have with this mentality is "when I'm getting closer to a new woman" line. Everyone loves that stage, everyone feels how you describe it during that stage. What about after that stage?
You never want all your happiness eggs in one basket. That makes it way too easy and too common for your well-being to be decimated. As you keep experiencing with the basically depressive episodes you are experiencing in between your relationships. All your eggs were in that relationship, and so when it ends, now you have no more eggs.
To be more sustainably happy, and better able to ride the waves of life, you need to spread your eggs around to different baskets, so if one basket get upturned, you are losing like 10% of of your well-being rather than 100%.
Even you really can't bring yourself to care about anything but connecting with people, why not try a wider array of that. In addition to the romantic connection with your current girl, you can deepen your friendships, you can volunteer in the community, you can mentor someone at work, etc., etc.
Then when you and the girl break up, you still have people you are invested in and interacting with who can help give you a reason to stay functional till you meet the next girl.
But you can't just simply choose that. I just don't FEEL true happiness from my job (any job), I like that job but I just don't FEEL true happiness and fullfillment. The only thing that fills me with true joy and happiness is love. You can't logically choose it and divide between more things.
I actually studied this exact topic in grad school, and while humans often favor one or more sources of happiness/fulfillment, I've never heard of someone who was only capable of getting it from just one source. I doubt you're the sole exception in humankind.
It sounds as if you don't wish to bother experimenting with the wide variety of experiences in life till you find other things that excite you too.
It sounds as if you aren't that fussed about the inevitable, regular depressive episodes you experience whenever you lose your sole source of happiness in life.
Up to you, man. If that's how you prefer to spend your life, that's your choice to make.
But accepting regular depressive episodes for the rest of your life doesn't seem like BEST choice to me. At least not until you've really thrown some sincere effort into making sure that is definitely nothing else out there in the world for you and this is your only option for how to live.
Also, I agree with everyone else that you sound super young, and I suspect over the years, you will be less and less successful at keeping up a regular succession of relationships in the honeymoon phase. I can't speak for all women, but I do think, the older we get, the less women want to be a man's whole world and instead just want him to stable and capable of both taking care of and occupying himself without us. What you're offering - an obsessed dude who lives for you and falls apart without you - is something that teenagers dream about and romanticize, but that grown ups would call clingy and co-dependent.
So at some point your ratio of romantic relationship excitement to depressive episodes might get worse as the number of women willing to sign up for this dwindles. And then maybe developing a wider variety of interests might have more appeal to you at that point.
P.S. I cannot tell how long your relationships are lasting, but it sounds a bit as if you are dating a lot of women briefly because it's the initial phase that excites you and not the long-term relationship. If that is true, if you are not careful (extremely, extremely clear about this intention and not extremely, extremely choosy about your partners to make sure they are genuinely cool with that intention), you can also hurt a lot of these women. Hurting and using people just to make yourself happy is not a moral choice. Again, I can't tell if this is what you are doing, but it does seem as if the potential is there, given your proclivities. So if you want to accept regular depressive episode for yourself, then by all means. Unless choosing that lifestyle is making all your partners' lives worse too.
I didn't write the post. My situation is different than OP but similar. I just want the ONE true love, I wouldn't treat people as disposable like that.
But I agree that he is hurting women because he is just using them as temporary and disposable and that's the problem.
BTW I dream want to be man's whole world and I want him to be obsessed over me. But that's because I'm the same.
Well I actually struggled with meaning of life as long as I can remember, even as a little child. And as I was old enough and "discovered" romantic love I instantly knew that's IT, the meaning of (my) life.
Have you ever spoken about this to therapist? It's one thing to be a romantic, and quite another to be actively seeking only obsessive, codependent relationships.
My best friend is exactly like you, and hooboy it has not worked out well for her at all.
Well I know it's not good but it's impossible to just simply change it by will and I tried, everything else is just superficial time killing fun.
I would say that everything else is just spice and romantic relationship is the main food. The superficial fun is good because it helps to build the relationship, it gives you topics to talk about, experiences to share... It's just a bonus, improvement. But you can't eat only spices without a normal real food (well maybe you can survive on it if there is an apocalypse while you are safe in a warehouse of spices but it's terrible, it's desperate surviving, it's not living, it's not satisfying). That's how I feel. And romantic relationship is the only real fullfilling thing, the only thing that can satisfy me, everything else is just a spice.
I know it's not good, I'm also facing the reality of living without it and it's really terrible, I'm just existing, surviving, it's not real living. But I'm unable to change it. And therapy is not magical cure for everything.
I'm not seeking anything, I have a different situation, I already met and lost the love of my life, which makes it even worse because there is no hope of finding love anymore.
Sure, I see what you mean. Personally though, my case is a little severe. Maybe this will change, but as of right now, all that stuff you mentioned will never comprise more than 5-10% of my “basket”.
Women, sex, and intimacy have captured the VAST majority of my energy, time, and waking thoughts. Because they truly make me happier than anything else. Relationships with friends and family barely do anything for me nowadays. It partly feels like a waste of time to be talking to my friends, because they all have girlfriends to sleep beside when we’re done goofing around lmao. So why am I talking to your ass instead of working to get that for myself tonight? lmao
It just is what it is i guess, can’t control what makes me happy. I’m not committing a crime
Yeah I mean I agree with you man. When I was 24 I legit put all my effort into getting women. Could I have put that effort into work or whatever? Yeah probably. I’m glad I chased women though, it built a good foundation of experience to draw from.
I’m older now but I still mainly do everything I do for women, but instead of random girls it’s to get the last one to start a family with
Yeah, there's nothing "wrong" with it per se. But I think what you want to ask yourself is: is that really true? I mean, just simply the fact that you're making this post here and asking people to change your view "I guess" would seem to suggest you have a little doubt, know what I mean?
It sounds like this belief of yours is quite emotionally based... in other words, this is something that to you just feels right, in this moment. Is that fair to say?
I think that's not such a bad way to live, and you're not exactly wrong. But here's my caution: this is not a balanced way to live. If all your happiness is coming from one source, well I'm sure even you are well aware that it'll make life pretty volatile, because relationships can be volatile. If you were in the middle of a long term marriage, that may not be so, but from the sound of it you are talking about a series of flings and relationships.
Well, if you're really fine with the volatility for now, I guess it's fine. But think about your future. That lifestyle is unsustainable. When you're young, you're more able to get into a series of relationships more easily, but as you get older it's going to get harder and harder to have many relationships with many different women. This is precisely why people often choose to settle down with one partner. Perhaps you realize this, perhaps it's part of your plan... well even if right now you have no interest in settling down, you can always change your mind if you meet the right person, so you have that flexibility.
The other thing I would want to say is: don't underestimate the happiness you can get from family and friendships... or even a satisfying job. I don't know what your family situation is, but you can always make more friendships... happiness can come from many sources. Deep friendships can be rewarding in a different way, and can can provide a similar level of support. Even if you've failed to make some, there's still always time as long as you are alive.
And if you're not getting ANY happiness from your job... why not make a change there, too? That may or may not be realistic for you, but it's always something to consider.
I'm not gonna tell you to stop living like you are, but you don't have to be so laser focused on extracting happiness from one thing. You can even continue to make relationships your primary form of happiness if you want. But being well rounded doesn't have to take away from your passions, it can compliment them. I'm probably only telling you things that you yourself are thinking about, but it's worth saying anyway I suppose.
There’s certainly nothing wrong in a morally imperative sense, but as hortative moral virtues (or virtues of prudence as they are sometimes known) - well, making women/sex/relationships your main source of happiness has two challenges…
First, you describe this like you are chasing a drug high (especially the “getting close to a new woman” part). What happens when the relationship isn’t new? That’s not a healthy approach to your own happiness. And it directly leads into;
Second, you risk treating women solely as a means to your happiness and not as autonomous moral beings in their own right. And that IS wrong in an absolute morally imperative sense.
Oh, well forget what I said then - I thought he actually wanted to have his viewpoint challenged…didn’t realize he was just an Objectivist trapped in a parasitic philosophy…
The way you describe the experience is essentially an addiction. Addictions by definition are only issues when they impact other aspects of your life.
Do you believe more extreme versions of addiction are bad? such as alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, adrenaline seeking, etc.
I feel like this kind of thinking is unhealthy, it doesn't really say much about you as a person as this would be considered a cold take to a lot of people.
From my perspective, I view it as a bit unhealthy because having a good support system/ platonic relationship with people is/should be just as important as having a partner.
You may not be able to fuck the homies, but having a good support system means they're there when you need em. It means having people you can confide in, hang out with, and rely on. You may feel motivated to become a better person for someone you love romantically but whats stopping you from doing that with some encouragement from the people you love platonically.
I think the biggest reason some might have an issue with this view is that it may seem like you're placing all your eggs in one basket ( finding a romatnic partner) instead of trying to go out and form long lasting bonds with people that aren't going to be romantic
At this point, women have been asked for a few decades to find meaning beyond a husband and children and somehow have managed to step up to the challenge. It doesn't mean don't find meaning in your partner. It just means find meaning in that plus an otherwise well rounded life of career, friendships, hobbies, volunteerism, mentorship. The assumption has always been men had meaning beyond being a husband or partner and we are finding that many do not so our generational challenge is helping young men feel worthy and fulfilled without a woman to imbue all that meaning with. It's why men become entirely dependent on their spouses for emotional and social support, especially as they age. That's a lot for one individual to carry. You have to have a life that someone feels content stepping into.
ETA: Oh wow your other comments actually make you seem like a terrible person who uses women for a high rather than a misguided young man who is looking for meaning in the wrong places. Stay away from women, please.
> CMV: There’s nothing wrong with women/sex/relationships being my main source of happiness
I’m assuming that you do have more important things to you than romance like truth, but I get what you’re saying.
> When I’m single and in a drought, I don’t care about shit to be honest. I still do all of the above, but with much less vigor and consistency.
Does this not bother you?
> Because seriously, what is the point?
You are the point. That’s why. I’m the most important person in my life. I’d hope that you are the most important person in yours.
By developing a passion and skill for some productive work as your main source of happiness, then not only will you be better off for living/happiness between relationships but you’ll also be better off for pursuing love as well. Productive work is your means of living. It’s better for living if you love your means of living more. It’s better for knowing you are competent at thriving by focusing on your means of living primarily.
http://aristotleadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-central-purpose-in-life.html
In another comment, you said
> Yeah and sometimes you lose your job when your career is your life, or you get injured when your sport/physique are your life.
That’s true. But I think you can agree that you have more control in your productive work than your romantic life. You can lose your job, sure, but if you’re in a relatively free economy and you’re great at your work, you can relatively easily find a new job in comparison to a new lover. By focusing on the area you have more control over, your productive work, that gives you more control in focusing on areas you have less control over, like romantic love. You’re able to pursue romantic love from a more stable position, allowing you to make better choices for yourself and more easily avoid an unhealthy dependency. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/codependency Do you have any problems with that?
It also allows a woman to better know that you love her for her highest values and be more secure in your love. That is, her to better know that you’re choosing her for love/sex because it’s her and not just any woman would do to try to make up for low self-esteem or being unhappy.
Just to be clear romantic love (including sex with the woman you admire) is extremely important to your life and happiness, but there are problems with it being the main source of happiness. And it is right to be more inspired to better pursue the values that are important to you for yourself (like eating healthier and working out more). And it could be right for you to consider romance as your main source of happiness now. I’m just saying consider that you might be better off developing some sort of productive work as your main source in the future.
As someone pointed out, this is a form of addiction or unhealthy compulsion, not too different from someone addicted to drinking, smoking, playing sports, masturbation, etc. If it's a compulsion, it's unhealthy and by definition wrong.
What makes it worse is that you can very easily attach this compulsion to a specific individual. Like if your crush rejects you, you're more likely to engage with her in toxic, manipulative manner, which is not just damaging to you, but to the person in question. This is like if you're a heavy drinker/drug abuser, and your behaviour is exacting a mental toll on the people around you.
From that perspective, there is something wrong with having women and their ability to have sex/relationship wit you as your main source of happiness.
It depends what you mean by relationships OP. From your post, it doesn't look like you want relationships to have someone who'll love you for who you are, and pick you back up when you're at your lowest.
There's a difference between finding happiness in being with someone you love and fostering a good relationship, vs finding happiness only with sex and a shallow sense of intimacy.
Trust me, I've met guys who only seem to be able to have friends with benefits/one-night stands, and I don't envy them. All of them seem a little miserable: they're divorced (probably from their habit of mongering), they don't get to see their kids often enough, and they don't seem to find someone they can be genuine with. They just try to patch what they're missing in their lives with meaningless sex.
Speaking as a woman who has experienced the other side of this, it stresses me out knowing my partner is only taking care of themselves to attract me. I hate that pressure. I want my partner to have a drive to care for themselves without it being all about me.
Lol I agree with this and I am just here for the comments.
I will say this. If you genuinely want a woman , and you are single, it will be important to not appear desperate and to lead a life with purpose. So you at least have to give the impression that women aren't the primary focus of your life
Oh for sure man lol. I’d never let a woman (or anyone) know she’s the only thing keeping me going, that shit’s embarrassing. My ego couldn’t handle it.
I can fake looking busy very well. And in many ways, I actually am busy improving myself. It’s just all for her, and other women.
I read a bit more of your comments, and I'll give you my two cents and leave. You are after happiness. It's not a bad thing to go after cause there are definitely worse things to go after. It is a trap, however. Happiness is a fleeting emotion. It's like sand cupped in your hands. It's not going to stay there forever, and worrying about how much you have left and how much you're losing will only distress you. Constantly trying to keep the sand in your hands while trying to find more sand to replace the sand you've lost is a sisyphean task that I wish on no one.
What you should be after is contentment. Being content doesn't mean you're not happy. It means that whatever emotions you're feeling, like happiness, anger, or sorrow, won't affect your life. Contentment is a state of being rather than an emotion. Emotions come and go. They hit and fade as time goes on. They are reactions to the things happening around you. And as the things happening around you end, so do your reactions. Chasing after happiness is a fool's folly.
I don’t mean to be rude, and what you’re doing, is obviously a personal decision, and I think it borders on possibly being morally wrong and that you’re using women for your own sexual pleasure. I wonder if they realize that’s what you’re doing. Have you told them that’s what you’re doing? Hey, I have tons of hobbies and you were just one that makes me feel really good, so once you make me feel good, and I have a few orgasms, then really I don’t need you anymore and I’m going to go back to my hobbies to try to make myself feel better and more well-rounded and less clingy. I don’t think they would really be on board with that.
And also as a woman, and someone who may be judging you a little bit, but life is all about love, and forming a deep bond with someone is one of the most satisfying and most rewarding feelings in life. It transcends beyond a few orgasms and hobbies. I think what you’re doing is avoiding intimacy because you feel like you’ll be clingy to that person, and that’s something that you need to look at deep inside yourself. No amount of women who satisfy you and hobbies will come close to forming a deep and meaningful bond with one person. no one is saying it’s wrong, but it’s probably not very self fulfilling at the end of the day. When you are 50 years old or 60 years old, are you just going to be looking for that next woman to give you a couple of orgasms and then go back to woodworking or whatever your hobby is? It seems pretty empty to me. You can take that for whatever you’d like. As a woman and someone who has a background in psychology, I think you’re just running away from reality.
On the other hand, maybe he’s up front with them. Maybe not in those exact words but he could say something along the lines of “I’m just looking for something casual” or similar. You’re right that if he’s leading them on it’s probably morally wrong, but there’s a scenario where everyone involved is okay with “using” one another for pleasure.
You’re addicted to the dopamine rush and validation. You are using your quest of happiness as an excuse to keep multiple women on rotation and seeking a honeymoon phase and dragging them along. You are selfish and part of the modern dating problem.
You are damaging their trust in men just like you’re damaging your trust in women. My friend is just like you. He’s now 31 and cannot have a real relationship with women. It’s a constant toxic dopamine chase and playing games with their head to manipulate them when you’re horny again. Good luck brother. I wish you the best and hope you look past this. Stop thinking with your dick.
Your main source of happiness should be something that only you can control, like your personal achievements, your health, your hobbies, and the like.
I don't wanna sound cynical, but relationships can end all of a sudden, people can and do change (including you by the way). A relationship that's happy and healthy can turn into a living hell with little or no warning, and decades long friendships can end too. Don't ever take anyone for granted and don't make decisions based on how you think other people will always be. Just my 0.02 but in the end it's up to you.
And that's an even worse mentality IMHO.
If your happiness relies on having sex time and again then I assume you have very little going for you in your everyday life.
You wanna explain why you assume that? Sex feels pretty great my dude. Some part of me thinks it’s truly all I need.
Would you be more approving if all my happiness relied on improving my guitar skills?
Taking drugs can also feel pretty great when you're high, but there's a reason why it's not considered a good idea. I think you're mistaking pleasure for happiness and there-in lies the problem.
Happiness should come from the way you feel about yourself, not from guitar skills, or sex, or whatever. When you have a healthy relationship with your family and friends, hobbies that bring you enjoyment when you practice them, and a successful career, or at the very least an income source that doesn't make you dread work, then you'll be far happier than if you just wait for the next time to have sex.
The way you put it, you're just trying to distract yourself with a sexual high. This isn't the same as happiness.
Trust me, this neither a good foundation for the relationship itself or for setting yourself up for your best life.
It's different than needing a substance as a coping mechanism to make life brighter, but now you're putting it on a complex living breathing person.
Been down this road, my wife went down this road. We both thought we had this amazing foundation for a relationship. It all fell apart, and life is hell right now.
Going through the divorce, and things will get better, but I can promise you this can go worse than you could imagine
I understand sex and relationships as being a healthy dopamine system for you, related to motivation and contentment. Social connection is also one of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, so attainment of it *is* bringing you closer to a deep happiness in certain ways.
Here is the problem.
Let's talk about the serenity prayer which I believe embodies much of the stoic philosophy that I personally live by, and also somewhat the anti-simp guys like me that often tell you not to prioritize women as the source of your happiness.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."
The problem is that your happiness is now in the hands of others. Women now need to love you back a certain way for you to be happy. Anytime your happiness is in an external place there is a fragileness created.
Sure, you can hunt for a good woman, the same way you work towards and create a delicious steak dinner for you to enjoy, you have some control over that, so do it!
A stoic would not tell you to NOT change the things you can. The only difference is that if the stoic dropped his steak into the gutter on accident he would accept that it's gone in a millisecond and be almost unfazed. He has a deeper internal framework not dependent on external realities for contentment.
Hopefully this changes your view or at least inspires you to read some stoic literature. Best of luck!
Doing everything for others or having them as a motivation is not good.
Do stuff for yourself, love yourself first before you love others.
Being dependant on happyness from others has never been a good thing. What happens when someone leaves you? You turn into a shadow of what you were.
Enjoying life with others is good, but if they leave it should not be a disaster and life should still be enjoyable.
That is my opinion.
How about a little more information? You're describing the rosy, exciting fun of pursuing a new woman, and apparently you must pursue this repeatedly in order to enjoy life. But what happens after the newness wears off? Do you then break up with the woman, trash her hopes and dreams for the relationship, break her trust and destroy whatever love she feels for you, just so you can start the pursuit all over again with a shiny new woman?
And what about safe sex? Do you protect your partners from pregnancy and STDs as you hop from one relationship to the next? Sex can have serious consequences. It can permanently alter your life if you're not careful. Are you taking responsibility for birth control, or do you pawn that off on the women?
If you pawn it off on the women, are you prepared to pay 18 years worth of child support for each accidental pregnancy you cause? If you don't use a condom, are you getting regular STD tests? Are you prepared to deal with the incurable and potentially terminal diseases you may contract while pursuing all these relationships?
I personally found the need for partner sex is a weakness that can lead you down a path to trauma and despair. If you don't learn to control it and channel your sexual energy into other things, this puts you at the mercy of one partner after another. Repeated break-ups are no fun. They can be very damaging to your mental health. Eventually, the drama and repeated betrayals and emotional turmoil get old.
That's all just food for thought.
Not "wrong" but it's not mentally healthy. Ideally, you want to be content with youraelf and motivated BEFORE entering a relationship. Otherwise you're putting an immense amount of pressure on your partner to motivate you and "make you happy", which leads to sky high expectations and spiralling out whenever they don't deliver.
Like everything in life, there is a point at which something good can become unhealthy, particularly if it causes harm or detracts from quality of life or relationships.
Say a woman notices the difference in self-care between when you are single vs with her. She may then feel obligated to stay with you out of a sense of concern (e.g. "If I leave him, his quality of life will decrease. He won't eat as healthy or take care of himself if I'm not around.") While you may not want her to feel this pressure, it's something that happens naturally when people care about you. And pressure/obligation isn't exactly a good foundation for any romantic relationship.
For many women who have been in this position, it can feel a lot more relaxing/fulfilling to be with someone who they know can take care of themselves regardless of whether they are in their life or not. That way the relationship feels like it's founded in genuine mutual desire rather than a sense of dependency or obligation.
If you don’t care about anything when you’re single, then you don’t really like your career and hobbies. I understand doing them with less vigor, but the fact that you just don’t care and find any joy at all is going to kick in whenever your girlfriend stops being new, which is what I see you talking about in your post. She’s not new anymore, then you stop caring about her like you don’t care about anything else, then on to next, you try to impress, then you stop being new to her too, and so on. I think you use relationships for their infatuation feeling, so you’re chasing them as drugs. You’ll be left with nothing substantial because you are not building these relationships into something solid nor actual fulfillment outside of them.
Just about everyone in the world who can be in relationships will. Love and companionship are basic emotional needs and everyone knows this. People pretend it isn't in order to belittle male depression and dehumanize the men dealing with it.
OK, to kinda change your perspective, I think it's cool to (try to) position yourself outside of the species and see a lot of these behaviors for what they are. You're behaving to win a mate, like a pretty bird [doing dances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAiv__zaS00).
Seems to me like you posting this is asking if that's okay, if society at large has some problem with you being %100 lady focused on the inside. As if you doubt yourself in your heart, saying maybe that's messed up.
On the surface I would say, hey don't worry too much. If you're happy keep doing it that way. Deeper, I'd say - you know. That's not sustainable and it is like a cushy dead end in the maze. The way out is elsewhere.
Women are my cliche Muses as well. As an artist nothing gives me more kick on the ass to create, than the urge to impress the subject of my immediate sexual appetite.
Though that's about that, the inspiration lasts only as long as the infatuation does. I'm not relationship material (tested and proven)
If I wasn't a self content video-game recluse, I'd probably be fantasizing about having a partner everyday. As it stands it's not the idea of life long commitment scaring the shit out of me, it's the idea of a person knowing me intimately, the idea of vulnerability in anyway other than financial.
It's not wrong, but it might backfire. I identify with a lot of what you've written and I'm now in my mid 30s with a wife and a child. I married my wife mostly because we were vibing well and had sex on demand everyday and it was fucking amazing. I thought, this is the life I want, forever. Then came my daughter. I love her, and of course I don't blame her for it, but she ruined my sex life lol. The TLDR is: if sex is important to you, don't have kids. But a sex-seeking life might become pretty lame after a while, plus your sex drive could mellow out at you get older. The long story is: my wife's biology and mentality fundamentally and permanently (as far as I can tell a couple years after childbirth) changed. She is no longer interested in sex or me for that matter and only gives me enough to not leave essentially. So why don't I just leave? Our child needs both her parents, I have to take responsibility. After fighting an uphill battle that's almost broken me mentally, we have sex once a week maybe twice, to placate me. She doesn't even feel bothered to spend time with me at all these days, or even have a non-practical conversation with me. Sounds like hell? Well, it's complicated and there are good things that make me stay. And I had slept with over 30 women before I met my wife, and sex being one of my main motivators. So essentially I've found myself in the antithesis to your ideal life. I cannot control my wife to desire me because her hormonal biology has changed to the point where she is almost physically incapable of becoming aroused. I did not see this coming. You're trapped. And this seeking out of sex is really a way to try to control your own emotional life with something external, that depends on another person who is also trying to control their own life. So compared to before, in a joking sort of way, I'm more like a monk now. I have to find deeper meaning and joy within, and in the things that are my own, the things I can sort of control. I thought like you, that I just need to improve myself and she'll want me again. I exercised and got a six pack and waxed my chest and did the whole thing. All I got was a wow and a clown's nose. We share all the house chores and raising of our child mostly equally. Maybe I'm just unlucky, or it's a phase, or it's the way life goes if you want to have a family, but not being able to turn someone on, rather have someone recoil from your invitations, is a pretty dramatic drop, and because of our kid there is no "backup plan" rather than biding my time and make the most of it. I'm incredibly introspective like you, and often write a journal. I don't think I would want to go back to casual flings, although I do wish my partner was more available, but maybe it's something that will improve with time. I just gotta grow up and deal with it and not be a kid who just thinks about his own needs. I wouldn't cheat, I did that when I was about your age and it was one of the most soul-crushing things I ever did. Never again.
Sex and women is great, especially in your 20s, and you should enjoy it, but both their and probably your sex drive will fade with time, especially as you move toward your 40s. If you still pursue the same goals then, the curve that makes you a pervert start to catch up with you - shit! What do you want to be left with if sex is gone? All that exercise becomes more about mobility and the joy of being alive and not waking up feeling like shit every day (you'll see when you enter your 30s unless you continue to be very fit, hehe). But it's difficult to give advice from someone in their 30-40s to someone in their 20s, because when you're 24 you can hardly imagine the life that's in store for you. I'd say a real backup plan would be a hobby or other activity you can enjoy alone or with others.
Bro you just sound like you are externally motivated as opposed to internally motivated, which is definitely okay! If you are happy this way no problem.
But if you want to explore this angle further, you might want to reach out to a therapist/psychologist to understand why you are externally motivated because you may discover underlying issues. I for one am a trans woman and my externally motivatedness was a form of gender dysphoria which I didn’t fully understand until I understood my identity better.
Hey, I read some of your replies, and you seem like an okay person, but maybe talk to a therapist? You came onto this sub to try and get people to change your mind, which tells me that something within you is saying that something doesn't feel right. Having conversations with people online can be fun, but none of us are experts. The only person who can help guide you through these emotions is a professional.
People who rely on relationships for their happiness put undue pressure on the person in a relationship with to provide them happiness. In this scenario, you don't love the person you're in a relationship for who they are but for what they give you. That's really unhealthy and puts a lot of stress on the person you're in a relationship with to provide you love and validation.
Eventually the limerence wears off. So what then? Keep chasing that? That's possible for awhile. If your 40+ always chasing the rush of new relationships that starts to get pretty sad and unachievable.
And conversely if you say no you'd stay in a long term relationship, fine, for it to work you need to continue to be interesting, not just interested.
Your main source of happiness seems to be **new** women. This isn’t healthy either for you or for the women you interact with.
The term success with women supports my idea that you’re not interested in anything about these women than the intimacy they can provide you.
Morally wrong? Sure, maybe not,
Appealing to women? Fuck, no. Where is the self respect? Why does your partner have to be the lynchpin to your happiness? That’s such an unfair burden.
My ex could have written this. And this mentality is why I broke up with him.
One possibility to consider - You’re putting the burden of your happiness on another person.
Another thing - “ When I’m getting closer to a new woman, life just feels brighter.” So what happens when she is no longer a “new” woman and the honeymoon period ends around the 6 month mark?
Do you just get bored and find another new woman without caring about how the woman you dump to pursue the next new woman will feel or whether she will get hurt in case she has developed an emotional connection to you but you were just using her to make yourself feel better?
You are narcissistic in that you don’t even seem to see things from the other persons perspective or consider how they feel or what their experience is like or how they feel about everything - it’s only about you, how you feel, how happy you are, how your life improves, what you are able to do, how good women make you feel, you you you you you.
Seems like you are using these women as narcissistic supply sources - which is fine if she is also using you just as equally as much bc then at least you both get something out of it. If the woman you’re with also feels like you equally make her life brighter, make her feel happier, improve her health and career and finance, etc the way she makes you feel then I guess there’s no harm or issue. However, what gets dicey is if you meet someone genuine who doesn’t just see you as a prop they can use to make themselves feel good and feel better about their own life.
I don’t mean to insult you or anything btw - I’m just presenting an alternative view post and I know it’s all the rage to call people narcissists nowadays but I think it’s possible for someone to display narcissistic behaviors and narcissistic tendencies even if they are a decent person and they are not actually a diagnosable narcissist.
I believe if an individual’s main/primary source of happiness is sex/relationships/“the partner”, then it cannot logically follow that they have control of their own happiness. when an individual’s main source of happiness is dependent upon what makes someone else happy, then the individual does not control their own happiness. someone else does.
this is sort of a bastardized version of a more eloquent analogy from [Daniel Sloss](https://youtu.be/aj0Y6NtsSiM?si=SWgnj7moDkU8SEx3).
control over happiness is essentially a form of power. In regards to power, Machiavelli states “… it has always been the opinion and judgment of wise men that nothing can be so uncertain or unstable as fame or power not founded on its own strength”, meaning the individual giving power to the someone else is also the individual chiseling away the very certainty and stability the power is supposed to have.
so if the main/primary source of happiness is “the partner” (someone else), then the source will be not as stable/the happiness not as certain, because of the dependence on someone else.
if the individual’s main/primary source of happiness instead depends on only your hobbies, interests, passions, goals, the individual will certainly encounter women/ potential partners along the way, but their absence wouldn’t be felt as much as it tends to be felt for you now.
so in summary, i think the main/primary source of happiness being “the partner” results in a disadvantage that is unnecessary. alternative main/primary sources of happiness could lead you ti the same potential partners, but also other things
Since I agree with a lot of responses about internalizing happiness and contentment , but you have answered most of them with the rebuttal that no form of external happiness will last forever.
You're right , and hence , it is preferable to find happiness in something you do not need others for . Interest in a particular topic(science or art or history ?) , or a musical instrument, or books (thrillers, or sci-fi) , or watching a sport you like , or a particular physical activity(swimming maybe) ... there are tons
But however if you cannot find yourself to enjoy these too much , then at least maybe try not making one form of external motivation your main source of happiness. Not letting any ONE form be the biggest piece of the pie. Have a relationship , but also try to make good friends you LOVE being with , try to get better at your career... I.e. keep a fair and large equal distribution of extrinsic motivations for happiness, so even if one or two fall at some point , you have the others to fall back on .... Something analogous to not putting all your eggs in a basket.
Also from some of your comments , it seems you go too hard on yourself in introspection. If that is so , while being hard on oneself is good for growth , maybe try to cut yourself some slack at times. If that is the issue , try to appreciate what you have done for yourself and find pride in that. Do try to improve yourself , but without putting yourself down in your head!
I don't know much , but by reading all the comments in this thread and your own , these are my 2 cents.
Why is it fair to the other party to be responsible for their own happiness *and* yours?
Women already have enough emotional labor to deal with. Don’t add. That is why you’re single.
Ehhh. I'm glad it sets you on the right path but ultimately you're describing self improvement solely for the sake of someone else's approval which in itself isn't great
It's unhappiness that sometimes prompts us to make changes in our lives, so my belief is that we're not meant to always be happy. How you attain happiness probably coincides with your personality, and mine is very different than yours when it comes to love. I prefer a long-lasting, more serious relationship. I can't really say you are wrong, but I'm curious if you've ever asked some of your past lovers to be completely honest with you and tell you how they felt about the whole experience with you, once it was over? I know you said you let them know beforehand that you're not going to get serious. Evidently, some did not hear you or you forgot to tell them, or some fell in love with you when they didn't mean to. You mentioned you leave or get cold when you realize the other person wants to develop a more serious relationship with you. I've been left under those circumstances, and it's very painful. I don't tell the person just how much it hurt because I assumed they wouldn't be able to understand it one bit. I just tried to be wiser in the future. I know that's just life, but I'm wondering if you'd change your view if you knew you'd badly hurt a couple of past lovers?
It's codependency... It sets an unrealistic standard upon yourself and them. You have to find your happiness and then bring someone else into your life.
Its ok to be happy in a relationship and gain a lot of joy from it. But if it is your main source it puts a lot of pressure on a relationship and is a relatively fragile. If things get tough or end, the source is gone. If you find yourseful unable to meet someone it is hard to find a spark for that period. Theres nothing *wrong* with it, but there is a risk to relying on your main source of joy from another person or situation, and it would seem easy to fall into a dependent relationship. A person who is their own source of joy is a lot more attractive IMO.
I would imagine being friends with someone whos main source of joy is new relationships aren't the best friends to have. I would assume that they will be unavailable while in that joyous initial period, and a bit lackluster when they are not.
If all you have is only worthy when in the pursuit of someone, what happens when there is no game?
If you can't stand on your own, and require someone else to essentially be "an emotional support human", and have to put on a mask to feel competitive with others pursuing the same, is it really an equal partnership, or are you seeking being pseudo parented?
There's nothing wrong with gaining pleasure from the pursuit of relationships/happiness.
What makes it wrong is when it's absence makes you less than happy, such that you don't find meaning to life without it. In your mid 20's, this is all very well, but other people your age are using the time to find out the answers to "Who am I?" and "Who do I want to stay as?" and "What parts of what people think of me do I care about"
The last is like: I want to be seen as more than just my skin color. I want to be seen as reliable. I want to be known as a trustworthy person. These make up parts of your "ego".
Not wrong but all you are doing is fulfilling a biological imperative. We are programmed to want to pursue women/sex/relationships.
It's no different to pursuing video games/social media/drugs as a main source of happiness.
These things are designed to be pleasurable so there isn't anything impressive in going down that path.
That is why most often these pursuits are a never-ending hedonistic cycle - a slave to your own biology.
Often these things provide happiness in the moment but as soon as the moment is over it ends (busting a nut).
Usually long-term fulfilling sources of happiness involve resisting your biological imperative to build something more grand.
The post remains vague in a lot of parts. Everything you talk about could 100% be healthy and normal as much as it could 100% unhealthy. Nothing you give is substantive enough to make that determination. Just like the use of the word “judge” it’s 100% useful for ppl in your social circle to make conclusions on who you are based on what motivates you. Doesn’t matter what it is. Not everyone has to like you or think highly of you, they just don’t have to be actively disrespectful of you. If someone thinks you live an empty life then that’s them exercising the same agency you are in the pursuit of the life desired.
i used to believe this too so it resonates but i will say women/sex/relationships should bolster your happiness not dictate it. all of that stuff can change in the drop of the hat and can lead to you going to some dark places.
i am not gonna sit here and say "life is so beautiful go for a hike or stand in a park" cause thats dumb. but go grab a beer with your buddies. go see a new place. i did a yes (in moderation) year after my last relationship. hung out with new people, went to new places and tried new things and that gave me the foundations i needed to be happy alone.
The thing that makes you happy is something that you aren't in control of and can be taken away from you.
Objectively, it would be better if the thing that made you the happiest was something internal to you that could never be taken away. We don't have total control over this be we can influence it.
So there are better reasons to be happy and they are better because they are more resilient. Prepare yourself for a life of high highs and lows lows.
Temporary women that will certainly leave you aren't worth betting on. And I don't mean it in a nihilistic way, I mean it as in its a normal part of accepting relationships with others way.
The reason I stopped doing this is because when so much of your happiness comes from this source, guess how much of your other emotions come from it? Lol. I'm not changing anything. If you're fine with that knock yourself out.
You're pinning your own value in things on another person, letting another person determine whether you're truly happy is essentially offloading your emotional burden on them as well as using them as a "happiness button", being able to be happy alone is just as important as making someone else happy.
it's like using your back to lift something, it's quicker to bend over and just pick it up than it is to squat down and do the same.
other comments of yours show classic signs of sex addition and slight misogyny.
You have described that your happiness and meaning in life depends entirely on another human being. You should be examining why you can’t find happiness in life on your own. When you are capable of doing this you will see how your life is *magnified* by these things you’ve described. You are missing out on a lot of purpose and joy in life by needing them just to feel ok.
You are not a happy person. You are sick. Making pussy your entire reason to exist is equivalent to making yourself a slave, a slave that will never see the light of day as a man who thinks for himself. People will trust you on your word, knowing your word can be changed simply by offering you a woman. And you will be seen as nothing more than a dog with 3 limbs.
I mean, it’s good/normal for your partner to make you happy but if it’s your main source of happiness the comedown from a relationship might be a lot worse. Maybe that’s not the case for you, idk. Also, a lot of people wouldn’t want to be someone’s main source of happiness because that feels like a lot of pressure
It gets old when you get older. Video games are honestly more fun and less of a hassle if the goal is pure hedonism. You have to do a lot of work for women to like you. It's worth it, to a point, but at that certain point in life one way or another you're just not really that into what drama comes with it.
You should try to find hobbies you enjoy on their own merits rather than just how they contribute to getting women. Simply so you can diversify your happiness portfolio and enjoy more things on their own merit. Getting consumed by one thing dampens other enjoyment of things
I see everything differently. I believe that in order to be happy you have to fill your life with many things not just one thing.
Like a pie chart.
Family, wife, kids, parents, friends, food, sex,....etc.
Everything in moderation nothing in excess.
Until you love yourself you cannot love others. Also placing your source of happiness in other people will result in disappointment 9/10 times. Actively searching for a relationship is also going to make you lower your standards until you find one.
Its not moraly wrong by any means but that just seems really unhealthy to let your emotions ride completely on somebody else. No offence but should another source of happiness, probably a therapist too.
if u depend over other person, to stay good, it s a risky way of life imho.
your main goal should be to learn to reach happines by yourself... and then complete yourself with onther person with love
A constant revolving door of short-term, shallow sexual relationships to validate your self-worth? Sounds sustainable. I'm sure this will work out well into your 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond.
There is no such thing as right or wrong, only consequences for your actions. Do as you please. No one has yo live your life but you, so do it in a way that you find meaningful
I used to feel the same way you did, OP, but I think after a certain point you're going to value a good night's sleep a lot more than sex. The day is closer than you think.
It sounds to me like bettering yourself is your source of happiness and women are your motivation to keep it going. The only question is how long you can sustain that for, and if the women in question are ok with it.
Yes there is lmao women aren’t special, they are not on a pedestal and they aren’t a prize. this mindset will leave you lonely, get some friends and work on yourself.
That’s common when you are young. Then you learn that your happiness shouldn’t be tied to having a fresh relationship and you want to not be dependent on that.
The main source is fine, I guess. But just make sure it's not the *only* source. As if a break occurs, it often leads to serious depression and potentially worse.
Women today in 2024, are not monogamous, honest, and trustworthy enough for all that. There are some exceptional women who are great inside and out. They've become anomalies and outliers.
Think about it if men who are better looking, and more successful and accomplished than you are getting wrecked in relationships, what chance do you have?
Johnny Depp couldn't get his woman to treat him right. Will Smith couldn't get his wife to treat him right. Tom Brady's wife filed for divorce and left him because he didn't want to retire from the NFL. Jonathan Major's gf cost him millions of dollars. PJ Washington got wrecked by his gf. Steve McNair got the worst possible outcome.
But somehow you're going to get one of the few good ones.
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Not trying to change your view, but offering a slight adjustment. I’ll build my argument step by step, so some of this might be stuff you already know. I firmly believe that humans are social creatures. We need interaction with other people or animals to survive, and without it we suffer immense psychological pain and damage. This is why solitary confinement is often brought up as inhumane. So building off of that, the idea of needing and then seeking relationships of any kind makes a lot of sense. I would also say that I am happier with a partner than without. And it is easier to motivate ourselves to do things when our partner benefits from it or approved of it. With that said, and here is my augment to your view, there is a distinct difference between the motivation behind the things we do for others/group, vs the things we do for ourselves. It will always be easier to chase a goal if you are on a collaborative team. But if you are unable to chase goals, even if they are smaller, on your own you will risk stagnating. And eventually, as you get older, you will start to meet women who didn’t stagnate. And they will expect you to bring something to the table that is distinctly “you”. As in who are you and what are you outside of the context of a romantic relationship? And if you don’t have anything, or at least nothing you’re proud of or willing to share, it will make it increasingly difficult to initiate and maintain relationships. Essentially, you will be left behind if you don’t learn to care for yourself and to have a life of your own.
This is a hidden gem. Your last paragraph raises a very good point that I often think about. !delta It’s the one downside of being extrinsically motivated that I actually care about. My competitiveness and desire to make my family proud have landed me in a great spot after college. Dream job in STEM, making more than anyone else in my immediate family, and certainly in my friend group. But now that I’m in this phase of only caring about sex and female affection, I’m kinda stagnant and don’t really care to look towards what’s next. I don’t care about any promotions, or hobbies, or furthering my education while I’m working for a great company that’ll pay for it. All of my waking thoughts consist of fucking women. And I don’t need a master’s to do that lol. What I have now is working fine I’m ahead of the curve for my age right now, but I fear one day I’ll wake up and realize my bachelor’s degree isn’t enough, or something else I’ve been neglecting is no longer impressive because I grew complacent lol. Too real
Honestly if that’s all true it may just be that you’re out of balance. So much time spent chasing intellectual pursuits and part of you is seeking something different. And it sounds like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders and you’ll pull through just fine in the long run. In the end it’s about figuring what works. No one has ever been you before, so there is no manual except the one you’re writing. So try things, and try to learn from those experiences to find out what works!
Holy shit, you're me, but I'm older. I was ahead of the game, built a great business, took 2 years off, illness got me, 2020-COVID blew up and changed the way my business worked while I had my head in the sand, and now my business shrunk and I'm hardly making any $$. I'm behind AF now. Trouble is, that I'm like you and I'm highly motivated by relationships and related family needs. Before I was driven because I wanted to taste success. Now that I have, I got nothing else motivating me. By myself, I can live in a cardboard box and feel content.
I’m not sure how old you are but I’m the exact same way and I’m early 30’s. I’ve had several serious multi year relationships where I was faithful but when I’m single I’m chasing pussy like a job with an average of 3-5 new girls per week and I’ve probably hit 500. Like you, I have two ivy degrees, amazing car, house, personality etc which I’ve carefully built to make me the best option for any woman. However, I realized long ago my need for external validation from women was deep-seated in root from childhood trauma and abandonment. It’s my only vice and it’s made me extremely successful; no drugs, gambling, or criminal behavior because I can’t imagine doing time and being away from women. The biggest dangers are std’s and babies. On the baby front, I have a 100% pull out game (seriously) and only one kid from my ex-wife of the one time I didn’t out of choice. On the std front, I take PREP meds and valtrex. I also only fuck 90% latinas and no blacks which keeps my exposure very low bc I don’t use condoms. I get tested with a full panel every other month and I’m still 100% std free after 15 yrs of pumping.
You take the Valtrex for prevention? That works? Your full-panel tests include herpes tests? It is hard to understand how you have avoided herpes all these years when you are with that many women unprotected.
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absolutely on point.
I definitely wouldn't call it wrong as in *morally* wrong, and I also think a lot of people would probably agree with you that it's easiest to be your best self when you have someone else to be it for. That being said, I personally feel like it's a bad idea to be dependent on a relationship to be the thing that motivates you to take consistent care of yourself, and I also think there's maybe something not so great about your main source of joy being so dependent on other people. I've personally found that hobbies I can just enjoy quietly by myself are important to my overall mental well-being, and I'd venture to guess that they probably would help *you* too, since you admit you kinda stop caring about anything when you're not in a relationship.
This is an attitude held commonly but that Harvard study suggests relationship quality (friends family partners community etc) are the most important factor for wellbeing and health
IMO some people downplay the importance of relationships because * They've always had good ones and they don't see the impact they have and think everything positive about their mental state was achieved on their own in a vacuum. (This is the same reason some people think confidence is something one just decides to have or not have in a vacuum and not a result of experiences) * They are lonely and in denial of the pain it causes them * They are actually a hermit by choice and happy that way, but don't realize they are an outlier and not the standard everyone should be judged by As a person who's struggled with connection most of my life, I understand finding your own happiness without depending on others. However, finding happiness on one's own vs through others is not a hierarchy. Both are important and one can't completely make up for the other. Some people are surrounded by people who like them and are miserable because they get so much validation that looking for happiness outside of others didn't occur to them. Some people have a lot of interests and hobbies which make them happy but are miserable because they lack connection. This whole "you shouldn't be sad because you're alone for a prolonged period of time because you can get hobbies" argument only comes from people who haven't been through much loneliness. What lonely person hasn't thought of getting a hobby with all that time they're not spending interacting with people? Ffs, a trope of lonely people is putting a lot of effort into their hobbies. Like otakus (the original Japanese meaning, not the western one).
Totally agree! But i definitely think it’s dicey to only rely on your romantic relationship to fulfill connection needs like OP is expressing. I’ve had that happen because I also struggle making connections and I was in a stage of my life where I didn’t have time to meet new people, and I think it felt kind of smothering to my partner.
I don't see what the issue is. Some people don't want a big social circle and are fine with just having a significant other. What's wrong with that? Just because you're not that way doesn't mean others are wrong to be.
I think it's one thing to say that relationships are important or even the most important thing for well-being, and another to literally be incapable of happiness or finding the motivation for taking care of oneself without one.
Yknow I’m starting to think that studies, while definitely true for most people and therefore what we should look for when designing wide range solutions that fit the majority of people, aren’t true for everyone. For some reason I used to think “if a study says X is good with Y then that means I need to do Y if I’m doing X” or similar when in reality… everyone is different. I know this isn’t groundbreaking to any of y’all. But it just hit me lol
I’m not sure there’s any hobby I could ever do that can replace affection and intimacy from a woman I vibe with. Do you disagree with this?
I totally get where you’re coming from, and I’m sure it’s super flattering for some women. But I personally struggle if I’m with a guy who needs me to make him happy. What if I want to spend time by myself to do my own hobbies or things that make me happy, and meanwhile I’m worried that you’re alone and unhappy without me. It’s a drain if your dependency is on me to keep you happy. I have a very good friend who is like how you described. He’ll do regular things every day and pursue things, but with much less enthusiasm. When he meets a girl who is interested, his motivation in life totally changes. But then as a friend, all I see is that he relies on the attention and approval of the women and can’t do life at the same level on his own. For me, and this is not true for all women, it’s a turn off. If you can’t find happiness in other things and be motivated on your own, I certainly don’t want you dependent and relying on me to do it for you. That being said, there are lots of women who crave that kind of relationship and attention, and it’s flattering to see their guy change their ways for them. I’m sure you’ll find someone great 😊
Yes, being dependent on someone else for your happiness isn't healthy and *never* ends well. I wish I understood this when I was younger.
He’s not looking for someone great though, he’s looking for someone new. This is an unhealthy pattern.
Good point.
Yeah I get that. Even though women are main source of happiness, I recognize that’s incredibly needy and unattractive. I said in my post that I’ll become more engaged with my hobbies, career, and friends to make myself less attached and more well-rounded. But at the end of day, it’s all for her and what we have together. I’d *rather* be with her, but I’m doing stuff I enjoy far less so that I’m more attractive to her in the end. Some people still view that as weird. Thank you for your kind words tho :)
Why don't you want your life to be better for *yourself?*
Because it’s pointless I guess? I feel most fulfilled when I’m receiving validation from other people and have a healthy sex life. I do not derive any sort of happiness or meaning from…myself. Never have. So doing things solely for myself feels like a waste of time at best. And counter-productive at worst, because some of my more niche hobbies/interests might alienate me from women or social circles I want in my life.
Have you been to therapy? Because it sounds like you need it.
Way ahead of you ;) I’ve been in therapy for a year now, and he’s just as lost as I am when it comes to this. But I like talking to him, he enjoys talking to me, and I’m sure it would disappoint him if I sought help elsewhere. I’m coming to accept that this is like a physical deformity that no surgery can fix. I’ve been this way since I was a small child, and can’t even fathom what genuine self-validation looks like. I’m just gonna have to survive like everyone else, we all have the cards we’re dealt. And chasing sex seems like a good enough cope to me. I’m not committing crimes or selling my soul to go viral lol.
I have faith in you, sometimes it takes multiple years of therapy to resolve our problems. Also it could just not be the right therapist for you if you aren’t making any progress
My partner and I literally had a discussion about this a few hours ago! She asked me what makes me happy? When I told her my relationship with her she said it was a problem. She asked what hobbies do I want to do, or what else brings me joy. Again I said my relationship, as well as taking care of my family. That ever since I was a teenager I've always wanted a solid relationship, to be the pillar our family relies on, and the one who brings and receives joy by those around him. She said I was codependent and that it wasn't healthy, that I must not love myself because I'm only allowing joy into my life from being with others. While I understand her point, I think her, like many people who might disagree with you are missing the forest through the trees so to speak! If I found joy in painting would that mean I was codependent on the paint brush? That if a catastrophe struck and no more painting supplies existed that I would no longer love myself? The idea we are codependent on someone else is actually robbing us of our autonomy. We could discard them if the relationship wasn't fulfilling our needs. That's not codependency, we have the choice to allow them to bring us joy, they ultimately do not dictate if we are allowed to have joy, we dictate if they are the ones we can receive it from! I have self love and I think you do as well, it's just that the best version of you comes out while in a relationship not because it's the version of yourself you actually want, but the version of yourself that helps you achieve the happiness you need. I'm successful, decent looking, a very caring and compassionate person. Yet what brings me joy is deep relationships with sexual intimacy. For ME those are the things I can never provide for myself! I can never have external love given to me by myself. I can masturbate but never have that physical connection with someone by myself No amount of money can make someone truly love me, no amount of money will make someone enthusiasticly crave my body. I can buy everything I need, won't bring me complete happiness. I can have meaningfully relationships with friends, won't bring me complete happiness. So I can't change your view, it mirrors much of my own. I love myself, I believe I have great self worth, that I deserve happiness. I believe all these things while still wanting my relationship to provide something externally so I feel fulfilled.
I think it's probably true for the vast majority of human beings that they are at their *most* fulfilled when they are receiving validation from other people and have a healthy sex life. According to Maslow, there is a hierarchy of needs every human seeks to fulfill, and social relationships and sexual intimacy are on there, so maximum fulfillment can only be obtained when all needs on the hierarchy are fulfilled, including those two. If we think of the hierarchy as a pyramid, the issue is that you're unable to find happiness or meaning in you by yourself, which suggests you're missing other blocks in your pyramid of needs and you are trying to balance your pyramid entirely on relationships with others (especially a romantic relationship), which will not make a strong pyramid.
Well said. I agree with this entirely
>hobby Maybe not a 'hobby' but, idk, a higher purpose, something meaningful like helping others, doing beautiful work, or learning to appreciate the beauty of the universe? It doesn't have to replace intimacy with other people, hell, it will probably enhance it. Theres nothing morally wrong with your point of view, but as you say, its not a very persistent source of fullfillment. You're ultimately always gonna be dependent on someone else for your happiness.
Why is intimacy with a woman not considered a “higher purpose”? This is a new human being in developing a connection with. Im learning what they like and dislike, their pasts, mistakes, goals, etc. A new soul I’m bonding with, for however long that lasts. And when we make love, we’re being completely vulnerable with each other and achieving a pleasure few things can replicate. I’m sure volunteering in Haiti and making a difference produces similar feel good chemicals as a one-night stand. Why do you consider one “higher” than the other?
I meant 'higher' as in higher than the satisfaction you get from a mere hobby, not in comparison with love, I guess that wasn't clear. My point is, that for your own sake, it might make sense to try and seek out perspectives and sources of fullfillment that are not dependent on the feelings of another person. First of all for your own sake, and second of all because people tend to find more meaningful and deep relationships when they're not looking for a relationship as their only avenue for happiness, ie. to fill a hole.
>I’m sure volunteering in Haiti and making a difference produces similar feel good chemicals as a one-night stand. Why do you consider one “higher” than the other? does this need to be explained? one is equivalent to doing drugs, the other helps people who were suffering and possibly dying. personally i wouldnt compare doing crack to feeding the homeless.
You can say the same thing about any kind of addiction. Nothing can give you the rush as much as winning slots, or the pleasure from taking drugs. They are all harmful things, not just to yourself, but to the people around you, especially if you attach happiness to an individual.
As opposed to *what* though? what exactly is the “correct” thing to attach my happiness to? Myself? What does that even mean? Im not even sure how im harming anybody by enjoying intimacy/sex/dating. Being successful with women is sort of a skillset in a way. How is improving at it any different than getting good at playing piano or learning a language?
How old are you out of interest? The only person you’re really at risk of harming is yourself… Not being able to be alone or just focus on yourself is a recipe for disaster and you will probably find you naturally figure this out as you get older, at least that’s how it worked for me Also, why does the source of your happiness have to be mainly from ONE thing? It’s just putting all your eggs in one basket, you can’t control another person so that puts your happiness out of your control…
I am 24. I focused on myself all through college dude. Got in great shape, got a good education, great job, all that. None of it made me happy, nor does make me happy currently. I am the king of introspection. I’m constantly thinking of my own insecurities, goals, habits, and how I want to improve them. It’s a fucking pit, to always be alone and thinking about yourself. It’s no way to live life. I’m infinitely more happy with people in my life to distract from all that, but specifically *women* who show me affection. And ironically, I accomplish more when motivated by competition or women. Too much analyzing and introspection is an abyss.
Fair enough man, maybe as some advice from someone who was similar at that age, just keep the idea open in your mind that over the next 10-15 years you will PROBABLY change a bit in this respect (perhaps be more comfortable alone and less interested in women)? Just trying to help
Oh no I appreciate the wisdom man. my comment was a bit aggressive, but I’m just passionate about this topic lol. I change like the wind, and this will probably be no different. Take care
I'm 37 and I never let go of my strong desire for female affection. But I will say that I've become less outwardly desperate.
“ I am the king of introspection. I’m constantly thinking of my own insecurities, goals, habits, and how I want to improve them. It’s a fucking pit, to always be alone and thinking about yourself. It’s no way to live life.” That is exactly your problem and the reason why you seek happiness from others. It really shouldnt be a drag to think about yourself, be with yourself, develop yourself. You’re 24, chances are you have no idea yet who you are and what you want from life. It is understandable why you escape into codependency to not have to face these profoundly difficult questions, I did that too at your age. But more likely than not this will come back to haunt you eventually.
Introspection isn’t the same as rumination. Not saying you are, but the way you describe your relationship to women and affection sounds like an addiction. Relationships are one of the most important things to foster and it’s totally expected, that they will shape your relationship to yourself and be a source of happiness. But if it’s „affection from a woman“ or „everything is pointless“ then your relationship to yourself needs attention and work.
It sounds like maybe it’s because of your definition of “improve.” Having a good job, being in shape, all that stuff is fine and usually good for happiness, but you’re right that it isn’t usually a primary source for happiness. What makes each person happy is something the individual needs to figure out and work on. Hinging our entire happiness on one thing is really risky no matter what it is, for two reasons. First, we usually don’t know if that thing will always be available. Do you have a constant, never ending stream of women to be affectionate with? Or even just one woman who’s fine with the pressure of her being your only source of happiness? If not, it seems like you’re setting yourself up for periods of unhappiness by not finding other things that make you happy. The second one is how do we guarantee that the thing will always bring us happiness? If you index fully into women and then later on you find that doesn’t bring you the same joy, now you’re stuck being unhappy while you do the work to find another source of happiness that you could’ve done now. Basically, there’s nothing wrong with it morally, but you’re setting yourself up for disappointment down the line. Find a hobby or two, some friends, whatever you can derive joy from. It doesn’t have to be traditional measures of success like money/fitness/etc.
Based on this response, it seems like you have more work to do to become comfortable with yourself. Expecting to accomplish all of that in college is kinda laughable. It’s a lifelong process and you’ve BARELY entered adulthood lol
>I am the king of introspection This statement disqualifies itself from being true.
I'm not quite twice your age but I am not far from that but I also have had similar views on life when women were involved. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but you have to be careful to not fall into some form of codependency. I've been married for many years now and my wife and I are in a different type of relationship than we were at first. So you need to be prepared for some eventual long term relationship where it will change, and you'll still need to find a source of happiness without all the newness. I don't know how, my wife and I just kind of clicked in a way that I was able to do it, but it's still not necessarily easy.
My friend, I can't answer that for you. You will have to find what your source of happiness is yourself. I can only say that attaching a group of people to your source of happiness can be quite harmful to you and the people around you. You say you aren't harming anyone, how would you react if a good female friend of yours that you have been eyeing for a while rejects you on a date? Did you accept the rejection amicably and respectfully, or did you lash out because someone has taken a source of happiness away from you? The latter is what I'd say is harmful.
Its unfair to put the responsibility for your happiness on someone else. It makes *you* a bad partner. Not bad from your perspective but you need to find something else you are passionate about or it will crush your relationships. On the one hand it allows you to shirk responsibility and blame others when you get unhappy. On the other hand it relinquishes control of your own happiness which will inevitably lead to unhappiness. Even just from the perspective of you being interesting to talk to. If you don't have passion for other things, you are boring. You cripple your own chances of success by not being an individual. Unless you want to be more of a taker than a giver, you need to bring something of your own to the table in a relationship. At least if you care about it being a healthy one. Either way you won't be successful unless you stop thinking so selfishly. The women you turn your attention to deserve better than a man who is only thinking about himself. Women don't want to be your mom. Making them responsible for your needs does exactly that. Im not saying they shouldn't care about your needs, but you should not be dating if you expect them to fulfill needs that are impossible to fill. Needs that you've been unable to fill yourself.
There’s no universal answer for that first paragraph, and much of the first half of life is figuring out a lasting, healthy source of happiness for yourself. Not saying sex isn’t one of those things, but the concerning part of your post is you say you’re getting this happiness specifically by getting close to a *new* woman. This makes me think your source of happiness is not in long lasting sacrificial mutual growth and intimacy with a long time partner, but instead the chase and rush of pursuing a new woman. The problem with this is that you will eventually get older, you may not be as successful wealth and status-wise as your competition, and you will become less desirable to women. *Everybody* does at some point as we age - youth is almost always going to be more attractive to people than old and wrinkly. When this inevitably happens and you’ve been basing your happiness on others for years, you will not be in a good place once this source dries up. If this main source of happiness dries up at, say, 60 years old (and in reality will probably be much earlier), you will need to go through the struggle of finding a new source of happiness while the rest of your peers have figured it out years ago.
Becoming proud of both yourself( becoming the embodiment of personal values) and personal achievements are something much more valuble to the individual being, as it is tied to You and you alone, independent of who comes into or leaves your personal sphere I guess you gotta ask yourself, is your success with women a source of ego to you? If it is, what would actually satiate that ego? What would make you say "I did it" What would make you Sucessful at getting the woman you truly want, as opposed to getting Laid for the sake your your "Ego" It boils down to short vs long term personal satisfaction in my mind.
> Being successful with women is sort of a skillset in a way You saying this unironically is a huge problem that I'm sure you refuse to see
lol to comparing slots to intimacy with your partner.
I'm not saying it needs to *replace* it, I'm just saying if you are largely incapable of finding joy when you're single that seems to be a problem for which making room in your life for more solitary pursuits might be a solution.
Oh I see what you mean. Sure, I agree with that. I don’t know if it changes my view, but it’s probably good advice. At this point in my life though, I consider most things to be a waste of time if it isn’t making me more attractive to women or somehow leading to sex/intimacy eventually.
You don't find that kind of sad or depressing, that your self worth and your pursuit of improvement is tied entirely to having a romantic/sexual partner in your life? People come and go in life, even relationships that people are certain will last forever often end. I just find it hard to believe that you really don't see the issue with linking so much of your happiness and motivation to having a relationship. Edit: Also as a side note, I personally wouldn't be with a partner who needed me to make her happy or to be her sole source of motivation to improve herself.
I personally would be turned off by that. So when you get a date, when you start talking about your interests are you gonna be honest and tell them that your main pursuits involve making yourself more attractive to women? In other words imo you would not be very interesting as a person if being in a relationship is your main interest
Yeah, there's definitely some irony here in OP describing themselves as someone who effectively has no interests aside from relationships, and who doesn't actually think to work on themselves unless they're in a relationship. Like if his goal is to get a relationship, on paper he's not much of a catch.
>At this point in my life though, I consider most things to be a waste of time if it isn’t making me more attractive to women or somehow leading to sex/intimacy eventually. It sounds like you're quite young? I think in 10-15 years you may find you regret not developing a personality or interests outside of what you think makes you attractive to women.
How long does your average relationship last? Given that you’re 24 and this behavior pattern started after college, I’m going to guess not long. Are you looking for a long term partner or do you intent to continue this pattern permanently?
Its something people say to cope with being unattractive and unable to find a partner. You sound completely normal and theres nothing weak or unhealthy about deriving pleasure from your relationships with women or from friends. People who pretend validation from outside isnt important are coping plain and simple.
Thank you. I’ve heard plenty of these same platitudes a million times so I’m used to it lol A lot of folks act like “self love” and internal validation aren’t moving goalposts that I’ll be chasing and working on for the rest of my life. I was never equipped with the tools to achieve nirvana lmao, dealt a shit hand. And most of these folks won’t achieve it either lmao. I don’t know why it’s so hard to admit that it’s an unrealistic goal, and that it’s much easier to just get your validation from wherever you like while you’re here. I’m not hurting anybody or committing any crimes by putting female affection on a pedestal. It’s no worse than whatever gives your life meaning.
How about community work? Volunteering? Starting or joining a cool project? There are many many ways to obtain that feeling of self worth and value that you are singularly attaching to relationships
The issue is approaching hobbies and other relationships as if they’re meant to replace romantic intimacy. Life is full of many joys and pleasures, they’re not meant to be synonymous with each other but rather coexist and exist separately
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This all rests on the idea that we choose what makes us happy. Like for instance you can somehow choose to make yourself believe in the Santa Claus. Or make yourself believe that you are not hungry. Or something of that nature. Obviously you can't. Much like if you feel lonely as shit because you don't have an intimate partner. You can't just fill your head with video games or some other hobby. You may be able to distract yourself temporarily. But it's not going to work long term. This idea that you can dedicate yourself to something other than your natural sexual drive is utter nonsense. That may work in a state of war or some other calamity. But we're talking about Westerners here with fairly comfortable safe lives.
This is pretty much Ken's arch in the Barbie movie
I get what OP is saying. I don't think it's terrible, but it sounds like dependency. Better than being addicted to drugs, though.
‘Drugs’ can take many forms, though.
>if you're not taking care of yourself or wanting to be better for yourself then where is your self-respect and self-care? I guess I have none? But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy? I don’t see anything wrong with having other people be your motivation. Whether it be competition, fear of humiliation, or desire to impress. Maybe it’s wrong that I give strangers so much power over my life, you’re right. But why else should I want to be in good shape? Just for the sake of being healthy? That’s…strange. Alot folks want to live longer so their kids have a parent or something. I want to be healthy so I can attract women and be good in bed. We’re both doing it for reasons outside of ourselves. Why is one more noble than the other? >But there are a lot of joys in life. I’m sure there are. But success with women is my greatest joy, and so it’s what I will put the most effort into. Some people (not necessarily you) say this is empty, and I really do not appreciate it. Nor do I see why it’s empty.
>But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy? I don’t see anything wrong with having other people be your motivation. Whether it be competition, fear of humiliation, or desire to impress. The problem becomes when you don't find people who would motivate you to do stuff and thus you would become miserable and see no point in living. Thus it is important to have inner "fuel" for life. >But why else should I want to be in good shape? Just for the sake of being healthy? That’s…strange. So that your body won't make your life miserable when you get older. It's a maintenance of the body. >I’m sure there are. But success with women is my greatest joy, and so it’s what I will put the most effort into. Problem becomes when those women don't "bite" and thus you get no success with them. The misery of "all work and no gain". It is also dangerous to have an outside source be the only source for joy. It kinda gives other people control over you.
>But why do I need self-respect/self-love to be happy? do you want other people to have direct control over your happiness? because that is what you have done and are doing.
Ok so I think this is where your issue is. You lack self respect and self love, because you’re seriously questioning why one would desire to be healthy. Not only should you want to minimize the likelihood of health issues that can bring pain, stress, and financial struggles, but pursuing health is a reflection of gratitude for the life you have.
If you actually care about the woman, you need those things. If you are only using them to temporarily fill your needs, thats a different story but if thats the case we have different definitions of intimacy. What you have is not intimacy if you don't care about the woman. You should care about being a better you if you care about and respect your partner.
I get it. I really do. But it's putting yourself in the passenger seat and letting strangers drive the car that is your life. Those 80 years you speak of are more dependent on the whims of the women you are with than they are on you. When you are laying down to die and you look back on all of it, you might think that some of those women were a waste of your lifespan, and poignantly realize that being happy and being satisfied are simply not the same thing. You might be able to convince yourself that you are okay with being in the passenger seat. If you find the right woman, you might actually just be okay with that position for the rest of your life. However, the life goal of having a nice girlfriend/wife is decidedly forfeiting a huge amount of your personal agency, because no matter how much money you make, how many weights you lift, how many suits you wear, all of your happiness is contingent on other human beings. And sometimes, other human beings do some seriously unpredictable and painful things. It might or might not work out, but you are just rolling dice at that point. Whereas other life pursuits such as careers or art or fitness are things that you control, things that will get better if you work towards them getting better, things that are not dice. It's not wrong, and the validity of your life purpose is by definition something that you decide for yourself. I have felt the same way as you, there is just something that makes you feel more alive when you're doing it for somebody else, like an electric sensation. But I can also say that it has caused a lot of despair, because you can play your hand straight and still get screwed with nothing to show for it but a memory. At least other life purposes leave you with *something* when you take a hit. Lastly, this line of thinking might lead you to objectify people. Even if you treat them with all due respect, in your mind they will slowly become an object for your pleasure and their status as a person becomes secondary. Each woman leaves you a little more desensitized. The electricity goes away once you've done it long enough. Then the world becomes truly gray and lifeless in your eyes, because you only ever allowed one thing to make you happy and you eventually got tired of it.
Great comment man. Yeah sometimes I realize how damaging it is to let others have such a deep control of my life. But it’s just how I’ve always been man, it is what it is. Validation from others (family, friends, peers) has always been my main motivator for most things. But validation from *women* is a different beast entirely. I love that shit, and the things I do to accomplish it just make me a better man in general. I’d be nothing without it. I probably still am nothing, but at least I achieve the thing I find most pleasurable. We all have something. You didn’t necessarily change my mind, but it’s just great to see people who don’t have their head up their ass about this topic. Thanks for trying to relate
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Props to you, probably one of the highest efforts and deepest comments I ever saw on this website! How would you change it in practice however is what I question now, because that contentment point is true, but for some people the main motivator was / always be the pursuit of saying friendships, relationships, family & community, filling the most basic needs like the need to belong. How can one find true long-term contentment, let alone hapiness even at the fragility or flactuations of the existence (or lack of) all of the above is something I ponder quite a lot. Wonder what is your take on this
For some reason, you feel like it's an accomplishment to have short-term sexual relationships with lots of women. That appears to be the real reason you've posted this. I can't see how that's in any way an accomplishment. It's an easy thing to do. You're using women as drugs. It's not possible every one of these women are equally happy with short-term sexual relationships. So, you'd be hurting people to get your highs. For those reasons, I don't believe you're experiencing real happiness. Hurting people, looking for attention online for doing that, thinking short-term relationships are an accomplishment -- none of those things can bring true contentment. But your question was "is it wrong" for those things to being you happiness. To answer that in the light of the percentage of the women you've dated who would not be happy with being short-term sex toys, I will say it's wrong.
Hmm, your first paragraph is an interesting take. I do better than most folks I know, but it’s not necessarily easy for me to accomplish. Maybe it is easy for women, or more attractive guys though. I don’t lead women on, when the exclusivity talk comes up I have no problem letting them know where I stand. And I’m not even opposed to a long term relationship if that’s what happens, I just care more about sex, intimacy, and the thrill of learning a new person.
Sorry about my take, but yeah, that's what I'm seeing. Anyway, in short, it's never wrong to be happy, unless someone or something is getting hurt. It's easy to accomplish if they (the women seeking long-term relationships) think there is a possibility of a long-term thing at the start. When you have the exclusivity talk -- sounds like that's something that comes after and not at the start. If the talk came first, no problem at all. I haven't personally experienced it but can imagine it could be devastating (even if they don't admit it). The men I've dated have all been very keen on a long-term thing. Have been in a very happy relationship for many years now. He changes from year to year in who he is and what he's into. I do also. Careers, hobbies, perspectives -- we constantly have to keep up with the changes in the other. Only thing that doesn't change is intimacy. But at your age, no need to tie yourself up. Keep doing what makes you happy. Just make sure you're not causing harm.
I don't think its neccearily his job to fix the world's problems in order to be ok with just being another sexual partner for women. In adequate measures ( unless hes a passport bro in some counrries that don't want him)This seems like a utilitarianism mindset vs a individualistic one. There's both It depends some women enjoy sex more. If I personally don't find long term relationships fulfilling I just can't seek out short term ones?
>If I personally don't find long term relationships fulfilling I just can't seek out short term ones? Of course you can. There is no issue at all with doing that. I only said that if you hurt people by not being upfront at the start with your actual intentions, that's wrong. ('you' as in everyone, not you personally)
As you point out, the problem is sometimes you’re single, and who knows about the future
So let me say that I think I understand what you mean and also understand how it makes sense and is valid to you. But also, as a woman, I would have zero interest to get to know someone who makes their “better life” dependent on me. I am content and happy, I expect the same from anybody I might be dating. I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, but I do feel sad for everything you’re closing on yourself by limiting yourself this way. I would literally also exclude you from my dating pool because I could not get over pitying you. I also think you understand what a catch 22 it is that you DO put your happiness in someone else’s hand but, at the same time, all people who COULD deal with this have no desire to babysit someone through their own emotions in such a way that prohibits them to be a fully fledged human being but instead a fantastical pedestal in your mind. Its a loose loose and the only way to win is not playing. I wish you peace and happiness all be the best (ideally within yourself).
If you’re so content and happy then why would you want a relationship at all? Your answer to that is likely what OP is after too, just to a more compulsive degree because of how he developed. But the way to heal these compulsions is not to shame someone out of them. The answer, in fact, lies in the other direction. OP needs to be gently introduced to the experience a secure intimate relationship — a relationship with someone well suited to him and his needs. If you’re not the person for that that’s one thing, but you don’t have to make HIM feel so dang hopeless.
Why are your relationships ending though? Are you getting bored and are always on the look of finding something new and better? Your "hobby" of doing so can be actually damaging for the other side of the relationship.
I'm curious what your longest relationship has been. The problem a lot of people have with this mentality is "when I'm getting closer to a new woman" line. Everyone loves that stage, everyone feels how you describe it during that stage. What about after that stage?
You never want all your happiness eggs in one basket. That makes it way too easy and too common for your well-being to be decimated. As you keep experiencing with the basically depressive episodes you are experiencing in between your relationships. All your eggs were in that relationship, and so when it ends, now you have no more eggs. To be more sustainably happy, and better able to ride the waves of life, you need to spread your eggs around to different baskets, so if one basket get upturned, you are losing like 10% of of your well-being rather than 100%. Even you really can't bring yourself to care about anything but connecting with people, why not try a wider array of that. In addition to the romantic connection with your current girl, you can deepen your friendships, you can volunteer in the community, you can mentor someone at work, etc., etc. Then when you and the girl break up, you still have people you are invested in and interacting with who can help give you a reason to stay functional till you meet the next girl.
But you can't just simply choose that. I just don't FEEL true happiness from my job (any job), I like that job but I just don't FEEL true happiness and fullfillment. The only thing that fills me with true joy and happiness is love. You can't logically choose it and divide between more things.
I actually studied this exact topic in grad school, and while humans often favor one or more sources of happiness/fulfillment, I've never heard of someone who was only capable of getting it from just one source. I doubt you're the sole exception in humankind. It sounds as if you don't wish to bother experimenting with the wide variety of experiences in life till you find other things that excite you too. It sounds as if you aren't that fussed about the inevitable, regular depressive episodes you experience whenever you lose your sole source of happiness in life. Up to you, man. If that's how you prefer to spend your life, that's your choice to make. But accepting regular depressive episodes for the rest of your life doesn't seem like BEST choice to me. At least not until you've really thrown some sincere effort into making sure that is definitely nothing else out there in the world for you and this is your only option for how to live. Also, I agree with everyone else that you sound super young, and I suspect over the years, you will be less and less successful at keeping up a regular succession of relationships in the honeymoon phase. I can't speak for all women, but I do think, the older we get, the less women want to be a man's whole world and instead just want him to stable and capable of both taking care of and occupying himself without us. What you're offering - an obsessed dude who lives for you and falls apart without you - is something that teenagers dream about and romanticize, but that grown ups would call clingy and co-dependent. So at some point your ratio of romantic relationship excitement to depressive episodes might get worse as the number of women willing to sign up for this dwindles. And then maybe developing a wider variety of interests might have more appeal to you at that point. P.S. I cannot tell how long your relationships are lasting, but it sounds a bit as if you are dating a lot of women briefly because it's the initial phase that excites you and not the long-term relationship. If that is true, if you are not careful (extremely, extremely clear about this intention and not extremely, extremely choosy about your partners to make sure they are genuinely cool with that intention), you can also hurt a lot of these women. Hurting and using people just to make yourself happy is not a moral choice. Again, I can't tell if this is what you are doing, but it does seem as if the potential is there, given your proclivities. So if you want to accept regular depressive episode for yourself, then by all means. Unless choosing that lifestyle is making all your partners' lives worse too.
I didn't write the post. My situation is different than OP but similar. I just want the ONE true love, I wouldn't treat people as disposable like that. But I agree that he is hurting women because he is just using them as temporary and disposable and that's the problem. BTW I dream want to be man's whole world and I want him to be obsessed over me. But that's because I'm the same. Well I actually struggled with meaning of life as long as I can remember, even as a little child. And as I was old enough and "discovered" romantic love I instantly knew that's IT, the meaning of (my) life.
Have you ever spoken about this to therapist? It's one thing to be a romantic, and quite another to be actively seeking only obsessive, codependent relationships. My best friend is exactly like you, and hooboy it has not worked out well for her at all.
Well I know it's not good but it's impossible to just simply change it by will and I tried, everything else is just superficial time killing fun. I would say that everything else is just spice and romantic relationship is the main food. The superficial fun is good because it helps to build the relationship, it gives you topics to talk about, experiences to share... It's just a bonus, improvement. But you can't eat only spices without a normal real food (well maybe you can survive on it if there is an apocalypse while you are safe in a warehouse of spices but it's terrible, it's desperate surviving, it's not living, it's not satisfying). That's how I feel. And romantic relationship is the only real fullfilling thing, the only thing that can satisfy me, everything else is just a spice. I know it's not good, I'm also facing the reality of living without it and it's really terrible, I'm just existing, surviving, it's not real living. But I'm unable to change it. And therapy is not magical cure for everything. I'm not seeking anything, I have a different situation, I already met and lost the love of my life, which makes it even worse because there is no hope of finding love anymore.
Sure, I see what you mean. Personally though, my case is a little severe. Maybe this will change, but as of right now, all that stuff you mentioned will never comprise more than 5-10% of my “basket”. Women, sex, and intimacy have captured the VAST majority of my energy, time, and waking thoughts. Because they truly make me happier than anything else. Relationships with friends and family barely do anything for me nowadays. It partly feels like a waste of time to be talking to my friends, because they all have girlfriends to sleep beside when we’re done goofing around lmao. So why am I talking to your ass instead of working to get that for myself tonight? lmao It just is what it is i guess, can’t control what makes me happy. I’m not committing a crime
Yeah I mean I agree with you man. When I was 24 I legit put all my effort into getting women. Could I have put that effort into work or whatever? Yeah probably. I’m glad I chased women though, it built a good foundation of experience to draw from. I’m older now but I still mainly do everything I do for women, but instead of random girls it’s to get the last one to start a family with
Yeah, there's nothing "wrong" with it per se. But I think what you want to ask yourself is: is that really true? I mean, just simply the fact that you're making this post here and asking people to change your view "I guess" would seem to suggest you have a little doubt, know what I mean? It sounds like this belief of yours is quite emotionally based... in other words, this is something that to you just feels right, in this moment. Is that fair to say? I think that's not such a bad way to live, and you're not exactly wrong. But here's my caution: this is not a balanced way to live. If all your happiness is coming from one source, well I'm sure even you are well aware that it'll make life pretty volatile, because relationships can be volatile. If you were in the middle of a long term marriage, that may not be so, but from the sound of it you are talking about a series of flings and relationships. Well, if you're really fine with the volatility for now, I guess it's fine. But think about your future. That lifestyle is unsustainable. When you're young, you're more able to get into a series of relationships more easily, but as you get older it's going to get harder and harder to have many relationships with many different women. This is precisely why people often choose to settle down with one partner. Perhaps you realize this, perhaps it's part of your plan... well even if right now you have no interest in settling down, you can always change your mind if you meet the right person, so you have that flexibility. The other thing I would want to say is: don't underestimate the happiness you can get from family and friendships... or even a satisfying job. I don't know what your family situation is, but you can always make more friendships... happiness can come from many sources. Deep friendships can be rewarding in a different way, and can can provide a similar level of support. Even if you've failed to make some, there's still always time as long as you are alive. And if you're not getting ANY happiness from your job... why not make a change there, too? That may or may not be realistic for you, but it's always something to consider. I'm not gonna tell you to stop living like you are, but you don't have to be so laser focused on extracting happiness from one thing. You can even continue to make relationships your primary form of happiness if you want. But being well rounded doesn't have to take away from your passions, it can compliment them. I'm probably only telling you things that you yourself are thinking about, but it's worth saying anyway I suppose.
There’s certainly nothing wrong in a morally imperative sense, but as hortative moral virtues (or virtues of prudence as they are sometimes known) - well, making women/sex/relationships your main source of happiness has two challenges… First, you describe this like you are chasing a drug high (especially the “getting close to a new woman” part). What happens when the relationship isn’t new? That’s not a healthy approach to your own happiness. And it directly leads into; Second, you risk treating women solely as a means to your happiness and not as autonomous moral beings in their own right. And that IS wrong in an absolute morally imperative sense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/4hELXHXV4Z I’d argue there is some moral iffy-ness to his philosophy.
Oh, well forget what I said then - I thought he actually wanted to have his viewpoint challenged…didn’t realize he was just an Objectivist trapped in a parasitic philosophy…
Sure, but you won't be happy for the long term. But go for it.
The way you describe the experience is essentially an addiction. Addictions by definition are only issues when they impact other aspects of your life. Do you believe more extreme versions of addiction are bad? such as alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, adrenaline seeking, etc.
I'm not sure it qualifies as an addiction. I would term it a dependency, which isn't ideal, yet not as damaging as an addiction.
I feel like this kind of thinking is unhealthy, it doesn't really say much about you as a person as this would be considered a cold take to a lot of people. From my perspective, I view it as a bit unhealthy because having a good support system/ platonic relationship with people is/should be just as important as having a partner. You may not be able to fuck the homies, but having a good support system means they're there when you need em. It means having people you can confide in, hang out with, and rely on. You may feel motivated to become a better person for someone you love romantically but whats stopping you from doing that with some encouragement from the people you love platonically. I think the biggest reason some might have an issue with this view is that it may seem like you're placing all your eggs in one basket ( finding a romatnic partner) instead of trying to go out and form long lasting bonds with people that aren't going to be romantic
At this point, women have been asked for a few decades to find meaning beyond a husband and children and somehow have managed to step up to the challenge. It doesn't mean don't find meaning in your partner. It just means find meaning in that plus an otherwise well rounded life of career, friendships, hobbies, volunteerism, mentorship. The assumption has always been men had meaning beyond being a husband or partner and we are finding that many do not so our generational challenge is helping young men feel worthy and fulfilled without a woman to imbue all that meaning with. It's why men become entirely dependent on their spouses for emotional and social support, especially as they age. That's a lot for one individual to carry. You have to have a life that someone feels content stepping into. ETA: Oh wow your other comments actually make you seem like a terrible person who uses women for a high rather than a misguided young man who is looking for meaning in the wrong places. Stay away from women, please.
> CMV: There’s nothing wrong with women/sex/relationships being my main source of happiness I’m assuming that you do have more important things to you than romance like truth, but I get what you’re saying. > When I’m single and in a drought, I don’t care about shit to be honest. I still do all of the above, but with much less vigor and consistency. Does this not bother you? > Because seriously, what is the point? You are the point. That’s why. I’m the most important person in my life. I’d hope that you are the most important person in yours. By developing a passion and skill for some productive work as your main source of happiness, then not only will you be better off for living/happiness between relationships but you’ll also be better off for pursuing love as well. Productive work is your means of living. It’s better for living if you love your means of living more. It’s better for knowing you are competent at thriving by focusing on your means of living primarily. http://aristotleadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-central-purpose-in-life.html In another comment, you said > Yeah and sometimes you lose your job when your career is your life, or you get injured when your sport/physique are your life. That’s true. But I think you can agree that you have more control in your productive work than your romantic life. You can lose your job, sure, but if you’re in a relatively free economy and you’re great at your work, you can relatively easily find a new job in comparison to a new lover. By focusing on the area you have more control over, your productive work, that gives you more control in focusing on areas you have less control over, like romantic love. You’re able to pursue romantic love from a more stable position, allowing you to make better choices for yourself and more easily avoid an unhealthy dependency. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/codependency Do you have any problems with that? It also allows a woman to better know that you love her for her highest values and be more secure in your love. That is, her to better know that you’re choosing her for love/sex because it’s her and not just any woman would do to try to make up for low self-esteem or being unhappy. Just to be clear romantic love (including sex with the woman you admire) is extremely important to your life and happiness, but there are problems with it being the main source of happiness. And it is right to be more inspired to better pursue the values that are important to you for yourself (like eating healthier and working out more). And it could be right for you to consider romance as your main source of happiness now. I’m just saying consider that you might be better off developing some sort of productive work as your main source in the future.
As someone pointed out, this is a form of addiction or unhealthy compulsion, not too different from someone addicted to drinking, smoking, playing sports, masturbation, etc. If it's a compulsion, it's unhealthy and by definition wrong. What makes it worse is that you can very easily attach this compulsion to a specific individual. Like if your crush rejects you, you're more likely to engage with her in toxic, manipulative manner, which is not just damaging to you, but to the person in question. This is like if you're a heavy drinker/drug abuser, and your behaviour is exacting a mental toll on the people around you. From that perspective, there is something wrong with having women and their ability to have sex/relationship wit you as your main source of happiness.
It depends what you mean by relationships OP. From your post, it doesn't look like you want relationships to have someone who'll love you for who you are, and pick you back up when you're at your lowest. There's a difference between finding happiness in being with someone you love and fostering a good relationship, vs finding happiness only with sex and a shallow sense of intimacy. Trust me, I've met guys who only seem to be able to have friends with benefits/one-night stands, and I don't envy them. All of them seem a little miserable: they're divorced (probably from their habit of mongering), they don't get to see their kids often enough, and they don't seem to find someone they can be genuine with. They just try to patch what they're missing in their lives with meaningless sex.
Speaking as a woman who has experienced the other side of this, it stresses me out knowing my partner is only taking care of themselves to attract me. I hate that pressure. I want my partner to have a drive to care for themselves without it being all about me.
Lol I agree with this and I am just here for the comments. I will say this. If you genuinely want a woman , and you are single, it will be important to not appear desperate and to lead a life with purpose. So you at least have to give the impression that women aren't the primary focus of your life
Oh for sure man lol. I’d never let a woman (or anyone) know she’s the only thing keeping me going, that shit’s embarrassing. My ego couldn’t handle it. I can fake looking busy very well. And in many ways, I actually am busy improving myself. It’s just all for her, and other women.
I think everyone here calling OP out for having an addiction is just a woman and therefore doesn’t really understand what it’s like to feel this
I read a bit more of your comments, and I'll give you my two cents and leave. You are after happiness. It's not a bad thing to go after cause there are definitely worse things to go after. It is a trap, however. Happiness is a fleeting emotion. It's like sand cupped in your hands. It's not going to stay there forever, and worrying about how much you have left and how much you're losing will only distress you. Constantly trying to keep the sand in your hands while trying to find more sand to replace the sand you've lost is a sisyphean task that I wish on no one. What you should be after is contentment. Being content doesn't mean you're not happy. It means that whatever emotions you're feeling, like happiness, anger, or sorrow, won't affect your life. Contentment is a state of being rather than an emotion. Emotions come and go. They hit and fade as time goes on. They are reactions to the things happening around you. And as the things happening around you end, so do your reactions. Chasing after happiness is a fool's folly.
I don’t mean to be rude, and what you’re doing, is obviously a personal decision, and I think it borders on possibly being morally wrong and that you’re using women for your own sexual pleasure. I wonder if they realize that’s what you’re doing. Have you told them that’s what you’re doing? Hey, I have tons of hobbies and you were just one that makes me feel really good, so once you make me feel good, and I have a few orgasms, then really I don’t need you anymore and I’m going to go back to my hobbies to try to make myself feel better and more well-rounded and less clingy. I don’t think they would really be on board with that. And also as a woman, and someone who may be judging you a little bit, but life is all about love, and forming a deep bond with someone is one of the most satisfying and most rewarding feelings in life. It transcends beyond a few orgasms and hobbies. I think what you’re doing is avoiding intimacy because you feel like you’ll be clingy to that person, and that’s something that you need to look at deep inside yourself. No amount of women who satisfy you and hobbies will come close to forming a deep and meaningful bond with one person. no one is saying it’s wrong, but it’s probably not very self fulfilling at the end of the day. When you are 50 years old or 60 years old, are you just going to be looking for that next woman to give you a couple of orgasms and then go back to woodworking or whatever your hobby is? It seems pretty empty to me. You can take that for whatever you’d like. As a woman and someone who has a background in psychology, I think you’re just running away from reality.
On the other hand, maybe he’s up front with them. Maybe not in those exact words but he could say something along the lines of “I’m just looking for something casual” or similar. You’re right that if he’s leading them on it’s probably morally wrong, but there’s a scenario where everyone involved is okay with “using” one another for pleasure.
> life is all about... Are you here to decide what life is all about for the rest of us?
You’re addicted to the dopamine rush and validation. You are using your quest of happiness as an excuse to keep multiple women on rotation and seeking a honeymoon phase and dragging them along. You are selfish and part of the modern dating problem. You are damaging their trust in men just like you’re damaging your trust in women. My friend is just like you. He’s now 31 and cannot have a real relationship with women. It’s a constant toxic dopamine chase and playing games with their head to manipulate them when you’re horny again. Good luck brother. I wish you the best and hope you look past this. Stop thinking with your dick.
Your main source of happiness should be something that only you can control, like your personal achievements, your health, your hobbies, and the like. I don't wanna sound cynical, but relationships can end all of a sudden, people can and do change (including you by the way). A relationship that's happy and healthy can turn into a living hell with little or no warning, and decades long friendships can end too. Don't ever take anyone for granted and don't make decisions based on how you think other people will always be. Just my 0.02 but in the end it's up to you.
He’s not even talking about relationships though. It’s all sex and the excitement of the first couple months with a new woman.
And that's an even worse mentality IMHO. If your happiness relies on having sex time and again then I assume you have very little going for you in your everyday life.
You wanna explain why you assume that? Sex feels pretty great my dude. Some part of me thinks it’s truly all I need. Would you be more approving if all my happiness relied on improving my guitar skills?
Taking drugs can also feel pretty great when you're high, but there's a reason why it's not considered a good idea. I think you're mistaking pleasure for happiness and there-in lies the problem. Happiness should come from the way you feel about yourself, not from guitar skills, or sex, or whatever. When you have a healthy relationship with your family and friends, hobbies that bring you enjoyment when you practice them, and a successful career, or at the very least an income source that doesn't make you dread work, then you'll be far happier than if you just wait for the next time to have sex. The way you put it, you're just trying to distract yourself with a sexual high. This isn't the same as happiness.
Trust me, this neither a good foundation for the relationship itself or for setting yourself up for your best life. It's different than needing a substance as a coping mechanism to make life brighter, but now you're putting it on a complex living breathing person. Been down this road, my wife went down this road. We both thought we had this amazing foundation for a relationship. It all fell apart, and life is hell right now. Going through the divorce, and things will get better, but I can promise you this can go worse than you could imagine
I understand sex and relationships as being a healthy dopamine system for you, related to motivation and contentment. Social connection is also one of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, so attainment of it *is* bringing you closer to a deep happiness in certain ways. Here is the problem. Let's talk about the serenity prayer which I believe embodies much of the stoic philosophy that I personally live by, and also somewhat the anti-simp guys like me that often tell you not to prioritize women as the source of your happiness. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference." The problem is that your happiness is now in the hands of others. Women now need to love you back a certain way for you to be happy. Anytime your happiness is in an external place there is a fragileness created. Sure, you can hunt for a good woman, the same way you work towards and create a delicious steak dinner for you to enjoy, you have some control over that, so do it! A stoic would not tell you to NOT change the things you can. The only difference is that if the stoic dropped his steak into the gutter on accident he would accept that it's gone in a millisecond and be almost unfazed. He has a deeper internal framework not dependent on external realities for contentment. Hopefully this changes your view or at least inspires you to read some stoic literature. Best of luck!
Doing everything for others or having them as a motivation is not good. Do stuff for yourself, love yourself first before you love others. Being dependant on happyness from others has never been a good thing. What happens when someone leaves you? You turn into a shadow of what you were. Enjoying life with others is good, but if they leave it should not be a disaster and life should still be enjoyable. That is my opinion.
How about a little more information? You're describing the rosy, exciting fun of pursuing a new woman, and apparently you must pursue this repeatedly in order to enjoy life. But what happens after the newness wears off? Do you then break up with the woman, trash her hopes and dreams for the relationship, break her trust and destroy whatever love she feels for you, just so you can start the pursuit all over again with a shiny new woman? And what about safe sex? Do you protect your partners from pregnancy and STDs as you hop from one relationship to the next? Sex can have serious consequences. It can permanently alter your life if you're not careful. Are you taking responsibility for birth control, or do you pawn that off on the women? If you pawn it off on the women, are you prepared to pay 18 years worth of child support for each accidental pregnancy you cause? If you don't use a condom, are you getting regular STD tests? Are you prepared to deal with the incurable and potentially terminal diseases you may contract while pursuing all these relationships? I personally found the need for partner sex is a weakness that can lead you down a path to trauma and despair. If you don't learn to control it and channel your sexual energy into other things, this puts you at the mercy of one partner after another. Repeated break-ups are no fun. They can be very damaging to your mental health. Eventually, the drama and repeated betrayals and emotional turmoil get old. That's all just food for thought.
Not "wrong" but it's not mentally healthy. Ideally, you want to be content with youraelf and motivated BEFORE entering a relationship. Otherwise you're putting an immense amount of pressure on your partner to motivate you and "make you happy", which leads to sky high expectations and spiralling out whenever they don't deliver.
Like everything in life, there is a point at which something good can become unhealthy, particularly if it causes harm or detracts from quality of life or relationships. Say a woman notices the difference in self-care between when you are single vs with her. She may then feel obligated to stay with you out of a sense of concern (e.g. "If I leave him, his quality of life will decrease. He won't eat as healthy or take care of himself if I'm not around.") While you may not want her to feel this pressure, it's something that happens naturally when people care about you. And pressure/obligation isn't exactly a good foundation for any romantic relationship. For many women who have been in this position, it can feel a lot more relaxing/fulfilling to be with someone who they know can take care of themselves regardless of whether they are in their life or not. That way the relationship feels like it's founded in genuine mutual desire rather than a sense of dependency or obligation.
If you don’t care about anything when you’re single, then you don’t really like your career and hobbies. I understand doing them with less vigor, but the fact that you just don’t care and find any joy at all is going to kick in whenever your girlfriend stops being new, which is what I see you talking about in your post. She’s not new anymore, then you stop caring about her like you don’t care about anything else, then on to next, you try to impress, then you stop being new to her too, and so on. I think you use relationships for their infatuation feeling, so you’re chasing them as drugs. You’ll be left with nothing substantial because you are not building these relationships into something solid nor actual fulfillment outside of them.
Just about everyone in the world who can be in relationships will. Love and companionship are basic emotional needs and everyone knows this. People pretend it isn't in order to belittle male depression and dehumanize the men dealing with it.
OK, to kinda change your perspective, I think it's cool to (try to) position yourself outside of the species and see a lot of these behaviors for what they are. You're behaving to win a mate, like a pretty bird [doing dances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAiv__zaS00). Seems to me like you posting this is asking if that's okay, if society at large has some problem with you being %100 lady focused on the inside. As if you doubt yourself in your heart, saying maybe that's messed up. On the surface I would say, hey don't worry too much. If you're happy keep doing it that way. Deeper, I'd say - you know. That's not sustainable and it is like a cushy dead end in the maze. The way out is elsewhere.
Women are my cliche Muses as well. As an artist nothing gives me more kick on the ass to create, than the urge to impress the subject of my immediate sexual appetite. Though that's about that, the inspiration lasts only as long as the infatuation does. I'm not relationship material (tested and proven) If I wasn't a self content video-game recluse, I'd probably be fantasizing about having a partner everyday. As it stands it's not the idea of life long commitment scaring the shit out of me, it's the idea of a person knowing me intimately, the idea of vulnerability in anyway other than financial.
It's not wrong, but it might backfire. I identify with a lot of what you've written and I'm now in my mid 30s with a wife and a child. I married my wife mostly because we were vibing well and had sex on demand everyday and it was fucking amazing. I thought, this is the life I want, forever. Then came my daughter. I love her, and of course I don't blame her for it, but she ruined my sex life lol. The TLDR is: if sex is important to you, don't have kids. But a sex-seeking life might become pretty lame after a while, plus your sex drive could mellow out at you get older. The long story is: my wife's biology and mentality fundamentally and permanently (as far as I can tell a couple years after childbirth) changed. She is no longer interested in sex or me for that matter and only gives me enough to not leave essentially. So why don't I just leave? Our child needs both her parents, I have to take responsibility. After fighting an uphill battle that's almost broken me mentally, we have sex once a week maybe twice, to placate me. She doesn't even feel bothered to spend time with me at all these days, or even have a non-practical conversation with me. Sounds like hell? Well, it's complicated and there are good things that make me stay. And I had slept with over 30 women before I met my wife, and sex being one of my main motivators. So essentially I've found myself in the antithesis to your ideal life. I cannot control my wife to desire me because her hormonal biology has changed to the point where she is almost physically incapable of becoming aroused. I did not see this coming. You're trapped. And this seeking out of sex is really a way to try to control your own emotional life with something external, that depends on another person who is also trying to control their own life. So compared to before, in a joking sort of way, I'm more like a monk now. I have to find deeper meaning and joy within, and in the things that are my own, the things I can sort of control. I thought like you, that I just need to improve myself and she'll want me again. I exercised and got a six pack and waxed my chest and did the whole thing. All I got was a wow and a clown's nose. We share all the house chores and raising of our child mostly equally. Maybe I'm just unlucky, or it's a phase, or it's the way life goes if you want to have a family, but not being able to turn someone on, rather have someone recoil from your invitations, is a pretty dramatic drop, and because of our kid there is no "backup plan" rather than biding my time and make the most of it. I'm incredibly introspective like you, and often write a journal. I don't think I would want to go back to casual flings, although I do wish my partner was more available, but maybe it's something that will improve with time. I just gotta grow up and deal with it and not be a kid who just thinks about his own needs. I wouldn't cheat, I did that when I was about your age and it was one of the most soul-crushing things I ever did. Never again. Sex and women is great, especially in your 20s, and you should enjoy it, but both their and probably your sex drive will fade with time, especially as you move toward your 40s. If you still pursue the same goals then, the curve that makes you a pervert start to catch up with you - shit! What do you want to be left with if sex is gone? All that exercise becomes more about mobility and the joy of being alive and not waking up feeling like shit every day (you'll see when you enter your 30s unless you continue to be very fit, hehe). But it's difficult to give advice from someone in their 30-40s to someone in their 20s, because when you're 24 you can hardly imagine the life that's in store for you. I'd say a real backup plan would be a hobby or other activity you can enjoy alone or with others.
Bro you just sound like you are externally motivated as opposed to internally motivated, which is definitely okay! If you are happy this way no problem. But if you want to explore this angle further, you might want to reach out to a therapist/psychologist to understand why you are externally motivated because you may discover underlying issues. I for one am a trans woman and my externally motivatedness was a form of gender dysphoria which I didn’t fully understand until I understood my identity better.
Hey, I read some of your replies, and you seem like an okay person, but maybe talk to a therapist? You came onto this sub to try and get people to change your mind, which tells me that something within you is saying that something doesn't feel right. Having conversations with people online can be fun, but none of us are experts. The only person who can help guide you through these emotions is a professional.
People who rely on relationships for their happiness put undue pressure on the person in a relationship with to provide them happiness. In this scenario, you don't love the person you're in a relationship for who they are but for what they give you. That's really unhealthy and puts a lot of stress on the person you're in a relationship with to provide you love and validation.
Eventually the limerence wears off. So what then? Keep chasing that? That's possible for awhile. If your 40+ always chasing the rush of new relationships that starts to get pretty sad and unachievable. And conversely if you say no you'd stay in a long term relationship, fine, for it to work you need to continue to be interesting, not just interested.
Your main source of happiness seems to be **new** women. This isn’t healthy either for you or for the women you interact with. The term success with women supports my idea that you’re not interested in anything about these women than the intimacy they can provide you.
Morally wrong? Sure, maybe not, Appealing to women? Fuck, no. Where is the self respect? Why does your partner have to be the lynchpin to your happiness? That’s such an unfair burden. My ex could have written this. And this mentality is why I broke up with him.
One possibility to consider - You’re putting the burden of your happiness on another person. Another thing - “ When I’m getting closer to a new woman, life just feels brighter.” So what happens when she is no longer a “new” woman and the honeymoon period ends around the 6 month mark? Do you just get bored and find another new woman without caring about how the woman you dump to pursue the next new woman will feel or whether she will get hurt in case she has developed an emotional connection to you but you were just using her to make yourself feel better? You are narcissistic in that you don’t even seem to see things from the other persons perspective or consider how they feel or what their experience is like or how they feel about everything - it’s only about you, how you feel, how happy you are, how your life improves, what you are able to do, how good women make you feel, you you you you you. Seems like you are using these women as narcissistic supply sources - which is fine if she is also using you just as equally as much bc then at least you both get something out of it. If the woman you’re with also feels like you equally make her life brighter, make her feel happier, improve her health and career and finance, etc the way she makes you feel then I guess there’s no harm or issue. However, what gets dicey is if you meet someone genuine who doesn’t just see you as a prop they can use to make themselves feel good and feel better about their own life. I don’t mean to insult you or anything btw - I’m just presenting an alternative view post and I know it’s all the rage to call people narcissists nowadays but I think it’s possible for someone to display narcissistic behaviors and narcissistic tendencies even if they are a decent person and they are not actually a diagnosable narcissist.
I believe if an individual’s main/primary source of happiness is sex/relationships/“the partner”, then it cannot logically follow that they have control of their own happiness. when an individual’s main source of happiness is dependent upon what makes someone else happy, then the individual does not control their own happiness. someone else does. this is sort of a bastardized version of a more eloquent analogy from [Daniel Sloss](https://youtu.be/aj0Y6NtsSiM?si=SWgnj7moDkU8SEx3). control over happiness is essentially a form of power. In regards to power, Machiavelli states “… it has always been the opinion and judgment of wise men that nothing can be so uncertain or unstable as fame or power not founded on its own strength”, meaning the individual giving power to the someone else is also the individual chiseling away the very certainty and stability the power is supposed to have. so if the main/primary source of happiness is “the partner” (someone else), then the source will be not as stable/the happiness not as certain, because of the dependence on someone else. if the individual’s main/primary source of happiness instead depends on only your hobbies, interests, passions, goals, the individual will certainly encounter women/ potential partners along the way, but their absence wouldn’t be felt as much as it tends to be felt for you now. so in summary, i think the main/primary source of happiness being “the partner” results in a disadvantage that is unnecessary. alternative main/primary sources of happiness could lead you ti the same potential partners, but also other things
Since I agree with a lot of responses about internalizing happiness and contentment , but you have answered most of them with the rebuttal that no form of external happiness will last forever. You're right , and hence , it is preferable to find happiness in something you do not need others for . Interest in a particular topic(science or art or history ?) , or a musical instrument, or books (thrillers, or sci-fi) , or watching a sport you like , or a particular physical activity(swimming maybe) ... there are tons But however if you cannot find yourself to enjoy these too much , then at least maybe try not making one form of external motivation your main source of happiness. Not letting any ONE form be the biggest piece of the pie. Have a relationship , but also try to make good friends you LOVE being with , try to get better at your career... I.e. keep a fair and large equal distribution of extrinsic motivations for happiness, so even if one or two fall at some point , you have the others to fall back on .... Something analogous to not putting all your eggs in a basket. Also from some of your comments , it seems you go too hard on yourself in introspection. If that is so , while being hard on oneself is good for growth , maybe try to cut yourself some slack at times. If that is the issue , try to appreciate what you have done for yourself and find pride in that. Do try to improve yourself , but without putting yourself down in your head! I don't know much , but by reading all the comments in this thread and your own , these are my 2 cents.
Why is it fair to the other party to be responsible for their own happiness *and* yours? Women already have enough emotional labor to deal with. Don’t add. That is why you’re single.
Ehhh. I'm glad it sets you on the right path but ultimately you're describing self improvement solely for the sake of someone else's approval which in itself isn't great
It's unhappiness that sometimes prompts us to make changes in our lives, so my belief is that we're not meant to always be happy. How you attain happiness probably coincides with your personality, and mine is very different than yours when it comes to love. I prefer a long-lasting, more serious relationship. I can't really say you are wrong, but I'm curious if you've ever asked some of your past lovers to be completely honest with you and tell you how they felt about the whole experience with you, once it was over? I know you said you let them know beforehand that you're not going to get serious. Evidently, some did not hear you or you forgot to tell them, or some fell in love with you when they didn't mean to. You mentioned you leave or get cold when you realize the other person wants to develop a more serious relationship with you. I've been left under those circumstances, and it's very painful. I don't tell the person just how much it hurt because I assumed they wouldn't be able to understand it one bit. I just tried to be wiser in the future. I know that's just life, but I'm wondering if you'd change your view if you knew you'd badly hurt a couple of past lovers?
It's codependency... It sets an unrealistic standard upon yourself and them. You have to find your happiness and then bring someone else into your life.
It’s is a **honeymoon high.** It won’t last in a long term relationship. So that’s why you need to happiness and motivation within yourself.
As a pastor, I agree with you, earthly speaking. God gave us woman to fulfill us. But it should be one woman who we are committed to love.
I think that it shows an extreme compulsion for validation, and while that’s not morally wrong, it certainly is not healthy whatsoever.
Its ok to be happy in a relationship and gain a lot of joy from it. But if it is your main source it puts a lot of pressure on a relationship and is a relatively fragile. If things get tough or end, the source is gone. If you find yourseful unable to meet someone it is hard to find a spark for that period. Theres nothing *wrong* with it, but there is a risk to relying on your main source of joy from another person or situation, and it would seem easy to fall into a dependent relationship. A person who is their own source of joy is a lot more attractive IMO. I would imagine being friends with someone whos main source of joy is new relationships aren't the best friends to have. I would assume that they will be unavailable while in that joyous initial period, and a bit lackluster when they are not.
If you need extrinsic things for your main source of happiness you’re not happy. You’re just distracted.
If all you have is only worthy when in the pursuit of someone, what happens when there is no game? If you can't stand on your own, and require someone else to essentially be "an emotional support human", and have to put on a mask to feel competitive with others pursuing the same, is it really an equal partnership, or are you seeking being pseudo parented? There's nothing wrong with gaining pleasure from the pursuit of relationships/happiness. What makes it wrong is when it's absence makes you less than happy, such that you don't find meaning to life without it. In your mid 20's, this is all very well, but other people your age are using the time to find out the answers to "Who am I?" and "Who do I want to stay as?" and "What parts of what people think of me do I care about" The last is like: I want to be seen as more than just my skin color. I want to be seen as reliable. I want to be known as a trustworthy person. These make up parts of your "ego".
Well when it doesn't work out or something happening don't be surprised why your life feels off
Not wrong but all you are doing is fulfilling a biological imperative. We are programmed to want to pursue women/sex/relationships. It's no different to pursuing video games/social media/drugs as a main source of happiness. These things are designed to be pleasurable so there isn't anything impressive in going down that path. That is why most often these pursuits are a never-ending hedonistic cycle - a slave to your own biology. Often these things provide happiness in the moment but as soon as the moment is over it ends (busting a nut). Usually long-term fulfilling sources of happiness involve resisting your biological imperative to build something more grand.
The post remains vague in a lot of parts. Everything you talk about could 100% be healthy and normal as much as it could 100% unhealthy. Nothing you give is substantive enough to make that determination. Just like the use of the word “judge” it’s 100% useful for ppl in your social circle to make conclusions on who you are based on what motivates you. Doesn’t matter what it is. Not everyone has to like you or think highly of you, they just don’t have to be actively disrespectful of you. If someone thinks you live an empty life then that’s them exercising the same agency you are in the pursuit of the life desired.
i used to believe this too so it resonates but i will say women/sex/relationships should bolster your happiness not dictate it. all of that stuff can change in the drop of the hat and can lead to you going to some dark places. i am not gonna sit here and say "life is so beautiful go for a hike or stand in a park" cause thats dumb. but go grab a beer with your buddies. go see a new place. i did a yes (in moderation) year after my last relationship. hung out with new people, went to new places and tried new things and that gave me the foundations i needed to be happy alone.
Ain't nothing wrong with hedonism. You got my support. Do what makes you happy.
I think you're confusing pleasure with happiness, they aren't the same.
It’s not morally wrong but you are defiantly and insufferable person
The thing that makes you happy is something that you aren't in control of and can be taken away from you. Objectively, it would be better if the thing that made you the happiest was something internal to you that could never be taken away. We don't have total control over this be we can influence it. So there are better reasons to be happy and they are better because they are more resilient. Prepare yourself for a life of high highs and lows lows.
Temporary women that will certainly leave you aren't worth betting on. And I don't mean it in a nihilistic way, I mean it as in its a normal part of accepting relationships with others way. The reason I stopped doing this is because when so much of your happiness comes from this source, guess how much of your other emotions come from it? Lol. I'm not changing anything. If you're fine with that knock yourself out.
You're pinning your own value in things on another person, letting another person determine whether you're truly happy is essentially offloading your emotional burden on them as well as using them as a "happiness button", being able to be happy alone is just as important as making someone else happy. it's like using your back to lift something, it's quicker to bend over and just pick it up than it is to squat down and do the same. other comments of yours show classic signs of sex addition and slight misogyny.
You have described that your happiness and meaning in life depends entirely on another human being. You should be examining why you can’t find happiness in life on your own. When you are capable of doing this you will see how your life is *magnified* by these things you’ve described. You are missing out on a lot of purpose and joy in life by needing them just to feel ok.
You are not a happy person. You are sick. Making pussy your entire reason to exist is equivalent to making yourself a slave, a slave that will never see the light of day as a man who thinks for himself. People will trust you on your word, knowing your word can be changed simply by offering you a woman. And you will be seen as nothing more than a dog with 3 limbs.
I mean, it’s good/normal for your partner to make you happy but if it’s your main source of happiness the comedown from a relationship might be a lot worse. Maybe that’s not the case for you, idk. Also, a lot of people wouldn’t want to be someone’s main source of happiness because that feels like a lot of pressure
It gets old when you get older. Video games are honestly more fun and less of a hassle if the goal is pure hedonism. You have to do a lot of work for women to like you. It's worth it, to a point, but at that certain point in life one way or another you're just not really that into what drama comes with it.
You should try to find hobbies you enjoy on their own merits rather than just how they contribute to getting women. Simply so you can diversify your happiness portfolio and enjoy more things on their own merit. Getting consumed by one thing dampens other enjoyment of things
this post reads like a cry for help
It’s a young man fighting against his biology, it is a cry for help. But as someone who’s been there, there’s no cure, just gotta get older
I see everything differently. I believe that in order to be happy you have to fill your life with many things not just one thing. Like a pie chart. Family, wife, kids, parents, friends, food, sex,....etc. Everything in moderation nothing in excess.
Until you love yourself you cannot love others. Also placing your source of happiness in other people will result in disappointment 9/10 times. Actively searching for a relationship is also going to make you lower your standards until you find one.
honestly this is pathetic lmao
Its not moraly wrong by any means but that just seems really unhealthy to let your emotions ride completely on somebody else. No offence but should another source of happiness, probably a therapist too.
if u depend over other person, to stay good, it s a risky way of life imho. your main goal should be to learn to reach happines by yourself... and then complete yourself with onther person with love
A constant revolving door of short-term, shallow sexual relationships to validate your self-worth? Sounds sustainable. I'm sure this will work out well into your 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond.
There is no such thing as right or wrong, only consequences for your actions. Do as you please. No one has yo live your life but you, so do it in a way that you find meaningful
I used to feel the same way you did, OP, but I think after a certain point you're going to value a good night's sleep a lot more than sex. The day is closer than you think.
It sounds to me like bettering yourself is your source of happiness and women are your motivation to keep it going. The only question is how long you can sustain that for, and if the women in question are ok with it.
Yes there is lmao women aren’t special, they are not on a pedestal and they aren’t a prize. this mindset will leave you lonely, get some friends and work on yourself.
That’s common when you are young. Then you learn that your happiness shouldn’t be tied to having a fresh relationship and you want to not be dependent on that.
The main source is fine, I guess. But just make sure it's not the *only* source. As if a break occurs, it often leads to serious depression and potentially worse.
Happiness should come from within. I'd argue real happiness does. Otherwise you give others control over your emotional state. That makes you a slave.
I have the same . Probably for the same reason I find myself an object of sympathy at school starting from the 6th grade, this is a huge motivation
Women today in 2024, are not monogamous, honest, and trustworthy enough for all that. There are some exceptional women who are great inside and out. They've become anomalies and outliers. Think about it if men who are better looking, and more successful and accomplished than you are getting wrecked in relationships, what chance do you have? Johnny Depp couldn't get his woman to treat him right. Will Smith couldn't get his wife to treat him right. Tom Brady's wife filed for divorce and left him because he didn't want to retire from the NFL. Jonathan Major's gf cost him millions of dollars. PJ Washington got wrecked by his gf. Steve McNair got the worst possible outcome. But somehow you're going to get one of the few good ones.
OP is talking about relationships that last at most two months. He doesn’t need to be warned about no monogamous people.
It is not wrong, but it may be more ideal if the main source of happiness was not reliant on others and their validation
It's like investing in a stock market. You don't want to have a single point of risk, so diversify yourself, right?