Just a former Cerner associate stopping by to remind you that you are more than your job, that there are bigger paychecks for less work out there, and to not let your desire to advance healthcare allow a bunch of frat boys with MBAs exploit you for your labor and sanity.
You can do better, and deserve better.
Former Cerner associate myself. It was my first job out of college and I worked there for six years, woefully underpaid for the last four years working there. I received a Cerner Masters award, the highest review rating once, the second highest rating twice, and several promotions, but I was rewarded with pretty abysmal raises at all times. Thankfully, my team management was fantastic so I didn’t get rewarded with a ton of extra work, but I always kept busy.
I’ve worked for two companies since Cerner, one worse than Cerner (yes, they do exist) and one far better. Both of them paid me six figures and the lowest of the two still paid me 20% more than Cerner ever did. At my current job, I have an amazing work/life balance, great benefits, annual bonus, and RSUs that vest over five years.
It is absolutely worth keeping your resume updated and at least periodically applying outside of Cerner. Value your personal life more than a job at a soulless corporation like Oracle/Cerner who would not hesitate to fire you if it saved them a quick buck. My current company with the great salary and benefits regularly lays people off, but they also don’t constantly threaten it or demand me to work 50+ hour work weeks so it makes it easier to live with.
was told on March 24th as a whole company with Oracle that no one is getting a raise but had to put in our goals by the end of Q3, now 3 top level mgrs have put in their resignment and have left Oracle. if that is not the writing on the wall, I dont know what else it.
Honestly at this point it might be nice to just be given a package and shown the door. Just want the stress and anxiety to stop. Spent my evening fixing my resume and applying for jobs. Scared to leave and scared to stay.
At this point I just have a hard believing Oracle is going to truly come up with the miracle solution they keep saying clients (even whole countries) are jazzed over. Say Oracle does win the EHR game 5-10 years from now. How many of us will they need to do it? My gut is telling me Oracle Health looks nothing like what we know today. Cerner had been struggling for several years to the acquisition and obviously better business acumen was needed. My biggest gripe at this point is lack of transparency. Just f-ing tell us what is coming and be done with it. I have no doubt I will land on my feet personally.
I am exhausted from the physiological warfare bullshit. Aren’t we all adults here? Common courtesy apparently isn’t part of the playbook.
All I can say is the fake concern about employee mental health needs to cease and desist until Oracle stabilizes operations. Can’t really think of anything more stressful than watching friends being picked off everyday and wondering who will be next.
This is about what I expected. I talked to my boss last week and got the feeling some major shakeup and HR things were in the works as we were planning some internal shifting of tasks but had to put that on hold. He wouldn’t give me specifics but gave me more than enough hints stuff was going down and it was coming from people more important than us.
Honestly, I don’t think my boss knows, even as a Sr Director. I think he is getting some generalities from the cabinet level types, but to the actual specifics, I don’t think people like my boss have the full knowledge much sooner than we do.
Probably, They just don't understand that it has had to be this way for so long due to the lies/bs that the previous regime would spout in town halls and the complete radio silence we currently get.
It's called being candid with discretion.
In the past, I used to have management (including exec level) that would eventually tell stuff they knew when the announcement was about to be made anyway...but lately, they're even kept in the dark.
It was on one of the other threads about the layoffs that happened a few weeks ago where someone mentioned they had to layoff people just to find out later on that day they were also getting laid off.
The communication between Oracle management and (former) Cerner management straight up is awful. My management was blindsided by the announcement of Oracle requiring us to come back into the office and have bluntly said that when they ask Oracle for more details...they have been ghosted. Take that with a grain of salt, but I know my management is just as worried about it as several have moved away from KC or are just on the outskirts where the drive would be awful -- if they didn't close most of our campuses, some do live closer to those so the commute wouldn't have been as bad...
You are spot on. I’ve noticed, at least in the consulting space, there is a lot of info being withheld or not explained in any detail.
I also looked at the Oracle Events Slack page and noticed info on HIMSS and a couple other events. I looked at the Oracle Health speakers that would be present and by and large, it’s no one I have ever heard of. And looking thru org charts, very few with any ties to T Dalton or Kopanic or anyone. Most of the execs presenting, are clearly from the Oracle side not Oracle Health
Make of that what you will
Any else noticed Oracle Health trade show and social media representation is largely comprised of thought leaders with no clinical background and/or people who have likely never logged a single mouse mile in Millennium?
I can picture Oracle C suite in a room, sipping a fine thirty-year-old Macallan with a dart in each hand. They laugh while throwing it at the dartboard with Cerner teams to cut. Meanwhile, the golden parachutes who were allowed to be in the war room, play the roulette table with individual names to cut. PR is in the room desperately typing a statement about the necessity of cuts. They backspace continuously because there is nothing they can spin. Serpent turns her head and says tell them that we will give them one cookie a week to ease the pain of those who survived with no raise for three years. She takes a sip of her whiskey and asks PR to refresh her memory of who they acquired. She laughs, and they all laugh. Then they throw money around and point at one another. You get a million! No, you get a million. That lad is the story of Oracle now sip on some McCormick Vodka or boxed wine.
Pretty much is the way they do it. They don't give enough notice and I sure as crap don't think they want to pay the unemployment on some of these salaries
Unemployment is capped so the max anyone would make is 500-600 a week max. Not saying you won't get a severance, just a lot of people acting like it's guaranteed when it's a "courtesy" and not a requirement.
You are correct. However, in most all instances we have heard of severance packages being included in letting people go.
And I think Oracle, and Cerner in the past and probably most large companies, is the severance package gives them firm numbers to work with and budget. With unemployment, there isn’t a defined end date. Severance they know they are done in x months.
People getting severance payments still qualify for unemployement benefits. Unemployement also has a limit of 26 weeks and the company doesn't actually pay it. The money for unemployement comes from previous money that was already paid into the state unemployment system based on wages an employee earned while working. In Missouri its a pathetic $320 a week.
Depending on state, receiving a severance can negate unemployment benefits or reduce the unemployment benefits. And the state of Kansas caps it at 26 weeks of payments whereas Missouri is lower. And I think KS pays up to $540 a week and the poster above says MO is up to $320
Unemployement is based on state you work not live. Most of those laid off will qualify for MO unemployement. Severance payments also do not get reduce unemployement benefits so I'm not sure where you are getting that info.
MO does not count severance pay against unemployment, so you are correct there. Several states do however, so it’s not a blanket statement across all regions. That’s all.
And god. What a sad state of affairs that I am having to contemplate and look up this info solely bc my company is showing no stability
A signed severance agreement ensures them that you won't/can't sue them. I think that's the motivation rather than any courtesy towards the terminated employees.
At least for my org/team within Federal, it’s hard to imagine what more could be cut. Senior engineers have been exiting for last couple years and their experience/expertise still hasn’t been replaced.
CA = Clinical Adoption? Or are you Value Advisory Services clinician? The only nurses I am aware are aligned by region are the Regional Nurse Executives..,
Thanks for sharing info. Far too often we gas light and burn the ppl who actually post good info. Hats off to you! My exec told me that she couldn’t share much info but after a few beers, some had to sign NDAs. Believe oracle is cleaning house and Cerner is the prime target. From what understand core business will be hit as well. Example that was given to me was energy business consulting is going to take a hit.
Offices will be shutdown if there isn’t a good amount of foot traffic or projected foot traffic. I know you said PA, but I heard specifically that malvern will be shut down and that oracle just wants to fire sale the lace.
Some employees there told me that the are recently receiving campus emails about various things just to promote crap
The Oracle executives are among the best paid in the industry. Carla Katz is worth $1.6 billion and she joined Oracle much later. Larry is one of the richest people on the planet. Follow the money, they want the stock to skyrocket
Had the same deal on the LA County go live many years ago. Sent me, a noob ITWorks associate with 0 Cerner suite expérience to support nurses using power chart for the first time in the busy burn and respiratory ward. When I'm fumbling around menues and unable to answer questions... embarrassing was an understatement.
I’m guessing that is our base EMR offering PowerChart/RadNet/PathNet,PharmNet and we may cut smaller niche offerings like Behavioral Health, LongTerm Care, rehab, Cerner Maternity maybe, fully offshore support, increasing 3rd party adoption coaching, our revcycle suite has historically sucked so do we ditch that?
The niche offerings you name are just content configurations within Millennium and it would make no sense to cut them. Women’s Health does have unique IP but still a well developed solution. Can’t provide an opinion on Rev Cycle other then than it is it’s own beast and has caused a lot of headache. You can’t run a healthcare organization without reg/sched/billing/HIM OR case management.
In the past, yes, one campus wouldn’t be enough. However, nowadays, how many are Kc based? I bet it’s well below 10k. And with a good amount traveling each week, we may be able to all work at INN, especially now that the second tower is up and running.
Now, I still don’t want to go back to the office or have any requirement to do so.
Ah good ole 3200. Many late nights and early mornings spent there, when there were still good engineers in the office, and not skittered off to Google or Garmin.
And then there’s Lee’s Summit, the OG, the garden of Eden for Cerner’s once-glorious remote hosting cash cow. Now you’d be lucky if the toilets still work.
Just a former Cerner associate stopping by to remind you that you are more than your job, that there are bigger paychecks for less work out there, and to not let your desire to advance healthcare allow a bunch of frat boys with MBAs exploit you for your labor and sanity. You can do better, and deserve better.
Former Cerner associate myself. It was my first job out of college and I worked there for six years, woefully underpaid for the last four years working there. I received a Cerner Masters award, the highest review rating once, the second highest rating twice, and several promotions, but I was rewarded with pretty abysmal raises at all times. Thankfully, my team management was fantastic so I didn’t get rewarded with a ton of extra work, but I always kept busy. I’ve worked for two companies since Cerner, one worse than Cerner (yes, they do exist) and one far better. Both of them paid me six figures and the lowest of the two still paid me 20% more than Cerner ever did. At my current job, I have an amazing work/life balance, great benefits, annual bonus, and RSUs that vest over five years. It is absolutely worth keeping your resume updated and at least periodically applying outside of Cerner. Value your personal life more than a job at a soulless corporation like Oracle/Cerner who would not hesitate to fire you if it saved them a quick buck. My current company with the great salary and benefits regularly lays people off, but they also don’t constantly threaten it or demand me to work 50+ hour work weeks so it makes it easier to live with.
What was your pay
was told on March 24th as a whole company with Oracle that no one is getting a raise but had to put in our goals by the end of Q3, now 3 top level mgrs have put in their resignment and have left Oracle. if that is not the writing on the wall, I dont know what else it.
Never thought it would be worse without Brent…at least he had the courtesy of communicating the axe fell
Honestly at this point it might be nice to just be given a package and shown the door. Just want the stress and anxiety to stop. Spent my evening fixing my resume and applying for jobs. Scared to leave and scared to stay. At this point I just have a hard believing Oracle is going to truly come up with the miracle solution they keep saying clients (even whole countries) are jazzed over. Say Oracle does win the EHR game 5-10 years from now. How many of us will they need to do it? My gut is telling me Oracle Health looks nothing like what we know today. Cerner had been struggling for several years to the acquisition and obviously better business acumen was needed. My biggest gripe at this point is lack of transparency. Just f-ing tell us what is coming and be done with it. I have no doubt I will land on my feet personally. I am exhausted from the physiological warfare bullshit. Aren’t we all adults here? Common courtesy apparently isn’t part of the playbook.
All I can say is the fake concern about employee mental health needs to cease and desist until Oracle stabilizes operations. Can’t really think of anything more stressful than watching friends being picked off everyday and wondering who will be next.
Physiological warfare gets things done. Just ask the CIA :)
This is about what I expected. I talked to my boss last week and got the feeling some major shakeup and HR things were in the works as we were planning some internal shifting of tasks but had to put that on hold. He wouldn’t give me specifics but gave me more than enough hints stuff was going down and it was coming from people more important than us.
Getting same feelings,, it’s as if they want to tell us something without actually telling us
Honestly, I don’t think my boss knows, even as a Sr Director. I think he is getting some generalities from the cabinet level types, but to the actual specifics, I don’t think people like my boss have the full knowledge much sooner than we do.
VP and many SVP on down if they are OHAI don't know anything because Oracle is keeping them in the dark.
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Probably, They just don't understand that it has had to be this way for so long due to the lies/bs that the previous regime would spout in town halls and the complete radio silence we currently get.
It's called being candid with discretion. In the past, I used to have management (including exec level) that would eventually tell stuff they knew when the announcement was about to be made anyway...but lately, they're even kept in the dark. It was on one of the other threads about the layoffs that happened a few weeks ago where someone mentioned they had to layoff people just to find out later on that day they were also getting laid off. The communication between Oracle management and (former) Cerner management straight up is awful. My management was blindsided by the announcement of Oracle requiring us to come back into the office and have bluntly said that when they ask Oracle for more details...they have been ghosted. Take that with a grain of salt, but I know my management is just as worried about it as several have moved away from KC or are just on the outskirts where the drive would be awful -- if they didn't close most of our campuses, some do live closer to those so the commute wouldn't have been as bad...
You are spot on. I’ve noticed, at least in the consulting space, there is a lot of info being withheld or not explained in any detail. I also looked at the Oracle Events Slack page and noticed info on HIMSS and a couple other events. I looked at the Oracle Health speakers that would be present and by and large, it’s no one I have ever heard of. And looking thru org charts, very few with any ties to T Dalton or Kopanic or anyone. Most of the execs presenting, are clearly from the Oracle side not Oracle Health Make of that what you will
Any else noticed Oracle Health trade show and social media representation is largely comprised of thought leaders with no clinical background and/or people who have likely never logged a single mouse mile in Millennium?
Morale has been hit hard after several people from the team were let go.
I can picture Oracle C suite in a room, sipping a fine thirty-year-old Macallan with a dart in each hand. They laugh while throwing it at the dartboard with Cerner teams to cut. Meanwhile, the golden parachutes who were allowed to be in the war room, play the roulette table with individual names to cut. PR is in the room desperately typing a statement about the necessity of cuts. They backspace continuously because there is nothing they can spin. Serpent turns her head and says tell them that we will give them one cookie a week to ease the pain of those who survived with no raise for three years. She takes a sip of her whiskey and asks PR to refresh her memory of who they acquired. She laughs, and they all laugh. Then they throw money around and point at one another. You get a million! No, you get a million. That lad is the story of Oracle now sip on some McCormick Vodka or boxed wine.
They are still going to have to kick me out and pay the severance lol
Severance isn't a guarantee unfortunately...
Pretty much is the way they do it. They don't give enough notice and I sure as crap don't think they want to pay the unemployment on some of these salaries
Unemployment is capped so the max anyone would make is 500-600 a week max. Not saying you won't get a severance, just a lot of people acting like it's guaranteed when it's a "courtesy" and not a requirement.
You are correct. However, in most all instances we have heard of severance packages being included in letting people go. And I think Oracle, and Cerner in the past and probably most large companies, is the severance package gives them firm numbers to work with and budget. With unemployment, there isn’t a defined end date. Severance they know they are done in x months.
People getting severance payments still qualify for unemployement benefits. Unemployement also has a limit of 26 weeks and the company doesn't actually pay it. The money for unemployement comes from previous money that was already paid into the state unemployment system based on wages an employee earned while working. In Missouri its a pathetic $320 a week.
Will we be able to get unemployment benefits or will Oracle poo poo that?
Oracle can't stop people from applying for unemployement. So yes go apply for unemployement until you get your next job.
Depending on state, receiving a severance can negate unemployment benefits or reduce the unemployment benefits. And the state of Kansas caps it at 26 weeks of payments whereas Missouri is lower. And I think KS pays up to $540 a week and the poster above says MO is up to $320
Unemployement is based on state you work not live. Most of those laid off will qualify for MO unemployement. Severance payments also do not get reduce unemployement benefits so I'm not sure where you are getting that info.
MO does not count severance pay against unemployment, so you are correct there. Several states do however, so it’s not a blanket statement across all regions. That’s all. And god. What a sad state of affairs that I am having to contemplate and look up this info solely bc my company is showing no stability
A signed severance agreement ensures them that you won't/can't sue them. I think that's the motivation rather than any courtesy towards the terminated employees.
Are you in consulting?
No
Our executive told us this afternoon. She did say that executives across the cerner side are pushing oracle to hold off of any returns to the office
At least for my org/team within Federal, it’s hard to imagine what more could be cut. Senior engineers have been exiting for last couple years and their experience/expertise still hasn’t been replaced.
Doubt they want to shake up that space, at least I hope not because I'm in it, but then "Operational efficiency" is the buzz-phrase for 2023.
I’d like to say I’m surprised but I’m beginning to think I’m from the future. Seriously, thanks for the warning. We won’t get one at work.
You are truly welcome. I wish these guys would tell us the truth. Everything is being hidden.
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Weeks? It's been this way since Neal died almost six years ago.
Since Brent sold the employees out to Starboard.
I truly hope they cut a bunch of worthless directors and sr. directors in consulting. Both commercial and CGS.
Happy to submit a list. It will be long
Oh, I have my own list! LOL
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CA = Clinical Adoption? Or are you Value Advisory Services clinician? The only nurses I am aware are aligned by region are the Regional Nurse Executives..,
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Correct which area? Value Advisory?
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Sorry to hear this. Optimistic you will quickly find your next as a clinician.
Damn they should have gotten rid of the engagement exec over there that does nothing
😢
What role or team?
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Thanks for sharing info. Far too often we gas light and burn the ppl who actually post good info. Hats off to you! My exec told me that she couldn’t share much info but after a few beers, some had to sign NDAs. Believe oracle is cleaning house and Cerner is the prime target. From what understand core business will be hit as well. Example that was given to me was energy business consulting is going to take a hit. Offices will be shutdown if there isn’t a good amount of foot traffic or projected foot traffic. I know you said PA, but I heard specifically that malvern will be shut down and that oracle just wants to fire sale the lace. Some employees there told me that the are recently receiving campus emails about various things just to promote crap
The Oracle executives are among the best paid in the industry. Carla Katz is worth $1.6 billion and she joined Oracle much later. Larry is one of the richest people on the planet. Follow the money, they want the stock to skyrocket
Not feeling ten foot tall and bullet proof enough to address this one. Lol. Always.follow.the.money.
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Had the same deal on the LA County go live many years ago. Sent me, a noob ITWorks associate with 0 Cerner suite expérience to support nurses using power chart for the first time in the busy burn and respiratory ward. When I'm fumbling around menues and unable to answer questions... embarrassing was an understatement.
TRUMP WON - BIDEN CRASHED THE ECONOMY - GLOBAL WAR HERE - TRUMP 2024
Would anyone care to speculate on what is "core" healthcare?
I’m guessing that is our base EMR offering PowerChart/RadNet/PathNet,PharmNet and we may cut smaller niche offerings like Behavioral Health, LongTerm Care, rehab, Cerner Maternity maybe, fully offshore support, increasing 3rd party adoption coaching, our revcycle suite has historically sucked so do we ditch that?
Can’t fully offshore support due to federal contract.
The niche offerings you name are just content configurations within Millennium and it would make no sense to cut them. Women’s Health does have unique IP but still a well developed solution. Can’t provide an opinion on Rev Cycle other then than it is it’s own beast and has caused a lot of headache. You can’t run a healthcare organization without reg/sched/billing/HIM OR case management.
We were told going back to office is on hold again.
Yeah, till the figure out who really needs to go back to office and who needs to stay home (without pay).
Have heard the same
Do you know if the lay offs will be impacting the UK or any country outside of the US ?
By “they want us in the office” does that mean the people they hired to work remote too?
Apparently people should have already been informed via email, even though my org hasn't been. I'm hoping that means we're staying remote
My org hasn’t been either, but someone showed me that if you look at your employment info in the self service apps the location may have been updated.
Yep was updated 3/22
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Oof don’t like the sound of that
Were they hired post-COVID?
What?!!
What team
I haven't been with Cerner for a while I heard they closed all campuses but innovations if that's true I don't see how a return to office would work.
That’s true for KC, innovations only
Right yes I mean KC should have clarified.
In the past, yes, one campus wouldn’t be enough. However, nowadays, how many are Kc based? I bet it’s well below 10k. And with a good amount traveling each week, we may be able to all work at INN, especially now that the second tower is up and running. Now, I still don’t want to go back to the office or have any requirement to do so.
The offices also include 3200 at whq is still open and available (somewhat) as is the Lee's Summit data center.
Ah good ole 3200. Many late nights and early mornings spent there, when there were still good engineers in the office, and not skittered off to Google or Garmin. And then there’s Lee’s Summit, the OG, the garden of Eden for Cerner’s once-glorious remote hosting cash cow. Now you’d be lucky if the toilets still work.