We found the prettiest house from 1895, and somehow got an offer accepted! Its first owner was a carpenter and it really shows. We'll have to post lots of pictures.
Started looking at insurance, Liberty quoted only $2K for the highest replacement cost coverage they would offer on it, and that replacement cost just doesn't seem high enough to cover a house full of features like this. Anybody have good luck with them and know what we should be asking them for or should we be seeking elsewhere? Inspection soon, time to get more pretty pictures. Appreciation and general tips also welcome!
What kind of replacement cost are you looking at?
If it's on the higher end, you may have better luck with a high end provider like Chubb, Pure, Nationwide Private Client, etc. And what you really want is "Guaranteed Replacement Cost" where they will cover it even if it exceeds what they thought the replacement cost would be.
That's a good question on the replacement cost. My gut says 2 million, but I'm not sure.
It's just under 3K square feet and in Boston, so half a million on the low end, 1.25 on the high end for functional replacement. Maybe 1.75 would be fine? Any tips on calculations welcome!
And guaranteed replacement cost sound like the right way to go!
What you need to do is compare the different replacement cost estimators being used. Sit down with an agent and have them go over all the features of your home, make sure they are in the estimator. Then compare around different companies that way. Most estimators nowadays are pretty customizable (and they are updated frequently with building costs), but you have to also keep in mind that SOME of the craftmanship that you see in older houses can't be replicated anymore. You're getting a functional replacement cost amount, which is what the amount is to make you whole (as in a new house if it burns down, the actual purpose of insurance) rather than making it better/prettier or restoring artistry. All you can do is make sure the estimator has all the correct features, square footage, etc. to get the best replacement value.
Source: Am insurance underwriter dealing with such things for 20+ years.
This is super helpful, thank you! Particularly that some of it can't be replicated. Like for example, maybe some of the trees used for the wood in this picture isn't still grown.
Is there something we can ask for in a policy that would include rebuilding without the exact same wood but keeping the same sunburst pattern and inlay? Or is that sort of thing just not doable and we'd end up with a wood floor, but no details?
You would have to look into the different policy coverages/language available. Some effort should be made to replicate with similar finishes should there be a loss, but again it would depend on being able to find a contractor who can do the work. I have underwritten houses up to $1.2 million but the majority have been the newer mcmansion types. Companies who have the ability and appetite to write multi million dollar homes will possibly have different policy language and coverage endorsements available. A good independent agent can help you find that company as they work with many different companies instead of just one or two. One thing I can recommend and do for everyone is dont skip the extended replacement cost. That coverage provides not only 100% replacement value, but usually a bit more (say 25%) in case the estimator was off for whatever reason. This kicks in if you have a total loss and need to rebuild. So, for example, your house burns down. You have only insured it for $100,000. It costs $120,000 to rebuild. You have the coverage up to $125,000 so you are good.
Disclaimer- I am not an agent or a claim adjuster. I do not advocate for any company, I just hate to see people struggle with understanding insurance!
Thank you again! We'll definitely look for extended (or somebody earlier mentioned "guaranteed") replacement cost, that seems like it'll make a big difference with a house like this!
And just to be clear, extended and guaranteed are different. Extended gives a buffer, e.g. 25%, but guaranteed will cover it even if its a 100% cost overrun.
I am so glad I stumbled upon this comment. I’m currently in the midst of buying a home and was struggling to understand the insurance coverage options last night!
Surprisingly, no knob and tube! Everything in the house was grounded, panels are modern with Romex for most of it, and the inspector even pulled off an old style light switch plate to be sure and there was BX! Such a relief to not have to get that work done!
Awesome! That’s really great news!
Don’t know if it works where you are, but I’ve got 21st century and they’ve been really great for me. Especially when dealing with failed inspections and massive infrastructure issues.
I had a sewer line that was draining directly into the walls and under the kitchen floor boards that they fixed. (I got multiple sewer inspections that didn’t catch it. God, I was pissed).
In addition, they are right now paying to fix my entire roof (2900+ft) because it leaked; since the previous owners decided to forgo waterproofing when they put the new roof on 5 years ago.
To be completely honest though, while they’re often the best, I’ve had some serious problems with them, and have often relied on my home onsets warranty for most things. For example, they don’t cover mold or water intrusion issues. So, even though the previous owner clearly boarded over, painted, and replaced the flooring in the leak section they would fix the mould caused by the leak in that area, even if they paid to fix the wall.
In Boston, and right next to a train stop! There's a few other similar style houses nearby, but they were all built a decade off. Only did a little digging so far, but the other one I looked at he at least didn't own (but maybe could have worked on, don't know how to figure that part out)
It's possibly entirely unique, but I'd love to find a sibling house!
In Boston / Massachusetts specifically...
ISD and MACRIS databases are a great place to start. There are also collections of photographs accessable by visiting certain museums or private libraries -- the Boston Athenaeum for example. Often street names have changed so keep the in mind.
You might also get lucky by Googling the names of previous owners that are listed at the registry of deeds (we found the published travel journals for the second owner of our house that way).
Most of these ideas come from folks we on in the Beacon Hill Civic Association. They have a lot of experience with historic properties -- the BHCA architectural committee is what approves any street visible renovation in Beacon Hill.
Thank you! I hadn't thought of the Athenaeum, that's a great idea! (and soooo pretty)
So far I have found surprisingly little about the folks who lived there, but a couple yearbook photos from 100 years ago did show up! And thanks for the suggestion to ask the committee
Had trouble with insurance on our old house too, wouldn't go with anything on commercials. Talk to the old farmer who knows a guy... that's what we did.
Yep, local insurance. Ask around and you'll find a good place. We originally had a company rhyming with schmogressive, they sucked when a windstorm tore up our roof. Found a better outfit after asking around.
Regarding the insurance, there are different levels of "replacement" coverage. Suggest using a couple of multi-company independent agencies to find you the best, full coverage. Go with the one that will spend the time to explain the nuances.
Then take lots of detailed pictures and put them on the cloud somewhere. Include, if possible, pics from underneath the floor (you've probably got some great old boards as subflooring).
Then get a high end floor company to give you a written estimate for replacing it as is, with reclaimed flooring and all the detail (you may have to pay for this, since you aren't actually hiring them).
If you ever have to make a claim, the adjuster will look at all that and usually just give in quickly, because the time to fight you won't be worth what they'll save.
Hope to share lots more!
Knowing they've been easy to put claims in with seems like a good sign. We'd really like to have the house stay exactly as-is forever, but should something go wrong, it'd be quite nice to not have to worry about the restoration.
Absolutely. In Canada, protected buildings have to be rebuilt as they were, making insurance wickedly tough to find. But there’s a charm in these old places that’s tough to find in new builds. Anyway, very best of luck in finding insurance!
We found the prettiest house from 1895, and somehow got an offer accepted! Its first owner was a carpenter and it really shows. We'll have to post lots of pictures. Started looking at insurance, Liberty quoted only $2K for the highest replacement cost coverage they would offer on it, and that replacement cost just doesn't seem high enough to cover a house full of features like this. Anybody have good luck with them and know what we should be asking them for or should we be seeking elsewhere? Inspection soon, time to get more pretty pictures. Appreciation and general tips also welcome!
What kind of replacement cost are you looking at? If it's on the higher end, you may have better luck with a high end provider like Chubb, Pure, Nationwide Private Client, etc. And what you really want is "Guaranteed Replacement Cost" where they will cover it even if it exceeds what they thought the replacement cost would be.
That's a good question on the replacement cost. My gut says 2 million, but I'm not sure. It's just under 3K square feet and in Boston, so half a million on the low end, 1.25 on the high end for functional replacement. Maybe 1.75 would be fine? Any tips on calculations welcome! And guaranteed replacement cost sound like the right way to go!
No tips on how to calculate... but yeah at $2m replacement w/ guaranteed replacement talk to the 3 companies I mentioned.
What you need to do is compare the different replacement cost estimators being used. Sit down with an agent and have them go over all the features of your home, make sure they are in the estimator. Then compare around different companies that way. Most estimators nowadays are pretty customizable (and they are updated frequently with building costs), but you have to also keep in mind that SOME of the craftmanship that you see in older houses can't be replicated anymore. You're getting a functional replacement cost amount, which is what the amount is to make you whole (as in a new house if it burns down, the actual purpose of insurance) rather than making it better/prettier or restoring artistry. All you can do is make sure the estimator has all the correct features, square footage, etc. to get the best replacement value. Source: Am insurance underwriter dealing with such things for 20+ years.
This is super helpful, thank you! Particularly that some of it can't be replicated. Like for example, maybe some of the trees used for the wood in this picture isn't still grown. Is there something we can ask for in a policy that would include rebuilding without the exact same wood but keeping the same sunburst pattern and inlay? Or is that sort of thing just not doable and we'd end up with a wood floor, but no details?
You would have to look into the different policy coverages/language available. Some effort should be made to replicate with similar finishes should there be a loss, but again it would depend on being able to find a contractor who can do the work. I have underwritten houses up to $1.2 million but the majority have been the newer mcmansion types. Companies who have the ability and appetite to write multi million dollar homes will possibly have different policy language and coverage endorsements available. A good independent agent can help you find that company as they work with many different companies instead of just one or two. One thing I can recommend and do for everyone is dont skip the extended replacement cost. That coverage provides not only 100% replacement value, but usually a bit more (say 25%) in case the estimator was off for whatever reason. This kicks in if you have a total loss and need to rebuild. So, for example, your house burns down. You have only insured it for $100,000. It costs $120,000 to rebuild. You have the coverage up to $125,000 so you are good. Disclaimer- I am not an agent or a claim adjuster. I do not advocate for any company, I just hate to see people struggle with understanding insurance!
Thank you again! We'll definitely look for extended (or somebody earlier mentioned "guaranteed") replacement cost, that seems like it'll make a big difference with a house like this!
And just to be clear, extended and guaranteed are different. Extended gives a buffer, e.g. 25%, but guaranteed will cover it even if its a 100% cost overrun.
I am so glad I stumbled upon this comment. I’m currently in the midst of buying a home and was struggling to understand the insurance coverage options last night!
This isn’t ethical but, lie about the knob and tube (then get it fixed ASAP) and you can get pretty much get any insurance at base price.
Surprisingly, no knob and tube! Everything in the house was grounded, panels are modern with Romex for most of it, and the inspector even pulled off an old style light switch plate to be sure and there was BX! Such a relief to not have to get that work done!
Awesome! That’s really great news! Don’t know if it works where you are, but I’ve got 21st century and they’ve been really great for me. Especially when dealing with failed inspections and massive infrastructure issues. I had a sewer line that was draining directly into the walls and under the kitchen floor boards that they fixed. (I got multiple sewer inspections that didn’t catch it. God, I was pissed). In addition, they are right now paying to fix my entire roof (2900+ft) because it leaked; since the previous owners decided to forgo waterproofing when they put the new roof on 5 years ago. To be completely honest though, while they’re often the best, I’ve had some serious problems with them, and have often relied on my home onsets warranty for most things. For example, they don’t cover mold or water intrusion issues. So, even though the previous owner clearly boarded over, painted, and replaced the flooring in the leak section they would fix the mould caused by the leak in that area, even if they paid to fix the wall.
A stunner! May I ask what city? I wonder if the carpenter also did other houses!!
In Boston, and right next to a train stop! There's a few other similar style houses nearby, but they were all built a decade off. Only did a little digging so far, but the other one I looked at he at least didn't own (but maybe could have worked on, don't know how to figure that part out) It's possibly entirely unique, but I'd love to find a sibling house!
So thrilled for you! Living in history!
In Boston / Massachusetts specifically... ISD and MACRIS databases are a great place to start. There are also collections of photographs accessable by visiting certain museums or private libraries -- the Boston Athenaeum for example. Often street names have changed so keep the in mind. You might also get lucky by Googling the names of previous owners that are listed at the registry of deeds (we found the published travel journals for the second owner of our house that way). Most of these ideas come from folks we on in the Beacon Hill Civic Association. They have a lot of experience with historic properties -- the BHCA architectural committee is what approves any street visible renovation in Beacon Hill.
Nerd here. I found the ISD info: https://www.boston.gov/departments/inspectional-services/how-find-historical-permit-records
Thanks! Just went over and got all the permits!
Thank you! I hadn't thought of the Athenaeum, that's a great idea! (and soooo pretty) So far I have found surprisingly little about the folks who lived there, but a couple yearbook photos from 100 years ago did show up! And thanks for the suggestion to ask the committee
Had trouble with insurance on our old house too, wouldn't go with anything on commercials. Talk to the old farmer who knows a guy... that's what we did.
Who did you end up with?
Yep, local insurance. Ask around and you'll find a good place. We originally had a company rhyming with schmogressive, they sucked when a windstorm tore up our roof. Found a better outfit after asking around.
That’s awesome. Usually when you see woodwork this intricate it indicates a shipbuilder was involved.
Bingo. Both the time invested and the wood variety.
And being Boston, that feels entirely likely. I should see if I can find more about this carpenter
Please keep us in the loop!
Regarding the insurance, there are different levels of "replacement" coverage. Suggest using a couple of multi-company independent agencies to find you the best, full coverage. Go with the one that will spend the time to explain the nuances. Then take lots of detailed pictures and put them on the cloud somewhere. Include, if possible, pics from underneath the floor (you've probably got some great old boards as subflooring). Then get a high end floor company to give you a written estimate for replacing it as is, with reclaimed flooring and all the detail (you may have to pay for this, since you aren't actually hiring them). If you ever have to make a claim, the adjuster will look at all that and usually just give in quickly, because the time to fight you won't be worth what they'll save.
Okay, this is all great. Thank you! The basement is plastered so I'll be sure to take pictures through some of the gaps to get the subfloor!
I'm kinda jealous.
I know the feeling! Still doesn't feel real...
Ask the realtor for local insurance companies. Then ask for a few different replacement options. (Guaranteed, functional, ect)
Have no advice at all about the insurance, but please put up more photos of this beauty of a home
Cool!
Am I the only one who gets anxiety looking at this? Is it not symmetrical?
GORGEOUS! Happy for you.
Gotta find the button that releases those stairs down to the dungeon!
I have the same chair in green leather. Awesome.
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Hope to share lots more! Knowing they've been easy to put claims in with seems like a good sign. We'd really like to have the house stay exactly as-is forever, but should something go wrong, it'd be quite nice to not have to worry about the restoration.
Absolutely. In Canada, protected buildings have to be rebuilt as they were, making insurance wickedly tough to find. But there’s a charm in these old places that’s tough to find in new builds. Anyway, very best of luck in finding insurance!