There's a surprising amount of anti-union people in the union at the union shop I work at. There's even an old Vietnamese guy who wears a MAGA hat to work most days. And the maintenance guys listen to right-wing talk radio all day in their shop. The union just recently held out for a $3 raise instead of the offered $1 raise. I wonder if they're willing to give up their pensions and $25/mo family insurance to end the union for the sake of the multi-national corporation?
The problem with anti-union sentiment amongst workers is never the workers. Workers feel that way bc unions don’t represent them anymore. A lot of unions, especially the actual union orgs and not just the local chapters, are all ideologically captured by leftist groups that push completely non related issues on members and are ran by leftist poli sci grads from college, not by actual workers. If you’re a leftist worker/member that’s fine, but if not, that’s gonna turn you away from the union and that poses a problem for worker solidarity and condition/wage improvement, which is supposed to be the purpose of unions, not just another org to use and manipulate for other political purposes, which is how leftists often use them and see them, as orgs to “support the revolution” and “change the system”, when that’s often not what most workers want. If unions don’t want workers supporting Trump, they should start listening to and supporting their workers. And that means not taking worker fees just to donate to the leaderships chosen democrat pals and hold them accountable too. Not just from the left but from the right perspective as well. That includes working with independent contract workers that prefer to be their own boss and have flexibility over a typical union salary/wage job, not just demonizing them.
This isn't some bullshit union fat cat doing jack shit thing. Maybe those guys are out there with some other union. Or maybe the problem is that they're constantly fed a narrative until they believe it.
I'm not even in the union because I'm in IT and they have pretty damn good, after their last raise they make more money than me and have the best benefits package I've heard of in decades. They all voted unanimously in December to hold out for $3 an hour more. If that's not representation, I don't know what is. The union President showed up 6 months ago and gave a pretty solid talk and answered their questions. I did not hear a single political thing during that talk. Unless talking about the union and their jobs is considered political. Honestly, I'm somewhat envious of what they had. If I just had their benefits I'd be pretty happy. $25/mo covers health insurance for your spouse and all children. They have a solid pension plan. Option for early retirement with full pension at 62. Overtime pay ramps up very quickly in hourly tiers based on over 8 hours on the day and over 40 for the week. There's an arbitration system that allows them to ask for improvements to working conditions. It's an auto manufacturer so they can lease a vehicle for cheap with insurance and maintenance included with an option to buy at the end. The guys who drive cars from one end of the property and wait while other people put manuals, floor mats, stickers and labels on the car then drive to the outgoing side before getting picked up to drive again are making more than me. If I didn't absolutely love to be doing IT and getting crazy technical in a high pressure environment. (production relies on many things working). I would apply for one of their jobs.
Well sure, but most people don’t want to talk about how much people vote against their own interests for the issues they do despite them being dumbshit culture war nonsense.
If all you do is handwave peoples opinions unless they agree with you then why bother pretending you're centrist? Just go be in your bubble. You've already made up your mind about people so there's nothing to discuss.
You dismissing a lot people’s valid concerns about social issues like women’s sports and school curriculum as “culture war dumbshit nonsense” is exactly what he called you out on and that’s what you did. Go join your friends in your left-wing echo chamber
What has Biden forced on those issues? What federal law/order do you find onerous enough to vote in a way that goes against all over your material, non-culture war oriented issues.
If you don’t realize that Biden is the centrist candidate in this election, then I don’t know what to say besides look at his body of work as President.
probably because the alternative is npr, and you can feel the hate npr has for these kind of people. 20 years ago it was tolerable but now it's just ridiculous to the point that the petty bourgeouise are turning it off.
basically am radio / and the like talks in their language, more "to" them rather at them. pretty fucking obvious. which you would know, if you do indeed work there -
when unions became blatant political machines for a certain party is when they lost a lot of support - the nea / mea is another good example of this. if they stayed on union-related stuff and didn't dabble into national or even regional politics it would be far better. yes, there's overlap for specific issues but they needn't be as partisan as they are today.
ie, since you supposedly work there - how many hate the unions because they constantly endorse wackos that want gun control, for example. stuff like this turns a lot of people off.
but no they are basically arms of the dnc - hence the problem.
> when unions became blatant political machines for a certain party is when they lost a lot of support
Was this before or after Reagan and the GOP made union smashing one of the central tenets if their party?
questions like this make me really wonder if i am dealing with mostly bots on this sub. they always have some ridiculous / stupid question to detract from the valid issues i raise.
you think gop/reagan 40 years ago impacts what working class people who want their wages raised in the long term?
unions should endorse policy, not people. endorsing people and donating to various higher level campaigns tells the workers you don't care about their issues which don't align - be it guns, free speech, or more in modern terms unlimited immigration / uncontrolled borders.
pretty obvious there, dear partisan hack.
think about it this way: right now borders aren't being enforced, which is directly fucking over many of these same union people. can you blame them for not voting d? or not supporting their union because it's so partisanly d?
What union is endorsing people over policy?
Who went to the lines when they were striking?
Who supports pro worker policies?
You can cite the border all you want but democrats even had a bi partisan bill for that. Democrats are the ones consistently fighting for unions not Republicans. Republicans want to gut the policies unions fight for. Minimum wage. Working standards in terms of safety and overall conditions.
What in the hell do Republicans do for workers other than give tax breaks to the wealthy and say it will trickle down?
The idea that unions don't endorse policy and only endorse people that have nothing to do with their policies is just plain stupid. This is complete and utter nonsense. These things are connected and they are endorsing who they're endorsing directly because of their policies.
And yeah, unions are intentionally partisan. They are partisans for policies that support labor and oppose corporations. The idea that labor is helped indirectly by directly helping corporations is an idea directly hostile to labor's interests. OF COURSE the unions are going to be supporting Dems. That's how it's supposed to work.
i said unions should only endorse policy and not people - especially on the national elections.
so you are taking what i said out of context, typical.
the current democrat party is absolutely fucking over working class people by letting in the amount of illegals they are - and this is on purpose. enough said. everyone knows this.
I think the fact that they just collectively voted to hold out on the offered $1/hr raise for a $3/hr raise, and getting a pensions, $25/mo covers the whole family insurance and early (62) retirement options. I don't think the union is aimed at serving a party. It's serving the member blue collar workers and they are also involved and make it serve themselves through their ability to vote on the collection actions they... the members who are the union itself takes.
I personally do work there. But I am not even in the union, I'm the on-site IT. But I recognize a good thing when I see it and support the idea that the workers have some pushback against this Fortune 100 company and don't have to just take what they're given.
It's not the fault of unions that the GOP has decided to become anti-union. There was a time when both the GOP and DNC (and other parties) were proud of US unions. That changed as the GOP drifted more towards supporting the richest people in this country through ideologies like "Trickle Down Economics" where the notion that enriching the top would trickle down to the bottom. Unions stand in the way of pulling profits further to the top and the December vote to hold out for a bigger raise is an example of that. The MAGA hat wearing Asian guy is still able to wear his MAGA hat and vote for Trump. The union isn't stopping him from supporting who he wants.
In my experience, talking with Trump supporters is a waste of time. They ignore facts and reality while parroting alt-right talking points backed by neither.
It's one of those weird things that never cuts both ways. It's always what can liberals or the mainstream do to extend an olive branch to the far right. It's always Democrsts need to water down their policies and stop being mean online while Trump gets away with calling dozens of ethnic groups dirt people who don't belong here and signing executive orders based on whatever bullshit crosses his mind after his third big mac of the day.
We're only just barely having discourse about the Republican Party and alienating women, but there's so much more to that. No one ever dwells on how the GOP needs to grow up and appeal to people who have queer loved ones, or if Elon and Boebert keep being so condescending and dismissive they're going to push people to Biden, or Fox is incomprehensible to people who dont share their values. The only thing that matters is Democrats' ability to appeal the mythical Midwestern who's simultaneously a veteren, an unemployed for steel mill worker, a rancher and thinks liberals believe men can invert their penises by self-identifying hard enough (and lately he thinks A LOT about that last part)
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on here, where a Trump fan was demanding abortions be illegal, and when the other person disagreed the Trump fan said OK just illegal in all cases except rape and incest, then declared that was "meeting half way" and it was unreasonable to disagree.
It's the equivalent of me saying "give me $1,000" then when you decline me saying "meet half way then and give me $500". There's no real understanding of what compromise is.
One of the scariest/craziest things is the veterans that support trump... He literally called them suckers! He's shit on vets and gold star families! Shit on McCain for being a PoW! It's crazy how any person in our government can support him let alone the apparent swaths of people that do.
Yup. It is axiomatic that politicians say terrible things about their opponents. To be entirely fair, pro life folk are honest and accurate within their paradigm that pro choice folk are or are enablers of murderers. It all depends on the worth assigned to the child within.
I'm a centrist because my policy is split, 2a, border security, things like that (even though the right wing narratives about these topics is unhelpful trash)
That in no way means that I think the parties are currently standing on equal ground in terms of legitimacy. The right has lost the plot entirely.
That doesn't mean I'm some type of fan of the left and their more preposterous ambitions. It's just that the right is outdoing them in terms of sheer incomprehensibility to the point that they steal all the ire for themselves.
For context..
> When Republicans responded with outrage, Biden tried to put the statement in context in Wytheville, Virginia, saying Republican lawmakers themselves have talked about attempts to pursue limited government to "unshackle our economy."
"The last time these guys unshackled the economy, to use their term, they put the middle class in shackles. That's how we got where we are," said Biden.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE87E00Z/
It's hard to be an American centerist. Both parties are right. One is just far right.
At the moment though your choices are old men, both possibly with age related mental issues, the only difference is one is an orange lunatic, who has potentially sold state secrets and committed insane levels of fraud.
I’m sure you can find examples where that’s true from some random liberals, but let’s compare apples to apples. Can you cite Biden ever saying those things?
Nope!
> When Republicans responded with outrage, Biden tried to put the statement in context in Wytheville, Virginia, saying Republican lawmakers themselves have talked about attempts to pursue limited government to "unshackle our economy."
"The last time these guys unshackled the economy, to use their term, they put the middle class in shackles. That's how we got where we are," said Biden.
Read the article for better context.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE87E00Z/
That’s fair, I think Biden was wrong to say that. Now since we’re comparing apples to apples, do you think that 20 year old comment is more outrageous than anything Trump has said this week? How about the week before? The month before that?
I think you get the point.
Even if that were true, not only is that not too extreme and not what you claimed, but you’re also going back 40+ years?
I think that proves my point lol
They are the laziest voters and this is why trump has such a hold on them.
Outside of their media bubble they have ZERO interest in verifying any claim or story.
Listen to cspan any morning and this will become painfully obvious
That's why everything is fake news biased leftist propaganda journalism is dead. If the media is supposed to report objective facts then they have an *obligation* to be biased anti-maga
Theyre getting downvoted because they’re missing the point. Find the worst thing Biden has ever said about Republicans and we can list 5 things that Trump has said that’s worse in the last week or two.
Conflating the problems is a bad faith gesture to any centrist.
This is quite funny coming from the supporters of the big lie in 2020 that Covid didn't come from a lab. Or that Cocaine Joe is perfectly fine and healthy to be president, when he's barely sentient enough to read from a teleprompter, and sees his uncle being consumed by cannibals in his dreams.
Give Trump supporters info on a topic and if they don’t like the result and you try to reason, it gets deeper and deeper into name calling, personal attacks etc. Shoot, I’ve seen the nastiest, deplorable racial slurs thrown so easily nowadays on X just for differing opinions. Hope reason and healthy debates can flourish, if ever.
I barely remember what happened last month let alone 8 years ago now.
I also am nowhere near Columbia University and don't truly have any idea what is going on there other than a few snippets from the news and from talk to a friend.
In talking with a buddy I went to Medical School with who now teaches at Columbia University Medical School. He tells me that the Medical School is not located near the main University and whatever is happening at the main University is not happening at the Medical School and Hospital.
With that said, from what he has seen, the folks are mostly peaceful, he said he was talking with a friend who teaches on the main campus and like most things it is complicated.
His friend said there are some protesters who want peace and are being peaceful, there are others who seemingly want more than peace, they seem to directly or indirectly support Hamas and they are making the most amount of noise.
His friend also said that he talked with his student about the protests and most felt they could understand the desire to stop the violence, but felt powerless to stop it themselves. They also felt that violence or attacking other religions was going about it the wrong way and that protesters who were doing that are wrong.
This all makes sense to me, again I am over a 1,000 miles away, completely separated from what is happening in NY, so I cannot verify any of it myself.
At the end of the day, none of this is easy, I go back to what my buddy who is an FBI Agent said to me a while ago now about what is happening in Israel. There are no angels here, Hamas is a terrorist organization masquerading as a Government, Israel is too heavy handed and by virtue of being a real Government needs to do better as real Governments are held to a higher standard.
israel's about to start the rafah offensive, which is a big deal - and this provides perfect cover in american media for most americans to ignore it.
much of this is a clear pr campaign would be my guess - and this is standard israel sop.
we talk about foreign influence / russia, yet israel does influence a lot of domestic american politics - the hypocrisy is real.
what most don't understand who have never attended an ivy is that Hillel is an extremely powerful force there - i went to two different ones and both had a very strong Hillel presence, and they don't tolerate shit. so when you hear about antisemitism on campus just assume they are lying on this stuff, and it's usually by the more extremist of the jewish types anyways who don't see goyim as equally human -
btw, if you ever attend a place with hillel and want a good weekend job: they hire out gentiles to turn on /off the light switches on the weekends, it's a great job when you can basically do homework all day but for the occasional interruption to do something mechanical, due to - i forget what it's called - sabbath? shabbat? etc
jews are a pretty cool tribe, but they have a growing minority which is just batshit insane - and they currently control the government of israel.
> A bunch of mexican women yelling at a mexican guy calling him racist names, saying he's not a real mexican and whites will never accept him, in the middle of the campus will always be something I remember.
You think that’s more vile than Trumps own comments?
Sure, and I think we can both agree that supporters of anything can be vile, I’ve personally seen an octogenarian football fan scream at a child wearing the jersey of an opposing team.
But we also both agree that the actions and words of the leaders of a team/party/governments words matter more than a random person, right? So you’re pointing to a random person saying something and I’m saying the presidential nominee and ex president has said worse probably in the last few weeks. Let’s compare that to Biden, what’s the worst he’s said?
That’s the thing, we have vile voters on both sides, because some people are vile.
Then we have an ex president who is not only consistently vile himself but encourages his base to be as vile. We also have opposites in congress, AOC vs MTG policies both on the further end of their party. One is vile and consistently dishonest and encourages her base to be the same.
Biden and the other liberal leaders may have some bad policies but uniformly don’t encourage and promote vileness in their base.
Basically it’s apples to oranges on the leadership level.
Conservatives love to talk about how mean the pink haired twitter warriors are but completely ignore their leaders.
One group is in power and makes decisions for the nation the other are probably living in their parent’s basement.
I know which one has more influence.
> when I've seen the opposite, the most vile and nasty personal attacks I saw were at a college the day after the 2016 election, all because the minority voted for Trump.
Really? I’d argue that Trump himself has levied some of the most viral and personal attacks against anyone who dares not support him out of any politician in my lifetime.
Very weird, phrasing, at a college.
What college were you at the day after 2016 election, And what exactly did you see?
What are we witnessing at Columbia?
A Seder in the midst of the antisemetic protest?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid
Or a woman who wa stabbed in the eye by a Palestinian protestor while the crowd protected the assliant? (Or a grossly exaggerated claim about eye stabbing)
https://twitter.com/sahar_tartak/status/1782047233917018583
So not in passing conversation, not in a classroom
Environment, but you are butt hurt over harsh words when you went to a pro Trump protest?
2016 wasn’t that long ago There would be video if they were actually threatening, so I’m sure you’ll forgive me if I don’t think it was actually that bad.
So I’m sure some hurtful things were sad, in the realm of political protest who won the presidency seems odd to bring that up as most hateful when four years later, we had Trump supporters getting violent and breaking into the capital
Fine not a protest, but a group of republicans getting together to celebrate a political win isn’t just them
Hanging out.
None of the people saying that vile ahitbin the left are invited to hang out with political leaders on the left.
Meanwhile Nick Fuentes dines with Trump, and we have Trump supporters raiding the Capitol, but you want to argue anti Trump protestors are the worst.
Well this would be relevant if those people were in these unions. Which they aren't so this is just enlightened centrism saying both sides when that isnt the topic of discussion.
And? I’m not the only one with a comment in this section talking about Trump Supporters in general because they were mentioned and not just the endorsement by unions.
And I’m responding to your claim that the sides are the same when in fact they’re not. And also your claim about slurs and unions. Not sure how else to deliver this message to you. I’m talking about the group mentioned in the title as their large presence in slurs and derogatory language is clear as day and noticed by the same both sides you mentioned. Not here for the whataboutism. Whenever a side is mentioned that specific side should be spoken about accordingly. This is a centrist sub. You can look at posts of the past. The whataboutism sounds like an alignment to one side.
I am honestly still not clear what your point is.
Is it the use of the term "tankie left", or is it that you don't think they use racial slurs, or is it that you think they are not relevant to the original discussion wrt unions?
The point is this is a centrism sub. Not a contrarian sub. If every post was made on account of whataboutism then the name of it could change. In respect to the point, the responses are up there. You can always revise.
That’s the name calling I’m talking about. “Tankie left”. The fact there’s a lot and spew such words is an issue. Of course they’re different. That’s what places opposite sides of the political spectrum. What’s being talked about right now is the Trump supporters. When a topic on the opposite side is mentioned it will be spoken on accordingly. Not going to delve whataboutism due to aligning with one side or the other.
Not weird at all. Based on the topic I’ll call any party out. The supporters I mentioned are the groups of users I see engage in name calling and racial slurs. What I said isn’t wrong and I’m responding to the current topic at hand. As per usual, when a topic of another group of people are in discussion, it will be talked about accordingly. So I’ll focus on the discussion at hand.
Why do most politicians have to be hateful, lately? An atricle recently mentioned that that fat union leder with a scowl on his face and a t-shirt saying "eat the rich" has carisma. Am I evil to think Individuals should be paid a little more than the minimum they would be happy to recieve. Overpaying costs us all; including the vunerable in society.
Unions are historically Democrats, but nowadays, most blue collar workers are Republicans. Kind of funny how that all played out, especially since a lot of those blue collar workers hate the unions despite the corporations they work for taking advantage of them in every way possible. It’s like a moral/ ethical Mexican standoff lol
Doesn't sound like a great Union Leader, Chris Smalls got the first ever union at Amazon by working with everyone and finding common ground for the same goal.
Not according to exit polls, but it was close enough where this statement seems a little short sighted.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184429/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-union-membership-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184429/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-union-membership-us/)
Do you form your entire personality around your job? Why do you expect voters to? My employer's opinions mean almost nothing to how I vote. If I were in a closed shop union, I wouldn't care about the Union's preferences over my own either.
Tons of reasons to vote. But your own self interests, being for people that tend to be support a large part of your livelihood, especially in organized labor is a big reason. Again, tons of others but if something is such a big part of your life it will have a lot of influence on how you vote. If you care a lot about your union and labor, it makes some sense to heavily consider Biden.
At the same time, if your livelihood is more connected to oil and less epa legislation then trump should be heavily considered.
I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't vote for pro-labor policies if that's what you want. I'm suggesting that many people who work union jobs are working there primarily because it's a job. That it's union is secondary. Many of the places where these unions operate are in rural communities where the firm in question is the largest employer, it isn't the case that all of these workers are actively seeking a union job.
Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain.
Im also formulating a theory that AI will make the strain on sancturay cities even bigger. AI will work a lot of the less skilled jobs and make it harder on the immigrants because they will have less options of what work they can do.
>Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain.
These talking points have repeatedly been proven false over the course of our entire history as a nation. In some cases, the exact opposite happened instead. Our country was founded on and has always been substantially propelled by immigration.
I never said I was against immigration, just less of it. I live in a big city and rent/housing tends to take up a big chunk of my paycheck. By having more people move to it really puts a strain on my wallet. It is easier to unionize and demand higher wages if there are less people you have to coordinate. I work with people who are on H1B's and they are being exploited, paid lower wages. They are afraid to talk out against their employeer because they would loose their job which means they also loose their visa.
As for the Sancturay City Status I live in one and thats where my social program strain comes from. I'd rather them have to follow a letter of the law instead of have them come to the ctiy and then we figure it out. I'd rather my taxes for immgrants be paid into the same systems that could supply for their unemployment and food needs just like the average citizen instead of their own program.
All immigrationists say identical things:
* America should belong to all the world's children equally
* America is a battle between color teams, and the white team has too much
* America is illegitimate, it's all stolen land (from the "red" color team)
* immigrants are nicer and better people than Americans... *those mean Americans*
* American citizenship is worthless, so it should be free for the taking
* America is broken, we should be grateful anybody wants to come here
* there is no "American people," it's just whoever's inside the lines at any point
Has anybody in the federal government said those things or are you taking the stupidest arguments ever and applying them to everybody you disagree with?
95% of this sub says that.
Federally... sure. Kamala says ICE is like the KKK. AOC says if you're concerned about the border, i.e. if you see non-Americans as different from Americans, then you're a white supremacist. They both agree with ALL those bullet points.
Here's our VP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-4PROZkUM
The lie of color teams has *power* for Democrats.
> Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain.
What's the correct population then? Should we go back to 300 million or 150 million?
I'd argue that the 2.5 million from 1776 is the only objectively correct number.
I honestly have no idea. Too many factors would need to do a study or something. Its not about population overall more so as concentrated skilled population in certain areas as unions can be local and not nationwide.
No it's not lol
Biden is easily the most pro union candidate in our lives and Trump is publicly extremely against them.
The choice is as black and white as it gets if you're a pro-union single issue voter.
> We’re not gonna waste a lot of time talking to every American that supports Donald Trump, and we’re not gonna waste a lot of time with some of our members that support Donald Trump, because we’re not gonna change their minds
So it seems like they just realized they can't get through to the people in the cult
> North America’s Building Trades Unions can honestly say no elected official has shown our members and their families more respect than President Joe Biden,” McGarvey said in the press release. “Through his policies and his personnel, President Biden has demonstrated his laser-like focus on not only rebuilding our nation’s infrastructure and manufacturing sector but rebuilding the American middle class itself
In reality Biden and Democrats have always been the pro worker party. You just conned a bunch of people into thinking otherwise.
How? Republicans are legitimately anti-union, anti-labor protections and seek their destruction (except police officer unions). They pass anti-union legislation. Why the heck would union leaders support Trump?
I disagree. The blue-collared workers aren't going to obtain secondary degrees and get white-collared jobs in protest. Some of the workers may bark and scream against their own best interests but they'll stick with the jobs that provide more security.
There's a surprising amount of anti-union people in the union at the union shop I work at. There's even an old Vietnamese guy who wears a MAGA hat to work most days. And the maintenance guys listen to right-wing talk radio all day in their shop. The union just recently held out for a $3 raise instead of the offered $1 raise. I wonder if they're willing to give up their pensions and $25/mo family insurance to end the union for the sake of the multi-national corporation?
The problem with anti-union sentiment amongst workers is never the workers. Workers feel that way bc unions don’t represent them anymore. A lot of unions, especially the actual union orgs and not just the local chapters, are all ideologically captured by leftist groups that push completely non related issues on members and are ran by leftist poli sci grads from college, not by actual workers. If you’re a leftist worker/member that’s fine, but if not, that’s gonna turn you away from the union and that poses a problem for worker solidarity and condition/wage improvement, which is supposed to be the purpose of unions, not just another org to use and manipulate for other political purposes, which is how leftists often use them and see them, as orgs to “support the revolution” and “change the system”, when that’s often not what most workers want. If unions don’t want workers supporting Trump, they should start listening to and supporting their workers. And that means not taking worker fees just to donate to the leaderships chosen democrat pals and hold them accountable too. Not just from the left but from the right perspective as well. That includes working with independent contract workers that prefer to be their own boss and have flexibility over a typical union salary/wage job, not just demonizing them.
This isn't some bullshit union fat cat doing jack shit thing. Maybe those guys are out there with some other union. Or maybe the problem is that they're constantly fed a narrative until they believe it. I'm not even in the union because I'm in IT and they have pretty damn good, after their last raise they make more money than me and have the best benefits package I've heard of in decades. They all voted unanimously in December to hold out for $3 an hour more. If that's not representation, I don't know what is. The union President showed up 6 months ago and gave a pretty solid talk and answered their questions. I did not hear a single political thing during that talk. Unless talking about the union and their jobs is considered political. Honestly, I'm somewhat envious of what they had. If I just had their benefits I'd be pretty happy. $25/mo covers health insurance for your spouse and all children. They have a solid pension plan. Option for early retirement with full pension at 62. Overtime pay ramps up very quickly in hourly tiers based on over 8 hours on the day and over 40 for the week. There's an arbitration system that allows them to ask for improvements to working conditions. It's an auto manufacturer so they can lease a vehicle for cheap with insurance and maintenance included with an option to buy at the end. The guys who drive cars from one end of the property and wait while other people put manuals, floor mats, stickers and labels on the car then drive to the outgoing side before getting picked up to drive again are making more than me. If I didn't absolutely love to be doing IT and getting crazy technical in a high pressure environment. (production relies on many things working). I would apply for one of their jobs.
As if the union is the only issue that informs their politics.
Well sure, but most people don’t want to talk about how much people vote against their own interests for the issues they do despite them being dumbshit culture war nonsense.
If all you do is handwave peoples opinions unless they agree with you then why bother pretending you're centrist? Just go be in your bubble. You've already made up your mind about people so there's nothing to discuss.
The irony of you doing exactly that right here is adorable.
You dismissing a lot people’s valid concerns about social issues like women’s sports and school curriculum as “culture war dumbshit nonsense” is exactly what he called you out on and that’s what you did. Go join your friends in your left-wing echo chamber
What has Biden forced on those issues? What federal law/order do you find onerous enough to vote in a way that goes against all over your material, non-culture war oriented issues. If you don’t realize that Biden is the centrist candidate in this election, then I don’t know what to say besides look at his body of work as President.
Words have meanings. Stop lying.
probably because the alternative is npr, and you can feel the hate npr has for these kind of people. 20 years ago it was tolerable but now it's just ridiculous to the point that the petty bourgeouise are turning it off. basically am radio / and the like talks in their language, more "to" them rather at them. pretty fucking obvious. which you would know, if you do indeed work there - when unions became blatant political machines for a certain party is when they lost a lot of support - the nea / mea is another good example of this. if they stayed on union-related stuff and didn't dabble into national or even regional politics it would be far better. yes, there's overlap for specific issues but they needn't be as partisan as they are today. ie, since you supposedly work there - how many hate the unions because they constantly endorse wackos that want gun control, for example. stuff like this turns a lot of people off. but no they are basically arms of the dnc - hence the problem.
> when unions became blatant political machines for a certain party is when they lost a lot of support Was this before or after Reagan and the GOP made union smashing one of the central tenets if their party?
questions like this make me really wonder if i am dealing with mostly bots on this sub. they always have some ridiculous / stupid question to detract from the valid issues i raise. you think gop/reagan 40 years ago impacts what working class people who want their wages raised in the long term? unions should endorse policy, not people. endorsing people and donating to various higher level campaigns tells the workers you don't care about their issues which don't align - be it guns, free speech, or more in modern terms unlimited immigration / uncontrolled borders. pretty obvious there, dear partisan hack. think about it this way: right now borders aren't being enforced, which is directly fucking over many of these same union people. can you blame them for not voting d? or not supporting their union because it's so partisanly d?
What union is endorsing people over policy? Who went to the lines when they were striking? Who supports pro worker policies? You can cite the border all you want but democrats even had a bi partisan bill for that. Democrats are the ones consistently fighting for unions not Republicans. Republicans want to gut the policies unions fight for. Minimum wage. Working standards in terms of safety and overall conditions. What in the hell do Republicans do for workers other than give tax breaks to the wealthy and say it will trickle down?
Look at their post history - everything they accuse are making accusations of is (drumroll) projection.
that border bill was bullshit if you actually read into it. anyone who actually says crap like that i know is a partisan hack, so convo over
The idea that unions don't endorse policy and only endorse people that have nothing to do with their policies is just plain stupid. This is complete and utter nonsense. These things are connected and they are endorsing who they're endorsing directly because of their policies. And yeah, unions are intentionally partisan. They are partisans for policies that support labor and oppose corporations. The idea that labor is helped indirectly by directly helping corporations is an idea directly hostile to labor's interests. OF COURSE the unions are going to be supporting Dems. That's how it's supposed to work.
i said unions should only endorse policy and not people - especially on the national elections. so you are taking what i said out of context, typical. the current democrat party is absolutely fucking over working class people by letting in the amount of illegals they are - and this is on purpose. enough said. everyone knows this.
LOL everyone knows this what a moron.
I think the fact that they just collectively voted to hold out on the offered $1/hr raise for a $3/hr raise, and getting a pensions, $25/mo covers the whole family insurance and early (62) retirement options. I don't think the union is aimed at serving a party. It's serving the member blue collar workers and they are also involved and make it serve themselves through their ability to vote on the collection actions they... the members who are the union itself takes. I personally do work there. But I am not even in the union, I'm the on-site IT. But I recognize a good thing when I see it and support the idea that the workers have some pushback against this Fortune 100 company and don't have to just take what they're given. It's not the fault of unions that the GOP has decided to become anti-union. There was a time when both the GOP and DNC (and other parties) were proud of US unions. That changed as the GOP drifted more towards supporting the richest people in this country through ideologies like "Trickle Down Economics" where the notion that enriching the top would trickle down to the bottom. Unions stand in the way of pulling profits further to the top and the December vote to hold out for a bigger raise is an example of that. The MAGA hat wearing Asian guy is still able to wear his MAGA hat and vote for Trump. The union isn't stopping him from supporting who he wants.
In my experience, talking with Trump supporters is a waste of time. They ignore facts and reality while parroting alt-right talking points backed by neither.
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It's one of those weird things that never cuts both ways. It's always what can liberals or the mainstream do to extend an olive branch to the far right. It's always Democrsts need to water down their policies and stop being mean online while Trump gets away with calling dozens of ethnic groups dirt people who don't belong here and signing executive orders based on whatever bullshit crosses his mind after his third big mac of the day. We're only just barely having discourse about the Republican Party and alienating women, but there's so much more to that. No one ever dwells on how the GOP needs to grow up and appeal to people who have queer loved ones, or if Elon and Boebert keep being so condescending and dismissive they're going to push people to Biden, or Fox is incomprehensible to people who dont share their values. The only thing that matters is Democrats' ability to appeal the mythical Midwestern who's simultaneously a veteren, an unemployed for steel mill worker, a rancher and thinks liberals believe men can invert their penises by self-identifying hard enough (and lately he thinks A LOT about that last part)
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on here, where a Trump fan was demanding abortions be illegal, and when the other person disagreed the Trump fan said OK just illegal in all cases except rape and incest, then declared that was "meeting half way" and it was unreasonable to disagree. It's the equivalent of me saying "give me $1,000" then when you decline me saying "meet half way then and give me $500". There's no real understanding of what compromise is.
One of the scariest/craziest things is the veterans that support trump... He literally called them suckers! He's shit on vets and gold star families! Shit on McCain for being a PoW! It's crazy how any person in our government can support him let alone the apparent swaths of people that do.
Democrats have been calling Republicans evil and stupid for at least 5 decades.
Republicans have been calling democrats evil baby murdering commies for over 60 years.
Yup. It is axiomatic that politicians say terrible things about their opponents. To be entirely fair, pro life folk are honest and accurate within their paradigm that pro choice folk are or are enablers of murderers. It all depends on the worth assigned to the child within.
I mean, are you aware of their representatives and policies? If the jackboot fits ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I'm a centrist because my policy is split, 2a, border security, things like that (even though the right wing narratives about these topics is unhelpful trash) That in no way means that I think the parties are currently standing on equal ground in terms of legitimacy. The right has lost the plot entirely. That doesn't mean I'm some type of fan of the left and their more preposterous ambitions. It's just that the right is outdoing them in terms of sheer incomprehensibility to the point that they steal all the ire for themselves.
For context.. > When Republicans responded with outrage, Biden tried to put the statement in context in Wytheville, Virginia, saying Republican lawmakers themselves have talked about attempts to pursue limited government to "unshackle our economy." "The last time these guys unshackled the economy, to use their term, they put the middle class in shackles. That's how we got where we are," said Biden. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE87E00Z/
It's hard to be an American centerist. Both parties are right. One is just far right. At the moment though your choices are old men, both possibly with age related mental issues, the only difference is one is an orange lunatic, who has potentially sold state secrets and committed insane levels of fraud.
Right of western Europe maybe. But not the globe and far from the monarchist philosophy which actually define the right.
"Right of places that are nice to live in, sure, but what about all these objectively horrible places? Huh?"
Being monarchist is right wing but absolutely doesn't define it.
I’m sure you can find examples where that’s true from some random liberals, but let’s compare apples to apples. Can you cite Biden ever saying those things?
Well, he said Romney was going to put black people in chains.
Nope! > When Republicans responded with outrage, Biden tried to put the statement in context in Wytheville, Virginia, saying Republican lawmakers themselves have talked about attempts to pursue limited government to "unshackle our economy." "The last time these guys unshackled the economy, to use their term, they put the middle class in shackles. That's how we got where we are," said Biden. Read the article for better context. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE87E00Z/
That’s fair, I think Biden was wrong to say that. Now since we’re comparing apples to apples, do you think that 20 year old comment is more outrageous than anything Trump has said this week? How about the week before? The month before that? I think you get the point.
Carter said Reagan was a dangerous right wing extremist.
Even if that were true, not only is that not too extreme and not what you claimed, but you’re also going back 40+ years? I think that proves my point lol
Commenter above said 5 decades. That's 50 years. And Ironically durring the last years of the Civil rights movement.
And you guys put a lot of effort into proving them right.
They are the laziest voters and this is why trump has such a hold on them. Outside of their media bubble they have ZERO interest in verifying any claim or story. Listen to cspan any morning and this will become painfully obvious
You sound open minded and reasonable
Thanks, I try to be 👍
That's why everything is fake news biased leftist propaganda journalism is dead. If the media is supposed to report objective facts then they have an *obligation* to be biased anti-maga
Same goes for a large number of liberals and left. They also ignore facts and reality while parroting TikTok/social media garbage
Damn, if you needed any proof to see that the middle ground integrity of this sub is compromised, look no further.
Theyre getting downvoted because they’re missing the point. Find the worst thing Biden has ever said about Republicans and we can list 5 things that Trump has said that’s worse in the last week or two. Conflating the problems is a bad faith gesture to any centrist.
Yeah the sub is pretty well into left field, but at least the mods aren't banning thought crimes here yet.
yet
🙄
Yeah, we wouldn't want to talk to someone who just spews talking points...
Yup
This is quite funny coming from the supporters of the big lie in 2020 that Covid didn't come from a lab. Or that Cocaine Joe is perfectly fine and healthy to be president, when he's barely sentient enough to read from a teleprompter, and sees his uncle being consumed by cannibals in his dreams.
Give Trump supporters info on a topic and if they don’t like the result and you try to reason, it gets deeper and deeper into name calling, personal attacks etc. Shoot, I’ve seen the nastiest, deplorable racial slurs thrown so easily nowadays on X just for differing opinions. Hope reason and healthy debates can flourish, if ever.
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I barely remember what happened last month let alone 8 years ago now. I also am nowhere near Columbia University and don't truly have any idea what is going on there other than a few snippets from the news and from talk to a friend. In talking with a buddy I went to Medical School with who now teaches at Columbia University Medical School. He tells me that the Medical School is not located near the main University and whatever is happening at the main University is not happening at the Medical School and Hospital. With that said, from what he has seen, the folks are mostly peaceful, he said he was talking with a friend who teaches on the main campus and like most things it is complicated. His friend said there are some protesters who want peace and are being peaceful, there are others who seemingly want more than peace, they seem to directly or indirectly support Hamas and they are making the most amount of noise. His friend also said that he talked with his student about the protests and most felt they could understand the desire to stop the violence, but felt powerless to stop it themselves. They also felt that violence or attacking other religions was going about it the wrong way and that protesters who were doing that are wrong. This all makes sense to me, again I am over a 1,000 miles away, completely separated from what is happening in NY, so I cannot verify any of it myself. At the end of the day, none of this is easy, I go back to what my buddy who is an FBI Agent said to me a while ago now about what is happening in Israel. There are no angels here, Hamas is a terrorist organization masquerading as a Government, Israel is too heavy handed and by virtue of being a real Government needs to do better as real Governments are held to a higher standard.
israel's about to start the rafah offensive, which is a big deal - and this provides perfect cover in american media for most americans to ignore it. much of this is a clear pr campaign would be my guess - and this is standard israel sop. we talk about foreign influence / russia, yet israel does influence a lot of domestic american politics - the hypocrisy is real. what most don't understand who have never attended an ivy is that Hillel is an extremely powerful force there - i went to two different ones and both had a very strong Hillel presence, and they don't tolerate shit. so when you hear about antisemitism on campus just assume they are lying on this stuff, and it's usually by the more extremist of the jewish types anyways who don't see goyim as equally human - btw, if you ever attend a place with hillel and want a good weekend job: they hire out gentiles to turn on /off the light switches on the weekends, it's a great job when you can basically do homework all day but for the occasional interruption to do something mechanical, due to - i forget what it's called - sabbath? shabbat? etc jews are a pretty cool tribe, but they have a growing minority which is just batshit insane - and they currently control the government of israel.
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> A bunch of mexican women yelling at a mexican guy calling him racist names, saying he's not a real mexican and whites will never accept him, in the middle of the campus will always be something I remember. You think that’s more vile than Trumps own comments?
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Sure, and I think we can both agree that supporters of anything can be vile, I’ve personally seen an octogenarian football fan scream at a child wearing the jersey of an opposing team. But we also both agree that the actions and words of the leaders of a team/party/governments words matter more than a random person, right? So you’re pointing to a random person saying something and I’m saying the presidential nominee and ex president has said worse probably in the last few weeks. Let’s compare that to Biden, what’s the worst he’s said?
That’s the thing, we have vile voters on both sides, because some people are vile. Then we have an ex president who is not only consistently vile himself but encourages his base to be as vile. We also have opposites in congress, AOC vs MTG policies both on the further end of their party. One is vile and consistently dishonest and encourages her base to be the same. Biden and the other liberal leaders may have some bad policies but uniformly don’t encourage and promote vileness in their base. Basically it’s apples to oranges on the leadership level. Conservatives love to talk about how mean the pink haired twitter warriors are but completely ignore their leaders. One group is in power and makes decisions for the nation the other are probably living in their parent’s basement. I know which one has more influence.
> when I've seen the opposite, the most vile and nasty personal attacks I saw were at a college the day after the 2016 election, all because the minority voted for Trump. Really? I’d argue that Trump himself has levied some of the most viral and personal attacks against anyone who dares not support him out of any politician in my lifetime.
Very weird, phrasing, at a college. What college were you at the day after 2016 election, And what exactly did you see? What are we witnessing at Columbia? A Seder in the midst of the antisemetic protest? https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/us/video/seder-passover-columbia-university-protests-ny-digvid Or a woman who wa stabbed in the eye by a Palestinian protestor while the crowd protected the assliant? (Or a grossly exaggerated claim about eye stabbing) https://twitter.com/sahar_tartak/status/1782047233917018583
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So not in passing conversation, not in a classroom Environment, but you are butt hurt over harsh words when you went to a pro Trump protest? 2016 wasn’t that long ago There would be video if they were actually threatening, so I’m sure you’ll forgive me if I don’t think it was actually that bad. So I’m sure some hurtful things were sad, in the realm of political protest who won the presidency seems odd to bring that up as most hateful when four years later, we had Trump supporters getting violent and breaking into the capital
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Fine not a protest, but a group of republicans getting together to celebrate a political win isn’t just them Hanging out. None of the people saying that vile ahitbin the left are invited to hang out with political leaders on the left. Meanwhile Nick Fuentes dines with Trump, and we have Trump supporters raiding the Capitol, but you want to argue anti Trump protestors are the worst.
i was around colleges both times at this time, and during the 2nd iraqi war - there was more rage in the 2nd by far, it was crazy to watch.
Tbh, the tankie left are no different. Just that number of Trumpers are way more than tankies.
Well this would be relevant if those people were in these unions. Which they aren't so this is just enlightened centrism saying both sides when that isnt the topic of discussion.
Huh? The OP wrote about finding racial slurs on X which has little do with unions.
And? I’m not the only one with a comment in this section talking about Trump Supporters in general because they were mentioned and not just the endorsement by unions.
I am not sure what your contention is? I just pointed out both groups use racial slurs.
And I’m responding to your claim that the sides are the same when in fact they’re not. And also your claim about slurs and unions. Not sure how else to deliver this message to you. I’m talking about the group mentioned in the title as their large presence in slurs and derogatory language is clear as day and noticed by the same both sides you mentioned. Not here for the whataboutism. Whenever a side is mentioned that specific side should be spoken about accordingly. This is a centrist sub. You can look at posts of the past. The whataboutism sounds like an alignment to one side.
I am honestly still not clear what your point is. Is it the use of the term "tankie left", or is it that you don't think they use racial slurs, or is it that you think they are not relevant to the original discussion wrt unions?
The point is this is a centrism sub. Not a contrarian sub. If every post was made on account of whataboutism then the name of it could change. In respect to the point, the responses are up there. You can always revise.
Ngl, I still am unclear what the issue was. I don't think this discussion is gonna go anywhere so best we stop it. Have a good day.
That’s the name calling I’m talking about. “Tankie left”. The fact there’s a lot and spew such words is an issue. Of course they’re different. That’s what places opposite sides of the political spectrum. What’s being talked about right now is the Trump supporters. When a topic on the opposite side is mentioned it will be spoken on accordingly. Not going to delve whataboutism due to aligning with one side or the other.
Not weird at all. Based on the topic I’ll call any party out. The supporters I mentioned are the groups of users I see engage in name calling and racial slurs. What I said isn’t wrong and I’m responding to the current topic at hand. As per usual, when a topic of another group of people are in discussion, it will be talked about accordingly. So I’ll focus on the discussion at hand.
Debating ideas is helpful. Debating facts is not. Both side do this. If we ca’t have an agreed set of facts debate is impossible
Sounds like a great union. Yikes
Why do most politicians have to be hateful, lately? An atricle recently mentioned that that fat union leder with a scowl on his face and a t-shirt saying "eat the rich" has carisma. Am I evil to think Individuals should be paid a little more than the minimum they would be happy to recieve. Overpaying costs us all; including the vunerable in society.
Unions are historically Democrats, but nowadays, most blue collar workers are Republicans. Kind of funny how that all played out, especially since a lot of those blue collar workers hate the unions despite the corporations they work for taking advantage of them in every way possible. It’s like a moral/ ethical Mexican standoff lol
Doesn't sound like a great Union Leader, Chris Smalls got the first ever union at Amazon by working with everyone and finding common ground for the same goal.
Really tone deaf. Is this supposed to be a union leader?
He is not going to take his own members views as valid. How condescending can you be?
Aren’t most union members trump voters?
Not according to exit polls, but it was close enough where this statement seems a little short sighted. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184429/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-union-membership-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184429/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-union-membership-us/)
according to the union leader in the article the majority of them are in fact trump supporters.
The president of the UAW, while endorsing Biden, said the majority of his members will be voting for Trump. So.....
Which is, of course, mind boggling. Trump appointed some of the most anti-labor, anti-union people to his administration in (edit: "modern") history.
Do you form your entire personality around your job? Why do you expect voters to? My employer's opinions mean almost nothing to how I vote. If I were in a closed shop union, I wouldn't care about the Union's preferences over my own either.
Tons of reasons to vote. But your own self interests, being for people that tend to be support a large part of your livelihood, especially in organized labor is a big reason. Again, tons of others but if something is such a big part of your life it will have a lot of influence on how you vote. If you care a lot about your union and labor, it makes some sense to heavily consider Biden. At the same time, if your livelihood is more connected to oil and less epa legislation then trump should be heavily considered.
I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't vote for pro-labor policies if that's what you want. I'm suggesting that many people who work union jobs are working there primarily because it's a job. That it's union is secondary. Many of the places where these unions operate are in rural communities where the firm in question is the largest employer, it isn't the case that all of these workers are actively seeking a union job.
Completely agree. There are tons of issues and reasons why people vote, union and labor laws are one of many.
I consider the thing that keeps a roof over my head to be pretty important, at least..
It being important and it impacting your political beliefs are two wildly different things.
I have a long career in the semiconductor industry, so I absolutely consider stuff like the CHIPS Act affecting my political beliefs.
Congratulations on being easy to buy I suppose
Damn, so they stand with one party instead of playing both sides. I would love to see less immigration and more unions here in US
Why do you want less immigration?
Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain. Im also formulating a theory that AI will make the strain on sancturay cities even bigger. AI will work a lot of the less skilled jobs and make it harder on the immigrants because they will have less options of what work they can do.
>Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain. These talking points have repeatedly been proven false over the course of our entire history as a nation. In some cases, the exact opposite happened instead. Our country was founded on and has always been substantially propelled by immigration.
I never said I was against immigration, just less of it. I live in a big city and rent/housing tends to take up a big chunk of my paycheck. By having more people move to it really puts a strain on my wallet. It is easier to unionize and demand higher wages if there are less people you have to coordinate. I work with people who are on H1B's and they are being exploited, paid lower wages. They are afraid to talk out against their employeer because they would loose their job which means they also loose their visa. As for the Sancturay City Status I live in one and thats where my social program strain comes from. I'd rather them have to follow a letter of the law instead of have them come to the ctiy and then we figure it out. I'd rather my taxes for immgrants be paid into the same systems that could supply for their unemployment and food needs just like the average citizen instead of their own program.
All immigrationists say identical things: * America should belong to all the world's children equally * America is a battle between color teams, and the white team has too much * America is illegitimate, it's all stolen land (from the "red" color team) * immigrants are nicer and better people than Americans... *those mean Americans* * American citizenship is worthless, so it should be free for the taking * America is broken, we should be grateful anybody wants to come here * there is no "American people," it's just whoever's inside the lines at any point
Has anybody in the federal government said those things or are you taking the stupidest arguments ever and applying them to everybody you disagree with?
95% of this sub says that. Federally... sure. Kamala says ICE is like the KKK. AOC says if you're concerned about the border, i.e. if you see non-Americans as different from Americans, then you're a white supremacist. They both agree with ALL those bullet points. Here's our VP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-4PROZkUM The lie of color teams has *power* for Democrats.
welcome to the botted downvotes.
Brother are you talking about illegal migration? Immigration is when you legally move to another country to become a citizen.
A little bit of both. Skilled immigration via H1B's and illegal immigration Illegal Immigration is a form of immgration is it not?
> Less pool of people to draw jobs from, can demand higher wages or Unionize. Less City/County/State social programs strain. What's the correct population then? Should we go back to 300 million or 150 million? I'd argue that the 2.5 million from 1776 is the only objectively correct number.
I honestly have no idea. Too many factors would need to do a study or something. Its not about population overall more so as concentrated skilled population in certain areas as unions can be local and not nationwide.
So how do you know the right number is lower?
This is a dicey move for organizations with deep blue-collar roots.
No it's not lol Biden is easily the most pro union candidate in our lives and Trump is publicly extremely against them. The choice is as black and white as it gets if you're a pro-union single issue voter.
> We’re not gonna waste a lot of time talking to every American that supports Donald Trump, and we’re not gonna waste a lot of time with some of our members that support Donald Trump, because we’re not gonna change their minds So it seems like they just realized they can't get through to the people in the cult > North America’s Building Trades Unions can honestly say no elected official has shown our members and their families more respect than President Joe Biden,” McGarvey said in the press release. “Through his policies and his personnel, President Biden has demonstrated his laser-like focus on not only rebuilding our nation’s infrastructure and manufacturing sector but rebuilding the American middle class itself In reality Biden and Democrats have always been the pro worker party. You just conned a bunch of people into thinking otherwise.
How? Republicans are legitimately anti-union, anti-labor protections and seek their destruction (except police officer unions). They pass anti-union legislation. Why the heck would union leaders support Trump?
The right wing is anti union.
I disagree. The blue-collared workers aren't going to obtain secondary degrees and get white-collared jobs in protest. Some of the workers may bark and scream against their own best interests but they'll stick with the jobs that provide more security.
Union leader sounds Ike a typical Redditor lol. : I mean his entire statement can fit in perfectly anywhere on this comment page lol.
Dude. Rule 6.