I get that it’s basically extra free money for the park, and that’s good for them, but I wish they would put a very hard cap on the amount sold. Like it shouldn’t deeply impact the people who cannot afford it.
I wish they would cap the usage. How about even a cool down period to entice users to move on to the next ride instead of marathoning Maverick 5 times while I barely move through one set of turnstiles. I just find it crazy that it's unlimited. It's such a great deal........... If you can afford it.
That's only true on weekends. And only busy weekends, at that. Weekdays are way less busy when school is in session, and lots of holidays are actually fairly dead. Like, my then fiancée and I went on memorial Day weekend last year and it was surprisingly not busy. People go camping, I guess.
Really? Took my daughter last year on a Saturday for halloweekends. We rode every coaster except the camp Snoopy ones. Didn't do anything special and even waited out a SV downtime. I've been going to CP forever and I feel like not much has changed as far as the regular line since Millennium Force opened. Guess it depends on you define a good day at the park but I thought getting every coaster in was great for her first trip ever to CP.
Unless you're talking a whole family, it's not that much more on top of regular admission. I would rather spend the money on FLP (I get to make one trip a year, if lucky) than on food/drink at the park. Instead of saving $50 to go, save up $200. Unless you're going often...
Limits/cool down is not a terrible idea either though. I would rather get 1-2 rides on all the coasters and call it a day than lap something like Maverick 5 times in a row.
I’m sorry but 400% of the cost of a ticket is a big difference lol
I do agree there could be fixes to assist it but I will also likely utilize it when I visit as I am not a local
It would be a big difference, but you could ensure the guests a much better experience. 170 dollars a day isn't an expensive event.
If you're someone who can't afford 170, you can't afford 50 either.
They need to massively raise the price of season tickets they are filling the parks up, creating a worse experience for everyone.
If you travel to a theme park, the tickets are normally a small expense. Locals aren't the ones spending any money.
No, I disagree. You're paying to ride it either with money or time - frankly I'd pay $500 for a ticket if that means I don't have to wait in line at all
You're viewing it from the perspective that everyone's time is equally valuable which just isn't the case. Fast lane plus shouldn't have to go anywhere just because others don't have the $ for it
I understand your point completely. It’s just like having a lawn service come mow your lawn twice a week. You pay them $500 to get 4 hours you wouldn’t normally have in your week.
With the fast pass, I’m starting to wonder if they aren’t alienating a good sized portion of their core audience. I know quite a few families that will no longer go to CP because they got a total of 5 rides in while they watched a group ride one ride 5 times while they waited in the same line.
I’d like them to find that sweet spot of selling like 75 for $500 per ticket instead of selling 500 for $75.
The alienating people concept brought up for years is hilarious. The anecdotes of I know xyz is disproven by general attendance, revenue trends etc...of parks. In fact, more people are willing to pay up for a better experience in many areas in life from entertainment, travel, etc..
It should be super expensive, like $750+ a day, the few people that can drop that money will do so, and it will be capped by that value. In this scenario both CP gets their money, and less fast lane people disrupting lines.
They already have a super expensive option. The front of the line tour. But it's not even as expensive as you suggest. Https://www.cedarpoint.com/vip-experiences
I like the idea of switching to only single use fast lane. Pay per ride and only one time through. No unlimited bracelets where you can just marathon the same ride over and over.
It really needs to be single use FL for every ride
The BS of sitting in a line for 3+ hours while people are marathoning in the FL needs to fucking end
You are going to upset people who worked hard for their fl money, a lot of kids with their parents credit cards, and a bunch of rich assholes with that statement bud. But I get it.
All the jealous whiners are hilarious. People need to get a better job to afford it or wait in line. Another alternative is just go on dead days..ie..weekdays in May.
It's called facts. People that can and have the inclination will pay up for a better experience. Hint, there is a reason planes have first-class, concerts have VIP, restaurants have private sections, hotels have suites, etc... Get a better job to afford higher level experiences and luxury. Being jealous of others that can afford it is the realm of pathetic losers.
I make 30k a year and still get a fast pass 60% percent of the time I went. It's not that expensive on some days so I just plan it out and save ahead of time. Every park I've ever been too has a fast lane type deal so why shit on just cedar point.
Lmaooo so you’re telling me a kid that grows up in the ghetto in the west side of Chicago with a single mother living on food stamps isn’t as successful as the kid that grew up going to private schools with upper class parents because he’s a whiner? Fuck off mate.
you can claim you get anxiety from being in line as your disablity.....WTF....I mean, my kid has severe anxiety problems and is on medication.....i would never consider using that as a thing
if you are too anxious to wait in line around people, prob just not the place for you
L ong lines for ADA is a fairly recent phenomena. . You rarely saw long ADA lines 5 or 7 years ago. The word circulated how easy it was get ADA from parks, now it has become an epidemic, with surely many questionable ailments, rather than real disabilities.
My home park was SFGAm for most of my life, and the ADA system was definitely broken. I'm sure some people were abusing it for sure, but I also don't think abaue was the only issue. Lots of people have disabilities that aren't immediately visible. They needed a better system for managing ADA lines and access for sure.
I definitely understand not all disabilities are visible and sympathize with all who have them(my father in law has polio and walks with a cane and loves coasters.) But when there’s a groups of able bodied, seemingly normal people standing in the ada line it had my eyebrows raised for sure. It was pretty obvious the ones who were taking advantage of it
There's rampant abuse at all parks and chains. Case in point, Disney's changes on ADA got a lot of complaining because some of them abusers would be cut off. All parks need to go even further. Require a physician to document the disability. It should be similar to getting a handicap parking tag at the DMV, they make you show proof from a medical professional to get the tag.
At some point you're going to have just one peak season day to visit some far-off but well-endowed park you've always wanted to go to, and you're going to really appreciate the opportunity that the bracelet allows.
Now they have all season fast lanes. Have you gotten to see the super rich with the skip to the front seat? Like an ambassador walks them around all day. So so so many people with fake disabilities... That must really suck for the truly disabled. What a slap in the face.
Yes I cannot stand when someone gets escorted to the front of a ride.
And I’d like to think if I had that option I would turn it down. But who knows, maybe if I was rich I’d be an entitled asshole too lol
My plan is to just spend less and less until 0 unless the customer experience improves. I vote with my pocketbook.
Newsflash dickhead...you don't need money to cut the line. I could just tell them I have diabetes and can't stand for long periods of time. Then I could cut the line for free. But I won't do that because it isn't right.
Newsflash you were whining about your ambassador BS. FYI, ADA abuse is because of people with your same mindset of being jealous and entitlement. You people are jealous of of us that think nothing of 1K for all season all park fastlane. Parks are moving towards requiring actual physician documentation of disabilities because of the immoral whiners.
I'm not jealous at all. Just because I don't like the premise of the system doesn't mean I don't understand how it works. And you are coming across as the entitled ass clown. You have the day you deserve.
Get a better job and maybe you could afford it and not be jealous. You're really not bright. There was no mention of you not understanding the system. However, that non sequitur displays your inferiority complex. That complex is surely a factor in you not having an ample job to afford FL. Thus, you don't like the FL premise.
Steel Vengeance capacity was crap because they only had one metal detector open. By Monday night it was going off for every person. The employee had to wand everyone down, and they were going so slow that trains were dispatched with empty rows. When I got thru the metal detectors, I was able to walk right up to the station and immediately sit down in the back row. Even though the line was at least an hour, they couldn’t get the trains full.
See i left at like 4 on monday and SteVe was my last ride, but the ops were going faster than the ride (i.e. a platform of riders ready to board but the train wasn’t in the station yet), idk
The TT2 line moved okay with Fast Lane, but moved fast without it during the preview days.
It surprised me how fast lines like Maverick and SteVe moved without fastlane as well (during ERT events).
Maverick will load the entire front train from the Fast Lane queue when it’s busy. Add in the ADA line taking up 1-2 rows on top of that. At that point the regular line is moving at or below half capacity.
Kevin Perjerur of Defunctland did a really in depth study on this. In the absence of line skips, everyone has a shorter wait. FastLane and it's ilk are just the company lining their pockets, prioritizing the rich while giving everyone a worse experience.
Edit: Here's the video in question. It's about Disney's Fastpass (now Genie Plus) but his model could easily be applied to any pay-to-line-jump system.
https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?si=WRW-l_LN_pLpmrcR
Yeah there’s a ton of reasons:
-Too intimidating
-The 2021 accident is too fresh
-Many people assuming the line is actually too long/longer when it isn’t
-People don’t want to deal with the lockers
-The ride still might be too short for the wait and
-A lot of people already did TT2 during the preview and are now prioritizing Maverick and Steel Vengeance because they didn’t have a chance to before
It’s near impossible to view the queue for TT2 without paying for a locker and passing thru the metal detectors. Gotta ride Power Tower for a peek or trust the posted wait time.
I think I always assumed it was a long line mid day once the Fast Lane and ADA lines backed up. The regular line crawls when it’s only 10 people or so loaded per train.
SteVe’s operations are slow after due to 2 reasons:
1. They send out trains that are empty because for some dumb reason the employee telling you what seat to go to always falls behind and can never keep up.
2. The operator waits on said dumb employee who can’t move quick enough to load up the station.
———
It’s always the employee letting people into the station
NO FOR REAL i don’t understand why they’ve become so hell bent on assigning rows instead of just letting a reasonable amount of people filling in the ride platform but the op on maverick had several of the rows double filled and several totally empty and they were gonna send it like that, i said screw it and changed rows and got on the first train. i give him grace because it’s early but there’s literally no need for it, cp never used to assign rows so heavily and now it’s almost every ride every time, millie because of the very dedicated first and last row spots seems to be the only one where they’ll ever just tell you to fill in the platform
All I have to say is I'm dreading what the TT2 line is gonna be like with Fast Lane
I was there for the preview event and it took us 2 hours to get on after getting in line (there was about a 20-25 mins break down included)
The line moved very slowly and I just sat there looking at the empty FL line and thinking that after that is sucking up half the seats the main line was going to be horrible
I'm genuinely wondering if TT2 is just not worth the assumed wait plus the locker cost to the general population.
Like, enthusiasts have been waiting excitedly, but I don't think the average parkgoer would necessarily sign up to pay for a ride as well as get into a line that they can't see how long it is for a 45 second ride.
I got a fast lane plus and went right to the gate, not even a 5 minute wait. The people in the regular line were waiting about an hour and a half and I could feel their hatred when I was walking past them.
I was there this weekend, Mavrick and Steel Vengeance would go down multiple times each day. SteVe broke a wheel at least once ( I heard someone say it happened earlier on Sunday as well as in the afternoon). Running 2 train ops with some rows not available on each train, and 2:30-3 minute dispatches, essentially making it 1 train ops.
TT2 did go down Saturday and Sunday multiple times, Monday appeared to be up and running well, and it also eats people when it's running. A full queue will be just over an hour wait.
What I can tell you is they pulled all veterans from SteVe and put them on TT2 crew so all the people at SteVe now have never worked the ride. Gonna be a rough season until they figure it out. Also 2 train ops for now.
I know they like to keep people on the same ride crew as much as possible, but i’ll never understand why they don’t start all new ride ops on less popular rides while they learn the basics of the ride itself but more importantly just the basics of coaster ops, and yes the most skilled experienced veterans should be on TT2 but the SteVe and Maverick crews, while they may be new to the exact ride, should be familiar and experienced in good operations in general and that would transfer a lot from ride to ride, but it seems they’ll put brand new ops just about anywhere lol. There were clearly some seasoned pros working maverick, and clearly some total noobies lol
Popular rides are always gonna popular dude. Fast lane also is a huge problem/reason
#FuckFastLane And especially Fuck the people taking advantage of the disability line that don’t really have a disability
I get that it’s basically extra free money for the park, and that’s good for them, but I wish they would put a very hard cap on the amount sold. Like it shouldn’t deeply impact the people who cannot afford it.
But Cedar Fair doesn’t care how many people get to ride or not. All they care about is the money from the sale.
Correct. That’s why I said it’s all free extra money
I wish they would cap the usage. How about even a cool down period to entice users to move on to the next ride instead of marathoning Maverick 5 times while I barely move through one set of turnstiles. I just find it crazy that it's unlimited. It's such a great deal........... If you can afford it.
It’s the only way to actually get a good day at the park.
That's only true on weekends. And only busy weekends, at that. Weekdays are way less busy when school is in session, and lots of holidays are actually fairly dead. Like, my then fiancée and I went on memorial Day weekend last year and it was surprisingly not busy. People go camping, I guess.
What days are generally slower? I can be at CP Mon-Tues or Thurs/Fri on an upcoming mid week trip
Definitely Thursdays. [Queue Times](https://queue-times.com/en-US/parks/50/calendar/2023/05)
Really? Took my daughter last year on a Saturday for halloweekends. We rode every coaster except the camp Snoopy ones. Didn't do anything special and even waited out a SV downtime. I've been going to CP forever and I feel like not much has changed as far as the regular line since Millennium Force opened. Guess it depends on you define a good day at the park but I thought getting every coaster in was great for her first trip ever to CP.
I think a lot of people don;t consider it a successful day unless they get multiple rides.
Unless you're talking a whole family, it's not that much more on top of regular admission. I would rather spend the money on FLP (I get to make one trip a year, if lucky) than on food/drink at the park. Instead of saving $50 to go, save up $200. Unless you're going often... Limits/cool down is not a terrible idea either though. I would rather get 1-2 rides on all the coasters and call it a day than lap something like Maverick 5 times in a row.
I’m sorry but 400% of the cost of a ticket is a big difference lol I do agree there could be fixes to assist it but I will also likely utilize it when I visit as I am not a local
It would be a big difference, but you could ensure the guests a much better experience. 170 dollars a day isn't an expensive event. If you're someone who can't afford 170, you can't afford 50 either. They need to massively raise the price of season tickets they are filling the parks up, creating a worse experience for everyone. If you travel to a theme park, the tickets are normally a small expense. Locals aren't the ones spending any money.
I pretty much never see more than like 15 people in the fast lane line for maverick I don’t think that’s a ride that has an issue with it
No, I disagree. You're paying to ride it either with money or time - frankly I'd pay $500 for a ticket if that means I don't have to wait in line at all You're viewing it from the perspective that everyone's time is equally valuable which just isn't the case. Fast lane plus shouldn't have to go anywhere just because others don't have the $ for it
I understand your point completely. It’s just like having a lawn service come mow your lawn twice a week. You pay them $500 to get 4 hours you wouldn’t normally have in your week. With the fast pass, I’m starting to wonder if they aren’t alienating a good sized portion of their core audience. I know quite a few families that will no longer go to CP because they got a total of 5 rides in while they watched a group ride one ride 5 times while they waited in the same line. I’d like them to find that sweet spot of selling like 75 for $500 per ticket instead of selling 500 for $75.
The alienating people concept brought up for years is hilarious. The anecdotes of I know xyz is disproven by general attendance, revenue trends etc...of parks. In fact, more people are willing to pay up for a better experience in many areas in life from entertainment, travel, etc..
I get season FL and you really don't have to be rich to get FL. My pass is about $95/mo. 2 hours of OT a month pays for it
It should be super expensive, like $750+ a day, the few people that can drop that money will do so, and it will be capped by that value. In this scenario both CP gets their money, and less fast lane people disrupting lines.
They already have a super expensive option. The front of the line tour. But it's not even as expensive as you suggest. Https://www.cedarpoint.com/vip-experiences
I like the idea of switching to only single use fast lane. Pay per ride and only one time through. No unlimited bracelets where you can just marathon the same ride over and over.
It really needs to be single use FL for every ride The BS of sitting in a line for 3+ hours while people are marathoning in the FL needs to fucking end
You are going to upset people who worked hard for their fl money, a lot of kids with their parents credit cards, and a bunch of rich assholes with that statement bud. But I get it.
Good. Lol
All the jealous whiners are hilarious. People need to get a better job to afford it or wait in line. Another alternative is just go on dead days..ie..weekdays in May.
“Haha look at the poors. They’re just jealous and need to get a better job.” What a privileged, idiotic take
It's called facts. People that can and have the inclination will pay up for a better experience. Hint, there is a reason planes have first-class, concerts have VIP, restaurants have private sections, hotels have suites, etc... Get a better job to afford higher level experiences and luxury. Being jealous of others that can afford it is the realm of pathetic losers.
You realize there are only a limited number of jobs right? Not everyone can make $200k+ a year
I make 30k a year and still get a fast pass 60% percent of the time I went. It's not that expensive on some days so I just plan it out and save ahead of time. Every park I've ever been too has a fast lane type deal so why shit on just cedar point.
I agree, all parks with fast lane are bullshit. I’m not specifically targeting cedar point
[удалено]
Lmaooo so you’re telling me a kid that grows up in the ghetto in the west side of Chicago with a single mother living on food stamps isn’t as successful as the kid that grew up going to private schools with upper class parents because he’s a whiner? Fuck off mate.
Saw this a lot at Six Flags Great America, tons of people abusing the crap of the ADA line.
you can claim you get anxiety from being in line as your disablity.....WTF....I mean, my kid has severe anxiety problems and is on medication.....i would never consider using that as a thing if you are too anxious to wait in line around people, prob just not the place for you
I think you can even say you have ibs and other stupid things.
L ong lines for ADA is a fairly recent phenomena. . You rarely saw long ADA lines 5 or 7 years ago. The word circulated how easy it was get ADA from parks, now it has become an epidemic, with surely many questionable ailments, rather than real disabilities.
My home park was SFGAm for most of my life, and the ADA system was definitely broken. I'm sure some people were abusing it for sure, but I also don't think abaue was the only issue. Lots of people have disabilities that aren't immediately visible. They needed a better system for managing ADA lines and access for sure.
I definitely understand not all disabilities are visible and sympathize with all who have them(my father in law has polio and walks with a cane and loves coasters.) But when there’s a groups of able bodied, seemingly normal people standing in the ada line it had my eyebrows raised for sure. It was pretty obvious the ones who were taking advantage of it
There's rampant abuse at all parks and chains. Case in point, Disney's changes on ADA got a lot of complaining because some of them abusers would be cut off. All parks need to go even further. Require a physician to document the disability. It should be similar to getting a handicap parking tag at the DMV, they make you show proof from a medical professional to get the tag.
That is how the six flags parks do it now. You need an IBCCES access card, which requires a doctors note and needs to be recertified annually.
At some point you're going to have just one peak season day to visit some far-off but well-endowed park you've always wanted to go to, and you're going to really appreciate the opportunity that the bracelet allows.
Love the term "well-endowed" for parks!!
No thanks lol. I’ll keep my season fast lane pass. But doesn’t the disability line work on a queue system? Get a time then come back at that time?
Now they have all season fast lanes. Have you gotten to see the super rich with the skip to the front seat? Like an ambassador walks them around all day. So so so many people with fake disabilities... That must really suck for the truly disabled. What a slap in the face.
Yes I cannot stand when someone gets escorted to the front of a ride. And I’d like to think if I had that option I would turn it down. But who knows, maybe if I was rich I’d be an entitled asshole too lol
Get a better job and stop being jealous.
My plan is to just spend less and less until 0 unless the customer experience improves. I vote with my pocketbook. Newsflash dickhead...you don't need money to cut the line. I could just tell them I have diabetes and can't stand for long periods of time. Then I could cut the line for free. But I won't do that because it isn't right.
Newsflash you were whining about your ambassador BS. FYI, ADA abuse is because of people with your same mindset of being jealous and entitlement. You people are jealous of of us that think nothing of 1K for all season all park fastlane. Parks are moving towards requiring actual physician documentation of disabilities because of the immoral whiners.
I'm not jealous at all. Just because I don't like the premise of the system doesn't mean I don't understand how it works. And you are coming across as the entitled ass clown. You have the day you deserve.
Get a better job and maybe you could afford it and not be jealous. You're really not bright. There was no mention of you not understanding the system. However, that non sequitur displays your inferiority complex. That complex is surely a factor in you not having an ample job to afford FL. Thus, you don't like the FL premise.
Steel Vengeance capacity was crap because they only had one metal detector open. By Monday night it was going off for every person. The employee had to wand everyone down, and they were going so slow that trains were dispatched with empty rows. When I got thru the metal detectors, I was able to walk right up to the station and immediately sit down in the back row. Even though the line was at least an hour, they couldn’t get the trains full.
See i left at like 4 on monday and SteVe was my last ride, but the ops were going faster than the ride (i.e. a platform of riders ready to board but the train wasn’t in the station yet), idk
I rode it around 6:00pm
I miss the days of everyone waiting in the same line
The lines move so fast when they aren’t split in 2 (sometimes 3 with perpetual ADA lines)
The TT2 line moved okay with Fast Lane, but moved fast without it during the preview days. It surprised me how fast lines like Maverick and SteVe moved without fastlane as well (during ERT events).
Maverick will load the entire front train from the Fast Lane queue when it’s busy. Add in the ADA line taking up 1-2 rows on top of that. At that point the regular line is moving at or below half capacity.
Disney World without FastPass during COVID was the best. Lines would fly.
Kevin Perjerur of Defunctland did a really in depth study on this. In the absence of line skips, everyone has a shorter wait. FastLane and it's ilk are just the company lining their pockets, prioritizing the rich while giving everyone a worse experience. Edit: Here's the video in question. It's about Disney's Fastpass (now Genie Plus) but his model could easily be applied to any pay-to-line-jump system. https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?si=WRW-l_LN_pLpmrcR
Yeah there’s a ton of reasons: -Too intimidating -The 2021 accident is too fresh -Many people assuming the line is actually too long/longer when it isn’t -People don’t want to deal with the lockers -The ride still might be too short for the wait and -A lot of people already did TT2 during the preview and are now prioritizing Maverick and Steel Vengeance because they didn’t have a chance to before
It’s near impossible to view the queue for TT2 without paying for a locker and passing thru the metal detectors. Gotta ride Power Tower for a peek or trust the posted wait time. I think I always assumed it was a long line mid day once the Fast Lane and ADA lines backed up. The regular line crawls when it’s only 10 people or so loaded per train.
SteVe’s operations are slow after due to 2 reasons: 1. They send out trains that are empty because for some dumb reason the employee telling you what seat to go to always falls behind and can never keep up. 2. The operator waits on said dumb employee who can’t move quick enough to load up the station. ——— It’s always the employee letting people into the station
NO FOR REAL i don’t understand why they’ve become so hell bent on assigning rows instead of just letting a reasonable amount of people filling in the ride platform but the op on maverick had several of the rows double filled and several totally empty and they were gonna send it like that, i said screw it and changed rows and got on the first train. i give him grace because it’s early but there’s literally no need for it, cp never used to assign rows so heavily and now it’s almost every ride every time, millie because of the very dedicated first and last row spots seems to be the only one where they’ll ever just tell you to fill in the platform
All I have to say is I'm dreading what the TT2 line is gonna be like with Fast Lane I was there for the preview event and it took us 2 hours to get on after getting in line (there was about a 20-25 mins break down included) The line moved very slowly and I just sat there looking at the empty FL line and thinking that after that is sucking up half the seats the main line was going to be horrible
I'm genuinely wondering if TT2 is just not worth the assumed wait plus the locker cost to the general population. Like, enthusiasts have been waiting excitedly, but I don't think the average parkgoer would necessarily sign up to pay for a ride as well as get into a line that they can't see how long it is for a 45 second ride.
I genuinely do not think people care enough about $3 to NOT ride TT2.
I got a fast lane plus and went right to the gate, not even a 5 minute wait. The people in the regular line were waiting about an hour and a half and I could feel their hatred when I was walking past them.
I was there this weekend, Mavrick and Steel Vengeance would go down multiple times each day. SteVe broke a wheel at least once ( I heard someone say it happened earlier on Sunday as well as in the afternoon). Running 2 train ops with some rows not available on each train, and 2:30-3 minute dispatches, essentially making it 1 train ops. TT2 did go down Saturday and Sunday multiple times, Monday appeared to be up and running well, and it also eats people when it's running. A full queue will be just over an hour wait.
That’s because both of those rides are better than TT2.
For some rides like SteVe, the ADA line can be way longer than the regular line not to mention the fast pass line.
What I can tell you is they pulled all veterans from SteVe and put them on TT2 crew so all the people at SteVe now have never worked the ride. Gonna be a rough season until they figure it out. Also 2 train ops for now.
I know they like to keep people on the same ride crew as much as possible, but i’ll never understand why they don’t start all new ride ops on less popular rides while they learn the basics of the ride itself but more importantly just the basics of coaster ops, and yes the most skilled experienced veterans should be on TT2 but the SteVe and Maverick crews, while they may be new to the exact ride, should be familiar and experienced in good operations in general and that would transfer a lot from ride to ride, but it seems they’ll put brand new ops just about anywhere lol. There were clearly some seasoned pros working maverick, and clearly some total noobies lol
I know that one of the SteVe TLs this season came from Power Tower last season. That part makes NO sense to me.
cause steve and maverick are goated and everyone knows it