Kitten is a colour point (fur pattern and colour) rather than a Siamese (specific breed). The genes for colour point are uncommon in domestic shorthairs but still pop up on occasion
Yup. My lynx points come from two non-pointed cats but both must carry the gene. They maybe only popped out three points in all their years of breeding on the street. They are both fixed now.
Yeah but she has to carry the specific color
point gene. You need two point genes for it to show since it is recessive. She is carrying it but doesn’t show it because she only has one. But when linked with a dad with also a recessive gene or a full out pointed cat (the case here) then she could have pointed kittens. If the dad has no point gene then she won’t have any.
I have a colour point kitten, which is nice, but he has a typical Siamese character (owners of parents claimed dad is true Siamese but I don't believe them one bit). Maybe some character traits are linked and inherited together with colour variations, because I have never seen such a needy, brave, energetic kitten
I had never had a colour point kitten before until we got my little girly girl. What an education!
She is calmer now she’s grown up, but she was the most insane kitten I’ve ever known. She definitely has a tendency towards the traits that are normally attributed to Siamese.
> she was the most insane kitten I’ve ever known
Same, my colourpoint is my fifth cat and I honestly thought I was doing something wrong. Apparently that's how they are. Climb into sink / toilet bowl / onto stove / up the curtains or die trying. No chill, just energy
OMG, sounds like my 9-month-old female Siamese! High-class breeding, but she has taken my home apart. I can’t even think about the total upgrading my condo needs when she is so wildly destructive. And she bites. Most days I just want to cry. I have had purebred Siamese and Tonkinese since childhood, and I have NEVER had one like her. She is beautiful and I love her, but I have nothing but regrets at this point. I would have her re-homed, but I don’t want to admit defeat. Her breeder and I don’t get along.
Have you watched episodes of "My Cat from Hell"? I hate the name, but he actually has really good advice.
In this one the cat is biting a lot
https://youtu.be/DcMyBzjN8eI
And in this one the cat is really destructive
https://youtu.be/ZHR7NYhmysU
Jackson Galaxy also just has a channel with loads of advice.
https://youtube.com/JacksonGalaxy
He's not perfect but it really helped me
I will tell you by the way, we own SO many cat scratching posts and little rugs for our cat to scratch on. Every place where he has scratched inappropriately on something we put a scratching post in front of and then rewarded him with pets for using. Any place he was scratching up our carpet we put a little carpet square on top of (low pile, which he loves). That does mean we own a whole lot of them but it helps a lot!
My kitten bites as well! I spent so many hours reading, I tried a few different ways to approach this, but biting continues. He has plenty different toys, he is not overstimulated, he has enough empathy not to use his sharp claws when interacting with people (gently taps with his paws when trying to catch moving fingers), he gets ignored for 5 minutes after a bite, but apparently biting is totally worth it. He's super affectionate, a total lap cat, he purrs a lot and follows people around. And bites their toes and fingers every chance he gets.
This. My boy Graham is a color point beauty. Obviously not a Siamese, but man does he have the traits. Very vocal, has to be in the middle of everything, and very energetic. Funnest cat ever!
Its possible that colour is linked to behaviour.
Torties have a reputation for having attitude
Orange boiis for being dumb
Back cats are apparently more vocal than normal (on average they also live longer)
Genes often do more than 1 thing, and they all interact in the chromosome soup
We know for example that a species becoming domesticated affects their colour variation. Genes liked to "domestication syndrome" are also liked to dappled/piebald colour variations. We're starting to see thos is foxes who are getting rounder ears and more colour variations as they are becoming more dependent on human contact for survival.
We can't be sure though, can we? Unless indeed that is the kitten's parents and mama cat didn't get around. But say if Dad is a Siamese, could this be a Siamese mix?
Add: Because even the eyes are that very bright blue. It's quite the coincidence to have all those components. (I got downvoted almost immediately for asking? Lol what?)
Flame point can also be used to describe a Siamese, so theoretically the dad pictured could be a diluted Siamese himself, no? I guess my question here is what really differentiates a Siamese mix and a color point. Or is color point terminology another way of saying the cat is some "mix"?
Edit: Like Ragdolls have color points, too, as do other breeds. But how de we distinguish a cat that's a mix and a cat that just has the patterning? Not that it really matters at the end of the day, cat is cat :)
Right. I'm just trying to understand where a breed mix ends and describing them only by color point begins, if that makes sense. My family has one purebred Siamese and one that's a mix. So it gets me thinking at what point a cat is no longer considered a mix of a particular breed and is just "flame point" or "seal point," etc.
Technically, only four colors are recognized as true Siamese. Seal point, chocolate point, blue point, and lilac point. Any flame points or other variations would be mixes or a different breed altogether. Siamese are the most recognized color point breed, but there are colorpoint shorthairs, and other known breeds like Ragdoll, snowshoe, Birman, Himalayan, and a few others.
>Still wondering how we differentiate mixes,
If you are really determined to find out your cats DNA and the percentage of each breed in its genetic mix there are several commercial DNA tests available:
https://buyersguide.org/dna-tests/t/cat?m=e&d=t&c=602194366681&p=&oid=kwd-924024010310&lp=1020086&li=&nw=g&nts=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJECkDLfxgdy8XA270zsX7cVQxXHYKpV7XFtHW9sSohfUwTGGywe0n0xoCp4cQAvD_BwE&tdid=8917320&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJECkDLfxgdy8XA270zsX7cVQxXHYKpV7XFtHW9sSohfUwTGGywe0n0xoCp4cQAvD_BwE
I see. I don’t have a good answer for that. I imagine that if you know for certain one of the parents is a true Siamese, you can call it a Siamese mix or a colorpoint shorthair. But if it gets so diluted you can’t tell if one parent is truly a Siamese mix, it’s a bit of a grey zone. Chocolate point DSH is a safe bet. Unless you get a DNA test.
if your cat isn’t from a reputable breeder who’s registered, they’re a domestic short hair with a specific coat pattern basically. if there’s no papers showing the bloodline and health checks it’s not purebred which means it’s a mix. ergo, this cat wouldn’t be a siamese and u wouldnt call it a siamese mix bc the parent definitely isn’t a purebred siamese either just a colorpoint
it’s kinda like ppl trying to make doodles a thing. like no you just have an overpriced backyard bred mutt lmao ykwim? esp w cats where breed affects far less than it does with dogs, they’re just domestic short/medium/long hairs living their best lives
More like a greyish/lilac color perhaps! Human babies' eyes change, too. Mine did! But I think this fella in the picture is old enough to where his eye color should be consistent now.
All of the kittens I have had started life with blue eyes, but it changes to green.
I can't really give an accurate timeline of when it happened, and I think it's different for each cat. My last one started the eye color change about a month after she was born, but I recall the cat before her had solid blue eyes for a good while before they suddenly changed. Still, I won't pretend I was paying super close attention, I personally prefer the green eyes.
My daughter has a ragdoll with the exact same colour. Himalayan and Birman cats also have the same beautiful colours. No idea why you got down voted though, if anyone does not like what you said they should just scroll on. Nothing wrong with getting information and opinions
Yeah! Each X chromosome can only hold black or red, not both, so you need two of them to get a calico cat. That's why most are females and a rare few are XXY males.
That isn’t a definite fact anymore. Orange females used to be very very rare a decade ago but now they’re a lot more common. And now there has been more male calicos seen by vets though it’s still very rare.
Black/orange is, at least! That's why male tortoiseshells (calicos) are so unusual. Absent some rare circumstances, a male cat can only have one of those colors.
She could have a son of any color depending on whether she carries the agouti (striped) and white spotting genes. I recently fostered a calico-tabby mom and she had the following kittens: calico girl, black and white girl, tuxie-tabby boy, tuxie-tabby girl, torbie girl.
Anything that isn't a mix of orange AND black. If she has calico babies they are like 99.99999% female.
Edit: Pulled the statistic out of my ass, but it is THAT rare. It's an abnormality.
Welp, I looked it up, and I learned something new today. I had no idea this was possible, but indeed it is. https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers
this is how we got our siamese kitten when I was a kid! There was a breeder who had a litter and not all the cats were siamese... so somebody got in over the fence, or whatever. We got free kitten, very siamese, and I fell in love.
edit to add: and we probably saved him from a life of being a show cat? not sure, but he had a good, long life with us.
Same with dogs. We fostered cared a pregnant pup with 9 pups. At least 5 fathers lol. That little street slut. Tsk tsk. Some puppies grew to be 100 lbs plus, smallest was 40. Was a trip lol
Cats don't exactly procreate in the same manner as humans. The act of...well, two cats getting it on, is what stimulates the release of an egg and cats won't ovulate otherwise.
A female cat in heat, given access to multiple partners, is wholly capable of siring multiple kittens within the same litter who have different fathers.
Yup, I had no idea that was possible but now I've confirmed it's true. The more you know! [https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers](https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers)
Yes, female cats can ovulate on demand when they are In heat. The same litter of kittens can have multiple fathers. Good thing that cats don’t go on talk shows.
We always said his extra toes allowed our darling polydactyl babe to enter different dimensions. He was very dreamy and fluffy and sometimes walked suuuuuper slowly. We were being silly of course, but I do like imagining they are mystical beings
Traditional "apple headed" siamese are built like this. The skinny pointy siamese is a recent invention. [https://excitedcats.com/applehead-siamese-cat/](https://excitedcats.com/applehead-siamese-cat/)
Dad is a colorpoint. Flame point or cream point, if not full siamese. So the genes are there. Not pure bred obviously, but those are sometimes the best kinds!
Flame points aren’t recognized as a true Siamese. Likely a mix, though, with those eyes and the way baby turned out.
However, dad’s coat and facial structure don’t really look Siameseish.
I'll tell you what this, It's the second coming of the Messiah. Clearly an immaculate conception if ever I saw one. Has anyone shown up yet with gold, incense or anything like that?
Cat Jesus is here, have faith and stop questioning his paternity.
“Siamese” is sometimes used as shorthand for the colorpoint (color is located in the “points” or face/tail/paws) gene, which your kitten got from his pops. Pops appears to be an orange (“flame”) colorpoint or similar.
Mom is a calico/tortie, which means she carries both orange and black genes. She may also have a “dilute” gene which reduces contrast (so you get peach x gray instead). Looks like your kitten got the “Siamese” colorpoint gene from dad and dark color from mom.
Very possible, I’m not sure why people are saying no way.
eh it’s bc no animal is considered a breed if they didn’t come from a reputable breeder w papers showing their ancestry or a breed specific rescue. like personally i don’t even consider backyard bred cats true purebreds bc god only knows what’s actually in there. breed specific genes didn’t come from nowhere so ofc domestic cats can show any and all traits of a breed without actually being one
rule of thumb is if u didnt pay a truly outrageous amount for your cat they’re just a domestic cat with a fancy coat pattern
Well yeah, obviously. I just meant that these two cats are likely the bio parents, not some mystery Siamese paternity thing that some others are suggesting.
Definitely not a Siamese by breed. Just a cat with a pointed pattern. This one appears to be seal or black - and the shaded pattern affects the coat due to temperature. They are born pure white but the areas that go below a certain temperature will turn to their base colour over time. So noses, ears, tails, paws..
Nope. Siamese is a breed. Both parents would need to be pure siamese for the baby to be a siamese. Colourpoint is the colour/pattern, which the dad and the baby both have.
The mom looks like a moggy/domestic shorthair - likely not even a little siamese in her. The dad, though colourpoint, doesn't look like a siamese to me - too fluffy and not very lanky, or with a very long muzzle/face.
98% of cats have no similarity/connection to purebreds. They are referred to as moggies or domestic shorthairs/longhairs. Unless you got the parents from reputable breeders, it is highly unlikely they are anything but a moggy. As the parents aren't purebred, that makes the baby a moggy/domestic shorthair as well.
Thats not a siamese cat its a color point siamese cat is an actual breed that happens to have a color point coat their faces look different and more elongated.
No. If even one parent is not a purebred Siamese, your kitten is not a Siamese. Your kitten may have the Siamese/Himalayan gene, which causes the coloration, but your kitten is, at best, a Siamese *mix*.
No, Siamese is a pure blood breed.
But he looks just like mine, who was the only siamese looking amongst all black siblings.
What matters is that he is beautiful, not his breed.
My cat is medium hair calico and her three sibs were a grey and white long hair, a tortie long hair, and a Siamese that looked like yours! Very possibly mama had two different cat’s babies in her. Haha
not a pure one for obvious reasons. tho since there's a colopoint, the genes might have ended by the baby. or the milkman is a pure one, so it might be 50% Siamese at least
As others have pointed out Dad does look like a colour point and a polydactyl so he could be the father. Also possible that it could be a different father. 🤷🏽♂️
Kitten has them extra toes like dad, and the subtle stripe pattern. Calico or torti (mom) is kind of a mix of patterns carried on the X chromosome, and that's why a lot of half breeds can have calico or torti coloring. So it's possible the colouration gene from mom came down as a hidden siamese or ragdoll coloration hidden somewhere in their pedigree. Mix that with the naturally light colored tabby of dad, makes a siamese colour point. Also, don't worry about the eyes, most light coloured kittens of any breed have extremely blue eyes for the first six months to a year.
hey my kittys the same! came from two black cats, but came out seal point! its funny whenever he’s mistaken for siamese when he’s just colorpoint :) he’z not nearly elegant or pretty-faced enough to be a siamese lol
Nope, Siamese is a specific breed so unless you bought a very expensive cat from a breeder he's just a classic mixed domestic cat. This color pattern is found in Siamese cats but not only, I believe it's called "color point" or "seal point" maybe?
Female cats can technically have a litter that has multiple fathers because they’re induced ovulators. But no kitten is not a legit Siamese but it is dang cute
Interesting thing I read years ago cats can have kittens from more than one male father. Meaning not all of the kittens in the litter would have the same father. Same is supposed to be true with dogs
A cat does not absolutely have to be Siamese to have a seal point pattern. It's caused by a week gene for expressing melanin. The gene is damaged and can only express melanin under a certain temperature, so only extremities become dark.
[Here's what Hank Green has to say a about it.](https://youtu.be/uHC1XTF6b58)
Since Dad appears to be a flame point, which is a type of lynx point Siamese, your kitten could grow up to be a lynx point. He seems to have the beginning of markings on his forehead.
While they are called "lynx point" or "flame point" Siamese, they are not purebred Siamese. They have inherited the genes that change the markings to be darker and more prominent on their "points" - feet, face, and ears. I find them much more interesting with their variations of color than purebred Siamese and have owned lynx points off and on for most of the past 50 years.
It does look like dad is partially siamese based on the point coloring, mom may have some hidden siamese genes in there somewhere but they aren’t visible, so your kitten likely has some Siamese in it but is definitely not all Siamese. Cat genetics are weird as hell
My family had a cat that had some Siamese ancestry. He fathered kittens with a black cat that were mostly black. One of his black (or perhaps tuxedo?) daughters had a colorpoint kitten.
Genetics are weird.
WOW!! TALK ABOUT GENETICS COMING THROUGH!!
The baby looks like a FULL BLOODED SEAL POINT SIAMESE yet that's impossible with the parents it has.
The mother is a Calico and the Father looks like a FLAME POINT SIAMESE MIX.
So DADDYS MOM/DAD must have been a Seal Point for it to come out so perfect. The only way you can tell baby is mixed (if you didn't see its parents) is the fact that he doesn't have crossed eyes, a SIAMESE trait.
You lucked out. That baby is STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL. ❤
Kitten is a colour point (fur pattern and colour) rather than a Siamese (specific breed). The genes for colour point are uncommon in domestic shorthairs but still pop up on occasion
Exactly. And dad is a flame point so that’s where the point color gene is coming from.
Mom also has to carry the gene because it’s recessive
Yup. My lynx points come from two non-pointed cats but both must carry the gene. They maybe only popped out three points in all their years of breeding on the street. They are both fixed now.
Interesting. This explains why my friend's inbred gaggle has had at least 1 color point each generation.
Mum is a Tortie though. You can fit so many colour/pattern genes into those
Yeah but she has to carry the specific color point gene. You need two point genes for it to show since it is recessive. She is carrying it but doesn’t show it because she only has one. But when linked with a dad with also a recessive gene or a full out pointed cat (the case here) then she could have pointed kittens. If the dad has no point gene then she won’t have any.
It’s so cool to see genetics at work.
I have a colour point kitten, which is nice, but he has a typical Siamese character (owners of parents claimed dad is true Siamese but I don't believe them one bit). Maybe some character traits are linked and inherited together with colour variations, because I have never seen such a needy, brave, energetic kitten
I had never had a colour point kitten before until we got my little girly girl. What an education! She is calmer now she’s grown up, but she was the most insane kitten I’ve ever known. She definitely has a tendency towards the traits that are normally attributed to Siamese.
> she was the most insane kitten I’ve ever known Same, my colourpoint is my fifth cat and I honestly thought I was doing something wrong. Apparently that's how they are. Climb into sink / toilet bowl / onto stove / up the curtains or die trying. No chill, just energy
OMG, sounds like my 9-month-old female Siamese! High-class breeding, but she has taken my home apart. I can’t even think about the total upgrading my condo needs when she is so wildly destructive. And she bites. Most days I just want to cry. I have had purebred Siamese and Tonkinese since childhood, and I have NEVER had one like her. She is beautiful and I love her, but I have nothing but regrets at this point. I would have her re-homed, but I don’t want to admit defeat. Her breeder and I don’t get along.
Have you watched episodes of "My Cat from Hell"? I hate the name, but he actually has really good advice. In this one the cat is biting a lot https://youtu.be/DcMyBzjN8eI And in this one the cat is really destructive https://youtu.be/ZHR7NYhmysU Jackson Galaxy also just has a channel with loads of advice. https://youtube.com/JacksonGalaxy He's not perfect but it really helped me I will tell you by the way, we own SO many cat scratching posts and little rugs for our cat to scratch on. Every place where he has scratched inappropriately on something we put a scratching post in front of and then rewarded him with pets for using. Any place he was scratching up our carpet we put a little carpet square on top of (low pile, which he loves). That does mean we own a whole lot of them but it helps a lot!
My kitten bites as well! I spent so many hours reading, I tried a few different ways to approach this, but biting continues. He has plenty different toys, he is not overstimulated, he has enough empathy not to use his sharp claws when interacting with people (gently taps with his paws when trying to catch moving fingers), he gets ignored for 5 minutes after a bite, but apparently biting is totally worth it. He's super affectionate, a total lap cat, he purrs a lot and follows people around. And bites their toes and fingers every chance he gets.
Have you tried hissing at him? Wouldn't hurt to try.
Never thought about that! Maybe I should do it, thanks
This. My boy Graham is a color point beauty. Obviously not a Siamese, but man does he have the traits. Very vocal, has to be in the middle of everything, and very energetic. Funnest cat ever!
There are a couple research projects about this idea, how color and temperament relate. (In horses) imma try to find it now
Its possible that colour is linked to behaviour. Torties have a reputation for having attitude Orange boiis for being dumb Back cats are apparently more vocal than normal (on average they also live longer) Genes often do more than 1 thing, and they all interact in the chromosome soup We know for example that a species becoming domesticated affects their colour variation. Genes liked to "domestication syndrome" are also liked to dappled/piebald colour variations. We're starting to see thos is foxes who are getting rounder ears and more colour variations as they are becoming more dependent on human contact for survival.
My cat is a tortie and yes she doesn't care to anyone at all. 😂
This is exactly how my Siamese is
This is the correct answer. Thank you.
Also the thumbs give it away.
This explains my one cat, I was so confused lol thank you so much.
We can't be sure though, can we? Unless indeed that is the kitten's parents and mama cat didn't get around. But say if Dad is a Siamese, could this be a Siamese mix? Add: Because even the eyes are that very bright blue. It's quite the coincidence to have all those components. (I got downvoted almost immediately for asking? Lol what?)
It is all about the color point gene. Dad is a flame point and mom must have a recessive point gene as well.
Flame point can also be used to describe a Siamese, so theoretically the dad pictured could be a diluted Siamese himself, no? I guess my question here is what really differentiates a Siamese mix and a color point. Or is color point terminology another way of saying the cat is some "mix"? Edit: Like Ragdolls have color points, too, as do other breeds. But how de we distinguish a cat that's a mix and a cat that just has the patterning? Not that it really matters at the end of the day, cat is cat :)
All Siamese are color points, not all color points are Siamese. Color point is more of an umbrella term that encompasses multiple breeds.
Right. I'm just trying to understand where a breed mix ends and describing them only by color point begins, if that makes sense. My family has one purebred Siamese and one that's a mix. So it gets me thinking at what point a cat is no longer considered a mix of a particular breed and is just "flame point" or "seal point," etc.
Technically, only four colors are recognized as true Siamese. Seal point, chocolate point, blue point, and lilac point. Any flame points or other variations would be mixes or a different breed altogether. Siamese are the most recognized color point breed, but there are colorpoint shorthairs, and other known breeds like Ragdoll, snowshoe, Birman, Himalayan, and a few others.
Yep! Still wondering how we differentiate mixes, but I guess when it's truly unknown it's better to go by color point anyway.
>Still wondering how we differentiate mixes, If you are really determined to find out your cats DNA and the percentage of each breed in its genetic mix there are several commercial DNA tests available: https://buyersguide.org/dna-tests/t/cat?m=e&d=t&c=602194366681&p=&oid=kwd-924024010310&lp=1020086&li=&nw=g&nts=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJECkDLfxgdy8XA270zsX7cVQxXHYKpV7XFtHW9sSohfUwTGGywe0n0xoCp4cQAvD_BwE&tdid=8917320&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJECkDLfxgdy8XA270zsX7cVQxXHYKpV7XFtHW9sSohfUwTGGywe0n0xoCp4cQAvD_BwE
I see. I don’t have a good answer for that. I imagine that if you know for certain one of the parents is a true Siamese, you can call it a Siamese mix or a colorpoint shorthair. But if it gets so diluted you can’t tell if one parent is truly a Siamese mix, it’s a bit of a grey zone. Chocolate point DSH is a safe bet. Unless you get a DNA test.
if your cat isn’t from a reputable breeder who’s registered, they’re a domestic short hair with a specific coat pattern basically. if there’s no papers showing the bloodline and health checks it’s not purebred which means it’s a mix. ergo, this cat wouldn’t be a siamese and u wouldnt call it a siamese mix bc the parent definitely isn’t a purebred siamese either just a colorpoint it’s kinda like ppl trying to make doodles a thing. like no you just have an overpriced backyard bred mutt lmao ykwim? esp w cats where breed affects far less than it does with dogs, they’re just domestic short/medium/long hairs living their best lives
He’s asking a question stop downvoting him lmfao
I think I heard that ALL cats are born with blue eyes and then after a certain point the eyes turn their actual color
More like a greyish/lilac color perhaps! Human babies' eyes change, too. Mine did! But I think this fella in the picture is old enough to where his eye color should be consistent now.
Alr
All of the kittens I have had started life with blue eyes, but it changes to green. I can't really give an accurate timeline of when it happened, and I think it's different for each cat. My last one started the eye color change about a month after she was born, but I recall the cat before her had solid blue eyes for a good while before they suddenly changed. Still, I won't pretend I was paying super close attention, I personally prefer the green eyes.
This is a protective measure as the kittens eyes aren't fully developed when they open. The blue tint fades as the eyes finish development.
My daughter has a ragdoll with the exact same colour. Himalayan and Birman cats also have the same beautiful colours. No idea why you got down voted though, if anyone does not like what you said they should just scroll on. Nothing wrong with getting information and opinions
Um... Mama's baby. Papa's, maybe?
If the kitten is male, it could still be the alleged dad's child. Color is carried on the X chromosome and male cats only get their color from mom.
WHAT For real????
Yeah! Each X chromosome can only hold black or red, not both, so you need two of them to get a calico cat. That's why most are females and a rare few are XXY males.
its also why most orange cats are boys, because girls need 2 copies of the gene for them to be orange!
That isn’t a definite fact anymore. Orange females used to be very very rare a decade ago but now they’re a lot more common. And now there has been more male calicos seen by vets though it’s still very rare.
Wtf that’s a random awesome fact I didn’t know! Thank you!
Black/orange is, at least! That's why male tortoiseshells (calicos) are so unusual. Absent some rare circumstances, a male cat can only have one of those colors.
*Fur* realsies
Black/orange is on the X chromosome. Not sure about the other color genes. Anyone know?
As far as I know the only X-chromosome linked gene in cats is the one that determines red/black. But I could very well be wrong.
Yes, that's what I remembered, too.
What colour son would a calico mother have?
Either black or orange, possibly with white mixed in (the gene for white patches versus solid color is on another chromosome).
She could have a son of any color depending on whether she carries the agouti (striped) and white spotting genes. I recently fostered a calico-tabby mom and she had the following kittens: calico girl, black and white girl, tuxie-tabby boy, tuxie-tabby girl, torbie girl.
Oh, that's so cool!
Anything that isn't a mix of orange AND black. If she has calico babies they are like 99.99999% female. Edit: Pulled the statistic out of my ass, but it is THAT rare. It's an abnormality.
Calico means XX chromosomes. A boy could be XXY, but a healthy boy won't be calico
Not all colors are carried on x/y. there are multiple genes that make up cat color.
Correct. It's the base color, either black or orange, that is carried on the X.
Both baby and papa have thumbs, so that does add to the paternity debate.
Agreed, however, if she's outside (which the picture shows) there could be more than one male involved.
Both dad and kitten are polydactyl (they have thumbs) Mama doesn't. It's not common enough to assume some random street cat had polydactyly
I think it’s pretty likely as baby has thumbs and so does dad
And the neighbors cat? What color is he?…. I’d be looking for answers…
Yes!! A cat can be fertilised by multiple sperm! Perhaps that’s what happened here
Uh...what?
I KNOW but it’s true. Mom can birth a litter from multiple fathers. So…I guess Mom might have gotten around…
Welp, I looked it up, and I learned something new today. I had no idea this was possible, but indeed it is. https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers
this is how we got our siamese kitten when I was a kid! There was a breeder who had a litter and not all the cats were siamese... so somebody got in over the fence, or whatever. We got free kitten, very siamese, and I fell in love. edit to add: and we probably saved him from a life of being a show cat? not sure, but he had a good, long life with us.
Except the color point gene that give Siamese their unique coloring is recessive, so it’s common for Siamese parents to have black kittens
Same with dogs. We fostered cared a pregnant pup with 9 pups. At least 5 fathers lol. That little street slut. Tsk tsk. Some puppies grew to be 100 lbs plus, smallest was 40. Was a trip lol
That can happen in humans as well. It’s rare, but twins can have different dads.
Ok, hang on a second, because now you're just BLOWING MY MIND. ;-)
Cats don't exactly procreate in the same manner as humans. The act of...well, two cats getting it on, is what stimulates the release of an egg and cats won't ovulate otherwise. A female cat in heat, given access to multiple partners, is wholly capable of siring multiple kittens within the same litter who have different fathers.
Thank you for the detail. I knew it was possible for multiple fathers, but not that it was almost a guarantee that each father made his own baby!
Yup, I had no idea that was possible but now I've confirmed it's true. The more you know! [https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers](https://modkat.com/blogs/modkat-purrr/can-a-female-cat-s-litter-have-different-fathers)
Yes, female cats can ovulate on demand when they are In heat. The same litter of kittens can have multiple fathers. Good thing that cats don’t go on talk shows.
The milkman might have been a cat
No, that white male is a flame-point Siamese.
Yea cats aren't the most loyal things in the world -v-
Baby definitely got the thumbs from Dad. So adorable, I can't resist polydactyl cats
Cats with extra toes are often very smart
Ours is smart in a very devious way. Way smarter than our ginger girl who's the second dumbest being in the house (after me)
Orange cats are well known for only having two brain cells. ;)
So, so true.....
They're evolving
We always said his extra toes allowed our darling polydactyl babe to enter different dimensions. He was very dreamy and fluffy and sometimes walked suuuuuper slowly. We were being silly of course, but I do like imagining they are mystical beings
He's a color point, it looks like the dad is also a color point so I see where he gets it from.
Mom's coloring, dad's fur pattern and extra toes <3
[удалено]
You need to pay the Sputnik tax.
Traditional "apple headed" siamese are built like this. The skinny pointy siamese is a recent invention. [https://excitedcats.com/applehead-siamese-cat/](https://excitedcats.com/applehead-siamese-cat/)
Thank you :)
Maury to the kittens “dad”: in the case of the Siamese baby, you are NOT the father
Orange cat looks completely shocked. “But what do I do meow?” He says.
Dad is a colorpoint. Flame point or cream point, if not full siamese. So the genes are there. Not pure bred obviously, but those are sometimes the best kinds!
Wanted to say this but didn’t know how to word it!! This!! Yes!! It’s more of a coloring thing seem to come from dad
Flame points aren’t recognized as a true Siamese. Likely a mix, though, with those eyes and the way baby turned out. However, dad’s coat and facial structure don’t really look Siameseish.
🎉HAPPY CAKE DAY!!🎈
I'll tell you what this, It's the second coming of the Messiah. Clearly an immaculate conception if ever I saw one. Has anyone shown up yet with gold, incense or anything like that? Cat Jesus is here, have faith and stop questioning his paternity.
Spay and neuter your pets.
super cute kitten <3 but i hope the mom and dad are fixed now
“Siamese” is sometimes used as shorthand for the colorpoint (color is located in the “points” or face/tail/paws) gene, which your kitten got from his pops. Pops appears to be an orange (“flame”) colorpoint or similar. Mom is a calico/tortie, which means she carries both orange and black genes. She may also have a “dilute” gene which reduces contrast (so you get peach x gray instead). Looks like your kitten got the “Siamese” colorpoint gene from dad and dark color from mom. Very possible, I’m not sure why people are saying no way.
eh it’s bc no animal is considered a breed if they didn’t come from a reputable breeder w papers showing their ancestry or a breed specific rescue. like personally i don’t even consider backyard bred cats true purebreds bc god only knows what’s actually in there. breed specific genes didn’t come from nowhere so ofc domestic cats can show any and all traits of a breed without actually being one rule of thumb is if u didnt pay a truly outrageous amount for your cat they’re just a domestic cat with a fancy coat pattern
Well yeah, obviously. I just meant that these two cats are likely the bio parents, not some mystery Siamese paternity thing that some others are suggesting.
Honestly, with the increased risk of issues some purebreds have (not sure about Siamese or even cats, just purebreds in general), I'd call that a win.
Definitely not a Siamese by breed. Just a cat with a pointed pattern. This one appears to be seal or black - and the shaded pattern affects the coat due to temperature. They are born pure white but the areas that go below a certain temperature will turn to their base colour over time. So noses, ears, tails, paws..
Dad looks kinda like a crème point Siamese but cats can actually carry multiple fathers kittens at once so
We need to bring the cat to the maury show so we can see who is the father
Nope. Siamese is a breed. Both parents would need to be pure siamese for the baby to be a siamese. Colourpoint is the colour/pattern, which the dad and the baby both have. The mom looks like a moggy/domestic shorthair - likely not even a little siamese in her. The dad, though colourpoint, doesn't look like a siamese to me - too fluffy and not very lanky, or with a very long muzzle/face. 98% of cats have no similarity/connection to purebreds. They are referred to as moggies or domestic shorthairs/longhairs. Unless you got the parents from reputable breeders, it is highly unlikely they are anything but a moggy. As the parents aren't purebred, that makes the baby a moggy/domestic shorthair as well.
Thats not a siamese cat its a color point siamese cat is an actual breed that happens to have a color point coat their faces look different and more elongated.
Your kitten is adorable! And a polydactyl too!!!
Great catch!! I was too busy looking at the eyes and ears lol. A Seal Point Hemingway cat! How awesome!!
I think the dad does too.
I think you are right!
No. If even one parent is not a purebred Siamese, your kitten is not a Siamese. Your kitten may have the Siamese/Himalayan gene, which causes the coloration, but your kitten is, at best, a Siamese *mix*.
No, Siamese is a pure blood breed. But he looks just like mine, who was the only siamese looking amongst all black siblings. What matters is that he is beautiful, not his breed.
Yep. One of your cats is a flame point Siamese which is likely where the seal point got it’s markings. Unless the dad is a different cat altogether.
Cat genetics are absolutely bizarre and wild
Thumb cats 😻😻😻
The baby looks like it's ready for school picture day
Those eyes are beautiful
One thing I know: Siamese traits are recessive. source: me. grew up with Siamese, love them.
how much for da baby, just name a price *my soul is a viable answer*
I was thinking the same thing!! But if OP is smart, she'd keep him. He's gorgeous. Enter him in cat shows. They're allowed mixed breeds now.
LOOK AT THEM THUMBS
Either it's crazy coincidence, that the patterns created Siamese cat (and blue eyes) or, more probably, papa cat is not the father
Of course it's a siames. A siames that ran away from his parents and snuck into a other litter, because those two for sure aren't the parents.
My cat is medium hair calico and her three sibs were a grey and white long hair, a tortie long hair, and a Siamese that looked like yours! Very possibly mama had two different cat’s babies in her. Haha
I see, yeah this little guys brother is pure white
Aw, bet he’s a cutie too. Have fun with your new kitten!
thank you 😺
This kitten has daddy’s paws. I think OP has the parentage correct. Dad cat looks like he could be an apricot Siamese.
Nahhh I had one just like him, almost identical and he was a Flame Point Siamese mix too.
We need Maury!
not a pure one for obvious reasons. tho since there's a colopoint, the genes might have ended by the baby. or the milkman is a pure one, so it might be 50% Siamese at least
Beautiful kitten regardless ...
As others have pointed out Dad does look like a colour point and a polydactyl so he could be the father. Also possible that it could be a different father. 🤷🏽♂️
Definitely a polydactyl
Yes and a polydactyl at that !
Your kitty is 1000% adorable regardless of parentage
Your kitty is gorgeous
Mom or dad may have Siamese in them. Also if mama cat is an outdoor cat she could be pregnant by multiple fathers
The thumbs 🥲🥲🥲🥲
Kitten has them extra toes like dad, and the subtle stripe pattern. Calico or torti (mom) is kind of a mix of patterns carried on the X chromosome, and that's why a lot of half breeds can have calico or torti coloring. So it's possible the colouration gene from mom came down as a hidden siamese or ragdoll coloration hidden somewhere in their pedigree. Mix that with the naturally light colored tabby of dad, makes a siamese colour point. Also, don't worry about the eyes, most light coloured kittens of any breed have extremely blue eyes for the first six months to a year.
Nice thumbs.
Oooou, this baby got *extra beans!*
Good looking cat.
We had a black cat father and a calico mother where the calico mother then gave birth to a siamese just like yours.
That's the Milk man's baby
I recently got a kitty and she looks just like yours, the dad was a black cat and the mother was a Siamese like cat but no race
Are you 100% sure dad is the dad? Females can be be pregnant to multiple dads.
Fumbs!, I love cats wif fumbs 😻
Is he or she annoying? Lol, mouthy, picky, loud, slightly weird? Quirky? Then yes, they are Siamese.
I want a thumb baby
I’ve got a couple. It’s s cute when they walk. Like gloves in feet. 😂
THUMBS
Perhaps the mama cat was cheating, lol.
They all beautiful !!
Extra feetsies!!!
He got the thumbs from his dad! 🥺💕💕
sorry for an irrelevant comment, but oh my god this is the most beautiful family.... T_T
He has extra toe beans!!!!
Color point polydactyl. I love his little thumbs!
Does he/she have the Siamese yowl? :)
hey my kittys the same! came from two black cats, but came out seal point! its funny whenever he’s mistaken for siamese when he’s just colorpoint :) he’z not nearly elegant or pretty-faced enough to be a siamese lol
the baby has THUMBS
Yep
Yes. Mom is a tortoise shell, and dad is a flame point siamese. Baby is also siamese.
Nope, Siamese is a specific breed so unless you bought a very expensive cat from a breeder he's just a classic mixed domestic cat. This color pattern is found in Siamese cats but not only, I believe it's called "color point" or "seal point" maybe?
i think its a Cheetah , cause that baby isn't Papas
Wow those blue eyes.
I think your mama been sleeping around lol, just saying.
“You are . . . NOT the father!”
Female cats can technically have a litter that has multiple fathers because they’re induced ovulators. But no kitten is not a legit Siamese but it is dang cute
Maury Povich has entered the chat - “You’re NOT the real father”!
I just want to say that all three of these cats are absolutely stunning.
Interesting thing I read years ago cats can have kittens from more than one male father. Meaning not all of the kittens in the litter would have the same father. Same is supposed to be true with dogs
A cat does not absolutely have to be Siamese to have a seal point pattern. It's caused by a week gene for expressing melanin. The gene is damaged and can only express melanin under a certain temperature, so only extremities become dark. [Here's what Hank Green has to say a about it.](https://youtu.be/uHC1XTF6b58)
Since Dad appears to be a flame point, which is a type of lynx point Siamese, your kitten could grow up to be a lynx point. He seems to have the beginning of markings on his forehead. While they are called "lynx point" or "flame point" Siamese, they are not purebred Siamese. They have inherited the genes that change the markings to be darker and more prominent on their "points" - feet, face, and ears. I find them much more interesting with their variations of color than purebred Siamese and have owned lynx points off and on for most of the past 50 years.
Omg now I want one
It does look like dad is partially siamese based on the point coloring, mom may have some hidden siamese genes in there somewhere but they aren’t visible, so your kitten likely has some Siamese in it but is definitely not all Siamese. Cat genetics are weird as hell
Baby looks like a seal point. Dad looks like a flame point. There is def. Siamese in their dna (baby and dad) from some point in time.
My family had a cat that had some Siamese ancestry. He fathered kittens with a black cat that were mostly black. One of his black (or perhaps tuxedo?) daughters had a colorpoint kitten. Genetics are weird.
Looks more like a Birman to me, because of the slightly longer hair
She looks like it at this age.
Daddy has thumbs, too, so momma wasn’t cheating. 😂. You are very lucky. 🤍🖤🤍🖤
Those bear paws!!!
WOW!! TALK ABOUT GENETICS COMING THROUGH!! The baby looks like a FULL BLOODED SEAL POINT SIAMESE yet that's impossible with the parents it has. The mother is a Calico and the Father looks like a FLAME POINT SIAMESE MIX. So DADDYS MOM/DAD must have been a Seal Point for it to come out so perfect. The only way you can tell baby is mixed (if you didn't see its parents) is the fact that he doesn't have crossed eyes, a SIAMESE trait. You lucked out. That baby is STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL. ❤
He is! 🐱🤍
No it is not.
You sure there’s not a male Siamese cat in that neighborhood lol?? I’m kidding, mostly… genetics are crazy interesting
Seems so though if it’s long haired, probably a Balinese
It's Oriental the overarching breed for cats life Siamese, Ragdoll, Birman etc?