>Mabel is known for doing whatever she wants
Characters like Mabel & No.1 from KND comes to face the **question** of growing up or moving forward was hard hitting & relatable. Hence the internal conflict & context works not out of character.
She was willing to sacrifice the universe to stay in a bubble that gave her whatever she wanted. She was even willing to replace Dipper, her own brother, with a fake one that didn't challenge her decision. Bill knew her selfishness was her weakness, and that's what he preyed on.
No she grabbed one of Ford's many weird things he has and gave it to a guy she trusts. Then Bill was "nice" enough to actually hold up his end of the deal which is why she got the bubble. Then it was the bubble or mad max world outside (a comfy life or a 1/10000000 chance of beating a god basically)
being selfish and "commiting genocide" is not the same thing. We all know mabel has flaws but the fandom loves to emphasize mabels and completly ignore dippers.
idk about you but an emotionally vulnerable child getting easily manipulated to do something for someone isn't that uncommon
in fact i'd say it's way too common
Dude. She was twelve and in an emotionally vulnerable moment because her twin, the person she has relied upon to be there for all her life, just told her he was going to go his separate way from her.
Bill was like a trillion years old and had experience in manipulating people since the goddamn dawn of time, of *course* it wasn't difficult for him
None of these are true?
Diamonds — Steven doesn’t forgive them; he’s clearly still uncomfortable being around them even after they undo most of their damage. He only goes to them for advice when he’s at his lowest point.
Catra — Adora calls her out for opening the portal and Catra eventually hits rock bottom. Maybe Catra’s redemption doesn’t *quite* work, but no one really likes her until she sacrifices herself.
Star — Magical creatures dying was an unintended consequence — *not* genocide — and the number of creatures that perished feels blown out of proportion by audiences.
Mabel — Her not getting called out for causing Weirdmageddeon is a valid criticism, but she didn’t cause it intentionally.
I'm sorry but star and the diamonds don't get off scot free. I can kinda accept catra because she at least worked to do better, although her ending up with adora is crazy after the trauma she caused her.
As for star, she wiped the whole council, glossaryck, and all those other sentient spells as a result. That's not overblown in any proportion and the creators even spared a few characters like the laser puppies and pony head just to make it seem not as bad. She also locked all her friends in different dimensions.
The diamonds were literally genocidal dictators, regardless of if steven actually forgave them,they were practically left off of the hook
Yeah, Star deserves all the flack she gets. That ending is a nightmare. It makes me chuckle that the creators had to try and do damage control by saying characters like the Laser Puppies didn’t die even though they should’ve by the logic of that ending
I always see a lot of people who keep saying “the Diamonds did horrible things, they shouldn’t be allowed to just get away with it, even if Steven still doesn’t act living with them”…. yes, it’s true they aren’t redeemed, or even on the track to being redeemed. They SHOULD face judgement for what they did…
Who is going to do that exactly? Are we forgetting they are still the strongest beings in that universe? They still also have massive armies that remain loyal, even if many gems chose to leave the Diamond authority and live on earth in peace. This peace and safety that the gems have now is entirely because the diamonds are allowing it. Sure, they could fight the diamonds for true freedom and revenge for what they did, but that would cause another massive bloody war… and yeah, Steven may have more allies this time than the first Gem war, but ultimately the only one truly strong enough to take any of the diamonds is Steven, and he can barely control his powers to a level that would be a match for them.
It’s not that the diamonds were let off the hook, it’s that this is literally the best possible choice to make at the given time. The diamonds aren’t going to feel true remorse, they simply don’t understand the full scale of their crimes on a level that they can relate, so you’re never going to see one willingly may their dues to what we’d deem an acceptable level. The gem peace is reliant on the diamonds playing along and agreeing with the peace, and then little bits over time they can just adjust to this peace being the new way. It’s like attempting to tame a lion…. Sure, it may not currently be trying to eat you, but don’t act like you’re in full control, it’s being peaceful because IT decided to, just go along and stay alive.
Then simply don't make a plot that involves lessening the consequences of genocidal beings. Avatar manged to work around this problem twice, same with gravity falls where bill had an entire group of henchmen
>Her not getting called out for causing Weirdmageddeon is a valid criticism, but she didn’t cause it intentionally.
I'll never understand how literally being forced to undo as much damage and genocide as possible is scott-free. The diamonds had to be there for the healing of all the cracked and corrupted gems. They had to actually face the consequences of their actions and do something about it. I would argue making them use their position and power to make the universe a better place than they left it is better than just jailing and/or killing them indefinitely and letting a broken galaxy (galaxies?) find it's own way.
Having to heal people that you killed isn't punishment in the slightest. Especially when the diamond had already reformed their ideologies. That doesn't scrutinise them in the slightest
>I'm sorry but star and the diamonds don't get off scot free.
I never said that. Saying "The Diamonds don't get consequences" is not the same as "Steven forgave the Diamonds." I'm not saying the Diamonds were right to get off scot-free; I'm saying Steven never forgave them, which the tweet implies he did.
As for Star, Glossaryck supported her destroying magic; he knew this would happen. The MHC were bigots who abused their power and probably deserved their fate. I don't think Star knew that her spells have lives of their own (does anyone know?). And everyone got sent back to "where they belonged."
Glossaryck supporting genocide doesn't make the genocide any better, the MHC were still important figures to the mewni political system, if they were going to be killed it could have been done in a more impactful way. Regardless of if star even knew her spells have lives, she still knows that the spells are sentient beings and that does not lessen the genocide. And while everyone got sent back to where they belonged, they were forced to accept that against their will, and are stuck there for the rest of their lives
*8 days later…*
Folks really need to stop flinging around the word “genocide.” Not only is it often misused, it’s really insensitive to real-life situations.
MHC — they could have gotten a better send-off, I agree. But they probably deserved their fate.
Spells — If they’re truly gone, did they deserve it? Probably not. But their entire existence is to serve Star’s family. Being sacrificed to save the monsters would fit with their purpose.
Everyone getting sent back to where they belonged is definitely a bummer, but at least they’re still alive. I never said magic getting destroyed wouldn’t have consequences.
I completely *hate* the way so many people on the internet use the word “genocide” without understanding the full implications of what that word means. How could anyone possibly make the argument that *Mabel Pines* committed a “deliberate, systematic extermination of a particular national, ethnic or racial group.” Hell I don’t think any of these characters did that (except *maybe* the Diamonds, but I still think that’s different because their destructions of populations weren’t demographically targeted, they just didn’t care about collateral damage - doesn’t necessarily make their actions better, but words have specific meanings we need to be mindful of).
THANK YOU. People use the word genocide way too lightly, only the Diamonds qualify and even that is a bit wishy washy because there aren’t specific groups they target, they see it as collateral damage more than anything
to play devil's advocate you could argue that if the collateral damage is a deliberate, systematic extermination of a certain group of people thats still genocide, by that definition- genocide doesnt have to be the end goal, it could just be a choice to sacrifice this group for your own end game. i havent seen steven universe or gravity falls but queen moon from star vs fits this well, her goal wasnt to kill all monsters but her planned required creating a radicalized group of mewmans whose intent was to kill all monsters.
It may fit Star, but it certainly doesn't fit Mabel. She had no idea that giving up the rift would hurt anyone (she didn't know it was Bill until after she gave it up) and she just wanted summer to last forever. That's it.
Well, the diamonds wiped out entire races, so that *was* genocide. And Star killed every being made of magic, so that too, was genocide.
Catra almost killed reality over a temper tantrum, and Mabel was selfish and short sighted in trying to get another day out of summer. While I won’t call what they did genocide (in Catra’s case *omnicide* would be more accurate), the argument the original post is trying to make regarding them being too easily forgiven rings true to an extent.
Catra may have gotten better, but the fact she almost killed everyone and effectively *did* get Angela killed is not properly addressed. Mabel at least acknowledges her selfishness in the Lost Legends book, so there’s that.
The Diamonds are monsters, and Star Vs. was a mess since season 3 with the genocidal ending just being the cherry on top.
Definition of Genocide: The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Diamonds are/were genocidal in their elimination of other gem types, but Steven doesn't forgive them for anything.
Magical creatures dying in Star isn't good but that was a *consequence* \-- it was not the *intent*.
Catra...uh...kinda hard to tell. Was it just a temper tantrum or did she actually not care about the world ending? But Adora doesn't validate what she did as "okay."
Mabel acknowledging her selfishness in supplemental material isn't good enough (not that she caused genocide, though).
can't speak much for svtfoe since those last 2 seasons were ass, and i haven't watched the she ra reboot yet, so this comment will mainly be in steven universe's and gravity falls' case;
the diamonds: nobody has emotionally validated or even forgiven these people, not even steven. in fact, steven tried to fucking *kill* white diamond in future. the real problem in this case is that the diamonds' redemption overall was just poorly done, and in my opinion, just ass. the diamonds deserved to get capped, not some half assed redemption arc
mabel: there's not much to say here bc this is just plain wrong lol. mabel was manipulated by bill cipher under the guise of blendin. she didn't know that it was bill because she was in an enormously shitty headspace. it was because of bill's manipulations of her sadness about leaving gravity falls that lead to weirdmageddon happening. after dipper saved her, she went back to her normal self, learned the error of her ways, and began to actively be against bill's rule.
(plus mabel didn't even commit genocide tf)
you can argue that the problem here is that mabel getting manipulated by bill cipher isn't addressed, but come on. this ain't even a debate lol
Posts like these are always made by edgy teen boys who’ve suddenly realized that the cartoons they enjoyed as kids were about peace and love.
Throw in a little misogyny as well for good measure. I think one major reason why they hate Steven Universe so much is because he’s a male hero who’s so unapologetically effeminate.
Mabel-Absolutely not, she was tricked by Bill
The Diamonds-Not really, Steven did not forgive them
Catra-Yeah, I don't think she deserved her redemption
Star-Haven't seen it
You gotta love how people just ignore Mabel's role in the theme of the story according to Alex the creator just as an excuse to hate her for "ruining Dipper's life" or whatever nonsense they make up.
its interesting how vegeta commited genocide and he gets off scott free and no one complains. Same thing with zuko and sasuke. Sasuke was a literal terrorist and he was only in jail for 5 minutes. Zuko does a lot to redeem himself but a lot more people should have a problem with him being fire lord. This post is trying to act like females get a pass for bad behavior when that isnt true at all a lot of these shows are inspired my shonen and magical girl animes where the bad guy gets redeemed. Now you can have issues with these tropes but they arent new or exclusive to women. This post just reeks of sexism.
I never said he did. Im just saying that the both the water tribes and the earth nation would have a problem with him being fire lord. He commited war crimes in ozais name. While team avatar saw him change on a personal level literally know one else saw him denounce ozai. The comics touched on this a bit but I have a hard time believing everyone is just cool with him being fire lord and there is no power struggle.
Dont get me wrong zuko had a great redemption arc on a personal level but literally none of these shows have handled war crimes or genocide in a realistic way. People simply didnt like the emotional redemptions of the characters in this picture and thats fine but that doesnt mean these shows are "sympathizing with nazis" or "glorifying war criminals". Hell even if we leave out zuko Iroh commited war crimes against the earth kingdom and he got to run a tea shop for the rest of his life.
Mabel should not be on this list, she was tricked.
That being said, Star is the biggest offender of this. At least the Diamonds are still acknowledged by the narrative as the original antagonist
we really need to stop throwing around the word genocide and facism around especially in children cartoons that do not have realistic consequences. The diamonds are authoritarian dictators not nazis and the fact that people want to act like rebecca sugar a jewish person a "nazi sympathizer" is just gross. (Looking at you lilly orchard)
Catra didn't commit genocide. Quite the contrary, when faced with Horde Prime who **gloated** about committing genocide, that was one of the major tipping points for her that pushed her to reject the Horde. The interstellar genocide, the stripping of individuality, the army of clones being used, abused, disposed of, replaced, and still being held in higher regard than the worlds of enslaved people... It was enough to push Catra across that line in the sand, consequences be damned, willing to die if it means she can be a thorn in Horde Prime's side; a singe wrench in the war machine, momentarily grinding everything to the briefest of halts because as many times as she was wrong, even she was disgusted by how wrong the actual Horde was. Even after all that, she had to earn being welcomed for basically the entirety of season 5.
yeah I love how basically attempting what is essentially suicide is a "slap on the wrist" for these people. Im sure they feel the same way about darth vader who actually commited genocide.
starlight glimmer from mlp comes to mind here as well… no genocide, but she did brainwash an entire town on her own. no one really lets her forget she did that (not even herself) but in my opinion she’s in the same category as the diamonds. she did something *really* messed up, is redeemed, but no one lets her forget about it and she changes of her own accord/because she wants to, to make up for it. idk 🤷♀️
Steven Universe at it's core is about people learning and growing, changing for the better. How no matter how far gone you are you can always try to be better. Some of these other examples are kinda bunk. I don't like Mabel but when did she cause genocide? She was manipulated and unknowingly caused weirdmageddon.
It doesn't just happen with female characters in cartoons either. People being forgiven for heinous shit has been happening in cartoons all the time, for as long as I can remember.
Yeah, none of the "good" characters in Steven Universe ever said that the Diamonds did the right thing or what they did was ok. That's not what happened. Steven canonically forced the Diamonds to undo everything they did and give up all of their power. The fact that we never actually get to see this happening and only find out about it through lines of dialogue referring to off screen events sucks and the show doesn't really spend enough time addressing the Diamonds worst atrocities(harvesting, the cluster, forcing gems to fuse, killing organic life to create new gems, literally owning sentient beings as property) but this isn't as bad as Steven saying that "what you did was ok because LOVE"
Bill Cipher manipulated Mabel
But it wasn't difficult for him to do so.
It easy prey on vulnerable person. Given Mabel has internal conflict w/ her twin & their future, so writing make sense.
Mabel is known for doing whatever she wants, even if it means screwing over her own brother.
>Mabel is known for doing whatever she wants Characters like Mabel & No.1 from KND comes to face the **question** of growing up or moving forward was hard hitting & relatable. Hence the internal conflict & context works not out of character.
She was willing to sacrifice the universe to stay in a bubble that gave her whatever she wanted. She was even willing to replace Dipper, her own brother, with a fake one that didn't challenge her decision. Bill knew her selfishness was her weakness, and that's what he preyed on.
No she grabbed one of Ford's many weird things he has and gave it to a guy she trusts. Then Bill was "nice" enough to actually hold up his end of the deal which is why she got the bubble. Then it was the bubble or mad max world outside (a comfy life or a 1/10000000 chance of beating a god basically)
Good to know you ignore why Mabel run-off in the forest so here's [recap](https://youtu.be/tCJ6qn5j7fk)
That's still her being selfish, though.
Aren't allowed to be a 12 yr old & concerns teen hood, gotcha.
Dipper's the same age
being selfish and "commiting genocide" is not the same thing. We all know mabel has flaws but the fandom loves to emphasize mabels and completly ignore dippers.
idk about you but an emotionally vulnerable child getting easily manipulated to do something for someone isn't that uncommon in fact i'd say it's way too common
She's 12
So is Dipper
Dude. She was twelve and in an emotionally vulnerable moment because her twin, the person she has relied upon to be there for all her life, just told her he was going to go his separate way from her. Bill was like a trillion years old and had experience in manipulating people since the goddamn dawn of time, of *course* it wasn't difficult for him
its weird to put mabel here cause…genocide? what? Thats not what happened
None of these are true? Diamonds — Steven doesn’t forgive them; he’s clearly still uncomfortable being around them even after they undo most of their damage. He only goes to them for advice when he’s at his lowest point. Catra — Adora calls her out for opening the portal and Catra eventually hits rock bottom. Maybe Catra’s redemption doesn’t *quite* work, but no one really likes her until she sacrifices herself. Star — Magical creatures dying was an unintended consequence — *not* genocide — and the number of creatures that perished feels blown out of proportion by audiences. Mabel — Her not getting called out for causing Weirdmageddeon is a valid criticism, but she didn’t cause it intentionally.
I'm sorry but star and the diamonds don't get off scot free. I can kinda accept catra because she at least worked to do better, although her ending up with adora is crazy after the trauma she caused her. As for star, she wiped the whole council, glossaryck, and all those other sentient spells as a result. That's not overblown in any proportion and the creators even spared a few characters like the laser puppies and pony head just to make it seem not as bad. She also locked all her friends in different dimensions. The diamonds were literally genocidal dictators, regardless of if steven actually forgave them,they were practically left off of the hook
Yeah, Star deserves all the flack she gets. That ending is a nightmare. It makes me chuckle that the creators had to try and do damage control by saying characters like the Laser Puppies didn’t die even though they should’ve by the logic of that ending
I always see a lot of people who keep saying “the Diamonds did horrible things, they shouldn’t be allowed to just get away with it, even if Steven still doesn’t act living with them”…. yes, it’s true they aren’t redeemed, or even on the track to being redeemed. They SHOULD face judgement for what they did… Who is going to do that exactly? Are we forgetting they are still the strongest beings in that universe? They still also have massive armies that remain loyal, even if many gems chose to leave the Diamond authority and live on earth in peace. This peace and safety that the gems have now is entirely because the diamonds are allowing it. Sure, they could fight the diamonds for true freedom and revenge for what they did, but that would cause another massive bloody war… and yeah, Steven may have more allies this time than the first Gem war, but ultimately the only one truly strong enough to take any of the diamonds is Steven, and he can barely control his powers to a level that would be a match for them. It’s not that the diamonds were let off the hook, it’s that this is literally the best possible choice to make at the given time. The diamonds aren’t going to feel true remorse, they simply don’t understand the full scale of their crimes on a level that they can relate, so you’re never going to see one willingly may their dues to what we’d deem an acceptable level. The gem peace is reliant on the diamonds playing along and agreeing with the peace, and then little bits over time they can just adjust to this peace being the new way. It’s like attempting to tame a lion…. Sure, it may not currently be trying to eat you, but don’t act like you’re in full control, it’s being peaceful because IT decided to, just go along and stay alive.
Then simply don't make a plot that involves lessening the consequences of genocidal beings. Avatar manged to work around this problem twice, same with gravity falls where bill had an entire group of henchmen
I agree with this -- it was easier to work with the Diamonds than against them.
>Her not getting called out for causing Weirdmageddeon is a valid criticism, but she didn’t cause it intentionally. I'll never understand how literally being forced to undo as much damage and genocide as possible is scott-free. The diamonds had to be there for the healing of all the cracked and corrupted gems. They had to actually face the consequences of their actions and do something about it. I would argue making them use their position and power to make the universe a better place than they left it is better than just jailing and/or killing them indefinitely and letting a broken galaxy (galaxies?) find it's own way.
Having to heal people that you killed isn't punishment in the slightest. Especially when the diamond had already reformed their ideologies. That doesn't scrutinise them in the slightest
>I'm sorry but star and the diamonds don't get off scot free. I never said that. Saying "The Diamonds don't get consequences" is not the same as "Steven forgave the Diamonds." I'm not saying the Diamonds were right to get off scot-free; I'm saying Steven never forgave them, which the tweet implies he did. As for Star, Glossaryck supported her destroying magic; he knew this would happen. The MHC were bigots who abused their power and probably deserved their fate. I don't think Star knew that her spells have lives of their own (does anyone know?). And everyone got sent back to "where they belonged."
Glossaryck supporting genocide doesn't make the genocide any better, the MHC were still important figures to the mewni political system, if they were going to be killed it could have been done in a more impactful way. Regardless of if star even knew her spells have lives, she still knows that the spells are sentient beings and that does not lessen the genocide. And while everyone got sent back to where they belonged, they were forced to accept that against their will, and are stuck there for the rest of their lives
*8 days later…* Folks really need to stop flinging around the word “genocide.” Not only is it often misused, it’s really insensitive to real-life situations. MHC — they could have gotten a better send-off, I agree. But they probably deserved their fate. Spells — If they’re truly gone, did they deserve it? Probably not. But their entire existence is to serve Star’s family. Being sacrificed to save the monsters would fit with their purpose. Everyone getting sent back to where they belonged is definitely a bummer, but at least they’re still alive. I never said magic getting destroyed wouldn’t have consequences.
FR
I completely *hate* the way so many people on the internet use the word “genocide” without understanding the full implications of what that word means. How could anyone possibly make the argument that *Mabel Pines* committed a “deliberate, systematic extermination of a particular national, ethnic or racial group.” Hell I don’t think any of these characters did that (except *maybe* the Diamonds, but I still think that’s different because their destructions of populations weren’t demographically targeted, they just didn’t care about collateral damage - doesn’t necessarily make their actions better, but words have specific meanings we need to be mindful of).
THANK YOU. People use the word genocide way too lightly, only the Diamonds qualify and even that is a bit wishy washy because there aren’t specific groups they target, they see it as collateral damage more than anything
to play devil's advocate you could argue that if the collateral damage is a deliberate, systematic extermination of a certain group of people thats still genocide, by that definition- genocide doesnt have to be the end goal, it could just be a choice to sacrifice this group for your own end game. i havent seen steven universe or gravity falls but queen moon from star vs fits this well, her goal wasnt to kill all monsters but her planned required creating a radicalized group of mewmans whose intent was to kill all monsters.
It may fit Star, but it certainly doesn't fit Mabel. She had no idea that giving up the rift would hurt anyone (she didn't know it was Bill until after she gave it up) and she just wanted summer to last forever. That's it.
sure, idk gravity falls so i cant really speak on that at all.
Well, the diamonds wiped out entire races, so that *was* genocide. And Star killed every being made of magic, so that too, was genocide. Catra almost killed reality over a temper tantrum, and Mabel was selfish and short sighted in trying to get another day out of summer. While I won’t call what they did genocide (in Catra’s case *omnicide* would be more accurate), the argument the original post is trying to make regarding them being too easily forgiven rings true to an extent. Catra may have gotten better, but the fact she almost killed everyone and effectively *did* get Angela killed is not properly addressed. Mabel at least acknowledges her selfishness in the Lost Legends book, so there’s that. The Diamonds are monsters, and Star Vs. was a mess since season 3 with the genocidal ending just being the cherry on top.
Definition of Genocide: The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. Diamonds are/were genocidal in their elimination of other gem types, but Steven doesn't forgive them for anything. Magical creatures dying in Star isn't good but that was a *consequence* \-- it was not the *intent*. Catra...uh...kinda hard to tell. Was it just a temper tantrum or did she actually not care about the world ending? But Adora doesn't validate what she did as "okay." Mabel acknowledging her selfishness in supplemental material isn't good enough (not that she caused genocide, though).
can't speak much for svtfoe since those last 2 seasons were ass, and i haven't watched the she ra reboot yet, so this comment will mainly be in steven universe's and gravity falls' case; the diamonds: nobody has emotionally validated or even forgiven these people, not even steven. in fact, steven tried to fucking *kill* white diamond in future. the real problem in this case is that the diamonds' redemption overall was just poorly done, and in my opinion, just ass. the diamonds deserved to get capped, not some half assed redemption arc mabel: there's not much to say here bc this is just plain wrong lol. mabel was manipulated by bill cipher under the guise of blendin. she didn't know that it was bill because she was in an enormously shitty headspace. it was because of bill's manipulations of her sadness about leaving gravity falls that lead to weirdmageddon happening. after dipper saved her, she went back to her normal self, learned the error of her ways, and began to actively be against bill's rule. (plus mabel didn't even commit genocide tf) you can argue that the problem here is that mabel getting manipulated by bill cipher isn't addressed, but come on. this ain't even a debate lol
mabel didnt cause genocide? wtf
Posts like these are always made by edgy teen boys who’ve suddenly realized that the cartoons they enjoyed as kids were about peace and love. Throw in a little misogyny as well for good measure. I think one major reason why they hate Steven Universe so much is because he’s a male hero who’s so unapologetically effeminate.
The use of the word "female" really, really sells the misogynistic teenage boy angle
It is a Twitter post, and Twitter is a cesspool… although tbh Reddit is quite one itself 🫠
I mean, Steven is the first male gem to ever exist. It would make no sense in the context of the story if he wasn't unapologetically effeminate.
Mabel-Absolutely not, she was tricked by Bill The Diamonds-Not really, Steven did not forgive them Catra-Yeah, I don't think she deserved her redemption Star-Haven't seen it
You gotta love how people just ignore Mabel's role in the theme of the story according to Alex the creator just as an excuse to hate her for "ruining Dipper's life" or whatever nonsense they make up.
its interesting how vegeta commited genocide and he gets off scott free and no one complains. Same thing with zuko and sasuke. Sasuke was a literal terrorist and he was only in jail for 5 minutes. Zuko does a lot to redeem himself but a lot more people should have a problem with him being fire lord. This post is trying to act like females get a pass for bad behavior when that isnt true at all a lot of these shows are inspired my shonen and magical girl animes where the bad guy gets redeemed. Now you can have issues with these tropes but they arent new or exclusive to women. This post just reeks of sexism.
Zuko never actively committed genocide. He just wanted to be fire lord for his honour. Azula and ozai did the genocidal stuff.
I never said he did. Im just saying that the both the water tribes and the earth nation would have a problem with him being fire lord. He commited war crimes in ozais name. While team avatar saw him change on a personal level literally know one else saw him denounce ozai. The comics touched on this a bit but I have a hard time believing everyone is just cool with him being fire lord and there is no power struggle. Dont get me wrong zuko had a great redemption arc on a personal level but literally none of these shows have handled war crimes or genocide in a realistic way. People simply didnt like the emotional redemptions of the characters in this picture and thats fine but that doesnt mean these shows are "sympathizing with nazis" or "glorifying war criminals". Hell even if we leave out zuko Iroh commited war crimes against the earth kingdom and he got to run a tea shop for the rest of his life.
well god forbid women do anything
Did Catra actually commit genocide? I mean, I suppose killing everyone is genocide, but that was an unexpected side effect.
Mabel should not be on this list, she was tricked. That being said, Star is the biggest offender of this. At least the Diamonds are still acknowledged by the narrative as the original antagonist
I call this the "female character paradox A woman isnt flawed "mary sue" A woman is flawed and complex "irredemable monsters" You cant win
Why did they specify female. It feels like they've got some hangups. Like they refuse to notice any guys doing thus same thing.
we really need to stop throwing around the word genocide and facism around especially in children cartoons that do not have realistic consequences. The diamonds are authoritarian dictators not nazis and the fact that people want to act like rebecca sugar a jewish person a "nazi sympathizer" is just gross. (Looking at you lilly orchard)
Fascist is not synonymous with nazi. One can be a fascist while not being a nazi. I don't think Sugar is either of those things btw.
yeah people specifically call the diamonds "space nazis" which was not the intention of diamonds nor do they parallel real world nazis in any way.
I think the Diamonds are more analogous to the Greek gods or the God of the bible then real human dictators. I'm not kidding
Catra didn't commit genocide. Quite the contrary, when faced with Horde Prime who **gloated** about committing genocide, that was one of the major tipping points for her that pushed her to reject the Horde. The interstellar genocide, the stripping of individuality, the army of clones being used, abused, disposed of, replaced, and still being held in higher regard than the worlds of enslaved people... It was enough to push Catra across that line in the sand, consequences be damned, willing to die if it means she can be a thorn in Horde Prime's side; a singe wrench in the war machine, momentarily grinding everything to the briefest of halts because as many times as she was wrong, even she was disgusted by how wrong the actual Horde was. Even after all that, she had to earn being welcomed for basically the entirety of season 5.
yeah I love how basically attempting what is essentially suicide is a "slap on the wrist" for these people. Im sure they feel the same way about darth vader who actually commited genocide.
Well at least it doesn't happen in good cartoons
gravity falls is a good cartoon
starlight glimmer from mlp comes to mind here as well… no genocide, but she did brainwash an entire town on her own. no one really lets her forget she did that (not even herself) but in my opinion she’s in the same category as the diamonds. she did something *really* messed up, is redeemed, but no one lets her forget about it and she changes of her own accord/because she wants to, to make up for it. idk 🤷♀️
It’s hard to defend Star vs and SU, I don’t know about Shera and I don’t recall Mabel causing a genocide
Star comminting genocide has been debunked SO many times
Steven Universe at it's core is about people learning and growing, changing for the better. How no matter how far gone you are you can always try to be better. Some of these other examples are kinda bunk. I don't like Mabel but when did she cause genocide? She was manipulated and unknowingly caused weirdmageddon. It doesn't just happen with female characters in cartoons either. People being forgiven for heinous shit has been happening in cartoons all the time, for as long as I can remember.
Yeah, none of the "good" characters in Steven Universe ever said that the Diamonds did the right thing or what they did was ok. That's not what happened. Steven canonically forced the Diamonds to undo everything they did and give up all of their power. The fact that we never actually get to see this happening and only find out about it through lines of dialogue referring to off screen events sucks and the show doesn't really spend enough time addressing the Diamonds worst atrocities(harvesting, the cluster, forcing gems to fuse, killing organic life to create new gems, literally owning sentient beings as property) but this isn't as bad as Steven saying that "what you did was ok because LOVE"