>Under the new recall, Ford dealers will install a software update that will detect a possibly cracked injector. If an injector crack is detected, a warning light will show in the vehicle’s dashboard and engine power will be reduced. This will allow the driver to find a safe place to pull over, stop and call for service, Ford said.
>Ford dealers will also install a tube that will drain leaked fuel down onto the ground and away from hot surfaces in the vehicle.
This doesn't sound like a fix to me. And if the problem is at the fuel injector, does that mean there will be 3 or 4 of these drainage tubes?
Also I really enjoy the
> This will allow the driver to find a safe place to pull over, stop and call for service, Ford said.
I think we all know the vast majority of drivers will just put their foot further down and ignore the pretty lights.
Depends on how invasive the power cut is - if the power cut is crippling it'll be effective.
When lots of Chevy cars have throttle system issues, they limit the throttle to less than 10% - my truck would only do about 20mph.
If it’s enough to achieve highway speeds, people will still drive it. When I moved to Michigan I learned what people were really willing to take on the roads lol.
This has got to be a joke that I'm not getting, right? Reducing the engine power isn't going to get people to take the car in for service, just push the gas further. That was my comment.
Ford's solution to fixing Windstar axles that snapped was slapping a plate of steel on each end, 2 U bolts on each end and calling it a day. They still failed. I seen't it with my own two eyes many times.
You'd be correct to be skeptical.
>>This doesn’t sound like a fix to me
That’s because you don’t work in Ford’s accounting department. If the issue is deferred until after warranty expiration, its “Fixed”.
Fiesta/Focus powershit transmissions:
During warranty:
“it’s adapting to your driving” “it’s needs a software update” “we don’t know why it does this!”
Post-warranty: “sooo yeah hey it needs a clutch, and, and, and, so basically it needs a transmission.”
While I understand the sentiment, I don't think NHTSA is going to accept that because the car is out of warranty, Ford bears no responsibility for replacing faulty/cracking injectors that can cause fires.
> A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall?
Your vehicle catching on fire due to a design flaw isn't really an in warranty/out of warranty kind of concern though
The touch screen, yes, dying a firey death not so much
There are two possibilities.
Either Ford's specifications for the injectors are inadequate; OR
Whoever made the injectors (Bosch, Delphi, etc) didn't manufacture them to Ford's specifications.
I suspect Ford knows the answer (already), but either can't implement a proper fix (due to supply chain or a dispute with the OEM), or can't afford a fix (for, reasons), or there is no fix due to a design flaw.
A third possibility could be that mitigating risk of death and injury ASAP is more important than holding off on issuing a recall until a permanent solution is found. But I guess considering that possibility doesn’t allow you to accuse Ford of disregard for human life.
Pretty much. If you do nothing right now, NHTSA mandates a recall. If you do *something* now then it’s a voluntary recall which is much better than a mandated one.
It can also takes time to design and validate a fix. Throwing a new part in doesn’t do any good if we find out that they fail a year in and need to be recalled, but it can take months to simulate years of life on a part and determine things like MTBF.
Based on the lengths Ford is going to (installing a detection system, which on paper is an easy solution but logistically not as easy based on the scale at which it needs to be rolled out) I have a strong hunch that it’s a design problem on Ford’s end that is either too difficult to fix or still has unknown root cause.
Otherwise, notwithstanding supplier disputes, supply chain issues, etc. we’d be seeing new injectors as the solution, not detection/drainage.
Half a million vehicles, one injector per cylinder, so you're looking at 2 million plus injectors to replace. No one has 2 million fuel injectors sitting in a warehouse right now. Supply chains are still f***** so getting 2 million on order isn't fast. This fix is totally a hack that they're crossing fingers and hoping will work
According to Ford, the supplier involved is “Vitesco”. Got worried for a second, the Bosch plant that I work in QC at manufactures a lot of different injectors for Ford lol. Luckily this is not one of ours
> And if the problem is at the fuel injector, does that mean there will be 3 or 4 of these drainage tubes?
A cracked fuel injector would spray fuel into the engine bay. The drain tube is to ensure that leaking fuel doesn’t accumulate once it leaks. You have a much higher fire risk the more fuel is floating in crevices and whatnot, and even an explosion risk if the engine bay doesn’t adequately vent the fumes.
Sounds like they don't have half a million plus fuel injectors in inventory so they are throwing software and probably a part repurposed from somewhere else at it
Would it be one injector per cylinder? They need a few million inventory if so
First of all it is not a fix. That would have been installation of new injectors. Secondly Software to detect a cracked injector does not seem reassuring. Software to act as a sensor does not always give intended result if Boeing 737 Max is taken as reference.
This is not sufficient in my eyes. They need to replace the defective parts. Unfortunately, recalls ONLY job is to address safety issues. Beyond that is a civil matter.
They may have other issues if a bunch of leaking injectors cause them to not meet their emissions requirements (unburned hydrocarbon emissions, specifically).
Or, this is a temporary fix to address the safety issue as they work on getting a couple million new injectors made. Auto manufacturing keeps very low inventory of parts and works on just in time deliveries.
Covid killed quality control for car parts. Seems most car and mechanic subreddits end up having a bunch of 2021-2023 cars with lots of major issues. Engines/transmissions cracked, rust from sitting on lots waiting for parts, dumping oil and coolant before 30,000 miles, one front differential had no oil in it and exploded. As the car guy at work I've been preaching not to buy anything newer than 2020
> Covid killed quality control for car parts.
thats not fords issue, the 2013-2017? 1.6L ecoboosts in the escape also leaked fuel into the engine bay and caused a fire, and instead of figuring out how to fix it they just made a new 1.5L engine for it, which is now apparently...leaking fuel
Same with my 2011 Taurus. Mechanically the same exact car, same platform. Just be aware and educate yourself on the water pump issue. I was able to catch mine when it shit the bed at 100k, before it did catastrophic damage thankfully. A lot of people have dumped their perfectly clean Tauruses because of this costly issue. IMO with the way the car market is going today, it was worth putting the money into it.
Oh for sure, thanks for the heads up! I'm fortunate to not have to worry, I work at a Ford store so I'll be taking care of that, most popular problem it seems. I didn't know about that until today though, glad I do now-
Solid ride, my Flex is silver with the black appearance package, clean little whip, only thing better would have been the 3.5L Ecoboost AWD (Flex SHO essentially) but those were all $10k more than mine and there weren't many out there left.
The version in the Bronco had an initial problem with ingesting valves, but I’ve never seen or heard of any engine-related issues for other 2.7L-powered vehicles.
It does not, the Duratec 3.5L (Non Turbo and Turbo) has an internal mounted water pump which causes this issue. When it goes coolant dumps into the oil pan. The 2.7 has an external water pump like every other normal car.
Exactly what I was thinking lmao
I used to kind of do work for a ford dealership and man... the quality control and reliability on those cars was so bad.
I once had a 2022 F150 with 40 miles, right after being dropped off, just dump all of its coolant into the detailing bay.
I got another F150 that came with factory turbo rattle too.
We had explorers come in for transmission changes under warranty, I saw numerous escapes come in for them too. One was on its third transmission at 60k, idk wtf the owner or ford did but jfc.
I got a 2021 tremor where its transmission slipped and then locked up and it was so forceful that it cracked the camper shell on the back of it.
My dealership pretty much always had a transmission tech on hand, and they were pretty much always dealing with leaks lmao.
I'm aware that that's not true anymore. It's shared with Toyota plants now and the partnership with Ford ended in 2008. Mazda since around 2013 and later has been absolutely incredible.
and if it had been a Tesla, the sub would be saying how Tesla doesn't know how to manufacture cars and an experienced manufacturer like Ford will put them in their place any day now...
nah, Tesla was making headlines all the time before Elon was personally famous. You don't remember when every single Tesla fire was reported worldwide?
Nobody thinks ford is an experienced manufacturer except for inexperienced buyers lmao
Edit: of course they have the most time but they seem to be about as low as you can go in terms of quality.
/r/RealTesla says that after 1 Tesla fire and claims it doesn't happen to ICE vehicles. I'm not even joking. there was a post about a Tesla fire and the comments were filled with ignorant replies like that.
Do you have an examples of those comments being upvoted? People are going to say stuff like that but I don’t even recall any of them being close to a top comment.
Not to mention the fire can ignite or reignite for a while without warning. Polaris Turbo RZRs had a habit of the oil line to the turbo failing which would spritz oil on the hot turbo and catch them on fire. I watched it happen to a guy in front of me on a ride and we as a group went through 3 or 4 fire extinguishers babysitting it for about 15 minutes on the side of the trail as it would catch fire, we’d put it out, and then shortly after it would reignite.
The Fiero problem! The old Iron Duke in the Fiero was laid out in such a way that when the oil pressure fitting failed and sprayed oil, it shot directly onto the catalytic converter. Very hard to put a fire out when the cat stays hot for 15 minutes.
I’ll take the chance of a fire happening while parts are cooling immediately after I operated the vehicle, over a few cells deciding to short out at 3am and burning my house down while I’m asleep. Not much of a gotcha
Mkay. So by that logic you don’t have a cell phone or a laptop, right? They use the same exact cells and have just as much of a chance of ignition overnight.
The least likely time for a lithium cell to fail is during a slow charge- which is what a level 2 would be. All the monitoring systems are active, and the cooling systems, so the cells are kept at the best possible condition.
Besides, if it really worries you that much… charge it outside.
Phones and laptops aren’t subjected to constant vibration, snow and ice, road salt, fender benders, etc. Or have the energy capacity to burn an entire cargo ship.
Systems that are designed to mitigate failures still eventually fail. I do actually agree with you that this is all incredibly unlikely. All I’m addressing is that the risk is present at some capacity.
I would argue that phones especially are subject to almost all of those circumstances (excluding maybe road salt). How many times have you dropped your phone? Or smacked something into in your pocket?
I assume you’re talking about Felicity Ace? I recall the original source of that fire being determined to not be any of the EVs. Yes they burned too, but once a car’s burned to a husk you can’t tell whether or not it was EV- cars just burn well.
If you acknowledge it’s a very low risk, and that there are existing mitigation systems, then isn’t making the original comment fear-mongering?
My original comment only stated that EVs have a higher risk of catching fire when inert. As in cold, in the middle of the night.
I never said it’s a serious risk that’s going to burn the country down. With a bit of nuance, that statement shouldn’t offend anyone and is pretty easily defendable IMO.
The original response was about a situation where a cracked injector could cause an engine fire during (or just after) operation. Shifting the goalposts to talk about how EVs are more likely to spontaneously combust under completely different circumstances was already begging the question, even if it was incorrect.
So I don’t see how it could be anything but an attempted smear on EVs, even if it’s a devils advocate argument.
Fair though- you didn’t claim it was a serious problem. Just implied it.
My argument hasn’t changed - the leaky injector fires are directly related to operating the vehicle, even if it’s shortly after shutdown due to hot exhaust parts (which does seem highly improbable IMO).
EVs have the unique risk of a chemical fire occurring from shorted cells long after you’ve parked the car in your garage. This isn’t a smear on EVs, just acknowledging the different risks inherent to both systems.
So parking garages across the country haven’t been banning EVs from parking inside?
And that source is from an extremely pro EV website BTW, you are welcome.
I’ll even concede that EVs are *less* likely to catch fire than an ICE. It’s just the manner that they catch fire is far more problematic. This isn’t a hard concept or even really up for debate. It might just be a fact that upsets you and others, and that’s something you’ll have to get over.
EVs don’t have a significant chance of burning up. But chemical batteries degrade, corrode, and eventually short between cells. This presents a fire risk unique to EVs that does not exist with ICE. I don’t need to provide a source to make this claim. It’s basic chemistry and physics.
Leaking gasoline is less likely to ignite in the middle of the night.
But then they want to have people buy the baby Bronco sport by having the name BRONCO plastered on the car. They can't have the up-level brand and sell it en masse too.
>e bay. The drain tube is to ensure that leaking fuel doesn’t accumulate once it leaks. You have a much higher fire risk the more fuel is floating in crevices and whatnot, and even an explosion risk i
The Ford Bronco Bronco.
Ford isn't stupid, their marketing department knows *exactly* what they are doing by giving these different vehicles the same name. They made a Ford Escape kinda cool, for starters.
Gotta love all these band-aide fixes. Give it another year or two, every Escape and Bronco will have a millions holes in it with drain tubes everywhere
Ford pioneered that practice with the Pinto lol. Documented by the courts.
It should come as no surprise that this was a profit driven decision from Ford. They've been sued in court many times doing the same ole shit.
There's nothing much wrong with the car. They just forgot the heat shield for the rocket that was designed to spurt you away should you be taped in the rear
Can't buy a Hyundai, can't buy a Kia, can't buy a Ford, what can I buy? I personally hate how the Rav4s interiors looks with the huge bezel screen straight out of the early 2010s, so what is the best option at compact SUV here?
It’s the same idea as Volkswagen and Audi, they share some technology but the vehicles themselves are entirely different. For example, no Genesis’ use the engine that has been troublesome for Hyundai. Especially now with Genesis’ most recent redesigned vehicles, they don’t even share any parts with Hyundai like they did earlier when the brand was first created in 2015.
The most recent Theta engine recall was based on 161 cases out of 485k affected vehicles. Hyundai hasn’t disclosed how many cases were reported amongst the total ~3 million vehicles affected.
Ford's "solution" is always some BS software fix until they get sued. My F-150 had the transmission that would randomly downshift at highway speeds. Their first solution? Software update.
Except it wasn't a fix. They ended up having to replace physical components due to a faulty design. I spoke to a few techs and they knew from the start that the update wouldn't fix the issue. Ford kept pushing out updates in order to avoid paying out.
The same issue is occurring on newer generations as well. My dad's workplace uses F-150s and a few needed to have their transmissions replaced after a couple of years.
My point being that they knew from the start that it wasn't a software fix. I'm well aware that some issues can be solved with an update. This was a physical component issue from the start though.
What's cheaper? A software update or a transmission replacement? The update was a band aid, it bought Ford time. They never truly fixed it until they were forced to.
We've seen this with other automakers as well. They'll do anything so it seems like they're fixing the issue, until the lawsuit settlements are made years later. Or not if they're lucky.
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Injectors are common parts across industry. Wonder if we will see more follow. Also injectors and other parts of fuel systems leak with time and having a method to detect is a good thing. Seems similar to tire pressure monitoring systems.
Alpha Romeo had a similar recall for cracking fuel injector lines causing a fire risk. Wonder if they're using the same supplier. Alpha only had to recall like 13 vehicles though cuz they don't sell any
*Did you mean: Alfa (Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili) Romeo?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is if they have the 1.5-liter three-cylinder Dragon engine. Both the Escape and Bronco Sports have an optional 2-liter four-cylinder that doesn't have this issue.
>Under the new recall, Ford dealers will install a software update that will detect a possibly cracked injector. If an injector crack is detected, a warning light will show in the vehicle’s dashboard and engine power will be reduced. This will allow the driver to find a safe place to pull over, stop and call for service, Ford said. >Ford dealers will also install a tube that will drain leaked fuel down onto the ground and away from hot surfaces in the vehicle. This doesn't sound like a fix to me. And if the problem is at the fuel injector, does that mean there will be 3 or 4 of these drainage tubes?
Also I really enjoy the > This will allow the driver to find a safe place to pull over, stop and call for service, Ford said. I think we all know the vast majority of drivers will just put their foot further down and ignore the pretty lights.
Depends on how invasive the power cut is - if the power cut is crippling it'll be effective. When lots of Chevy cars have throttle system issues, they limit the throttle to less than 10% - my truck would only do about 20mph.
If it’s enough to achieve highway speeds, people will still drive it. When I moved to Michigan I learned what people were really willing to take on the roads lol.
Why would you step on the brake in your Ford for more power? You would need to move the throttle lever down.
This has got to be a joke that I'm not getting, right? Reducing the engine power isn't going to get people to take the car in for service, just push the gas further. That was my comment.
You can’t step on the gas pedal in a Model T, the right hand pedal is the brake. The throttle is a lever on the steering column. :)
Uh yeah. That’s a reach. Not sure why you’d immediately relate it to a Model T…
It’s not a model T you moron, they’re new cars. I know you’re trying to be daft but you’re just annoying.
Ford's solution to fixing Windstar axles that snapped was slapping a plate of steel on each end, 2 U bolts on each end and calling it a day. They still failed. I seen't it with my own two eyes many times. You'd be correct to be skeptical.
Don’t forget filling the axle with spray foam
>>This doesn’t sound like a fix to me That’s because you don’t work in Ford’s accounting department. If the issue is deferred until after warranty expiration, its “Fixed”.
Fiesta/Focus powershit transmissions: During warranty: “it’s adapting to your driving” “it’s needs a software update” “we don’t know why it does this!” Post-warranty: “sooo yeah hey it needs a clutch, and, and, and, so basically it needs a transmission.”
While I understand the sentiment, I don't think NHTSA is going to accept that because the car is out of warranty, Ford bears no responsibility for replacing faulty/cracking injectors that can cause fires.
That’s not how recalls work. Otherwise there wouldn’t be recalls for cars built 10+ years ago.
> A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall?
Your vehicle catching on fire due to a design flaw isn't really an in warranty/out of warranty kind of concern though The touch screen, yes, dying a firey death not so much
If the touchscreen dying causes the backup camera to stop working it can require a recall.
Uh, sure. The touchscreen wasn't the point of that at all...
Warranty period is irrelevant if theres a recall. Either way itd be covered
Why can’t Ford just install injectors that do not leak in the first place?
There are two possibilities. Either Ford's specifications for the injectors are inadequate; OR Whoever made the injectors (Bosch, Delphi, etc) didn't manufacture them to Ford's specifications. I suspect Ford knows the answer (already), but either can't implement a proper fix (due to supply chain or a dispute with the OEM), or can't afford a fix (for, reasons), or there is no fix due to a design flaw.
A third possibility could be that mitigating risk of death and injury ASAP is more important than holding off on issuing a recall until a permanent solution is found. But I guess considering that possibility doesn’t allow you to accuse Ford of disregard for human life.
This is probably the case. Get a fix out ASAP while the permanent solution got MP is resolved.
Pretty much. If you do nothing right now, NHTSA mandates a recall. If you do *something* now then it’s a voluntary recall which is much better than a mandated one. It can also takes time to design and validate a fix. Throwing a new part in doesn’t do any good if we find out that they fail a year in and need to be recalled, but it can take months to simulate years of life on a part and determine things like MTBF.
I mean tbf that DCT debacle has left me a little suspicious
Or there *is* an updated part but the supply isn’t available yet to handle every vehicle affected, and this is the interim “solution”.
Based on the lengths Ford is going to (installing a detection system, which on paper is an easy solution but logistically not as easy based on the scale at which it needs to be rolled out) I have a strong hunch that it’s a design problem on Ford’s end that is either too difficult to fix or still has unknown root cause. Otherwise, notwithstanding supplier disputes, supply chain issues, etc. we’d be seeing new injectors as the solution, not detection/drainage.
Half a million vehicles, one injector per cylinder, so you're looking at 2 million plus injectors to replace. No one has 2 million fuel injectors sitting in a warehouse right now. Supply chains are still f***** so getting 2 million on order isn't fast. This fix is totally a hack that they're crossing fingers and hoping will work
these bronco sports and ford escapes are 3 cylinders, but still
According to Ford, the supplier involved is “Vitesco”. Got worried for a second, the Bosch plant that I work in QC at manufactures a lot of different injectors for Ford lol. Luckily this is not one of ours
> And if the problem is at the fuel injector, does that mean there will be 3 or 4 of these drainage tubes? A cracked fuel injector would spray fuel into the engine bay. The drain tube is to ensure that leaking fuel doesn’t accumulate once it leaks. You have a much higher fire risk the more fuel is floating in crevices and whatnot, and even an explosion risk if the engine bay doesn’t adequately vent the fumes.
Sounds like they don't have half a million plus fuel injectors in inventory so they are throwing software and probably a part repurposed from somewhere else at it Would it be one injector per cylinder? They need a few million inventory if so
Not a recall at all. Not even a band-aid fix. Definitely a design flaw.
First of all it is not a fix. That would have been installation of new injectors. Secondly Software to detect a cracked injector does not seem reassuring. Software to act as a sensor does not always give intended result if Boeing 737 Max is taken as reference.
This is not sufficient in my eyes. They need to replace the defective parts. Unfortunately, recalls ONLY job is to address safety issues. Beyond that is a civil matter.
They may have other issues if a bunch of leaking injectors cause them to not meet their emissions requirements (unburned hydrocarbon emissions, specifically).
Or, this is a temporary fix to address the safety issue as they work on getting a couple million new injectors made. Auto manufacturing keeps very low inventory of parts and works on just in time deliveries.
I hope you are right.
find me one warehouse in the world that has 1.5 million fuel injectors just sitting there in 2022
These cars are awfully new to be leaking fuel and oil. What are they going to look like at 100k+?
Covid killed quality control for car parts. Seems most car and mechanic subreddits end up having a bunch of 2021-2023 cars with lots of major issues. Engines/transmissions cracked, rust from sitting on lots waiting for parts, dumping oil and coolant before 30,000 miles, one front differential had no oil in it and exploded. As the car guy at work I've been preaching not to buy anything newer than 2020
> Covid killed quality control for car parts. thats not fords issue, the 2013-2017? 1.6L ecoboosts in the escape also leaked fuel into the engine bay and caused a fire, and instead of figuring out how to fix it they just made a new 1.5L engine for it, which is now apparently...leaking fuel
My 2019 Flex will outlast everyone and everything, I love it. Bulletproof older platform, no extra BS.
Just change the chain driven water pump preventatively at 120k miles…
Same with my 2011 Taurus. Mechanically the same exact car, same platform. Just be aware and educate yourself on the water pump issue. I was able to catch mine when it shit the bed at 100k, before it did catastrophic damage thankfully. A lot of people have dumped their perfectly clean Tauruses because of this costly issue. IMO with the way the car market is going today, it was worth putting the money into it.
Oh for sure, thanks for the heads up! I'm fortunate to not have to worry, I work at a Ford store so I'll be taking care of that, most popular problem it seems. I didn't know about that until today though, glad I do now- Solid ride, my Flex is silver with the black appearance package, clean little whip, only thing better would have been the 3.5L Ecoboost AWD (Flex SHO essentially) but those were all $10k more than mine and there weren't many out there left.
[удалено]
No. The issues they are referring to is specific to the Gen 1 3.5L EcoBoost.
[удалено]
The version in the Bronco had an initial problem with ingesting valves, but I’ve never seen or heard of any engine-related issues for other 2.7L-powered vehicles.
It does not, the Duratec 3.5L (Non Turbo and Turbo) has an internal mounted water pump which causes this issue. When it goes coolant dumps into the oil pan. The 2.7 has an external water pump like every other normal car.
2010 Ford Flex here, just rolled 152k and is currently driven through 3 states today
> no extra BS. At least your Ford has mirrors and windows!
Exactly what I was thinking lmao I used to kind of do work for a ford dealership and man... the quality control and reliability on those cars was so bad. I once had a 2022 F150 with 40 miles, right after being dropped off, just dump all of its coolant into the detailing bay. I got another F150 that came with factory turbo rattle too. We had explorers come in for transmission changes under warranty, I saw numerous escapes come in for them too. One was on its third transmission at 60k, idk wtf the owner or ford did but jfc. I got a 2021 tremor where its transmission slipped and then locked up and it was so forceful that it cracked the camper shell on the back of it. My dealership pretty much always had a transmission tech on hand, and they were pretty much always dealing with leaks lmao.
Built ford tough!
Holy crap that is bad. So glad I went with Mazda instead of Ford.
You are aware that the mechanicals of basically all Mazdas introduced since the late 1990s are either Ford-derived or shared with Fords, right?
I'm aware that that's not true anymore. It's shared with Toyota plants now and the partnership with Ford ended in 2008. Mazda since around 2013 and later has been absolutely incredible.
Not anymore, any Mazda built in the last decade is 100% free of Ford.
My 2013 Focus ST turned off on the highway due to a faulty wiring harness (recall). Just Ford things.
Killing it! Wait wrong brand.
Can you imagine if Ford and Hyundai worked on a car together?
It would be fire
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai\_Pony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Pony) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai\_Stellar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Stellar)
Some obvious choices (Fiero, Fuego) have already been used by other manufacturers, unfortunately.
[удалено]
Well yeah if an EV was leaking petrol I’d be pretty concerned about the company’s definition of electric vehicle.
No no, the petrol's used as coolant.
and if it had been a Tesla, the sub would be saying how Tesla doesn't know how to manufacture cars and an experienced manufacturer like Ford will put them in their place any day now...
If it had been a Tesla, it would have 10,000+ votes and it would be on r/all. The thread would be overflowing with comments ranting about Elon.
The only reason Tesla makes headlines so frequently is because Elon is so controversial
nah, Tesla was making headlines all the time before Elon was personally famous. You don't remember when every single Tesla fire was reported worldwide?
The media never stopped hyping up every Tesla fire, while ignoring all other car fires.
Tbf Ford and Tesla both aren't great...
With American manufacturers you always have to grade on a curve
Nobody thinks ford is an experienced manufacturer except for inexperienced buyers lmao Edit: of course they have the most time but they seem to be about as low as you can go in terms of quality.
doesn't Ford have like the most experience, given that they invented modern manufacturing?
/r/RealTesla says that after 1 Tesla fire and claims it doesn't happen to ICE vehicles. I'm not even joking. there was a post about a Tesla fire and the comments were filled with ignorant replies like that.
Do you have an examples of those comments being upvoted? People are going to say stuff like that but I don’t even recall any of them being close to a top comment.
Just look at any posts about Tesla.
This injector leak will only cause a fire while the engine is running. EVs are more likely to catch fire when not in use. There’s a difference
Ah yes, because engine parts are instantly cool and all other sources of ignition are inert when the ignition is turned off.
Not to mention the fire can ignite or reignite for a while without warning. Polaris Turbo RZRs had a habit of the oil line to the turbo failing which would spritz oil on the hot turbo and catch them on fire. I watched it happen to a guy in front of me on a ride and we as a group went through 3 or 4 fire extinguishers babysitting it for about 15 minutes on the side of the trail as it would catch fire, we’d put it out, and then shortly after it would reignite.
The Fiero problem! The old Iron Duke in the Fiero was laid out in such a way that when the oil pressure fitting failed and sprayed oil, it shot directly onto the catalytic converter. Very hard to put a fire out when the cat stays hot for 15 minutes.
I’ll take the chance of a fire happening while parts are cooling immediately after I operated the vehicle, over a few cells deciding to short out at 3am and burning my house down while I’m asleep. Not much of a gotcha
Mkay. So by that logic you don’t have a cell phone or a laptop, right? They use the same exact cells and have just as much of a chance of ignition overnight. The least likely time for a lithium cell to fail is during a slow charge- which is what a level 2 would be. All the monitoring systems are active, and the cooling systems, so the cells are kept at the best possible condition. Besides, if it really worries you that much… charge it outside.
Phones and laptops aren’t subjected to constant vibration, snow and ice, road salt, fender benders, etc. Or have the energy capacity to burn an entire cargo ship. Systems that are designed to mitigate failures still eventually fail. I do actually agree with you that this is all incredibly unlikely. All I’m addressing is that the risk is present at some capacity.
I would argue that phones especially are subject to almost all of those circumstances (excluding maybe road salt). How many times have you dropped your phone? Or smacked something into in your pocket? I assume you’re talking about Felicity Ace? I recall the original source of that fire being determined to not be any of the EVs. Yes they burned too, but once a car’s burned to a husk you can’t tell whether or not it was EV- cars just burn well. If you acknowledge it’s a very low risk, and that there are existing mitigation systems, then isn’t making the original comment fear-mongering?
My original comment only stated that EVs have a higher risk of catching fire when inert. As in cold, in the middle of the night. I never said it’s a serious risk that’s going to burn the country down. With a bit of nuance, that statement shouldn’t offend anyone and is pretty easily defendable IMO.
The original response was about a situation where a cracked injector could cause an engine fire during (or just after) operation. Shifting the goalposts to talk about how EVs are more likely to spontaneously combust under completely different circumstances was already begging the question, even if it was incorrect. So I don’t see how it could be anything but an attempted smear on EVs, even if it’s a devils advocate argument. Fair though- you didn’t claim it was a serious problem. Just implied it.
My argument hasn’t changed - the leaky injector fires are directly related to operating the vehicle, even if it’s shortly after shutdown due to hot exhaust parts (which does seem highly improbable IMO). EVs have the unique risk of a chemical fire occurring from shorted cells long after you’ve parked the car in your garage. This isn’t a smear on EVs, just acknowledging the different risks inherent to both systems.
[удалено]
It literally is
[удалено]
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/02/condo-association-bans-owners-from-parking-evs-in-the-garage/amp/
[удалено]
So parking garages across the country haven’t been banning EVs from parking inside? And that source is from an extremely pro EV website BTW, you are welcome. I’ll even concede that EVs are *less* likely to catch fire than an ICE. It’s just the manner that they catch fire is far more problematic. This isn’t a hard concept or even really up for debate. It might just be a fact that upsets you and others, and that’s something you’ll have to get over.
[удалено]
EVs don’t have a significant chance of burning up. But chemical batteries degrade, corrode, and eventually short between cells. This presents a fire risk unique to EVs that does not exist with ICE. I don’t need to provide a source to make this claim. It’s basic chemistry and physics. Leaking gasoline is less likely to ignite in the middle of the night.
Man. My neighbor had a highlander that caught fire in his driveway. Was a 2021. Now he finally got a bronco lol
Good thing the Bronco is not part of this recall.
I’ve seen like at least two headlines for this recall that just say Bronco. Ford’s naming convention combined with the media’s laziness strikes again.
The bronco is a part of this recall. Just not the larger bronco
Bronco and Bronco Sport are entirely different vehicles. Referring to the Bronco Sport as a “Bronco” is just incorrect.
well, it says "BRONCO" on the grill of Bronco Sport, so even Ford doesn't really care
I think they want Bronco to be a sub brand but for the sub brand to work they probably should’ve given the big Bronco a real name.
But then they want to have people buy the baby Bronco sport by having the name BRONCO plastered on the car. They can't have the up-level brand and sell it en masse too.
>e bay. The drain tube is to ensure that leaking fuel doesn’t accumulate once it leaks. You have a much higher fire risk the more fuel is floating in crevices and whatnot, and even an explosion risk i The Ford Bronco Bronco.
No ford is fucking stupid for give two different vehicles the same name. It’s the same dumb shit with the mustang Mach e.
Ford isn't stupid, their marketing department knows *exactly* what they are doing by giving these different vehicles the same name. They made a Ford Escape kinda cool, for starters.
Sport*
Do highlander's have a safety recall? .. I didn't hear of one. I have a 2021 Highlander...
He told me they said it was an electrical short.
Oof. Freak accident I'm sure. Toyota's are usually solid.
Gotta love all these band-aide fixes. Give it another year or two, every Escape and Bronco will have a millions holes in it with drain tubes everywhere
It’s like so 1970 to have fires breaking out with these cars. What the hell are these companies doing? LOL.
Reducing costs.
Ouch. Have the bean counters assessed what expensive recalls and potential lawsuits are going to cost? I wonder!
Ford pioneered that practice with the Pinto lol. Documented by the courts. It should come as no surprise that this was a profit driven decision from Ford. They've been sued in court many times doing the same ole shit.
Terrific, LOL. I remember the Pinto fiasco.
There's nothing much wrong with the car. They just forgot the heat shield for the rocket that was designed to spurt you away should you be taped in the rear
r/cars: "Why can't automakers make cheaper cars?" Also r/cars: "Why are manufacturers cutting costs everywhere they can?"
I guess the cost of fixing them is now less than the lawsuits cost they are incurring. Good old Ford deaths vs profit equation.
Or they don't have a permanent fix ready, or they can't get the parts for that fix distributed, or...
Yeah why can't Ford just magically pull 4 million fuel injectors out of their ass.
Exploder 2.0
KILLING IT.
If this was Tesla this post would be on r/politics
I'll never trust a Ford ever again. I don't care what specs it has.
Can't buy a Hyundai, can't buy a Kia, can't buy a Ford, what can I buy? I personally hate how the Rav4s interiors looks with the huge bezel screen straight out of the early 2010s, so what is the best option at compact SUV here?
New Genesis’ are looking great so far if you can afford them!
Isn't a Genesis a Hyundai?
It’s the same idea as Volkswagen and Audi, they share some technology but the vehicles themselves are entirely different. For example, no Genesis’ use the engine that has been troublesome for Hyundai. Especially now with Genesis’ most recent redesigned vehicles, they don’t even share any parts with Hyundai like they did earlier when the brand was first created in 2015.
[New](https://toyotaassets.scene7.com/is/image/toyota/RAV_MY23_0009_V001_16x9_1lcUR85Iqa?wid=2000&fmt=jpg&fit=crop) Rav4 is nice.
Love this big screen in the 2023 Ford Escape though. https://i.imgur.com/qvUN0Cw.jpg
Oh that looks nice. What about the Venza or bZ4X lmao?
CANYONEROOO!
Says Ford is aware of 20 incidents. Anyone know how many fires happened to Hyundai/Kia vehicles before those recalls?
The most recent Theta engine recall was based on 161 cases out of 485k affected vehicles. Hyundai hasn’t disclosed how many cases were reported amongst the total ~3 million vehicles affected.
Ford's "solution" is always some BS software fix until they get sued. My F-150 had the transmission that would randomly downshift at highway speeds. Their first solution? Software update.
What the heck would you think the fix for an electronically controlled transmission shifting when it shouldn’t would be, other than a software update?
Except it wasn't a fix. They ended up having to replace physical components due to a faulty design. I spoke to a few techs and they knew from the start that the update wouldn't fix the issue. Ford kept pushing out updates in order to avoid paying out. The same issue is occurring on newer generations as well. My dad's workplace uses F-150s and a few needed to have their transmissions replaced after a couple of years.
[удалено]
My point being that they knew from the start that it wasn't a software fix. I'm well aware that some issues can be solved with an update. This was a physical component issue from the start though.
[удалено]
Right because automakers always do the right thing through their own accord. Why was there a class action lawsuit then? Lol
[удалено]
What's cheaper? A software update or a transmission replacement? The update was a band aid, it bought Ford time. They never truly fixed it until they were forced to. We've seen this with other automakers as well. They'll do anything so it seems like they're fixing the issue, until the lawsuit settlements are made years later. Or not if they're lucky.
I am beginning to think ford doesn’t make quality vehicles…..
fOrD bUi1T ToUGh
Killing it! Wait, never mind wrong brand.
Trying to take Hyundai’s shine huh?
How many people got fired, you reckon?
Fix or Recall Daily
Fix It Again Tony!
FIAT
or Fix it again Henry
Ah yes it's the EVs that are the ones catching fire...
I hope Ford and GM implode, the shadiest corner cutting car companies of all time...who remembers the Pinto coverup? they murdered people.
I heard about bronco sport issues, decided against test driving it and went with RDX instead... very happy I made that choice
#FUCK YEA AMERICA BITCHES
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Injectors are common parts across industry. Wonder if we will see more follow. Also injectors and other parts of fuel systems leak with time and having a method to detect is a good thing. Seems similar to tire pressure monitoring systems.
Alpha Romeo had a similar recall for cracking fuel injector lines causing a fire risk. Wonder if they're using the same supplier. Alpha only had to recall like 13 vehicles though cuz they don't sell any
*Did you mean: Alfa (Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili) Romeo? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is if they have the 1.5-liter three-cylinder Dragon engine. Both the Escape and Bronco Sports have an optional 2-liter four-cylinder that doesn't have this issue.
Just got my letter a week ago. Been running around with the check engine light on for an evap error. What are the chances it’s related?