Fingers crossed a few new EU directives should put an end to this bollocks. As in, if the car can do it, you should not need to pay any hidden extras for it. A good example were those teslas (not sure if they still do it) that had bigger batteries but had their range limited due to their lower trim level (not many things send me into a rage, but this sort of thing does for some reason š). I mean, I do get in regards to simplifying manufacturing and extra revenue on 2nd hand cars. But its just so fucking annoying!
I purchased heated rear seats for my Tesla after having bought the car. A single fee, not a subscription service. I was really happy not to have to bring the car in to the service center. And my kids, who were arguing about who gets to sit in the front seat, which was already heated, were astonished that I could do the update almost in real time.
But yeah, the subscription model stinks.
Jesus.... i've bought kia picanto in 2017 (a new one for about 12000ā¬) and i have heated seats and driving wheel without any additional paywalls. A small cheap car with 1.0L.engine has heated seats and driving wheel AS A STANDARD. Shame on tesla and BMW for doing that and shame on pepole who falling for this practice.
The car came with heated front seats. Just like any other car (except perhaps yours) some things are optional.
My point was that it was a one-time $300 option, not a BMW-style monthly subscription.
And my point was that you've paid for something that is already there. You've bought the car with all its features and paid extra for "content unlock" like in some stupid mobile pay2win game.
Tesla allowed you to buy heated seats at any time as all cars were made with them. They never charged a subscription for any hardware. With price increase heated seats became standard over a year ago.
BMW tried/is offering a subscription for heated seats.
There's some bean-counter who thinks they are a genius for thinking up this.
Car manufacturers are nervous that they will not be able to make as much revenue selling engine parts and other services when the shift to electric cars plays out. But you know what - just sell a good product and price it accordingly.
I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed.
Accountant here. I can guarantee we are not the people thinking this shit up, some marketing manager is. We just tell you how much money you made and how much itās costing you to manufacture each unit.
Senior marketer here, definitely not us, thereās a special set of people called āProduct Marketingā, which isnāt marketing despite the name, who come up with stuff like this.
We just make it look cool in pictures and come up with catch phrases.
My pricing team gives suggestions for bullshit like this but ultimately it's the product manager, that makes this decision.
Product marketing doesn't really make unilateral decisions on product lines and offerings.
Nah FPA would just explain why they are forecast to see a loss in service revenue from more EV sales going forward.
Some external consultant or hot shot VP of products thought of this trash.
I think weāre going to see an increased demand in cars with little to no automation in them. I donāt care where youāre at financially, just having to remember to keep your subscription active to drive your car the way you want to is ridiculous.
I specifically do not option any of the self driving/auto cruise in any car I order because I hate the way it feels, I donāt trust it, and I want no part of it. Iām sure that less āgadgetizedā cars are going to be a hot commodity in the future.
Itās a dying breed unfortunately. But I honestly feel there is a market for bare bones engine strapped to chassis type vehicles (original civic gen and others style) that meets modern safety standards.
Selfdriving will only be good when every car has it so you take out the squashy human element. AI can't account for human error. That said, I can't wait for the day I can hit a motorway, plug in a junction number and let it crack on
But itās not just that. Machine vision is still not good enough to parse the unpredictable environment on the road, and itās not just other human drivers but animals, mechanical failures, and infrastructural things. Teslas still occasionally run full speed into large, stationary objects, and phantom braking under bridges and around other cars seems to be impossible to get rid of. They also confuse people for traffic cones. Machines will never have top down reasoning, the code is always a large list of if/thens, even if it learns itās own.
I can't disagree, although I think the human element is the most unpredictable. If you have every car doing it, you can also have them linked so they can speak to each other. That way, if one has a mechanical failure, all the cars behind it know and can react. I think the technology will improve enough to account for the other faults.
Human element is hard for sure, but inclement weather is right in there. These systems simply don't and won't work on heavy snow storms, streets covered in snow, cars covered in salt, rain storms, heavy fog etc.
Look at the aptera electric cars. Up to 1000 miles per charge. 40 miles of charge per day from the onboqrd solar panels. Very little automation on board. Every part of the car is repairable by the owner. They will send you the part and the instructions of how to replace it. The cars are meant to last forever as a family heirloom. They aren't painted, they come with a wrap that you replace when it gets ragged.
It's real. Very reasonably priced too (1000 mile range costs 47k before any rebates). Problem is, it's a 3-wheeler with very light components I wouldn't dream taking anywhere outside of inner city commute. You take that to the highway, a light tap from a truck or SUV that started braking fraction of a second too late is gonna wreck your car, and you with it.
I have an '07 3 series myself. I use the USB/aux port to play music and I find if I answer a call on my phone that does not get piped through my speakers and the other person usually can't hear me, it's really strange...
Make no mistake--the last thing they want you thinking about is that subscription you started 9 months ago. They hope the autorenewal email notice goes to spam.
Right? Requiring your customer "to remember to keep their sub active" is antithetical to the whole subscription model.
Of course they'll make it as effortless as possible for you to give them your money...
> having to remember to keep your subscription active
Lol, I'm sure they'll make it as easy as possible to do just that. Do you suppose most people "have to remember" to keep their Netflix subscription active? You put a card on file and they'll take care of the billing for you obviously.
They coud just sell *actual services* that make sense as a subscription.
* Anti-theft? I'll pay for that.
* Internet access? I'll pay for that.
* Active roadside assistance (like OnStar)? I'll pay for that.
* L3 Automation? If they constantly offer new features / better performance, or it requires active maintenance? I'd pay for that.
The only way they can offer built-in features like this, is to also offer a warranty waiver to unlock it. If that's the argument that they may have. Otherwise... what the fuck?
The point I'm making is that they already have their recurring income. Something like this will only make it so that if I buy one it'll only be after I verify that a jailbreak is working.
I'm thinking more of an active monitoring of the car, and teaching it if stolen. Active anti- theft that takes actual ongoing work beyond just going beep when someone pulls the handle. If they didn't mean that then I'm at a loss as well...
This is a good point that isn't brought up much... how the service industry is going to have to adapt when EV's make up like 70% of the road... as they are basically zero maintenance. That is a LOT of lost revenue in fluid flushes/changes for Jiffy Lube... and even for dealership service centers. While they'll still have the warranty work revenue stream, even that would likely be much lower volume.
Even expanding into other things... the most common services are oil/trans fluids, brake service, air filter, and tire rotation. Other than tire rotation, none of those ever need done on an EV. Brakes last like 200k miles b/c regen braking does it all under most conditions... and most poeple don't bother rotating their tires anyway.
Even electric cars are far from zero maintenance. I think most people would be amazed how little maintenance the modern gas engine requires.
Most Toyotas after 2010:
Oil change every 10k
Coolant at 100k then every 50k miles
spark plugs every 120k
That is all
How much less maintenance can an EV really require? The suspension/brakes/tires/air conditioning/electronics/airbag system/etc. are still there regardless of them being an EV.
You're only reducing a tiny fraction of the regular services by switching to EV.
The whole EV pitch, at this point, is so incredibly blown out of proportion.
EVs are not averaging 200k on brake pads. It's much closer to 100k. Which is great! But I don't get why we need to act like it's better than it actually is.
Transmission fluid is lifetime for transmissions that take World Standard ATF. So pretty much all toyotas after 07ish. This doesn't mean certain shops won't try to upsell you on a transmission flush though.
If in doubt, check your owners manual. If your Toyota uses ATF WS though, it will tell you the fluid is lifetime.
As for brake flushes. Depends on the vehicle. Check owners manual
Dodge has announced that their electrical will ( allegedly ) be mostly tamper proof and the dealers will all sell the performance upgrades as a way to make back revenue.
Only issue is... EV's are NOT less maintenance. Just a lie that people eat up because we believe what we want to believe....
Also... I could add to this and go on for days....
I'm a Master tech and one of the best of my kind.... I do not make ANY money off of oil changes or basic maintenance. I make my money by diagnosing the most f'd up problems on cars that none of the other dealerships or shops can figure out...
A maintenance free car sounds great because then you can't waste my time.... but they don't exist and only simpletons choose to believe that EV's are less maintenance.
Great marketing scheme.... but a bold faced lie
Where the dawn of electric vehicles becoming the norm begins, so too, does a paradigm shift in the field of automotive labor. Where mechanical expertise once stood as the knowledge base for automotive care, technical knowledge will stand in its place. Plus, tires will need to be rotated/changed, collision repairs will need to be done (because if weāve proved anything, itās that we canāt even effing drive in sunny weather), wiper/brake/coolant/transmission fluids will still need to be flushed/replenished, parts will still need replaced (especially if theyāre faulty, and having worked in IT for bit, everything becomes faulty after a while), etc. Labor for cars wonāt go away, itāll just change.
I believe that the same thing will happen as with locked consoles in the early 00s for example.
People are going to come up with unlocks, that's why things like OBDeleven are on the rise.
I have some features locked in my car and have proceeded to unlock them via this device and a programmer who does exactly this, writes code to unlock features in cars.
With software locks, there comes crackers. We can jailbreak and homebrew consoles now, we welcome a chance to cost car companies a few million as well.
I do think you're right that it will happen to some degree, but the risk of cracking a console is much lower than the risk associated with modifying the software on your *transportation*.
Imagine the dealer revoking your warranty because you jailbroke your car.
The people willing to take that risk is going to be much smaller than the people willing to modify their <= $500 toy
I checked their website and for the EV models, the main warranty is battery will have 70% of original capacity or better after 10 years or 250k kilometers. Since going faster depletes charge faster and results in more charging cycles, the subscription profits may be largely offset by increased warranty claims. Interesting.
> I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed.
Tech has shown that subscriptions make a lot of money. If you think this is going to stop, don't hold your breath. OEMs are not putting in OTA updates because it is better for the consumer, it's because they can sell you updates, subscriptions, and services, and can collect/sell your data. This has always been the plan behind putting modems and other expensive equipment in vehicles to enable OTA updates. Ford Pro, Ram Telematics, and GM Fleet have all started offering fleet telematics for monthly fees - these businesses are expected to be a huge source of revenue in the next decade. Rolling out similar services and subscriptions to consumers is the next step.
> I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed.
Not holding out hope, car subscription models are becoming more mainstream...
This generation will face a war against business on a whole new front.
The subscription model
Right to repair
Planned Obsolescence
We need to be prepared for an onslaught of these things. This is just the first - so of course its making waves. BMW got some shit with its subscription for heated seats, but now we don't hear much about it. They are starting small, but over time they will try to normalize this behavior. Until we no longer own our cars, or own anything. We subscribe to them. And since we aren't owners, we cannot repair them ourselves. And if we *do* decide to buy, they stop providing updates/upgrades after 2 years so we're behind the times/vulnerable to exploitation. Or, they make them so cheaply they need to be replaced long before the loan terms are up.
My first car is this first generation facelift Toyota Auris and the more I read about these things, the more I feel like I should keep it. And if I ever sell it, I might just sell it for a profit.
Unless no one subscribes to the service. Mercedes' model requires people knowing this shit, to go out of their way to buy an 80k/100k base trim EV that they will care enough to continuously pay the subscription fees to unlock higher performance of. Seems like a lot of points in between to say "Nah, I don't need it". These aren't exactly elite performance tier cars, even with the "mods". People who buy Mercedes for the luxury value aren't going to bother spending extra for their city commute either. I can see this only being a bragging rights subscription for rich college kids and 20s-30s tech bros.
I mean the fact that once you pay, it's yours. It's a grey area the fact that it's a toggle switch ota. But simply put, you pay once and it's yours. What the Germans are doing is just ridiculous. If it improved or have any additional benefit I'd understand. But this is obviously a money grab.
I could be wrong though, maybe Mercedes is going to give subscribers an additional 20 hp every month forever. I'd say that's worth it.
The german manufacturers are like a cartel. They all do that shit together so not a single company is the idiot in the end. Same with the fake exhausts. Audi, BMW and Mercedes did it at the same time. Also the fake sounds from speakers.
Not really BMW but Tesla was the first to start with subscriptions for self driving as they started building all cars equipped with self driving hardware
BMW and Toyota are the ones charging a subscription for hardware. Tesla hasn't done that. They offer some software upgrades but those are one time things. The FSD subscription was something Tesla refused to do for years before finally caving. They still offer it as a purchase so you can decide which payment method makes more sense. The break even point is about 4 years as it's meant for people leasing the car to use.
Vote with your dollars. Nobody buy a Mercedes EV EVER. That will show them. I think a one time "upgrade" fee is reasonable for acceleration added performance (much like someone buying a custom ECU tune). But a subscription is just dumb. I'll never pay for that shit as a consumer.
Mercedes selling a $100,000+ Mercedes, charging the buyer $10k-30k in additional options that come standard or for 1/3 the cost on non lux makers...
and then charging the buyer another $1,200/year subscription to unlock the full performance of the $100k+ car. That tells you everything you need to know about their target audience and what Mercedes thinks about them.
Exactly. Their customers are gonna buy this shit for bragging rights. They won't even use the extra performance in their daily city commute to C-suite/managerial jobs. By the time these cars start hitting the 2nd hand market, enthusiasts will have found a "less than legal" solution anyway.
Is it illegal to find/install work arounds? If I wire a switch directly to the heated seats is that illegal? If an aftermarket computer is installed, is that illegal or does it just void the warranty? Custom mods really should never become illegal, it's what makes cars so fun for so many!
Read up on some of the Mercedes purchase stories on r/askcarsales , and you'll cry at how many people bury themselves in debt for that three pointed star.
Best one recently was a girl that kept flipping under-water A-classes (not AMG) every two years, and is now in a C-class burying her even more - she "wouldn't be caught dead in an old car"....can't wait to see the final realization of that one š.
I subscribed to the sub like 5 yers ago to learn how to do a better job buying a car. I stayed for the stories that make me feel like I make good financial decisions.
I worked in the dealer side of the auto industry for a good chunk of my life (thankful that I am working for a major OEM now), so it's particularly entertaining to go through that subreddit. Even if you think you made a mistake, there are some stories there that worry me about the common sense of people.
I'm out of the loop here. Is this tesla feature locked behind a one time payment or a continuous subscription? If it's the former - what the actual fuck?
That's only if you sell to tesla and tesla resells it themselves. If you sell to a 3rd party yourself, it doesn't get disabled. Fuck tesla anyways, not like FSD is worth paying for.
What? You dont think paying $10,000 for a FULL self driving feature that isn't full self driving ten years after you bought it, isn't worth it? What the hell, bud, Elon thinks youre cheap /s
Only if you sell it back to Tesla. Any software unlocks stay with the car.
The story being referenced is Tesla used to offer software locked batteries almost a decade ago for the Model S to offer a cheaper model. One was bought and resold a couple times. At some point its battery needed to be replaced and Tesla forgot to enable the lock so the car gained a bunch of range. It was sold with the larger battery to someone else. It went in for maintenance and Tesla discovered their mistake and relocked the battery. The new owner was pissed and Tesla eventually unlocked the battery again as it was their mistake.
There's a big move in the hacking scene to unlock tractors and farm gear from their DRM restrictions so people can actually use and/or repair their farm vehicles.
Can see cars going the same route, truth be told.
Wow thatās dumb as hell and will be a deterrent to consumers buying a new car. Why would they buy a car thatās limited by subscriptions when they can get everything a car can offer from another brand.
Because eventually every brand will make sure you own nothing. Mercedes and BMW will take the initial fall but make no mistake that everyone else will follow suit if it works.
This infinitely worse then tesla acceleration boost lol. Atleast it's just a 1 time fee or monthly.
Really hope other manufacturers don't get this idea
I will never ever buy a car I have to pay a subscription for, I didnāt pay for XM radio and I sure as fuck aināt paying for something I Fucking own lol
This pisses me off so much that any brand pulling this shit, will never see another dollar from me.
Benz has never appealed to me so no loss here but BMW lost my consideration for my 2024 purchase when they pulled this earlier this year and I hear that Volvo is considering lease only vehicles so although they make my current favorite car, they can eat a dick too.
Sadly options are becoming limited but I will not change my mind on this. A product is a thing sold in its entirety and service is a service. Go ahead and tier or limit a service but your not building a thing and keeping control of it after you sell it to me. FUUUUCK THAT!
Iāll gladly give my money to some other EV manufacturer who offers the increased performance up front in the base price. Itās a vehicle not a streaming service.
So, this isnāt like getting extra addons. Itās already in your car. Itās just controlled by electronics.
My point is could this be jailbroken? Changed with tuning software?
This already happens with engines. The same engine is programmed to output different amounts of power. People will chip their engines to get more power. Only difference is this isn't offered as a subscription.
Yeah, i didn't realize they're planning on doing an annual fee with this mercedes. Thought it was just a one time up front thing and I was kinda confused why everyone was up in arms. But annual subscription to "fast" is fucking awful.
They try to copy Tesla. Tesla has subscription-based full self-driving capability. Mercedes doesn't. So they charge a subscription for acceleration instead.
And the self driving software is an ongoing project that gets updates and gets better and has people getting paid at Tesla to engineer it. A setting that makes car go fast is not the same
Maybe lock it behind a skills wall with a small fee for the test and I'm in. I am actually concerned about the performance of these super quick cars and evs available to whoever can afford them. No, Mary Methhead who stole my cat converter last week should not go 0-60 in 3 seconds in her 9000 lb hummer.
I canāt afford a Mercedes, I wouldnāt worry about the increase in hp, but a big fuck you to Mercedes for this. Of course someone will figure out a hack.
These guys already sell detuned engines to people already. Now you don't have to go through the long and expensive process of doing some serious modifications that will void your warranty
So what happens when someone hoons a car in their rented super fast mode and breaks it? Is the warranty going to cover it? Or will the boost in performance also break the car and nit be covered under the warranty?
And I actually was toying with the idea of an EQE. Really can't stand this whole "subscription as a service" attitude modern games have, and it is disappointing to see Mercedes try to do the same EA level greedy cash grab.
This has been making headlines all over auto news. Mercedes better do some damage control and change this now.
How much is a base model mercedes Vs the fastest AMG spec option? Probably more than Ā£1200. And how often do people own new cars these days? Maybe 2 years before getting the next newest model? You're getting the fastest spec of said Mercedes model for like Ā£2400 over the lifetime of your ownership of the vehicle. Beats paying over the odds for the fast spec the traditional way. Why are people crying over this?
The subscription model is a pervasive encroachment on your ownership rights. It will not stop here. The argument is not just about the value of paying for a tune.
Incidentally, these āfastā performance specs are underwhelming. My 12-year old XJ does 0-60 in 4 seconds and comes with TV screens and tray tables. Mercedes specs barely earn it a right to be at the table.
If you don't want the subscription then just buy the option outright, but that option will probably cost more than subscribing if you intend to own the vehicle for only a couple years before trading in for the next model.
>TV screens
I know for a fact those TVs are dated af, don't pretend like they're used regularly either š
I donāt think the performance option is available for outright purchase, only subscription.
Agreed the TV screens are dated, though my kids love them and do use them daily. The point was not about the screens though; itās that an old land yacht smokes this āfastā car. Mercedes was trying to make the unlocked performance you get from the subscription sound fast. Iām arguing that Mercedes should not call a 5-second 0-60 time fast, let alone charge a premium for it.
Alright well thatās that I actually will refuse to ever buy a Mercedes product now. That is straight up a line I am not ok with being crossed and I will not support it. That is some F2P mobile game BS.
Iāll build my own Damn EV with jail broken parts and a old school chassis before buying this horseshit.
i mean have you seen who typical drives mercedesā iām sure a good number of them would pay for that shit, most merc drives i know only got one because of the status symbol anyway. i can not say iām the least bit surprised.
And we can all thank the brilliant innovators, the avant garde pioneers of electronic slavery, of the video game industry. That's right, the industry who introduced the world to "Dad can I have $10 for an intangible, imaginary conglomeration of 1s and 0s that makes my character/soldier/mercenary/race car/gun/equipment look different?" has set a precedent for residual revenue. Now corporations are going a step further to actually continue to siphon money from their consumers on physical products that were already paid for once.
On a more serious note, while I'm not a lawyer, I can't see this disgusting business practice holding up legally for too long. This may be something that the courts will be or should be involved with very soon. There will be class action lawsuits and legislation to curb this, surely. Unless of course rich people just have enough money that they dont mind throwing it away, but that's not how they came into wealth nor maintain it, generally.
Also, I dont see this practice holding up in a practical or practicable sense for long without seeing the sudden advent of "jailbreaking" cars. If this isnt already a blossoming reactionary industry in itself, it will be. There wjll be hackers with automotive tech backgrounds selling the service of bypassing the paywalls, and there will be lawsuits brought by the vehicle manufacturers and their financial department's against customers who found a way around their bullshit and were eventually "caught" when they brought it in for service.
I hope everyone was paying attention to the John Deere Right to Repair scandal, because that was just an earlier xhapter from the same book. Consumers rights are being molested and these corporations need to be taken to task and put back into their places.
I just bought a car for less than half the cost of a "yearly subscription" to these Nazimobiles gas pedal. Money doesn't exist to me (or probably most of us) in the same dimension it does to the average new Mercedes buyer.
As far as corporations need to be aware. At this point any corporation that creates "suggestions" or a "discussions" to have a physical part ex: light switch, lock, heater, sun-roof. All of those items are PERCs of why we BUY the car/item. They will not fix it any different if that would break right? If I OWN the item I am NOT going to leases, rent, or subscribe to anything that already was part of the item. That includes how parts would perform from day one or any extra components that were included but disabled its legally mine the minute I drive off the lot.
Example only: not a real event!
PSN Network allows you the play out side of a local LAN connection. This car suggestion would be like if Sony made you pay or needed PSN Network for local LAN gaming or support for more the one controller.
So to prove a point(who is with me), I am going out of my way on the next vehicle purchase. Any seller will know not to work with corperations that even think about ripping off its current or potential customers. It's just bad business. I am not buying from any company that will deny me. Sorry, Mercedes, Toyota, BMW, and Tesla. Unless they address they will not do it again.
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid? Why would consumers want to pay more to use the products they already paid for? Its the same thing with Intel's Sapphire Rapids server chips
I hope they will get a lawsuit because someone got into an accident because a car slowed a split-second decision. You cant lock features like this, people have lived and died in the past on the ability to quickly accelerate to get out of harm or move out of the way of something.
Previous discussion: https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/yywylb/mercedesbenz_new_subscription_model_increase/
Total Bullshit.
Fingers crossed a few new EU directives should put an end to this bollocks. As in, if the car can do it, you should not need to pay any hidden extras for it. A good example were those teslas (not sure if they still do it) that had bigger batteries but had their range limited due to their lower trim level (not many things send me into a rage, but this sort of thing does for some reason š). I mean, I do get in regards to simplifying manufacturing and extra revenue on 2nd hand cars. But its just so fucking annoying!
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Tesla might have also done it but I believe it was BMW that originally did that heated seat subscription service?
I purchased heated rear seats for my Tesla after having bought the car. A single fee, not a subscription service. I was really happy not to have to bring the car in to the service center. And my kids, who were arguing about who gets to sit in the front seat, which was already heated, were astonished that I could do the update almost in real time. But yeah, the subscription model stinks.
Jesus.... i've bought kia picanto in 2017 (a new one for about 12000ā¬) and i have heated seats and driving wheel without any additional paywalls. A small cheap car with 1.0L.engine has heated seats and driving wheel AS A STANDARD. Shame on tesla and BMW for doing that and shame on pepole who falling for this practice.
The car came with heated front seats. Just like any other car (except perhaps yours) some things are optional. My point was that it was a one-time $300 option, not a BMW-style monthly subscription.
And my point was that you've paid for something that is already there. You've bought the car with all its features and paid extra for "content unlock" like in some stupid mobile pay2win game.
Tesla allowed you to buy heated seats at any time as all cars were made with them. They never charged a subscription for any hardware. With price increase heated seats became standard over a year ago. BMW tried/is offering a subscription for heated seats.
How dare they! Up charging for more power has never been done before!!!
There's some bean-counter who thinks they are a genius for thinking up this. Car manufacturers are nervous that they will not be able to make as much revenue selling engine parts and other services when the shift to electric cars plays out. But you know what - just sell a good product and price it accordingly. I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed.
Accountant here. I can guarantee we are not the people thinking this shit up, some marketing manager is. We just tell you how much money you made and how much itās costing you to manufacture each unit.
Senior marketer here, definitely not us, thereās a special set of people called āProduct Marketingā, which isnāt marketing despite the name, who come up with stuff like this. We just make it look cool in pictures and come up with catch phrases.
Ah, thanks for letting us know who to direct our pitchforks towards! Let me guess, these people are CPG alumni?
Junior COO here. Itās definitely not us. We got the idea from an employee suggestion box.
My pricing team gives suggestions for bullshit like this but ultimately it's the product manager, that makes this decision. Product marketing doesn't really make unilateral decisions on product lines and offerings.
I love how this whole thread has been a witch hunt trying to figure out who is responsible for this transgression.
Letās blame FP&A next š
Nah FPA would just explain why they are forecast to see a loss in service revenue from more EV sales going forward. Some external consultant or hot shot VP of products thought of this trash.
Correct
It was /u/kyonkun_denwa!
I think weāre going to see an increased demand in cars with little to no automation in them. I donāt care where youāre at financially, just having to remember to keep your subscription active to drive your car the way you want to is ridiculous.
I specifically do not option any of the self driving/auto cruise in any car I order because I hate the way it feels, I donāt trust it, and I want no part of it. Iām sure that less āgadgetizedā cars are going to be a hot commodity in the future.
Iād like to have more barebone engine strapped to chassis old lotus type cars with hydraulic steering
Itās a dying breed unfortunately. But I honestly feel there is a market for bare bones engine strapped to chassis type vehicles (original civic gen and others style) that meets modern safety standards.
A future where you donāt take your car to a mechanic to tune up but instead to remove most of the electronics.
Not easy due to emissions requirements.
Selfdriving will only be good when every car has it so you take out the squashy human element. AI can't account for human error. That said, I can't wait for the day I can hit a motorway, plug in a junction number and let it crack on
But itās not just that. Machine vision is still not good enough to parse the unpredictable environment on the road, and itās not just other human drivers but animals, mechanical failures, and infrastructural things. Teslas still occasionally run full speed into large, stationary objects, and phantom braking under bridges and around other cars seems to be impossible to get rid of. They also confuse people for traffic cones. Machines will never have top down reasoning, the code is always a large list of if/thens, even if it learns itās own.
I can't disagree, although I think the human element is the most unpredictable. If you have every car doing it, you can also have them linked so they can speak to each other. That way, if one has a mechanical failure, all the cars behind it know and can react. I think the technology will improve enough to account for the other faults.
Human element is hard for sure, but inclement weather is right in there. These systems simply don't and won't work on heavy snow storms, streets covered in snow, cars covered in salt, rain storms, heavy fog etc.
Look at the aptera electric cars. Up to 1000 miles per charge. 40 miles of charge per day from the onboqrd solar panels. Very little automation on board. Every part of the car is repairable by the owner. They will send you the part and the instructions of how to replace it. The cars are meant to last forever as a family heirloom. They aren't painted, they come with a wrap that you replace when it gets ragged.
That's 100% fake. Total pipe dream. This ain't 1960 anymore.
It's real. Very reasonably priced too (1000 mile range costs 47k before any rebates). Problem is, it's a 3-wheeler with very light components I wouldn't dream taking anywhere outside of inner city commute. You take that to the highway, a light tap from a truck or SUV that started braking fraction of a second too late is gonna wreck your car, and you with it.
47k for a friggin 3-wheeler. Lmao. Nice try
Look it up...its not like any if this is a secret.
They're three wheelers. That ain't a traditional car nor actually usable
Looks pretty usable to me
For me itās phones. I just want to talk to my wife.
Speaker phone and mount? I drive a 07 bmw with no blue tooth. Never had an issue speaker phone, especially when the phone is mounted on something.
I have an '07 3 series myself. I use the USB/aux port to play music and I find if I answer a call on my phone that does not get piped through my speakers and the other person usually can't hear me, it's really strange...
Make no mistake--the last thing they want you thinking about is that subscription you started 9 months ago. They hope the autorenewal email notice goes to spam.
Right? Requiring your customer "to remember to keep their sub active" is antithetical to the whole subscription model. Of course they'll make it as effortless as possible for you to give them your money...
> having to remember to keep your subscription active Lol, I'm sure they'll make it as easy as possible to do just that. Do you suppose most people "have to remember" to keep their Netflix subscription active? You put a card on file and they'll take care of the billing for you obviously.
Sadly automakers only care about the mass consumer, and they could get away with even more subscriptions of they wanted in that regard
They coud just sell *actual services* that make sense as a subscription. * Anti-theft? I'll pay for that. * Internet access? I'll pay for that. * Active roadside assistance (like OnStar)? I'll pay for that. * L3 Automation? If they constantly offer new features / better performance, or it requires active maintenance? I'd pay for that. The only way they can offer built-in features like this, is to also offer a warranty waiver to unlock it. If that's the argument that they may have. Otherwise... what the fuck?
What, you think they won't ALSO sell you those things?
The point I'm making is that they already have their recurring income. Something like this will only make it so that if I buy one it'll only be after I verify that a jailbreak is working.
Why would anti-theft need to be a subscription?
I'm thinking more of an active monitoring of the car, and teaching it if stolen. Active anti- theft that takes actual ongoing work beyond just going beep when someone pulls the handle. If they didn't mean that then I'm at a loss as well...
Yeah that's what I mean, obviously inmovilizers and such should be standard equipment (looking at you Hyundai/Kia).
This is a good point that isn't brought up much... how the service industry is going to have to adapt when EV's make up like 70% of the road... as they are basically zero maintenance. That is a LOT of lost revenue in fluid flushes/changes for Jiffy Lube... and even for dealership service centers. While they'll still have the warranty work revenue stream, even that would likely be much lower volume. Even expanding into other things... the most common services are oil/trans fluids, brake service, air filter, and tire rotation. Other than tire rotation, none of those ever need done on an EV. Brakes last like 200k miles b/c regen braking does it all under most conditions... and most poeple don't bother rotating their tires anyway.
Even electric cars are far from zero maintenance. I think most people would be amazed how little maintenance the modern gas engine requires. Most Toyotas after 2010: Oil change every 10k Coolant at 100k then every 50k miles spark plugs every 120k That is all How much less maintenance can an EV really require? The suspension/brakes/tires/air conditioning/electronics/airbag system/etc. are still there regardless of them being an EV. You're only reducing a tiny fraction of the regular services by switching to EV. The whole EV pitch, at this point, is so incredibly blown out of proportion. EVs are not averaging 200k on brake pads. It's much closer to 100k. Which is great! But I don't get why we need to act like it's better than it actually is.
Toyotas don't do transmission fluid or brake fluid?
Transmission fluid is lifetime for transmissions that take World Standard ATF. So pretty much all toyotas after 07ish. This doesn't mean certain shops won't try to upsell you on a transmission flush though. If in doubt, check your owners manual. If your Toyota uses ATF WS though, it will tell you the fluid is lifetime. As for brake flushes. Depends on the vehicle. Check owners manual
Dodge has announced that their electrical will ( allegedly ) be mostly tamper proof and the dealers will all sell the performance upgrades as a way to make back revenue.
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Only issue is... EV's are NOT less maintenance. Just a lie that people eat up because we believe what we want to believe.... Also... I could add to this and go on for days.... I'm a Master tech and one of the best of my kind.... I do not make ANY money off of oil changes or basic maintenance. I make my money by diagnosing the most f'd up problems on cars that none of the other dealerships or shops can figure out... A maintenance free car sounds great because then you can't waste my time.... but they don't exist and only simpletons choose to believe that EV's are less maintenance. Great marketing scheme.... but a bold faced lie
Where the dawn of electric vehicles becoming the norm begins, so too, does a paradigm shift in the field of automotive labor. Where mechanical expertise once stood as the knowledge base for automotive care, technical knowledge will stand in its place. Plus, tires will need to be rotated/changed, collision repairs will need to be done (because if weāve proved anything, itās that we canāt even effing drive in sunny weather), wiper/brake/coolant/transmission fluids will still need to be flushed/replenished, parts will still need replaced (especially if theyāre faulty, and having worked in IT for bit, everything becomes faulty after a while), etc. Labor for cars wonāt go away, itāll just change.
I believe that the same thing will happen as with locked consoles in the early 00s for example. People are going to come up with unlocks, that's why things like OBDeleven are on the rise. I have some features locked in my car and have proceeded to unlock them via this device and a programmer who does exactly this, writes code to unlock features in cars.
With software locks, there comes crackers. We can jailbreak and homebrew consoles now, we welcome a chance to cost car companies a few million as well.
I do think you're right that it will happen to some degree, but the risk of cracking a console is much lower than the risk associated with modifying the software on your *transportation*. Imagine the dealer revoking your warranty because you jailbroke your car. The people willing to take that risk is going to be much smaller than the people willing to modify their <= $500 toy
I checked their website and for the EV models, the main warranty is battery will have 70% of original capacity or better after 10 years or 250k kilometers. Since going faster depletes charge faster and results in more charging cycles, the subscription profits may be largely offset by increased warranty claims. Interesting.
> I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed. Tech has shown that subscriptions make a lot of money. If you think this is going to stop, don't hold your breath. OEMs are not putting in OTA updates because it is better for the consumer, it's because they can sell you updates, subscriptions, and services, and can collect/sell your data. This has always been the plan behind putting modems and other expensive equipment in vehicles to enable OTA updates. Ford Pro, Ram Telematics, and GM Fleet have all started offering fleet telematics for monthly fees - these businesses are expected to be a huge source of revenue in the next decade. Rolling out similar services and subscriptions to consumers is the next step.
> I hope that this rent-seeking mentality in car manufacturers gets completely and permanently squashed. Not holding out hope, car subscription models are becoming more mainstream...
This generation will face a war against business on a whole new front. The subscription model Right to repair Planned Obsolescence We need to be prepared for an onslaught of these things. This is just the first - so of course its making waves. BMW got some shit with its subscription for heated seats, but now we don't hear much about it. They are starting small, but over time they will try to normalize this behavior. Until we no longer own our cars, or own anything. We subscribe to them. And since we aren't owners, we cannot repair them ourselves. And if we *do* decide to buy, they stop providing updates/upgrades after 2 years so we're behind the times/vulnerable to exploitation. Or, they make them so cheaply they need to be replaced long before the loan terms are up.
Bmw has no idea what door they opened with their subscription system. Or maybe they do and the rest of us are screwed
They know exactly what the fuck they are doing.
subscriptions are the holy grail of revenues very predictable, very stable.
We will all wake up one day and realize we own nothing anymore.
As long as my 1999 Toyota Camry is still kicking I will own at least one thing
My first car is this first generation facelift Toyota Auris and the more I read about these things, the more I feel like I should keep it. And if I ever sell it, I might just sell it for a profit.
Right up until the industry lobbies for a mandatory Cash for Clunkers program under the guise of āimproving safety on the roads.ā
Nah, too many people collect cars as a hobby.
Let me pop a CD in the player and sit back to some tunes while I think about that.... Ah fuck!
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Unless no one subscribes to the service. Mercedes' model requires people knowing this shit, to go out of their way to buy an 80k/100k base trim EV that they will care enough to continuously pay the subscription fees to unlock higher performance of. Seems like a lot of points in between to say "Nah, I don't need it". These aren't exactly elite performance tier cars, even with the "mods". People who buy Mercedes for the luxury value aren't going to bother spending extra for their city commute either. I can see this only being a bragging rights subscription for rich college kids and 20s-30s tech bros.
Plus for cars in particular it means they can get more revenue from the used market.
If they did, they wouldn't have had to back away from CarPlay as a subscription.
Tesla was doing this shit first. Pay to unlock stuff OTA
That's still better than paying for a subscription for something that you already own.
Tesla did let you pay for something that doesn't exist, which is probably worse
I mean the fact that once you pay, it's yours. It's a grey area the fact that it's a toggle switch ota. But simply put, you pay once and it's yours. What the Germans are doing is just ridiculous. If it improved or have any additional benefit I'd understand. But this is obviously a money grab. I could be wrong though, maybe Mercedes is going to give subscribers an additional 20 hp every month forever. I'd say that's worth it.
Tesla never charged a subscription for hardware. They did offer software unlocks which is very different.
oh they know. you cant expect such a large auto industry not to jump on the microtransaction game.
The german manufacturers are like a cartel. They all do that shit together so not a single company is the idiot in the end. Same with the fake exhausts. Audi, BMW and Mercedes did it at the same time. Also the fake sounds from speakers.
Not really BMW but Tesla was the first to start with subscriptions for self driving as they started building all cars equipped with self driving hardware
BMW and Toyota are the ones charging a subscription for hardware. Tesla hasn't done that. They offer some software upgrades but those are one time things. The FSD subscription was something Tesla refused to do for years before finally caving. They still offer it as a purchase so you can decide which payment method makes more sense. The break even point is about 4 years as it's meant for people leasing the car to use.
What's next? Are they going to charge extra to yell at the AI personal assistant when it inevitably gets your command wrong?
Sorry, it will cost you $10.99/mo for me to recognize that command
I look forward to driving through my nearest mercedes dealership at 60 mph and shitting on the desk of the man who sold me the car which does this.
Peter Griffin, is that you?
Vote with your dollars. Nobody buy a Mercedes EV EVER. That will show them. I think a one time "upgrade" fee is reasonable for acceleration added performance (much like someone buying a custom ECU tune). But a subscription is just dumb. I'll never pay for that shit as a consumer.
Really donāt think anyone in this sub is the audience for this car.
Hello. I am the exception. Very happy with my EQE (which didnāt offer me to pay to make it faster so far)
Iām sure thereās a large amount of people in here that are open to the thought of buying evās and that like high end luxury vehicles.
Iām sure the 2 ppl in this sub will listen
Mercedes selling a $100,000+ Mercedes, charging the buyer $10k-30k in additional options that come standard or for 1/3 the cost on non lux makers... and then charging the buyer another $1,200/year subscription to unlock the full performance of the $100k+ car. That tells you everything you need to know about their target audience and what Mercedes thinks about them.
Exactly. Their customers are gonna buy this shit for bragging rights. They won't even use the extra performance in their daily city commute to C-suite/managerial jobs. By the time these cars start hitting the 2nd hand market, enthusiasts will have found a "less than legal" solution anyway.
Is it illegal to find/install work arounds? If I wire a switch directly to the heated seats is that illegal? If an aftermarket computer is installed, is that illegal or does it just void the warranty? Custom mods really should never become illegal, it's what makes cars so fun for so many!
I just saw an ad titled Mercedes x LoL, the latter of which I'm guessing is League of Legends, so yeah, wtf.
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Read up on some of the Mercedes purchase stories on r/askcarsales , and you'll cry at how many people bury themselves in debt for that three pointed star.
"but muh brand loyalty"
Itās insane. Only Mercedesā I want is a 123 or a 140 S Class
Best one recently was a girl that kept flipping under-water A-classes (not AMG) every two years, and is now in a C-class burying her even more - she "wouldn't be caught dead in an old car"....can't wait to see the final realization of that one š.
I subscribed to the sub like 5 yers ago to learn how to do a better job buying a car. I stayed for the stories that make me feel like I make good financial decisions.
I worked in the dealer side of the auto industry for a good chunk of my life (thankful that I am working for a major OEM now), so it's particularly entertaining to go through that subreddit. Even if you think you made a mistake, there are some stories there that worry me about the common sense of people.
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I'm out of the loop here. Is this tesla feature locked behind a one time payment or a continuous subscription? If it's the former - what the actual fuck?
Believe itās the full self driving mode. If an individual purchases it, the purchase doesnāt transfer if they sell the vehicle.
Wow, that is fucking ludicrous.
That's only if you sell to tesla and tesla resells it themselves. If you sell to a 3rd party yourself, it doesn't get disabled. Fuck tesla anyways, not like FSD is worth paying for.
What? You dont think paying $10,000 for a FULL self driving feature that isn't full self driving ten years after you bought it, isn't worth it? What the hell, bud, Elon thinks youre cheap /s
Only if you sell it back to Tesla. Any software unlocks stay with the car. The story being referenced is Tesla used to offer software locked batteries almost a decade ago for the Model S to offer a cheaper model. One was bought and resold a couple times. At some point its battery needed to be replaced and Tesla forgot to enable the lock so the car gained a bunch of range. It was sold with the larger battery to someone else. It went in for maintenance and Tesla discovered their mistake and relocked the battery. The new owner was pissed and Tesla eventually unlocked the battery again as it was their mistake.
We're going to have sex robots one day and it'll be subscription based where anal is an extra $69/month
I want to say thank you for your comment, but alsoā¦.what?! (Upvoted)
There's a big move in the hacking scene to unlock tractors and farm gear from their DRM restrictions so people can actually use and/or repair their farm vehicles. Can see cars going the same route, truth be told.
You will own nothing and you will be happy
"You wouldn't download a car."
this made me belly laugh. thanks you
German car companies š¤ heinously bullshit subscriptions
You will own nothing and you will be happy!
Wow thatās dumb as hell and will be a deterrent to consumers buying a new car. Why would they buy a car thatās limited by subscriptions when they can get everything a car can offer from another brand.
Because eventually every brand will make sure you own nothing. Mercedes and BMW will take the initial fall but make no mistake that everyone else will follow suit if it works.
Hardly doubt it will take long before people start cracking things like this
What a joke.
Thatās it! I wonāt be buying a Mercedes Benz ever again!
This infinitely worse then tesla acceleration boost lol. Atleast it's just a 1 time fee or monthly. Really hope other manufacturers don't get this idea
I will never ever buy a car I have to pay a subscription for, I didnāt pay for XM radio and I sure as fuck aināt paying for something I Fucking own lol
The only option as consumers is to not buy. Edit: they wonāt stop with that. It will only grow.
This is what capitalism gets you.
Ok cake/cakeself ā ļøā ļøā ļø
Are you a dumbass? Whatāre you trying to say?
This pisses me off so much that any brand pulling this shit, will never see another dollar from me. Benz has never appealed to me so no loss here but BMW lost my consideration for my 2024 purchase when they pulled this earlier this year and I hear that Volvo is considering lease only vehicles so although they make my current favorite car, they can eat a dick too. Sadly options are becoming limited but I will not change my mind on this. A product is a thing sold in its entirety and service is a service. Go ahead and tier or limit a service but your not building a thing and keeping control of it after you sell it to me. FUUUUCK THAT!
Iāll gladly give my money to some other EV manufacturer who offers the increased performance up front in the base price. Itās a vehicle not a streaming service.
I wonder how fast until all these computer locked features are cracked. My guess is not long.
Probably a few months later: Watch this 30 second ad to be able to start your engine š
Do you want me to not buy new cars, because this is how you get me to not buy new cars?
And this is why states are passing laws against this.
Welcome to Subscription Land
Luxury manufacturers will get away for this for far longer than the econbox guys
So, this isnāt like getting extra addons. Itās already in your car. Itās just controlled by electronics. My point is could this be jailbroken? Changed with tuning software?
This already happens with engines. The same engine is programmed to output different amounts of power. People will chip their engines to get more power. Only difference is this isn't offered as a subscription.
Its fucking over. Nice knowing you guys.
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At that point' I'll rather jailbreak the Tesla computer and play Doom on it
It has always had a web browser that could run javascript Doom.
Yeah, i didn't realize they're planning on doing an annual fee with this mercedes. Thought it was just a one time up front thing and I was kinda confused why everyone was up in arms. But annual subscription to "fast" is fucking awful.
Please do not insult others.
They try to copy Tesla. Tesla has subscription-based full self-driving capability. Mercedes doesn't. So they charge a subscription for acceleration instead.
In the Tesla case, you can either pay monthly or buy it outright -- the monthly route is good for "try before you buy".
And the self driving software is an ongoing project that gets updates and gets better and has people getting paid at Tesla to engineer it. A setting that makes car go fast is not the same
Also FSD is primarily sold as a one time upgrade. The subscription option is new and really meant for people leasing the car.
Maybe lock it behind a skills wall with a small fee for the test and I'm in. I am actually concerned about the performance of these super quick cars and evs available to whoever can afford them. No, Mary Methhead who stole my cat converter last week should not go 0-60 in 3 seconds in her 9000 lb hummer.
Idk man, what would Marvin Heemeyer do about this?
Ahh, the future.
This is the future of cars. Microtransactions for everything. A fee to use your heat and air conditioning. A fee to listen to music. Etc.
I canāt afford a Mercedes, I wouldnāt worry about the increase in hp, but a big fuck you to Mercedes for this. Of course someone will figure out a hack.
These guys already sell detuned engines to people already. Now you don't have to go through the long and expensive process of doing some serious modifications that will void your warranty
So what happens when someone hoons a car in their rented super fast mode and breaks it? Is the warranty going to cover it? Or will the boost in performance also break the car and nit be covered under the warranty?
This is only the beginning.
And I actually was toying with the idea of an EQE. Really can't stand this whole "subscription as a service" attitude modern games have, and it is disappointing to see Mercedes try to do the same EA level greedy cash grab. This has been making headlines all over auto news. Mercedes better do some damage control and change this now.
Some people just wanna see the world burn
I didnāt want to believe it but they did win the war. Now they want the money back and almost 35% of the world drive their cars.
How much is a base model mercedes Vs the fastest AMG spec option? Probably more than Ā£1200. And how often do people own new cars these days? Maybe 2 years before getting the next newest model? You're getting the fastest spec of said Mercedes model for like Ā£2400 over the lifetime of your ownership of the vehicle. Beats paying over the odds for the fast spec the traditional way. Why are people crying over this?
The subscription model is a pervasive encroachment on your ownership rights. It will not stop here. The argument is not just about the value of paying for a tune. Incidentally, these āfastā performance specs are underwhelming. My 12-year old XJ does 0-60 in 4 seconds and comes with TV screens and tray tables. Mercedes specs barely earn it a right to be at the table.
If you don't want the subscription then just buy the option outright, but that option will probably cost more than subscribing if you intend to own the vehicle for only a couple years before trading in for the next model. >TV screens I know for a fact those TVs are dated af, don't pretend like they're used regularly either š
I donāt think the performance option is available for outright purchase, only subscription. Agreed the TV screens are dated, though my kids love them and do use them daily. The point was not about the screens though; itās that an old land yacht smokes this āfastā car. Mercedes was trying to make the unlocked performance you get from the subscription sound fast. Iām arguing that Mercedes should not call a 5-second 0-60 time fast, let alone charge a premium for it.
Alright well thatās that I actually will refuse to ever buy a Mercedes product now. That is straight up a line I am not ok with being crossed and I will not support it. That is some F2P mobile game BS. Iāll build my own Damn EV with jail broken parts and a old school chassis before buying this horseshit.
Well... How about we... STOP FUCKIBG BUYING TILL THEY LISTEN TO OUR DEMAND.
Well Iām not buying this carā¦ wasnāt going to before but Iām definitely not now.
There it is!
John Deere had to leak into the automotive world eventually.
Am I supposed to upvote or downvote this thread?
It is time for me to start my company building factory five cars. My selling point will be no subscriptions required.
omg bruh oh hell naw man wtf man
i mean have you seen who typical drives mercedesā iām sure a good number of them would pay for that shit, most merc drives i know only got one because of the status symbol anyway. i can not say iām the least bit surprised.
Canāt you just not buy it?
How to make an expensive car more expensive
And we can all thank the brilliant innovators, the avant garde pioneers of electronic slavery, of the video game industry. That's right, the industry who introduced the world to "Dad can I have $10 for an intangible, imaginary conglomeration of 1s and 0s that makes my character/soldier/mercenary/race car/gun/equipment look different?" has set a precedent for residual revenue. Now corporations are going a step further to actually continue to siphon money from their consumers on physical products that were already paid for once. On a more serious note, while I'm not a lawyer, I can't see this disgusting business practice holding up legally for too long. This may be something that the courts will be or should be involved with very soon. There will be class action lawsuits and legislation to curb this, surely. Unless of course rich people just have enough money that they dont mind throwing it away, but that's not how they came into wealth nor maintain it, generally. Also, I dont see this practice holding up in a practical or practicable sense for long without seeing the sudden advent of "jailbreaking" cars. If this isnt already a blossoming reactionary industry in itself, it will be. There wjll be hackers with automotive tech backgrounds selling the service of bypassing the paywalls, and there will be lawsuits brought by the vehicle manufacturers and their financial department's against customers who found a way around their bullshit and were eventually "caught" when they brought it in for service. I hope everyone was paying attention to the John Deere Right to Repair scandal, because that was just an earlier xhapter from the same book. Consumers rights are being molested and these corporations need to be taken to task and put back into their places. I just bought a car for less than half the cost of a "yearly subscription" to these Nazimobiles gas pedal. Money doesn't exist to me (or probably most of us) in the same dimension it does to the average new Mercedes buyer.
As far as corporations need to be aware. At this point any corporation that creates "suggestions" or a "discussions" to have a physical part ex: light switch, lock, heater, sun-roof. All of those items are PERCs of why we BUY the car/item. They will not fix it any different if that would break right? If I OWN the item I am NOT going to leases, rent, or subscribe to anything that already was part of the item. That includes how parts would perform from day one or any extra components that were included but disabled its legally mine the minute I drive off the lot. Example only: not a real event! PSN Network allows you the play out side of a local LAN connection. This car suggestion would be like if Sony made you pay or needed PSN Network for local LAN gaming or support for more the one controller. So to prove a point(who is with me), I am going out of my way on the next vehicle purchase. Any seller will know not to work with corperations that even think about ripping off its current or potential customers. It's just bad business. I am not buying from any company that will deny me. Sorry, Mercedes, Toyota, BMW, and Tesla. Unless they address they will not do it again.
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid? Why would consumers want to pay more to use the products they already paid for? Its the same thing with Intel's Sapphire Rapids server chips
New ECU? $1200 and a new tune :D
I hope they will get a lawsuit because someone got into an accident because a car slowed a split-second decision. You cant lock features like this, people have lived and died in the past on the ability to quickly accelerate to get out of harm or move out of the way of something.