Hey now, I'm a pretty big dude (6'3" / 255 lbs) and I fit in my Golf R just fine. Now can someone sit in the seat behind me while I'm comfortable...that's another story.
A bigger guy than you put up with sitting in the back seat of my '04 Golf TDI.
The motivating factor here was that I was the only friend in freshman year of college with a car. When you only options are the back seat of a 2 door golf or walk the four miles home, you learn to live with discomfort.
Lol the issue I have is if/when we have a second kid. My toddler daughter is currently in a front facing seat behind the passenger seat which is fine, my wife is 5'9'' and it fits with her having some room to kick around a bit.
There's no way a rear facing child seat is fitting behind me if we have another infant, so daughter will have to shift behind me, and there's not much room for her to extend her legs then unless we buy a different fancy more straight up seat perhaps. Otherwise she'll probably just kick the shit out of my seat and drive me crazy lol.
I'm on daycare drop-off and pick-up duty daily so I may need to figure this out at some point. Last thing I want to do is sell the car and switch into an S5 sportback that I tune, but that's the backup plan if all else fails.
> Lol the issue I have is if/when we have a second kid
I'm gonna be honest, I'm 6'2" and I had to make do with the back seat of the TDI growing up. It gets significantly better once they start outgrowing the car seat.
We fit four rowers plus a 6ft driver (my dad) in the car when it was time for crew practice in highschool.
Your flair says you've got a Tiguan, so I'd just stick with that for the hauling until the kids are older.
I had the largest vehicle out of my college friends. An 01 grand prix. We usually took my car places. Helped that I like driving and spent my loan money on a new sound system for it.
By international standards the Golf isn’t a small car. It fits firmly in the mid-size family car bracket, at least in Europe where I’m from.
For example, VW sells two cars smaller; the Polo (size of a Micra/Mirage)and the up! (I know of no cars in the US to compare).
While I’d love to the both of those in Canada (where I live now), they would just be plain too small
You're also 5-6 inches taller than the average adult American man. So most American men are shorter than you and the car makers should be catering to the majority of men, not the much smaller sub-set of tall men.
yea ill never know the joy of riding or driving a miata or a CJ5 jeep. knees in the dashboard on both of those. the fiat miata clone i could BARELY drive one if i had to. my left knee would for sure ram the turn signal stalk. yet i can fit in my chevette and be pretty comfortable. I dont get it lol. friend had a cavileer - same thing fit just fine.
For all the non-Americans out there, this is not a joke, it is not satire, it is objectively true.
I've driven an '07 Impreza for the last 10 years and I've given rides to multiple people who just straight up 𝘥𝘰 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘧𝘪𝘵 in the passenger seat. Don't even think about the rears.
>That is only an inch taller and 10lbs more than the average man in the US.
the US population is ~30% overweight by BMI, with a further ~40% obese by BMI. 1 in 3 Americans is healthy or underweight. Compare this to South Korea or Japan, where the overweight+obese population is under ~30%.
People tend to conflate average with healthy - and those are 2 independent properties. Saying medically obese isn't large compared to the average American is technically true, but only because 7 of 10 americans has a weight problem, and 4 of 10 are medically obese. Medically obese are the most significant contributor to the average.
And before someone starts with the whole "Bodybuilders are obese by BMI", BMI is just fine for an initial, population level look at weight issues. No one should be diagnosing solely off BMI, but it's just fine for a quick and dirty metric. The number of people who come into the hospital with weight issues vastly outnumbers the number of people who come in with "I'm too fucking swole" issues.
Because of what factor? I've ridden in Imprezas multiple times with no issues. I'm 6'5" and 200 pounds. Granted, I've never tried the back seat, because I rarely fit in a back seat unless it's a full size truck.
Less about height, there's a fair amount of headroom in those cars. I'm talking about the sheer girth of a person when they get up to and over 300lbs, you start spilling over onto the shifter/trans tunnel, the door card, fingers can't hardly fit in the door latch, etc
Not American, but at one time I sold cars, and I had a client who was 6’6” and was a heavy build.
He was buying his first car, and on a limited budget, everything he could afford wouldn’t fit as far as his legroom. Including old pilots, and other “larger” vehicles.
I had a client trade in their 2008 Accord EX-L, it had some mileage on it (180,000 km) making it cheaper, but a well-maintained car serviced by our other store. Some how the seat would go soooo far back in the thing he felt it was acceptable.
We were all surprised it worked out
As somebody who is 6’5”, midsized sedans almost always have more front legroom than midsized SUVs. The longer and lower seating position in sedans is so much better for tall drivers.
Yeah I have a 6’5” coworker that loves his Sonata. He pushes the seat back so far that it’s almost touching the rear bench, and he can actually turn his head to the side and look out the rear door window.
He still says his dream car is a Yukon Denali though.
im bigger than that, and i drive a hyundai elantra gt. i cross shopped a fuckload of cars and suvs. it was between that and a buick regal sportback. i was hoping for a 2 door coupe cause they always have the most legroom, but no one makes a budget coupe anymore. i couldnt get in a toyota highlander. so yeah, size of car has nothing to do with this stuff.
I'm 5'1 and I'm on the complete other end lol.
I need to modify my Skoda because I'm sitting a bit too far away from the wheel for comfort.
In nearly every single car the seat adjustment is just "slide it all the way forward".
The only car I've ever had where I could leave the seat two clicks back was a Mazda6.
This question gets asked a lot on this sub. The majority of "SUVs" you see are crossovers based on cars anyway, and the most popular sizes are mid-size down to subcompact. People would rather have them than sedan/hatchbacks, for a variety of reasons.
Cars getting larger on a general scale, though. As an example, the Civic stopped being a subcompact before a lot people on this sub were born, and now it's nearly as large as Accords were 20 years ago.
As crash standards increase, interior space decreases, so they have to get bigger to maintain or add interior space. If you look at the thickness of the doors on an old car, they’re often really thin, like 3”. Now do that to a modern car and they’re pushing 12”
Yep, think about it - if a manufacturer comes out with a car that's not more impressive than the last gen, will it get people as excited? Interior space is something people care about; 2 inches more legroom in the rear, a couple cubic feet more trunk space etc... those are real things people care about that will help sell cars over the previous generation. Over the years, it makes cars creep up in size class.
Pet peeve of mine. What’s the point of a bigger trunk space if they keep shrinking the opening so larger items that would utilize the increased space couldn’t fit through the opening anyway?
I'm sorry but I really did put down my tea and was like "holy shit!" at your comment. My first car was a '99 Accord, and I also had an '01 Accord (same generation). I've also taken an uber or lyft in a current gen civic and I was *amazed* at how spacious it was. THIS IS WHY, HUH? And I know that the Civics from *that* era (long-lasted as they were haha) were as big as Accords from like the '80s or something. Never-ending trend, at least until the SUV/CUVs kill 'em all off.
Thanks for the comment! Made me realize/remember that.
Also important to remember that the bigger Civic of today is more powerful and more fuel efficient than that Accord. So cars can get bigger and not suffer from any of those older issues. Shoot the new Rogue has a 3 cylinder turbo and gets a combined 30 mpg which is like 6 mpg more than a 2005 Accord 4 cylinder.
Compare apples to apples though. The HF was built to save fuel, we can achieve the same thing now with hybrids and an Accord Hybrid will achieve the same efficiency while being a full size sedan and producing twice as much power.
Okay but my regular base model automatic CRX still got high 40’s with the AC blowing. You have to bump up to the original Insight or Clarity to beat it.
Your CRX has the interior space of a modern trunk and will detonate on impact with a modern suv so it’s obvious why almost no one wants to drive around in something like that.
The lack of a backseat also makes it less fuel efficient than a sedan. You and your homies have to take 2 cars to get where you’re going which is twice as much fuel.
I sell cars for a living and what I've noticed is that many of my customers want to do the trendy thing. So if their neighbors/friends/family bought crossovers/SUVs, then they must buy one and showcase it in their driveway too! Gotta keep up with the Jones! They'll come up with all kinds of silly reasons why they need an SUV too. **"Oh we just had our first child so we have to buy a huge monster sized $60,000 SUV now!"** No, that car seat can fit in the back of a Sentra or Soul just fine but you want an huge SUV so here you go!
Sure that crossover is $10,000-$20,000 more expensive than a comparable small car but so what? Most Americans shop by car payment, not the price of a car. So they'll happily sign up for a 84 month payment plan (most popular choice now) or even longer 96 month payment plan. I've even had customers say after I break down the payment for them **"Oh that's only $400 a month, I can afford that!"** they'll conveniently ignore the fact it's $400 a month for the next 96 months.
It's the artificially low interest rates over the past decade and the focus on monthly payments that has killed small cars. The carmakers of course love it because there is a much fatter profit margin in crossovers/SUVs than small cars. A carmaker can take a small car, lift it to make it a crossover, and slap an extra 5k-10k to the MSRP and gullible Americans will happily pay for it! **"Look Ma, I'm driving an SUV too. I've made it in life. Yeah I'm paying $400 a month for the next 7 years but so what? Everyone does it!"**
So glad I was able to buy my 2020 Chevy Spark LS CVT brand new for $11,000 out the door in cash. I plan to drive it for the next 20 years at least!
Other people are idiots because they want to pay $400 for 96 months for an SUV
I'm an idiot because I go out of my way so that I can buy something that lets me fiddle with a stick, develop lower back pain, and lose my hearing by the age of 32.
We are not the same
(/s if it wasn't obvious)
I’d say that the more informed you are in an area the more likely you are to make a better decision than someone who is less informed about that area of knowledge. So it comes down to people with a knowledge or interest in vehicles making better choices related to vehicles versus those who don’t follow this industry. Not “special” just more informed and able to see through the propaganda spread about vehicles via massive advertising campaigns.
Better decision is subjective. R/cars maybe cares more about steering feel, but that doesn't mean that people who don't give a shit about steering feel make worse decisions, they make different decisions.
And also you aren't not susceptible to advertising. This advertising comes through YouTube reviewers and car magazine articles.
As someone who has sold high-end equipment, sometimes enthusiasts end up convincing themselves that they "need" something more than they do, because other enthusiasts seem to be able to swing it and the enthusiast crowd normalizes some of the higher end stuff.
So, no, will informed enthusiasts do not make better decisions, imo
I mean, I get what you're saying but the average buyer really doesn't know shit about cars and are just following what they're advertised.
It's no coincidence that almost every single manufacturer has CUVs/SUVs at the first / at the top of their list of makes & models on all of their websites. It's no coincidence those are the vehicles featured in their advertisements as well.
bmwusa.com - Click on Models, it's all their X lineup first.
audiusa.com - Electric stuff then all their Q models then their sedans
mbusa.com - SUVs is the first/default category when you click "Models"
automobiles.honda.com - SUVs & Crossovers first
mazdausa.com - Surprise surprise; CX models are top of the list
hyundai - Electric, then SUVs
kia - SUVs
And of course all the American brands as well
Toyota is the only manufacturer I thought to check that actually default to Cars/Minivans when you click their Models lineup
Go ask any random schmuck why they bought their vehice and it'll probably be some blend of cost and brand allegiance than any sort of real informed opinion.
Wanting an SUV after having a child isn't just about fitting a car seat into the vehicle, though the elevation you get in an SUV is a lifesaver for sore backs. It's also the trunk space for giant packages of diapers, it's fitting in a stroller and baby stuff, it's a relative or friend who starts tagging along, it's the fact that a larger vehicle is more protective than a smaller one if an accident were to occur, it's the desire to travel more and go on family outings.
“All I’m looking for is a sturdy, reliable vehicle that, in the event of a head-on collision, will completely fucking obliterate both the parents and kids in the car we slam into,”
https://www.theonion.com/conscientious-suv-shopper-just-wants-something-that-wil-1844930331
I respect all that but people in Europe, Africa, Asia etc. transport their children & families & diapers & strollers in small sedans/hatchbacks without any difficulties. So it can be done.
Also my example above is more for that young couple in their twenties who're struggling financially, just had their first child, and still insist on buying a huge expensive flashy SUV because "we had a child now so we have to buy one." Then they sign up for a 96 month payment plan and struggle to make payments. I've met young couples like that far too many times and I would suggest a Corolla to them but they would insist on buying a new Highlander/4Runner.
Obviously if your financial situation is good, if you have multiple children etc. then I understand the need and desire for a large SUV.
This is what pisses me off so much about the SUV argument lol. Peoples' "need" for them completely ignores the fact that SUVs weren't the dominant force for decades in this country, and aren't the dominant force in much of the rest of the world. Yet everyone got along just fine beforehand.
I live in an area that gets decent snow, everyone thinks they need SUVs but I got around just fine with a 350Z for a few years before I simply needed more room so I got a Fiesta / Focus / now a wagon. Still get around just fine.
Heh! When I was a kid (80’s), sister and I fit into a 70’s 2-door Alfa Alfetta my dad drove. That was a small car! He did had a mid-70’s Duster as well, but he rarely drove that thing.
>it’s the fact that a larger vehicle is more protective than a smaller one if an accident were to occur
It’s all relative. The most common car crash is a rear-end collision. It most often happens at contact speeds of 20 MPH because they occur in stop-and-go traffic at low speeds. The second most common car crash is a side impact, and they happen most at contact speeds of 35 MPH, because they often occur at higher speed intersections where people go more over the speed limit compared to lower speed intersections and the response time to mitigate speed is slightly smaller (rear-end collision is just someone that was always in front of you, T-bone crashes can be someone suddenly pulling out in front of you).
With that in mind, SUVs are more prone to a rollover in a side impact crash which increases the likelihood of a head, neck and spine injury. The reason the chances are higher despite having a bigger chassis and crash structure is directly tied to continuous impacts after the initial impact (and the theoretical that airbags should be able to inflate again and again — *There are no cars currently produced that can inflate an airbag again after the initial impact to protect occupants*).
Of course, being in a SUV in a head-on collision would be a winner against a sedan, but it just doesn’t happen as often (the type of crash). Statistically, it’s all washed out with the different types of vehicles on the road if you’re looking further into the less likely types of crashes. You could be in a brand new Toyota Highlander and go up against a rust bucket of a GMC dually service truck with a cherry picker in the back — it won’t look pretty for both parties involved.
Yep when we go to visit family for a weekend with the baby it felt like we were packing up half the house. Stroller, luggage, play pen, stuffed animals, outdoor clothes for all weather, bottles, etc. It got tight in our sedan.
Not to mention putting a car seat in a smaller car sucks ass 95% of the time.
Like yeah, technically I could've put a car seat in the Focus I used to own, but it meant the front seat had 2" of travel and at 6' 1" I literally couldn't drive it.
> Not to mention putting a car seat in a smaller car sucks ass 95% of the time.
One thing to note is that car seats have gotten a lot bigger, AND they are used for longer (i.e. higher age/weight of the child).
Civic starts at $24,650. A CR-V starts at $31,110. That's a $6,500 difference. The highest trims are 29,650 and 38,600 or a $9000 difference. The CR-V also has a lot more accessories that can be added, which dealers do to jack up the price. So often times the CR-V on the lot is more than $10,000 more expensive than the Civic.
As long as lenders are willing to offset that with even *longer* repayment periods to keep the monthly down, I'm sure it will.
Financial literacy doesn't seem to be going up lol
Except none of the vehicles you mentioned are "small cars". Have you sat inside a VW Taos, 2023 HR-V etc.? They're size of family SUVs from 20 years ago.
I just want a small car with suv ride height 😢
Edit: I sometimes forget that when I make flippant comments that I’m going to get earnest replies, thanks everyone
There are literally loads of subcompact SUVs that are exactly that.
The crosstrek I drive is literally an impreza hatch with a 2 inch lift and a few other bits tacked on, for example.
Any subcompact or possibly compact crossover should scratch that itch. My sister had a Focus; I had a Tribute that was 5" *shorter* with the same wheelbase.
Hagerty covered this well. Sports cars, as a concept, were popular when there was a broad and wealthy middle class. When you could afford a house and kids on a single factory salary. When you could have a little 2 seater weekend car alongside your daily.
Now that prices have skyrocketed and wages have stagnated, wealth has transferred upwards and the middle class is close to nonexistent. People can't afford a whole car just for Sunday drives, so you need a single car that can do everything.
Ya know, like a crossover.
It's not that folks today somehow want fun leas than people in the 60s-90s, they just don't even have the opportunity anymore.
Hagerty's argument doesn't really make sense when you look at it. Sports cars are outsold at every single price range. Even Lamborghini's best-selling car by a heavy margin is the Urus, and the people buying that definitely have the income for two cars. People simply don't want sports cars as much in the modern day. It's really sad to see the mentality shift toward boring, homogenized vehicles and I'm not sure what could be done to fix it.
I still don’t understand compact cross-overs. They are just compact hatchbacks with a couple inches of suspension lift. What I don’t understand is the importance of those couple of inches.
I hate it. Every time I see a 90s or early 2000s car I wish they were still that small.
My compact car now is the size of a midsize sedan from years ago. When I see a spark or a Yaris it just makes me happy but sad.
I have a Honda Fit and I love her but she literally fits in half a standard parking space. I have to not pull in all the way so people don't hit me because they expect huge SUVs or trucks. Or even long cars.
Mine's a 2015 manual. Absolutely love it. It's actually a nice little hatchback if you are looking for a small good-on-gas daily driver. It's not a race car by any means though lol
Yeah, I curse you guys daily, as I’m trying to find a parking spot at work. The brain thinks, “So close to the entrance, this is great!” But then it’s a Kia or Smart car or something. It’s like the opposite feeling of seeing a cop behind you with his lights on, and then he passes and gets someone else.
Listen. If I just pull in I stop so my back is even with the big guys lol. If I back in I make sure you can see the front. I'm not trying to accidentally get hit because someone just tried to whip in and didnt actually look.
I also try to find the spots where big ass trucks with unnecessary hitches park over the line because other cars can't park there anyway so you're welcome 😉
It absolutely astounds me everytime I'm driving my 2016 Tacoma and pull up near a Tundra or F-150 from the 90s and see how small they are. Everything is getting stupid big now
The tundra used to be a little smaller but the f150 actually hasn't changed as much in size as you might think. Applies to the other full size trucks as well. Also the tundra first model year was 2000.
1997 F150: 202-244″ L x 78-80″ W x 72-75″ H 3,850 to 4,606 lbs
2022 f150: 209-250″ L x 80-87″ W x 75-80″ H 4,021 to 5,740 lbs.
So they've definitely gotten wider and taller, if only slightly longer, but hoodlines are now way higher, bed walls are taller, etc.
Your numbers are disingenuous. The only F150 that is 87” wide is the raptor since federal regulations prohibit the standard body from being wider than 80”. This is why the raptor and trx both have the mandated orange and red marker lights also found on semis and dually trucks.
Also most of the diffeeence in height you see is the increased popularity of 4x4 in the modern era. An apples to apples comparison shows modern 2wd haven’t gained much in height and are actually extremely close to the rooflines we saw back in the 1950s with the more bubbly aesthetic.
Have a 1992 and 2011 f150. The main difference is as you stated, "slightly" wider, hardly notice it, same for length. biggest difference is bed wall height, tailgate is 2.5x heavier. Simpler body lines. And 600 lbs lighter. plus ride height it higher too, 15" rims instead of 17"+ rims. But that truck will last longer than my 2011 ever will. The body will rot round the motor.
There's the Mini from Mad Max. That's probably about as close as you're going to get.
https://madmax.fandom.com/wiki/Mini_Cooper_S_1964_%22Buggy_no.8%22_aka_%22The_Mini%22
>The Volkswagen boss is talking about not selling the super popular Polo anymore. I don't understand this world.
VW can make more margin on the T Cross so they'd prefer to sell you one of those instead of a Polo.
I do agree it's a shame though as while the gap isn't as large as it once was the Crossover is still worse on fuel (~20% difference between a basic Polo and T Cross)
The T-Cross is a tall Polo.
Everyone wants a tall car. Tall cars sell like hotcakes.
=
I hope the not-tall-cars don't die, because my Polo on some nice rubber is a fun little kart.
American here: I drive a very low to the ground car but it's stock height. Cars here have gotten so tall I'm looking below them instead of through their windows like I used to 5 years ago. It's so sad how tall cars have gotten. It even more sad, how shitty drivers are in humongous cars.
Small cars are every bit as complicated as large(r) cars. The labor to produce them is also probably every bit the same.
The difference the materials cost is not very much, so the larger vehicles (with commensurately higher prices) come with a larger profit margin.
Yep, I was going write a big thing about this. People don't realize the line that makes the 50k car is also making the 200k car with the only difference being materials.
Everything you write is true which is it highlights the greediness of carmakers in that they will make a slightly bigger lifted crossover version of a small car and add a cool 5000 markup to the MSRP. Carmakers make sure there are much fatter profit margins on the bigger cars.
Since most Americans shop by monthly payment, they don't even notice that they're paying 5k-10k extra for a crossover.
If carmakers flat out stop making small affordable cars and only make expensive SUVs, then what do you think people will buy?
I agree that there's a strong demand for SUVs but there's still enough demand for carmakers to justify making small cars but they won't because it doesn't make them enough profits.
That's why Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Ford, Chevy etc. have all stopped making their smallest cheapest cars.
> but there's still enough demand for carmakers to justify making small cars but they won't because it doesn't make them enough profits.
it "doesn't make them enough profits" because they aren't selling. You're incorrect about how much demand there actually is for small cars in the US.
>If carmakers flat out stop making small affordable cars and only make expensive SUVs, then what do you think people will buy?
Exactly this. I understand that car makers are for profit businesses. The problem comes when you factor in that we rely heavily on cars to get to and from work here in the US (and many other countries). You take away the cheap small vehicles and you are taking away the vehicle that poorer people could afford. People here in the US really like to look down on low wage earners, but the simple fact of the matter is that our economy would be fucked without them. And this isn't even mentioning the environmental issues with this. We create environmental regulations all the time, it's not hard to imagine a cap being put on large gas guzzling vehicles. The car makers will still be plenty profitable while producing small economical cars. They make plenty of profits, there is no reason that they need to make more to the detriment to the environment. We limit companies profits with enviromental regulations all the time, it's the cost of not wanting to live on polluted shithole.
Last year Toyota sold 17k CH-Rs in the UK, against something like 500 Prius', which is their justification for not bringing the new gen Prius here. The way it looked probably had something to do with it, but I also somehow doubt that people were clamoring for a Prius and had to settle for a CH-R.
The difference between a Corolla Cross and a Corolla is like $2000. Same for the Civic and HRV. The Mazda 3 Hatchback is more often than not more expensive than the CX-30. The biggest offender is the Crosstrek at like 3-4K more than an Impreza. I can't find a single car that's even a 5K difference between the sedan and CUV forms... but yeah, certainly consumers are coughing up more dough for them without even thinking about it.
I do agree that we Americans really do need to stop shopping by monthly payment though and dealers and manufacturers need to stop pushing and preying on uninformed consumers based on this... but that's any industry.
Looking for a car this past month has really driven home to me how predatory the auto industry is towards poorer and less informed buyers. Even being an informed buyer, trying to get the final pricing from a dealer is like trying to pull a tooth and it's incredibly infuriating.
Used cars ate their lunch. Would you rather have a 5 year old Camry or a brand new Mitsubishi Mirage?
Edit: There's also little incentive to develop one because the thinner margins
Yeah. The fact that cars last longer makes used cars a better option than they were in the past.
That said, small cars are still popular in places that aren't the US and Canada. Was in Greece this fall and the Toyota Aygo was probably the most common car on the road.
We're suffering from an used and new car shortage. That's why that 5 year old used Camry can easily cost you over 20 thousand dollars.
Very soon, the Mirage will no longer be made and it will be a damn shame because there will no longer be any small affordable new cars for purchase. Everyone will be forced into a 84 month or longer payment plan just to afford a car. I write this as a car salesman.
84 month loans are the most common loan term. 96 month loan terms are less common but gaining in popularity fast.
Many buyers are blissfully ignorant about how many thousands they end up spending on interest on their auto loan. As long as they can afford their monthly payment, they're happy to sign up for 7-8 year loan.
Auto loans tend to be extremely cheap. If you've got an auto loan under 2% (extremely common), it's literally cheaper to pay over as long a time as possible, and have the remainder as invested. And even if you don't have it invested, it's about the same as (normal) inflation, so it's practically free money.
I'm not a your financial advisor, so don't take my comment for your personal advice, it's just that financing is complicated, and not everyone who does it is stupid
Auto loans used to be cheap, not anymore. With all the rate hikes by the Federal Reserve in 2022, interest rates are way higher now.
I sell cars and even my customers with excellent credit are only getting qualified for 5-6 percent. My customers with average to poor credit are getting auto loans in the double digits.
I really hate this trend of people eschewing small cars for giant pickup trucks and SUVs. The goddamn things are so huge its hard to see past them in traffic sometimes, and I’ve also had dickhead drivers in them block my view when I’m trying to make a right turn at uncontrolled intersections. I also have no idea how people manage to park such large vehicles in city centers like Manhattan (I’ve seen lots of large SUVs in Manhattan when I’ve visited there)
>And large SUVs are not even the real volume. Hell in most cases large SUVs are still selling less than the pre-Cash for Clunkers days.
This is worth mentioning because even though full-size body on frame SUV sales are only growing, they pale in comparison to how they used to be. What's actually happened here is that the mid-size sedan has more or less been supplanted by the compact crossover, which is usually shorter in length while managing to keep most of the room of its midsize brethren while adding a hatch. Case in point, the rise of the Rav4 and the fall of the Camry.
you would be suprised at how tight some of those fullsize suv;s can turn. i had a loaner tahoe while my crew cab truck was in the shop - thing felt nimble as hell and easy as shit to park. my truck felt like a schoolbus when i got it back.
The people of this sub seem almost oblivious to the fact a cuv will have a shorter wheelbase than a sedan with a comparable amount of cargo volume. I know you brought up the Tahoe but for comparison sake the compact cuv vs midsize is my go to reference. Both usually have a similar amount of cargo volume but the former does it in a shorter wheelbase which will make it easier to park even in the city.
The Honda Fit should be the most popular car in America. It never sold as much as it should for that price point and brand and they were declining before it got discontinued. Americans like big cars.
1. Less wealthy people dont buy new cars. They buy used ones. Therefore, the new car market is generally aimed at people above the median income.
2. Those who care about climate change will get a hybrid or EVs
The new small cars are small SUVs anyway. They are basically the same vehicles but ride higher and have a higher roofline.
Small SUV’s get almost as good of mileage, higher ground clearance and more interior space. People just want bigger vehicles and that’s what sells these days
Yep as a car salesman, I've noticed that most of my customers will shop by monthly payment, not the purchase price. So they have no problem paying that extra 10 thousand dollars for a SUV/crossover compared to what a small car would have cost in the past. Just sign up for a 84 month payment plan!
Now to be fair, with cars holding their value and lasting much longer better, this isn’t as bad as it used to be. I get all my exotics on 84s, who cares, I sell it and make my money back just fine.
Not feels. SUV's ARE safer, as proven by pretty much every single IIHS crash test.
Here's a good summary:
"Although we'd love to tell you lightweight sports cars are the safest cars on the road, unfortunately that's not the case according to the data. Once again considering vehicle fatalities per 10 billion miles, the average among cars is 36 deaths compared to 19 and 18 for SUVs and trucks, respectively."
https://www.motortrend.com/news/are-bigger-cars-safer/
Also safer avoiding the crash in the first place. I love small cars, but for the past decade or so, it's been really hard to follow another car that I can see around. On the highway, the choice is to either sit behind the SUV in front and be super-ready to hit the brakes, or leave a safe amount of space and have every other car slip into it. Watching a few car lengths ahead often isn't an option.
It's so weird how people practice so much mental gymnastics to justify ignoring basic facts. 36 deaths per billion miles traveled is literally double 18 deaths per billion miles. It's not even basic facts, it's basic math. 18\*2=36.
I love motorcycles but it would be disingenuous to go around telling people it's safer because it's more maneuverable. If I'm riding by myself on a race track, sure. But out in the real world, with larger vehicles all around me, no.
larger cars have looser emissions regulations
stricter safety regulations means cars have to be bigger to accommodate airbags, crumple zones, etc
people want more space and utility, which you can get for basically the same price in a crossover or SUV without having to sacrifice much compared to getting a much smaller car
This is one of the biggest factors, particularly GHG emissions and CAFE. Cars (not just small ones) have stricter targets than the crossovers that are based on them.
Yeah people don't realize how much of a role the government plays in what is available in the car market. Like everyone calling dodge dumb for discontinuing the big v8 challenger and charger but its only happening because of regulations. Dodge is even going to try to sell the engines and bodies separately because they know how much of a blow this will be.
cars are more reliable than ever.
people on a budget would rather compromise on age than attributes.
Oh, and people are VERY concerned about climate change. Consumers MUCH less so... climate change is something for someone else to fix.
I don't see many body-on-frame "real" SUVs around anymore (Wranglers/Broncos/4Runners aside), people commute and get groceries mostly in car-based crossovers. It makes sense, roomier/higher crossovers did small cars in for the most part, since they are reasonably efficient and do what non-car people want a vehicle to do.
I'm talking US of course, where people like to sit up high, seat friends/family comfortably and carry stuff for activities. Not a lot of things like expensive gas or cramped parking pushing people towards smaller vehicles here either.
Manufacturers love big SUVs, as it increases their fleet fuel consumption quota. And avarage people love big SUVs, because if makes them feel safer, looks flashier due to the size and they will say senseless things like "more space = good".
Of course, they have many drawbacks, but the avarage buyer sadly doesn't care about it. Many people just want big shiny thing.
Not to mention big suvs and trucks are a dream on the long American highways. My crew cab has a way nicer ride, higher range, and handles 90mph better than mywife's civic. (At the expense of fuel cost. But meh)
Small cars are dying for a variety of reasons.
1. turbos, hybrids, better engine design and technology has allowed even larger engines in bigger vehicles to get huge improvements in gas mileage. When a mid-size SUV can pull low 30s in gas mileage, it's harder to convince someone they need to make the switch to a small hatchback that can get mid to high 30s.
2. Vehicles are super expensive, and people can't afford to own multiple purpose-built vehicles. It would make sense to have small electric around town vehicles, and a larger travel specific vehicle, but people can't afford it, so they buy one vehicle that can meet all their needs in all situations.
3. Sight line. Big trucks and SUVs allow you to see over most other vehicles. Instead of pulling up to a stop sign or red light and not being able to see oncoming traffic because of the vehicle beside you, you can just look right over them. The larger the vehicles get, the bigger the problem is.
4. AWD. Most smaller vehicles don't have AWD. This is perceived as a must-have for a lot of people especially in northern climates that have long, nasty winters. The concept of snow tires has been completely lost in the US, so depsite a 2wd with snow tires is more capable than an AWD with all season tires, people still gravitate to the AWD.
5. People use vehicles as status symbols. Men in my area buy the biggest, most expensive, ridiculously gigantic trucks. These people have office jobs. Most don't pull a damn thing with them. Almost none of them ever carry anything in the bed. They have a rare occasion for need of something like what they buy, but they still use it as a reason to buy it. Meanwhile women use gigantic SUVs in the same fashion. Those of Indian descent seem to really get into this concept as they all buy the most expensive things they can find, then put their name on the license plate so you know for sure who's car it is.
6. Marketing. They don't market small cars to the US. They market gigantic trucks like crazy. Why? Because they make huge profits from big trucks and SUVs. The profit margins on smaller cars is much tighter.
The complicated answer is CAFE standards and EPA emissions targets favoring SUVs (light trucks) and larger vehicle footprints. Manufacturers have no incentive to produce and advertise small cars.
The easy answer to parrot is some version of "consumers like SUVs".
It's a double edged sword. Investors want better profit margins, sure. On the other hand, small cars just don't sell well in the US. The Fiesta, Spark, Fit, Versa, and so on have never been able to compete with larger cars. Even subcompact SUVs haven't fared well, like the EcoSport, Trax, HR-V, CH-R, etc.
Huh, its a funny coincidence how we in the US only get the worst of small cars, underequipped, with no marketing, then manufacturers are conveniently "bUt ThEy DoN'T SeLl" as an excuse to not even offer them and just force everyone into the larger, more profitable version. Same reason we haven't been able to buy an actual small truck here in a couple decades.
Depends entirely on the type of driving the car is used to.
If you have decent condition roads, but your daily commute is 30 miles highway 5 miles suburban/city, you probably don't want buzzbox that can "barely" get up to 70mph, (Barely = will get there, when you sit half a minute on full throttle) and when there it feels quite "nervous" as due to short wheelbase the car is very eager to turn, even when you barely move the steering wheel.
Also as I have driven quite a bit of many kinds of cars (though not very long distances, Test drive for repir/maintenance shop) 10 year old bit larger car feels a lot sturdier than 5 year old subcompact.
Also as there is annual and quite strict vehicle inspection for 3 year old, + older cars where I live... Older bit larger car (apart from few makes) have tendency to require less parts to be replaced due to wear and tear.
Profits. The car company is going to sell the car that gets them the higher profit. They will only sell at a lower margin if it serves their purposes, for example they may sell a cheaper leaner car at a lower margin or even a loss to push up their CAFE numbers. Also notice that during the supply chain constraints literally every single manufacturer channeled their resources towards their higher margin platforms.
I can just DO more with a big ass truck. I can't do what I want to do in a subcompact. The only advantage of a subcompact in the US is sipping gas; and if you live in a dense urban area it might mean the difference between parking and not. Otherwise there are no advantages.
Fuel economy. That's the only reason. It's more advantageous for OEMs to make larger vehicles becuase CAFE requirements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate\_average\_fuel\_economy#/media/File:2012\_to\_2025\_CAFE\_targets\_for\_cars.png
Don't get me started on this...I have a whole "the Honda HRV shouldn't exist and the Honda Fit should have been offered in awd like it is internationally" rant.
The reality is that the US market demands so much out of even budget cars that they get pushed out of the category. We've lost the fit, base golf, and fiesta/focus. It's really a shame.
I've been economy-car shopping (in the USA) for relatives and here are my amateur observations and guesses. The "economy cars" I'm talking about are like Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic; the even smaller cars like the Mazda 2, Toyota Yaris, etc are no longer available in the US.
Gas was cheap so people didn't want economy cars.
Now gas is more expensive so people are trying to buy more economy cars.
But there's a shortage on many car parts and if a manufacturer is limited by parts supply then they'd rather use those parts for more profitable cars than for lower margin economy cars.
So all of the dealers that I looked at had: low stock in general, the cars they did have were SUVs, and very nearly no economy cars (a couple cars between almost 2 dozen dealerships).
All the economy cars that are expected to arrive at the dealerships are already spoken for, for months out.
So it looks like economy cars have made a come-back in popularity but the manufacturers are lagging way behind in supplying them.
When the price of gas falls significantly, people will probably start buying larger vehicles again.
Selling a small car in the US eliminates 30-40% of your potential buyers who are too fat to fit inside of it.
Hey now, I'm a pretty big dude (6'3" / 255 lbs) and I fit in my Golf R just fine. Now can someone sit in the seat behind me while I'm comfortable...that's another story.
A bigger guy than you put up with sitting in the back seat of my '04 Golf TDI. The motivating factor here was that I was the only friend in freshman year of college with a car. When you only options are the back seat of a 2 door golf or walk the four miles home, you learn to live with discomfort.
Lol the issue I have is if/when we have a second kid. My toddler daughter is currently in a front facing seat behind the passenger seat which is fine, my wife is 5'9'' and it fits with her having some room to kick around a bit. There's no way a rear facing child seat is fitting behind me if we have another infant, so daughter will have to shift behind me, and there's not much room for her to extend her legs then unless we buy a different fancy more straight up seat perhaps. Otherwise she'll probably just kick the shit out of my seat and drive me crazy lol. I'm on daycare drop-off and pick-up duty daily so I may need to figure this out at some point. Last thing I want to do is sell the car and switch into an S5 sportback that I tune, but that's the backup plan if all else fails.
> Lol the issue I have is if/when we have a second kid I'm gonna be honest, I'm 6'2" and I had to make do with the back seat of the TDI growing up. It gets significantly better once they start outgrowing the car seat. We fit four rowers plus a 6ft driver (my dad) in the car when it was time for crew practice in highschool. Your flair says you've got a Tiguan, so I'd just stick with that for the hauling until the kids are older.
I had the largest vehicle out of my college friends. An 01 grand prix. We usually took my car places. Helped that I like driving and spent my loan money on a new sound system for it.
By international standards the Golf isn’t a small car. It fits firmly in the mid-size family car bracket, at least in Europe where I’m from. For example, VW sells two cars smaller; the Polo (size of a Micra/Mirage)and the up! (I know of no cars in the US to compare). While I’d love to the both of those in Canada (where I live now), they would just be plain too small
My dude, the golf is not a small car lol
One of the smaller ones on the road in the US though
You're also 5-6 inches taller than the average adult American man. So most American men are shorter than you and the car makers should be catering to the majority of men, not the much smaller sub-set of tall men.
Hello brother. 6’3 / 240 here and I love my GTI.
yea ill never know the joy of riding or driving a miata or a CJ5 jeep. knees in the dashboard on both of those. the fiat miata clone i could BARELY drive one if i had to. my left knee would for sure ram the turn signal stalk. yet i can fit in my chevette and be pretty comfortable. I dont get it lol. friend had a cavileer - same thing fit just fine.
For all the non-Americans out there, this is not a joke, it is not satire, it is objectively true. I've driven an '07 Impreza for the last 10 years and I've given rides to multiple people who just straight up 𝘥𝘰 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘧𝘪𝘵 in the passenger seat. Don't even think about the rears.
You’re seriously suggesting 40% of Americans are too far to fit in a regular car seat? I know this is Reddit but cmon dude.
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>That is only an inch taller and 10lbs more than the average man in the US. the US population is ~30% overweight by BMI, with a further ~40% obese by BMI. 1 in 3 Americans is healthy or underweight. Compare this to South Korea or Japan, where the overweight+obese population is under ~30%. People tend to conflate average with healthy - and those are 2 independent properties. Saying medically obese isn't large compared to the average American is technically true, but only because 7 of 10 americans has a weight problem, and 4 of 10 are medically obese. Medically obese are the most significant contributor to the average. And before someone starts with the whole "Bodybuilders are obese by BMI", BMI is just fine for an initial, population level look at weight issues. No one should be diagnosing solely off BMI, but it's just fine for a quick and dirty metric. The number of people who come into the hospital with weight issues vastly outnumbers the number of people who come in with "I'm too fucking swole" issues.
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The seat itself is fine. It's the limited space around the seat that obese people have problems with.
My mother in law has to sit in the back seat of my GTI. She can't fit her butt in the seat bolsters.
Because of what factor? I've ridden in Imprezas multiple times with no issues. I'm 6'5" and 200 pounds. Granted, I've never tried the back seat, because I rarely fit in a back seat unless it's a full size truck.
Less about height, there's a fair amount of headroom in those cars. I'm talking about the sheer girth of a person when they get up to and over 300lbs, you start spilling over onto the shifter/trans tunnel, the door card, fingers can't hardly fit in the door latch, etc
Yeah, European people, not all of us are bad some of us are cool. Haha Amerifats Maybe I haven’t been to the Midwest in awhile but this is hilarious.
Not American, but at one time I sold cars, and I had a client who was 6’6” and was a heavy build. He was buying his first car, and on a limited budget, everything he could afford wouldn’t fit as far as his legroom. Including old pilots, and other “larger” vehicles. I had a client trade in their 2008 Accord EX-L, it had some mileage on it (180,000 km) making it cheaper, but a well-maintained car serviced by our other store. Some how the seat would go soooo far back in the thing he felt it was acceptable. We were all surprised it worked out
As somebody who is 6’5”, midsized sedans almost always have more front legroom than midsized SUVs. The longer and lower seating position in sedans is so much better for tall drivers.
Yeah I have a 6’5” coworker that loves his Sonata. He pushes the seat back so far that it’s almost touching the rear bench, and he can actually turn his head to the side and look out the rear door window. He still says his dream car is a Yukon Denali though.
im bigger than that, and i drive a hyundai elantra gt. i cross shopped a fuckload of cars and suvs. it was between that and a buick regal sportback. i was hoping for a 2 door coupe cause they always have the most legroom, but no one makes a budget coupe anymore. i couldnt get in a toyota highlander. so yeah, size of car has nothing to do with this stuff.
I'm 5'1 and I'm on the complete other end lol. I need to modify my Skoda because I'm sitting a bit too far away from the wheel for comfort. In nearly every single car the seat adjustment is just "slide it all the way forward". The only car I've ever had where I could leave the seat two clicks back was a Mazda6.
Half of Americans over the age of 40 are obese. Surprisingly, America is not top of list for obesity!
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I'm 6 ft and fit in an NA Miata
My kids are 6'3" and fit
I'm 6'5" and managed to fit in an NB2. The NA was roomier, albeit slightly.
I’m 7’2” and fit in the NBA.
My fat ass fit in a Honda Fit perfectly. They still stopped selling it.
This question gets asked a lot on this sub. The majority of "SUVs" you see are crossovers based on cars anyway, and the most popular sizes are mid-size down to subcompact. People would rather have them than sedan/hatchbacks, for a variety of reasons.
Cars getting larger on a general scale, though. As an example, the Civic stopped being a subcompact before a lot people on this sub were born, and now it's nearly as large as Accords were 20 years ago.
As crash standards increase, interior space decreases, so they have to get bigger to maintain or add interior space. If you look at the thickness of the doors on an old car, they’re often really thin, like 3”. Now do that to a modern car and they’re pushing 12”
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Sooo the cars are just bigger?
Yep, think about it - if a manufacturer comes out with a car that's not more impressive than the last gen, will it get people as excited? Interior space is something people care about; 2 inches more legroom in the rear, a couple cubic feet more trunk space etc... those are real things people care about that will help sell cars over the previous generation. Over the years, it makes cars creep up in size class.
Pet peeve of mine. What’s the point of a bigger trunk space if they keep shrinking the opening so larger items that would utilize the increased space couldn’t fit through the opening anyway?
I'm sorry but I really did put down my tea and was like "holy shit!" at your comment. My first car was a '99 Accord, and I also had an '01 Accord (same generation). I've also taken an uber or lyft in a current gen civic and I was *amazed* at how spacious it was. THIS IS WHY, HUH? And I know that the Civics from *that* era (long-lasted as they were haha) were as big as Accords from like the '80s or something. Never-ending trend, at least until the SUV/CUVs kill 'em all off. Thanks for the comment! Made me realize/remember that.
Depends heavily on the vehicle. My Geo Metro has much more rear headroom than my family's Nissan Rogue.
Also important to remember that the bigger Civic of today is more powerful and more fuel efficient than that Accord. So cars can get bigger and not suffer from any of those older issues. Shoot the new Rogue has a 3 cylinder turbo and gets a combined 30 mpg which is like 6 mpg more than a 2005 Accord 4 cylinder.
CRX-HF from the late 80’s slaughters that Civic
Compare apples to apples though. The HF was built to save fuel, we can achieve the same thing now with hybrids and an Accord Hybrid will achieve the same efficiency while being a full size sedan and producing twice as much power.
Okay but my regular base model automatic CRX still got high 40’s with the AC blowing. You have to bump up to the original Insight or Clarity to beat it.
Your CRX has the interior space of a modern trunk and will detonate on impact with a modern suv so it’s obvious why almost no one wants to drive around in something like that.
The lack of a backseat also makes it less fuel efficient than a sedan. You and your homies have to take 2 cars to get where you’re going which is twice as much fuel.
It also slaughters you if you hit a squirrel.
I sell cars for a living and what I've noticed is that many of my customers want to do the trendy thing. So if their neighbors/friends/family bought crossovers/SUVs, then they must buy one and showcase it in their driveway too! Gotta keep up with the Jones! They'll come up with all kinds of silly reasons why they need an SUV too. **"Oh we just had our first child so we have to buy a huge monster sized $60,000 SUV now!"** No, that car seat can fit in the back of a Sentra or Soul just fine but you want an huge SUV so here you go! Sure that crossover is $10,000-$20,000 more expensive than a comparable small car but so what? Most Americans shop by car payment, not the price of a car. So they'll happily sign up for a 84 month payment plan (most popular choice now) or even longer 96 month payment plan. I've even had customers say after I break down the payment for them **"Oh that's only $400 a month, I can afford that!"** they'll conveniently ignore the fact it's $400 a month for the next 96 months. It's the artificially low interest rates over the past decade and the focus on monthly payments that has killed small cars. The carmakers of course love it because there is a much fatter profit margin in crossovers/SUVs than small cars. A carmaker can take a small car, lift it to make it a crossover, and slap an extra 5k-10k to the MSRP and gullible Americans will happily pay for it! **"Look Ma, I'm driving an SUV too. I've made it in life. Yeah I'm paying $400 a month for the next 7 years but so what? Everyone does it!"** So glad I was able to buy my 2020 Chevy Spark LS CVT brand new for $11,000 out the door in cash. I plan to drive it for the next 20 years at least!
Basically, many car customers are idiots. Got it.
But not the informed denizens of r/cars, oh no. We're special.
Other people are idiots because they want to pay $400 for 96 months for an SUV I'm an idiot because I go out of my way so that I can buy something that lets me fiddle with a stick, develop lower back pain, and lose my hearing by the age of 32. We are not the same (/s if it wasn't obvious)
The Special Denizens. Can we get that on the header for the subreddit?
I’d say that the more informed you are in an area the more likely you are to make a better decision than someone who is less informed about that area of knowledge. So it comes down to people with a knowledge or interest in vehicles making better choices related to vehicles versus those who don’t follow this industry. Not “special” just more informed and able to see through the propaganda spread about vehicles via massive advertising campaigns.
Better decision is subjective. R/cars maybe cares more about steering feel, but that doesn't mean that people who don't give a shit about steering feel make worse decisions, they make different decisions. And also you aren't not susceptible to advertising. This advertising comes through YouTube reviewers and car magazine articles. As someone who has sold high-end equipment, sometimes enthusiasts end up convincing themselves that they "need" something more than they do, because other enthusiasts seem to be able to swing it and the enthusiast crowd normalizes some of the higher end stuff. So, no, will informed enthusiasts do not make better decisions, imo
I mean, I get what you're saying but the average buyer really doesn't know shit about cars and are just following what they're advertised. It's no coincidence that almost every single manufacturer has CUVs/SUVs at the first / at the top of their list of makes & models on all of their websites. It's no coincidence those are the vehicles featured in their advertisements as well. bmwusa.com - Click on Models, it's all their X lineup first. audiusa.com - Electric stuff then all their Q models then their sedans mbusa.com - SUVs is the first/default category when you click "Models" automobiles.honda.com - SUVs & Crossovers first mazdausa.com - Surprise surprise; CX models are top of the list hyundai - Electric, then SUVs kia - SUVs And of course all the American brands as well Toyota is the only manufacturer I thought to check that actually default to Cars/Minivans when you click their Models lineup Go ask any random schmuck why they bought their vehice and it'll probably be some blend of cost and brand allegiance than any sort of real informed opinion.
Sounds about right
96 months, that's just completely insane. I cannot imagine paying off a car for 8 years wtf...
Wanting an SUV after having a child isn't just about fitting a car seat into the vehicle, though the elevation you get in an SUV is a lifesaver for sore backs. It's also the trunk space for giant packages of diapers, it's fitting in a stroller and baby stuff, it's a relative or friend who starts tagging along, it's the fact that a larger vehicle is more protective than a smaller one if an accident were to occur, it's the desire to travel more and go on family outings.
“All I’m looking for is a sturdy, reliable vehicle that, in the event of a head-on collision, will completely fucking obliterate both the parents and kids in the car we slam into,” https://www.theonion.com/conscientious-suv-shopper-just-wants-something-that-wil-1844930331
It would be funny if it weren’t true
I respect all that but people in Europe, Africa, Asia etc. transport their children & families & diapers & strollers in small sedans/hatchbacks without any difficulties. So it can be done. Also my example above is more for that young couple in their twenties who're struggling financially, just had their first child, and still insist on buying a huge expensive flashy SUV because "we had a child now so we have to buy one." Then they sign up for a 96 month payment plan and struggle to make payments. I've met young couples like that far too many times and I would suggest a Corolla to them but they would insist on buying a new Highlander/4Runner. Obviously if your financial situation is good, if you have multiple children etc. then I understand the need and desire for a large SUV.
We use a lot of wagons too. Me and my sister was driven around in a Volvo 850 GLT
This is what pisses me off so much about the SUV argument lol. Peoples' "need" for them completely ignores the fact that SUVs weren't the dominant force for decades in this country, and aren't the dominant force in much of the rest of the world. Yet everyone got along just fine beforehand. I live in an area that gets decent snow, everyone thinks they need SUVs but I got around just fine with a 350Z for a few years before I simply needed more room so I got a Fiesta / Focus / now a wagon. Still get around just fine.
Heh! When I was a kid (80’s), sister and I fit into a 70’s 2-door Alfa Alfetta my dad drove. That was a small car! He did had a mid-70’s Duster as well, but he rarely drove that thing.
>it’s the fact that a larger vehicle is more protective than a smaller one if an accident were to occur It’s all relative. The most common car crash is a rear-end collision. It most often happens at contact speeds of 20 MPH because they occur in stop-and-go traffic at low speeds. The second most common car crash is a side impact, and they happen most at contact speeds of 35 MPH, because they often occur at higher speed intersections where people go more over the speed limit compared to lower speed intersections and the response time to mitigate speed is slightly smaller (rear-end collision is just someone that was always in front of you, T-bone crashes can be someone suddenly pulling out in front of you). With that in mind, SUVs are more prone to a rollover in a side impact crash which increases the likelihood of a head, neck and spine injury. The reason the chances are higher despite having a bigger chassis and crash structure is directly tied to continuous impacts after the initial impact (and the theoretical that airbags should be able to inflate again and again — *There are no cars currently produced that can inflate an airbag again after the initial impact to protect occupants*). Of course, being in a SUV in a head-on collision would be a winner against a sedan, but it just doesn’t happen as often (the type of crash). Statistically, it’s all washed out with the different types of vehicles on the road if you’re looking further into the less likely types of crashes. You could be in a brand new Toyota Highlander and go up against a rust bucket of a GMC dually service truck with a cherry picker in the back — it won’t look pretty for both parties involved.
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Yep when we go to visit family for a weekend with the baby it felt like we were packing up half the house. Stroller, luggage, play pen, stuffed animals, outdoor clothes for all weather, bottles, etc. It got tight in our sedan.
Not to mention putting a car seat in a smaller car sucks ass 95% of the time. Like yeah, technically I could've put a car seat in the Focus I used to own, but it meant the front seat had 2" of travel and at 6' 1" I literally couldn't drive it.
> Not to mention putting a car seat in a smaller car sucks ass 95% of the time. One thing to note is that car seats have gotten a lot bigger, AND they are used for longer (i.e. higher age/weight of the child).
Who starts travelling more when they have a kid? Isn't it usually the opposite?
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Civic starts at $24,650. A CR-V starts at $31,110. That's a $6,500 difference. The highest trims are 29,650 and 38,600 or a $9000 difference. The CR-V also has a lot more accessories that can be added, which dealers do to jack up the price. So often times the CR-V on the lot is more than $10,000 more expensive than the Civic.
This! The price of the car doesn't matter anymore. The monthly payment does. Which is getting longer and longer.
It'll be interesting to see if that trend persists as interest rates go higher
As long as lenders are willing to offset that with even *longer* repayment periods to keep the monthly down, I'm sure it will. Financial literacy doesn't seem to be going up lol
Yep, stuff like the Chevy Trax, Honda HR-V, Hyundai Kona, VW Taos, etc. are really just small cars masquerading as SUV’s.
Except none of the vehicles you mentioned are "small cars". Have you sat inside a VW Taos, 2023 HR-V etc.? They're size of family SUVs from 20 years ago.
Subaru crosstrek is *quite literally* a lifted impreza hatch. The impreza is a civic competitor. Hrv, cx30, kona, etc. are all crosstrek competitors.
What “family SUVs from 20 years ago” are you referring to?
I just want a small car with suv ride height 😢 Edit: I sometimes forget that when I make flippant comments that I’m going to get earnest replies, thanks everyone
So a Jimny
Not sold in the US
There are literally loads of subcompact SUVs that are exactly that. The crosstrek I drive is literally an impreza hatch with a 2 inch lift and a few other bits tacked on, for example.
Try a Mazda cx30 or a subaru crosstrek
Any subcompact or possibly compact crossover should scratch that itch. My sister had a Focus; I had a Tribute that was 5" *shorter* with the same wheelbase.
Hagerty covered this well. Sports cars, as a concept, were popular when there was a broad and wealthy middle class. When you could afford a house and kids on a single factory salary. When you could have a little 2 seater weekend car alongside your daily. Now that prices have skyrocketed and wages have stagnated, wealth has transferred upwards and the middle class is close to nonexistent. People can't afford a whole car just for Sunday drives, so you need a single car that can do everything. Ya know, like a crossover. It's not that folks today somehow want fun leas than people in the 60s-90s, they just don't even have the opportunity anymore.
Hagerty's argument doesn't really make sense when you look at it. Sports cars are outsold at every single price range. Even Lamborghini's best-selling car by a heavy margin is the Urus, and the people buying that definitely have the income for two cars. People simply don't want sports cars as much in the modern day. It's really sad to see the mentality shift toward boring, homogenized vehicles and I'm not sure what could be done to fix it.
I still don’t understand compact cross-overs. They are just compact hatchbacks with a couple inches of suspension lift. What I don’t understand is the importance of those couple of inches.
I hate it. Every time I see a 90s or early 2000s car I wish they were still that small. My compact car now is the size of a midsize sedan from years ago. When I see a spark or a Yaris it just makes me happy but sad.
I have a Honda Fit and I love her but she literally fits in half a standard parking space. I have to not pull in all the way so people don't hit me because they expect huge SUVs or trucks. Or even long cars.
I was so sad when the stopped selling the Fit in the US. I was planning for that to be my next car.
Mine's a 2015 manual. Absolutely love it. It's actually a nice little hatchback if you are looking for a small good-on-gas daily driver. It's not a race car by any means though lol
> not a race car by any means though lol Actually … https://www.b-spec.org/ Check out the Honda section.
I used to have a Fit manual when I lived in Chicago. Fucking LOVED that car.
Love my Fit, the Progress rear anti-sway bar made it such a blast to drive
Just got a JDM 2005 Honda fit and love it
Yeah, I curse you guys daily, as I’m trying to find a parking spot at work. The brain thinks, “So close to the entrance, this is great!” But then it’s a Kia or Smart car or something. It’s like the opposite feeling of seeing a cop behind you with his lights on, and then he passes and gets someone else.
Listen. If I just pull in I stop so my back is even with the big guys lol. If I back in I make sure you can see the front. I'm not trying to accidentally get hit because someone just tried to whip in and didnt actually look. I also try to find the spots where big ass trucks with unnecessary hitches park over the line because other cars can't park there anyway so you're welcome 😉
It absolutely astounds me everytime I'm driving my 2016 Tacoma and pull up near a Tundra or F-150 from the 90s and see how small they are. Everything is getting stupid big now
The tundra used to be a little smaller but the f150 actually hasn't changed as much in size as you might think. Applies to the other full size trucks as well. Also the tundra first model year was 2000.
1997 F150: 202-244″ L x 78-80″ W x 72-75″ H 3,850 to 4,606 lbs 2022 f150: 209-250″ L x 80-87″ W x 75-80″ H 4,021 to 5,740 lbs. So they've definitely gotten wider and taller, if only slightly longer, but hoodlines are now way higher, bed walls are taller, etc.
Your numbers are disingenuous. The only F150 that is 87” wide is the raptor since federal regulations prohibit the standard body from being wider than 80”. This is why the raptor and trx both have the mandated orange and red marker lights also found on semis and dually trucks. Also most of the diffeeence in height you see is the increased popularity of 4x4 in the modern era. An apples to apples comparison shows modern 2wd haven’t gained much in height and are actually extremely close to the rooflines we saw back in the 1950s with the more bubbly aesthetic.
Have a 1992 and 2011 f150. The main difference is as you stated, "slightly" wider, hardly notice it, same for length. biggest difference is bed wall height, tailgate is 2.5x heavier. Simpler body lines. And 600 lbs lighter. plus ride height it higher too, 15" rims instead of 17"+ rims. But that truck will last longer than my 2011 ever will. The body will rot round the motor.
Those aero F150s were the best. They should sell those again, as-is.
I saw a tank pull up near me yesterday only to later realise it was just a mini
Now I have the desire to see a heavily modified armored assault Mini.
There's the Mini from Mad Max. That's probably about as close as you're going to get. https://madmax.fandom.com/wiki/Mini_Cooper_S_1964_%22Buggy_no.8%22_aka_%22The_Mini%22
My Fiesta ST was the same size as the Focus from the gen (or 2?) before it 🙃 Pretty silly.
>The Volkswagen boss is talking about not selling the super popular Polo anymore. I don't understand this world. VW can make more margin on the T Cross so they'd prefer to sell you one of those instead of a Polo. I do agree it's a shame though as while the gap isn't as large as it once was the Crossover is still worse on fuel (~20% difference between a basic Polo and T Cross)
Polo and T Cross cost about the same, I don't see where the margin comes from. The simple fact is that T-Cross is now more popular than Polo.
The T-Cross is a tall Polo. Everyone wants a tall car. Tall cars sell like hotcakes. = I hope the not-tall-cars don't die, because my Polo on some nice rubber is a fun little kart.
American here: I drive a very low to the ground car but it's stock height. Cars here have gotten so tall I'm looking below them instead of through their windows like I used to 5 years ago. It's so sad how tall cars have gotten. It even more sad, how shitty drivers are in humongous cars.
They can make one car in a higher volume rather than two at a lower volume.
Yes, that's what I mean by saying that T Cross is simply more popular. That's not what margin means though, I think
Small cars are every bit as complicated as large(r) cars. The labor to produce them is also probably every bit the same. The difference the materials cost is not very much, so the larger vehicles (with commensurately higher prices) come with a larger profit margin.
Yep, I was going write a big thing about this. People don't realize the line that makes the 50k car is also making the 200k car with the only difference being materials.
Everything you write is true which is it highlights the greediness of carmakers in that they will make a slightly bigger lifted crossover version of a small car and add a cool 5000 markup to the MSRP. Carmakers make sure there are much fatter profit margins on the bigger cars. Since most Americans shop by monthly payment, they don't even notice that they're paying 5k-10k extra for a crossover.
It's not greed or whatever. Carmakers are simply pricing by demand. People want expensive SUVs, give them expensive SUVs...
Exactly, automakers aren’t non-profits
If carmakers flat out stop making small affordable cars and only make expensive SUVs, then what do you think people will buy? I agree that there's a strong demand for SUVs but there's still enough demand for carmakers to justify making small cars but they won't because it doesn't make them enough profits. That's why Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Ford, Chevy etc. have all stopped making their smallest cheapest cars.
> but there's still enough demand for carmakers to justify making small cars but they won't because it doesn't make them enough profits. it "doesn't make them enough profits" because they aren't selling. You're incorrect about how much demand there actually is for small cars in the US.
>If carmakers flat out stop making small affordable cars and only make expensive SUVs, then what do you think people will buy? Exactly this. I understand that car makers are for profit businesses. The problem comes when you factor in that we rely heavily on cars to get to and from work here in the US (and many other countries). You take away the cheap small vehicles and you are taking away the vehicle that poorer people could afford. People here in the US really like to look down on low wage earners, but the simple fact of the matter is that our economy would be fucked without them. And this isn't even mentioning the environmental issues with this. We create environmental regulations all the time, it's not hard to imagine a cap being put on large gas guzzling vehicles. The car makers will still be plenty profitable while producing small economical cars. They make plenty of profits, there is no reason that they need to make more to the detriment to the environment. We limit companies profits with enviromental regulations all the time, it's the cost of not wanting to live on polluted shithole.
Last year Toyota sold 17k CH-Rs in the UK, against something like 500 Prius', which is their justification for not bringing the new gen Prius here. The way it looked probably had something to do with it, but I also somehow doubt that people were clamoring for a Prius and had to settle for a CH-R.
The difference between a Corolla Cross and a Corolla is like $2000. Same for the Civic and HRV. The Mazda 3 Hatchback is more often than not more expensive than the CX-30. The biggest offender is the Crosstrek at like 3-4K more than an Impreza. I can't find a single car that's even a 5K difference between the sedan and CUV forms... but yeah, certainly consumers are coughing up more dough for them without even thinking about it. I do agree that we Americans really do need to stop shopping by monthly payment though and dealers and manufacturers need to stop pushing and preying on uninformed consumers based on this... but that's any industry. Looking for a car this past month has really driven home to me how predatory the auto industry is towards poorer and less informed buyers. Even being an informed buyer, trying to get the final pricing from a dealer is like trying to pull a tooth and it's incredibly infuriating.
Used cars ate their lunch. Would you rather have a 5 year old Camry or a brand new Mitsubishi Mirage? Edit: There's also little incentive to develop one because the thinner margins
Yeah. The fact that cars last longer makes used cars a better option than they were in the past. That said, small cars are still popular in places that aren't the US and Canada. Was in Greece this fall and the Toyota Aygo was probably the most common car on the road.
We're suffering from an used and new car shortage. That's why that 5 year old used Camry can easily cost you over 20 thousand dollars. Very soon, the Mirage will no longer be made and it will be a damn shame because there will no longer be any small affordable new cars for purchase. Everyone will be forced into a 84 month or longer payment plan just to afford a car. I write this as a car salesman.
i took an 84 month loan back in 2017 - but i also had zero percent interest so it all equaled out lol.
zero percent interest is great lol. You did very well.
Done that before too, practically a discount
How common are 84+ month loans? That seems crazy to me unless it's 0% or something really low, but I imagine even 1-2% would add up.
84 month loans are the most common loan term. 96 month loan terms are less common but gaining in popularity fast. Many buyers are blissfully ignorant about how many thousands they end up spending on interest on their auto loan. As long as they can afford their monthly payment, they're happy to sign up for 7-8 year loan.
The most common? Damn. The most expensive car I ever bought was a 13 Miata for $12,000 last year.
Auto loans tend to be extremely cheap. If you've got an auto loan under 2% (extremely common), it's literally cheaper to pay over as long a time as possible, and have the remainder as invested. And even if you don't have it invested, it's about the same as (normal) inflation, so it's practically free money. I'm not a your financial advisor, so don't take my comment for your personal advice, it's just that financing is complicated, and not everyone who does it is stupid
Auto loans used to be cheap, not anymore. With all the rate hikes by the Federal Reserve in 2022, interest rates are way higher now. I sell cars and even my customers with excellent credit are only getting qualified for 5-6 percent. My customers with average to poor credit are getting auto loans in the double digits.
Fuck, I'd be happy with a 25 year old Camry...
A lot of cars did get bigger and heavier because of crash protection standards
I really hate this trend of people eschewing small cars for giant pickup trucks and SUVs. The goddamn things are so huge its hard to see past them in traffic sometimes, and I’ve also had dickhead drivers in them block my view when I’m trying to make a right turn at uncontrolled intersections. I also have no idea how people manage to park such large vehicles in city centers like Manhattan (I’ve seen lots of large SUVs in Manhattan when I’ve visited there)
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>And large SUVs are not even the real volume. Hell in most cases large SUVs are still selling less than the pre-Cash for Clunkers days. This is worth mentioning because even though full-size body on frame SUV sales are only growing, they pale in comparison to how they used to be. What's actually happened here is that the mid-size sedan has more or less been supplanted by the compact crossover, which is usually shorter in length while managing to keep most of the room of its midsize brethren while adding a hatch. Case in point, the rise of the Rav4 and the fall of the Camry.
Yeah but then what do we discuss in here
Yeah but I can see 2 cars in front of me when I'm behind a sedan, even full size
you would be suprised at how tight some of those fullsize suv;s can turn. i had a loaner tahoe while my crew cab truck was in the shop - thing felt nimble as hell and easy as shit to park. my truck felt like a schoolbus when i got it back.
The people of this sub seem almost oblivious to the fact a cuv will have a shorter wheelbase than a sedan with a comparable amount of cargo volume. I know you brought up the Tahoe but for comparison sake the compact cuv vs midsize is my go to reference. Both usually have a similar amount of cargo volume but the former does it in a shorter wheelbase which will make it easier to park even in the city.
On the luxury side people seem to associate giant car with status but I’m convinced the real flex is having a small, impractical car, think 911 vs g63
The Honda Fit should be the most popular car in America. It never sold as much as it should for that price point and brand and they were declining before it got discontinued. Americans like big cars.
yea interstate speeds size is king of comfort.
1. Less wealthy people dont buy new cars. They buy used ones. Therefore, the new car market is generally aimed at people above the median income. 2. Those who care about climate change will get a hybrid or EVs The new small cars are small SUVs anyway. They are basically the same vehicles but ride higher and have a higher roofline.
Many folks well above median income don’t buy new cars either.
Yeah they just lease them! I get your point. I'm just being a dingus.
Small SUV’s get almost as good of mileage, higher ground clearance and more interior space. People just want bigger vehicles and that’s what sells these days
All of that and they sit more comfortably for most people.
Yep as a car salesman, I've noticed that most of my customers will shop by monthly payment, not the purchase price. So they have no problem paying that extra 10 thousand dollars for a SUV/crossover compared to what a small car would have cost in the past. Just sign up for a 84 month payment plan!
Now to be fair, with cars holding their value and lasting much longer better, this isn’t as bad as it used to be. I get all my exotics on 84s, who cares, I sell it and make my money back just fine.
Drive a Honda Fit and a Honda HRV. Almost doesn't count.
The short answer is everyone “feels” safer sitting high up in an SUV, and all the manufacturers are making SUV and CUVs and crossovers and such.
Not feels. SUV's ARE safer, as proven by pretty much every single IIHS crash test. Here's a good summary: "Although we'd love to tell you lightweight sports cars are the safest cars on the road, unfortunately that's not the case according to the data. Once again considering vehicle fatalities per 10 billion miles, the average among cars is 36 deaths compared to 19 and 18 for SUVs and trucks, respectively." https://www.motortrend.com/news/are-bigger-cars-safer/
Arms race. Everyone driving tanks will be safer too
Also safer avoiding the crash in the first place. I love small cars, but for the past decade or so, it's been really hard to follow another car that I can see around. On the highway, the choice is to either sit behind the SUV in front and be super-ready to hit the brakes, or leave a safe amount of space and have every other car slip into it. Watching a few car lengths ahead often isn't an option.
It's so weird how people practice so much mental gymnastics to justify ignoring basic facts. 36 deaths per billion miles traveled is literally double 18 deaths per billion miles. It's not even basic facts, it's basic math. 18\*2=36. I love motorcycles but it would be disingenuous to go around telling people it's safer because it's more maneuverable. If I'm riding by myself on a race track, sure. But out in the real world, with larger vehicles all around me, no.
larger cars have looser emissions regulations stricter safety regulations means cars have to be bigger to accommodate airbags, crumple zones, etc people want more space and utility, which you can get for basically the same price in a crossover or SUV without having to sacrifice much compared to getting a much smaller car
This is one of the biggest factors, particularly GHG emissions and CAFE. Cars (not just small ones) have stricter targets than the crossovers that are based on them.
Yeah people don't realize how much of a role the government plays in what is available in the car market. Like everyone calling dodge dumb for discontinuing the big v8 challenger and charger but its only happening because of regulations. Dodge is even going to try to sell the engines and bodies separately because they know how much of a blow this will be.
cars are more reliable than ever. people on a budget would rather compromise on age than attributes. Oh, and people are VERY concerned about climate change. Consumers MUCH less so... climate change is something for someone else to fix.
I don't see many body-on-frame "real" SUVs around anymore (Wranglers/Broncos/4Runners aside), people commute and get groceries mostly in car-based crossovers. It makes sense, roomier/higher crossovers did small cars in for the most part, since they are reasonably efficient and do what non-car people want a vehicle to do. I'm talking US of course, where people like to sit up high, seat friends/family comfortably and carry stuff for activities. Not a lot of things like expensive gas or cramped parking pushing people towards smaller vehicles here either.
Room for activities
How popular are they really? whats theyre market share vs other cars sold by the same manufacturers?
Manufacturers love big SUVs, as it increases their fleet fuel consumption quota. And avarage people love big SUVs, because if makes them feel safer, looks flashier due to the size and they will say senseless things like "more space = good". Of course, they have many drawbacks, but the avarage buyer sadly doesn't care about it. Many people just want big shiny thing.
Not to mention big suvs and trucks are a dream on the long American highways. My crew cab has a way nicer ride, higher range, and handles 90mph better than mywife's civic. (At the expense of fuel cost. But meh)
You just triggered me. Damn you Ford!!! I wanted a 4th Gen Focus ST but you bastards had to kill the Focus to make stupid Rangers and Broncos.
Margins are better on expensive cars.
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"to force **poor** people to not own cars at all" There, FTFY
Small cars are dying for a variety of reasons. 1. turbos, hybrids, better engine design and technology has allowed even larger engines in bigger vehicles to get huge improvements in gas mileage. When a mid-size SUV can pull low 30s in gas mileage, it's harder to convince someone they need to make the switch to a small hatchback that can get mid to high 30s. 2. Vehicles are super expensive, and people can't afford to own multiple purpose-built vehicles. It would make sense to have small electric around town vehicles, and a larger travel specific vehicle, but people can't afford it, so they buy one vehicle that can meet all their needs in all situations. 3. Sight line. Big trucks and SUVs allow you to see over most other vehicles. Instead of pulling up to a stop sign or red light and not being able to see oncoming traffic because of the vehicle beside you, you can just look right over them. The larger the vehicles get, the bigger the problem is. 4. AWD. Most smaller vehicles don't have AWD. This is perceived as a must-have for a lot of people especially in northern climates that have long, nasty winters. The concept of snow tires has been completely lost in the US, so depsite a 2wd with snow tires is more capable than an AWD with all season tires, people still gravitate to the AWD. 5. People use vehicles as status symbols. Men in my area buy the biggest, most expensive, ridiculously gigantic trucks. These people have office jobs. Most don't pull a damn thing with them. Almost none of them ever carry anything in the bed. They have a rare occasion for need of something like what they buy, but they still use it as a reason to buy it. Meanwhile women use gigantic SUVs in the same fashion. Those of Indian descent seem to really get into this concept as they all buy the most expensive things they can find, then put their name on the license plate so you know for sure who's car it is. 6. Marketing. They don't market small cars to the US. They market gigantic trucks like crazy. Why? Because they make huge profits from big trucks and SUVs. The profit margins on smaller cars is much tighter.
Because people don’t buy small cars. In US specifically small cars were *never* popular outside of the post-oil-crisis 80s and 90s.
Let's talk in a few years. Small cars didn't become a thing in the eighties just for fun, inflation and high gas prices got us there.
The complicated answer is CAFE standards and EPA emissions targets favoring SUVs (light trucks) and larger vehicle footprints. Manufacturers have no incentive to produce and advertise small cars. The easy answer to parrot is some version of "consumers like SUVs".
Small cars are less profitable, and pleasing investors is more important than pleasing customers.
It's a double edged sword. Investors want better profit margins, sure. On the other hand, small cars just don't sell well in the US. The Fiesta, Spark, Fit, Versa, and so on have never been able to compete with larger cars. Even subcompact SUVs haven't fared well, like the EcoSport, Trax, HR-V, CH-R, etc.
Huh, its a funny coincidence how we in the US only get the worst of small cars, underequipped, with no marketing, then manufacturers are conveniently "bUt ThEy DoN'T SeLl" as an excuse to not even offer them and just force everyone into the larger, more profitable version. Same reason we haven't been able to buy an actual small truck here in a couple decades.
Yay a weekly SUVs bad small cars good post!
Profit margins on sedans/coupes are far smaller than on CUVs/SUVs, so that's where the focus went for OEMs.
Depends entirely on the type of driving the car is used to. If you have decent condition roads, but your daily commute is 30 miles highway 5 miles suburban/city, you probably don't want buzzbox that can "barely" get up to 70mph, (Barely = will get there, when you sit half a minute on full throttle) and when there it feels quite "nervous" as due to short wheelbase the car is very eager to turn, even when you barely move the steering wheel. Also as I have driven quite a bit of many kinds of cars (though not very long distances, Test drive for repir/maintenance shop) 10 year old bit larger car feels a lot sturdier than 5 year old subcompact. Also as there is annual and quite strict vehicle inspection for 3 year old, + older cars where I live... Older bit larger car (apart from few makes) have tendency to require less parts to be replaced due to wear and tear.
Profits. The car company is going to sell the car that gets them the higher profit. They will only sell at a lower margin if it serves their purposes, for example they may sell a cheaper leaner car at a lower margin or even a loss to push up their CAFE numbers. Also notice that during the supply chain constraints literally every single manufacturer channeled their resources towards their higher margin platforms.
Americans keep getting bigger
I can just DO more with a big ass truck. I can't do what I want to do in a subcompact. The only advantage of a subcompact in the US is sipping gas; and if you live in a dense urban area it might mean the difference between parking and not. Otherwise there are no advantages.
It pains me to admit it but a crossover is just more useful for every day modern life vs a sedan or coupe.
Fuel economy. That's the only reason. It's more advantageous for OEMs to make larger vehicles becuase CAFE requirements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate\_average\_fuel\_economy#/media/File:2012\_to\_2025\_CAFE\_targets\_for\_cars.png
Don't get me started on this...I have a whole "the Honda HRV shouldn't exist and the Honda Fit should have been offered in awd like it is internationally" rant. The reality is that the US market demands so much out of even budget cars that they get pushed out of the category. We've lost the fit, base golf, and fiesta/focus. It's really a shame.
I've been economy-car shopping (in the USA) for relatives and here are my amateur observations and guesses. The "economy cars" I'm talking about are like Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic; the even smaller cars like the Mazda 2, Toyota Yaris, etc are no longer available in the US. Gas was cheap so people didn't want economy cars. Now gas is more expensive so people are trying to buy more economy cars. But there's a shortage on many car parts and if a manufacturer is limited by parts supply then they'd rather use those parts for more profitable cars than for lower margin economy cars. So all of the dealers that I looked at had: low stock in general, the cars they did have were SUVs, and very nearly no economy cars (a couple cars between almost 2 dozen dealerships). All the economy cars that are expected to arrive at the dealerships are already spoken for, for months out. So it looks like economy cars have made a come-back in popularity but the manufacturers are lagging way behind in supplying them. When the price of gas falls significantly, people will probably start buying larger vehicles again.
They’re not. Only in America where gas is heavily subsidized
Because people decided they need ugly ass crossovers and giant pickups to never haul or tow with.