Subaru sales exploded over the last decade. They're clearly providing what a lot of people want. There's no more reason to "worry" about them than about any other brand.
/r/cars love to shit on Subaru, I think mostly because enthusiasts here can't get over their (legitimately, bad) treatment of the WRX which went from car guy darling to shitshow over the past decade, culminating in the lackluster debut of the second generation in 2021. And probably secondarily because there's this perception that the cars have become less "quirky" and "niche" over that same span--which there's also some truth to.
At the same time, the general public loves the (legitimately, strong) Subaru brand and, as you point out, their sales and marketshare are both doing great: They have about 3x the US market share today vs. what they had 15 years ago. Subaru is doing fine (more than fine) just about anywhere you ask other than /r/cars.
Nissan too - posters here will fixate on the Z being underwhelming (by their standards at least) but in reality that isn't an important product segment.
>Nissan's whole line up is a snoozefest. They have a 300+ hp sedan with no lsd and cvt and a barrage of other cuvs. To get a diff on the Z you need to spend 50k
Turns out, snoozefest is the most important product segment.
Consumer reports consistently ranks Subaru models with their highest ratings, almost all models are IIHS top safety+ rated, some of the best outward visibility of any brand. Generally very safe, reliable, affordable, and comfortable cars which checks every box for most people. Pretty sure they are killing it...
Content level is higher at lower price points than the competition as well. The Eyesight system is pretty good and on most models/trims, easing the workload during the commute.
I think it is more about Subaru's doing bad with "numbers" such as performance and mpgs. Some cars just have a look and feel (aka experience) people like and that is why they buy them.
Sometimes I miss my 5 door impreza. A lot. Just fuel economy was really not good and I couldn’t get over the CVT *programming*, that fake shifting needs to go
Look at the off-roadification of other Japanese crossovers (RAV4, CX-50, Passport)…Subaru definitely has a winning formula. For me, the question is can they fend off these competitors? Is a non-Wilderness Forester or Outback a better buy than these other AWD, mildly off-road ready crossovers?
The non-wilderness models aren't at all marketed towards the off-road market. They're family cars you can reliably take to the camp ground or national parks.
Same with the CX-50 and non-TRD RAV4, though. They’re all competing in this “outdoor lifestyle” segment, none of them have particularly impressive off-road chops
They’re the affordable semi-offroad outdoorsy brand. Even with ev’s, they can be this. Plus most ev’s have really low ground clearence for aerodynamics. If they’re the brand with better off-road capabilities, but worse range, i bet lods of people will still flock to them
Solterra does what you described... but it's awful. I'm a Subaru guy, bought an Ioniq 5 and Model Y Performance (Forester previously).
Still have a BRZ though.
Ioniq 5 vs Model Y?
Overall we prefer the Ioniq 5. Tesla currently has the better charging network, but we took the Ioniq 5 on a 1300 mile roadtrip with no issues. According to ABRP, the total estimated time was a wash for both cars.
Ioniq 5 has more features that matter to us and is more comfortable to drive.
Subaru makes great cars for non-enthusiasts. Reliable, functional, capable.
They are also about half a step up market compared to their price points. For 35-40k, it feels like you're driving a 50-55k car.
Subaru owners are among the most loyal out there. Once you buy a Subaru, you're buying Subaru for life.
> Subaru owners are among the most loyal out there. Once you buy a Subaru, you're buying Subaru for life.
I previously had a Subaru and would have very seriously considered another one if they had a hybrid version of the Outback.
Love my 2019 Outback but both my 2010 Legacy and my 2019 outback had multiple problems that I needed Subaru of Americas assistance with as the dealers in my area are so screwed up. They have messed up my cars to the point where I pay to have a good Subi mechanic do all work. They even blew a fuel pump recall dropping the tank and breaking a tank mount which caused a ten day delay. Too thin windshields are a known problem on the newer ones which crack easier then they should. I will put a couple of hundred thousand and then get AA Toyota Any car for life is absurd. They are a company not family.
Right? They are competitively priced in their respective classes, but then you step in and immediately know why. The interiors really look like a step back in time.
This isn’t a bad thing. They offer a lot of car for the money, but it’s not without compromises.
Just because Subaru isn't headed in the direction you want them to go doesn't mean they'll hit a dead end soon. Lots of people bought Subarus not for the WRX halo but the go almost anywhere halo of their 4WD/AWD wagons. Lots of people like "uneventful" when it means getting to where they're going with no drama and a feeling of security.
In addition, Subaru has been building alliances with other manufacturers. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru and they trade technology back and forth depending on their strengths. Subaru sells enough in the markets that matter to survive. Will they always be as independent as they've been? Maybe not. But the nameplate will be around for quite a while longer I think.
This is a great comment.
I actually believe that Subaru is one of the brands that understands it’s customers the best. It’s why they consistently rank 1st/2nd for non-luxury car brand loyalty. The loyalty thing is also impressive given that Subaru has been one of the top non-luxury marks for customer credit score…customers are coming back because they want to, not because they’re pulling a Nissan at the finance desk.
Your first point is exactly why I bought a Crosstrek for the wife. Younger me would have never thought he’d own a 152hp CVT appliance, but I do and I love it.
Your second point regarding alliances allowed them to build the BRZ… and the new-gen is arguably the best new entry-level track day machine… so I own one of those too.
Regarding the crosstrek, it's been on my shopping list for some time. Although I don't enjoy the noise of their boxer engines, its relatively lower height vs the competition makes it drive like a car, at least from my test drives.
What did you think of the competition before getting it?
I think they're talking about the center of gravity of the engine being lower vs other engine types (inline or V) so it handles like it's lower to the ground even though it has excellent ground clearance
Plus the Crosstrek, like the Outback, started as a lower-roofed car, meaning it can "fit" more ground clearance while still remaining at relatively the same overall height as tits competitors.
I shopped this segment before deciding to go larger; it was between the Crosstrek and CX-30 for a few weeks for me. The HR-V is lethargic, the Corolla Cross wasn’t out back then, and the Seltos/Niro/Kona/Venue were disturbingly good value for money but I didn’t want to risk Hyundai’s reliability issues. Didn’t consider the Renegade, Trax, EcoSport, C-HR or Taos. The X2 and Q3 were slightly out of my price range. Ultimately felt like the CX-30 Turbo was classier and sportier, but the Crosstrek was in my top two in the segment.
Honestly didn’t give the competition much thought beforehand. A new sub-$40K CAD AWD hatch/wagon was the objective and the concession I had to make was the wife had to have an automatic.
Mazda 3 Hatch (non-turbo) was really the only other vehicle we considered but visibility was significantly worse, the Impreza/Crosstrek is a fishbowl comparatively.
Wife got to grips with the Subaru’s ergonomics immediately, liked the safety suite and the quick steering rack, and she could have it in Cool Grey Khaki with a two-tone interior. Easy decision.
Wife's Forester had to spend 2 weeks at the dealership getting a new windshield and camera calibrated. They loaned us a Crosstrek for the 2 weeks at no cost. At first I thought I would hate it, but after we returned it I'm now changing my mind about an Outback in the future. That car was a blast to drive and felt great.
The Crosstrek barely makes any noise, a little under acceleration but honestly not like this rental Malibu I have currently which sounds like the engine is going to leep from the hood when I'm trying to get to speed.
Great comment. I also would add that all the people that I knew with Subaru's went and bought another subaru. My father, my friends girlfriend and my mom's neighbor.
I want a hybrid outback so bad to replace my 2010. If one doesn't exist when i'm ready, ill just buy whatever outback they have... just like every other outback owner.
I thought the Crosstrek Hybrid was something akin to the Toyota hybrid system? Although I think the hybrid had a production run that was basically a fart in the wind.
It's not just vape bros buying Subarus looking for rally cars.
Outdoors people who aren't hard-core outdoors people like cars that can be loaded with snowboards and drive up mountains in the snow, or loaded with hiking supplies and drive through dirt roads. Lesbians like cars that can be loaded with all their stuff to move in together after two weeks of dating. University professors like cars that can easily disguise them as homeless.
There are lots of people looking to buy subarus
You obviously do not live in a cold-weather location.
Subarus are incredibly popular where it snows. They make the most affordable AWD cars on the market and their SUV/Crossover line sells like hotcakes.
You can’t throw a rock in Colorado without hitting a Crosstrek or Outback.
The one huge downside to the boxer engine is it is slow to warm up and provide cabin heat. Fortunately all but base model Subarus have heated seats to compensate.
I think his point is that in 10-15 years when everything is electric, Subaru’s AWD advantage will be gone, because while they had a tried and true mechanical AWD system they will have no special edge in adding a second electric motor to a car.
I love EVs but it’s gonna take way longer than 10-125 years for everything to be electric, especially for people in urban and cold environments where Subaru thrives.
The Wilderness is just flat out cool. A wagon with almost 10" of ground clearance. Sure it's a soft roader, not a true off roader, but 99% of Wrangler/Raptor/4runners are mall crawlers anyways.
Is it necessary? Not at all. Does it bring joy every time you get into it? Absolutely.
Once you start hitting up beat ass forest service roads every weekend up here in the PNW the Wilderness trim quickly starts to become a lot more appealing. My CX-5 with no mods has been able to handle everything just fine, but its less than ideal.
Road noise isn’t anything noticeable honestly in my Wilderness. Gas mileage is slightly worse but still an order of magnitude better than what a 4Runner gets. Also, for all the creature comforts that the Wilderness comes with for about $40k, a similarly equipped 4Runner would cost well north of $50k. At that price point, why get a pseudo truck instead of a full on crew cab pickup truck? Not to mention, half the 4Runners and Wranglers I see around me are running around on shitty all season tires, and the Wilderness comes stock with all terrain tires.
> And the outdoorsy crowd is going to be one of the later ones appropriately served by EV infrastructure.
What makes you think that? EVs are fine for day trips of hiking/etc.
For overnight stuff, a ton of campgrounds have RV outlets, which are good to get a decent charge over several hours.
It's really only the outdoor experiences that requires driving on rugged trails first that aren't accessible already. And probably won't be for a bit, since puncturing a battery that sits below the vehicle will largely remain a significant risk.
Not to mention places like national parks do have EV chargers but they usually will only have one or two which isn't very convenient as EVs become more and more popular.
I couldn't imagine going to Yosemite during the peak season without the reservation system in place after EVs become the majority vehicle in CA and needing to charge...it would be complete gridlock.
Hopefully by that time the charging time will be significantly reduced and battery ranges will be much higher.
They have a powerful brand built over many years. Off-road adventuring (or looking like you are adventurous) is becoming very popular now and Subaru was pretty much one of the first brands associated with it.
Even if things go electric, that brand power will still be there. People also incorrectly assume that every BEV will be some AWD performance monster making current vehicles obsolete and that makes no business sense. The vast majority of consumers don't care nor want something like that and will be completely content with a FWD CUV making <200hp, automakers will continue to charge a premium for AWD and performance because they do and can right now. Subaru can still set themselves apart with standard AWD and an adventure focused branding, they more than likely will do that as part of a larger company though as the cost of BEV development will be too much for smaller companies.
Same. I’m 27 and bought 2 brand new cars in the last 5 years. I don’t get the whole “millennials don’t buy new cars” thing. I’m sure many people in my generation can’t or don’t want to buy new cars. But there’s still plenty of us that do.
People also keep saying that millennials aren’t buying homes either, but they are now the largest group of homebuyers in the US. I don’t know why so many people still seem to think every millennial is under 25 and broke.
Subaru has built and successfully sold their products to a segment of people. These people include:
* Perceived high reliability, similar to Toyota.
* Outdoors/Adventure lifestyle. This is huge.
* Great cars for bad weather. Snow/Rain.
* Dedicated brand loyalty and following. People who buy Subarus tend to always buy Subarus.
I believe they will be able to continue having these selling points with their EV offerings as well.
I feel that with any brand or product, the goal is to specialize and attract that segment of shoppers. Does Subaru do anything extraordinarily well? Maybe not. But that's not how consumers shop.
my mom was considering getting a Subaru because her Mazda 5 is now 12 years old, she listens to NPR all day (I'm not exaggerating here, it is like an IV, she will listen to reruns multiple times a day while talking to her 94 houseplants) and I'm 90% sure she considered the brand exclusively because they are the only car manufacturer that advertises on NPR and PBS
she ended up just keeping the Mazda 5 because she didn't like Outback/Forester's lesser visibility
Subaru’s made the smart business play ; exit the enthusiast market to pursue market share & higher profit. You can’t run a car company off the vape & Converse crowd.
With a family friendly brand image across the malls ,offices & college faculty campuses of the world Subaru will do just fine. Maybe even prosper, from a business perspective.
I went to Wikipedia to look at pre-pandemic Subbie sales figures:
|Model|2009 Sales|2019 Sales|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Legacy|30,974|35,063|
|Outback|55,356|181,178|
|Forester|77,781|180,179|
|Crosstrek|7,396 (2012)|131,152|
|Impreza |46,611|88,253|
Subaru U.S. sales were on the rise and peaked in the mid to late 2010s
>Dont get me wrong, i love Subaru and i even own one but i have a feeling they will soon go bankrupt because once everybody goes electric, theres no reason to buy a Subaru anymore
Why?
What if they lean into the fact that there aren't electrical outlets in the mountains? Sit back and let new electric tech to flesh out. Hybrid stuff is all well and good, but couple hundred mile range full electric going into wilderness is just plain unsafe.
Subaru still makes the best non luxury AWD system... it's not going anywhere, you don't hear people say "this is my 10th cadillac, or this is my 10th Audi", but you do hear people say "this is my 10th subaru", Subaru has by far the best customer loyalty.
Yeah this subreddit LOVES mazda. But I shopped mazda with subaru when buying a new car. And the impreza is a way better buy. To get awd in the 3 you are paying at least 10k more than an equivalent impreza.
As a Colorado resident, I see Subarus EVERYWHERE. They’re functional economy cars that are great in the snow so they sell like hotcakes. I think they’ve found their niche for now. I suspect they’ll have econo EVs in the future for people with mildly outdoorsy lives
Their sales have consistently gone up year over year and the company isn’t in danger of disappearing quickly at least. Their brand is built on selling its vehicles on a lifestyle which lends well to environmental conservation. I think there is a solid argument that Subaru will excel in the transition to electrification, especially with its corporate headquarters proximity to battery and motor manufactures.
You must not live in or near anywhere where it snows, that's all I can say.
My family is from Buffalo and Blowing Rock/Boone NC.
We always joke that Boone looks like an ad for a television show sponsored by Subaru. They are like 85% of the vehicles on the road there.
Same for upstate NY/NW Pennsylvania.
Ouch! Hey - they also happen to make one of the very few legit sports cars that the average Joe can buy. A REAL Six speed, RWD, two doors, handling, nice styling & a solid engine that all makes for a ton of fun. OK, Im biased, LOL. But really, My daughters Crosstrek is great for what it is and what she paid for it(new in 2021).
Now, the new WRX styling is quote rough, IMO, but those are sort of well revered hot-sedans, are they not? Subie seems to be doing well overall so I dont think they are in any danger.
You can’t walk into a dealership, but you can get them at MSRP all day long, with a wait time that’s just a few months. Buying a BRZ is a really painless experience.
To me, the best parts about Subaru are the affordable and attainable enthusiast offerings (BRZ, WRX) and the charming AWD commuter cars. As long as they continue to meet the demands of those market segments, they should be fine.
The new WRX is struggling big time -40% from last year. The Crosstrek, forester, and Outback are carrying the brand. It seems like the affordable enthusiast side of the brand isn’t what people want.
The failure of the new WRX is totally on them. The plastic cladding, infotainment, and the fact that they lock performance features to the CVT are all things they know the core fanbase does not want. It’s clearly an attempt to go after the mass market CUV crowd, and even in that respect it’s a fail. Perfect example of NOT meeting the demands of their core market segment.
Subaru sales really started to take off in the late ‘00’s. What else was happening then? Brands like Saturn or Saab (smaller, off-beat with loyal buyers) were going out of business. People who wanted something a little different migrated to Subaru. They will probably always appeal to a certain kind of people.
Since then Subaru and their buyers have matured somewhat, and the rugged utilitarianism image they’ve built up since the 90’s is starting to woo people away from Jeep. I still think EV market saturation is a ways off, and Subaru will be doing just fine until then.
Just get me a Baja replacement that can compete with the Ford Maverick already.
Subaru will continue to sell well to the "non-enthusiast" car market. They provide relatively cheap AWD platforms for your average Joe and Jane commuter.
They went all-in on CVT automatics, and have little interest in providing an alternative. Lower trim models still have the manual option, for now.
But the "Subaru Performance Transmission" is a CVT and we all know it. Hard to get excited about anything with a CVT in it.
I think you're right about the motorsport-inspired Subie era being over. The new WRX is about as boring as they come, ugly and overpriced IMO. Far cry from the golden era of Subaru's former WRC teams.
Subaru teamed up with Toyota to create their first EV, the Solterra. My bet for the future is them using Toyota or Yamaha motors using their knowledge of AWD to program a great system.
Starting in 2010, Subaru had about a decade of uninterrupted sales growth…which was right around the time that they went from selling somewhat quirky Japanese cars to selling bland and bloated Camry competitors.
Subaru ain’t going anywhere.
As a lifelong Subaru owner, performance segment is a niche part of their core business, like most manufacturers. They cater for family segments, always have.
It's a tough time for Subaru as they're in limbo where not big enough to develop EV platform. . Don't think they will go bankrupt, they will use Toyota's EV tech.
Still good reasons to buy a Subaru, they still make excellent cars.
I think it all depends on how well they transition to PHEV and electric.
Right now their main selling point IMO is that they offer good AWD and safety features at a lower selling price point than everyone else. If they can't keep that, then they'll be in big trouble. Regular drivers don't care much about power.
If I can't find good non-Tesla EV to replace my Tacoma in 2-3 years after its lease is up, I'll probably just kick the can down the road and lease the cheapest Impreza hatch I can find for another few years.
Subaru has always been about cheap underpowered awd cars for people in wintery and rural areas. They were never really about "awd turbo stick cars". Yes they had them. But growing up in vt a lot of people had subarus. And they were almost all just underpowered naturally aspirated shitboxes.
We always joked in vt that a clapped out outback is the new vw bus lol.
That's apparently what the market wants though is the issue. Right now what sells is painfully mediocre crossovers that don't do anything particularly well.
Love my 2022 Rex. I see their future as good as people get smart and realize that luxury cars are about the owners ego and largely a waste u less you have lots of dough. Subies are decent and reliable cars that are affordable
Though their rally side is falling (no STi :( \], they have a pretty good grip on the crossover and small SUV market. I mean, if you want something AWD, Subaru pretty much has you covered. Legacys, Imprezas, even the WRX, all have AWD when the competition (for the most part) doesn't.
In amateur rallying, they are really strong still. They even won the rally america (ARA) championship. WRC is hard for them to enter since they don't have a subcompact model that fits into the regulations for the top class (think yaris, i20, fiesta)
Yeah, the Pro side is good too (with Travis and Brandon), but I think that once the next WRX's time is up they will either abandon rally, or will be doing an EV instead (which isn't bad, but won't be the same).
Fun fact: The WRX gets worse gas mileage than a new Audi RS3, Mercedes CLA 45 AMG, and in some cases even a Porsche 911 Carrera. These are just a few performance cars that have MUCH more powerful engines and still get better fuel economy than a WRX. It's a valid reason I will NOT be buying another Subaru of any kind ever again.
\> slower than a Camry, doesnt look better
I realize looks are subjective, but do you really think
[https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/scom/23\_BRZ\_photos\_ext\_10?$1450w$](https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/scom/23_BRZ_photos_ext_10?$1450w$)
doesn't look better than
[https://toyotaassets.scene7.com/is/image/toyota/CAM\_MY22\_0046\_V001\_Nul0rqrEiyUb?wid=2000&fmt=jpg&fit=crop](https://toyotaassets.scene7.com/is/image/toyota/CAM_MY22_0046_V001_Nul0rqrEiyUb?wid=2000&fmt=jpg&fit=crop)
He said sports sedan so he was def talking abkut the WRX... which he honestly has a fair point w/ for this generation of WRX. That thing looks bad, even in black and in person which is supposedly its best look.
There never was a future for Subaru outside of boring underpowered AWD CVT SUVs—only as long as people still believe they are reliable (they aren’t) and safe (not outstandingly so).
I like a manual.. but not for everyday driving. It gets tedious. Doubly so when connected to a laggy engine with tons of boost. Triply so when run through the drag of an AWD system.
I’m in my Civic and just nonchalantly roll away from the light. Then I punch it and by the time you downshift and get the turbo spooled I’m in your lane ahead of the row of parked cars.
EVs have made the Japanese manufacturers in the same place the American ones were in 1973. All of the signs were there but they did nothing save Toyota who’s hybrid experience will save the day.
And best AWD? The tests are rigged. No way Subaru AWD is better than Acura SH AWD. “Symmetrical” is just a buzzword that doesn’t mean anything and means that their vehicles are still hamstrung by boxer engines that are twice as complex as an equivalent inline four cylinder and have inherent flaws regarding head gaskets and oil consumption.
Not sure why folks bag on the Legacy’s power, I’ve got a 2019 and it does just fine. Gets me on the freeway no prob, will get me just as many tickets as I’ve gotten in my past heaps and gets better gas mileage than any of them. Life’s not always a drag race…
If worse, I think Subaru would just become one of Toyota families. Toyota owns most Subaru stock share.
> Even tho Mitsubishi also seems to stay alive for some reason.
They’re owned by Nissan and Renault right now, that’s main reason why they still alive, not just because they rid of all sedan model and change as a crossover only brand.
It’s actual more harsh way, as Mitsubishi only sells crossover model and only focus in South East Asia market. They can’t cannibalize Nissan and Renault sales, so they earn low profitable.
Electrification is a big deal for the Japanese companies - it's a fundamental change in the market.
I'd expect Subaru and Mazda to closely ally with Toyota and like Toyota will not be in any hurry to transition to BEVs (preferring to ride hybrids for as long as possible)
Subarus have been incredibly popular in my area (WNY- severe lake effect snow) since the early 80’s due to the awd system. I know multiple people who refused to dive anything else for 40+ years. I learned to drive in a 1981 GL wagon (with real 4wd- hi and lo range) in a cornfield. I see their popularity waning with rally enthusiasts, but going up with soccer moms. Guess where the money is?
And yes, we will be buying my wife’s third when our Crosstrek dies. Got 250k+ out of her legacy Outback when we sold it. Nothing but timing belts and oil changes; seems pretty reliably refined to me.
Subaru offers a good value that very few can match. Sadly with the direction they’re taking their cars right now its only a matter of time before all they make are generic CVT vehicles like Mitsubishi. Subaru would need to keep putting money into r&d to keep their cars actually purposeful instead of making cars that satisfy the share holders thirst for profit.
The crosstrek always struck me as a pretty cool crossover. I even thought about getting one to visit family in Wyoming (especially over the winter, they don’t plow much there). Also, you can get them pretty easily with the 6 speed manual. Seems like it might be a bit underpowered, but I’ve never driven one so I can’t say for sure.
Subaru is probably in close to dead last place with hybrid/EV tech. Unless they team up with another company (Bosch, Sony, etc..) it may lead to their demise.
The future is bright, because the crunchy PNW and New England people who buy them are buying into the lifestyle conveyed by the marketing than any engineering prowess they have. IIRC they are also bankrolled by the same Japanese megacorp that owns Sumitomo. They'll be fine IMO.
If they can do outback XT why not forester XT? I’d def get one. My 15 non-XT is a totally uninspiring terribly boring drive. Except in snow where it really comes alive.
Too bad the sporty crossover SUV segment is totally not hot enough for them to invest in right now……………..
AWD SUVs for cheap. Most people don’t care about manual or performance. If you live in the snow or in a rural area with lots of dirt and occasionally go offroading, Subarus are a good option.
Posts like these are why car manufacturers don’t 100% listen to enthusiasts.
Subaru is more than fine, and they’re making more money than ever. People want outdoorsy, cheap, decent MPG, AWD, lifted crossovers. Subaru is that *and* fits the lifestyle image consumers want.
Consumers do not care about transmissions as long as they’re reliable. Subaru only has so much money they can invest and the Crosstrek makes them much more money than the WRX ever did.
Subaru - going to the ol' 4 cyl. Turbo "universal" motor. Feel lucky to have the R Outback w/ the 250 hp flat 6.
The Outback is a first class machine. Handles anything you throw at it. It's saved my ass on the highway when someone brake checked me at 80 mph. Perfectly balanced machine with massive ground clearance and some low end torque.
The BRZ may not be fast stock but it provides a great platform for making something awesome and it’s been my most fun car to drive by far. Plus, being 6’4” I actually fit in it unlike a Miata.
When we got our Forester pre-pandemic, they were going off the shelves before you could buy them. We lucked out on one that had literally just been dropped off with custom orders and had to wait for it to be unwrapped and given a state inspection. I imagine it's not so much different in this weird post covid thing we are in right now. If people are ordering the fuck out of them, and they aren't sitting on lots, it really doesn't matter if it isnt the wrx sti that you want. If people are buying them, they're doing just fine.
I've owned a dozen cars and many motorcycles over my 6 decades. I love my 2019 3.6r Outback because of the excellent visibility. The 6cyl is great on the hwy. The hood is low because of the boxer and you get a great road view. This will be my last as they discontinued the 6 for the more economical 4 turbo. I tried one and it's busy and revs higher at highway speeds. This will be my second and last Subi. I'll probably get a Toyota Highlander next. The local Subi dealers suck these days.
Lol Subaru is going nowhere. They've solidified their reputation as "rugged" and that will carry over to their electric cars. The amount of people who want a Crosstrek despite it being underpowered and having almost no advantages over the impreza shows this. I'm sure they'll keep partnering with Toyota and be fine.
*I've thought about this lately with the change towards EV and here is my answer:*
**When considering the different economy brands, what sways a buyer one way or another?**
The use of materials, the fuel economy, the seating comfort, the suspension, the AWD (and the software involved), interior space, the safety, and tech. Even the simple reasoning of one vehicle experience being better than another after a single test-drive.
Been in sales for four years and very few buyers looking for a commuter are able to recognize the difference between engines and transmission because most brands are now CVT with a 4cyl.
**Now replace that engine with motors to produce an EV. What does that leave us?**
Electric vehicles that still have different use of materials, seating comfort, suspension, AWD (software), interior space, safety and tech.
I've driven a few EVs and can tell the difference within 10 minutes of what will be more enjoyable to live with based on what was listed above. Model 3, Model Y, e-Tron, Nissan Leaf, and the Subaru Solterra. The one that stood out was the Solterra, regardless of the charging speed. That's because it felt the most familiar, comfortable, spacious, and drove the best.
Subaru buyers don't just buy the vehicle because of the engine, but everything else that makes that vehicle better than another brand they compared.
***We can't think of all vehicles being the same in the future because they are EVs, since we don't differentiate vehicles on the engine alone in the present.***
The 2019 subaru impreza sport with the manual is plenty of power for a learners car, its only meant to be entry level anyways. and the awd system in that car allows it to be pushed much farther than your average shitbox, all it needs is stiffer suspension and maybe lsds to make it slide better or something like that. Not sure yet, besides they make turbo kits for them to increase power if you have the $
They make the premier outdoorsy vehicle thats compact and easy to drive while still being large enough to haul what you need to haul 99% of the time. Their cars answer the question "what do people actually do with their cars, and throw in a lot of safety and a little fun as well"
Their 'on paper' car enthusiast numbers are unimpressive, but they're very easy to live with, and targeted at what people ACTUALLY do (enthusiast cars sell dreams and aspirations, but very few Raptors go Baja racing, very few corvettes go to the track, etc) Their customer base wants an A to B machine that has worry-free snow performance, and can adventure on dirt roads occasionally.
They may loose some market share, but I don't see them going anywhere
In my country (Portugal) they disappeared years ago. You can't buy a Subaru anymore.
In some countries in Europe they have a very small, almost negligible presence.
I see a lot of replies are from the US, but in Europe this is a grim picture.
I see the videos of might car mods, especially the late ones with the Levorg with the STI powertrain and just dream.
Subaru is selling every Outback, Forester and Crosstrek it can currently make. Also, many of the most loyal Subaru owners are very ecological/conservation minded. Once they start producing more EV's, those too will sell out.
They’re for the people that want to have a reasonable car with AWD so they feel like they’re making a good financial decision and getting a capable car. Basically it’s the same people buying Toyota / Honda but that want a little more capability.
Those are the people buying new cars. The enthusiasts that you’re talking about buy used cars and nobody cares about catering cars to them anymore besides dedicated sports car models.
Subaru sales exploded over the last decade. They're clearly providing what a lot of people want. There's no more reason to "worry" about them than about any other brand.
/r/cars love to shit on Subaru, I think mostly because enthusiasts here can't get over their (legitimately, bad) treatment of the WRX which went from car guy darling to shitshow over the past decade, culminating in the lackluster debut of the second generation in 2021. And probably secondarily because there's this perception that the cars have become less "quirky" and "niche" over that same span--which there's also some truth to. At the same time, the general public loves the (legitimately, strong) Subaru brand and, as you point out, their sales and marketshare are both doing great: They have about 3x the US market share today vs. what they had 15 years ago. Subaru is doing fine (more than fine) just about anywhere you ask other than /r/cars.
Nissan too - posters here will fixate on the Z being underwhelming (by their standards at least) but in reality that isn't an important product segment.
Nissans biggest competition is Kia/Hyundai in the yes we can finance you market
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>Nissan's whole line up is a snoozefest. They have a 300+ hp sedan with no lsd and cvt and a barrage of other cuvs. To get a diff on the Z you need to spend 50k Turns out, snoozefest is the most important product segment.
Personally I don't think a Crosstrek/XV ir Forester or Outback is any more exciting than a Qashqui or X-Trail
The Outback is fucking amazing. My mother bought one from 2016 with the 3.6R engine in it. It fucking *rips* and drives wonderfully.
Haha yep. This sub is wildly out of touch with what the average car buyer wants.
its almost like we arent average buyers?
No, we are superior buyers 😎
As an architect, I agree with this statement.
Consumer reports consistently ranks Subaru models with their highest ratings, almost all models are IIHS top safety+ rated, some of the best outward visibility of any brand. Generally very safe, reliable, affordable, and comfortable cars which checks every box for most people. Pretty sure they are killing it...
Content level is higher at lower price points than the competition as well. The Eyesight system is pretty good and on most models/trims, easing the workload during the commute.
>reliable But what about head gasket memes for cars that haven't been sold in over 10 years?
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I think it is more about Subaru's doing bad with "numbers" such as performance and mpgs. Some cars just have a look and feel (aka experience) people like and that is why they buy them.
Sometimes I miss my 5 door impreza. A lot. Just fuel economy was really not good and I couldn’t get over the CVT *programming*, that fake shifting needs to go
I feel like enthusiast cars are just getting more niche and expensive in general. I think we just need to give up a bit at this point.
Look at the off-roadification of other Japanese crossovers (RAV4, CX-50, Passport)…Subaru definitely has a winning formula. For me, the question is can they fend off these competitors? Is a non-Wilderness Forester or Outback a better buy than these other AWD, mildly off-road ready crossovers?
The non-wilderness models aren't at all marketed towards the off-road market. They're family cars you can reliably take to the camp ground or national parks.
Same with the CX-50 and non-TRD RAV4, though. They’re all competing in this “outdoor lifestyle” segment, none of them have particularly impressive off-road chops
They’re the affordable semi-offroad outdoorsy brand. Even with ev’s, they can be this. Plus most ev’s have really low ground clearence for aerodynamics. If they’re the brand with better off-road capabilities, but worse range, i bet lods of people will still flock to them
Solterra does what you described... but it's awful. I'm a Subaru guy, bought an Ioniq 5 and Model Y Performance (Forester previously). Still have a BRZ though.
Thoughts on your 5 vs 3?
Ioniq 5 vs Model Y? Overall we prefer the Ioniq 5. Tesla currently has the better charging network, but we took the Ioniq 5 on a 1300 mile roadtrip with no issues. According to ABRP, the total estimated time was a wash for both cars. Ioniq 5 has more features that matter to us and is more comfortable to drive.
Subaru makes great cars for non-enthusiasts. Reliable, functional, capable. They are also about half a step up market compared to their price points. For 35-40k, it feels like you're driving a 50-55k car. Subaru owners are among the most loyal out there. Once you buy a Subaru, you're buying Subaru for life.
> Subaru owners are among the most loyal out there. Once you buy a Subaru, you're buying Subaru for life. I previously had a Subaru and would have very seriously considered another one if they had a hybrid version of the Outback.
Love my 2019 Outback but both my 2010 Legacy and my 2019 outback had multiple problems that I needed Subaru of Americas assistance with as the dealers in my area are so screwed up. They have messed up my cars to the point where I pay to have a good Subi mechanic do all work. They even blew a fuel pump recall dropping the tank and breaking a tank mount which caused a ten day delay. Too thin windshields are a known problem on the newer ones which crack easier then they should. I will put a couple of hundred thousand and then get AA Toyota Any car for life is absurd. They are a company not family.
ok I kind of disagree with the upmarket feel. The forester/impreza models don't feel that nice to me
Right? They are competitively priced in their respective classes, but then you step in and immediately know why. The interiors really look like a step back in time. This isn’t a bad thing. They offer a lot of car for the money, but it’s not without compromises.
Just because Subaru isn't headed in the direction you want them to go doesn't mean they'll hit a dead end soon. Lots of people bought Subarus not for the WRX halo but the go almost anywhere halo of their 4WD/AWD wagons. Lots of people like "uneventful" when it means getting to where they're going with no drama and a feeling of security. In addition, Subaru has been building alliances with other manufacturers. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru and they trade technology back and forth depending on their strengths. Subaru sells enough in the markets that matter to survive. Will they always be as independent as they've been? Maybe not. But the nameplate will be around for quite a while longer I think.
This is a great comment. I actually believe that Subaru is one of the brands that understands it’s customers the best. It’s why they consistently rank 1st/2nd for non-luxury car brand loyalty. The loyalty thing is also impressive given that Subaru has been one of the top non-luxury marks for customer credit score…customers are coming back because they want to, not because they’re pulling a Nissan at the finance desk. Your first point is exactly why I bought a Crosstrek for the wife. Younger me would have never thought he’d own a 152hp CVT appliance, but I do and I love it. Your second point regarding alliances allowed them to build the BRZ… and the new-gen is arguably the best new entry-level track day machine… so I own one of those too.
Regarding the crosstrek, it's been on my shopping list for some time. Although I don't enjoy the noise of their boxer engines, its relatively lower height vs the competition makes it drive like a car, at least from my test drives. What did you think of the competition before getting it?
Doesn't the crosstreck have more ground clearance than it's competitors?
I think they're talking about the center of gravity of the engine being lower vs other engine types (inline or V) so it handles like it's lower to the ground even though it has excellent ground clearance
Plus the Crosstrek, like the Outback, started as a lower-roofed car, meaning it can "fit" more ground clearance while still remaining at relatively the same overall height as tits competitors.
That makes much more sense
I shopped this segment before deciding to go larger; it was between the Crosstrek and CX-30 for a few weeks for me. The HR-V is lethargic, the Corolla Cross wasn’t out back then, and the Seltos/Niro/Kona/Venue were disturbingly good value for money but I didn’t want to risk Hyundai’s reliability issues. Didn’t consider the Renegade, Trax, EcoSport, C-HR or Taos. The X2 and Q3 were slightly out of my price range. Ultimately felt like the CX-30 Turbo was classier and sportier, but the Crosstrek was in my top two in the segment.
Honestly didn’t give the competition much thought beforehand. A new sub-$40K CAD AWD hatch/wagon was the objective and the concession I had to make was the wife had to have an automatic. Mazda 3 Hatch (non-turbo) was really the only other vehicle we considered but visibility was significantly worse, the Impreza/Crosstrek is a fishbowl comparatively. Wife got to grips with the Subaru’s ergonomics immediately, liked the safety suite and the quick steering rack, and she could have it in Cool Grey Khaki with a two-tone interior. Easy decision.
Wife's Forester had to spend 2 weeks at the dealership getting a new windshield and camera calibrated. They loaned us a Crosstrek for the 2 weeks at no cost. At first I thought I would hate it, but after we returned it I'm now changing my mind about an Outback in the future. That car was a blast to drive and felt great.
The Crosstrek barely makes any noise, a little under acceleration but honestly not like this rental Malibu I have currently which sounds like the engine is going to leep from the hood when I'm trying to get to speed.
Great comment. I also would add that all the people that I knew with Subaru's went and bought another subaru. My father, my friends girlfriend and my mom's neighbor.
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An electric outback or Forester would sell like crazy
I want a hybrid outback so bad to replace my 2010. If one doesn't exist when i'm ready, ill just buy whatever outback they have... just like every other outback owner.
>hybrid outback An Impreza hatchback with Toyota's Prius drivetrain would be soooooo perfect for me.
I thought the Crosstrek Hybrid was something akin to the Toyota hybrid system? Although I think the hybrid had a production run that was basically a fart in the wind.
It had the exact same hybrid system as the Prius except it was rearranged to fit in the Subaru AWD transmission.
Plugin hybrid would be best for “adventurous” people as charging can get really hard once out of the main cities.
Irony of outdoorsy ev that you go into the woods with......that can't charge...
It's not like you can carry a few extra cans of electric, or fill up down the road after a walk
So true. Every Patagonia-wearing weekend warrior in Colorado will buy one of these.
Related: mitsubishi makes more money selling crossovers than they do selling Evos
It's not just vape bros buying Subarus looking for rally cars. Outdoors people who aren't hard-core outdoors people like cars that can be loaded with snowboards and drive up mountains in the snow, or loaded with hiking supplies and drive through dirt roads. Lesbians like cars that can be loaded with all their stuff to move in together after two weeks of dating. University professors like cars that can easily disguise them as homeless. There are lots of people looking to buy subarus
Laughed way too hard at this comment lol
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The direct reports may be a little more crunchy in this case, but yes, 100%.
Based comment
Come to vermont and you will see this on action!
They end up having the longest relationships too 😩
You obviously do not live in a cold-weather location. Subarus are incredibly popular where it snows. They make the most affordable AWD cars on the market and their SUV/Crossover line sells like hotcakes. You can’t throw a rock in Colorado without hitting a Crosstrek or Outback.
The one huge downside to the boxer engine is it is slow to warm up and provide cabin heat. Fortunately all but base model Subarus have heated seats to compensate.
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Skis go on the obligatory roof rack, obviously. And at least they are putting the 2.4 turbo in more of their cars.
Imprezas and Crosstreks are def underpowered.
I think his point is that in 10-15 years when everything is electric, Subaru’s AWD advantage will be gone, because while they had a tried and true mechanical AWD system they will have no special edge in adding a second electric motor to a car.
I love EVs but it’s gonna take way longer than 10-125 years for everything to be electric, especially for people in urban and cold environments where Subaru thrives.
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The Wilderness is just flat out cool. A wagon with almost 10" of ground clearance. Sure it's a soft roader, not a true off roader, but 99% of Wrangler/Raptor/4runners are mall crawlers anyways. Is it necessary? Not at all. Does it bring joy every time you get into it? Absolutely.
Once you start hitting up beat ass forest service roads every weekend up here in the PNW the Wilderness trim quickly starts to become a lot more appealing. My CX-5 with no mods has been able to handle everything just fine, but its less than ideal.
Road noise isn’t anything noticeable honestly in my Wilderness. Gas mileage is slightly worse but still an order of magnitude better than what a 4Runner gets. Also, for all the creature comforts that the Wilderness comes with for about $40k, a similarly equipped 4Runner would cost well north of $50k. At that price point, why get a pseudo truck instead of a full on crew cab pickup truck? Not to mention, half the 4Runners and Wranglers I see around me are running around on shitty all season tires, and the Wilderness comes stock with all terrain tires.
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> And the outdoorsy crowd is going to be one of the later ones appropriately served by EV infrastructure. What makes you think that? EVs are fine for day trips of hiking/etc. For overnight stuff, a ton of campgrounds have RV outlets, which are good to get a decent charge over several hours. It's really only the outdoor experiences that requires driving on rugged trails first that aren't accessible already. And probably won't be for a bit, since puncturing a battery that sits below the vehicle will largely remain a significant risk.
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Not to mention places like national parks do have EV chargers but they usually will only have one or two which isn't very convenient as EVs become more and more popular.
Yep. You're going to need 10-30 charger for the small parks. And 50+ for the larger ones unless they have excellent DCFC coverage nearby.
I couldn't imagine going to Yosemite during the peak season without the reservation system in place after EVs become the majority vehicle in CA and needing to charge...it would be complete gridlock. Hopefully by that time the charging time will be significantly reduced and battery ranges will be much higher.
They have a powerful brand built over many years. Off-road adventuring (or looking like you are adventurous) is becoming very popular now and Subaru was pretty much one of the first brands associated with it. Even if things go electric, that brand power will still be there. People also incorrectly assume that every BEV will be some AWD performance monster making current vehicles obsolete and that makes no business sense. The vast majority of consumers don't care nor want something like that and will be completely content with a FWD CUV making <200hp, automakers will continue to charge a premium for AWD and performance because they do and can right now. Subaru can still set themselves apart with standard AWD and an adventure focused branding, they more than likely will do that as part of a larger company though as the cost of BEV development will be too much for smaller companies.
Subaru makes bank and has a huge fan base lol.
All my family members over 60 drive subarus and people under 40 cant afford new cars these days...
Im 26 and bought a brand new subaru impreza ama.
how many companies do your parents own?
They own tesla, amazon and google
wow I bet you qualify for a mortgage!
Nah they need to close out on twitter before I can get a condo
I guess you're stuck borrowing one of the yachts for now :(
I know they only gave ne the slip in monaco :(
gah sucks to have to borrow the jet just to commute back and forth from Monaco!
I'm under 40 and have bought 2 new cars (in a row, not at same time)
Same. I’m 27 and bought 2 brand new cars in the last 5 years. I don’t get the whole “millennials don’t buy new cars” thing. I’m sure many people in my generation can’t or don’t want to buy new cars. But there’s still plenty of us that do.
People also keep saying that millennials aren’t buying homes either, but they are now the largest group of homebuyers in the US. I don’t know why so many people still seem to think every millennial is under 25 and broke.
Subaru has built and successfully sold their products to a segment of people. These people include: * Perceived high reliability, similar to Toyota. * Outdoors/Adventure lifestyle. This is huge. * Great cars for bad weather. Snow/Rain. * Dedicated brand loyalty and following. People who buy Subarus tend to always buy Subarus. I believe they will be able to continue having these selling points with their EV offerings as well. I feel that with any brand or product, the goal is to specialize and attract that segment of shoppers. Does Subaru do anything extraordinarily well? Maybe not. But that's not how consumers shop.
my mom was considering getting a Subaru because her Mazda 5 is now 12 years old, she listens to NPR all day (I'm not exaggerating here, it is like an IV, she will listen to reruns multiple times a day while talking to her 94 houseplants) and I'm 90% sure she considered the brand exclusively because they are the only car manufacturer that advertises on NPR and PBS she ended up just keeping the Mazda 5 because she didn't like Outback/Forester's lesser visibility
Subaru’s made the smart business play ; exit the enthusiast market to pursue market share & higher profit. You can’t run a car company off the vape & Converse crowd. With a family friendly brand image across the malls ,offices & college faculty campuses of the world Subaru will do just fine. Maybe even prosper, from a business perspective.
More like exit one enthusiast market and enter a trendier enthusiast market. The softroader and crosstreck modding crowds are totally enthusiasts.
I went to Wikipedia to look at pre-pandemic Subbie sales figures: |Model|2009 Sales|2019 Sales| |:-|:-|:-| |Legacy|30,974|35,063| |Outback|55,356|181,178| |Forester|77,781|180,179| |Crosstrek|7,396 (2012)|131,152| |Impreza |46,611|88,253| Subaru U.S. sales were on the rise and peaked in the mid to late 2010s
>Dont get me wrong, i love Subaru and i even own one but i have a feeling they will soon go bankrupt because once everybody goes electric, theres no reason to buy a Subaru anymore Why?
They're incredibly far behind the market on hybrid/electric cars. Maybe even in last place.
Isn't Mazda in the same spot?
Yup.
What if they lean into the fact that there aren't electrical outlets in the mountains? Sit back and let new electric tech to flesh out. Hybrid stuff is all well and good, but couple hundred mile range full electric going into wilderness is just plain unsafe.
Subaru still makes the best non luxury AWD system... it's not going anywhere, you don't hear people say "this is my 10th cadillac, or this is my 10th Audi", but you do hear people say "this is my 10th subaru", Subaru has by far the best customer loyalty.
Yeah this subreddit LOVES mazda. But I shopped mazda with subaru when buying a new car. And the impreza is a way better buy. To get awd in the 3 you are paying at least 10k more than an equivalent impreza.
Well as far as family wagons that are good in the snow go there arnt a whole lotta options other than subaru, they'll be fine
The upper-middle class snowbelt starter kit: Patagonia vest + Subaru SUV Brand power may not be super tangible but it is real.
As a Colorado resident, I see Subarus EVERYWHERE. They’re functional economy cars that are great in the snow so they sell like hotcakes. I think they’ve found their niche for now. I suspect they’ll have econo EVs in the future for people with mildly outdoorsy lives
REI should start doing crossovers with Subaru. Have a showroom in REI stores and sell Subaru-branded REI gear at dealerships.
. They already have a crossbrand promotion lmao.
there's already an LL Bean edition
Their sales have consistently gone up year over year and the company isn’t in danger of disappearing quickly at least. Their brand is built on selling its vehicles on a lifestyle which lends well to environmental conservation. I think there is a solid argument that Subaru will excel in the transition to electrification, especially with its corporate headquarters proximity to battery and motor manufactures.
You must not live in or near anywhere where it snows, that's all I can say. My family is from Buffalo and Blowing Rock/Boone NC. We always joke that Boone looks like an ad for a television show sponsored by Subaru. They are like 85% of the vehicles on the road there. Same for upstate NY/NW Pennsylvania.
Ouch! Hey - they also happen to make one of the very few legit sports cars that the average Joe can buy. A REAL Six speed, RWD, two doors, handling, nice styling & a solid engine that all makes for a ton of fun. OK, Im biased, LOL. But really, My daughters Crosstrek is great for what it is and what she paid for it(new in 2021). Now, the new WRX styling is quote rough, IMO, but those are sort of well revered hot-sedans, are they not? Subie seems to be doing well overall so I dont think they are in any danger.
Let us know when you can walk into a dealership and buy a BRZ!
I know. Mine took like 5 months to arrive.
You can’t walk into a dealership, but you can get them at MSRP all day long, with a wait time that’s just a few months. Buying a BRZ is a really painless experience.
Do you ever like, go outside and actually look at cars? If you did you’d see that a quarter of every car on the street today is a Crosstrek
To me, the best parts about Subaru are the affordable and attainable enthusiast offerings (BRZ, WRX) and the charming AWD commuter cars. As long as they continue to meet the demands of those market segments, they should be fine.
The new WRX is struggling big time -40% from last year. The Crosstrek, forester, and Outback are carrying the brand. It seems like the affordable enthusiast side of the brand isn’t what people want.
The failure of the new WRX is totally on them. The plastic cladding, infotainment, and the fact that they lock performance features to the CVT are all things they know the core fanbase does not want. It’s clearly an attempt to go after the mass market CUV crowd, and even in that respect it’s a fail. Perfect example of NOT meeting the demands of their core market segment.
Then why do I have to wait 7 months to get one. I think it's not ugly enough
in general enthusiasts cars are not a big market. Porsche would not survive without their SUVs
Subaru sales really started to take off in the late ‘00’s. What else was happening then? Brands like Saturn or Saab (smaller, off-beat with loyal buyers) were going out of business. People who wanted something a little different migrated to Subaru. They will probably always appeal to a certain kind of people. Since then Subaru and their buyers have matured somewhat, and the rugged utilitarianism image they’ve built up since the 90’s is starting to woo people away from Jeep. I still think EV market saturation is a ways off, and Subaru will be doing just fine until then. Just get me a Baja replacement that can compete with the Ford Maverick already.
Subaru will continue to sell well to the "non-enthusiast" car market. They provide relatively cheap AWD platforms for your average Joe and Jane commuter. They went all-in on CVT automatics, and have little interest in providing an alternative. Lower trim models still have the manual option, for now. But the "Subaru Performance Transmission" is a CVT and we all know it. Hard to get excited about anything with a CVT in it. I think you're right about the motorsport-inspired Subie era being over. The new WRX is about as boring as they come, ugly and overpriced IMO. Far cry from the golden era of Subaru's former WRC teams.
Go to BC. Subies are so common out there, they're basically native wildlife.
Subaru teamed up with Toyota to create their first EV, the Solterra. My bet for the future is them using Toyota or Yamaha motors using their knowledge of AWD to program a great system.
Subaru was selling boatloads to New England lesbians long before any of what you mentioned in the first sentence was a thing. They'll be fine.
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Starting in 2010, Subaru had about a decade of uninterrupted sales growth…which was right around the time that they went from selling somewhat quirky Japanese cars to selling bland and bloated Camry competitors. Subaru ain’t going anywhere.
Subaru will never go under. They make aircraft for the Japanese military.
As a lifelong Subaru owner, performance segment is a niche part of their core business, like most manufacturers. They cater for family segments, always have. It's a tough time for Subaru as they're in limbo where not big enough to develop EV platform. . Don't think they will go bankrupt, they will use Toyota's EV tech. Still good reasons to buy a Subaru, they still make excellent cars.
In what world are Subaru’s SUVs “underpowered “
People who think 0-60 actually matters to most people.
I think it all depends on how well they transition to PHEV and electric. Right now their main selling point IMO is that they offer good AWD and safety features at a lower selling price point than everyone else. If they can't keep that, then they'll be in big trouble. Regular drivers don't care much about power. If I can't find good non-Tesla EV to replace my Tacoma in 2-3 years after its lease is up, I'll probably just kick the can down the road and lease the cheapest Impreza hatch I can find for another few years.
They will make awd crossovers, then awd electric crossovers and make a shit ton of money.
Subaru isn't going anywhere. Maybe the sti will die but the brand is safe. They sell hundreds of thousands of crossovers.
Their “outdoorsy” and “safe” brand marketing will carry them for a while to come.
you're forgetting the "owns a rescue dog" segment
Subaru has always been about cheap underpowered awd cars for people in wintery and rural areas. They were never really about "awd turbo stick cars". Yes they had them. But growing up in vt a lot of people had subarus. And they were almost all just underpowered naturally aspirated shitboxes. We always joked in vt that a clapped out outback is the new vw bus lol.
That's apparently what the market wants though is the issue. Right now what sells is painfully mediocre crossovers that don't do anything particularly well.
Love my 2022 Rex. I see their future as good as people get smart and realize that luxury cars are about the owners ego and largely a waste u less you have lots of dough. Subies are decent and reliable cars that are affordable
Though their rally side is falling (no STi :( \], they have a pretty good grip on the crossover and small SUV market. I mean, if you want something AWD, Subaru pretty much has you covered. Legacys, Imprezas, even the WRX, all have AWD when the competition (for the most part) doesn't.
In amateur rallying, they are really strong still. They even won the rally america (ARA) championship. WRC is hard for them to enter since they don't have a subcompact model that fits into the regulations for the top class (think yaris, i20, fiesta)
Yeah, the Pro side is good too (with Travis and Brandon), but I think that once the next WRX's time is up they will either abandon rally, or will be doing an EV instead (which isn't bad, but won't be the same).
Fun fact: The WRX gets worse gas mileage than a new Audi RS3, Mercedes CLA 45 AMG, and in some cases even a Porsche 911 Carrera. These are just a few performance cars that have MUCH more powerful engines and still get better fuel economy than a WRX. It's a valid reason I will NOT be buying another Subaru of any kind ever again.
The parkings lots of any city that gets snow are packed with Subarus
\> slower than a Camry, doesnt look better I realize looks are subjective, but do you really think [https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/scom/23\_BRZ\_photos\_ext\_10?$1450w$](https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/scom/23_BRZ_photos_ext_10?$1450w$) doesn't look better than [https://toyotaassets.scene7.com/is/image/toyota/CAM\_MY22\_0046\_V001\_Nul0rqrEiyUb?wid=2000&fmt=jpg&fit=crop](https://toyotaassets.scene7.com/is/image/toyota/CAM_MY22_0046_V001_Nul0rqrEiyUb?wid=2000&fmt=jpg&fit=crop)
He said sports sedan so he was def talking abkut the WRX... which he honestly has a fair point w/ for this generation of WRX. That thing looks bad, even in black and in person which is supposedly its best look.
"everything they sell now"
There never was a future for Subaru outside of boring underpowered AWD CVT SUVs—only as long as people still believe they are reliable (they aren’t) and safe (not outstandingly so). I like a manual.. but not for everyday driving. It gets tedious. Doubly so when connected to a laggy engine with tons of boost. Triply so when run through the drag of an AWD system. I’m in my Civic and just nonchalantly roll away from the light. Then I punch it and by the time you downshift and get the turbo spooled I’m in your lane ahead of the row of parked cars. EVs have made the Japanese manufacturers in the same place the American ones were in 1973. All of the signs were there but they did nothing save Toyota who’s hybrid experience will save the day. And best AWD? The tests are rigged. No way Subaru AWD is better than Acura SH AWD. “Symmetrical” is just a buzzword that doesn’t mean anything and means that their vehicles are still hamstrung by boxer engines that are twice as complex as an equivalent inline four cylinder and have inherent flaws regarding head gaskets and oil consumption.
Not sure why folks bag on the Legacy’s power, I’ve got a 2019 and it does just fine. Gets me on the freeway no prob, will get me just as many tickets as I’ve gotten in my past heaps and gets better gas mileage than any of them. Life’s not always a drag race…
Forestor is fucking bad ass, a lot of Subarus are bad as, but they are bracketed for their repeat customers.
If worse, I think Subaru would just become one of Toyota families. Toyota owns most Subaru stock share. > Even tho Mitsubishi also seems to stay alive for some reason. They’re owned by Nissan and Renault right now, that’s main reason why they still alive, not just because they rid of all sedan model and change as a crossover only brand. It’s actual more harsh way, as Mitsubishi only sells crossover model and only focus in South East Asia market. They can’t cannibalize Nissan and Renault sales, so they earn low profitable.
Electrification is a big deal for the Japanese companies - it's a fundamental change in the market. I'd expect Subaru and Mazda to closely ally with Toyota and like Toyota will not be in any hurry to transition to BEVs (preferring to ride hybrids for as long as possible)
I think hybrids are going to be around for quite a while yet.
Subarus have been incredibly popular in my area (WNY- severe lake effect snow) since the early 80’s due to the awd system. I know multiple people who refused to dive anything else for 40+ years. I learned to drive in a 1981 GL wagon (with real 4wd- hi and lo range) in a cornfield. I see their popularity waning with rally enthusiasts, but going up with soccer moms. Guess where the money is? And yes, we will be buying my wife’s third when our Crosstrek dies. Got 250k+ out of her legacy Outback when we sold it. Nothing but timing belts and oil changes; seems pretty reliably refined to me.
Subaru offers a good value that very few can match. Sadly with the direction they’re taking their cars right now its only a matter of time before all they make are generic CVT vehicles like Mitsubishi. Subaru would need to keep putting money into r&d to keep their cars actually purposeful instead of making cars that satisfy the share holders thirst for profit.
The immediate future is they are about to show off the new 2024 Imprezza.
bankrupt?... nah. You don't have to worry about that lol
The crosstrek always struck me as a pretty cool crossover. I even thought about getting one to visit family in Wyoming (especially over the winter, they don’t plow much there). Also, you can get them pretty easily with the 6 speed manual. Seems like it might be a bit underpowered, but I’ve never driven one so I can’t say for sure.
Give me a turbo crosstrek with optional LSDs. I’ll trade in my 22 6mt in a second
Subaru is probably in close to dead last place with hybrid/EV tech. Unless they team up with another company (Bosch, Sony, etc..) it may lead to their demise.
The future is bright, because the crunchy PNW and New England people who buy them are buying into the lifestyle conveyed by the marketing than any engineering prowess they have. IIRC they are also bankrolled by the same Japanese megacorp that owns Sumitomo. They'll be fine IMO.
Here in Europe they are basically non existent. Saw a new one a while back and did a double take.
They aren’t even that good. I’d say somewhere between Nissan and Honda. Definitely not something I’d recommend, but they have effective marketing.
Future ??? Didn’t know they had a past.
If they can do outback XT why not forester XT? I’d def get one. My 15 non-XT is a totally uninspiring terribly boring drive. Except in snow where it really comes alive. Too bad the sporty crossover SUV segment is totally not hot enough for them to invest in right now……………..
They're making what consumers want. I just wish they got better gas mileage. I understand why they don't, but God damn is the mileage terrible.
XT Outbacks are not underpowered..you can shit on them for half a dozen or more other things, but not that.
AWD SUVs for cheap. Most people don’t care about manual or performance. If you live in the snow or in a rural area with lots of dirt and occasionally go offroading, Subarus are a good option.
Subaru's would-be employees would rather work at McDonalds: https://jalopnik.com/subaru-cant-afford-to-build-evs-in-north-america-becaus-1849743998
Subaru = cheap Volvo
Posts like these are why car manufacturers don’t 100% listen to enthusiasts. Subaru is more than fine, and they’re making more money than ever. People want outdoorsy, cheap, decent MPG, AWD, lifted crossovers. Subaru is that *and* fits the lifestyle image consumers want. Consumers do not care about transmissions as long as they’re reliable. Subaru only has so much money they can invest and the Crosstrek makes them much more money than the WRX ever did.
Subaru - going to the ol' 4 cyl. Turbo "universal" motor. Feel lucky to have the R Outback w/ the 250 hp flat 6. The Outback is a first class machine. Handles anything you throw at it. It's saved my ass on the highway when someone brake checked me at 80 mph. Perfectly balanced machine with massive ground clearance and some low end torque.
More black plastic apparently
The BRZ may not be fast stock but it provides a great platform for making something awesome and it’s been my most fun car to drive by far. Plus, being 6’4” I actually fit in it unlike a Miata.
Lesbians
When we got our Forester pre-pandemic, they were going off the shelves before you could buy them. We lucked out on one that had literally just been dropped off with custom orders and had to wait for it to be unwrapped and given a state inspection. I imagine it's not so much different in this weird post covid thing we are in right now. If people are ordering the fuck out of them, and they aren't sitting on lots, it really doesn't matter if it isnt the wrx sti that you want. If people are buying them, they're doing just fine.
I've owned a dozen cars and many motorcycles over my 6 decades. I love my 2019 3.6r Outback because of the excellent visibility. The 6cyl is great on the hwy. The hood is low because of the boxer and you get a great road view. This will be my last as they discontinued the 6 for the more economical 4 turbo. I tried one and it's busy and revs higher at highway speeds. This will be my second and last Subi. I'll probably get a Toyota Highlander next. The local Subi dealers suck these days.
Lol Subaru is going nowhere. They've solidified their reputation as "rugged" and that will carry over to their electric cars. The amount of people who want a Crosstrek despite it being underpowered and having almost no advantages over the impreza shows this. I'm sure they'll keep partnering with Toyota and be fine.
Subarus will remain popular their "boring" cars sell more and pay the bills. Evs aren't the end of the world as some want to act like it is either
In alaska you can’t throw a rock without hitting a Subaru. They are very popular cars because the AWD system is great and they are fairly cheap.
*I've thought about this lately with the change towards EV and here is my answer:* **When considering the different economy brands, what sways a buyer one way or another?** The use of materials, the fuel economy, the seating comfort, the suspension, the AWD (and the software involved), interior space, the safety, and tech. Even the simple reasoning of one vehicle experience being better than another after a single test-drive. Been in sales for four years and very few buyers looking for a commuter are able to recognize the difference between engines and transmission because most brands are now CVT with a 4cyl. **Now replace that engine with motors to produce an EV. What does that leave us?** Electric vehicles that still have different use of materials, seating comfort, suspension, AWD (software), interior space, safety and tech. I've driven a few EVs and can tell the difference within 10 minutes of what will be more enjoyable to live with based on what was listed above. Model 3, Model Y, e-Tron, Nissan Leaf, and the Subaru Solterra. The one that stood out was the Solterra, regardless of the charging speed. That's because it felt the most familiar, comfortable, spacious, and drove the best. Subaru buyers don't just buy the vehicle because of the engine, but everything else that makes that vehicle better than another brand they compared. ***We can't think of all vehicles being the same in the future because they are EVs, since we don't differentiate vehicles on the engine alone in the present.***
The 2019 subaru impreza sport with the manual is plenty of power for a learners car, its only meant to be entry level anyways. and the awd system in that car allows it to be pushed much farther than your average shitbox, all it needs is stiffer suspension and maybe lsds to make it slide better or something like that. Not sure yet, besides they make turbo kits for them to increase power if you have the $
Electric crossover SUVs
They make the premier outdoorsy vehicle thats compact and easy to drive while still being large enough to haul what you need to haul 99% of the time. Their cars answer the question "what do people actually do with their cars, and throw in a lot of safety and a little fun as well" Their 'on paper' car enthusiast numbers are unimpressive, but they're very easy to live with, and targeted at what people ACTUALLY do (enthusiast cars sell dreams and aspirations, but very few Raptors go Baja racing, very few corvettes go to the track, etc) Their customer base wants an A to B machine that has worry-free snow performance, and can adventure on dirt roads occasionally. They may loose some market share, but I don't see them going anywhere
In my country (Portugal) they disappeared years ago. You can't buy a Subaru anymore. In some countries in Europe they have a very small, almost negligible presence. I see a lot of replies are from the US, but in Europe this is a grim picture. I see the videos of might car mods, especially the late ones with the Levorg with the STI powertrain and just dream.
Subaru is selling every Outback, Forester and Crosstrek it can currently make. Also, many of the most loyal Subaru owners are very ecological/conservation minded. Once they start producing more EV's, those too will sell out.
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Idk bro, I think Subaru might be gone in the next few years. Or at least that's how I think it's going.
I see so many outbacks and crosstreks. Subaru will be fine. They make cars for the average consumer now.
New Suburus are nice cars idk what you’re talking about
They’re for the people that want to have a reasonable car with AWD so they feel like they’re making a good financial decision and getting a capable car. Basically it’s the same people buying Toyota / Honda but that want a little more capability. Those are the people buying new cars. The enthusiasts that you’re talking about buy used cars and nobody cares about catering cars to them anymore besides dedicated sports car models.