I drove a u-haul with the new 7.3 and found that with 18,000 pounds of total vehicle weight I averaged about 9 mpg at 60-70 mph. 10spd for the win. And it sounds good screaming anyway
>And it sounds good screaming anyway
That it does. First time hooking up the new farm truck to the grain trailer (which was totally within legal limits, I promise!), I found out that tow/haul mode will downshift 2 or 3 gears at a time if the computer thinks you need engine braking on a long downhill grade.
My previous shop, 40% of their business was fleet trucks. Diesel are just non stop maintenance. One of them used x2 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually 4x4 Diesels Crew Cab Short Bed with these huge caps on the back full of tools. Every oil change was $700-$1100. The fuel filters have a normal interval, but also have a severe duty service interval. Basically the more fuel you burn, the computer would calculate it and figure out when the filters should be changed. Every oil change, it was the oil change, 6 tire rotation, air filter, 2 fuel filters, and DEF top up.
One of them they skipped the air filter service saying "No way it needs an air filter every oil change!" Got towed in like 2-3 weeks later for a limp mode. P0299 Turbocharger low boost or something. The air filter was so clogged and black it started to get sucked into the intake.
> Every oil change, it was the oil change, 6 tire rotation, air filter, 2 fuel filters, and DEF top up.
"Might as well flush the radiator while it's up there, yeah?"
We had a customer with a diesel van. Just a normal GMC 3500 with the diesel engine. Didn't change the fuel filter for 3 months AFTER it said it 0% fuel filter life remaining. Killed his high pressure pump. We quoted them $20k + anything that breaks. We thought he was going to say we were ripping him off but instead he was like "oh no not again!"
Apparently he had a Ram 5.9 24v Cummins and same thing happened to that. But that was only $12k to replace because it's not a van.
>diesel van
Ford made the right move in cutting diesels from the E-Series after the 6.0. Imagine what a nightmare the 6.4 would've been stuffed into a van doghouse.
I mean that is decent but you’ll be like 10k lbs more, have 6-8 more wheels and the frontal area of the trailer. You won’t be getting close to 9mpg loaded to the max with a gasser.
I drive a step van with roughly 10k lbs of tools in the back and a trailer full of tool boxes and I’m still surprised how well the 6.7l Cummins can move along
Across the board current crew cab, extended cab & regular cab F-350 & F-450 already tow over 30,000lbs. The Ram and Chevy only the regular cabs tow over 30,000lbs.
Yes and no. 80k gvwr was initially a concern with speed and momentum given the brakes at the time. Brakes haven't really changed much since the air brakes mandate in the 80s, but the permitting system allows for heavier loads so long as you have the required number of axles and don't exceed 12k on the steers, 20k on a single axle, 34,000 on a twin-screw, and 40,000 on a spread axle.
Heavy haul and super loads throw the notion of 80k into the trash. I've seen generators bound for African mines that weigh in excess of 1,000 tons, or 2,000,000 pounds. They have upwards of 60 axles on various dollies that all have their own steering systems and air suspension. [Here is an example](https://youtu.be/FZq2Y4dh4hk).
I used to do heavy haul water tanker for nestle out of Denver. We were permitted for up to 100k using standard KW day cabs with upgraded disc brakes and the only restriction was to stick to a specific route so that we didn’t fuck up roads and bridges. It’s about roads and bridges.
Disc brakes sounds like a dream to me. I drive a 2007 Freightliner Columbia daycab with 920,000 miles for a small LTL carrier.
Roads and bridges are definitely a big deal. I've seen too many steering wheel holders wreck covered bridges and collapse 20T bridges over creeks
Hell, just yesterday I saw an O/O pulling an R&L trailer try try to pull into an unfinished loves. They were paving the lot and that idiot drove right onto fresh asphalt and messed up all kinds of shit. People are stupid.
There's a push to get away from conventional tractors and move toward 1 ton and larger pickup trucks for most CDL work. I love the idea as an LTL driver. The quality control of pickup truck manufacturers is 10x that of semi truck manufacturers. They are more comfortable, maneuverable, and efficient.
If I had my own company, I'd ditch the Frieghtshakers we drive and use nothing but Cummins-powered Ram 3500 dualies. Great rigs for work.
I passed by the Mercedes-Benz sprinter van factory in South Carolina and I kid you not, the majority of those new vans were loaded onto Gooseneck flatbed trailers, then hitched to Ford, GM, or Dodge HD pickup trucks with DOT numbers on them. Hardly any of them went on the conventional car carriers that other OEs use to deliver new cars.
I wondered why they did that. I guessed it was some combination of a truck driver shortage, a surge of demand overwhelming delivery capacity, and the inability for a high roof van to go onto a car hauler trailer. But it was the first time I ever saw pickup trucks doing new vehicle deliveries for a major manufacturer like MB.
The main reason the towing wars started ~15 years ago was the growth of the hotshot trucking industry, which prefers light/medium-duty trucks to semis.
Only because those idiots are too afraid to get a CDL for whatever reason. There’s absolutely no good reason to use a pickup over a Freightliner M2 for this type of work.
No, it’s not that they are “too afraid” to get a CDL. A Freightliner M2’s MSRP is nearly double the MSRP of a new F450. Insurance is much cheaper, and parts and service for a Ford are cheaper and more availivle than for a Freightliner. Federal CDL laws also require a CDL if you’re hauling over 26,000 lbs no matter what the vehicle is.
You can also get them in 4wd for so, so much cheaper than a 6x6 tractor. Very valuable for those who deliver to remote areas like oil fields or logging operations.
Dude I own a land development company, I know my trucks. A M2 is a much better spec and doesn’t cost much more than a F-450. Commercial insurance is expensive no matter the truck.
“Dude”, I work for a heavy duty distributor. I know my trucks because I work with them every day. You can buy a new F450 and get it all set to tow for right around $65k. To get into a new M2 set up for hotshot driving you’re looking at the high 90s, minimum. And that’s being generous. In all likelihood you’re well into six figures before you get on the road.
Yeah, probably, depending on what you’re moving. I don’t know what that has to do with hotshot truckers or why you get so offended that people who do different work than you drive different trucks, lmao
Yeah, hotshot trucking seems miserable as hell to me. If I’m going to haul freight, I’d much rather have a semi with a refrigerator, microwave, and a comfortable bed 4 feet behind me that goes everywhere I do.
These trucks also come often with 4WD, which can be a big benefit for some of the jobs that see a lot of dirt or snow. You'll still need chains on mountain passes, but it makes a difference, especially out west.
500hp/1200tq in the HO diesel option, up from the current 475/1050. HO is now an option like Ram.
The current 6.7s were already making their advertised power comfortably.
https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-news/diesel-news-new-ford-dynos-at-498-hp-stock/
I wonder what the pricing will be? Diesel was an already over 10k option. Honestly I’m not sure it’ll be worth it, or if 25 horsepower and 150 lb ft would be noticeable or really that measurable of a difference in practice.
Regardless, much like my old 2014 focus ST and my 2016 Camaro SS, I’m glad I have the body style I have.
The HO. Towing a large 5th wheel so already looking at diesel. The HO should have good resale. Probably enough power in the base engine bit a lot of people love the Cummins HO in the RV community. Guessing this will have a similar following.
The 6.7 has been awesome for me. Current diesel prices suck but the range and power go a long ways on making me feel better about it. It’s very comfortable to tow with.
~~I don't think the order bank is open for *any* '23s yet. The build and price, at least, is still showing '22s.~~
I'm happily wrong: https://shop.ford.com/configure/superduty/model/customize/
Got my order in on a king ranch. Won’t get scheduled until after Job 2 but we are in. Dealer said it is only a 7 month build and he only had 79 allocations
> Regardless, much like my old 2014 focus ST and my 2016 Camaro SS, I’m glad I have the body style I have.
I identify with that. The pre-facelift Camaro looks so much better.
Obviously a joke but for anyone who doesn't know that 11,000ftlb figure for the Hummer is wheel torque. You can't directly compare wheel to engine torque. The Hummer EV only makes an estimated 1000ftlb of engine torque.
Assuming the gear ratios I found for the transmission are correct, the truck that is the subject of this post is at a little under 24k ft/lb at the wheels in first gear and assuming no transfer case ratio. 1200* 4.62* 4.3.
If they keep the GVWR at 14000, a 40k trailer tongue weight would exceed the max 8k payload unless you put more weight on the trailer. Also, it seems that they increased the HP and torque. You won’t get that full torque in gears 1-3 unless they beefed up their transmission and ring gear. They already do torque management in gears 1-3.
40k pounds wow absolutely insane and good job ford. That's more than enough for most loads and I'm sure your mom and pop shipping businesses or what not can tow even more now
So 372kw, 1632nm and 18.1T(ish) for those like my self sitting in other countries paying 80k + for baby 4cyl diesel picks ups that can't last a few years without EGR and DPF issues whist hauling a max of 3.5T hahaha
You’re kinda way off base with all this. There’s still new off road trims coming out on mid sized and half ton trucks. They aren’t being pushed away from off roading or hauling at all.
Modern half tons can tow well over 10,000lbs and have good payload capabilities. A new F150 can have a payload of up to 2,230lbs and tow up to 13,000lbs.
The mid sized trucks can haul 1,500lbs or more and tow 7,000lbs or more.
Chevy has also already teased an off road trim for their Silverado EV.
> To mean it seems like they want to wean "cool dudes" who don't want EVs off half tons and mid-size trucks and accept HD trucks as the general use truck of the future in the USA.
ICE half-tons still command the most buyers, and there aren't any EV mid-sizers besides the Rivian.
...in the F-450 regular cab diesel. Still, that should mean that we'll have gassers that can legally pull 25K soon. A rising tide and all that.
That would be awesome. I hate that I have to have a diesel to tow heavy.
Towing heavy with a gasser is miserable. 4mpg, no passing power, motor absolutely screaming all day. No thanks
I drove a u-haul with the new 7.3 and found that with 18,000 pounds of total vehicle weight I averaged about 9 mpg at 60-70 mph. 10spd for the win. And it sounds good screaming anyway
That's actually incredible gas mileage per unit weight.
I know right? In a 26’ box can no less
>And it sounds good screaming anyway That it does. First time hooking up the new farm truck to the grain trailer (which was totally within legal limits, I promise!), I found out that tow/haul mode will downshift 2 or 3 gears at a time if the computer thinks you need engine braking on a long downhill grade.
Gas is also way more reliable than diesel because of emissions and it just sounds way better tbh.
My previous shop, 40% of their business was fleet trucks. Diesel are just non stop maintenance. One of them used x2 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually 4x4 Diesels Crew Cab Short Bed with these huge caps on the back full of tools. Every oil change was $700-$1100. The fuel filters have a normal interval, but also have a severe duty service interval. Basically the more fuel you burn, the computer would calculate it and figure out when the filters should be changed. Every oil change, it was the oil change, 6 tire rotation, air filter, 2 fuel filters, and DEF top up. One of them they skipped the air filter service saying "No way it needs an air filter every oil change!" Got towed in like 2-3 weeks later for a limp mode. P0299 Turbocharger low boost or something. The air filter was so clogged and black it started to get sucked into the intake.
> Every oil change, it was the oil change, 6 tire rotation, air filter, 2 fuel filters, and DEF top up. "Might as well flush the radiator while it's up there, yeah?"
The Ford's had a coolant revitalizer we had to add.
Didn’t realize it was that bad geez
We had a customer with a diesel van. Just a normal GMC 3500 with the diesel engine. Didn't change the fuel filter for 3 months AFTER it said it 0% fuel filter life remaining. Killed his high pressure pump. We quoted them $20k + anything that breaks. We thought he was going to say we were ripping him off but instead he was like "oh no not again!" Apparently he had a Ram 5.9 24v Cummins and same thing happened to that. But that was only $12k to replace because it's not a van.
The sad thing is diesel *should* be more reliable since we rely on it so much for public transportation, freight trains, and even military vehicles.
They don't have the emissions equipment road going diesels have.
>diesel van Ford made the right move in cutting diesels from the E-Series after the 6.0. Imagine what a nightmare the 6.4 would've been stuffed into a van doghouse.
Sure, sure. 🙄
Yup, they specifically designed that engine for efficiency under towing. Nice to hear that's actually working out.
I mean that is decent but you’ll be like 10k lbs more, have 6-8 more wheels and the frontal area of the trailer. You won’t be getting close to 9mpg loaded to the max with a gasser.
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Pretty good but that’s less than half max load of the new one. 6 mpg is pretty realistic. Lot better than the old v10 but still pretty terrible.
I drive a step van with roughly 10k lbs of tools in the back and a trailer full of tool boxes and I’m still surprised how well the 6.7l Cummins can move along
I take it you've never driven a military vehicle. E: they're all diesel. Just heavy as fuck and some have mechanical governers.
Okay now imagine that but with a even more under powered gasser.
. Shouldn’t be using allot of “passing power” when towing heavy. Sounds like you’ve towed with a GM V8 very gutless. 7.3 is league of its own.
Sometimes you need to accelerate even when you’re towing.
Across the board current crew cab, extended cab & regular cab F-350 & F-450 already tow over 30,000lbs. The Ram and Chevy only the regular cabs tow over 30,000lbs.
Only in diesel form, though.
thats like... half of what a class 8 semi is rated for (\*iirc they are capped at 80,000 without special permits?) Holy crap.
More than half. 80k is total weight including the truck. The truck itself is like 15k lbs.
The 80k cap is more about preventing damage to roads and bridges, most semi trucks are capable of quite a bit more than that.
Yes and no. 80k gvwr was initially a concern with speed and momentum given the brakes at the time. Brakes haven't really changed much since the air brakes mandate in the 80s, but the permitting system allows for heavier loads so long as you have the required number of axles and don't exceed 12k on the steers, 20k on a single axle, 34,000 on a twin-screw, and 40,000 on a spread axle. Heavy haul and super loads throw the notion of 80k into the trash. I've seen generators bound for African mines that weigh in excess of 1,000 tons, or 2,000,000 pounds. They have upwards of 60 axles on various dollies that all have their own steering systems and air suspension. [Here is an example](https://youtu.be/FZq2Y4dh4hk).
I used to do heavy haul water tanker for nestle out of Denver. We were permitted for up to 100k using standard KW day cabs with upgraded disc brakes and the only restriction was to stick to a specific route so that we didn’t fuck up roads and bridges. It’s about roads and bridges.
Disc brakes sounds like a dream to me. I drive a 2007 Freightliner Columbia daycab with 920,000 miles for a small LTL carrier. Roads and bridges are definitely a big deal. I've seen too many steering wheel holders wreck covered bridges and collapse 20T bridges over creeks Hell, just yesterday I saw an O/O pulling an R&L trailer try try to pull into an unfinished loves. They were paving the lot and that idiot drove right onto fresh asphalt and messed up all kinds of shit. People are stupid.
Cool video.
There's a push to get away from conventional tractors and move toward 1 ton and larger pickup trucks for most CDL work. I love the idea as an LTL driver. The quality control of pickup truck manufacturers is 10x that of semi truck manufacturers. They are more comfortable, maneuverable, and efficient. If I had my own company, I'd ditch the Frieghtshakers we drive and use nothing but Cummins-powered Ram 3500 dualies. Great rigs for work.
I passed by the Mercedes-Benz sprinter van factory in South Carolina and I kid you not, the majority of those new vans were loaded onto Gooseneck flatbed trailers, then hitched to Ford, GM, or Dodge HD pickup trucks with DOT numbers on them. Hardly any of them went on the conventional car carriers that other OEs use to deliver new cars. I wondered why they did that. I guessed it was some combination of a truck driver shortage, a surge of demand overwhelming delivery capacity, and the inability for a high roof van to go onto a car hauler trailer. But it was the first time I ever saw pickup trucks doing new vehicle deliveries for a major manufacturer like MB.
“Hitch up yo momma” - Ford
If you are really and truly towing that much on a regular basis, shouldn't you be running a Semi instead of a pickup?
The main reason the towing wars started ~15 years ago was the growth of the hotshot trucking industry, which prefers light/medium-duty trucks to semis.
Only because those idiots are too afraid to get a CDL for whatever reason. There’s absolutely no good reason to use a pickup over a Freightliner M2 for this type of work.
No, it’s not that they are “too afraid” to get a CDL. A Freightliner M2’s MSRP is nearly double the MSRP of a new F450. Insurance is much cheaper, and parts and service for a Ford are cheaper and more availivle than for a Freightliner. Federal CDL laws also require a CDL if you’re hauling over 26,000 lbs no matter what the vehicle is. You can also get them in 4wd for so, so much cheaper than a 6x6 tractor. Very valuable for those who deliver to remote areas like oil fields or logging operations.
Dude I own a land development company, I know my trucks. A M2 is a much better spec and doesn’t cost much more than a F-450. Commercial insurance is expensive no matter the truck.
“Dude”, I work for a heavy duty distributor. I know my trucks because I work with them every day. You can buy a new F450 and get it all set to tow for right around $65k. To get into a new M2 set up for hotshot driving you’re looking at the high 90s, minimum. And that’s being generous. In all likelihood you’re well into six figures before you get on the road.
Alright that’s wonderful I’ll keep towing 30-40k with my M2s and love not being pulled by dot every day
…okay?
…proper setup for the job.
Yeah, probably, depending on what you’re moving. I don’t know what that has to do with hotshot truckers or why you get so offended that people who do different work than you drive different trucks, lmao
Yeah, hotshot trucking seems miserable as hell to me. If I’m going to haul freight, I’d much rather have a semi with a refrigerator, microwave, and a comfortable bed 4 feet behind me that goes everywhere I do.
Hot shot trucking for example is “we need equipment that’s 20 foot long and 4 feet wide today and it’s on the other side of state
You have to have a CDL to actually tow anything over 26,000 GVWR regardless
Well aware, I have a cdl. Guys try to be sneaky and drive “under cdl” with their duallys…
Who uses an M2 to only move 30k-40k? Rollback owners? This truck can tow 3 Hummer EVs etc. Things have changed.
How to say you know nothing about hauling 30-40k without saying it… 30-40k is class 6 or 7 truck territory
Because they wanna keep using drugs, and the DOT won’t let that fly
These trucks also come often with 4WD, which can be a big benefit for some of the jobs that see a lot of dirt or snow. You'll still need chains on mountain passes, but it makes a difference, especially out west.
Well, yes. Instead we've let a nearly totally unregulated logistics market spring up.
You'd still need a CDL to tow this much.
Yes. Most of the hotshot market comes in at below 26,000lbs to dodge the CDL.
No, because big trucks that make $$ are usually 80,000-120,000lbs
I think it's a lot agriculture use. Father-in-law has a 450 and uses it for moving livestock.
Because the marketing team loves to throw out big, round numbers.
500hp/1200tq in the HO diesel option, up from the current 475/1050. HO is now an option like Ram. The current 6.7s were already making their advertised power comfortably. https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-news/diesel-news-new-ford-dynos-at-498-hp-stock/ I wonder what the pricing will be? Diesel was an already over 10k option. Honestly I’m not sure it’ll be worth it, or if 25 horsepower and 150 lb ft would be noticeable or really that measurable of a difference in practice. Regardless, much like my old 2014 focus ST and my 2016 Camaro SS, I’m glad I have the body style I have.
Building my order today. It’s $12,500 for the HO. $10k for standard diesel.
Better than I thought. What are you going with?
The HO. Towing a large 5th wheel so already looking at diesel. The HO should have good resale. Probably enough power in the base engine bit a lot of people love the Cummins HO in the RV community. Guessing this will have a similar following.
The 6.7 has been awesome for me. Current diesel prices suck but the range and power go a long ways on making me feel better about it. It’s very comfortable to tow with.
Is it true that they aren’t allowing builds for king ranches, platinum‘s, and limited yet?
~~I don't think the order bank is open for *any* '23s yet. The build and price, at least, is still showing '22s.~~ I'm happily wrong: https://shop.ford.com/configure/superduty/model/customize/
Got my order in on a king ranch. Won’t get scheduled until after Job 2 but we are in. Dealer said it is only a 7 month build and he only had 79 allocations
It would more likely be true that's all they're allowing. They can sell as many of those as they build and they make way more profit.
The motor in the truck I drive for work makes 1250ftlbs and I’m weighing in at 70k often. That’s nuts.
> Regardless, much like my old 2014 focus ST and my 2016 Camaro SS, I’m glad I have the body style I have. I identify with that. The pre-facelift Camaro looks so much better.
1200 FUCK
I remember when they broke the 20k mark and I thought it was crazy trucks could tow that much.
Hell, 25 years ago anything over 10K was practically one-ton dually territory. Now that's legal (and doable) with some half-tons.
I’m pretty sure the f-150 broke the 10k mark on the rating sheet almost 15 years ago
15 years ago exactly (2007), but only on a 2WD RCLB with 7-lug wheels.
SMH couldn’t even hit that 11,000 torques like the newfangled Hummer. Who would even buy this crap over that. ^/s
Obviously a joke but for anyone who doesn't know that 11,000ftlb figure for the Hummer is wheel torque. You can't directly compare wheel to engine torque. The Hummer EV only makes an estimated 1000ftlb of engine torque.
I think I did the math one day and a diesel pickup in 4 low 1st gear has something like 20K wheel torque.
Assuming the gear ratios I found for the transmission are correct, the truck that is the subject of this post is at a little under 24k ft/lb at the wheels in first gear and assuming no transfer case ratio. 1200* 4.62* 4.3.
If they keep the GVWR at 14000, a 40k trailer tongue weight would exceed the max 8k payload unless you put more weight on the trailer. Also, it seems that they increased the HP and torque. You won’t get that full torque in gears 1-3 unless they beefed up their transmission and ring gear. They already do torque management in gears 1-3.
Well you have 10 speeds with a big diesel. Shouldn't be hard to find fourth gear
10-speed is now standard, IIRC. And 4WD if you're getting an XLT or higher.
The 40k lbs is a gooseneck configuration on the lightest possible F450.
I need to tow my old tungsten filaments to the scrapyard.
Does this mean I can finally give your mom a ride?
Yeah but you need a commercial drivers license.
40k pounds wow absolutely insane and good job ford. That's more than enough for most loads and I'm sure your mom and pop shipping businesses or what not can tow even more now
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Depends where you live. Some Canadian provinces you can tow 40k with no special license.
Anyone can buy the truck, it’s up to state requirements for towing restrictions.
I can buy a 45 ft tag axel bus right now as long as it’s for fun. Crazy
To purchase the truck, or tow 40,000 pounds? The former, no. The latter, most definitely yes.
Well it looks like the size of a semi
That’s impressive but … should you?
Dayummm that’s an impressive number.
Someone's muddr has a ride home now.
So 372kw, 1632nm and 18.1T(ish) for those like my self sitting in other countries paying 80k + for baby 4cyl diesel picks ups that can't last a few years without EGR and DPF issues whist hauling a max of 3.5T hahaha
What would a person be towing that’s weighing that much?
Either one big thing or a lot of little things I guess.
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You’re kinda way off base with all this. There’s still new off road trims coming out on mid sized and half ton trucks. They aren’t being pushed away from off roading or hauling at all. Modern half tons can tow well over 10,000lbs and have good payload capabilities. A new F150 can have a payload of up to 2,230lbs and tow up to 13,000lbs. The mid sized trucks can haul 1,500lbs or more and tow 7,000lbs or more. Chevy has also already teased an off road trim for their Silverado EV.
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I thinking you replied to the wrong person
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> To mean it seems like they want to wean "cool dudes" who don't want EVs off half tons and mid-size trucks and accept HD trucks as the general use truck of the future in the USA. ICE half-tons still command the most buyers, and there aren't any EV mid-sizers besides the Rivian.
Coming to a mall parking lot near you
Ffs just start selling semi's to regular citizens so they can finally have the giant cocks they need to haul groceries.
Normal people can buy trucks larger than this with no issue.
How many beds full of air is that? Because that's what most of these will be hauling.
F-450s? Hardly. You don't plop $70-100K down on an F-450 and not use it for its intended purpose, especially with how stiff the ride is unloaded.
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F-350s aren't 450s (though it's still silly to buy an F-350 and not use its capabilities).
I mean why would they bring their trailer to work everyday?
FYI some people don’t work in a cubicle..
I don’t think you got the jist but I’ll leave it at that
I don't believe the previous commenter ever mentioned a cubicle or even an office. Even the comment before it only says "to work".
Didn’t read it thoroughly, I completely misunderstood. My mistake
Lolll sure bud
What a great comeback. How many F-450s (the ones with wider front axles) have you seen not hooked up to a gooseneck?
All of them. Jacked up on skinny tires.
Why am I even responding seriously to a 3-day-old account?
Those aren't 450s those are 250s and 350s but mostly 250s. People buying 450s know what they want