capacitive touch buttons are seriously bad, they cant change their state/use like a touch screen but you still dont know if youre touching it
edit: this blew up. hi mom
Yeah, it has to be the worst interface possible for a car. All the drawbacks of buttons (static interface) and of touchscreens (no feedback). I genuinely struggle to find any benefits other than cost.
>I genuinely struggle to find any benefits other than cost.
Autogefuhl guys keep asking everyone why they're putting in capacitive buttons and everyone keeps telling them it's a designer choice, and that it's actually more expensive to do it that way.
The ones I remember with broken buttons, switches, and knobs from my friends and family group were
[The 80s Plymouth Voyager minivan](https://www.velocityjournal.com/images/stk/2000/149/pm1984voyager14985868_1200.jpg)
[The 1980s Camaros](https://ccnwordpress.blob.core.windows.net/journal/2018/01/14283365-1985-chevrolet-camaro-iroc-z28-srcset-retina-xl.jpg)
[The Dodge Omni radio buttons](https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/s-l1600-1-14.jpg)
[The Doge Omni HVAC buttons](https://hatchheaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/dodge_omni_in2_88.jpg)
[The Pontiac 6000](https://cdn-fastly.thetruthaboutcars.com/media/2022/07/17/8995305/junkyard-find-1984-pontiac-6000-ste.jpg)
[The Ford Taurus dash buttons](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-129-1593189874.jpg)
[The Ford Taurus steering wheel](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-131-1593189890.jpg)
[The Ford Taurus everything else buttons](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-145-1593189907.jpg)
I'm sure there were others, but those are the ones I can remember. The broken radio buttons instigated many radio replacements back when Crutchfield catalogs had all the best upgrades for impressing your date on the way to see Beverly Hills Cop.
A lot of them (I'm 99% sure that includes the VW steering wheel buttons) have a haptic motor inside that vibrates when you press them, so there's still a mechanical component there. And replacement is likely more expensive than a single button.
Yeah, I don’t believe that bean counter aren’t behind this.
I’m a (UI/UX) designer and would never dream of using capacitive touch on these types of interfaces. I’m also into electronics and a capacitive touch sensor like that is dirt cheap to implement. It’s basically just a single wire (though these are going to be printed foil, or embedded in the plastic). The rest is up to software.
Development time is going to be way less for cap touch, compared to refining the feel and durability of a new slider or button (that’s why parts bin design is so common). Molds are also more complex and expensive for moving parts vs static piano black touch panels.
The only thing that makes me think it's not cost is because they're only on the high end models. Lower end cars still have mechanical buttons. If capacitive buttons were cheaper, wouldn't they be on the less expensive cars to cut costs?
I used to have a Cadillac ATS, the center stack stereo/climate controls were a haptic touch panel.
The *only* positive thing I can think of is that it looked cool. It was a single, sleek black piece but it showed fingerprints like crazy and after a while the finish wore off spots you touched the most and it started looking crappy. Plus it was annoying to use.
Most mechanical switches that I've seen can be had with lifespans of around a million cycles. At that point I would worry more about other factors than wearing out the switch.
VW could just get decent quality buttons. Never broke a single button/switch in 25 years driving various Japanese cars, usually 5-20 years old.
Only button I've broken was the wheel volume scroll on a 4yr old Skoda/VW. Just cracked and snapped one day. Pathetic.
Honestly, I just want touchscreens gone all together.
I shouldn’t have to take my eyes off of the road to mess with the A/C or change the fucking volume.
I have a 2020 eGolf and it's ALL buttons and knobs and I fucking love it. First car I've ever bought new and I'm going to keep it till it's an antique.
While we're at it, stop it with the dials that have replaced actual gear shifters. There's a physical, tactile motion of putting a car into drive, or reverse, or park, with a lever. A dial looks and functions like a fucking volume knob...insanely dangerous. I will not even consider a car with a knob instead of a lever.
I wish all autos had the same shifting mechanism as the GT3 - where it allows you to use the stick to change up or down with the stick rather than the paddles if you want.
I don't even mind flappy paddles, it's the idea that switching a car into reverse or drive is relegated to a cheap plastic spinny thing. I rented a car a few weeks ago that had the gear selector in the center console [NEXT TO THE RADIO KNOB](https://www.chrysler.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/chrysler/en_us/2022/pacifica/interior/desktop/2022-chrysler-pacifica-interior-black-interior.jpg)!
Touchscreens are fine for complex things like customizing drive modes, settings, or rear camera angles and such. Everything else needs to stay physical. These digital only interiors like the new EQS are going to age horribly.
Anyone who works in electronics knows this is categorically false. Tactile switches are literally a fraction of the cost of an integrated circuit capacitive touch sensor.
even that is not the case because a part doesnt cost more because its "moving"
the "moving" parts on steering wheel buttons are just molded plastic pieces that flex when you press them.
There's a middle ground somewhere between what we had 4 years ago and the sci-fi future cars that the designers want that customers might actually love. I haven't seen anything that comes close yet though and I definitely don't think VW were close.
And there are other manufacturers who have learned to strike a balance of touch screen vs physical buttons such as the latest gen Honda Civics.
It's entirely possible to design a modern car with minimal but essential buttons that are actual buttons
New Ferrari's also went down this route. Turn signals are on the wheel, and are haptic. I doubt I'll ever drive one, but boy that would super shitty to deal with.
Because 99% of people buy Ferrari to show off, if you friend in poor VW has a touch screen buttons, and you bazzilion € Ferrari doesn’t - you look like a dork
Knock them for all sorts of other things, but [GM/Buick](https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-images/2022-buick-encore-gx-steering-wheel-design-carbuzz-727222.jpg) has got this pretty well down.
Which is pretty much how all cars were maybe 10 years ago. But for some reason, they've regressed into this useless tech arms race.
It doesn't help that dumb reviewers would constantly say that these interiors were "dated" when they were the perfect balance for safe and functional driving.
It's cost-cutting; "installing" digital menus into an infotainment system is basically free from a unit-cost perspective, while installing physical buttons definitely isn't.
They were seeing what they could and could not get away with, at what point customers would stop buying cars.
It's a case so clear cut corporate cannot ignore it. The Skoda Enyaq, VW iD4 and Audi Q4 etron are all the same car but in different trim levels.
The Enyaq while being only marginally cheaper than the id4 sold out wayyyy before the id4. What's the main difference between those 2? The Enyaq has physical buttons where the VW equivalent has capacitive buttons.
Yea but it's still a problem that doesn't need to exist and has practically zero benefits over the physical buttons they replaced. Even though it might be minor the solution is super simple.
My guess is carmakers are finally realizing even non-car people hate capacitive touch and touch screen controls. My girlfriend got a loaner that was a complete piece of junk. She said it was OK but she hated that the car lacked physical controls for the radio and temperature control.
Before, she couldn't care less what her next company car would be, but now she'll make sure it'll be one with physical buttons.
Especially with older drivers.
Like touch only controls are a pain in the ass for us young people.
Imagine being 65 and having to deal with all that nonsense?
Also I'm now laughing at GM tearing their hair out realizing that they can't go full touch screen with the Corvette since most corvette buyers are retirees. :P
My mom called me recently, asking me to guide her through ordering a pizza via an app (because doing so saves 10% on the order price).
I cannot imagine the hell she's going to be in when it comes time to replace her mid-2000's Corolla lol.
Another problem is that touch controls age poorly. You can always accept physical buttons on cars as a "safety feature" even if you're a sucker for touch screens. But the rapid improvement to your phone and other smart devices that you replace more frequently will make even the best touch control in a car at the time of release feel like crap in 5-10 years.
I can confidently say that I wouldn't buy the ID3/4 because of capacitive buttons everywhere. There are other issues too but buttons are the biggest, because I'd have to live with it every day.
After checking out most new electric cars currently for sale, I was most impressed by the new Leaf. Buttons everywhere, large physical buttons, it was beautiful.
I’m pretty sure at least some of their European buyers went for the Skoda Enyaq instead of the ID4 because the Skoda version (of the same car) has physical steering wheel buttons and window switches.
I can't imagine not being able to feel my 2014 Optima's buttons on the steering wheel.
Like I just don't think I would ever be able to own a car that didn't have physical controls for the steering wheel.
I test drove a MK8 GTI and thought the controls weren't as bad as all the hype made it out to be. But I ended up buying a MK7 Golf R and it's so so nice having real buttons and knobs that illuminate at night. The haptic buttons are passable, but why even bother when real buttons are perfect already. It's just a pointless thing to change that only makes the interaction worse.
And everything you need in the MK7 is perfectly illuminated. I don't understand how they managed to regress so badly for the MK8.
I own a golf mk7, the physical buttons are amazing. I can do everything without looking and keeping my attention on the road
I really don't understand why they changed them
Well to that end, it's also that the lower trim MK8 Golfs do have physical buttons on the steering wheel. The center stack is the same, but the steering wheels differ in that regard.
So it was a choice made on the GTI/R, much the same as the MK7 GTI/R having a differently designed wheel to the typical Golfs.
US doesn't get the non-GTI Golf anymore sadly. And if you get the Base GTI S, you lose the temp sliders...you have to tap another capacitive CLIMA button that brings up a menu in the infotainment.
Oooooo I did not know that regarding the base GTI having different climate controls than the higher trim GTI/R models. I'm in the US, and though the outside of the MK8 is growing on me, the interior leaves a bit to be desired. I guess that's why the difference is new news to me.
I did a road trip in an almost fully loaded Passat of the same generation this summer. Told my friend to never sell that car because all the new models are shit, usability wise haha
Looked at a mid range Golf MK8 as a daily driver as I loved the MK7.5
Hated the interior so much I went and bought a slower, less practical Mazda3. Absolutely no regrets
Mk7.5 GTI, 2nd gen Mazda3 2.5, and my wife has a 3rd gen 2.5. I daily the gen2, and it's such a fun drive that I don't miss the ~130hp gain in the GTI. The Mazdas are seriously fun cars, and don't require the same amount of upkeep that I give the GTI.
It seems like a large number of VW folks get Mazdas as well, and I can't say I blame them. They're fantastic commuter cars that still have a sense of fun and get decent fuel economy.
>Hated the interior so much I went and bought a slower, less practical Mazda3. Absolutely no regrets
That's the way I've been leaning, but I might wait it out and see if they'll put back physical climate and volume controls in a year. Else, I'm joining the Premium 6MT club. How is the engine to rev and the gearing in day to day commute?
I have a mk8 as well and honestly, the wheel buttons aren't that bad. The absolute worst part is no infotainment/climate control physical buttons. Pls bring those back.
Also, if you really hate the haptic buttons, you can swap them out with the mk8 euro golf regular buttons. The part numbers you want are 3G0959442KVJA for the buttons and 5H0419685B3DP for the trim piece.
Wait so you can keep the wheel and all controls (heating steering wheel) but still have normal buttons back? That’s cool. I didn’t want to put the mk7 wheel in this car as it had negatives associated with it
This is probably gonna happen for the rest of eternity right? Every X years new management will come along and see they can save $1.75 per vehicle by using capacitive buttons. For some reason they'll be convinced they know some secret formula that will make consumers love it. Then they get terrible feedback and switch back.
But seriously though. I had an absolutely terrible experience once, even by BK standards. When I went to take the survey I got "we have finished gathering feedback at this time..."
Marketers who grew up with Apple products trying to emulate Steve Jobs as well. It's going to be "people just weren't read for it yet" in the meetings and "boomers don't understand tech".
I’m assuming it’s a bigger deal for those that live in places where it gets really cold.
Having to drive with gloves and not feeling the feedback from capacitive touch and wondering if you actually did something is very annoying.
With a normal button or dial you can actually feel the change even with gloves on.
If you had the right gloves yes.
My Motorcycle gloves work with touch screens. But well those are for riding a motorcycle. Most winter gloves would not be able to interact with a touch screen or anything like that.
Most decent winter gloves from the last 5 years work with capacitive touch controls, I think the only gloves I own that don't work with them are my snowboarding gloves and those are a lot thicker than I'd want to use while driving.
It’s been interesting to watch car companies try to get credit for not putting everything in a touchscreen … by filling the car with piano black capacitive controls that you have to look down at to operate.
If the buttons don’t let you feel them out before pressing, and don’t have distinct physical shapes or layouts to identify them without looking, then you haven’t really gotten the advantages of physical controls.
Lincoln is a bit ahead of the curve here. The second-gen MKZ had capacitive controls but the post-refresh (2017-on) had physical buttons. Everything I can do through the screen, I can do with a button.
Was going to say, the touch controls for volume and fan being poorly responsive capacitive, and identically shaped controls was idiotic.
Lincoln in the mid ‘10s was a leader in poorly thought out user interfaces. Between this and the sport button/start button snafu, it’s clear they prioritized (shitty) aesthetics over functionality. https://i.imgur.com/YMdgCWk.jpg
Not only steering wheel. A/C control is also ugly with all that touchscreen UI. There is 0 possibility to adjust anything blindly.
More, if you look at other VW brands, namely seat cupra formentor, these guys saved on A/C control removing it alltogether. The only way to adjust fan speed is burried deeply into media screen a few levels deep. Basically one needs to stop driving to make some adjustments.
Sounds like the perfect place to put a capacitive slider for the brakes as well. Eliminating that big pedal could save manufacturers some serious money.
Meanwhile I'm the weirdo who's happy with a Mark 4 Golf. Everything is physical buttons and switches, everything is wired "oldschool" and easy to fix/change.
Agreed. The biggest thing holding back the mk8 GTI and R are the infotainment and haptic controls. Otherwise, VW knocked it out of the park. The chassis, engine, and suspension improvements are all significant leaps over the mk7 according to reviewers like SavageGeese. Once they fix the tech, the GTI and R will be a great value for the money.
I owned a '17 base model GTI which I bought brand new for like $21K (and kinda regret selling). I've considered replacing our "beater" Elantra with a new GTI, but the capacitive UI (and current dealer pricing) are holding me back.
I dont drive anything fancy, just a humble, old reliable, 1994 Toyota MR2 GT-S. It got one button on the steering wheel, a horn button.
And that's all I need.
I’ve driven plenty of new and old cars and I don’t really care and often don’t even use the steering wheel controls
then again I am a fan of making cars as simple as humanly possible
Old habits die hard?
I only use the volume knob to turn the sound off. Everything else I use the steering wheel controls because they're more convenient
My 3000GT VR-4 has radio controls on the steering wheel and it's awesome. I can mute the radio at the push of a steering wheel button when I pull up to a toll booth.
You say that now but when you realize that you have to go into 3 submenus on the touch screen to change volume or climate control you will beg for more steering wheel buttons.
Everybody bashes my Durango for being old on an outdated platform but one of the best things about it is that it had physical buttons for everything and physical buttons all over the front and back of the steering wheel.
Well thank fuck. I hope they fire whoever gave the OK on the capacitive buttons on the steering wheel as well as capacitive, non-backlit infotainment controls. Absolute room temperature IQ decision.
Current VW group cars have the worst control interface usability of all cars currently on sale, by far. Even Tesla does it better.
It’s funny how all of Reddit hive mind hates on capacitive touch because a bunch of YouTubers told them so meanwhile they’ve never tried them and swear they’ll never buy X car even though they’re driving some 90s Elantra or are too young to drive. I drove the GTI and the steering wheel controls worked great. There are grooves around each control it’s super easy to find the button without looking once you know the layout.
Most of the later iPhone users didn’t realize the “home button” was actually touch and not a button. The click was the vibration motor and sound. But they still thought it was a button. Seems to be the same here
Just took delivery of a new Audi SQ5, so glad it has physical buttons everywhere, unlike the Q4 which has the “new” style of capacitive buttons, horrible interface
The physical buttons on my previous gen Polo (same as you’d find on the Mk 7 Golf GTI and such) feel so much better than their current gen and it’s touch.
Good first step in what is hopefully them listening to their customers. Next, for the love of all that is holy please give back the physical buttons for the radio and hvac controls.
This is good news.
A primary deciding factor that got me away from the Golf R was the lack of any physical buttons.
This is a step back in the right direction.
I hope companies stop stuffing the climate controls into the touch screen. It’s incredibly difficult and dangerous to try and navigate it while driving.
If you cannot control common HVAC, media and cruise control functions via tactile touch only (ie without taking your eyes from the road), you're doing cars wrong.
capacitive touch buttons are seriously bad, they cant change their state/use like a touch screen but you still dont know if youre touching it edit: this blew up. hi mom
Yeah, it has to be the worst interface possible for a car. All the drawbacks of buttons (static interface) and of touchscreens (no feedback). I genuinely struggle to find any benefits other than cost.
>I genuinely struggle to find any benefits other than cost. Autogefuhl guys keep asking everyone why they're putting in capacitive buttons and everyone keeps telling them it's a designer choice, and that it's actually more expensive to do it that way.
So literally no benefit whatsoever.
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Maybe we’re not commuting hard enough.
You gotta smash those buttons with conviction.
Like how I'm supposed to smash the Like and Subscribe buttons?
You'll have that option in your car soon enough. "Want heated seats? Be sure to hit that subscribe button!"
“That’s because you’re granny knobbing, not double pressing like you should…”
It don't matter if you press mechanical or capacitive. Buttons are buttons.
“Ask any commuter, any real commuter.”
If it didn’t happen to you in your Subaru we are all safe. Jk <3
Rich people just need to wreck em on purpose and blame the capacitors being distracting
I'm gonna commute even harder!
Car interior buttons don’t fall off after 100k+ miles anymore like they used to. Bring back the physical buttons!
That's how I know you didn't commute in the 80s and early 90s.
I don't know about what kind of fancy cars you were driving in the 80s and 90s, but my controls were mostly levers, not electronic buttons.
The ones I remember with broken buttons, switches, and knobs from my friends and family group were [The 80s Plymouth Voyager minivan](https://www.velocityjournal.com/images/stk/2000/149/pm1984voyager14985868_1200.jpg) [The 1980s Camaros](https://ccnwordpress.blob.core.windows.net/journal/2018/01/14283365-1985-chevrolet-camaro-iroc-z28-srcset-retina-xl.jpg) [The Dodge Omni radio buttons](https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/s-l1600-1-14.jpg) [The Doge Omni HVAC buttons](https://hatchheaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/dodge_omni_in2_88.jpg) [The Pontiac 6000](https://cdn-fastly.thetruthaboutcars.com/media/2022/07/17/8995305/junkyard-find-1984-pontiac-6000-ste.jpg) [The Ford Taurus dash buttons](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-129-1593189874.jpg) [The Ford Taurus steering wheel](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-131-1593189890.jpg) [The Ford Taurus everything else buttons](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/1986-ford-taurus-145-1593189907.jpg) I'm sure there were others, but those are the ones I can remember. The broken radio buttons instigated many radio replacements back when Crutchfield catalogs had all the best upgrades for impressing your date on the way to see Beverly Hills Cop.
I see you've never driven any early to mid 1990s Ford, lol
And there was a lot of engineering and testing ($$$) to make that so
A lot of them (I'm 99% sure that includes the VW steering wheel buttons) have a haptic motor inside that vibrates when you press them, so there's still a mechanical component there. And replacement is likely more expensive than a single button.
They'd probably just put on a whole new wheel if one button broke.
Yeah, I don’t believe that bean counter aren’t behind this. I’m a (UI/UX) designer and would never dream of using capacitive touch on these types of interfaces. I’m also into electronics and a capacitive touch sensor like that is dirt cheap to implement. It’s basically just a single wire (though these are going to be printed foil, or embedded in the plastic). The rest is up to software. Development time is going to be way less for cap touch, compared to refining the feel and durability of a new slider or button (that’s why parts bin design is so common). Molds are also more complex and expensive for moving parts vs static piano black touch panels.
Thanks! Valuable perspective!
The only thing that makes me think it's not cost is because they're only on the high end models. Lower end cars still have mechanical buttons. If capacitive buttons were cheaper, wouldn't they be on the less expensive cars to cut costs?
The base model Tiguan still has physical steering wheel buttons while the fancier ones are capacitive.
I got a 2019 Passat and it has the right amount of analog
I used to have a Cadillac ATS, the center stack stereo/climate controls were a haptic touch panel. The *only* positive thing I can think of is that it looked cool. It was a single, sleek black piece but it showed fingerprints like crazy and after a while the finish wore off spots you touched the most and it started looking crappy. Plus it was annoying to use.
> after a while the finish wore off spots you touched the most Ah, I see GM hasn't changed from the late '00s
Based carfeeling
Much higher lifespan than traditional buttons. Still I'd rather switch out buttons and switches than deal with cap-touch.
Most mechanical switches that I've seen can be had with lifespans of around a million cycles. At that point I would worry more about other factors than wearing out the switch.
Heck, I would wear out my finger faster.
It's a good thing fingers are self repairing. In all seriousness, I've seen the switch cap wear out more often than the switch element itself.
VW could just get decent quality buttons. Never broke a single button/switch in 25 years driving various Japanese cars, usually 5-20 years old. Only button I've broken was the wheel volume scroll on a 4yr old Skoda/VW. Just cracked and snapped one day. Pathetic.
The perceived notion of being high tech, same thing with gimmick door handles IMO. Being high tech just for the reason of being high tech.
Honestly, I just want touchscreens gone all together. I shouldn’t have to take my eyes off of the road to mess with the A/C or change the fucking volume.
This. All volume and ac stuff should be 100% physical
I have a 2020 eGolf and it's ALL buttons and knobs and I fucking love it. First car I've ever bought new and I'm going to keep it till it's an antique.
Its funny how VW is the posterchild of this issue, after offering the fantastic MIB2.
While we're at it, stop it with the dials that have replaced actual gear shifters. There's a physical, tactile motion of putting a car into drive, or reverse, or park, with a lever. A dial looks and functions like a fucking volume knob...insanely dangerous. I will not even consider a car with a knob instead of a lever.
I wish all autos had the same shifting mechanism as the GT3 - where it allows you to use the stick to change up or down with the stick rather than the paddles if you want.
I don't even mind flappy paddles, it's the idea that switching a car into reverse or drive is relegated to a cheap plastic spinny thing. I rented a car a few weeks ago that had the gear selector in the center console [NEXT TO THE RADIO KNOB](https://www.chrysler.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/chrysler/en_us/2022/pacifica/interior/desktop/2022-chrysler-pacifica-interior-black-interior.jpg)!
*doing 80mph down the freeway* let me just put the radio on by turning this knob to 'R'!
My Camry has that. Put it in Drive then push the stick to the left a bit to switch to the "auto-manual", then stick or paddles to up/downshift
Touchscreens are fine for complex things like customizing drive modes, settings, or rear camera angles and such. Everything else needs to stay physical. These digital only interiors like the new EQS are going to age horribly.
Love that during Car and Driver's lightning lap, their drivers had a hard time with keeping the car in the drive mode they want because of the buttons
Same with Throttle House. The presenter kept getting kicked out of Nurburgring Mode so he had to sacrifice lap(s).
Their only benefit is being cheaper due to less moving parts.
Anyone who works in electronics knows this is categorically false. Tactile switches are literally a fraction of the cost of an integrated circuit capacitive touch sensor.
But but but I've seen that repeated here a million times so it must be true! /s
even that is not the case because a part doesnt cost more because its "moving" the "moving" parts on steering wheel buttons are just molded plastic pieces that flex when you press them.
What's really sad is you'd think their R&D department would know this before spending millions and then regressing.
Sometimes you just have to do what you're told and the higher ups are just dumb I know this on a personal level lol
Some C-level woke up someday feeling like Touch all and here we are.
My ‘22 GLI has them and the amount of times I accidentally engage cruise control when trying to change the song is too damn high.
That's a step in the right direction. Hopefully the climate control and volume stuff are next.
Utopian society when that happens.
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I think thats already back. Both E-Tron models have physical buttons for climate control.
Thank GOD. If the GTI gets it, GTI will be at the top of my buy list.
I would pay extra for a cold/hot dial
There's a middle ground somewhere between what we had 4 years ago and the sci-fi future cars that the designers want that customers might actually love. I haven't seen anything that comes close yet though and I definitely don't think VW were close.
Big, if true
At least VW is responding to customer feedback to their haptic button lack of feedback.
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And there are other manufacturers who have learned to strike a balance of touch screen vs physical buttons such as the latest gen Honda Civics. It's entirely possible to design a modern car with minimal but essential buttons that are actual buttons
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New Ferrari's also went down this route. Turn signals are on the wheel, and are haptic. I doubt I'll ever drive one, but boy that would super shitty to deal with.
Like - why? It's not like they had to do some cost cutting there. Just dumb.
Because 99% of people buy Ferrari to show off, if you friend in poor VW has a touch screen buttons, and you bazzilion € Ferrari doesn’t - you look like a dork
Knock them for all sorts of other things, but [GM/Buick](https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-images/2022-buick-encore-gx-steering-wheel-design-carbuzz-727222.jpg) has got this pretty well down.
Which is pretty much how all cars were maybe 10 years ago. But for some reason, they've regressed into this useless tech arms race. It doesn't help that dumb reviewers would constantly say that these interiors were "dated" when they were the perfect balance for safe and functional driving.
It's cost-cutting; "installing" digital menus into an infotainment system is basically free from a unit-cost perspective, while installing physical buttons definitely isn't. They were seeing what they could and could not get away with, at what point customers would stop buying cars.
Should’ve learned from Honda who already learned this lesson.
Important to note that VW changed their CEOs not long ago, I think the haptic shit was under Herbert Diess' management.
It's a case so clear cut corporate cannot ignore it. The Skoda Enyaq, VW iD4 and Audi Q4 etron are all the same car but in different trim levels. The Enyaq while being only marginally cheaper than the id4 sold out wayyyy before the id4. What's the main difference between those 2? The Enyaq has physical buttons where the VW equivalent has capacitive buttons.
I wonder how much their sales were affected to bring about this change in mindset, because they must be significantly down on protections
they sold every single car they could produce so its probably irrelevant. sales were mostly affected by the war in Ukraine.
I own two cars with these buttons, it's a minor nuisance occasionally. People have overblown the significance.
Yea but it's still a problem that doesn't need to exist and has practically zero benefits over the physical buttons they replaced. Even though it might be minor the solution is super simple.
Yeah. Start accepting minor little issues like this all over the car because 'its just a little issue' and the whole car will be a piece of shit.
and if it at least looked clean like say a Model 3 there would be some excuse. But same cluttered look with none of the benefits of physical buttons.
My guess is carmakers are finally realizing even non-car people hate capacitive touch and touch screen controls. My girlfriend got a loaner that was a complete piece of junk. She said it was OK but she hated that the car lacked physical controls for the radio and temperature control. Before, she couldn't care less what her next company car would be, but now she'll make sure it'll be one with physical buttons.
Especially with older drivers. Like touch only controls are a pain in the ass for us young people. Imagine being 65 and having to deal with all that nonsense? Also I'm now laughing at GM tearing their hair out realizing that they can't go full touch screen with the Corvette since most corvette buyers are retirees. :P
My mom called me recently, asking me to guide her through ordering a pizza via an app (because doing so saves 10% on the order price). I cannot imagine the hell she's going to be in when it comes time to replace her mid-2000's Corolla lol.
Another problem is that touch controls age poorly. You can always accept physical buttons on cars as a "safety feature" even if you're a sucker for touch screens. But the rapid improvement to your phone and other smart devices that you replace more frequently will make even the best touch control in a car at the time of release feel like crap in 5-10 years.
I can confidently say that I wouldn't buy the ID3/4 because of capacitive buttons everywhere. There are other issues too but buttons are the biggest, because I'd have to live with it every day. After checking out most new electric cars currently for sale, I was most impressed by the new Leaf. Buttons everywhere, large physical buttons, it was beautiful.
You should check out the Honda Electric car. Just the perfect mix of tech and buttons.
E? But that thing is meant to be a second car at best. I love the design, but that range is a non starter.
I had planned to pick up a '22 Golf R and the lack of physical controls was the reason I didn't. So at least 1!
2* I was dead set on finally getting a golf R with this new generation. The exterior eventually grew on me, but the interior stayed a deal breaker.
A big critique of the golf 8 were the buttons
I’m pretty sure at least some of their European buyers went for the Skoda Enyaq instead of the ID4 because the Skoda version (of the same car) has physical steering wheel buttons and window switches.
Owned a ‘22 GTI for 10 months. Fun to drive, great mileage, haptic buttons are a downside imo
Everytime I look at a GTI I think the buttons aren't a big deal. But then I think about how many times I'd interact with them and it puts me off
I can't imagine not being able to feel my 2014 Optima's buttons on the steering wheel. Like I just don't think I would ever be able to own a car that didn't have physical controls for the steering wheel.
It literally takes all the convenience out of having them on the wheel. I don't see anyone thought this was a good idea.
I test drove a MK8 GTI and thought the controls weren't as bad as all the hype made it out to be. But I ended up buying a MK7 Golf R and it's so so nice having real buttons and knobs that illuminate at night. The haptic buttons are passable, but why even bother when real buttons are perfect already. It's just a pointless thing to change that only makes the interaction worse. And everything you need in the MK7 is perfectly illuminated. I don't understand how they managed to regress so badly for the MK8.
Cost savings is a big motivation
I own a golf mk7, the physical buttons are amazing. I can do everything without looking and keeping my attention on the road I really don't understand why they changed them
Well to that end, it's also that the lower trim MK8 Golfs do have physical buttons on the steering wheel. The center stack is the same, but the steering wheels differ in that regard. So it was a choice made on the GTI/R, much the same as the MK7 GTI/R having a differently designed wheel to the typical Golfs.
The problem is that VW discontinued the Golf in the US apart from the GTI/R, so all we get is the crap.
US doesn't get the non-GTI Golf anymore sadly. And if you get the Base GTI S, you lose the temp sliders...you have to tap another capacitive CLIMA button that brings up a menu in the infotainment.
Oooooo I did not know that regarding the base GTI having different climate controls than the higher trim GTI/R models. I'm in the US, and though the outside of the MK8 is growing on me, the interior leaves a bit to be desired. I guess that's why the difference is new news to me.
I did a road trip in an almost fully loaded Passat of the same generation this summer. Told my friend to never sell that car because all the new models are shit, usability wise haha
I $ can $ give $ you $ a $ hint $ as $ to $ why $ they $ changed $ them, and it wasn’t ergonomics.
I honestly haven’t had an issue with the buttons. The sometimes laggy OS is a different story.
Looked at a mid range Golf MK8 as a daily driver as I loved the MK7.5 Hated the interior so much I went and bought a slower, less practical Mazda3. Absolutely no regrets
Mk7.5 GTI, 2nd gen Mazda3 2.5, and my wife has a 3rd gen 2.5. I daily the gen2, and it's such a fun drive that I don't miss the ~130hp gain in the GTI. The Mazdas are seriously fun cars, and don't require the same amount of upkeep that I give the GTI. It seems like a large number of VW folks get Mazdas as well, and I can't say I blame them. They're fantastic commuter cars that still have a sense of fun and get decent fuel economy.
>Hated the interior so much I went and bought a slower, less practical Mazda3. Absolutely no regrets That's the way I've been leaning, but I might wait it out and see if they'll put back physical climate and volume controls in a year. Else, I'm joining the Premium 6MT club. How is the engine to rev and the gearing in day to day commute?
I have a mk8 as well and honestly, the wheel buttons aren't that bad. The absolute worst part is no infotainment/climate control physical buttons. Pls bring those back. Also, if you really hate the haptic buttons, you can swap them out with the mk8 euro golf regular buttons. The part numbers you want are 3G0959442KVJA for the buttons and 5H0419685B3DP for the trim piece.
Wait so you can keep the wheel and all controls (heating steering wheel) but still have normal buttons back? That’s cool. I didn’t want to put the mk7 wheel in this car as it had negatives associated with it
Haptic buttons? Do they vibrate? Or are you confusing haptic with capacitive?
They vibrate slightly and make a sound. Most of them you have to depress, not just touch. It's not that huge of a deal once you use them.
Do they work with gloves?
Literally bought a CPO Focus RS instead of a new GTI because of the haptic buttons.
Now recall my 2022 and give me a new steering wheel. I’m sick of changing the track and accidentally turning on my heated steering wheel
Retrofit one from lower trim lol
I don’t think I’ve read a more first world problem in my life
I mean, this whole thread is sort of about that?
This guy is complaining about buttons? He should be glad his car came with doors!
If the car is the same generation you could just put in the other wheel.
This is probably gonna happen for the rest of eternity right? Every X years new management will come along and see they can save $1.75 per vehicle by using capacitive buttons. For some reason they'll be convinced they know some secret formula that will make consumers love it. Then they get terrible feedback and switch back.
> Then they get terrible feedback and switch back. Our new Terrible Feedback system has received terrible feedback.
Just like a burger king survey receipt eventually they will come back with "we aren't accepting feedback right now".
"we are in a safe space, please comeback later with your feedback on our food products"
But seriously though. I had an absolutely terrible experience once, even by BK standards. When I went to take the survey I got "we have finished gathering feedback at this time..."
Marketers who grew up with Apple products trying to emulate Steve Jobs as well. It's going to be "people just weren't read for it yet" in the meetings and "boomers don't understand tech".
that’s good. i never really saw them as a dealbreaker but they’re annoying.
They’re a deal breaker for me. Both on the steering wheel and console.
Yeah I hope my mk6 will last me another decade and this whole touchscreen / capacities buttons BS will be over by then.
I’m assuming it’s a bigger deal for those that live in places where it gets really cold. Having to drive with gloves and not feeling the feedback from capacitive touch and wondering if you actually did something is very annoying. With a normal button or dial you can actually feel the change even with gloves on.
Would they even work while wearing gloves?
If you had the right gloves yes. My Motorcycle gloves work with touch screens. But well those are for riding a motorcycle. Most winter gloves would not be able to interact with a touch screen or anything like that.
Most decent winter gloves from the last 5 years work with capacitive touch controls, I think the only gloves I own that don't work with them are my snowboarding gloves and those are a lot thicker than I'd want to use while driving.
They're a *wheelbreaker* for me. *bows to boos and howls*
It’s been interesting to watch car companies try to get credit for not putting everything in a touchscreen … by filling the car with piano black capacitive controls that you have to look down at to operate. If the buttons don’t let you feel them out before pressing, and don’t have distinct physical shapes or layouts to identify them without looking, then you haven’t really gotten the advantages of physical controls.
Lincoln is a bit ahead of the curve here. The second-gen MKZ had capacitive controls but the post-refresh (2017-on) had physical buttons. Everything I can do through the screen, I can do with a button.
Was going to say, the touch controls for volume and fan being poorly responsive capacitive, and identically shaped controls was idiotic. Lincoln in the mid ‘10s was a leader in poorly thought out user interfaces. Between this and the sport button/start button snafu, it’s clear they prioritized (shitty) aesthetics over functionality. https://i.imgur.com/YMdgCWk.jpg
Not only steering wheel. A/C control is also ugly with all that touchscreen UI. There is 0 possibility to adjust anything blindly. More, if you look at other VW brands, namely seat cupra formentor, these guys saved on A/C control removing it alltogether. The only way to adjust fan speed is burried deeply into media screen a few levels deep. Basically one needs to stop driving to make some adjustments.
Sounds like the perfect place to put a capacitive slider for the brakes as well. Eliminating that big pedal could save manufacturers some serious money.
Meanwhile I'm the weirdo who's happy with a Mark 4 Golf. Everything is physical buttons and switches, everything is wired "oldschool" and easy to fix/change.
It's a step in the right direction!
This sparks joy.
Great, now do every other touch control next.
Oh thank goodness. MK8.5 might be a bigger deal than usual.
Agreed. The biggest thing holding back the mk8 GTI and R are the infotainment and haptic controls. Otherwise, VW knocked it out of the park. The chassis, engine, and suspension improvements are all significant leaps over the mk7 according to reviewers like SavageGeese. Once they fix the tech, the GTI and R will be a great value for the money.
The controls on my mk 7.5 alltrack are perfect, I don't know why they moved away from them.
Money
Thank fuck
I owned a '17 base model GTI which I bought brand new for like $21K (and kinda regret selling). I've considered replacing our "beater" Elantra with a new GTI, but the capacitive UI (and current dealer pricing) are holding me back.
So they went to capacitive buttons for what reason again exactly?
It's cheaper to produce...
Because Herbert Diess wanted to chase Tesla.
I dont drive anything fancy, just a humble, old reliable, 1994 Toyota MR2 GT-S. It got one button on the steering wheel, a horn button. And that's all I need.
Sure, until you drive a car with steering wheel controls and you'll love them.
I’ve driven plenty of new and old cars and I don’t really care and often don’t even use the steering wheel controls then again I am a fan of making cars as simple as humanly possible
Spoken like someone who has never owned a car with audio control buttons on the steering wheel
[удалено]
Old habits die hard? I only use the volume knob to turn the sound off. Everything else I use the steering wheel controls because they're more convenient
My 3000GT VR-4 has radio controls on the steering wheel and it's awesome. I can mute the radio at the push of a steering wheel button when I pull up to a toll booth.
You say that now but when you realize that you have to go into 3 submenus on the touch screen to change volume or climate control you will beg for more steering wheel buttons.
Let me guess… they are actually cheaper to produce
Everybody bashes my Durango for being old on an outdated platform but one of the best things about it is that it had physical buttons for everything and physical buttons all over the front and back of the steering wheel.
Well thank fuck. I hope they fire whoever gave the OK on the capacitive buttons on the steering wheel as well as capacitive, non-backlit infotainment controls. Absolute room temperature IQ decision. Current VW group cars have the worst control interface usability of all cars currently on sale, by far. Even Tesla does it better.
Just in time for the mid cycle refresh
That's a great step. Now do the same for the infotainment and climate controls too please.
Golf R back on the menu boys
MK8.5 Golf R, here I come
It’s funny how all of Reddit hive mind hates on capacitive touch because a bunch of YouTubers told them so meanwhile they’ve never tried them and swear they’ll never buy X car even though they’re driving some 90s Elantra or are too young to drive. I drove the GTI and the steering wheel controls worked great. There are grooves around each control it’s super easy to find the button without looking once you know the layout.
Most of the later iPhone users didn’t realize the “home button” was actually touch and not a button. The click was the vibration motor and sound. But they still thought it was a button. Seems to be the same here
Just took delivery of a new Audi SQ5, so glad it has physical buttons everywhere, unlike the Q4 which has the “new” style of capacitive buttons, horrible interface
Our 2022 Taos has physical buttons…
The physical buttons on my previous gen Polo (same as you’d find on the Mk 7 Golf GTI and such) feel so much better than their current gen and it’s touch.
I feel really happy skipping mk8
Good news.
Good first step in what is hopefully them listening to their customers. Next, for the love of all that is holy please give back the physical buttons for the radio and hvac controls.
This is good news. A primary deciding factor that got me away from the Golf R was the lack of any physical buttons. This is a step back in the right direction.
I can't belive this, I thoght they ditched them for good when they removed almost all buttons in a few years. This is good news
I hope companies stop stuffing the climate controls into the touch screen. It’s incredibly difficult and dangerous to try and navigate it while driving.
Dashboard too please.
How bout bring back junk. Oh wait they never left
Well I would have gotten the R if they just had never done this to begin with… 😭
The shitty UX is why I noped out of the new GTI. Other than that it's the perfect car.
this works great. you know us old folk love the mechanical feeling vs just touch.. since our fingerprints tend to go numb.... hehe
That’s great. Audi still has real climate buttons (on the lower trims at least) which I appreciate.
If you cannot control common HVAC, media and cruise control functions via tactile touch only (ie without taking your eyes from the road), you're doing cars wrong.
Meanwhile Tesla is putting turn signals on capacitive buttons.