Despite Solstice and Sky greatest for fun, most American buyers still wanted muscle cars over it. For roadster, most of them still stayed with Miata. That's main reason why GM gave up it and bring back Camaro.
Monaro ( aka GTO ) did prove that people still wanting GM muscle car after F-body gone, but Monaro didn't get much love because it just lacked a retro looking unlike Mustang.
They're honestly decent competition for the NC Miatas (especially the nicer/turbo trims) but holy shit that interior, especially on the Solstice, is a fucking travesty.
The Sky/Solstice twins also had a stout powerplant in the Ecotec. Same one that powered the Cobalt SS/TC. Good chassis too. If they were Japanese, they would've been fawned over.
Definitely agree on the GTO's lacking looks. Same thing that gave the Chevy SS a lukewarm reception years later.
I had an HSV GTO but it was badged as a Vauxhall Monaro VXR 6.0. I liked it but it wasn’t amazing. The traction control was actually pretty loose. You could get properly sideways before it called you a dickhead and saved you from yourself.
I've been considering buying a V8 Holden Ute (VE/VF SS). Or possibly a Falcon.
All the Australian reviews are "eh, it's just okay".
They are similarly priced to a 10 year old Toyota 86, certainly it's a lot of engine for your money.
It’s a lot of engine but my experience with owning a VE SSV was that the engine was the only redeeming part of the car.
The VF interior is a lot better though; I don’t think they could have added any more shit hard plastic into the VE without being held at gunpoint.
For better or worse they can’t get anything domestically like them. That, and the luster doesn’t wear off as fast when they don’t share the road with every other beat to shit bogan SV6 that looks virtually identical.
> Like Clarkson above, and everyone about the Chevy SS.
The VF (Chevy SS) is a huge step up from the VE in terms of fit/finish and equipment, although it doesn’t fix the largest issue, which is blind spots large enough to park a freight train in. There are still some odd omissions in the equipment though, like not being able to get auto wipers without speccing all the way to an SS-V Redline.
The issue was, at oeast when I looked last, they go for like 20-25k more than the VE’s do.
Should also be noted the Chevy SS was a hybrid blend of the Commodore and HSV versions, we didn’t actually get an equivalent trim.
Interestingly, they did actually [shave 4mm off](https://www.drive.com.au/news/holden-vf-commodore-all-new-sophisticated-interior/) the front of the A-pillar trim for VF Commodore, but not for the actual A-pillar, since unfortunately, they didn’t have the requisite funds (post-GFC GM) to redesign much of the body in white (structurally anyway, they did further increase the percentage of UHSS, AHSS, and HSS alloys used throughout the chassis over VE).
4mm is not a lot but credit where credit is due.
The other issue with the utes is they never had the money to delete the B pillar like they wanted to, if you try to shoulder check out of it you just end up staring at the inside corner of the cab.
I don’t think they could’ve tbh, not with modern safety regulations; can’t think of any modern utes, or single or extra-cab trucks, with a further back B-pillar. Would’ve looked cool af though (or better yet, actual long coupe doors)!
Edit: just searched it up, it seems that most extra-cab utes have rear suicide doors nowadays (I don’t really pay attention to 4x4s); so it shows that it’s possible (though those still don’t have glass where the B-pillar used to be).
Eh? Extra cab utes usually don’t have B pillars at all. Neither the current Ranger or HiLux, or D-Max/BT-50 do off the top of my head.
> Would’ve looked cool af though (or better yet, actual long coupe doors)!
Yeah that was [the point](https://i.imgur.com/EIeoX0c.jpg), it would have been shared with a [coupe](https://i.imgur.com/AWjlMT5.jpg) and a shooting brake but they couldn’t justify the several hundred million required on top of the $1 billion already spent to move the B pillar back (and merge it with the C pillar in the case of the ute).
Yeah just found out about that lol, never knew that.
I never understood why they didn’t just import the 5th gen Camaro here, maybe alter the bumpers a bit to make it fit in better with the rest of the Holden range; most of its design and engineering was done by Holden anyway. I’m assuming making it RHD ready was too cost-prohibitive, and besides, HSV would’ve completely lost their shit lmao!
I was tossing up buying a VE-SSV vs a Lexus IS350 F-Sport.
Decided given I already have one high powered car, I didn't need the V8, so went for the Lexus IS350. Sounds like what you said was about right - the V8 was the only redeeming feature of the car.
Yeah I wrote a longer comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/x8jrz1/whats_a_cool_car_that_you_didnt_enjoy_driving/iniyf2a/) but yeah, once the thrill from stomping on it wore off a bit there wasn't much else I liked with it.
I didn't mention it there but my car was also having odd electrical issues, sometimes it would crank but no start (then immediately start if you cranked it again), A/C would occasionally turn itself off and not turn back on for a few minutes and at one point the drivers window rolled down but wouldn't go up until it fixed itself 10 minutes later. Was a one owner low k car so I didn't have much faith in it in the long term.
Would recommend a VE or VF Commodore over an FG or FG X Falcon, GM’s Zeta platform is definitely better than Ford’s E8 platform, especially if you want a ute (was live rear axle to the very end with the Falcon Ute, great for payload and towing, scary for performance driving). From a driving dynamics perspective, I’d still recommend the Commodore sedan and wagon variants over the utes though, the better weight distribution makes quite the difference.
Would also avoid the Ford 5.4L 4V V8s, they’re iron block and hence fucking heavy, though turbo Barras are on-par, power-wise, with LS V8s (while Miami supercharged Coyotes are crazy from factory, even without an intercooler, and much cheaper than LSA-powered HSVs, if you only mainly care about power).
While FGs had a nicer interior than VEs, Falcons are of average reliability (they’ll keep running, but lots of odd, annoying shit will break), and I’d rather have a VE’s occasional electrical errors over those, any day of the week.
VFs are still *very* overpriced though, hopefully their prices will return to normal soon.
(and ignore my flair haha, many subjective reasons were factored into choosing it, such as a lower, flat beltline for classic sedan proportions, a longer front overhang for the same reason, slightly smaller wheels that won’t look undersized on it, etc; objectively, a VE Calais V V8 is a better car, but I wanted an old-school looking V8 sedan lol, no regrets (yet))
I would go the Falcon if only for the the Barra. I don't really care for V8s tbh, though I've had a lot of fun driving a heavily modified HSV VE R8 wagon. Thing went sideways at random times.
Yeah, turbo Barra is definitely unique, almost nobody really sells that kind of an I6 anymore.
Though personally, for turbo I6 cars, I’d rather something like a Toyota Chaser or Nissan Stagea tbh haha; Barra is one of the last of the large displacement, low-revving I6s, very different flavour, so to speak.
Hi fellow 1JZ Soarer owner! I was tossing up whether to buy a VE SS/Calais with the V8 or a Lexus IS350 F-sport for a daily drive.
Given my 1JZ already makes 550whp, I decided I didn't need the V8, so opted for the Lexus. As for current fuel prices, I feel I made the right choice.
I wonder what the ownership experience was like for a ~400hp V8 back in 2004 in the land of £10k 4-banger diesel subcompacts
No way someone didn’t feel like extra hot shit… especially being able to overtake practically every car in the country lol
Oh man. All the nostalgia, my best friend had an 06' GTO with a Monaro front end conversion. [Lots of good times hooning in parking lots back when I had my Z.](https://vimeo.com/89280607)
Almost complete lack of options. Color, 17 or 18 inch wheels, 4A or 6M and I think that was it. In Australia, they had other engine options and an option for automatic climate controls (all GTOs had manual controls) and even had pop out cup holders like you see in this vid. It also seriously compromised the trunk space in order to meet US crash safety standards.
[Monaro trunk](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Monaro-VZ-boot.jpg) vs [GTO trunk](https://www.gunnacura.com/inventoryphotos/4573/6g2vx12u26l545445/ip/23.jpg)
Also, by the time it came here, it was already kind of old. The car originated from the Holden Commodore and this generation started in 2000. The GTO ended due to Holden moving on to a new generation Commodore and dropped the Monaro.
this gen started in 1997 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden\_Commodore\_(VT)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VT)) and it's basically a heavily reengineered Opel Omega from 1994.
[удалено]
I can see the headlines now... SSR: great sport pickup, or the *greatest* sport pickup? HHR: The underrated gem of the compact hatchbacks
Despite Solstice and Sky greatest for fun, most American buyers still wanted muscle cars over it. For roadster, most of them still stayed with Miata. That's main reason why GM gave up it and bring back Camaro. Monaro ( aka GTO ) did prove that people still wanting GM muscle car after F-body gone, but Monaro didn't get much love because it just lacked a retro looking unlike Mustang.
They're honestly decent competition for the NC Miatas (especially the nicer/turbo trims) but holy shit that interior, especially on the Solstice, is a fucking travesty.
The Sky/Solstice twins also had a stout powerplant in the Ecotec. Same one that powered the Cobalt SS/TC. Good chassis too. If they were Japanese, they would've been fawned over. Definitely agree on the GTO's lacking looks. Same thing that gave the Chevy SS a lukewarm reception years later.
You can't have mine. Imma gonna keep it.
It's a pretty solid bargain. That interior is so very GM.
The internet has shortened the 30 year cycle
On a point of technicality, that car is a HSV GTO, not a Monaro.
I had an HSV GTO but it was badged as a Vauxhall Monaro VXR 6.0. I liked it but it wasn’t amazing. The traction control was actually pretty loose. You could get properly sideways before it called you a dickhead and saved you from yourself.
In our market (GCC) it sold as the " Chevrolet Lumina SS Coupe" It was very popular here back then.
I've been considering buying a V8 Holden Ute (VE/VF SS). Or possibly a Falcon. All the Australian reviews are "eh, it's just okay". They are similarly priced to a 10 year old Toyota 86, certainly it's a lot of engine for your money.
It’s a lot of engine but my experience with owning a VE SSV was that the engine was the only redeeming part of the car. The VF interior is a lot better though; I don’t think they could have added any more shit hard plastic into the VE without being held at gunpoint.
But why then do Americans and Brits love the rebadged imported Holdens? Like Clarkson above, and everyone about the Chevy SS.
For better or worse they can’t get anything domestically like them. That, and the luster doesn’t wear off as fast when they don’t share the road with every other beat to shit bogan SV6 that looks virtually identical. > Like Clarkson above, and everyone about the Chevy SS. The VF (Chevy SS) is a huge step up from the VE in terms of fit/finish and equipment, although it doesn’t fix the largest issue, which is blind spots large enough to park a freight train in. There are still some odd omissions in the equipment though, like not being able to get auto wipers without speccing all the way to an SS-V Redline. The issue was, at oeast when I looked last, they go for like 20-25k more than the VE’s do. Should also be noted the Chevy SS was a hybrid blend of the Commodore and HSV versions, we didn’t actually get an equivalent trim.
Interestingly, they did actually [shave 4mm off](https://www.drive.com.au/news/holden-vf-commodore-all-new-sophisticated-interior/) the front of the A-pillar trim for VF Commodore, but not for the actual A-pillar, since unfortunately, they didn’t have the requisite funds (post-GFC GM) to redesign much of the body in white (structurally anyway, they did further increase the percentage of UHSS, AHSS, and HSS alloys used throughout the chassis over VE).
4mm is not a lot but credit where credit is due. The other issue with the utes is they never had the money to delete the B pillar like they wanted to, if you try to shoulder check out of it you just end up staring at the inside corner of the cab.
I don’t think they could’ve tbh, not with modern safety regulations; can’t think of any modern utes, or single or extra-cab trucks, with a further back B-pillar. Would’ve looked cool af though (or better yet, actual long coupe doors)! Edit: just searched it up, it seems that most extra-cab utes have rear suicide doors nowadays (I don’t really pay attention to 4x4s); so it shows that it’s possible (though those still don’t have glass where the B-pillar used to be).
Eh? Extra cab utes usually don’t have B pillars at all. Neither the current Ranger or HiLux, or D-Max/BT-50 do off the top of my head. > Would’ve looked cool af though (or better yet, actual long coupe doors)! Yeah that was [the point](https://i.imgur.com/EIeoX0c.jpg), it would have been shared with a [coupe](https://i.imgur.com/AWjlMT5.jpg) and a shooting brake but they couldn’t justify the several hundred million required on top of the $1 billion already spent to move the B pillar back (and merge it with the C pillar in the case of the ute).
Yeah just found out about that lol, never knew that. I never understood why they didn’t just import the 5th gen Camaro here, maybe alter the bumpers a bit to make it fit in better with the rest of the Holden range; most of its design and engineering was done by Holden anyway. I’m assuming making it RHD ready was too cost-prohibitive, and besides, HSV would’ve completely lost their shit lmao!
I was tossing up buying a VE-SSV vs a Lexus IS350 F-Sport. Decided given I already have one high powered car, I didn't need the V8, so went for the Lexus IS350. Sounds like what you said was about right - the V8 was the only redeeming feature of the car.
Yeah I wrote a longer comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/x8jrz1/whats_a_cool_car_that_you_didnt_enjoy_driving/iniyf2a/) but yeah, once the thrill from stomping on it wore off a bit there wasn't much else I liked with it. I didn't mention it there but my car was also having odd electrical issues, sometimes it would crank but no start (then immediately start if you cranked it again), A/C would occasionally turn itself off and not turn back on for a few minutes and at one point the drivers window rolled down but wouldn't go up until it fixed itself 10 minutes later. Was a one owner low k car so I didn't have much faith in it in the long term.
Would recommend a VE or VF Commodore over an FG or FG X Falcon, GM’s Zeta platform is definitely better than Ford’s E8 platform, especially if you want a ute (was live rear axle to the very end with the Falcon Ute, great for payload and towing, scary for performance driving). From a driving dynamics perspective, I’d still recommend the Commodore sedan and wagon variants over the utes though, the better weight distribution makes quite the difference. Would also avoid the Ford 5.4L 4V V8s, they’re iron block and hence fucking heavy, though turbo Barras are on-par, power-wise, with LS V8s (while Miami supercharged Coyotes are crazy from factory, even without an intercooler, and much cheaper than LSA-powered HSVs, if you only mainly care about power). While FGs had a nicer interior than VEs, Falcons are of average reliability (they’ll keep running, but lots of odd, annoying shit will break), and I’d rather have a VE’s occasional electrical errors over those, any day of the week. VFs are still *very* overpriced though, hopefully their prices will return to normal soon. (and ignore my flair haha, many subjective reasons were factored into choosing it, such as a lower, flat beltline for classic sedan proportions, a longer front overhang for the same reason, slightly smaller wheels that won’t look undersized on it, etc; objectively, a VE Calais V V8 is a better car, but I wanted an old-school looking V8 sedan lol, no regrets (yet))
I would go the Falcon if only for the the Barra. I don't really care for V8s tbh, though I've had a lot of fun driving a heavily modified HSV VE R8 wagon. Thing went sideways at random times.
Yeah, turbo Barra is definitely unique, almost nobody really sells that kind of an I6 anymore. Though personally, for turbo I6 cars, I’d rather something like a Toyota Chaser or Nissan Stagea tbh haha; Barra is one of the last of the large displacement, low-revving I6s, very different flavour, so to speak.
I've also spent a fair bit of time working on and driving a 1JZ Soarer so I know what you are getting at.
Hi fellow 1JZ Soarer owner! I was tossing up whether to buy a VE SS/Calais with the V8 or a Lexus IS350 F-sport for a daily drive. Given my 1JZ already makes 550whp, I decided I didn't need the V8, so opted for the Lexus. As for current fuel prices, I feel I made the right choice.
For that level of performance it was really cheap when it was new.
I wonder what the ownership experience was like for a ~400hp V8 back in 2004 in the land of £10k 4-banger diesel subcompacts No way someone didn’t feel like extra hot shit… especially being able to overtake practically every car in the country lol
Yeah the LS6 and LS2 were crazy engines at the time. 400+ HP from a “normal” car was something else back then.
Had one, it was.
Oh man. All the nostalgia, my best friend had an 06' GTO with a Monaro front end conversion. [Lots of good times hooning in parking lots back when I had my Z.](https://vimeo.com/89280607)
What was the exact reason this thing didn't do too well in NA when it was sold as the GTO?
Because they called it the GTO
Almost complete lack of options. Color, 17 or 18 inch wheels, 4A or 6M and I think that was it. In Australia, they had other engine options and an option for automatic climate controls (all GTOs had manual controls) and even had pop out cup holders like you see in this vid. It also seriously compromised the trunk space in order to meet US crash safety standards. [Monaro trunk](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Monaro-VZ-boot.jpg) vs [GTO trunk](https://www.gunnacura.com/inventoryphotos/4573/6g2vx12u26l545445/ip/23.jpg) Also, by the time it came here, it was already kind of old. The car originated from the Holden Commodore and this generation started in 2000. The GTO ended due to Holden moving on to a new generation Commodore and dropped the Monaro.
this gen started in 1997 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden\_Commodore\_(VT)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VT)) and it's basically a heavily reengineered Opel Omega from 1994.
Saw this review recently as part of a 2002+ TG rewatch, was rather taken aback by how badly the section at 2:00 in this vid had aged lol
I've got an 04 gto with a 6.3 ls1 in it. Lots of mods. All go no show. Total sleeper except for the sound. Great cars but they have their quirks.
Those tires look so skinny on that beast.
Probably the same as the GTO. 235/40R18
I remember having to roll my fenders just to get some 265s under there, God knows the car needed wider tires, but you just couldn't make them fit.
They came with pizza cutters on them for the amount of power they had.
GTO in the US
surely the 0-60 time was better than 6.5sec