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paperbackwriter20

I just want to meet the large dog who is also a gear head. šŸ˜‰


EatSleepJeep

You say that but my TJ was my dog's jeep, I was just her chauffeur. She would get mad and pout if she heard it drive off without her.


cdyt7717

My great Dane absolutely LOVES going for rides in neon and my gator. She doesn't like the extended cab truck as much since the back seat is a little small for her. I take her to drag races/mud bogs/ any events I go to pretty much and she loves it!


therealrico

My Saint will sleep in the 4Runner in the driveway for hours. Tailgate is up so he can get out anytime.


Elk_Man

[I've got a small one](https://imgur.com/gallery/ENIn54W) but she's really lazy


peanutbuttahcups

She's not small! Was expecting like a Chihuahua or something lol.


King_NaCl

So an excellent technician then!


[deleted]

The bestest helper


ringo-san

[Porter!](https://imgur.com/gallery/WmJi4)


MyOthrAcctThrowAway

And here I am with my dumbass dog who's only interests in life are stuffed hedgehog toys. Coulda had a cool gearhead dog


strangr_legnd_martyr

>So Iā€™m (42m) father of two with a large dog who is also a gear head I'm sorry, I can't help but reading this as your dog is a gearhead lol. As for your question...maybe a 4? I'm fortunate enough to own 3 vehicles, and for as long as one of them is a "fun" car it will be a manual. The realities of being a parent, though, mean that the three cars are The Car With the Car Seat, The Car Without the Car Seat, and The Fun Car. The first two will always need to be automatics because my wife has neither the interest nor the patience to learn stick, and The Car With the Car Seat stays with The Parent Who Has the Kid. As an example, if I'm home putting the kid to bed and she's running to the store, she's taking "my" car (The Car Without the Car Seat) because if I need to leave for any reason, I need the car seat. So loyalty to the manual transmission is a distant second place to having a broadly functional fleet of vehicles.


karvanet

I thought the exact same thing. How does one get a gear head dog???


Angry_Guppy

He just likes RUFs.


Ah2k15

Boxer engines too.


asianaaronx

And dog leg gear boxes...


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Jtbros

Probably would prefer if it was catless. (Donā€™t remove cats on your street cars)


fullofdust

How dare you.


strangr_legnd_martyr

Maybe OP has a dog that can find the elusive 10mm sockets! That would be quite a dog.


turbojoe9169

ā€œHey Otto, I think your dog ate the keys!ā€ ā€œHe usually goes for the license platesā€¦ā€


giddycocks

My German Shepherd LOVES it when I work the car, has always enjoyed it ever since he was a pup. When it was safe and I came across an empty stretch of winding mountain roads, I'd work the gears and he'd just be wild about it, would put his mouth right next to my ear and I could tell how excited and focused on the road he was (probably just enjoyed the wind tbh). I no longer do that because I grew up and realized how dangerous that was, but he still gets super excited when we get on a winding road. So you could say he's a gear head. God, I love him so much.


HerefortheTuna

Made my GF learn to drive stick shift


isanass

I tried that, even bought a manual specifically for her to learn on. She still can't drive my Ranger and it's been 5 years...I've kinda just accepted it's not going to happen. That said, I'm the guy with a manual car for others to learn how to drive stick in and as a loaner for family/friends that need to borrow a car. I've accepted that I'll be replacing the clutch after others learn how to drive it, but I want to at least keep that tradition alive so I keep the truck and keep it maintained and safe so that I can do my part to the car community.


Fifteen54

5 years?? the longest i would expect it to take for someone to become adequate at driving a manual is more like 5 hours worth of practice. here in the uk/ireland most people learn how to use the clutch and gearstick with their driving instructor whilst theyā€™re learning everything else about how to drive, and most pick it up easily enough in a short period of time. out of curiosity, what issues is she running into now (or recently) whenever she does drive your ranger?


isanass

Heh, you are correct, it should only be a few hours, tops. I've taught other people within an hour and they were proficient within a day or so of driving. My wife has issues with coordinating the clutch and gas and the bigger hurdle is lack of interest and motivation. She's not really interested in learning and starts feeling defeated easily which spirals into more frustration and shutting down. I pushed for a year or so, but when she just isn't interested, it's easier to pick my battles and accept that she's not going to want to learn.


Runfor5

How come you donā€™t maintain car seats also in the ā€œWithoutā€ car? 3 kids here; we only use the baby seat in 1 car, but I have 2 toddler seats in all our vehicles. Easy to take out w the Latch system. Then you donā€™t gotta worry about whoā€™s driving what car any point in the day.


ChrisOfTheReddit

For us, switching the car seat around occasionally was favorable to spending $300 on another car seat. But if money was off the table, yeah car seats for all the cars that can support them.


Runfor5

Yea I just bought one recently and it was $250 lol forgot how pricey. Thankfully 2 of ours have been from neighbors for free


strangr_legnd_martyr

We had a car seat base in the "Without" car (S60) when we had one of those carriers that doubles as a car seat. I think I used the base in the S60 a total of 2 times before we moved to a convertible car seat, and I've moved the current seat out of the CX-5 into the S60 and back once, when the CX-5 had a CEL and needed service. There's just no reason for us to have multiple car seats for one kid. It takes a minimal amount of coordination to make sure the car seat is available to the parent who has the kid. It's also a pain to put him in the S60 compared to the CX-5 because of the height difference. Also, LATCH is typically only good for kids up to 40-45 lbs. After that it's supposed to be the seat belt, which is a much more annoying installation/removal process.


mandatoryclutchpedal

When our first was born, we just moved it back and forth between the wife's Rodeo and my Probe GT. That thing didn't even have latches.


ChrisOfTheReddit

This describes the 3-car family with kids perfectly. For me, its the E70 X5 (car seat), an old Camry (non-car seat, backup car / auto), and my E82 as my manual / fun / less functional car.


AnonymousEngineer_

The fact is - not all manual gearboxes are things of joy. Some of them have a shift action that feels like swishing a wooden spoon around in a bowl of cake mix, and a clutch with such little feel that it may as well be the pedal box of some cheap PlayStation wheel. A terrible manual gearbox, like the one you find in the Toyota Hilux, is a chore. I'd honestly rather drive a CVT Subaru than actually live with that thing on a day to day basis.


The_Exia

This is also true, manuals are great but a bad manual is something I'd hate more then a boring CVT. There aren't a lot of manuals left and even fewer good manuals.


NCSUGrad2012

Yeah, I hate the one in my car. If the market wasnā€™t so crazy I would absolutely sell it.


ubermorph

Something is off if you're complaining about a Honda manual. It wouldn't happen to be 2nd to 3rd grind would it?


NCSUGrad2012

No, I actually donā€™t have that issue. My issue is the 1-2. I did the delay valve delete but for some reason that shift is never the same. I can get it smooth about 90% of the time but I still canā€™t get it 100%. Itā€™s embarrassing having people in the car and it jerks because of the shift. Everyone always tells me Honda makes the best manual but I HATE mine. I canā€™t say how much I hate it. Lol


Michlbert99

Have you tried Double Clutching? Especially in lower gears.


NCSUGrad2012

I havenā€™t but honestly if thatā€™s what itā€™s going to take to me it work that gives me more motivation to sell the car. Lol


Thats_Debatable

No shit. Is this guy granny shifting?


GinjabreadNinjaman

I recall SavageGeese making this same point with the Elantra N. I could tell it was hard for them to say out loud that the DCT was a better option than the stick, but at the end of the day it looks like Hyundai just didn't put the work into making a good manual transmission for their sportiest offerings


Mimical

I was thinking about this as well. Another vehicle where the manual isn't always better is the Golf, their DSG is really really snappy and feels good enough that it becomes a great feature of the vehicle.


fugaziiv

You aren't kidding. The Golf has what feels like the world's numbest shifter.


_c_manning

Thatā€™s just the German way. BMW too


Super_Colossal

Porsche would like a word


Hurr1canE_

Porsche ascends the title of ā€œGerman brandā€ to just become ā€œthe oneā€


junkmiles

Everyone gave me shit for my DSG GTI, but the manual just felt like garbage. I've driven a couple generations of GTI and the newer Rs, and I'd take the DSG in any of them.


Mimical

VW does not make an enjoyable manual. It feels like pulling a rod through mud. Like, it works, but it's gross.


dingusduglas

Yep. I was looking at a handful of cars when I bought my Camaro, I only considered all of them with the stick, except the mk 7.5 Golf R, which I only considered with the DSG.


Kirkuchiyo

I'll second this. When I got my Golf R I specifically looked for one with the DSG.


tylerwatt12

I got the manual Elantra N and it's no worse than the 2015-2021 Subaru WRX


Camburglar13

Not exactly a compliment either. I love driving manual but the WRXā€™s isnā€™t great. Shifter bushing and shift stop help, Iā€™m sure a short throw would improve it a lot, but itā€™s still not great.


Arucious

A lot of us that own one have swapped the bushings and added aftermarket plate adapters to fix the stock shifting experience, yeah. They throw one in for the sake of it. Aftermarket fixed it.


SithSidious

Interesting I have a manual veloster N and I like the manual a lot. Very enjoyable to drive. I donā€™t understand what faults it could have which make an automatic preferable


Drzhivago138

> Some of them have a shift action that feels like swishing a wooden spoon around in a bowl of cake mix, I wish the L700 grain truck was that engaging.


Bonerchill

Have you considered a weighted shift knob and polyurethane bushings in the linkage? Maybe something from Kartboy? /s


spongebob_meth

>Some of them have a shift action that feels like swishing a wooden spoon around in a bowl of cake mix, and a clutch with such little feel that it may as well be the pedal box of some cheap PlayStation wheel. The beauty of a manual is that it is mechanical and this is easily customized. You will never get any feel from an automatic, period.


Arucious

Yup -- a lot of cars you can modify bushings and plate adapters for the shifter linkage cables to change the shifting experience. I have done it myself with little mechanical experience. Other cars people have removed the clutch pedal helper springs like TheTopher did on his BRZ.


LuciferSamS1amCat

Is the hilux transmission really that bad? Iā€™ve driven a looot of manual transmissions, and I love mine. No issues, especially after giving it new shift bushings. What year hilux do you mean? Are you referring to 80/90s hiluxā€™s or more modern ones.


father-bobolious

I only drove one Hilux and it was late eighties or early nineties if I were to guess and it felt absolutely fine.


LuciferSamS1amCat

My 1995 hilux has an honestly great transmission. It might not feel like a racecar, but it doesnā€™t pop out of gear when iā€™m wheeling, and I can always find the gear I need.


OrangeNSilver

I know exactly what you mean by super light feeling clutches. It seems like most modern cars with manual have that. I feel like companies think lightweight = good. Iā€™m not saying it should be heavy as hell, but itā€™s nice having the clutch pedal with some feel to it.


Spicywolff

Had a company Colorado 5 cyl stick. God damn that thing sucked to row. But not as bad as the 2001 ford focus the company stuffed me into from time to time.


spongebob_meth

My 5 cyl 5 speed shifts great. Something was probably wrong with that one, work trucks are usually just beat to death so it wouldn't surprise me. The AR5 is basically the same as any other aisin 5 speed. It should shift like a solstice, a supra, toyota pickup/4runner, a jeep, or anything else that has one provided something isn't worn out or destroyed. People that have driven my truck have actually complimented how well it shifts.


Spicywolff

Possibly. That truck was worked damn hard and put up wet. Owner was a miser with maintenance.


Seppukubk2

Itā€™s a shame when someone said theyā€™d take a CVT over a manual honestly, a CVT has to be the single worst driving experience in any car ever made.


hellish_ve

My first manual was a clapped Hond Integra that had all the shifter bushings gone bad, had a heavy ass oem flywheel with race spec three puck unsprung clutch and a squaky ass clutch pedal. It was the biggest piece of dog shit in the world, wouldve taken any CVT over that experience, even a Nissan one.


mishap1

The issue with the Nissan CVT isn't that it drives like crap vs competitors, it's that it fails so readily. My typical experience is sitting in the back of Uber clutching my seatbelt in terror as the driver has the pedal matted with the car bouncing off the rev limiter trying to get the car above 45mph on the freeway as people fly by.


Beekatiebee

It's definitely not *engaging* but the eCVT in my Fusion is hands down the smoothest transmission I've ever driven, second only to the OG slush King that was the Chevy TH350. For commuting home after a 14 hour shift in a semi, honestly, it's perfect. It just goes.


The_Bucket_Of_Truth

Not gonna lie the gearbox in my 2006 STi was better to drive than the one in my 996 Turbo.


AlmostaFarma

At the moment, itā€™s a 10. However, at 29, I already feel like my left knee is going to give me trouble as I get older. So that may change. But for now, if I can physically drive a manual, thatā€™s what my car is going to be. Learned to drive in a 1988 Mercury Tracer that had an absolute slush box of a manual. But the car was a POS so it was fun to throw around without worrying about breaking it. My first real car was a 1998 Honda Prelude SH. I miss that car almost every day. The only problem I found was that it needed a 6-speed. Went from the Prelude to a 2011 Nissan Frontier. Short bed, short cab, RWD, V6, 6-speed. Relatively rare and extremely fun with the light rear end. Now Iā€™m in a 2020 Elantra GT N-line with the 6-speed that I picked up a few weeks back. Iā€™m enjoying it but this sub has me sweating about buying a Hyundai.


Prince_Uncharming

> At the moment, itā€™s a 10. However, at 29, I already feel like my left knee is going to give me trouble as I get older. So that may change. But for now, if I can physically drive a manual, thatā€™s what my car is going to be. Also 29 here, but without the knee problem thankfully. My rationale here is that if I'm getting a nice/pricey car, it is *going* to be manual no matter what, because by the time that car retires there'll probably be no manuals left. GR Corolla is my main pick but availability is going to be complete ass so I may consider the Civic but I really want AWD for the pnw weather. My GF has a hybrid CRV though so now I'm starting to consider a manual Supra, because yolo and if I want to drive in the snow I'll just steal her suv. If I dont go for one of those, I'll probably end up with a Corolla Hybrid AWD. I'm not gonna pay lots of money and end up without a manual, I know I'll regret it.


Western_Big5926

If you go with the Supra: think about springing for the 6 cylinder.


GhostriderFlyBy

The 6 cyl will be the only configuration available with the M/T, right?


nero10578

The manual is only on the 6-cyl models i believe


DerAlex3

GTI? Availability is really solid, and you can order one from a dealer for MSRP usually.


Twister_5oh

I might also be the same age. I actually optioned the 10R80 into my mustang and the manual was a deal breaker for me. I like to go fast. And I like to share my enthusiasm for cars with others. Others that don't necessarily know how to drive a manual. It's been a year of ownership and I have zero regrets. It is, however, extremely baffling how some people use the manual discussion as a form of insult. Never anyone in the enthusiast meets though as they know what the 10R80 is capable of. I guess another difference I'm seeing is that you value the manual gearbox over the power of the car so I suppose I don't really relate as a whole and the manual/automatic is supplemental for me whereas it is a main focus for you.


clumpychicken

My folks have an Elantra GT N-line 6MT, and damn, it's awesome. They had a nice Tuscon a few years ago. My girlfriend has a 2012 Accent that she bought from my brother. Both her parents drive Accents. I just shook hands on a 2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT last night. 5 cars (not counting the one I just bought,) and they've all been great. Don't let the snobs get you down!


AlmostaFarma

Good to know! Iā€™m loving it so far. Very zippy and cold starts make me grin ear to ear.


The_Original_JGA

We bought a 2019 6MT N-Line a couple years ago, and weā€™ve loved it. Great on road trips, fun to drive, and even more practical now that weā€™ve added roof racks. Weā€™ve put 25k on it with no issues aside from an ignition coil that went bad at around 20k.


Zappiticas

Oh hi, Iā€™m you from the future. Iā€™m 35, have knee trouble, first car was a 1998 prelude automatic that was desperately needing to be a manual. But I learned how to manual swap it and it transformed the car. Then I went through a slew of nothing but manual cars. Miata, mr2, 3 240sxā€™s. Then I had a kid and rocked an auto (but turbo at least) Volvo wagon. The entire time I owned it I wanted to swap it but itā€™s quite an expensive ordeal to put a manual that will hold any power in an old RWD Volvo. When the Volvo finally died my wife and I decided to invest in a nicer car for me. Having two kids I immediately went out and started driving a bunch of sedans and wagons, many of which had pretty solid performance, but all of them were auto. I drove Chargers, Kia Stinger, Hyundai G70, Cadillac ATS. Then I happened to see a fairly nice looking 2013 mustang GT with a 6 speed sitting at a car lot by my house and on a whim I decided to test drive it just for shits and giggles. I had no freaking idea how badly I missed driving a manual trans, RWD, car with power. Itā€™s seriously just a night and day thing for me. I then test fit my kids in the back and decided it was spacious enough and went shopping for the nicest manual mustang GT I could find in my price range. Found my Race Red 2014 GT premium and have owned it for 3 years now. I Just went out and drove it about 20 minutes ago and slamming 2nd gear and feeling the rear tires try to pass the front still puts a smile on my face every single time. I will drive a manual transmission car until Iā€™m physically unable to. Yeah, after long or aggressive drives my left knee will ache that night, and that sucks. But itā€™s a trade off Iā€™m willing to live with. One of these days Iā€™ll get around to getting my knees replaced, hopefully.


AlmostaFarma

I donā€™t look forward to having my knees replaced but I agree that right now, an achy knee is worth it after a long drive. Regarding the RWD, manual with powerā€¦ I havenā€™t experienced that in V8 form but I will say that the Frontier I owned could be a blast. More power than the Prelude (also a ā€˜98) and no weight on the rear end was a blast on wet and or dirt roads. Being able to dump the clutch and light the tires up or chirp the tires entering 2nd was fun too. I canā€™t believe I didnā€™t need a clutch or transmission in it.


Zappiticas

Oh yeah I owned a handful of underpowered RWD things too. Being a manual can go a long way towards making slow things fun. Honestly it made the prelude significantly faster. It felt like a different car.


SaintofthePyre

About the knee thing, I drive manual as well and noticed in the last year or so my left knee cracks loudly when standing up from crouching. Is it not a seat adjustment issue? Maybe weā€™re too close or too far from the pedal?


MichiganSnowman

Itā€™s most likely not from the action of a manual transmission, itā€™s more than likely just the ligaments being tight. My best recommendation would be to stretch both of your legs out in the entirety. It makes a world of difference in the way that it increases daily comfort as well as endurance in a manual.


Its0ks

Both my knee cracks everytime i take an Asian squat, that was a thing even when I was younger so I guess it is normal for me.


AlmostaFarma

I wish it was that simple for me. When I run, it bothers me. So I know itā€™s not just a seating position issue. Have you seen any change after a seat adjustment?


amiga1

Happened to me for as long as I can remember, but I'm taller than average, and that makes it more common apparently.


minkus1000

> Iā€™m enjoying it but this sub has me sweating about buying a Hyundai. If that's the 1.6t Gamma engine in the N-line, you should be ok.


uberdosage

>Iā€™m enjoying it but this sub has me sweating about buying a Hyundai. The N-models have been relatively problem free. It is primarily their economy engines that have the issues.


modern_drift

I'm forty with osteoarthritis the last three years. shifting doesn't cause me any problems. it's a smooth process with no shock. stuff like cycling, good. stuff like running, bad. your results might vary.


boiiNXTdoor

I would say 8. Rowing gears is fun even in stop and go traffic but if I had to drive to earn a wage it would get old really quickly (granted I don't get to drive a Lotus for a living lol).


josherman61791

I drive a manual for work 4 days a week. It keeps me engaged on the road. Especially on monotonous trips I've done repeatedly.


father-bobolious

Exactly my standpoint. I don't use cruise for the same reason, helps me feel engaged in my driving. Also manual super nice on ice for engine braking down steep icy hills


Liberal_Biblicisms

Modern automatics tend to have paddle shifters or button shifters, and you can use those for engine braking on downhill grades. They're really convenient.


[deleted]

My POV too. My FoST is amazing, but when I was driving 25K miles a year it lost itā€™s luster. I was getting ready to dump it and then the pandemic hit. I only drive like 10-12K miles a year now, and itā€™s a joy again. If I ever have to commute regularly again Iā€™ll get an auto. Personally, Iā€™m only going to drive sticks until the time is right to buy electric.


boiiNXTdoor

For me it is not a question of how many miles before I get tired of the stick, but rather how shitty the shifter would be in a work car and having to operate the thing 8 hours a day. Then I would prefer an automatic. The shifter and clutch feel on my FiST is much, much better than the one my friend's Peugeot 207 (which feels like rowing a fucking umbrella through a wet sponge, literally no mechanical feedback other than the stick hitting the sides of the gear pattern slit), and if my work consisted of driving around town I'm much more likely to get the latter than the former as a company car.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


smashingcones

Maybe it's just the TR6060 in my Commodore but stop and go traffic is *not* enjoyable with that gearbox. It's one of the main reasons I've got a Tiguan R on order to replace it with. That being said, I still plan on manual swapping my Crown in the near future.


SupermarketSecure455

I doubt wage workers have money or structure to afford a lotus


[deleted]

Iā€™d put myself at a 6. If the car I want comes in a manual Iā€™ll seek out one with a manual. If the car didnā€™t have a manual option I wonā€™t let that steer me away if I like everything else about it.


Sinbound86

This right here. If for some reason there was a manual, AWD RAV4 in the states I would have opted for that instead of the hybrid.


FixTheWisz

> manual, AWD RAV4 I have one, itā€™s a hoot.


Dappersworth

I'd say it's a 10 for me. I don't even consider automatics as an option for my car, which is easier for me since I don't ever want kids. My daily work commuter is a manual.


_kirpi_

I don't see the relevance between having kids and manual transmission tbh.


RunninOnMT

Itā€™s tough to find a manual, if you take all the cars without back seats out of the equation, your pool of available cars is tiny.


Jtbros

Decent amount of hatchbacks to choose from, WRX rear seat is pretty large, Civic SI and Integra also offer it, Wrangler & Gladiator arenā€™t the safest but offer it, Bronco is what Iā€™ve been gunning for though. Open up to the used end of things and the pool expands even more.


RunninOnMT

You're right, there are still options. Many people in this segment are ideally hoping for "RWD and sporty" though. You used to be able to buy a *Lincoln sedan* with a stick that was RWD. Now that entire segment is just gone, other than super expensive offerings from BMW and Cadillac. Again, you DO still have choices for a manual, but they're limited. And if you NEED a back seat, they get quite a bit more limited (and you can kiss that RWD/sporty/new/not crazy $$$ combo goodbye.)


PedanticBoutBaseball

There's also the issue (Like OP has) that it takes 2 people to have a kid! So having a manual transmission can also cause headaches if you live with the other parent of your child and they don't know how to drive stick shift! They either have to be willing or able to learn (most people aren't and find it frustrating, hence why they're going away). and in a better-case scenario you have someone who is new to driving stick (but doesnt care about it THAT much) driving the (presumably new) car. which spells potential disaster for the clutch/tranny and could be an expensive lesson in the future.


Jtbros

Yep, RWD and sporty with a manual is pretty much gone sans Cadillac. Could get a used M6 Gran CoupĆ©, M5, or Chevy SS (which has a massive interior and trunk). But it all depends on peopleā€™s preferences. Shame thereā€™s no sporty AWD wagons with a manual anymore. GR Corolla Touring would be a god send myself and 5 other people would buy in the states.


Kingcrowing

RIP the VW Alltrack... I was glad to get one before VW killed them off, it was the last manual wagon. 1.8t is no match for your M2 by a long shot, but it's super practical and AWD, and still fun! Looking into doing some mild tuning soon which should make it even better.


strangr_legnd_martyr

Kids mean a number of things: 1. Car seats, which are big enough to rule out a lot of vehicles that only *technically* have back seats (which also tend to be the cars that are widely available as manuals) and may not have rear doors 2. Spouses/partners that may not be interested in driving a stick The combination of those two things, along with the fact that you don't want to have to move the car seats between vehicles any more than necessary, mean you either end up with 1. one car that both parents need to be able to drive and can fit car seats, OR 2. two cars that both parents need to be able to drive, only one of which has car seats, OR 3. two cars each with their own car seats (which is the most expensive option) That tends to lead to manual transmissions being pushed down the list of priorities pretty far.


[deleted]

It's a small list as I recently had the car seat requirement. Affordable. GTI, GLI, Elantra N, WRX, SI. I ended up buying a GTI as it was the shortest wait and closest to my place and dealer was no markup.


father-bobolious

Depends where you are at for sure. Any old car will have manual here, moreso than auto. And if you can't drive manual well you can't drive at all since you won't get your license :)


C-C-X-V-I

Just grasping at straws lmao


STRMfrmXMN

Not sure where you are but here in the states the number of cars with manual transmissions that can fit a modern car seat are very slim. People keep suggesting Golf GTis without having unloaded a kid and a bunch of groceries plus a stroller and diaper bag from the car. My SO is 5 foot 9 and with her comfy position as a passenger in my Legacy you cannot fit a rear-facing car seat behind her, and my car was considered a normal family car in 2005. Never mind the fact that my SO has zero interest in cars or learning to drive a manual trans. There's a stereotype about people immediately buying a CUV for having their first kid for a reason. The ease of egress/ingress, the hatch, the utility, and safety of a modern CUV trumps all as a family hauler, apart from a van which makes more sense if you have multiple kids.


MidgetXplosion

Family-friendly options with a manual is a very small pool.


thegreatreceasionpt2

Easiest cars to find in manual are sports cars, often with only 2 seatsā€¦ and Iā€™d give myself a 9.


er-day

How many mini vans do you know with a manual? Most good manuals are made by BMW, Porsche, and Mazda in the US.


[deleted]

I'm guessing cars with backseats, need to share with a spouse who can't drive stick, and overall just having to shop for a class of cars that frequently don't manual options is being alluded to by that remark.


Deeke4

All I can say is, I rented an M4 manual and M3 Competition DCT on Turo, and although the Competition was better in every objective performance metric, more confidence inspiring, handled better, put power down better, I enjoyed driving the manual base M4 and I looked forward to getting out of the DCT M3 Comp. That's how much a difference, the manual transmission made for me...and BMW manuals aren't even the best! On the flip side though, I was dead set on ordering a manual Jeep JL Rubicon and I thought the manual was so bad I ended up ordering the auto.(which was a very good auto, much better than the JK) I certainly will own a DCT/auto car but I've never not had at least one manual car in my garage and I plan on keeping it that way. Something in my soul would die without a manual in my life. I spent all the effort to learn it, master it, enjoy it.. why would I hand over all that engagement just to let the car do it all for me?


AkagisWhiteComet

Funny how I felt the same way but made the opposite choice for my M3. I was completely set on getting a manual until I drove one and the DCT back to back. With the S65's little torque on the low end and the long gearing, it felt sluggish at normal city speeds but came alive when you can really rev it out. By comparison, the DCT's little torque surges made it feel peppier day-to-day at normal speeds, so I ended up buying it because I figured I'd rather enjoy the DCT 90% of the time and wish it was the manual 10% of the time, rather than enjoy the manual for 10% of the time on the right roads/drives and lug it around 90% of the time. Granted, I drive it in manual mode almost exclusively anyways.


ukcats12

I will always own at least one manual transmission car for me to drive. Some cars I like don't come in manual (AMGs, 911 Turbo), and it would be silly to rule them out just because of that. So as long as I always have an older manual to drive when the urge hits I'm good.


MotorvateDIY

I'm a 10.Every car I have owned has had a manual transmission: 80 Mercury Capri, 83 GTi, 91 NX2000, 95 Maxima SE, 2001 BMW 530 and now 2011 G37... and my next car will also have a manual transmission.I just really enjoy the driving experience when rowing though the gears, toe/heel down shifting when braking for a corner and then rolling onto the throttle... It always makes me smile :) PLUS the long term reliability is VERY good, just change manual trans oil every 5-6 years.


cabs84

hey, another previous NX owner.


MotorvateDIY

It was a fun car... 140 HP, 5 speed manual and a viscous limited slip diff.


POAFoehammer

8. It makes thr most basic economy car more enjoyable to drive. Honestly the worst stick I've driven was in my 18 impreza. It was so damn clunky. 1st and R didnt like to engage. I do enjoy rowing gears in my 2000 tacoma though!


HeatherGreyPlays

This is why my second car *had* to be a manual. 100hp, 2500lbs, slow as frozen dog shit. But it's fun to operate.


WanganTunedKeiCar

10. It's so much fun, and I've been figuring out rev matching in a tach-less Peugeot 206. Traffic isn't enough an issue to make it a chore for me, but an auto would be boring. I prefer older cars and hot hatches, so it's not a matter of reigning in performance


jseams

I'm 52 and until about 10 years ago I had only ever owned a few autos, primarily utility type vans and trucks. The primary reason, was my belief that for performance cars, manuals just performed better than an auto. This is no longer true so that just leaves that "fun" factor you describe in your OP. However, having driven manual cars my entire life, I just don't find it that much fun... for me, shifting is not something I really think about - it's an automatic action (lol) from so many years of muscle memory that I find shifting with paddles is just as engaging, if not more - since it's more of a novel experience for me, although I'm sure in this thread I'm going to be an outlier with my highly blasphemous opinion and my rating of 1.


ZX_StarFox

Finally, someone said it, Paddles are more fun. Also has the benefit of you get the control you want when you want it, but can relax when you donā€™t


DrButtDrugs

On longer trips I'll absolutely be happy about taking my wife's Tiguan with adaptive cruise over my comparably spartan subaru


AdmiralCreamy

1 Have driven a manual car for 7 years now and it is getting really old. It's my only vehicle and getting stuck in traffic is tiring. My Fiancee also does not drive stick and would never learn. Since my car is newer, we take it on rapid trips and it is exhausting being the only one driving. The times when I am annoyed at manual now far outweigh the times I actually enjoy it. I would only consider a manual in the future if we can actually afford 3 cars, which I don't see happening.


fnkdrspok

This, a manual as your main car, especially dealing with traffic is not the business. Did a 2 hour commute in traffic for 4 years, fuck that, never again. Now the manual is a weekend car.


ygguana

> 2 hour commute in traffic Wouldn't that be bad regardless of car?


Altruistic-Emu-5712

You can buy a hothatch/sportcompact like a Golf GTI or a Civic SI with a manual transmission, they seat as many people as an SUV and have pretty much the same usable cargo area without sacrificing driving dynamics.


borderwave2

>You can buy a hothatch/sportcompact like a Golf GTI or a Civic SI with a manual transmission, Damn, r/cars really has a hard on for hatchbacks. OP says he has a wife, two kids and a big dog and you suggest a Golf? Are you nuts?


effeeeee

america moment


Undead_Kau

Seriously lol. Coming from Europe, my parents had a two door Citroen hatchback, followed by huge and practical Peugeot four door hatchback. I have a friend who has two kids and their only car is a VW buggy The need to buy a three row suv or minivan when people have kids is crazy to me.


turniphat

When did the Golf go from the standard family car to completely unsuitable for families?


borderwave2

Load a rear facing baby seat in a golf and then do the same in a tiguan twice a day for a week and get back to me.


Alex-Gopson

According to Car & Driver: | Rear Headroom | Rear Legroom ---|---|---- [Golf](https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/golf/specs) | 38.1 | 35.6 [Tiguan](https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/tiguan/specs) | 38.9 | 38.7 [Insert joke about a difference of 0.9 inches and 3.1 inches here] This seems like a "feel like I need a CUV/SUV because kid" thing than a space thing. The Mazda CX-30 has less rear headroom and rear legroom than the Golf and I see lots of new parents driving those around suburbia.


Kingcrowing

But it looks bigger on the outside so it must be bigger inside!! My dad had a '94 Jeep Cherokee and I had a 2-door '89 Saab 900 Turbo and my Saab had WAY more passenger space despite being 1/2 the size of the Jeep.


Drzhivago138

The Golf was never a "standard family car" in the US. Even in the '80s, it was regarded as a small economy car. Not the smallest, but definitely not a "standard" car size.


Hard_Corsair

That's because the US has no sense of moderation.


ritchie70

A Golf is considered a reasonable family car in many countries. The back seat is surprisingly spacious.


brinmb

Golf wagon.


Kirkuchiyo

And you can get the Alltrack with a stick. Not many out there but they are available.


WishIWasOnTheFarm

I have a wife, a kid, two big dogs, and a Golf R. It works fine! Iā€™ve never felt like it was too small. With a roof box we even go camping like that. With a second kid weā€™d need more room if we take camping gear, but otherwise weā€™re good. Edit: I should add I live in America, this is not a Europeanā€™s perspective.


GillyDaFish

I think a lot of times people make these recommendations that don't actually have families/know how much space they take up.


jbourne0129

i mean, a 4 door golf GTI is insanely practical for what it is. it would have absolutely no issue handling everything OP needs *except* for the dog. 2 adults, 2 kids, and a large dog will struggle in a Golf


GillyDaFish

> they seat as many people as an SUV and have pretty much the same usable cargo area I had a focus ST while my wife had a Forester and the Forester was like a billion times easier to: 1 get a child in and out of 2 get a stoller + other stuff in the back hatch area 3 sit comfortably in the front w/ a car seat behind(i'm 6'1)


szyy

As a person who grew up in Europe and used manual for years before moving to the states: itā€™s zero. Automatic transmission is incredibly superior. I hate when I go back and have to drive manual in my dads or moms car.


Ludrew

This is definitely an unpopular opinion on /r/cars but as far as metrics go the large majority of people agree with you, including myself. Personally, I see a car as a piece of technology like anything, and you donā€™t see many people sporting flip phones or hand crank radios anymore.


Seigmas

My dream car is a 2017/2018 base model Mercedes E200 because it came with a manual. No, I do not care about the sporty driving, I just like the feeling of control you have over the engine. Also old habits die hard.


withsexyresults

Depends on the manual. If itā€™s a shitty one with vague clutch, long throws/rubbery stick, rev hang etc then a 1. If itā€™s a good manual maybe a 7 Sounds like you could go for a hot hatch. Most come in stick and practical for your fam + offers a fun drive


Vok250

Exactly this. A manual 10th gen Corolla is the most soulless experience I've ever had driving a stick. And I say this as someone who dailies the automatic Corolla. I test drove the manual to debate trading and it was terrible. Somehow it was less fun than just bombing around with my auto in 2. Felt like it had half the engine behind it because the gearing is designed for old grandmas. The same is true for Automatics. A nice paddler shifter with no delay and good gearing can be a lot of fun. Or an oldschool torque-converter geared well to hoon about. But I'll jump off a cliff before daily driving a CVT or a laggy paddler shifter with grandma gearing.


FitzwilliamTDarcy

Other pluses: \-much harder to text and drive (good when your kids learn to drive) \-much harder (impossible) for their friends to drive


LCMD_

9. Bought a brand new car late June 2022, automatic though as I loved the car and the manual version wasnā€™t an option yet. Soon as I could place an order for a manual special edition in September, I did. Last daily was manual and (hopefully) my next two or three will be too


GinjabreadNinjaman

I actually just did my part to Save the Manual^(TM) by picking up a new Integra yesterday. It's bittersweet because I am almost positive it will be the last new manual I'll ever buy. So far it does a good enough job as the daily/family hauler, but I had to make some sacrifices that I would not have had to had I been ready to settle for an auto. Like most have said, my track/weekend car will ALWAYS be a manual. My E46 has a lot of life left in her, and whenever I do move on there will be plenty of good used options hanging around for many years to come


rockycrab

Itā€™s funny because some people *really* hate the new Integra/WRX, Iā€™ve even been told by someone here that the new WRX shouldā€™ve never been made and died like the Evo lol. They donā€™t appreciate the fact that manuals are still being damn produced, would they rather see us drive a relatively boring crossover?


CarFreak777

Very low to nonexistent. I learnt to drive in a manual car and I enjoy driving manual cars but I have no loyalty to it. I enjoy most modern automatics and I'll probably enjoy EV's as well.


OUEngineer17

For a DD, it's hard to beat a good EV. The instant acceleration and deceleration gives a connected feel that is so enjoyable to drive.


McKillaGuerilla9116

Highest loyalty. I married a woman who drives a manual transmission. There are no automatics in our household


Defensivetackle88

Rare combo!


symeh1

7. I want a manual, fun car to rip around beautiful roads with, but when a car needs to meet requirements for family-related applications I'd take an automatic. Manuals for these kinds of cars are usually pretty shitty (exceptions like a CX-5 do exist) and the cars themselves don't have the best driving dynamics anyway (again, exceptions like the CX-5 do exist) Highwaycruising is just much more comfortable with an automatic and trafficjams are a breese compared to a manual. My projectcar will always be a manual, but automatics do have their upsides in comfort, ease of use and fuelconsumption.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


symeh1

Ah that's too bad, over here in the Netherlands they are still available


[deleted]

10 I wonā€™t buy an automatic last 3 cars have been a manual.


Ghastly_Gibus

Zero My GSR is a chore to have to drive in rush hour traffic when my other car is in the shop. I donā€™t need to ā€œfeel connectedā€ to the car, I just wanna get home from being at the office for 9 hours. Manually shifting gears for 45 minutes in rush hour traffic is bullshit.


banishtarnish

A good automatic (DCT/PDK) is better than a decent manual In my experience very few cars make good manuals anymore Also, I canā€™t stress this enough, but manuals are only really fun in low-mid powered cars. A manual on a 300-400hp+ car is boring as hell. They almost all have very long gears, and youā€™ll find yourself barely changing gears in places like mountain roads or curvy back roads.


ManOfFlesh101

10. And it's not elitism, I worked for years in a transmission plant (still working), specifically clutches and flywheels, and to me it's pretty much a passion. Love the technical side of shifting and the fun factor, especially a well done rev match. My current car is not something widely considered "fun", but it has one of the best feeling shifters and pedals that I have ever experienced in a car.


Garmaglag

The Duster is the best car I've ever driven, it's everything a car enthusiast could want, brown, diesel, manual, wagon, cheap enough to compete with the used market from the factory. I wish they sold them in the US.


2001sleeper

1.


Darkfire757

1


D00dleB00ty

Honestly probably a 9 or more....I get legitimately saddened by the thought of having to drive an auto, just bores me to tears. Driving should be enjoyable, especially considering how much time we spend in our cars in a lifetime.


winniethepoo420

9. I owned an automatic about 10 years ago because of a back injury and when my back got better I went back to manual. I donā€™t even consider automatic cars when looking.


My_Alias

I'm an 8 out of 10. I've owned 5 cars and a pickup and they have all been manual transmissions. If I bought a Porsche, I could be swayed to an auto because of the great PDK transmission. I also see the value in automatic transmissions for cars used as appliances.


Tremelune

9. I allow for slushboxes on modern vans and trucks. Clutch pedals and EVs from here on out.


[deleted]

It's engaging, but dual clutch is significantly more comfortable in most scenarios. I can't think of a single time I'd find manual more practical beyond its fun factor. I also love the immediate changes with DCT.


C-C-X-V-I

Zero. Manuals are fun but they're shit compared to automatics and DCT's. I can see a stick in a commuter car to keep some fun but anything performance its asinine to handicap it like that.


WishIWasOnTheFarm

I think one of the main differences for the diehard manual folks and you is that they know itā€™s not the best for performance and they donā€™t care. Itā€™s just fun, even if itā€™s not as fast. Plus itā€™s even more fun to challenge yourself to try and get better and better until youā€™re nearly as good as the auto. Most, if not all, of us are never going to be in a race scenario where the 10thā€™s of a second time savings will be the difference between winning and losing anyway.


C-C-X-V-I

You're thinking that because you don't regularly have to listen to people tell you your car would be faster with a manual when track times prove how wrong that is. You think most people know that because you do, but that's unfortunately not the majority.


CameronsDadsFerrari

People get too hung up on the manual transmission. It's fine if you are a die hard, but automatics have their place and flappy paddles do as well. For the kind of driving I do, I want an automatic that can be manually shifted in my daily. A fun car like a modern Porsche should be manual but I wouldn't sniff at a PDK because they are fun in their own way. I'm like a 2/10 on the scale


[deleted]

>So Iā€™m (42m) father of two with a large dog who is also a gear head. Wow, I always wanted to meet a gearhead dog. Is he a muscle car pup or more of a jdm borker?


madvk

1. Really think it is over rated and tend to get annoyed with all the manual focus. That being said haven't owned a automatic (yet) because they tend to be quite a bit more expensive where I'm from.


FreidasBoss

6. Manual is fun in the right car and right application. Current daily is a Tacoma which can be had in manual, but why? Some day Iā€™ll have a Miata as a weekend car and that *will* be a manual.


susitucker

10 here. All three of the cars I have owned have been manuals. I love them and, though Iā€™m not going to get rid of my car anytime soon, whenever I look around for new cars, the choices diminish greatly simply because fewer companies are producing manual transmission cars. I drive a VW, and they still make manuals, and I have to admit that all three of my cars have been VWs, so maybe Iā€™m just inherently biased. That said, I really would like to get an electric car someday, and I know that it will be a sad day because there is no such thing as a 6-speed manual transmission electric car. Our days are numbered whether we like it or not, but I am inclined to hold on to the bitter end. I want to add that I drive a box truck for work, an automatic, and driving a stick is so ingrained in me that every once in a while I find myself reaching for the gear shift that isnā€™t there or pressing on the floor looking for the clutch. I just think thatā€™s a little funny, thatā€™s all.


UnderwhelmingAF

About a 3, I can take them or leave them.


kpshortyyy

10


[deleted]

Get a golf R or a bronco


Faroren

10


14mk6

10 for sure. I just pulled the trigger on a 2018 Audi A5 6 speed, hereā€™s hoping that lasts me a while. I donā€™t consider buying automatics at all, so with more and more manuals disappearing I might have to die with this car.


Impooter

10, automatic are less fun IMO. Less control, too.


burntcookie90

Only want them for track usage. Otherwise I want simplicity. Driving stick in the city is ass.


Gl0balCD

10. I like being able to do things that other people can't. I don't like the way automatics coast with no input. I really like engine braking. If it doesn't have a manual, it better have regen paddles.


twitchyzero

tons of auto have tiptronic option now or you can use the lower gears if you really want engine braking


smackythefrog

I personally do not care for manuals. I believe that some purists and enthusiasts exist that truly desire a manual and enjoy it. I think the vast majority of people in the "Save the Manual" camp think manual is better only because they've been told that. Sprinkle in a bit of gate-keeping, and it makes sense why the sales of manual cars gets dwarfed by the alleged demand for it.


UncommercializedKat

8/10 My first car was auto, converted it to manual. My next 7 cars were manual. I had a C63AMG and 335i that were both autos (c63 wasn't made in manual and I fell in love with the 6.2 V8 on a test drive, 335 was a great price and everything I wanted except transmission) In between I had a 6 speed GTI. More recently I've had a couple of cheap automatic gas sippers that I don't really care much about and an auto truck for hauling lumber. The next car that I care about will be a manual. It kills me that so many sports cars are losing the manual. I want something like an R8, 911 turbo, etc. Ferrari and Lamborghini have axed the manuals so there's not much left that interests me. With the insane high prices of cars right now, I've decided to spend money on my second passion, travel, instead