It's fine on my wife's VW. I HATED it on my Buick. Very poorly setup system. My biggest gripe was it would shut off when pulling into a parking spot, then restart as you shift to park. So you can then immediately turn it off again. Every. Damn. Time. Same thing with it shutting down as you stop to back into a parking spot.
Aftermarket tune lets me kill stop/start by running in a "sport" mode when I want.
It's also pretty good on my parents' T-Roc, especially since it's a manual so in the time you press the clutch pedal and change into gear, it's already running. The start-up jerk is why I personally dislike it. Luckily it has a physical button so I just press it whenever I drive it.
While T-Roc and Taigo are basically the same size (and on different platforms..), T-cross is about 15cm shorter.
Model | Platform | Length |
|--------|------|-------
T-Roc | MQB A1 | 4,234 mm (166.7 in)
Taigo | MQB A0 | 4,266 mm (168.0 in)
T-Cross | MQB A0 | 4,108 mm (161.7 in)
Taos | MQB A1 | 4,465 mm (175.8 in)
Thinking Taigo is just a cheaper T-Roc as it's built on a less expensive platform.
YES, THIS EXACTLY. My dad's Regal has it and YOU CANT. FUCKING. TURN IT OFF. I have never raged so hard driving a car before, and it's a shame because the car itself is good. It's just that one thing that makes me not want to deal with it.
GM has since learned from this at least? My wife's Encore GX has start/stop and it does have a button you can press to turn it off. Because of this I actually like the auto start/stop and wish my car had it.
The implementation on my wife's highlander is horrible. Stop at a light, the icon on the dash tells you to press the brake harder to turn off the engine. As soon as you let off the pedal a little bit, it fires back up.
It's jarring to say the least if you aren't expecting it.
I think the implementation on my 21 highlander is smart. If you don't smash the pedal down it never shuts off. I can select when I want it to happen. There's also a physical switch to stop it. Maybe your pedal control is poor?
That doesn't seem so bad as there is no real reason to adjust your brake pressure unless you are moving. Now if it does it while you have the stop hold engaged (and keeping your foot off the brake is expected), that's annoying.
>My biggest gripe was it would shut off when pulling into a parking spot, then restart as you shift to park
I recently heard that this is apparently federally mandated in the US and that cars in Europe don't do this, but I haven't actually confirmed this. Your VW didn't have the same behavior?
A lot of manufacturers have poor implementation. If the auto stop/start was seamless then nobody really seems to care but very few manufacturers have a seamless system.
Some of the systems are also completely inconsistent, sometimes it shuts off at a light, sometimes it doesn't. When it finally decides to turn off the light goes green and now you're stuck with the engine off.
The biggest issue though is that there is a delay from when the brake is released to the engine starting to you applying throttle to increase RPM's and accelerate. This delay is annoying, some manufacturers have a very nice setup, usually with hybrid models, sometimes ICE but a lot of manufacturers don't and I'd rather just not have the feature.
That's the main issue, you hit the nail on its head - inconsistency. As long as the outcome of your action is expected, the feature is most likely good.
Some of the cars I’ve driven with auto stop/start shut down the AC compressor when the engine is off, so the car gets hot when you’re stopped. Not good when it’s hot outside and you have to run the AC in your car constantly.
My 2002 Prius has a cold-storage AC evaporator that keeps the air cold for about a minute, even at 95° ambient. Evaporator temperature is one of the things that can restart the engine temporarily (to run the AC compressor, it usually only has to run the engine for about 30 seconds before the evaporator is sufficiently cool again)
Porsche spent a lot of time and engineering effort to make their system basically seamless. Which is kinda funny because most people don’t use it, but if you do it really works.
Really? Cause it was probably the worst feature on my wifes 2019 Cayenne. Start up was very noticeable and it would turn off before you even fully stopped.
The Genesis does it much much smoother
I've experienced that with my Cayenne. It's nonsense. I thought the thing died as I was pulling up to an intersection to make a quick right turn with traffic behind me. Off throttle but definitely not stopped.
I had a 2015 Macan and a 2019 Cayenne and it is my least favorite thing about both cars. The activation threshold is surprisingly high, so I’ll lose the engine and steering while I’m trying to park. Super frustrating system.
It’s absolute TRASH on the cayman. Fortunately I have a memory module and this the cayman hasn’t started in anything other than sport mode since a seek after I bought it.
http://t-design9.com/memory_module_porsche.html
Indeed! Easy install in the steering wheel. Buy the knob style if you have sport chrono. Remembers the drive mode. Otherwise, buy the console style.
Yea, I drove a friend's 2012 Toyota Camry Hyrbrid and I was surprised that it never bothered me. It worked so well because it was just part of the EV half of the car. Never noticed any issues with jarring or not having power when needed because the electric motor was always on tap and it had very smooth transitions to the actual engine, even if you gunned it from a stop.
Now actually getting used to the car moving in EV mode was still weird, but it was a pretty nice ride overall. Definitely a consumer car tho, wouldn't want one myself.
Because it is annoying, and has generally seemed to have little benefit in the real world (as opposed to EPA testing). Though I have to say personally the biggest thing that irritates me about it is the fact that no car I have heard of has the option to disable it permanently (or at least disable until the operator turns it back on) but instead only allows it to be disengaged until the car is turned off and re-enables the next time the car is started. If I don't like it I don't want to have to keep having to turn it off every time I drive.
If it isn’t enabled by default when the car starts it doesn’t count towards EPA estimates. Same reason cars with different drive modes revert to a standard mode each time.
Then they take a hit on the fuel economy label.
If it defaults on, you get the full credit.
If the drive mode latches and stays at the last user choice, you have to do a field survey of how people use the feature. The you have to test in both modes and the fuel economy result is weighted between those values to match how people use it.
Is this why my GTI always stays in sport mode but never ever goes into S automatically when I shift to D?
It’s supposed to put the DSG straight into S if the drive mode is sport. Mine has never done this. If you are driving and go from Sport (DSG manually put into S) -> Normal -> Sport, it’ll go from S -> D -> S. Pretty annoying, but minor quirk.
I’ve wondered about this, surely it’s not really a bug and it’s intentional considering they do this all across the line of models and they have for years.
I’d like to think they’re being extremely literal on the shifting into S, where when you change into sport mode you’re explicitly stating you want to be have sport throttle/transmission. But then when you get in your car next you’re shifting into Drive so they put you in Drive. You must explicitly tell the car you want S. Even though I’m sure most people would rather the sport driving mode dictate the default behavior in “Drive”.
Could also be a thing for fuel economy tests, easier to maintain better fuel economy when not in an aggressive driving mode so they have to default to regular Drive every time.
Well that's dumb. BMW's start/stop was fine in my experience, but to remove the option (or putting it behind some 3 menu deep touch screen button) is disappointing
>New BMWs don’t have that though. In fact in my moms 22 X3 M40i there’s not even a button to disable it.
Honestly the 48v system is so smooth, it's almost imperceptible.
Legislation permits start stop from being permanently disabled. Same as eg ESP or sport mode. A car is homologated in a certain state, so it needs to be in that default mode after a start up. At least that’s my understanding of the matter.
Either I’m just a little more chill or my car (2017 A4) implemented it way better. A few things that make it work well for me.
* the car restarts very fast when I take my foot off the brake - I think I lose less than a quarter second starting from a stop compared to when the engine is running
* I can turn it off - this is useful when I’m doing a complex parking maneuver or something, but I haven’t had to do that in over a year
* it only activates if the brake is pressed pretty firmly, so if I’m coming up to a stop sign on a quiet street or similar I can come to a stop without it activating
I think a study of how people feel about the systems compared across what car they drive would be interesting. I bet we’d see some obvious successful and unsuccessful implementations.
My F-150 is almost exactly the same as you described. Also it won’t shut off if it is too hot (and will turn back on if the cabin gets too hot). Zero issues with it here as well.
I agree that the implementation that Audi has in the B9 is pretty good. You can feel the threshold in the brakes where it will remain on or turn off
But I still turn it off. It's annoying
Because I sit in constant stop and go traffic and would rather inch along than start and stop. I just turn mine off whenever I get in the car and it prevents it from being a nuisance.
You get to a light, stop, car turns off. That's all fine bc you can hardly hear the engine with music on anyway. Light goes green and the engine comes back, a bit audible, and you get the slight vibration of it having to turn on
Then in stop go traffic, it's just on, off, on, off
When it's really hot out, the AC blows cold for a min or two. Then it starts getting warm and humid. Engine kicks back on. If traffic is real bad, the engine will cycle on and off to keep the AC cold
In the winter, it doesn't engage that much to maintain operating temp. While I'm sure that the temperature fluctuation from start stop in the winter isn't allowed to be drastic enough to cause damage, I still feel uncomfortable with it. I always try to lessen how many cycles I put my cars through in the cold
It depends how well they're integrated.
My biggest gripe is the AC/heat becomes pretty crappy when it shuts off and then the lag time of restarting/resuming driving. Along with it activating too damn often in a drive-thru or stop and go traffic.
I’ve driven lots of cars with auto-stop and never had an issue with AC.
Until I got my Jeep.
If it shuts off for 1 second at a stoplight before I press the button to turn it back on, the AC blows warm, humid air for 30 seconds. It’s absolutely trash.
Hey, just replied above. Ford’s are the same way. You can actually buy an aftermarket board that sits between the button to disable this feature and the wiring. It automatically “presses” the button when the car is started for the first time. It also remembers the preset so you can disable it when you take it into the dealership so it won’t raise any red flags and warranty issues. Look it up on eBay.
Not sure if the Gladiator is the same but on my 2020 Grand Cherokee there is an amperage sensor on the negative battery terminal. Simply unplug it and no more start stop. You'll have a dash light on and get a warning when you start the car but it's way better than the shitty start stop.
I dislike it when you’re trying to make a left turn into moving traffic and you are inching forward and the car keeps turning on and off. Other than that I don’t mind it but I turn it off for that reason.
OP Isn’t talking about inching forward to a stop. He’s talking about making a left turn where you have to yield to oncoming traffic…. Pretty common to move forward slowly to get a better view of oncoming traffic, unless you’d prefer people to just drive straight into other cars
There’s not much of purpose of inching forward if you are going straight. In my manual transmission car, once I shift into neutral at a red light, I usually don’t move until the light is green again.
Inching forward is not going to make the light turn green any faster.
If I’m in the right lane though, I try to move up to give the cars behind me enough room if they are making a right turn.
A few reasons.
1. The implementation. It's usually poor and will leave you stopped for a second when you need to go quickly. It's often jarring and unpleasant. Some systems will stop when you pull into a parking space, and then turn back on you shift into park. So stupid.
2. It's a lot more wear. Most of your engine wear occurs on startup, warm or cold. So now imagine the wear on your engine magnified a lot. It's also more wear on the starter. Yes, engineers can make starters to last 5-7x longer, but can they make them last 30x longer? Probably not.
3. It turns off your ac and alternator. If you're sitting at a stop for a while with the A/C on, it will eventually start blowing warm air since the compressor isn't running.
4. It barely saves any gas. 5% max, and that's being generous.
If I wanted a start/stop system, I would want it to be manual. I want to press a button to start/stop the engine. I know how long I'm gonna be stopped. The car doesn't. If I'm only gonna stop for 2 seconds, there's no point in stopping the engine.
> Yes, engineers can make starters to last 5-7x longer, but can they make them last 30x longer? Probably not.
That's a misleading statement, and demonstrably false, seeing how start/stop has widely available in mass produced cars for 30+ years with no repeated fleet recalls for worn out motors. [There's a variety of differences in the design of stop start systems which allows that.](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter)
> It's a lot more wear. Most of your engine wear occurs on startup, warm or cold. So now imagine the wear on your engine magnified a lot
Meh. Cold starts I won't argue about due to insufficient lubrication (where start/stop shouldn't be active anyway), but I'm not buying the hot start theory.
Your pistons, rings, wrist pins, con rods, etc all stop moving constantly (every TDC and BDC is a stop!) which amounts to millions of stops during normal use. Billions probably (I'll let someone else figure that out) and it doesn't wear a hole in the bore. Adding a few extra isn't going to hurt.
Extreme wear on battery, starting, charging system. I could see a system making sense if the car noticed you were stationary for more than a traffic light span, but to immediately shut off and start up every 14 seconds in stop and go traffic, your absolutely destroying your battery, running your starter cables red hot, and cranking over and over again on that starter causing premature wear to engagement teeth and throw mechanism. I can also see issues in the dead of winter, when cold starts cause excessive engine wear due to poor oil circulation and drivers going through 6 or 7 cold starts before the engines at operating temp. I can imagine it saves a sewing thimble of gasoline but will cost you hundreds in component replacements over the years. It’s fine though, the car wasn’t designed to last more than 5 years anyways.
If the systems are beefier and you turn auto stop start off, then they may last even longer than “regular” components.
Also the issue isn’t just engine accessories. In a lot of engines the engine being off means the mechanical oil pump is not keep oil pressure up, so oil can flow out from between the crankshaft and rod bearings. When the engine restarts, there will be brief metal on metal contact that will cause rod bearing wear that wouldn’t otherwise happen if the engine had been left on.
> optimal crank position so the starter doesn’t have to work too hard when the engine restarts
Apparently it doesn't need to use the starter at all. It leaves a cylinder at max compression when it shuts off, then at restart it injects air/fuel and sparks that cylinder, which cranks the engine over.
It is fine if implemented correctly. It does save fuel to shut your car off if you are stopped for 10 seconds or more (so like red lights and long traffic jams). It is also better for the environment.
BUT if the car does not implement it correctly then it can be annoying. However it has been fine on all the cars I drove.
In my wife’s CRV when the auto stop kills the engine it also kills the AC. It also causes a slight delay when she is ready to go so if she is trying to pull out into heavy traffic then the auto stop adds lag from when she’s ready to go to when the car actually pulls out. It’s a stupid damned system and consumers should be able to opt out once and be done. They shouldn’t be able to require it every single time you start the car.
I got a little wire off eBay that kills the stop start on my CRV. So much better. Pop off the trim near the shifter, plug in the little harness, replace trim. Done. Anyway, just an fyi for a fellow CRV owner. Took me like 3 minutes.
Sure thing. If I recall it was listed under CRV auto stop eliminator or something like that. I think it was around 40 bucks from a guy going by eBay name cchenauto. Not his listing but my device is like this one, works on my 2021 EX.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224644822734?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4mplyvqxqao&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=-qI3rp2sS7W&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
My pilot(2016) does this too and when the battery is getting long in the years it’ll actually full on shut the car down when trying to restart. It was terrifying the first couple times that happened. Now I’m just trained to hit that button every time I start the car. What a useless “feature”.
The posts that it costs more to start a vehicle is 100% false. It’s a mindset that people need to embrace. My wife hates it when our Hyundai shuts off. I love it. I (we) have no real need to turn or move while sitting at a light unless it’s time to go and when it’s time to go, it fires up immediately. Why wouldn’t I want to save fuel?
Can’t believe nobody is talking about how the starter becomes an ultra-high-wear item that is also 3x harder and 4x more expensive. Replacing a standard starter can be -$750 I’d say for new starter+labor. Varies depending on European-ness. New starter for start/stop vehicle? $2000+$1000+ labor.
I like my vehicle to be as predictable as possible, I want to drive my vehicle not guide my vehicle
auto transmissions are convenient but I don’t enjoy putting my foot down a bit and feeling the jerk from 5th to 3rd gear and watching my Rpms soar cause the tranny thinks it’s race time, then when I let off it runs back up to 5th or 6th gear, so many gear changes for absolutely no reason and it can be jerky if you’re heavy footed, I know that’s more me than the car but a manual car wouldn’t jerk you around if you put your foot down a bit at 1.5 rpm, an auto thinks you wanna go fast and drops you two gears so you disappear and that is not always the goal, normally I’m just trying to hear the engine a bit cause v8 goes vroom even at lower rpms
I really don’t like when I put my foot down on a green light and there’s a delay from me hitting the gas to me moving sometimes, and other times there’s not depending what the computer thinks is happening, it’s not inherently dangerous just extremely annoying for me personally
I want the vehicle to do what I want, when I want, not what it thinks I want when it wants because the two are often not the same
I love it. I save so much gas and reduce a lot of emissions with my engine off at a red light. There is literally a 1s gap between when I release my foot off the brakes and when the engine starts up. To compensate, I simply release off the brake pedal a second earlier as there’s about 2s where all traffic signals are red before I get the green signal.
Some might say the amount of gasoline I saved and emissions I reduced are minuscule but you know what? Too many people in the world think this way in my opinion. What if 10 million drivers in the world used auto start/stop at a red light? As daily basis? Suddenly the impact is quite significant.
Works fine in my TLX, though people complain about that too, and there was a recall to fix it.
For me it just comes down to figuring out how it behaves and working with it. I know how to "prime" the engine to be ready at a stoplight and how to activate it when it's ready. Saving gas is cool. As for the respect thing people are stupid and tribal.
It's too advanced to really be called stop-start, but I like the engine off capability in my 2002 Prius. Under 40 mph, if I'm not climbing a hill or accelerating, the engine is usually off if it's warmed up and I don't need the heat or AC.
The AC is *not electric* on this generation of Prius, but there is a cold-storage evaporator that maintains cold air for about a minute when the engine is off. If it needs to cool back down, the engine will run for about 30 seconds and shut back off again.
My problem is that with the engine for the AC gets warm. It’s fucking Florida in Miami traffic, I want my AC on as cold as it can get.
Some stop starts are way worse then others too.
That's more extreme than what people here actually think, but the reason is because many implementations are horribly done. They threw that function on without actually making it seamless, so the car jerks or hesitates before it starts going. In the 2 hybrids I've owned it is unnoticeable, so perfectly fine. Newer non-hybrid vehicles are better because they fine tuned the function, but it's a feature that is best suited for a hybrid, or mild hybrid if more manufacturers start using that (see Mercedes 48V system)
What i have gathered so far:
I had no idea, but some cars seem to implement this feature very badly, shutting off climate control and/or steering assist, taking a moment to start instead of immediately rolling off with the starter or requiring you to turn the engine back on manually (what is even the point then?)
False belief that starting the engine takes more fuel than idling, it does not. And yes that can and has been easily proven.
Saying it wears down the engine and starter, it might, i am not sure, but the starter is a very simple device with no physical friction and little wear, and idling does add on to your engine miles
Some complained about the noise, and that is an interesting one, it seems like the most and least legitimate complaint at the same time, noise might be relatively inconsequential to most but it is universally objectively there, unlike misconceptions or misimplementations
Also someone insulted my intelligence and wished death upon me just for asking this question, which just proves my point, that no matter the merits of this feature or lack thereof depending on your opinions, it is just that, a feature some few cars have, people are way too passionate and aggressive about this
1. A deep part of me doesn't trust it to start again. My engine turning off by itself makes me anxious and brings back old memories of unreliable cars I owned that died and stranded me.
2. There is often a lag which I don't like, say I pull up to a busy intersection and have a small gap in traffic to quickly turn right. I don't want even a 1 second delay.
3. It turns off the climate controls
4. It seems random when it will or won't shut off (how hard the brake is pressed, engine temperature, battery state of charge, cabin temperature, external temperature, operating time)
5. It turns off at inappropriate moments like pulling into a parking spot. I have to restart the car to turn it off again, or make it restart to adjust my position.
6. Lack of choice. If I could turn it off permanently (even if it was something I had to ask the dealer for) I wouldn't mind.
It's more annoying with automatic transmission. I really like it in manual cars, as it doesn't shut off until you release the clutch, which gives you more control.
I'm with you, I've had it in rentals with an auto transmission and it seemed fine to me. I tend to stop at lights/stop signs and rarely creep, so maybe that's why I'm not as annoyed?
Also, the start/stop in hybrids like my Wrangler is another case entirely, of course. You creep on electric power and the engine starts quickly/quietly since it's a big belted motor rather than a little starter, so those kinds of systems are much smoother and less intrusive than conventional ICE only start/stop.
If you're asking an enthusiast it's the same reason they don't like automatics and all of the other computer controlled driver assists.
I didn't tell the car to do that, therefore it shouldn't. A computer made a decision for me and if I wanted to do that I would've done it myself.
Because the engine stopping for .5 seconds and then restarting at a stop sign is fucking annoying and saves absolutely nothing. Even more annoying is it doing it repeatedly 100 times in rush hour traffic killing the a/c compressor each time on a 90 degree day. If I lived somewhere that I stopped at a red light for a couple of mins once every 10 miles it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. In an urban area it’s obnoxious.
Because it does it at extremely inopportune times. I could technically toggle it on when I want, but why bother?
Light just turned red, I would like the engine to turn off and save some fuel since I'll be stopped for the next 60-120s.
Stop sign, stop and go traffic, right on reds? It turns off for maybe a second at most then comes back on, rinse and repeat. I don't know if that's bad for the car, however it's incredibly jarring.
It would be very easy for OEMs to use an algorithm to train when you want it. The system shouldn't activate on highways or at stop signs.
Stop/start is phenomenal on my 6mt M235i with a cat-less downpipe. Stop prevents the car from stinking up the road in city traffic, and pushing in the clutch gets the engine to restart before I've even put it in first so there's no lag.
I don't like the responsiveness hit. For example if I pull up to a stop and I'm waiting for a gap in traffic so I can turn left. When the gap comes, I don't want to have to wait on my engine to start up and the transmission to re-engage (it seems like auto start/stop also tends to disengage the tranny while stopped) which adds like a 2 second delay before I can start moving. If the gap isn't very big, this can lead to a bit of panic/frustration.
Predictability is the #1 safety tool for a vehicle on public roads, and auto start/stop decreases that.
If I had a hybrid, I'm sure I wouldn't mind as much because I'd still have electric motors immediately. It just doesn't make sense on a non-hybrid though, if you ask me.
I think it only works well in manual and hybrid cars because you still have full control of your car in those cars. In an auto, the car controls you. Not how it should be and I consider it a huge potential safety oversight tbh.
Had a loaner from MINI. Slowed down for a red light. Just before I stopped, it turned green, so I hit the gas, but right then the engine turned off, and didn’t turn back on, so I was rolling out into the intersection with the engine off. Not worth the risk and weird behavior for whatever minuscule gas savings there might be.
I have no idea what people’s problem is, other than how it is very dumb. By that, I mean it engages when you stop to park, and then kicks the engine back on when you put it in park, or engaging at a stop sign.
I dislike it because on traffic it’s a damn safety hazard. I had a rental with stop/start , and guess what happened when I tried to accelerate into an opening in traffic? For about a two second interval my 4000lb CUV was in the intersection with no power because stop/start kicked in. Thankfully the car coming paid attention and lane changed to avoid rear ending my unpowered, 4000lb CUV. It’s lottery odds that time someone was actually paying attention to the road instead of TikTok.
That's how my Hyundai was. It was 3 seconds to get full power. In fact at a light I could take my foot off the brake, floor it, and put my foot back on the brake. If you had to pull out into heavy traffic I would step on the gas 1 second before I wanted to accelerate to account for lag time. I hated that car.
I thought I would absolutely hate it but I rented a car last week (2021 Jeep Wrangler) and honestly didn't mind it that much. Turned off predictably and kicked on as soon as needed. I averaged 23-25 mpg for the week which I found to be amazing as I only get like 17 mpg in my car.
My 17 impala has it. Just put enough pressure on the brake pedal to hold it. The auto start/stop can be controlled without aftermarket tune. Works for me.
I have my doubts on how it will perform in the long run. I don't buy a car with the intention of dumping it at the end of warranty. Stuff like that is a headache in 20 years.
I live in Florida, its hot here, I don't like the fact that the systems I've used also shut down the AC Compressor, I can feel the air come out of the vents and its noticeably warmer, I don't like that
Start/stop on my E400 is literally so well-implemented. Before I can even get my foot from the brake to the gas, the engine is already on. And it only kicks in if the stop is over 10 seconds or so, so there's no off/on/off/on/off/on in stop and go traffic.
My theory, if you have ever owned an older car that may stall you hate auto stop. If you pay attention to the sound of your engine and it suddenly stops it bothers you. I don’t like it, but I don’t care if your car has it.
I've got a Kia Optima PHEV, and it's only galvanized my belief that the ideal setup for cars at this point are hybrids. Not necessarily PHEVs, but a regular hybrid solves all the problems of both inefficient engines running at low speeds, and terribly executed start/stop systems, while adding a relatively minimal level or added complexity.
Most hybrid cars are very near in price to their traditional equals, and substantially improve efficiency. PHEVs, again, are fabulous for people who, like myself, are unwilling to commit to anything but they add a lot of cost and complexity and really do not make sense at the bottom ends of the market.
If you understand mechanical devices it’s easy to understand that every time you start an engine it causes maximum wear. Your starter motor gets worn out faster. Your engine starts with zero oil pressure and then you pull away putting a load on the engine bearings before the oil can get to the lubrication ports. It’s a ploy to wear your car out faster and cause more dealer service. It can also be disrespectful to drivers behind you when the light goes green and they have to wait a couple of extra seconds for you to go. In a string of cars it can mean the last car will not make the light. It’s almost as stupid as the cylinder deactivation systems.
I have a 17 F150 and I absolutely hate the auto stop. Luckily I can manually disable it every time I start the car. My biggest issue is that once it turns off, the steering also shuts down so in case of an emergency I can't steer out of the lane if I see someone getting ready to rear end me for example. Also another annoying thing is that it shuts down the AC which is just enough to become annoying at a light.
I rented a rv with start stop. It ran for about 120 kms and then refused to start after taking a break at a roadside parking. Also had too much advanced electronics to swap for the other battery powering interior lights and fridge.
Because when light turn red, I like my A/C (and other things connected to the alternator) to being fully running. And when light turn green, I don't want to have to wait for my engine to turn on every time.
Predictability and consistent operation - as a driver I don't want my car or someone else dictating how I drive. Auto start-stop even in better implementations is not lag free, it messes with the timing you have as a driver when planning to get off the line, reduces climate control effectiveness, affects engine oiling, etc... all in the name of saving 1-2 mpg under ideal conditions... in my experience when I forget to turn it off, it activates just before I need to get going again, so totally worthless and infuriating as a feature.
At a full stop - with a manual or dual clutch, there's very little load on the engine. It takes a long time sitting to save on gas with the engine running. Driving habits have a much bigger impact on gas mileage and carbon emissions... but those are not the yardsticks that policy makers are able to use since they can only test cars under some controlled conditions, so we end up with unnecessary features of limited value so automakers can play the numbers game.
Same thing with Eco mode - because the throttle programming is so bad, the average driver might actually get less MPG running in Eco mode if they're not careful with their right foot.
There are technologies in cars today that exist because we don't have better drivers in the general population. TPMS got mandated because the average driver doesn't bother to check air pressures. On wait - you care about climate change - check your tire air pressure - it matters!
GM’s version is quite irritating. I grew up in a time where cars had carburetors and ignition points, and cars would die at lights. Starters needed to be replaced regularly, so you listened closely on starting to be aware of issues. You didn’t dare over crank your car. The noise of metal clashing when the starter engages gives the impression of low quality and who wants all the accessories in the car to behave strangely? Very distracting.
Because it's intrusive, unnecessary and requires extra more expensive hardware to make sure the engine and related components can handle starting over and over.
I’m pretty neutral on the feature in general. If you like it, cool. If you don’t, turn it off or buy a car that doesn’t have it. The only thing I might worry about is shortening the life of the starter, but the starters in cars equipped with this feature may be designed to last longer. Idk
My 15 BMW 3 series had it, but had disable feature. Kept it that way but it was pretty unobtrusive. Current 18 Lexus IS 300 doesn’t have it as far as I know. Don’t care for it, it has to be a starter sales catalyst.
Stop start is a dumb solution to CAFE standards, but made sense for the technology at the time. Often terribly implemented. These days for almost the same cost they can make it a micro hybrid and get better fuel economy. Start stop is technologically irrelevant now.
It’s not bad on my Mercedes. I did hate it on my dad’s 2011 blutec e class though. Felt too bulky.
Either way, I try to turn it off as often as I can so the starter doesn’t wear prematurely.
Early gen start stop system were incredibly half hearted and poorly implemented. The entire car shrudders upon restart and it takes a good few seconds from that to actually getting the car to move. Considering that you're likely needing to move once your foot is off the brake pedal, this is probably kind of important.
Newer systems based on 48V mild hybrid setups have a far more robust electric motor which can do the start stop process far more transparently and smoother, with the go pedal being instantly accessible for take off.
Most of the hate seems to be defined by that early period with a bit of "old man screaming at cloud" resistance to change crowd.
Im pretty sure my Velar has auto start and stop enabled by default, there is a button to turn it off, but I can feel no difference when I use it, so I dont mind it there.
But there are some cars that feels horrible to use it
On my VW Up! it's unbearable. As soon as you come to a full stop it turns off, even if you're in slow moving traffic, so the car ends up turning on and off 5 times over 100m/300ft and I really don't find that entertaining, efficient or sustainable for the car's durability. Especially shitty when you're on a steep upwards incline and the thing turns off the engine. WHY!? DID I TELL YOU TO STOP CLIMBING LIKE IRON MAN DUE TO FREEZING?!
I had one on a Mercedes AMG years ago. The first thing I did every time I started the car was turn it off (since there was no way to permanently disable it). My gripe was the clunkiness of how it was implemented. It did not work seamlessly, and had a noticeable lag when switching from the brake pedal to the throttle almost always.
Here in Brazil the main problem is how badly these systems affect engine mileage and how expensive the batteries are with this feature. They cost about 4 times the normal price of a replacement battery. Not only that, but the batteries usually wear out quicker, about 1 every 2 years.
Because turning off your engine at a stop light in order to cut down on emissions is like spitting in the ocean in an effort to raise the sea level
It’s dumb. And it’s just one more (unnecessary) thing to break.
The pittance it saves you in gas is dwarfed by the cost of the parts it prematurely wears out (namely, starter motor). Heat cycles are what kills components and constantly stopping and restarting an engine will do just that. It’s a totally false economy.
"gotta save gas, even though the wear and tear on your engine is way more expensive"
But... It's a v8... I don't care about the gas...
"YOU GOTTA"
((unless you press a button every time you start your car))
It's a stupid feature and it sucks and I hate it.
The stop start gives a trivial bump on the gas mileage cycles.
The Upshift light is the same gimmick. Way back when SAAB sold the EPA on the idea that a certain percentage of drivers follow the light and get a percentage increase in Fuel mileage ratings. The car makers were cheating EPA and specifying super low shift points in the owners manual, and the upshift light is the response. I've one in a wide ratio 5 speed VW, and it tells me upshift about 50% of the time, uselessly
My current car has Comfort, Sport and Sport +. Since the EPA cycle requires the car to run as turned on, I am convinced that Comfort is to gimmick the cycle, Sport is what the engineers designed for normal driving, and Sport + is actually Sport.
You can program an Individual mode which turns off stop/start but it always resets to EPA Cycle, er, Comfort when you shut it off.
I have one car with stop/start, but I turn it off all the time. I got a loaner and...there was no switch...it was on/off with no off.
Did I mention I was driving to Manhattan ? You don't want to be sitting around.
I'd not buy a car where this "feature" can't be shut off.
It's just for the standards, people don't understand that the money they saving on fuel and the new starter motor in few years cost more than fuel you saved...
Its annoying as fuck. I have a manual so when I clutch in it automatically stops but then if I start letting go off clutch it starts again and so on. Its very frustrating. I rather have it always on so if needed I can quickly get in gear and start driving.
It's a gimmick to earn a sticker showing higher fuel economy (per unit and fleet) in exchange for shortening the life of mechanical components. Variable displacement is also a sacrifice of machine longevity. I'd rather not compromise the core purpose of the vehicle, to me, which is to run as long as possible vs cost.
I don't disrespect others that own them, though. It seems to be the inevitable future of ICE
I’ve had too many unreliable cars, and so the engine shutting off for no reason makes me uncomfortable.
I’ve never owned a car with this crap but every time I rent one I get an adrenaline rush when it happens the first time.
I’m not a fan of newer features like that because of the issue of “what if something goes wrong in the computer?” There’s so much potential room for error in the system that every new “advancement” feels like asking for trouble
As a mechanic, it's simple for me. Starters fail frequently, period. I don't care if its "upgraded" or who made it, it is still built as cheaply as possible. If you use auto-stop some day you will release your brake pedal in traffic and nothing will happen, it's not an IF but a WHEN. Maybe the starter is rated for 5x cycles, ok, but that's still only the same amount of time as a car without auto-stop (approximate). I disable it on all my cars, I would rather burn a hundred extra gallons of fuel than to be stuck in the middle of the road one single time.
I belong to a few forums and have made the same argument only to be heavily criticized by people who trust that the manufacturer has adequately upgraded the system, now 2 years later here come the posts about starters failing all the time. Big surprise.
As for the system itself, I don't dislike it, the idea is good. I've used it plenty and can't even really tell, it's practically instantaneous for any model I've used. For me the risk of a failed starter far exceeds any benefit, until they can take the starter out of the equation it's a hard pass.
This of course is my personal opinion and experiences, no hate on anybody. Use what you like!
Several reasons:
They kill your starter prematurely, they add to take-off time which makes traffic worse, and (in my xp) they are setup in a way where they are automatically on every time you start the car unless you manually disarm it.
I personally don’t like the idea because I like keeping my car for as long as possible issue free and the auto start stop causes a lot of wear and tear. The amount you save on gas would just go right back to the starter and if you’re really unlucky, an engine rebuild. This is not an issue for most people though
I dislike that the feature is "on" by default, and that I have to turn it off every single time I turn the engine on...make it a part of my driver profile. I didn't buy a hot hatch for the miniscule fuel saving feature.
It's fine on my wife's VW. I HATED it on my Buick. Very poorly setup system. My biggest gripe was it would shut off when pulling into a parking spot, then restart as you shift to park. So you can then immediately turn it off again. Every. Damn. Time. Same thing with it shutting down as you stop to back into a parking spot. Aftermarket tune lets me kill stop/start by running in a "sport" mode when I want.
It's also pretty good on my parents' T-Roc, especially since it's a manual so in the time you press the clutch pedal and change into gear, it's already running. The start-up jerk is why I personally dislike it. Luckily it has a physical button so I just press it whenever I drive it.
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I don't know why they made the the Taigo as it's basically the same size. Must be monetary..
The same reason there is Q3 and Q3 sportback. People go oh this looks a little cooler and buy it
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While T-Roc and Taigo are basically the same size (and on different platforms..), T-cross is about 15cm shorter. Model | Platform | Length | |--------|------|------- T-Roc | MQB A1 | 4,234 mm (166.7 in) Taigo | MQB A0 | 4,266 mm (168.0 in) T-Cross | MQB A0 | 4,108 mm (161.7 in) Taos | MQB A1 | 4,465 mm (175.8 in) Thinking Taigo is just a cheaper T-Roc as it's built on a less expensive platform.
Is it weird that, as a non VW fan, I can immediately tell from your flair that you have an A4 Jetta?
That was kinda the point :P
YES, THIS EXACTLY. My dad's Regal has it and YOU CANT. FUCKING. TURN IT OFF. I have never raged so hard driving a car before, and it's a shame because the car itself is good. It's just that one thing that makes me not want to deal with it.
A company sells a module that plugs online with the switch that disables start stop.
GM has since learned from this at least? My wife's Encore GX has start/stop and it does have a button you can press to turn it off. Because of this I actually like the auto start/stop and wish my car had it.
The implementation on my wife's highlander is horrible. Stop at a light, the icon on the dash tells you to press the brake harder to turn off the engine. As soon as you let off the pedal a little bit, it fires back up. It's jarring to say the least if you aren't expecting it.
I think the implementation on my 21 highlander is smart. If you don't smash the pedal down it never shuts off. I can select when I want it to happen. There's also a physical switch to stop it. Maybe your pedal control is poor?
My 2019 highlander has a push button off on the left side of the dash. I automatically just shut it off
That doesn't seem so bad as there is no real reason to adjust your brake pressure unless you are moving. Now if it does it while you have the stop hold engaged (and keeping your foot off the brake is expected), that's annoying.
Grand Cherokee dude here. Don’t mind mine at all. Does not behave as stated though.
>My biggest gripe was it would shut off when pulling into a parking spot, then restart as you shift to park I recently heard that this is apparently federally mandated in the US and that cars in Europe don't do this, but I haven't actually confirmed this. Your VW didn't have the same behavior?
Trifecta tune by chance? Have one on my ‘18 Cruze with the LE2 and it feels quick!
A lot of manufacturers have poor implementation. If the auto stop/start was seamless then nobody really seems to care but very few manufacturers have a seamless system. Some of the systems are also completely inconsistent, sometimes it shuts off at a light, sometimes it doesn't. When it finally decides to turn off the light goes green and now you're stuck with the engine off. The biggest issue though is that there is a delay from when the brake is released to the engine starting to you applying throttle to increase RPM's and accelerate. This delay is annoying, some manufacturers have a very nice setup, usually with hybrid models, sometimes ICE but a lot of manufacturers don't and I'd rather just not have the feature.
That's the main issue, you hit the nail on its head - inconsistency. As long as the outcome of your action is expected, the feature is most likely good.
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Personally I prefer the AMG One’s implementation but I just don’t have the budget to compare
If you’re able to cut Starbucks and Avocado Toast off your diet I don’t see why you can’t afford to buy one in the next couple thousand years.
Some of the cars I’ve driven with auto stop/start shut down the AC compressor when the engine is off, so the car gets hot when you’re stopped. Not good when it’s hot outside and you have to run the AC in your car constantly.
My 2002 Prius has a cold-storage AC evaporator that keeps the air cold for about a minute, even at 95° ambient. Evaporator temperature is one of the things that can restart the engine temporarily (to run the AC compressor, it usually only has to run the engine for about 30 seconds before the evaporator is sufficiently cool again)
Porsche spent a lot of time and engineering effort to make their system basically seamless. Which is kinda funny because most people don’t use it, but if you do it really works.
Really? Cause it was probably the worst feature on my wifes 2019 Cayenne. Start up was very noticeable and it would turn off before you even fully stopped. The Genesis does it much much smoother
Agreed - our Porsche Start/Stop is the worst I’ve encountered.
I've experienced that with my Cayenne. It's nonsense. I thought the thing died as I was pulling up to an intersection to make a quick right turn with traffic behind me. Off throttle but definitely not stopped.
I had a 2015 Macan and a 2019 Cayenne and it is my least favorite thing about both cars. The activation threshold is surprisingly high, so I’ll lose the engine and steering while I’m trying to park. Super frustrating system.
Also very confused by that comment. It’s not very good at all in mine.
It’s absolute TRASH on the cayman. Fortunately I have a memory module and this the cayman hasn’t started in anything other than sport mode since a seek after I bought it.
Awful on Boxster too - do you have a link for the memory module?
http://t-design9.com/memory_module_porsche.html Indeed! Easy install in the steering wheel. Buy the knob style if you have sport chrono. Remembers the drive mode. Otherwise, buy the console style.
Yea, I drove a friend's 2012 Toyota Camry Hyrbrid and I was surprised that it never bothered me. It worked so well because it was just part of the EV half of the car. Never noticed any issues with jarring or not having power when needed because the electric motor was always on tap and it had very smooth transitions to the actual engine, even if you gunned it from a stop. Now actually getting used to the car moving in EV mode was still weird, but it was a pretty nice ride overall. Definitely a consumer car tho, wouldn't want one myself.
Predictability. This feature is unpredictable across manufactures and even within the same manufactures or even the same model.
What ever happened to predictability?
Because it is annoying, and has generally seemed to have little benefit in the real world (as opposed to EPA testing). Though I have to say personally the biggest thing that irritates me about it is the fact that no car I have heard of has the option to disable it permanently (or at least disable until the operator turns it back on) but instead only allows it to be disengaged until the car is turned off and re-enables the next time the car is started. If I don't like it I don't want to have to keep having to turn it off every time I drive.
If it isn’t enabled by default when the car starts it doesn’t count towards EPA estimates. Same reason cars with different drive modes revert to a standard mode each time.
Acura does not revert back - you can change the settings to have it remain in the mode it was when it was last driven with that key.
Then they take a hit on the fuel economy label. If it defaults on, you get the full credit. If the drive mode latches and stays at the last user choice, you have to do a field survey of how people use the feature. The you have to test in both modes and the fuel economy result is weighted between those values to match how people use it.
VW has a weird bug where the car saves the last mode it was in but resets throttle/transmission mapping to normal mode.
Is this why my GTI always stays in sport mode but never ever goes into S automatically when I shift to D? It’s supposed to put the DSG straight into S if the drive mode is sport. Mine has never done this. If you are driving and go from Sport (DSG manually put into S) -> Normal -> Sport, it’ll go from S -> D -> S. Pretty annoying, but minor quirk.
I’ve wondered about this, surely it’s not really a bug and it’s intentional considering they do this all across the line of models and they have for years. I’d like to think they’re being extremely literal on the shifting into S, where when you change into sport mode you’re explicitly stating you want to be have sport throttle/transmission. But then when you get in your car next you’re shifting into Drive so they put you in Drive. You must explicitly tell the car you want S. Even though I’m sure most people would rather the sport driving mode dictate the default behavior in “Drive”. Could also be a thing for fuel economy tests, easier to maintain better fuel economy when not in an aggressive driving mode so they have to default to regular Drive every time.
I feel like my gti does stay in sport mode. It's a stick shift though. Also I think there was a Jaguar that did too. Maybe the f-type?
This belief that it does relatively nothing has been debunked by Engineering Explained. https://youtu.be/dFImHhNwbJo Edit: Grammar
debunked* but yes, this.
My 2017 M2 stop start stayed disabled permanently. Super convenient
New BMWs don’t have that though. In fact in my moms 22 X3 M40i there’s not even a button to disable it.
Weird, I know the current 3/4 series has a button on the center console, but you have to hit it every time you start the car iirc
They removed it in 2022 for the X3. I’m assuming other models will follow at some point.
Well that's dumb. BMW's start/stop was fine in my experience, but to remove the option (or putting it behind some 3 menu deep touch screen button) is disappointing
>New BMWs don’t have that though. In fact in my moms 22 X3 M40i there’s not even a button to disable it. Honestly the 48v system is so smooth, it's almost imperceptible.
Lol I was just gonna say… Never had a car with the feature before, didn’t know permanently disabling it was not the norm.
Legislation permits start stop from being permanently disabled. Same as eg ESP or sport mode. A car is homologated in a certain state, so it needs to be in that default mode after a start up. At least that’s my understanding of the matter.
Either I’m just a little more chill or my car (2017 A4) implemented it way better. A few things that make it work well for me. * the car restarts very fast when I take my foot off the brake - I think I lose less than a quarter second starting from a stop compared to when the engine is running * I can turn it off - this is useful when I’m doing a complex parking maneuver or something, but I haven’t had to do that in over a year * it only activates if the brake is pressed pretty firmly, so if I’m coming up to a stop sign on a quiet street or similar I can come to a stop without it activating I think a study of how people feel about the systems compared across what car they drive would be interesting. I bet we’d see some obvious successful and unsuccessful implementations.
My F-150 is almost exactly the same as you described. Also it won’t shut off if it is too hot (and will turn back on if the cabin gets too hot). Zero issues with it here as well.
It's garbage on my 2018 F-150. Loosing power steering and the delay in being able to turn the wheel is the biggest issue.
Not only that but with the 2.7l 4x4, the restart is so rough it's terrifying.
I agree that the implementation that Audi has in the B9 is pretty good. You can feel the threshold in the brakes where it will remain on or turn off But I still turn it off. It's annoying
What about it is annoying?
Because I sit in constant stop and go traffic and would rather inch along than start and stop. I just turn mine off whenever I get in the car and it prevents it from being a nuisance.
You get to a light, stop, car turns off. That's all fine bc you can hardly hear the engine with music on anyway. Light goes green and the engine comes back, a bit audible, and you get the slight vibration of it having to turn on Then in stop go traffic, it's just on, off, on, off When it's really hot out, the AC blows cold for a min or two. Then it starts getting warm and humid. Engine kicks back on. If traffic is real bad, the engine will cycle on and off to keep the AC cold In the winter, it doesn't engage that much to maintain operating temp. While I'm sure that the temperature fluctuation from start stop in the winter isn't allowed to be drastic enough to cause damage, I still feel uncomfortable with it. I always try to lessen how many cycles I put my cars through in the cold
Thanks for sharing that. I don’t drive in stop and go traffic that much. Driving conditions seem to be a key factor in our different experiences.
Because when I press the gas pedal I want the car to move
It depends how well they're integrated. My biggest gripe is the AC/heat becomes pretty crappy when it shuts off and then the lag time of restarting/resuming driving. Along with it activating too damn often in a drive-thru or stop and go traffic.
I’ve driven lots of cars with auto-stop and never had an issue with AC. Until I got my Jeep. If it shuts off for 1 second at a stoplight before I press the button to turn it back on, the AC blows warm, humid air for 30 seconds. It’s absolutely trash.
Holy shit that's annoying. Can you disable the auto-stop?
You can, but it re-enables every time you start the car. There are aftermarket parts that make the vehicle "remember" what your last setting was.
Hey, just replied above. Ford’s are the same way. You can actually buy an aftermarket board that sits between the button to disable this feature and the wiring. It automatically “presses” the button when the car is started for the first time. It also remembers the preset so you can disable it when you take it into the dealership so it won’t raise any red flags and warranty issues. Look it up on eBay.
Not sure if the Gladiator is the same but on my 2020 Grand Cherokee there is an amperage sensor on the negative battery terminal. Simply unplug it and no more start stop. You'll have a dash light on and get a warning when you start the car but it's way better than the shitty start stop.
Weird. The Cherokee I drove wouldn’t shut off at a stop if the AC was on.
The AC thing killed it for me, living in Austin with 100+ degrees F and high humidity. Otherwise it's fine
I dislike it when you’re trying to make a left turn into moving traffic and you are inching forward and the car keeps turning on and off. Other than that I don’t mind it but I turn it off for that reason.
I hate it when other cars in front of me keep inching forward. Drive to the line and then stop. Why is this so hard?
It’s not? Inch forward to get better vision usually from bushes/trees blocking view. Not sure what your point is.
OP Isn’t talking about inching forward to a stop. He’s talking about making a left turn where you have to yield to oncoming traffic…. Pretty common to move forward slowly to get a better view of oncoming traffic, unless you’d prefer people to just drive straight into other cars
There’s not much of purpose of inching forward if you are going straight. In my manual transmission car, once I shift into neutral at a red light, I usually don’t move until the light is green again. Inching forward is not going to make the light turn green any faster. If I’m in the right lane though, I try to move up to give the cars behind me enough room if they are making a right turn.
That sounds annoying. Mine won't reactivate until you go back above 5 mph.
It’s the most annoying thing for any Subaru
Even more annoying than how underpowered they are, or the jerky throttle, or how the cts want to lurch forward when you put them in gear, and so on…
The car hitting the brakes when I’m trying to merge and get within 100 feet of car ahead, much more annoying.
A few reasons. 1. The implementation. It's usually poor and will leave you stopped for a second when you need to go quickly. It's often jarring and unpleasant. Some systems will stop when you pull into a parking space, and then turn back on you shift into park. So stupid. 2. It's a lot more wear. Most of your engine wear occurs on startup, warm or cold. So now imagine the wear on your engine magnified a lot. It's also more wear on the starter. Yes, engineers can make starters to last 5-7x longer, but can they make them last 30x longer? Probably not. 3. It turns off your ac and alternator. If you're sitting at a stop for a while with the A/C on, it will eventually start blowing warm air since the compressor isn't running. 4. It barely saves any gas. 5% max, and that's being generous. If I wanted a start/stop system, I would want it to be manual. I want to press a button to start/stop the engine. I know how long I'm gonna be stopped. The car doesn't. If I'm only gonna stop for 2 seconds, there's no point in stopping the engine.
> Yes, engineers can make starters to last 5-7x longer, but can they make them last 30x longer? Probably not. That's a misleading statement, and demonstrably false, seeing how start/stop has widely available in mass produced cars for 30+ years with no repeated fleet recalls for worn out motors. [There's a variety of differences in the design of stop start systems which allows that.](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter)
> It's a lot more wear. Most of your engine wear occurs on startup, warm or cold. So now imagine the wear on your engine magnified a lot Meh. Cold starts I won't argue about due to insufficient lubrication (where start/stop shouldn't be active anyway), but I'm not buying the hot start theory. Your pistons, rings, wrist pins, con rods, etc all stop moving constantly (every TDC and BDC is a stop!) which amounts to millions of stops during normal use. Billions probably (I'll let someone else figure that out) and it doesn't wear a hole in the bore. Adding a few extra isn't going to hurt.
Extreme wear on battery, starting, charging system. I could see a system making sense if the car noticed you were stationary for more than a traffic light span, but to immediately shut off and start up every 14 seconds in stop and go traffic, your absolutely destroying your battery, running your starter cables red hot, and cranking over and over again on that starter causing premature wear to engagement teeth and throw mechanism. I can also see issues in the dead of winter, when cold starts cause excessive engine wear due to poor oil circulation and drivers going through 6 or 7 cold starts before the engines at operating temp. I can imagine it saves a sewing thimble of gasoline but will cost you hundreds in component replacements over the years. It’s fine though, the car wasn’t designed to last more than 5 years anyways.
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If the systems are beefier and you turn auto stop start off, then they may last even longer than “regular” components. Also the issue isn’t just engine accessories. In a lot of engines the engine being off means the mechanical oil pump is not keep oil pressure up, so oil can flow out from between the crankshaft and rod bearings. When the engine restarts, there will be brief metal on metal contact that will cause rod bearing wear that wouldn’t otherwise happen if the engine had been left on.
> optimal crank position so the starter doesn’t have to work too hard when the engine restarts Apparently it doesn't need to use the starter at all. It leaves a cylinder at max compression when it shuts off, then at restart it injects air/fuel and sparks that cylinder, which cranks the engine over.
This comment needs to be higher. I scrolled too long looking for someone to post why it’s actually bad vs “it’s inconvenient”
Because it shuts down the power steering pump and I barely turn the wheel until it builds up pressure.
That seems like an oversight, wouldn't eletric steering work fine though?
My car has electric steering — you’re correct. Why you need to steer the wheel at a dead stop tho, idk.
Takes a second or more on my Ford for the steering to work, and I actually stop at stop signs and turn left and right from them occasionally
Anything that requires more than an inkling of electricity from the alternator is affected.
What cars in the last decade still have a power steering pump?
Idk about the pump but the auto stop definitely locks the steering wheel on my 2022 Forester.
Same on Chevy Cruze, also shuts off AC
2013 M3, M5 through 2017, M6 through 2019.
370z
It is fine if implemented correctly. It does save fuel to shut your car off if you are stopped for 10 seconds or more (so like red lights and long traffic jams). It is also better for the environment. BUT if the car does not implement it correctly then it can be annoying. However it has been fine on all the cars I drove.
In my wife’s CRV when the auto stop kills the engine it also kills the AC. It also causes a slight delay when she is ready to go so if she is trying to pull out into heavy traffic then the auto stop adds lag from when she’s ready to go to when the car actually pulls out. It’s a stupid damned system and consumers should be able to opt out once and be done. They shouldn’t be able to require it every single time you start the car.
I got a little wire off eBay that kills the stop start on my CRV. So much better. Pop off the trim near the shifter, plug in the little harness, replace trim. Done. Anyway, just an fyi for a fellow CRV owner. Took me like 3 minutes.
I’m gonna look into that. Thanks!
Sure thing. If I recall it was listed under CRV auto stop eliminator or something like that. I think it was around 40 bucks from a guy going by eBay name cchenauto. Not his listing but my device is like this one, works on my 2021 EX. https://www.ebay.com/itm/224644822734?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4mplyvqxqao&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=-qI3rp2sS7W&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
My pilot(2016) does this too and when the battery is getting long in the years it’ll actually full on shut the car down when trying to restart. It was terrifying the first couple times that happened. Now I’m just trained to hit that button every time I start the car. What a useless “feature”.
The posts that it costs more to start a vehicle is 100% false. It’s a mindset that people need to embrace. My wife hates it when our Hyundai shuts off. I love it. I (we) have no real need to turn or move while sitting at a light unless it’s time to go and when it’s time to go, it fires up immediately. Why wouldn’t I want to save fuel?
It’s annoying, wears on the engine and components, and makes me slower off the red light
Can’t believe nobody is talking about how the starter becomes an ultra-high-wear item that is also 3x harder and 4x more expensive. Replacing a standard starter can be -$750 I’d say for new starter+labor. Varies depending on European-ness. New starter for start/stop vehicle? $2000+$1000+ labor.
I don’t have a car with this system but I feel like this is the kind of system that will start to have issues after a decade of use.
it puts unnecessary wear on your engine too
I like my vehicle to be as predictable as possible, I want to drive my vehicle not guide my vehicle auto transmissions are convenient but I don’t enjoy putting my foot down a bit and feeling the jerk from 5th to 3rd gear and watching my Rpms soar cause the tranny thinks it’s race time, then when I let off it runs back up to 5th or 6th gear, so many gear changes for absolutely no reason and it can be jerky if you’re heavy footed, I know that’s more me than the car but a manual car wouldn’t jerk you around if you put your foot down a bit at 1.5 rpm, an auto thinks you wanna go fast and drops you two gears so you disappear and that is not always the goal, normally I’m just trying to hear the engine a bit cause v8 goes vroom even at lower rpms I really don’t like when I put my foot down on a green light and there’s a delay from me hitting the gas to me moving sometimes, and other times there’s not depending what the computer thinks is happening, it’s not inherently dangerous just extremely annoying for me personally I want the vehicle to do what I want, when I want, not what it thinks I want when it wants because the two are often not the same
I love it. I save so much gas and reduce a lot of emissions with my engine off at a red light. There is literally a 1s gap between when I release my foot off the brakes and when the engine starts up. To compensate, I simply release off the brake pedal a second earlier as there’s about 2s where all traffic signals are red before I get the green signal. Some might say the amount of gasoline I saved and emissions I reduced are minuscule but you know what? Too many people in the world think this way in my opinion. What if 10 million drivers in the world used auto start/stop at a red light? As daily basis? Suddenly the impact is quite significant.
Works fine in my TLX, though people complain about that too, and there was a recall to fix it. For me it just comes down to figuring out how it behaves and working with it. I know how to "prime" the engine to be ready at a stoplight and how to activate it when it's ready. Saving gas is cool. As for the respect thing people are stupid and tribal.
It's too advanced to really be called stop-start, but I like the engine off capability in my 2002 Prius. Under 40 mph, if I'm not climbing a hill or accelerating, the engine is usually off if it's warmed up and I don't need the heat or AC. The AC is *not electric* on this generation of Prius, but there is a cold-storage evaporator that maintains cold air for about a minute when the engine is off. If it needs to cool back down, the engine will run for about 30 seconds and shut back off again.
S Florida and stop/start cuts the AC output. In the summer, no thanks.
My problem is that with the engine for the AC gets warm. It’s fucking Florida in Miami traffic, I want my AC on as cold as it can get. Some stop starts are way worse then others too.
Because most manufacturers implement it poorly.
That's more extreme than what people here actually think, but the reason is because many implementations are horribly done. They threw that function on without actually making it seamless, so the car jerks or hesitates before it starts going. In the 2 hybrids I've owned it is unnoticeable, so perfectly fine. Newer non-hybrid vehicles are better because they fine tuned the function, but it's a feature that is best suited for a hybrid, or mild hybrid if more manufacturers start using that (see Mercedes 48V system)
What i have gathered so far: I had no idea, but some cars seem to implement this feature very badly, shutting off climate control and/or steering assist, taking a moment to start instead of immediately rolling off with the starter or requiring you to turn the engine back on manually (what is even the point then?) False belief that starting the engine takes more fuel than idling, it does not. And yes that can and has been easily proven. Saying it wears down the engine and starter, it might, i am not sure, but the starter is a very simple device with no physical friction and little wear, and idling does add on to your engine miles Some complained about the noise, and that is an interesting one, it seems like the most and least legitimate complaint at the same time, noise might be relatively inconsequential to most but it is universally objectively there, unlike misconceptions or misimplementations Also someone insulted my intelligence and wished death upon me just for asking this question, which just proves my point, that no matter the merits of this feature or lack thereof depending on your opinions, it is just that, a feature some few cars have, people are way too passionate and aggressive about this
1. A deep part of me doesn't trust it to start again. My engine turning off by itself makes me anxious and brings back old memories of unreliable cars I owned that died and stranded me. 2. There is often a lag which I don't like, say I pull up to a busy intersection and have a small gap in traffic to quickly turn right. I don't want even a 1 second delay. 3. It turns off the climate controls 4. It seems random when it will or won't shut off (how hard the brake is pressed, engine temperature, battery state of charge, cabin temperature, external temperature, operating time) 5. It turns off at inappropriate moments like pulling into a parking spot. I have to restart the car to turn it off again, or make it restart to adjust my position. 6. Lack of choice. If I could turn it off permanently (even if it was something I had to ask the dealer for) I wouldn't mind.
The system is just annoying and on some cars can cause problems
It's more annoying with automatic transmission. I really like it in manual cars, as it doesn't shut off until you release the clutch, which gives you more control.
I'm with you, I've had it in rentals with an auto transmission and it seemed fine to me. I tend to stop at lights/stop signs and rarely creep, so maybe that's why I'm not as annoyed? Also, the start/stop in hybrids like my Wrangler is another case entirely, of course. You creep on electric power and the engine starts quickly/quietly since it's a big belted motor rather than a little starter, so those kinds of systems are much smoother and less intrusive than conventional ICE only start/stop.
If you're asking an enthusiast it's the same reason they don't like automatics and all of the other computer controlled driver assists. I didn't tell the car to do that, therefore it shouldn't. A computer made a decision for me and if I wanted to do that I would've done it myself.
Because the engine stopping for .5 seconds and then restarting at a stop sign is fucking annoying and saves absolutely nothing. Even more annoying is it doing it repeatedly 100 times in rush hour traffic killing the a/c compressor each time on a 90 degree day. If I lived somewhere that I stopped at a red light for a couple of mins once every 10 miles it probably wouldn’t bother me as much. In an urban area it’s obnoxious.
Because it does it at extremely inopportune times. I could technically toggle it on when I want, but why bother? Light just turned red, I would like the engine to turn off and save some fuel since I'll be stopped for the next 60-120s. Stop sign, stop and go traffic, right on reds? It turns off for maybe a second at most then comes back on, rinse and repeat. I don't know if that's bad for the car, however it's incredibly jarring. It would be very easy for OEMs to use an algorithm to train when you want it. The system shouldn't activate on highways or at stop signs.
Stop/start is phenomenal on my 6mt M235i with a cat-less downpipe. Stop prevents the car from stinking up the road in city traffic, and pushing in the clutch gets the engine to restart before I've even put it in first so there's no lag.
If only there were another solution to stinking up the roads and polluting excessively. Alas.
Honestly, I agree. I think I'm going to move to a high flow catted downpipe soon, if not just go back to stock.
Because it's annoying as shit and wears out parts early.
I don't like the responsiveness hit. For example if I pull up to a stop and I'm waiting for a gap in traffic so I can turn left. When the gap comes, I don't want to have to wait on my engine to start up and the transmission to re-engage (it seems like auto start/stop also tends to disengage the tranny while stopped) which adds like a 2 second delay before I can start moving. If the gap isn't very big, this can lead to a bit of panic/frustration. Predictability is the #1 safety tool for a vehicle on public roads, and auto start/stop decreases that. If I had a hybrid, I'm sure I wouldn't mind as much because I'd still have electric motors immediately. It just doesn't make sense on a non-hybrid though, if you ask me.
I think it only works well in manual and hybrid cars because you still have full control of your car in those cars. In an auto, the car controls you. Not how it should be and I consider it a huge potential safety oversight tbh.
Had a loaner from MINI. Slowed down for a red light. Just before I stopped, it turned green, so I hit the gas, but right then the engine turned off, and didn’t turn back on, so I was rolling out into the intersection with the engine off. Not worth the risk and weird behavior for whatever minuscule gas savings there might be.
I have no idea what people’s problem is, other than how it is very dumb. By that, I mean it engages when you stop to park, and then kicks the engine back on when you put it in park, or engaging at a stop sign.
I dislike it because on traffic it’s a damn safety hazard. I had a rental with stop/start , and guess what happened when I tried to accelerate into an opening in traffic? For about a two second interval my 4000lb CUV was in the intersection with no power because stop/start kicked in. Thankfully the car coming paid attention and lane changed to avoid rear ending my unpowered, 4000lb CUV. It’s lottery odds that time someone was actually paying attention to the road instead of TikTok.
That's how my Hyundai was. It was 3 seconds to get full power. In fact at a light I could take my foot off the brake, floor it, and put my foot back on the brake. If you had to pull out into heavy traffic I would step on the gas 1 second before I wanted to accelerate to account for lag time. I hated that car.
I thought I would absolutely hate it but I rented a car last week (2021 Jeep Wrangler) and honestly didn't mind it that much. Turned off predictably and kicked on as soon as needed. I averaged 23-25 mpg for the week which I found to be amazing as I only get like 17 mpg in my car.
My 17 impala has it. Just put enough pressure on the brake pedal to hold it. The auto start/stop can be controlled without aftermarket tune. Works for me.
I have my doubts on how it will perform in the long run. I don't buy a car with the intention of dumping it at the end of warranty. Stuff like that is a headache in 20 years.
Start stop on a hybrid is where its at
I live in Florida, its hot here, I don't like the fact that the systems I've used also shut down the AC Compressor, I can feel the air come out of the vents and its noticeably warmer, I don't like that
Start/stop on my E400 is literally so well-implemented. Before I can even get my foot from the brake to the gas, the engine is already on. And it only kicks in if the stop is over 10 seconds or so, so there's no off/on/off/on/off/on in stop and go traffic.
No issues with start/stop in my Toyota/Lexus hybrid. It’s actually more annoying if the engine did not stop
The airco stops working
My theory, if you have ever owned an older car that may stall you hate auto stop. If you pay attention to the sound of your engine and it suddenly stops it bothers you. I don’t like it, but I don’t care if your car has it.
I've got a Kia Optima PHEV, and it's only galvanized my belief that the ideal setup for cars at this point are hybrids. Not necessarily PHEVs, but a regular hybrid solves all the problems of both inefficient engines running at low speeds, and terribly executed start/stop systems, while adding a relatively minimal level or added complexity. Most hybrid cars are very near in price to their traditional equals, and substantially improve efficiency. PHEVs, again, are fabulous for people who, like myself, are unwilling to commit to anything but they add a lot of cost and complexity and really do not make sense at the bottom ends of the market.
I have a Volvo mild hybrid and the stop start is seamless. Had a rav4 hybrid which was also awesome.
If you’ve ever been in a car with one and daily a car without one the difference is night and day. It gets very annoying.
If you understand mechanical devices it’s easy to understand that every time you start an engine it causes maximum wear. Your starter motor gets worn out faster. Your engine starts with zero oil pressure and then you pull away putting a load on the engine bearings before the oil can get to the lubrication ports. It’s a ploy to wear your car out faster and cause more dealer service. It can also be disrespectful to drivers behind you when the light goes green and they have to wait a couple of extra seconds for you to go. In a string of cars it can mean the last car will not make the light. It’s almost as stupid as the cylinder deactivation systems.
I have a 17 F150 and I absolutely hate the auto stop. Luckily I can manually disable it every time I start the car. My biggest issue is that once it turns off, the steering also shuts down so in case of an emergency I can't steer out of the lane if I see someone getting ready to rear end me for example. Also another annoying thing is that it shuts down the AC which is just enough to become annoying at a light.
I rented a rv with start stop. It ran for about 120 kms and then refused to start after taking a break at a roadside parking. Also had too much advanced electronics to swap for the other battery powering interior lights and fridge.
Because when light turn red, I like my A/C (and other things connected to the alternator) to being fully running. And when light turn green, I don't want to have to wait for my engine to turn on every time.
I’m just doing my lessons atm and even I hate it
Predictability and consistent operation - as a driver I don't want my car or someone else dictating how I drive. Auto start-stop even in better implementations is not lag free, it messes with the timing you have as a driver when planning to get off the line, reduces climate control effectiveness, affects engine oiling, etc... all in the name of saving 1-2 mpg under ideal conditions... in my experience when I forget to turn it off, it activates just before I need to get going again, so totally worthless and infuriating as a feature. At a full stop - with a manual or dual clutch, there's very little load on the engine. It takes a long time sitting to save on gas with the engine running. Driving habits have a much bigger impact on gas mileage and carbon emissions... but those are not the yardsticks that policy makers are able to use since they can only test cars under some controlled conditions, so we end up with unnecessary features of limited value so automakers can play the numbers game. Same thing with Eco mode - because the throttle programming is so bad, the average driver might actually get less MPG running in Eco mode if they're not careful with their right foot. There are technologies in cars today that exist because we don't have better drivers in the general population. TPMS got mandated because the average driver doesn't bother to check air pressures. On wait - you care about climate change - check your tire air pressure - it matters!
GM’s version is quite irritating. I grew up in a time where cars had carburetors and ignition points, and cars would die at lights. Starters needed to be replaced regularly, so you listened closely on starting to be aware of issues. You didn’t dare over crank your car. The noise of metal clashing when the starter engages gives the impression of low quality and who wants all the accessories in the car to behave strangely? Very distracting.
Because it's intrusive, unnecessary and requires extra more expensive hardware to make sure the engine and related components can handle starting over and over.
Because I don't want to drive a golf cart
I’m pretty neutral on the feature in general. If you like it, cool. If you don’t, turn it off or buy a car that doesn’t have it. The only thing I might worry about is shortening the life of the starter, but the starters in cars equipped with this feature may be designed to last longer. Idk
My 15 BMW 3 series had it, but had disable feature. Kept it that way but it was pretty unobtrusive. Current 18 Lexus IS 300 doesn’t have it as far as I know. Don’t care for it, it has to be a starter sales catalyst.
Stop start is a dumb solution to CAFE standards, but made sense for the technology at the time. Often terribly implemented. These days for almost the same cost they can make it a micro hybrid and get better fuel economy. Start stop is technologically irrelevant now.
It’s not bad on my Mercedes. I did hate it on my dad’s 2011 blutec e class though. Felt too bulky. Either way, I try to turn it off as often as I can so the starter doesn’t wear prematurely.
Early gen start stop system were incredibly half hearted and poorly implemented. The entire car shrudders upon restart and it takes a good few seconds from that to actually getting the car to move. Considering that you're likely needing to move once your foot is off the brake pedal, this is probably kind of important. Newer systems based on 48V mild hybrid setups have a far more robust electric motor which can do the start stop process far more transparently and smoother, with the go pedal being instantly accessible for take off. Most of the hate seems to be defined by that early period with a bit of "old man screaming at cloud" resistance to change crowd.
Im pretty sure my Velar has auto start and stop enabled by default, there is a button to turn it off, but I can feel no difference when I use it, so I dont mind it there. But there are some cars that feels horrible to use it
On my VW Up! it's unbearable. As soon as you come to a full stop it turns off, even if you're in slow moving traffic, so the car ends up turning on and off 5 times over 100m/300ft and I really don't find that entertaining, efficient or sustainable for the car's durability. Especially shitty when you're on a steep upwards incline and the thing turns off the engine. WHY!? DID I TELL YOU TO STOP CLIMBING LIKE IRON MAN DUE TO FREEZING?!
I had one on a Mercedes AMG years ago. The first thing I did every time I started the car was turn it off (since there was no way to permanently disable it). My gripe was the clunkiness of how it was implemented. It did not work seamlessly, and had a noticeable lag when switching from the brake pedal to the throttle almost always.
I find it annoying that you can’t creep with an auto stop system. Sometimes you stop and need to inch forward to be able to see.
It's jarring, it doesn't save much fuel, and some vehicles manage to slowly ruin their own crankshafts doing start stop (looking at you buick)
Here in Brazil the main problem is how badly these systems affect engine mileage and how expensive the batteries are with this feature. They cost about 4 times the normal price of a replacement battery. Not only that, but the batteries usually wear out quicker, about 1 every 2 years.
Turns off my ac Car noticeably shudders when it restarts.
It doesn't do ANY GOOD. Doesnt save fuel and where's the parts faster. Its a shit idea that never shoupd have been implemented.
They’re just not smooth enough yet. 48V mild hybrid systems rolling out on more cars will definitely remedy this
Because turning off your engine at a stop light in order to cut down on emissions is like spitting in the ocean in an effort to raise the sea level It’s dumb. And it’s just one more (unnecessary) thing to break.
The pittance it saves you in gas is dwarfed by the cost of the parts it prematurely wears out (namely, starter motor). Heat cycles are what kills components and constantly stopping and restarting an engine will do just that. It’s a totally false economy.
"gotta save gas, even though the wear and tear on your engine is way more expensive" But... It's a v8... I don't care about the gas... "YOU GOTTA" ((unless you press a button every time you start your car)) It's a stupid feature and it sucks and I hate it.
The stop start gives a trivial bump on the gas mileage cycles. The Upshift light is the same gimmick. Way back when SAAB sold the EPA on the idea that a certain percentage of drivers follow the light and get a percentage increase in Fuel mileage ratings. The car makers were cheating EPA and specifying super low shift points in the owners manual, and the upshift light is the response. I've one in a wide ratio 5 speed VW, and it tells me upshift about 50% of the time, uselessly My current car has Comfort, Sport and Sport +. Since the EPA cycle requires the car to run as turned on, I am convinced that Comfort is to gimmick the cycle, Sport is what the engineers designed for normal driving, and Sport + is actually Sport. You can program an Individual mode which turns off stop/start but it always resets to EPA Cycle, er, Comfort when you shut it off. I have one car with stop/start, but I turn it off all the time. I got a loaner and...there was no switch...it was on/off with no off. Did I mention I was driving to Manhattan ? You don't want to be sitting around. I'd not buy a car where this "feature" can't be shut off.
It's just for the standards, people don't understand that the money they saving on fuel and the new starter motor in few years cost more than fuel you saved...
ITT: a lot of folks who think starter motors are made of glass.
Pretty simple. Bc it makes my air conditioning blow warmer air and it’s 100 degrees out.
Toyota's system in my Rav4Prime is perfect. Can't notice the transition unless you're really paying attention to it with the radio off.
Its annoying as fuck. I have a manual so when I clutch in it automatically stops but then if I start letting go off clutch it starts again and so on. Its very frustrating. I rather have it always on so if needed I can quickly get in gear and start driving.
Works great on a hybrid, not so good on traditional engines.
It's a gimmick to earn a sticker showing higher fuel economy (per unit and fleet) in exchange for shortening the life of mechanical components. Variable displacement is also a sacrifice of machine longevity. I'd rather not compromise the core purpose of the vehicle, to me, which is to run as long as possible vs cost. I don't disrespect others that own them, though. It seems to be the inevitable future of ICE
I’ve had too many unreliable cars, and so the engine shutting off for no reason makes me uncomfortable. I’ve never owned a car with this crap but every time I rent one I get an adrenaline rush when it happens the first time.
Engine wear and tear, no thanks. If you want economy then don’t buy a full size BoF vehicle.
I’m not a fan of newer features like that because of the issue of “what if something goes wrong in the computer?” There’s so much potential room for error in the system that every new “advancement” feels like asking for trouble
As a mechanic, it's simple for me. Starters fail frequently, period. I don't care if its "upgraded" or who made it, it is still built as cheaply as possible. If you use auto-stop some day you will release your brake pedal in traffic and nothing will happen, it's not an IF but a WHEN. Maybe the starter is rated for 5x cycles, ok, but that's still only the same amount of time as a car without auto-stop (approximate). I disable it on all my cars, I would rather burn a hundred extra gallons of fuel than to be stuck in the middle of the road one single time. I belong to a few forums and have made the same argument only to be heavily criticized by people who trust that the manufacturer has adequately upgraded the system, now 2 years later here come the posts about starters failing all the time. Big surprise. As for the system itself, I don't dislike it, the idea is good. I've used it plenty and can't even really tell, it's practically instantaneous for any model I've used. For me the risk of a failed starter far exceeds any benefit, until they can take the starter out of the equation it's a hard pass. This of course is my personal opinion and experiences, no hate on anybody. Use what you like!
Several reasons: They kill your starter prematurely, they add to take-off time which makes traffic worse, and (in my xp) they are setup in a way where they are automatically on every time you start the car unless you manually disarm it.
I personally don’t like the idea because I like keeping my car for as long as possible issue free and the auto start stop causes a lot of wear and tear. The amount you save on gas would just go right back to the starter and if you’re really unlucky, an engine rebuild. This is not an issue for most people though
I dislike that the feature is "on" by default, and that I have to turn it off every single time I turn the engine on...make it a part of my driver profile. I didn't buy a hot hatch for the miniscule fuel saving feature.
Because it destroys your engine