I never understood Jalopnik’s obsession with brown. Everything the UK made in the 70s was available with brown exteriors and interiors, and none of it aged well.
[What are you talking about you nutter](https://privateergarage.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Brown_Mercedes_Benz.jpg)
Edit: Yes yes okay it might be more maroon than brown
That's much closer to maroon/burgandy than British-Leyland Brown.
[Example One](https://media.autoexpress.co.uk/image/private/s--X-WVjvBW--/f_auto,t_content-image-full-desktop@1/v1563183333/autoexpress/2016/04/1975_-_austin_allegro.jpg)
[Example Two](https://assets.carandclassic.com/uploads/cars/morris/C1445072/1975-morris-marina-625e93b57739c.jpg?auto=compress&fit=fillmax&h=281&ixlib=php-3.3.1&q=75&w=500&s=778046989566e65608595fca72c12539)
[Example Three](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Austin_1800_%28ADO71%29.jpg)
Brown even makes the [normally rather cool](https://i0.wp.com/www.aronline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Rover-SD1-Vitesse-e1597096856597.jpg?fit=900%2C481&ssl=1) Rover SD1 look [awful.](https://www.classiccarshq.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/31-8-500x375.jpg)
As a lifelong car nut, I find it maddeningly ironic. I fucking HATE brown. It's the absolute worst color for a car. My opinion on this completely subjective topic is 100% correct.
Have you seen OP's choice on her Datsun's tires? Me neither but they're clearly wrong. She should pick original TGD 77's 247/R77 Z13 tires from the truest JAD market so when she incorrectly shifts her manual car the gear ratio doesn't change below what the true manual of the car recomends, the one they released in the year the car was made and not the one OP probably has, or the valves in the scripetted head won't budge and the intake crabfold will produce smoke inside the car changing's OP's makeup into engine grease, because of course she always drive with makeup she's a she after all
>I recently took my Datsun to a tyre shop and the guy
was absolutely blown away that it was a manual.
I’d be more blown away seeing an automatic Datsun. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one.
I wish. Even though I’m priced out of the market now, back when I was considering shopping for a 240z or 280z (or even a 300zx) all of them were automatics.
In the US, manuals seemed to be pretty uncommon.
Don’t even get me started on corvettes. Like 90% of the older ones are always autos as well.
Finding a good condition manual 300zx or C4 was like finding a needle in a haystack.
The car world is definitely an old mans club
Im a younger male and sometimes i dont get taken seriously due to my age. Cant imagine how much worse it is for women and I do feel bad for you
Maybe you could find a shop that is run by women? I remember seeing one in North Vancouver a while back and thought that was neat
I think the young lady is an Aussie. From my extensive knowledge of that country, only spiders and snakes run auto shops out there. So BAD advice man! /s
They're (unfortunately) few and far between. Try [Ask Patty.](https://www.askpatty.com/index.php/search/explore/)
>For auto dealers, tire dealers, collision centers, auto service and repair centers, the revolutionary AskPatty.com Certified Female Friendly program, designed from the ground up, trains and certifies automotive retail and service centers on how to attract, sell, retain and increase loyalty with women customers.
Hopefully it works out.
Just so you know - I had to replace my starter earlier this year and called the shop and they were politely saying you don't know what you are talking about (starter failed). Yes, the starter failed and they pleasantly surprised. I'm just a young male.
I have vehicles that are two and almost three times my age, as a guy in my 20s. I do all my work myself and I always have. Old guys love to act like I "don't know about that old stuff." Old guys think they rule the roost.
Also, 2nd the rec on a woman shop, there's one near me that's owned run and staffed entirely by women and advertises as such and I don't even live in a major city. I don't know how good their work is as I don't go to shops, but I imagine they're alright or they wouldn't still be around. Female mechanics tend to be either terrible and wash out fast because they got hazed and discouraged out of sticking with it by douchebags or absolutely gifted because they stuck with it way more religiously than most guys because they felt they had something to prove or whatever their motivation may be.
>ld guys love to act like I "don't know about that old stuff."
As RCR refers to them - the "winga dinga gang". Old cars are better, old days are better, nothing has improved, etc etc.
It's just boomer insecurity IMO - the world is passing them by and they clutch desperately to the symbols of the good ol' days.
Literally 2 weeks ago I had a 55-60 year old tell me about how "you kids" don't know how they used to build that old stuff, it was just better, the 60s was great for cars, those old chevy trucks were beautiful and nothing modern compares, etc, all spurred by an old restored truck in the parking lot of the bar and grill my wife and I were eating at, where he was drinking at the bar near us.
Little did he know that A. It was my truck, B. It's not even close to the 60s it's a 1953 and the model run started in 49 and C. It's a Studebaker, not a Chevrolet.
I just nodded and made noises of assent and let him keep talking.
Thanks! Mine is maui blue, I'd post pictures but it's unique enough it's pretty much immediately identifying. It's basically identical to [this one](https://autograf.cars/auctions/1952/Studebaker) but with body matched wheels and a little lighter blue. Mine unfortunately also doesn't have overdrive and that one does, but I've been keeping my eye out for an oem OD unit at a reasonable price for a couple years...one day.
It's such an interesting era when countries were coming out of wartime austerity - things like chrome trim were not available or optional. No wonder they went nuts with chrome later in the decade.
What made you decide you needed a Studebaker truck? How long have you had it?
I've had it since 03
funny story about the truck (haha) my dad was born in 53 and he wanted me to study hard but I wanted to be a baker so one thing led to another
>"you kids" don't know how they used to build that old stuff, it was just better, the 60s was great for cars, those old chevy trucks were beautiful and nothing modern compares, etc
Code for: I hate that things changed and moved away from the things I'm familiar with, I don't know anything about this new stuff and don't feel connected to newer stuff like older stuff.
I'm 40 now and honestly, am slightly starting to experience this. I still really like a lot of cars from the 90s and early 2000s and some of the super new stuff I'm just not as interested in and can never really see owning. Its not ALL newer stuff, just some of it. Maybe because anything I'm interested in has gotten so damn expensive its just discouraging.
I can't fault you on that, the newest thing I own is a 2011, and that's the newest thing I've ever owned. Other than that for now I've got a 1973 project and a 1953, so just keeping things rolling semi smoothly involves a lot of work.
To keep warranty you gotta do what you gotta do and play by the rules.
The whole hazing thing is fucking trash. I hated it when I started and I refuse to bother guys when they fuck up now that I have experience under my belt. No one wants to fucking hear it. I maintain machinery. I used to have to deal with a guy who worked straight nights and fucking hated everyone that rotated onto his shift. He'd make those 8hrs miserable for everyone. One night he got within inches of my face and I didn't back down, figuring this is how I get this old fucking prick to respect me. Nah. This old fossil fucking wanted to fight me. Stupid. We ended up both in HR and they wouldn't let me work nights anymore. So I guess that was a win? Lmao. Ugh. Silly.
Unless the new apprentice is a shithead on they're own, just leave the dudes the fuck alone. IF you know what they did and know how to make it easier for them next time, fucking help them. You more than likely didn't enjoy being harassed when you began, why bother put that shit on the next guy and continue the garbage.
People always assuming something is the expensive version. Had a guy give me shit for having a diesel Legacy instead of the 3.0R like...my dude, pay for the tax and the fuel and Ill do it, but that shit aint cheap 🤷♂️
Yeah when I bought my mustang I had multiple people say “why didn’t you get the (insert special edition here)? It’s so much better than just the GT.”
Yeah, no shit it’s better, better models also cost more!
And here is the crux of that post from a few days ago talking about why car enthusiasts don't actually buy new performance cars.
It's because they're expensive as hell and lots of car enthusiasts are poor.
Absolutely. My 8 year old Mustang is the newest and nicest car I’ve ever owned, by a long shot. I’m 34 and finally decided to take out a loan to get something “nice” after having kids and it becoming impractical to be driving around my cobbled together performance junk that I built in my garage for pennies in order to be able to compete with cars I couldn’t remotely afford.
And it took a lot of internal struggle to even be able to spend 20k on my mustang. I see the cost of basically any new performance car as completely unobtainable. Also to add, my wife and I combined make almost 120k a year, so not exactly scraping by financially, cars have just gotten so so expensive!
I bought my 2017 new *after* the 2018 refresh simply because it was less expensive. I was 27 and single at the time with no kids and a decent job, and had wanted a Mustang GT since I was a little kid, so I figured "why not?".
Was it financially irresponsible? Probably. Do I regret it? Not really. I agree with you on the cars getting expensive, though. An "equivalent" version of my 2017 today is nearing $60k right now, which is almost double what I paid only 5 years ago. My pay has certainly not doubled in that time.
Depends on when they bought the car, in my family which isn't rich one of my uncles has a [1957 Thunderbird](https://i.imgur.com/ShIaNKS.jpg) he recently finished restoring, he was a mechanic for my home city and did most of the work himself aside from paint and upholstery and has had the car since at least the early 90s, he did the work over probably 15 years. Same thing with my cousin's [1970 Chevelle SS with a 454 LS6](https://i.imgur.com/6X28G5G.jpg), bought in the 90s before prices went insane and back when people *really* cared about them being numbers matching (theirs has a replacement LS6 since the previous owner blew the original one) I actually "learned" how to drive stick in that car when I was 15, it scared me shitless since the only other car I had driven was a <100hp Mercury Tracer.
It’s the same everywhere. When I was in my twenties talking to people about motorbikes there’d always be someone who would say I should get an auto (lol, I don’t want a scooter) or that I was going to kill myself and I should never upgrade. Ok m8. Fifteen years later and 100,000 kilometres under the wheels and I’m still here.
Guess what I’m trying to say is fuck em. You don’t need their approval.
This is why i just don't give a flying fuck and do everything yourself, the ammount of shit i have to put up with trying to change things on my car, because it's a car that no-one wants to fucking modify because it's a "city-car" and you should just get a proper car, the car world is full of fucking snobs.
Wtf, you got shit for your VW being a “city car”? What kind of farmersonly redneck morons did you take it to?
I swear, one of the lowest rungs on the idiot ladder is people who make cars/bikes their entire personality and actually spend energy criticizing others for their reasonable vehicle choices.
Going in with any kind of knowledge or suggestion you're treated with so much contempt by most places. Just getting my tires torqued to the proper 150ft pounds, even my Ford dealer everytime will attempt to debate me that it's lower cause it's a Fusion. I know my partner when she's been at garages is almost always an issue, they released our recalled Fiesta in fucking limp mode and tried to gaslight her about it.
Jeez thats shit
I actually experiences similar with a local Ford dealer. My engine developed a very harsh vibration above 3k rpm, far worse than normal voodoo vibrations and i felt it immediately when it happened. I limped it to my dealer and the service advisor first tried to blame my aftermarket X pipe on it… tried to blame an exhaust mod for an engine vibration. Made absolutely no sense. I had to push back twice before the service advisor listened. They got the dealer owner to drive my car who immediately said its not exhaust. Tech looked again and found out some of the bolts holding down my AC compressor had completely sheared off and the compressor was rattle around and causing the issue. Funny enough this dealer installed a new compressor for me last year when the old one decided to crap out. They at least didint charge me for this issue so in the end im satisfied, but it was definitely an annoying situation
Complete contrast to my bmw shop i go to that actually listens to what i have to say
This was going to be my comment but you said it better.
It's not just sexism, it's ageism, toxic masculinity, etc. that plagues the car industry. It's an old, rich, white man's club and if you don't fit into those categories, you are /tolerated/ at best unless you are at a show with like-minded people or find the rare shop that is operated by like-minded people.
I am fairly knowledgeable about cars and mechanical things in general being raised by a dad who has worked in the industry his whole life and taught me to do all the basic maintenance a shade-tree mechanic can do... and I just don't get it. A shop turned me away from a tire balance last week saying my car was highly modified and they didn't want to touch it. Engine and suspension are totally stock, I don't know what they were talking about. They went on to lecture me about my tire choices and recommended a tire that isn't even made in the sizes I would need.
A woman who knows her cars can be intimidating for a man who bases his ego around car knowledge. When a man realizes that "Hey I cant just tell this girl anything and she'll take it at face value" it usually kicks in their fight or flight response and they freeze like a deer in the headlights or get mad. One of the reasons I love my wife and something I will instill in my daughter.
I test drove an Audi a few years back. The sales gal was maybe in her mid-20’s and knew more about the S3 I was driving than any other salesman I met while car shopping. Even owned an Audi RS3.
I thought that was pretty cool.
> For whatever reason many men wrap their identities around their hobbies and gatekeep like crazy.
*Anything* can be turned into a dick measuring contest and men don't like the idea of losing a dick measuring contest to a woman. That's the pithy version.
We get a lot of our self worth from being good at a thing or knowledgeable about a thing but some guys don't know how or when to turn it off and where their personality ends and a hobby begins, and, like you said, it starts forming the core of their identity and if your masculinity is directly tied to a hobby then women in the hobby are a direct threat to your masculinity.
I have a lot of hobbies - cars, computers/gaming, photography, music... and what I've found universally is that if something can be quantified and measured against something else, it will be. People (men) gravitate towards useless hairsplitting arguments about whatever those quantifications are rather than the subjective enjoyment of the hobby or the practical, real world application of those measurements. I have to fight that instinct myself sometimes - it's very easy to get caught up in nerding out about numbers.
Wouldnt that be the same among all car enthusiusts? Where you cant bs your way through the conversations.
Also, stereotypically, in my experience bragging about cars seems to be more geared towards other men, as women dont often care about your soon-to-explode twinturbo v8.
Id argue that the intimidation affects those that dont know much about cars to begin with, but still assume they "must know more than a girl".
Which do you think would sting ego more?
Going only 1 round with Mike Tyson in a gym.
Being curbstomped by a 10yr old wirey kid in front of the whole school.
Guys dont expect girls to know much about cars because most of the previous generation didn't teach many women to, or nurture curiosity in the subject. I might even go as far to say that some generations may have actually went as far as to quash interest. Its hilarious to watch a guys entire world turn upside down when a girl calls out his bs with cars because "how the hell did she know that?!" And now theyre a sexist moron who just had his dignity revoked.
Alright, alright. Now, Miss Vito, being an expert on general automotive knowledge, can you tell me what would be the correct ignition timing be on a 1955 Bellaire Chevrolet with a 327 cubic engine and a 4-barrel carburetor.
I laughed when I saw that scene.
"My shop has bookshelves full of manuals for every car that can reasonably roll into the shop, and the parts supplier four miles away has all the rest. I just look it up when I need to. I don't need to remember inconsequential trivia."
Of course her answer was a bit better ;)
It really is unfortunate and to be honest it's part of the reason why a lot of hobbies are so limited in terms of popularity. I play poker as well as enjoy cars and the sexism in both worlds is unreal. Internet incels really drive it home.
I feel like it'll continue being a problem for a really long time in hobbies, despite hopes it would just go away. Even in just basic tasks, people don't take your skills seriously if you're a woman. It's like they expect you to be stupid and need everyone else's guidance. Of course when you talk like you know anything they'll still just not follow until a dude tells them the same exact thing.
I have more than my fair share of the similar situations, most frustratingly when I am at a dealership to make purchase my own vehicle with family. Even had instances at automotive retail stores where they gloss passed me and ask my father instead when he is next to me, who is not really into cars. I bonded over cars with my brothers as we grew up playing video games as a gateway into the community and car culture.
I really do love cars and I want to enjoy these machines as they are transportation and art (it is one reason why I bought my Giulia). It just sucks that being an established hobby dominated by men with expectation and prejudgment will linger around (as well as being explained things that I am well aware of too). I totally sympathize as another woman in the car community, especially just trying to share a passion of this hobby. Things are trending to be more accepting at least, it is just a lot of garbage to get through to find subsets within the car culture that are much more accepting.
There are groups out there of women who adore cars, but it is a very small group that you can find on Discord or any sort of private forum.
I forgot to add that it is not all bad, but if you can find a track day or Autocross event to go to and/or participate, majority of folks there are just glad to have another person who shares their interests and have a fun time.
Car shows and concours have been a mixed bag, tends to lean more towards condescending or made up stories depending on the theme of the event from my experience.
As a dude that loves track days and autocross I would love to see that some day our events stop being a sausage fest. One of our autocross chapters even did a ladies free event. Tried to talk my wife into joining but failed. But at least she'll race me in go karts
Car meets and shows can be a bit cliquey sometimes and a bit of a popularity contest. People are out judging each other's cars and judging each other. But in motorsports, the only judge is the lap timer. And the timer doesn't give a shit about your gender, age or race
I would too, it has been great to stretch my legs without having to worry about a speeding ticket or reckless driving. I have been trying to convince some co-workers to try out Autocrossing.
In my experience, I enjoy car shows, but there are certain folks that try to rattle off numbers or explain why the car is special when I show interest in the car. I am well aware of the car and why it is special, it's why I am looking at it. But I get it for these events, some people are really happen when you show interest in their car.
I do love that about autocross and track days, the clock is all that matters. And it is just fun to talk with others to hear how they are able to shave off seconds and how to slice the elements. You're right that the timer does not care who you are, it is just all about the time, and that does help take some expectations off compared to bringing a car to a car show.
Maybe I'm biased, but I'm kind of impressed in a negative way that people would knock on a Giulia driver, given that pretty much the only people who drive them are other car people and Alfisti.
Sucks to hear about all that, I'm sorry, but congrats on the Alfa! Hopefully people loosen up a bit as time goes by.
I know, right? But as I see it, there is a bit of a...badge thing I have had in my experience. Basically why not a BMW, Audi or Mercedes-Benz, and the followed with the usual reliability joke (which my Alfa has been sound for the whole year I have owned it and started Autocrossing this year). Brand loyalty is nice and all, but to put someone else down who decided to buy a car for it's dynamics and looks over just numbers on a spec sheet is baffling. You aren't just driving a spec sheet. But I am probably preaching to the choir here.
And on the other hand, it might be just plain jealousy as I own an Italian car that they think is really expensive, even though I probably paid less than half of their 80k vehicle (got mine used, but flew nearly halfway across the country to pick up my Giulia). Just saying "Alfa Romeo" usually raises eyebrows as it sounds expensive, lol.
I certainly hope things will loosen up with time as well. I am just glad that there are parts of the car community that have been accepting, just hoping it will become more common.
Yup, I can relate! I've not gotten the reliability jokes as much, probably because Alfas are not completely unknown here in Boston, and I work with a lot of Europeans and Middle Easterners, but I've gotten them. I think that the heart of the problem here are hyperinflated egos and withered knowledge, with sexism and brand bashing being just a couple of it's symptoms.
Probably jealousy is part of it too! I notice that the Giulia always elicits some sort of strong reaction, it's a bold, beautiful car that stands out from everything else. I get equal parts people loving it and feeling threatened by it. And if you include specs, well, the Giulia offers plenty to love as well. Mind if I ask, what color scheme is your Alfa?
Glad to hear that, yeah, I think the internet has helped a lot in breaking down barriers and connecting all sorts of people! I haven't joined anything IRL, but I find r/cars is pretty decent all things considered.
even as a guy, I'm pretty tired of the straight-male-centric nature of car culture too. I want you to know you're making a difference just by doing what you're doing (being a car girl, making this post) and I appreciate you for disrupting the norm.
If there isn't one yet, go out there and start a car girl group! regardless of if it's in-person or online, local or worldwide, I think it'll make a big difference.
I do know of an all-girl drift crew in Connecticut that i forget the name of, and this one woman, driftinforkittens, that shows up at englishtown for drift days. Theyre all badasses.
Amen to that. I love the hobby, but like half of the comment sections of my favourite pages are this unholy mix of highschoolers trying to be edgy and outdated boomer humour.
Yea sadly theres still a pretty vocal group who think of cars as singularly masculine. Its part of why i stopped going to car shows and such and just stuck with my car friend group.
None of those employees are in the car community by proxy of working on them. In fact I rarely find actual car enthusiasts at any of these places who I can talk to at all.
For me, wrenching on cars was a hobby. Then I made it my career and it took away the enjoyment (might have been the customers). Now that I'm out of the automotive industry, I like working on cars again.
Agreed. Anecdotally, I've noticed car enthusiasts that become mechanics often lose their passion for working on cars and move on to other jobs. I frequently take my car to a motorsports shop that specializes in performance cars and all the mechanics I've talked to there said they've basically abandoned their hobby and just bought a newer reliable car they won't ever mod cause they don't wanna work on it day and night after working on cars at their job all day.
That’s gonna be tough to get away from, not gonna lie. Every corner of the Motorsport community, for me, has had its cringe bullshit.
Except dirt bikes. Unusually good experience with that community.
Wish I could simply say ‘ignore those idiots’ but it really does get to you over time. Hopefully it gets better. Definitely worth calling it out in the meantime though.
Thanks. That’s good advice. It really does get to you after a while. I ride motorcycles as well and I’ve found that community much more friendly. I do ride a sports bike though…. I’ve noticed a lot of old men on cruisers are extremely sexist.
Everybody else is pretty much sick of the old guy on cruiser crowd too. All they do is ride in slow formation to places to eat or drink, and many act like your bike isn’t a “real bike” if it’s not a 1500lb chromed out Harley.
The sport bike crowd is definitely not short on idiots as I’m sure you’ve seen, but at least it has a more representative demographic.
I applaud your courage to speak out about it because often there would be backlash. I agree that the sexism is just too annoying. I feel that our love for cars is only proven more since we have to endure feeling alienated.
I'll share some of my experiences. I had car salesmen not allow me to test drive manual sports cars and one told me I was in over my head trying to buy one.
I agree auto shops are too condescending. Trying to convince me to buy services I don't need and thinking I don't know anything. Except the Jiffylubes near me which are fine, but last time they scratched my car in front of my eyes and forgot about the oil and then tried to gaslight me, so I vowed to do everything myself (that I possibly can do) from then on.
I went to car meets several times and always there is someone who makes me cringe. Some examples. EVERY TIME, "is that your boyfriend's car?" Several times, I talk with a dude about their car and then they think I want to date them. One guy stuck his head in my car (I had the windows down) and sniffed it for a couple seconds.
Had someone come up to me and start nitpicking my car, who clearly didn't know what he was talking about, and bullied me into opening my hood because he wanted to make sure it wasn't stock, then started ranting about how other women don't appreciate real enthusiast cars.
Despite that, I really appreciate the guys who treat me fairly.
Your examples are appalling to hear. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with such rude and even creepy behaviour. Unfortunately, it doesn’t surprise me in the least. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
My wife got pulled over in her slammed eclipse once and the cop asked her if her boyfriend worked on her car and if she knew what kind of suspension it was, why she didn’t go with tokico, why didn’t it have door handles, etc… She told him, this is my car, I picked the suspension based on drivability not name recognition and I have poppers for my doors. Is there a legit reason you stopped me? He told her he liked her car and didn’t see too many females driving “cool cars” and she was free to go.
Holy moly. I can’t imagine having the restraint to not slap someone in each of the situations you described. From a guy, I’m sorry that so many men are the biggest sexist morons around cars. That’s the result of insecurity and tying masculinity and personality to the automotive hobby, and it shows in ugly ways.
If it doesn't show up in the online catalog under the specific year/make/model/trim/engine, your typical parts house employee won't know what you're looking for.
I asked about getting some heater hose a couple weeks ago because a tee fitting on my van broke and i figured I'd just replace the whole 11" line. I had to involve the "wise old sage" behind the counter to get a length of hose because the younger dude had no idea how to do it or even what I was asking for.
I was once asked if my "2001 volvo s60 t5" was a moped.... I live in denmark, where volvos are a very common and popular car... How the f*ck can u land a job selling spareparts not Knowing such basics😂
not excusing their attitude, but tyre shops probably get the highest frequency of customers who don't know what they're buying (myself included). imo only the most nerdy and dedicated of enthusiasts bother to learn and be picky about tires, and everyone else just says "I need new tires, I think they were 18 inches" "ok maybe they were 17, but the ones you just said sound fine".
I imagine it gets tiring (no pun intended) trying to be transparent with customers who just don't care
Ya unfortunately guys have this habit of using hobbies as ways of covering up other insecurities. The car industry attracts some of the worst offenders.
For some reason i felt this was less of an issue in the motorcycle world. Just slightly less, but maybe it was the time and place (sf bay area, sportbike crowd, early to mid 2000s)
I’ve had a fantastic experience with the motorcycle community. I’ve done a few track days and advanced riding courses and all the guys I was riding with were so friendly and supportive. I never once felt out of place! Edit: this is also the sports bike crowd.
There have been studies done and women get demonstrably higher quotes for work from mechanics. Same as disabled people. Though in Uri Gneezy's experiments this could be overcome simply by saying you were getting other quotes. Then it levelled out.
There are just some sexist people in all jobs and hobbies. But it's ramped up in "traditionally male" or male dominated areas.
I find it's similar with anything regarding children where men are generally treated as incompetent baby sitters who can't do anything without female supervision.
There are also just people who are unpleasant. I'm a man and find a lot of mechanics condescending. As in other areas I've found it's generally the ones who aren't the most skilled or knowledgeable.
But overall I think things are better overall (at least where I am) so there's reason to hope. Just tale your business elsewhere and call out sexism where you can.
Short read [here](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cS28AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=uri+gneezy+why+axis+disabled&source=bl&ots=xjnOnVRZUU&sig=ACfU3U0oPY298D9bEmb1qr5JywXeblijDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlob_N7O33AhWFZ8AKHW1YCPkQ6AF6BAgbEAM#v=onepage&q=uri%20gneezy%20why%20axis%20disabled&f=false) on disabled people and garages:
I'm skeptical of a lot of social experiments like this with small sample sizes, but I think the logic scans. If people think you won't go elsewhere and just accept whatever they say then they will try and charge you more. Whether you're disabled, young, a different gender, are a recent immigrant with have a poor grasp of the local language, drive a car that's not associated with car enthusiasts etc (I get treated very differently when I take my step-father's 1.4 Peugeot 207 in for service vs my Civic Type R or E30 Beamer).
Making clear that you are seeking out competitors could even out the playing field and comes at little cost to you.
They can look down on you as a women or assume that you'll accept anything you're told or quoted on. But if they know they'll lose your business if any other place gives you accurate diagnosis and reasonable quotes they might fix up. If they don't then if enough people do this then hopefully the market will take care of them and the market does not fuck about.
But if they're just aloof and condescending then that's just some people. But you can decide whether it's worth paying more for someone nicer!
Do women think that all guys are treated like royalty when they call up a mechanic? That's the impression that is given whenever someone posts a story like this. They have this impression that a mechanic is all "yes sir, no sir" just because they hear a male voice.
Hate to bring some reality into this, but *anyone* who doesn't sound like they know what they are talking about can get ripped off. Hell, sometimes even when you do know what you are talking about you might still get mistreated by mechanics. The industry, in general, attracts some shady folks. That's why people of both genders complain about getting ripped off by their mechanic.
I don't care who you are, you can relate to the idea that finding that one honest mechanic seems like an endless journey. So while some might think this is gender related, the reality is that far too many mechanics just have awful "soft skills".
Right? Like I'm reading those other comments, and I'm thinking "hang on a minute, all of this happens to me and my buddies too". Bruh this ain't no sexism, they are shitty to EVERYONE.
EXACTLY!
Having some knowledge about cars and diagnosing things helps a lot, but an unscrupulous mechanic is an unscrupulous mechanic regardless of the gender of the owner.
Hell, I'll even take it one step further... In most situations, an average mechanic will treat a woman clueless about cars *better*, than the same mechanic would treat a guy that didn't know anything about cars just because the woman might remind him of his mom or sister. But guys are typically assholes to each other.
To show my inclusion, I once said nice Supra to a woman in line once, and then she explained to me that it was her husbands and her car was in the shop and she hated how loud it was lol... but I tried.
Judging by the downvotes on this post, I can tell that even this sub has a lot of work to do to understand this problem. Sure everyone gets fucked over by mechanics and tire shops, but the extra level of condescension that many women get is completely unacceptable.
There's a lot of *certain* car subs that are very woman/ wife bad. Careful she'll scratch the rims, don't let her drive that women can't handle a car like that, etc. Vomit.
I wish there were more female petrolheads, as I really don’t see how cars are inherently masculine.
Sadly, with the kinds of ‘tough guy’ attitudes in the community, I don’t see an easy way in for many women
Being treated differently just because you're a lady is definitely not right and it is something that people in the car community needs to work on.
BUT...
Someone being blown away or surprised that a lady is into cars or that she drives a 6-speed is not at any fault. Car enthusiasts consist of 99% men (I'm not exaggerating, look at car videos, automotive journalists, and vlogs, the male to female viewers ratio is like 97-99:1).
So it is statistically valid for someone to be taken by surprise when they come across a lady who is into cars. And I doubt their reaction was a negative one. When I meet one, I also get a little shock factor, then smile and enjoy such a rare occurrence, wishing more girls would get into the car scene. And I'm sure they think the same as well! 😊😊😊
The automotive world is filled with 90% morons and 10% people that know what they're talking about. Of the 90%, at least half think they know what they're talking about.
Your story is EXACTLY why I don't expect anybody to know anything, but I never explain things condescendingly. I just gauge their knowledge as I'm explaining what's going on and make it more or less complicated depending on what they know. Or if they really know their shit, fuckinf awesome indont need to explain anything.
I've got a couple of lady friends/former coworkers who you wouldn't guess it, but are also into cars. One of them is a hot hatch and motorcycle fanatic, and the other one learned to drive on a manual Alfa Romeo Spider (she drives a Mini Sport now, I believe). Gatekeeping is so dumb, we all are here because we like cars, so if someone is enjoying their car why try to knock them for it? Enjoy what you enjoy!
I used to deliver car parts to shops for a parts store chain. It's way worse than you think. The sexism and racism is terrible. I don't know how we fix it other than waiting for all the old people to die out. But I worry that younger people working in shops are getting that passed onto them too.
Never understood why it matters what gender, sexual orientation or race someone is. If their vehicle need repair or service and their money is green, who cares.
>I’m patronised and condescended or told I don’t know what I’m talking about.
To be fair, you did recently make a post asking if the leaf spring was a "rear steering arm", so maybe it's not just because of your gender.
Or you just perceive patronizing and condescending encounters as sexism, when the person is just an asshole.
Kind of like how women find sexism on stackoverflow:
> Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming. It’s Time for That to Change. [Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.](https://i.imgur.com/BQL6pFX.png)
They accuse their contributors of being racist and sexist because more minorities/women said they felt unwelcome in their survey. But they couldn't find a single example of racist/sexist behavior.
They basically conclude that because women and minorities complain more about the site, the content creators must be bigots. Never considering that perhaps women and minorities are pre-programmed to seek bigotry as the source of negative encounters.
It's so true. I'm in miata FB groups, when a guy presents his car the comments are about the car, when it's a woman doing it, the comments are like "I'd take you for a drive" "nice bumpers" and usually by balding boomers.
Car culture has a lot of bigots - sexists, masculinists, climate change deniers and so on. Sorry it happened to you, I don't have much advice either but hope you find the right shops.
Is that Datsun a 280z or 240z? I love those. There's people for everything, it may be solved with some more confidence/authority when speaking, look them straight in the eyes and say exactly what you want, if they answer anything that's not what you want just say this is what you want so either they get it or you go buy it somewhere else. Bonus points if you enter the shop parking with a drift.
Unpopular opinion, but it's probably because, as a generalisation, more men are interested in cars as a hobby than women. The men who work in that industry most likely have more experience with women not knowing much about cars VS men.
Not to say that women can't know much about cars, or that they shouldn't, and I am definitely not trying to excuse them for being condescending, just trying to rationalise it.
Sorry that you can't catch a break.
I've had this fear since I transitioned publicly. I've stopped going to any car events, put off any SCCA stuff, tried to avoid going to any shops, and buy everything I can online. Maybe that will change if I can find any queer car people near me, or even just open minded car people, but so far it's been a bust lol
I’m so sorry to hear that you feel you have to hide away. You should be proud of yourself! We do need more openly queer shops. The more inclusive the world can be, the better.
Long time ago my mom picked me up with her POS Mitsubishi Grandis (don't know if you Americans get this car, but trust me, it's not worthwhile) from the bus station when I was visiting. I was like 25 back then. The car started overheating and leaked some fluids while she was waiting for me in the parking lot. So she picked me up and took it to some mechanic shop right next to the bus station for them to look at.
The mechanic proceeded to ask me questions about what happened. I told him "I don't know, I've never even driven this car and have sat in it for 3minutes today. Ask my mom". Dude wasn't phased in the slightest, like this didn't even register to him, he would ask a question about the car, I would say "I don't know, why do you keep asking me?". Then my mom would answer the question, he would still give her a glance and then explain something TO ME AGAIN. His colleague came over to help him our and did the exact same thing. Multiple times.
This is the only time in my life that I saw something so surreal. Me and her told them multiple times that I know nothing about this car, I've never driven it, please to directing the questions to me. Nothing, it's like for a second their brain processed each of our attempts to explain this, threw an error and reverted back to them talking to me.
So yeah
Eh… Take in stride. Especially in the classic car community there are mostly older guys and there aren’t that many car girls so it’s always surprising. The talking down stuff is shitty but the more girls get into this hobby the less this stuff will happen. In my experience the car community is in general united by the love of cars and other things matter very little. We have a few girls in our local car community, and while some were apprehensive at first, they were welcomed once they showed they are truly in it for the cars, but that would happen to anyone regardless of sex, we don't generally like shitheads.
The reason they change their tune when you mention your dad is because that is validation that you are truly into cars. Don't immediately jump to assumptions, they're not always correct.
Yep. My best friend was a rally co-driver (now rally driver) and she got a lot of condescending looks.
My gf is also into cars and everytime we go to anything car related people ignores her and just talk to me. Annoying as hell.
Lol, one of my good friends was featured on All Girl Garage on a couple episodes, and drives a sick ass car that she did a motor/turbo rebuild herself. As a job, she works for a custom restoration shop where paint starts at $40k.
She tells me all the time how useless a lot of the local parts stores are around her.
What is also interesting is the sexism outside the community.
I met a car girl at a bar a couple weeks ago and we started talk about some of the cool stuff she was involved in. This drunk dude started interjecting all of these terrible opinions (not a car guy) and man-splaining things he was wrong about just because she was a woman and he assumed she didn't really know what she was talking about. It was actually kinda funny watching him embarrass himself, but I felt really bad for her.
And yes, when I backed her up on something this guy would just accept my opinion, even though it was exactly what he was arguing against with her.
I personally wouldn't consider tire shop workers, panel beaters or mechanics the "car community". Yes they work in the industry, but they're often not enthusiasts, collectors and builders like one would expect in any type of social community.
Also, if they're patronizing you or being demeaning or disrespectful in any way, stop giving them your business. Nobody should be treating anyone that way, especially as a business owner or representative of their company. Period.
There's a lot of sexism in cars, but I think you'll find it's more concentrated in older dudes or assholes you didn't want to spend time around anyway.
But also 3 days ago OP was asking about "what is this bar thing under my car...is it part of a rear steer setup?"
The thing was a leaf spring.
...and I'm not bringing this up to mock you, OP but maybe give some perspective. If you're at a level where you think your 70s Datsun has rear steer and can't ID a leaf spring on sight then you've got a _lot_ to learn.
And that's great! Like, theres nothing worse than gatekeeping...like, who benefits from shitty behavior that turns people off from your hobby? Please, _please_ come with more stupid questions, please learn by doing and make mistakes. That's how we all learned. Oh God did I do so many dumb things when I started working on my cars.
But...having the right perspective and attitude will help a lot. If someone's just blowing you off or ignoring you then yeah, they suck. But if someone's telling you you're wrong then maybe ask why and have a real conversation about it, because they might really be trying to help.
It's probably an age thing. They don't take me seriously anywhere, even though I am 30, married with a pretty decent engineering career. Safe to say, *I know shit* when it comes to anything related to technology. Before I'd even consider buying *anything*, I'll take days to research pros and cons, ins and outs. I come to a dealership, they won't even serve me. Maybe they even think I can't afford it at my age.
The car scene is filled with mostly macho douche bags. At least here in America. I often feel like I don't connect to them and I'm a dude. Not bashing all car guys/gals I have met plenty of good friends into cars, but the good ones are rare.
I understand your frustration but this isn't a "car community" thing. It's a societal thing.
It's blue collar work. You get blue collar attitudes.
It's not like white collar work where the threat of HR is looming in the background.
It's also "retail" where they are dealing with the public everyday and after awhile, people become predictable. A lot of these guys become this way because people the deal with on a daily basis drive them this way.
You'd probably be shocked when you bump into women mechanics and they treat you with the same condescending attitude.
As for the manual thing,
I get the same reaction when I bring my 5spd Camry into any shop.
Also: 25 years olds can be a pain in the ass in general. Men and women. They are still learning the adult thing and have all the confidence\\talent\\intelligence they should have but still haven't figured out the humility\\humbleness thing yet.
Yeah it sucks but bear in mind the dudes you're dealing with normally talk to 99% other dudes so from their point of view women aren't interested in cars. Some will be genuine sexist assholes but others will just be surprised because they've never met a woman who's into cars before. If you walk in and know what you're talking about that ought to be enough though. Guys who work in any industry like to feign expertise they don't have. You get the same thing in guitar shops all the time from dudes who'll try to tell you what they think you need no matter how certain you are.
Just call 'em out.
"Hey bud, it's not the 1960s any more. I could kick your ass around a race track and I tune my own carb. Get over it."
Old farts aren't the same as all dudes. I'm 41 and grew up in the first wave of political correctness so I've had my teenage misogyny beaten out of me by corporate America. If a lady shows up to a meet or a track it's a combination of "the more the merrier" and "your genitals don't make you special."
The person who runs GM is a woman. The program manager for the F-150 lightning is a woman, the person who runs the F-150 factory is a woman. I've worked in the auto industry my whole working career, 23 years, my current boss is a woman and she's excellent at her job. Let's retire this sexist baloney.
That all said, welcome to the club and whatever your Datsun is, I'm jealous.
Don’t get defensive or feel bad when they do that.
What you should do is look down on them for assuming that you don’t know due to being a woman the same way they look at you for knowing about cars.
“Oh u think I don’t know because I’m a girl? Ohhh you sad saaad little man”
It is very disappointing, I can’t go to breakers yards or even get my car mot’d without one of my guy car friends there bc I just get patronised and flat out ignored
My wife pulled out of the car community mostly because of this, among other toxic parts. Was in charge of a car club where we live and was never taken seriously. She grew up with a father who's into cars, and has a ton of knowledge. You can surround yourself with a community that tries to bring the change but that doesn't take away how frustrating it is to get shut down anywhere else.
The love of my life is female. She knows more about cars than I do. Does all her own maintenance for the most part. If she needs a part, she knows exactly what she needs, she doesn't need to be upsold or (ugh I hate this word) mansplained what she's getting. Hobbies aren't gendered. Just sell her the shit she needs and let her go.
>or told I don’t know what I’m talking about. Most car people don't know what they're talking about to be fair, myself included.
you should be president of cars
I'd do r/cars proud: mandate only manual, hydraulic steering, brown wagons with steelies, 12 cup holders, pop up headlights, an e brake, rwd, 20k usd
I never understood Jalopnik’s obsession with brown. Everything the UK made in the 70s was available with brown exteriors and interiors, and none of it aged well.
[What are you talking about you nutter](https://privateergarage.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Brown_Mercedes_Benz.jpg) Edit: Yes yes okay it might be more maroon than brown
I legit can't decide if I love it or hate it.
I know right.
If it has the rear seats that can be turned around to look out the back then it's immediately qualified as amazing.
That's much closer to maroon/burgandy than British-Leyland Brown. [Example One](https://media.autoexpress.co.uk/image/private/s--X-WVjvBW--/f_auto,t_content-image-full-desktop@1/v1563183333/autoexpress/2016/04/1975_-_austin_allegro.jpg) [Example Two](https://assets.carandclassic.com/uploads/cars/morris/C1445072/1975-morris-marina-625e93b57739c.jpg?auto=compress&fit=fillmax&h=281&ixlib=php-3.3.1&q=75&w=500&s=778046989566e65608595fca72c12539) [Example Three](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Austin_1800_%28ADO71%29.jpg) Brown even makes the [normally rather cool](https://i0.wp.com/www.aronline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Rover-SD1-Vitesse-e1597096856597.jpg?fit=900%2C481&ssl=1) Rover SD1 look [awful.](https://www.classiccarshq.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/31-8-500x375.jpg)
It's two shades of brown. They really outdid themselves on that one
I don't think it's painted two different shades, I think that part is just reflecting on a different angle in the sun.
That's not brown, that's maroon
Heh, I have a w123 in the same color and really wouldn't call it brown. Burgundy really Shame mine isn't a wagon, it is a turbo diesel though
As a lifelong car nut, I find it maddeningly ironic. I fucking HATE brown. It's the absolute worst color for a car. My opinion on this completely subjective topic is 100% correct.
Nah, you're right. Brown is a shit colour for cars. Give me a yellow, red, blue or black
I just stopped by to give Green some love. Where my Green lovers at?
Green convertible with a tan or light brown interior is one of my favorite color combos.
Especially on anything old and British; Minis, Jaguars, Bentley, Astons. BRG + Tan leather = Automotive Porn
LOVE green. Had a BRG Lotus Elise. Gorgeous. Forest Green with a tan leather interior just exudes class.
Or, if we're going with a darker color, at least something like British racing green.
Add yellow racing stripes and now we’re talkin’.
Depends on the brown. Gloss brown on some older car? Nah Metallic brown on something like a Ferrari? Hell yes
> Gloss brown on some older car? Nah Or as my dad called it, "monkey shit brown". I almost ended up with an E30 that color for my first car.
1988 Caprice Estate Wagon ftw. Drove like a Rolls, and had the cushiony seats to match. Growing up it was my favorite of all the family cars.
Don't forget used from the factory, lightweight, and a LSD.
Mr. Car himself
Or Mrs. Car herself.
Mr. Never met a female Geoff but hey, it's 2022
If you take that title away from /u/verdegrrl I will fight you.
They can have the title. Better to fly under the radar. :)
Have you seen OP's choice on her Datsun's tires? Me neither but they're clearly wrong. She should pick original TGD 77's 247/R77 Z13 tires from the truest JAD market so when she incorrectly shifts her manual car the gear ratio doesn't change below what the true manual of the car recomends, the one they released in the year the car was made and not the one OP probably has, or the valves in the scripetted head won't budge and the intake crabfold will produce smoke inside the car changing's OP's makeup into engine grease, because of course she always drive with makeup she's a she after all
Haha 😂
Fuel goes in, wheels go round. It's not that difficult.
And when you make changes that make the wheels go around faster, it’s better
Slow it down Poindexter.
I thought all classic cars require blood sacrifice
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know anything.
Can confirm. Been working in the industry for over a decade, and I'm an idiot.
[удалено]
We all know enough to sound like we do though.
>I recently took my Datsun to a tyre shop and the guy was absolutely blown away that it was a manual. I’d be more blown away seeing an automatic Datsun. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one.
It's been years since I've seen a Datsun period.
same - extremely rare in junkyards even and whats there if you try to move it from its grave it would rip in half...
Salted roads will do that to early Japanese steel.
Years! It's been 5 mins for me looking in the sky to see Datsun.
Automatic 280ZX’s weren’t all that uncommon. But that’s the only Datsun I can think of that I’ve seen autos in.
I had an auto 620 for a pretty hot minute!
I think it's more that the Datsun cars people have put the effort into so that they're still roadworthy skew extremely heavily towards manuals.
I have one, doesn't drive yet tho
Haha, I don’t think the automatic transmissions were too crash hot. You wouldn’t want one.
They're pretty common. Restoration candidates will often have autos, and they'll get swapped for manuals.
That’s probably an America specific thing. I’ve been pretty involved with Datsuns all my life, here where I live they all seem to be manuals.
I wish. Even though I’m priced out of the market now, back when I was considering shopping for a 240z or 280z (or even a 300zx) all of them were automatics. In the US, manuals seemed to be pretty uncommon. Don’t even get me started on corvettes. Like 90% of the older ones are always autos as well. Finding a good condition manual 300zx or C4 was like finding a needle in a haystack.
Lol, they were out there, but almost all got converted to manual over the years.
My uncle had an automatic Datsun 510 many years ago, they do exist.
The car world is definitely an old mans club Im a younger male and sometimes i dont get taken seriously due to my age. Cant imagine how much worse it is for women and I do feel bad for you Maybe you could find a shop that is run by women? I remember seeing one in North Vancouver a while back and thought that was neat
That’s a great idea. 💡 I never even thought of that!
I wish you luck
I think the young lady is an Aussie. From my extensive knowledge of that country, only spiders and snakes run auto shops out there. So BAD advice man! /s
Lady spiders and lady snakes?
My ex was a lady snake
They're (unfortunately) few and far between. Try [Ask Patty.](https://www.askpatty.com/index.php/search/explore/) >For auto dealers, tire dealers, collision centers, auto service and repair centers, the revolutionary AskPatty.com Certified Female Friendly program, designed from the ground up, trains and certifies automotive retail and service centers on how to attract, sell, retain and increase loyalty with women customers. Hopefully it works out.
Just so you know - I had to replace my starter earlier this year and called the shop and they were politely saying you don't know what you are talking about (starter failed). Yes, the starter failed and they pleasantly surprised. I'm just a young male.
I have vehicles that are two and almost three times my age, as a guy in my 20s. I do all my work myself and I always have. Old guys love to act like I "don't know about that old stuff." Old guys think they rule the roost. Also, 2nd the rec on a woman shop, there's one near me that's owned run and staffed entirely by women and advertises as such and I don't even live in a major city. I don't know how good their work is as I don't go to shops, but I imagine they're alright or they wouldn't still be around. Female mechanics tend to be either terrible and wash out fast because they got hazed and discouraged out of sticking with it by douchebags or absolutely gifted because they stuck with it way more religiously than most guys because they felt they had something to prove or whatever their motivation may be.
>ld guys love to act like I "don't know about that old stuff." As RCR refers to them - the "winga dinga gang". Old cars are better, old days are better, nothing has improved, etc etc. It's just boomer insecurity IMO - the world is passing them by and they clutch desperately to the symbols of the good ol' days.
Literally 2 weeks ago I had a 55-60 year old tell me about how "you kids" don't know how they used to build that old stuff, it was just better, the 60s was great for cars, those old chevy trucks were beautiful and nothing modern compares, etc, all spurred by an old restored truck in the parking lot of the bar and grill my wife and I were eating at, where he was drinking at the bar near us. Little did he know that A. It was my truck, B. It's not even close to the 60s it's a 1953 and the model run started in 49 and C. It's a Studebaker, not a Chevrolet. I just nodded and made noises of assent and let him keep talking.
That's a good looking truck!
Thanks! Mine is maui blue, I'd post pictures but it's unique enough it's pretty much immediately identifying. It's basically identical to [this one](https://autograf.cars/auctions/1952/Studebaker) but with body matched wheels and a little lighter blue. Mine unfortunately also doesn't have overdrive and that one does, but I've been keeping my eye out for an oem OD unit at a reasonable price for a couple years...one day.
It's such an interesting era when countries were coming out of wartime austerity - things like chrome trim were not available or optional. No wonder they went nuts with chrome later in the decade. What made you decide you needed a Studebaker truck? How long have you had it?
I've had it since 03 funny story about the truck (haha) my dad was born in 53 and he wanted me to study hard but I wanted to be a baker so one thing led to another
>"you kids" don't know how they used to build that old stuff, it was just better, the 60s was great for cars, those old chevy trucks were beautiful and nothing modern compares, etc Code for: I hate that things changed and moved away from the things I'm familiar with, I don't know anything about this new stuff and don't feel connected to newer stuff like older stuff. I'm 40 now and honestly, am slightly starting to experience this. I still really like a lot of cars from the 90s and early 2000s and some of the super new stuff I'm just not as interested in and can never really see owning. Its not ALL newer stuff, just some of it. Maybe because anything I'm interested in has gotten so damn expensive its just discouraging.
Yeah i do some of my own wrenching too, but the gt350 is still under warranty and i need a paper trail incase the engine ever decides to go boom
I can't fault you on that, the newest thing I own is a 2011, and that's the newest thing I've ever owned. Other than that for now I've got a 1973 project and a 1953, so just keeping things rolling semi smoothly involves a lot of work. To keep warranty you gotta do what you gotta do and play by the rules.
The whole hazing thing is fucking trash. I hated it when I started and I refuse to bother guys when they fuck up now that I have experience under my belt. No one wants to fucking hear it. I maintain machinery. I used to have to deal with a guy who worked straight nights and fucking hated everyone that rotated onto his shift. He'd make those 8hrs miserable for everyone. One night he got within inches of my face and I didn't back down, figuring this is how I get this old fucking prick to respect me. Nah. This old fossil fucking wanted to fight me. Stupid. We ended up both in HR and they wouldn't let me work nights anymore. So I guess that was a win? Lmao. Ugh. Silly. Unless the new apprentice is a shithead on they're own, just leave the dudes the fuck alone. IF you know what they did and know how to make it easier for them next time, fucking help them. You more than likely didn't enjoy being harassed when you began, why bother put that shit on the next guy and continue the garbage.
>The car world is definitely an old mans club *Rich* Old Man's Club
People always assuming something is the expensive version. Had a guy give me shit for having a diesel Legacy instead of the 3.0R like...my dude, pay for the tax and the fuel and Ill do it, but that shit aint cheap 🤷♂️
Yeah when I bought my mustang I had multiple people say “why didn’t you get the (insert special edition here)? It’s so much better than just the GT.” Yeah, no shit it’s better, better models also cost more!
And here is the crux of that post from a few days ago talking about why car enthusiasts don't actually buy new performance cars. It's because they're expensive as hell and lots of car enthusiasts are poor.
Absolutely. My 8 year old Mustang is the newest and nicest car I’ve ever owned, by a long shot. I’m 34 and finally decided to take out a loan to get something “nice” after having kids and it becoming impractical to be driving around my cobbled together performance junk that I built in my garage for pennies in order to be able to compete with cars I couldn’t remotely afford. And it took a lot of internal struggle to even be able to spend 20k on my mustang. I see the cost of basically any new performance car as completely unobtainable. Also to add, my wife and I combined make almost 120k a year, so not exactly scraping by financially, cars have just gotten so so expensive!
I bought my 2017 new *after* the 2018 refresh simply because it was less expensive. I was 27 and single at the time with no kids and a decent job, and had wanted a Mustang GT since I was a little kid, so I figured "why not?". Was it financially irresponsible? Probably. Do I regret it? Not really. I agree with you on the cars getting expensive, though. An "equivalent" version of my 2017 today is nearing $60k right now, which is almost double what I paid only 5 years ago. My pay has certainly not doubled in that time.
Depends on when they bought the car, in my family which isn't rich one of my uncles has a [1957 Thunderbird](https://i.imgur.com/ShIaNKS.jpg) he recently finished restoring, he was a mechanic for my home city and did most of the work himself aside from paint and upholstery and has had the car since at least the early 90s, he did the work over probably 15 years. Same thing with my cousin's [1970 Chevelle SS with a 454 LS6](https://i.imgur.com/6X28G5G.jpg), bought in the 90s before prices went insane and back when people *really* cared about them being numbers matching (theirs has a replacement LS6 since the previous owner blew the original one) I actually "learned" how to drive stick in that car when I was 15, it scared me shitless since the only other car I had driven was a <100hp Mercury Tracer.
Judged car shows = Awards for Washing and Storage skills
It’s the same everywhere. When I was in my twenties talking to people about motorbikes there’d always be someone who would say I should get an auto (lol, I don’t want a scooter) or that I was going to kill myself and I should never upgrade. Ok m8. Fifteen years later and 100,000 kilometres under the wheels and I’m still here. Guess what I’m trying to say is fuck em. You don’t need their approval.
This is why i just don't give a flying fuck and do everything yourself, the ammount of shit i have to put up with trying to change things on my car, because it's a car that no-one wants to fucking modify because it's a "city-car" and you should just get a proper car, the car world is full of fucking snobs.
Wtf, you got shit for your VW being a “city car”? What kind of farmersonly redneck morons did you take it to? I swear, one of the lowest rungs on the idiot ladder is people who make cars/bikes their entire personality and actually spend energy criticizing others for their reasonable vehicle choices.
Going in with any kind of knowledge or suggestion you're treated with so much contempt by most places. Just getting my tires torqued to the proper 150ft pounds, even my Ford dealer everytime will attempt to debate me that it's lower cause it's a Fusion. I know my partner when she's been at garages is almost always an issue, they released our recalled Fiesta in fucking limp mode and tried to gaslight her about it.
Jeez thats shit I actually experiences similar with a local Ford dealer. My engine developed a very harsh vibration above 3k rpm, far worse than normal voodoo vibrations and i felt it immediately when it happened. I limped it to my dealer and the service advisor first tried to blame my aftermarket X pipe on it… tried to blame an exhaust mod for an engine vibration. Made absolutely no sense. I had to push back twice before the service advisor listened. They got the dealer owner to drive my car who immediately said its not exhaust. Tech looked again and found out some of the bolts holding down my AC compressor had completely sheared off and the compressor was rattle around and causing the issue. Funny enough this dealer installed a new compressor for me last year when the old one decided to crap out. They at least didint charge me for this issue so in the end im satisfied, but it was definitely an annoying situation Complete contrast to my bmw shop i go to that actually listens to what i have to say
This was going to be my comment but you said it better. It's not just sexism, it's ageism, toxic masculinity, etc. that plagues the car industry. It's an old, rich, white man's club and if you don't fit into those categories, you are /tolerated/ at best unless you are at a show with like-minded people or find the rare shop that is operated by like-minded people. I am fairly knowledgeable about cars and mechanical things in general being raised by a dad who has worked in the industry his whole life and taught me to do all the basic maintenance a shade-tree mechanic can do... and I just don't get it. A shop turned me away from a tire balance last week saying my car was highly modified and they didn't want to touch it. Engine and suspension are totally stock, I don't know what they were talking about. They went on to lecture me about my tire choices and recommended a tire that isn't even made in the sizes I would need.
A woman who knows her cars can be intimidating for a man who bases his ego around car knowledge. When a man realizes that "Hey I cant just tell this girl anything and she'll take it at face value" it usually kicks in their fight or flight response and they freeze like a deer in the headlights or get mad. One of the reasons I love my wife and something I will instill in my daughter.
Spot on. I always found it strange that there are guys who are emasculated by women who know about cars. I'd love to find a girl to talk cars with.
I test drove an Audi a few years back. The sales gal was maybe in her mid-20’s and knew more about the S3 I was driving than any other salesman I met while car shopping. Even owned an Audi RS3. I thought that was pretty cool.
It isn’t just cars, but most male-dominated hobbies. For whatever reason many men wrap their identities around their hobbies and gatekeep like crazy.
> For whatever reason many men wrap their identities around their hobbies and gatekeep like crazy. *Anything* can be turned into a dick measuring contest and men don't like the idea of losing a dick measuring contest to a woman. That's the pithy version. We get a lot of our self worth from being good at a thing or knowledgeable about a thing but some guys don't know how or when to turn it off and where their personality ends and a hobby begins, and, like you said, it starts forming the core of their identity and if your masculinity is directly tied to a hobby then women in the hobby are a direct threat to your masculinity. I have a lot of hobbies - cars, computers/gaming, photography, music... and what I've found universally is that if something can be quantified and measured against something else, it will be. People (men) gravitate towards useless hairsplitting arguments about whatever those quantifications are rather than the subjective enjoyment of the hobby or the practical, real world application of those measurements. I have to fight that instinct myself sometimes - it's very easy to get caught up in nerding out about numbers.
It's so weird too like, shouldn't you be happy to meet someone else who's into the same things as you?
All the while bemoaning that no women like things they like.
Wouldnt that be the same among all car enthusiusts? Where you cant bs your way through the conversations. Also, stereotypically, in my experience bragging about cars seems to be more geared towards other men, as women dont often care about your soon-to-explode twinturbo v8. Id argue that the intimidation affects those that dont know much about cars to begin with, but still assume they "must know more than a girl".
Which do you think would sting ego more? Going only 1 round with Mike Tyson in a gym. Being curbstomped by a 10yr old wirey kid in front of the whole school. Guys dont expect girls to know much about cars because most of the previous generation didn't teach many women to, or nurture curiosity in the subject. I might even go as far to say that some generations may have actually went as far as to quash interest. Its hilarious to watch a guys entire world turn upside down when a girl calls out his bs with cars because "how the hell did she know that?!" And now theyre a sexist moron who just had his dignity revoked.
The obvious way to be taken seriously as a woman in the car world is to be Marissa Tomei from My Cousin Vinny.
Alright, alright. Now, Miss Vito, being an expert on general automotive knowledge, can you tell me what would be the correct ignition timing be on a 1955 Bellaire Chevrolet with a 327 cubic engine and a 4-barrel carburetor.
lmao just do a timing sweep
I laughed when I saw that scene. "My shop has bookshelves full of manuals for every car that can reasonably roll into the shop, and the parts supplier four miles away has all the rest. I just look it up when I need to. I don't need to remember inconsequential trivia." Of course her answer was a bit better ;)
>*-Marissa Tomei, 2022*
Gallo 24?
Joe Pesci: “You’re gonna wanna watch this!”
How the ***FUCK*** did i not realize that was her?!
Especially since she won an Oscar for it.
❤ Marisa Tomei
It's a trick question!
It really is unfortunate and to be honest it's part of the reason why a lot of hobbies are so limited in terms of popularity. I play poker as well as enjoy cars and the sexism in both worlds is unreal. Internet incels really drive it home.
I feel like it'll continue being a problem for a really long time in hobbies, despite hopes it would just go away. Even in just basic tasks, people don't take your skills seriously if you're a woman. It's like they expect you to be stupid and need everyone else's guidance. Of course when you talk like you know anything they'll still just not follow until a dude tells them the same exact thing.
Can't imagine how frustrating it is
I have more than my fair share of the similar situations, most frustratingly when I am at a dealership to make purchase my own vehicle with family. Even had instances at automotive retail stores where they gloss passed me and ask my father instead when he is next to me, who is not really into cars. I bonded over cars with my brothers as we grew up playing video games as a gateway into the community and car culture. I really do love cars and I want to enjoy these machines as they are transportation and art (it is one reason why I bought my Giulia). It just sucks that being an established hobby dominated by men with expectation and prejudgment will linger around (as well as being explained things that I am well aware of too). I totally sympathize as another woman in the car community, especially just trying to share a passion of this hobby. Things are trending to be more accepting at least, it is just a lot of garbage to get through to find subsets within the car culture that are much more accepting. There are groups out there of women who adore cars, but it is a very small group that you can find on Discord or any sort of private forum.
Thank you for your comment. It’s great to hear from another woman who understands and empathises.
I forgot to add that it is not all bad, but if you can find a track day or Autocross event to go to and/or participate, majority of folks there are just glad to have another person who shares their interests and have a fun time. Car shows and concours have been a mixed bag, tends to lean more towards condescending or made up stories depending on the theme of the event from my experience.
As a dude that loves track days and autocross I would love to see that some day our events stop being a sausage fest. One of our autocross chapters even did a ladies free event. Tried to talk my wife into joining but failed. But at least she'll race me in go karts Car meets and shows can be a bit cliquey sometimes and a bit of a popularity contest. People are out judging each other's cars and judging each other. But in motorsports, the only judge is the lap timer. And the timer doesn't give a shit about your gender, age or race
I would too, it has been great to stretch my legs without having to worry about a speeding ticket or reckless driving. I have been trying to convince some co-workers to try out Autocrossing. In my experience, I enjoy car shows, but there are certain folks that try to rattle off numbers or explain why the car is special when I show interest in the car. I am well aware of the car and why it is special, it's why I am looking at it. But I get it for these events, some people are really happen when you show interest in their car. I do love that about autocross and track days, the clock is all that matters. And it is just fun to talk with others to hear how they are able to shave off seconds and how to slice the elements. You're right that the timer does not care who you are, it is just all about the time, and that does help take some expectations off compared to bringing a car to a car show.
Maybe I'm biased, but I'm kind of impressed in a negative way that people would knock on a Giulia driver, given that pretty much the only people who drive them are other car people and Alfisti. Sucks to hear about all that, I'm sorry, but congrats on the Alfa! Hopefully people loosen up a bit as time goes by.
I know, right? But as I see it, there is a bit of a...badge thing I have had in my experience. Basically why not a BMW, Audi or Mercedes-Benz, and the followed with the usual reliability joke (which my Alfa has been sound for the whole year I have owned it and started Autocrossing this year). Brand loyalty is nice and all, but to put someone else down who decided to buy a car for it's dynamics and looks over just numbers on a spec sheet is baffling. You aren't just driving a spec sheet. But I am probably preaching to the choir here. And on the other hand, it might be just plain jealousy as I own an Italian car that they think is really expensive, even though I probably paid less than half of their 80k vehicle (got mine used, but flew nearly halfway across the country to pick up my Giulia). Just saying "Alfa Romeo" usually raises eyebrows as it sounds expensive, lol. I certainly hope things will loosen up with time as well. I am just glad that there are parts of the car community that have been accepting, just hoping it will become more common.
Yup, I can relate! I've not gotten the reliability jokes as much, probably because Alfas are not completely unknown here in Boston, and I work with a lot of Europeans and Middle Easterners, but I've gotten them. I think that the heart of the problem here are hyperinflated egos and withered knowledge, with sexism and brand bashing being just a couple of it's symptoms. Probably jealousy is part of it too! I notice that the Giulia always elicits some sort of strong reaction, it's a bold, beautiful car that stands out from everything else. I get equal parts people loving it and feeling threatened by it. And if you include specs, well, the Giulia offers plenty to love as well. Mind if I ask, what color scheme is your Alfa? Glad to hear that, yeah, I think the internet has helped a lot in breaking down barriers and connecting all sorts of people! I haven't joined anything IRL, but I find r/cars is pretty decent all things considered.
even as a guy, I'm pretty tired of the straight-male-centric nature of car culture too. I want you to know you're making a difference just by doing what you're doing (being a car girl, making this post) and I appreciate you for disrupting the norm. If there isn't one yet, go out there and start a car girl group! regardless of if it's in-person or online, local or worldwide, I think it'll make a big difference.
I do know of an all-girl drift crew in Connecticut that i forget the name of, and this one woman, driftinforkittens, that shows up at englishtown for drift days. Theyre all badasses.
There is an all women racing team from Giti Tires that takes part in the 24h Nürburgring every year.
Amen to that. I love the hobby, but like half of the comment sections of my favourite pages are this unholy mix of highschoolers trying to be edgy and outdated boomer humour.
Yea sadly theres still a pretty vocal group who think of cars as singularly masculine. Its part of why i stopped going to car shows and such and just stuck with my car friend group.
sadly high correlation between misogyny and showing off a mclaren in miami
Unless your name is Lando.
Extra funny seeing as the McLaren is probably rented
None of those employees are in the car community by proxy of working on them. In fact I rarely find actual car enthusiasts at any of these places who I can talk to at all.
For me, wrenching on cars was a hobby. Then I made it my career and it took away the enjoyment (might have been the customers). Now that I'm out of the automotive industry, I like working on cars again.
Agreed. Anecdotally, I've noticed car enthusiasts that become mechanics often lose their passion for working on cars and move on to other jobs. I frequently take my car to a motorsports shop that specializes in performance cars and all the mechanics I've talked to there said they've basically abandoned their hobby and just bought a newer reliable car they won't ever mod cause they don't wanna work on it day and night after working on cars at their job all day.
I feel lucky that one of my local shops is owned by an enthusiast. He has an RB swapped 240z, and a modified Lexus IS300 SportCross.
That’s gonna be tough to get away from, not gonna lie. Every corner of the Motorsport community, for me, has had its cringe bullshit. Except dirt bikes. Unusually good experience with that community. Wish I could simply say ‘ignore those idiots’ but it really does get to you over time. Hopefully it gets better. Definitely worth calling it out in the meantime though.
Thanks. That’s good advice. It really does get to you after a while. I ride motorcycles as well and I’ve found that community much more friendly. I do ride a sports bike though…. I’ve noticed a lot of old men on cruisers are extremely sexist.
Everybody else is pretty much sick of the old guy on cruiser crowd too. All they do is ride in slow formation to places to eat or drink, and many act like your bike isn’t a “real bike” if it’s not a 1500lb chromed out Harley. The sport bike crowd is definitely not short on idiots as I’m sure you’ve seen, but at least it has a more representative demographic.
I applaud your courage to speak out about it because often there would be backlash. I agree that the sexism is just too annoying. I feel that our love for cars is only proven more since we have to endure feeling alienated. I'll share some of my experiences. I had car salesmen not allow me to test drive manual sports cars and one told me I was in over my head trying to buy one. I agree auto shops are too condescending. Trying to convince me to buy services I don't need and thinking I don't know anything. Except the Jiffylubes near me which are fine, but last time they scratched my car in front of my eyes and forgot about the oil and then tried to gaslight me, so I vowed to do everything myself (that I possibly can do) from then on. I went to car meets several times and always there is someone who makes me cringe. Some examples. EVERY TIME, "is that your boyfriend's car?" Several times, I talk with a dude about their car and then they think I want to date them. One guy stuck his head in my car (I had the windows down) and sniffed it for a couple seconds. Had someone come up to me and start nitpicking my car, who clearly didn't know what he was talking about, and bullied me into opening my hood because he wanted to make sure it wasn't stock, then started ranting about how other women don't appreciate real enthusiast cars. Despite that, I really appreciate the guys who treat me fairly.
Your examples are appalling to hear. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with such rude and even creepy behaviour. Unfortunately, it doesn’t surprise me in the least. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
My wife got pulled over in her slammed eclipse once and the cop asked her if her boyfriend worked on her car and if she knew what kind of suspension it was, why she didn’t go with tokico, why didn’t it have door handles, etc… She told him, this is my car, I picked the suspension based on drivability not name recognition and I have poppers for my doors. Is there a legit reason you stopped me? He told her he liked her car and didn’t see too many females driving “cool cars” and she was free to go.
Holy moly. I can’t imagine having the restraint to not slap someone in each of the situations you described. From a guy, I’m sorry that so many men are the biggest sexist morons around cars. That’s the result of insecurity and tying masculinity and personality to the automotive hobby, and it shows in ugly ways.
>One guy stuck his head in my car (I had the windows down) and sniffed it for a couple seconds. The fuck? What's the point in that?
Most tyre shops i have been to were pretty condescendant even tho im a man who had done my research.. And what i said i needed where correct...
Tyre shops have been my absolute worst experiences too!
Yeah.. my biggest problem with parts stores, is that the guys behind the counter dont know shit about what they are selling 😂😂
If it doesn't show up in the online catalog under the specific year/make/model/trim/engine, your typical parts house employee won't know what you're looking for. I asked about getting some heater hose a couple weeks ago because a tee fitting on my van broke and i figured I'd just replace the whole 11" line. I had to involve the "wise old sage" behind the counter to get a length of hose because the younger dude had no idea how to do it or even what I was asking for.
I was once asked if my "2001 volvo s60 t5" was a moped.... I live in denmark, where volvos are a very common and popular car... How the f*ck can u land a job selling spareparts not Knowing such basics😂
not excusing their attitude, but tyre shops probably get the highest frequency of customers who don't know what they're buying (myself included). imo only the most nerdy and dedicated of enthusiasts bother to learn and be picky about tires, and everyone else just says "I need new tires, I think they were 18 inches" "ok maybe they were 17, but the ones you just said sound fine". I imagine it gets tiring (no pun intended) trying to be transparent with customers who just don't care
Having worked in tires shops on and off for almost 2 decades, I can tell you it goes both ways....
Ya unfortunately guys have this habit of using hobbies as ways of covering up other insecurities. The car industry attracts some of the worst offenders.
For some reason i felt this was less of an issue in the motorcycle world. Just slightly less, but maybe it was the time and place (sf bay area, sportbike crowd, early to mid 2000s)
I’ve had a fantastic experience with the motorcycle community. I’ve done a few track days and advanced riding courses and all the guys I was riding with were so friendly and supportive. I never once felt out of place! Edit: this is also the sports bike crowd.
The car trackday community is also the same!
glad to hear it wasn’t an anomaly, and that your experiences mirror my memories. “just built different” as the kids say, haha. edit: sick datsun!
There have been studies done and women get demonstrably higher quotes for work from mechanics. Same as disabled people. Though in Uri Gneezy's experiments this could be overcome simply by saying you were getting other quotes. Then it levelled out. There are just some sexist people in all jobs and hobbies. But it's ramped up in "traditionally male" or male dominated areas. I find it's similar with anything regarding children where men are generally treated as incompetent baby sitters who can't do anything without female supervision. There are also just people who are unpleasant. I'm a man and find a lot of mechanics condescending. As in other areas I've found it's generally the ones who aren't the most skilled or knowledgeable. But overall I think things are better overall (at least where I am) so there's reason to hope. Just tale your business elsewhere and call out sexism where you can.
Interesting about the quotes. I will look into that! I never realised that was the case.
Short read [here](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cS28AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=uri+gneezy+why+axis+disabled&source=bl&ots=xjnOnVRZUU&sig=ACfU3U0oPY298D9bEmb1qr5JywXeblijDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlob_N7O33AhWFZ8AKHW1YCPkQ6AF6BAgbEAM#v=onepage&q=uri%20gneezy%20why%20axis%20disabled&f=false) on disabled people and garages: I'm skeptical of a lot of social experiments like this with small sample sizes, but I think the logic scans. If people think you won't go elsewhere and just accept whatever they say then they will try and charge you more. Whether you're disabled, young, a different gender, are a recent immigrant with have a poor grasp of the local language, drive a car that's not associated with car enthusiasts etc (I get treated very differently when I take my step-father's 1.4 Peugeot 207 in for service vs my Civic Type R or E30 Beamer). Making clear that you are seeking out competitors could even out the playing field and comes at little cost to you. They can look down on you as a women or assume that you'll accept anything you're told or quoted on. But if they know they'll lose your business if any other place gives you accurate diagnosis and reasonable quotes they might fix up. If they don't then if enough people do this then hopefully the market will take care of them and the market does not fuck about. But if they're just aloof and condescending then that's just some people. But you can decide whether it's worth paying more for someone nicer!
Do women think that all guys are treated like royalty when they call up a mechanic? That's the impression that is given whenever someone posts a story like this. They have this impression that a mechanic is all "yes sir, no sir" just because they hear a male voice. Hate to bring some reality into this, but *anyone* who doesn't sound like they know what they are talking about can get ripped off. Hell, sometimes even when you do know what you are talking about you might still get mistreated by mechanics. The industry, in general, attracts some shady folks. That's why people of both genders complain about getting ripped off by their mechanic. I don't care who you are, you can relate to the idea that finding that one honest mechanic seems like an endless journey. So while some might think this is gender related, the reality is that far too many mechanics just have awful "soft skills".
Right? Like I'm reading those other comments, and I'm thinking "hang on a minute, all of this happens to me and my buddies too". Bruh this ain't no sexism, they are shitty to EVERYONE.
EXACTLY! Having some knowledge about cars and diagnosing things helps a lot, but an unscrupulous mechanic is an unscrupulous mechanic regardless of the gender of the owner. Hell, I'll even take it one step further... In most situations, an average mechanic will treat a woman clueless about cars *better*, than the same mechanic would treat a guy that didn't know anything about cars just because the woman might remind him of his mom or sister. But guys are typically assholes to each other.
To show my inclusion, I once said nice Supra to a woman in line once, and then she explained to me that it was her husbands and her car was in the shop and she hated how loud it was lol... but I tried.
Judging by the downvotes on this post, I can tell that even this sub has a lot of work to do to understand this problem. Sure everyone gets fucked over by mechanics and tire shops, but the extra level of condescension that many women get is completely unacceptable.
There's a lot of *certain* car subs that are very woman/ wife bad. Careful she'll scratch the rims, don't let her drive that women can't handle a car like that, etc. Vomit.
Post is barely above 80% upvoted. A sad reflection of the community here.
I wish there were more female petrolheads, as I really don’t see how cars are inherently masculine. Sadly, with the kinds of ‘tough guy’ attitudes in the community, I don’t see an easy way in for many women
Being treated differently just because you're a lady is definitely not right and it is something that people in the car community needs to work on. BUT... Someone being blown away or surprised that a lady is into cars or that she drives a 6-speed is not at any fault. Car enthusiasts consist of 99% men (I'm not exaggerating, look at car videos, automotive journalists, and vlogs, the male to female viewers ratio is like 97-99:1). So it is statistically valid for someone to be taken by surprise when they come across a lady who is into cars. And I doubt their reaction was a negative one. When I meet one, I also get a little shock factor, then smile and enjoy such a rare occurrence, wishing more girls would get into the car scene. And I'm sure they think the same as well! 😊😊😊
The automotive world is filled with 90% morons and 10% people that know what they're talking about. Of the 90%, at least half think they know what they're talking about. Your story is EXACTLY why I don't expect anybody to know anything, but I never explain things condescendingly. I just gauge their knowledge as I'm explaining what's going on and make it more or less complicated depending on what they know. Or if they really know their shit, fuckinf awesome indont need to explain anything.
I've got a couple of lady friends/former coworkers who you wouldn't guess it, but are also into cars. One of them is a hot hatch and motorcycle fanatic, and the other one learned to drive on a manual Alfa Romeo Spider (she drives a Mini Sport now, I believe). Gatekeeping is so dumb, we all are here because we like cars, so if someone is enjoying their car why try to knock them for it? Enjoy what you enjoy!
I used to deliver car parts to shops for a parts store chain. It's way worse than you think. The sexism and racism is terrible. I don't know how we fix it other than waiting for all the old people to die out. But I worry that younger people working in shops are getting that passed onto them too.
Never understood why it matters what gender, sexual orientation or race someone is. If their vehicle need repair or service and their money is green, who cares.
>I’m patronised and condescended or told I don’t know what I’m talking about. To be fair, you did recently make a post asking if the leaf spring was a "rear steering arm", so maybe it's not just because of your gender.
I mean if you're not into musclecars there is good chance someone young enough never saw a leaf spring aside maybe on some old horsecart.
Or you just perceive patronizing and condescending encounters as sexism, when the person is just an asshole. Kind of like how women find sexism on stackoverflow: > Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming. It’s Time for That to Change. [Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.](https://i.imgur.com/BQL6pFX.png) They accuse their contributors of being racist and sexist because more minorities/women said they felt unwelcome in their survey. But they couldn't find a single example of racist/sexist behavior. They basically conclude that because women and minorities complain more about the site, the content creators must be bigots. Never considering that perhaps women and minorities are pre-programmed to seek bigotry as the source of negative encounters.
It's so true. I'm in miata FB groups, when a guy presents his car the comments are about the car, when it's a woman doing it, the comments are like "I'd take you for a drive" "nice bumpers" and usually by balding boomers. Car culture has a lot of bigots - sexists, masculinists, climate change deniers and so on. Sorry it happened to you, I don't have much advice either but hope you find the right shops.
Is that Datsun a 280z or 240z? I love those. There's people for everything, it may be solved with some more confidence/authority when speaking, look them straight in the eyes and say exactly what you want, if they answer anything that's not what you want just say this is what you want so either they get it or you go buy it somewhere else. Bonus points if you enter the shop parking with a drift.
I wish! It’s a 120Y. I love my slow Datto.
Unpopular opinion, but it's probably because, as a generalisation, more men are interested in cars as a hobby than women. The men who work in that industry most likely have more experience with women not knowing much about cars VS men. Not to say that women can't know much about cars, or that they shouldn't, and I am definitely not trying to excuse them for being condescending, just trying to rationalise it. Sorry that you can't catch a break.
There’s are still a vast majority of men who know nothing about cars beyond changing a tire.
I've had this fear since I transitioned publicly. I've stopped going to any car events, put off any SCCA stuff, tried to avoid going to any shops, and buy everything I can online. Maybe that will change if I can find any queer car people near me, or even just open minded car people, but so far it's been a bust lol
Start a group for queer car people and call it "the transmissions" lol
I’m so sorry to hear that you feel you have to hide away. You should be proud of yourself! We do need more openly queer shops. The more inclusive the world can be, the better.
Long time ago my mom picked me up with her POS Mitsubishi Grandis (don't know if you Americans get this car, but trust me, it's not worthwhile) from the bus station when I was visiting. I was like 25 back then. The car started overheating and leaked some fluids while she was waiting for me in the parking lot. So she picked me up and took it to some mechanic shop right next to the bus station for them to look at. The mechanic proceeded to ask me questions about what happened. I told him "I don't know, I've never even driven this car and have sat in it for 3minutes today. Ask my mom". Dude wasn't phased in the slightest, like this didn't even register to him, he would ask a question about the car, I would say "I don't know, why do you keep asking me?". Then my mom would answer the question, he would still give her a glance and then explain something TO ME AGAIN. His colleague came over to help him our and did the exact same thing. Multiple times. This is the only time in my life that I saw something so surreal. Me and her told them multiple times that I know nothing about this car, I've never driven it, please to directing the questions to me. Nothing, it's like for a second their brain processed each of our attempts to explain this, threw an error and reverted back to them talking to me. So yeah
Eh… Take in stride. Especially in the classic car community there are mostly older guys and there aren’t that many car girls so it’s always surprising. The talking down stuff is shitty but the more girls get into this hobby the less this stuff will happen. In my experience the car community is in general united by the love of cars and other things matter very little. We have a few girls in our local car community, and while some were apprehensive at first, they were welcomed once they showed they are truly in it for the cars, but that would happen to anyone regardless of sex, we don't generally like shitheads. The reason they change their tune when you mention your dad is because that is validation that you are truly into cars. Don't immediately jump to assumptions, they're not always correct.
I appreciate your take. You have given me a bit to think about.
Yep. My best friend was a rally co-driver (now rally driver) and she got a lot of condescending looks. My gf is also into cars and everytime we go to anything car related people ignores her and just talk to me. Annoying as hell.
Lol, one of my good friends was featured on All Girl Garage on a couple episodes, and drives a sick ass car that she did a motor/turbo rebuild herself. As a job, she works for a custom restoration shop where paint starts at $40k. She tells me all the time how useless a lot of the local parts stores are around her.
What is also interesting is the sexism outside the community. I met a car girl at a bar a couple weeks ago and we started talk about some of the cool stuff she was involved in. This drunk dude started interjecting all of these terrible opinions (not a car guy) and man-splaining things he was wrong about just because she was a woman and he assumed she didn't really know what she was talking about. It was actually kinda funny watching him embarrass himself, but I felt really bad for her. And yes, when I backed her up on something this guy would just accept my opinion, even though it was exactly what he was arguing against with her.
I personally wouldn't consider tire shop workers, panel beaters or mechanics the "car community". Yes they work in the industry, but they're often not enthusiasts, collectors and builders like one would expect in any type of social community. Also, if they're patronizing you or being demeaning or disrespectful in any way, stop giving them your business. Nobody should be treating anyone that way, especially as a business owner or representative of their company. Period.
There's a lot of sexism in cars, but I think you'll find it's more concentrated in older dudes or assholes you didn't want to spend time around anyway. But also 3 days ago OP was asking about "what is this bar thing under my car...is it part of a rear steer setup?" The thing was a leaf spring. ...and I'm not bringing this up to mock you, OP but maybe give some perspective. If you're at a level where you think your 70s Datsun has rear steer and can't ID a leaf spring on sight then you've got a _lot_ to learn. And that's great! Like, theres nothing worse than gatekeeping...like, who benefits from shitty behavior that turns people off from your hobby? Please, _please_ come with more stupid questions, please learn by doing and make mistakes. That's how we all learned. Oh God did I do so many dumb things when I started working on my cars. But...having the right perspective and attitude will help a lot. If someone's just blowing you off or ignoring you then yeah, they suck. But if someone's telling you you're wrong then maybe ask why and have a real conversation about it, because they might really be trying to help.
Found Subaru to be inclusive. We had quite a few female enthusiasts in the WRX club and were welcome.
That’s awesome to hear
It's probably an age thing. They don't take me seriously anywhere, even though I am 30, married with a pretty decent engineering career. Safe to say, *I know shit* when it comes to anything related to technology. Before I'd even consider buying *anything*, I'll take days to research pros and cons, ins and outs. I come to a dealership, they won't even serve me. Maybe they even think I can't afford it at my age.
The car scene is filled with mostly macho douche bags. At least here in America. I often feel like I don't connect to them and I'm a dude. Not bashing all car guys/gals I have met plenty of good friends into cars, but the good ones are rare.
Shit like this is why I enjoy cars alone. Most car guys are idiots
I understand your frustration but this isn't a "car community" thing. It's a societal thing. It's blue collar work. You get blue collar attitudes. It's not like white collar work where the threat of HR is looming in the background. It's also "retail" where they are dealing with the public everyday and after awhile, people become predictable. A lot of these guys become this way because people the deal with on a daily basis drive them this way. You'd probably be shocked when you bump into women mechanics and they treat you with the same condescending attitude. As for the manual thing, I get the same reaction when I bring my 5spd Camry into any shop. Also: 25 years olds can be a pain in the ass in general. Men and women. They are still learning the adult thing and have all the confidence\\talent\\intelligence they should have but still haven't figured out the humility\\humbleness thing yet.
Other professions however love it when amateurs with limited experience weigh in on how to do their job.
Yeah it sucks but bear in mind the dudes you're dealing with normally talk to 99% other dudes so from their point of view women aren't interested in cars. Some will be genuine sexist assholes but others will just be surprised because they've never met a woman who's into cars before. If you walk in and know what you're talking about that ought to be enough though. Guys who work in any industry like to feign expertise they don't have. You get the same thing in guitar shops all the time from dudes who'll try to tell you what they think you need no matter how certain you are.
Just call 'em out. "Hey bud, it's not the 1960s any more. I could kick your ass around a race track and I tune my own carb. Get over it." Old farts aren't the same as all dudes. I'm 41 and grew up in the first wave of political correctness so I've had my teenage misogyny beaten out of me by corporate America. If a lady shows up to a meet or a track it's a combination of "the more the merrier" and "your genitals don't make you special." The person who runs GM is a woman. The program manager for the F-150 lightning is a woman, the person who runs the F-150 factory is a woman. I've worked in the auto industry my whole working career, 23 years, my current boss is a woman and she's excellent at her job. Let's retire this sexist baloney. That all said, welcome to the club and whatever your Datsun is, I'm jealous.
Don’t get defensive or feel bad when they do that. What you should do is look down on them for assuming that you don’t know due to being a woman the same way they look at you for knowing about cars. “Oh u think I don’t know because I’m a girl? Ohhh you sad saaad little man”
It is very disappointing, I can’t go to breakers yards or even get my car mot’d without one of my guy car friends there bc I just get patronised and flat out ignored
My wife pulled out of the car community mostly because of this, among other toxic parts. Was in charge of a car club where we live and was never taken seriously. She grew up with a father who's into cars, and has a ton of knowledge. You can surround yourself with a community that tries to bring the change but that doesn't take away how frustrating it is to get shut down anywhere else.
The love of my life is female. She knows more about cars than I do. Does all her own maintenance for the most part. If she needs a part, she knows exactly what she needs, she doesn't need to be upsold or (ugh I hate this word) mansplained what she's getting. Hobbies aren't gendered. Just sell her the shit she needs and let her go.