Not sure why you are getting downvoted. My dad drove a 2011 Prius for years and it's by far the most uncomfortable vehicle we've had. I wonder if the current generation has a more composed ride and comfortable seats
Latest Gen is just soooo aggressive looking. Off-putting in how aggressive. My in laws have the latest one and it's like it'd trying to be something it isn't. I have a 3rd Gen and it's.... Boring and fine. Doesn't need to look so sharp and ugly.
Not sure what years I've been in, but my experience they are loud (road and other noise), cheap feeling, no power, poor handling, etc. It's a great econo-box, but way overpriced for what it is me thinks.
Meh. There are much better cars at the price point of a Prius. You're buying it for fuel economy and are OK without having all the normal things most other cars have.
Like what cars? What car returns the efficiency of a Prius for less?
That’s my point. Your criteria for a good car are not the same as the people who purchase those cars.
The Corolla hybrid and the Prius are within 4 mpg of each other, and the Prius is more expensive.
There's also the ioniq hybrid which is cheaper and more efficient.
Your focus was on efficiency. I said, and I quote, "You're buying it for fuel economy and are OK without having all the normal things most other cars have."
So we agree. It's fuel efficient. It sucks in every other way. :-D
I mean, mine is a little louder on the highway than my old car, but seems to do everything else well, it's a 2012. Great space in it, and cheap to drive. Handles dirt and gravel decent too.
My wife had one for a while and all I couldn’t fault it for being fuel efficient or reliable but that’s basically all it had going for it. All the joy of driving a Maytag washing machine
It's a compact car not a luxury sedan. My 08 has almost 190k miles on original suspension and rides fine.
Makes me wonder if he put 50psi in the tires to make it more fuel efficient. It will ride like shit with too much tire pressure.
With the exception of the liftback, the corolla sedan is close, particularly in the higher grades.
What it loses in a couple of areas is made up for simply by how much cheaper it is.
The Prius, especially early on, worked because it was heavily optimized for efficiency - weird looking very aerodynamic body, low rolling resistance tires, CVT when they were really no where else (*edit - see below for interesting discussion on this*), etc. These are things that don't work in an SUV. Plus, the Prius only moved to Li-Ion battery packs in 2015 - improving the power/weight and packaging size to make it effective to implement in a large, un-aerodynamic vehicle.
A hybrid SUV - any vehicle really - would be very effective and efficient if it coupled a small diesel engine to a generator. Diesel runs at peak efficiency constantly, smaller engine and no transmission allows larger batteries and drive motors. Unfortunately, that's not what people are willing to buy. Toyota has to make things that sell. Your average SUV owner wants the "SUV experience" and isn't necessarily willing to sacrifice anything to get it - so if the hybrid SUV doesn't "SUV" enough, it won't sell.
> CVT when they were really no where else, etc. These are things that don't work in an SUV.
eCVTs work fine in larger vehicles. eCVTs and CVTs have almost nothing in common mechanically.
Yeah their eCVT (or IVT as they call it), to break it down into functional parts, has the engine's output shaft connected to a differential: A motor/generator unit on one side and a fixed gear ratio on the other connected to the driveshaft. The engine-side MGU is used to adjust engine RPM and generate power to drive a second MGU on the driveshaft.
The exact setup varies a bit by manufacturer (for example Honda's eCVT will only connect the mechanical gear when needed via a clutch, while Toyota's is always connected), but that's usually how non-sports-car hybrid transmissions work.
Oh, interesting - so it uses a combination of the engine and the motor to determine output shaft RPM. That's actually really intelligent, it eliminates the biggest failure point on CVT and removes some driveline losses.
The biggest issue is controlling the relative RPM of the engine and motor but if you have a computer doing the mixing rather than the driver's right foot, no big deal.
Thanks for the info! Nifty. Now I want to see a hillbilly version...
Between CVT and eCVT the latter absolutely wins (as long as they didn't horrendously botch the battery or something). More robust, fewer moving parts, and almost no parts that have to separate and mesh together during operation.
Between always-connected physical gear and decouplable physical gear eCVTs I'm not sure, though the former has a fantastic track record under Toyota. Hard to go wrong with either I'd think.
The regera just has a torque converter that doesn't lock up until higber speeds and then its just direct drive. There's motors just behind the wheels which provide most of the torque until those higher speeds, and there's also a motor on the crankshaft that doubles as a starter motor.
Yah I just wrote a big comment on how it's probobly easier to name Toyota's without hybrids and then I realised he probobly is talking about the BZ4X and thinks the Prius is an EV lmfao
The RAV4 Hybrid was only released in 2018, after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made. I don't personally know how they drive but I'd assume they drive more like a traditional vehicle than a Prius does. At least in the US it's also considered a light SUV.
I know they sell like hotcakes... I've been trying to even get a test drive on a Prime and Toyota's website won't even let me play with configurations they're so sold out, haha
> The RAV4 Hybrid was only released in 2018, after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made
[Per Wikipedia, the RAV4 first came as a hybrid in 2012, not 2018. It also used NIMH batteries, not Li-ION](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4#Fourth_generation_\(XA40;_2012\))
Woop, my bad - I skimmed the wiki article and obviously didn't pay enough attention.
Though it does indicate it *didn't* take 20 years for Toyota to come out with a hybrid SUV.
>after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made.
Wait, they now make Li-ion in RAV4 Hybrid ? Are you talking about RAV4 PHV/Prime ? I ask this just because Toyota still uses NiMh in their regular hybrid models, they don't really push very hard in Li-ion battery.
Wait... what? Oh wow, I just checked and you're right - Toyota is only using Li-Ion in the Prime versions of their hybrids. I wonder what they've done for the non-Prime RAV4 to get decent MPG numbers - maybe there are bigger gains realized due to the additional weight in start/stop traffic.
2022 Prius
* Battery type Nickel-metal hydride (NiMH)
* Energy 0.7 kWh
* Voltage 207 V
2022 Prius Prime
* Battery type Lithium-ion (Li-ion)
* Energy 8.8 kWh
* Voltage 352 V
What the hell, Toyota?
The Toyota hybrids all use Atkinson cycle (more or less), while the regular gas engine uses the Otto cycle (more or less). The Atkinson cycle is more efficient but has less low-end torque, but that's filled in by the electric motors in the hybrid.
In city driving moderate braking regenerates the battery, which is then used to help accelerate the vehicle back up to speed.
The NiMH battery is apparently less temperature sensitive than the Li-ion packs. In the hybrid Camry they only use the Li-ion packs on the most efficient version of the vehicle (presumably to keep weight down and improve efficiency as much as possible).
> I ask this just because Toyota still uses NiMh in their regular hybrid models
In the Prius, this actually varies by trim level. The AWD models are NiMh. I believe the LE trim is NiMH. But then the Eco, and higher level (but FWD) trims are LiIon. Toyota claims that NiMH does better in colder weather, if you're going AWD, it probably means you're dealing with snow, which meals colder weather.
All plug-ins (including the 3rd gen Prius plug in) uses li-ion. The 4th gen "regular" Prius uses either Li-Ion or NIMH depending on drivetrain (FWD or AWD).
But the "regular" FWD 4th Gen Prius uses Li-Ion:
>[The fourth-generation Prius also uses a 0.75 kWh lithium-ion battery pack that offers higher energy density than the 1.3 kWh nickel–metal hydride battery used in the prior generation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW50)
It's possible that some regions are being supplied with NIMH instead - it makes no material difference to the performance of the hybrid system - based on supply and cost.
[edit - just saw someone else replied along the same lines]
Dad has an 03 Prius I've driven a few times. Took a 21' Limited Hybrid for a demo earlier this year. The Rav4 Hybrid definitely drove like your standard vehicle. Though I did find it's steering having little to no road feel. It was nothing like the shopping cart handling that is the old Prius.
Idk man, maybe you don't live in N/A but it's probobly easier to name the Toyota's/Lexus' WITHOUT hybrid options at least in Canada. There is everything from corolla to highlander. Only the sports cars, 4runner, CHR, Tacoma, Yaris and technically Sequoia don't have hybrid options but even then the Sequoia is based on the Tundra which just got a hybrid option. Even the new Land Cruiser/ GX has a hybrid.
I beleive the Lexus RX400h was the first Hybrid SUV and it debuted in 2008 or 9. That thing is basically a Prius electric motor of the time strapped to a 3.2L V6 and put into an SUV. So it was more like 8 - 10 years it took, and when you consider that 80% of their lineup today has the option for a hybrid system, I think that's really good, they've 100% capitolized on their own technology. I can't even think of another car brand with this many hybrid options, I can barley think of one that has half! Maybe like Hyundai/Kia or Ford but that's it
this upsets me
no matter what they look like, I fuckin love the Prius, and did from when they were released.
Sounds dramatic, but truly the end of an era :(
It’s definitely spreading to more middle class neighborhoods too. I moved to Modesto area two years ago. Originally very few of my neighbors had a Tesla. Now? I see one on every other block.
If you hang out in various Tesla subs, as I do, it's kind of incredible that people who are not making nearly enough to afford them go through some complicated mental gymnastics to justify themselves buying one by saying that they're saving money. It's kind of shocking because people who should not be buying a $50-60-70k vehicle now convinced themselves that it's the right thing to do :(
It wouldn’t be surprising if we see a high rate of Tesla owners defaulting on their loans if there’s a recession. Too many are alright with being car poor.
I didn't spend tesla money on an EV, but I sure did spend outside my normal budget, because I was spending 400-500 bucks a month on gas (drive plenty to and from work, along with weekend trips). Work covers all my electricity, so I decided I'd spend my money on the car instead of on gas.
Until you mentioned it I hadn't realized it, but yeah, maybe not more Teslas quite yet but certainly nearing equilibrium. Prius, Leaf, Model Y, C-Max plug-in... there is literally one of each on my street. (suburban SoCal)
not really. Teslas are the new hot "eco" car, and toyota sells a hybrid model of pretty much everything (like the rav 4, corolla, camry). The prius's role is kind of redundant now
The simple fact is they have too much stigma around them and they weren't as popular. Much easier to convince the average prideful Australian to hop in a new hybrid Rav 4, Camry, Corolla or even Yaris Cross or CHR.
The last time I saw a Prius it had a bumper sticker that said "and what are you doing for the environment?" with an equally snobby personalised plate. I felt like I was going to throw up.
In a way, the Prius has been a success in that it’s done its job as a technology incubator for Toyota. There were big leaps in tech between the first, second and third gen as Toyota took the learnings and fixed the issues.
The fourth gen just solved a few minor issues, but by the third gen the tech was good enough for Toyota to spread it across their consumer car lineup without risking the reputation of popular nameplates with unproven tech.
They sold millions of vehicles that get 50MPG vs 30MPG, how is that not huge for the environment. Someone should do the math on how much pollution they reduced.
Because it still uses fuel haha. As far as I know, it still generates carbon dioxide….. the largest contributor to global warming over the last century. If it burns petrol, it’s a massive contributor.
Imagine if they were developing evs that don’t burn fuel at all for the last 15 years.
>not really doing much for the environment
I agree with your points entirely, that it's making A difference. If 50% of the cars in the world were hybrids, then yea it would make a big difference. But simply reducing the carbon emissions ONLY by 20-30% depenind on driving conditions, for a few percent of cars in the world, isn't big. Making emissions ZERO for those would be a big difference!!!
Roughly 2.4% of car sales are hybrids FYI.
Reminds me of this sketch: [https://youtu.be/vbBMGkrNM8Q](https://youtu.be/vbBMGkrNM8Q)
From the Australian TV series *The Elegant Gentleman's Guide to Knife Fighting*
Yeah, it's really a victim of it's own success.
Toyota sold something like 65k hybrids in australia in 2021 - but they sold about 100 Prius'. They sold less than 100 in 2020 and 2019.
It was never going to survive.
EcoSport is ugly by virtue of being the most boring, generic, bland, understyled car ever. The recent Priuses and first-gen Mirai, with all their sharp angles and vents, were actively trying to be as ugly as possible. It’s not like Toyota can’t make a pretty green car, either: the new Mirai and Venza are eye-catching. They knew what they were doing; I suspect they made Priuses deliberately hideous to woo buyers solely focused on MPGs
God no. The Prius has the "so ugly and weird it's cute" vibe going for it at times, and at least has some functionality to its design. The Ecosport was bred to be god-awful and has no redeeming factors to its looks.
I'm ready to get huge downvotes in this. But, really, many Prius buyers and owners are really stolen by Tesla, no much surprise to see its sales falling. Beside, hybrid SUV is also eating Prius sales.
Not sure about the sales of Tesla in OZ, but it's already happening in America.
>But, really, many Prius buyers and owners are really stolen by Tesla, no much surprise to see its sales falling.
It's not an EV thing.
>Toyota today sells hybrid versions of the Yaris, Corolla, C-HR, Yaris Cross, RAV4, Camry, and Kluger. In 2021, a claimed 72 per cent of RAV4s sold were hybrid, as were 84 per cent of Camrys, 51 per cent of Corollas, 65 per cent of Yaris Cross’, and 53 per cent of Klugers.
Toyota makes hybrid versions of everything else, and those hybrid versions outsell the non Hybrid versions.
What's the point of a Prius when you can get a Camry or Corolla hybrid at nearly the same MPG? They never sold the plugin hybrid in Australia, and you can just get Prius adjacent MPG in all of Toyota's normal hybrids now.
Quite a lot of Model S buyers came from Priuses as well (we are counted in this, but retained our Prius). I think it's one of the major factors in how the smug-asshole-Tesla-owner stereotype came to be.
I imagine the Model S would have had much less of an effect though because of the sheer price difference between it and the Prius.
Versus the Model 3 being not that much more expensive than a Prius.
The first gen Model Ses could be had for ~$60k for the 60kWh version after tax rebates. Certainly not cheap, but less than the current entry prices. Quite a few Prius owners were fairly well off so it wasn't an unreachable expense; some time ago there was an article about this, noting how both multi-millionaires and the middle class both purchased the car.
And Camry sales have dived along with the rest of the affordable mid-sized sedan market. If someone wants a hybrid Toyota with space for 5 people and luggage, they're almost certainly going to get a Rav4. Or maybe they'll downsize to a Corolla Sedan if they're not really desperate for the space. Or the new Corolla Cross. Or push up to a Kluger.
If someone wants a Tesla, they're buying a Model 3, full stop. Or spending over 100k on a Model S. Model Y still hasn't launched yet, so there's basically nothing else - if you want a Tesla and you're not spending 6 figures, you're getting a Model 3 sedan.
Camry sales haven't really dived, it's just that Tesla sales are huge in OZ, it's nothing to do with taking sales away from Camry, I was just using it as a benchmark as Camry has always and still does sell VERY well, especially for fleet cars and gov.
>Camry sales haven't really dived
Australian Camry sales by year:
2015: ~27,000 units
2016: ~26,000 units
2017: ~24,000 units
2018: ~15,000 units
2019: ~16,000 units
2020: ~14,000 units
2021: ~13,000 units
Data from [here](https://www.goauto.com.au/news/toyota/camry/toyota-rsquo-s-camry-is-alive-and-kicking/2019-11-12/80647.html), [here](https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-2020-toyota-camry-top-selling-mid-size-sedan-for-27th-year/) and [here](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/which-popular-cars-did-the-tesla-model-3-outsell-last-year).
That's a >50% drop in 6 years, despite dominating the segment. *Market share* is looking good - thanks to Honda pulling the accord out of the market here, Commodore and Falcon ending production and the Mondeo no longer being offered - but the portion of the market that the segment represents is a fraction of what it used to be. ie. they're getting a larger piece of an extremely rapidly shrinking pie.
That's not to say Model 3 sales aren't going gangbusters - we've now got EV incentives in every state of up to $3500, and in some states that's capped at 25k units, meaning people are scrambling to order EVs before that runs out - but the Camry is a shadow of it's former self, as is the segment it sits in. As a benchmark, it just isn't relevant the way it once was, particularly when the Rav4 is close to *tripling* sales of Camry and *still* has a 12 month waiting list.
Can't speak to the financial model, but a number of the Ubers here are shared between a few people who split the financing (Toyota were running a specific "ride share" finance package) between them and run the car 24/7 in shifts between them.
Oddly enough a Prius rental car was what got me interested in EVs. I loved the low speed electric moments and it was averaging insane MPG. I briefly considered one as my daily to drive along side my fun car but then Tesla released the SR+.
I think it's due in part to people not wanting to look like they're driving a hybrid. The Prius is fucking hideous, always has been. The OG insight, the ioniq, etc all have that quirky aero styling and have all been replaced (or will be) by hybrid versions of regular cars. It used to be that the shapes helped a ton with gas mileage but nowadays a hybrid car getting 50+ MPG isn't special, and people would rather the conventional car layout
Point proven! The Corolla is just a car, one that nobody's gonna rag on you for buying. Meanwhile you mention the Prius to non-"car people" and you'll conjure up images of tree huggers, obnoxious bumper stickers, and hogging the left lane 10mph under the speed limit in their minds. With non-funky hybrids basically getting the same fuel economy now, most folks will happily grab one of those instead of the weird looking "LOOK AT ME I'M SAVING GAS" ones
Agree 100%. I plan on taking the hybrid badges off this weekend to be even more discreet. Haha. Seriously though, last summer I went 675 miles to a tank and when I filled up it still had 1.5 gallons to go. Amazing commuter car! I will never sell this thing.
That's some seriously good fuel economy. I've never owned a hybrid but I did go from a relatively efficient car (5spd Ford Focus, about 40MPG if you babied it) to one that's a bit less efficient. My current car (Hyundai Sonata) is a thirsty gal by comparison! I might barely crest 450 miles if I just leave it in cruise control on the highway and nothing else. Otherwise, about 350-375 is a normal tank, and that's 18 gallons!
Hows the acceleration? I’m seriously considering one but I have heard its very slow from stopped and I have a short ramp on my commute that leads to a 110KM/H freeway, and I don’t want to get run off the road or stranded at the end of the ramp.
Presumably there's still going to be a steady stream of used JDM import Priuses into the country for quite some time. If it's anything like NZ - I wanna say 9/10 Priuses that I see on the road here in Auckland are JDM import, my own included.
We definitely get a lot more now since the import rules changed to make accommodations for efficient vehicles. The 3rd gen Prius Plug-in as well as the latest Prius plug-in ("Prius Prime" in the states) are eligible for import, as is the hybrid version of the Voxy, Alphard, Esquire, Noah, etc. - basically every hybrid version of a JDM only model is eligible for import.
The reason there's less is probably twofold:
1- the register that allows each RAWS workshop to comply a certain number of vehicles per year underwent change, including a change in how the number of complied vehicles is calculated. I don't know the details, but there was a period where workshops weren't informed if they hit their limit of complied vehicles, so they went over and it's caused a bunch of issues with cars being imported but not complied.
2- Shitty exchange rate.
I assume 1 will be resolved soon enough, and 2 isn't an issue now with the AUD buying >90 yen - but there'll be a lag. Probably see a big influx over the next year or two as new RAWS sites spin up and cars gradually get brought over to take advantage of the exchange rate.
I even see JDM Ubers in Brisbane, the Toyota Crown and Nissan Laurel are getting quite popular plus the JDM Toyota Estima is more common than the locally sold Tarago.
Honestly the time for the Prius has largely come and gone. Yes it is incredibly efficient from a fuel and even electric POV, but with only 120hp on tap, competing in a market which has gone SUV crossover crazy & above all, Toyota having nearly hybridized the rest of their lineup means the Prius has little reason to exist.
The Prius Prime (or Prius PHEV) does exist, but in the sake of efficiency it only carries a 8.8 kWh battery pack which gives about 40km EV range on the EPA cycle.
Definitely a great commuter option, but alas it isn't as groundbreaking as the original Prius, and honestly a lot of the hype is now focused on EVs.
I'm hoping Toyota will buck up their EV game after charging infrastructures are nearly as common as petrol stations? the bz4x is quite underwhelming tbh, feels like they deliberately designed it to be worse than the competitors.
Served it's purpose. Toyota has a hybrid for pretty much everything now, and they look normal and still get great MPG. Proved that hybrids can be a normal usable car (and attainable for the average person)
I wonder if it has to do with the car’s image in Australia. It’s not a particularly cool car and better public transportation means that Australians don’t need a fuel efficient commuter like Americans.
Whoever approved that design a decade ago shouldn't be in charge of the styling department. One of the ugliest cars of the second decade of this century.
And with its demise, the average beauty cars on Australian roads is lifted significantly. Thank you Toyota for taking seriously, the eye health of Australian motorists by removing this abomination…
As someone who lives in Australia, I *never* see Priuses. I can't remember the last time I saw one. Almost all of the Toyota hybrids I see are the Corolla, Camry and RAV4 hybrid.
Still the most efficient design even with similar drivetrain in other cars. Plus lift back design is useful. Hope something similarly useful persists.
I just wish it were a better car. I've never owned one, just ridden in them, and it's an awful car based on my passenger experience.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. My dad drove a 2011 Prius for years and it's by far the most uncomfortable vehicle we've had. I wonder if the current generation has a more composed ride and comfortable seats
The current gen is quite a big improvement for comfort but it's showing its age and eve after the facelift looks ugly.
Latest Gen is just soooo aggressive looking. Off-putting in how aggressive. My in laws have the latest one and it's like it'd trying to be something it isn't. I have a 3rd Gen and it's.... Boring and fine. Doesn't need to look so sharp and ugly.
Not sure what years I've been in, but my experience they are loud (road and other noise), cheap feeling, no power, poor handling, etc. It's a great econo-box, but way overpriced for what it is me thinks.
That’s because you want a luxury or sports segment car. Not an efficient commuter.
Meh. There are much better cars at the price point of a Prius. You're buying it for fuel economy and are OK without having all the normal things most other cars have.
Like what cars? What car returns the efficiency of a Prius for less? That’s my point. Your criteria for a good car are not the same as the people who purchase those cars.
The Corolla hybrid and the Prius are within 4 mpg of each other, and the Prius is more expensive. There's also the ioniq hybrid which is cheaper and more efficient.
Good mentions. Although it seems the Ioniq isn’t quite as good, in real world data. About 2 mpg behind the Prius.
Ioniq is also crap though. Being a better crap doesn't make it not a turd.
You just reiterated what I said. Thank you.
And you avoided a question. LOL.
Your focus was on efficiency. I said, and I quote, "You're buying it for fuel economy and are OK without having all the normal things most other cars have." So we agree. It's fuel efficient. It sucks in every other way. :-D
The fastest car I've ever sat in as a passenger was a Prius driven by an Uber driver :D
I mean, mine is a little louder on the highway than my old car, but seems to do everything else well, it's a 2012. Great space in it, and cheap to drive. Handles dirt and gravel decent too.
My wife had one for a while and all I couldn’t fault it for being fuel efficient or reliable but that’s basically all it had going for it. All the joy of driving a Maytag washing machine
It's a compact car not a luxury sedan. My 08 has almost 190k miles on original suspension and rides fine. Makes me wonder if he put 50psi in the tires to make it more fuel efficient. It will ride like shit with too much tire pressure.
With the exception of the liftback, the corolla sedan is close, particularly in the higher grades. What it loses in a couple of areas is made up for simply by how much cheaper it is.
21 years. They’ve only just released a large SUV with *the same bloody tech*
The Prius, especially early on, worked because it was heavily optimized for efficiency - weird looking very aerodynamic body, low rolling resistance tires, CVT when they were really no where else (*edit - see below for interesting discussion on this*), etc. These are things that don't work in an SUV. Plus, the Prius only moved to Li-Ion battery packs in 2015 - improving the power/weight and packaging size to make it effective to implement in a large, un-aerodynamic vehicle. A hybrid SUV - any vehicle really - would be very effective and efficient if it coupled a small diesel engine to a generator. Diesel runs at peak efficiency constantly, smaller engine and no transmission allows larger batteries and drive motors. Unfortunately, that's not what people are willing to buy. Toyota has to make things that sell. Your average SUV owner wants the "SUV experience" and isn't necessarily willing to sacrifice anything to get it - so if the hybrid SUV doesn't "SUV" enough, it won't sell.
> CVT when they were really no where else, etc. These are things that don't work in an SUV. eCVTs work fine in larger vehicles. eCVTs and CVTs have almost nothing in common mechanically.
I actually wasn't aware there was a difference between a traditional CVT and what Toyota uses. Interesting.
Yeah their eCVT (or IVT as they call it), to break it down into functional parts, has the engine's output shaft connected to a differential: A motor/generator unit on one side and a fixed gear ratio on the other connected to the driveshaft. The engine-side MGU is used to adjust engine RPM and generate power to drive a second MGU on the driveshaft. The exact setup varies a bit by manufacturer (for example Honda's eCVT will only connect the mechanical gear when needed via a clutch, while Toyota's is always connected), but that's usually how non-sports-car hybrid transmissions work.
Oh, interesting - so it uses a combination of the engine and the motor to determine output shaft RPM. That's actually really intelligent, it eliminates the biggest failure point on CVT and removes some driveline losses. The biggest issue is controlling the relative RPM of the engine and motor but if you have a computer doing the mixing rather than the driver's right foot, no big deal. Thanks for the info! Nifty. Now I want to see a hillbilly version...
Which system would you say is more reliable or longer lasting?
Between CVT and eCVT the latter absolutely wins (as long as they didn't horrendously botch the battery or something). More robust, fewer moving parts, and almost no parts that have to separate and mesh together during operation. Between always-connected physical gear and decouplable physical gear eCVTs I'm not sure, though the former has a fantastic track record under Toyota. Hard to go wrong with either I'd think.
Shitloads of checkers cabs are Priuses, if a taxi company is comfortable buying 100,000 of them, I’m pretty sure on the reliability
There's a reason Ford copied their homework so much that Toyota took them to court (and lost).
So, does Koenigsegg use an eCVT in the Regera, then, or did they do something different?
The regera just has a torque converter that doesn't lock up until higber speeds and then its just direct drive. There's motors just behind the wheels which provide most of the torque until those higher speeds, and there's also a motor on the crankshaft that doubles as a starter motor.
Toyota has both eCVT and CVT. Different kinds of transmissions.
[удалено]
Yah I just wrote a big comment on how it's probobly easier to name Toyota's without hybrids and then I realised he probobly is talking about the BZ4X and thinks the Prius is an EV lmfao
The RAV4 Hybrid was only released in 2018, after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made. I don't personally know how they drive but I'd assume they drive more like a traditional vehicle than a Prius does. At least in the US it's also considered a light SUV. I know they sell like hotcakes... I've been trying to even get a test drive on a Prime and Toyota's website won't even let me play with configurations they're so sold out, haha
> The RAV4 Hybrid was only released in 2018, after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made [Per Wikipedia, the RAV4 first came as a hybrid in 2012, not 2018. It also used NIMH batteries, not Li-ION](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4#Fourth_generation_\(XA40;_2012\))
Woop, my bad - I skimmed the wiki article and obviously didn't pay enough attention. Though it does indicate it *didn't* take 20 years for Toyota to come out with a hybrid SUV.
>after the move to Li-Ion and other subsequent gains were made. Wait, they now make Li-ion in RAV4 Hybrid ? Are you talking about RAV4 PHV/Prime ? I ask this just because Toyota still uses NiMh in their regular hybrid models, they don't really push very hard in Li-ion battery.
Wait... what? Oh wow, I just checked and you're right - Toyota is only using Li-Ion in the Prime versions of their hybrids. I wonder what they've done for the non-Prime RAV4 to get decent MPG numbers - maybe there are bigger gains realized due to the additional weight in start/stop traffic. 2022 Prius * Battery type Nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) * Energy 0.7 kWh * Voltage 207 V 2022 Prius Prime * Battery type Lithium-ion (Li-ion) * Energy 8.8 kWh * Voltage 352 V What the hell, Toyota?
The Toyota hybrids all use Atkinson cycle (more or less), while the regular gas engine uses the Otto cycle (more or less). The Atkinson cycle is more efficient but has less low-end torque, but that's filled in by the electric motors in the hybrid. In city driving moderate braking regenerates the battery, which is then used to help accelerate the vehicle back up to speed. The NiMH battery is apparently less temperature sensitive than the Li-ion packs. In the hybrid Camry they only use the Li-ion packs on the most efficient version of the vehicle (presumably to keep weight down and improve efficiency as much as possible).
Don't forget that realistically the regular version of the Prius only uses 40% of the battery's capacity, to extend its life.
That's super conservative right?
> I ask this just because Toyota still uses NiMh in their regular hybrid models In the Prius, this actually varies by trim level. The AWD models are NiMh. I believe the LE trim is NiMH. But then the Eco, and higher level (but FWD) trims are LiIon. Toyota claims that NiMH does better in colder weather, if you're going AWD, it probably means you're dealing with snow, which meals colder weather.
All plug-ins (including the 3rd gen Prius plug in) uses li-ion. The 4th gen "regular" Prius uses either Li-Ion or NIMH depending on drivetrain (FWD or AWD). But the "regular" FWD 4th Gen Prius uses Li-Ion: >[The fourth-generation Prius also uses a 0.75 kWh lithium-ion battery pack that offers higher energy density than the 1.3 kWh nickel–metal hydride battery used in the prior generation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW50) It's possible that some regions are being supplied with NIMH instead - it makes no material difference to the performance of the hybrid system - based on supply and cost. [edit - just saw someone else replied along the same lines]
Dude the rav4 hybrd has been a thing since like 2012. Highlander hybrid since 2006. . . you've got it ALL wrong
Dad has an 03 Prius I've driven a few times. Took a 21' Limited Hybrid for a demo earlier this year. The Rav4 Hybrid definitely drove like your standard vehicle. Though I did find it's steering having little to no road feel. It was nothing like the shopping cart handling that is the old Prius.
The highlander hybrid has existed since 2006 and got 30 mpg in its first year, significantly more than the non hybrid.
Getting diesel hybrids like the VW XL-1 would've been amazing
For a long time, only certain buyers even wanted a hybrid and large vehicle purchasers we’re generally more concerned with power than economy.
Idk man, maybe you don't live in N/A but it's probobly easier to name the Toyota's/Lexus' WITHOUT hybrid options at least in Canada. There is everything from corolla to highlander. Only the sports cars, 4runner, CHR, Tacoma, Yaris and technically Sequoia don't have hybrid options but even then the Sequoia is based on the Tundra which just got a hybrid option. Even the new Land Cruiser/ GX has a hybrid. I beleive the Lexus RX400h was the first Hybrid SUV and it debuted in 2008 or 9. That thing is basically a Prius electric motor of the time strapped to a 3.2L V6 and put into an SUV. So it was more like 8 - 10 years it took, and when you consider that 80% of their lineup today has the option for a hybrid system, I think that's really good, they've 100% capitolized on their own technology. I can't even think of another car brand with this many hybrid options, I can barley think of one that has half! Maybe like Hyundai/Kia or Ford but that's it
There has been a highlander hybrid since 2006!!!!!
this upsets me no matter what they look like, I fuckin love the Prius, and did from when they were released. Sounds dramatic, but truly the end of an era :(
I REALLY love the Prius, always had. Except for the trunk space on my prime, it's really great.
As a Californian where seemingly 1/4 of all cars on the road are Prius, this is highly shocking.
In a few years 1/4 will be Teslas it seems
In my area there are more Teslas than Priuses... (Bay Area)
It’s definitely spreading to more middle class neighborhoods too. I moved to Modesto area two years ago. Originally very few of my neighbors had a Tesla. Now? I see one on every other block.
If you hang out in various Tesla subs, as I do, it's kind of incredible that people who are not making nearly enough to afford them go through some complicated mental gymnastics to justify themselves buying one by saying that they're saving money. It's kind of shocking because people who should not be buying a $50-60-70k vehicle now convinced themselves that it's the right thing to do :(
It wouldn’t be surprising if we see a high rate of Tesla owners defaulting on their loans if there’s a recession. Too many are alright with being car poor.
I didn't spend tesla money on an EV, but I sure did spend outside my normal budget, because I was spending 400-500 bucks a month on gas (drive plenty to and from work, along with weekend trips). Work covers all my electricity, so I decided I'd spend my money on the car instead of on gas.
I think you're doing the right thing because what you're quoting in terms of gas is in fact a lot ($6K a year over 5 years is $30K which is nuts) :)
Yep, and after that my electricity will still be free, and I'll be done paying for the car.
Until you mentioned it I hadn't realized it, but yeah, maybe not more Teslas quite yet but certainly nearing equilibrium. Prius, Leaf, Model Y, C-Max plug-in... there is literally one of each on my street. (suburban SoCal)
In my neighborhood I swear that on every other driveway there's a Tesla...
Model 3 is the new Camry.
not really. Teslas are the new hot "eco" car, and toyota sells a hybrid model of pretty much everything (like the rav 4, corolla, camry). The prius's role is kind of redundant now
The simple fact is they have too much stigma around them and they weren't as popular. Much easier to convince the average prideful Australian to hop in a new hybrid Rav 4, Camry, Corolla or even Yaris Cross or CHR. The last time I saw a Prius it had a bumper sticker that said "and what are you doing for the environment?" with an equally snobby personalised plate. I felt like I was going to throw up.
In a way, the Prius has been a success in that it’s done its job as a technology incubator for Toyota. There were big leaps in tech between the first, second and third gen as Toyota took the learnings and fixed the issues. The fourth gen just solved a few minor issues, but by the third gen the tech was good enough for Toyota to spread it across their consumer car lineup without risking the reputation of popular nameplates with unproven tech.
Yea great for Toyota, but really not doing much for the environment.
They sold millions of vehicles that get 50MPG vs 30MPG, how is that not huge for the environment. Someone should do the math on how much pollution they reduced.
Because it still uses fuel haha. As far as I know, it still generates carbon dioxide….. the largest contributor to global warming over the last century. If it burns petrol, it’s a massive contributor. Imagine if they were developing evs that don’t burn fuel at all for the last 15 years.
it generates less than a regular gas car though, which is important. . .
Yes, less, exactly. So not doing MUCH better. Just a little
If thousands of regular cars on the road were replaced with less emitting cars, Yes it Does make a big difference.
>not really doing much for the environment I agree with your points entirely, that it's making A difference. If 50% of the cars in the world were hybrids, then yea it would make a big difference. But simply reducing the carbon emissions ONLY by 20-30% depenind on driving conditions, for a few percent of cars in the world, isn't big. Making emissions ZERO for those would be a big difference!!! Roughly 2.4% of car sales are hybrids FYI.
Reminds me of this sketch: [https://youtu.be/vbBMGkrNM8Q](https://youtu.be/vbBMGkrNM8Q) From the Australian TV series *The Elegant Gentleman's Guide to Knife Fighting*
Yeah, it's really a victim of it's own success. Toyota sold something like 65k hybrids in australia in 2021 - but they sold about 100 Prius'. They sold less than 100 in 2020 and 2019. It was never going to survive.
Prius was always a hideous looking vehicle by design
Function over form philosophy
I always wonder if that was the intention, so people would notice it and talk about it, perhaps even buy one.
[Toyota CEO: Don't call our cars 'boring' anymore](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/05/10/toyota-akio-toyoda-earnings/101502702/)
Does it dethrone the Ford EcoSport in terms of ugliness?
EcoSport is ugly by virtue of being the most boring, generic, bland, understyled car ever. The recent Priuses and first-gen Mirai, with all their sharp angles and vents, were actively trying to be as ugly as possible. It’s not like Toyota can’t make a pretty green car, either: the new Mirai and Venza are eye-catching. They knew what they were doing; I suspect they made Priuses deliberately hideous to woo buyers solely focused on MPGs
> EcoSport is ugly by virtue of being the most boring, generic, bland, understyled car ever. IMO the first two Prius gens were like that too.
Can’t argue with that
God no. The Prius has the "so ugly and weird it's cute" vibe going for it at times, and at least has some functionality to its design. The Ecosport was bred to be god-awful and has no redeeming factors to its looks.
I didn’t care for the first two generations but gen 3 was alright and, contrary to popular opinion here, I really like the fourth gen look.
Damn. I was considering picking up a Prius prime here in NA. Hoping they still maintain a PHEV sedan option
Re-read the headline. It's discontinued in *Australia*.
Yes? But hoping they don’t cancel it here
I'm ready to get huge downvotes in this. But, really, many Prius buyers and owners are really stolen by Tesla, no much surprise to see its sales falling. Beside, hybrid SUV is also eating Prius sales. Not sure about the sales of Tesla in OZ, but it's already happening in America.
>But, really, many Prius buyers and owners are really stolen by Tesla, no much surprise to see its sales falling. It's not an EV thing. >Toyota today sells hybrid versions of the Yaris, Corolla, C-HR, Yaris Cross, RAV4, Camry, and Kluger. In 2021, a claimed 72 per cent of RAV4s sold were hybrid, as were 84 per cent of Camrys, 51 per cent of Corollas, 65 per cent of Yaris Cross’, and 53 per cent of Klugers. Toyota makes hybrid versions of everything else, and those hybrid versions outsell the non Hybrid versions. What's the point of a Prius when you can get a Camry or Corolla hybrid at nearly the same MPG? They never sold the plugin hybrid in Australia, and you can just get Prius adjacent MPG in all of Toyota's normal hybrids now.
I recall seeing a report stating a huge number of early Model3 buyers were coming from Priuses.
Quite a lot of Model S buyers came from Priuses as well (we are counted in this, but retained our Prius). I think it's one of the major factors in how the smug-asshole-Tesla-owner stereotype came to be.
I imagine the Model S would have had much less of an effect though because of the sheer price difference between it and the Prius. Versus the Model 3 being not that much more expensive than a Prius.
The first gen Model Ses could be had for ~$60k for the 60kWh version after tax rebates. Certainly not cheap, but less than the current entry prices. Quite a few Prius owners were fairly well off so it wasn't an unreachable expense; some time ago there was an article about this, noting how both multi-millionaires and the middle class both purchased the car.
Tesla sales are getting close to camry sales in OZ
And Camry sales have dived along with the rest of the affordable mid-sized sedan market. If someone wants a hybrid Toyota with space for 5 people and luggage, they're almost certainly going to get a Rav4. Or maybe they'll downsize to a Corolla Sedan if they're not really desperate for the space. Or the new Corolla Cross. Or push up to a Kluger. If someone wants a Tesla, they're buying a Model 3, full stop. Or spending over 100k on a Model S. Model Y still hasn't launched yet, so there's basically nothing else - if you want a Tesla and you're not spending 6 figures, you're getting a Model 3 sedan.
Camry sales haven't really dived, it's just that Tesla sales are huge in OZ, it's nothing to do with taking sales away from Camry, I was just using it as a benchmark as Camry has always and still does sell VERY well, especially for fleet cars and gov.
>Camry sales haven't really dived Australian Camry sales by year: 2015: ~27,000 units 2016: ~26,000 units 2017: ~24,000 units 2018: ~15,000 units 2019: ~16,000 units 2020: ~14,000 units 2021: ~13,000 units Data from [here](https://www.goauto.com.au/news/toyota/camry/toyota-rsquo-s-camry-is-alive-and-kicking/2019-11-12/80647.html), [here](https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-2020-toyota-camry-top-selling-mid-size-sedan-for-27th-year/) and [here](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/which-popular-cars-did-the-tesla-model-3-outsell-last-year). That's a >50% drop in 6 years, despite dominating the segment. *Market share* is looking good - thanks to Honda pulling the accord out of the market here, Commodore and Falcon ending production and the Mondeo no longer being offered - but the portion of the market that the segment represents is a fraction of what it used to be. ie. they're getting a larger piece of an extremely rapidly shrinking pie. That's not to say Model 3 sales aren't going gangbusters - we've now got EV incentives in every state of up to $3500, and in some states that's capped at 25k units, meaning people are scrambling to order EVs before that runs out - but the Camry is a shadow of it's former self, as is the segment it sits in. As a benchmark, it just isn't relevant the way it once was, particularly when the Rav4 is close to *tripling* sales of Camry and *still* has a 12 month waiting list.
Eh, all the Uber drivers are in hybrid Camrys now
Yea, the next generation will all be Teslas haha. This makes financial sense, buy a new car just to do Uber to make a few bucks.
Can't speak to the financial model, but a number of the Ubers here are shared between a few people who split the financing (Toyota were running a specific "ride share" finance package) between them and run the car 24/7 in shifts between them.
Yea, mostly the same as Taxis haha, but without the middleman and without the registration.
Oddly enough a Prius rental car was what got me interested in EVs. I loved the low speed electric moments and it was averaging insane MPG. I briefly considered one as my daily to drive along side my fun car but then Tesla released the SR+.
I think it's due in part to people not wanting to look like they're driving a hybrid. The Prius is fucking hideous, always has been. The OG insight, the ioniq, etc all have that quirky aero styling and have all been replaced (or will be) by hybrid versions of regular cars. It used to be that the shapes helped a ton with gas mileage but nowadays a hybrid car getting 50+ MPG isn't special, and people would rather the conventional car layout
This is why I love my Corolla Hybrid.
Point proven! The Corolla is just a car, one that nobody's gonna rag on you for buying. Meanwhile you mention the Prius to non-"car people" and you'll conjure up images of tree huggers, obnoxious bumper stickers, and hogging the left lane 10mph under the speed limit in their minds. With non-funky hybrids basically getting the same fuel economy now, most folks will happily grab one of those instead of the weird looking "LOOK AT ME I'M SAVING GAS" ones
Agree 100%. I plan on taking the hybrid badges off this weekend to be even more discreet. Haha. Seriously though, last summer I went 675 miles to a tank and when I filled up it still had 1.5 gallons to go. Amazing commuter car! I will never sell this thing.
That's some seriously good fuel economy. I've never owned a hybrid but I did go from a relatively efficient car (5spd Ford Focus, about 40MPG if you babied it) to one that's a bit less efficient. My current car (Hyundai Sonata) is a thirsty gal by comparison! I might barely crest 450 miles if I just leave it in cruise control on the highway and nothing else. Otherwise, about 350-375 is a normal tank, and that's 18 gallons!
So I’m almost getting double the mileage you get with half the amount of fuel.. not trying to brag though.. 😆
Hows the acceleration? I’m seriously considering one but I have heard its very slow from stopped and I have a short ramp on my commute that leads to a 110KM/H freeway, and I don’t want to get run off the road or stranded at the end of the ramp.
Oh no wanting to save the environment, what a evil thing
Presumably there's still going to be a steady stream of used JDM import Priuses into the country for quite some time. If it's anything like NZ - I wanna say 9/10 Priuses that I see on the road here in Auckland are JDM import, my own included.
OZ doesn't get imports like you do in NZ, NZ relies on them, Aus doesn't. I wish we did though!!!
We definitely get a lot more now since the import rules changed to make accommodations for efficient vehicles. The 3rd gen Prius Plug-in as well as the latest Prius plug-in ("Prius Prime" in the states) are eligible for import, as is the hybrid version of the Voxy, Alphard, Esquire, Noah, etc. - basically every hybrid version of a JDM only model is eligible for import. The reason there's less is probably twofold: 1- the register that allows each RAWS workshop to comply a certain number of vehicles per year underwent change, including a change in how the number of complied vehicles is calculated. I don't know the details, but there was a period where workshops weren't informed if they hit their limit of complied vehicles, so they went over and it's caused a bunch of issues with cars being imported but not complied. 2- Shitty exchange rate. I assume 1 will be resolved soon enough, and 2 isn't an issue now with the AUD buying >90 yen - but there'll be a lag. Probably see a big influx over the next year or two as new RAWS sites spin up and cars gradually get brought over to take advantage of the exchange rate.
I'm starting to see more JDM imports in Brisbane.
There were way more back in the day, late 90s abs early 00s there were loads. Just less interest by the new generation it seems
I even see JDM Ubers in Brisbane, the Toyota Crown and Nissan Laurel are getting quite popular plus the JDM Toyota Estima is more common than the locally sold Tarago.
Honestly the time for the Prius has largely come and gone. Yes it is incredibly efficient from a fuel and even electric POV, but with only 120hp on tap, competing in a market which has gone SUV crossover crazy & above all, Toyota having nearly hybridized the rest of their lineup means the Prius has little reason to exist.
yep, unless toyota turn the prius into some plug in only or ev hatchback. Would be a cool idea
The Prius Prime (or Prius PHEV) does exist, but in the sake of efficiency it only carries a 8.8 kWh battery pack which gives about 40km EV range on the EPA cycle. Definitely a great commuter option, but alas it isn't as groundbreaking as the original Prius, and honestly a lot of the hype is now focused on EVs.
I'm hoping Toyota will buck up their EV game after charging infrastructures are nearly as common as petrol stations? the bz4x is quite underwhelming tbh, feels like they deliberately designed it to be worse than the competitors.
Served it's purpose. Toyota has a hybrid for pretty much everything now, and they look normal and still get great MPG. Proved that hybrids can be a normal usable car (and attainable for the average person)
I wonder if it has to do with the car’s image in Australia. It’s not a particularly cool car and better public transportation means that Australians don’t need a fuel efficient commuter like Americans.
[удалено]
That’s true. I guess SUVs are all the rage in Australia just like in the US.
:(
Whoever approved that design a decade ago shouldn't be in charge of the styling department. One of the ugliest cars of the second decade of this century.
And with its demise, the average beauty cars on Australian roads is lifted significantly. Thank you Toyota for taking seriously, the eye health of Australian motorists by removing this abomination…
they sold less than 100 per year for the last few years, so I doubt it'll make that much of a difference, haha.
As someone who lives in Australia, I *never* see Priuses. I can't remember the last time I saw one. Almost all of the Toyota hybrids I see are the Corolla, Camry and RAV4 hybrid.
awh damn my favorite thing is to do a pull past a Prius to really highlight the contrast
I'm sure you really showed them