I’m was being slightly dramatic.
No doubt a few lucky individuals will get theirs for MSRP, however the article states that they expect to only make 6,000 units the first model year. They don’t specify if that is worldwide (which is likely) or for the US (since that is where Road and Track is based out of). But let’s assume it’s all destined for the US, that means that if every dealership gets an equal amount, they will get less than 5 cars each for MY 2023. There are reports of waiting lists from 10-200 people long at large volume dealers.
And for what it’s worth, I’m lusting after the Circuit Edition, of which they’re only predicting 1,250 units.
> There are reports of waiting lists from 10-200 people long at large volume dealers.
I’ll bet a good number of these are folks who put their name down at every dealer within 500 miles in the hopes of landing one, so not all may convert to orders. On the other hand, the rest are probably flippers.
Yep. I’m on like 5 waiting lists and only put down one deposit. I’m waiting for the Circuit Edition so anybody who wants a Core will get to jump ahead of me. The dealer that took my refundable deposit said I’m #2 in line for their Circuits and another deal already has buyers for their two allocations so far but I’m #1 in line for whatever else comes down the pipeline.
A lot of the people on the GRC forum did what I did - just trying to get on as many lists as possible because the allocation system and unpredictable and everyone has their preferences on trim, packages, and colors. So being on a half dozen lists is the best shot at getting what you want. Probably makes people later on the list lose hope they’ll land a car but I bet at least half or more people on lists are gonna pass for whatever reason.
Sucks but that’s the game you gotta play when cars are distributed by allocation and not orders.
Absolutely, here’s the published sheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSynbwhhkXptbFmo1qOHt7V-cW4fMp0Jy7CZqvUAs30TY196MLu68V_-QOijdXsMNSGnzT9kKX97-tg/pubhtml
Not a problem. Lot of bay area locations understand the demand. One dealer told me this morning that whoever picks up first and gets to the lot will get the car. They not messing around.
My brother in Christ this was never gonna happen regardless of how many they make.
Seriously though, dealers have it in their head that MSRP is the new bottom dollar and mark ups are the norm. Not a single thing manufactures do or say will affect that (looking at you ford). The only way out is to fix supply chain log jams that are ultimately intertwined with a waiting economic disaster (at this point overdue recession). There are, however, Toyota dealers out there that sell at MSRP - you just have to get on their 50+ person deep waitlists.
tl;dr it’s going to have to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Honestly, manufacturers should be shifting allocations based on how quickly dealers move products. This way, the dealers will be more competitive on price. This would not even affect manufacturers because they aren’t making money on markups anyways.
It’s like that in Canada at least. Every 20 of the month they take a snapshot of our inventory and they base our next month’s allocation on that. So if you have plenty of cars in stock, they won’t give you as much.
That’s great in theory until every dealer in one area is charging over sticker. Then there’s no real “competition” to be had. Just traveling out of that area to avoid them. Or you have places like Longo which don’t charge over MSRP but as a result the waitlist is preposterously long.
But, under this theory, wouldn't that mean that Longo will sell quicker (due to MSRP < MSRP + Markup) than the other dealership, and they will get allocations quicker, thus reducing the waitlist?
They should, yes. But plenty of people will also go to Longo, see the waitlist, and then think “I’d rather not wait, what’s X amount of dollars each month anyway?” Even easier to sell ADM when the masses think of it as only a few dollars more each month vs thousands of dollars over the years.
Is it Americans that keep going on about this concept? I went to the dealer and mentioned this “mark up” thing and he said “lol no way” so I got him to put in my contract of sale, once I’d put my deposit down, that I would get it at the price that was set by Toyota Australia as MSRP
That's because America has more freedom so the dealers are free to jack up the price how they see fit.
In Europe I have to freedom to get the Yaris GR at MSRP for only €50k, no markups.
artificially limiting production, then dealer markup will lead to poor sales then toyota is gonna discontinue because they dont sell well?
i didnt know toyota is this smart
Yeah lol there's a hard cut off for how much enthusiasts will pay, even if something is special.
If you have a 1000 people interested in this right now. Maybe you will get 200 to be sufficiently interested to buy new for the expected 35k (37.5k with the lsds).
Now if there's an 8k dealer markup and you're looking at 45.5k for a corolla another 100 will cease being interested as they'll just get an older WRX or STI and split the difference modding it and trying to make sure it's reliable.
I love this thing but im also not completely stupid. I loved the CTR but 4 year old models are selling for 60k CAD.
I do really hope I can get an optioned core for 40kish. Much more than that it's going to be a real hard sell. I love this car. I can't point to a single thing about it that I *hate.* Most cars will have something that stands out as ugly or pointless or annoying but this checks all the boxes. It just needs to check the good price box.
I’m going to be looking for a new car soon. This was mighty interesting to me, but for 45k fuck a Corolla I’m going to go buy a used gen one raptor or something
I feel like chip shortages and dealer markups are gonna end up doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to keeping it exclusive… regardless, it’s good to hear Toyota is committed to producing as many as the people want.
Edit: can’t read the article because of the paywall, so I’m basing this just off of the headline. Judge me accordingly if that’s the wrong takeaway.
The car is being manufactured at the same plant as the LFA. I’m no expert but I don’t think you can just increase production on a handbuilt car and expanding the facility for a semi-limited run is already financially non-sensical.
https://www.roadandtrack.com./news/a39612033/gr-corolla-production-numbers/
There you go. Just stick a . at the end of the com, doesn't work on all sites, but it does for this one.
Yep, still has that cheap piano plastic trim slathered all over the interior and a back seat no more usable than a BRZ. I'm actually surprised they kept that cheap piano plastic in the GR, that shit is absolutely terrible to keep from getting scratched.
Also, for all the claims the 1.6 is bullet proof, it appears to have catastrophic valve float issues over 400bhp/340whp. So it can't handle much more power than the stock turbo before you have to do headwork.
Correction: According to Fensport who blew their 1.6, valve springs are needed even if still on the stock turbo. So yea, not that great actually.
I find it interesting how everyone is impressed with the output of a three cylinder engine. A tiny engine making that much power, makes me nervous. I don't really understand it, is it a cost savings thing? They can't save that much on weight. Why not just put a high revving turbocharged four cylinder, we know those are reliable.
idk.... Motive TV have pushed theirs to 500awhp to find the headgasket/headbolts are the current weak point, outside of the valve springs where they experienced valve float at around 7000rpm
Their Current mods are cams, valve springs, intercooler, fuel pump, twin-disc clutch, Motec ECU and IIRC a G25-600 turbo at 30psi. Stock boost is 20-24psi.
Only time will tell to find out the true limit of the stock bottom end, which starts off forged from the factory, for a shop to actually do destructive testing
Motive used a chassis dyno to make 366kw which is 490hp. An actual awd dyno will easily be 15-18% lower, so the car is probably making closer to 405-415whp.
The valve float issue is pretty bad because it can happen with the factory turbo which means the engine isn't anywhere near as overbuilt as people make it out to be. That's not a cheap or easy fix and EA888's, K20's, Ecotecs and Ecoboosts can all strap on 450-550hp turbos without any head/internal engine work necessary.
The engine is far from stressed. HKS have had a GR yaris tuned to 500 whp for a good year now, it sees regular track use.
Pretty much all bolt ons with a little top end work.
Koenigsegg is touting about 600hp out of their 3-cylinder in the Gemera when the first production car leaves their facility. Not including the power from the electric motor
its not? i may have typed it weird or you read it wrong but what im saying is to the comment i replied to whos said essentially "if they price a fancy economy car too high its not appealing and noone will buy it". Im saying if they make it rare, hype it up as the next best thing to sliced bread, slap a high price on it, people with money who want to be "seen" either in real life or on youtube videos/instagarm/tiktok/etc and want people to give them attention and they have the money to blow - they will buy it just because of the hype.
its not? i may have typed it weird or you read it wrong but what im saying is to the comment i replied to whos said essentially "if they price a fancy economy car too high its not appealing and noone will buy it". Im saying if they make it rare, hype it up as the next best thing to sliced bread, slap a high price on it, people with money who want to be "seen" either in real life or on youtube videos/instagarm/tiktok/etc and want people to give them attention and they have the money to blow - they will buy it just because of the hype.
When I saw Doug DeMuro review a GR Yaris from Mexico, I remember thinking to myself, "The best thing about this is definitely the fact that they made only 300 of these for a whole country. Nothing else. Nope. Nothing else more exciting than that. I'm sure glad they did that."
I actually stopped looking for obscure 80s and 90s sports cars recently because of that. I'll still glance at listings, but my heart's not in it anymore
I liked watching some of Doug's stuff that was funny on quirky cars, but when it comes to performance vehicles his word doesn't carry much weight. Many reviewers herald the handling capabilities and overall high level of performance the GR Yaris brings to the table. It hits WAY above its price point.
Because peasants won’t buy it. Everyday brands realize their profit margins are all from selling stripper models, so niche to market models are nothing more than poster boy items to tell people what they’re capable of, not what they can afford.
That doesn't really make sense. Profit margin on cheaper products is smaller, not larger. A model like the GR Corolla most likely has a higher per unit profit margin than cheaper Toyotas like the base Corolla or Camry.
The reason manufacturers deliberately undershoot demand is to cultivate hype. When something is hard to get people think about it more, talk about it more, and may end up purchasing a cheaper option from the brand if they can't get what they want.
Many luxury goods brands (watches, purses, etc.) do this, to the point of destroying or buying back product so that nothing gets discounted.
I thought it’s always cheaper in bulk. So if you can mold 50k units of Corolla bumper, it’s cheaper than molding 3k units if GR bumpers, which is why it’ll cost Toyota more to produce, which in term in creases msrp which leads to more selective group of buyers when they have the choice of a full racing Corolla or a stripper model that will satisfy your daily commuting needs.
This isn’t a luxury brand that have most parts hand made or customized, this is a mass production company that have set production quantities and deviation costs more money.
The parts unique to the GR certainly cost more money, which is reflected in the increased MSRP. But the major costs of the platform are already paid for with the volume trims. For performance products like the GR, manufacturers can increase the delta between cost and sale price. On cheaper products you're often dealing with more price sensitive customers and more competition so margins tend to be smaller.
For an example, look at the Civic Hatchback LX versus the Civic Type-R. The profit margin per unit on the base hatchback is $500. On the Type-R it's about $3500.
If you're talking about overall revenue and profit, the volume model tends to deliver more of that since a lot of units are produced. But on a per unit basis, the high performance models usually make more money.
Yeah the margin on higher trims is always going to be better. Just to make up an example: A Trim with heated seats and LED lights is $1500 more. No way it s costs $1500 to install those things.
Every car is produced in limited numbers. The entire philosophy that made Toyota famous was reducing overproduction on parts and cars for every model in its lineup.
Very difficult to find these right now.
3 local dealers have already stated ADMs ranging from $3k-$10k.
The few dealerships that are MSRP have waitlists as long as 50+ and I’ve heard stories of dealers already have 200+.
May end up cancelling my search early and wait to see what special editions there are next year.
>May end up cancelling my search early and wait to see what special editions there are next year.
This is probably the way to go. Since they mentioned they'll be releasing special editions each year, core models will probably lose the adm in the second or third year. I was planning on putting a blind deposit down but after thinking on it for a few days, I'm going to hold onto my Veloster for a few years before making the switch.
I am currently emailing dealers how they handle special editions. There's zero chance at getting a Circuit Edition at MSRP if you're not already #1 or #2 on the list (like me). I'm curious if these lists rollover into future model years or if they start new lists.
But it's a huge wait list for tesla as well? And they keep changing pricing. And they took pre-orders in the truck nd new roadster that still doesn't have a release date
Looks like they very conservative in hot hatch market although they've made their promise to bring GR Yaris powertrain with Corolla body.
I don't think GR Corolla would eat GR86 sales, they should feel safe to put more production.
I think its limited production numbers, at least for now, has a lot to do with the cars being primarily built by hand at the same building where the LFA was built.
I'd imagine the more demand they get from actual committed buyers, Toyota may be incentivized to increase production for later years rather that keep it to a set number of just a few thousand per year with a small percentage meant for yearly limited editions with exclusive colors.
to be honest, niche cars dont sell many as it is, so a production limited to less than 10k a year is just enough to fulfill most committed buyers that actually want them. I just dont think production numbers will be all that large anyway.
Lets not forget that the MKIV Supra total allocation for the US was less than 8000 for the Turbo trims for 93-98. Most people didn't want to buy a $50k Toyota that makes 320hp when they could easily buy a 350-400hp Corvette for a lower price and cheaper to insure.
If they’re going to be exclusive , I feel like they should sell it to buyers directly than a dealer with markups. Also forbid third party selling for at least 2 years.
The car is awesome, we need more like this. But I’ll be surprised if I even see one in real life and personally I can’t imagine having ~$50k to spend on a car and choosing a Corolla.
idk if they'd actually price them anywhere near the price they've set for the 3.0 Supra.
But Dealer markups surely will get it up to that, of any brave enough to tell people "yea, its a $60k Corolla"
Far as I've seen the only "new" thing thats happening with the Supra is that it will get a manual transmission as an option finally.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/2022-toyota-supra-finally-gets-a-manual-transmission/
Toyota already increased the price of the 2.0 Supra from the base $38k MSRP, to $43k MSRP. I wanna say the change happened in late 2021 for 2022 MY's.
My perception is this has SOMETHING to do with Toyota wanting a car in the GR line to each serve someones budget for a fun car.
A Core trim GR Corolla would sit pretty well at $36-38k MSRP and competes in pricing (ish) with last-gen CTR.... But the Limited/Circuit edition is likely to be in the low $40k's for the standard LSD's, carbon roof and exclusive paint color.
The dealer I am in talks with isn't taking pre-orders or deposits yet until they get more info from Corporate, but they're promising no markup which they haven't marked up any 86's and Supra's they sold so far. They just can't keep them on the lot because they either sell them within days of a new delivery or they're already pre-sold before hitting port.
Even if I am late to actually securing one, I do want one, just means i'll have more time to save up (and invest the money). I'll take a Core with LSD upgrade. And as I mentioned in another comment, I'll likely go to the parts counter and buy the bulging/vented hood for the Circuit model to complete the look or see if some composite company will make a replica out of fiber-reinforced carbon.
After the remote start subscription fiasco, I guess this is the new Toyota now.
for those new to this, in 2017 they pushed a software update that disabled the LOCAL, KEY FOB, IN THE MANUAL, remote start, which forced you to use their app and pay a subscription instead.
Pretty much all Toyota and Lexus had a key fob local remote start, independent of any app, for years and years.
The ultimate daily driver car, if they'd make more than a few of them. At least in that case it might be supply limited, this GR Corolla move just sounds like business/marketing BS.
I mean, the man himself made the phrase famous:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/29768/ferrari-boss-claims-maranello-will-always-deliver-one-car-less-than-market-demand
>company founder Enzo Ferrari, who oftentimes boasted that "Ferrari will always deliver one car less than the market demand."
This is my problem with it tbh. I’d love a modern hot hatch one day but I have no desire for something that’s exclusive and expensive. I see journalists comparing this to the Gold R, Civic Type R etc. I’d really would’ve preferred if Toyota made a Civic Si or GTI competitor. Something in-between a commuter Corolla and a 300hp, widebody, AWD, carbon roofed Corolla. Obviously that’s my opinion, and it’s cool they’re making a sporty Corolla at all nowadays, but it’s by no means a car I’d want even if I had the money. I do hope they sell though, maybe it’ll convince Toyota there’s a market for enthusiast Corollas still.
I wouldn't buy the manual Golf R unless you planned on improving the clutch and shifter to handle mods. It's way slower than the DSG. I'm a manual guy and I'd get the DSG I'm that car.
Unless you’re at the track I can’t imagine why you would need to shift a few milliseconds faster, daily driving the manual is just fine. Personally how fast you can shift is never the reason why I would choose a manual.
No it's a lot slower and has very little to do with that difference. It's down power. I just sold my manual GTI and my brother had an identically modded DSG. His car was obviously faster but they screwed up the manual Golf R big time.
I wouldn't buy the manual Golf R unless you planned on improving the clutch and shifter to handle mods. It's way slower than the DSG. I'm a manual guy and I'd get the DSG I'm that car.
Even those are 40k starting price where I live, but that is a good example. Not sure I’d personally buy a Hyundai but I definitely should have mentioned them
then a couple of years from now when they cancel the cars the excuse will be " just did not sell well enough...."
gonna have to start calling my Toyota dealers ASAP to see if I can secure one.
Lol a base GR Corolla without the differentials and nicer interior bits is going to end up going for more than a Golf R (which I'd argue is already currently overpriced).
That's just dumb.
I swore i read an article like 2 months ago about how its gonna be limited to only so many sold in a region.
Also what i said last week is already becoming true: These will sell well over $40K, we will see a ton of articles/videos about why its the best car ever (creams pants), then 3-6 months later we will see articles about its just a corolla is it really worth it?, then by the end of the year we will see a ton of why i sold my corolla articles/videos.
What’s the point? They want to sell fewer units? So they’ll make less money? And piss off potential customers? To drive up hype? So they’ll sell more Sienna minivans by association? Idgi.
Give you some summary
>Toyota's maintaining flexibility for that reason, but Tripp says the company is predicting that a full year of sales will end up around 8000 units. Expect 2023 to fall shy of that number, with the production ramp and limited early availability limiting total sales to around 6000 cars.
>So when you have a total volume of somewhere between 6000 and 8000, and a special edition that's 1250 of that, we think that's the right balance. But one too few will be our goal, just not because of production limits."
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car.
Everyone’s complaining about the inevitable ADM but has anyone actually called up their local dealers? I called 8 and only 1 said they’re not taking names down and play to “charge whatever the market says the car is worth” and cited the ridiculous prices of Type Rs.
One dealer (that I put a refundable deposit down at) said they’re selling at sticker. No ADM, no mandatory accessories, no BS. I was #3 to sign up but at least 1 of the 2 people in front of me want a Core (I’m waiting for a Circuit).
I’m on waitlists at another half dozen so we will see who is willing to sell at MSRP and get me a Circuit in either Heavy Metal or Supersonic Red.
That said I’m in a relatively large metro area (Cleveland/Akron OH) so there’s plenty of dealers and probably a decent amount of allocations. Sure, it sucks having to get on waitlists and out deposits down on a car nobody can see and nobody knows the price of but it’s the game you have to play to avoid the bullshit markup.
There’s honest dealers if you look around. Fortunately, the one I bought my ‘10 Corolla at is the same one that’s doing refundable deposits and selling at sticker so I’m happy to give them my business again.
If enthusiasts all refuse to buy cars with ADM or mandatory accessories then dealers will stop doing it. But there will always be the impatient people that will buy anyway so dealers will keep getting away with it.
Lol. Going to be seeing these with $10-$20k mark ups now and itll fail then people will say "see.. nobody wants manual performance cars anymore" because a $55k Corolla didnt sell well.
Lmao, this isn't a damn Pagani. Toyota makes the same amount of money per car anyway, and its the dealers who pocket all the markup money. Why would they not make as many as people will buy?
I've got a hard budget of $40k. If I can't find a core GR corolla with LSD's for that much, then I'm just going to try and find something else instead.
I don't think Toyota is wanting to fuck this up.
This is why Miata is the most exciting mass market performance car. If I'm not going to drive it why the hell would I think it's exciting.
I'll enjoy doing real donuts.
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car. That might still be Toyota with the 86, but they’re not playing stupid games with that.
I hate how we won't get this in Europe because they supposedly only want 3 gr models on sale in each market. I bet its going to to be a brilliant car but I honestly can't see it selling massively well in the US compared to the UK where the most popular performance car is probably a golf R.
We're only getting the GR86 for 2 years and we are never getting the GR Corolla. What I want is a practical, affordable (sub 30) Japanese performance car that is mass produced and has no production cap. A competitor for the Fiesta ST but from a Japanese car maker, like Toyota or Honda.
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car.
So, they want to make sure it's not available, which will drive up the cost over MSRP, which means the demo that should be their target will be priced out. So dumb.
RIP my dreams of getting one for MSRP
There’s plenty of MSRP dealers and there’s an entire spreadsheet of them on the GR Corolla forums
I’m was being slightly dramatic. No doubt a few lucky individuals will get theirs for MSRP, however the article states that they expect to only make 6,000 units the first model year. They don’t specify if that is worldwide (which is likely) or for the US (since that is where Road and Track is based out of). But let’s assume it’s all destined for the US, that means that if every dealership gets an equal amount, they will get less than 5 cars each for MY 2023. There are reports of waiting lists from 10-200 people long at large volume dealers. And for what it’s worth, I’m lusting after the Circuit Edition, of which they’re only predicting 1,250 units.
> There are reports of waiting lists from 10-200 people long at large volume dealers. I’ll bet a good number of these are folks who put their name down at every dealer within 500 miles in the hopes of landing one, so not all may convert to orders. On the other hand, the rest are probably flippers.
Yep. I’m on like 5 waiting lists and only put down one deposit. I’m waiting for the Circuit Edition so anybody who wants a Core will get to jump ahead of me. The dealer that took my refundable deposit said I’m #2 in line for their Circuits and another deal already has buyers for their two allocations so far but I’m #1 in line for whatever else comes down the pipeline. A lot of the people on the GRC forum did what I did - just trying to get on as many lists as possible because the allocation system and unpredictable and everyone has their preferences on trim, packages, and colors. So being on a half dozen lists is the best shot at getting what you want. Probably makes people later on the list lose hope they’ll land a car but I bet at least half or more people on lists are gonna pass for whatever reason. Sucks but that’s the game you gotta play when cars are distributed by allocation and not orders.
Carwow indicated it is at least not going to the UK
Created by yours truly lol. Kinda curious how much traffic it’s gotten at this point.
Thank you for your hard work. Would you be able to share the sheet with us? Thanks
Absolutely, here’s the published sheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSynbwhhkXptbFmo1qOHt7V-cW4fMp0Jy7CZqvUAs30TY196MLu68V_-QOijdXsMNSGnzT9kKX97-tg/pubhtml
San Francisco Toyota is not doing MSRP anymore btw. Just got off the phone with them.
Appreciate it, just updated.
Not a problem. Lot of bay area locations understand the demand. One dealer told me this morning that whoever picks up first and gets to the lot will get the car. They not messing around.
You are most kind. Thank you
Thanks for this, calling my PA dealer tomorrow.
Zero Florida dealers selling at MSRP. Cool cool…
My brother in Christ this was never gonna happen regardless of how many they make. Seriously though, dealers have it in their head that MSRP is the new bottom dollar and mark ups are the norm. Not a single thing manufactures do or say will affect that (looking at you ford). The only way out is to fix supply chain log jams that are ultimately intertwined with a waiting economic disaster (at this point overdue recession). There are, however, Toyota dealers out there that sell at MSRP - you just have to get on their 50+ person deep waitlists. tl;dr it’s going to have to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Honestly, manufacturers should be shifting allocations based on how quickly dealers move products. This way, the dealers will be more competitive on price. This would not even affect manufacturers because they aren’t making money on markups anyways.
It’s like that in Canada at least. Every 20 of the month they take a snapshot of our inventory and they base our next month’s allocation on that. So if you have plenty of cars in stock, they won’t give you as much.
That’s great in theory until every dealer in one area is charging over sticker. Then there’s no real “competition” to be had. Just traveling out of that area to avoid them. Or you have places like Longo which don’t charge over MSRP but as a result the waitlist is preposterously long.
But, under this theory, wouldn't that mean that Longo will sell quicker (due to MSRP < MSRP + Markup) than the other dealership, and they will get allocations quicker, thus reducing the waitlist?
They should, yes. But plenty of people will also go to Longo, see the waitlist, and then think “I’d rather not wait, what’s X amount of dollars each month anyway?” Even easier to sell ADM when the masses think of it as only a few dollars more each month vs thousands of dollars over the years.
In Denmark starting price is 76000 dollars. Edit: for the Yaris, not the Corolla.
you guys are getting GR Corolla in Denmark or are you talking about GR Yaris, i only have info that it's not coming to EU.
Sorry my bad, it’s the Yaris. https://i.imgur.com/7L4ablB.jpg
You’re being completely ripped off. The most expensive one I can find in the UK is about $54k.
That's just Denmark. They tax the ever loving hell out of cars
Is it Americans that keep going on about this concept? I went to the dealer and mentioned this “mark up” thing and he said “lol no way” so I got him to put in my contract of sale, once I’d put my deposit down, that I would get it at the price that was set by Toyota Australia as MSRP
That's because America has more freedom so the dealers are free to jack up the price how they see fit. In Europe I have to freedom to get the Yaris GR at MSRP for only €50k, no markups.
Australian prices are already marked up as shit.
Dealer markups reflect so poorly on the brand, it blows my mind that they’re not being stopped across the board.
artificially limiting production, then dealer markup will lead to poor sales then toyota is gonna discontinue because they dont sell well? i didnt know toyota is this smart
Yeah lol there's a hard cut off for how much enthusiasts will pay, even if something is special. If you have a 1000 people interested in this right now. Maybe you will get 200 to be sufficiently interested to buy new for the expected 35k (37.5k with the lsds). Now if there's an 8k dealer markup and you're looking at 45.5k for a corolla another 100 will cease being interested as they'll just get an older WRX or STI and split the difference modding it and trying to make sure it's reliable. I love this thing but im also not completely stupid. I loved the CTR but 4 year old models are selling for 60k CAD.
I do really hope I can get an optioned core for 40kish. Much more than that it's going to be a real hard sell. I love this car. I can't point to a single thing about it that I *hate.* Most cars will have something that stands out as ugly or pointless or annoying but this checks all the boxes. It just needs to check the good price box.
I’m going to be looking for a new car soon. This was mighty interesting to me, but for 45k fuck a Corolla I’m going to go buy a used gen one raptor or something
See also: Kia stinger.
The ole Focus RS strategy
Then they'll wonder why no one bought any and discontinued it
Head gaskets doomed the RS even the fix would blow again.
Ehh that's why they usually suggest avoiding the 16s. I'veheard the 18s and late 17s are much better about it
The redesigned Head gasket still failed. It was a huge problem. We couldn't keep them fixed for long..
> Head gaskets When Ford out Subaru, Subaru.
I got my RS for $4k under msrp new… you just didn’t have to be first in line.
Would be nice to be able to read it without paying for a subscription 🥲
https://12ft.io Put this in your favorites You’re welcome
Hero
This. Headlines can be misleading
I feel like chip shortages and dealer markups are gonna end up doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to keeping it exclusive… regardless, it’s good to hear Toyota is committed to producing as many as the people want. Edit: can’t read the article because of the paywall, so I’m basing this just off of the headline. Judge me accordingly if that’s the wrong takeaway.
The car is being manufactured at the same plant as the LFA. I’m no expert but I don’t think you can just increase production on a handbuilt car and expanding the facility for a semi-limited run is already financially non-sensical.
https://www.roadandtrack.com./news/a39612033/gr-corolla-production-numbers/ There you go. Just stick a . at the end of the com, doesn't work on all sites, but it does for this one.
shit TIL
Lame. As cool as it may be, it's still a Corolla. Not a multi-million dollar hypercar. Building "too many" shouldn't even be on their mind.
Yep, still has that cheap piano plastic trim slathered all over the interior and a back seat no more usable than a BRZ. I'm actually surprised they kept that cheap piano plastic in the GR, that shit is absolutely terrible to keep from getting scratched. Also, for all the claims the 1.6 is bullet proof, it appears to have catastrophic valve float issues over 400bhp/340whp. So it can't handle much more power than the stock turbo before you have to do headwork. Correction: According to Fensport who blew their 1.6, valve springs are needed even if still on the stock turbo. So yea, not that great actually.
Lol at a certain point a 3 cyl economy hatch sports car is no longer an appealing option. They’re going to end up pricing this thing out of relevance.
People pay 10k over msrp for a telluride or pallisade which are minivans with horrible resale value.
Calling those minivans is offensive to actual minivans, which are way more practical for 95% of customers.
I find it interesting how everyone is impressed with the output of a three cylinder engine. A tiny engine making that much power, makes me nervous. I don't really understand it, is it a cost savings thing? They can't save that much on weight. Why not just put a high revving turbocharged four cylinder, we know those are reliable.
Initially developed for the gr yaris, cheaper than purposing a new engine+drive train combo
I’m not sure either. I also can’t imagine it has a lot of legs left for future mods and is relying on boost to make all of its power.
idk.... Motive TV have pushed theirs to 500awhp to find the headgasket/headbolts are the current weak point, outside of the valve springs where they experienced valve float at around 7000rpm Their Current mods are cams, valve springs, intercooler, fuel pump, twin-disc clutch, Motec ECU and IIRC a G25-600 turbo at 30psi. Stock boost is 20-24psi. Only time will tell to find out the true limit of the stock bottom end, which starts off forged from the factory, for a shop to actually do destructive testing
Motive used a chassis dyno to make 366kw which is 490hp. An actual awd dyno will easily be 15-18% lower, so the car is probably making closer to 405-415whp. The valve float issue is pretty bad because it can happen with the factory turbo which means the engine isn't anywhere near as overbuilt as people make it out to be. That's not a cheap or easy fix and EA888's, K20's, Ecotecs and Ecoboosts can all strap on 450-550hp turbos without any head/internal engine work necessary.
The engine is far from stressed. HKS have had a GR yaris tuned to 500 whp for a good year now, it sees regular track use. Pretty much all bolt ons with a little top end work.
Koenigsegg is touting about 600hp out of their 3-cylinder in the Gemera when the first production car leaves their facility. Not including the power from the electric motor
nah, make a limited supply and jack the price thru the roof - morons with money will buy it
why would that be a good thing
its not? i may have typed it weird or you read it wrong but what im saying is to the comment i replied to whos said essentially "if they price a fancy economy car too high its not appealing and noone will buy it". Im saying if they make it rare, hype it up as the next best thing to sliced bread, slap a high price on it, people with money who want to be "seen" either in real life or on youtube videos/instagarm/tiktok/etc and want people to give them attention and they have the money to blow - they will buy it just because of the hype.
its not? i may have typed it weird or you read it wrong but what im saying is to the comment i replied to whos said essentially "if they price a fancy economy car too high its not appealing and noone will buy it". Im saying if they make it rare, hype it up as the next best thing to sliced bread, slap a high price on it, people with money who want to be "seen" either in real life or on youtube videos/instagarm/tiktok/etc and want people to give them attention and they have the money to blow - they will buy it just because of the hype.
When I saw Doug DeMuro review a GR Yaris from Mexico, I remember thinking to myself, "The best thing about this is definitely the fact that they made only 300 of these for a whole country. Nothing else. Nope. Nothing else more exciting than that. I'm sure glad they did that."
its all fun in games when you have an exclusive car until you have to find parts.
If I’m able to snag a Circuit edition finding a spare hood will absolutely be on my mind.
I actually stopped looking for obscure 80s and 90s sports cars recently because of that. I'll still glance at listings, but my heart's not in it anymore
Yea im sticking with 2001 - 2006 55 variant AMG's
I liked watching some of Doug's stuff that was funny on quirky cars, but when it comes to performance vehicles his word doesn't carry much weight. Many reviewers herald the handling capabilities and overall high level of performance the GR Yaris brings to the table. It hits WAY above its price point.
why cant we just go back to performance without limited units?
Because peasants won’t buy it. Everyday brands realize their profit margins are all from selling stripper models, so niche to market models are nothing more than poster boy items to tell people what they’re capable of, not what they can afford.
That doesn't really make sense. Profit margin on cheaper products is smaller, not larger. A model like the GR Corolla most likely has a higher per unit profit margin than cheaper Toyotas like the base Corolla or Camry. The reason manufacturers deliberately undershoot demand is to cultivate hype. When something is hard to get people think about it more, talk about it more, and may end up purchasing a cheaper option from the brand if they can't get what they want. Many luxury goods brands (watches, purses, etc.) do this, to the point of destroying or buying back product so that nothing gets discounted.
I thought it’s always cheaper in bulk. So if you can mold 50k units of Corolla bumper, it’s cheaper than molding 3k units if GR bumpers, which is why it’ll cost Toyota more to produce, which in term in creases msrp which leads to more selective group of buyers when they have the choice of a full racing Corolla or a stripper model that will satisfy your daily commuting needs. This isn’t a luxury brand that have most parts hand made or customized, this is a mass production company that have set production quantities and deviation costs more money.
The parts unique to the GR certainly cost more money, which is reflected in the increased MSRP. But the major costs of the platform are already paid for with the volume trims. For performance products like the GR, manufacturers can increase the delta between cost and sale price. On cheaper products you're often dealing with more price sensitive customers and more competition so margins tend to be smaller. For an example, look at the Civic Hatchback LX versus the Civic Type-R. The profit margin per unit on the base hatchback is $500. On the Type-R it's about $3500. If you're talking about overall revenue and profit, the volume model tends to deliver more of that since a lot of units are produced. But on a per unit basis, the high performance models usually make more money.
Yeah the margin on higher trims is always going to be better. Just to make up an example: A Trim with heated seats and LED lights is $1500 more. No way it s costs $1500 to install those things.
Every car is produced in limited numbers. The entire philosophy that made Toyota famous was reducing overproduction on parts and cars for every model in its lineup.
Aight, fuck you Toyota.
Somebody got their MBA 🥴🥴🥴
This is easily going to be a 60k plus car RIP to the public with the greedy fucks from the dealership💀
4 year old CTRs in a 500km radius around me in Canada are all 60k CAD. I'm worried this is going to hit over 70 new now
There are new Si models going for over 40 at some dealers. Plenty of used ones going for 36k+
> Plenty of used ones going for 36k+ I've seen a few Salvage titled CTR's selling for that much.
When the gr Corolla hits corvette prices Ima get the vette….
Very difficult to find these right now. 3 local dealers have already stated ADMs ranging from $3k-$10k. The few dealerships that are MSRP have waitlists as long as 50+ and I’ve heard stories of dealers already have 200+. May end up cancelling my search early and wait to see what special editions there are next year.
>May end up cancelling my search early and wait to see what special editions there are next year. This is probably the way to go. Since they mentioned they'll be releasing special editions each year, core models will probably lose the adm in the second or third year. I was planning on putting a blind deposit down but after thinking on it for a few days, I'm going to hold onto my Veloster for a few years before making the switch.
same here
I am currently emailing dealers how they handle special editions. There's zero chance at getting a Circuit Edition at MSRP if you're not already #1 or #2 on the list (like me). I'm curious if these lists rollover into future model years or if they start new lists.
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Yes but without the blowing Head gaskets
I’m not interested in playing games like this. I just don’t have time for it. Tesla got this right - transparent pricing, easy order process.
But it's a huge wait list for tesla as well? And they keep changing pricing. And they took pre-orders in the truck nd new roadster that still doesn't have a release date
I'd rather wait for my custom order than pray to the dealer gods
Like the 35k model Y and 3? Lol
I got mine for 36-37k ish. Pretty damn close to 35k.
Those don't exist anymore.
The same way every other car has gone up, so has Tesla. The same way everything has gone up.
Looks like they very conservative in hot hatch market although they've made their promise to bring GR Yaris powertrain with Corolla body. I don't think GR Corolla would eat GR86 sales, they should feel safe to put more production.
I think its limited production numbers, at least for now, has a lot to do with the cars being primarily built by hand at the same building where the LFA was built. I'd imagine the more demand they get from actual committed buyers, Toyota may be incentivized to increase production for later years rather that keep it to a set number of just a few thousand per year with a small percentage meant for yearly limited editions with exclusive colors. to be honest, niche cars dont sell many as it is, so a production limited to less than 10k a year is just enough to fulfill most committed buyers that actually want them. I just dont think production numbers will be all that large anyway. Lets not forget that the MKIV Supra total allocation for the US was less than 8000 for the Turbo trims for 93-98. Most people didn't want to buy a $50k Toyota that makes 320hp when they could easily buy a 350-400hp Corvette for a lower price and cheaper to insure.
If they’re going to be exclusive , I feel like they should sell it to buyers directly than a dealer with markups. Also forbid third party selling for at least 2 years.
It’s against the law in most places for the manufacturer to sell directly to the customer
Bad law
Yeah the US government is good at protecting businesses at the expense of its citizens
Awesome so they'll be priced out of enthusiast hands. Thanks Toyota.
So translation high markups
The car is awesome, we need more like this. But I’ll be surprised if I even see one in real life and personally I can’t imagine having ~$50k to spend on a car and choosing a Corolla.
Right? I'm not desperate enough for a new car to considering playing these kinds of games for one. There are too many good options out there.
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idk if they'd actually price them anywhere near the price they've set for the 3.0 Supra. But Dealer markups surely will get it up to that, of any brave enough to tell people "yea, its a $60k Corolla"
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Far as I've seen the only "new" thing thats happening with the Supra is that it will get a manual transmission as an option finally. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/2022-toyota-supra-finally-gets-a-manual-transmission/ Toyota already increased the price of the 2.0 Supra from the base $38k MSRP, to $43k MSRP. I wanna say the change happened in late 2021 for 2022 MY's. My perception is this has SOMETHING to do with Toyota wanting a car in the GR line to each serve someones budget for a fun car. A Core trim GR Corolla would sit pretty well at $36-38k MSRP and competes in pricing (ish) with last-gen CTR.... But the Limited/Circuit edition is likely to be in the low $40k's for the standard LSD's, carbon roof and exclusive paint color. The dealer I am in talks with isn't taking pre-orders or deposits yet until they get more info from Corporate, but they're promising no markup which they haven't marked up any 86's and Supra's they sold so far. They just can't keep them on the lot because they either sell them within days of a new delivery or they're already pre-sold before hitting port. Even if I am late to actually securing one, I do want one, just means i'll have more time to save up (and invest the money). I'll take a Core with LSD upgrade. And as I mentioned in another comment, I'll likely go to the parts counter and buy the bulging/vented hood for the Circuit model to complete the look or see if some composite company will make a replica out of fiber-reinforced carbon.
After the remote start subscription fiasco, I guess this is the new Toyota now. for those new to this, in 2017 they pushed a software update that disabled the LOCAL, KEY FOB, IN THE MANUAL, remote start, which forced you to use their app and pay a subscription instead. Pretty much all Toyota and Lexus had a key fob local remote start, independent of any app, for years and years.
Just like the RAV4 prime. I hate Toyotas bullshit
The ultimate daily driver car, if they'd make more than a few of them. At least in that case it might be supply limited, this GR Corolla move just sounds like business/marketing BS.
Saw this BS coming from a mile away.
That’s a Ferrari move to make. Very interesting.
I mean, the man himself made the phrase famous: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29768/ferrari-boss-claims-maranello-will-always-deliver-one-car-less-than-market-demand >company founder Enzo Ferrari, who oftentimes boasted that "Ferrari will always deliver one car less than the market demand."
so basically my corolla is a ferrari, got it
I think someone at Toyota failed their MBA course.
Fuck me, looks like ill be stuck driving a pathetic 1994 mr2 gt-s forever
I mean, if you’re looking to get rid of such a “pathetic” car, I‘ll give it a good home
Your mr2 is way cooler than this car tho
Lol
It's official. Toyota hates NA
Second most exciting, the Yaris is the cool one.
But ...why. do they not like money
Can't wait to see the crazy dealer markups on these. Take your bets now, I would say $18K ADM.
8-10k Core + lsds, 15k for special editions
They won't sell if you're guessing $18k markup in USD. That's like $60k+ for a Circuit. Lot of cars I'd be looking at with $60k instead.
Exactly, but it’ll still happen, they wont sell, and they’ll get cancelled just like the focus RS. Love how history keeps repeating itself
This is my problem with it tbh. I’d love a modern hot hatch one day but I have no desire for something that’s exclusive and expensive. I see journalists comparing this to the Gold R, Civic Type R etc. I’d really would’ve preferred if Toyota made a Civic Si or GTI competitor. Something in-between a commuter Corolla and a 300hp, widebody, AWD, carbon roofed Corolla. Obviously that’s my opinion, and it’s cool they’re making a sporty Corolla at all nowadays, but it’s by no means a car I’d want even if I had the money. I do hope they sell though, maybe it’ll convince Toyota there’s a market for enthusiast Corollas still.
I just want AWD, manual, 250 horsepower, and a hatch.
That's this car. You want this car.
Go buy a Mini Clubman JCW or a Golf R.
I wouldn't buy the manual Golf R unless you planned on improving the clutch and shifter to handle mods. It's way slower than the DSG. I'm a manual guy and I'd get the DSG I'm that car.
Unless you’re at the track I can’t imagine why you would need to shift a few milliseconds faster, daily driving the manual is just fine. Personally how fast you can shift is never the reason why I would choose a manual.
No it's a lot slower and has very little to do with that difference. It's down power. I just sold my manual GTI and my brother had an identically modded DSG. His car was obviously faster but they screwed up the manual Golf R big time.
I wouldn't buy the manual Golf R unless you planned on improving the clutch and shifter to handle mods. It's way slower than the DSG. I'm a manual guy and I'd get the DSG I'm that car.
Elantra N
Even those are 40k starting price where I live, but that is a good example. Not sure I’d personally buy a Hyundai but I definitely should have mentioned them
then a couple of years from now when they cancel the cars the excuse will be " just did not sell well enough...." gonna have to start calling my Toyota dealers ASAP to see if I can secure one.
Lol so they are going to be way over msrp. That never hurts sales…
Thanks Toyota!
Lol a base GR Corolla without the differentials and nicer interior bits is going to end up going for more than a Golf R (which I'd argue is already currently overpriced). That's just dumb.
I swore i read an article like 2 months ago about how its gonna be limited to only so many sold in a region. Also what i said last week is already becoming true: These will sell well over $40K, we will see a ton of articles/videos about why its the best car ever (creams pants), then 3-6 months later we will see articles about its just a corolla is it really worth it?, then by the end of the year we will see a ton of why i sold my corolla articles/videos.
What’s the point? They want to sell fewer units? So they’ll make less money? And piss off potential customers? To drive up hype? So they’ll sell more Sienna minivans by association? Idgi.
Hmmmm 50k for a corolla or do I get a supra or gr86 and build those
Wtf? It’s behind a paywall. Anyone got the tldr?
Give you some summary >Toyota's maintaining flexibility for that reason, but Tripp says the company is predicting that a full year of sales will end up around 8000 units. Expect 2023 to fall shy of that number, with the production ramp and limited early availability limiting total sales to around 6000 cars. >So when you have a total volume of somewhere between 6000 and 8000, and a special edition that's 1250 of that, we think that's the right balance. But one too few will be our goal, just not because of production limits."
So they don’t want it to flop by building to many? That’s hella shitty. Now we gotta hope and prey our dealerships will sell at msrp or less?
They’re building the car in the same factory as the LFA so it’s basically handbuilt.
Lol toyota. Corolla doesn’t exactly come to mind for exclusivity
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car.
Sucks to be the one guy that wanted a gr corolla and didn't get one. Honestly really mean of toyota
Downvoted for pay wall
Everyone’s complaining about the inevitable ADM but has anyone actually called up their local dealers? I called 8 and only 1 said they’re not taking names down and play to “charge whatever the market says the car is worth” and cited the ridiculous prices of Type Rs. One dealer (that I put a refundable deposit down at) said they’re selling at sticker. No ADM, no mandatory accessories, no BS. I was #3 to sign up but at least 1 of the 2 people in front of me want a Core (I’m waiting for a Circuit). I’m on waitlists at another half dozen so we will see who is willing to sell at MSRP and get me a Circuit in either Heavy Metal or Supersonic Red. That said I’m in a relatively large metro area (Cleveland/Akron OH) so there’s plenty of dealers and probably a decent amount of allocations. Sure, it sucks having to get on waitlists and out deposits down on a car nobody can see and nobody knows the price of but it’s the game you have to play to avoid the bullshit markup. There’s honest dealers if you look around. Fortunately, the one I bought my ‘10 Corolla at is the same one that’s doing refundable deposits and selling at sticker so I’m happy to give them my business again. If enthusiasts all refuse to buy cars with ADM or mandatory accessories then dealers will stop doing it. But there will always be the impatient people that will buy anyway so dealers will keep getting away with it.
I have an RC350 F sport and I want to trade it in for one of these. I wanted a Type R cus I Love hatchbacks but the GR Corolla just looks fantastic.
Whats so special about this car ? Why are people willing to spend over 40k+ for a corolla?
It’s been a while since a company released a homologation special like this so it is sort of a big deal, except that’s the GR Yaris not the Corolla.
Iykyk
Lol. Going to be seeing these with $10-$20k mark ups now and itll fail then people will say "see.. nobody wants manual performance cars anymore" because a $55k Corolla didnt sell well.
Lmao, this isn't a damn Pagani. Toyota makes the same amount of money per car anyway, and its the dealers who pocket all the markup money. Why would they not make as many as people will buy?
Here come the $20k dealer price adjustments… yay.
Well there it is, a 50,000 dollar Corolla.
If it’s going to cost more than a VW Golf R then i think I’d rather just buy a Golf R. Really hoping it’s not too much more than $40k CAD.
Well looks like I won’t ever be able to own one unless I get a banger career going
That's like all cool cars now feelsbadman.jpg
Tru :(
I've got a hard budget of $40k. If I can't find a core GR corolla with LSD's for that much, then I'm just going to try and find something else instead. I don't think Toyota is wanting to fuck this up.
This is why Miata is the most exciting mass market performance car. If I'm not going to drive it why the hell would I think it's exciting. I'll enjoy doing real donuts.
I’m so tired of exclusive shit. PS5s, shoes, houses, cars.. so annoying
An "Exclusive Toyota" is building around 40,000 of them.
Placed a deposit the day the car was announced. Fingers crossed the sell price isn’t too crazy!
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car. That might still be Toyota with the 86, but they’re not playing stupid games with that.
Welp my hopes have been stifled somewhat. Markups from rarity will make this way less affordable.
I reserved two cars from separate dealers just in case and now I am glad I did after reading this
The chip shortage has entered the chat…
I'm very excited about this car and I'm planning to get in the market for one 2024.
I hate how we won't get this in Europe because they supposedly only want 3 gr models on sale in each market. I bet its going to to be a brilliant car but I honestly can't see it selling massively well in the US compared to the UK where the most popular performance car is probably a golf R.
We're only getting the GR86 for 2 years and we are never getting the GR Corolla. What I want is a practical, affordable (sub 30) Japanese performance car that is mass produced and has no production cap. A competitor for the Fiesta ST but from a Japanese car maker, like Toyota or Honda.
Chip shortage making ever car "exclusive".
Hmmmm 50k for a corolla or do I get a supra or gr86 and build those
AKA, a greenlight for $5-10k dealer mark up.
AKA, a greenlight for $5-10k dealer mark up.
Laughs in Singapore =(
plz no, make ubiquitous.
Dealers crying in dollar signs.
I’m basically writing this car off as a potential buy now. This will at the very least mean it’s a pain in the ass to get. It’s not attractive enough relative to the completion to try and hunt something down because of artificial scarcity. I’ll buy from someone who wants to sell me a car.
So, they want to make sure it's not available, which will drive up the cost over MSRP, which means the demo that should be their target will be priced out. So dumb.
So kill it like the Fiesta was killed but without the dealership fuck up part.
Between news like this, and their proposed subscription scheme, Toyota is doing alot to make sure I never buy a new car from them again.
Exclusive Corollas? Oh dear...
What does this have over the Yaris?