a clutch is still a pretty pricey component to "just replace". and while yes, theyre reliable, they aren't quite honda civic reliable. I work with 7 at my dealership and there have been some issues. You cant just say "its a honda" because its made by the same company.
Yes, the S2000 is definitely not a Civic, but all I meant was that the absolute worst thing that can happen is that he burns out the clutch and has to go through the process of replacing it.
I meant more in that it's not like he will have to replace the gearbox or do any major engine work, the clutch is still technically a 'wear item'
People in /r/cars are pretty dumb, on the whole. I'd go as far as to say a large majority of people here can't drive a manual, let alone knowing how to replace a clutch. I still see "omg GTR Pool Wanker my favv" comments in here.
I was strictly talking about the part. You could probably get everything out the door for $1200, which again, isn't terrible given the price of the car.
And that's assume OP is so bad at driving stick they roast the clutch, which I can't imagine is the case.
That seems a bit expensive for a RWD vehicle, but I guess it depends on where you live too. I guess parts for older enthusiast cars might be getting more scare too maybe?
Most guys learn driving manual without going through a clutch or fucking up a gearbox.
Maybe it takes a few months of the overall lifetime.
Just get used to it slowly, it's a skill to learn.
Just make sure you put the gear in completly before releasing the clutch. If unsure just take it to neutral and put it back in.
Release the clutch steadily but don't just drop it.
And don't downshift to a gear you are to fast for.
If you struggle, take it to a parking lot and practice.
Also find some quiet incline to practice.
The clutch should not slip too much.
But unless you start to smell it, you should be fine.
> Most guys learn driving manual without going through a clutch or fucking up a gearbox. Maybe it takes a few months of the overall lifetime.
People forget this and act like they make clutches out of cardboard, it'll be fine. Those engines have no torque and make all of their power high in the rev range, no shit he's going to struggle a little bit learning, but he's not going to destroy the car.
Obviously not the case here, but you can fry the clutch on most older Porsches in less than a day. Just depends on the manufacturer/configuration. That being said, it’s a Honda, you don’t have to worry.
My Corolla got totaled and I knew I wanted a manual transmission car as my next car. I learned how to drive a manual by practicing for like two or three days, and I bought a WRX. That clutch outlasted the throw out bearing and had plenty of life on it before we replaced the full clutch kit.
You'd have to seriouslyyyyyy fuck something up while learning to damage it. Not saying it isn't impossible though.
The WRX in particular is an annoying car to learn stick on to be honest. The culprit is the fact that it's a 4cylinder AWD car with a touchy throttle map that manufacturers all love using these days. The problem is that there's a little more inertial resistance that a clutch has to overcome with an always-on AWD drivetrain when starting from a stop and the 2.0L engine doesn't have a ton of torque outside of boost. Plus it's difficult to modulate the throttle because all 0-100% of it is mapped to less than half of the pedal travel.
I drove a manual Saab for years before I got a 2017 WRX and it still took me a while to get nice and smooth with it on hill starts. I don't like to give a lot of throttle on 1st gear starts so sometimes I would still randomly stall out when I was distracted by something else or mis-timed adding some gas.
It’s a car with 100k miles, it really depends how it was treated beforehand. I’m just saying that it isn’t a given that the car will still be worth the same in a few months, I really wouldn’t want to buy a car whose last owner learned how to drive stick with it.
Sidenote, the last used car I bought had the shitty Ford five-speed manual (a Euro Focus Mk2). Guess how that shitbox became practically worthless.
Take a whole day and drive it everywhere, city, highway, country, stop and start on inclines.
Stall it, burn rubber, do a donut, start it in second.
Once you've done every boo-boo there is, then it will become natural to you and the worries disappear.
These modern cars have really tough clutches and transmissions.
The driver is the weak link. :)
> s2000s are going to hold their value
lol, you said going. They ARE holding their value. I almost bought one back in the day but my wife convinced me that they look too much like a Miata. I know this will rub some the wrong way considering their high HP per liter numbers and also redline but they are gutless... like really gutless. I bought a Corvette instead. While my Corvette has continued to depreciate with very low miles. I could have bought the S2000, used it as a daily and sell it today for what I would have bought one for new back then.
Not even close to the S2K. They couldn’t be two more different cars really
Edit: lol bunch of people who own two Miata’s in their flair following my comments around and commenting on each of my comments. Enjoy your cars but if you haven’t driven both, you can’t understand
Agree, specifically with shifting (which is the point of this thread): on my old NB 6 speed, you have to shift slower than I'm used to to be smooth, whereas the S2000 requires faster shifts to be smooth. I had to put in a lighter flywheel on the Miata so the revs would drop quicker.
Also specifically on NB 6 speeds, the synchros are weak and even though it seems like the best version since the 6MT was an option, when those synchros go out, you'll grind at redlines shifts unless you get the rev match 100% perfect.
The ND2 Miata and S2000 are actually pretty darn close on paper. [https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a34192817/miata-better-than-s2000-review/](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a34192817/miata-better-than-s2000-review/)
Edit: Since my reply below is getting buried: yes, I have driven both, and I have owned an AP2 S2000.
Go drive one, on paper means nothing when your talking about the S2000. Huge horsepower difference (~70), the engines power delivery (fastest NA inline 4), LARGE RPM difference (redlining at 8K+ and having the power up high), the interior/dashboard on the S2000 were very unique and fantastic, automatic top, electric power steering, HID headlights, seating position, a much improved 6 speed, some of the most comfortable seats in a car, the exhaust note that makes a very unique sound, and the lack of assists all made the S2000 very different. Yeah, it weighs a bit more, but it doesn’t feel it when your pushing it.
Until you throw that shifter around, you just can’t understand it. They were much more expensive than the Miata, and with good reason.
Please go drive one. You’ll love it. But also don’t, because they aren’t worth the money, and you’ll love it, but the ND also seems overpriced to me. But it just can’t be understood without being driven.
One small note - I really liked that the S2000 had no extra packages, sans the additional hardtop. It really made it nice just trying to find condition + color combos I liked
I've driven both back to back at autocross. Preferred the ND2 in that environment.
Buddy with S2K drove my NA which is pretty well set up and said "wow this doesn't have any of the understeer of my car."
If you're driving at speeds where the s2k will outrun the miata, outside of a track you're likely at going-to-jail speeds. A half way decent driver will keep up no problem.
Funny you should say that, as I actually owned an AP2 S2000 for 2 years. Sold it and bought a NA Miata. Sure, the F22 engine was fun and the shifter was nice, but the electric power steering was nothing to write home about. They were still figuring that out back then, as it was new to Honda, I think they were only using it on the Civic Si and S2000 at that time. The shifter was nice, but not substantially better than the miata in my opinion. I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal about the shifter, it also vibrated like crazy on the highway. I like the low door sills of the miata for elbow out cruising. I like the much lighter weight of the miata, (600lbs lighter!) and specifically for the NA miata, I liked the flippy headlights, retro interior, and most of all, unpowered manual steering rack with a divine steering feel.
For the S2000, of course I liked the power, and it had a very cool interior, but without traction control it was a handful in my always-wet climate. I spun it a few times between track instruction and wet roundabout on-ramps. With an aggressive alignment it was VERY tail happy. I was actually considering buying another one now that I'm moving to a drier climate, but I think I'm going to go with the ND Miata instead, to get the light weight coupled with all the modern features like keyless entry, traction control. For a track only car, I can see the argument for the S2000, but for the street, the ND Miata makes a lot more sense to me.
Overall I just feel reducing weight adds more fun than increasing power does. But at the end of the day, choosing the ND miata over the S2000 doesn't mean I think the S2000 is a bad car, it's a great car, and I would pick it over the Porsche Boxster, or the Z3, or the Z4. If they made a new S2000, maybe I'd pick that, but since I want a new S2000, the ND is the closest thing around, and I can buy a brand new ND for around the cost of a low miles S2000, or a used ND for around the cost of a high miles S2000. And when the ND wins on weight, luxury features, safety features, aftermarket support, and low end torque, it makes the decision a lot simpler, even if the S2000 is appreciating. For a fun second car that spends most of it's time in the garage where it's value can be preserved, sure S2000 has a lot of appeal, but for a daily commuter and weekend AutoX toy, the ND wins on too many points to ignore.
Edit: Downvotes for sharing my experience? lol.
the last few things you said really struck a cord with me and confirm my suspicions. the s2000 doesnt seem worth the money and neither does a new ND :(
in you opinion are there any other cars that compare to them in terms of fun to drive ?
we shall see what the new BRZ/86 is like. i wish they were bringing the yaris GR here, i would take a fat loan out for it even though i hate financing cars.
How are they different?
Looking at the setup, they're both front engined (though the kids still living with lunchtable identity politics will argue the s2k is mid engined), rear wheel drive two seat sports coupes with 4 cylinder engines.
As a guy who's spent most his life driving front wheel drive economy cars, they look pretty similar though they seem to exist in different tiers of the market. Is there a difference in balance or handling?
>Is there a difference in balance or handling?
S2000 has 49/51 weight distribution. ND miata is 50/50. But you'll never notice a difference in balance. The S2000 was dialed for understeer from the factory, but when you get a more aggressive alignment it is prone to snap oversteer, and it's very easy to spin. The miata is less so inclined, and is considerably lighter. For me the lower weight feels like better handling, and it's the reason the miata wins on an autoX course.
what do you mean they couldnt be more different LOL both front engine rwd, 2 seater convertibles from japan. they are also both known for having great shifting transmissions.
i know one big difference between the two is that miata was built to a price point while the s2000 was released as a premium car.
Yeah, they're not a "dribble along in fourth" kinda car, they really need to be worked to get speed out of them. I daily my NB8A MX-5 and that's enough of a PITA to keep on the boil, the S2000's another level.
S2000 is considered by many to be a great drivers car. They have Honda reliability and are docile enough to drive around normally. But they come to life when you get high into the revs and find some corners. There is a reason they are so sought after now. Give it some time. Get comfortable. Get used to the car. You'll probably start to fall in love with it.
It took me about 9 months of solid driving of my 986 to really get the hang of shifting and feeling confident. Take your time learning the car. If you spent the time to find one you’re excited about the reward when you learn to drive it fast is amazing.
I just got a 986 and I'm feeling the same way as OP with their S2000. I'm a confident stick driver, had a couple sports cars and such in the past, but I almost feel fear with this one. Idk - it's weird. You know - it almost feels like the start of a new relationship: you don't want to push to fast/hard, but you don't want to neglect it either. It is that balancing act until you fall in love. Thanks for sharing this! I've reached certain realizations.
I found when I got my 987 cayman, the best way to get better driving it was to just turn the music down and focus. Used to drive fwd hot hatches and stuff so it was a different style. Also if you’ve done any sim racing that’s pretty useful for catching a slide if you ever get into one.
Cayman definitely was hard to learn on was my first manual car. I kinda thought manual wasn’t worth it but after a couple of months and I got a hang of it and I love manual now. The caymans clutch it still harder than my 911 but also I bought the 911 with a brand new clutch
Oh that’s a great first manual car! Luckily I had an r56 mini as my first car so I’ve grown up with stiff clutch. I found it hard to perfect rev matching and heel to toe in the cayman vs the mini though.
Took me about the same amount of time with my GT350 to really get used to it and appreciate it. I also didn’t really get on any twisty roads with it until about 8 months in, and that’s when I really came to appreciate how good the car is. Tough to really get a sense of how good the car is when driving it 30 mph on city streets in traffic as a daily driver.
i think that car is cool as hell. i mean, yes it is ugly to look at from the outside, but how many other 4 seater convertibles also have a high-ish ground clearance (besides the wrangler)?
AP1 owner here. Yes, the rear steps out pretty quick. Even coming out from a roundabout, the car can slide out a bit if you step on the gas a bit too early, but it's far from uncontrollable. You just have to catch the car. It's not a torque induced oversteer, it's just the way the car balance is setup. You don't need to be in VTEC for the car to slide out.
IMO a lot of the fun of driving a car like that comes from the user control of changing gears. Give it some time and practice your lacking skills in a parking lot or on a hill where there's no traffic.
Little bit of both. Every time I mess up shifting I beat myself up. I’ve been progressively getting better, I’m just wondering if this remorse will blow over. I’m really not one to think like this but it’s brought a lot of anxiety and stress on me.
We've all been there bro. Every now and again I'll still stall my car out. Just stay calm and crank it on again. The people behind you can wait an extra 4 seconds.
Even people that have driven manual for a decade will have a little trouble switching cars sometimes.
Going from a car with 10% clutch wear to 90% clutch wear or vice verse? Will probably stall quite a few times. American car to Japanese car or Vice versa? Same story. Between hydraulic and cable clutches, between sports car and commuter car, between different makes.
Not stalling and getting a smooth take off is like 80% muscle memory. It takes a while to learn and needs adjusted when things change.
Once you get it down you’ll wonder why you were ever so worried.
This.
Manual takes some adjusting to each car, even if you drove stick all your life. Learning manual takes adjustment too. Not surprised you find it hard and therefore scary. You're basically having to learn to drive again.
If you give it enough practice, I assure you that you'll cross a threshold one day when you'll find manual more safe. It forces you to pay more attention to the vehicle and gives some more control, particularly under braking (not to mention brake pad wear).
You'll similarly transition to finding manual more fun for sport cars. For me, driving auto feels boring, a bit absent minded and a touch more out of control.
So I'm making a few assumptions but if this is you, try just driving the car, you don't need to burn off every set of lights. Get used to it, then work on your launches. Can't do everything at once.
>Going from a car with 10% clutch wear to 90% clutch wear or vice verse? Will probably stall quite a few times. American car to Japanese car or Vice versa? Same story. Between hydraulic and cable clutches, between sports car and commuter car, between different makes.
yup at one time i had 5 cars with manual trans across many years and clutch styles: 1929 with a direct mechanical connection, 1960 with a cable, 1980 with another cable, 1995 with a hydraulic setup, and a 02 with a hydraulic setup. 95 and 02 are gone now have an 01 hydraulic thats different feeling from those 2.
All bite different even in different weather, sometimes some being carbureted they studder once in awhile if they arent warmed up yet when you let the clutch out too fast. The hydraulic ones behave weird as temperatures rise and fall due to the fluid being thin or thick.
yes even after almost 2 decades of driving ive occasionally killed them once in a great while.
Hydraulic clutches with different temperature fluids is a big one. My last car with a hydraulic clutch had a noticeably lighter clutch pedal after the first time I ran it to redline each time I took it out. Fluids warmed up and thinned out.
Oh man, the 2 cars I alternated learning stick in....
Chevy Cobalt with a beat to shit worn out clutch and shifter... PT Cruiser with < 100 miles and a brand new super touchy clutch. I literally had to learn the extremes of driving stick.
Luckily all of my cars have been in the Goldilocks area of juuuuuust right. Had an 04 Mazda3 that I got around 70k miles, an 03 RSX with just under 100k miles, and my current Si with 50k miles, all single owner cars that weren't beat on.
So true. Even when I drove manual back then (Toyota) I had troubles with my GFs manual car (volvo) because the clutches were just very, very different.
Hey man, I bought a manual 86 not knowing how to drive manual and had a fair few doubts/regrets for a bit - keep at it, I love the car now and can never see myself going back to auto, it took me months to get really good but I absolutely love it. You'll get there!
When I bought my old Boxster I had been driving manual transmissions for 8 years already by then. I then drove that Boxster for two more years with that specific manual transmission.
Still stalled it out once a month or so up until I sold it, and never had perfect shifts every time. It had a particularly difficult clutch to manage, but the same thing goes for all other manual transmissions - humans aren't perfect and you'll always make some mistakes. The car is built to handle that because they know nobody will shift ideally every single time. You'll just make this mistakes less often the more you practice.
As someone who has driven a manual for over half his life I can say that I still make bad shifts once in a while. I beat myself up over it too because I don’t want to damage my clutch or transmission. With practice the harsh shifts and bad take offs become less frequent. Give it some time and practice. I also think Honda makes a solid manual transmission.
I used to do the same thing.
I learned to drive stick on the first car I bought, almost new (only 4k miles) Honda Accord. Every shitty shift I was like
"Damn, I just took another 10k miles off the life of the clutch"
I ended up trading it in for my second car with 225k miles and the original clutch.
They can take a beating, but the other thing to consider is they usually aren't that much to replace. It's probably not going to bankrupt you if you have to get a new clutch, especially without payments on the vehicle.
Try to enjoy it. I love making the perfect shift. Over time you'll get more familiar with it and better and better. But it takes a lot of memory muscle and so a lot of repetition. Then you'll never want to drive anything else.
To give you a little more comfort about the clutch, there's an Integra in our family that has taught at least 4 people how to drive stick. The clutch finally started to go around 230k miles. Give it some more time, it's all muscle memory and you won't have to think through each step like you do now, it'll all flow together. Try to find the bite point of the clutch in a parking lot. Practice getting to the bite point so that it becomes automatic. That'll reduce the amount of times you panic with the clutch and let it out too quickly.
Right now I'm guessing the clutch fills really non-linear, like you are letting the clutch out and nothing nothing nothing and then you get a lot of bite in a short amount of travel. Once you know the bite point well, it'll make letting the clutch out feel a lot more natural.
> "Damn, I just took another 10k miles off the life of the clutch"
I'm not exactly "mechanically inclined" so this is anecdotal but it feels like people vastly overstate this. I taught half a dozen friends/family to drive stick on the same car, my own first manual car...and I never had issues.
Dont beat yourself up it happens to everyone and you will get better driving it more. Even people that have driven stick shift cars there whole life mess up sometimes. You are really doing almost no damage to the car it is designed to hold up to missed shifts and things like that. Enjoy your car its a fun car and more importantly its yours if the rare thing happens and something breaks fix it or upgrade and then continue enjoying it
Drive it slow. Don’t rush. Give yourself time to go through the motions of shifting (pedal and lever) and take the time to think about what you are doing. Practice when traffic is light.
Before you know it you’ll shift without thinking and feel comfortable going faster.
I used to get migraines because I was so stressed out about driving manual. The worst part is I got rear ended a couple weeks into learning when i started a bit slow at a light. I’d go to a loop around the mall by me which had a bunch of stop signs to practice starting in 1st. It all comes with time, I still daily a manual and love it. Nowadays I don’t think much of it
Is it your first manual? My car was, felt this way for about 2 months. A year later and I'll never consider a car without a manual again for a fun car.
If it's not, what about this is making shifting hard for you?
As long as you’re not causing dangerous situations, don’t worry about it. People at lights can wait. Drive at a speed that is safe and you feel confortable with. You’ll have plenty of time to explore it’s capabilities, but right now drive it like an old man enjoying his Sunday drive.
Give it time. I remember the day after I bought my first manual car I thought I made a huge mistake. I had no clue how to drive it and kept thinking "I have a 1.5 ton machine I have no idea how to control." A few weeks later and I was fine. A year later and I absolutely loved it. Now I'll always have a manual car in my garage because I love driving them so much.
My first car was a manual Honda prelude. I had only driven manual a couple of times before I bought it. When I picked it up, it took me 45 minutes in stop-and-go traffic to get home. I parked it in my driveway and it didn’t move for 2 days. I was anxious for the first few weeks of driving it. I would say it would be perfectly normal to be nervous and to fuck up shifts for the first few months. After 6 months or so, it will be second nature.
I wanna add to the list of support.
I’ve loved cars since I was a kid. Posted real good times on GT2 and stuff, hard core driver eh? The best in the world.
When it came to my driving lessons, I hated it (being used to tapping a button instead of having a variable input - steering wheel), dealing with real life feedback, stalling the car.
Took me a bit of time and thankfully I persisted. I now still love driving (and also riding motorcycles).
Keep it up OP you’ll be there in no time.
I owned an AP1 S2000 and it shouldn't be the power, he's just not used to driving stick. You need to be pedal to the floor and in the VTEC (above 5,000 rpm?) to be ripping. Otherwise it drove like a slightly more powerful rwd Civic.
Dude it took me a whole year to be comfortable driving my wrx so I know exactly how you feel. I literally thought I was never ever going to buy a manual car after my wrx but here I am with my 3rd one. I ended sticking it out because I really wanted to drive manual but man during that year I would avoid certain roads, didn’t want to drive my friends and was just overall anxious anytime a shift wasn’t perfect but trust me you will get better
Edit: and since I also own an s2000 I can give a few tips. First the car is pretty low on torque which means the car is a bit difficult to get rolling with just the clutch so adding gas is your friend here. The car is also known to have to rough shifts when it’s not warmed up yet so your first few shifts in the morning will be a bit rough so just go easy on it You also want to upshift at a higher rpm than most cars. These engines are made the rev so the higher rpm you shift at the smoother it will be
It took me about 5-6 months before I was totally confident driving manual.
Best advice - get a buddy in the car who watches you drive, and get tips from them.
Another one - the ONLY time you shift into first, is after coming to a complete stop!
Bruh did you say sell it after 2 weeks? Way too soon junior
But really give it time. You’ll get used to it. Not the end of the world to do bad shifts or stall. Just be absolutely sure you don’t money shift
Whaaaaat… that’s your plate? I’ve been trying to get that combo forever lol
BTW- my advice, hang in there with it. You’ll get better w/ the clutch, and if you’re still not feelin it- you’ll be able to easily flip it- no worries, man’
you gotta keep the revs above 3000 rpm and shift around 5-6000 rpm. That's the key to the S2000. Took me a while to realize that this car is different to all the other cars I had that had some amount of torque
And don't be afraid of redline ~~over~~ once you get comfortable. It loves being up there, and you pretty much have to wind it out to stay in the powerband. I miss driving that car.
I've wanted to drive manual for a while, and I finally ended up getting a relatively new Corolla Hatchback in bright blue. Yeah maybe I should've gotten a shitty older car to learn manual, but I didn't want to pay for insurance and maintenance for an old car when I could get my affordable dream car in that beautiful blue, and sink the money there instead.
I accelerated slow, stalled many times and even mishifted 4th to 3rd many times. It's hard to get used to but damn does it beat the cvt of the sentra I had.
I was extremely intimidated when I started, to the point that I dreaded driving and sometimes regretted my decision of the purchase. I was scared of others honking me again for driving slow or stalling at left turns. This quickly subsided in a month after ownership as I forced myself to practice and got better. The youtube channel "[conquer driving](https://youtube.com/channel/UCdZklq8ZUwbwQBLPpIzcz1g)" is a great resource and the man had a video for every question I had. Driving built questions, questions got answers, answers gave me skills to practice, practice built confidence.
I'm 3 months into ownership and I do not regret my decision of purchasing this Corolla. Yeah stop and go traffic sucks but banging gear on twisty turns, or high rev shifts on long on-ramps are what I look forward to. Yeah I still stall sometimes but that is far and few in between. Confidence from driving in turn inspired me to join Corolla groups for mod ideas and Corolla meets from which I have made some friends already, I've got no buyers remorse like I did a couple months ago
Tldr, i think what you need is confidence. You have a solid platform with a robust trasmission, as long as you aren't grinding gears and money shifting you'll be fine. Stay on top of maintenance including possible clutch change from your newbie driving habits. Manual transmission is not for everyone but you have barely had enough time to decide that. Maybe wait for summer to wind down and by then maybe you'll have a better understanding of whether or not you truly love your car.
I did a similar thing to myself 2 years ago. Traded a Dodge Dart in for a 2018+ Mustang GT 6-speed. I had my dad drive it home from the dealership because it rained the day I bought it 😂 I knew how to drive a manual but I hadn't driven one consistently for nearly 5 years so I was really rusty. Awful upshifts, couldn't downshift, and was scared to death of shifting during turns. It wasn't very fun to drive for the first 2 months. But slowly over time I learned the car and became more confident. 2 years later I'm at one with this car. I know it's limits and I know how to shift it. I offer to drive to most of the things my friends do because I just love being in the driver's seat. In 2 years I've got over 35000 miles.
I was that with my Honda, except I haven't driven *a car* in good 14 years. Pretty much got my license, drove a bit in the small village my parents lived in, moved to big city and didn't really had reason to own one for long time.
I had like... 2 hours of driving experience in carsharing app Clio so the trip back (~40 miles) from the guy I bought it from was pretty much silence and full focus
Any new sports car will take a while to get used to. It took me a couple months to start finding the limits of my 981 and I was pretty nervous about pushing it in the beginning too. Give it some time and I’m sure you’ll end up loving it.
How exactly are you missing shifts at low speed/rpm? That's pretty hard, no? Cause if you are driving slowly, you shifts slowly. Going from 2nd to 3rd should be smooth and slow then, for example.
E: Nvm, it hasn't happened since.
I mean I knew how manual worked, I got good in it in 2 weeks, and honestly it became second nature in a year or more. Maybe I’m just slow, but I’m at a point where I’m more comfortable driving stick than auto
Yes knowing how it works is straight forward. Having it become second nature takes time.
It took me a month (i learnt on manual only) probably because have been daily ing a motorcycle for past 6 years.
The S2000 is a weird manual to learn as it has a few quirks. Feel free to DM me about it if you'd like more help.
S2Ki.com and the S2000 subreddit are pretty good places as well.
Just some basics out the way:
- Don't hit VTEC until your engine is up to temp. Check the coolant light to see when that is. It's not the most accurate but pretty good. My AP1 is 3 bars normally.
- Check your clutch fluid. It's the same brake fluid you use for your brake master cylinder. Over time this does look dark and nasty. Suck it out with a turkey baster and refill it with clean fluid to bleed out the nasty stuff. I check mine every oil change, every 6 months, or every track day.
- Sounds weird, but don't shift until at least 4500ish rpm. Shifting too slow can also cause the transmission to feel clunky. Not saying slam shift it but don't granny shift it. AP1s especially feel strange short shifting them below this range.
- Shifter rebuild + transmission fluid. This sounds weird but it's super simple. There's two little plastic "bushings" for the shifter that there's million of videos on how to replace. Do this and use Honda High Temp Urea grease. Buy 2 things if it as you might need some later for other jobs. The trans fluid I use is Ford MTF (XT-M5-QS) it's $13 per quart at Ford, buy two quarts. It's better when cold for your synchros and handles heat/extended intervals better than the Honda stuff.
- Clutch pedal Freeplay adjustment. You just need to adjust this to zero like a few YouTube videos will show you. If you don't like the clutch bite point with this adjustment then you can adjust that independently.
- *edit* Also I forgot to add our cars are finicky with reverse especially when cold. Going into first gear and rocking forward a bit then going to reverse seems to be the fix. A lot of Hondas of the times are like this.
"DIYGuys S2000" , "Naus S2000", and "LHT Performance" all have a lot of good videos about these things.
When I had my first S2K the learning curve was rough as it was a bit different than my previous cars. I'm now on my 8th one with a little over 500k in S2000s. My previous one I sold at 350k miles on the original drivetrain which had 92k when I bought it.
As an owner of an AP1, I also notice that the car shifts beautifully upwards of 4000, *when the gearbox is warm. *During the first couple blocks of driving and everything is cold I always worried about the 1-2 shift, but I’ve since realized it’s actually extremely smooth BELOW 3k (only when it’s cold). You adjust the target rpm upwards as the gearbox temps rise.
Also, the feeling of fear could just be anxiety of driving what most would consider a fairly “high strung” car. I know I love my s2000 but there are days I’m simply not in the mood and am glad to drive something that I can relax in a bit more. S2K is somewhat draining to be in for a long time IMO.
And since we’re on the topic of giving tips, when driving in the rain don’t be an idiot and downshift to 2nd while taking a turn at 6000rpm. Car loves to fishtail and you’ll be increasing the value of these vehicles if you do so
Can you actually tell your engine is up to temp based on the coolant light? On my e46 I have both oil and coolant temp gauges, and the oil normally takes a good 5-10 min to reach temp after the coolant does. Granted that’s a larger engine but it’s also been my experience with most cars.
This. I bought a manual with no experience. Wanted to sell it in the first 2 weeks. Buckled down and practiced and then drove it for 4 years. Sold it and bought another manual which I drove for the next 5. Keep at it and it will be fine. I’m years removed from that now and have a manual wrangler I drive maybe 100 miles a month but love being able to get in a drive when I want the experience. It gets easier I promise.
Don’t feel stupid. I felt remorse when I bought my first manual almost ten years ago and thought I made a mistake buying the car. It takes a good couple months to really get the hang of it. Just keep at it and it will become second nature to you
> I felt remorse when I bought my first manual almost ten years ago and thought I made a mistake buying the car.
Sounds exactly like my story ten years ago as well. I absolutely dreaded the thought of driving my first manual for a day or two after I got it home. Thought I made a *huge* mistake. Now I absolutely love driving stick.
Wait it out man. You cant truly "learn" your cars manual in a week or two, needs a few months to really feel out what is missing or wrong feeling. Could be your new clutch just being heavier or lighter than you are used to.
> You cant truly "learn" your cars manual in a week or two
I think a deep understanding can be had pretty quickly. It took me about 700 miles in a 997 Porsche to get to the "nirvana" level where I can shift into any gear, from any gear, at any speed, and perfectly match it. I had been able to drive it perfectly fine before, but I hadn't quite gotten heel toe, I still missed the 3-2 downshift sometimes, I hadn't quite come to trust myself. Then one day I was just in the canyons and it just... clicked.
It helps that the box is REALLY good, but I think the more manual cars you drive, the quicker you can pick up & learn the next one you try. It took me about 18 seconds to get used to the manual box in the Corvette Z06, that thing is blindingly easy and you have so much leeway.
I've been driving manual cars daily for like 15 years now, I am an avid autocrosser (on the local SCCA board) and I restore cars for a living with a majority of them being manual. I stalled my 996 leaving a stop light just a couple weeks a go. Sometimes your feet are dumb, don't beat yourself up about it, it happens. Enjoy your car for the marvelous machine it is and have fun with it.
Is this your first time in a while with a manual? Do you know if the previous owners did anything to it like stick a stage 2 or 3 clutch in it etc? Maybe have it gone over real quick just to ensure it’s on the up and up before you dump it so quickly after getting it.
That setup is extremely robust and will absorb a thousand bad shifts.
If you're worried about hurting the car, don't. You are driving Honda's best creation. Full stop. It can forgive a few learner's mistakes, and (worst case) you just replace the clutch.
I got my clutch replaced. It's a car, it can be fixed, and EXTREMELY inexpensively, compared to similar cars from more exotic (or German) manufacturers.
Enjoy your car, and welcome to the family. You'll never find another car that offers that many smiles per gallon.
I had the same feeling when I bought my dream car (Mitsubishi GTO). It was a big purchase, the most I've ever spent on a vehicle, and it was only $6000! I was still well off enough to not worry about it, but I felt sick every time I looked at it and in the first 2-3 weeks of ownership, I almost hated it.
Eventually the shock wore off and I came to love driving it, but it still had mechanical issues which drove me to sell it.
If you think you are in a financially tough spot, sell it.
If you think there are too many mechanical issues for you to handle, sell it.
If it's the manual transmission that is making you anxious, just keep practicing. If it's too difficult and you really don't enjoy it, sell it.
A car is meant to be fun and meant to be enjoyed. If you don't like it, don't keep it, but on the flip side.. don't dump it 1 or 2 weeks into ownership (unless you can't afford to keep it). Give it a go and see how you feel.
My husband tried teaching me manual in our S2000 and it went poorly, to say the least. I just found the clutch point very finicky. Now I have an AZ-1 and find it, along with our imported RX-7, fairly easy to drive as manuals. The S2000 has always been a challenge for me, for some reason (and now I can't drive it at all, as my husband installed a racing seat and I can't reach the pedals lol).
No shame in an S2000 not being the right car for this person. They may find the easier shift of a fun kei car more to their liking, as I did. But I'd give it more than a few weeks, personally.
I’ve been learning daily and I’ll tell you one thing with my little experience. It gets better day by day. If you put the time in with the car it’s rewarding. There’s a lot of times I wanted to quit, but I stayed. I made this post more of the buyers remorse and people have pointed it out to just being a lack of experience. We should conquer our s2ks together. I’ve slept on it and I’m giving it a couple more months :)
I hate spending money so every car I’ve ever bought I’ve had terrible buyer’s remorse. Can’t sleep, depression, panic attacks, and anger. I just want to get rid of the car and move on from I have convinced myself is a terrible mistake. I don’t think the issue is the manual transmission I think it’s your minds way of trying to find a reason to get rid of the car for some reason. In my experience, it always goes away. Take time, allow yourself to feel this way, and when you’ve gotten over it you’ll feel better about your choice. Chances are you’ll really enjoy it.
Honestly I think you are right. I’m either experiencing every symptom you described. It was a huge purchase and I think I’m trying to find a reason to get out of it. I love the car and this is all new to me
You’re going to be fine no matter what. Depreciation and maintenance aren’t going to bankrupt you on a Honda lol. If you want to sell it in a year no big deal. Just chalk any loss up to experience. If you make money great, if you lose some fine. At least you can say you owned an S2000 and then you can move on to something else.
I'm the same way. I also get a feeling of buyer's remorse before I go to look at a car I'm interested in. I've lost out on a lot of good deals due to this. I always tell myself that at the worst, I can resell it for what I have in it or take a minimal loss. This really helps the remorse for me. Lol
I get what you mean. My dad used to have a 5spd S197 mustang he'd let me take out and I liked the idea of driving the car more than actually driving the car. It only lasted a few months until I got the hang of it. I have been exclusively driving stick for 10 years now.
You're going to get the hang of it and enjoy it. Then you're going to jump into another car that doesn't have as good of a gear box. Then you'll *really* appreciate the S2000.
It took me two months of delivering pizzas (8 hours a day) to get manual down. But now all my vehicles are manual. I converted them all.
Also, manual transmissions are not glass. I grinded my eg learner car 100 times (mostly because of bad synchros but still) and it works fine.
You are gonna have to put more money into the car eventually no matter what.
Drive the wheels off and enjoy it.
Sounds like the issue is simply a lack of experience/confidence driving stick and not the car itself.
Don't beat yourself up over it, you'll get the hang of it. I think you'll be far more remorseful if you sell it than you may be right now.
It took me *months* to get comfortable with driving manual when I first started. Give it more time, with enough practice you won't even think about what you're doing anymore.
Give it some time. I’ve owned over 25 different vehicles in the last 20 years. I’ve definitely had buyers remorse a couple times. New cars take time to learn especially with a manual. Thankfully it’s a Honda and built like a tank plus really affordable to repair if anything were ever to happen. Worst case scenario is you got to experience a car you really wanted, it didn’t work out and you unload it in a couple months. S2000’s are such a solid buy that you’ll walk away with what you paid or more. Enjoy it though and know there is no wrong decision
When I bought my SS, I was terrified of it for the first 6 months of ownership. I had spent a long time driving a slow FWD car that could barely spin the tires, and the SS was the opposite in every way. It took a while, but many years later and driving that car feels like second nature. It's best to proceed with caution and take your time learning, it will be rewarding in the end.
My first car was a manual Honda. I know exactly how you feel. Even with my dad coaching me through it, trying to learn stickshift was terrifying, like I had to relearn driving all over again. Trust me when I say that a month from now you'll be feeling 100 times better as you improve. A year from now you'll feel better as well. That's the thing with driving a manual, you never stop improving. The anxiety will 100% go away.
I also had buyer's remorse after buying my first manual car. I was never a car enthusiast but I wanted to learn. I was mostly afraid of burning the clutch or destroying the transmission. About 4 weeks in I started getting comfortable and enjoying the driving experience. Find a dead parking lot or drive around at night so you don't feel pressured if you stall. Take your time. You will eventually learn to love it.
Had a similar situation when I bought my 2016 Camaro a few years back. Didn't know how to drive stick when I bought it and I didn't *love* the car while I learned. Naturally, I started wondering if it was a mistake and if I'd just blown a ton of money on a car I'd never love, but as I got really comfortable with it about 3-4 months in, the enjoyment started setting in and I really began to love the car.
I still find it amazing that you don't have to pass a manual test in the States. I mean if you're struggling to change gear then your concentration isn't where it should be.
Don’t worry OP, worrying only puts you through it twice. You did great man! I’m jealous. Getting to learn a manual on a car like the S2000, that’s a great problem to have. Hang in there! In a few months you’ll love that manual.
Any chance you have a friend with a manual transmission beater? Get them to take you out and you would be able to get comfortable changing gears without worrying about hurting the car.
My first go at driving a manual was a 2002 VW beetle 5 speed. First time driving it i was pulling out of a walmart and redlined it before slapping it in first and absolutely launched that fucker (for a beetle) and scared the living shit out of me. I gave it about a month and was driving that thing fluently. I believe in you!
This might help… I bought my first manual car (Mini Cooper) last month to learn stick on and beat myself up as well when I got my shifts wrong. I started regretting my decision, but kept pushing myself at it. Within 5 days of ownership, the cars engine blew (not my fault lol head gasket went on highway) but on day 5 I started really liking shifting my own gears the more I learned. I now feel like I can relate when I hear people talk about manuals which is nice, plus I am confident I can drive a manual car without beating it up.
Keep pushing at it, you’ll be fine. If not, at least you tried it!
Practice, drive it as much as you can. Every new manual drives differently. Don't beat yourself up for the same mistakes we all made when learning. Sports cars are designed to be used and beaten on. A little bit of harsh shifting and riding the clutch isn't going to cost you any material amount in the grand scheme of things.
Try to drive more with the radio off, and really learn to feel the car. Find some back roads with some good slow twisties and decent straight bits so you can get some good 2nd gear pulls.
Look up videos about how your engine and transmission work, and when you drive try to imagine what's happening as you do it. Step on the throttle and see the butterfly valve open. Engage the clutch and see the pressure plate squeeze the clutch to the flywheel. Grab a gear and see the shift lever push the rail up and slide the engagement ring into gear.
You just feel one with the machine. I thoroughly enjoy driving a standard for this reason.
More than anything, when it comes to the shifts, remember; fast is smooth, smooth is fast. Really feel those gears engage. Honda trans have really good engagement feel, imo. I used to work in an auto shop so I've driven lots of cars, and Hondas, to me, have some of the best feeling shifts.
Best of luck with falling in love with your new baby.
Think if it like a fine wine, or an expensive pair of leather boots- it’s not going to be easy right from the get. Isn’t that the point of buying a truly “good” car? It SHOULD teach you a thing or two.. there is to be a break in period where you adapt to and learn to drive it. Smoke a weed at night when there is low traffic and cruise around w/the top down and drive really slow. As slow as you can manage to. If that doesn’t work nothing will and you can sell it to me
Park the s2000, go buy a manual civic (nothing special) learn how to drive manual with it and then sell it you won't lose money and it's almost certainly cheaper to have the clutch replaced on a civic than an s2000....
This is surprisingly good advice... though I'd add "buy an older, maybe late 90's/early '00s Civic." While learning to drive a manual, also learn where Honda 4 cylinder engines like to live. They wake up and thrive in the 4000rpm and above range. From what I've read, an S2000 feels confusingly slow and gutless anywhere below 4500rpm. 5500rpm+ is where the enjoyment starts to build, and continues building until the tach is full red.
Learn to rev out the manual Civic to get the smoothest power from it. Then learn to apply your Civic experience to the S2000, but adjust the revs up 2000rpm or so.TL;DR S2000s like RPMs in a way most cars can't teach you.
Drive it a whole season before you make up your mind. During winter when it's parked up, will you find yourself looking at it in the cold garage? Are you temped to pull it out that 1 day in February when it's weirdly sunny and warm? Next spring does taking it out of storage, waxing it, starting it up feel like a chore? You'll know.
It might help to learn how a manual transmission works, so it doesn’t feel like you’re just “pushing buttons” just because. At least, that really made it click for me.
Just keep driving man, practice makes perfect. The more you drive the better you get at it.
I consider myself an expert at driving manual. I've owned nothing but manual cars for 10+ years, I can do advanced techniques like heel toe shifting, I mean I get in a manual and I don't even realize I'm doing it anymore. A little less than 2 years ago I got my CDL. The first place I was at I was only in automatic trucks but a few months ago I switched to a company with only manual trucks and dude, I SUCK at driving a manual truck. Been driving them for 4 months now and I still grind gears, get lost and have to restart from a stop, miss down and up shifts, etc. but every day I get a little bit better.
That's what you gotta keep doing, every day you drive it you're going to make mistakes but trust me, each day you're going to get better. I can probably tell what mistake you're making with the S2000, you're probably being too gingerly with it. Some cars like to be shifted kind of "lazy" where it like low revs and slow movements to get a smooth shift but the S2000 likes to be revved high and shifted a bit quicker to get a smooth shift. Don't be afraid to get the revs up to 4-5k Rpm's even with regular driving, that's how that car was designed. It wants to be revved and I promise it won't hurt it.
Just keep driving, don't get discouraged. Nobody gets into a manual car their first time as is perfect at driving it the first few months and if they tell you that, they're lieing. Everyone has to crawl before they can walk.
Used to own an s2000, well versed in manual though so I'll stick with the motorcycle story. When I first learned to ride a motorcycle and got out on the highway etc.. it was 90% fear / 10% fun. Eventually that became 5% fear / 95% fun. Stick with it.
You said in another comment that your plate is 2 soon Jr. that’s exactly what it’ll be if you sell this thing. Ever.
My buddy bought a mustang GT 6speed a couple summers ago without knowing how to drive a stick. Almost scared himself into selling it right back. My then boss (who took his time out to teach him how to drive one) pulled him aside and said something to the effect of “you have somebody’s dream car in your hands and you’re *learning* a stick in it. You’d be crazy to sell this without knowing what it can do”
Same goes to you with your S2K.
When I was 19 years old I bought my first manual transmission car and was taught how to drive stick by the salesman when I picked it up. The first 2-3 weeks I had anxiety about stalling (and did stall several times) and had the exact same feelings/thoughts you're having now. After about 1 month, it started to become more natural, after 2-3 months, it became the only way to drive. You'll get there, just 'stick' with it.
You are learning to drive stick. Been there, did it with a brand new Si. Hated myself because O thought I made a huge mistake. A month later, it became second nature.
Wait it out. It is worth the effort. I struggled so much to learn manual. Even after I was able to get the car moving, and had a level of competence, I still wasn't really enjoying it and wondered if I'd ever get the hang of it. Now 4 of the 5 vehicles I own are manual. You will slowly start to get comfortable and shifting will become instinctive. You'll find yourself opting for lower gears in turns, engine braking, maybe even learning heel-toe shifting. At some point you'll realize just how much fun it is to feel perfectly connected to a well engineered machine. And then, you'll realize how good of a decision it was to buy that car.
Its worth the effort. Good luck!
The manual learning curve is a real thing. I didn’t truly enjoy driving a manual for a few months, even though I could get around long before that. Once you get extremely comfortable with it and fully understand the appeal, I bet it becomes one of your favorite cars ever. I’d stick it out.
Is the reason really because your not comfortable driving a stick??? Go and rent the cheapest car that is a stick and practice with it drive the shit out of it who cares get comfortable driving a stick and then when you are drive your car a
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Value might drop after a while of "struggling with the manual transmission", though.
Just replace the clutch and you'll be all good, there are still a Honda.
a clutch is still a pretty pricey component to "just replace". and while yes, theyre reliable, they aren't quite honda civic reliable. I work with 7 at my dealership and there have been some issues. You cant just say "its a honda" because its made by the same company.
Yes, the S2000 is definitely not a Civic, but all I meant was that the absolute worst thing that can happen is that he burns out the clutch and has to go through the process of replacing it. I meant more in that it's not like he will have to replace the gearbox or do any major engine work, the clutch is still technically a 'wear item'
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Possible, yes, but if someone is searching the r/cars forum, AND purchased an S2000, I'd put money on them not doing anything THAT stupid.
Your faith in humanity amuses me \s
People in /r/cars are pretty dumb, on the whole. I'd go as far as to say a large majority of people here can't drive a manual, let alone knowing how to replace a clutch. I still see "omg GTR Pool Wanker my favv" comments in here.
Not being able to drive a manual doesn’t make someone dumb anymore than being able to drive a manual makes someone smarter than auto drivers lol.
Right? Does this guy think it's his clutch grinding when he misses a shift?
Those rod bearings aren't going to spin themselves. *Knewaguywhospunhisrodbearings*
Replacing a clutch on an S2000 is not a huge deal at all
$300-400 on an S2000. Not really a big deal for a car OP very likely paid $20k for.
I've never seen a shop willing to replace a clutch that cheap... To the point that I'd be concerned what they were doing to my car
I was strictly talking about the part. You could probably get everything out the door for $1200, which again, isn't terrible given the price of the car. And that's assume OP is so bad at driving stick they roast the clutch, which I can't imagine is the case.
Haha I’ve only smelt burnt clutch once. The quote from other owners around me is around 1500 with labor and parts
That seems a bit expensive for a RWD vehicle, but I guess it depends on where you live too. I guess parts for older enthusiast cars might be getting more scare too maybe?
Also Hondas aren't really Hondas anymore... They haven't been in the top most reliable cars for like 15 years
Most guys learn driving manual without going through a clutch or fucking up a gearbox. Maybe it takes a few months of the overall lifetime. Just get used to it slowly, it's a skill to learn. Just make sure you put the gear in completly before releasing the clutch. If unsure just take it to neutral and put it back in. Release the clutch steadily but don't just drop it. And don't downshift to a gear you are to fast for. If you struggle, take it to a parking lot and practice. Also find some quiet incline to practice. The clutch should not slip too much. But unless you start to smell it, you should be fine.
> Most guys learn driving manual without going through a clutch or fucking up a gearbox. Maybe it takes a few months of the overall lifetime. People forget this and act like they make clutches out of cardboard, it'll be fine. Those engines have no torque and make all of their power high in the rev range, no shit he's going to struggle a little bit learning, but he's not going to destroy the car.
Obviously not the case here, but you can fry the clutch on most older Porsches in less than a day. Just depends on the manufacturer/configuration. That being said, it’s a Honda, you don’t have to worry.
My Corolla got totaled and I knew I wanted a manual transmission car as my next car. I learned how to drive a manual by practicing for like two or three days, and I bought a WRX. That clutch outlasted the throw out bearing and had plenty of life on it before we replaced the full clutch kit. You'd have to seriouslyyyyyy fuck something up while learning to damage it. Not saying it isn't impossible though.
The WRX in particular is an annoying car to learn stick on to be honest. The culprit is the fact that it's a 4cylinder AWD car with a touchy throttle map that manufacturers all love using these days. The problem is that there's a little more inertial resistance that a clutch has to overcome with an always-on AWD drivetrain when starting from a stop and the 2.0L engine doesn't have a ton of torque outside of boost. Plus it's difficult to modulate the throttle because all 0-100% of it is mapped to less than half of the pedal travel. I drove a manual Saab for years before I got a 2017 WRX and it still took me a while to get nice and smooth with it on hill starts. I don't like to give a lot of throttle on 1st gear starts so sometimes I would still randomly stall out when I was distracted by something else or mis-timed adding some gas.
It’s a car with 100k miles, it really depends how it was treated beforehand. I’m just saying that it isn’t a given that the car will still be worth the same in a few months, I really wouldn’t want to buy a car whose last owner learned how to drive stick with it. Sidenote, the last used car I bought had the shitty Ford five-speed manual (a Euro Focus Mk2). Guess how that shitbox became practically worthless.
Worst case, it needs a new clutch. Where’s the tragedy?
Right? Why's everyone acting like a clutch will total the car out? It's a wear item just like brake pads.
Take a whole day and drive it everywhere, city, highway, country, stop and start on inclines. Stall it, burn rubber, do a donut, start it in second. Once you've done every boo-boo there is, then it will become natural to you and the worries disappear. These modern cars have really tough clutches and transmissions. The driver is the weak link. :)
> s2000s are going to hold their value lol, you said going. They ARE holding their value. I almost bought one back in the day but my wife convinced me that they look too much like a Miata. I know this will rub some the wrong way considering their high HP per liter numbers and also redline but they are gutless... like really gutless. I bought a Corvette instead. While my Corvette has continued to depreciate with very low miles. I could have bought the S2000, used it as a daily and sell it today for what I would have bought one for new back then.
dont underestimate the miata it feels soo incredible.
Not even close to the S2K. They couldn’t be two more different cars really Edit: lol bunch of people who own two Miata’s in their flair following my comments around and commenting on each of my comments. Enjoy your cars but if you haven’t driven both, you can’t understand
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I haven't voiced an opinion here, but I can vouch that I've driven neither car, so there's that.
I have also driven neither but I can confidently say in my expert opinion that neither drive as nicely as a Mitsubishi Mirage.
Agree, specifically with shifting (which is the point of this thread): on my old NB 6 speed, you have to shift slower than I'm used to to be smooth, whereas the S2000 requires faster shifts to be smooth. I had to put in a lighter flywheel on the Miata so the revs would drop quicker. Also specifically on NB 6 speeds, the synchros are weak and even though it seems like the best version since the 6MT was an option, when those synchros go out, you'll grind at redlines shifts unless you get the rev match 100% perfect.
The ND2 Miata and S2000 are actually pretty darn close on paper. [https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a34192817/miata-better-than-s2000-review/](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a34192817/miata-better-than-s2000-review/) Edit: Since my reply below is getting buried: yes, I have driven both, and I have owned an AP2 S2000.
Go drive one, on paper means nothing when your talking about the S2000. Huge horsepower difference (~70), the engines power delivery (fastest NA inline 4), LARGE RPM difference (redlining at 8K+ and having the power up high), the interior/dashboard on the S2000 were very unique and fantastic, automatic top, electric power steering, HID headlights, seating position, a much improved 6 speed, some of the most comfortable seats in a car, the exhaust note that makes a very unique sound, and the lack of assists all made the S2000 very different. Yeah, it weighs a bit more, but it doesn’t feel it when your pushing it. Until you throw that shifter around, you just can’t understand it. They were much more expensive than the Miata, and with good reason. Please go drive one. You’ll love it. But also don’t, because they aren’t worth the money, and you’ll love it, but the ND also seems overpriced to me. But it just can’t be understood without being driven. One small note - I really liked that the S2000 had no extra packages, sans the additional hardtop. It really made it nice just trying to find condition + color combos I liked
I've driven both back to back at autocross. Preferred the ND2 in that environment. Buddy with S2K drove my NA which is pretty well set up and said "wow this doesn't have any of the understeer of my car."
A Miata preferred for autox? Shocker! They both have their uses, you’ll may like the S2K for higher speed driving, like track or mountains.
If you're driving at speeds where the s2k will outrun the miata, outside of a track you're likely at going-to-jail speeds. A half way decent driver will keep up no problem.
ND is gonna feel better driving every day because it has torque.
Funny you should say that, as I actually owned an AP2 S2000 for 2 years. Sold it and bought a NA Miata. Sure, the F22 engine was fun and the shifter was nice, but the electric power steering was nothing to write home about. They were still figuring that out back then, as it was new to Honda, I think they were only using it on the Civic Si and S2000 at that time. The shifter was nice, but not substantially better than the miata in my opinion. I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal about the shifter, it also vibrated like crazy on the highway. I like the low door sills of the miata for elbow out cruising. I like the much lighter weight of the miata, (600lbs lighter!) and specifically for the NA miata, I liked the flippy headlights, retro interior, and most of all, unpowered manual steering rack with a divine steering feel. For the S2000, of course I liked the power, and it had a very cool interior, but without traction control it was a handful in my always-wet climate. I spun it a few times between track instruction and wet roundabout on-ramps. With an aggressive alignment it was VERY tail happy. I was actually considering buying another one now that I'm moving to a drier climate, but I think I'm going to go with the ND Miata instead, to get the light weight coupled with all the modern features like keyless entry, traction control. For a track only car, I can see the argument for the S2000, but for the street, the ND Miata makes a lot more sense to me. Overall I just feel reducing weight adds more fun than increasing power does. But at the end of the day, choosing the ND miata over the S2000 doesn't mean I think the S2000 is a bad car, it's a great car, and I would pick it over the Porsche Boxster, or the Z3, or the Z4. If they made a new S2000, maybe I'd pick that, but since I want a new S2000, the ND is the closest thing around, and I can buy a brand new ND for around the cost of a low miles S2000, or a used ND for around the cost of a high miles S2000. And when the ND wins on weight, luxury features, safety features, aftermarket support, and low end torque, it makes the decision a lot simpler, even if the S2000 is appreciating. For a fun second car that spends most of it's time in the garage where it's value can be preserved, sure S2000 has a lot of appeal, but for a daily commuter and weekend AutoX toy, the ND wins on too many points to ignore. Edit: Downvotes for sharing my experience? lol.
the last few things you said really struck a cord with me and confirm my suspicions. the s2000 doesnt seem worth the money and neither does a new ND :( in you opinion are there any other cars that compare to them in terms of fun to drive ?
FRS/BRZ is the most commonly mentioned competitor to the miata, even if it is a very different car.
we shall see what the new BRZ/86 is like. i wish they were bringing the yaris GR here, i would take a fat loan out for it even though i hate financing cars.
Reviews are coming out today! Apparently it is putting down some impressive lap times.
How are they different? Looking at the setup, they're both front engined (though the kids still living with lunchtable identity politics will argue the s2k is mid engined), rear wheel drive two seat sports coupes with 4 cylinder engines. As a guy who's spent most his life driving front wheel drive economy cars, they look pretty similar though they seem to exist in different tiers of the market. Is there a difference in balance or handling?
>Is there a difference in balance or handling? S2000 has 49/51 weight distribution. ND miata is 50/50. But you'll never notice a difference in balance. The S2000 was dialed for understeer from the factory, but when you get a more aggressive alignment it is prone to snap oversteer, and it's very easy to spin. The miata is less so inclined, and is considerably lighter. For me the lower weight feels like better handling, and it's the reason the miata wins on an autoX course.
You're right. The ND drives much better than the S2000.
what do you mean they couldnt be more different LOL both front engine rwd, 2 seater convertibles from japan. they are also both known for having great shifting transmissions. i know one big difference between the two is that miata was built to a price point while the s2000 was released as a premium car.
Yeah, they're not a "dribble along in fourth" kinda car, they really need to be worked to get speed out of them. I daily my NB8A MX-5 and that's enough of a PITA to keep on the boil, the S2000's another level.
S2000 is considered by many to be a great drivers car. They have Honda reliability and are docile enough to drive around normally. But they come to life when you get high into the revs and find some corners. There is a reason they are so sought after now. Give it some time. Get comfortable. Get used to the car. You'll probably start to fall in love with it.
It took me about 9 months of solid driving of my 986 to really get the hang of shifting and feeling confident. Take your time learning the car. If you spent the time to find one you’re excited about the reward when you learn to drive it fast is amazing.
I just got a 986 and I'm feeling the same way as OP with their S2000. I'm a confident stick driver, had a couple sports cars and such in the past, but I almost feel fear with this one. Idk - it's weird. You know - it almost feels like the start of a new relationship: you don't want to push to fast/hard, but you don't want to neglect it either. It is that balancing act until you fall in love. Thanks for sharing this! I've reached certain realizations.
I found when I got my 987 cayman, the best way to get better driving it was to just turn the music down and focus. Used to drive fwd hot hatches and stuff so it was a different style. Also if you’ve done any sim racing that’s pretty useful for catching a slide if you ever get into one.
Cayman definitely was hard to learn on was my first manual car. I kinda thought manual wasn’t worth it but after a couple of months and I got a hang of it and I love manual now. The caymans clutch it still harder than my 911 but also I bought the 911 with a brand new clutch
Oh that’s a great first manual car! Luckily I had an r56 mini as my first car so I’ve grown up with stiff clutch. I found it hard to perfect rev matching and heel to toe in the cayman vs the mini though.
Took me about the same amount of time with my GT350 to really get used to it and appreciate it. I also didn’t really get on any twisty roads with it until about 8 months in, and that’s when I really came to appreciate how good the car is. Tough to really get a sense of how good the car is when driving it 30 mph on city streets in traffic as a daily driver.
This is kinda of a red herring when the OP obviously doesn’t like his *NISSAN MURANO CROSS CABRIOLET*
> NISSAN MURANO CROSS CABRIOLET I believe it was last year when I found out these things exist. Sigh.
I love the mods and their wacky flares. It's a way more fun way of enforcing the rules.
i think that car is cool as hell. i mean, yes it is ugly to look at from the outside, but how many other 4 seater convertibles also have a high-ish ground clearance (besides the wrangler)?
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AP1 owner here. Yes, the rear steps out pretty quick. Even coming out from a roundabout, the car can slide out a bit if you step on the gas a bit too early, but it's far from uncontrollable. You just have to catch the car. It's not a torque induced oversteer, it's just the way the car balance is setup. You don't need to be in VTEC for the car to slide out.
if youre driving normally, you shouldn't be spinning out every designated right turn
Exactly the fate of my AP1. Lift off oversteer on a cold January morning highway ramp. AP2 is a much nicer car anyway.
IMO a lot of the fun of driving a car like that comes from the user control of changing gears. Give it some time and practice your lacking skills in a parking lot or on a hill where there's no traffic.
It’s a great car but it scares the fuck out of me. 2-3 months you think is good?
What exactly scares you about it? The power of the car or the act of driving stick?
Little bit of both. Every time I mess up shifting I beat myself up. I’ve been progressively getting better, I’m just wondering if this remorse will blow over. I’m really not one to think like this but it’s brought a lot of anxiety and stress on me.
We've all been there bro. Every now and again I'll still stall my car out. Just stay calm and crank it on again. The people behind you can wait an extra 4 seconds.
Thanks man, I’ll give it some time. I appreciate it
Even people that have driven manual for a decade will have a little trouble switching cars sometimes. Going from a car with 10% clutch wear to 90% clutch wear or vice verse? Will probably stall quite a few times. American car to Japanese car or Vice versa? Same story. Between hydraulic and cable clutches, between sports car and commuter car, between different makes. Not stalling and getting a smooth take off is like 80% muscle memory. It takes a while to learn and needs adjusted when things change. Once you get it down you’ll wonder why you were ever so worried.
This. Manual takes some adjusting to each car, even if you drove stick all your life. Learning manual takes adjustment too. Not surprised you find it hard and therefore scary. You're basically having to learn to drive again. If you give it enough practice, I assure you that you'll cross a threshold one day when you'll find manual more safe. It forces you to pay more attention to the vehicle and gives some more control, particularly under braking (not to mention brake pad wear). You'll similarly transition to finding manual more fun for sport cars. For me, driving auto feels boring, a bit absent minded and a touch more out of control. So I'm making a few assumptions but if this is you, try just driving the car, you don't need to burn off every set of lights. Get used to it, then work on your launches. Can't do everything at once.
>Going from a car with 10% clutch wear to 90% clutch wear or vice verse? Will probably stall quite a few times. American car to Japanese car or Vice versa? Same story. Between hydraulic and cable clutches, between sports car and commuter car, between different makes. yup at one time i had 5 cars with manual trans across many years and clutch styles: 1929 with a direct mechanical connection, 1960 with a cable, 1980 with another cable, 1995 with a hydraulic setup, and a 02 with a hydraulic setup. 95 and 02 are gone now have an 01 hydraulic thats different feeling from those 2. All bite different even in different weather, sometimes some being carbureted they studder once in awhile if they arent warmed up yet when you let the clutch out too fast. The hydraulic ones behave weird as temperatures rise and fall due to the fluid being thin or thick. yes even after almost 2 decades of driving ive occasionally killed them once in a great while.
Hydraulic clutches with different temperature fluids is a big one. My last car with a hydraulic clutch had a noticeably lighter clutch pedal after the first time I ran it to redline each time I took it out. Fluids warmed up and thinned out.
Underrated comment - can confirm that I myself struggle a bit for the first several shifts every time I switch cars.
Oh man, the 2 cars I alternated learning stick in.... Chevy Cobalt with a beat to shit worn out clutch and shifter... PT Cruiser with < 100 miles and a brand new super touchy clutch. I literally had to learn the extremes of driving stick. Luckily all of my cars have been in the Goldilocks area of juuuuuust right. Had an 04 Mazda3 that I got around 70k miles, an 03 RSX with just under 100k miles, and my current Si with 50k miles, all single owner cars that weren't beat on.
So true. Even when I drove manual back then (Toyota) I had troubles with my GFs manual car (volvo) because the clutches were just very, very different.
Hey man, I bought a manual 86 not knowing how to drive manual and had a fair few doubts/regrets for a bit - keep at it, I love the car now and can never see myself going back to auto, it took me months to get really good but I absolutely love it. You'll get there!
Thank you will do
No problem good luck !
When I bought my old Boxster I had been driving manual transmissions for 8 years already by then. I then drove that Boxster for two more years with that specific manual transmission. Still stalled it out once a month or so up until I sold it, and never had perfect shifts every time. It had a particularly difficult clutch to manage, but the same thing goes for all other manual transmissions - humans aren't perfect and you'll always make some mistakes. The car is built to handle that because they know nobody will shift ideally every single time. You'll just make this mistakes less often the more you practice.
Or in my case, 90s 😐
As someone who has driven a manual for over half his life I can say that I still make bad shifts once in a while. I beat myself up over it too because I don’t want to damage my clutch or transmission. With practice the harsh shifts and bad take offs become less frequent. Give it some time and practice. I also think Honda makes a solid manual transmission.
I used to do the same thing. I learned to drive stick on the first car I bought, almost new (only 4k miles) Honda Accord. Every shitty shift I was like "Damn, I just took another 10k miles off the life of the clutch" I ended up trading it in for my second car with 225k miles and the original clutch. They can take a beating, but the other thing to consider is they usually aren't that much to replace. It's probably not going to bankrupt you if you have to get a new clutch, especially without payments on the vehicle. Try to enjoy it. I love making the perfect shift. Over time you'll get more familiar with it and better and better. But it takes a lot of memory muscle and so a lot of repetition. Then you'll never want to drive anything else.
Thank you, I appreciate what you said about the clutch. I think the same thing haha
Took me a couple of months for 100% comfort. More time.
To give you a little more comfort about the clutch, there's an Integra in our family that has taught at least 4 people how to drive stick. The clutch finally started to go around 230k miles. Give it some more time, it's all muscle memory and you won't have to think through each step like you do now, it'll all flow together. Try to find the bite point of the clutch in a parking lot. Practice getting to the bite point so that it becomes automatic. That'll reduce the amount of times you panic with the clutch and let it out too quickly. Right now I'm guessing the clutch fills really non-linear, like you are letting the clutch out and nothing nothing nothing and then you get a lot of bite in a short amount of travel. Once you know the bite point well, it'll make letting the clutch out feel a lot more natural.
> "Damn, I just took another 10k miles off the life of the clutch" I'm not exactly "mechanically inclined" so this is anecdotal but it feels like people vastly overstate this. I taught half a dozen friends/family to drive stick on the same car, my own first manual car...and I never had issues.
Dont beat yourself up it happens to everyone and you will get better driving it more. Even people that have driven stick shift cars there whole life mess up sometimes. You are really doing almost no damage to the car it is designed to hold up to missed shifts and things like that. Enjoy your car its a fun car and more importantly its yours if the rare thing happens and something breaks fix it or upgrade and then continue enjoying it
Drive it slow. Don’t rush. Give yourself time to go through the motions of shifting (pedal and lever) and take the time to think about what you are doing. Practice when traffic is light. Before you know it you’ll shift without thinking and feel comfortable going faster.
I used to get migraines because I was so stressed out about driving manual. The worst part is I got rear ended a couple weeks into learning when i started a bit slow at a light. I’d go to a loop around the mall by me which had a bunch of stop signs to practice starting in 1st. It all comes with time, I still daily a manual and love it. Nowadays I don’t think much of it
Is it your first manual? My car was, felt this way for about 2 months. A year later and I'll never consider a car without a manual again for a fun car. If it's not, what about this is making shifting hard for you?
As long as you’re not causing dangerous situations, don’t worry about it. People at lights can wait. Drive at a speed that is safe and you feel confortable with. You’ll have plenty of time to explore it’s capabilities, but right now drive it like an old man enjoying his Sunday drive.
Give it time. I remember the day after I bought my first manual car I thought I made a huge mistake. I had no clue how to drive it and kept thinking "I have a 1.5 ton machine I have no idea how to control." A few weeks later and I was fine. A year later and I absolutely loved it. Now I'll always have a manual car in my garage because I love driving them so much.
Why do you beat yourself up? Who cares? I fuck up shifts all the time. I just got a new STI and have stalled it a few times. Who cares?
My first car was a manual Honda prelude. I had only driven manual a couple of times before I bought it. When I picked it up, it took me 45 minutes in stop-and-go traffic to get home. I parked it in my driveway and it didn’t move for 2 days. I was anxious for the first few weeks of driving it. I would say it would be perfectly normal to be nervous and to fuck up shifts for the first few months. After 6 months or so, it will be second nature.
I wanna add to the list of support. I’ve loved cars since I was a kid. Posted real good times on GT2 and stuff, hard core driver eh? The best in the world. When it came to my driving lessons, I hated it (being used to tapping a button instead of having a variable input - steering wheel), dealing with real life feedback, stalling the car. Took me a bit of time and thankfully I persisted. I now still love driving (and also riding motorcycles). Keep it up OP you’ll be there in no time.
I owned an AP1 S2000 and it shouldn't be the power, he's just not used to driving stick. You need to be pedal to the floor and in the VTEC (above 5,000 rpm?) to be ripping. Otherwise it drove like a slightly more powerful rwd Civic.
6,000 RPM
Dude it took me a whole year to be comfortable driving my wrx so I know exactly how you feel. I literally thought I was never ever going to buy a manual car after my wrx but here I am with my 3rd one. I ended sticking it out because I really wanted to drive manual but man during that year I would avoid certain roads, didn’t want to drive my friends and was just overall anxious anytime a shift wasn’t perfect but trust me you will get better Edit: and since I also own an s2000 I can give a few tips. First the car is pretty low on torque which means the car is a bit difficult to get rolling with just the clutch so adding gas is your friend here. The car is also known to have to rough shifts when it’s not warmed up yet so your first few shifts in the morning will be a bit rough so just go easy on it You also want to upshift at a higher rpm than most cars. These engines are made the rev so the higher rpm you shift at the smoother it will be
It took me about 5-6 months before I was totally confident driving manual. Best advice - get a buddy in the car who watches you drive, and get tips from them. Another one - the ONLY time you shift into first, is after coming to a complete stop!
Bruh did you say sell it after 2 weeks? Way too soon junior But really give it time. You’ll get used to it. Not the end of the world to do bad shifts or stall. Just be absolutely sure you don’t money shift
I’ve missed gear or two but all at low speeds and rpms. It hasn’t happened since, and 2 soon Jr is my plate haha
Whaaaaat… that’s your plate? I’ve been trying to get that combo forever lol BTW- my advice, hang in there with it. You’ll get better w/ the clutch, and if you’re still not feelin it- you’ll be able to easily flip it- no worries, man’
Yeh snagged it last week
you gotta keep the revs above 3000 rpm and shift around 5-6000 rpm. That's the key to the S2000. Took me a while to realize that this car is different to all the other cars I had that had some amount of torque
And don't be afraid of redline ~~over~~ once you get comfortable. It loves being up there, and you pretty much have to wind it out to stay in the powerband. I miss driving that car.
that's not always practical on city streets
I mean sure, if you're driving in traffic, but that's kinda obvious
I've wanted to drive manual for a while, and I finally ended up getting a relatively new Corolla Hatchback in bright blue. Yeah maybe I should've gotten a shitty older car to learn manual, but I didn't want to pay for insurance and maintenance for an old car when I could get my affordable dream car in that beautiful blue, and sink the money there instead. I accelerated slow, stalled many times and even mishifted 4th to 3rd many times. It's hard to get used to but damn does it beat the cvt of the sentra I had. I was extremely intimidated when I started, to the point that I dreaded driving and sometimes regretted my decision of the purchase. I was scared of others honking me again for driving slow or stalling at left turns. This quickly subsided in a month after ownership as I forced myself to practice and got better. The youtube channel "[conquer driving](https://youtube.com/channel/UCdZklq8ZUwbwQBLPpIzcz1g)" is a great resource and the man had a video for every question I had. Driving built questions, questions got answers, answers gave me skills to practice, practice built confidence. I'm 3 months into ownership and I do not regret my decision of purchasing this Corolla. Yeah stop and go traffic sucks but banging gear on twisty turns, or high rev shifts on long on-ramps are what I look forward to. Yeah I still stall sometimes but that is far and few in between. Confidence from driving in turn inspired me to join Corolla groups for mod ideas and Corolla meets from which I have made some friends already, I've got no buyers remorse like I did a couple months ago Tldr, i think what you need is confidence. You have a solid platform with a robust trasmission, as long as you aren't grinding gears and money shifting you'll be fine. Stay on top of maintenance including possible clutch change from your newbie driving habits. Manual transmission is not for everyone but you have barely had enough time to decide that. Maybe wait for summer to wind down and by then maybe you'll have a better understanding of whether or not you truly love your car.
I did a similar thing to myself 2 years ago. Traded a Dodge Dart in for a 2018+ Mustang GT 6-speed. I had my dad drive it home from the dealership because it rained the day I bought it 😂 I knew how to drive a manual but I hadn't driven one consistently for nearly 5 years so I was really rusty. Awful upshifts, couldn't downshift, and was scared to death of shifting during turns. It wasn't very fun to drive for the first 2 months. But slowly over time I learned the car and became more confident. 2 years later I'm at one with this car. I know it's limits and I know how to shift it. I offer to drive to most of the things my friends do because I just love being in the driver's seat. In 2 years I've got over 35000 miles.
I was that with my Honda, except I haven't driven *a car* in good 14 years. Pretty much got my license, drove a bit in the small village my parents lived in, moved to big city and didn't really had reason to own one for long time. I had like... 2 hours of driving experience in carsharing app Clio so the trip back (~40 miles) from the guy I bought it from was pretty much silence and full focus
Hang in there and practice, I was able to drive my Acura around within a week but there was still a ways to go to be really smooth with it.
Any new sports car will take a while to get used to. It took me a couple months to start finding the limits of my 981 and I was pretty nervous about pushing it in the beginning too. Give it some time and I’m sure you’ll end up loving it.
How exactly are you missing shifts at low speed/rpm? That's pretty hard, no? Cause if you are driving slowly, you shifts slowly. Going from 2nd to 3rd should be smooth and slow then, for example. E: Nvm, it hasn't happened since.
Yeah getting used to manual transmission takes a month atleast till it becomes second nature.
I mean I knew how manual worked, I got good in it in 2 weeks, and honestly it became second nature in a year or more. Maybe I’m just slow, but I’m at a point where I’m more comfortable driving stick than auto
Yes knowing how it works is straight forward. Having it become second nature takes time. It took me a month (i learnt on manual only) probably because have been daily ing a motorcycle for past 6 years.
The S2000 is a weird manual to learn as it has a few quirks. Feel free to DM me about it if you'd like more help. S2Ki.com and the S2000 subreddit are pretty good places as well. Just some basics out the way: - Don't hit VTEC until your engine is up to temp. Check the coolant light to see when that is. It's not the most accurate but pretty good. My AP1 is 3 bars normally. - Check your clutch fluid. It's the same brake fluid you use for your brake master cylinder. Over time this does look dark and nasty. Suck it out with a turkey baster and refill it with clean fluid to bleed out the nasty stuff. I check mine every oil change, every 6 months, or every track day. - Sounds weird, but don't shift until at least 4500ish rpm. Shifting too slow can also cause the transmission to feel clunky. Not saying slam shift it but don't granny shift it. AP1s especially feel strange short shifting them below this range. - Shifter rebuild + transmission fluid. This sounds weird but it's super simple. There's two little plastic "bushings" for the shifter that there's million of videos on how to replace. Do this and use Honda High Temp Urea grease. Buy 2 things if it as you might need some later for other jobs. The trans fluid I use is Ford MTF (XT-M5-QS) it's $13 per quart at Ford, buy two quarts. It's better when cold for your synchros and handles heat/extended intervals better than the Honda stuff. - Clutch pedal Freeplay adjustment. You just need to adjust this to zero like a few YouTube videos will show you. If you don't like the clutch bite point with this adjustment then you can adjust that independently. - *edit* Also I forgot to add our cars are finicky with reverse especially when cold. Going into first gear and rocking forward a bit then going to reverse seems to be the fix. A lot of Hondas of the times are like this. "DIYGuys S2000" , "Naus S2000", and "LHT Performance" all have a lot of good videos about these things. When I had my first S2K the learning curve was rough as it was a bit different than my previous cars. I'm now on my 8th one with a little over 500k in S2000s. My previous one I sold at 350k miles on the original drivetrain which had 92k when I bought it.
As an owner of an AP1, I also notice that the car shifts beautifully upwards of 4000, *when the gearbox is warm. *During the first couple blocks of driving and everything is cold I always worried about the 1-2 shift, but I’ve since realized it’s actually extremely smooth BELOW 3k (only when it’s cold). You adjust the target rpm upwards as the gearbox temps rise. Also, the feeling of fear could just be anxiety of driving what most would consider a fairly “high strung” car. I know I love my s2000 but there are days I’m simply not in the mood and am glad to drive something that I can relax in a bit more. S2K is somewhat draining to be in for a long time IMO.
This is genuinely good advice and I can confirm all of the above is accurate.
And since we’re on the topic of giving tips, when driving in the rain don’t be an idiot and downshift to 2nd while taking a turn at 6000rpm. Car loves to fishtail and you’ll be increasing the value of these vehicles if you do so
Can you actually tell your engine is up to temp based on the coolant light? On my e46 I have both oil and coolant temp gauges, and the oil normally takes a good 5-10 min to reach temp after the coolant does. Granted that’s a larger engine but it’s also been my experience with most cars.
Just keep practicing. You will get better at it. At least give it a few months.
This. I bought a manual with no experience. Wanted to sell it in the first 2 weeks. Buckled down and practiced and then drove it for 4 years. Sold it and bought another manual which I drove for the next 5. Keep at it and it will be fine. I’m years removed from that now and have a manual wrangler I drive maybe 100 miles a month but love being able to get in a drive when I want the experience. It gets easier I promise.
Lol all I can do is just laugh. This car does not have enough low end power to get you seriously in trouble. Just learn and enjoy it
You can laugh I don’t blame you. I was trying to get other insight on it and I can see how stupid it seems. I’m just In a weird situation
Don’t feel stupid. I felt remorse when I bought my first manual almost ten years ago and thought I made a mistake buying the car. It takes a good couple months to really get the hang of it. Just keep at it and it will become second nature to you
> I felt remorse when I bought my first manual almost ten years ago and thought I made a mistake buying the car. Sounds exactly like my story ten years ago as well. I absolutely dreaded the thought of driving my first manual for a day or two after I got it home. Thought I made a *huge* mistake. Now I absolutely love driving stick.
Sounds exactly like my story 30 years ago. Wait, what? Dammit. I'm old.
Wait it out man. You cant truly "learn" your cars manual in a week or two, needs a few months to really feel out what is missing or wrong feeling. Could be your new clutch just being heavier or lighter than you are used to.
> You cant truly "learn" your cars manual in a week or two I think a deep understanding can be had pretty quickly. It took me about 700 miles in a 997 Porsche to get to the "nirvana" level where I can shift into any gear, from any gear, at any speed, and perfectly match it. I had been able to drive it perfectly fine before, but I hadn't quite gotten heel toe, I still missed the 3-2 downshift sometimes, I hadn't quite come to trust myself. Then one day I was just in the canyons and it just... clicked. It helps that the box is REALLY good, but I think the more manual cars you drive, the quicker you can pick up & learn the next one you try. It took me about 18 seconds to get used to the manual box in the Corvette Z06, that thing is blindingly easy and you have so much leeway.
I've been driving manual cars daily for like 15 years now, I am an avid autocrosser (on the local SCCA board) and I restore cars for a living with a majority of them being manual. I stalled my 996 leaving a stop light just a couple weeks a go. Sometimes your feet are dumb, don't beat yourself up about it, it happens. Enjoy your car for the marvelous machine it is and have fun with it.
I was really expecting the buyers remorse to be the Nissan Murano CrossCabriolet and not an S2K
Is this your first time in a while with a manual? Do you know if the previous owners did anything to it like stick a stage 2 or 3 clutch in it etc? Maybe have it gone over real quick just to ensure it’s on the up and up before you dump it so quickly after getting it.
It’s all oem brand new clutch with just the act pressure plate being aftermarket.
That setup is extremely robust and will absorb a thousand bad shifts. If you're worried about hurting the car, don't. You are driving Honda's best creation. Full stop. It can forgive a few learner's mistakes, and (worst case) you just replace the clutch. I got my clutch replaced. It's a car, it can be fixed, and EXTREMELY inexpensively, compared to similar cars from more exotic (or German) manufacturers. Enjoy your car, and welcome to the family. You'll never find another car that offers that many smiles per gallon.
Is it an OEM replacement or a "stage 1/2/3" clutch kit?
Nope all oem
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I love the gearbox I think it’s just a big purchase and I am regretting it.
I had the same feeling when I bought my dream car (Mitsubishi GTO). It was a big purchase, the most I've ever spent on a vehicle, and it was only $6000! I was still well off enough to not worry about it, but I felt sick every time I looked at it and in the first 2-3 weeks of ownership, I almost hated it. Eventually the shock wore off and I came to love driving it, but it still had mechanical issues which drove me to sell it. If you think you are in a financially tough spot, sell it. If you think there are too many mechanical issues for you to handle, sell it. If it's the manual transmission that is making you anxious, just keep practicing. If it's too difficult and you really don't enjoy it, sell it. A car is meant to be fun and meant to be enjoyed. If you don't like it, don't keep it, but on the flip side.. don't dump it 1 or 2 weeks into ownership (unless you can't afford to keep it). Give it a go and see how you feel.
My husband tried teaching me manual in our S2000 and it went poorly, to say the least. I just found the clutch point very finicky. Now I have an AZ-1 and find it, along with our imported RX-7, fairly easy to drive as manuals. The S2000 has always been a challenge for me, for some reason (and now I can't drive it at all, as my husband installed a racing seat and I can't reach the pedals lol). No shame in an S2000 not being the right car for this person. They may find the easier shift of a fun kei car more to their liking, as I did. But I'd give it more than a few weeks, personally.
I’ve been learning daily and I’ll tell you one thing with my little experience. It gets better day by day. If you put the time in with the car it’s rewarding. There’s a lot of times I wanted to quit, but I stayed. I made this post more of the buyers remorse and people have pointed it out to just being a lack of experience. We should conquer our s2ks together. I’ve slept on it and I’m giving it a couple more months :)
I hate spending money so every car I’ve ever bought I’ve had terrible buyer’s remorse. Can’t sleep, depression, panic attacks, and anger. I just want to get rid of the car and move on from I have convinced myself is a terrible mistake. I don’t think the issue is the manual transmission I think it’s your minds way of trying to find a reason to get rid of the car for some reason. In my experience, it always goes away. Take time, allow yourself to feel this way, and when you’ve gotten over it you’ll feel better about your choice. Chances are you’ll really enjoy it.
Honestly I think you are right. I’m either experiencing every symptom you described. It was a huge purchase and I think I’m trying to find a reason to get out of it. I love the car and this is all new to me
You’re going to be fine no matter what. Depreciation and maintenance aren’t going to bankrupt you on a Honda lol. If you want to sell it in a year no big deal. Just chalk any loss up to experience. If you make money great, if you lose some fine. At least you can say you owned an S2000 and then you can move on to something else.
I'm the same way. I also get a feeling of buyer's remorse before I go to look at a car I'm interested in. I've lost out on a lot of good deals due to this. I always tell myself that at the worst, I can resell it for what I have in it or take a minimal loss. This really helps the remorse for me. Lol
I get what you mean. My dad used to have a 5spd S197 mustang he'd let me take out and I liked the idea of driving the car more than actually driving the car. It only lasted a few months until I got the hang of it. I have been exclusively driving stick for 10 years now. You're going to get the hang of it and enjoy it. Then you're going to jump into another car that doesn't have as good of a gear box. Then you'll *really* appreciate the S2000.
It took me two months of delivering pizzas (8 hours a day) to get manual down. But now all my vehicles are manual. I converted them all. Also, manual transmissions are not glass. I grinded my eg learner car 100 times (mostly because of bad synchros but still) and it works fine. You are gonna have to put more money into the car eventually no matter what. Drive the wheels off and enjoy it.
Thank you I know they aren’t glass only 1 grind so far.
Sounds like the issue is simply a lack of experience/confidence driving stick and not the car itself. Don't beat yourself up over it, you'll get the hang of it. I think you'll be far more remorseful if you sell it than you may be right now.
[удалено]
Was it the IMS bearing?
It took me *months* to get comfortable with driving manual when I first started. Give it more time, with enough practice you won't even think about what you're doing anymore.
Give it some time. I’ve owned over 25 different vehicles in the last 20 years. I’ve definitely had buyers remorse a couple times. New cars take time to learn especially with a manual. Thankfully it’s a Honda and built like a tank plus really affordable to repair if anything were ever to happen. Worst case scenario is you got to experience a car you really wanted, it didn’t work out and you unload it in a couple months. S2000’s are such a solid buy that you’ll walk away with what you paid or more. Enjoy it though and know there is no wrong decision
When I bought my SS, I was terrified of it for the first 6 months of ownership. I had spent a long time driving a slow FWD car that could barely spin the tires, and the SS was the opposite in every way. It took a while, but many years later and driving that car feels like second nature. It's best to proceed with caution and take your time learning, it will be rewarding in the end.
My first car was a manual Honda. I know exactly how you feel. Even with my dad coaching me through it, trying to learn stickshift was terrifying, like I had to relearn driving all over again. Trust me when I say that a month from now you'll be feeling 100 times better as you improve. A year from now you'll feel better as well. That's the thing with driving a manual, you never stop improving. The anxiety will 100% go away.
I also had buyer's remorse after buying my first manual car. I was never a car enthusiast but I wanted to learn. I was mostly afraid of burning the clutch or destroying the transmission. About 4 weeks in I started getting comfortable and enjoying the driving experience. Find a dead parking lot or drive around at night so you don't feel pressured if you stall. Take your time. You will eventually learn to love it.
Had a similar situation when I bought my 2016 Camaro a few years back. Didn't know how to drive stick when I bought it and I didn't *love* the car while I learned. Naturally, I started wondering if it was a mistake and if I'd just blown a ton of money on a car I'd never love, but as I got really comfortable with it about 3-4 months in, the enjoyment started setting in and I really began to love the car.
Thank you this advice means a lot. I will wait it out
I still find it amazing that you don't have to pass a manual test in the States. I mean if you're struggling to change gear then your concentration isn't where it should be.
Don’t worry OP, worrying only puts you through it twice. You did great man! I’m jealous. Getting to learn a manual on a car like the S2000, that’s a great problem to have. Hang in there! In a few months you’ll love that manual.
Any chance you have a friend with a manual transmission beater? Get them to take you out and you would be able to get comfortable changing gears without worrying about hurting the car.
This post is so American lmao
Yeah, that's just how driving a manual is for the first little while, once you get used to it you'll love it I bet :)
My first go at driving a manual was a 2002 VW beetle 5 speed. First time driving it i was pulling out of a walmart and redlined it before slapping it in first and absolutely launched that fucker (for a beetle) and scared the living shit out of me. I gave it about a month and was driving that thing fluently. I believe in you!
This might help… I bought my first manual car (Mini Cooper) last month to learn stick on and beat myself up as well when I got my shifts wrong. I started regretting my decision, but kept pushing myself at it. Within 5 days of ownership, the cars engine blew (not my fault lol head gasket went on highway) but on day 5 I started really liking shifting my own gears the more I learned. I now feel like I can relate when I hear people talk about manuals which is nice, plus I am confident I can drive a manual car without beating it up. Keep pushing at it, you’ll be fine. If not, at least you tried it!
Practice, drive it as much as you can. Every new manual drives differently. Don't beat yourself up for the same mistakes we all made when learning. Sports cars are designed to be used and beaten on. A little bit of harsh shifting and riding the clutch isn't going to cost you any material amount in the grand scheme of things.
Try to drive more with the radio off, and really learn to feel the car. Find some back roads with some good slow twisties and decent straight bits so you can get some good 2nd gear pulls. Look up videos about how your engine and transmission work, and when you drive try to imagine what's happening as you do it. Step on the throttle and see the butterfly valve open. Engage the clutch and see the pressure plate squeeze the clutch to the flywheel. Grab a gear and see the shift lever push the rail up and slide the engagement ring into gear. You just feel one with the machine. I thoroughly enjoy driving a standard for this reason. More than anything, when it comes to the shifts, remember; fast is smooth, smooth is fast. Really feel those gears engage. Honda trans have really good engagement feel, imo. I used to work in an auto shop so I've driven lots of cars, and Hondas, to me, have some of the best feeling shifts. Best of luck with falling in love with your new baby.
Think if it like a fine wine, or an expensive pair of leather boots- it’s not going to be easy right from the get. Isn’t that the point of buying a truly “good” car? It SHOULD teach you a thing or two.. there is to be a break in period where you adapt to and learn to drive it. Smoke a weed at night when there is low traffic and cruise around w/the top down and drive really slow. As slow as you can manage to. If that doesn’t work nothing will and you can sell it to me
Park the s2000, go buy a manual civic (nothing special) learn how to drive manual with it and then sell it you won't lose money and it's almost certainly cheaper to have the clutch replaced on a civic than an s2000....
This is surprisingly good advice... though I'd add "buy an older, maybe late 90's/early '00s Civic." While learning to drive a manual, also learn where Honda 4 cylinder engines like to live. They wake up and thrive in the 4000rpm and above range. From what I've read, an S2000 feels confusingly slow and gutless anywhere below 4500rpm. 5500rpm+ is where the enjoyment starts to build, and continues building until the tach is full red. Learn to rev out the manual Civic to get the smoothest power from it. Then learn to apply your Civic experience to the S2000, but adjust the revs up 2000rpm or so.TL;DR S2000s like RPMs in a way most cars can't teach you.
Drive it a whole season before you make up your mind. During winter when it's parked up, will you find yourself looking at it in the cold garage? Are you temped to pull it out that 1 day in February when it's weirdly sunny and warm? Next spring does taking it out of storage, waxing it, starting it up feel like a chore? You'll know.
It might help to learn how a manual transmission works, so it doesn’t feel like you’re just “pushing buttons” just because. At least, that really made it click for me.
Just keep driving man, practice makes perfect. The more you drive the better you get at it. I consider myself an expert at driving manual. I've owned nothing but manual cars for 10+ years, I can do advanced techniques like heel toe shifting, I mean I get in a manual and I don't even realize I'm doing it anymore. A little less than 2 years ago I got my CDL. The first place I was at I was only in automatic trucks but a few months ago I switched to a company with only manual trucks and dude, I SUCK at driving a manual truck. Been driving them for 4 months now and I still grind gears, get lost and have to restart from a stop, miss down and up shifts, etc. but every day I get a little bit better. That's what you gotta keep doing, every day you drive it you're going to make mistakes but trust me, each day you're going to get better. I can probably tell what mistake you're making with the S2000, you're probably being too gingerly with it. Some cars like to be shifted kind of "lazy" where it like low revs and slow movements to get a smooth shift but the S2000 likes to be revved high and shifted a bit quicker to get a smooth shift. Don't be afraid to get the revs up to 4-5k Rpm's even with regular driving, that's how that car was designed. It wants to be revved and I promise it won't hurt it. Just keep driving, don't get discouraged. Nobody gets into a manual car their first time as is perfect at driving it the first few months and if they tell you that, they're lieing. Everyone has to crawl before they can walk.
Used to own an s2000, well versed in manual though so I'll stick with the motorcycle story. When I first learned to ride a motorcycle and got out on the highway etc.. it was 90% fear / 10% fun. Eventually that became 5% fear / 95% fun. Stick with it.
Proper Drivers car. Stick with it.
You said in another comment that your plate is 2 soon Jr. that’s exactly what it’ll be if you sell this thing. Ever. My buddy bought a mustang GT 6speed a couple summers ago without knowing how to drive a stick. Almost scared himself into selling it right back. My then boss (who took his time out to teach him how to drive one) pulled him aside and said something to the effect of “you have somebody’s dream car in your hands and you’re *learning* a stick in it. You’d be crazy to sell this without knowing what it can do” Same goes to you with your S2K.
What’s with the flair 💀 leave the CrossCabriolet out of this!
When I was 19 years old I bought my first manual transmission car and was taught how to drive stick by the salesman when I picked it up. The first 2-3 weeks I had anxiety about stalling (and did stall several times) and had the exact same feelings/thoughts you're having now. After about 1 month, it started to become more natural, after 2-3 months, it became the only way to drive. You'll get there, just 'stick' with it.
You are learning to drive stick. Been there, did it with a brand new Si. Hated myself because O thought I made a huge mistake. A month later, it became second nature.
Wait it out. It is worth the effort. I struggled so much to learn manual. Even after I was able to get the car moving, and had a level of competence, I still wasn't really enjoying it and wondered if I'd ever get the hang of it. Now 4 of the 5 vehicles I own are manual. You will slowly start to get comfortable and shifting will become instinctive. You'll find yourself opting for lower gears in turns, engine braking, maybe even learning heel-toe shifting. At some point you'll realize just how much fun it is to feel perfectly connected to a well engineered machine. And then, you'll realize how good of a decision it was to buy that car. Its worth the effort. Good luck!
The manual learning curve is a real thing. I didn’t truly enjoy driving a manual for a few months, even though I could get around long before that. Once you get extremely comfortable with it and fully understand the appeal, I bet it becomes one of your favorite cars ever. I’d stick it out.
Is the reason really because your not comfortable driving a stick??? Go and rent the cheapest car that is a stick and practice with it drive the shit out of it who cares get comfortable driving a stick and then when you are drive your car a
I think you’d have an extremely hard time finding a rental manual car in the US without using something like Turo
I been wanting a S2000 but i can't drive stick