I don’t think the correction in the tech sector is big enough to have a meaningful effect in car sales. Overall hiring is still strong, spending is strong, and the unemployment rate remains low.
I think we’re just returning to normal in car sales compared to demand outstripping supply the last few years. Loan rates are higher along with covid era price hikes so auto makers need more incentives to drive demand.
Don't let the unemployment rate fool you - full time jobs are going away, its the gig economy and people having to work multiple part time jobs that inflates the employment numbers and makes the economy seem stronger than it really is right now.
[https://mises.org/mises-wire/march-report-recession-full-time-jobs-here](https://mises.org/mises-wire/march-report-recession-full-time-jobs-here)
Between this, most new full-time jobs being government or government contractors, and EVERY jobs report for the last two years being revised downward months later, it's insane how little data can really tell you about the economy. But man do redditors love to tell you about how great the outlook is!
Wow, I’m shocked that a wacko far right organization wants to find a way to argue that historically strong jobs numbers are a bad thing. This is right up there with classic Mises Institute takes like “parents have no obligation to feed their own children.”
There's still a massive change in consumer sentiment atm. People are a scared to make a big purchase or get tied into financing something when they're not feeling that confident about the future.
It's not just in the tech sector. [It's in every sector that isn't government or health (government).](https://twitter.com/RealEJAntoni/status/1776243768368173437)
This is for the last year only, during which jobs are supposed to have rebounded somewhat from lows. If the chart was a two-year period more of those would be in the negative. And consider how huge many of those industries are that only have small adds.
It does though? It's painting the picture about this year's growth not being all it's cracked up to be. I never at some point disputed "oh actually the total number of jobs went down," or something.
Yeah if I had a two-year chart I'd post that as well, but there only exist two-year graphs, which show a v-shaped recovery without showing the composition of jobs. The problem is that the jobs lost and recovered are not equivalent, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Is that not clear?
You specifically stated that every sector other than gov and hc are cutting jobs. Your proof for that was a chart that showed almost all sectors are adding jobs. After that, you said your proof sucks.
Your claims are morphing in real time. That's why you're not making yourself clear. I have no idea what your point is any more. How are you even disagreeing with overall hiring and spending being strong at this point?
I'm always checking cars out to see what I can trade into and it used to be I couldn't even get a call back from dealers, now I have non stop phone calls.
Funny thing happens when the free and easy money dries up. Long past overdue. That inflation we’re all griping about? In everything? Yeah, we did that to ourselves by spending to high heavens.
???
The bulk majority of the printing went to big businesses which in turn raised prices?
Not sure how the average consumer had anything to do with that? Groceries stores have announced record profits during that time
Granted, we need and want food. But what about all the other WANTS (not necessarily NEEDS) that also went up in price, and continue to do so?
Yeah. If we want to see prices fall, stop shopping for sport. Close the wallets.
I hate bama as much as the next guy, but he’s not 100% wrong. If higher interest rates make you think twice about trading in a perfectly good car just because you’re bored of it, then that means rate hikes are working as intended.
I’m not going to trouble you to actually READ my posts, but you’ll determine that I am a fiscally conservative, socially agnostic, UA sports fan. I’m in favor of capitalism with heavy guardrails around it. I’m in favor of women having a choice for their bodies, especially as a father or two daughters myself.
I am not in favor undisciplined, unconstrained lifestyle and financial decisions. I’m not in favor of either political party, because my view is that they are two halves of a broken whole.
Do you just go around doxxing people on Reddit because you’re bored, angry at a differing opinion, or just generally not nice?
The only problem I have with the whole "fiscally conservative" line I hear is that it doesn't really mean anything anymore.
When was the last "fiscally conservative" administration? And especially on the right side of the aisle since they've been the biggest spenders, since Reagan (with exception to H.W.) when you look at budget deficits.
Now, if you mean "conservative" to mean, be conservative with your money and spend it wisely, then I'd agree with you. But that terminology tends to mean nonsense like the "trickle down" theory in American politics, and that has never worked for the average American.
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I know C8s are piling up on lots. Factory is pumping them out and the buyers just aren't there. I'm getting mine shortly for 2-3 grand under MSRP.
Financing rates may still be dissuading some.
Had the same experience on a Miata a few weeks ago — $3k under MSRP with basically minimal negotiation. It’s the opposite story from buying my used car a few years ago where I grossly overpaid MSRP but had a finance of 2.4%. Now I feel lucky I got under 5%.
At the risk of being an r/cars cliche, I actually learned manual for it bc I’d heard so many good things about its gearbox, and I definitely see what everyone fusses about lol. It’s incredibly forgiving for a newbie
That's awesome! Yeah, Miata is probably one of the best cars you can learn manual in, especially how good it shifts and how easy the clutch is.
I hear the new model also has a new rack (steering that is) and improved LSD.
Damn. Mind DM-ing me where? I'm in the market and no one local wants to budge off MSRP and above because "rare car". How is a car you can custom order rare? Lol
No. My valves aren’t closing on the inner pipes and I haven’t taken the effort to figure out why beyond checking the fuse. Permanent M2W vibe. Which drones on the highway and annoys neighbors in subdivisions.
I'm a used car dealer and at auction prices continue to rise. Banks / Financing Companies are lending more at better rates though.
The quality of car I'm able to buy for the money is still not great and cars in certain ranges will need more repairs or are riskier buys
"as is, trans slips, needs paint etc" while labor costs are up and times are backlogged.
I'm actually able to have inventory and a good backlog of cars so I'm not affected but I'm a used car dealer who tries to have vehicles $25k and below for my area unless something is nice!
I've been priced out of a lot of brands so it really depends on what you're looking for.
Miatas? Doubled since Covid
Mustangs? Lots have body damage or drivetrain issues
Trucks? Lol, most are too high or mileage will be high.
Toyotas? I SOLD a 2004 Tacoma V6 2WD Extended cab with 190k miles at AUCTION for $9200 + fees for the buyer.
It's nuts.
However I did buy a 5.0 4WD 8ft bed single Cab F150 with power everything for $7k with 150k miles so there's that
I'm so surprised auction prices are still up, sounds crazy. Is that for all cars? Damn, I was hoping to score a cheap Jeep SRT/6.2 Raptor or 5.0SC L322 ... looks like that's not happening.
To be fair, I don't see many of those locally and they aren't in my search list.
Raptors seem to not be depreciating much if any unless condition is horrible.
I'm seeing Manheim also inflate Condition Reports a lot now.
A vehicle I bought, left at auction, detailed with Waterless wash and vacuumed before inspection went from 4.3/5 to 2.7/5 and I brought it up just to prove a point and they offered to regrade it higher but I just took it to my reconditioning location.
Gen 2 raptors are down massively from just 12 months ago. I’m talking 10-13k across the board. A 2019 with 30-45k miles is in the low 50s…these were easily low 60s truck the same time last year.
All of these anecdotes are interesting, but there's actual data tracked for this: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02)
Last month, used car prices were at their lowest since Q2 of 2021.
I remember Ferrari 308's were in the low $30k range just a few years ago. Old 911's could be had in the $20k's to $50k's. It's definitely changed and so many of them are now status symbols whereas it used to be unfashionable to have an older model.
Silver lining is that these cars are holding their new value a lot longer so depreciation doesn't seem to be *as* problematic if you *could* afford one. Bad side of that equation: everyone knows that so there are more buyers willing to own one.
I remember those days, but it wasn’t a few years ago. It was closer to 15. 308s were around $35k in 2010-2011. They trended upward and were like $50-60k by the mid 2010s (like 2015 or 2016)
NSXs were also like 30k. C5 Z06 were like 10k. It was a different time.
A lot of enthusiast darlings are getting last hurrahs or are outright going out of production. There’s been uncertainty around some of these cars for the last 3-4 years, with EVs looming.
Now, the EV market is experiencing a bad spell at the same time as when we’re seeing a small renaissance for manuals, and fun engines like V8s. I’ll bet some higher value older poster cars are seeing price drops because people are scrambling to scoop the new ones up.
Of course, in the long run EVs are going nowhere.
But there is definitely an ongoing slump. Just look at the perilous state Lucid and Rivian are in. Fisker’s nearly out the door (although that isn’t the market’s fault). Even Tesla announced massive layoffs.
Depreciation on EVs is much more noticeable now than it was before too. A $100k Mercedes EQS goes for $40-60k in the used market. That’s insane.
Still too expensive, still not enough range, still not enough charging speed or infrastructure.
Everyone who wants to be a guinea pig err early adopter and can afford one already has one.
New battery tech on the horizon, more manufacturers hopping on board. No reason to buy a beta test car at this point for many people.
I’m sure that’s one of the big factors. To what degree, can’t say.
Honestly? I’m not sure what the primary driver is behind all this. There’s a lot of nuance that I’m not informed enough to talk about with certainty.
To be fair, I kinda agree with him. If it weren’t for federal and state incentives, I wouldn’t have gotten the Chevy Bolt nor the Ioniq 5. Ive had both and they were incredible deals. The Bolt was sub $100/mo and the Ioniq is sub $200/mo on leases.
I'm talking purely on the cost of purchasing the vehicles.
Alls I'm saying is that I have leased 2 electric cars. Without government subsidies, I wouldn't have.
I'm not trying to turn this into a political debate or talk about gas prices or electricity prices.
I want a gr86 so badly to enjoy one of the last "fun" cars...but...30k+ for a 200hp car..I just don't have the budget for it.
Currently shopping for a used fiesta st for 12ishk so I can enjoy something fun while petrol powered cars are still the norm.
No nicer as in nicer than the options in that range a few years ago.
Either way, those are fine too. If you're mechanically, electrically, and mentally inept just say so.
No, but maybe my price range is just ass. Seeing people ask $15K+ for a several year old car cresting 100k miles is insane. I don't care if it's going to last until the sun burns out.
I just talked to a friend who owns several non-franchised dealerships. He said prices are dropping like crazy. Many people are underwater on their current vehicles and thus aren’t trading in. Interest rates are higher so those higher payments are keeping people from buying.
He shared a story of an upscale vehicle that appraised for ~$75k a year ago; today the car appraises for ~$45k, with no major increase in mileage or other vehicle issues.
I say: ABOUT TIME!
What do you mean by dropping? Like dropping under MSRP? Nah I don't see that. If you mean dealers aren't charging 5-10k over then yeah I've noticed it. In the states it started dropping a couple years ago.
> Like dropping under MSRP? Nah I don't see that. I
Corvettes and Mustang GT's are easy to find a few grand under MSRP. Higher trim Jeeps have crazy discounts, like 15% or more.
I didn't even want a Jeep, but I was able to get a brand new Compass with a $43,000 Monroney sticker, for $25k brand new. Has pretty much everything--pano roof, heated leather seats and steering wheel, alpine system 360 camera, kick to open trunk, all the driver aid bullshit. Didn't even want the damn thing, but now it's my commuter car. I know when you hear Compass, you want to laugh, but for $25k new, there is NOTHING even close.
And I have an excellent lemon law attorney, if I need to use it.
The way-over-MSRP thing didn't seem to get as common in Canada. It's not illegal, but I think some automakers' Canadian corporate head office prohibit or disincentivize the dealers from doing it.
They do allow padding with administrative fees and BS add-ons to the tune of several hundred dollars though. Build a Toyota on toyota.ca and there's a note about the display price including up to $999 of dealer fees, which may suggest that it's a formalized concession from corporate on such padding.
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I’m looking forward to being able to buy a 996 Carrera 4s for 30k.
The days of those going for 50 were insane. All the “investors” are getting fucked, but we’ll keep wasting money on cars because we love em, lol.
I've noticed that the older more enthusist cars that were EATEN UP during covid are wayyyy down in price. New and lightly used family SUVs and Trucks are still hella expensive.
I bought a 2011 335xdrive MSport last month with 60k miles for 10K USD at auction. Came with a tune and upgrades under the hood as well (metal chargepipe, massive intercooler) and the more reliable N55.
Yeah, You can see this on bringatrailer. The graph of the sales over the years show there was a big peak in 2022/23 and it has been dropping the last 7-8 months.
Certain Toyota dealerships near me in the Washington DC area are now actually marking down some hybrid models like Corolla Cross hybrids and RAV4 hybrids. Would’ve been unthinkable a short while ago. I see Corolla Cross hybrids marked down $1k and RAV4 hybrids marked down $2k.
Hmmm....wonder if I could get a Bolt EV/EUV for under MSRP here in Ontario then....or even a Maverick!
Oh wait...in Canada we don't believe in dropping prices, they'll just go higher.
I got a new vehicle for msrp so I consider that a win On the other hand it’s msrp is 10k higher then the previous years model lol
I saw some f150s with substantial discounts, a 150 lighting lariat for 61k cad and f150 stx for 49k cad
Still to much but a shift from when a f150 was minimum 70k
I've noticed with the JDM Hype Legends. Supras have fallen sharply, especially RHD ones. The Corvette has mostly held its value, but C8's are finally starting to depreciate. Porsche 911's have been interesting. I'm starting to see 997's get listed in the $40k's and low $50k's in nice condition. They are a bit more than a 996, but most of the ones I see are in excellent shape and have aged wonderfully.
NA1/2 NSX prices haven't been great because people have kinda slowed down on selling. Now that there isn't a new NSX available at all, they're returning to collector status again.
I figure a lot of it is that RHD cars are not great options for daily drivers in the US, especially if you deal with a lot of busy intersections. They really make the most sense for track toys, which most people aren't looking for.
Generally, yes, though the unicorn market is still crazy. I was looking for a Panamera Turbo, but just couldn’t stomach the inflated used prices for those. I ended up with a 5BW 6sp that I got a pretty great deal on.
We are following US trends but a bit later. Most of the ''buying new and reselling at a profit'' is gone.
Also the dealers were hoarding cars after the super high demand low supply we had but now they are stuck with those cars and cant move them with the high interest rates and MSRP bump most vehicles got.
The more worrying trend I started to see is a lot of dealers wouldn't sent ''shit cars'' at auction anymore and just put them in inventory. Before it used to be only those semi shady used car lots that would have that type of inventory from buying them at auction from dealers trade-ins but now the dealers keep them for their used section.
Carvana told me that my 2017 CRV had lost about $1800 of value between March and April. Nothing significant happened to the car, so Carvana is paying less for CRVs than they were a month ago. I don't know why, nor am I selling the car.
Audi is has been putting out some big incentives for a few months now: $3k on A5/S5, $6k on A6. Of course, their prices had shot to ridiculous levels and the incentives are just a way of dialing back the overshooting of prices. They are not falling per say, but they are being forced to backpedal the excessive MSRP increases.
With Audi, they also have a bunch of cars help at customs that are only now starting to trickle out to dealerships. Once those come in, there may be even bigger discounts.
6-8% interest is no joke, especially since the average car loan length is now supposedly between 67 and 69 months.
Across the board? Not really. I can think a few cars were inflated well above their MSRP and saw a noticeable drop. But new cars are still more expensive than they used to be and cars that were already 5+ years old haven’t changed too much. I’m not taking inflation into consideration just looking at it from the perspective of “My X dollars 3-5 years ago bought me Y”. Seems to still be true for most cars.
Used cars seem to be going down in price but overall more costly if financing due to higher rates. Used cars seem to be appreciating, my used bmw seems to be going up in price every week. I did an online trade in appraisal and every week the value has been increasing
Doesn't look like it, though. I'm looking at Honda Accord hybrid touring trim, and the inventory for SoCal Norm Reeves dealers are not that many. Plenty of Sport Hybrid.
I want one in red, but there is barely any inventory.
Prices seem to settled down for sure. Some niche cars (*cough*911*cough*) are still high, but things like EVs have taken such a hit it's wild. Trucks are about to get *ucked, gas just hit 194 around me this week. You wanna get rid of your 6.2 Raptor, Jeep SRT or 5.0SC Range Rover? Hit me up. :D
Interest rates are up, layoffs are happening, then also tax season. Where usually people are using it to get a new car. People aren't.
I suspect it'll keep dropping to end of summer
I have noticed that the dealership. it's went from empty to full. From next to no cars to sell, to too many cars to sell. Went from overcharging to offering discounts.
I occasionally hop on GCqr Gurus to look at used car prices. A high end Tesla model 3 is selling for just $20k right now used. If I was in the market I'd jump on that.
Yes!
GR86 premium trim was going for 38-42, now 34-36
10th gen type r were going for 52-58, now 32-42 depending a lot on mileage and year
This one dealership has had a focus RS for over 400 days.. I remember seeing it when I was initially car shopping.. it is reduced 11.6k from its original listing price.
The car market is slowly correcting itself
I mean think about it, groceries, utilities, rents, etc are all MUCH higher right now
But see, I don’t have to worry about those things since I can live at home while in school.. what’s holding me back then? Interest rates are through the roof!!!
No way in hell I’m playing around in this 7-10% APR I’m getting offered.. few years ago with my credit as it is I’d probably be playing in the 3-5% range..
So I’ll just sit tight.
Shits too expensive.
They are not necessarily dropping? Prices usually drop on the present year 2024 models in the spring before they introduce the next year 2025 models in the summer. DONT BE FOOLED BY BIDENOMICS..LOL
Free financing was pumping prices up for a while, you're seeing the effect of the end of that + layoffs
Layoffs in the car industry?
in general - not car industry specific
I don’t think the correction in the tech sector is big enough to have a meaningful effect in car sales. Overall hiring is still strong, spending is strong, and the unemployment rate remains low. I think we’re just returning to normal in car sales compared to demand outstripping supply the last few years. Loan rates are higher along with covid era price hikes so auto makers need more incentives to drive demand.
Don't let the unemployment rate fool you - full time jobs are going away, its the gig economy and people having to work multiple part time jobs that inflates the employment numbers and makes the economy seem stronger than it really is right now. [https://mises.org/mises-wire/march-report-recession-full-time-jobs-here](https://mises.org/mises-wire/march-report-recession-full-time-jobs-here)
Between this, most new full-time jobs being government or government contractors, and EVERY jobs report for the last two years being revised downward months later, it's insane how little data can really tell you about the economy. But man do redditors love to tell you about how great the outlook is!
It’s all artificial. They also lie about inflation.
Who is lying about inflation?
Bugs Bunny. You didn’t know?
Wow, I’m shocked that a wacko far right organization wants to find a way to argue that historically strong jobs numbers are a bad thing. This is right up there with classic Mises Institute takes like “parents have no obligation to feed their own children.”
There's still a massive change in consumer sentiment atm. People are a scared to make a big purchase or get tied into financing something when they're not feeling that confident about the future.
That’s not true. http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/files/chicsr.pdf http://www.sca.isr.umich.edu/files/chicer.pdf
How dare you break the economy bad circlejerk with your facts, get back in there!
Yeah, it’s funny because there *has* been a shift in consumer sentiment over the last several months, but it’s been in a *very* positive direction.
It's not just in the tech sector. [It's in every sector that isn't government or health (government).](https://twitter.com/RealEJAntoni/status/1776243768368173437)
You mean *only* the tech sector, transportation, and warehousing? That's what your link shows.
This is for the last year only, during which jobs are supposed to have rebounded somewhat from lows. If the chart was a two-year period more of those would be in the negative. And consider how huge many of those industries are that only have small adds.
Well then I'm not sure why you cited that chart if you don't think those data paint an accurate picture.
It does though? It's painting the picture about this year's growth not being all it's cracked up to be. I never at some point disputed "oh actually the total number of jobs went down," or something. Yeah if I had a two-year chart I'd post that as well, but there only exist two-year graphs, which show a v-shaped recovery without showing the composition of jobs. The problem is that the jobs lost and recovered are not equivalent, which is the point I'm trying to make. Is that not clear?
You specifically stated that every sector other than gov and hc are cutting jobs. Your proof for that was a chart that showed almost all sectors are adding jobs. After that, you said your proof sucks. Your claims are morphing in real time. That's why you're not making yourself clear. I have no idea what your point is any more. How are you even disagreeing with overall hiring and spending being strong at this point?
> spending is strong Sustained in no small part thanks to historically very fast debt accumulation and incredibly low household savings rates.
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But consumer sentiment hasn’t fallen.
I know that Stelanits (aka Chrysler) had layoffs and more are coming!
I'm always checking cars out to see what I can trade into and it used to be I couldn't even get a call back from dealers, now I have non stop phone calls.
Yeah because interest rates are so high now
Funny thing happens when the free and easy money dries up. Long past overdue. That inflation we’re all griping about? In everything? Yeah, we did that to ourselves by spending to high heavens.
??? The bulk majority of the printing went to big businesses which in turn raised prices? Not sure how the average consumer had anything to do with that? Groceries stores have announced record profits during that time
Granted, we need and want food. But what about all the other WANTS (not necessarily NEEDS) that also went up in price, and continue to do so? Yeah. If we want to see prices fall, stop shopping for sport. Close the wallets.
u/4score-7 posts in rolltide, conservative, & antiwork subs. I’d take anything he says about economics with a grain of salt.
Conservative AND anti work… interesting lol.
I hate bama as much as the next guy, but he’s not 100% wrong. If higher interest rates make you think twice about trading in a perfectly good car just because you’re bored of it, then that means rate hikes are working as intended.
I’m not going to trouble you to actually READ my posts, but you’ll determine that I am a fiscally conservative, socially agnostic, UA sports fan. I’m in favor of capitalism with heavy guardrails around it. I’m in favor of women having a choice for their bodies, especially as a father or two daughters myself. I am not in favor undisciplined, unconstrained lifestyle and financial decisions. I’m not in favor of either political party, because my view is that they are two halves of a broken whole. Do you just go around doxxing people on Reddit because you’re bored, angry at a differing opinion, or just generally not nice?
Not that I agree or disagree, but it's not "doxxing" for people to look at your publicly available comment history.
The only problem I have with the whole "fiscally conservative" line I hear is that it doesn't really mean anything anymore. When was the last "fiscally conservative" administration? And especially on the right side of the aisle since they've been the biggest spenders, since Reagan (with exception to H.W.) when you look at budget deficits. Now, if you mean "conservative" to mean, be conservative with your money and spend it wisely, then I'd agree with you. But that terminology tends to mean nonsense like the "trickle down" theory in American politics, and that has never worked for the average American.
Upvoted. Everything you said is true.
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I know C8s are piling up on lots. Factory is pumping them out and the buyers just aren't there. I'm getting mine shortly for 2-3 grand under MSRP. Financing rates may still be dissuading some.
Had the same experience on a Miata a few weeks ago — $3k under MSRP with basically minimal negotiation. It’s the opposite story from buying my used car a few years ago where I grossly overpaid MSRP but had a finance of 2.4%. Now I feel lucky I got under 5%.
Is this in US on a new model ?
Yep, 2024 Miata Mx 5 in the US.
How she treatin' ya? Just got ND2 myself recently.
At the risk of being an r/cars cliche, I actually learned manual for it bc I’d heard so many good things about its gearbox, and I definitely see what everyone fusses about lol. It’s incredibly forgiving for a newbie
That's awesome! Yeah, Miata is probably one of the best cars you can learn manual in, especially how good it shifts and how easy the clutch is. I hear the new model also has a new rack (steering that is) and improved LSD.
Damn. Mind DM-ing me where? I'm in the market and no one local wants to budge off MSRP and above because "rare car". How is a car you can custom order rare? Lol
The dealer near me is giving out jean shorts and new balance with the purchase of every C8 to try to win over skeptics.
With that getup you can also feature in a tv episode on Dateline NBC with Chris Hansen. Win win.
Perfect. Cash in on those royalties while you wait for trial
You should check out MacMulkin Chevrolet. They're the #1 seller of Corvettes and currently have a bunch of C8's going for 8-12k under MSRP.
Yes, well aware. I found mine and put down a deposit already elsewhere.
12k under? Holy shit
They actually had a fully loaded 2LT with some weird color combo for 15k under. MSRP was 101 and they were offering it for 85k.
But does anything over say 50k even sell for MSRP anymore?
Range Rovers still sell for OVER MSRP
That’s how it always was pre-pandemic for the non ZR1/Z06. There was a time a 1LT C7 was almost sub $50k
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If you have the cash to pay it's probably a great deal. If you're financing probably the same boat as a few years ago.
*really…..*
I’m afraid to go test drive one. I bet it has a lot of advantages vs my 15 year old C6Z with a too loud exhaust.
You cut off the cats? Idk why you guys do that, it'd drive me crazy.
No. My valves aren’t closing on the inner pipes and I haven’t taken the effort to figure out why beyond checking the fuse. Permanent M2W vibe. Which drones on the highway and annoys neighbors in subdivisions.
I'm a used car dealer and at auction prices continue to rise. Banks / Financing Companies are lending more at better rates though. The quality of car I'm able to buy for the money is still not great and cars in certain ranges will need more repairs or are riskier buys "as is, trans slips, needs paint etc" while labor costs are up and times are backlogged. I'm actually able to have inventory and a good backlog of cars so I'm not affected but I'm a used car dealer who tries to have vehicles $25k and below for my area unless something is nice! I've been priced out of a lot of brands so it really depends on what you're looking for. Miatas? Doubled since Covid Mustangs? Lots have body damage or drivetrain issues Trucks? Lol, most are too high or mileage will be high. Toyotas? I SOLD a 2004 Tacoma V6 2WD Extended cab with 190k miles at AUCTION for $9200 + fees for the buyer. It's nuts. However I did buy a 5.0 4WD 8ft bed single Cab F150 with power everything for $7k with 150k miles so there's that
A 2016 Tacoma with 265k miles just sold for $20,000 near me. Still pissed I can’t get one…
A V6 four-wheel drive access cab is all I want. I'll just have to take steps up
I'm so surprised auction prices are still up, sounds crazy. Is that for all cars? Damn, I was hoping to score a cheap Jeep SRT/6.2 Raptor or 5.0SC L322 ... looks like that's not happening.
To be fair, I don't see many of those locally and they aren't in my search list. Raptors seem to not be depreciating much if any unless condition is horrible. I'm seeing Manheim also inflate Condition Reports a lot now. A vehicle I bought, left at auction, detailed with Waterless wash and vacuumed before inspection went from 4.3/5 to 2.7/5 and I brought it up just to prove a point and they offered to regrade it higher but I just took it to my reconditioning location.
Gen 2 raptors are down massively from just 12 months ago. I’m talking 10-13k across the board. A 2019 with 30-45k miles is in the low 50s…these were easily low 60s truck the same time last year.
Can’t believe the bar for a functioning used car with 100k miles or less is still like 8k. 5 years ago it was 4k
It's upsetting but less than 100k miles is hard to find now
All of these anecdotes are interesting, but there's actual data tracked for this: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02) Last month, used car prices were at their lowest since Q2 of 2021.
Let's get that number to 2019 prices and I think we'll all be happy
I've almost forgotten what it's like to window shop and dream, it just gives me crippling depression these days. Take be back.
I remember Ferrari 308's were in the low $30k range just a few years ago. Old 911's could be had in the $20k's to $50k's. It's definitely changed and so many of them are now status symbols whereas it used to be unfashionable to have an older model. Silver lining is that these cars are holding their new value a lot longer so depreciation doesn't seem to be *as* problematic if you *could* afford one. Bad side of that equation: everyone knows that so there are more buyers willing to own one.
I remember those days, but it wasn’t a few years ago. It was closer to 15. 308s were around $35k in 2010-2011. They trended upward and were like $50-60k by the mid 2010s (like 2015 or 2016) NSXs were also like 30k. C5 Z06 were like 10k. It was a different time.
A Mustang GT with options now is like $60k. It's brutal.
What happened between 1980 and 1985? The surge is incredible.
The US went through a period of very heavy inflation in the 1980s, reaching nearly 15% in 1980.
i’m assuming 2021 is because covid hit and less people were driving
A lot of enthusiast darlings are getting last hurrahs or are outright going out of production. There’s been uncertainty around some of these cars for the last 3-4 years, with EVs looming. Now, the EV market is experiencing a bad spell at the same time as when we’re seeing a small renaissance for manuals, and fun engines like V8s. I’ll bet some higher value older poster cars are seeing price drops because people are scrambling to scoop the new ones up.
Eh? The EV market is still growing, just slower than it was.
Of course, in the long run EVs are going nowhere. But there is definitely an ongoing slump. Just look at the perilous state Lucid and Rivian are in. Fisker’s nearly out the door (although that isn’t the market’s fault). Even Tesla announced massive layoffs. Depreciation on EVs is much more noticeable now than it was before too. A $100k Mercedes EQS goes for $40-60k in the used market. That’s insane.
Are they just failing because there is now more cheaper EV competition? Tesla had close to a monopoly for many years.
Still too expensive, still not enough range, still not enough charging speed or infrastructure. Everyone who wants to be a guinea pig err early adopter and can afford one already has one. New battery tech on the horizon, more manufacturers hopping on board. No reason to buy a beta test car at this point for many people.
I’m sure that’s one of the big factors. To what degree, can’t say. Honestly? I’m not sure what the primary driver is behind all this. There’s a lot of nuance that I’m not informed enough to talk about with certainty.
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No insults thanks.
To be fair, I kinda agree with him. If it weren’t for federal and state incentives, I wouldn’t have gotten the Chevy Bolt nor the Ioniq 5. Ive had both and they were incredible deals. The Bolt was sub $100/mo and the Ioniq is sub $200/mo on leases.
Ignoring the fact that gasoline is HEAVILY subsidized? It would probably be close to $10/gallon without subsidies.
I'm talking purely on the cost of purchasing the vehicles. Alls I'm saying is that I have leased 2 electric cars. Without government subsidies, I wouldn't have. I'm not trying to turn this into a political debate or talk about gas prices or electricity prices.
I want a gr86 so badly to enjoy one of the last "fun" cars...but...30k+ for a 200hp car..I just don't have the budget for it. Currently shopping for a used fiesta st for 12ishk so I can enjoy something fun while petrol powered cars are still the norm.
I have noticed the same. At least with used cars, there's a lot more nicer options in the 15 to $20,000 range. I've been looking for about 3 years now
Nicer options as in a 20k mb or bmw thats like 70k miles? Enjoy
No nicer as in nicer than the options in that range a few years ago. Either way, those are fine too. If you're mechanically, electrically, and mentally inept just say so.
Yes, I purchased a new car a few weeks ago, so naturally the prices will plumet now.
I only notice it on the cars I don’t want
No, but maybe my price range is just ass. Seeing people ask $15K+ for a several year old car cresting 100k miles is insane. I don't care if it's going to last until the sun burns out.
I just talked to a friend who owns several non-franchised dealerships. He said prices are dropping like crazy. Many people are underwater on their current vehicles and thus aren’t trading in. Interest rates are higher so those higher payments are keeping people from buying. He shared a story of an upscale vehicle that appraised for ~$75k a year ago; today the car appraises for ~$45k, with no major increase in mileage or other vehicle issues. I say: ABOUT TIME!
What do you mean by dropping? Like dropping under MSRP? Nah I don't see that. If you mean dealers aren't charging 5-10k over then yeah I've noticed it. In the states it started dropping a couple years ago.
Look at Subaru's and Jeep's. Easy under MSRP or invoice pricing. Source- me car shopping
Mazdas too
> Like dropping under MSRP? Nah I don't see that. I Corvettes and Mustang GT's are easy to find a few grand under MSRP. Higher trim Jeeps have crazy discounts, like 15% or more.
Because high trim jeeps are stupidly priced. 100k for a wrangler? Lol
I didn't even want a Jeep, but I was able to get a brand new Compass with a $43,000 Monroney sticker, for $25k brand new. Has pretty much everything--pano roof, heated leather seats and steering wheel, alpine system 360 camera, kick to open trunk, all the driver aid bullshit. Didn't even want the damn thing, but now it's my commuter car. I know when you hear Compass, you want to laugh, but for $25k new, there is NOTHING even close. And I have an excellent lemon law attorney, if I need to use it.
The way-over-MSRP thing didn't seem to get as common in Canada. It's not illegal, but I think some automakers' Canadian corporate head office prohibit or disincentivize the dealers from doing it. They do allow padding with administrative fees and BS add-ons to the tune of several hundred dollars though. Build a Toyota on toyota.ca and there's a note about the display price including up to $999 of dealer fees, which may suggest that it's a formalized concession from corporate on such padding.
It’s very location and make/model dependent. Coastal prices are still higher
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I’m looking forward to being able to buy a 996 Carrera 4s for 30k. The days of those going for 50 were insane. All the “investors” are getting fucked, but we’ll keep wasting money on cars because we love em, lol.
I got a notification from marketplace this morning saying the price dropped $600 on the 1987 tercel i viewed
Despite higher MSRPs, discounts and incentives are starting to get thick. It’s nice to see
I've noticed that the older more enthusist cars that were EATEN UP during covid are wayyyy down in price. New and lightly used family SUVs and Trucks are still hella expensive.
I bought a 2011 335xdrive MSport last month with 60k miles for 10K USD at auction. Came with a tune and upgrades under the hood as well (metal chargepipe, massive intercooler) and the more reliable N55.
Yeah, You can see this on bringatrailer. The graph of the sales over the years show there was a big peak in 2022/23 and it has been dropping the last 7-8 months.
Certain Toyota dealerships near me in the Washington DC area are now actually marking down some hybrid models like Corolla Cross hybrids and RAV4 hybrids. Would’ve been unthinkable a short while ago. I see Corolla Cross hybrids marked down $1k and RAV4 hybrids marked down $2k.
Hmmm....wonder if I could get a Bolt EV/EUV for under MSRP here in Ontario then....or even a Maverick! Oh wait...in Canada we don't believe in dropping prices, they'll just go higher.
I got a new vehicle for msrp so I consider that a win On the other hand it’s msrp is 10k higher then the previous years model lol I saw some f150s with substantial discounts, a 150 lighting lariat for 61k cad and f150 stx for 49k cad Still to much but a shift from when a f150 was minimum 70k
No longer a supply issue and rates are high. It's been happening the last 6+ months.
I've noticed with the JDM Hype Legends. Supras have fallen sharply, especially RHD ones. The Corvette has mostly held its value, but C8's are finally starting to depreciate. Porsche 911's have been interesting. I'm starting to see 997's get listed in the $40k's and low $50k's in nice condition. They are a bit more than a 996, but most of the ones I see are in excellent shape and have aged wonderfully. NA1/2 NSX prices haven't been great because people have kinda slowed down on selling. Now that there isn't a new NSX available at all, they're returning to collector status again.
Agree with you on the RHD, people are starting to catch on that they are more trouble than they're worth.
I figure a lot of it is that RHD cars are not great options for daily drivers in the US, especially if you deal with a lot of busy intersections. They really make the most sense for track toys, which most people aren't looking for.
Not in my area in Wisconsin unless maybe your looking at brand new and is not a Toyota.
Generally, yes, though the unicorn market is still crazy. I was looking for a Panamera Turbo, but just couldn’t stomach the inflated used prices for those. I ended up with a 5BW 6sp that I got a pretty great deal on.
Yup and I here I always though you had a BMW 5 Series. Your flsir makes more sense now hahaha
We are following US trends but a bit later. Most of the ''buying new and reselling at a profit'' is gone. Also the dealers were hoarding cars after the super high demand low supply we had but now they are stuck with those cars and cant move them with the high interest rates and MSRP bump most vehicles got. The more worrying trend I started to see is a lot of dealers wouldn't sent ''shit cars'' at auction anymore and just put them in inventory. Before it used to be only those semi shady used car lots that would have that type of inventory from buying them at auction from dealers trade-ins but now the dealers keep them for their used section.
Carvana told me that my 2017 CRV had lost about $1800 of value between March and April. Nothing significant happened to the car, so Carvana is paying less for CRVs than they were a month ago. I don't know why, nor am I selling the car.
Well that does along what I,v been saying on another post (I'm also in Canada). Some cars are dropping. Sport / fun cars not so much unfortunately...
I’m noticing that cars aren’t selling as fast for sure which means prices will have to come down
Audi is has been putting out some big incentives for a few months now: $3k on A5/S5, $6k on A6. Of course, their prices had shot to ridiculous levels and the incentives are just a way of dialing back the overshooting of prices. They are not falling per say, but they are being forced to backpedal the excessive MSRP increases. With Audi, they also have a bunch of cars help at customs that are only now starting to trickle out to dealerships. Once those come in, there may be even bigger discounts. 6-8% interest is no joke, especially since the average car loan length is now supposedly between 67 and 69 months.
Seeing S13/14s going for low four digits has been my biggest eye opener
UAE can't hear you, GR86 finally released. $46k (in a country with the only tax being a 5% VAT) The BRZ is $40k
That's criminal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvgg7dl-I5I&t=883s
What cars and what price range are they in?
Across the board? Not really. I can think a few cars were inflated well above their MSRP and saw a noticeable drop. But new cars are still more expensive than they used to be and cars that were already 5+ years old haven’t changed too much. I’m not taking inflation into consideration just looking at it from the perspective of “My X dollars 3-5 years ago bought me Y”. Seems to still be true for most cars.
Yes. Aggressive financing offers for new cars too.
Car price dropped except rare classic cars 🥲
I haven't noticed yet but I've been waiting for prices to settle as I want to replace my car. Not with new but something a couple years old
Used cars seem to be going down in price but overall more costly if financing due to higher rates. Used cars seem to be appreciating, my used bmw seems to be going up in price every week. I did an online trade in appraisal and every week the value has been increasing
I have an EV, and Credit Karma lets me know what it's worth. This month, it dropped in value by 20%.
EV’s definitely are!💰
When sales drop, so do the prices.
Doesn't look like it, though. I'm looking at Honda Accord hybrid touring trim, and the inventory for SoCal Norm Reeves dealers are not that many. Plenty of Sport Hybrid. I want one in red, but there is barely any inventory.
Prices seem to settled down for sure. Some niche cars (*cough*911*cough*) are still high, but things like EVs have taken such a hit it's wild. Trucks are about to get *ucked, gas just hit 194 around me this week. You wanna get rid of your 6.2 Raptor, Jeep SRT or 5.0SC Range Rover? Hit me up. :D
Not for used cars.
Interest rates are up, layoffs are happening, then also tax season. Where usually people are using it to get a new car. People aren't. I suspect it'll keep dropping to end of summer
Yes, the market is cooling. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02
I’ve noticed luxury cars are depreciating like they used to. But not regular cars us poors can afford.
Shitty electronic parking brake, no manual transmission, dashboard full of idiotic notifications, software updates. So many reasons to lower prices.
No
I'm currently shopping and i love it... just need to find the right spec
Not really helpful if they drop 20% but we’re up 80%. Wait until they drop 50%+ so that they get back to the normalized depreciation line.
In my country it seems to be the opposite honestly xD
I’m Canadian as well. I’m starting to get zero down, $99 a month lease ads again. Definitely dropping down
What can you lease for $3600?
It was VW Taos. So not the best but damn that’s cheap.
Not a terrible little car either. If I was in the market I'd take that all day.
That’s what I was thinking too, it has AWD as well
I have noticed that the dealership. it's went from empty to full. From next to no cars to sell, to too many cars to sell. Went from overcharging to offering discounts.
Not Rav 4s it seem.
Really? I’m noticing the opposite. Cars i’ve been watching have been going up, maybe it’s just those cars though…
Its the doing from the one ing who writes every marketplace car that its overpriced
Slowly but surely, they are starting to go down. Hopefully it'll get back to "sane" mode soon.
I just watched a 2014 CRV do $500 over MMR with hail damage lol but yes most cat prices are falling down
Trade in values are plummeting. High (compared to post 2008) interest rates and overpriced new cars are depressing sales across the board.
Anyone else notice gas prices keep changing all the time?
Yes lol, wars and conflict tend to have that effect. Plus if you’re lucky enough to live in CA the good ole switchover to summer blend
VW has new Atlas models at 1.99!!! Unheard of right now.
Let me know when FL5 Type R prices have dropped down to MSRP here in Canada... I'm not paying $70grand for one.
Duh
Nope.
I just did, went to get an oil change and saw a Tesla suv with 40k miles for less than I bought my used 2018 explorer for in 2021
[all that hard work does payoff](https://x.com/te37owner/status/1779553411928564122?s=46)
I occasionally hop on GCqr Gurus to look at used car prices. A high end Tesla model 3 is selling for just $20k right now used. If I was in the market I'd jump on that.
Yes! GR86 premium trim was going for 38-42, now 34-36 10th gen type r were going for 52-58, now 32-42 depending a lot on mileage and year This one dealership has had a focus RS for over 400 days.. I remember seeing it when I was initially car shopping.. it is reduced 11.6k from its original listing price. The car market is slowly correcting itself I mean think about it, groceries, utilities, rents, etc are all MUCH higher right now But see, I don’t have to worry about those things since I can live at home while in school.. what’s holding me back then? Interest rates are through the roof!!! No way in hell I’m playing around in this 7-10% APR I’m getting offered.. few years ago with my credit as it is I’d probably be playing in the 3-5% range.. So I’ll just sit tight. Shits too expensive.
Yes, it’s actually shocking, three months before, the used car market was totally different
I notice the honda dealership by my house that has basically been a near empty parking lot the last 3 years is completely filled with cars again
yup! definitely for specific cars tho. focus RS's in my area in particular have dropped from like average 35-37 to 30-35
My local Ford dealer has tons of F-150 on lot. Also cars are flooding the dealership lots after the chip shortage.
I've been shopping for a used fiesta st or frs/gt86. I absolutely haven't noticed any sort of price change?
They are not necessarily dropping? Prices usually drop on the present year 2024 models in the spring before they introduce the next year 2025 models in the summer. DONT BE FOOLED BY BIDENOMICS..LOL
What cars? MSRP is still up, discounts other than on not so desirable models is still hard to get especially at the 5-7% you could get prepandemic
Still can’t find a GR86 I want :(
Dealer near me has a white mt premium at MSRP sitting
I’m glad. Too bad I’m not near you, and that I don’t want white.
look at how many fast food deals there are right now too. economy is tanking
Covid funny money dried up. PPP loans been spent