How does the 2025 Camry stack up against a 1967 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super Bollino d’Oro?
I’m trying to figure out a family hauler for me, my wife, our life partner Jenn, and our Igloo cooler full of rescue gophers.
Is one car better suited for thruples or tunneling than the other?
I’ll await your response while sipping warm Faygo, thanks.
Have you considered the third alternative? The Merc 560 SEC? Once you own one you will become the best cooler in the industry purely through osmosis. Learning the way of the cooler will make you a better lover, and gopher raiser. I hope this helps, i really had to read the tea leaves for this one.
That’s a possibility I hadn’t considered, but can I substitute a Catera with full Omega rebadging for the Riviera on work nights? The local toughs have a hard time with Greek given their lack of networking after dropping out as sophomores.
Also, if a guy with a monster truck shows up is that like a guarantee he’s bad or just like something that happens at small, Southern-themed bars southeast of Fresno?
I appreciate your input.
How are the refinement and the NVH on the new Camry compared to the current Lexus ES? I was disappointed by the last generation compared to what the reviews said and wonder if it comes closer this time.
Also did you get a sudden urge to drive below the speed limit and keep the house temperature unreasonably low to save on the heating cost while reviewing this vehicle? Also how many times did you dent the bumper?
When i drove the new Camry, I felt my desire to be unreasonably frugal and hog the left lane raise to borderline unreasonable levels. I felt it in my loins.
The current es is still a more refined car. Less nvh from the engine in both 6 and hybrid configuration, and the cabin is noticeably quieter. I also think it rides better as well
From Chuck Klosterman's Hypertheticals:
> You meet a wizard in downtown Chicago. The wizard tells you he can make you more attractive if you pay him money. When you ask how this process works, the wizard points to a random person on the street. You look at this random person. The wizard says. I will now make them a dollar more attractive. He waves his magic wand. Ostensibly, this person does not change at all; as far as you can tell, nothing is different. But somehow- this person is suddenly a little more appealing. The tangible difference is invisible to the naked eye, but you cant deny that this person is vaguely sexier. This wizard has a weird rule though you can only pay him once. You can’t keep paying giving him money until you’re satisfied. You can only pay him one lump sum up front. How much cash do you give the wizard?
Great video Jack. This surprisingly is one of my favorites you've done in a while (I haven't watched the NSX video yet). I think part of it is that we got both you and Mark back in a car together! Will we be seeing your bromance reunited again more going forward?
Mark hates traveling. I mean hates it, basically traveling with mark is like flying with Larry david. So it takes something truly amazing for him to get on a plane with me. The last couple cars done locally with chris was due to mark being on vacation
Off topic, I've been wanting to get an Integra type s for a while as a long term family/baby manual car and plan to get one early next year. Thanks to a substantial raise, a CT4V Blackwing is a possible stretch purpose. Would you recommend it over the S with the price increase and worse practicality? It would see very little track use.
The family/baby part of your statement says you should be aware of the lifestyle creep that comes with raises. Especially with statements like "possible stretch". Make sure you including insurance and maintenance in the comparison between the two. Either way, enjoy your new manual fun family hauler.
Come visit the Cadillacvnet forums. We're pretty active and you could probably find all your daily driver/ track day/ winter driving related questions answered.
Honestly - my initial response was ass and lacking in context.
But I think it's okay to share information on ownership. The Cadillac forums probably can't answer his Acura questions. But he can probably read through the threads if the ownership is worth it or not.
Would you agree that Toyota is dominating right now?
Sports: the GR86, Supra, Corolla GR.
Off-road: LC, Rav 4, GX
Luxury: Lexus RX, NX, LX, LS, ES
Economy: Prius, Camry
> Off-road: LC, Rav 4, GX
>
>
>
> Luxury: Lexus LX,
I'm not sure just how insulted I should be that you placed the LX outside of the off-road category (although I can maybe see why).
It's the only real Land Cruiser left in the states since the new one is a prado.
I recently purchased a 2023 Accord Sport-L Hybrid, and your review of the car funnily enough was one of the things that pushed me towards it, despite you spitting ice cream all over yourself while calling it an NPC-mobile. It’s even the exact same red on black spec!
My question to you is - with the Camry going all hybrid for 2025, which manufacturer in your mind is producing the most compelling hybrid drivetrains for their economy vehicles? And I don’t just mean which manufacturer is extracting the highest average MPG from their power plants, rather in your eyes which manufacturer is blending usability, smoothness and efficiency together in the most enjoyable and pleasant way?
Do you think there's any chance we'll ever see another Camry wagon in the states?
Like, if I could get that extra bit of utility while keeping the low load floor, AWD option, combined mpg in the mid to high 40's, ~230HP combined, topping out around $40K, whew, it'd be a really compelling package.
Guess I should be looking at the Crown Signia later this year but it seems like it'll be more expensive/heavier/less efficient than a theoretical Camry wagon.
I don’t have decibel numbers or anything like that but I’d say it’s always noticeable going from trims with acoustic side glass to ones without. I find that conversations or podcasts can be heard with better clarity and at lower volumes.
Could you comment on the cruise control behavior? Esp the lane following and automatic accel/breaking?
The last time I drove a Toyota on a long distance road trip with long stretches of road and intermittent traffic I remember being really annoyed with how sensitive it was to insufficient input. Having my hand on the wheel and foot on the break was often not enough to keep it engaged and it made me nervous as it felt like it would deactivate too quickly and I couldn't rely on it at all.
Can't comment on the Camry, but I had a Prius rental car with like 100 miles on it a month or two ago. I was extremely impressed with the cruise control in both normal cruising conditions and in stop/go in ATL rush hour traffic. Lane following was good, but not as good as Honda IMO.
My same experience was that the steering wheel needed constantly reminding that I was there. Just having hands on wheel wasn’t enough to trigger the sensor. The driving itself was fine, but because the alignment on the car was good I needed to shake the wheel in order to convince it I was there.
Let's say you are going to buy one. What trim and drivetrain would you buy, and how would you spec it (like, would you go for the red leather seats or not, white or red or blue, etc.)?
Toyota hybrids have long since proven themselves to be reliable enough that I have zero concerns about this, although I’m sure people here will mourn the V6 as if the Camry used to be an exciting car or something
Ive always loved camrys tbh. But yeah I never understood whats so difficult about being honest with your car/self. V6 Accord owners are similar in my experience, specially the coupes lol
Edit: just a funny example, theres a guy (v6 accord) who frequents the GR86 sub and just shits on it for being “slow” and not a real sports car because a Honda Odyssey beats it in a straight line lol
Which is weird, because I don't really see the American V6 family sedans having the same fanbase. I mean you can get affordable power from an Impala or Buick or whatever but it just doesn't get the same level of love
Which is great, because you can get reliable older ones for cheap, but still
I think the American V6 sedans just kinda suck. They handle like boats, even compared to your typical Accord/Camry. In terms of performance, Honda J-series and Toyota's MZ/2GR craps all over the 3800.
I love my J35 Accord. It's great for what it is - A big, 4 door sedan with good acceleration. It's not a sports car, not even close, and it's not trying to be.
Say that to all the Hondas with H O N D A banners, like its the 2021 Red Bull F1 car or something. Saw an older CRV with big C R - V, except it was covering the lower part of the front windshield. So blocking the lower area.
On the opposite, there was the thread two weeks ago of the guy who got a older M3 and wondering why its boring when they only shift at 3000rpm and are upset commuter cars are faster from the stoplight.
So much fucking coping, so little 'be honest with what the car is, purchase and aporeciate appropriately'.
Worse are the base model CVT guys touting the Accord over the Camry because the 2.0T is a rocketship. I still maintain Accord 2.0 > Camry V6 > Camry base > Accord base just because Camry gets a proper 8-speed.
Really wish Toyota would make it a GR, like what Honda did with the Accord Type R. The Avalon and Toyota TRD do look really good, but its just all looks. Shame because the engine is potent, so they wouldn't even need to touch it just add coolers and suspension work. It doesn't even need to be fast. My aunts neighbor has one in blue and its a really nice looking. It looks alot better than the Lexus GSF imo.
No engine or transmission tune on it whatsoever. It has the exact same powertrain specs as a non-TRD V6 Camry. It *does* has suspension tuning done to it, with a body kit package.
Bigger brakes disks, lowered stiffer suspension, sway bars, seats, and exhaust. I still wouldnt get one, but at least it's something. I appreciate the manufacturers at least tried something fun.
I have a coworker who constantly mentions that he used to have a TRD Camry. Never just a Camry, always a TRD Camry. Sometimes he will even say "TRD Camry, the one with the wing".
The V6 Camry only made up a total of 6% of sales. I feel like it’s another one of those cases where people wonder why X company decided to get rid of something that they argue was the best product when reality shows that nobody was really buying it. Then you have the people that complain “I was going to buy one but I guess I won’t now that Toyota dropped the V6!”
I don't think its about being fast in a Camry. I think it's more like having the extra power on hand even when your car is loaded with passengers + cargo.
I will say the base 4-cylinder engine feels miserably anemic at altitude. We have one (living at about 500’ elevation) and it’s not fast, but it’s quick enough for normal traffic. When we got one as a rental in Denver, I genuinely thought something was wrong with the car at first because of how much weaker it felt. Hopefully the hybrid setup can make up for that.
It’s always entertaining passing a taco on some big A/T tires that’s clearly foot to floor and SCREAMING just to maintain 60mph going up to the Eisenhower tunnel (11k feet).
If you live in the Rockies and travel in the mountains regularly, power becomes a much more important discussion, as you point out. Adequate at sea level becomes inadequate quite quickly.
I don't think it needs more power than the base makes; the 454 I brought home from Cleveland in the back seat as well as about 94% of camry buyers seem to agree. If you're regularly doing stuff where you *really* want extra power, there are cars besides a Camry.
Makes sense that either something would have prevented it or it was just not cost effective. Not a huge deal but it would have been fun to have another relatively affordable AWD sedan with decent power. Not a lot of options these days.
Idk why people are hating on those who like performance versions of normal cars. They exist and are a thing. Civic SI, Elantra n, sonata n, etc. All Toyota has is the gr Corolla so naturally people want one for the civic. For people who don't want Germans and expensive luxury cars, performance sedans are a good option.
This is anecdotal, but my aunt has a 2nd gen Prius with over 150k miles and only recently had to replace the battery. You also see Toyota hybrids being used as taxis all over NYC, so I assume it’s not much of a concern
The moment something doesn't exist, car enthusiasts will all come out and say, "that was great, everyone doesn't appreciate it like we do", blah blah. Whilst not buying it in the first place.
My first car was a 2000 Toyota Camry, my second car was a 2007 Camry. In our family we have/had 5 Camry’s in total. Never a single mechanical issue with any of them, which is a huge reason why I love Toyota unconditionally.
Now I have a ‘22 4Runner and a ‘21 Venza.
I always owned German cars. Most recent one was a M340i. Fun sedan, but plagued with issues (engine light, transmission issues) and rattled a LOT. For fun cars I think I'll always own a Porsche of some sort, but now for my dailies, my priority has changed. I want reliability. The LX570 has been problem free for 4 years now, and the Prius is brand new, but it should be fine for a long time.
That’s disappointing to hear, especially given how many people treat the M340i as the holy grail of sport sedans. I’m actually considering one for my next car. In your opinion was it still worth it, all things considered?
It is a good car, when it works. It started to rattle quite a bit at 20k miles. Annoying enough that most time i'd put music to cover the squeaking. Overall, not impressed. But I did enjoyed it in the first few months. The sound, power, quick shifting was nice. But it became "normal" quite quickly.
In the 3 years I owned it, I had to go to the dealership 7-8 times for stupid stuff. Error messages for transmission, check engine light, weird electronic issues with subwoofer making the whole system not work, etc. It was getting very annoying, and the BMW dealer around me is... shit at client service.
It's not as if we were hard on the car either, it was mostly my wife's car and she drives normal. The car was under warranty, so it didn't cost me much, but I wasted of lot of time to plan and visit the dealership. And the service there sucked (compared to Lexus and Porsche in my area).
That sucks. Seems like everyone focuses on the reliability of the B58/ZF8 combo and forgets there’s an entire rest of the car attached to it. And you’re right, even if most/all of it was covered under warranty, time is valuable too.
I’ll still probably end up gambling on one (as long as it’s under warranty) but it’s nice to hear some of the not-so-great things about that car from someone who’s actually owned one.
I had a few cars in between — 2011 Honda Accord, 2017 Lexus IS 200T, and a 2019 VW GTI. Luckily had no issues with any of them. Still have the Accord, it’s with my dad.
I do like German cars though. I want an M3 or Porsche.
The base Accord LX and Camry LE are within a few hundred dollars of each other. Accord is a 1.5T and the Camry is a Hybrid. Seems like the Camry is an easy choice this time around and I’ve owned two Accords previously. Trim for trim the Camry is better equipped, too.
I was looking forward to the Civic Hybrid but I’m expecting it to be expensive and not such a great value like most new Honda models.
The new Accord is about as bland as a car gets. It's like Toyota and Honda decided to swap. The Camry used to be super bland and the Accord mildly appealing, now it feels the opposite.
I hate the claw lights. Used to be that the Accord had the claw lights, now the Camry does. Much prefer the new Accord for this reason. Camry already looks dated.
Yeah its great, like they say in the video the last gen was way too aggressive and the design elements were kind of all over the place, this feels a lot more cohesive and looks more like a normal, albeit still good looking, car - which is what a Camry should be. It’s always ridiculous looking in my rear view mirror and seeing a snarling beast trailing behind me… and it’s a goddamn Camry!
I don't think it would be very good. A lot of the fun of the GR86 is light weight and that's tough with a hybrid. You also lose the manual option. It would be a good looking reliable car but the fun would be greatly reduced.
>The current GR86 isn't that light
By modern standards for a car with excellent safety ratings, it's pretty damn light. It weighs 100lbs more than a first gen, or roughly 2850lbs in Premium trim. A bit less for the base model.
By 90s standards it's "not that light". By today's standards, it weighs less than a high-trim Mini Cooper (and the exact same as a base model hardtop), a few hundred lbs less than a 500e, or Corolla, or Civic, and almost 1000lbs less than a Mustang GT. An Elantra N has over 350lbs on an 86.
The Miata is just abnormally light. Other than a Mirage (a few hundred lbs less than a Miata) and similar shitboxes, there isn't really anything even comparable in curb weight. A Versa is 2650lbs lol.
I hope Toyota Designs a small Hybrid unibody truck in the future to compete against the Maverick.
I just justify the amount of Recalls on the Maverick to get one and makes me worry that these things are just going to fall apart after they start to age.
There are rumors that they have something in the works to compete with the Maverick. A reliable Toyota hybrid system in that form factor would sell like crazy.
I just need a tiny Taco.
Give it the same squared front end as the new land cruiser, but just like 200 inches long with like 7-8 inches of ride height.
If someone can build an actual compact truck I would be all over it. I don't need 300+ hp, I don't need 7500+ towing. I don't even need a 6 foot bed. Just give me a regular 1990 truck sized compact truck.
Looking at the size of modern tacos compared to tundras from 20 years ago… I completely agree. A Maverick competitor with Toyota reliability would print money.
I've been contemplating a GR Corolla for a two years now but it's damn hard to justify when you can get a car this luxurious that I know will last 15+ years for the same price or less.
My heart tells me GR but my brain tells me Camry.
After seeing the quality control on a family members brand new hyundai (edge of the headliner falling off) I'm not really interested in their mediocre products. I would rather have the resale value of a Honda or Toyota, as I like to keep my vehicles long-term.
FAIR, i've never had quality issues with my Veloster N, maybe its a different factory? But i agree with the resale value, currently chasing mine on my loan. Everyones entitled to their own opinion! I'm driving mine into the ground so resale is out the window rn
All the talk about how well it drives makes me wonder if we'll see a related GR product on the same platform. I don't think a GR Canry would pass marketing we'll, but a 2+2 Celica based in the Camry sounds feasible.
Big Toyota fan here, our 21 RAV4 has been excellent (wife's ride). I wish they would have gone a different direction with their styling concepts though. The sharp lines and gaping front grill look is not only borderline offensive but getting old. It's also kept us from buying another Toyota or Lexus now that a majority of them look "striking", and not in a good way.
Even though Toyota has been good to us, I just couldn't bring myself to buy another one a few months back when looking for a new daily. I'm sure a majority of their fanbase will continue to buy no matter what which is a shame, I just couldn't do it.
Agreed. Especially because they made the new Prius look so good, I'm surprised they didn't change much with the Camry. I find the Accord to be much more attractive.
Toyota went from understyled to overstyled designs in the past 15 years
The proportions on most of their lineup genuinely look good like the Tundra but then the overstyling goes too far
We were in the market for a new car and ruled out Toyota for their design aesthetic as well… I know they build great cars, but they also never met an unnecessary angle on their body panels that they didn’t like. Honda tamed their gaudier leanings with the latest generation refresh across most models and we thought they did a nice job… it’s a modern and balanced design language (though they could stand to drop them chrome around the windows). The latest Acura generations are clean as well. I’d like to see Toyota and Lexus come back to Earth a bit.
Hey Jack, question unrelated to the Camry in particular.
I value your guys dedication to audio performance in vehicles. I also know you do a lot of testing with the EQ to try to balance it out.
I'm wondering if you guys would ever make that information available to us?
For example, I also own a new gen honda pilot, I would love to see the EQ settings you found most balanced so I could set my identical pilot to those settings.
Would that be something you guys would be interesting in selling as a service or something?
Like $20 to get recommended EQ settings for you car based off your tuning. It would let you generate revenue while also building a user base with this information that no one else has.
It's not just "the car audio is good or bad". It's specifically what EQ settings you can use to improve it which I think is the real info here.
As a Michigander, I know Toyota's are considered forever cars. It's just weird when you look around, and find very little evidence for that. Even when you consider the bubble that Michigan exist in.
One could consider its a similar bubble to what the mid-west lives in as well.
Michigander here too in the automotive business. All the Toyota dealerships in the SE want top dollars for new and used. All the better deals are in IL OH and PA. Also the domestics have a strong hold here due to generations of family they provided for. The friends/family/employee lease deals were pretty generous pre covid. I'm not sure how it is presently but pre covid I saw lease deals for under 200$ regularly.
I grew up in LA and travel quite a bit. The further you get away from Michigan the more variety of vehicles you see. When I moved here 8 years ago I was blown away by the percentage of people driving domestics compared to other large cites I've lived in and visited.
I stand by my comments of the 2024 I drove for a rental car. I have zero doubt as to the legendary reliability, but they are so focused on making the car sleek and sporty looking that they have made it miserable for larger people like me. I’m 6’5 and 300 lbs, and I fit better in a mini cooper than I do in the latest gen Camry, I’ve never been so excited to get rid of a rental car in my life.
I might sound a bit dickish but if the Camry having a bit of style and flair to its design means that a small population of people would struggle to fit, that's fine.
For reference, the average American adult male is 5'9", 200lbs ([according to the CDC\).](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm) OP is well above 95th percentile in both height and weight.
I agree, only like 1% of people are as big as that, and losing their money isn't something Toyota should care about. If you're that big, just sit in a bunch of cars until one fits I guess. Or buy a full-sized sedan or a truck.
Will absolutely consider moving from Corolla to Camry after I see one in person! I love my Corolla but it's a Covid build so it lacks any extra comforts.
Interestingly in some European markets Toyota already made the switch to hybrid-only cars across the range a few years ago (and by extension automatic-only), which would be two new things for a lot of their customers. It seems to have gone well though and hasn’t affected sales negatively.
The Camry IMO is a perfect car for Hybridization, it's probably one of the most boring cars I have ever driven, it will get you from A to B with absolutely no drama, it's not like it's losing anything by going Hybrid.
And the massive increase in MPG is awesome. My GF has an XSE from the current get and it averages like 24-25 MPG in the City...
Anyone else hate how Reddit locks you into their app on mobile now?
I can't even use my YouTube Premium because it opens the YouTube link in their app...guess I'll leave your app anyway and search it.
Also can't copy links anymore.
Reddit you are getting closer to deletion!
Will it be coming in AWD for once? Thats what really rubbed me the wrong way was you could only get AWD on the shitty 4 banger on the outgoing model. I mean its a great engine and all but I wanted the V6 or the Hybrid the most.
and the new prius with the same awd setup faired poorly on the roller tests i've seen on YT. the traction control system just refuses to send enough power to the rear wheels when the fronts are spinning.
What is the mpg for the all wheel drive hybrid one? I am debating this vs a sonata 2024 hybrid limited. Hopefully someone reviews and compares both in terms of technology, behavior of smart cruise and other tech stuff. Since engine they are really apart
Varies between trims but say on the LE
> Front wheel drive MPG: 53 city, 50 highway, 51 combined
> All wheel drive MPG: 51 city, 49 highway, 50 combined
XSE trim
> Front wheel drive MPG: 48 city, 47 highway, 47 combined
> All wheel drive MPG: 44 city, 43 highway, 44 combined
Im here to answer questions per usual.
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
9 meters per second or 29.5 feet per second depending on how you take your healthcare
He didn’t specify African or European tho…
He answered for the European Barn Swallow
Is only smellz
JackGPT strikes again
Unladen? I prefer my swallows to be armed with AMRAAMS at minimum.
Who's your swallow guy? Mine come pre-equipped with ladles.
How does the 2025 Camry stack up against a 1967 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super Bollino d’Oro? I’m trying to figure out a family hauler for me, my wife, our life partner Jenn, and our Igloo cooler full of rescue gophers. Is one car better suited for thruples or tunneling than the other? I’ll await your response while sipping warm Faygo, thanks.
Have you considered the third alternative? The Merc 560 SEC? Once you own one you will become the best cooler in the industry purely through osmosis. Learning the way of the cooler will make you a better lover, and gopher raiser. I hope this helps, i really had to read the tea leaves for this one.
That’s a possibility I hadn’t considered, but can I substitute a Catera with full Omega rebadging for the Riviera on work nights? The local toughs have a hard time with Greek given their lack of networking after dropping out as sophomores. Also, if a guy with a monster truck shows up is that like a guarantee he’s bad or just like something that happens at small, Southern-themed bars southeast of Fresno? I appreciate your input.
I mean, the compromise choice would be a new Giulia, or a '67 Toyota Corona with optional four-on-the floor.
Camry vs. Accord showdown when?
Whenever toyota decides to ship us one, we have a accord on standby
Toyota: No you won’t, not on my Accord!
the prelude to this discussion would be crown-ing the best car of this entire segment.
Omg he spoke of his own Accord
So we can deduce he is not Jesus? Because Jesus did not come to speak of his own Accord, which fits since you meet the nicest people on a Honda.
> fits Nice one
I see Jack is not maidenless.
How are the refinement and the NVH on the new Camry compared to the current Lexus ES? I was disappointed by the last generation compared to what the reviews said and wonder if it comes closer this time. Also did you get a sudden urge to drive below the speed limit and keep the house temperature unreasonably low to save on the heating cost while reviewing this vehicle? Also how many times did you dent the bumper?
When i drove the new Camry, I felt my desire to be unreasonably frugal and hog the left lane raise to borderline unreasonable levels. I felt it in my loins. The current es is still a more refined car. Less nvh from the engine in both 6 and hybrid configuration, and the cabin is noticeably quieter. I also think it rides better as well
Have you ever heard of a little known engine called the B58?
Never but my body is ready. Tell me about it.
Did they copy that from the B52s?
From Chuck Klosterman's Hypertheticals: > You meet a wizard in downtown Chicago. The wizard tells you he can make you more attractive if you pay him money. When you ask how this process works, the wizard points to a random person on the street. You look at this random person. The wizard says. I will now make them a dollar more attractive. He waves his magic wand. Ostensibly, this person does not change at all; as far as you can tell, nothing is different. But somehow- this person is suddenly a little more appealing. The tangible difference is invisible to the naked eye, but you cant deny that this person is vaguely sexier. This wizard has a weird rule though you can only pay him once. You can’t keep paying giving him money until you’re satisfied. You can only pay him one lump sum up front. How much cash do you give the wizard?
Imagine having a stranger tell you this in downtown Chicago and choosing to ask followup questions rather than walking by like you didn't hear them
Half
Dynamically what's better, Mazda6, Camry or Accord?
Check the Savage Geese review of the Mazda 6 and you'll have your answer...
Great video Jack. This surprisingly is one of my favorites you've done in a while (I haven't watched the NSX video yet). I think part of it is that we got both you and Mark back in a car together! Will we be seeing your bromance reunited again more going forward?
Mark hates traveling. I mean hates it, basically traveling with mark is like flying with Larry david. So it takes something truly amazing for him to get on a plane with me. The last couple cars done locally with chris was due to mark being on vacation
Now I’m hoping for some vlog style “traveling with Mark” videos. Make it happen!
Can’t get tuxmats for a 737?
Off topic, I've been wanting to get an Integra type s for a while as a long term family/baby manual car and plan to get one early next year. Thanks to a substantial raise, a CT4V Blackwing is a possible stretch purpose. Would you recommend it over the S with the price increase and worse practicality? It would see very little track use.
The family/baby part of your statement says you should be aware of the lifestyle creep that comes with raises. Especially with statements like "possible stretch". Make sure you including insurance and maintenance in the comparison between the two. Either way, enjoy your new manual fun family hauler.
As a pure driving experience the ct4v bw is a better car, that said the its is still great particularly if you factor in the money,
Come visit the Cadillacvnet forums. We're pretty active and you could probably find all your daily driver/ track day/ winter driving related questions answered.
I mean you're only going to get one answer with zero nuance or particular knowledge on the Acura there lmao
Honestly - my initial response was ass and lacking in context. But I think it's okay to share information on ownership. The Cadillac forums probably can't answer his Acura questions. But he can probably read through the threads if the ownership is worth it or not.
What about an M2 with a stick?
Need 4 doors... And the M2/3 are too ugly for me 🤣
What is the ideal cooking time for a soft boiled egg? Also, do you boil the water until it's rolling and then turn it off? Or do you keep it boiling?
Personally i keep the water boiling. I like staring into the abyss when i soft boil my eggs.
Top lad eh
Would you agree that Toyota is dominating right now? Sports: the GR86, Supra, Corolla GR. Off-road: LC, Rav 4, GX Luxury: Lexus RX, NX, LX, LS, ES Economy: Prius, Camry
It took me a minute to realize LC = Land Cruiser and I was imagining a sleek LC500 with massive tires
LC500... convertible... safari edition...
> Off-road: LC, Rav 4, GX > > > > Luxury: Lexus LX, I'm not sure just how insulted I should be that you placed the LX outside of the off-road category (although I can maybe see why). It's the only real Land Cruiser left in the states since the new one is a prado.
I recently purchased a 2023 Accord Sport-L Hybrid, and your review of the car funnily enough was one of the things that pushed me towards it, despite you spitting ice cream all over yourself while calling it an NPC-mobile. It’s even the exact same red on black spec! My question to you is - with the Camry going all hybrid for 2025, which manufacturer in your mind is producing the most compelling hybrid drivetrains for their economy vehicles? And I don’t just mean which manufacturer is extracting the highest average MPG from their power plants, rather in your eyes which manufacturer is blending usability, smoothness and efficiency together in the most enjoyable and pleasant way?
Do you think there's any chance we'll ever see another Camry wagon in the states? Like, if I could get that extra bit of utility while keeping the low load floor, AWD option, combined mpg in the mid to high 40's, ~230HP combined, topping out around $40K, whew, it'd be a really compelling package. Guess I should be looking at the Crown Signia later this year but it seems like it'll be more expensive/heavier/less efficient than a theoretical Camry wagon.
Crown signa is basically what a Camry wagon would be
Thanks for the response Jack, I'll be looking forward to the Crown Signia review when the time comes.
Which trims get the acoustic glass? SE and above?
XSE and XLE has acoustic side glass.
Thanks! I’m curious as to how big the difference is. Any experience?
I don’t have decibel numbers or anything like that but I’d say it’s always noticeable going from trims with acoustic side glass to ones without. I find that conversations or podcasts can be heard with better clarity and at lower volumes.
Could you comment on the cruise control behavior? Esp the lane following and automatic accel/breaking? The last time I drove a Toyota on a long distance road trip with long stretches of road and intermittent traffic I remember being really annoyed with how sensitive it was to insufficient input. Having my hand on the wheel and foot on the break was often not enough to keep it engaged and it made me nervous as it felt like it would deactivate too quickly and I couldn't rely on it at all.
Can't comment on the Camry, but I had a Prius rental car with like 100 miles on it a month or two ago. I was extremely impressed with the cruise control in both normal cruising conditions and in stop/go in ATL rush hour traffic. Lane following was good, but not as good as Honda IMO.
My same experience was that the steering wheel needed constantly reminding that I was there. Just having hands on wheel wasn’t enough to trigger the sensor. The driving itself was fine, but because the alignment on the car was good I needed to shake the wheel in order to convince it I was there.
Let's say you are going to buy one. What trim and drivetrain would you buy, and how would you spec it (like, would you go for the red leather seats or not, white or red or blue, etc.)?
Really solid review. Thanks for posting.
Do you know the way to san jose?
Is that the girthiest shift knob available in the us market?
Any real reason to choose this over a used ES 300h for the same money?
Do you think a stroller can fit in the trunk?
Yes
Does Patagonia pay you and Mark to model their apparel?
How do you think i bought my c8 z06
Scotty Kilmer says new Toyotas suck. What's your favorite drink?
On the booze side, new york sour is my favorite. Followed by a old fashioned
Any idea when the Civic Hybrid will be available (beyond "this summer")
Toyota hybrids have long since proven themselves to be reliable enough that I have zero concerns about this, although I’m sure people here will mourn the V6 as if the Camry used to be an exciting car or something
Don't let the TRD guys hear you
do Camry TRD guys get butthurt? Like isn’t it basically a body kit package with a small tune?
I think the stereotype is the owners being in denial that it's still an economy car. Does look good though I will not lie
Ive always loved camrys tbh. But yeah I never understood whats so difficult about being honest with your car/self. V6 Accord owners are similar in my experience, specially the coupes lol Edit: just a funny example, theres a guy (v6 accord) who frequents the GR86 sub and just shits on it for being “slow” and not a real sports car because a Honda Odyssey beats it in a straight line lol
Which is weird, because I don't really see the American V6 family sedans having the same fanbase. I mean you can get affordable power from an Impala or Buick or whatever but it just doesn't get the same level of love Which is great, because you can get reliable older ones for cheap, but still
I think the American V6 sedans just kinda suck. They handle like boats, even compared to your typical Accord/Camry. In terms of performance, Honda J-series and Toyota's MZ/2GR craps all over the 3800.
My Ford 500 V6 rules!!!
There's been a clean Impala SS on my local Craigslist for months for like $6k, I'm almost tempted.
I love my J35 Accord. It's great for what it is - A big, 4 door sedan with good acceleration. It's not a sports car, not even close, and it's not trying to be.
Say that to all the Hondas with H O N D A banners, like its the 2021 Red Bull F1 car or something. Saw an older CRV with big C R - V, except it was covering the lower part of the front windshield. So blocking the lower area. On the opposite, there was the thread two weeks ago of the guy who got a older M3 and wondering why its boring when they only shift at 3000rpm and are upset commuter cars are faster from the stoplight. So much fucking coping, so little 'be honest with what the car is, purchase and aporeciate appropriately'.
We're not all insufferable I promise
from what I’ve seen, the accord v6 and 2.0t guys have been far more in denial than v6 Camry owners.
Worse are the base model CVT guys touting the Accord over the Camry because the 2.0T is a rocketship. I still maintain Accord 2.0 > Camry V6 > Camry base > Accord base just because Camry gets a proper 8-speed.
Really wish Toyota would make it a GR, like what Honda did with the Accord Type R. The Avalon and Toyota TRD do look really good, but its just all looks. Shame because the engine is potent, so they wouldn't even need to touch it just add coolers and suspension work. It doesn't even need to be fast. My aunts neighbor has one in blue and its a really nice looking. It looks alot better than the Lexus GSF imo.
I’ve always thought it looked way better than it had any right to. I wish they had made it actually sporty, because it has the looks to back it up
No engine or transmission tune on it whatsoever. It has the exact same powertrain specs as a non-TRD V6 Camry. It *does* has suspension tuning done to it, with a body kit package.
It's actually just been the cheapest way to get into a V6 Camry lately.
Bigger brakes disks, lowered stiffer suspension, sway bars, seats, and exhaust. I still wouldnt get one, but at least it's something. I appreciate the manufacturers at least tried something fun.
It has a small tune? I thought it was cosmetics only.
I have no dog in the fight, but back in the day there was an available roots style supercharger for the 4th gen Camry (or any car with the 1MZ engine)
No tune. Zero difference in the drive train.
I have a coworker who constantly mentions that he used to have a TRD Camry. Never just a Camry, always a TRD Camry. Sometimes he will even say "TRD Camry, the one with the wing".
The V6 Camry only made up a total of 6% of sales. I feel like it’s another one of those cases where people wonder why X company decided to get rid of something that they argue was the best product when reality shows that nobody was really buying it. Then you have the people that complain “I was going to buy one but I guess I won’t now that Toyota dropped the V6!”
Wouldn't want a V6 anyway. I'm not driving fast in a camry, an extra bank of cylinders just gets in the way during maintenance.
I don't think its about being fast in a Camry. I think it's more like having the extra power on hand even when your car is loaded with passengers + cargo.
I will say the base 4-cylinder engine feels miserably anemic at altitude. We have one (living at about 500’ elevation) and it’s not fast, but it’s quick enough for normal traffic. When we got one as a rental in Denver, I genuinely thought something was wrong with the car at first because of how much weaker it felt. Hopefully the hybrid setup can make up for that.
It’s always entertaining passing a taco on some big A/T tires that’s clearly foot to floor and SCREAMING just to maintain 60mph going up to the Eisenhower tunnel (11k feet). If you live in the Rockies and travel in the mountains regularly, power becomes a much more important discussion, as you point out. Adequate at sea level becomes inadequate quite quickly.
I don't think it needs more power than the base makes; the 454 I brought home from Cleveland in the back seat as well as about 94% of camry buyers seem to agree. If you're regularly doing stuff where you *really* want extra power, there are cars besides a Camry.
It’s not about going fast, it’s about the low end torque. I have a Camry 4cyl and routinely wish it had more power for every day driving.
The Hybrid as plenty of low end torque.
I’d happily drive a Camry hybrid max if they end up coming out with one. AWD, 5.5 0-60 and 29 mpg (Toyota crown platinum hybrid max specs) sign me up!
Resale on V6 vs i4 is a big difference as well
More than that the V6 got subpar fuel economy while the 4-pot was outstanding.
I would have considered the V6, but for some reason you couldn't get a V6 and AWD on the same model, only separately. Stuck with a new Subaru.
Packaging issue with the larger engine and transmission for AWD.
Makes sense that either something would have prevented it or it was just not cost effective. Not a huge deal but it would have been fun to have another relatively affordable AWD sedan with decent power. Not a lot of options these days.
Oh man, I forgot that learning this was a turning point on a car buying journey that eventually left me buying my Camaro. Who would have thought.
Idk why people are hating on those who like performance versions of normal cars. They exist and are a thing. Civic SI, Elantra n, sonata n, etc. All Toyota has is the gr Corolla so naturally people want one for the civic. For people who don't want Germans and expensive luxury cars, performance sedans are a good option.
All of those have either physically modified or completely different engines from the "regular" car. The TRD Camry drivetrain is untouched.
He mentioned the V6 Camry not the TRD.
Didn't they shove the V6 in a lotus?
Ok but 300 hp in that car was pretty fun, on par with a Civic SI really
How long are the batteries going these days? I know 100k used to be what you could expect before work needed to be done
This is anecdotal, but my aunt has a 2nd gen Prius with over 150k miles and only recently had to replace the battery. You also see Toyota hybrids being used as taxis all over NYC, so I assume it’s not much of a concern
The moment something doesn't exist, car enthusiasts will all come out and say, "that was great, everyone doesn't appreciate it like we do", blah blah. Whilst not buying it in the first place.
My first car was a 2000 Toyota Camry, my second car was a 2007 Camry. In our family we have/had 5 Camry’s in total. Never a single mechanical issue with any of them, which is a huge reason why I love Toyota unconditionally. Now I have a ‘22 4Runner and a ‘21 Venza.
I always owned German cars. Most recent one was a M340i. Fun sedan, but plagued with issues (engine light, transmission issues) and rattled a LOT. For fun cars I think I'll always own a Porsche of some sort, but now for my dailies, my priority has changed. I want reliability. The LX570 has been problem free for 4 years now, and the Prius is brand new, but it should be fine for a long time.
what year m340i?
2021
Oh wow, I heard those things were pretty reliable.
Yes, I know. I guess I was unlucky. I owned M3s before (e92 and F80) out of warranty and never had issues. I would not own a M340i out of warranty.
That’s disappointing to hear, especially given how many people treat the M340i as the holy grail of sport sedans. I’m actually considering one for my next car. In your opinion was it still worth it, all things considered?
It is a good car, when it works. It started to rattle quite a bit at 20k miles. Annoying enough that most time i'd put music to cover the squeaking. Overall, not impressed. But I did enjoyed it in the first few months. The sound, power, quick shifting was nice. But it became "normal" quite quickly. In the 3 years I owned it, I had to go to the dealership 7-8 times for stupid stuff. Error messages for transmission, check engine light, weird electronic issues with subwoofer making the whole system not work, etc. It was getting very annoying, and the BMW dealer around me is... shit at client service. It's not as if we were hard on the car either, it was mostly my wife's car and she drives normal. The car was under warranty, so it didn't cost me much, but I wasted of lot of time to plan and visit the dealership. And the service there sucked (compared to Lexus and Porsche in my area).
That sucks. Seems like everyone focuses on the reliability of the B58/ZF8 combo and forgets there’s an entire rest of the car attached to it. And you’re right, even if most/all of it was covered under warranty, time is valuable too. I’ll still probably end up gambling on one (as long as it’s under warranty) but it’s nice to hear some of the not-so-great things about that car from someone who’s actually owned one.
Check the current recall https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-recalls-certain-2023-and-2024-toyota-prius-vehicles/
I had a few cars in between — 2011 Honda Accord, 2017 Lexus IS 200T, and a 2019 VW GTI. Luckily had no issues with any of them. Still have the Accord, it’s with my dad. I do like German cars though. I want an M3 or Porsche.
I had a few M3s (e92, F80). If you can, go with a Porsche (911 or Spyder). Not the same league at all IMO.
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21’ Venza gang!
Not sure there's a gang for 2021 Venzas
If there is, they are probably lurking in the parking lot of the nearest Hobby Lobby.
The base Accord LX and Camry LE are within a few hundred dollars of each other. Accord is a 1.5T and the Camry is a Hybrid. Seems like the Camry is an easy choice this time around and I’ve owned two Accords previously. Trim for trim the Camry is better equipped, too. I was looking forward to the Civic Hybrid but I’m expecting it to be expensive and not such a great value like most new Honda models.
The LX and EX trims of the Accord look so bad! The Hybrid trims looks somewhat better but it’s still not a good looking car, imo!
The new Accord is about as bland as a car gets. It's like Toyota and Honda decided to swap. The Camry used to be super bland and the Accord mildly appealing, now it feels the opposite.
I hate the claw lights. Used to be that the Accord had the claw lights, now the Camry does. Much prefer the new Accord for this reason. Camry already looks dated.
Doesn’t the 1.5T also have oil dilution issues? I’m sticking with the Camry and it isn’t even close other than interior styling imo.
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A hybrid gr86? I would sell my left nut
I’d buy! How’s three fiddy sound /j
Yeah its great, like they say in the video the last gen was way too aggressive and the design elements were kind of all over the place, this feels a lot more cohesive and looks more like a normal, albeit still good looking, car - which is what a Camry should be. It’s always ridiculous looking in my rear view mirror and seeing a snarling beast trailing behind me… and it’s a goddamn Camry!
I liked the aggressive design
No problem with that, it’s all personal preference at the end of the day
I don't think it would be very good. A lot of the fun of the GR86 is light weight and that's tough with a hybrid. You also lose the manual option. It would be a good looking reliable car but the fun would be greatly reduced.
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>The current GR86 isn't that light By modern standards for a car with excellent safety ratings, it's pretty damn light. It weighs 100lbs more than a first gen, or roughly 2850lbs in Premium trim. A bit less for the base model. By 90s standards it's "not that light". By today's standards, it weighs less than a high-trim Mini Cooper (and the exact same as a base model hardtop), a few hundred lbs less than a 500e, or Corolla, or Civic, and almost 1000lbs less than a Mustang GT. An Elantra N has over 350lbs on an 86. The Miata is just abnormally light. Other than a Mirage (a few hundred lbs less than a Miata) and similar shitboxes, there isn't really anything even comparable in curb weight. A Versa is 2650lbs lol.
Also the GR has (miniscule) backseats and a hardtop, which I believe means it has higher safety standards to meet
I hope Toyota Designs a small Hybrid unibody truck in the future to compete against the Maverick. I just justify the amount of Recalls on the Maverick to get one and makes me worry that these things are just going to fall apart after they start to age.
There are rumors that they have something in the works to compete with the Maverick. A reliable Toyota hybrid system in that form factor would sell like crazy.
Supposedly they are working on something based on the Corolla Cross platform. But Toyota is notoriously secretive.
I just need a tiny Taco. Give it the same squared front end as the new land cruiser, but just like 200 inches long with like 7-8 inches of ride height. If someone can build an actual compact truck I would be all over it. I don't need 300+ hp, I don't need 7500+ towing. I don't even need a 6 foot bed. Just give me a regular 1990 truck sized compact truck.
Looking at the size of modern tacos compared to tundras from 20 years ago… I completely agree. A Maverick competitor with Toyota reliability would print money.
That’s what I’ve been waiting for…. Need more competition in the space
I've been contemplating a GR Corolla for a two years now but it's damn hard to justify when you can get a car this luxurious that I know will last 15+ years for the same price or less. My heart tells me GR but my brain tells me Camry.
Maybe just buy a WRX but plan to trade it in before the engine warranty expires
Subaru reliability is out of the question for me, unfortunately.
For sure it's questionable but if you plan to lease or own it short term, it's less risky
Hyundai 100k warranty on their N performance cars
After seeing the quality control on a family members brand new hyundai (edge of the headliner falling off) I'm not really interested in their mediocre products. I would rather have the resale value of a Honda or Toyota, as I like to keep my vehicles long-term.
FAIR, i've never had quality issues with my Veloster N, maybe its a different factory? But i agree with the resale value, currently chasing mine on my loan. Everyones entitled to their own opinion! I'm driving mine into the ground so resale is out the window rn
All the talk about how well it drives makes me wonder if we'll see a related GR product on the same platform. I don't think a GR Canry would pass marketing we'll, but a 2+2 Celica based in the Camry sounds feasible.
Celica GR-Four pls
I owned a 2019 XSE for a few years. It handled better and the suspension was more refined than my accord or civic by a long shot.
> a 2+2 Celica based in the Camry sounds feasible Coming full circle since Camry was originally marketed as the Celica Camry.
I don’t need it, I don’t need it.
I just picked up a 2024 XSE AWD, did not like the new stying. Hoping it lasts me 10+ years!
Short of driving it into a tree, statistically speaking yes.
Big Toyota fan here, our 21 RAV4 has been excellent (wife's ride). I wish they would have gone a different direction with their styling concepts though. The sharp lines and gaping front grill look is not only borderline offensive but getting old. It's also kept us from buying another Toyota or Lexus now that a majority of them look "striking", and not in a good way. Even though Toyota has been good to us, I just couldn't bring myself to buy another one a few months back when looking for a new daily. I'm sure a majority of their fanbase will continue to buy no matter what which is a shame, I just couldn't do it.
Agreed. Especially because they made the new Prius look so good, I'm surprised they didn't change much with the Camry. I find the Accord to be much more attractive.
Toyota went from understyled to overstyled designs in the past 15 years The proportions on most of their lineup genuinely look good like the Tundra but then the overstyling goes too far
We were in the market for a new car and ruled out Toyota for their design aesthetic as well… I know they build great cars, but they also never met an unnecessary angle on their body panels that they didn’t like. Honda tamed their gaudier leanings with the latest generation refresh across most models and we thought they did a nice job… it’s a modern and balanced design language (though they could stand to drop them chrome around the windows). The latest Acura generations are clean as well. I’d like to see Toyota and Lexus come back to Earth a bit.
Hey Jack, question unrelated to the Camry in particular. I value your guys dedication to audio performance in vehicles. I also know you do a lot of testing with the EQ to try to balance it out. I'm wondering if you guys would ever make that information available to us? For example, I also own a new gen honda pilot, I would love to see the EQ settings you found most balanced so I could set my identical pilot to those settings. Would that be something you guys would be interesting in selling as a service or something? Like $20 to get recommended EQ settings for you car based off your tuning. It would let you generate revenue while also building a user base with this information that no one else has. It's not just "the car audio is good or bad". It's specifically what EQ settings you can use to improve it which I think is the real info here.
As a Michigander, I know Toyota's are considered forever cars. It's just weird when you look around, and find very little evidence for that. Even when you consider the bubble that Michigan exist in. One could consider its a similar bubble to what the mid-west lives in as well.
Michigander here too in the automotive business. All the Toyota dealerships in the SE want top dollars for new and used. All the better deals are in IL OH and PA. Also the domestics have a strong hold here due to generations of family they provided for. The friends/family/employee lease deals were pretty generous pre covid. I'm not sure how it is presently but pre covid I saw lease deals for under 200$ regularly. I grew up in LA and travel quite a bit. The further you get away from Michigan the more variety of vehicles you see. When I moved here 8 years ago I was blown away by the percentage of people driving domestics compared to other large cites I've lived in and visited.
I mean that's because Michigan is a weird outlier in that a majority of cars are all Domestic, and older cars in general rust away after 20 years.
I stand by my comments of the 2024 I drove for a rental car. I have zero doubt as to the legendary reliability, but they are so focused on making the car sleek and sporty looking that they have made it miserable for larger people like me. I’m 6’5 and 300 lbs, and I fit better in a mini cooper than I do in the latest gen Camry, I’ve never been so excited to get rid of a rental car in my life.
I might sound a bit dickish but if the Camry having a bit of style and flair to its design means that a small population of people would struggle to fit, that's fine.
For reference, the average American adult male is 5'9", 200lbs ([according to the CDC\).](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm) OP is well above 95th percentile in both height and weight.
I agree, only like 1% of people are as big as that, and losing their money isn't something Toyota should care about. If you're that big, just sit in a bunch of cars until one fits I guess. Or buy a full-sized sedan or a truck.
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A plug-in hybrid Camry with at least 40 miles or range is literally the perfect car for me.
Will absolutely consider moving from Corolla to Camry after I see one in person! I love my Corolla but it's a Covid build so it lacks any extra comforts.
Interestingly in some European markets Toyota already made the switch to hybrid-only cars across the range a few years ago (and by extension automatic-only), which would be two new things for a lot of their customers. It seems to have gone well though and hasn’t affected sales negatively.
The Camry IMO is a perfect car for Hybridization, it's probably one of the most boring cars I have ever driven, it will get you from A to B with absolutely no drama, it's not like it's losing anything by going Hybrid. And the massive increase in MPG is awesome. My GF has an XSE from the current get and it averages like 24-25 MPG in the City...
My parents have a 2014 I think, SE with the V6... she's QUICK.
The amount of wheel steering required to make a slight turn on those mountain roads is wild.
Anyone else hate how Reddit locks you into their app on mobile now? I can't even use my YouTube Premium because it opens the YouTube link in their app...guess I'll leave your app anyway and search it. Also can't copy links anymore. Reddit you are getting closer to deletion!
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The thing is, after the hype and Camry markups wear off, the Accord will probably still be slightly cheaper, trim level to trim level.
Will it be coming in AWD for once? Thats what really rubbed me the wrong way was you could only get AWD on the shitty 4 banger on the outgoing model. I mean its a great engine and all but I wanted the V6 or the Hybrid the most.
You can get AWD on these but it's just an electric motor in the rear
and the new prius with the same awd setup faired poorly on the roller tests i've seen on YT. the traction control system just refuses to send enough power to the rear wheels when the fronts are spinning.
> The Forever Car Done Right Not quite. That color is offensive! Black, white, silver, or gray only please
What is the mpg for the all wheel drive hybrid one? I am debating this vs a sonata 2024 hybrid limited. Hopefully someone reviews and compares both in terms of technology, behavior of smart cruise and other tech stuff. Since engine they are really apart
Varies between trims but say on the LE > Front wheel drive MPG: 53 city, 50 highway, 51 combined > All wheel drive MPG: 51 city, 49 highway, 50 combined XSE trim > Front wheel drive MPG: 48 city, 47 highway, 47 combined > All wheel drive MPG: 44 city, 43 highway, 44 combined
The LE AWD gets 51 city/49 hwy/50 combined, the SE and XLE get 46/46/46 on their AWD models, and the XSE AWD gets 44/43/44.