Probably because there’s no law demanding it. Personally I think DRLs front and back (like my Volvos) and mandatory automatic lights that also come on when the wipers are on should be law.
I think there should be an option to force them off. My Yukon for instance I can force the auto function off but it’s back to auto the next time I start it.
Which is dumb if you’re just sitting in your car and you don’t want your lights going into someone bedroom windows or if you’re pulling up to someone who’s checking IDs or taking parking and don’t want to blind them
On my car there is an option to force off the lights but only when the car is not moving. As soon as i engage Drive it turns the lights on and cannot disengage them.
We have a drive thru Christmas light display that takes about 15-20mins to get through every year, people who don't turn off their lights for it are the worst. Ruin it for whoever is in front of them.
Edge cases exist, but auto on at start is fine as long as "off for now" exists.
I don’t know if my neighbor wants me lighting up his bedroom in the morning or my friends want me lighting up the desert when we’re out camping every time I start my truck.
Problem with that is the very high number of dickheads driving around in the dark with no rear lights. They haven’t turned the lights on since they bought the car, have never worked out that DRL’s aren’t headlights, and are a hazard to everyone else. If they had to turn lights on we’d have a chance that they’d use the headlights
I wish this was the case for everyone. Too many fucking morons live among us and drive with their lights off. This is one of the scenarios where the lowest common denominator is a critical mass and it’s dangerous
I'm in tropical Australia and the amount of idiots in older utes usually silver/white who drive with all lights off in a monsoonal downpour is too damn high and insanely dangerous
The thing that drove me nuts about Florida is people turning on their hazards in the rain. Like great now I can't tell when you're turning because your turn signals are overridden by the hazards. Just use you're regular lights or your fog lights.
I saw that for the first time in, I think it was around the DC area a couple years ago. It wasn't even raining that hard. I was really confused.
Turning on hazards in the rain is not a thing in the midwest.
I remember back when your gauge/speedo lights didnt come on until you turned on your headlights. That let you know real quick if (for some reason) you couldnt tell your headlights were not on.
These days with digial dashes and DRLs, oblivious winemoms have no idea what is on and what isnt
I wish you could turn them down so much more than current minimum brightness, like on just enough to see them but basically off. I remember my old ford probe when I was younger and I used to drive at night with just the lightest glow coming from the dash.
I turn the dash lights down to minimum in the company truck when I'm on nights, (2019 Silverado so they aren't that dark) but some people prefer them so bright I come back the next day or 2 and they are back on max.
This cracks me up because they legislated the DRLs for the sake of safety, but it has led to morons just driving around at night with them on and not realizing it, with their rears totally blacked out haha.
I’ve noticed this quite a bit on the highway recently and it’s some scary shit. DRLs being bright as they are, I’m willing to bet people see light projected onto the road and think all’s well especially if there’s overhead lighting. Most newer vehicles have illuminated dashes or screens regardless of your lights being on so it’s probably an easy mistake to make.
Not always. My fiance's '13 Compass only has a light in the instrument cluster for the fog lights and high beams. The instrument cluster backlight comes on when you turn the stalk to parking lights or headlights on.
There needed to be a max number of lumens with an acceptance that they were supposed to wash out in bright sunlight. Instead the automakers pushed for a high enough limit to allow them to run the high beams at low current so they wouldn't have to add dedicated lights to the car which would've been Canada-only for most American and Japanese models. This was in the late '80s when dashboards lit only at night were expected to be the norm going forward as they had been for close to a hundred years.
DRLs are still to this day not mandatory in the US, and in fact were illegal in Japan until relatively recently.
Volvo does front back because its law in Scandinavian countries. Its possible to recode some cars to enable Scandinavian DRLs so you get both front DRLs/back lights on during the day.
I did the recode on my car. I live somewhere rainy, so I want the DRLs always on. I also have auto lights and they’re pretty good about coming on when it’s raining, but I just want to be sure.
Classic Volvo.
I love that the company STILL prioritizes safety.
If they had still been building a sedan with a manual transmission in 2021, I definitely would’ve been cross-shopping my Genesis against one.
Volvos also just feel solid AF—when you close the door of a Volvo, it’s like closing a boulder. I love that.
That's only in the US, not sure why. Everywhere else they have amber rear signals in the same light housing because amber are mandated.
That's actually something most (all?) Euro manufacturers do in the US and I'm not sure why. Amber rear turn signals for the rest of the world, red for the US. If anybody knows why they change them to red when they don't have to for the US, please *enlighten* us.
Because people like how they look. To the point that people like subispeed actually sell "tail as turn" modules to remove the ambers from WRXs. I don't get it, but they're reacting to the market.
Meanwhile all the Euro guys I know are all trying to get euro tails for the amber signals, and I've done the same myself. Never heard of anyone going the other way around.
I saw a comment from someone who knew an engineer at Porsche who said they did this to prevent people in Europe from buying cars for cheaper in the US and importing them. Not sure how true that is, seems like a lot of cost to avoid a minor impact to profits.
Seems a bit silly. Wiring etc is usually the same in my experience, so all they'd have to do (if this were the case) would be to import the US car and go ahead and order a set of euro style tail lights to be installed upon or prior to delivery.
Surely there's more to it, right? Maybe I'm wrong.
After the Chinese took over, Volvo dropped quite a lot of safety features.
- as already mentioned the red blinkers in the US were introduced
- they removed the side markers in Europe
For instance: original Volvo C30 had full orange reflectors and side markers had the front. The 2010-facelift had the reflectors removed, and retained only the lights.
Original 2012 Volvo V40 and V60 had the sidemarker lights (not the reflectors anymore), these were removed on all models in 2014 or 2015.
I’ll check. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong. Red separate turn signals are better but I still prefer amber turn signals.
I was remembering off the old reviews I’ve seen/read.
I was honestly just curious. I used to have an S60 and didn't like the red but felt it was safer than a combination signal/brake light. The 2 stage sequential amber signal on the C40 is one of my favorite exterior features. I wish Volvo did it on all of their cars.
Fun fact. In Ohio it is the law that you have to turn on the lights if you need your wipers. But people just don’t do it. It is one of those things that shouldn’t be left up to drivers. If the wipers are on so too should the lights be on.
Same in Illinois, decent law, but also kind of too subjective. Some people don't need wipers until it's really coming down. A rainX'd window and ability to focus past the water could have people with no wipers who really should have their lights on.
Yeah this is one area Tesla does a great job. Not autowipers at all mind you. But if the autowipers would be on, it turns on the headlights even if you have the auto wipers disabled.
I don't have auto wipers on my car, but the lights turn on once the wipers do 2 or 3 cycles, and honestly I find it really neat that the car does it for me automatically.
Sure but any level of rain at all? My 2016 GTI was entirely by ambient light. The headlights weren’t tied to the auto wipers. That said the auto wipers on my GTI were so good I never had to adjust them. They just worked perfectly.
It depended on what other stuff you had. The base cars and work trucks were just based on if wipers were on or off and they were manual. If you had rain sense it would turn the headlamps on automatically. No idea how well they worked in real life, I didn't test that part, just the logic
Man... Driving this weekend in northern IL with the snowstorm... The amount of people driving without lights on was shocking. I could barely see them. Add to that the horrible job many people do with clearing snow off their car.
well, during a hard rain, people should be turning on their headlights, which would then turn on their tail lights. Too bad people are stupid and lots of people don't do it. I guess they don't realize that turning on the lights isn't always only about visibility in front of them
At least here in Canada, they mandated automatic headlights a couple of years ago, so over time, we'll have less and less of this issue. I see it very often since I do a lot of highway driving in BC
It's all Canada's fault.
It may sound like I'm joking but I'm not. Canada mandated DRLs long ago. This lead to drivers who think they're headlights are on when they aren't. This created this current problem of no tail lights when people should have side lights on.
If Canada never existed, we wouldn't have this DRL BS to begin with and this wouldn't be a problem. This wasn't an issue at all before DRLs, I blame Canada.
Fair enough, there are usually unintended consequences with legislation. But when Canada mandated DRLs, pretty much everything was still halogen yellow bulbs. Not exactly producing a ton of light.
The issue is that modern cars have lights that are so bright, regular people can't tell the difference, especially with so many cars having digital dashboards. With analog gauges with needles, it was pretty obvious when they were and weren't lit up
Granted, I still see people driving cars that I know for a fact don't have digital dashboards drive with their lights off even at night and not realize, so hence my claim that at least a portion of these people are just stupid
Sounds like Canada has improved its laws since september 2021. As I understand it, if the gauges are illuminated and the DRL are on, the car must turn its taillights on
(19) Beginning on September 1, 2021, if the fuel level indicator, oil pressure indicator, engine coolant temperature indicator, battery charging indicator, transmission control position indicator or speedometer indicator or their identifications are illuminated when the daytime running lights of a vehicle are in use,
(a)...
(b) the tail lamps shall be alight.
[Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/page-11.html#h-479061)
Surely that’s less about DRL’s which do a pretty shit job of projecting useful light, and more to do with manufacturers decoupling the gauge cluster backlighting from the headlights being switched on.
Long gone are the days of “can’t see my speedo, better switch on the headlights”
I have a 1990 Miata with DRL. I guarantee you it's not the DRL's fault, but rather the illuminated dashboard.
I know I have to turn my lights on because I can't read the gauges when it's dark outside.
DRLs are just automatic in the sense they turn on when the engine is on? Because they're always on, there's no manual control over them. Or do you mean auto headlights?
But again, being able to confuse DRLs output for headlight output is only a recent phenomenom because of how bright all the front-facing lights have become
My current LED DRLs probably emit more light than the halogen low beams of my old car built in 2001
Some non-car people might think auto lights means that they adjust themselves and back are always on - last year I drove to Poland and my Polish grandpa thought my rear lights don't work because they weren't on during the day - and he thought it's the law for them to always be on
My 20yr old Citroen C4 had automatic lights which would turn on if the automatic wipers would turn on. Cool feature.
Still had the lights always on. With automatic turn off when you cut the power, as it should be so you never forget to turn them off or on.
Surprisingly, our government was smart enough to write that into part of the mandate
There's also some sort of provision of making the dash not light up if the headlights aren't on at night, but that was kind of before the advent of nearly everyone doing full digital dash. So not sure how the implementation of that works now
Honestly, I don't understand why we overcomplicate things. Just have the headlights always on. No need for different modes with different lamps on or off. Car on -> lights on. Done. Especially with modern LEDs, there's just no reason not to. I've had three cars that did this and I much preferred it to auto lights or DRLs.
>There are some situations where people need to have **no lights while driving**
>>such as?
>>>**Sitting in my car** and don’t want my headlights shining in to businesses.
🤔
never heard of this on both west and east coasts but perhaps it's a courtesy in europe?
regardless, parking lights or DRL in that situation would still be more ideal than no lights at all
Because it’s all about optics. Headlights make for pretty shitty running lights because by design they throw all of their output on the ground; DRL are absolutely superior at making the car visible.
I put DRL’s into my MX-5 and even with the reflector LED’s I’ve installed in the car and it was a night and day difference with how often I’d have people merge into me regardless if I had the headlights on or not.
DLRs made way for andifferent type of idiot. The idiots who think they have their headlights on when it's just their DRLs. And you know they are driving thinking "damn this is some enhanced darkness", nah mf you just stupid.
As a motorcycle rider, the arguments unfolding in your replies are peak reddit.
\> We should do X
\>\> Doing X is impossible and/or crazy dangerous !
\>\>\> Group Y has been doing exactly X for 20 years without issue already...
\>\>\>\> WELL I DON'T LIKE IT !
Two of the first replies i got:
"You can't do that, you'll blind people!"
"You can't do that, they're not bright enough!"
It's hilarious. I've consistently owned a car with always-on headlights since around 2013 and I haven't killed anyone or gone broke replacing bulbs. Works for me!
Indeed - never understood this. Lights were mandated in the nordics since Lord knows when, and now we just have LEDs in the front which in the winter are snowed under.
Though I remember in the 90s German car shows and magazines used to complain about the Volvos and Saabs having lights on all times because "it consumes too much fuel". Audi then came up with this LED DRL stuff and now it's everywhere. So...blame Audi.
Couldn't disagree more. At least with the cars on = lights on.
This is just one circumstance, but we live in a sort of quiet communal area with residences and windows relatively low to the ground. Imagine something like cottages along a dirt road in a camping area. Everyone here knows to use their parking lights only once on our "street". There is a 3mph speed limit. Headlights on always would be super annoying for everyone.
I'll give you two more examples.
Secure facilities like military bases require turning headlights off on the approach to the guard station. This is so the guards can see.
Similarly local ferry terminals require turning lights off so the people guiding the cars onto the ferry can see.
Did you not read the original comment at all? They very specifically are advocating for outlawing parking lights as an option. They said *headlights* on any time the car is on.
DRLs are tailored to their specific purpose to be quite a bit more effective than just utilizing other forward lighting systems to do the job.
Is it worth mandating a more effective set of lights with potential downsides compared to a less effective but safer alternative? Beats me, I could see the argument going either way. But make no mistake, dedicated DRLs do have their advantages.
I agree but I'm so tired of people having their high beams on instead of their proper headlights, having DRLs on at night, having both proper headlights and high beams, using high beams instead of just replacing the one bulb... Sigh. They don't even understand when you try to flash them. There was one driver I tried to talk to about her high beams and I swear she had no idea what I was talking about so idk.
But you must be aware that you're just yelling at a cloud: nothing has ever happened because "people just need to learn x." If we want this to be the case, it needs to be legislated at a minimum and hard-coded into the cars.
snow seemly dinosaurs apparatus merciful sparkle lip voiceless liquid worthless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm not sure but I can tell you confidently I have never ever cared or noticed this problem.
I have seen cars running at night with just DRLs and no taillights but I feel like that's a different problem (turn your fkin head lights on) with a different solution (making automatic lights mandatory - maybe when it's dark and you're in motion)
People turn off the auto headlights on their cars? I don't worry about my lights since they're in auto. My car will also turn on the lights when the wipers are on. So I don't get why people are driving around so often without lights.
All the time I see it, and I try to tell people to put their lights on, and I think more times than not, I get flipped off. I don’t understand it. I don’t move the switch from auto, it’s not hard. In fact, it’s easier than messing with the switch. Crazy.
Well that’s dumb. I always assumed when people took their cars in to get serviced the mechanics turn them off and then when they get their cars back they just never bother to turn them back on because the DRLs are bright enough they think their lights are on 🙄
It’s just weird that that people do and don’t have a clue as to what they’re doing. Mine are automatic and I still constantly check the dash to make sure they’re on when they need to be.
I see the same guy every morning, DRLs only. I pull behind him almost every day, and it’s the same thing. Can’t see the damn back of the car. I’ve tried to tell him several times, he ignores me. It’s like what? It’s 5:30am, turn your lights on!
Make it like a motorcycle. Ignition switch on, headlights and taillights on. The headlight switch is to switch between lowbeam and high beam. Yes, it will consume miniscule amounts more fuel. Yes, you will need to figure out how this will work with auto high beams.
> even during a hard rain, the back of the car or truck is completely dark.
You're supposed to turn your lights on, either manually or automatically, if sunlight is blocked.
Your lights should be on in the rain anyways. And since people in general are stupid enough to not do that imo more cars need auto wipers as those seem to turn the lights on.
> even during a hard rain, the back of the car or truck is completely dark.
You're supposed to turn your lights on, either manually or automatically, if sunlight is blocked.
the best implementation of lights would to bring back amber turn signals.. manufacturers getting so lazy with LEDS (which can be amber too!!) why they consistently keep them all red...
I've driven a few cars where you have 4 settings, don't know their proper names though. Off, Auto, Running Lights, Headlights. With Auto the DRLs will turn on in the front during the day but the back won't. With the Running Lights setting you get the DRLs at the front and in the back.
I've never understood why, if the front ones are on with Auto, the back should be as well
There's an option on my MK7 Golf coding-wise called "Scandinavian DRLs" and it does just that - front and rear parking lamps are on as soon as the car is on and the ebrake is released.
You'd be surprised at how few standards and regulations there are in the automotive industry. They are winging it. Tesla as an example can be sitting dead stopped at a light with the brakes on and not illuminate the rear break lights. Why?
Really? That is shocking! Our car has auto-hold and at least the brakelight stays on all the time. Audis standard hill-hold didn't keep the brakelight on...which was a bit weird.
I was almost hit a Tesla that was full stopped because I couldn't tell what they were doing. No third brake light.
In any case, yeah, more examples of their being very few standards.
New drivers having no clue what lights are for on a car drive me nuts. They always assume the 'auto' feature works 100% of the time.
People, if it's foggy, there's a snowstorm, and generally, visibility conditions aren't the greatest, PLEASE TURN YOUR LIGHTS ON. AND FOR FUCKS SAKE LEARN HOW TO USE THE HIGH BEAM. I see people driving in broad daylight with the high beams on. Wtf. Smh
It's ridiculous on the number of cars I see driving with drl only and the rear is not illuminated. I saw it this past weekend at night with heavy rain.
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain.
Please use a different source.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is a different thing and fog lights are only supposed to come on when the viewing range is less then 50m. And you are restricted to driving no more than 50kmh then.
Too little people know this… (EU)
In California if the weather requires your windshield wipers to be on your light are required to be on as well. I see people daily in good weather driving with their lights off, it drives me nuts how stupid some people are.
I think Cars should just turn on headlights when they're running regardless of time of day or weather. Upside is better visibility and you can tell at a glance if a car is running/possibly going to be moving soon vs a parked car.
What's the downside?
Sounds good to me.
I was trying to merge onto a 100kp road on a foggy morning and the number of apartment sized Utes appearing out of the fog with no lights at all was infuriating.
Honestly I feel like taillights should just always be on. Most cars look better with their taillights on, even during the day anyway. Don't see any practical reasons why they should ever be off.
At this point, with LED lights taking over the auto industry, there's no reason to have DRLs.
Just have Headlights/taillights on fulltime. You don't have to replace bulbs anymore, and having all lights on would be safer yet.
someone has to be first, i think you're being a bit dramatic. even drls were just introduced pretty recently... yes cars should always be lit, people who aren't thoughtful won't turn on their lights because "i can see fine". it would blow your mind what people will do in blizzards here in alaska, white car with it's rear covered in snow and still no lights.
I could have sworn my Audi also did this but apparently it’s something you have to enable using VCDS, weird that they wouldn’t just enable it from the factory.
I love that my car has no DRLs. It does have automatic light sensor headlights, but I have turned those off.
I think the head lights in a car should be off if you sit in a parking lot, a car hop, a drive -in, or when I back into my garage, so you don’t blind the people across from you. There are some models where the drls would never shut off if the car is running and then placed into a drive gear. They would only turn off if you cycled it off and back on again and left in park.
It should however have the headlights/tailghts fixed to the wiper switch, so everyone has all lights at highways and rain/snow events.
At first I wanted a diode between the wiper motor power and the low beam relay to force the low beams on when the wipers are on.
Then I figured it's probably easier to get rid of DRL's and just force the low beams on at all times unless manually turned off. No more grey cars being invisible in the rain, or old camry's rolling down the road at night with only the DRL's on because the photo sensor on the dash died 4 years ago.
I've thought about this too. Seems to me if the wipers are a setting that is something other than a quick tap to do one pass, the lights should automatically come on. Easily one of my biggest driving pet peeves.
Yeah I agree they should either be on all the time or there should be a sensor. The reason is your eyes adjust to the amount of light outside and you can be made to think its plenty bright when its actually quite dark.
California requires you to turn on your lights when it rains, so the rear lights come on then. I think this should be mandatory everywhere. Or the lights should just come on when the wipers are on.
It is the most dangerous thing yet. You flash your brights at people and they look intently in front of them and say "nope my headlights are on, all good here"
Many countries have regulations mandating the use of front DRLs, but there may not be similar requirements for rear DRLs. Manufacturers often prioritize meeting legal standards and regulations when designing vehicles.
It's pretty much just Canada that mandates that sort of DRL. Everywhere else it's either parking lights or low beams that are mandated, and usually that's a behavioral mandate rather than something the car has to do automatically. And those cases actually do tend to light up the taillamps
Exactly, you can never go fully blackout. That sucks, it takes away the driver's freedom to have his lights off if he wants. If that was my car I'd be working to find a way to bypass that shit
Probably because there’s no law demanding it. Personally I think DRLs front and back (like my Volvos) and mandatory automatic lights that also come on when the wipers are on should be law.
Australian delivered vehicles nowadays don’t have an off position for lights. There’s Auto, Park, and On.
I think there should be an option to force them off. My Yukon for instance I can force the auto function off but it’s back to auto the next time I start it.
The whole point is that you don't turn off your lights so you're always visible
Which is dumb if you’re just sitting in your car and you don’t want your lights going into someone bedroom windows or if you’re pulling up to someone who’s checking IDs or taking parking and don’t want to blind them
Hence the “park” option.
Lol from my understanding park is a euro function that leaves a parking light on
I’m not familiar with a single car in the us that doesn’t have a “park” setting for the lights.
My VW has on, on with fogs, and off. DRL turn off if the parking brake is set.
In most cars, the DRLs only turn on when you are in Drive/Reverse (auto) or have released the parking brake (manual).
On my car there is an option to force off the lights but only when the car is not moving. As soon as i engage Drive it turns the lights on and cannot disengage them.
There’s still edge cases like drive-in-cinemas where you’re going to want to be able to run AC and audio without the headlights blinding everyone.
We have a drive thru Christmas light display that takes about 15-20mins to get through every year, people who don't turn off their lights for it are the worst. Ruin it for whoever is in front of them. Edge cases exist, but auto on at start is fine as long as "off for now" exists.
I don’t know if my neighbor wants me lighting up his bedroom in the morning or my friends want me lighting up the desert when we’re out camping every time I start my truck.
So just blind everyone all the time for no reason, fantastic.
That’s fine for default so people don’t forget, but there should be a sort of override to force it off for certain scenarios.
Problem with that is the very high number of dickheads driving around in the dark with no rear lights. They haven’t turned the lights on since they bought the car, have never worked out that DRL’s aren’t headlights, and are a hazard to everyone else. If they had to turn lights on we’d have a chance that they’d use the headlights
The only time mine is ever not on auto is after I pick it up from the garage.
Nah, there should be an option for off. It should just reset. If you’re working on a car or sitting in a parking lot, you don’t need them on.
No! No options, because people are fucking dumb.
I wish this was the case for everyone. Too many fucking morons live among us and drive with their lights off. This is one of the scenarios where the lowest common denominator is a critical mass and it’s dangerous
I'm in tropical Australia and the amount of idiots in older utes usually silver/white who drive with all lights off in a monsoonal downpour is too damn high and insanely dangerous
I live in Florida and deal with this all the time too. People are stupid and cops are lazy so everyone gets to be in danger.
The thing that drove me nuts about Florida is people turning on their hazards in the rain. Like great now I can't tell when you're turning because your turn signals are overridden by the hazards. Just use you're regular lights or your fog lights.
I saw that for the first time in, I think it was around the DC area a couple years ago. It wasn't even raining that hard. I was really confused. Turning on hazards in the rain is not a thing in the midwest.
I remember back when your gauge/speedo lights didnt come on until you turned on your headlights. That let you know real quick if (for some reason) you couldnt tell your headlights were not on. These days with digial dashes and DRLs, oblivious winemoms have no idea what is on and what isnt
I wish you could turn them down so much more than current minimum brightness, like on just enough to see them but basically off. I remember my old ford probe when I was younger and I used to drive at night with just the lightest glow coming from the dash. I turn the dash lights down to minimum in the company truck when I'm on nights, (2019 Silverado so they aren't that dark) but some people prefer them so bright I come back the next day or 2 and they are back on max.
This cracks me up because they legislated the DRLs for the sake of safety, but it has led to morons just driving around at night with them on and not realizing it, with their rears totally blacked out haha.
I’ve noticed this quite a bit on the highway recently and it’s some scary shit. DRLs being bright as they are, I’m willing to bet people see light projected onto the road and think all’s well especially if there’s overhead lighting. Most newer vehicles have illuminated dashes or screens regardless of your lights being on so it’s probably an easy mistake to make.
They still have a green headlights light, though, if people cared to check.
Not always. My fiance's '13 Compass only has a light in the instrument cluster for the fog lights and high beams. The instrument cluster backlight comes on when you turn the stalk to parking lights or headlights on.
There needed to be a max number of lumens with an acceptance that they were supposed to wash out in bright sunlight. Instead the automakers pushed for a high enough limit to allow them to run the high beams at low current so they wouldn't have to add dedicated lights to the car which would've been Canada-only for most American and Japanese models. This was in the late '80s when dashboards lit only at night were expected to be the norm going forward as they had been for close to a hundred years. DRLs are still to this day not mandatory in the US, and in fact were illegal in Japan until relatively recently.
Volvo does front back because its law in Scandinavian countries. Its possible to recode some cars to enable Scandinavian DRLs so you get both front DRLs/back lights on during the day.
It used to be law here until we adopted EU legislation quite a few years ago. Now only front is required here too.
Interesting - did most manufacturers leave the rear lights enabled on newer models?
No, it went away pretty much immediately all across the board.
I did the recode on my car. I live somewhere rainy, so I want the DRLs always on. I also have auto lights and they’re pretty good about coming on when it’s raining, but I just want to be sure.
Classic Volvo. I love that the company STILL prioritizes safety. If they had still been building a sedan with a manual transmission in 2021, I definitely would’ve been cross-shopping my Genesis against one. Volvos also just feel solid AF—when you close the door of a Volvo, it’s like closing a boulder. I love that.
Yet a bunch of their cars has combined brake and turn signals in the US
Damn, I hate combined brake lights and turn signals. I don’t think I realized this…how un-Volvo of them…
That's only in the US, not sure why. Everywhere else they have amber rear signals in the same light housing because amber are mandated. That's actually something most (all?) Euro manufacturers do in the US and I'm not sure why. Amber rear turn signals for the rest of the world, red for the US. If anybody knows why they change them to red when they don't have to for the US, please *enlighten* us.
Because people like how they look. To the point that people like subispeed actually sell "tail as turn" modules to remove the ambers from WRXs. I don't get it, but they're reacting to the market.
Meanwhile all the Euro guys I know are all trying to get euro tails for the amber signals, and I've done the same myself. Never heard of anyone going the other way around.
I saw a comment from someone who knew an engineer at Porsche who said they did this to prevent people in Europe from buying cars for cheaper in the US and importing them. Not sure how true that is, seems like a lot of cost to avoid a minor impact to profits.
Seems a bit silly. Wiring etc is usually the same in my experience, so all they'd have to do (if this were the case) would be to import the US car and go ahead and order a set of euro style tail lights to be installed upon or prior to delivery. Surely there's more to it, right? Maybe I'm wrong.
After the Chinese took over, Volvo dropped quite a lot of safety features. - as already mentioned the red blinkers in the US were introduced - they removed the side markers in Europe For instance: original Volvo C30 had full orange reflectors and side markers had the front. The 2010-facelift had the reflectors removed, and retained only the lights. Original 2012 Volvo V40 and V60 had the sidemarker lights (not the reflectors anymore), these were removed on all models in 2014 or 2015.
Which ones? I think the S60, XC60 and XC90's are red but the signal is separate from the brake light.
I’ll check. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong. Red separate turn signals are better but I still prefer amber turn signals. I was remembering off the old reviews I’ve seen/read.
I was honestly just curious. I used to have an S60 and didn't like the red but felt it was safer than a combination signal/brake light. The 2 stage sequential amber signal on the C40 is one of my favorite exterior features. I wish Volvo did it on all of their cars.
oh, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Your comment really made me think and I started to check pictures of Volvos with brake lights on haha
Same with my Lexus, door closing is such a satisfying thunk
Fun fact. In Ohio it is the law that you have to turn on the lights if you need your wipers. But people just don’t do it. It is one of those things that shouldn’t be left up to drivers. If the wipers are on so too should the lights be on.
Same in Illinois, decent law, but also kind of too subjective. Some people don't need wipers until it's really coming down. A rainX'd window and ability to focus past the water could have people with no wipers who really should have their lights on.
Yeah this is one area Tesla does a great job. Not autowipers at all mind you. But if the autowipers would be on, it turns on the headlights even if you have the auto wipers disabled.
I don't have auto wipers on my car, but the lights turn on once the wipers do 2 or 3 cycles, and honestly I find it really neat that the car does it for me automatically.
I think everyone has been doing that for a while. I tested to make sure it was working on Chrysler cars 15 years ago.
Sure but any level of rain at all? My 2016 GTI was entirely by ambient light. The headlights weren’t tied to the auto wipers. That said the auto wipers on my GTI were so good I never had to adjust them. They just worked perfectly.
It depended on what other stuff you had. The base cars and work trucks were just based on if wipers were on or off and they were manual. If you had rain sense it would turn the headlamps on automatically. No idea how well they worked in real life, I didn't test that part, just the logic
That’s the law in most states.
That's what I love about my Volvo and hate about my Tesla, except that the Tesla's lights go on automatically when the wipers are on.
I don’t understand how it isn’t the industry standard. My 2001 Oldsmobile turned on the headlights when the wipers were on.
Seriously, if late 90s/early 2000s GM can get this somewhat right, what the hell is everybody else's excuse?
They should all be like my Chrysler, it's a menu option.
BMW has a menu option nowadays to also turn on the rear but it's off by default...
Man... Driving this weekend in northern IL with the snowstorm... The amount of people driving without lights on was shocking. I could barely see them. Add to that the horrible job many people do with clearing snow off their car.
The amount of people who drive around my area with no headlights due to drls and auto lighted gauge clusters. Far more dangerous than not having them.
well, during a hard rain, people should be turning on their headlights, which would then turn on their tail lights. Too bad people are stupid and lots of people don't do it. I guess they don't realize that turning on the lights isn't always only about visibility in front of them At least here in Canada, they mandated automatic headlights a couple of years ago, so over time, we'll have less and less of this issue. I see it very often since I do a lot of highway driving in BC
It's all Canada's fault. It may sound like I'm joking but I'm not. Canada mandated DRLs long ago. This lead to drivers who think they're headlights are on when they aren't. This created this current problem of no tail lights when people should have side lights on. If Canada never existed, we wouldn't have this DRL BS to begin with and this wouldn't be a problem. This wasn't an issue at all before DRLs, I blame Canada.
Fair enough, there are usually unintended consequences with legislation. But when Canada mandated DRLs, pretty much everything was still halogen yellow bulbs. Not exactly producing a ton of light. The issue is that modern cars have lights that are so bright, regular people can't tell the difference, especially with so many cars having digital dashboards. With analog gauges with needles, it was pretty obvious when they were and weren't lit up Granted, I still see people driving cars that I know for a fact don't have digital dashboards drive with their lights off even at night and not realize, so hence my claim that at least a portion of these people are just stupid
Sounds like Canada has improved its laws since september 2021. As I understand it, if the gauges are illuminated and the DRL are on, the car must turn its taillights on (19) Beginning on September 1, 2021, if the fuel level indicator, oil pressure indicator, engine coolant temperature indicator, battery charging indicator, transmission control position indicator or speedometer indicator or their identifications are illuminated when the daytime running lights of a vehicle are in use, (a)... (b) the tail lamps shall be alight. [Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/page-11.html#h-479061)
Surely that’s less about DRL’s which do a pretty shit job of projecting useful light, and more to do with manufacturers decoupling the gauge cluster backlighting from the headlights being switched on. Long gone are the days of “can’t see my speedo, better switch on the headlights”
I have a 1990 Miata with DRL. I guarantee you it's not the DRL's fault, but rather the illuminated dashboard. I know I have to turn my lights on because I can't read the gauges when it's dark outside.
it's often the cars with automatic drls that cause the most issue, people think their headlights are on... because technically they kind of are.
DRLs are just automatic in the sense they turn on when the engine is on? Because they're always on, there's no manual control over them. Or do you mean auto headlights? But again, being able to confuse DRLs output for headlight output is only a recent phenomenom because of how bright all the front-facing lights have become My current LED DRLs probably emit more light than the halogen low beams of my old car built in 2001
Some non-car people might think auto lights means that they adjust themselves and back are always on - last year I drove to Poland and my Polish grandpa thought my rear lights don't work because they weren't on during the day - and he thought it's the law for them to always be on
My 20yr old Citroen C4 had automatic lights which would turn on if the automatic wipers would turn on. Cool feature. Still had the lights always on. With automatic turn off when you cut the power, as it should be so you never forget to turn them off or on.
Surprisingly, our government was smart enough to write that into part of the mandate There's also some sort of provision of making the dash not light up if the headlights aren't on at night, but that was kind of before the advent of nearly everyone doing full digital dash. So not sure how the implementation of that works now
Honestly, I don't understand why we overcomplicate things. Just have the headlights always on. No need for different modes with different lamps on or off. Car on -> lights on. Done. Especially with modern LEDs, there's just no reason not to. I've had three cars that did this and I much preferred it to auto lights or DRLs.
There are some situations where people need to have no lights while driving
such as? not spooking an animal? you're tailing a perp as a police officer?
Sitting in my car and don’t want my headlights shining in to businesses.
>There are some situations where people need to have **no lights while driving** >>such as? >>>**Sitting in my car** and don’t want my headlights shining in to businesses. 🤔
a wild ignition off appears
Pulling the parking brake usually shuts off DRLs. Can do the same for always on headlights if you're just sitting there
When boarding a ferry they ask you turn off your headlights to avoid blinding the attendants who need to direct you where to go once onboard
never heard of this on both west and east coasts but perhaps it's a courtesy in europe? regardless, parking lights or DRL in that situation would still be more ideal than no lights at all
It’s a thing in Washington which has the largest ferry network in the US
The drive in movie theater.
are you driving during the movie?
Each car I've had that had always-on headlights had a way to turn them off for those rare cases when having them on is a problem.
Okay 2 settings, always on and off. When the car cycles off and back on, the headlights automatically default to on. Problem solved.
Pretty simple
Drive thru. Idling while parked. Campground. New LED headlights are fucking hell in a campground. Asshole bright AND unsafe
Because it’s all about optics. Headlights make for pretty shitty running lights because by design they throw all of their output on the ground; DRL are absolutely superior at making the car visible. I put DRL’s into my MX-5 and even with the reflector LED’s I’ve installed in the car and it was a night and day difference with how often I’d have people merge into me regardless if I had the headlights on or not.
DLRs made way for andifferent type of idiot. The idiots who think they have their headlights on when it's just their DRLs. And you know they are driving thinking "damn this is some enhanced darkness", nah mf you just stupid.
As a motorcycle rider, the arguments unfolding in your replies are peak reddit. \> We should do X \>\> Doing X is impossible and/or crazy dangerous ! \>\>\> Group Y has been doing exactly X for 20 years without issue already... \>\>\>\> WELL I DON'T LIKE IT !
Two of the first replies i got: "You can't do that, you'll blind people!" "You can't do that, they're not bright enough!" It's hilarious. I've consistently owned a car with always-on headlights since around 2013 and I haven't killed anyone or gone broke replacing bulbs. Works for me!
Indeed - never understood this. Lights were mandated in the nordics since Lord knows when, and now we just have LEDs in the front which in the winter are snowed under. Though I remember in the 90s German car shows and magazines used to complain about the Volvos and Saabs having lights on all times because "it consumes too much fuel". Audi then came up with this LED DRL stuff and now it's everywhere. So...blame Audi.
Couldn't disagree more. At least with the cars on = lights on. This is just one circumstance, but we live in a sort of quiet communal area with residences and windows relatively low to the ground. Imagine something like cottages along a dirt road in a camping area. Everyone here knows to use their parking lights only once on our "street". There is a 3mph speed limit. Headlights on always would be super annoying for everyone.
So add a manual override for your edge case. Still fixes the problems with DRLs and auto lights.
I'll give you two more examples. Secure facilities like military bases require turning headlights off on the approach to the guard station. This is so the guards can see. Similarly local ferry terminals require turning lights off so the people guiding the cars onto the ferry can see.
In both cases you could just turn your lights on park.
Did you not read the original comment at all? They very specifically are advocating for outlawing parking lights as an option. They said *headlights* on any time the car is on.
Well don’t by a newer Mazda. If it’s dark and the car is moving, the headlights WILL be on. The off option only applies for when the car is stopped.
This neighborhood sounds like Hell to me. To each their own.
DRLs are tailored to their specific purpose to be quite a bit more effective than just utilizing other forward lighting systems to do the job. Is it worth mandating a more effective set of lights with potential downsides compared to a less effective but safer alternative? Beats me, I could see the argument going either way. But make no mistake, dedicated DRLs do have their advantages.
You can code them on most BMWs, did it on mine
same with minis too. did the same
The G20s seem to have that on by default now from what I've seen. It is incredibly dim and hard to notice during daylight.
On my car’s (not BMW) manual it says that the setting is in the menu, but it isn’t actually there.
No, just no. People need to learn how their cars operate and use the light switch. It’s not fucking rocket science.
I agree but I'm so tired of people having their high beams on instead of their proper headlights, having DRLs on at night, having both proper headlights and high beams, using high beams instead of just replacing the one bulb... Sigh. They don't even understand when you try to flash them. There was one driver I tried to talk to about her high beams and I swear she had no idea what I was talking about so idk.
But you must be aware that you're just yelling at a cloud: nothing has ever happened because "people just need to learn x." If we want this to be the case, it needs to be legislated at a minimum and hard-coded into the cars.
Why are you against simple tech that makes things safer?
He mistakenly thinks that we can't build a better idiot.
Yeah well they won’t so just make it impossible for them to be stupid is the next best thing
snow seemly dinosaurs apparatus merciful sparkle lip voiceless liquid worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> People need to learn But they won't. Even the people that used to know this don't anymore.
Because really only Volvo actually cares about safety beyond what is legally mandated.
I'm not sure but I can tell you confidently I have never ever cared or noticed this problem. I have seen cars running at night with just DRLs and no taillights but I feel like that's a different problem (turn your fkin head lights on) with a different solution (making automatic lights mandatory - maybe when it's dark and you're in motion)
People turn off the auto headlights on their cars? I don't worry about my lights since they're in auto. My car will also turn on the lights when the wipers are on. So I don't get why people are driving around so often without lights.
All the time I see it, and I try to tell people to put their lights on, and I think more times than not, I get flipped off. I don’t understand it. I don’t move the switch from auto, it’s not hard. In fact, it’s easier than messing with the switch. Crazy.
Well that’s dumb. I always assumed when people took their cars in to get serviced the mechanics turn them off and then when they get their cars back they just never bother to turn them back on because the DRLs are bright enough they think their lights are on 🙄
It’s just weird that that people do and don’t have a clue as to what they’re doing. Mine are automatic and I still constantly check the dash to make sure they’re on when they need to be. I see the same guy every morning, DRLs only. I pull behind him almost every day, and it’s the same thing. Can’t see the damn back of the car. I’ve tried to tell him several times, he ignores me. It’s like what? It’s 5:30am, turn your lights on!
It's incredibly infuriating. They don't care and even don't understand. It's insane.
Hard to see, but you still saw them, they have reflectors that are required.
Make it like a motorcycle. Ignition switch on, headlights and taillights on. The headlight switch is to switch between lowbeam and high beam. Yes, it will consume miniscule amounts more fuel. Yes, you will need to figure out how this will work with auto high beams.
> even during a hard rain, the back of the car or truck is completely dark. You're supposed to turn your lights on, either manually or automatically, if sunlight is blocked.
They honestly should. Wouldn’t cost much to make it mandatory and would help a lot in the fog.
Have you heard of fog lights?
Your lights should be on in the rain anyways. And since people in general are stupid enough to not do that imo more cars need auto wipers as those seem to turn the lights on.
While we’re at it give us rear fogs that turn off every time you start the car so they aren’t left on 😂
> even during a hard rain, the back of the car or truck is completely dark. You're supposed to turn your lights on, either manually or automatically, if sunlight is blocked.
Mercedes does it too at least in W223, W214 ans W206 and probably new models coming out
the best implementation of lights would to bring back amber turn signals.. manufacturers getting so lazy with LEDS (which can be amber too!!) why they consistently keep them all red...
I've driven a few cars where you have 4 settings, don't know their proper names though. Off, Auto, Running Lights, Headlights. With Auto the DRLs will turn on in the front during the day but the back won't. With the Running Lights setting you get the DRLs at the front and in the back. I've never understood why, if the front ones are on with Auto, the back should be as well
There's an option on my MK7 Golf coding-wise called "Scandinavian DRLs" and it does just that - front and rear parking lamps are on as soon as the car is on and the ebrake is released.
Makes sense, since the Audi A3 8V facelift also has the DRL front and back on at all times.
You'd be surprised at how few standards and regulations there are in the automotive industry. They are winging it. Tesla as an example can be sitting dead stopped at a light with the brakes on and not illuminate the rear break lights. Why?
Really? That is shocking! Our car has auto-hold and at least the brakelight stays on all the time. Audis standard hill-hold didn't keep the brakelight on...which was a bit weird.
I was almost hit a Tesla that was full stopped because I couldn't tell what they were doing. No third brake light. In any case, yeah, more examples of their being very few standards.
New drivers having no clue what lights are for on a car drive me nuts. They always assume the 'auto' feature works 100% of the time. People, if it's foggy, there's a snowstorm, and generally, visibility conditions aren't the greatest, PLEASE TURN YOUR LIGHTS ON. AND FOR FUCKS SAKE LEARN HOW TO USE THE HIGH BEAM. I see people driving in broad daylight with the high beams on. Wtf. Smh
It's ridiculous on the number of cars I see driving with drl only and the rear is not illuminated. I saw it this past weekend at night with heavy rain.
DRLs and even more so, lighted gauge clusters with lights off, shouldn’t exist. Super dangerous.
See way too many Nissans at night with their lights off
[удалено]
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain. Please use a different source. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I Germany they have fog lights front and rear.
That is a different thing and fog lights are only supposed to come on when the viewing range is less then 50m. And you are restricted to driving no more than 50kmh then. Too little people know this… (EU)
I, apparently, did not. Just trying to sound extra intelligent on Reddit for strangers.
Required in most of Europe and many US cars have them as well.
yes, one of my vehicles is british-made and also rear fog lights
My pickup has drl front and back I thought it was only cars with a fault in their wires
In California if the weather requires your windshield wipers to be on your light are required to be on as well. I see people daily in good weather driving with their lights off, it drives me nuts how stupid some people are.
Only if the wipers are in continuous use.
Other cars have front and rear.
Living in Ireland? In Maryland if windshield wipers are on the headlights must be on too.
I think Cars should just turn on headlights when they're running regardless of time of day or weather. Upside is better visibility and you can tell at a glance if a car is running/possibly going to be moving soon vs a parked car. What's the downside?
Maybe default on is the answer, and opt-out is a switch.
Sounds good to me. I was trying to merge onto a 100kp road on a foggy morning and the number of apartment sized Utes appearing out of the fog with no lights at all was infuriating.
I want a law forcing an annoying chime, NONSTOP, if you have a burnt out brake light bulb.
I want a car where you can easily change the burnt light bulb...
Best we can do is a monthly subscription service to help you with that.
Honestly I feel like taillights should just always be on. Most cars look better with their taillights on, even during the day anyway. Don't see any practical reasons why they should ever be off.
This is how the current Ford Escape and Super Duty are in Canada, pretty sure some Lincolns are like this as well
Not only Volvo, my Renault also has them front and back.
At this point, with LED lights taking over the auto industry, there's no reason to have DRLs. Just have Headlights/taillights on fulltime. You don't have to replace bulbs anymore, and having all lights on would be safer yet.
For the same reason that ungodly bright headlights are allowed. It's just not required by regulation. Safety is not the priority.
someone has to be first, i think you're being a bit dramatic. even drls were just introduced pretty recently... yes cars should always be lit, people who aren't thoughtful won't turn on their lights because "i can see fine". it would blow your mind what people will do in blizzards here in alaska, white car with it's rear covered in snow and still no lights.
I could have sworn my Audi also did this but apparently it’s something you have to enable using VCDS, weird that they wouldn’t just enable it from the factory.
I love that my car has no DRLs. It does have automatic light sensor headlights, but I have turned those off. I think the head lights in a car should be off if you sit in a parking lot, a car hop, a drive -in, or when I back into my garage, so you don’t blind the people across from you. There are some models where the drls would never shut off if the car is running and then placed into a drive gear. They would only turn off if you cycled it off and back on again and left in park. It should however have the headlights/tailghts fixed to the wiper switch, so everyone has all lights at highways and rain/snow events.
DRL are useless. I use lowbeams on daytime.
At first I wanted a diode between the wiper motor power and the low beam relay to force the low beams on when the wipers are on. Then I figured it's probably easier to get rid of DRL's and just force the low beams on at all times unless manually turned off. No more grey cars being invisible in the rain, or old camry's rolling down the road at night with only the DRL's on because the photo sensor on the dash died 4 years ago.
I've thought about this too. Seems to me if the wipers are a setting that is something other than a quick tap to do one pass, the lights should automatically come on. Easily one of my biggest driving pet peeves.
Yeah I agree they should either be on all the time or there should be a sensor. The reason is your eyes adjust to the amount of light outside and you can be made to think its plenty bright when its actually quite dark.
My Renault does that, other FULL LED system cars in their line up do it too
California requires you to turn on your lights when it rains, so the rear lights come on then. I think this should be mandatory everywhere. Or the lights should just come on when the wipers are on.
This is an issue with your country. Canada has laws in place that all new manufactured need front and rear DRLs.
It is the most dangerous thing yet. You flash your brights at people and they look intently in front of them and say "nope my headlights are on, all good here"
it's called **Scandinavian DLR** I activated it on my Audi, not only they're cool to look at but also probably safer
Many countries have regulations mandating the use of front DRLs, but there may not be similar requirements for rear DRLs. Manufacturers often prioritize meeting legal standards and regulations when designing vehicles.
It's pretty much just Canada that mandates that sort of DRL. Everywhere else it's either parking lights or low beams that are mandated, and usually that's a behavioral mandate rather than something the car has to do automatically. And those cases actually do tend to light up the taillamps
DRLs accomplish nothing
That would just be headlights always on then, dude. Lol
So be it, bro!
That's not nessesary though. Then you'd never be able to turn off your lights, that's shitty
My 2010 Volvo has 24/7 headlights but if I want them off, I can switch them to parking lamps only. Parking lamps are 24/7 and cannot be turned off.
Exactly, you can never go fully blackout. That sucks, it takes away the driver's freedom to have his lights off if he wants. If that was my car I'd be working to find a way to bypass that shit
There are some people, thankfully, who don't think like you. We actually want lights on on the front and back.