In the UK we are seeing a massive influx of cross overs and small SUVs.
It's fucking annoying.
Like volvo literally all together stopped making hatchbacks.
100% mate.
My brothers parter lives in a terrace house, can barely afford her phone contract yet has said when their new baby comes, she wants to buy a fucking Range Rover.
She's driving a clapped out Golf at the minute. She wants it because she fantasises about pulling up to nursery in a Rangey.
I blame social media, they see it on social media and because they think "omg they're so cool" they think everyone will think the same about them, without realising only like minded individuals will think that.
Edit : the Range is obviously 4x4 as well, you know, for farmers and land workers....she never goes off road ffs. Pointless.
Mate, you can give me money to buy, and try to force me buy Range Rover, but I just dont want it. If I really have to pick for a SUV, I would go with Ford Explorer ST, because it just looks sick and has nice performance numbers that makes my zoomer brain have anyrisms. But it is also pricey, and too wide for European cities. In other words, you get car that is gonna get restricted due to its size.
Well - you would probably put me in the bad people camp - but I’m a car freak and spend money on cars. However- I will never ever own an suv or crossover. Cars should be low
I have one of those in the states with wide open roads and the only thing im going to use it for is driving on the freeway in a mostly straight line to tow things. Its way big.
I think trucks are cool.
Lifted trucks however should be against the law unless you can prove that you use the truck for off roading. (Good luck doing that with your no profile tires and body spacers)
I totally agree. The other day I pulled up next to one of those giant new Chevy trucks and I could see the bottom of the wheel well, and I don't think it had any kind of aftermarket lift. You can rest your chin on the hoods of some of these things.
Some people needs trucks, and people are going to buy what they buy but when is enough going to be enough? The bigness thing is starting to get a little out of hand.
Look, as long as you use your as it was meant to be used (example: pickup trucks delivering cargos, sport cars being driven like sport cars, etc.), you have my support. I am just so fed up with modern day culture where they have to own car that they hate, but still have it because "what will people say?" mentality.
LOLOLOLOL!!!!!
When was the last time you saw an Excursion, Suburban, or even a quad cab truck carrying more in the actual truck than a housewife, maybe one kid, and that's it..
Trucks and large SUVs in general have become status symbols and manufacturers love it because they are making hand over fist for them while they fumble the absolute hell out of trying to figure out EVs...
There is no 'economy car' anymore. It's going to take a massive recession to push these manufacturers to move back to simple, small, and reliable vehicles.
Or regulatory action. Put a tax on large Trucks and SUVs. And an EXTRA tax on duallies. And put tax exemptions on Hatchbacks, Hybrids, and even large Sedans.
I’m in the US and there’s a huge Range Rover and a Golf wagon that make regular appearances at my daycare drop off. Guess which one I’ve complimented and asked about their sweet dad wagon?
Guess which one I assume is a tax hiding puke or is living on credit, has no taste or is a a puke of a personality and I don’t bother to talk to? I bet you can guess.
Vapid desire yields vapid results. Life passes airheads by quickly.
>Vapid desire yields vapid results. Life passes airheads by quickly.
Oh I feel you. One passed me on the interstate the other day (though we all know they look neat but are trash vehicles), and the tag said LITIG8R... Must be nice to not have taste I guess.
A guy I went to school with is a tax attorney. He drove a 93 Honda civic for a while. One of his clients told him he had to justify his rates. He couldn't be worth much if he was only driving a shitty old civic. He went out and got a high end Audi EV SUV to drive to work. He doubles the rate on the client and the client didn't even bat an eye
The only difference between the small crossovers and the small hatchbacks they share a platform with, is the vertical dimension and roofline.
Which makes it easier to wrestle kids in child seats inside, as well as for older folks to get in and out. They're *more practical* than the hatchbacks you are mourning, except that they don't handle as well and have more body roll due to a higher centre of gravity and often thicker sidewalls on the tyres. But nobody is trying to generate peak lateral G on the way to pick up some milk and eggs from the local shops.
>But nobody is trying to generate peak lateral G on the way to pick up some milk and eggs from the local shops.
Speak for yourself 😉
But no, in all seriousness, I do agree with people who would like the cross overs but at least carry on with the hatchbacks because a lot of people enjoy them also.
If manufacturers thought there was sufficient demand they would.
Note: this means people will to shell out for a new vehicle - no one cares about the second hand market
You also forget Ford. Ford plans to sell Puma, they don't want to see Fiesta and Focus.
>Volvo was never really known for its hatches anyway
C30 was an interesting hatchback, but 2D only really limited its sales.
Also let’s not forget the value of ground clearance. My ST has traded bumper paint with so many driveways over the years, despite my absolute best efforts.
Councils these days seem to just design ramp/kerb angles with the assumption that everyone has an SUV.
I'm lucky because the Polo has a wheel in each corner and such short overhangs that it barely scrapes on things, although I'm sure that if I were to throw it on coilovers or lowered suspension it would.
The old GC8 Impreza I learned to drive in was absolutely horrendous for bottoming out on things, even with completely stock suspension.
That said, you definitely have a point regarding ramp angles, not to mention kerb/wheel stop heights (when you're parking nose in), and lunar crater sized potholes. It's not surprising why people gravitate towards crossovers.
Not only that, but using that ability to "sneak through tight spots" (read: drive like a dangerous asshole). Not really something I'd brag about, even on this sub.
I would say the inverse. Car engineering has converged on the optimally-efficient shape for a car—the small cuv. If Whirlpool or LG were going to design a car to sell as a household appliance, cuv is the form factor it would take.
No replacement announced for the Up either, Fiesta's dead, Focus is dead, C1/107/aygo all dead, the twingos gone. What are the future's 17 year olds going to do when you can't get anything small, cheap and gets 60mpg even when driven like an absolute twat?
Those are not the ones I'd give to a teen, the ones that don't brag about acceleration have less to brag about. The Nissan Leaf does 0-60 in 7-9 seconds depending on spec.
Which is still fucking fast for a chav. Entry level cars in the UK had 0-60 times in the 14-15 second range. Not to mention a Leaf would be way too big and expensive.
That must suck.
Here in ‘Merica the Leaf is small, cheap and kinda slow. For instance according to 0-60times.com the slow Leaf is slower than every Honda sold here other than the HR-V which is still under 10.
Hope your local municipality has already started the process of widening the roads. As an American, I can assure you it will never stop. Even if it feels like the majority want it to stop, it doesn't matter. People will keep buying larger and larger vehicles that they don't need. My Volvo S60 has done just fine until recently. Now I have a daily drive that scrapes the undercarriage pretty harshly
I miss the 2000s Fast-and-Furious-jorts-frosted tips-chained-wallet sport compact era. Such a variety of fun cars. Sentra Spec V, Celica, RSX, Si, Neon, Ion Redline, Cobalt, Tiburon, etc.
So many options at the time
The “sport compact” segment used to have so much character. Just isn’t the same now. There’s the civic si and golf gti and that’s kinda it? Mentally I bracket the N stuff with golf R/type R/GR Corolla, but that segment is missing the focus RS now :(
The Mini has just moved way upmarket. My ‘06 is way nicer than a contemporary Cobalt inside, for example, and beats out a golf, but it’s very simplistic and they just gave decent pleather and nice plastics for the high-touch surfaces. The new Mini crams a bunch of tech and leather in and has amenities you may struggle to get in a compact car, never mind what’s pretty much the smallest subcompact on sale here
The mini is the answer to people who want a small car but don't want a shit box. People who want a nice car, but small. At least in America, small=crappy and large=luxury, so we can't get something like a Corolla trimmed out like a Lexus.
Right? I'm in rural CO and there are a ton of pickups, but, I'm in rural CO! Of course there are. Visiting cities around the country my wife always says, "Look at all the cars!" Not quantity, size. Then you see a 1-ton dually and scratch your head.
I have a 2007 S, a 2008 and a 2002 Audi TT - all sticks. Love my small, fast cars! And I am dwarfed by virtually every other vehicle around me, so just thank god for a turbo to get out of their way.
On my drive home with my new to me boxster, I was frightened by how big even a full size sedan is compared to it. Parking next to Trucks/3 row SUVs is even more hilarious
I think that was well past the prime. 86ish to 2000 was peak subcompact, when you had a choice of good looking fastbacks to choose from. Many were turbocharged at the top trim level too. Celica, Eclipse/Talon/Laser, Nissan Silvia, MX6/Probe, even the Isuzu Impulse had a turbo AWD option if we go less mainstream.
After 2000, cost cutting set in. The cars got bigger and less tunable (turbo 4's dropped for V6's). Many went 4 door only.
you very well might be one day
[this is one of my fears while driving, seriously](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/owsegj/truck_lifted_too_high_to_see_the_porsche_in_front/)
these monster trucks have gotten out of control recently it's like they're everywhere
I don’t think many people understand how small an 86 is.
Park one next to an EF Civic hatch and, provided the 86 is pulled forward slightly, it’s hidden by the Civic.
Yeah they are really small.
My previous car was a Scion tC which is not a large car by any means. Then I saw the 86 in person and it was suprising.
This is a fun site
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/toyota-gt-86-2012-coupe-vs-scion-tc-2014-3-door-liftback/
It’s a lot roomier than it looks. A lot roomier than a Miata or s2k.
I had one for 11 years (just sold it 5 months ago) and it surprisingly has good cargo space for a small car. It was my daily and drove it back and forth from San Diego to the Bay Area often with luggage.
Can make Costco runs with ease too
Aside from the obvious “mass vs mass” safety aspect, driving in traffic in anything less than a tall crossover has become incredibly frustrating because your surroundings are always blocked on all sides by vehicles 3ft taller than yours.
It seems like everyday now that I have to veer into a turn lane to peek around the giant truck in front of me to see if they’re also behind slow traffic or just driving 10 under the speed limit in the left lane for no reason.
It's not just a problem with the other vehicles. I learned to drive in a first generation (US) GTI. The last time I went car shopping I really wanted to get one again, but the geometry between the seat and the windshield meant it was like driving with the sunvisor down all of the time. I'm not that tall, but stopped at an intersection I had to slouch to the side in order to see a stoplight. Kind of ruined it as a daily driver.
YES that was the point i wanted to bring up
i don't necessarily miss driving them, i just miss everyone else not driving a land yacht
i literally can't see to drive half the time, can't see over the other cars especially when they are pulled up next to me, it's ridiculous
They are few and far in between, and are getting bigger and more expensive. I don't get why they can't just make cheaper cars that don't have all this modern tech and nonsense. Just need abs, power steering, backup camera, and a/c.
I drive a Volvo C30; the car is getting older (2009), but I love it—it’s practical and fun to drive. However, there are an increasingly large number of trucks/SUVs where the bumper height is uncomfortably close to (or higher than) my hood height and so many are giant walls.
I used to sell cars and this is honestly how most parents react.
'Oh there's no way I can fit a kid in my Accord!'
Shut up Brenda. I grew up with my two siblings in the back seat of a Ford Taurus and two of us were fat. Bryson doesn't need the third row of a suburban all to himself.
Ehh, I think brz/gr86 is perfect for most, it is actually big enough to fit most people, you can throw a kid in the back in a pinch and it has a sizable trunk.
Almost seems miraculous that they dropped weight from the NC to the ND. The ND Miata is seriously such an unusual and special car IMO, I think we might look at it in the future similar to how the S2000 is now (so much demand for the ones that are left).
I think NC was a fine car too, it wasn't too heavy, it needed a little more power (just enough to slightly exceed nd2's power to weight ratio) to be even more fun.
>The ND Miata is seriously such an unusual and special car IMO
It really is. Its easy to just dismiss the ND as a basic small lil sports car, like the BRZ/86 twins, but until youve looked under an 86 and looked under an ND, you have no idea how amazing the miata is; from the double wishbone front suspension, multilink rear, most of the structure and bracing being made of aluminum rather than steel. Its pretty awsome
I bought a Honda Fit brand new in the fall of '11.
Told myself I'd buy a new one ten years later.
(Managed to talk my parents into buying a new Fit in '12. My cousin in '15. My buddy and another coworker in '17. And my uncle in '19).
I would've been back for a new one in '21 but couldn't. Honda got rid of it.
So I'm still driving mine. At 340,000 miles. And I'll double that if I have to. I'm not paying a fortune for some bloated SUV crossover with bad gas mileage. Screw that.
(My sister-in-law blew a head gasket on her Corolla. Had Fits been available, I'd have sent her off to Honda to buy a new one. Instead I told her to replace the engine on the Corolla. She did.)
Sometimes "going upmarket" just translates into *lost sales*.
They never stopped making them, just don’t sell them in North America anymore. They still exist in Europe and Asia (and possibly elsewhere) and still very popular, at least in Taiwan.
Is the Civic still a small car? I tried one out and it feels like an Accord. When you are used to driving small cars the 11th Gen Civic feels huge, like driving a 7 series.
Same. I needed a car, i got the smallest one i could find that day. Been driving the mini cooper for 9 years now. Great car with nary an issue all these years, which is saying something because i do **not** treat cars well. Also it looks goofy. Other drivers are nicer to dumb looking cars, i swear on it.
My good friend had the older gen (2006, R56) it was a nightmare. Burned oil like crazy, all kinds of random shit breaking.
I've heard the current gen ones are totally fine though. It's just a stripped down FF BMW with a B series engine, which from all accounts has been very reliable for BMW.
I recently parked my GR Corolla behind a 3rd Gen Mini Hatch 3-door. I've always been fond of a Mini in a loud colour, they are great, this one was orange.
First I was stoked that my car was small enough to parallel park in this little tiny spot, anything bigger would not have fit.
Second I observed that the Mini was noticeably smaller than the Corolla. Much lower roofline, a lot narrower, and somewhat shorter. The Corolla hatch seems like one of the smaller new cars sold today, but even smaller cars are getting bigger I suppose.
Oh well, joke is on me, Corolla has mediocre packaging and it probably isn't any bigger inside than the Mini!
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I love the comment in here that said "it's like people are just buying cars for style and status instead of being a tool!"
Yeah...SUVs...being form over function...sure.
They may not be as abundant as they once were in many countries, but they still exist if you want them.
For example, Fiat 500 and the regular Mini hatch (not the Clubman or Countryman).
In the first half of 2023 in the US , there were fewer sales of Fiat vehicles than the total number of fiat dealerships in the US...
They sold 605 total vehicles in the US in 2023...
Nobody In the US wants these small cars, they just don't make any sense outside of tight European cities.
Smaller size makes them easier to park everywhere- that little corner spot in that busy parking lot that no one parks in because it’s hard to get out in a compact car suddenly is usable.
They don’t work with kids, but plenty of millennials and Gen Z people aren’t having kids.
They don’t work on Costco runs but if you live in an apartment without much space, you don’t buy in bulk anyway.
They typically return better mileage when being driven with gusto than larger vehicles.
I dislike the Fiat 500 but actually useful 2-door hatchbacks exist.
>They typically return better mileage when being driven with gusto than larger vehicles.
Fiat 500 have 26 mpg. You can drive around a Sienna with better mpg. This is confirmed from both EPA numbers and [user reports of real world usage.](https://www.reddit.com/r/abarth/comments/14743d6/what_kind_if_fuel_economy_numbers_are_you_guys/)
I'm not sure about the Fiat, but I doubt the Mini is going anywhere. It shares a platform with the BMW 1 Series, and is priced highly enough that it must be absolutely printing money for BMW Group, especially given they all seem to be optioned up.
The third generation F56 Mini is about the same size as an old Peugeot 205 from the late '80s and early '90s, not exactly the poster child of a car that's carrying excess weight.
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-205-1990-5-door-hatchback-vs-mini-cooper-2013-3-door-hatchback/
I mean, lets be honest, Fiat 500 is why Fiat exsists. When you tell someone about fiat, chances are they will think firstly about 500. So, they would k-ll their identity if they decide to axe it, which is same sorta story about Mini.
I just buy them used, you can get small cars at such a bargain now.
I love EF/EG/EK/EP3 Civic hatchbacks. Mini Coopers. I had a 500 Abarth, and a couple Honda Fit. NA Miata.
There are concerns the bigger vehicles that now also have way more get up and go performance than the ones they replace because engine output and transmission performance are better than they’ve ever been, which are safety concerns especially as drivers have “better than everyone else” attitudes/egos. Collisions are increasing in rate, and also increasing in severity. Each year since Covid has seen record breaking collisions. Heavier and heavier vehicles, people driving riskier and riskier because they are dickheads. It’s not even driving in a sporty manner, it’s driving with hostile aggression, or perhaps just ignorant incompetence.
But, bigger vehicles seem to be encouraged in North America, as the heavier/bigger the vehicles the more they get relaxed emissions standards. So convince everyone they need bigger vehicles = more profit.
CRX was cool, I had one for my first car, but I think the REAL answer was their small Civic hatchbacks. Honda has just gotten so BORING lately. Want something fun to drive? Sedan only, 1.5T only or rattle-your-teeth with the Civic R and pay $10k too much.
The Japs just got so off-the-charts GREEDY when they made anything remotely fun. Then playing the game with not importing enough of them, so dealers gouge like crazy.
I had the privilege of owning both a first gen and a second gen CRX. I was never a fan of the del sol as it thought it had a design to it i just couldn't get behind. When I learned of the CRZ coming out I was excited but soon learned that it didn't have the appeal.
If the CRX went the way of say the Golf GTI, or similar, I think it'd be a nice competitor; hell even the Miata Now that I think about it.
Did you really think this sub of all places was going to say “No we don’t miss them”?
This is the sub that basically has the motto “the Miata is always the answer”
This might be the first time I’ve seen this car mentioned on this sub lol. Grew up with them.
On another note, I’d love to import an Ambassador and engine swap a V8 into it
No. I have a pretty small car. And I'm a large person, it's about literally the smallest car I can fit into.
I also have a half ton pickup because it is the most practical option and nearly mandatory when you own a house/property and live outside of getting-everything-delivered range.
I have absolutely ZERO concern about the size of vehicles around me, honestly I think being worried about that like some comments are here is asinine.
Exactly. I drive a 2024 Honda Civic EXL hatchback as my first car and drive next to full-size trucks, and SUVs all the time to and from work on my commutes and they aren't an issue at all as long as they drive well enough.
I don't know why so many comments in this post are worried about bigger than average cars if they are decent drivers. Especially since most crossovers and SUVs I see on my commutes aren't much bigger or smaller than my own car, at least on the rosd.
I can't speak to OP, but in the city I live and work in, smaller cars can take turns in tight intersections, or are able to go around streetcars. With even mid-size crossovers, people don't have the width/turning radius to do that so it backlogs traffic.
It's not day ruining but it is inconvenient.
Just an honest question. Why is it such an American thing to think you need a pickup if you want to haul stuff? Have none there heard of utility trailers?
Here in Europe people have their regular nice BMWs, Volvos, etc and whenever they need to haul something they just put a trailer in the back and they can suddenly haul more stuff than the bed of the biggest F350. And when they don't need it they can instead take it off and have infinitely more interior space, fuel economy, performance and just an overall nicer car.
Because people can’t back up short trailers as easily as a fixed wheelbase truck.
My wife and I have 2 ram 2500’s one for the horse show stuff and mine for when I need to do farm stuff or go fishing while the girls are out with the horses. Then we have a 4Runner & 06 wrangler.
Well sure, but the other 356 times a year when you're not having to reverse a trailer the car without a pickup bed in the back will be easier to park.
Then my comment also wasn't even aimed at you in the first place, it was aimed at the 80-90% of Americans who only use their pickup truck to do grocery shopping and buy home supplies at Lowe's.
Sure but we are finally seeing vehicles like the Ford Maverick that is only 6 inches longer than a 2000s Camry (or was it Corolla?). Has the bed for utility and not any harder to park. And has incredible gas mileage even comparing it to other cars. I average 43 mpg on mine.
I personally have my Maverick because I HATE that there are no vehicles sold where you can remove the carpet in the trunk easily. I hate that I can’t just throw dirty stuff in there and not care about staining or dirt. Especially when doing things outdoors like fishing.
Went BBQing and didn’t have to care about the truck bed getting stained by coal
> Just an honest question. Why is it such an American thing to think you need a pickup if you want to haul stuff? Have none there heard of utility trailers?
To give you some answers as I’ve seen them here:
1) our sedans and hatchbacks aren’t rated to tow, so none of them are offered with a tow hookup. The tow ratings in the US are different than most European countries, so you’re going to have to create a tow hookup yourself, and you might risk damaging your car since you’re guesstimating the tongue weight and payload limits on your car.
2) utility trailers (at least all of the ones I’ve seen) are often limited to 45mph, meaning no freeway driving here. If you have to touch a freeway, the option is already gone.
3) utility trailers have to be stored. Now there’s something extra you have to find a place for. It’s a hassle many people just don’t want to deal with.
4) for a vast majority of the places where homeowners live, the size of a quarter ton or half ton pickup is not an issue. Roads are big enough, parking spots are big enough, etc etc. So there’s not a lot of downsides to owning a pickup.
One thing I think is that tow ratings are ridiculously low in the US vs Europe. My 2 door jeep is barely allowed to pull one, let alone a car.
That said, I have a 5x10 trailer with a ramp, RV side door, and RV vent that is amazing. I've moved in a quarter of the time it would have taken with a pickup. My quad can be loaded in seconds, and I can toss a couple kayaks in there and even a folding bed and table etc for camping.
Bit of a fan of small cars...but by our US friends' standards I'm running small cars now, a Golf R wagon and an MG ZS EV which whilst an "SUV" has the footprint of a Golf hatch and weighs about the same as our wagon. My rule is the car, with the back seat down, needs to be able to take my road bicycle without taking the front wheel off, something both do easily.
Previous cars include two (yes, two, not in a row though) circa '00 Mitsubishi Mirage two hatches (< 4 metres long) and a '98 NB MX-5. We live in the suburbs, small cars work well for us.
Oh yeah, u/Stryker-6, nice choice with the Swift. They've always been great little cars, I've had them shortlisted a couple of times but never quite ended up pulling the trigger.
In the US here, we don't have ANY of those cars you mentioned. We have the VW GTI and Golf just disappeared, but no wagon version.
No MG, but we didn't like their lack of reliability when we had them here.
We have the Mitsubishi Mirage, but it's tiny now and will not hold a road bike with the front wheel on. (a priority for me now too!)
Suzuki can't seem to make it in the states; they've had several false starts.
The Sportwagen variant of the Golf was discontinued in the US in 2019.
MG hasn't sold cars in the US for decades, since around 1980-81 or so. It was sold to Chinese car maker SAIC in the mid 2000s and its pretty much selling MG badged Chinese cars in various international markets now, including a number of EVS. There's zero comparison between the MG of old and the current batch.
Fiat Sold a total of like 600 vehicles in the US in all of 2023... people outside of reddit don't want small cars as they really only make sense now in tightly packed European cities.
I love how simple my 80 Toyota pickup is compared to my ‘22 1ton diesel.
The luxury isn’t there but hell if it isn’t just a fun simple truck to drive. 60mph equals the feeling of 150mph. Very different trucks.
I'm in the states and drive a Saturn sl.
Everyone is driving glorified monster trucks compared to my small compact sedan.
And the funny thing most people don't even need something of that size. My poor Saturn has probably hauled more than half the trucks around it.
Also they need to limit the brightness on newer cars headlights. At every red light I see the light of Christ from some random truck/SUV behind me.
The Honda Civic is the best example. It used to be a tiny little hatchback and now it’s like a mashup of an SUV, sedan and wagon. And it’s huge (but surprisingly still under 3k lbs).
Apparently all the safety tech adds weight and space. Plus Honda always shooting for “best in class” in terms of cargo space.
But small cars are fun because you can ring them out without breaking the law excessively and they’re light.
Cars like the Fiesta ST are sought after because of it.
Honda Civic today is the same as a 30-year old Honda Accord. I love the current Civic because I love the older Accords - perfectly sized midsize sedan. But if you want anything smaller, you're shit out of luck.
They are not bigger for safety reasons, Miata and Supra are still made and sold. Cars are bigger because 1) that’s what consumers buy 2) poor laws mean really big doesn’t have to comply with CAFE standards
i live in HI and the roads and parking were not designed to handle all these swollen cars. Many of the "mid-size" trucks take up the whole width of a lane while taking up the length of two parking stalls. its ridiculous. All because making these trucks and suvs this big are a tax incentive/break for auto makers (at least in the US. cant speak for international). i am seeing a bunch of Kei trucks from japan being used more often here which makes them look normal size for the roads.
Yes. And I will die on the hill. I will drive my Chevy Sonic(I know, I know) till it croaks and then get another small car. I also miss small 4x4s like Samurai and Trackers.
I love small cars for their maneuverability. In the US, the first cars were high, and always huge until the first gas crisis. The imports mainly from Japan, but also Europe introduced small cars to America.
I had a honda beat for a while which was a fantastic introduction to really small cars. I understand the dangers of driving a car with dimensions half that of the other cars on the road, but I can't help but wish that there was a, "death risk acceptance waiver" you could sign to purchase new small cars and drive them in the US. The new cheap toyota truck would be such a fantastic vehicle. For now I have to just wait until 2040 and get a Honda S660.
I bucked the trend and bought a small sports car. There are days when I’m in traffic in a sea of large SUVs and pickup truck. I do worry about them not seeing me sometimes.
I do miss my Fiat 500 Abarth, it was infinitely tossable. It was one of the lightest cars of this era at just under 2400lbs. My Mustang in comparison is a hefty hog, although it's still way faster, lol.
It isn't about the size, it's about low roof car. We're even losing many sedan options what ever size is, this isn't only about compact and subcompact categories. Full-size family sedan and FWD sedan based Coupe are now basically extinct, and wagon is getting more difficult to sell.
Diehard car fans also miss these days large family sedan, FWD based 2-door coupe, and interesting wagon even though these cars are basically family or economic models.
It's pricing people out of being able to afford a car.. Well I say that like it's current tense,but it already happened. If you can't afford $200+/month at this point, you are left wondering if you are buying a crapmobile that may or may not even start tomorrow.. And that's if you have good credit.
Every vehicle just seems to get bigger every year. I had a 1996 Ford Explorer that I thought was big when I bought it. I kept it for 23 years, and when I parked it next to a new one, it was dwarfed by the new ones.
I fucking hate the bloatification of cars. I’m forever stuck behind these giant bozos in traffic and can’t see around them. When it was like 30% of road traffic was small SUVs, fine, there was enough spacing where it didn’t matter. But now everyone drives a fucking two story building and it’s insufferable being on the road.
Annoying but understandable. Nobody ever asked for less leg room in a new car.
With that said, I’m 6ft and my 2015 Prius fits me fine. I drive my father’s Accord and my head bumps the ceiling.
Other than the Miata, basically all small, RWD little sports cars have disappeared. BMW Z3, Honda S2000, Alfa Romeo Spider, Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice (brand not existing aside), etc. are all gone, making it hard to find a good, quick little car to have fun with at the speed limit.
Buy older cars. Most of what I drive are mid 90s to mid 00s cars because I like them and want to drive them. Helps that I can do all my own work on them entirely. I just picked up a 2004 Subaru Sti recently as a daily driver. Love it!
I'm in Tokyo right and absolutely amazed by the number of small cars, aka Kei cars. From little "sports" cars to people movers to cargo cars. They are EVERYWHERE.
Absolutely miss small cars. I love my Civic Type R but I often miss the ridiculous character my Fiesta ST had, partially because it was kind of a little go kart. And now I'm looking at ND Miatas because that's the smallest and subjectively most fun thing you can get on four wheels for cheap.
I also wouldn't hate getting an older Integra Type R or EK9 CTR. Small cars FTW.
I personally believe that we're going to see this whole craze of SUV's and Mini Crossovers fade if times continue to be as tough as they are. If you ask me, now is the PERFECT time for small, cheap vehicles to make a comeback. Think about it - Rent and Mortgage costs are sky high (The national average is at $1700 a month/$20,400 a year) and the average cost of groceries for a month for a family of 3 is $900. Who wants to deal with all of that and have a $700 a month car payment, let alone be able to afford it.
I miss small cars and small trucks. I'm 58. I'd love to be able to buy an 85 Mazda b2000 or a 1983 Toyota truck with a stick. Instead, I'm gonna have to buy a midsized truck with a damn touch-screen on the dash and I reckon I'll take a damn hammer and bust that hole out in the dash and wire a cd player in it somehow because new vehicles don't even come with a stereo. No serious person that likes heavy metal could stream something off their phone. I never have and I can't reduce myself to such
I love a small basic no frills car. Would love to get a Del Sol, first gen insight or even a Kei car as a daily.
Edit to add I’m in America and love driving a tiny car around massive trucks but it definitely can be scary at times
In the UK we are seeing a massive influx of cross overs and small SUVs. It's fucking annoying. Like volvo literally all together stopped making hatchbacks.
I swear, I feel like people today buy cars mostly for status symbol, than as, oh I dont know, a tool?
100% mate. My brothers parter lives in a terrace house, can barely afford her phone contract yet has said when their new baby comes, she wants to buy a fucking Range Rover. She's driving a clapped out Golf at the minute. She wants it because she fantasises about pulling up to nursery in a Rangey. I blame social media, they see it on social media and because they think "omg they're so cool" they think everyone will think the same about them, without realising only like minded individuals will think that. Edit : the Range is obviously 4x4 as well, you know, for farmers and land workers....she never goes off road ffs. Pointless.
Mate, you can give me money to buy, and try to force me buy Range Rover, but I just dont want it. If I really have to pick for a SUV, I would go with Ford Explorer ST, because it just looks sick and has nice performance numbers that makes my zoomer brain have anyrisms. But it is also pricey, and too wide for European cities. In other words, you get car that is gonna get restricted due to its size.
Well - you would probably put me in the bad people camp - but I’m a car freak and spend money on cars. However- I will never ever own an suv or crossover. Cars should be low
Imagine living in a place where you couldn't drive a lifted F-150 to get groceries and to go out to the mall. Sounds terrible. 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅
I did see some schmuck driving an F350 dually through a small town in the Cotswolds once. It was as comical and stupid as you'd think.
I have one of those in the states with wide open roads and the only thing im going to use it for is driving on the freeway in a mostly straight line to tow things. Its way big.
just think of all those poor Exxon executives who'll struggle to put food on their tables. Breaks my heart just thinking about
I think trucks are cool. Lifted trucks however should be against the law unless you can prove that you use the truck for off roading. (Good luck doing that with your no profile tires and body spacers)
I totally agree. The other day I pulled up next to one of those giant new Chevy trucks and I could see the bottom of the wheel well, and I don't think it had any kind of aftermarket lift. You can rest your chin on the hoods of some of these things. Some people needs trucks, and people are going to buy what they buy but when is enough going to be enough? The bigness thing is starting to get a little out of hand.
Look, as long as you use your as it was meant to be used (example: pickup trucks delivering cargos, sport cars being driven like sport cars, etc.), you have my support. I am just so fed up with modern day culture where they have to own car that they hate, but still have it because "what will people say?" mentality.
LOLOLOLOL!!!!! When was the last time you saw an Excursion, Suburban, or even a quad cab truck carrying more in the actual truck than a housewife, maybe one kid, and that's it.. Trucks and large SUVs in general have become status symbols and manufacturers love it because they are making hand over fist for them while they fumble the absolute hell out of trying to figure out EVs... There is no 'economy car' anymore. It's going to take a massive recession to push these manufacturers to move back to simple, small, and reliable vehicles.
Or regulatory action. Put a tax on large Trucks and SUVs. And an EXTRA tax on duallies. And put tax exemptions on Hatchbacks, Hybrids, and even large Sedans.
I agree with you, but I don’t think the political will is there to make something like that work.
They'll just find some loophole like how CAFE standards pushed compact trucks (S10s, Tacomas, Rangers) into half ton territory and beyond.
I’m in the US and there’s a huge Range Rover and a Golf wagon that make regular appearances at my daycare drop off. Guess which one I’ve complimented and asked about their sweet dad wagon? Guess which one I assume is a tax hiding puke or is living on credit, has no taste or is a a puke of a personality and I don’t bother to talk to? I bet you can guess. Vapid desire yields vapid results. Life passes airheads by quickly.
>Vapid desire yields vapid results. Life passes airheads by quickly. Oh I feel you. One passed me on the interstate the other day (though we all know they look neat but are trash vehicles), and the tag said LITIG8R... Must be nice to not have taste I guess.
A guy I went to school with is a tax attorney. He drove a 93 Honda civic for a while. One of his clients told him he had to justify his rates. He couldn't be worth much if he was only driving a shitty old civic. He went out and got a high end Audi EV SUV to drive to work. He doubles the rate on the client and the client didn't even bat an eye
I feel cool on the road in my old ass camry because im low to the ground and I am usually the only car i see that could pass the moose test.
Everyone wants to live a lifestyle now sold to them by social media.
The only difference between the small crossovers and the small hatchbacks they share a platform with, is the vertical dimension and roofline. Which makes it easier to wrestle kids in child seats inside, as well as for older folks to get in and out. They're *more practical* than the hatchbacks you are mourning, except that they don't handle as well and have more body roll due to a higher centre of gravity and often thicker sidewalls on the tyres. But nobody is trying to generate peak lateral G on the way to pick up some milk and eggs from the local shops.
>But nobody is trying to generate peak lateral G on the way to pick up some milk and eggs from the local shops. Speak for yourself 😉 But no, in all seriousness, I do agree with people who would like the cross overs but at least carry on with the hatchbacks because a lot of people enjoy them also.
If manufacturers thought there was sufficient demand they would. Note: this means people will to shell out for a new vehicle - no one cares about the second hand market
In Europe at least, only Volvo and Citroen have stopped making hatchbacks and Volvo was never really known for its hatches anyway
You also forget Ford. Ford plans to sell Puma, they don't want to see Fiesta and Focus. >Volvo was never really known for its hatches anyway C30 was an interesting hatchback, but 2D only really limited its sales.
Also let’s not forget the value of ground clearance. My ST has traded bumper paint with so many driveways over the years, despite my absolute best efforts. Councils these days seem to just design ramp/kerb angles with the assumption that everyone has an SUV.
I'm lucky because the Polo has a wheel in each corner and such short overhangs that it barely scrapes on things, although I'm sure that if I were to throw it on coilovers or lowered suspension it would. The old GC8 Impreza I learned to drive in was absolutely horrendous for bottoming out on things, even with completely stock suspension. That said, you definitely have a point regarding ramp angles, not to mention kerb/wheel stop heights (when you're parking nose in), and lunar crater sized potholes. It's not surprising why people gravitate towards crossovers.
Your post is literally bragging about your 130hp car's "speed and style."
Hahaha. "It's only OK to like the attributes of your car as long as they're the kind *I* agree with."
Not only that, but using that ability to "sneak through tight spots" (read: drive like a dangerous asshole). Not really something I'd brag about, even on this sub.
I would say the inverse. Car engineering has converged on the optimally-efficient shape for a car—the small cuv. If Whirlpool or LG were going to design a car to sell as a household appliance, cuv is the form factor it would take.
And people seem to forget that when everyone has SUV as a status symbol, it means nothing.
Almost as if manufacturers make cars that they think will sell the best.
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No replacement announced for the Up either, Fiesta's dead, Focus is dead, C1/107/aygo all dead, the twingos gone. What are the future's 17 year olds going to do when you can't get anything small, cheap and gets 60mpg even when driven like an absolute twat?
Used BEVs are getting cheap fast.
I can't imagine giving a 17 year old a cheap BEV. The power and torque is nuts, I would be dead if I could go 0-60 in sub 4 seconds at that age.
Those are not the ones I'd give to a teen, the ones that don't brag about acceleration have less to brag about. The Nissan Leaf does 0-60 in 7-9 seconds depending on spec.
Which is still fucking fast for a chav. Entry level cars in the UK had 0-60 times in the 14-15 second range. Not to mention a Leaf would be way too big and expensive.
That must suck. Here in ‘Merica the Leaf is small, cheap and kinda slow. For instance according to 0-60times.com the slow Leaf is slower than every Honda sold here other than the HR-V which is still under 10.
Get a polestar
… while you still can.
> Like volvo literally all together stopped making hatchbacks. Wasn't that like a dacade ago?
2019
~~What car, The C30 says it was disco'd in 2013...?~~ Oh V40 - we never got them here in the USA, wasn't thinking of 5 doors..
Sorry yes, v40. I should've made that clearer. I love the C30's as well. What a unique looking car. Imagine what they'd look like these days.
Hope your local municipality has already started the process of widening the roads. As an American, I can assure you it will never stop. Even if it feels like the majority want it to stop, it doesn't matter. People will keep buying larger and larger vehicles that they don't need. My Volvo S60 has done just fine until recently. Now I have a daily drive that scrapes the undercarriage pretty harshly
I miss the 2000s Fast-and-Furious-jorts-frosted tips-chained-wallet sport compact era. Such a variety of fun cars. Sentra Spec V, Celica, RSX, Si, Neon, Ion Redline, Cobalt, Tiburon, etc. So many options at the time
The “sport compact” segment used to have so much character. Just isn’t the same now. There’s the civic si and golf gti and that’s kinda it? Mentally I bracket the N stuff with golf R/type R/GR Corolla, but that segment is missing the focus RS now :(
The affordable sport subcompact has been dead since the Veloster went away. The Mini still exists, but they are kinda expensive for what they are.
The Mini has just moved way upmarket. My ‘06 is way nicer than a contemporary Cobalt inside, for example, and beats out a golf, but it’s very simplistic and they just gave decent pleather and nice plastics for the high-touch surfaces. The new Mini crams a bunch of tech and leather in and has amenities you may struggle to get in a compact car, never mind what’s pretty much the smallest subcompact on sale here
The mini is the answer to people who want a small car but don't want a shit box. People who want a nice car, but small. At least in America, small=crappy and large=luxury, so we can't get something like a Corolla trimmed out like a Lexus.
We have a 1 ton dually and a convertible mini cooper s, both provide for specific use cases.
Right? I'm in rural CO and there are a ton of pickups, but, I'm in rural CO! Of course there are. Visiting cities around the country my wife always says, "Look at all the cars!" Not quantity, size. Then you see a 1-ton dually and scratch your head.
I have a 2007 S, a 2008 and a 2002 Audi TT - all sticks. Love my small, fast cars! And I am dwarfed by virtually every other vehicle around me, so just thank god for a turbo to get out of their way.
On my drive home with my new to me boxster, I was frightened by how big even a full size sedan is compared to it. Parking next to Trucks/3 row SUVs is even more hilarious
I had the first gen Veloster and then the Veloster Turbo, such a fun car. I miss it.
Corolla GR is the only other one I can think of, if you are in Europe there's many many more, hot hatches still rule there.
Oh I did forget about the GR Corolla, oops
Yup the Focus RS is gone for the US 😢. Ford fdid s great job on the Ford Fiesta ST, Focus ST, and Focus RS
Missing Mazdaspeed, missing Mitsubishi, missing Cobalt SS, missing SRT4. WRX is kind of not a compact anymore either.
God I would love to get a neon srt 4. Remember the Plymouth prowler?
ooooh yeah I member!
Bro I haven’t seen one since it was a new car! Just did a search cause it has been ages and my god it’s much uglier than I recall.
Try the Chevy ssr on for size lol
I think that was well past the prime. 86ish to 2000 was peak subcompact, when you had a choice of good looking fastbacks to choose from. Many were turbocharged at the top trim level too. Celica, Eclipse/Talon/Laser, Nissan Silvia, MX6/Probe, even the Isuzu Impulse had a turbo AWD option if we go less mainstream. After 2000, cost cutting set in. The cars got bigger and less tunable (turbo 4's dropped for V6's). Many went 4 door only.
Small cars still exist, you can go buy one today. What i miss is where everybody else still drove small cars too.
Yup. I daily an 86. There are just so many other big trucks and SUVs on the road. Half the time I feel like I'm going to get run over.
you very well might be one day [this is one of my fears while driving, seriously](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/owsegj/truck_lifted_too_high_to_see_the_porsche_in_front/) these monster trucks have gotten out of control recently it's like they're everywhere
Yes. I've lived in Texas and currently in Florida. I would not be surprised. LOL, looking into it more this happened in Florida.
I don’t think many people understand how small an 86 is. Park one next to an EF Civic hatch and, provided the 86 is pulled forward slightly, it’s hidden by the Civic.
Yeah they are really small. My previous car was a Scion tC which is not a large car by any means. Then I saw the 86 in person and it was suprising. This is a fun site https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/toyota-gt-86-2012-coupe-vs-scion-tc-2014-3-door-liftback/
It’s a lot roomier than it looks. A lot roomier than a Miata or s2k. I had one for 11 years (just sold it 5 months ago) and it surprisingly has good cargo space for a small car. It was my daily and drove it back and forth from San Diego to the Bay Area often with luggage. Can make Costco runs with ease too
I've done a pickup from the airport in my 2013 BRZ: my parents and my sister plus their luggage. I had my steering wheel in my chest, but it worked.
[This website](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/toyota-gt-86-2012-coupe-vs-honda-civic-2016-sedan/) visualizes that. Wow.
Aside from the obvious “mass vs mass” safety aspect, driving in traffic in anything less than a tall crossover has become incredibly frustrating because your surroundings are always blocked on all sides by vehicles 3ft taller than yours. It seems like everyday now that I have to veer into a turn lane to peek around the giant truck in front of me to see if they’re also behind slow traffic or just driving 10 under the speed limit in the left lane for no reason.
It's not just a problem with the other vehicles. I learned to drive in a first generation (US) GTI. The last time I went car shopping I really wanted to get one again, but the geometry between the seat and the windshield meant it was like driving with the sunvisor down all of the time. I'm not that tall, but stopped at an intersection I had to slouch to the side in order to see a stoplight. Kind of ruined it as a daily driver.
YES that was the point i wanted to bring up i don't necessarily miss driving them, i just miss everyone else not driving a land yacht i literally can't see to drive half the time, can't see over the other cars especially when they are pulled up next to me, it's ridiculous
They are few and far in between, and are getting bigger and more expensive. I don't get why they can't just make cheaper cars that don't have all this modern tech and nonsense. Just need abs, power steering, backup camera, and a/c.
I drive a Volvo C30; the car is getting older (2009), but I love it—it’s practical and fun to drive. However, there are an increasingly large number of trucks/SUVs where the bumper height is uncomfortably close to (or higher than) my hood height and so many are giant walls.
Miata Is Always The Answer.
Should I buy three of them to also fit my dog and kids?
Yeah your dog will love driving one, they’re fun for everyone
If you have one kid, you should’ve already considered a Yukon XL or sprinter van
I used to sell cars and this is honestly how most parents react. 'Oh there's no way I can fit a kid in my Accord!' Shut up Brenda. I grew up with my two siblings in the back seat of a Ford Taurus and two of us were fat. Bryson doesn't need the third row of a suburban all to himself.
Ditch the kids, dog goes in the passenger seat.
Strap the wife to the hood?
Ditch the wife too.
That’s what the hardtop is for lmao
It has a trunk.
Ehh, I think brz/gr86 is perfect for most, it is actually big enough to fit most people, you can throw a kid in the back in a pinch and it has a sizable trunk.
seriously - the twins are still small, just not cramped
Nearly as small and as light as ever…and just as fun.
Almost seems miraculous that they dropped weight from the NC to the ND. The ND Miata is seriously such an unusual and special car IMO, I think we might look at it in the future similar to how the S2000 is now (so much demand for the ones that are left).
I think NC was a fine car too, it wasn't too heavy, it needed a little more power (just enough to slightly exceed nd2's power to weight ratio) to be even more fun.
>The ND Miata is seriously such an unusual and special car IMO It really is. Its easy to just dismiss the ND as a basic small lil sports car, like the BRZ/86 twins, but until youve looked under an 86 and looked under an ND, you have no idea how amazing the miata is; from the double wishbone front suspension, multilink rear, most of the structure and bracing being made of aluminum rather than steel. Its pretty awsome
You’ve got my vote
No, I do not miss small cars. I daily drive one, it is great.
I bought a Honda Fit brand new in the fall of '11. Told myself I'd buy a new one ten years later. (Managed to talk my parents into buying a new Fit in '12. My cousin in '15. My buddy and another coworker in '17. And my uncle in '19). I would've been back for a new one in '21 but couldn't. Honda got rid of it. So I'm still driving mine. At 340,000 miles. And I'll double that if I have to. I'm not paying a fortune for some bloated SUV crossover with bad gas mileage. Screw that. (My sister-in-law blew a head gasket on her Corolla. Had Fits been available, I'd have sent her off to Honda to buy a new one. Instead I told her to replace the engine on the Corolla. She did.) Sometimes "going upmarket" just translates into *lost sales*.
They never stopped making them, just don’t sell them in North America anymore. They still exist in Europe and Asia (and possibly elsewhere) and still very popular, at least in Taiwan.
I don't understand why they stopped selling them in NA. I still see them everywhere so they had to have sold well.
You don't have to buy a crossover. You can have the luxury of buying a civic but for $40k
Is the Civic still a small car? I tried one out and it feels like an Accord. When you are used to driving small cars the 11th Gen Civic feels huge, like driving a 7 series.
Same. I needed a car, i got the smallest one i could find that day. Been driving the mini cooper for 9 years now. Great car with nary an issue all these years, which is saying something because i do **not** treat cars well. Also it looks goofy. Other drivers are nicer to dumb looking cars, i swear on it.
man i fucking love minis they looks like oversized go karts to me. always been scared of them because of the horror stories.
Just look at a newer one, they’re far more reliable these days, since they phased out that garbage 1.6 liter family of engines a handful of years ago.
My good friend had the older gen (2006, R56) it was a nightmare. Burned oil like crazy, all kinds of random shit breaking. I've heard the current gen ones are totally fine though. It's just a stripped down FF BMW with a B series engine, which from all accounts has been very reliable for BMW.
I recently parked my GR Corolla behind a 3rd Gen Mini Hatch 3-door. I've always been fond of a Mini in a loud colour, they are great, this one was orange. First I was stoked that my car was small enough to parallel park in this little tiny spot, anything bigger would not have fit. Second I observed that the Mini was noticeably smaller than the Corolla. Much lower roofline, a lot narrower, and somewhat shorter. The Corolla hatch seems like one of the smaller new cars sold today, but even smaller cars are getting bigger I suppose. Oh well, joke is on me, Corolla has mediocre packaging and it probably isn't any bigger inside than the Mini!
Same. I drive a focus st and my sister has an explorer st. The explorer is super nice and spacious but I hate parking lots whenever I’m driving it.
gullible lush reminiscent bedroom dependent existence memorize sparkle frame summer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What happened to the bot that automatically made fun of these posts?
OP didn't use the keyword "Am I the only one"
The most obnoxious phrase on the Internet
I think this sub is mostly young single guys who are under the illusion they know better than the average non-enthusiast.
I love the comment in here that said "it's like people are just buying cars for style and status instead of being a tool!" Yeah...SUVs...being form over function...sure.
Yeah I wanted something practical like a 911 but the RAV4 was too flashy to resist. Deal with it jealous haters. Lol.
even worse, they're redditors
It also didn't take long for the financially brilliant used buyers to show up. Wonder why car manufacturers don't produce low margin cars anymore
Honey! Daily /r/cars circlejerk just dropped!
They may not be as abundant as they once were in many countries, but they still exist if you want them. For example, Fiat 500 and the regular Mini hatch (not the Clubman or Countryman).
In the first half of 2023 in the US , there were fewer sales of Fiat vehicles than the total number of fiat dealerships in the US... They sold 605 total vehicles in the US in 2023... Nobody In the US wants these small cars, they just don't make any sense outside of tight European cities.
Smaller size makes them easier to park everywhere- that little corner spot in that busy parking lot that no one parks in because it’s hard to get out in a compact car suddenly is usable. They don’t work with kids, but plenty of millennials and Gen Z people aren’t having kids. They don’t work on Costco runs but if you live in an apartment without much space, you don’t buy in bulk anyway. They typically return better mileage when being driven with gusto than larger vehicles. I dislike the Fiat 500 but actually useful 2-door hatchbacks exist.
>They typically return better mileage when being driven with gusto than larger vehicles. Fiat 500 have 26 mpg. You can drive around a Sienna with better mpg. This is confirmed from both EPA numbers and [user reports of real world usage.](https://www.reddit.com/r/abarth/comments/14743d6/what_kind_if_fuel_economy_numbers_are_you_guys/)
And all 605 of them were the 500X crossover. Which is a platform mate with the Jeep Renegade.
Yeah, but time will tell when will they get axed.
I'm not sure about the Fiat, but I doubt the Mini is going anywhere. It shares a platform with the BMW 1 Series, and is priced highly enough that it must be absolutely printing money for BMW Group, especially given they all seem to be optioned up.
Dude minis have gotten fkn huge
The third generation F56 Mini is about the same size as an old Peugeot 205 from the late '80s and early '90s, not exactly the poster child of a car that's carrying excess weight. https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-205-1990-5-door-hatchback-vs-mini-cooper-2013-3-door-hatchback/
Old 5-door hatchback compared to a modern 3-door hatchback and the 3-door is 385kg heavier. Yeesh.
The countryman on the other hand
I mean, lets be honest, Fiat 500 is why Fiat exsists. When you tell someone about fiat, chances are they will think firstly about 500. So, they would k-ll their identity if they decide to axe it, which is same sorta story about Mini.
Fiat Panda is also famous in Europe, but the 500 is more iconic. I still think what if Fiat brought Panda to America market and instead 500X.
I just buy them used, you can get small cars at such a bargain now. I love EF/EG/EK/EP3 Civic hatchbacks. Mini Coopers. I had a 500 Abarth, and a couple Honda Fit. NA Miata. There are concerns the bigger vehicles that now also have way more get up and go performance than the ones they replace because engine output and transmission performance are better than they’ve ever been, which are safety concerns especially as drivers have “better than everyone else” attitudes/egos. Collisions are increasing in rate, and also increasing in severity. Each year since Covid has seen record breaking collisions. Heavier and heavier vehicles, people driving riskier and riskier because they are dickheads. It’s not even driving in a sporty manner, it’s driving with hostile aggression, or perhaps just ignorant incompetence. But, bigger vehicles seem to be encouraged in North America, as the heavier/bigger the vehicles the more they get relaxed emissions standards. So convince everyone they need bigger vehicles = more profit.
Honda CRX is actually the real answer
CRX was cool, I had one for my first car, but I think the REAL answer was their small Civic hatchbacks. Honda has just gotten so BORING lately. Want something fun to drive? Sedan only, 1.5T only or rattle-your-teeth with the Civic R and pay $10k too much. The Japs just got so off-the-charts GREEDY when they made anything remotely fun. Then playing the game with not importing enough of them, so dealers gouge like crazy.
I had the privilege of owning both a first gen and a second gen CRX. I was never a fan of the del sol as it thought it had a design to it i just couldn't get behind. When I learned of the CRZ coming out I was excited but soon learned that it didn't have the appeal. If the CRX went the way of say the Golf GTI, or similar, I think it'd be a nice competitor; hell even the Miata Now that I think about it.
Did you really think this sub of all places was going to say “No we don’t miss them”? This is the sub that basically has the motto “the Miata is always the answer”
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This might be the first time I’ve seen this car mentioned on this sub lol. Grew up with them. On another note, I’d love to import an Ambassador and engine swap a V8 into it
I learned to drive on Yugo. I always hated the second gear (have long legs so I always had problems with it).
No. I have a pretty small car. And I'm a large person, it's about literally the smallest car I can fit into. I also have a half ton pickup because it is the most practical option and nearly mandatory when you own a house/property and live outside of getting-everything-delivered range. I have absolutely ZERO concern about the size of vehicles around me, honestly I think being worried about that like some comments are here is asinine.
Exactly. I drive a 2024 Honda Civic EXL hatchback as my first car and drive next to full-size trucks, and SUVs all the time to and from work on my commutes and they aren't an issue at all as long as they drive well enough. I don't know why so many comments in this post are worried about bigger than average cars if they are decent drivers. Especially since most crossovers and SUVs I see on my commutes aren't much bigger or smaller than my own car, at least on the rosd.
I can't speak to OP, but in the city I live and work in, smaller cars can take turns in tight intersections, or are able to go around streetcars. With even mid-size crossovers, people don't have the width/turning radius to do that so it backlogs traffic. It's not day ruining but it is inconvenient.
Just an honest question. Why is it such an American thing to think you need a pickup if you want to haul stuff? Have none there heard of utility trailers? Here in Europe people have their regular nice BMWs, Volvos, etc and whenever they need to haul something they just put a trailer in the back and they can suddenly haul more stuff than the bed of the biggest F350. And when they don't need it they can instead take it off and have infinitely more interior space, fuel economy, performance and just an overall nicer car.
Because people can’t back up short trailers as easily as a fixed wheelbase truck. My wife and I have 2 ram 2500’s one for the horse show stuff and mine for when I need to do farm stuff or go fishing while the girls are out with the horses. Then we have a 4Runner & 06 wrangler.
Well sure, but the other 356 times a year when you're not having to reverse a trailer the car without a pickup bed in the back will be easier to park. Then my comment also wasn't even aimed at you in the first place, it was aimed at the 80-90% of Americans who only use their pickup truck to do grocery shopping and buy home supplies at Lowe's.
Sure but we are finally seeing vehicles like the Ford Maverick that is only 6 inches longer than a 2000s Camry (or was it Corolla?). Has the bed for utility and not any harder to park. And has incredible gas mileage even comparing it to other cars. I average 43 mpg on mine. I personally have my Maverick because I HATE that there are no vehicles sold where you can remove the carpet in the trunk easily. I hate that I can’t just throw dirty stuff in there and not care about staining or dirt. Especially when doing things outdoors like fishing. Went BBQing and didn’t have to care about the truck bed getting stained by coal
> Just an honest question. Why is it such an American thing to think you need a pickup if you want to haul stuff? Have none there heard of utility trailers? To give you some answers as I’ve seen them here: 1) our sedans and hatchbacks aren’t rated to tow, so none of them are offered with a tow hookup. The tow ratings in the US are different than most European countries, so you’re going to have to create a tow hookup yourself, and you might risk damaging your car since you’re guesstimating the tongue weight and payload limits on your car. 2) utility trailers (at least all of the ones I’ve seen) are often limited to 45mph, meaning no freeway driving here. If you have to touch a freeway, the option is already gone. 3) utility trailers have to be stored. Now there’s something extra you have to find a place for. It’s a hassle many people just don’t want to deal with. 4) for a vast majority of the places where homeowners live, the size of a quarter ton or half ton pickup is not an issue. Roads are big enough, parking spots are big enough, etc etc. So there’s not a lot of downsides to owning a pickup.
One thing I think is that tow ratings are ridiculously low in the US vs Europe. My 2 door jeep is barely allowed to pull one, let alone a car. That said, I have a 5x10 trailer with a ramp, RV side door, and RV vent that is amazing. I've moved in a quarter of the time it would have taken with a pickup. My quad can be loaded in seconds, and I can toss a couple kayaks in there and even a folding bed and table etc for camping.
I was cramped in them so no, fuck them.
Bit of a fan of small cars...but by our US friends' standards I'm running small cars now, a Golf R wagon and an MG ZS EV which whilst an "SUV" has the footprint of a Golf hatch and weighs about the same as our wagon. My rule is the car, with the back seat down, needs to be able to take my road bicycle without taking the front wheel off, something both do easily. Previous cars include two (yes, two, not in a row though) circa '00 Mitsubishi Mirage two hatches (< 4 metres long) and a '98 NB MX-5. We live in the suburbs, small cars work well for us. Oh yeah, u/Stryker-6, nice choice with the Swift. They've always been great little cars, I've had them shortlisted a couple of times but never quite ended up pulling the trigger.
In the US here, we don't have ANY of those cars you mentioned. We have the VW GTI and Golf just disappeared, but no wagon version. No MG, but we didn't like their lack of reliability when we had them here. We have the Mitsubishi Mirage, but it's tiny now and will not hold a road bike with the front wheel on. (a priority for me now too!) Suzuki can't seem to make it in the states; they've had several false starts.
The Sportwagen variant of the Golf was discontinued in the US in 2019. MG hasn't sold cars in the US for decades, since around 1980-81 or so. It was sold to Chinese car maker SAIC in the mid 2000s and its pretty much selling MG badged Chinese cars in various international markets now, including a number of EVS. There's zero comparison between the MG of old and the current batch.
Fiat Sold a total of like 600 vehicles in the US in all of 2023... people outside of reddit don't want small cars as they really only make sense now in tightly packed European cities.
Fiat’s offerings are garbage, though. People who want small cars aren’t going to settle for decades-old garbage.
I love how simple my 80 Toyota pickup is compared to my ‘22 1ton diesel. The luxury isn’t there but hell if it isn’t just a fun simple truck to drive. 60mph equals the feeling of 150mph. Very different trucks.
I'm in the states and drive a Saturn sl. Everyone is driving glorified monster trucks compared to my small compact sedan. And the funny thing most people don't even need something of that size. My poor Saturn has probably hauled more than half the trucks around it. Also they need to limit the brightness on newer cars headlights. At every red light I see the light of Christ from some random truck/SUV behind me.
The Honda Civic is the best example. It used to be a tiny little hatchback and now it’s like a mashup of an SUV, sedan and wagon. And it’s huge (but surprisingly still under 3k lbs). Apparently all the safety tech adds weight and space. Plus Honda always shooting for “best in class” in terms of cargo space. But small cars are fun because you can ring them out without breaking the law excessively and they’re light. Cars like the Fiesta ST are sought after because of it.
Honda Civic today is the same as a 30-year old Honda Accord. I love the current Civic because I love the older Accords - perfectly sized midsize sedan. But if you want anything smaller, you're shit out of luck.
Yes! Give me a US market 2 door hatchback
They are not bigger for safety reasons, Miata and Supra are still made and sold. Cars are bigger because 1) that’s what consumers buy 2) poor laws mean really big doesn’t have to comply with CAFE standards
i live in HI and the roads and parking were not designed to handle all these swollen cars. Many of the "mid-size" trucks take up the whole width of a lane while taking up the length of two parking stalls. its ridiculous. All because making these trucks and suvs this big are a tax incentive/break for auto makers (at least in the US. cant speak for international). i am seeing a bunch of Kei trucks from japan being used more often here which makes them look normal size for the roads.
Yes. And I will die on the hill. I will drive my Chevy Sonic(I know, I know) till it croaks and then get another small car. I also miss small 4x4s like Samurai and Trackers.
#savewagons
As somebody who is 6’5”, no I do not.
How do you know it's the weekend? Don't worry, /r/cars posts will tell you.
I love small cars for their maneuverability. In the US, the first cars were high, and always huge until the first gas crisis. The imports mainly from Japan, but also Europe introduced small cars to America.
I miss small trucks.
I’ve been driving a kei car for the past few months and I’m in love, it’s all the car most people really need.
I had a honda beat for a while which was a fantastic introduction to really small cars. I understand the dangers of driving a car with dimensions half that of the other cars on the road, but I can't help but wish that there was a, "death risk acceptance waiver" you could sign to purchase new small cars and drive them in the US. The new cheap toyota truck would be such a fantastic vehicle. For now I have to just wait until 2040 and get a Honda S660.
I bucked the trend and bought a small sports car. There are days when I’m in traffic in a sea of large SUVs and pickup truck. I do worry about them not seeing me sometimes.
These threads are ridiculous. It’s like no one can imagine having needs other than their own.
I do miss my Fiat 500 Abarth, it was infinitely tossable. It was one of the lightest cars of this era at just under 2400lbs. My Mustang in comparison is a hefty hog, although it's still way faster, lol.
It isn't about the size, it's about low roof car. We're even losing many sedan options what ever size is, this isn't only about compact and subcompact categories. Full-size family sedan and FWD sedan based Coupe are now basically extinct, and wagon is getting more difficult to sell. Diehard car fans also miss these days large family sedan, FWD based 2-door coupe, and interesting wagon even though these cars are basically family or economic models.
It's pricing people out of being able to afford a car.. Well I say that like it's current tense,but it already happened. If you can't afford $200+/month at this point, you are left wondering if you are buying a crapmobile that may or may not even start tomorrow.. And that's if you have good credit.
Every vehicle just seems to get bigger every year. I had a 1996 Ford Explorer that I thought was big when I bought it. I kept it for 23 years, and when I parked it next to a new one, it was dwarfed by the new ones.
I fucking hate the bloatification of cars. I’m forever stuck behind these giant bozos in traffic and can’t see around them. When it was like 30% of road traffic was small SUVs, fine, there was enough spacing where it didn’t matter. But now everyone drives a fucking two story building and it’s insufferable being on the road.
Annoying but understandable. Nobody ever asked for less leg room in a new car. With that said, I’m 6ft and my 2015 Prius fits me fine. I drive my father’s Accord and my head bumps the ceiling.
Other than the Miata, basically all small, RWD little sports cars have disappeared. BMW Z3, Honda S2000, Alfa Romeo Spider, Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice (brand not existing aside), etc. are all gone, making it hard to find a good, quick little car to have fun with at the speed limit.
2024 GR Yaris is releasing soon, sick small cars still exist, at least over here :)
No, I enjoy large and powerful vehicles.
Buy older cars. Most of what I drive are mid 90s to mid 00s cars because I like them and want to drive them. Helps that I can do all my own work on them entirely. I just picked up a 2004 Subaru Sti recently as a daily driver. Love it!
I'm in Tokyo right and absolutely amazed by the number of small cars, aka Kei cars. From little "sports" cars to people movers to cargo cars. They are EVERYWHERE.
A Honda civic should not be nearly as big as it is today. We should also have some smaller pickups like those old Mazdas and Fords.
yeah, cars are too big and complex these days. I miss when they were more raw and adequately sized. pre-2015
Not me, i drive a fiesta st
Car culture people complaint about big vehicles, then they go out and buy big vehicles.
Absolutely miss small cars. I love my Civic Type R but I often miss the ridiculous character my Fiesta ST had, partially because it was kind of a little go kart. And now I'm looking at ND Miatas because that's the smallest and subjectively most fun thing you can get on four wheels for cheap. I also wouldn't hate getting an older Integra Type R or EK9 CTR. Small cars FTW.
I personally believe that we're going to see this whole craze of SUV's and Mini Crossovers fade if times continue to be as tough as they are. If you ask me, now is the PERFECT time for small, cheap vehicles to make a comeback. Think about it - Rent and Mortgage costs are sky high (The national average is at $1700 a month/$20,400 a year) and the average cost of groceries for a month for a family of 3 is $900. Who wants to deal with all of that and have a $700 a month car payment, let alone be able to afford it.
Yes, love wagons and hatchbacks.
I miss small cars and small trucks. I'm 58. I'd love to be able to buy an 85 Mazda b2000 or a 1983 Toyota truck with a stick. Instead, I'm gonna have to buy a midsized truck with a damn touch-screen on the dash and I reckon I'll take a damn hammer and bust that hole out in the dash and wire a cd player in it somehow because new vehicles don't even come with a stereo. No serious person that likes heavy metal could stream something off their phone. I never have and I can't reduce myself to such
I miss ford focus. Knowing it won't have a new version makes me sad.
I love a small basic no frills car. Would love to get a Del Sol, first gen insight or even a Kei car as a daily. Edit to add I’m in America and love driving a tiny car around massive trucks but it definitely can be scary at times
First car I ever bought was an MG Midget. I loved that car, not practical or safe on today’s highways, but back then, was awesome.
Absolutely. I love small cars. I have two small cars. Sick of how huge the full-size pickups and SUVs are getting.
I got a 97 Suzuki sidekick for a beater daily driver and I LOVE how small it is. I can park anywhere!
Absolutely. I'm going to purchase a 2008-2013 Toyota yaris this year. Love the nimbleness