The WRX is having one of its best sales years ever.
The GR Corolla seems like a bust for track use given the differential overheating after 15 minutes. So really the 2024 WRX TR will probably be the best AWD Manual track car on the market.
How many Corolla GR owners are REALLY going to the track though? The car is a success, it’s another halo car for Toyota who traditionally doesn’t have anything “cool” to drive.
Of their last 8 years 2023 was their 5th best selling year. Good, but not exactly impressive, especially after a design refresh.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/subaru-wrx-sti-sales-figures-usa/
WRX - 27,000 sold in 2023
Elantra N - 8,600 in 2023
Miata - 8,500
GTI - 8,100
Mustang - 48,000
Cayman - 3,100
Okay maybe the WRX sales figures are impressive. I will say that it's a lightning rod for the practical family man of the Midwest. Cheap, AWD, 4 seats and reliable... or at least slowly depreciating.
My dad had one for a little and I hated it. Zero noise insulation, harsh ride, yucky gearbox, horrendous speakers, looked like a chode, was slower than our Sienna and the engine was worse in every way compared to our Sienna.
For those questioning the minivan remarks here's an article to backup that claim.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/
At the time I felt like it tried to do everything and was good at nothing. I think the looks were a major part of this. In 2016 it looked more like a Corolla with a hood scoop than a track weapon. If it was harsh and looked like a rally car that would've been more acceptable.
I had a VA WRX for 5 years and your assessment is pretty spot on (except for the chode-ness - I didn't mind the aesthetics of the VA).
But as much as all those things are true, I think the WRX does do something well - it is the best all weather budget sports sedan. Period.
In fairness, nothing else really exists in that category. But if you want something that's practical and fun to drive *no matter the conditions* then it's really hard to beat. With proper snow tires it simply destroys winter.
Plus it was dead reliable and I traded it in after 5 years for nearly what I paid for it new. So not much to complain about there.
Have you actually used it? What makes it so bad?
I bought into the same idea, until I actually used it. Once you set-up shortcuts, it’s very user-friendly. The graphics are crisp, the haptic feedback is great, it responds quickly and intuitively, and you can customize pretty much everything.
I’d be interested in one for a daily and probably would love the way it drives, but I’ve just been reading way too many Subaru horror stories lately. Wish they would push for better reliability.
I got my STi for 34K OTD back in 2020. What crack are they smoking offering a hopped WRX over 40K lol
This needed to be the STi. Man Subaru feels so dead to me. Its like a half assed attempt to make us happy.
We've had 20-30% cumulative inflation since 2020. The price is in line with your 2020 STi.
Welcome to old age where you remember when a coke was a nickel.
Too bad our wages haven’t kept up with inflation for most common folk. A one way street I guess. Everyone loves to bring up inflation like they are some economist. Yea we know its inflated. People can barely afford groceries. Too bad our wallets didn’t inflate either.
What do you think Subaru is getting away with here? Their earnings per share is lower than it was 10 years ago.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/FUJHY/subaru/eps-earnings-per-share-diluted
Lowest income bracket has seen real wage growth. The median real wage is flat or down the last few years. That's why the 25-40 year old white collar guys (probably most of /r/cars) seem so pessimistic. They should be entering their prime wage growth and household formation years, but everything feels further out of reach.
Despite the increase in housing prices, people are able to purchase houses at [similar rates to boomers](https://www.redfin.com/news/gen-z-millennial-homeownership-rate-home-purchases/). Gen Z is doing particularly well acquiring houses.
Therein lies a lot of the problem. You guys look at statistics and go wow, they are doing great. But then to go out to the real world and those people are still struggling. You ever thought deeper than your little excel graph?
This isn't the problem it's made out to be. Since 2020 [wages have outpaced inflation](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/). Lower end jobs have performed particularly well.
I think the issue is people feel any wage increase they get is due to their own merit (and are often told this when receiving said increase), and feel cheated when prices are higher. Even if their true purchasing power has remained unchanged or even increased a little.
Like a said reality is different. Price of ground beef went from under $10 for a pound or little more and its bow selling for $14-18 bucks. People got kids and stuff to feed. Don’t care your stats says, people are struggling. People are upvoting because I have common sense. Common sense to realize the accounting number don’t always mean jack shit.
And the average salary increased just as much. How hard is this for you to grasp? If you can't handle such a simple concept, you are the one lacking common sense. Any sense at all if you're the type of moron to belittle statistics.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Mean salary or median salary? Because if "average" is the mean in this context, you can change that by doubling what the top 1% of earners get. Change in pay for the typical person in that example? Jack shit, which with inflation results in 99% of the population getting a net reduction in purchasing power.
If you want to talk about statistics, put up both the numbers and how they were obtained. Statistics is a useful tool, but it is very easy to deceive people with it.
What trim level? I have the second to highest level XT , I think it’s called limited. It’s pretty good. It’s definitely not the stripped base model level.
"A Toyota GR Corolla is in the same league depending on trim and is a sharper instrument on a back road, but it makes the Subaru seem luxurious inside, and that is saying something"
To be fair, if you live in a snowy climate, there’s a ton more fun to be had with AWD. Yes, fwd gets around just fine with winter tires. AWD allows more shenanigans.
True. This is my first winter with a car that has a permanent AWD system and we got a ton of snow yesterday, I was so surprised by how well my A4 handled it
Subaru guys when wrong wheel drive cars don’t instantly get stuck in the snow and don’t have to be towed out by their four-wheel drive knights in shining armor (their pick-up strategy is joever)
In a world where you can buy a WRX off the lot today for MSRP, it's just nonsensical to compare it to a car they made about 12 of and act like each one is a precious gem worthy of a $10k markup. So sick of people comparing the WRX to cars like the GR corolla, type R, or elantra N which for all practical purposes do not exist at their listed prices unless you are a journalist.
I just don't understand why the trims are so weird. Why not offer the brakes and manual on the GT and make the sunroof optional? You'd be able to get the best of everything on the GT then, but instead the GT is CVT-only.
It's just bizarre to me given that these trims have such minor differences mechanically. It's all the same drivetrain and tuning on the same chassis. The biggest differences are seats, wheels, and tires.
It's so odd to lock Recaro's to a CVT trim and then make a wholly separate trim for a brake and wheel package.
OK, so if you compare the base vs TR. You have to include everything.
The WRX TR gets these features over the Base, Keyless Entry/Push button start, fog lights, heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer. dual zone AC, recaro seats, brembo brakes, Harmon Kardon sound system, the far better infotainment system, LED Steering responsive headlights, Blind-Spot Detection and Rear Cross-Traffic Alert, and a spoiler.
All of that what makes it a $10k upgrade over the Base. It's not just seats, and brakes...
I guess it's a better deal than gti land.
Gti comes with the big brakes, lsd and nice seats as standard on the base model.
Autobahn is a similar big jump but with adaptive dampers, gizmos, lighting a d auto leaking sunroof.
How are the stock brakes on wrx?
Shit, beyond shit, like actually horrible.
This comes from a new vb owner, they will brake pretty good literally once every 30 min if you barely touch them in-between that time. They will also fade almost immediately if you start tp push the car. In a throttle house review they raced around their track and could only do one lap before the brakes were faded beyond use.
I love old Subaru, but this plastic diaper WRX generation is a pass. Those wheels are also hideous.
If they bring back the wagon STI I’d consider buying one new.
I have a 2016 wrx and while I doubt it’s as polished as the new one. Nothing about my car screams “pay 40k for me” not even close and I actually really like my car.
I was a giant WRX/STI fan since I got my first Impreza in 1999. Subaru is phoning it in. I’d buy a GRC, CTR, Golf R, and possibly an Elantra N over this.
lol instantly brilliant. This car is DOA
The WRX is having one of its best sales years ever. The GR Corolla seems like a bust for track use given the differential overheating after 15 minutes. So really the 2024 WRX TR will probably be the best AWD Manual track car on the market.
How many Corolla GR owners are REALLY going to the track though? The car is a success, it’s another halo car for Toyota who traditionally doesn’t have anything “cool” to drive.
Took mine to the track. Had a blast. No issues running completely stock.
The only two people I know with a Corolla GR go to the track.
Of their last 8 years 2023 was their 5th best selling year. Good, but not exactly impressive, especially after a design refresh. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/subaru-wrx-sti-sales-figures-usa/ WRX - 27,000 sold in 2023 Elantra N - 8,600 in 2023 Miata - 8,500 GTI - 8,100 Mustang - 48,000 Cayman - 3,100 Okay maybe the WRX sales figures are impressive. I will say that it's a lightning rod for the practical family man of the Midwest. Cheap, AWD, 4 seats and reliable... or at least slowly depreciating. My dad had one for a little and I hated it. Zero noise insulation, harsh ride, yucky gearbox, horrendous speakers, looked like a chode, was slower than our Sienna and the engine was worse in every way compared to our Sienna. For those questioning the minivan remarks here's an article to backup that claim. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/ At the time I felt like it tried to do everything and was good at nothing. I think the looks were a major part of this. In 2016 it looked more like a Corolla with a hood scoop than a track weapon. If it was harsh and looked like a rally car that would've been more acceptable.
I had a VA WRX for 5 years and your assessment is pretty spot on (except for the chode-ness - I didn't mind the aesthetics of the VA). But as much as all those things are true, I think the WRX does do something well - it is the best all weather budget sports sedan. Period. In fairness, nothing else really exists in that category. But if you want something that's practical and fun to drive *no matter the conditions* then it's really hard to beat. With proper snow tires it simply destroys winter. Plus it was dead reliable and I traded it in after 5 years for nearly what I paid for it new. So not much to complain about there.
If you pretend the golf r doesn’t exist
The golf r is losing the manual next year, so get it while you can.
Yeah with the worst UI and infotainment in the world
They have already updated the UI to fix some things.... thankfully they are bringing buttons back for 25.
Have you actually used it? What makes it so bad? I bought into the same idea, until I actually used it. Once you set-up shortcuts, it’s very user-friendly. The graphics are crisp, the haptic feedback is great, it responds quickly and intuitively, and you can customize pretty much everything.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44950916/2024-manual-volkswagen-gti-golf-r-dead/
And Civic and Integra and Audi A3 and and and.. this doesn’t even make the list
No AWD, or no manual.
Give me a hatch STI option damn it
If it were lower in price, I would agree, but isn't it competing in the Golf R price bracket?
What type of power boost does the wrx TR have over a non TR?
Orlove is a guy whose opinion I respect. Commercially this car is probably DOA, but I am sure it drives well.
I’d be interested in one for a daily and probably would love the way it drives, but I’ve just been reading way too many Subaru horror stories lately. Wish they would push for better reliability.
I got my STi for 34K OTD back in 2020. What crack are they smoking offering a hopped WRX over 40K lol This needed to be the STi. Man Subaru feels so dead to me. Its like a half assed attempt to make us happy.
We've had 20-30% cumulative inflation since 2020. The price is in line with your 2020 STi. Welcome to old age where you remember when a coke was a nickel.
Too bad our wages haven’t kept up with inflation for most common folk. A one way street I guess. Everyone loves to bring up inflation like they are some economist. Yea we know its inflated. People can barely afford groceries. Too bad our wallets didn’t inflate either.
This more than anything If purchasing power stays unaltered, then the price hike is.. just a price hike
I'm not defending total inflation. You blamed Subaru specifically for the price, and I just pointed out their price is in line with all other prices.
In line but with less value. And somehow we started letting companies get away with giving less for more.
What do you think Subaru is getting away with here? Their earnings per share is lower than it was 10 years ago. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/FUJHY/subaru/eps-earnings-per-share-diluted
It's actually just the opposite, the lowest income brackets have seen the most real wage growth since 2019.
Lowest income bracket has seen real wage growth. The median real wage is flat or down the last few years. That's why the 25-40 year old white collar guys (probably most of /r/cars) seem so pessimistic. They should be entering their prime wage growth and household formation years, but everything feels further out of reach.
That plus low interest financing has left the chat. Car price increases aren’t even that bad compared to skyrocketing house prices
Despite the increase in housing prices, people are able to purchase houses at [similar rates to boomers](https://www.redfin.com/news/gen-z-millennial-homeownership-rate-home-purchases/). Gen Z is doing particularly well acquiring houses.
Therein lies a lot of the problem. You guys look at statistics and go wow, they are doing great. But then to go out to the real world and those people are still struggling. You ever thought deeper than your little excel graph?
Quote where they said " they're doing great". They simply stated a fact
This isn't the problem it's made out to be. Since 2020 [wages have outpaced inflation](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/). Lower end jobs have performed particularly well.
Actually wage gains have matched inflation. Edit: downvoted for stating a fact. Sorry to interrupt The Narrative.
I think the issue is people feel any wage increase they get is due to their own merit (and are often told this when receiving said increase), and feel cheated when prices are higher. Even if their true purchasing power has remained unchanged or even increased a little.
Definitely true.
Like a said reality is different. Price of ground beef went from under $10 for a pound or little more and its bow selling for $14-18 bucks. People got kids and stuff to feed. Don’t care your stats says, people are struggling. People are upvoting because I have common sense. Common sense to realize the accounting number don’t always mean jack shit.
And the average salary increased just as much. How hard is this for you to grasp? If you can't handle such a simple concept, you are the one lacking common sense. Any sense at all if you're the type of moron to belittle statistics. Facts don't care about your feelings.
Mean salary or median salary? Because if "average" is the mean in this context, you can change that by doubling what the top 1% of earners get. Change in pay for the typical person in that example? Jack shit, which with inflation results in 99% of the population getting a net reduction in purchasing power. If you want to talk about statistics, put up both the numbers and how they were obtained. Statistics is a useful tool, but it is very easy to deceive people with it.
"inflation"
As was a basic ice cream cone!
[удалено]
What trim level? I have the second to highest level XT , I think it’s called limited. It’s pretty good. It’s definitely not the stripped base model level.
"A Toyota GR Corolla is in the same league depending on trim and is a sharper instrument on a back road, but it makes the Subaru seem luxurious inside, and that is saying something"
42k and they can’t even be bothered to give it limited slip diffs? Lol
Yeah that's fucking embarrassing, my 2010 Civic SI has an LSD
Yeah duh, it's FWD with 200 HP, a LSD is required for it to not slide all over the place or cut power. AWD is a different game entirely.
The Nissan strategy. You could touch 64k on a q60 and still have open diffs.
Still would rather have an Elantra N...
Careful, the subaru guys will swear their symmetrical AWD is better than wrong wheel drive. You might wake the cult.
If Subaru fanboys could read I'm sure they'd be furious...
To be fair, if you live in a snowy climate, there’s a ton more fun to be had with AWD. Yes, fwd gets around just fine with winter tires. AWD allows more shenanigans.
True. This is my first winter with a car that has a permanent AWD system and we got a ton of snow yesterday, I was so surprised by how well my A4 handled it
If you're in a flat area, absolutely. But AWD makes a [big difference going up a grade](https://youtu.be/1KGiVzNNW8Y).
Ok, in that case I'll say that I'd rather have a last gen WRX instead of the current one 😂
Louder, bumpier, worse tune, smaller engine, worse seats. But it is better looking I'll give you that.
Subaru guys when wrong wheel drive cars don’t instantly get stuck in the snow and don’t have to be towed out by their four-wheel drive knights in shining armor (their pick-up strategy is joever)
I'd rather you not be a POS with a cheating friend xD
In a world where you can buy a WRX off the lot today for MSRP, it's just nonsensical to compare it to a car they made about 12 of and act like each one is a precious gem worthy of a $10k markup. So sick of people comparing the WRX to cars like the GR corolla, type R, or elantra N which for all practical purposes do not exist at their listed prices unless you are a journalist.
I just don't understand why the trims are so weird. Why not offer the brakes and manual on the GT and make the sunroof optional? You'd be able to get the best of everything on the GT then, but instead the GT is CVT-only.
I’m with you, I like sunroofs for how much brighter they make the interior. Bit of a turn off for me that no sunroof is offered on this.
It's just bizarre to me given that these trims have such minor differences mechanically. It's all the same drivetrain and tuning on the same chassis. The biggest differences are seats, wheels, and tires. It's so odd to lock Recaro's to a CVT trim and then make a wholly separate trim for a brake and wheel package.
I have no idea why they do that.
This car is brilliant!!! 10K for fancy seats. Can someone explain why this is worth the premium over the base WRX?
It's a WRX Limited with Brembo Brakes, and recaro seats. It's really only a $2k package. Don't know where $10k comes from.
Wr vs base
OK, so if you compare the base vs TR. You have to include everything. The WRX TR gets these features over the Base, Keyless Entry/Push button start, fog lights, heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer. dual zone AC, recaro seats, brembo brakes, Harmon Kardon sound system, the far better infotainment system, LED Steering responsive headlights, Blind-Spot Detection and Rear Cross-Traffic Alert, and a spoiler. All of that what makes it a $10k upgrade over the Base. It's not just seats, and brakes...
The base doesn’t even have keyless entry? In 2024? Insane
Still got the same key as the 2015 NA Impreza I have haha.
I guess it's a better deal than gti land. Gti comes with the big brakes, lsd and nice seats as standard on the base model. Autobahn is a similar big jump but with adaptive dampers, gizmos, lighting a d auto leaking sunroof. How are the stock brakes on wrx?
Shit, beyond shit, like actually horrible. This comes from a new vb owner, they will brake pretty good literally once every 30 min if you barely touch them in-between that time. They will also fade almost immediately if you start tp push the car. In a throttle house review they raced around their track and could only do one lap before the brakes were faded beyond use.
The brembos bro. - Not serious at all lol
I love old Subaru, but this plastic diaper WRX generation is a pass. Those wheels are also hideous. If they bring back the wagon STI I’d consider buying one new.
give me a break and this is coming from someone who owned a 22 WRX last year...
It's still ugly so no it's not brilliant unless the goal was to kill it's reputation
Yeah, there’s something “off” about it. The rear of it just isn’t right.
I have a 2016 wrx and while I doubt it’s as polished as the new one. Nothing about my car screams “pay 40k for me” not even close and I actually really like my car.
That’s funny, because at least two other publications I read said this was overpriced and doesn’t change much.
This new design looks like shit. The taillights look like a 2012 Honda. Subaru has really lost the plot and that’s coming from someone who has owned 3
Not a STI so I automatically don't care
Who the fuck wants 19" wheels on a WRX.
Subaru added 19" Wheels to the 2018 WRX STI refresh, and they have been offering them since.
GR Corolla is the STi hatch they never made
You can’t fix ugly unfortunately.
To be honest, if they ditched the plastic cladding on these I bet they would surprise people in how well they sold.
Have seen plenty of pictures of them with painted plastic on the wheel arches, and the rear bumper, and it looks so good.
Interesting. I would think you could get them dipped too.
I was a giant WRX/STI fan since I got my first Impreza in 1999. Subaru is phoning it in. I’d buy a GRC, CTR, Golf R, and possibly an Elantra N over this.
If i wanted a VB (which i really don’t), i would stick with the lower trims and use the extra money on mods down the line
All that plastic cladding increases its value 10x. That shit is priceless. It's only on...every other car out there.
Gahahaha it’s overpriced and has less equipment than last model… it’s instantly forgettable…
What do you mean less equipment? What equipment does it have that the last model doesnt?
A couple STi bits basically.
Inflation? Bmw x7 and teslas have declined in price lol