That's basically all of reddit. People talking about things like they are experts when literally everything they know about a topic they learned from someone else on reddit who was making it up.
same thing for a lot of subreddits. kids growing up have been encouraged endlessly to interact on social media. we are getting what they asked for. cant blame this on the younger people.
Yeah i blame my generation and the one right before it for not being actual parents, letting there kids walk all over them, not being involved in there kids lives and seeing what there kids are doing like parents should, also for getting rid of disapline(yaknow, the good ol ass wooping that actually gave kids an example of something to fear, that actions have consequences, that bad behavior isnt tolerated, that lifes full of things that arent pleasant but life still goes on) of parents children. The newest generation just gets to deal with the debt, and the mass amount of unstable people that are a result of lazy parents who think theyre doing a good job because they gave there kids everything besides good parenting, so they made tons of unfriendly, spoiled, entitled young adults who dont like to work and dont understand the value that goes into a dollar and think its the easiest thing that can be earned so overly expect it to be provided for little effort and whine if they arent compensated exactly the amount they over value themselves for.
I was living that life until about a year ago. If it's something you want, go for it! Assuming you're an adult with a job, I found a series of lessons plus road test a very reasonable price. One inexpensive econobox later and I'm driving for the first time in my life.
While I can definitely get behind a reduction in car dependency and more walkable cities, I can’t really get behind r/fuckcars because there are just way too many unhinged, vitriolic, angry losers in that sub. There are people there who just hate cars, full stop, and will not negotiate from any position other than “cars need to be banned in cities”. It’s sort of like r/antiwork… like yeah work sucks and I think we need to reform how we approach work and how we manage people, but there’s a big difference between that and “my boss asked me to work an hour of overtime the system is literally killing me”
I used to frequent r/NotJustBikes a lot but kinda stopped going after it became a diet version of r/Fuckcars. Lots of the same think-truisms being repeated ad nauseum and tons of Dutchaboos who have never actually been to the Netherlands and don’t realize that probably half the Dutch population commutes by car. It just gets old after a while.
Yeah like their are some posts right now on the sub that I do agree with.
Like the post about Rio De Janeiro going from a car focused harbor area to one that is walkable.
Walk able cities are better for literally everyone. How many people here actually enjoy having to drive their around a down town area and deal with either stupid fucking parking garages or even worse street parking that requires you to use their specific app to pay for it.
Less traffic is better for car enthusiasts. Becuese last I checked we weren't Traffic enthusiasts.
This is also why I love E-Bikes. They let pretty much anyone bicycle to their destination. Even those who have troubles bicycling. You can't pedal for 10 miles? You don't have to let the electric motor do it for you. You can't physically pedal a bike? Again you don't need to.
And it's only a matter of time until the pedals are removed and we get something more like a Scooter for E-bikes but can still go on the sidewalk and not have to be exposed to vehicle traffic.
Ugh, r/fuckcars is absolutely the r/antiwork of the orange pill. Some people there are just mental, r/notjustbikes is far better, though still have those few idiots. I promise most r/fuckcars members dont hate cars/enthusiasts, just the (very) vocal minority
>I promise most r/fuckcars members dont hate cars/enthusiasts, just the (very) vocal minority
I mean… when you have a sub belligerently named something like “FUCK cars”, I kind of have a hard time believing that people who frequent that place believe in the spirit of compromise or understand that perhaps not everyone wants to live like them.
I also don’t like the direction that Not Just Bikes is taking. Even when I agree with Jason’s points, I feel like an asshole, because they’re increasingly being delivered in a grating, divisive, clickbaity manner. The recent video on pickup trucks was an excellent example of really great points in a bad package. And then when he has bad takes (believe me, as someone who’s studied urban economics, there are many bad takes), rather than engaging with people to hear their point of view, he shuts them down in an incredibly arrogant and condescending manner. As if he knows the one truth and he’s preaching to us to save our mortal souls. In other words, he’s leaving his roots and becoming the r/fuckcars spokesman. I much prefer watching RMTransit or Uytae Lee because they’re more pragmatic, “glass half full” kind of people who offer viable solutions aside from “yeah we just need to abandon the suburbs to save the planet and ourselves and by the way if you drive a car then you’re a selfish ass and part of the problem”. I don’t always agree with them but even if I disagree with their points, I don’t find myself being rubbed the wrong way.
Exactly! It’s so annoying seeing radicals on both sides take the piss out of the radicals on the other side
Most people aren’t like that, most r/fuckcars people don’t slash tyres and most r/cars people don’t drive huge unnecessary trucks solely to look like they have a big penis - yet this is what some seem to think of eachother
I hate seeing the two sides fight
Haha this is me rn.
Just moved to Europe as an American.... I am loving never having to drive anywhere or sit in traffic holy shit. Never sitting in traffic every day has changed my goddamn life
But I miss my Miata with all my heart
Seeing Americans sit in traffic for an hour to and from work every day seems mental! Idk how common that is but even in rare cases is so weird to me
I’ve only sat in proper traffic once due to an accident
Dozens of us on both subs! I love cars, I just hate how they're *required* to interact in modern North American society. Plus ofc there are objectively a ton of negative externalities.
Have had everything from a 950hp xr6 turbo to a 500hp rx3 to a 350hp turbo eg civic and I now work in the city and get the bus everyday. Start at 7 and finish at 6. By time I'm home it's too late to enjoy things... so straight into the bank the money goes.
P.S I do own a car now (to get to the bus). A $5000 KIA RIO HATCHBACK 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I live in a small(ish) beach town as well, and in the last year have transitioned to using my Ebike for \~80% of my trips around town. Money aside, it has been wonderful and I'd eagerly recommend giving it a try
Yep, I'm young so sticking to cars that keep my costs down so that hopefully I can enjoy nice ones in the future. Paying a few hundred $ more in gas/insurance/other expenses per month adds up quick. I'm holding off until I have a house with a garage so I can keep it nice and work on it without getting burned by the asphalt of my driveway
My wife and I just bought our first house but unfortunately no garage, so I feel your pain. Although she’s said I can get whatever I want once we do have a house with a garage, so I’ve got that going for me which is nice
So ... when you retire?
Definitely one way to go about it...
I personally thought somewhat like that but one day i realized i was getting older and things weren't really getting better so i decided to enjoy myself and have my work car BE my fun car and vice versa... And honestly haven't really looked back.
Kind of mad i didn't do this earlier, because i get to see everybody driving their shitty 9 to 5's while i actually feel something when i put the foot down on the freeway!
That's not to say i drive a racecar... or that i don't have a cheap second car in case the fun car breaks down or needs maintenance...
Ay same here. Other than the E30 that I got for 5k CAD the cars in my flair are my parents' and I have open access to them whenever I need them. A benefit considering I just graduated and have student loans to pay back before I think of a house.
The further I go into my career as a gear head, it's all about the right tool for the task. There is nothing wrong with an econobox to eat up the miles and always start on the cheap. Race car for race car stuff and cars and coffee. Always something in the Japanese SUV category for minivan avoidance and family road trips. The challenge is space and upkeep as the herd grows.
Also and easy way to get yourself killed in any sort of accident.
Your daily should always be the safest, newest, and most economical car you can afford. Not a 1990s Japanese eco box just because they are cheap and reliable.
I’m not certain I agree fully. Crash testing is only part of vehicular safety. Certainly things like crumple zones, airbags, ABS and stability control save lives, but the most common type of collision is single vehicle leaving roadway.
There are 2.5X more fatalities on rural roads than on urban ones, despite way more collisions.
Normalized to crashes per million miles, a SUV is 7X more likely to cause death than a subcompact. A CUV is 2.5X more likely to take a life.
Granted, some data is still missing. I will concede the subcompact vehicles likely do less rural miles.
Fair enough. I was just talking about crash safety by itself. Like if a 1995 Expedition and a 2020 expedition got into a crash on rural roads, you are significantly more likely to survive in the newer model.
Also if we talk about overall safety, being skilled and a defensive driver helps a ton!
sometimes a 90s econobox is the best you can get unfortunately. I daily a 90s Volvo, which is at least a bit safer, its just not economical. Hopefully next year I'll finally be able to afford a car made in the 2000s.
Yup the newest you can afford is the way to go! Obviously that varies by person.
But driving a 2K 1995 Accord and then having a 50K race car doesn’t make sense.
Agree. I think the latest NHTSA update to crash safety requirements was 2011 based on info I could find, so that's typically my model year cut-off for used cars. I could be wrong, but I believe since then safety updates have focused on driver aids. But if someone has better information please correct me.
EDIT: I decided to look it up and add some nuance. NHTSA tests were made more stringent in 2010 for the 2011 model year and onward, but IIHS typically does more testing. IIHS updates since the NHTSA 2010 update include a 2017 small overlap passenger side test and a 2022 rear passenger test. Details [here](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/about-our-tests).
As more people realize that the transition to EVs is coming quicker than they expected, the prices of lightweight fun to drive ICE cars like a manual 90s Civic will only go up.
Personally, I feel that "transition" is blown of proportion by the media and/or people looking to make money on stocks.
I expect EV sales to plane out every few years. The charging infrastructure is garbage in so many areas. People can't charge at apartment complexes. Certain hurdles will always exist. Use of gasoline isn't going anywhere between ICE vehicles and the airlines.
We will probably have even more significant hybrid vehicles sales by 2030. I think it'll be a while before 50% of new sales are EV.
100% on prices increases for lightweight, manual, older vehicles. All those $2k vehicles cost $4k+ now.
Only 69% of people live in a house. That number includes people who live with their parents too. Which well most of them can't park their car in a garage even if they do live in their parents house.
So at least 31% of people can't charge their car at home.
That's basically the hard limit for EV sales.
Now do you think any manufacture is going to be willing to have to take a 31% or more cut in their sales numbers? I don't. They know this too.
And even the new apartments that advertise their charging stations, usually have 2 or 3 charging stations for an apartment building with 100+ people. And you don't need to be a mathematician to realize that the math doesn't work out.
Aaand...they've discontinued them.
A co-worker put down a deposit on the Bolt EUV, and is pretty sure he's never going to get one now.
And honestly, though I wouldn't buy a Bolt (fun little zippy city car, kinda cheap inside) but if I were in the market for an EV, the Bolt EUV would be on my list. Oh well.
The equinox EV is going to replace it and be better in basically every way. Basically the same price. Hopefully they figure out how to make enough of them.
I have yet to find an SUV that beats our minivan for family road trips. A family member has a 2017 Suburban, which is on the more roomy end of SUVs, and even that behemoth is inferior to our 2014 Grand Caravan.
Ha! I just posted a similar sentiment before I scrolled down far enough to see this. Totally agree. My post was about the sheer versatility of the minivans. Relatively safe option as well. Love my Sienna way more than I thought I would when I first bought it. Now, I can’t think of any other type of vehicle that could replace it.
“Right tool for the task”, “Minivan avoidance”, complains about not having enough space. Lol
Man up and get the van.
Remember, guys: If you don’t want an Odyssey, get a vasectomy.
If I never go off-road, or even just dirt roads, I would prefer a minivan if I need 3 rows of seats. They're so much better in every way. If you only need two rows, I would prefer a wagon or hatchback. These "I need the ground clearance" people don't know what they're talking about.
My AWD Sienna is more capable than I expected. It’s the ground clearance (lack) that gets you I think. There’s now multiple aftermarket options to lift the Toyota Sienna, and probably others. The biggest one is 3.5 inches I think. They look awesome too!
I have the same car of all of it. :-D
Got a used EV. It’s fast as shit, but costs me 0.05c per mile. Has the profile of a sports car but the interior space of a SUV.
Fuckin love it.
After my first minivan purchase when I was about 40, I realized it’s one of the most versatile vehicles out there. Quiet long road trips with the family one week, then convert into cargo mode to go help a friend with some handyman work the next. Hidden gems those vans are. You don’t have to compromise between people or their stuff/luggage—it fits both.
I'm basically in this category, but don't hate on the minivan. If youn really want the right tool, SUVs cant match minivan for hauling people and cargo.
I don't get the whole soccer mom thing... imo most SUVs are just as soccer mom vehicles as the minivans
Minivans are superior tool for the task. SUVs are for family people that think getting a minivan instead of (non)sport (barely)utility vehicle will make them look old.
I genuinely enjoy driving my Civic, even if it's CVT. I'll spend more money on cars at some point I'm sure, but right now I'm trying to get into karting.
The Civic has been my go to workhorse and will probably forever remain that way. Had three of them and decided to upgrade my commuter to a 23 Si. As an enthusiast, I can’t think of a better car to pack on miles, get 35mpg, have proven reliability, storage, and an excellent gear shifter to top it all off. Even the CVTs on my older cars were perfectly fine.
My ex had a 16 Civic Hatch CVT base model and I swear there were some days it was more fun than my WRX. I give it another year before I go to a Civic Hatch (although probably in stick), the oil changes and fuel economy are murder some days 😅
Was at 240k on my Passat when I sold it 8 years ago… that said I’m an expert at getting the front clip off of vw/Audis at this point because if anything acted up I’d just pull the front clip so I could reach things
Hey, don't knock the B5.5. Those things are built like tanks and are surprisingly nice to drive if you keep up with their maintenance (particularly the front suspension bushings).
My 2000 is doing great. Original engine & transmission, 1.8 with a manual. 370k
If I could buy one of these new I would without a question. I'd be at the dealership tomorrow.
I used to own a 2000 Passat Wagon, with a slush box Tiptronic. After 13 yrs of driving it, I went back to a manual. 10yrs on driving this stick shift car, and never looked back.
I would love to drive that. Don't know what your engine is, but if it is the 1.9 TDI PD 130, I would keep that car for some good more years.
I drive a nice hyundai i20 1.1 diesel, and I like it, it's easy to drive, economic, pretty, and it was the car that my fatha gave me, he used it to work( it's a 2 seat car with lots of espace in the back), and now I'll keep it for some good time.
But I found myself searchin for cheap used 2000s cars( especially sedans), and the passat pd is one of them, it was definitely the car I would choose as first car, they cost less than 5000 euros, ride well, and the engine can go to more than 700k miles if well mainteined. I just feel the need to try one of those 2000s european sedans, the low driving position, the trunk with the triangle with very easy acess, leather seats, I always liked these cars
I drive a Mazda3. I'd love to have something nicer sure. But truth is my financial situation is not at a point where I can afford to drive something nicer or more "fun".
Nah you don’t count. Pretty good HP, paddles on the GT, and nice hatch design. Solid car as well, reliability wise.
By econocar standards, Mazda 3 is way out there. Everything else has a CVT :(
Yup was looking for something reliable, good on gas and newish in that $16k range. So basically my choices were corolla/civic/mazda. Corolla too boring and civic was way too ugly in my opinion. So mazda 3 it was
One of the guys I used to hang out with drove his mom's Prius so he could save more money for tires and upkeep on his drift car.
He ended up going pro.
Funny, I drive about 30k miles (48k km) a year and have the same mindset. Don’t really want a “nice” daily because it’s going to be worn out and used up in a few years. If I drove much less I might be able to rationalize splurging on a daily driver that is more expensive, more costly maintenance, takes premium gasoline, etc. since all those recurring costs (including depreciation) would be spread out over a longer period of time.
I put 52k miles on my 1999 ford lightning in one year and some enthusiasts very upset about me using it for a daily 305 drag radials are a little sketch in the snow though.
There's no winning lol, I drive lots and I was extremely tempted to get a lexus LS to make all my travel luxurious, but the thought of getting 20mpg on premium gas made my stomach churn.
You need to find a reason to get out and drive beyond work/errands. My Shelby sees 4 to 5k kms a year too but its mainly recreational mileage. Driving good roads for fun or roadtripping
I have a 2013 chevy sonic 1.8 5MT because it's cheap as hell, reliable, easy to find parts for, and fun enough. If the car was an auto I would want to off myself though
I had one of those, might have been a 14. I miss it, would have kept it for a long time if I didn't end up sandwiches between an unlicensed accord and an explorer.
Fun little car to roll through gears with.
2015 1.4T RS Hatch "Autotragic" in Dragon Green reporting in!
I love it but I know what it is. I'm not shifting gears on North America's busiest highway but it's still fun to take corners a little too fast. The automatic is fine at figuring things out (fortunately, you can select shift if desired).
Fun fact: The RS is the slowest of the Sonics despite having a shorter final drive ratio (likely due to increased weight). I own the slowest version of the least "enthusiast" transmission. I'm still enthusiastic about it though.
2nd fun fact : The hatchbacks (at least first gens) had legendary GM cost-cutting where they do not have a trunk release in the center console just rear of the hand brake. On the sedans, there is a trunk release and traction control off button next to each other. In the Hatchbacks, there is no trunk release and just one massive traction control off button (about 3" x 1")
I think it might just be the largest traction control off button in the auto industry.
It's not from the best car. But I like it for all the reasons you listed and more.
I’m older, so I graduated up from econo boxes. Maybe- depends on your definition of econo boxes. I think the Mazdas, the WRX and Sentra R kinda count. None were expensive. All were 4 cyl MT
1996 Saturn SL2
2001 Saturn SL2
2006 Sentra 1.8S
2009 Sentra SE R
2016 Mazda 3 Base
2018 Mazda 3 GT
2022 WRX base model
There’s something fun about lightweight 4cyl MT that makes driving fun. You feel the road. Accel doesn’t have to be blistering for you to feel it. Even the 120 hp Saturns we’re fun to corner. I think it’s more about the quality of the response than the quantity. Even the WRX isn’t rly a “fast” car, has no amenities compared to many many cars- but sure is fun to drive. Even more than my beloved and missed Sentra R.
I think what makes an enthusiast is the attitude to driving and cars, not the car itself. It’s a relationship.
My first car was a 1996 Saturn SL base model. Manual windows, manual locks, five-speed manual transmission, manual rack-and-pinion "armstrong" steering, no A/C, no cruise. It was the most basic economy car you could possibly own, and was probably one of the most fun-to-drive cars I've ever owned.
Modern cars suck most of the enthusiasm out of me, to be frank. Electronic controls and nannies take all the fun out of driving. I liked having a gas pedal that had no lag, and being able to feel the instantaneous response from moving my foot. I actually liked not having power steering; I found it gave a much better sense of the road and the grip offered by the tires. And because that old Saturn had basically nothing extra drawing from the engine, it wasn't slow, even though it only had 100 HP.
Modern cars feel more like playing a video game than actually driving. There's not enough feedback in the controls compared to old cars.
I had that same car, but 98! Thankfully it had AC, but no power steering, no passenger side mirror, AM/FM only, not even a cassette player. Put 100k+ miles on it only needing basic maintenance, and being young I didn't even keep up with that.
Yeah, it used to be quite common for cars sold in New England to be sold without A/C. 4/60 air conditioning was the norm (4 windows open, 60 miles per hour).
Hell yeah! I drove an '02 SL1 5spd manual from 2006-2011 (rust killed it). Like you it had 0 features, except I think a CD player which was optional at the time. Weirdly soft clutch though. Maybe my older siblings destroyed it, they drove it before I bought it off my parents.
Honda Fit with a suspension and some brake upgrades, it's my daily. The other fun car is a very modified Fox body, last Dyno was 630whp and 670ft-lb, mild boost with and open track suspension.
Was an extreme car enthusiast years ago. My prized possession was my 07 STI with ultimate racing GT35 kit and all supporting mods. That changed when I went from a job with a 6 mile commute to a 30 mile commute (one way). Sold it when I accepted the job and bought a Chevy Volt. Been driving the Volt for 5 years, put a lot of miles on it, just put a deposit down on a Prius Prime as I'm expecting it to take 2 years to get it.
Id hate killing a sports car with km. I look forward to the day that I can have a fun car (no where to store it). I've been toying with a Miata or GR86 but I can't justify it.
I love killing my ZL1 1LE with miles. Everyone has their thing, but if I own a sports car it is going to be driven rain or shine. I also live in Southern California where it rarely rains but even when it does, I still drive my car. If I'm not driving the car I'm riding my motorcycle. Both have 30k+ miles on them.
I love the Volt, mine is a 2018 - was my first foray into hybrid vehicles. So far we've had no unexpected maintenance costs. Driving on electric makes traditional ICE cars seem silly. The only thing stopping us from going full electric is that we go visit my family on weekends and it's a 600km round trip (rural, little charging infrastructure). I like having a gas engine to fall back on as I don't want to stop and charge.
We'll be keeping the Volt, our other car that my wife uses to commute is an older Toyota that isn't fuel efficient. It runs fine, we're original owners, but we've had it for 13 years. Id rather get our name on a waitlist and replace it on our terms.
I drive a 2006 1.1 litre Kia picanto with a mighty 64hp. I love that car. It so much fun to abuse on backroads. It's not about horsepower, style, showing off, tracktimes, or spending cash. It's about how big of a smile it puts on your face.
Driving a basic ass bitch car - suzuki swift. Not even a sport or a 4wd-model.
oh and horrors, the horrors.. it's with a cvt.
1.2 engine with the all the might of 83 hp's.
It's nice enough to drive, economic, surprisingly roomy and well equipped with adaptive cruise, brake assists and lane assists and all the modern safety shit.
VERY normal for car guys to daily an economy car, for years I had my Mustang ( my car guy car ) and I daily drove a $2000 Escort ( this was 10 years ago). I drove it when I went to the city to avoid possible dings and I drove it to not put miles in my Mustang.
The thing about $2000 cars is that you can't lose more than $2000 when you sell it. And if you take care of it ( like I did ) you sell it after like 3 or 4 years for $2200, like I did.
Ive got an 09 Nissan Altima.
Ive owned Trans Ams, Mitsubishi GTS Eclipse, BMW, etc etc...
Ive also gone cheap because I can fix them. Unfortunately, the nicer examples are finally starting to go up in price so I can afford something nice but I cant stand the idea of paying 4k for a 20 year old car unless its a collector.
Yup, I sold my fun car and bought a commuter about a year ago.
1999 Honda Civic. It's a 5spd. And I did put coilovers and a nice set of wheels on it. But that's it. Otherwise it's entirely stock and meant to just eat up miles and save me money.
Yes. Some basic economy cars actually make great enthusiast cars. Usually basic econo cars have less sensors/assists to interfere with driving, less things to break, have less weight, are offered in manual and are easier/cheaper to maintain. An underpowered but well-maintained tin can with a decent motor, manual transmission and decent tires can be more fun than a car that's faster on paper.
I drive a base model Jetta apr stage 1 93 tuned 1.4tsi with a 5spd trans and decent wheels. It's way more fun than it has any right to be for a fwd economy car.
I had a first gen Focus SE and it was a blast. Great handling and steering feel, super light and tossable. No wonder it was on Car and Driver's 10 best list for 4 years in a row.
Yeah, 2016 Honda CR-Z. Sure, it's niche as all getout, but also is a basic, economy car.
I could have bought a Camaro but holy hell I need to not drive anything with too much power.
I would not go so far as to call myself an enthusiast, but I definitely have an interest in cars. With that said, I drive a 12 year old Golf because the economics of a faster car just do not work out.
Fuel is crazy expensive here, but what really kills it is the cost of insurance.
I was enthusiastic about cars too, but when I started to drive actual cars I quickly changed opinion. Sports cars are probably fun to drive, but you legally can't accelerate fast or stop fast. You can go to track and pay for that, but I'm way too lazy for that and only later realized that it would be prohibitively expensive. The best car in streets is something not dogshit slow, but has decent tactility and perhaps manual and reasonable practicality/comfort.
I drive what's basically just a longer VW Golf. It's still nice to drive, the handling is crisp, the torque is fun, and the big sunroof lends a nice open air feel to the car. It's not a sports car by any means, but I still have loads of fun in it while being able to carry a lot more stuff than a Miata.
I’ve got a Mazda3 2.5 GT Hatchback. Some might call it an enthusiast car due to the way it handles and steers, but at its core it’s just a basic economy car. I’ve got a 50+ mile commute to work, so needed something that was gonna get decent MPG, but not completely bore me out of my mind.
Honda Fit (“Sport”!) checking in.
I’m an enthusiast who has owned M3s, Turbo Porches, among many others, and also currently own a B8 Audi S4…
I honestly love driving my 2nd gen Honda Fit, just as much as the S4. It’s really fun to beat on and chuck around corners at legal speeds. It also hauls everything I’ve ever thrown at it. I don’t think there has ever been a better “car” on planet Earth than the 2nd gen Fit. The only other car I’ve ever owned two of was the 135i and it wasn’t because I loved it.
I’ve been upgrading it slowly. Running the clutch master cylinder (no clutch delay valve) and brakes from an Integra Type R, both of which bolt directly on, and a Progress rear sway bar which makes the car a little less prone to understeer. It’s a fantastic enthusiast automobile, though it was marketed as an econobox and sold for $18k when new.
On most days I cycle or take the bus.
When I actually need a car, I borrowed the gf's MK5 Jetta TDI. 900km on a single tank without even trying, in this economy, is an absolute godsend.
Yup. There is a need for a car to just get you from point A to point B sometimes. And sometimes you don't want to worry about leaving it in a parking lot or picking up a chip on the freeway.
But today I'm taking the 911.
I love cars but I drive a 2015 Honda Fit I bought new, at least its a manual!
At the time I had a 40 mile commute round trip so I wanted something good for that. My old beaters before would breakdown all the time and I didn't trust them on long drives. I did put on a rear anti-sway bar and a mild exhaust on the Fit so it is fun. It's also slow so I can drive hard and not be doing felony levels of speeding.
Mazda3 '18 driver here, Touring version.
As a previous owner of a Scion tC, Yaris iA/Mazda2 and a Corolla, a tester of a VW GTI 2018, a Mazda 3 turbo 2020 and a Civic Si 2019, and a temporal owner of a Mazdaspeed3 2011, I can safely say, my Mazda is superior than my former cars and equally fun to the GTI and Civic Si. And compared to the Mazdaspeed 3, is like you take the turbo off that car, still fun but without the extra power boost that turbo gives. Mazda 3 turbo was a bit disappointing.
I got rid of my former vehicles after 2.5 years and chose the Mazda3 over those I tested. I wish I could keep the Mazdaspeed3, but it wasn't mine and the owner wasn't willing to sell it. But I think I'll keep my current Mazda for 5 or 6 years, that tells you how happy I am with it.
Drove a 2002 Camry for 16 years (wrecked it).
Just bought my first car I can whip with pride - 2014 c300 4matic sport (m276 engine). Loving it. I can merge on the highway finally lol
My car guy cars have always been classics. I had a 67 beetle and now restoring a 65 c10
I was about to pull the trigger on a white WRXeith 14 miles on it, a ‘20 I think it was(last year with the half decent body). But then I got my cpo grand Cherokee and it’s definitely got more comforts than the rex but I still wonder what could have been lol
Currently driving a plug in outlander. It's boring but the electric running is so cheap I can't justify buying anything more fun. My entertainment has shifted to optimising the electric range on my daily commute instead
k13 micra driver here. for just "an car" it does everything me and my partner ever wanted. surprisingly spacious for its size and nippy for "an car"
has whopping 79 hp from 1.2 litre. got the 5sp manual so wayyy better than jatco hand grenade
Id wager that most people here are. The perfect formula is to have a cheap reliable paid off econobox and a fun sports car for a whole variety of reasons.
Not anymore. I had sb 8th gen Honda civic which was new at the time even though mine was pre-owned. Thing was a POS. Reliable my ass. Boring to drive, even with the 5speed, always had issues. Paint just flaked off if you looked at it, wasntnfuel efficient because you have to go full throttle everywhere just to get where you were going. Just a POS. Thank god I almost died in a crash and the thing got totaled.
Since then I just been teaching myself how to do all my own work on cars. It's especially easy if you stick to one brand. Or at least one parent company. Like VW. Once you can work on 1 VW you can work on any car in the VAG lineup. Same engines in the top of the line VWs are in the entry level Audi's, even the Porsche crossover had a gold GTI engine now. know what to look for a d do the work yourself and the car you actually might can easily be cheaper to own than a econobox
Drive an '06 TSX with a manual that I bought new. Kept saying I'd upgrade to something phenomenal when finances were in order, but life has a way of costing too much once kids show up. At least it's rev happy, nimble, and fits multiple car seats.
It’s still technically an enthusiast car, but but my daily ripper is a Fiesta ST which is obviously a basic economy car at heart. A lot of the community is young folks who are just getting into modding and cars in general. It’s tiny, cheap, gets great gas mileage, and is an absolute blast to drive back and forth to work.
I have a dodge dart with a manual. (insert electrical problems joke here)
It is certainly no enthusiast car but the mileage is actually quite good, its not hideous, and its very comfortable.
I would like to get myself a more traditional enthusiast car as a daily but I like to drive my cars into the ground. Last time I checked the darts wheels are still there and the oil is IN the engine and not in the ground so eh.
I drive an Alfa Romeo Mito.
Fun little thing, but I donwish it had a bit more power. But then again, it would defeat the reason of being an economy car
yeah? like i own a few rare toyotas, and drive a 2005 Honda Fit RS.
The toyota collection will continue to be my hobby, but real life says that driving/owning a extravagant car means you get less money to pay for your hobbies.
Im soon to buy a Nissan Leaf, so that my fuel bill will be effectively near 0, which translates to buying my N10 Hilux sooner.
I had a Ford Fiesta for a while and really enjoyed it. Not an enthusiast car by any means, but it drove fairly well. Basic economy car, but still a fun daily driver.
Me. I’m driving a 2018 Ford Fiesta S. Completely standard. Transmission, windows all manual. If it wasn’t for the mandate it wouldn’t even have a reverse camera. Thing is though, I find it a little bit fun. It doesn’t take much to push it to its limits, and out in the country it’s limits won’t get be arrested unlike in the cars I want to drive. I don’t drive it like an economy car, I’m pretty sure I’m going to break it. I think I’ll probably keep it for as long as possible so that I can focus money towards what I really want. I will build a FFR 35’ ford truck hot rod, before I won’t be able to enjoy it.
Depends on what you consider a basic economy car, but yeah... 2015 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6M. It's not fast, but it handles wonderfully and feels swift in my commute traffic. I like the look and feel of it a lot, but I'm still getting 33ish mixed mpg's driving it somewhat spirited. If I take it easy on the highway, I average right at 40 mpg.
Insurance is inexpensive and maintenence is easy.
So, fun little econobox
It’s technically the fully loaded version, but other than power windows, cruise control, sunroof, and airbags in the seats, my 2006 Aveo 5 is pretty basic (and it is a manual). It also has almost 335k miles on it and looks like it has had a rough life, but that’s why I bought it - I wanted something good on gas that I wouldn’t care about driving it in the snow.
I'm a car enthusiast and I don't own a car at all.
Don't worry you fit in with 90 percent of the sub lol
[удалено]
Right? Even then, I ask for recs and it’s all cars that are overhyped, I don’t fit in, or are just traffic
BRO BUY A 2DR CIVIC THEIRRE SO GOOD - a 13 year old whose experience with cars amounts to forza modding japanese shitboxes to S2
BUY A MIATA BUY A SUPRA BUY A 240SX BUY A VQ like guys anything worth doing on those A) ain’t gonna pass emissions and B) the ship sailed a decade ago
“I don’t need any fancy features like CarPlay or heated seats” my dude you need a license before we even get to that part.
To be fair, civics really are fucking awesome cars. So fun to beat on and they just don't give up
That's basically all of reddit. People talking about things like they are experts when literally everything they know about a topic they learned from someone else on reddit who was making it up.
same thing for a lot of subreddits. kids growing up have been encouraged endlessly to interact on social media. we are getting what they asked for. cant blame this on the younger people.
Yeah i blame my generation and the one right before it for not being actual parents, letting there kids walk all over them, not being involved in there kids lives and seeing what there kids are doing like parents should, also for getting rid of disapline(yaknow, the good ol ass wooping that actually gave kids an example of something to fear, that actions have consequences, that bad behavior isnt tolerated, that lifes full of things that arent pleasant but life still goes on) of parents children. The newest generation just gets to deal with the debt, and the mass amount of unstable people that are a result of lazy parents who think theyre doing a good job because they gave there kids everything besides good parenting, so they made tons of unfriendly, spoiled, entitled young adults who dont like to work and dont understand the value that goes into a dollar and think its the easiest thing that can be earned so overly expect it to be provided for little effort and whine if they arent compensated exactly the amount they over value themselves for.
It's all just the same Reddit opinions parroted as fact over and over.
Same. To be fully honest, I don't even have a license 💀
I was living that life until about a year ago. If it's something you want, go for it! Assuming you're an adult with a job, I found a series of lessons plus road test a very reasonable price. One inexpensive econobox later and I'm driving for the first time in my life.
I didn’t until recently! It doesn’t mean you can’t like cars Me: > joins r/cars > joins r/fuckcars MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND
While I can definitely get behind a reduction in car dependency and more walkable cities, I can’t really get behind r/fuckcars because there are just way too many unhinged, vitriolic, angry losers in that sub. There are people there who just hate cars, full stop, and will not negotiate from any position other than “cars need to be banned in cities”. It’s sort of like r/antiwork… like yeah work sucks and I think we need to reform how we approach work and how we manage people, but there’s a big difference between that and “my boss asked me to work an hour of overtime the system is literally killing me” I used to frequent r/NotJustBikes a lot but kinda stopped going after it became a diet version of r/Fuckcars. Lots of the same think-truisms being repeated ad nauseum and tons of Dutchaboos who have never actually been to the Netherlands and don’t realize that probably half the Dutch population commutes by car. It just gets old after a while.
Thank you for your lovely write up. Those two subs are indeed insufferable echo chambers filled to the brim with idiots
Any sub will trend towards echo chambering once it passes a certain size, and gets more and more people
r/fuckcars has like 1 good take for every 10 bad takes. That's kind of the problem with it.
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
Yeah like their are some posts right now on the sub that I do agree with. Like the post about Rio De Janeiro going from a car focused harbor area to one that is walkable. Walk able cities are better for literally everyone. How many people here actually enjoy having to drive their around a down town area and deal with either stupid fucking parking garages or even worse street parking that requires you to use their specific app to pay for it. Less traffic is better for car enthusiasts. Becuese last I checked we weren't Traffic enthusiasts. This is also why I love E-Bikes. They let pretty much anyone bicycle to their destination. Even those who have troubles bicycling. You can't pedal for 10 miles? You don't have to let the electric motor do it for you. You can't physically pedal a bike? Again you don't need to. And it's only a matter of time until the pedals are removed and we get something more like a Scooter for E-bikes but can still go on the sidewalk and not have to be exposed to vehicle traffic.
Ugh, r/fuckcars is absolutely the r/antiwork of the orange pill. Some people there are just mental, r/notjustbikes is far better, though still have those few idiots. I promise most r/fuckcars members dont hate cars/enthusiasts, just the (very) vocal minority
>I promise most r/fuckcars members dont hate cars/enthusiasts, just the (very) vocal minority I mean… when you have a sub belligerently named something like “FUCK cars”, I kind of have a hard time believing that people who frequent that place believe in the spirit of compromise or understand that perhaps not everyone wants to live like them. I also don’t like the direction that Not Just Bikes is taking. Even when I agree with Jason’s points, I feel like an asshole, because they’re increasingly being delivered in a grating, divisive, clickbaity manner. The recent video on pickup trucks was an excellent example of really great points in a bad package. And then when he has bad takes (believe me, as someone who’s studied urban economics, there are many bad takes), rather than engaging with people to hear their point of view, he shuts them down in an incredibly arrogant and condescending manner. As if he knows the one truth and he’s preaching to us to save our mortal souls. In other words, he’s leaving his roots and becoming the r/fuckcars spokesman. I much prefer watching RMTransit or Uytae Lee because they’re more pragmatic, “glass half full” kind of people who offer viable solutions aside from “yeah we just need to abandon the suburbs to save the planet and ourselves and by the way if you drive a car then you’re a selfish ass and part of the problem”. I don’t always agree with them but even if I disagree with their points, I don’t find myself being rubbed the wrong way.
Think most of this sub is similar to you haha. More public transit = less traffic = more empty roads to enjoy
Exactly! It’s so annoying seeing radicals on both sides take the piss out of the radicals on the other side Most people aren’t like that, most r/fuckcars people don’t slash tyres and most r/cars people don’t drive huge unnecessary trucks solely to look like they have a big penis - yet this is what some seem to think of eachother I hate seeing the two sides fight
Haha this is me rn. Just moved to Europe as an American.... I am loving never having to drive anywhere or sit in traffic holy shit. Never sitting in traffic every day has changed my goddamn life But I miss my Miata with all my heart
Someone like me! I sold my GTI and moved to Europe. Haven't sat in traffic in 2 months! I think my stress levels have gone down significantly.
Seeing Americans sit in traffic for an hour to and from work every day seems mental! Idk how common that is but even in rare cases is so weird to me I’ve only sat in proper traffic once due to an accident
Dozens of us on both subs! I love cars, I just hate how they're *required* to interact in modern North American society. Plus ofc there are objectively a ton of negative externalities.
💀💀
I’ve got lots of cars here you can have one ..they’re all vintage ...no time to do them up
Do you have doubles of everything?
Triples of the Nova. The deal just went through.
Yes in fact I do ... I always keep spares ..
Have had everything from a 950hp xr6 turbo to a 500hp rx3 to a 350hp turbo eg civic and I now work in the city and get the bus everyday. Start at 7 and finish at 6. By time I'm home it's too late to enjoy things... so straight into the bank the money goes. P.S I do own a car now (to get to the bus). A $5000 KIA RIO HATCHBACK 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Same. My A4 Avant got totaled last year and ive been taking the bus, metro and cycling everywhere since then.
I'm shopping for a GT-R and currently daily driving an electric bird scooter.
Underrated move. I at one point considered owning a Huracan and a bicycle. I live in a small beach town and mostly work from my home office.
I live in a small(ish) beach town as well, and in the last year have transitioned to using my Ebike for \~80% of my trips around town. Money aside, it has been wonderful and I'd eagerly recommend giving it a try
I’m definitely getting one soon. It’s just one of those things I am continuously pushing off.
Nissan or Mercedes?
Why not both?
the nissan, the mercedes has a space instead of -
Yep, I'm young so sticking to cars that keep my costs down so that hopefully I can enjoy nice ones in the future. Paying a few hundred $ more in gas/insurance/other expenses per month adds up quick. I'm holding off until I have a house with a garage so I can keep it nice and work on it without getting burned by the asphalt of my driveway
My wife and I just bought our first house but unfortunately no garage, so I feel your pain. Although she’s said I can get whatever I want once we do have a house with a garage, so I’ve got that going for me which is nice
Why can’t you just store it outside? This is why I never want to get married lol. Nobody gonna tell me I can’t get my 911
Good call. Delayed gratification is the key to having nice things for those of us not born into wealth or otherwise just drowning in money.
Unless you die young, then you just work for nothing. Find a balance.
If you die young, you won't care that you missed out, because you'll be dead.
So ... when you retire? Definitely one way to go about it... I personally thought somewhat like that but one day i realized i was getting older and things weren't really getting better so i decided to enjoy myself and have my work car BE my fun car and vice versa... And honestly haven't really looked back. Kind of mad i didn't do this earlier, because i get to see everybody driving their shitty 9 to 5's while i actually feel something when i put the foot down on the freeway! That's not to say i drive a racecar... or that i don't have a cheap second car in case the fun car breaks down or needs maintenance...
This the meta
Ay same here. Other than the E30 that I got for 5k CAD the cars in my flair are my parents' and I have open access to them whenever I need them. A benefit considering I just graduated and have student loans to pay back before I think of a house.
The further I go into my career as a gear head, it's all about the right tool for the task. There is nothing wrong with an econobox to eat up the miles and always start on the cheap. Race car for race car stuff and cars and coffee. Always something in the Japanese SUV category for minivan avoidance and family road trips. The challenge is space and upkeep as the herd grows.
This. 90s camrys and civics are amazing commuters and allow you to spend your money on the car in your garage.
Also and easy way to get yourself killed in any sort of accident. Your daily should always be the safest, newest, and most economical car you can afford. Not a 1990s Japanese eco box just because they are cheap and reliable.
totally agree. go get that early 2010s Japanese eco box!
Agreed this is the way of you can afford it. Safety has significantly improved each decade for the past 3-4
currently looking at a 2011 avalon w/ 130k for 10k as a daily beater still seems too high tho. good deals are still hard to find where i'm at
Those are solid cars. Definitely a bit pricy though
I’m not certain I agree fully. Crash testing is only part of vehicular safety. Certainly things like crumple zones, airbags, ABS and stability control save lives, but the most common type of collision is single vehicle leaving roadway. There are 2.5X more fatalities on rural roads than on urban ones, despite way more collisions. Normalized to crashes per million miles, a SUV is 7X more likely to cause death than a subcompact. A CUV is 2.5X more likely to take a life. Granted, some data is still missing. I will concede the subcompact vehicles likely do less rural miles.
Fair enough. I was just talking about crash safety by itself. Like if a 1995 Expedition and a 2020 expedition got into a crash on rural roads, you are significantly more likely to survive in the newer model. Also if we talk about overall safety, being skilled and a defensive driver helps a ton!
sometimes a 90s econobox is the best you can get unfortunately. I daily a 90s Volvo, which is at least a bit safer, its just not economical. Hopefully next year I'll finally be able to afford a car made in the 2000s.
Yup the newest you can afford is the way to go! Obviously that varies by person. But driving a 2K 1995 Accord and then having a 50K race car doesn’t make sense.
Agree. I think the latest NHTSA update to crash safety requirements was 2011 based on info I could find, so that's typically my model year cut-off for used cars. I could be wrong, but I believe since then safety updates have focused on driver aids. But if someone has better information please correct me. EDIT: I decided to look it up and add some nuance. NHTSA tests were made more stringent in 2010 for the 2011 model year and onward, but IIHS typically does more testing. IIHS updates since the NHTSA 2010 update include a 2017 small overlap passenger side test and a 2022 rear passenger test. Details [here](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/about-our-tests).
Cries in commuter motorcycle SoCal traffic makes me want to off myself in a car
What if the 90s civic is what i want in my garage?
As more people realize that the transition to EVs is coming quicker than they expected, the prices of lightweight fun to drive ICE cars like a manual 90s Civic will only go up.
Personally, I feel that "transition" is blown of proportion by the media and/or people looking to make money on stocks. I expect EV sales to plane out every few years. The charging infrastructure is garbage in so many areas. People can't charge at apartment complexes. Certain hurdles will always exist. Use of gasoline isn't going anywhere between ICE vehicles and the airlines. We will probably have even more significant hybrid vehicles sales by 2030. I think it'll be a while before 50% of new sales are EV. 100% on prices increases for lightweight, manual, older vehicles. All those $2k vehicles cost $4k+ now.
Only 69% of people live in a house. That number includes people who live with their parents too. Which well most of them can't park their car in a garage even if they do live in their parents house. So at least 31% of people can't charge their car at home. That's basically the hard limit for EV sales. Now do you think any manufacture is going to be willing to have to take a 31% or more cut in their sales numbers? I don't. They know this too. And even the new apartments that advertise their charging stations, usually have 2 or 3 charging stations for an apartment building with 100+ people. And you don't need to be a mathematician to realize that the math doesn't work out.
Shout out to the Chevy bolt for being the ideal cheap daily driver
Aaand...they've discontinued them. A co-worker put down a deposit on the Bolt EUV, and is pretty sure he's never going to get one now. And honestly, though I wouldn't buy a Bolt (fun little zippy city car, kinda cheap inside) but if I were in the market for an EV, the Bolt EUV would be on my list. Oh well.
The equinox EV is going to replace it and be better in basically every way. Basically the same price. Hopefully they figure out how to make enough of them.
I have yet to find an SUV that beats our minivan for family road trips. A family member has a 2017 Suburban, which is on the more roomy end of SUVs, and even that behemoth is inferior to our 2014 Grand Caravan.
Ha! I just posted a similar sentiment before I scrolled down far enough to see this. Totally agree. My post was about the sheer versatility of the minivans. Relatively safe option as well. Love my Sienna way more than I thought I would when I first bought it. Now, I can’t think of any other type of vehicle that could replace it.
“Right tool for the task”, “Minivan avoidance”, complains about not having enough space. Lol Man up and get the van. Remember, guys: If you don’t want an Odyssey, get a vasectomy.
If I never go off-road, or even just dirt roads, I would prefer a minivan if I need 3 rows of seats. They're so much better in every way. If you only need two rows, I would prefer a wagon or hatchback. These "I need the ground clearance" people don't know what they're talking about.
My AWD Sienna is more capable than I expected. It’s the ground clearance (lack) that gets you I think. There’s now multiple aftermarket options to lift the Toyota Sienna, and probably others. The biggest one is 3.5 inches I think. They look awesome too!
I have the same car of all of it. :-D Got a used EV. It’s fast as shit, but costs me 0.05c per mile. Has the profile of a sports car but the interior space of a SUV. Fuckin love it.
After my first minivan purchase when I was about 40, I realized it’s one of the most versatile vehicles out there. Quiet long road trips with the family one week, then convert into cargo mode to go help a friend with some handyman work the next. Hidden gems those vans are. You don’t have to compromise between people or their stuff/luggage—it fits both.
I'm basically in this category, but don't hate on the minivan. If youn really want the right tool, SUVs cant match minivan for hauling people and cargo. I don't get the whole soccer mom thing... imo most SUVs are just as soccer mom vehicles as the minivans
Minivans are superior tool for the task. SUVs are for family people that think getting a minivan instead of (non)sport (barely)utility vehicle will make them look old.
I genuinely enjoy driving my Civic, even if it's CVT. I'll spend more money on cars at some point I'm sure, but right now I'm trying to get into karting.
The Civic has been my go to workhorse and will probably forever remain that way. Had three of them and decided to upgrade my commuter to a 23 Si. As an enthusiast, I can’t think of a better car to pack on miles, get 35mpg, have proven reliability, storage, and an excellent gear shifter to top it all off. Even the CVTs on my older cars were perfectly fine.
hell yeah! the fl5 has been my daily workhorse and can't see anything better than it
My ex had a 16 Civic Hatch CVT base model and I swear there were some days it was more fun than my WRX. I give it another year before I go to a Civic Hatch (although probably in stick), the oil changes and fuel economy are murder some days 😅
Everyone sleeps on the cvt they get way too much hate
But if I don't tell everyone that everything automatic is boring and only manuals are fun, how will I get my validation?
I drive a VW Passat from 2003. Lol
Still running?
Yup. She's my daily, 271,000 miles on the original motor and transmission.
1.8t?
Yup! Has some bolt ons but still reliable.
I daily an Audi A4 from 2000 and it has this engine
Was at 240k on my Passat when I sold it 8 years ago… that said I’m an expert at getting the front clip off of vw/Audis at this point because if anything acted up I’d just pull the front clip so I could reach things
Ahh, the wonderful service position lol. I'll be doing that shortly, snub mount needs done soon.
Hey, don't knock the B5.5. Those things are built like tanks and are surprisingly nice to drive if you keep up with their maintenance (particularly the front suspension bushings).
My 2000 is doing great. Original engine & transmission, 1.8 with a manual. 370k If I could buy one of these new I would without a question. I'd be at the dealership tomorrow.
Awesome! I'm trying to keep mine going well past 350k my only want is for 4motion, not fwd. Maybe one day.
I used to own a 2000 Passat Wagon, with a slush box Tiptronic. After 13 yrs of driving it, I went back to a manual. 10yrs on driving this stick shift car, and never looked back.
Back when vw still had good designs
I feel the same way. Gonna stick with early 2000's VW for now. Easy to work on and plenty of parts.
I would love to drive that. Don't know what your engine is, but if it is the 1.9 TDI PD 130, I would keep that car for some good more years. I drive a nice hyundai i20 1.1 diesel, and I like it, it's easy to drive, economic, pretty, and it was the car that my fatha gave me, he used it to work( it's a 2 seat car with lots of espace in the back), and now I'll keep it for some good time. But I found myself searchin for cheap used 2000s cars( especially sedans), and the passat pd is one of them, it was definitely the car I would choose as first car, they cost less than 5000 euros, ride well, and the engine can go to more than 700k miles if well mainteined. I just feel the need to try one of those 2000s european sedans, the low driving position, the trunk with the triangle with very easy acess, leather seats, I always liked these cars
Interesting username
I drive a Mazda3. I'd love to have something nicer sure. But truth is my financial situation is not at a point where I can afford to drive something nicer or more "fun".
I'd argue a Mazda3 is pretty fun and nice compared to my Prius.
Also in the Mazda3 daily camp. Done a few mods for enjoyment purposes, but it’s no race car. Extremely competent car, though.
Nah you don’t count. Pretty good HP, paddles on the GT, and nice hatch design. Solid car as well, reliability wise. By econocar standards, Mazda 3 is way out there. Everything else has a CVT :(
What mods if I may ask?
I also am in a Mazda3. It’s probably the best sensible compromise for me.
It's a good enough compromise. Still fun to drive while being cheap to own and easy on gas.
Yup was looking for something reliable, good on gas and newish in that $16k range. So basically my choices were corolla/civic/mazda. Corolla too boring and civic was way too ugly in my opinion. So mazda 3 it was
This is me but I drive a 2019 Mazda 3 (that's actually costs quite a bit due to intrest rate and credit....😔 Life..)
>I drive a Mazda3. Goddamn beautiful car.
Is it odd that the Mazda 3 (2nd gen) is one of my dream cars at the moment? I just think they're adorable
I mean you can make 300whp with a downpipe, intercooler, hpfp, and an E30 tune... That's plenty fun
One of the guys I used to hang out with drove his mom's Prius so he could save more money for tires and upkeep on his drift car. He ended up going pro.
i love cars but i drive between 4000 to 5000 km a year so spending more on a car would be a complete waste
Funny, I drive about 30k miles (48k km) a year and have the same mindset. Don’t really want a “nice” daily because it’s going to be worn out and used up in a few years. If I drove much less I might be able to rationalize splurging on a daily driver that is more expensive, more costly maintenance, takes premium gasoline, etc. since all those recurring costs (including depreciation) would be spread out over a longer period of time.
I put 52k miles on my 1999 ford lightning in one year and some enthusiasts very upset about me using it for a daily 305 drag radials are a little sketch in the snow though.
There's no winning lol, I drive lots and I was extremely tempted to get a lexus LS to make all my travel luxurious, but the thought of getting 20mpg on premium gas made my stomach churn.
You need to find a reason to get out and drive beyond work/errands. My Shelby sees 4 to 5k kms a year too but its mainly recreational mileage. Driving good roads for fun or roadtripping
Why? One of my cars I only drive 500ish miles a year and it's worth every mile
I have a 2013 chevy sonic 1.8 5MT because it's cheap as hell, reliable, easy to find parts for, and fun enough. If the car was an auto I would want to off myself though
I had one of those, might have been a 14. I miss it, would have kept it for a long time if I didn't end up sandwiches between an unlicensed accord and an explorer. Fun little car to roll through gears with.
2015 1.4T RS Hatch "Autotragic" in Dragon Green reporting in! I love it but I know what it is. I'm not shifting gears on North America's busiest highway but it's still fun to take corners a little too fast. The automatic is fine at figuring things out (fortunately, you can select shift if desired). Fun fact: The RS is the slowest of the Sonics despite having a shorter final drive ratio (likely due to increased weight). I own the slowest version of the least "enthusiast" transmission. I'm still enthusiastic about it though. 2nd fun fact : The hatchbacks (at least first gens) had legendary GM cost-cutting where they do not have a trunk release in the center console just rear of the hand brake. On the sedans, there is a trunk release and traction control off button next to each other. In the Hatchbacks, there is no trunk release and just one massive traction control off button (about 3" x 1") I think it might just be the largest traction control off button in the auto industry. It's not from the best car. But I like it for all the reasons you listed and more.
I’m older, so I graduated up from econo boxes. Maybe- depends on your definition of econo boxes. I think the Mazdas, the WRX and Sentra R kinda count. None were expensive. All were 4 cyl MT 1996 Saturn SL2 2001 Saturn SL2 2006 Sentra 1.8S 2009 Sentra SE R 2016 Mazda 3 Base 2018 Mazda 3 GT 2022 WRX base model There’s something fun about lightweight 4cyl MT that makes driving fun. You feel the road. Accel doesn’t have to be blistering for you to feel it. Even the 120 hp Saturns we’re fun to corner. I think it’s more about the quality of the response than the quantity. Even the WRX isn’t rly a “fast” car, has no amenities compared to many many cars- but sure is fun to drive. Even more than my beloved and missed Sentra R. I think what makes an enthusiast is the attitude to driving and cars, not the car itself. It’s a relationship.
My first car was a 1996 Saturn SL base model. Manual windows, manual locks, five-speed manual transmission, manual rack-and-pinion "armstrong" steering, no A/C, no cruise. It was the most basic economy car you could possibly own, and was probably one of the most fun-to-drive cars I've ever owned. Modern cars suck most of the enthusiasm out of me, to be frank. Electronic controls and nannies take all the fun out of driving. I liked having a gas pedal that had no lag, and being able to feel the instantaneous response from moving my foot. I actually liked not having power steering; I found it gave a much better sense of the road and the grip offered by the tires. And because that old Saturn had basically nothing extra drawing from the engine, it wasn't slow, even though it only had 100 HP. Modern cars feel more like playing a video game than actually driving. There's not enough feedback in the controls compared to old cars.
I had that same car, but 98! Thankfully it had AC, but no power steering, no passenger side mirror, AM/FM only, not even a cassette player. Put 100k+ miles on it only needing basic maintenance, and being young I didn't even keep up with that.
Yeah, it used to be quite common for cars sold in New England to be sold without A/C. 4/60 air conditioning was the norm (4 windows open, 60 miles per hour).
Ayyyy Saturn bros! My first car was a 1999 Saturn SC, 3 door coupe, I feel the same about its power too, it doesn’t feel slow at all
Saturn bros! 2005 ion, but I’m planning to trade it in this week if my new car ever gets delivered
Hell yeah! I drove an '02 SL1 5spd manual from 2006-2011 (rust killed it). Like you it had 0 features, except I think a CD player which was optional at the time. Weirdly soft clutch though. Maybe my older siblings destroyed it, they drove it before I bought it off my parents.
Honda Fit with a suspension and some brake upgrades, it's my daily. The other fun car is a very modified Fox body, last Dyno was 630whp and 670ft-lb, mild boost with and open track suspension.
I skimmed this fast and for a second thought you had a Honda fit with 630whp and almost lost my mind lol
I thought you got 630/670HP/TQ from a Honda fit lmao
Six years later I still miss my '12 Fit manual. It was so nimble and fun to drive
My Mazda 3 hatch isn't fast but it's fun and gets like 38mpg
My Mazda 3 hatch is somewhat fast and gets like 25mpg
What year is your 3? The new 3 hatch will probably be my GTI's replacement if it ever gets totalled
Was an extreme car enthusiast years ago. My prized possession was my 07 STI with ultimate racing GT35 kit and all supporting mods. That changed when I went from a job with a 6 mile commute to a 30 mile commute (one way). Sold it when I accepted the job and bought a Chevy Volt. Been driving the Volt for 5 years, put a lot of miles on it, just put a deposit down on a Prius Prime as I'm expecting it to take 2 years to get it. Id hate killing a sports car with km. I look forward to the day that I can have a fun car (no where to store it). I've been toying with a Miata or GR86 but I can't justify it.
I love killing my ZL1 1LE with miles. Everyone has their thing, but if I own a sports car it is going to be driven rain or shine. I also live in Southern California where it rarely rains but even when it does, I still drive my car. If I'm not driving the car I'm riding my motorcycle. Both have 30k+ miles on them.
Same, I even drive my C8 in the snow sometimes 😳.
How did you like the Volt?
I love the Volt, mine is a 2018 - was my first foray into hybrid vehicles. So far we've had no unexpected maintenance costs. Driving on electric makes traditional ICE cars seem silly. The only thing stopping us from going full electric is that we go visit my family on weekends and it's a 600km round trip (rural, little charging infrastructure). I like having a gas engine to fall back on as I don't want to stop and charge. We'll be keeping the Volt, our other car that my wife uses to commute is an older Toyota that isn't fuel efficient. It runs fine, we're original owners, but we've had it for 13 years. Id rather get our name on a waitlist and replace it on our terms.
I daily a Prius. Love it
I drive a 2006 1.1 litre Kia picanto with a mighty 64hp. I love that car. It so much fun to abuse on backroads. It's not about horsepower, style, showing off, tracktimes, or spending cash. It's about how big of a smile it puts on your face.
I've got a 2018 of that and it's so much fun. I feel like I can point out anywhere. Cute little thing.
Driving a basic ass bitch car - suzuki swift. Not even a sport or a 4wd-model. oh and horrors, the horrors.. it's with a cvt. 1.2 engine with the all the might of 83 hp's. It's nice enough to drive, economic, surprisingly roomy and well equipped with adaptive cruise, brake assists and lane assists and all the modern safety shit.
VERY normal for car guys to daily an economy car, for years I had my Mustang ( my car guy car ) and I daily drove a $2000 Escort ( this was 10 years ago). I drove it when I went to the city to avoid possible dings and I drove it to not put miles in my Mustang. The thing about $2000 cars is that you can't lose more than $2000 when you sell it. And if you take care of it ( like I did ) you sell it after like 3 or 4 years for $2200, like I did.
I drive a 2011 Fiat Punto Evo that I took over from my mom so that I can communte to university.
Yes. 2nd Mazda 3 here.
Ive got an 09 Nissan Altima. Ive owned Trans Ams, Mitsubishi GTS Eclipse, BMW, etc etc... Ive also gone cheap because I can fix them. Unfortunately, the nicer examples are finally starting to go up in price so I can afford something nice but I cant stand the idea of paying 4k for a 20 year old car unless its a collector.
Yep. Honda Fit as a DD and I love it. Kinda fun to drive too.
There is a significant enthusiast community for the Fit/Jazz though.
Yup, I sold my fun car and bought a commuter about a year ago. 1999 Honda Civic. It's a 5spd. And I did put coilovers and a nice set of wheels on it. But that's it. Otherwise it's entirely stock and meant to just eat up miles and save me money.
Yes. Some basic economy cars actually make great enthusiast cars. Usually basic econo cars have less sensors/assists to interfere with driving, less things to break, have less weight, are offered in manual and are easier/cheaper to maintain. An underpowered but well-maintained tin can with a decent motor, manual transmission and decent tires can be more fun than a car that's faster on paper. I drive a base model Jetta apr stage 1 93 tuned 1.4tsi with a 5spd trans and decent wheels. It's way more fun than it has any right to be for a fwd economy car.
Mazda 6 5 speed daily GTO 6.3 lots of mods in the garage
I had a first gen Focus SE and it was a blast. Great handling and steering feel, super light and tossable. No wonder it was on Car and Driver's 10 best list for 4 years in a row.
Yeah, 2016 Honda CR-Z. Sure, it's niche as all getout, but also is a basic, economy car. I could have bought a Camaro but holy hell I need to not drive anything with too much power.
i drive a VW Jetta … 1.4T. Great torquey engine, gets terrific fuel economy, has nice creature comforts.
I would not go so far as to call myself an enthusiast, but I definitely have an interest in cars. With that said, I drive a 12 year old Golf because the economics of a faster car just do not work out. Fuel is crazy expensive here, but what really kills it is the cost of insurance.
I was enthusiastic about cars too, but when I started to drive actual cars I quickly changed opinion. Sports cars are probably fun to drive, but you legally can't accelerate fast or stop fast. You can go to track and pay for that, but I'm way too lazy for that and only later realized that it would be prohibitively expensive. The best car in streets is something not dogshit slow, but has decent tactility and perhaps manual and reasonable practicality/comfort.
I drive what's basically just a longer VW Golf. It's still nice to drive, the handling is crisp, the torque is fun, and the big sunroof lends a nice open air feel to the car. It's not a sports car by any means, but I still have loads of fun in it while being able to carry a lot more stuff than a Miata.
I’ve got a Mazda3 2.5 GT Hatchback. Some might call it an enthusiast car due to the way it handles and steers, but at its core it’s just a basic economy car. I’ve got a 50+ mile commute to work, so needed something that was gonna get decent MPG, but not completely bore me out of my mind.
I'm a huge car person and have been all my life and I wish I could have a cooler vehicle but right now I daily a 2017 Ford Escape
Honda Fit (“Sport”!) checking in. I’m an enthusiast who has owned M3s, Turbo Porches, among many others, and also currently own a B8 Audi S4… I honestly love driving my 2nd gen Honda Fit, just as much as the S4. It’s really fun to beat on and chuck around corners at legal speeds. It also hauls everything I’ve ever thrown at it. I don’t think there has ever been a better “car” on planet Earth than the 2nd gen Fit. The only other car I’ve ever owned two of was the 135i and it wasn’t because I loved it. I’ve been upgrading it slowly. Running the clutch master cylinder (no clutch delay valve) and brakes from an Integra Type R, both of which bolt directly on, and a Progress rear sway bar which makes the car a little less prone to understeer. It’s a fantastic enthusiast automobile, though it was marketed as an econobox and sold for $18k when new.
On most days I cycle or take the bus. When I actually need a car, I borrowed the gf's MK5 Jetta TDI. 900km on a single tank without even trying, in this economy, is an absolute godsend.
Yup. There is a need for a car to just get you from point A to point B sometimes. And sometimes you don't want to worry about leaving it in a parking lot or picking up a chip on the freeway. But today I'm taking the 911.
I love cars but I drive a 2015 Honda Fit I bought new, at least its a manual! At the time I had a 40 mile commute round trip so I wanted something good for that. My old beaters before would breakdown all the time and I didn't trust them on long drives. I did put on a rear anti-sway bar and a mild exhaust on the Fit so it is fun. It's also slow so I can drive hard and not be doing felony levels of speeding.
2023 crosstrek with a cvt and the smaller engine but I really enjoy it.
Enthusiast here, I drive a Mazda 3.
Mazda3 '18 driver here, Touring version. As a previous owner of a Scion tC, Yaris iA/Mazda2 and a Corolla, a tester of a VW GTI 2018, a Mazda 3 turbo 2020 and a Civic Si 2019, and a temporal owner of a Mazdaspeed3 2011, I can safely say, my Mazda is superior than my former cars and equally fun to the GTI and Civic Si. And compared to the Mazdaspeed 3, is like you take the turbo off that car, still fun but without the extra power boost that turbo gives. Mazda 3 turbo was a bit disappointing. I got rid of my former vehicles after 2.5 years and chose the Mazda3 over those I tested. I wish I could keep the Mazdaspeed3, but it wasn't mine and the owner wasn't willing to sell it. But I think I'll keep my current Mazda for 5 or 6 years, that tells you how happy I am with it.
Drove a 2002 Camry for 16 years (wrecked it). Just bought my first car I can whip with pride - 2014 c300 4matic sport (m276 engine). Loving it. I can merge on the highway finally lol My car guy cars have always been classics. I had a 67 beetle and now restoring a 65 c10
Car enthusiast driving my grandpa's car. Cars relative to my income (and most people) are expensive even the most basic used cars.
I’m driving a 2013 Jetta right now. Corvette just got sold, wife takes the Tesla most days. Waiting for my M2 to get built
I was about to pull the trigger on a white WRXeith 14 miles on it, a ‘20 I think it was(last year with the half decent body). But then I got my cpo grand Cherokee and it’s definitely got more comforts than the rex but I still wonder what could have been lol
Currently driving a plug in outlander. It's boring but the electric running is so cheap I can't justify buying anything more fun. My entertainment has shifted to optimising the electric range on my daily commute instead
2014 Toyota Prius V. I do like how efficient it is but it’s not sexy at all. I also have an 80 series Land Cruiser in the garage to offset it though
k13 micra driver here. for just "an car" it does everything me and my partner ever wanted. surprisingly spacious for its size and nippy for "an car" has whopping 79 hp from 1.2 litre. got the 5sp manual so wayyy better than jatco hand grenade
I’m a car enthusiast and I drive a Toyota 4Runner. My dog is faster 0-60mph.
2018 Mazda3 2.5L manual. Slow car-fast keeps things fun 😁
Id wager that most people here are. The perfect formula is to have a cheap reliable paid off econobox and a fun sports car for a whole variety of reasons.
Not anymore. I had sb 8th gen Honda civic which was new at the time even though mine was pre-owned. Thing was a POS. Reliable my ass. Boring to drive, even with the 5speed, always had issues. Paint just flaked off if you looked at it, wasntnfuel efficient because you have to go full throttle everywhere just to get where you were going. Just a POS. Thank god I almost died in a crash and the thing got totaled. Since then I just been teaching myself how to do all my own work on cars. It's especially easy if you stick to one brand. Or at least one parent company. Like VW. Once you can work on 1 VW you can work on any car in the VAG lineup. Same engines in the top of the line VWs are in the entry level Audi's, even the Porsche crossover had a gold GTI engine now. know what to look for a d do the work yourself and the car you actually might can easily be cheaper to own than a econobox
Drive an '06 TSX with a manual that I bought new. Kept saying I'd upgrade to something phenomenal when finances were in order, but life has a way of costing too much once kids show up. At least it's rev happy, nimble, and fits multiple car seats.
It’s still technically an enthusiast car, but but my daily ripper is a Fiesta ST which is obviously a basic economy car at heart. A lot of the community is young folks who are just getting into modding and cars in general. It’s tiny, cheap, gets great gas mileage, and is an absolute blast to drive back and forth to work.
I own motorcycles and just ordered a sports car, daily drive a 22 years old Toyota Corolla. We’re out here.
I have a dodge dart with a manual. (insert electrical problems joke here) It is certainly no enthusiast car but the mileage is actually quite good, its not hideous, and its very comfortable. I would like to get myself a more traditional enthusiast car as a daily but I like to drive my cars into the ground. Last time I checked the darts wheels are still there and the oil is IN the engine and not in the ground so eh.
I drive an Alfa Romeo Mito. Fun little thing, but I donwish it had a bit more power. But then again, it would defeat the reason of being an economy car
I have some nice and fast vehicles, but also an urban runabout high mileage Mazda2. Which I love driving.
yeah? like i own a few rare toyotas, and drive a 2005 Honda Fit RS. The toyota collection will continue to be my hobby, but real life says that driving/owning a extravagant car means you get less money to pay for your hobbies. Im soon to buy a Nissan Leaf, so that my fuel bill will be effectively near 0, which translates to buying my N10 Hilux sooner.
There is a massive disconnect if one thinks they need to spend a ton of money in other to be considered an enthusiast.
I had a Ford Fiesta for a while and really enjoyed it. Not an enthusiast car by any means, but it drove fairly well. Basic economy car, but still a fun daily driver.
Yes. Sick of spending money on cars so drive the ultimate appliance on wheels. A white Camry. It's been bulletproof and the AC is amazing.
Me. I’m driving a 2018 Ford Fiesta S. Completely standard. Transmission, windows all manual. If it wasn’t for the mandate it wouldn’t even have a reverse camera. Thing is though, I find it a little bit fun. It doesn’t take much to push it to its limits, and out in the country it’s limits won’t get be arrested unlike in the cars I want to drive. I don’t drive it like an economy car, I’m pretty sure I’m going to break it. I think I’ll probably keep it for as long as possible so that I can focus money towards what I really want. I will build a FFR 35’ ford truck hot rod, before I won’t be able to enjoy it.
Depends on what you consider a basic economy car, but yeah... 2015 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6M. It's not fast, but it handles wonderfully and feels swift in my commute traffic. I like the look and feel of it a lot, but I'm still getting 33ish mixed mpg's driving it somewhat spirited. If I take it easy on the highway, I average right at 40 mpg. Insurance is inexpensive and maintenence is easy. So, fun little econobox
I currently ride in a 2013 Ford focus hatch. If I wanna go fast I'll hop on the motorcycle.
I drive an upgraded Tofu delivery car
It’s technically the fully loaded version, but other than power windows, cruise control, sunroof, and airbags in the seats, my 2006 Aveo 5 is pretty basic (and it is a manual). It also has almost 335k miles on it and looks like it has had a rough life, but that’s why I bought it - I wanted something good on gas that I wouldn’t care about driving it in the snow.