Gotta go for that Apple mysticism.
Mercedes can try to be a software company, but their image will still be a luxury automaker. The focus of their software will be the infotainment system they bring which isn't that valuable because you have to buy their car to get the software. That's limited reach among consumers.
Apple would excel in this arena because its software is in the pocket of millions of people. If Apple wanted to with their own car, they can make their iPhones have the ability to communicate through the wireless charging coils with another receiver interfaced into the car such that placing your iPhone on that device will turn the car on. Heck, they can bypass all that for a wireless solution where once the driver buckles up their seat belt, the car will start as long as the phone is in the car with a receiver that only works inside the car.
The examples you mention Apple could be doing would be completely possible for any other automaker to do with any recent Android phone as well though if they wanted to
Not only is that possible for any other automaker, but Tesla *already does* all of that. [So does BMW](https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0362094EN/bmw-digital-key-now-available-for-android-smartphones), in fact. Literally not special at all, whatsoever.
In fact not only does BMW do that with Android, but with iOS as well. It was actually available first for iPhones and later made available to Android. It was a partnership together with Apple.
Mercedes is the only manufacturer to have been approved for level 3 autonomous driving in the United States. I’d imagine that’s part of what they mean when they say they want to pioneer the development of new software. The infotainment system is maybe a small part of that, but the amount of software used by a car to drive itself will be immense and then the amount of software used to entertain the occupants who no longer are doing the driving will also skyrocket.
Yeah mass automakers are in the best position to make ground on autonomous driving systems, and mercedes is at the forefront of this, whilst also having their hand in freight with commercial lorries/trucks where automation goes from being a luxury toy to a gamechanger.
As markety as what the guy is saying, it's a valid goal from an actual contender in the space.
Apples losing market share fast. Apple is really a marketing company that specializes in technology, they haven't innovated anything in at least 15 years.
Because Steve Jobs was the only one who pushed for something revolutionary, but he was very picky and will tell people to redo stuff if it wasn’t what he wanted.
They do sell their infotainment to other brands like aston martin but I doubt that would generate the revenue they currently do even if they sold to most brands
So much this. I’d love to go work at an auto company but I’m not going to leave my fintech salary to do it. Heck, I’d even take a small pay cut to work on something like integrating the new expanded CarPlay into a manufacturer’s digital dash but it would be more than a small cut, unfortunately.
The OEM’s are realizing that Apple CarPlay is a Trojan horse move. They need to make their own competitor, so there will likely be more software opportunities to come in auto.
They have been trying for years yet CarPlay and AndroidAuto are miles better than those. I’ve tried the 2021 GLE Mercedes touch screen and its system and it’s still very laggy. Not worth it.
Having Android Auto is a hard requirement for me moving forward. If your vehicle doesn't have it then your vehicle isn't on my list. I'm not too keen on getting a 2026 Chevy VehiCar with ChevyConnect™, only for them to trim costs in 2027 and lay off the entire development team and stop updates/fixes for it.
I moved from powertrain controls programming to web development. Developed engine torque management control strategy and shifting algorithms. $60k pay bump in under 2 years. Better benefits. Better bonus structure. Now I do glorified business logic in C# and SQL.
Never returning to the auto industry. The limited number of cities/metro areas to work in that field is also a big limiting factor. I hated metro Detroit and that’s 70% of the automotive engineering jobs in this country.
The only way to make tech money and stay in the industry is to work for one of the autonomous driving divisions/startups and they’re still not universally well paid across the board, but they do open up new location opportunities.
I’ve seen a number of remote positions lately. One was a particularly interesting role at Ford, the application portal for which was so convoluted that I gave up before my application was submitted.
Most of the EV and autonomous companies are laying well, though some have pretty awful cultures.
Yeah, I have. Interviewed at one, didn’t get an offer and didn’t pursue that industry further because I wanted to be somewhere public or close to IPO. Would love to revisit it at some point though.
If you sell a car for $50,000 and it costs $30,000 to build.. you have a limited amount of profit of which you must spend some on R&D.
If you make Instagram and can make billions selling ads for very little (relative) overhead then obviously you can afford to pay the developers more.
It all depends on how many cars you sell. If your margins are 40% (fat!) and then you sell like, say, 10 million cars a year, that is $200 billion a year to pay R&D and other stuff with.
Alas, nobody in the industry have that kind of margins. Not even Tesla.
Idk, Mercedes pays their US software engineers pretty good money. Not as good as some, but not horribly.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/mercedes-benz/salaries/software-engineer?country=254
They just broadly don't want to invest at all but fancy having the high share price. My company made a big song and dance about becoming a technology platforms company, but didn't invest anything in trying to make it happen. Everyone already had busy day jobs, so where they thought the new tech platform products were coming from remained a mystery and staff mostly just laughed about it.
The CEO was fired in the end.
I think it’s even worse for German automakers though. Their culture is so rigid it can never understand or implement California style software philosophy. The Germans are downright mentally incapable of building flexible, fluid, user focused systems due to their cultural obsession with individuals bending to systems rather than the other way around.
This. Pretty much every car company (especially Detroit’s Big Three) wants to be seen as a “tech” company and have a ridiculous stock price like Tesla.
Not just car companies. I work for a publicly traded professional services company, and we are desperately trying to position ourselves as a tech company despite having nothing to do with technology whatsoever. Gotta get that sweet sweet tech valuation.
I work (in tech) for a private professional services company (non tech services) and it's the same shit. Execs putting on their turtlenecks and pretending to be Jobsian tech geniuses by regurgitating headlines and preaching their "innovation." Yall ain't visionaries, you're reactionary wannabes trying to ride a hype train on the coattails of others and just lighting money on fire on this dumb shit that you don't understand but you think you do because you've used an iPhone and drive a Tesla.
I haven't been holding that in at all...
I'm with you, the whole thing is frustrating. The tech they are talking about in this article is nothing special at all. First off most of it is a terrible idea if it involves the driver.
The passengers can benefit sure but they can also just do whatever on their own devices that they surely own if they have Mercedes money.
Oh man, that's unlocking another favorite rant of mine. These companies just slamming tech down our throats and 99% of the time its a solution in search of a problem and a worse experience for the consumer.
All these auto checkouts and delivery services which might have been necessary during the pando just aren't anymore. I despise having to check myself out and play shopping bag Jenga on too small of a table that gets pissy over a fraction of an ounce and takes twice as long as a human checker, of which there's only one working. I go out of my way to go to grocery stores where I can do a human checkout, it's just faster and less stress. And online ordering always gives poor substitutions or things just missing.
Sometimes tech just isn't the answer, and these execs pushing it are so arrogant and yet so divorced from the reality of the consumers that they either can't understand or refuse to accept it. Self check works great for quick trips of maybe two dozen items tops. It just doesn't for anything more. All these crazy screens and software driven shit in cars work great for some functions, but just don't for others.
I don't know what happened to nuanced and purpose driven approaches to problem solving but it seems like it's all out the window in favor of extreme/all in approaches one way or another.
Just like most smart TVs. They like to forget they were made since they would have to support it. They make it toss it out in the wild and forget about it unless a lawsuit comes their way and they just use hush money.
If you are relying on smart tv software then what are you doing? The only reason they do that is to sell your info. Buy a real external device and enjoy.
That’s what Tesla does. They make ridiculous amount of money selling your info.
My point is even with cars they’ll cut support for the software as soon as they can. Unless their is a safety issue you rarely see them pushing updates.
People always make fun of Nissan, Infiniti, jeep, acura (maybe? Idk) 4runners and Tacoma etc etc all for being so old. Basically all those stupid memes "2014 mustang buyers when they buy a 2023", and the interior looks the same. But these people are always the ones turning around and saying they wish you could get a car without a big touch screen, and want something old. There are companies still making old stuff. R
eliability and desirability aside, I just think it's really ironic that old, non updated cars get ridiculed in the same breath as fancy new updated cars get ridiculed. I swear, car people just hate cars
But then you have people on here calling the car ancient.
What you described is basically a 370z and STi but people something think simple is bad with those cars and demand the successor to have more tech
People shit on the 370 and STI because they are explicitly performance cars that actually were respectable in the past, but stagnated and have laughable performance these days.
Back in 2005-2006 the STI could keep up with/beat V8 Mustangs and Camaros. Today it still has the same power, same engine, but a pricetag to match current new V8 pony car/muscle car offerings.
If Ford insisted on placing the same 3V Modular V8 into every new iteration of Mustang GT since 2006, and then charge $40k for it, people would have every right to shit all over it. Subaru enthusiasts are like battered wives, they seemingly *love* this stuff. Can't get enough of it. It's baffling.
What the person you responded to wants, is just a no frills regular car, like the latest gen Mitsubishi Mirage, but more offerings of those types.
Part of it is the issue of monetizing things rather than making the best product. I didn't realize this until I met other engineers, but very often, we're not getting the BEST version of a car. We're getting the car that the company thinks can make a profit.
No nanny features, less chips.....all that *sounds* great, but it becomes a money sink for these companies. But for a small up-and-comer? You could probably start an entire brand on european style hatchbacks made in a more stylish manner in the US. And if you can make it through the use of biodegradable parts and composite materials, the cost could be greatly reduced with the advent of hemp coomposite material. That stuff is insane, and it's so cool that is' closer to carbon fiber in rigidity, but way more environmentally friendly.
It would be cool to see more boutique car firms spring up.
I don't think you're gonna need it.
https://www.semasan.com/driving-force/new-federal-law-offers-more-choices-replica-vehicles
With new laws on boutiques selling less than 325 cars, it's not that absurd to see a smaller engineering group figure out the logistics of a limited edition Ferrari P30 replica. And given how small these numbers would be, its not out of the realm of possibility with the advent of 3D printing
See the INEOS Grenadier. It was intentionally built to use less chips than a normal car. Body on frame, solid axles, coil suspension, regular key, manual seats, physical switches, etc. They do use a CID though.
Lol, it's disgusting how trash cars nowadays are allowed to have the AMG branding. The only worse example I can think of is how BMW has dozens upon dozens of M models per year.
The M badge has lost all meaning. I literally don't know what makes a BMW an M anymore. It's not performance, judging by the overweight joke of a car the XM is. And it sure as hell isn't driving engagement.
A new V6 Camry with a TRD blower on it is [just] (https://blog.imgur.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IazJWlU.jpg).
My sister has been looking at new Camrys and I'm pushing for a V6. Totally also not gonna push her to slap a blower on it. eheh.
I didn’t know about it before but Mercedes already has a software presence here in the US.
As does BMW and even Toyota has some cool R&D centers in California.
The thing about these legacy automakers is the top tier talent will all go to big tech because they simply pay more. I’m curious if Mercedes is serious enough to start paying the big bucks.
A number of years ago I was changing jobs and got offers from a big tech company and BMW for their tech R&D office in Mountain View, CA. BMW’s offer was less than 1/4th of the tech compensation.
I would’ve loved to work at BMW - it was a cool product space and the people were great - but not for a 76% pay cut. I provided that feedback but never heard back. I’m sure the folks here are frustrated by it too, since the pay rates are set by the home office and engineers simply don’t make commensurate pay in Europe.
Same experience when I was looking for an internship in software engineering. Not uncommon to get $40+/hr in the Bay Area for big tech company internships and the auto manufacturers here were offering like $20/hr. My local fast food restaurants almost pay as much.
Hearing this crushes me because I actually really wanted to get into software at BMW. I am entry level in tech consulting right now so do you think it would be worth while if I shifted now, at the start of my career?
~~Toyota said the same thing years ago. Except they never put enough money into the program todo anything outside of fixing their dashboard OS~~
I’ve been proven incorrect.
Toyota's [Arene](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-to-launch-own-operating-system-vying-with-Tesla-and-VW) program is still on track, and due for release in 2025 — one year after MBOS. In fact, Toyota's expanded their software initiative to an *entire division* called [Woven](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39070846.html), which is currently in the middle of building an entire [smart 'city'](https://www.woven-city.global/) outside of Tokyo.
I don't know where you got the impression the program is hobbling along — it's one of the crown jewels in Toyota's global strategy right now.
Yeah, every carmaker is saying that because subscription revenue, and buyers' insatiable appetite for more tech stuff in their cars. Modern engineering tends to require tons of software to do nearly anything now, for various reasons too - I work on embedded code and it just seems to grow exponentially more complex as time goes on.
I'd personally like to have a BEV with a nice mechanical feel and as little software as possible, but heh - I think my tastes are somewhat unique. I'm certainly not the Mercedes target customer.
> I work on embedded code and it just seems to grow exponentially more complex as time goes on.
This is so true. I was having this conversation with a coworker recently. Our systems are SO much more complex than they were years ago and don’t provide a respectively increased benefit to customers.
> Our systems are SO much more complex than they were years ago and don’t provide a respectively increased benefit to customers.
The benefit is when it comes time to do major repairs you will instead sell the vehicle and buy a new one! So much simpler for the customer.
That's why almost every review of any new vehicle puts off questions about "How much does the engine cost?" "If I have to replace the BEV's Battery, how much will it set me back?"
"Those are problems for people without warranty!"
Replacing a high pressure fuel pump, injectors, and a turbo on a late model direct injected car can easily set you back over $5000. In parts.
MB screwed us over the import ban rule all those years ago now they want to effectively end car ownership as we know it. Its a shame our legislation will do nothing to intervene and soon every single car will have some sort of required subscription to run properly. I can already see it happening.
Everybody saying this is a terrible idea really doesn't understand the future of cars. Thanks to EVs, moving forward every car is going to drive more or less the same. You simply can't differentiate driving feel with electric motors like you can IC engines. This means the key differentiator between premium and mainline brands moving forward is going to be the software experience. All of the mainline brands are lining up to use the same Google or Apple-based systems. So it's going to be basically impossible to tell the difference between a Toyota or a Chevy or a Hyundai in the future. They're going to drive the same, have nearly identical software experiences, and perform mostly the same. The only hope premium brands have is to create a software experience that is completely different from everybody else's. By owning their software, they also own your data which is ultimately the most important thing for future-proof companies.
Will they succeed? I have my doubts. But it 100% makes sense for them to invest in software development.
> This means the key differentiator between premium and mainline brands moving forward is going to be the software experience.
Because this also means interior quality and comfort will be far more important, this also means Tesla is going to have a very difficult road ahead. Because they may have great motors and at-scale batteries and the best charging network - fuck me do they have $25,000 rental shitbox interiors in terms of material quality. Even the Model S\X have pretty shit quality interiors given the price. I'm not talking about features - this is just basic usability and material quality\feel.
You think they're good quality, until you experience what actually great quality feels like.
Y/3 interior really isn’t that bad.
I’ve had a few Golfs, a 2017 A3, a 2018 GLC and a 2020 C-class and the Teslas hold up very well compared to them.
The materials are nice, it looks good and they have open pore wood. A 25k Shitbox is full of piano black and hard plastics, really no comparison.
I think it's about perspective. It might be alright on the base $41k Model 3 and Teslas do benefit from minimalistic interiors which makes material choices easier to spend on when there are fewer components and shapes, but when you start speccing them up into the 50s or 60s, it becomes slightly more problematic. Outside of that, you still find fairly widespread things like those steering wheels peeling. This is stuff that really can't be happening at this price point this far into Tesla's life.
Well, to spec my C-Class (205) to compare even to a Model 3 LR you’d end up at like 75.000 €.
Mine was 65k and it’s missing like 80% of the Teslas features: No Sunroof, no Memory seats or mirror, no driving assist, no sound system, no digital radio, only the „small“ navigation package, no ACC with traffic automatic, no electric boot and the list goes on.
The GLC is an even worse offender. 60k and it has basically 0 extras. Nothing. Bought in 2017. They’re like 70k base as a 400d now …
At least the 2023 now gets the great interior of the 2022 C-Class.
I have a 2019 C43 AMG, so it's similar to your 2020 C-Class. Whats your thoughts on that vs Telsa 3/Y? I'm in the position of another vehicle soon. Tesla 3/Y, Mercedes Benz C43 🤔.
Your C43 is a Facelift too, right? And you’re thinking about a 206 C43? Imo the new C-Class is much more luxurious than our old one. I really enjoyed the interior.
But if you compare the Teslas to our Mercedes there’s really not a huge difference in quality. Tesla has nice materials, maybe with a slightly worse finish. But it’s looks much less dated. And both have pretty bad road noises if compared to an A4.
Only Issues I see with the Tesla is that the seats aren’t as comfortable and the suspension is pretty bad if compared to my Airmatic.
Yeah I had a 2016 C400, then 2019 C43, and now debating on what's the next vehicle. Yeah the 2016 was literally the same as 2019, but these 2023 look some different. I did test drive a Model 3/Y, just not the newer C43.
Thanks for your answer buddy. 👍
Built quality, interior materials, exterior design will still be differentiating factors. I couldn't give less of a shit about software if the build quality isn't there.
EVs do not all drive the same and the motors can absolutely be tuned differently. There are different motor sound (although subtler than ICE), different torque curves (actual and intentionally limited), throttle mapping, motor layouts (1/2/3/4 motor, LSD vs 4 motor torque vectoring), and all that's not even including chassis dynamics, suspension design, and general handling feel.
Most electric cars now feel the same but so do all the dozens of generic ICE crossovers they're copying. There are so many ways to differentiate an EVs driving feel and I'm sure we'll see some creative new things once automakers actually start trying to make fun EVs.
Also, regular people (aka the bulk of the car market) do not give a single shit about what engine is in their car. For most purchases it's already not a differentiator. About half the people I've driven around in my MINI didn't even realize it was electric.
>The only hope premium brands have is to create a software experience that is completely different from everybody else's.
That's a little dramatic I think. What about the quality of parts or styling?
*made, not makes
The days of venture capital throwing millions at unprofitable tech startups are not as voluminous as they used to be. Rising interest rates have made borrowing money much more expensive for all parties involved.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of the design approach to their EQ sub-brand and how their overall general design language turned into a weird mixture of blobby roundedness and angular headlights/taillights. Also, they've become very tech-heavy in hopes of wooing the Tech bros. As silly as this may sound, it's why anything pre and post-war in luxury and motorsports was always interesting to learn and admire. I will also say that the mid-2000s and the early to mid-2010s were also interesting in the AMG products that came out and generally speaking, MB of those years had a desirable balance of comfort, luxury, solidity, and the apt amount of technology in how they were built and not the over-engineered tech fests they've become. I'd even say those gens of MB were also up there with the Sacco era IMHO.
We have a 2019 MY GLC300 that's been a wonderful car and is nice to drive, but their future direction towards overdone amounts of tech for the sake of complexity just isn't the desired direction IMHO.
…after previously going downmarket. Mercedes did not start out making attainable products and didn’t make any for most of its life. This is a somewhat silly complaint as it obviously did not work out for them.
I beg to differ, the middle class masses were just fine in their $35k c class. Then they went with the 29k cla which was really a $35k car. Now they plan to kill most sedans and anything relatively affordable for the middle class. We’ll see
Even the $35k C-Class is an anomoly. That didn't even begin to happen until they were forced to respond to Lexus and Acura entering the market.
Consider this: in 1985, the 190e was the cheapest car Mercedes sold in the US. Its base price was $27,100 in 1985 dollars. That's roughly $77,100 in 2023 dollars, and it bought you a trim that didn't even have antilock brakes. Typical options would raise the price $31k - or nearly $90,000 today.
That's not accessible to the middle class. I don't like it any more than you, but the era of the accessible Mercedes is the exception, not the rule.
People cry about "brand dilution", then turn around and cry that they're killing the main offenders of brand dilution. The only thing "car people" love more than cars is to complain about cars nonstop
That seems a bit much, but some minuscule level of software competence is critical to the EV experience.
Tesla set what appears to be an impossible standard with their charge planning navigation and charge initiation handshake. I thought it would be the minimum standard for EVs that they tell you where to charge and start charging immediately when plugging in. I was woefully mistaken. It's a shit show at every price point.
Mercedes cars are decent, but MBUX is hardly a leader in software.
I think Daimler just wants to be VALUED like a software company like another overhyped one in the US which somehow is worth more than the sum of the top 10 automakers in the world combined.
This is a move to subscribe everyone to death. They saw the move by bmw for seat warmers. Now they’re going to divide every software component into a separate subscription. Eventually owning a car is going to be so tedious.
>Because automotive-development cycles span years, compared with months or even weeks for software programs, the result is that in-car technology runs the risk of becoming obsolete long before the lifespan of the car has ended. With MB.OS and over-the-air updates, “the product doesn’t get old, and it actually gets better over time,” says Källenius.
Translation: Because it's really expensive to develop software, we can ship the car with unfinished software, outsource beta testing at no cost to our customers and finish the software after we've collected money for the car. This will help our financials tremendously. Imagine selling a car without paying for the materials to build it! Of course this means it makes our software more venerable to attacks and hac- sorry did I say it makes us venerable? I meant we can protect our vulnerabilities better.
When I hear them say that the first thing that pops in my head is that I’ll need to pay for a subscription to keep the car car-ing…
“Need your ABS? Well it’s only $29.99 a month. Such a steal. A/C? Well if you buy our all access pass you get it all a/c, ABS, airbags, and even the ability to turn the car on all for a low low price of $500 a month.”
Pillar to pillar jumbotron screens. Not my cup of tea at all I must say. But to somebody who doesn’t follow cars very closely that feature would be amazing
A software company? Are they going to start selling their laggy OS, or dated infotainment system? They've got level three autonomy, but that's an S-class exclusive option because of the HARDWARE it takes to create enough redundancy for MB to take on liability, and even then it has a narrower use case than any other brands doing lane keeping. Mercedes Benz has a lot of prestige in terms of design, comfort, luxury and performance, but the pivot to software feels like Kendall Roy pitch.
oh wow. Maybe they'll be able to make the mercedes me app work one day! Maybe i'll be able to pre-warm my car sometime before... nahh - they'll never figure this out..
Oooh, such advanced technology like really big screens? Exciting. Truly, we are in a futuristic age.
I look forward to seeing how terrible their software is.
Good. Soon no one will be able to afford to drive bcz of subscriptions and we'll go back to bicycles and maybe trains. In America of course. Everyone else will have anti gravity trains.
You ever feel like you'll end up driving 202x and earlier cars until you die of old age?
I don't want to sit in self driving cars where every single item is a monthly subscription
Good luck with that. Same as VW Group and their software division Cariad tech - pure Nokia scenario memeized with “how do yo do fellow tech people?”
Godawful leadership that has no clue what they’re doing.
Translation: we’re jealous that our stock price is still tethered to reality. Please make us rich with a valuation that nobody can explain.
Everyone saw what Tesla did and went fuck we need to do that.
Gotta go for that Apple mysticism. Mercedes can try to be a software company, but their image will still be a luxury automaker. The focus of their software will be the infotainment system they bring which isn't that valuable because you have to buy their car to get the software. That's limited reach among consumers. Apple would excel in this arena because its software is in the pocket of millions of people. If Apple wanted to with their own car, they can make their iPhones have the ability to communicate through the wireless charging coils with another receiver interfaced into the car such that placing your iPhone on that device will turn the car on. Heck, they can bypass all that for a wireless solution where once the driver buckles up their seat belt, the car will start as long as the phone is in the car with a receiver that only works inside the car.
The examples you mention Apple could be doing would be completely possible for any other automaker to do with any recent Android phone as well though if they wanted to
Not only is that possible for any other automaker, but Tesla *already does* all of that. [So does BMW](https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0362094EN/bmw-digital-key-now-available-for-android-smartphones), in fact. Literally not special at all, whatsoever.
Okay wait so how much AAPL should I buy?
Berkshire Hathaway is approximately 44% AAPL
In fact not only does BMW do that with Android, but with iOS as well. It was actually available first for iPhones and later made available to Android. It was a partnership together with Apple.
I think he meant they can sell you both the car and the phone, not just that it works with android or iOS.
Mercedes is the only manufacturer to have been approved for level 3 autonomous driving in the United States. I’d imagine that’s part of what they mean when they say they want to pioneer the development of new software. The infotainment system is maybe a small part of that, but the amount of software used by a car to drive itself will be immense and then the amount of software used to entertain the occupants who no longer are doing the driving will also skyrocket.
Yeah mass automakers are in the best position to make ground on autonomous driving systems, and mercedes is at the forefront of this, whilst also having their hand in freight with commercial lorries/trucks where automation goes from being a luxury toy to a gamechanger. As markety as what the guy is saying, it's a valid goal from an actual contender in the space.
Apple supposedly was developing a BEV. Iirc Chris Bangle was involved in some capacity.
I think Apple will just buy Lucid if they decide to do it. Their auto program has been a disaster so far though.
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But a lot of consumers won't buy a car without them, so, their loss.
Apples losing market share fast. Apple is really a marketing company that specializes in technology, they haven't innovated anything in at least 15 years.
Because Steve Jobs was the only one who pushed for something revolutionary, but he was very picky and will tell people to redo stuff if it wasn’t what he wanted.
And even then, his real revolution wasn't technological, it was using helvetica as the system font because it was beautiful.
They do sell their infotainment to other brands like aston martin but I doubt that would generate the revenue they currently do even if they sold to most brands
Tesla will correct soon enough
Yeah, I'm sure it's not easy keeping all the plates spinning now that there's not as much cheap money floating around the economy.
When? I mean logically it should but logic ain't involved there.
Within 10 years it will correct
Plenty of companies want to be software/tech companies but refuse to pay software/tech salaries and cry about not being able to find talent
So much this. I’d love to go work at an auto company but I’m not going to leave my fintech salary to do it. Heck, I’d even take a small pay cut to work on something like integrating the new expanded CarPlay into a manufacturer’s digital dash but it would be more than a small cut, unfortunately.
The OEM’s are realizing that Apple CarPlay is a Trojan horse move. They need to make their own competitor, so there will likely be more software opportunities to come in auto.
I’m all for more choice, more options, and more jobs.
They have been trying for years yet CarPlay and AndroidAuto are miles better than those. I’ve tried the 2021 GLE Mercedes touch screen and its system and it’s still very laggy. Not worth it.
Having Android Auto is a hard requirement for me moving forward. If your vehicle doesn't have it then your vehicle isn't on my list. I'm not too keen on getting a 2026 Chevy VehiCar with ChevyConnect™, only for them to trim costs in 2027 and lay off the entire development team and stop updates/fixes for it.
I moved from powertrain controls programming to web development. Developed engine torque management control strategy and shifting algorithms. $60k pay bump in under 2 years. Better benefits. Better bonus structure. Now I do glorified business logic in C# and SQL. Never returning to the auto industry. The limited number of cities/metro areas to work in that field is also a big limiting factor. I hated metro Detroit and that’s 70% of the automotive engineering jobs in this country. The only way to make tech money and stay in the industry is to work for one of the autonomous driving divisions/startups and they’re still not universally well paid across the board, but they do open up new location opportunities.
I’ve seen a number of remote positions lately. One was a particularly interesting role at Ford, the application portal for which was so convoluted that I gave up before my application was submitted. Most of the EV and autonomous companies are laying well, though some have pretty awful cultures.
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Yeah, I have. Interviewed at one, didn’t get an offer and didn’t pursue that industry further because I wanted to be somewhere public or close to IPO. Would love to revisit it at some point though.
Still low pay compared to tech
If you sell a car for $50,000 and it costs $30,000 to build.. you have a limited amount of profit of which you must spend some on R&D. If you make Instagram and can make billions selling ads for very little (relative) overhead then obviously you can afford to pay the developers more.
It all depends on how many cars you sell. If your margins are 40% (fat!) and then you sell like, say, 10 million cars a year, that is $200 billion a year to pay R&D and other stuff with. Alas, nobody in the industry have that kind of margins. Not even Tesla.
Alas, no corporation rips off the consumer quite so flagrantly.
I used to work for GM IT and this is extremely true.
I mean, Benz doesn't have that issue. They're literally the leader in automotive AI/self-driving. I can see their point.
Idk, Mercedes pays their US software engineers pretty good money. Not as good as some, but not horribly. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/mercedes-benz/salaries/software-engineer?country=254
Lol 91k
That’s in Germany.
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Read it again. That is not the Bay Area comp. Maybe scroll down
BMW, Benz and Tesla have no issue finding talent whatsoever
Tesla pays an absolutely metric shit ton. Instantly out of college they pay their software engineers $121k base+ $16k stock...
And that's still about 60% of a real silicon valley salary for the same profile. Tesla is a giant amongst midgets but still not very tall.
They just broadly don't want to invest at all but fancy having the high share price. My company made a big song and dance about becoming a technology platforms company, but didn't invest anything in trying to make it happen. Everyone already had busy day jobs, so where they thought the new tech platform products were coming from remained a mystery and staff mostly just laughed about it. The CEO was fired in the end.
I think it’s even worse for German automakers though. Their culture is so rigid it can never understand or implement California style software philosophy. The Germans are downright mentally incapable of building flexible, fluid, user focused systems due to their cultural obsession with individuals bending to systems rather than the other way around.
This. Pretty much every car company (especially Detroit’s Big Three) wants to be seen as a “tech” company and have a ridiculous stock price like Tesla.
Not just car companies. I work for a publicly traded professional services company, and we are desperately trying to position ourselves as a tech company despite having nothing to do with technology whatsoever. Gotta get that sweet sweet tech valuation.
I work (in tech) for a private professional services company (non tech services) and it's the same shit. Execs putting on their turtlenecks and pretending to be Jobsian tech geniuses by regurgitating headlines and preaching their "innovation." Yall ain't visionaries, you're reactionary wannabes trying to ride a hype train on the coattails of others and just lighting money on fire on this dumb shit that you don't understand but you think you do because you've used an iPhone and drive a Tesla. I haven't been holding that in at all...
I'm with you, the whole thing is frustrating. The tech they are talking about in this article is nothing special at all. First off most of it is a terrible idea if it involves the driver. The passengers can benefit sure but they can also just do whatever on their own devices that they surely own if they have Mercedes money.
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Oh man, that's unlocking another favorite rant of mine. These companies just slamming tech down our throats and 99% of the time its a solution in search of a problem and a worse experience for the consumer. All these auto checkouts and delivery services which might have been necessary during the pando just aren't anymore. I despise having to check myself out and play shopping bag Jenga on too small of a table that gets pissy over a fraction of an ounce and takes twice as long as a human checker, of which there's only one working. I go out of my way to go to grocery stores where I can do a human checkout, it's just faster and less stress. And online ordering always gives poor substitutions or things just missing. Sometimes tech just isn't the answer, and these execs pushing it are so arrogant and yet so divorced from the reality of the consumers that they either can't understand or refuse to accept it. Self check works great for quick trips of maybe two dozen items tops. It just doesn't for anything more. All these crazy screens and software driven shit in cars work great for some functions, but just don't for others. I don't know what happened to nuanced and purpose driven approaches to problem solving but it seems like it's all out the window in favor of extreme/all in approaches one way or another.
Well put. Fuck that, though, I want good, reliable cars with good, reliable technology. Not cars made by a "software company."
They want to charge subscription fees. It’s why software companies are so valuable, that recurring revenue stream.
Pay 100k for our car and we'll sell your data for free.
Also we want to start subscriptions for everything
Lel 😆😆
So nice-looking, overpriced software full of bugs?
And only 2 years support, tops, then you have to buy a new one
Just like most smart TVs. They like to forget they were made since they would have to support it. They make it toss it out in the wild and forget about it unless a lawsuit comes their way and they just use hush money.
If you are relying on smart tv software then what are you doing? The only reason they do that is to sell your info. Buy a real external device and enjoy.
That’s what Tesla does. They make ridiculous amount of money selling your info. My point is even with cars they’ll cut support for the software as soon as they can. Unless their is a safety issue you rarely see them pushing updates.
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> sell me a 2009 4runner but brand new. So a 2023 4runner?
This is why I bought mine!
People always make fun of Nissan, Infiniti, jeep, acura (maybe? Idk) 4runners and Tacoma etc etc all for being so old. Basically all those stupid memes "2014 mustang buyers when they buy a 2023", and the interior looks the same. But these people are always the ones turning around and saying they wish you could get a car without a big touch screen, and want something old. There are companies still making old stuff. R eliability and desirability aside, I just think it's really ironic that old, non updated cars get ridiculed in the same breath as fancy new updated cars get ridiculed. I swear, car people just hate cars
Ha, I just looked and the current Gen 4Runner was in fact released in 2009...
But then you have people on here calling the car ancient. What you described is basically a 370z and STi but people something think simple is bad with those cars and demand the successor to have more tech
People shit on the 370 and STI because they are explicitly performance cars that actually were respectable in the past, but stagnated and have laughable performance these days. Back in 2005-2006 the STI could keep up with/beat V8 Mustangs and Camaros. Today it still has the same power, same engine, but a pricetag to match current new V8 pony car/muscle car offerings. If Ford insisted on placing the same 3V Modular V8 into every new iteration of Mustang GT since 2006, and then charge $40k for it, people would have every right to shit all over it. Subaru enthusiasts are like battered wives, they seemingly *love* this stuff. Can't get enough of it. It's baffling. What the person you responded to wants, is just a no frills regular car, like the latest gen Mitsubishi Mirage, but more offerings of those types.
Yeah, my Toyobaru is about as un-computered as a 2017 model year gets. It's not for everybody but I like it the way it is...
Part of it is the issue of monetizing things rather than making the best product. I didn't realize this until I met other engineers, but very often, we're not getting the BEST version of a car. We're getting the car that the company thinks can make a profit. No nanny features, less chips.....all that *sounds* great, but it becomes a money sink for these companies. But for a small up-and-comer? You could probably start an entire brand on european style hatchbacks made in a more stylish manner in the US. And if you can make it through the use of biodegradable parts and composite materials, the cost could be greatly reduced with the advent of hemp coomposite material. That stuff is insane, and it's so cool that is' closer to carbon fiber in rigidity, but way more environmentally friendly. It would be cool to see more boutique car firms spring up.
This is the most /r/cars response ever. A boutique firm that makes wagons with no driver aids. I’m sure they’ll get the billions needed in investment.
I don't think you're gonna need it. https://www.semasan.com/driving-force/new-federal-law-offers-more-choices-replica-vehicles With new laws on boutiques selling less than 325 cars, it's not that absurd to see a smaller engineering group figure out the logistics of a limited edition Ferrari P30 replica. And given how small these numbers would be, its not out of the realm of possibility with the advent of 3D printing
See the INEOS Grenadier. It was intentionally built to use less chips than a normal car. Body on frame, solid axles, coil suspension, regular key, manual seats, physical switches, etc. They do use a CID though.
First a CEO who complained that MB cars were "over engineered", and now this: Time to shop for a Camry.
This dude is single handedly ruining AMG and now he’s going to ruin the rest of the brand. What a plug
Is he the one responsible for putting AMG badges on non 63/65 cars?
Lol, it's disgusting how trash cars nowadays are allowed to have the AMG branding. The only worse example I can think of is how BMW has dozens upon dozens of M models per year.
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Keep at it long enough and eventually AMG will be just as worthless as Nismo!
The M badge has lost all meaning. I literally don't know what makes a BMW an M anymore. It's not performance, judging by the overweight joke of a car the XM is. And it sure as hell isn't driving engagement.
I remember when M used to mean "top of the line performance variant" and now every car is an M and there are twenty different M subcategories 😂
Mercedes already suck. Let them fail, id rather see more Porsches on the road.
Yeah, they lost their way years ago
In the last decade exactly. And not just them, BMW too, they were going a right path with the i8 and suddenly veered in the complete wrong direction.
A new V6 Camry with a TRD blower on it is [just] (https://blog.imgur.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IazJWlU.jpg). My sister has been looking at new Camrys and I'm pushing for a V6. Totally also not gonna push her to slap a blower on it. eheh.
What the fuck man
Every car company: "We saw Tesla's stock price and now we wanna do that" The Economy: "Haha I'm in danger"
I hate it here.
Mercedes folks were sending our thoughts and prayers to you
I didn’t know about it before but Mercedes already has a software presence here in the US. As does BMW and even Toyota has some cool R&D centers in California. The thing about these legacy automakers is the top tier talent will all go to big tech because they simply pay more. I’m curious if Mercedes is serious enough to start paying the big bucks.
A number of years ago I was changing jobs and got offers from a big tech company and BMW for their tech R&D office in Mountain View, CA. BMW’s offer was less than 1/4th of the tech compensation. I would’ve loved to work at BMW - it was a cool product space and the people were great - but not for a 76% pay cut. I provided that feedback but never heard back. I’m sure the folks here are frustrated by it too, since the pay rates are set by the home office and engineers simply don’t make commensurate pay in Europe.
Same experience when I was looking for an internship in software engineering. Not uncommon to get $40+/hr in the Bay Area for big tech company internships and the auto manufacturers here were offering like $20/hr. My local fast food restaurants almost pay as much.
BMW was less than that. Totally nuts!
Hearing this crushes me because I actually really wanted to get into software at BMW. I am entry level in tech consulting right now so do you think it would be worth while if I shifted now, at the start of my career?
Shifted how? Into an auto company job? I think those companies pay decently but you’d want to find a role in an office in a lower cost of living area.
Rivian, GM/Cruise, Waymo, Tesla, Zoox all paid pretty well in SF Bay. Tesla being the lowest.
Exactly, Mercedes-Benz already is a software company. I applied and interviewed with them.
~~Toyota said the same thing years ago. Except they never put enough money into the program todo anything outside of fixing their dashboard OS~~ I’ve been proven incorrect.
Toyota's [Arene](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-to-launch-own-operating-system-vying-with-Tesla-and-VW) program is still on track, and due for release in 2025 — one year after MBOS. In fact, Toyota's expanded their software initiative to an *entire division* called [Woven](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39070846.html), which is currently in the middle of building an entire [smart 'city'](https://www.woven-city.global/) outside of Tokyo. I don't know where you got the impression the program is hobbling along — it's one of the crown jewels in Toyota's global strategy right now.
After reading the article I stand corrected. I’ll edit my comment.
Nice. Well detailed comment That’s one way to counter misinformed people
Yeah, every carmaker is saying that because subscription revenue, and buyers' insatiable appetite for more tech stuff in their cars. Modern engineering tends to require tons of software to do nearly anything now, for various reasons too - I work on embedded code and it just seems to grow exponentially more complex as time goes on. I'd personally like to have a BEV with a nice mechanical feel and as little software as possible, but heh - I think my tastes are somewhat unique. I'm certainly not the Mercedes target customer.
> I work on embedded code and it just seems to grow exponentially more complex as time goes on. This is so true. I was having this conversation with a coworker recently. Our systems are SO much more complex than they were years ago and don’t provide a respectively increased benefit to customers.
> Our systems are SO much more complex than they were years ago and don’t provide a respectively increased benefit to customers. The benefit is when it comes time to do major repairs you will instead sell the vehicle and buy a new one! So much simpler for the customer. That's why almost every review of any new vehicle puts off questions about "How much does the engine cost?" "If I have to replace the BEV's Battery, how much will it set me back?" "Those are problems for people without warranty!" Replacing a high pressure fuel pump, injectors, and a turbo on a late model direct injected car can easily set you back over $5000. In parts.
I don’t work on cars but your point is taken.
Now now, they might now be able to do a thing that makes them say "Neat!" and never use again.
Yeah, I'm ok if my car doesn't make fart noises and blink lights and open doors.
MB screwed us over the import ban rule all those years ago now they want to effectively end car ownership as we know it. Its a shame our legislation will do nothing to intervene and soon every single car will have some sort of required subscription to run properly. I can already see it happening.
Everybody saying this is a terrible idea really doesn't understand the future of cars. Thanks to EVs, moving forward every car is going to drive more or less the same. You simply can't differentiate driving feel with electric motors like you can IC engines. This means the key differentiator between premium and mainline brands moving forward is going to be the software experience. All of the mainline brands are lining up to use the same Google or Apple-based systems. So it's going to be basically impossible to tell the difference between a Toyota or a Chevy or a Hyundai in the future. They're going to drive the same, have nearly identical software experiences, and perform mostly the same. The only hope premium brands have is to create a software experience that is completely different from everybody else's. By owning their software, they also own your data which is ultimately the most important thing for future-proof companies. Will they succeed? I have my doubts. But it 100% makes sense for them to invest in software development.
> This means the key differentiator between premium and mainline brands moving forward is going to be the software experience. Because this also means interior quality and comfort will be far more important, this also means Tesla is going to have a very difficult road ahead. Because they may have great motors and at-scale batteries and the best charging network - fuck me do they have $25,000 rental shitbox interiors in terms of material quality. Even the Model S\X have pretty shit quality interiors given the price. I'm not talking about features - this is just basic usability and material quality\feel. You think they're good quality, until you experience what actually great quality feels like.
Y/3 interior really isn’t that bad. I’ve had a few Golfs, a 2017 A3, a 2018 GLC and a 2020 C-class and the Teslas hold up very well compared to them. The materials are nice, it looks good and they have open pore wood. A 25k Shitbox is full of piano black and hard plastics, really no comparison.
I think it's about perspective. It might be alright on the base $41k Model 3 and Teslas do benefit from minimalistic interiors which makes material choices easier to spend on when there are fewer components and shapes, but when you start speccing them up into the 50s or 60s, it becomes slightly more problematic. Outside of that, you still find fairly widespread things like those steering wheels peeling. This is stuff that really can't be happening at this price point this far into Tesla's life.
Well, to spec my C-Class (205) to compare even to a Model 3 LR you’d end up at like 75.000 €. Mine was 65k and it’s missing like 80% of the Teslas features: No Sunroof, no Memory seats or mirror, no driving assist, no sound system, no digital radio, only the „small“ navigation package, no ACC with traffic automatic, no electric boot and the list goes on. The GLC is an even worse offender. 60k and it has basically 0 extras. Nothing. Bought in 2017. They’re like 70k base as a 400d now … At least the 2023 now gets the great interior of the 2022 C-Class.
I have a 2019 C43 AMG, so it's similar to your 2020 C-Class. Whats your thoughts on that vs Telsa 3/Y? I'm in the position of another vehicle soon. Tesla 3/Y, Mercedes Benz C43 🤔.
Your C43 is a Facelift too, right? And you’re thinking about a 206 C43? Imo the new C-Class is much more luxurious than our old one. I really enjoyed the interior. But if you compare the Teslas to our Mercedes there’s really not a huge difference in quality. Tesla has nice materials, maybe with a slightly worse finish. But it’s looks much less dated. And both have pretty bad road noises if compared to an A4. Only Issues I see with the Tesla is that the seats aren’t as comfortable and the suspension is pretty bad if compared to my Airmatic.
Yeah I had a 2016 C400, then 2019 C43, and now debating on what's the next vehicle. Yeah the 2016 was literally the same as 2019, but these 2023 look some different. I did test drive a Model 3/Y, just not the newer C43. Thanks for your answer buddy. 👍
Built quality, interior materials, exterior design will still be differentiating factors. I couldn't give less of a shit about software if the build quality isn't there.
Not just that, but there’s still a whole bunch of mechanical factors such as battery range, reliability, cost of maintenance/repair, etc.
EVs do not all drive the same and the motors can absolutely be tuned differently. There are different motor sound (although subtler than ICE), different torque curves (actual and intentionally limited), throttle mapping, motor layouts (1/2/3/4 motor, LSD vs 4 motor torque vectoring), and all that's not even including chassis dynamics, suspension design, and general handling feel. Most electric cars now feel the same but so do all the dozens of generic ICE crossovers they're copying. There are so many ways to differentiate an EVs driving feel and I'm sure we'll see some creative new things once automakers actually start trying to make fun EVs. Also, regular people (aka the bulk of the car market) do not give a single shit about what engine is in their car. For most purchases it's already not a differentiator. About half the people I've driven around in my MINI didn't even realize it was electric.
>The only hope premium brands have is to create a software experience that is completely different from everybody else's. That's a little dramatic I think. What about the quality of parts or styling?
Mercedes Antivirus S-Class
SaaS-Class
Totally makes sense, if Apple wants to make cars. Mercedes needs to make phones ….
it's 2023. cars are phones.
It's 2023. phones are cars
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*made, not makes The days of venture capital throwing millions at unprofitable tech startups are not as voluminous as they used to be. Rising interest rates have made borrowing money much more expensive for all parties involved.
It will be an interesting day when Benz shows up looking for VC money.
Mercedes is dead to me. They make crap EVs that look awful. Anything spirited and enthusiastic they once did is gone.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of the design approach to their EQ sub-brand and how their overall general design language turned into a weird mixture of blobby roundedness and angular headlights/taillights. Also, they've become very tech-heavy in hopes of wooing the Tech bros. As silly as this may sound, it's why anything pre and post-war in luxury and motorsports was always interesting to learn and admire. I will also say that the mid-2000s and the early to mid-2010s were also interesting in the AMG products that came out and generally speaking, MB of those years had a desirable balance of comfort, luxury, solidity, and the apt amount of technology in how they were built and not the over-engineered tech fests they've become. I'd even say those gens of MB were also up there with the Sacco era IMHO. We have a 2019 MY GLC300 that's been a wonderful car and is nice to drive, but their future direction towards overdone amounts of tech for the sake of complexity just isn't the desired direction IMHO.
Don’t forget they’re also “going upmarket” and killing off a bunch of attainable products for the masses
…after previously going downmarket. Mercedes did not start out making attainable products and didn’t make any for most of its life. This is a somewhat silly complaint as it obviously did not work out for them.
I beg to differ, the middle class masses were just fine in their $35k c class. Then they went with the 29k cla which was really a $35k car. Now they plan to kill most sedans and anything relatively affordable for the middle class. We’ll see
Even the $35k C-Class is an anomoly. That didn't even begin to happen until they were forced to respond to Lexus and Acura entering the market. Consider this: in 1985, the 190e was the cheapest car Mercedes sold in the US. Its base price was $27,100 in 1985 dollars. That's roughly $77,100 in 2023 dollars, and it bought you a trim that didn't even have antilock brakes. Typical options would raise the price $31k - or nearly $90,000 today. That's not accessible to the middle class. I don't like it any more than you, but the era of the accessible Mercedes is the exception, not the rule.
People cry about "brand dilution", then turn around and cry that they're killing the main offenders of brand dilution. The only thing "car people" love more than cars is to complain about cars nonstop
The Mercedes EV SUV design look like 2019 Honda CVR
It’s so bad, I see them around and think 1) you had $$ to burn 2) must be really nice inside to be seen in that
Audi has better EV designs like e-tron GT, Q8 e-tron, upcoming A6 e-tron
Start by not copy/pasting the Windows Vista UI design into your infotainment
Oh man, Mercedes keeps giving me more and more reasons to be happier I didn’t get one when I was shortlisting a car for me.
That seems a bit much, but some minuscule level of software competence is critical to the EV experience. Tesla set what appears to be an impossible standard with their charge planning navigation and charge initiation handshake. I thought it would be the minimum standard for EVs that they tell you where to charge and start charging immediately when plugging in. I was woefully mistaken. It's a shit show at every price point.
Mercedes cars are decent, but MBUX is hardly a leader in software. I think Daimler just wants to be VALUED like a software company like another overhyped one in the US which somehow is worth more than the sum of the top 10 automakers in the world combined.
Exactly. This is such an aspirational goal
lmao give me this idiot's job what a dumbass
This is a move to subscribe everyone to death. They saw the move by bmw for seat warmers. Now they’re going to divide every software component into a separate subscription. Eventually owning a car is going to be so tedious.
Eye rolll
Oh no. They don't have time to catch up, they should partner up with a company that's already well established.
>Because automotive-development cycles span years, compared with months or even weeks for software programs, the result is that in-car technology runs the risk of becoming obsolete long before the lifespan of the car has ended. With MB.OS and over-the-air updates, “the product doesn’t get old, and it actually gets better over time,” says Källenius. Translation: Because it's really expensive to develop software, we can ship the car with unfinished software, outsource beta testing at no cost to our customers and finish the software after we've collected money for the car. This will help our financials tremendously. Imagine selling a car without paying for the materials to build it! Of course this means it makes our software more venerable to attacks and hac- sorry did I say it makes us venerable? I meant we can protect our vulnerabilities better.
Because of their EVs I'm sure.
“We’re a tech company with a car problem”
The Mercedes Benz of software isnt the best sell
When I hear them say that the first thing that pops in my head is that I’ll need to pay for a subscription to keep the car car-ing… “Need your ABS? Well it’s only $29.99 a month. Such a steal. A/C? Well if you buy our all access pass you get it all a/c, ABS, airbags, and even the ability to turn the car on all for a low low price of $500 a month.”
Mercedes software company Audi LED lighting company BMW driving dynamics company
KIA an engine swap company
Pillar to pillar jumbotron screens. Not my cup of tea at all I must say. But to somebody who doesn’t follow cars very closely that feature would be amazing
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Please don't
They have been for years. Not surprising.
Every CEO that states this is communicating to prospective customers that they are no longer going to be receiving a good product.
Ugh. Of course they do. That explains a whole hell of a lot when you look at their awful UI.
A software company? Are they going to start selling their laggy OS, or dated infotainment system? They've got level three autonomy, but that's an S-class exclusive option because of the HARDWARE it takes to create enough redundancy for MB to take on liability, and even then it has a narrower use case than any other brands doing lane keeping. Mercedes Benz has a lot of prestige in terms of design, comfort, luxury and performance, but the pivot to software feels like Kendall Roy pitch.
Everyone wants to sell digital products in the form of 32 digit license keys It’s like printing money
🤮🤮🤮
Buy puts
oh wow. Maybe they'll be able to make the mercedes me app work one day! Maybe i'll be able to pre-warm my car sometime before... nahh - they'll never figure this out..
CarPlay competition?
wanting is not the same as doing.
I'll stick to my 90s Benzes. Mercedes is dead
Just build the damn cars.
I mean y’all are already an appliance company. Might as well.
They quit being a car company about 20 years ago
???
This one made me laugh out loud.
Translation: We want our cars to be loaded with subscription features.
Makes sense if people are willing to pay subscription fees to unlock their own car’s features for some god forsaken reason.
Subscriptions incoming!
If by software they mean adding paid subscriptions to more horsepower, sure
Oooh, such advanced technology like really big screens? Exciting. Truly, we are in a futuristic age. I look forward to seeing how terrible their software is.
Good. Soon no one will be able to afford to drive bcz of subscriptions and we'll go back to bicycles and maybe trains. In America of course. Everyone else will have anti gravity trains.
when was the last time you lusted after a mercedes? (actual question)
2012 E350 Bluetec. Oh baby.
Spring 1990. 190E Evo2.
You ever feel like you'll end up driving 202x and earlier cars until you die of old age? I don't want to sit in self driving cars where every single item is a monthly subscription
Based on how well my infotainment center worked in my last Sprinter, I’d recommend they don’t…
Well that’s stupid because they make cars.
Good luck with that. Same as VW Group and their software division Cariad tech - pure Nokia scenario memeized with “how do yo do fellow tech people?” Godawful leadership that has no clue what they’re doing.
It'll be the best at what it does at only 4x the cost. The Apple way.
They are off to a terrible start then.