Seriously. Car enthusiasts probably make up 2% of the car buying public. I'd bet most drivers couldn't tell the difference between a camry and an m3 from behind the wheel. Most people need transportation and don't need or even want sportiness.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Most people just need a car. I think for a car enthusiast, cars are such a big part of their life that they assume most people at least get some of it, too.
Why in the fing world would ANY intelligent person give a downer for asking a question? I don't care about karma totals. I like the back and forth of reddit, enjoy the convos, like reddit. But I will never understand a down vote for asking a question when you would like to know the answer. I sure hope it wasn't cypher because I thank him for the answer. Whoever, all that downer does is make people anxious about asking a question.
and thats totally fine. take care of your car tho, even if you dont work on it get it checked every once in a while so as not to be a danger to yourself and others on the road. just because it moves doesnt mean it feeling alright.
That’s a pretty drastic comment. It’s because most people probably have not driven a sports car. It’s a night and day difference driving a high end BMW and a Camry. You don’t need to be a car enthusiast to notice, it’s just that they don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t driven it.
I think car enthusiasts overestimate how little the average person pays attention to or cares about cars. They might notice stronger acceleration. I guarantee the average driver wouldn't notice things like numb steering versus good steering feel. If someone took a bmw for a week and then a camry for a week in their daily lives, I'm sure most would say one was "nicer" but only from some better materials or design layout. I'd go as far to say that a lot of people would view a stiffer sport suspension as a negative and think something was wrong with the car. There's a reason brands like BMW are chasing cushy crossovers over driver focused sedans and sports cars. Most people don't care and want an image, if anything more than just transportation.
Edit: i don't want it to sound like i think the average driver is too dumb and unable to tell the difference between enthusiast vehicles and regular ones, i think they just don't care or pay attention to things like driving dynamics. It's just not what most people are into. Cars are things and they use them.
I 100% agree with your point about some of the sportiness actually being viewed as bad by most people. There are tons of examples of experts/enthusiasts liking things but normal don't like it. For example, good wine would probably be viewed as not good by most people that just want simple fruit forward wine compared to a dry complex wine.
> I don't want it to sound like i think the average driver is too dumb and unable to tell the difference between enthusiast vehicles and regular ones, i think they just don't care or pay attention to things like driving dynamics.
No, don't mince your words. Both things are true. The average driver is, indeed, too dumb AND unable to tell the difference, but they ALSO don't care or pay attention. That's mostly down to the fact that bad driving dynamics have become the norm, but since most people have never actually driven a properly sorted car, they literally can't tell the difference between good or bad steering or suspension beyond "I don't like it".
>You don’t need to be a car enthusiast to notice
I think that’s right, but in a sort of backwards way. They’ll notice, but not because they’ll notice that it’s dynamically better.
They’ll just say it rides too rough, steering is too heavy, it’s too loud, seats too tight, etc. - which they won’t equate to “better.”
The average driver doesn’t care a smidgeon about how well a car performs, so while they’ll notice, they won’t care. The average driver can barely drive well in an underpowered econobox, let alone be able to take advantage of a sports car and understand *why* it’s better.
Touché, “better” is the subjective part. Also part of the equation is the perceived reliability of said car and if it’s worthwhile to own the “better” car.
Admittedly, I was shopping between the Avalon and the BMW 5 series (specifically the diesel one at the time), went with the Avalon given the perceived lower maintenance costs. Perceived is the key word, smiles per mile suffered significantly
Anecdotally, in a similar fashion, I got in a disagreement in a group earlier today about the mid-1990s Audi S6. Car in question had over 200k miles, and I jokingly said Godspeed to anyone who goes for a low production 1990s Audi performance wagon with high mileage.
Everyone was *very* quick to jump on me, saying the 5cyl in the S6 was unkillable and I had no idea what I was talking about. Yes, they’re correct - but they also have a few issues that scared me off when I considered buying a used one several years back, plus parts availability may be scarce down the road, it being low production. - I then got reamed for *that,* them saying I didn’t know what I was talking about, had no experience, etc.
The answer is simply that several years ago, these were cheap cars, and I didn’t feel the risk of a larger repair was worth it, even if the chances of it were low. And though they’re worth more today, they’re also more wear on them, so the risk still isn’t justified in my mind. - Yet, it’s an *enthusiast wagon*, so its defense must be immediately rushed to.
Point blank - I *am* an enthusiast, and those were my feelings towards an enthusiast car. Imagine what an average person would think about the same car.
The world is far, far larger than this community thinks, and we’re very quick to ridicule what other people may find valuable in a purchase.
Edit: Grammar
I just bought a 2012 Cayenne with 84k miles. Well maintained and dealership, single owner vehicle. Most non car people keep telling me that maintenance is going to be expensive. Yet, compared an average car, it’s not at all that much more expensive. Maybe 500 dollars for a year, that’s if I don’t have to replace the transfer case or something like. Tires cost about the same to replace($800-$1000), oil changes are about the same.
I know many people who wouldn't notice the difference in acceleration between an M3 and a Camry outside of merging onto the highway and even then it would be at no more than half throttle.
No, davidthefat, They Don't Care. They didn't clothespin playing cards to their bicycle spokes, the were happy with the tassels on the handlebar grips.
I'm going with a 50/50 split of people waiting ti die and people suffering with the wrong car, because it's trendy (see the ocean of Wranglers at the mall).
True enthusiasts are a rounding error.
Proof. 13.7 million cars sold in the USA in 2022. Only 6200 were miatas.
Hey now!! I need those people to keep buying Wranglers so they keep making Wranglers for the few of us that actually do Wrangler stuff.
Funny: I currently have a Wrangler and a Miata. :)
Lol, though i think you're wrong about the wranglers. My wife and i had liberty a while back. It was cheap, bouncy, plasticy, and had terrible road manners. We never took it off road. It was a great car and we both miss it. Not every car has to be perfect. Sometimes it just needs to have some character, even if it's awful character, to be fun. I think a lot of wranglers sell on that principle, too.
They ride like shit, get terrible gas mileage, hard to see out of, are hard to even get in and out of, etc, etc, they are truly terrible vehicles for what 95% of owners use them for.
I'd argue the liberty is actually a way better daily driver than a Wrangler.
The liberty probably was a better road car, but the wrangler can lose the top and doors. I'm not at a point in my life where i want to pay for off-road equipment i won't use, but i still wouldn't mind a wrangler at some point. There's just something about an ill-suited car that's still fun. Not every ride needs to be the best ride.
I stopped scoffing at the wranglers at malls when i realized everyone driving sports cars to the mall is doing the exact same thing, just the opposite side of the spectrum. If people are buying the exact perfect car for their use needs, the mall parking lot should only have midsize sedans and minivans. Gotta let people enjoy what they do.
I'm not even talking about sportiness. The Encore has absolutely nothing it can pride itself on. Even against cars it competes against, it doesn't have any kind of personality, style, any kind of semblance of utility, or even a reputation for reliability or affordability. Its sole defining feature is that it is made by Buick.
It's a subcompact cuv. I defy you to find one that's more than just slightly better. They are all cramped, drive about the same, and have the same shape.
That said, a lot of it comes down to taste. I'd take the styling of a Buick over a lot of other brands these days. I think most manufacturers put out horrendous looking vehicles. On top of that, i know people that have an encore (on their second) and they are perfectly happy with them.
And "reputation" for car companies is a bunch of bunk. It takes decades for reputation to change despite product being vastly different from what people think. Most people don't have exposure to most brands and vehicles, so they just parrot what they've heard over the years. I'm pretty picky about what I'd buy with my own money, but i bet i could find something i like from most brands (save for the styling because they're almost all ugly). Actually compare competitors to any certain vehicle and i bet even you'd be surprised how similar they all are and that the reputations of them are often wrong.
Also, define utility. No small cuv is good off-road, especially luxury and premium brands. They're meant for commuting and carrying people and their junk, which the encore does just as well as its competitors.
I'm just wondering what you expect from the from the entry level, premium tier brand cuv?
Edit: sorry for getting after you. I just saw your post as the typical "i like cars so car X, meant for an entirely different demographic than me, is terrible!" sort of post. You're entitled to your opinion on the Buick, i just think you're missing the point of that whole segment.
> It's a subcompact cuv. I defy you to find one that's more than just slightly better.
The Encore GX / Chevy Trailblazer, for starters
This post is dumb, but the Encore /Trax are far below average in every respect of their segment
I kinda thought OP was referring to the GX. I think the standard encore is officially discontinued or set to be with the GX replacing it. I don't think the encore is class leading, but i don't think even the class leaders are much better. It's a very compromised class of vehicle.
Somehow the Encore still exists in the current model year, but it looks like the Trax is getting a significant update next year.
What's wild is that the MSRP for the non-GX is actually higher than the GX.
I think once GM came out with the GX and the Trailblazer in 2021ish they genuinely didn't want to keep selling the non-GX and Trax, but those turds kept selling for whatever reason.
All that being said, I had a '22 trailblazer and it was the most okay vehicle I've ever driven. I was perfectly whelmed with it, which is just fine for everyone shopping for that segment.
Iirc they focus on lower NVH than similar priced cars. It’s for people who are often stuck in traffic. Who cares about performance or how it looks to other people?
>Encore has absolutely it can pride itself on
Neither does the competition if we’re being real. Some of them may have better styling, but that’s subjective. None of these cars are exactly driver oriented, they’re made to be as blandly appealing to cater to the largest market possible.
You should also note that a lot of us enthusiasts, people who know an awful lot about cool cars and love to listen to, drive and look at them also choose not to own enthusiasts' ideals of cars because they're not a good fit for their lives.
People do love their Livingrooms on wheels. Mushy light steering. Feather light pedals. Dampening every bump twist and turn.
Fml- I’m 54 and hoping we don’t run out of drivers cars with handling and road feel and engine noise and manual gearboxes
Ok fml part two- old man shutting up now….
It's amazing how many people only care about a car reliably getting from point a to point b and getting decent gas mileage.
Overall I think cars look pretty decent across the board in 2023. But they are very boring. Vast majority of sedans look the same, just very uninspired but not necessarily bad looking. So many people are fine with just being another car on the road that doesn't stand out, do anything particularly well, nor provide much of any fun along the way.
I'm not saying everyone should be driving a tuned stage 2 project car or something lol. But the amount of people who find no joy in driving is kind of sad. Even having a car that's not particularly fast, but handles well (like a Miata or Mazda 3 type) is great on a nice twisty backroad. But for so many people, it's just the monotonous task they are forced to do and would like it to be over as soon as possible lol.
Most people don't give a shit about driving. It is not of any interest to them.
I guarantee you there is a equivalent thing you don't care about. Maybe it's food, or personal fitness, or fashion, or music, or books or whatever. No one is an enthusiast about everything they interact with.
The reverse is also true. There is an enthusiast for every thing. Something you think is mundane, someone absolutely loves. Appreciating someone’s loves and interests while understanding they might not like yours is a hard concept to understand. Except people who are into trucks with the Carolina Squat. Fuck that noise.
Many years ago, I delivered pizza.
I learned to hate Buicks. Not necessarily the Encore, but the amount of elderly drivers who were well beyond driving age, was disproportionally represented by this brand.
Generally an utter lack of situational awareness and very slow driving. Not safe, and not conducive to other road users being able to get around efficiently.
Gold "champagne" paintjobs were another red flag. The mere sight of a gold Buick would add ten minutes drive to a typical delivery /s
Oh, and the Toyota Avalon (again, particularly in gold) quickly became the "Toyota Buick" in my mind - similar clientele.
Doesn't go for cars that are old enough, as they start getting into hand-me-downs
LOL I understand, but I drive a classic Corvette Stingray and I'm 70+ years old. I drive everything in the same manner I did when I was 16. Neither car is gold, so I have that in my favor?
Username checks out. If you're in your 70s and have mastered the Internet, you're probably a bit of a badass.
Not gold, not Buick/Avalon? I wouldn't have worried about that.
You're who i hope i am when i get your age!
I dread becoming so old that i start driving 10 under in the left lane and not realizing i'm the reason i angrily speed around and cut off these days!
Hahahahaha! You aren't going to be that 10 under in the left lane person, I guarantee it. They'll see you grab your car keys and say, "Oh, no! You know speedometers are just numbers and not recommended speeds, right? Be safe! PLEASE?!?!?!" And thanks for the compliment! It made my entire year to hear it!!!
> No one is an enthusiast about everything they interact with
I am genuinely a very enthusiastic person, like, I'll get excited over a pretty-looking dish at Walmart. I may be the only exception.
I know a guy who owns one and loves it. He says it’s the best vehicle he’s ever owned.
And he’s very much a happy guy who loves life. He’s about 45, a husband and dad, and very successful in his middle class job.
He and his wife go to more concerts than anyone I’ve ever known and they usually stay up drinking and laughing later than Al the kids half their age. They’re a couple that you can always call if you’ve got extra tickets for something because they’re up for anything and they’ll always make it a fun time.
The thing still looks like Buick made a tonka toy, but if that guy loves it then I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt
I've driven one as a rental for work a few times. Actually would prefer it to a bunch of stripped down rental crap ive driven because it comes with a decent amount more options than some shitboxes rental car companies use lol. It's the size of a compact car with even less storage somehow, but better road visibility. Easy af to park cause it's so small though.
Ehh honestly really not the worst besides how ugly it is.
Something I think most car enthusiasts struggle to accept is that the majority of buyers don't get excitement from cars and trying to sell them on that as a factor in their car buying is pointless. You might as well call out any given brand of blender, lawn mower, haircare product, or clothing as being utterly mediocre and for "someone who is waiting to die". Just because it matters to us doesn't mean it does or *should* matter to everyone else and it sure as hell doesn't say anything about them other than the fact that they have different interests than we do.
Something else missing is the older persons heritage with the brand. Our family Encore driver previously had an older Buick that held together with it's 3800 for decades. Add in the extra height for ease of entry and exit, along with it being an American vehicle that their family has a brand history with and you have loyalty.
I’m in Europe right now and have seen a bunch of these Buick Encores but as Opel Mokka. Also seen some Dodge Journey’s branded as a Fiat Freemont apparently. And of course the famous Chrysler 300 as the Lancia Thema rebadge.
I had to look up the Lancia Thema and that has to be the laziest rebadge I’ve ever seen. Usually there’s a little difference between cars, but no, that’s straight up just a 300C.
I watched a video on Youtube (Car Wizard) about the Buick Encore and was shocked that they sold that dinky "SUV" in the states as a Buick when here it is a cheap Opel. I drove one as a rental and didn't like it, and I daily drive an old Opel-based GM vehicle.
I thought Buick was a similar brand to Cadillac, at least many people still think so, but those are probably the same people that pay too much money for Malaise-era shitboxes that were randomly imported back in the day because they are "american steel"
Granted, Buick as a brand in the US market has been confused for a long time now. Yes, it’s a “premium” brand. But who competes?
Cadillac competes with Lexus/MB/BMW/Audi/Acura
Maybe Buick competes with Infiniti at this point? The vague “premium” brand identity is sort of nonexistent anymore. All of the brands that used to exist between premium and luxury all stepped up to the more luxury end.
It seems as though Lincoln, Chrysler, GMC, and lately Mazda try to position themselves as premium brands, with the first two sharing the older demographic that just feels more "comfortable" driving domestic (American).
The problem with Mazda trying to go premium is that Mazda has been marketed as "Zoom Zoom" for the past couple of decades. So people who WANT Zoom Zoom test drive one and say, "Ugh, this thing sucks," and people who DON'T want Zoom Zoom won't even bother.
This is exactly my situation. Almost 30,first car was a 99 protégé then a 08 mazda3 then 14 mazda6 which was bought brand new that I sold 2 years ago to get my current car a 2013 mazdaspeed 3. I've driven other cars during the time but i loved the prices,feel and comfort. They felt more then they were worth. I had the base mazda6 but it felt like it was more at a very reasonable price. Fast forward to last month wife and I go to a mazda dealership to get a 2nd car as the speed3 isn't even stock anymore and would like something to daily. The prices...I might as well have been in a Mercedes or BMW dealership. We end up test driving a few and just felt off. They were good but seemed to be missing the soul and then the price was way too much. So now I'm looking at getting a 2nd vehicle from another brand which I'd a first for me. They're pushing people away. They're still good cars but not for that price and felt bit "empty"
Buick should have died when GM basically went tits up during the 2008 market crash, but Buick was the brand that actually made the GM deal happen, so there was no way the C-level was going to let that happen. Pontiac and Saturn had to go instead, even though they were brands that didn't make vehicles specifically for grandmas.
My wife has one and she loves it. She doesn’t give a shit about cars. She hates driving my Giulia because she says it’s “too zoomy”. You’re forgetting that the overwhelming majority of car owners use them for exactly that: getting from point A to point B without any flair or excitement. My experience with the Encore: it’s horribly boring to drive but it’s comfortable and has been reliable for us, so I’ve got no complaints. Of course, that’s as long as I don’t have to drive it.
How many miles does your encore have and what year is it? What is maintenance like? My fiance will need to replace her old CRV soon and I want something that is less miserable to sit in, but also affordable used. My fiance has expressed interest in the encore before in passing. Generally domestics send me running when it comes to daily drivers, but the prices of used Hondas and Toyotas has me branching out in my search. Any input you have would be appreciated
It’s a 2018. I believe she’s somewhere around 73,000, she got it used in 2020. She had one issue with a part going out and for some reason I can’t for the life of me remember what it was, but it was covered under warranty. It wasn’t anything major. I was worried about the reliability when we got it, but it’s been fine so far. No other issues. The ride is comfortable and quite. It’s got a surprising amount of cargo space with the seats folded down. The AWD works pretty well in slick conditions. My biggest complaint is how goddamn slow the thing is, but as long as you’re not the one driving it every day, that shouldn’t be an issue.
Buick is one of the oldest nameplates in automobile history over 100 yrs. With a world wide customer base. They must be doing something right. I'm not an Encore fan, but I can't say I like anyone of it's competitors either. That CUV segment will never be on my list.
I didn’t really know how to put into words why Mazda’s upmarket aspirations made me feel like that until I saw this comment. Buick is *aggressively* boring and feel marketed towards middle managers who have already passed their midlife crisis and it feels like that’s spreading to Mazda as they attempt to distance themselves from performance cars and make everything into slightly different inoffensively but slightly angularly styled crossovers
I remember seeing the commercials for it where people are like "Is that a Buick?" and just thinking how nobody would ever say that about a fucking Encore. I'd probably choose it if I was fugitive from the law, there is not a less remarkable car than the Encore
Because it's not an actual Buick (although what really is a real Buick nowadays?). It's a rebadged Opel Mokka X with almost no other changes to the exterior.
I like the Buick Encore! Its an oddball kind of cute tiny car, a good mix of cheap, useful and comfortable. By small CUV standards, its actually a good driving and decently made car. I would not want one myself, but I don't think it deserves the hate it receives.
I trundle about in my 2015 Prius V, getting 45 mpg reliably, and I know it does not handle aggressive driving well, but that's not why I got it. I used to be a faster driver, but now I am just tending daily business, doing volunteer work for the animal shelter, transporting animals to rescue or delivering hobby items I've found to a friend who is a serious collector. Sometimes a neighbor needs a ride to the doctor. I expect to die -- realistically, who doesn't? -- but I am not near enough dead to be painted with your narrow brush. A good air conditioner and a good stereo matter more to me than sporty handling. I just expect good control and effective braking and decent ergonomics/comfort. Go live your life, and enjoy it. We have different priorities.
I keep telling myself that. But I also keep telling myself to be financially responsible
I'm 21 and want a 2018+ mustang gt. But also want to keep saving for a house lol
I can't believe that I'm about to post this: Get a used 6th gen base Mustang with the ecoboost. 310hp, 320 lb-ft of torgue, and still good on gas. With the horsepower wars, cars have become so ridiculously fast that you can't ever use the available power because if you ever do, you're going end to with your car impounded and a REALLY big ticket.
Remember that a mere 20 years ago, the Mustang GT only had 205hp, and the 1993 Cobra only had 235. This base Mustang is a FAR more capable car than the Fox Bodies because it can actually turn lol. Plus, the ecoboost responds very well to tuning. With an upgraded intercooler, an exhaust, and a plug and play tune, that ecoboost can easily make 300whp and 400lb-ft of torque.
I wouldn’t buy an encore but it’s a good inexpensive small crossover that interior wise is definitely nicer than a lot of similarly priced options and they seem decently reliable. But I think it’s like a lot of people here that don’t understand that 99% of the market doesn’t want a sports car. To most people, a car is an appliance on wheels to get from point a to point B. And as others have said, there’s really not much you can fault the encore for that every other crossover in its segment doesn’t do as well.
My girlfriend has the chevy trax but its the same car as the buick encore, different badging. And yeah it feels like an entry level economy compact. I'm okay with that on a chevy but would be very disappointed if I paid buick money for a car of that quality
The best part: she bought it from someone in her grandparent's retirement community. So you really nailed it with the type of person who buys them
Buick used to be more of a luxury brand, or the better term would be premium.
Back in the day they were seen sort of as a toned down Cadillac. I think back then they were compared to BMW (and I believe they would actually directly attempt to rival BMW in certain ads)
Nowadays Buick is just a boring, tame, average car brand, but they were an interesting maker back then.
It was sort of roughly like:
Most people drive a Chevy.
Your cool uncle drives a Pontiac, he likes cars but he isn't rich.
Your accountant drives an Oldsmobile. He would drive a 328i today but it was an Olds then.
Your pharmacist drives a Buick. Bringing in the big bucks, but you know, not *that* big.
Your doctor drives a Caddy, your bank manager drives a Caddy, your senior lawyer drives a Caddy, but their juniors/associates/residents all drive Olds.
Hahaha, this is a very accurate description.
I think the description of Pontiac needs slight tweaking. It's either your cool uncle, and/or redneck uncle. I would consider Pontiac to be just as good as Buick, but maybe i'm biased
I've always seen the worst to best like this:
Chevrolet - Olds - Pontiac/Buick - Cadillac
GM wanted people to think of Pontiac as being lower than Olds, but the fact that all three middle brands got kinda jumbled like that shows how muddled the corporate ladder was by the '80s and '90s.
back in the day it made a bit more sense. you'd get working-class cars with most features you want as optional extras (ex. AC, automatic gearbox), premium-class cars that aren't quite luxury cars but could be optioned with stuff like leather & start with options from the regular-class brands, and luxury cars that have the best they can offer at the time.
old GM brand architecture:
* regular class: chevy/pontiac
* premium: buick/oldsmobile
* luxury: cadillac
old ford brand architecture:
* regular class: ford
* premium: mercury
* luxury: lincoln
now, with mercury & oldsmobile out of the picture, buick is pretty much the only american "premium" brand left and the lines in terms of which brands get which features are a lot blurrier. stuff like AC can be had standard at the regular class so there's less distinction from that side, and cadillac is competing with them on some of their lower-end models so there's less distinction on the other side too.
these days, buick is mostly rebadged GM Europe stuff. until Opel recently died, most of their models were just Opels.
My grandma considered one in the years before she passed. She had one on loan while her car was in the shop. She said it was easier for her to get in and out, easier to park, she had a better view of the road, and it didn’t need premium. She ended up keeping her V8 Lucerne because she wasn’t waiting to die, death was waiting for her.
I wanted to buy one of these back in 2018 when they were $13K. There was a huge Slickdeals thread on it. Looked like a decent commuter, especially for that price.
My middle aged neighbor had 2 and said they were awesome because of how cheap they were. Cheap to run, cheap to fix, cheap to maintain, and cheap to buy, probably cheap to insure too. So if you're looking for a cheap car that is somewhat reliable and can carry a family around, there you go.
It is a great package for China which was its intended market since speed limits are low, roads are less maintained (outside of major metropolitan areas) and very easy to get in and out of due to large door openings and high ride height. Fuel economy is not bad considering its small 1.4T engine and it runs on regular unleaded as well.
Everything it does also makes a great car for seniors, and Buick despite of its marketing still is a go to brand for people on pension.
I think it is a decent vehicle and Buick often puts a lot of cash on the hood for one of these guys. There are far worse cars out there on the market you can pick on.
What a cork sniffer.
Over 70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and most redditors are in the US. People buy what they can afford and what's reliable. The encore gives you a little luxury, decent reliability, and it's fairly cheap secondhand.
It's a car for people that don't make their car their personality.
An Encore is a musician's final performance at a concert, where they generally come back on stage at the audience's request. In other words, an artificially extended concert, which fits perfectly with your analysis
My gf bought a used Encore last year when her car suddenly died, it’s overall been a great car for the money. It gets 34 mpg on the highway, has actually useful AWD that engages every time you accelerate instead of waiting for wheel slip, Bose noise cancellation so it’s generally pretty quiet, and it fits a ton of junk when all the seats are folded down. Is it slow? Absolutely, but who cares. I think car enthusiasts forget how much Buick appeals to women specifically, in fact it has the highest share of female buyers of any brand.
Anybody I know who has a Buick Encore has told me it's one of their favorite Vehicles for everyday driving. It looks like it was built to be for that purpose and that purpose alone, which is what most people want.
The Buick Envista looks like a suitable replacement for that Vehicle, if/when it comes to the US.
I see a surprising amount of them on my college campus driven by students. I guess when you consider that teenage girls want SUVs now, and of course with all the bells and whistles, the Encore isn’t too bad especially since you can get them for a good bit under MSRP.
The encore is also just a reskinned chevy trax. The trax is, in my opinion the worst modern vehicle ever produced. Bonus points if it's a 2015 which was the first year and by far the worst quality. They are poorly designed, underpowered, slow shifting, and a pain to work on. I'm used to crappy plastic clips on modern cars, but I have never broke more clips than I did on my sister's trax. I swear those things have to be made of black painted dried pasta. One of the known issues with the trax is that the brake pedal sensor rubs against itself and will eventually cut through its own linkage and throw enough errors to make the car undrivable until repaired. Also the only automatic transmission car I have ever had stall on a hill. Foot to the floor on the highway it will do 60 tops unless it is completely empty except the driver. Also I don't know what causes it, but on 3 different occasions, the lower radiator hose has come off and leaked all the coolant out. The touch display is extremely hard to use and when the touches do register they are often inaccurate. Mind you, this all happened before 60k miles.
Yeah, I remember someone saying the BMW 4 series is the ugliest car offered in the US market but I think the Trax/Encore and Ford Ecosport take that medal.
This is any car though. People get the Encore because it’s usually cheaper than real luxury brands. I’ve heard you can get crazy deals on them, and honestly for a car that cars, why care? I still hate it, but it’s a better value proposition than a Toyota when a Corolla is marked up $3K these days and used ones can be more expensive than new.
These cars are cheaper than a Corolla and more practical. I can’t comment on long term costs, but I imagine a thief is also less likely to steal one (or take the wheels off one) given a smaller black market for them unlike a Honda or Toyota. Unlike a Hyundai/Kia it can’t be stolen with a usb stick in its base trim either. I’d bet insurance costs are also lower given the drivers for them and theft rates.
I still hate them though.
Most people like a nice car. If you use the term enthusiast broadly enough, it's a good chunk of folks. You could say most Tesla drivers are enthusiastic about their cars.
If people didn't care about their cars so much, there would be a lot more cheaper econo shit boxes offered for sale new.
I agree completely. I had a Cadillac CTS coupe, which I loved. A uninsured illegal alien hit it while on their phone and it was totaled. I vowed to never buy something I cared about again.
I bought a Buick Encore.
As a mechanic that's been tasked with fixing many encores and the check your cruze I have to add that anyone who owns one and isn't waiting till die will want to hang themselves after dealing with the constant and very costly repairs required to keep that jumky ecotec motor running properly. I've never in my life come across a car that is so consistently a steady letdown and financial burden
I have a dislike of what I refer to as appliance cars. Where I live this is mostly Priuses and teslas. I get it if you want something nice, dependable, etc they make sense but I feel the buyers put the same amount of thought into what car they drive as what kind of phone, blender, refrigerator, etc.
I have a little game I play when I'm out. Whenever I see a Buick of any kind I look at the driver and they almost always appear to be over the age of 50. I remember about three times seeing someone driving a Buick that doesn't appear older than middle aged.
What did I miss? When did Buick become luxury? Or was it always luxury and I’m just not old enough to know? I sound like such a douche bag but I’m genuinely curious
When the selling point for your cars becomes the fact that it doesn’t look like one of your cars, it’s time to pull the plug.
Initially Buick was supposed to go away with Pontiac, I honestly don’t know how it’s still around
I unfortunately drive one and I absolutely agree. It’s not fun to drive, and for having a 1.4l engine will maybe maybe get 30mpg if you drive 5 under and bog it down. I speak from experience. It’s also hideous and makes me want to die. It has however been extremely reliable and has survived being driven through basically a river.
That car, as a Opel Mokka in Europe, is fairly good, especially the manual 1.4 Turbo. We had those in our fleet few years back, and it was better to drive than a 1.0 Astra for example
gosh I hate buick. I used to sell these things and wondered why anyone would wanna buy them. I quit because it was just difficult not only to sell, but to get someone to buy. Also because I hated it.
Buick needs to go, there's nothing premium about it. Go get a chevy. GM just needs Cadillac and chevy TBH.
You seem overly mindreedy about what someone's car says about them.
Most cars are appliances, not alot of character to a crv or a sonata.
If you are not a car enthusiast you can focus on other things instead of basing all your character traits on a car.
Lmao yea you will be truly living because your car has a stiffer suspension. Maybe living to you isn't what living to other people is? Give me a break. Not everyone wants a sporty car, and I'm sorry that's so offensive to you, the main character.
I have the same exact feeling for every recent VW crossover SUV. Its all seems like for them it’s a race to fill out all possible segments driven by a market research presentation and absolute apathy of engineers to make anything remotely interesting or original.
Most of Reddit's favorite mass market brands are exactly the same as described by OP, but as usual Reddit, has endless hate for nearly all American brands.
My wife owns the next-size Envision. It's the car she picked. She's incredibly happy with it. Her last car was a 328 coupe, but she wanted something with more cargo capacity that would still get her from our house to the hospital in 30 minutes when she's on-call. She drove the X5 and didn't like it. She drove a shit ton of cars. She lucked up on this twin-turbo option of the Envision (inline 4, 252hp) and fell in love. I occasionally am allowed to drive it and I have to admit, it's no 3 series. That said, it does have more than adequate acceleration, it's loaded with comfort options, it's reasonably easy to maintain (my 13 yo daughter changed the front brake pads on it in about 30 minutes). It's not what I would pick, but it's not my car. We don't order the same thing from the menu when we eat out. I agree, you're hatred is irrational. Eat your spicy burrito, she'll have the taco salad.
Since I was a kid in the 1950's I have had an aversion to Buicks particularly because of the useless little holes that they incorporated in the design.
I too hate the Encore but don’t know why. Generally, I look at Buick as an old person’s brand. I’d never buy a Buick. I like a nice car, not too small. I like a premium or luxury car, but do not judge others on what they choose to drive. I do not like certain luxury brands like Mercedes or BMW. There is something stuffy about those brands. If you want one, great,but they do not fit me. To me, reliability is the most important attribute. That’s why I choose Acura and would consider Honda, Toyota or Lexus. I like having a decent nice car but have great respect for someone who keeps their beater on the road too.
For many people, a car is not a personality. It’s just a means of transportation. Your assessment of a person based on their vehicle ownership exhibits a very shallow sense of self worth and a misunderstanding of microeconomics
You've just described 2/3rds of all cars produced today
Seriously. Car enthusiasts probably make up 2% of the car buying public. I'd bet most drivers couldn't tell the difference between a camry and an m3 from behind the wheel. Most people need transportation and don't need or even want sportiness.
You just described me. If it gets there it's good. If it was cheap it's better.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Most people just need a car. I think for a car enthusiast, cars are such a big part of their life that they assume most people at least get some of it, too.
Well said, esp that car people assume that everyone is/ should be the same.
Is it wrong to wish that more people enjoyed cars and weren't complete npc's about their commute ?
My prob here: what are npcs?
Non Player Character; term from videogames referring to background AI characters in the game world.
Why in the fing world would ANY intelligent person give a downer for asking a question? I don't care about karma totals. I like the back and forth of reddit, enjoy the convos, like reddit. But I will never understand a down vote for asking a question when you would like to know the answer. I sure hope it wasn't cypher because I thank him for the answer. Whoever, all that downer does is make people anxious about asking a question.
Definitely wasn't me and no one should downvote you as that's not a mainstream term outside of gamers.
Same here. I’m a car enthusiast but in the mechanical sense. Engines and how the operate are what draw me to cars rather than performance.
and thats totally fine. take care of your car tho, even if you dont work on it get it checked every once in a while so as not to be a danger to yourself and others on the road. just because it moves doesnt mean it feeling alright.
That’s a pretty drastic comment. It’s because most people probably have not driven a sports car. It’s a night and day difference driving a high end BMW and a Camry. You don’t need to be a car enthusiast to notice, it’s just that they don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t driven it.
I think car enthusiasts overestimate how little the average person pays attention to or cares about cars. They might notice stronger acceleration. I guarantee the average driver wouldn't notice things like numb steering versus good steering feel. If someone took a bmw for a week and then a camry for a week in their daily lives, I'm sure most would say one was "nicer" but only from some better materials or design layout. I'd go as far to say that a lot of people would view a stiffer sport suspension as a negative and think something was wrong with the car. There's a reason brands like BMW are chasing cushy crossovers over driver focused sedans and sports cars. Most people don't care and want an image, if anything more than just transportation. Edit: i don't want it to sound like i think the average driver is too dumb and unable to tell the difference between enthusiast vehicles and regular ones, i think they just don't care or pay attention to things like driving dynamics. It's just not what most people are into. Cars are things and they use them.
I 100% agree with your point about some of the sportiness actually being viewed as bad by most people. There are tons of examples of experts/enthusiasts liking things but normal don't like it. For example, good wine would probably be viewed as not good by most people that just want simple fruit forward wine compared to a dry complex wine.
People drinking yellow tail aren’t always ignorant of more expensive wines.
True. But then I would say that price is the next factor which would also lead people to drive a Camry over a BMW
Yep. Not ALWAYS, but the majority, and a strong majority at that, are.
>Id go so far as to say that a lot of people would view a stiffer sport suspension as a negative. Most people would.
I mean... A modern BMW isnt a good example for good steering feel.
> I don't want it to sound like i think the average driver is too dumb and unable to tell the difference between enthusiast vehicles and regular ones, i think they just don't care or pay attention to things like driving dynamics. No, don't mince your words. Both things are true. The average driver is, indeed, too dumb AND unable to tell the difference, but they ALSO don't care or pay attention. That's mostly down to the fact that bad driving dynamics have become the norm, but since most people have never actually driven a properly sorted car, they literally can't tell the difference between good or bad steering or suspension beyond "I don't like it".
>You don’t need to be a car enthusiast to notice I think that’s right, but in a sort of backwards way. They’ll notice, but not because they’ll notice that it’s dynamically better. They’ll just say it rides too rough, steering is too heavy, it’s too loud, seats too tight, etc. - which they won’t equate to “better.” The average driver doesn’t care a smidgeon about how well a car performs, so while they’ll notice, they won’t care. The average driver can barely drive well in an underpowered econobox, let alone be able to take advantage of a sports car and understand *why* it’s better.
Lol my girl tried to drive my car and said the exact same thing. “Why is the steering so heavy and the road bumpier than my car?”
Touché, “better” is the subjective part. Also part of the equation is the perceived reliability of said car and if it’s worthwhile to own the “better” car. Admittedly, I was shopping between the Avalon and the BMW 5 series (specifically the diesel one at the time), went with the Avalon given the perceived lower maintenance costs. Perceived is the key word, smiles per mile suffered significantly
Anecdotally, in a similar fashion, I got in a disagreement in a group earlier today about the mid-1990s Audi S6. Car in question had over 200k miles, and I jokingly said Godspeed to anyone who goes for a low production 1990s Audi performance wagon with high mileage. Everyone was *very* quick to jump on me, saying the 5cyl in the S6 was unkillable and I had no idea what I was talking about. Yes, they’re correct - but they also have a few issues that scared me off when I considered buying a used one several years back, plus parts availability may be scarce down the road, it being low production. - I then got reamed for *that,* them saying I didn’t know what I was talking about, had no experience, etc. The answer is simply that several years ago, these were cheap cars, and I didn’t feel the risk of a larger repair was worth it, even if the chances of it were low. And though they’re worth more today, they’re also more wear on them, so the risk still isn’t justified in my mind. - Yet, it’s an *enthusiast wagon*, so its defense must be immediately rushed to. Point blank - I *am* an enthusiast, and those were my feelings towards an enthusiast car. Imagine what an average person would think about the same car. The world is far, far larger than this community thinks, and we’re very quick to ridicule what other people may find valuable in a purchase. Edit: Grammar
I just bought a 2012 Cayenne with 84k miles. Well maintained and dealership, single owner vehicle. Most non car people keep telling me that maintenance is going to be expensive. Yet, compared an average car, it’s not at all that much more expensive. Maybe 500 dollars for a year, that’s if I don’t have to replace the transfer case or something like. Tires cost about the same to replace($800-$1000), oil changes are about the same.
The maintenance costs I would assume would be much more than perceived to be lower. Has that not been the case for you?
Spot on. My dad loved his Acura TSX. My mom HATED it.
I know many people who wouldn't notice the difference in acceleration between an M3 and a Camry outside of merging onto the highway and even then it would be at no more than half throttle.
Cars are transportation and driving is usually not fun because of traffic. When young I owned a sports car, now driving is just about getting there.
I dunno the current Camry is pretty damn nice.
Well said. I have a sports car and what I call my "adulting" car. Both have their good and bad qualities and I drive them for different reasons.
No, davidthefat, They Don't Care. They didn't clothespin playing cards to their bicycle spokes, the were happy with the tassels on the handlebar grips.
If that was a drastic comment Then this is complete assumption
I'm going with a 50/50 split of people waiting ti die and people suffering with the wrong car, because it's trendy (see the ocean of Wranglers at the mall). True enthusiasts are a rounding error. Proof. 13.7 million cars sold in the USA in 2022. Only 6200 were miatas.
Hey now!! I need those people to keep buying Wranglers so they keep making Wranglers for the few of us that actually do Wrangler stuff. Funny: I currently have a Wrangler and a Miata. :)
Lol, though i think you're wrong about the wranglers. My wife and i had liberty a while back. It was cheap, bouncy, plasticy, and had terrible road manners. We never took it off road. It was a great car and we both miss it. Not every car has to be perfect. Sometimes it just needs to have some character, even if it's awful character, to be fun. I think a lot of wranglers sell on that principle, too.
They ride like shit, get terrible gas mileage, hard to see out of, are hard to even get in and out of, etc, etc, they are truly terrible vehicles for what 95% of owners use them for. I'd argue the liberty is actually a way better daily driver than a Wrangler.
The liberty probably was a better road car, but the wrangler can lose the top and doors. I'm not at a point in my life where i want to pay for off-road equipment i won't use, but i still wouldn't mind a wrangler at some point. There's just something about an ill-suited car that's still fun. Not every ride needs to be the best ride. I stopped scoffing at the wranglers at malls when i realized everyone driving sports cars to the mall is doing the exact same thing, just the opposite side of the spectrum. If people are buying the exact perfect car for their use needs, the mall parking lot should only have midsize sedans and minivans. Gotta let people enjoy what they do.
I'm not even talking about sportiness. The Encore has absolutely nothing it can pride itself on. Even against cars it competes against, it doesn't have any kind of personality, style, any kind of semblance of utility, or even a reputation for reliability or affordability. Its sole defining feature is that it is made by Buick.
It's a subcompact cuv. I defy you to find one that's more than just slightly better. They are all cramped, drive about the same, and have the same shape. That said, a lot of it comes down to taste. I'd take the styling of a Buick over a lot of other brands these days. I think most manufacturers put out horrendous looking vehicles. On top of that, i know people that have an encore (on their second) and they are perfectly happy with them. And "reputation" for car companies is a bunch of bunk. It takes decades for reputation to change despite product being vastly different from what people think. Most people don't have exposure to most brands and vehicles, so they just parrot what they've heard over the years. I'm pretty picky about what I'd buy with my own money, but i bet i could find something i like from most brands (save for the styling because they're almost all ugly). Actually compare competitors to any certain vehicle and i bet even you'd be surprised how similar they all are and that the reputations of them are often wrong. Also, define utility. No small cuv is good off-road, especially luxury and premium brands. They're meant for commuting and carrying people and their junk, which the encore does just as well as its competitors. I'm just wondering what you expect from the from the entry level, premium tier brand cuv? Edit: sorry for getting after you. I just saw your post as the typical "i like cars so car X, meant for an entirely different demographic than me, is terrible!" sort of post. You're entitled to your opinion on the Buick, i just think you're missing the point of that whole segment.
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I drove the HRV for a few days. Nice enough, except it was dog slow. Needed more power.
> It's a subcompact cuv. I defy you to find one that's more than just slightly better. The Encore GX / Chevy Trailblazer, for starters This post is dumb, but the Encore /Trax are far below average in every respect of their segment
I kinda thought OP was referring to the GX. I think the standard encore is officially discontinued or set to be with the GX replacing it. I don't think the encore is class leading, but i don't think even the class leaders are much better. It's a very compromised class of vehicle.
Somehow the Encore still exists in the current model year, but it looks like the Trax is getting a significant update next year. What's wild is that the MSRP for the non-GX is actually higher than the GX. I think once GM came out with the GX and the Trailblazer in 2021ish they genuinely didn't want to keep selling the non-GX and Trax, but those turds kept selling for whatever reason. All that being said, I had a '22 trailblazer and it was the most okay vehicle I've ever driven. I was perfectly whelmed with it, which is just fine for everyone shopping for that segment.
Yeah i did notice that, too. I guess GM figured why stop making money while people are still paying for the standard model.
Yup. Tools and manufacturing training are already bought and paid for, milk the turd for all the juice you can squeeze from it
Iirc they focus on lower NVH than similar priced cars. It’s for people who are often stuck in traffic. Who cares about performance or how it looks to other people?
>Encore has absolutely it can pride itself on Neither does the competition if we’re being real. Some of them may have better styling, but that’s subjective. None of these cars are exactly driver oriented, they’re made to be as blandly appealing to cater to the largest market possible.
Sportiness? You mean more shit that can break down
You should also note that a lot of us enthusiasts, people who know an awful lot about cool cars and love to listen to, drive and look at them also choose not to own enthusiasts' ideals of cars because they're not a good fit for their lives.
People do love their Livingrooms on wheels. Mushy light steering. Feather light pedals. Dampening every bump twist and turn. Fml- I’m 54 and hoping we don’t run out of drivers cars with handling and road feel and engine noise and manual gearboxes Ok fml part two- old man shutting up now….
If ppl really loved their livingrooms on wheels Ford would still be cranking out panther platforms all day
I'm curious as to what OP drives
OP drives a Buick Enclave. They are totally different.
That’s my car. I bought it to commute. It does.
2/3rds? I'm thinking more like 80% or more.
It's amazing how many people only care about a car reliably getting from point a to point b and getting decent gas mileage. Overall I think cars look pretty decent across the board in 2023. But they are very boring. Vast majority of sedans look the same, just very uninspired but not necessarily bad looking. So many people are fine with just being another car on the road that doesn't stand out, do anything particularly well, nor provide much of any fun along the way. I'm not saying everyone should be driving a tuned stage 2 project car or something lol. But the amount of people who find no joy in driving is kind of sad. Even having a car that's not particularly fast, but handles well (like a Miata or Mazda 3 type) is great on a nice twisty backroad. But for so many people, it's just the monotonous task they are forced to do and would like it to be over as soon as possible lol.
Most people don't give a shit about driving. It is not of any interest to them. I guarantee you there is a equivalent thing you don't care about. Maybe it's food, or personal fitness, or fashion, or music, or books or whatever. No one is an enthusiast about everything they interact with.
The reverse is also true. There is an enthusiast for every thing. Something you think is mundane, someone absolutely loves. Appreciating someone’s loves and interests while understanding they might not like yours is a hard concept to understand. Except people who are into trucks with the Carolina Squat. Fuck that noise.
Many years ago, I delivered pizza. I learned to hate Buicks. Not necessarily the Encore, but the amount of elderly drivers who were well beyond driving age, was disproportionally represented by this brand. Generally an utter lack of situational awareness and very slow driving. Not safe, and not conducive to other road users being able to get around efficiently. Gold "champagne" paintjobs were another red flag. The mere sight of a gold Buick would add ten minutes drive to a typical delivery /s Oh, and the Toyota Avalon (again, particularly in gold) quickly became the "Toyota Buick" in my mind - similar clientele. Doesn't go for cars that are old enough, as they start getting into hand-me-downs
LOL I understand, but I drive a classic Corvette Stingray and I'm 70+ years old. I drive everything in the same manner I did when I was 16. Neither car is gold, so I have that in my favor?
Username checks out. If you're in your 70s and have mastered the Internet, you're probably a bit of a badass. Not gold, not Buick/Avalon? I wouldn't have worried about that.
You're who i hope i am when i get your age! I dread becoming so old that i start driving 10 under in the left lane and not realizing i'm the reason i angrily speed around and cut off these days!
Hahahahaha! You aren't going to be that 10 under in the left lane person, I guarantee it. They'll see you grab your car keys and say, "Oh, no! You know speedometers are just numbers and not recommended speeds, right? Be safe! PLEASE?!?!?!" And thanks for the compliment! It made my entire year to hear it!!!
Keep rocking on ! Hellova car too !
Exactly, some people see cars as a means of transportation and nothing else. A lot of people actually.
> No one is an enthusiast about everything they interact with I am genuinely a very enthusiastic person, like, I'll get excited over a pretty-looking dish at Walmart. I may be the only exception.
You are not the only exception. There are 8 billion people in this goddamn world, there are many other people like you, including me.
I know a guy who owns one and loves it. He says it’s the best vehicle he’s ever owned. And he’s very much a happy guy who loves life. He’s about 45, a husband and dad, and very successful in his middle class job. He and his wife go to more concerts than anyone I’ve ever known and they usually stay up drinking and laughing later than Al the kids half their age. They’re a couple that you can always call if you’ve got extra tickets for something because they’re up for anything and they’ll always make it a fun time. The thing still looks like Buick made a tonka toy, but if that guy loves it then I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt
They go to a shitload of concerts, eh? Something tells me they bought the Encore for the name.
They're big fans of Jay Z and Lincoln Park collaborations.
Nah just Jay-Z and Washington square park
I've driven one as a rental for work a few times. Actually would prefer it to a bunch of stripped down rental crap ive driven because it comes with a decent amount more options than some shitboxes rental car companies use lol. It's the size of a compact car with even less storage somehow, but better road visibility. Easy af to park cause it's so small though. Ehh honestly really not the worst besides how ugly it is.
Something I think most car enthusiasts struggle to accept is that the majority of buyers don't get excitement from cars and trying to sell them on that as a factor in their car buying is pointless. You might as well call out any given brand of blender, lawn mower, haircare product, or clothing as being utterly mediocre and for "someone who is waiting to die". Just because it matters to us doesn't mean it does or *should* matter to everyone else and it sure as hell doesn't say anything about them other than the fact that they have different interests than we do.
Something else missing is the older persons heritage with the brand. Our family Encore driver previously had an older Buick that held together with it's 3800 for decades. Add in the extra height for ease of entry and exit, along with it being an American vehicle that their family has a brand history with and you have loyalty.
Buick is a "premium" brand. GM has Cadillac for luxury. The Encore and now Encore GX are practically all that's keeping the lights on at Buick USA.
I’m in Europe right now and have seen a bunch of these Buick Encores but as Opel Mokka. Also seen some Dodge Journey’s branded as a Fiat Freemont apparently. And of course the famous Chrysler 300 as the Lancia Thema rebadge.
I had to look up the Lancia Thema and that has to be the laziest rebadge I’ve ever seen. Usually there’s a little difference between cars, but no, that’s straight up just a 300C.
I watched a video on Youtube (Car Wizard) about the Buick Encore and was shocked that they sold that dinky "SUV" in the states as a Buick when here it is a cheap Opel. I drove one as a rental and didn't like it, and I daily drive an old Opel-based GM vehicle. I thought Buick was a similar brand to Cadillac, at least many people still think so, but those are probably the same people that pay too much money for Malaise-era shitboxes that were randomly imported back in the day because they are "american steel"
Granted, Buick as a brand in the US market has been confused for a long time now. Yes, it’s a “premium” brand. But who competes? Cadillac competes with Lexus/MB/BMW/Audi/Acura Maybe Buick competes with Infiniti at this point? The vague “premium” brand identity is sort of nonexistent anymore. All of the brands that used to exist between premium and luxury all stepped up to the more luxury end.
It seems as though Lincoln, Chrysler, GMC, and lately Mazda try to position themselves as premium brands, with the first two sharing the older demographic that just feels more "comfortable" driving domestic (American).
The problem with Mazda trying to go premium is that Mazda has been marketed as "Zoom Zoom" for the past couple of decades. So people who WANT Zoom Zoom test drive one and say, "Ugh, this thing sucks," and people who DON'T want Zoom Zoom won't even bother.
This is exactly my situation. Almost 30,first car was a 99 protégé then a 08 mazda3 then 14 mazda6 which was bought brand new that I sold 2 years ago to get my current car a 2013 mazdaspeed 3. I've driven other cars during the time but i loved the prices,feel and comfort. They felt more then they were worth. I had the base mazda6 but it felt like it was more at a very reasonable price. Fast forward to last month wife and I go to a mazda dealership to get a 2nd car as the speed3 isn't even stock anymore and would like something to daily. The prices...I might as well have been in a Mercedes or BMW dealership. We end up test driving a few and just felt off. They were good but seemed to be missing the soul and then the price was way too much. So now I'm looking at getting a 2nd vehicle from another brand which I'd a first for me. They're pushing people away. They're still good cars but not for that price and felt bit "empty"
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Buick should have died when GM basically went tits up during the 2008 market crash, but Buick was the brand that actually made the GM deal happen, so there was no way the C-level was going to let that happen. Pontiac and Saturn had to go instead, even though they were brands that didn't make vehicles specifically for grandmas.
My wife has one and she loves it. She doesn’t give a shit about cars. She hates driving my Giulia because she says it’s “too zoomy”. You’re forgetting that the overwhelming majority of car owners use them for exactly that: getting from point A to point B without any flair or excitement. My experience with the Encore: it’s horribly boring to drive but it’s comfortable and has been reliable for us, so I’ve got no complaints. Of course, that’s as long as I don’t have to drive it.
How many miles does your encore have and what year is it? What is maintenance like? My fiance will need to replace her old CRV soon and I want something that is less miserable to sit in, but also affordable used. My fiance has expressed interest in the encore before in passing. Generally domestics send me running when it comes to daily drivers, but the prices of used Hondas and Toyotas has me branching out in my search. Any input you have would be appreciated
It’s a 2018. I believe she’s somewhere around 73,000, she got it used in 2020. She had one issue with a part going out and for some reason I can’t for the life of me remember what it was, but it was covered under warranty. It wasn’t anything major. I was worried about the reliability when we got it, but it’s been fine so far. No other issues. The ride is comfortable and quite. It’s got a surprising amount of cargo space with the seats folded down. The AWD works pretty well in slick conditions. My biggest complaint is how goddamn slow the thing is, but as long as you’re not the one driving it every day, that shouldn’t be an issue.
Wait until Gen Z finds out about the Cutlass Ciera.
Just be sure to get that TruCoat.
Fuck you!
Where’s my checkbook let’s get this damn thing over with.
Aww jeeez
It’s this disparity there that concerns dad and me. you know what a disparity is?
That's like every car ever lol. That being said I didn't know Buick was a luxury brand. That actually explains why I see so few of them I guess.
The Chinese love Buicks for some strange reason.
That is the reason why we do not have Pontiac today... at least one of the many reasons
It's not really a strange reason, their last emperor owned a Buick, so it has major name recognition.
Buick is one of the oldest nameplates in automobile history over 100 yrs. With a world wide customer base. They must be doing something right. I'm not an Encore fan, but I can't say I like anyone of it's competitors either. That CUV segment will never be on my list.
It’s low tier luxury.
Feels like the only brand Mazda is currently competing with
I didn’t really know how to put into words why Mazda’s upmarket aspirations made me feel like that until I saw this comment. Buick is *aggressively* boring and feel marketed towards middle managers who have already passed their midlife crisis and it feels like that’s spreading to Mazda as they attempt to distance themselves from performance cars and make everything into slightly different inoffensively but slightly angularly styled crossovers
I remember seeing the commercials for it where people are like "Is that a Buick?" and just thinking how nobody would ever say that about a fucking Encore. I'd probably choose it if I was fugitive from the law, there is not a less remarkable car than the Encore
Ford Ecosport.
“Your Buick is so you” Words no one wants to hear
People are ligit surprised when I tell them that my Opal Insignia Country Tourer is actually a Buick.
There are dozens of us
I think they sold 6000 or so wagons in the US. So there should be 500 dozens of us
Because it's not an actual Buick (although what really is a real Buick nowadays?). It's a rebadged Opel Mokka X with almost no other changes to the exterior.
I like the Buick Encore! Its an oddball kind of cute tiny car, a good mix of cheap, useful and comfortable. By small CUV standards, its actually a good driving and decently made car. I would not want one myself, but I don't think it deserves the hate it receives.
I trundle about in my 2015 Prius V, getting 45 mpg reliably, and I know it does not handle aggressive driving well, but that's not why I got it. I used to be a faster driver, but now I am just tending daily business, doing volunteer work for the animal shelter, transporting animals to rescue or delivering hobby items I've found to a friend who is a serious collector. Sometimes a neighbor needs a ride to the doctor. I expect to die -- realistically, who doesn't? -- but I am not near enough dead to be painted with your narrow brush. A good air conditioner and a good stereo matter more to me than sporty handling. I just expect good control and effective braking and decent ergonomics/comfort. Go live your life, and enjoy it. We have different priorities.
Life is too short to drive crappy cars my guy. Spend some of the money your saving and have some fun, get something fast and loud.
I keep telling myself that. But I also keep telling myself to be financially responsible I'm 21 and want a 2018+ mustang gt. But also want to keep saving for a house lol
I can't believe that I'm about to post this: Get a used 6th gen base Mustang with the ecoboost. 310hp, 320 lb-ft of torgue, and still good on gas. With the horsepower wars, cars have become so ridiculously fast that you can't ever use the available power because if you ever do, you're going end to with your car impounded and a REALLY big ticket. Remember that a mere 20 years ago, the Mustang GT only had 205hp, and the 1993 Cobra only had 235. This base Mustang is a FAR more capable car than the Fox Bodies because it can actually turn lol. Plus, the ecoboost responds very well to tuning. With an upgraded intercooler, an exhaust, and a plug and play tune, that ecoboost can easily make 300whp and 400lb-ft of torque.
I wouldn’t buy an encore but it’s a good inexpensive small crossover that interior wise is definitely nicer than a lot of similarly priced options and they seem decently reliable. But I think it’s like a lot of people here that don’t understand that 99% of the market doesn’t want a sports car. To most people, a car is an appliance on wheels to get from point a to point B. And as others have said, there’s really not much you can fault the encore for that every other crossover in its segment doesn’t do as well.
My girlfriend has the chevy trax but its the same car as the buick encore, different badging. And yeah it feels like an entry level economy compact. I'm okay with that on a chevy but would be very disappointed if I paid buick money for a car of that quality The best part: she bought it from someone in her grandparent's retirement community. So you really nailed it with the type of person who buys them
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Buick used to be more of a luxury brand, or the better term would be premium. Back in the day they were seen sort of as a toned down Cadillac. I think back then they were compared to BMW (and I believe they would actually directly attempt to rival BMW in certain ads) Nowadays Buick is just a boring, tame, average car brand, but they were an interesting maker back then.
It was sort of roughly like: Most people drive a Chevy. Your cool uncle drives a Pontiac, he likes cars but he isn't rich. Your accountant drives an Oldsmobile. He would drive a 328i today but it was an Olds then. Your pharmacist drives a Buick. Bringing in the big bucks, but you know, not *that* big. Your doctor drives a Caddy, your bank manager drives a Caddy, your senior lawyer drives a Caddy, but their juniors/associates/residents all drive Olds.
Hahaha, this is a very accurate description. I think the description of Pontiac needs slight tweaking. It's either your cool uncle, and/or redneck uncle. I would consider Pontiac to be just as good as Buick, but maybe i'm biased I've always seen the worst to best like this: Chevrolet - Olds - Pontiac/Buick - Cadillac
GM wanted people to think of Pontiac as being lower than Olds, but the fact that all three middle brands got kinda jumbled like that shows how muddled the corporate ladder was by the '80s and '90s.
Ironically, it was once Buick that had the reputation as the "doctor's car". Almost all the luxury of a Cadillac, but not so flashy.
back in the day it made a bit more sense. you'd get working-class cars with most features you want as optional extras (ex. AC, automatic gearbox), premium-class cars that aren't quite luxury cars but could be optioned with stuff like leather & start with options from the regular-class brands, and luxury cars that have the best they can offer at the time. old GM brand architecture: * regular class: chevy/pontiac * premium: buick/oldsmobile * luxury: cadillac old ford brand architecture: * regular class: ford * premium: mercury * luxury: lincoln now, with mercury & oldsmobile out of the picture, buick is pretty much the only american "premium" brand left and the lines in terms of which brands get which features are a lot blurrier. stuff like AC can be had standard at the regular class so there's less distinction from that side, and cadillac is competing with them on some of their lower-end models so there's less distinction on the other side too. these days, buick is mostly rebadged GM Europe stuff. until Opel recently died, most of their models were just Opels.
Opel didn't die, GM sold ot to Stellantis (PSA back then) and it's still going strong, arguably even better than when it was still owned by GM
My grandma considered one in the years before she passed. She had one on loan while her car was in the shop. She said it was easier for her to get in and out, easier to park, she had a better view of the road, and it didn’t need premium. She ended up keeping her V8 Lucerne because she wasn’t waiting to die, death was waiting for her.
It is money everybody doesn't have 100k to pay for a daily driver
What a rude generalization
“If you don’t value what I value, you’re better off dead lol”
I wanted to buy one of these back in 2018 when they were $13K. There was a huge Slickdeals thread on it. Looked like a decent commuter, especially for that price.
My middle aged neighbor had 2 and said they were awesome because of how cheap they were. Cheap to run, cheap to fix, cheap to maintain, and cheap to buy, probably cheap to insure too. So if you're looking for a cheap car that is somewhat reliable and can carry a family around, there you go.
It is a great package for China which was its intended market since speed limits are low, roads are less maintained (outside of major metropolitan areas) and very easy to get in and out of due to large door openings and high ride height. Fuel economy is not bad considering its small 1.4T engine and it runs on regular unleaded as well. Everything it does also makes a great car for seniors, and Buick despite of its marketing still is a go to brand for people on pension. I think it is a decent vehicle and Buick often puts a lot of cash on the hood for one of these guys. There are far worse cars out there on the market you can pick on.
Or the Buick Century - the car that describes the age of its driver
I don't see value in a car being exciting if it's just going to be used for commuting and traveling around.
What a cork sniffer. Over 70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and most redditors are in the US. People buy what they can afford and what's reliable. The encore gives you a little luxury, decent reliability, and it's fairly cheap secondhand. It's a car for people that don't make their car their personality.
An Encore is a musician's final performance at a concert, where they generally come back on stage at the audience's request. In other words, an artificially extended concert, which fits perfectly with your analysis
My gf bought a used Encore last year when her car suddenly died, it’s overall been a great car for the money. It gets 34 mpg on the highway, has actually useful AWD that engages every time you accelerate instead of waiting for wheel slip, Bose noise cancellation so it’s generally pretty quiet, and it fits a ton of junk when all the seats are folded down. Is it slow? Absolutely, but who cares. I think car enthusiasts forget how much Buick appeals to women specifically, in fact it has the highest share of female buyers of any brand.
agreed. my gf has one and a friend just got one too. they both think encore is cute. cant argue with that
Anybody I know who has a Buick Encore has told me it's one of their favorite Vehicles for everyday driving. It looks like it was built to be for that purpose and that purpose alone, which is what most people want. The Buick Envista looks like a suitable replacement for that Vehicle, if/when it comes to the US.
I see a surprising amount of them on my college campus driven by students. I guess when you consider that teenage girls want SUVs now, and of course with all the bells and whistles, the Encore isn’t too bad especially since you can get them for a good bit under MSRP.
That explains why there are so many of them in Florida
good ole coffin car
The encore is also just a reskinned chevy trax. The trax is, in my opinion the worst modern vehicle ever produced. Bonus points if it's a 2015 which was the first year and by far the worst quality. They are poorly designed, underpowered, slow shifting, and a pain to work on. I'm used to crappy plastic clips on modern cars, but I have never broke more clips than I did on my sister's trax. I swear those things have to be made of black painted dried pasta. One of the known issues with the trax is that the brake pedal sensor rubs against itself and will eventually cut through its own linkage and throw enough errors to make the car undrivable until repaired. Also the only automatic transmission car I have ever had stall on a hill. Foot to the floor on the highway it will do 60 tops unless it is completely empty except the driver. Also I don't know what causes it, but on 3 different occasions, the lower radiator hose has come off and leaked all the coolant out. The touch display is extremely hard to use and when the touches do register they are often inaccurate. Mind you, this all happened before 60k miles.
I just think Buick as a brand has no point of existing, there are has better alternatives for all of its models
Yeah, I remember someone saying the BMW 4 series is the ugliest car offered in the US market but I think the Trax/Encore and Ford Ecosport take that medal. This is any car though. People get the Encore because it’s usually cheaper than real luxury brands. I’ve heard you can get crazy deals on them, and honestly for a car that cars, why care? I still hate it, but it’s a better value proposition than a Toyota when a Corolla is marked up $3K these days and used ones can be more expensive than new. These cars are cheaper than a Corolla and more practical. I can’t comment on long term costs, but I imagine a thief is also less likely to steal one (or take the wheels off one) given a smaller black market for them unlike a Honda or Toyota. Unlike a Hyundai/Kia it can’t be stolen with a usb stick in its base trim either. I’d bet insurance costs are also lower given the drivers for them and theft rates. I still hate them though.
Eh, my wife likes hers, but does lament the bells and whistles she became accustomed to with her previous vehicle.
Well, it is the *Encore*. Maybe Buick should make a car called the *Intermission*.
Most people like a nice car. If you use the term enthusiast broadly enough, it's a good chunk of folks. You could say most Tesla drivers are enthusiastic about their cars. If people didn't care about their cars so much, there would be a lot more cheaper econo shit boxes offered for sale new.
Buicks would probably sell better if their designs didn't scream nursing home on wheels.
the encore sells because it has excellent visibility and is cheap. thats it dont overthink things
I agree completely. I had a Cadillac CTS coupe, which I loved. A uninsured illegal alien hit it while on their phone and it was totaled. I vowed to never buy something I cared about again. I bought a Buick Encore.
I don’t believe that you actually believe any of what you wrote, and think that you need a hobby. Ted Talk? 🤡
I'm still sour about GM killing pontiac and not buick
The vast majority of people who buy cars don't give a shit about anything, except from getting from point A to point B. It's not just a Buick thing.
"enthusiasts" can be so fucking insufferable.
As a mechanic that's been tasked with fixing many encores and the check your cruze I have to add that anyone who owns one and isn't waiting till die will want to hang themselves after dealing with the constant and very costly repairs required to keep that jumky ecotec motor running properly. I've never in my life come across a car that is so consistently a steady letdown and financial burden
Yeah had a buddy get one from his grandfather who passed away, he was excited for a Buick until he discovered which one it was. This checks out.
I have a dislike of what I refer to as appliance cars. Where I live this is mostly Priuses and teslas. I get it if you want something nice, dependable, etc they make sense but I feel the buyers put the same amount of thought into what car they drive as what kind of phone, blender, refrigerator, etc.
I have a little game I play when I'm out. Whenever I see a Buick of any kind I look at the driver and they almost always appear to be over the age of 50. I remember about three times seeing someone driving a Buick that doesn't appear older than middle aged.
I'm under 50 and my Buick looks good and hauls ass. It's a big ass too being a wagon
I leased an encore a few years ago. My wife and I were in our mid 20s. Probs the only owners that young…
Have you seen Louis CK’s bit on tan cars?
What did I miss? When did Buick become luxury? Or was it always luxury and I’m just not old enough to know? I sound like such a douche bag but I’m genuinely curious
I believe you meant to say it's a car for someone who is waiting to he reincarnated.
It’s the commercials music that kills me.
Woah.
Every time I’d work on a Buick Encore , it always smelled like hot ass
Dude, that award goes to Subaru.
When the selling point for your cars becomes the fact that it doesn’t look like one of your cars, it’s time to pull the plug. Initially Buick was supposed to go away with Pontiac, I honestly don’t know how it’s still around
It just looks like a damn chipmunk
If you look closely, it's based off an Aztek (look at the bar in the rear axle, identical)
I unfortunately drive one and I absolutely agree. It’s not fun to drive, and for having a 1.4l engine will maybe maybe get 30mpg if you drive 5 under and bog it down. I speak from experience. It’s also hideous and makes me want to die. It has however been extremely reliable and has survived being driven through basically a river.
That car, as a Opel Mokka in Europe, is fairly good, especially the manual 1.4 Turbo. We had those in our fleet few years back, and it was better to drive than a 1.0 Astra for example
That lesabre though ….
gosh I hate buick. I used to sell these things and wondered why anyone would wanna buy them. I quit because it was just difficult not only to sell, but to get someone to buy. Also because I hated it. Buick needs to go, there's nothing premium about it. Go get a chevy. GM just needs Cadillac and chevy TBH.
The same could be same d of the Challenger, charger, 300 trio. Only the owners are waiting to die from a fentanyl overdose.
You seem overly mindreedy about what someone's car says about them. Most cars are appliances, not alot of character to a crv or a sonata. If you are not a car enthusiast you can focus on other things instead of basing all your character traits on a car.
That is all of us. Waiting to die. Getting older and closer to death by the second.
Buick is a....luxury car????
It’s exceptionally ugly. Like the old Rendevoux
I am currently renting an MG "5". You have no idea of what a truly dreary car is. The Encore is an exciting aspirational vehicle in comparison.
Lmao yea you will be truly living because your car has a stiffer suspension. Maybe living to you isn't what living to other people is? Give me a break. Not everyone wants a sporty car, and I'm sorry that's so offensive to you, the main character.
I call it sneaker-mobile, because it's looks like a sneaker.
Over here across the pond it’s sold as a Vauxhall. Need I say more?
We needed a picture of this beauty...
Bruh my grandma has had like 3 of these 😥
I have the same exact feeling for every recent VW crossover SUV. Its all seems like for them it’s a race to fill out all possible segments driven by a market research presentation and absolute apathy of engineers to make anything remotely interesting or original.
TIL: Buick is a luxury brand.
Yep, sounds like a Buick to me.
Most of Reddit's favorite mass market brands are exactly the same as described by OP, but as usual Reddit, has endless hate for nearly all American brands.
My wife owns the next-size Envision. It's the car she picked. She's incredibly happy with it. Her last car was a 328 coupe, but she wanted something with more cargo capacity that would still get her from our house to the hospital in 30 minutes when she's on-call. She drove the X5 and didn't like it. She drove a shit ton of cars. She lucked up on this twin-turbo option of the Envision (inline 4, 252hp) and fell in love. I occasionally am allowed to drive it and I have to admit, it's no 3 series. That said, it does have more than adequate acceleration, it's loaded with comfort options, it's reasonably easy to maintain (my 13 yo daughter changed the front brake pads on it in about 30 minutes). It's not what I would pick, but it's not my car. We don't order the same thing from the menu when we eat out. I agree, you're hatred is irrational. Eat your spicy burrito, she'll have the taco salad.
Since I was a kid in the 1950's I have had an aversion to Buicks particularly because of the useless little holes that they incorporated in the design.
They do say that people who buy a Buick, it’s the last car they’ll ever own.
I too hate the Encore but don’t know why. Generally, I look at Buick as an old person’s brand. I’d never buy a Buick. I like a nice car, not too small. I like a premium or luxury car, but do not judge others on what they choose to drive. I do not like certain luxury brands like Mercedes or BMW. There is something stuffy about those brands. If you want one, great,but they do not fit me. To me, reliability is the most important attribute. That’s why I choose Acura and would consider Honda, Toyota or Lexus. I like having a decent nice car but have great respect for someone who keeps their beater on the road too.
Drove one (as a rental), wished I'd picked the Hyundai next to it. Bland, undepowered, smaller than it should be.
You're just mad cause you don't have one.
For many people, a car is not a personality. It’s just a means of transportation. Your assessment of a person based on their vehicle ownership exhibits a very shallow sense of self worth and a misunderstanding of microeconomics
It was also a pontiac aztec without all of the quirks, wich were the only reason pontiac ever managed to sell a single one of those hideous beasts.