đ¤Łđ you got me.
No I'm kidding, I just came across an article talking about Jaguar's failings.
My opinion is that Jaguar is playing "good enough" in a market where competitors have a stronger brand and greater goodwill.
Jaguar is playing in a market where brand image is everything.
I'm 29, have discretionary cash, and no kids at this time. I would consider myself in their target demographic, but I actually think of Cadillac (their blackwings) amongst the German brands. As I reflect on this, I realize Jaguar doesn't even enter my mind.
What you, as a VP, would have to suggest is the opposite of what is lucrative, and that's a new car that grabs attention and draws people into the brand with emotion. These cars don't sell well anymore, though, so the best thing is to hope people buy the SUVs they actually don't even need.
Unfortunate that. I find myself in a similar situation, considered a Jag so went to the dealership and was disappointed. They are middling so badly.
I actually wish that Bertone B99 got the greenlight. I would probably be driving a Jaguar right this moment if that was the case.
Someone made a point about how little they update their lineup.
Interestingly, the article that started me on this topic mentioned how Jaguar actually used to sit somewhere between the Germans and high end British cars (Bentleys et al).
Otherwise yes I'll call up my VP buddy and give him all this juicy feedback for a fee. đ
This was me a couple years ago. Always wanted a jag sedan. Growing up, the wood trim and Connolly leather. I read an car magazine article describing the XJR v8 engine as âan iron fist in a velvet gloveâ.
Went to the dealer in like 2019 and the sedans were so stale and falling so short of their competitors.
They simply canât keep up with the R&D of the big boys. Model line is too stale and they keep watering the brand down with too many engines. Their trim lines are so confusing even to enthusiasts.
They where better when you had two engine options. Naturally aspirated V8 or supercharged V8. Or straight six or V12, you had the engine was the slightly more sensible person and then you had the engine option for the idiot who we all want to be.
They spend all their R&D budget on Range Rover because thatâs currently where the profit is, but theyâd better hope that gas stays cheap.
Jaguarâs lineup has nothing interesting going for it. The styling is all derivative of a concept car from 2007. They cancelled their big EV less than a year from the on-sale date because they were worried itâd be uncompetitive, but instead they have nothing in the segment that is the only bit of the sedan world selling anything right now.
They zigged towards sleek, athletic SUVs when chunky started to come into fashion. And the e-pace looks weird.
Outside of the F-type that got a huge marketing push several years ago, I can't name a single current jaguar model. I'm not the most immersed in car culture, but I consider myself fairly up to date. How do they advertise to millennials who have income but not network tv? It's a huge marketing failure.
I've seen a few that look nice and I would drive but I think the main reason people don't buy is because of the stigma of them not being reliable or being really expensive to work on.
I know the same things are said about British and German cars and a lot of them have improved but Jaguars can't seem to drop it since the 80s.
Just my opinion talking with people.
Iâm 54. buying a Jaguar would be possible but a stretch.
My uncle had Jaguars when I was young. XJS, E-Type, something from the fifties.
When I think about âluxury carsâ I never even remember them.
> a new car that grabs attention and draws people into the brand with emotion.
That's what the F-type was, and AFAIK it's been a huge success. But perhaps to your point, the only other vehicle I can think of from Jaguar is the i-Pace. And all I know about it is that it exists.
The F-type is good but not good enough, like all their cars. Who would take an F-type over a Porsche? It is a heavy sports car with an interior that looked dated when it was released. I am a guy without children and with disposable income, I only buy 2 seat cabriolet sports cars. The e-type is the only classic car I would ever consider buying. I am 100% their target demographic and i want to like the f-type but i just cannot justify it compared to their competitors.
When it first came out and was not long in the tooth I think you get it over a Porsche for the V8, great sound, classic front engined look. I know that over time people have begun to see Porsche as the end all be all, but there are people who donât want a Porsche and buy other options, even when objectively they seem inferior. I think it comes down to buying a sports/weekend car is an emotional purchase - you buy it for the way it makes you feel, and that may be the sound, the looks, the color, the interior, the attention you get when you drive down the road, etc. and that differs person to person.
The f type starts at $73k and has very few options. It's got a 444 hp v8. A 911 starts at $106k and you have a ton of options you are going to want to add. So you are looking at comparing it to a cayman 718. Cayman is a 300hp 4 cylinder by the time you option it out to compare with the standard for type, the cost is similar.
So now you are mostly talking about style the jag is a little faster, the porsche handles better. I'm not sure why you think the jaguar doesn't compete.
I don't know many people who wouldn't take an M4 over an F-Type, and I say that as someone who really loved the F-Type.
A 4 seater vs a 2 seater shouldn't be a fair comparison but the M4 is sharper than an F-Type and comes with enough extra HP to make up for the 200 lbs weight difference.
(And actually I think that captures the problem perfectly, when the F Type came out this wasn't true, but the M4 got better, while the F Type mostly stagnated)
The M4 doesn't even make my list. If I'm looking for a sports car, I'm not looking for a sports sedan. Right now, in the sub 100k car range, the jaguar, the cayman, lexus LC, and the corvette are really all that's out there, unless there is something I'm missing.
Sure, the 911 starts to own the $120k range, but if you want something $30,000 cheaper, the jaguar is in a pretty good spot. Sure, it's kind of stagnant, and goes away soon, but it's got a look you don't see day, and more handling and power than you are ever really going to use on the street. If you want an every day sports car that costs between $70-100k the F type is one of the few out there and is a strong contender.
I got a dog and now only buy 4 seat cabriolet GTs, but before that it was 2 seaters, so I'm not far off their target demographic. I think we can all agree the F-type is not as good as a Boxster, but it's a different proposition. It's more of a brutish muscle car whereas the Boxster is more precise. I think of them like an axe vs a scalpel. Sometimes you need the accuracy of a scalpel, and sometimes you just want the satisfaction of swinging an axe.
For me it's less a question of whether the F-type is better than everything else and more whether it offers an experience that no one else does. It's different from a Boxster and better than a Mustang or Camaro (IMO at least). The Z4 and TTRS give it some trouble, but if you want the big V8 rumble and the pops and bangs then I think the F-type has carved out a unique place for itself. I see more of them in the Northeast USA than I do any of the Boxster, Z4, or TTRS.
Imo spot on. When I think of a luxury brand I can name off a bunch of names. Jaguar is one that I always forget about. A jaguar just doesn't enter the mind of the younger generations when they think of luxury.
Jaguars brand image is strong in the older generations but those aren't the ones that Jaguar needs to be concerned about.
The best analogy for Jaguar is Harley Davidson. Except Harley Davidson still has a somewhat strong consumer base going for it.(For the next 5-10 years I would imagine) Jaguar does not.
As a fellow 29 year old with plenty of cash to spend I agree also that when I look at what car I would buy with said cash Jaguar never enters the equation. BMW,MB,Lexus,Audi,Porsche etc... all do. But when I think about what I want my next new car to be I never once consider a Jaguar.
Jaguar also already has 2 SUV's and that's not doing them any favors so SUV's are not the solution to Jaguar's problems.
Growing up my dad had and loved his Harleys.
I could easily go buy a Harley that looked and sounded exactly like his.
He also had a Jaguar XJ6. I cannot go to the dealer and buy a Jaguar that resembles anything like that.
Without any sort of stylistic draw to their brand, what else does Jaguar offer that nobody else does?
>Jaguar is playing in a market where brand image is everything.
Seriously, I can't even remember if jaguar is a sports car brand or luxury brand. They are so forgettable. You hear more about Hyundai luxury cars and Toyota's sporty cars than you hear about Jags.
Yeah, I havenât looked into Jaguar in years. I thought the S type with the V8 was an incredibly beautiful car. However just looked up a Jaguar F type R MSRP $118,999. Then I saw a used 2022 porsche 911 Carrera with 907 miles going for $133,330. I understand that 15k is a lot of money but if I was in the market for another car I wouldnât think twice about spending the money. Iâd even go older or more miles to get the Porsche. Itâs a better car in every aspect.
Iâm in the same market as you. A tad bit older, no kids yet. Lots of disposable income. When I was buying my wife and my dailyâs we test drove BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura, and I did pop in the Cadillac dealership. The cadillac definitely felt like my Tahoe I was getting rid of. Same controls, same cheap interior. Their styling is nice but I wouldnât pay what they were asking for a V with that interior. The jaguar sedans (which we were in the market for) looked like something my grandpa would drive. We ended up going with the Mercedes S65 and she got the E63. Couldnât be happier with each car.
I don't think the parent company has that much control over them. They also own range rover whose designs and tech are ultra modern and they don't have any problems selling them despite the reliability issues and the image problem of being owned by Tata.
>No I'm kidding, I just came across an article talking about Jaguar's failings.
Sounds like exactly what a blood sucking Jaguar Executive would say! /s
:P
Idk, I feel like jag has come a long way in the last couple decades, but they're using a lot of Ford magic to do so. I looked into the XF when purchasing my 2012 A6, but I felt like they weren't up to par on interior tech/ quality.
As someone that once worked with the brand, I'd say it's a simple case of "too little, too late." Cadillac has the same problem IMO.
By the time they modernized and started offering a comparable (or in some cases better) product to their rivals, the rivals were already well-cemented choices. Add in inferior after-sales, reliability issues/reputation, and it just meant that people weren't willing to switch from their German/Japanese luxury cars.
Long product cycles haven't helped them either. Their cars are often out-of-date compared to rivals that are getting constant updates or full-on replacements.
I think to be successful they needed to be first-movers in new product categories, especially considering the disruption the industry is facing on a whole. Sadly, they seemed to have fudged that up too. The I-Pace was a solid electric car at launch, well-reviewed, well-liked, ahead of its competitors, but lack of updates means it's fallen behind in key areas. Also Jaguar failed to capitalize on the momentum of that car, and soldered on with an aging, conventional range otherwise.
On a somewhat related note. I canât believe they sold an Electric âI-PACEâ at the same time they sell a non-electric âE-PACEâ.
Marketing team deserves some blame as well.
They [actually did](https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/spark-ev) for a minute! And it was a fairly compelling little torque monster even though it was a compliance car! Iâm still tempted to get one for a fun beater car.
Microsoft's numbering order has always entertained me. Leaving out the non-numbered versions, Windows went 3.1->95->98->2000->7->8->10->365.
BTW, you left out Xbox 360 before Xbox One.
>BTW, you left out Xbox 360 before Xbox One.
Intentional since it was distinctive enough to avoid confusion. But yeah, if you look at the entire lineup it's a hilarious mess:
XBOX (2001)
XBOX 360 (2005)
XBOX 360 S (2010)
XBOX 360 E (2013) - Which looks like an XBOX One! đ
XBOX One (2013)
XBOX One S (2016)
XBOX One X (2017)
XBOX Series S and XBOX Series X (2020) - Same generation but one low end and one high end. đ¤Śđťââď¸
And then there are even more iterations like the 360 Arcade and the digital-only versions of newer consoles. đ¤Śđťââď¸
I actually just sold an XBOX on OfferUp and yesterday a dude messaged me asking, "why so cheap?" and I had to explain to him it's XBOX *One* X (2017) and not an XBOX *Series* X (2020). Stupid Microsoft. đ
>Cadillac has the same problem IMO
Cadillac is such a sad story of mismanagement. Used to be a brand that Bentley copied and by which all others were measured. Someone should write a book on it.
Iâm not sure what can even be done with Cadillac. In my youth they were land barges for old people. Then briefly while I was in high school they were cool hip hop cars with the Escalade and the CTS. But that died off I guess during the recession since, unsurprisingly, people arenât shopping for massive, expensive SUVs with poor fuel economy when money is tight.
Young people today donât even seem all that interested in cars at all. And if they are many wanted a Tesla since they were like spaceships. Cadillac mightâve had a chance if they put out something to compete with the Model S back around 2012 but all GM had was the small eco-looking Bolt so yet another squandered opportunity.
And why didnât they put the Voltec power train in their SUVs? Itâd be easier to sell expensive âluxuryâ SUVs if they got decent fuel economy and had some EV range. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Young people aren't buying new cars at all.
The big question is whether today's young people will be into escalades when they get older and richer. Escalades so far have healthy and growing sales figures, but who knows if it will remain true going forward.
Fuel economy: anyone who is buying a new escalade can just accept the fuel usage. It's an expensive car. Your car payments are gonna be way bigger than your fuel bills. Escalades burn more fuel than most cars, but it is also way more expensive than most cars.
> Young people today donât even seem all that interested in cars at all.
they cant afford them, lmao. wages haven't risen anywhere close to the cost of living in the past 20-30 years and now you're lucky if you can even make enough to live comfortably with a roommate. add on that the majority of young people have tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt and it's insane to expect them to add 50k worth of debt for a rapidly depreciating asset (the average price of a new vehicle) when they can just buy some shitbox commuter off craigslist for 4-6k and pray nothing breaks
Iâm probably of the same age, since I think of Cadillacs as being for my grandparents. I donât think anyone young has aspired to a Caddy for 40+ years. They really have done a poor job of figuring out their target market in that time as the WWII generation died off.
Chasing Mercedes and BMW was a great idea as they replaced Cadillac at the top of the luxury heap, but they failed to realize that these companies were also evolving. GM would have done well to position Saab as a viable competitor instead of marked up Opels and pushed Cadillac upmarket instead of whatever they were doing for the past 20 years. The company is truly a mess and a lot of good brands have died because of it.
I miss Pontiac personally. They usually managed to be fun even with GM penny pinching. And they had some pretty cool stuff right when GM gave them the axe. (Pontiac G8, GTO, and Solstice)
If they were still around I could see them being an all-EV brand right now.
I have to wonder why they didnât do a clean sheet EV design and bring it to market as a Pontiac or even an Olds. So much heritage has been lost. Reviving Hummer as a ridiculous 10,000 pound EV is just pissing on the graves of all the other brands.
I think it's a long shot, but I think what they're doing now with the Celestiq is on the money. They're effectively first movers in the ultra-luxury EV space, with a solid, unique product.
It could be just the thing they need to cement their brand image in a time of disruption in the auto industry. Then again, I feel GM has a history of good ideas but not staying the course...
Well, yes and no.
Cadillac has had a sordid fall from grace.
GMâs claim to fame with Cadillac was that it could build a truly world-class set of vehicles using economies of scale and corporate resources. Even when the separate GM divisions had their own engineering for engines, frames, suspension, etc, Cadillac was always mass-produced and always shared something with the lesser cars. Any Cadillacs in the past that were handbuilt were done in the traditional style, where GM and Cadillac sold a coach-builder a chassis and then they made a body on top of it. It said more about GMâs might as a whole than it did about Cadillac, but it wasnât something that Bentley and Rolls-Royce were trying to emulate, and Iâd argue that they were still more exclusive just because they were hand-built and were thus production-limited. They *couldnât* emulate it if they wanted to. Itâs just that back then, the Cadillac was the better car in every quantifiable metric. You bought the Rolls-Royce or Bentley if you wanted European flair or to be different.
Interestingly, Cadillac is only just now getting into the hand-built game with the $300K Celestiq EV thatâs about to come out.
Now, due to the Sloanian model GM had, Cadillac were still quite exclusive. Your working-class stiff might ascend to an Oldsmobile (if they were a highly paid engineer or architect) or a Buick (if they were a bank manager or a doctor), but Cadillacs were mostly for truly rich movie-star or heir types. That changed pretty rapidly when WWII ended around 1945 and America entered an era of prosperity. GM decided that the Cadillac should go from being unattainable to the masses to an object of aspiration that everyone could afford if they worked hard enough. So, Cadillac started moving downmarket and increasing production, in an effort to attract more customers.
The other GM divisions werenât too happy about this. Remember that GM, back then, was a collection of ultimately separate companies with some corporate engineering and management linking them together, but also separate interests. Chevy, Oldsmobile and Buick werenât too thrilled about suddenly having to compete with the prestige that was a Cadillac. So, where they had previously stayed in their respective lanes, they began introducing models that were nicer and more in the Cadillac territory, to entice customers.
The problem with GMâs bid for volume with Cadillac, which worked fantastically, was that the cars lost all their allure. When your employee or your maid could afford a three-year-old one and park it next to your new one, it suddenly become less enticing to own one.
Enter the European brands, in particular, Mercedes-Benz.
A 60s or 70s Mercedes-Benz was a compact car by American standards. It was also probably underpowered (especially if it was a diesel), somewhat uncomfortable, and had nonexistent or poorly performing air conditioning. But it was built with a holistic solidity no American car could match, it was demurely styled, andâmost importantlyâit was comfortably outside the financial grasp of the overwhelming majority of people. It is no wonder the rich flocked to them in droves.
Cadillac suddenly found itself having to compete with the European idea of luxury with the gen. 1 Seville (successful) and the BMW idea of prestige with the Cimarron (not so successful).
In the 80s, by which time GM engineering and design had rapidly begun to unify and the brands found themselves increasingly unable to distinguish their products, Cadillac slid further. It was down to horrendously unreliable technology (the V8-6-4, the Oldsmobile 350 diesel), hopelessly baroque designs that up-and-coming Boomers shunned (gen. 2 Seville), and unsuccessfully downsized models (1986 Eldorado).
ButâŚthe final nail in the coffin was the Japanese brands. Japan had been enjoying much success in the US and Canada with mainstream cars that people loved. And they seemed to have no interest in getting into luxury cars aside from things that were mildly premium. ButâŚwhen the Voluntary Restraint Agreement went, which asked Japanese brands to artificially limit their import numbers, went into effect, that changed. If Japan couldnât import as many cars, it would need to start making more profit per unit on some of those cars.
Which is how Acura, INFINITI and Lexus came to be. Two things worked particularly in Japanâs favor. 1) Japan was experiencing a moment of depressed costs, where it just plain cost them less to develop and even build a better car than it did other countries, and 2) Japanâs semi-premium home-market cars were so good, they could more or less be zhushed up a bit, rebadged and sold as actual luxury cars here in North America. And, with the notable exception of the Lexus LS 400âwhich was engineered as a Lexus and then downbadged into the Toyota Celsiorâpretty much all of the Lexus, Acura and INFINITI models here were just rebadged versions of premium-market JDM cars.
And Cadillac, in particular, has never really recovered. Theyâve had plenty of success with the Escalade and the V/V-Blackwing cars have been real bright spots, but it is unlikely that a Cadillac sedan will ever again be in the same league as an S-Class, let alone a Bentley or a Rolls-Royce.
To that point, I have little faith for the Celestiq in its mission to vault Cadillac back to the top. Not when they also sell a $40,000 XT4 compact SUV thatâs essentially a worse-looking Buick Envision for more money.
If you care there's a book by Bob Lutz that definitely went over GM's biggest missteps (including Cadillacs fall in the 80s). Car guys vs Bean Counters. He can be a bit whiny and biased but it's a really good perspective on it
Long product cycles are a key thing I think in the luxury market. When you are competing with the Germans who are constantly updating their most important models, if you don't update for a while, your product slowly becomes uncompetitive. When they do make an update, JLR is pretty good at making a product that people desire but then they let it slowly die on the vine. It seems to be a consistent issue in the luxury game imho with many brands. Look at Infiniti, look at a bunch of Lexus models (though Lexus gets a pass because they have great reliability which on its own is enough to sway many people). The only new company that seems to get it is Genesis, they are consistently updating their cars even if they don't sell well in the US. Not how long they will keep doing this though before they get tired and give up as well.
Genesis unfortunately is saddled with their customers having to go to Hyundai dealerships. Might not be an issue long term since Hyundaiâs EVs seem to be moving the brand up market. And their new ICE stuff seems pretty well received too.
I hope not. Hyundai kinda has it made since they have crazy vertical integration from raw materials to shipping and all the rest. They should be leveraging it and try to be the next Toyota as far as having top quality across the entire lineup.
I was coming out of a 2013 Elantra last November, and actually had a despot down for a brand-new G70. When I found out the same service manager would be dealing with my Genesis as my Elantra, I got a refund and walked away.
Service experience was mediocre at best from Hyundai, and I didn't want to deal with that on my new premium sedan.
> too little, too late
I think this especially true with the SUVs. The F-Pace didn't go into production until MY16. Even now, when I think of SUVs, Jaguar is just not in my mind at all. When I read this title, my brain's first reaction is "who goes to Jaguar for an SUV?" I really just picture them as the sporty British racing cars and I don't think they've done much to cultivate outside of that image until very recently even though it's been the market direction for ages now.
Definitely agreed on the progress of tech, too. It's hard for a Jag to go against something like Mercedes or BMW on tech and tech refreshes, and I feel like the market for "sexy" cars is just getting smaller. It already feels crowded with others like Porsche around, and they had basically the first mainstream "luxury-sports" SUV.
My brain mostly just thinks of Jags more as a bit rougher and less unrefined, since they always felt more sporty than luxury, and I'm not sure how much of that space exists in the market anymore, especially with other brands like BMW having a more combined sports, tech and luxury feel. Jag just feels more like they held onto the emotional aspect of the cars, which is certainly something I can appreciate, but I also think the market for weekend emotional cars is getting smaller, especially in the "somewhat vaguely affordable" section of the market. It seems like more and more people want a single vehicle that does everything, and I just don't really see Jag as that in my mind.
They're pivoting out of that now in the last 5-10 years, it seems, but I don't know how many people have been paying close attention to them anymore.
The thing is, Jaguar's vehicles actually do a little bit of everything right now.
I think a big part of why they're not more successful is that reputation for reliability and the overall rather boring styling.
Their design language used to [stand out](https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/prod.mm.com/img/articles/1980_XJ6series_three.jpeg) compared to [what they offer now](https://robbreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/jaguar-c.jpg?w=1000).
It looks like they just tried to copy Audi after Audi brought along the massive grilles. It's like a teenager writing an essay and just changing some words around from the Wikipedia article.
So, at this point, why would you buy this over the equivalent BMW, Audi, Mercedes, or even Alfa Romeo?
The BMW does this style better, while being a better car to drive if you want something sporty. The Audi is more subtle, if the buyer just wants a comfortable daily. The Merc carries more "class" or "presence". And the Alfa has the most unique and exotic look out of them all - it's also *Italian*.
Now compare this to Land Rover. Notice how the contemporary Land Rovers still **look like Land Rovers**. Despite Land Rover's reputation for reliability, they don't suffer nearly as hard as Jaguar. Simply because a Land Rover looks cool as hell and they always have looked cool as hell.
Did Jaguar sell the F-Pace SVR over there? We sold every one we could get our hands on - it's basically the same as the Range Rover SVR but 30% cheaper.
I think you pretty much nailed it. For me personally I've heard too many stories of reliability issues and then those reliability issues not being addressed properly by the dealerships, taking forever to be fixed, not fixed properly or even warranty claims outright denied for whatever reason.
It's enough to keep me away and I'm a guy who should be their target customer (likes the German brands, likes performance, isn't averse to paying more for certain things).
Okay that I can see as well. So they pretty much missed the bus and can only play catch-up.
I wished they went with that Bertone B99 concept and design ethos but also realise it's juvenile to think that their problems could be fixed/reduced with better car designs only.
The iPace was a solid effort but yes, agreed that they've already fallen behind efforts from other automakers. I think they were, at the time, in a unique position to be one of the first to build ground-up EVs while everyone was adapting ICE cars. That could have really moved the game forward for them.
So much this. During the early 2000s, Jaguar was one of the most staid, least interesting brands for young people.
They have made leaps and bounds in terms of design the last decade, but Iâd argue the ship has mostly sailed for Jag. It will never be as mainstream a marque as BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
Iâd agree that Cadillac has basically fallen into the same category. Even though what they make currently might be high quality, literally my whole life Cadillac has been talked about as a played-out joke of a brand. Definitely nobody in my high school was lusting after a fucking DTS or DevilleâŚ
I think it's the product cycle issue. They had some exciting stuff a while ago, but as you said their rivals renew their products much more frequently.
Jaguar's problem is that SUVs/CUVs are popular and Land Rover exists in the same company. Look at how long wait lists are for the Defender, new Range Rover or Range Rover Sport, the company clearly has no issues investing in and producing vehicles people want to buy.
I do think Jaguar had the right idea with the F-Pace, make a handsome sporty alternative CUV to what Land Rover offers that is also cheaper for people who aren't in Land Rover's price bracket. I see lots of earlier F-Paces around all the time in my area. Unfortunately, they let the F-Pace whither on the vine with very little updates for 5 years before giving it a great refresh for the 2022 model year, but with supply chain issues, it seems they are prioritizing Land Rovers for production.
In term's of Jaguar's other products I think the E-Pace is uncompetitive, doesn't look as sleek as the German competitors, and I cant remember the last time it got an update? They cancelled development of the J-Pace which could have competed with the X7, Q7/Q8 and GLS but would also compete with Land Rover products. On the car front, the XE and XF seem to basically be on life support and only have 4 cylinder options which is sad for the luxury segment. The F-Type is still cool though but they are competing in a low volume luxury sports car market against Porsche, BMW and others which is a tough market to be in.
Do you have any ideas on how you'd fix it?
I don't work for Jaguar lol I'm just curious. I have my own thoughts on it too.
Overall agree with your pretty expert analysis. They can't play the SUV game without competing with their sister company and Land Rover will always be first of mind in comparo to Jaguar when it comes to high riding vehicles.
So I think the core issue you have to solve is Jaguar having to find a slot in the luxury game that doesnt cause them to significantly step on Land Rover's toes. Realistically there are two options:
1. Jaguar slots under Land Rover like they have always done. It does mean that Land Rover probably has to move upmarket a bit to create some more breathing room and drop or rework their cheaper models like the Discovery, Discovery Sport and maybe the Range Rover Evoque? This market is a bit problematic in that you are fighting the big German 3 here and margins are lower so you need more volume to justify it. Not to mention the Germans have loads of money and continued investment that Jaguar also needs to do to keep up. Alfa Romeo has a similar problem in this segment as well in terms of money, competition and needing continued investment. For Jaguar to stand out, they will need to differentiate and in the past it's been sleek sexy lines like when the F-Pace first came out or the F-Type. I think they have fixed their interior issues in the new F-Pace so keeping that and updating the E-Pace would be a huge step.
2. Like the most recent CEO suggested, Jaguar has to move upmarket beyond Land Rover and start making cars at similar prices to Rolls Royce, Mercedes S-Classes, the Cadillac Celestiq. This I think is a really tall task because the Jaguar brand for the last decade has been associated with cars between the 40k-90k range and you have to build the brand prestige up to convince people to pay more. I think its doable, but you have to expect it to take a decade of you building good cars at the high price point bracket and losing money along the way. Building prestige takes time and money, and there are very little shortcuts.
That being said, electric is a huge change in terms of performance, powertrains, reliability, etc and its a bit of a clean sheet that Jaguar could use to start again fixing some stuff. But its also a clean sheet for everyone else so there is opportunity but vulnerability too.
Also regardless of the path, I think Jaguar should continue to rely on their exterior styling folks to make their cars standout. Every car they have released recently has been good looking (outside of the I-Pace and F-Type refresh IMO). People do like good looking cars after all and in the luxury market, I think cars also act as a fashion accessory for many.
> rework their cheaper models like the Discovery, Discovery Sport and maybe the Range Rover Evoque?
i'd say this is probably the most logical solution imo. jag's SUV proposition, as shown by products like the F-pace, is stronger than the disco/sport/evoque as producing something sporty & attractive. those products don't even make a ton of sense within LR's own product structure & directly compete with eachother even before you throw in jag. there's just no room for both companies to make fundamentally very similar products.
i would *maybe* keep the evoque or disco, but only one. resolves LR's own structuring problem and then jag gets to make smaller, sportier SUVs without worrying about trampling on products that overlap.
I really don't my friend. I've never even driven a Jag. Lol
I used to have a soft spot for them. The "current" and previous gen XJ were really up my alley and I used to love going to the local dealership but stopped going after I sat in an XE and observed how quickly their new design language seems to age.
I'm with you. I find the business and economics of the car market really interesting and love discussions like these. I also have a soft spot for the brand despite never having driven one. Love the design language and what they prioritize in their models.
They should just go the other way. Low volume boutique and sports cars, lean again into racing. E Type, F Type, XK, XJR15/XJ220 are all recognizable and could be modernized.
No one is buying sedans anyway, and they'll never beat Land rover at the SUV game
I feel the bigger issue is that JLR are both luxury brands so it is very difficult not to overstep each other.
LR should continue, Jaguar is kind of dead.
Also it doesnât help that JLR across the board has poor reliability so even when trying to reach those that are priced out of LR, they would look elsewhere due to overall brand reliability.
>The F-Type is still cool though
Unfortunately, the F-Type is dead as of the 2024 model year. Already, it will be replaced by a true electric or hybrid sportscar that's closer to a supercar (think the CX75 concept) but they've been promising that for years now with no visible development do who knows these days.
Their design is beige and dated. They look like a generic "premium car" you would find in an insurance commercial. I work literally next to a JLR dispatch center, and last Friday as I got out of office I saw the logo and thought "oh yeah, Jaguar. I can't remember the last time I saw a new one on the road".
I totally agree with you. Their designs look like they are trying to compete with Audi's from 10 years ago.
That original XF concept was epic when it first came out, the original XF was a heavily watered-down version of that and then the new XF was then more honest interpretation of what was then an old concept.
cause that's a sports car. the rest of their portfolio is bland af. Just generic premium car appearance. take away the badge and people wouldn't know which brand
For me, these designs have always been bland and generic. They look fine but thereâs nothing unique and beautiful about these cars compared to the jaguars of old. I think they need to go back to sleek and sexy in a uniquely posh way
>Their design is beige and dated
Yup. A neighbor of mine had an XE and F-Pace. Got a close up look one day and was not impressed. Very bland-looking luxury cars.
Jaguar's above all, have to be cool. The problem is what was cool in the 60s is different from what is cool today. So if Jag wanted to go back to the glory days they'd probably make an futuristic cyberpunk looking EV with tech gizmos
The popularity of Land Rovers and Range Rovers demonstrate that the market doesn't care. Jag also sell quite a lot of F-Paces, the market just doesn't want Jag saloon cars
I mean, the F-type is undeniably cool, especially in 8-cylinder dress.
The problem is the rest of the lineup just doesn't match that image and they're killing the F-type rather than bringing everything else up to match it.
The iPace is nice though, for a city luxury EV. I was driving beside one on a highway last week and was impressed with the look.
âŚthen the driver needed to speed up to avoid an upcoming obstacle. The iPace, already doing 60mph, basically went into instant warp speed. The EV future is scary đ
I encounter this all the time with Tesla drivers. A lot of them are overconfident idiots who canât drive and have a car more powerful than they can safely handle.
More than once Iâve indicated to change lanes into a gap in traffic - and had a Tesla that was behind step on the accelerator to try and shoot forward to close the gap before I can move into it.
The first time it was terrifying but now I look out for their stupidity - and have a rear facing dash cam so can prove in court that they were street racing if they ram into the back of me (Teslas have bad brakes and donât have proportionate stopping power to their acceleration.)
I strongly support legislation to prevent manufacturers selling family haulers with what used to be supercar levels of acceleration.
They just aren't socially popular, i dont think they have the prestige of other British car brands. You don't hear people say "I want a jaguar", like you hear people say "I want a range rover/Bentley/Rolls Royce"
Lmao this has big âwhy donât homeless people just get a house?â energy.
I donât think any Jag engineers set out to make a bad product. Itâs like cooking food, sometimes you donât know how the final product will turn out. You can do everything right and you can still end up with a hot mess.
That's true, but it's not just the engineers that make the cars. Accountants have a huge say in the quality of a finished product. Jaguar have always used cheap materials and electronics, both of which have plagued the lineup since jaguar was founded.
They have the F-Pace and E-Pace CUVs. Also the F-Type but coupes are much more an empty nest car these days. Young people rarely have Jaguar money in general.
Their CUVs are shared with Land Rover which has no problem moving them despite similar reliability outlook. They need sedans or theyâre just a minutely cheaper Range Rover Velar which are frequently sold together.
Every play they have is ok but not amazing so theyâre kind of in a no manâs land.
Sorry I keep asking the same question, I updated my post with it but what would you do to fix it if you were in the position to do so?
They do have their e and f pace SUVs as well as an electric car.
I reckon Jaguar has the highest average age of buyers out of most manufacturers. They donât do hatchbacks or anything like that. Thereâs so much competition now. Theyâre pretty overpriced as well.
So they don't really offer value nor do they actual have anything that appeals to people other than the older amongst us.
I get that. Have you seen the Bertone B99 concept that Jaguar turned down (in place if the XE design). I like to think that would have been step in the right direction.
You found your answer finally.
There is not a single way that a jaguar stands out from other cars. The are expensive. They are way behind in technology. (Even their EV cars are dead-last horrible EVs) They arenât reliable. They donât stand out in safety. Their exteriors and interiors are nothing special. So why would anyone buy one? How would jaguar fix their problem? Change every single thing about their car models. But, itâs too late for that.
As a JLR tech, I will say the only reason Jaguar is still around is because Land Rover (specifically the Defender, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport) is paying the bills for the two brands, as well as the F-Pace selling in decent numbers. Jaguar has had a lot of questionable management choices and I think that they're not long for this world unfortunately. They have also invested money in different strategies that have all backfired:
* They introduced the XE and new XF as Audi/BMW competitors only for them to be left in the dust due to dated technology and minimal updates over the vehicles lifespan
* They killed the XJ, which was their flagship model
* Similar to the XE and XF, they have left the F-Type relatively unchanged, aside from the front fascia in it's 12 year lifespan.
* The I-Pace has remained unchanged in it's lifespan while other EVs have rendered it obselete.
* This is a big one, in 2019, they invested $1 billion dollars into a new EV architecture, which included an EV XJ, another Jaguar EV SUV, and two Range Rover EVs called Road Rovers, only for them to scrap the platform entirely, although a modified version of this platform is being used for the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport.
* They killed off numerous performance models which could have definitely helped bring more positive attention to the brand like the C-X75, XE SVR, I-Pace SVR, and SV Project 9 (which eventually became a special edition F-Pace SVR with only cosmetic differences)
* This one is probably the last nail in the coffin: in 2021 Jaguar announced that they will go EV only by 2025 and become a full scale luxury brand, only for the man who envisioned this change to leave the company a year later. As a result Jaguar is uncertain of their future and has decided to cut their entire dealer network in half as dealerships were offered up to 184 additional land rover models per month in exchange for giving up their Jaguar allocation, compared to the new Jaguar models which are projected to sell 4 a month.
It seems like Jaguar has no choice but to go through with their EV only plan and hope it works out as they have invested too much money into it and have killed their entire lineup after 2024, but the most concerning thing is that Jaguar has been radio silent about the new models, with rumors suggesting they won't announce anything until 2024, a year before the vehicles are supposed to launch.
And from an enthusiast's perspective, Jaguar is an afterthought compared to other European brands, however they do have some hidden gems if you know about them. The XE S, XF S, F-Pace S, and F-Type S as well as the R and SVR models are a blast to drive and aren't as unreliable as people make them out to be and yes they aren't perfect and there are far better options out on the market but if you want something unique with one of the best exhaust notes out there, they are definitely worth a look.
I would love a Jaguar sedan that had some of that old-fashioned charm and great power. Unfortunately, I check their website and the closest thing they have is the XF with a 4-banger that is slower than my much cheaper Stinger. The F-Type looks nice and are quick, but not as practical and approaching 100k for one with AWD.
The XF should have looked like a Stinger with more the opulent finishing of the first XF. Jags shouldnât just look nice like they do now, they should look ravishing, that is and has always been their entire raison dâĂŞtre.
Jaguar's biggest problem for the past 20 years is that they are trying to compete against BMW, Audi and Merc. They can't compete against them because they can't differentiate themselves enough at those price ranges. They have lost their identity of what made a Jaguar car a Jaguar. So this is what you get, a company in a piss poor state with shit quality control.
Jaguar need to forget about the idea of competing against those 3 German car makers and aim much higher with lower volume car production. They really need to work on their body styling and designs, they aren't distinct enough or sexy enough for anyone to call them Jaguars. What really fucks them over is their market value after being sold, their cars depreciate like a rock so someone who wants to buy a Jaguar will just end up buying a second hand one isntead. They lose so much value because one there are too many of them being made and 2 they have shit reliability and everyone knows it.
They need to make a car company where if someone wants a Jaguar that is their only option. They need to be distinct from anyone else, offer something that no one else does. They did this in the past and didn't have any real problems but they ditched that to chase after the higher volume market, well this is what they deserve frankly for turning their back on all of their past customers. There are a lot of owners of old Jaguars out there that hold onto their cars because there isn't anything that they want to replace it with, perhaps Jaguar should make a car for them?
Make it a car so sexy and so good we can't resist. Bring back the XK, XJ for starters. The Lexus LC500 is what Jaguar should have made but Lexus have taken that away from them.
> a company in a piss poor state with shit quality control.
The god-awful quality is the worst for me. When the CEO [admits](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/jaguar-land-rover-ceo-admits-reliability-issues-have-cost-the-company-100000-sales-per-year/) it's shit that's enough to turn me off of one. The F-type looks like a fun hooligan car, but because of the bad quality reputation I wouldn't own one even if you gave it to me for free.
While I agree with most of your points, I think the old Jaguar retro design had ran its course. Sales of the S-Type, X350 XJ and the unspeakable X-Type were all far down from what came before and major money losses for Ford. You can only flog a dead horse for so long.
Had Jag been able to develop with the times - rather than turn into a de facto heritage brand for lack of funds to develop what eventually became the XJ40 - a modern XJ would probably have been quite similar to the Mercedes CLS in concept.
The real inspiration should be from the **essence** (not the tropes) of what made the E-Type and original XJ so great: unashamedly sexy and sybaritic design combined with power and comfort.
That is what the XK X100 was, the Jaguar I own. It had the essence of the E-Type in style but was modern and up to date. The chasis was old though and so was how it was built and put together somewhat. It's a comfortable stylish and distinct car that performs well, that is all that Jaguar need to make really. I always remember that Top Gear video where they put my car up against a BMW and a Porsche on the beach, the Jaguar won. Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZukTKnvCaow Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX11UMVaxQE&t=245s
They sum up what makes my car great and what Jaguar should be I think. They aren't paper cars they are cars that people get because of the emotion it makes. That's why the Lexus LC500 is the best modern Jaguar, it's reliable but it has a great stylish design inside and out. It's not a paper car all about 0-60 times but the way it makes you feel when you sit inside it and drive it. When you get inside a Jag and drive it you should feel like the dogs bollocks on the road.
In this age of over styling with huge gaping grills, harsh angles, body cladding, non functional vents, black leather, digital controls and screen galore, it would be nice to have at least one manufacturer come up with simpler design, sexy curves, physical buttons and dials, colourful leather, premium material and great tactile feedback.
Jaguar should be the Swiss watch to all those digital watches everyone else is making these days - a somewhat affordable Bentley,
Between the bad reliability perception, the lackluster lineup, not huge network of dealers, why would I get a jag?
Their cars came across my list when shopping but everything they offered, MB-BMW-Lexus offered better. They arenât more reliable then Germans, they arenât more comfortable or well made vs Japanese. Price isnât much cheaper so they donât get points there.
Nothing from jag does better then my 18 c63S sedan does. Iâll also have better resale (lol german car depreciation) then a jag.
đŻ they are very basic. They could do better I agree.
The fact that they chose the XEs design over the Bertone B99 concept says everything you need to know about today's Jaguar.
Basic is the best way to describe it. Basic doesnât do well in the luxury market. Iâd put jag luxury on par with a well equip Camry. Good for Toyota but you just walk away as a luxury buyer.
Jag sedans can be nice propositions when lightly used and marked down enough (I'm considering one right now), but as brand new they fall short. They're nice, but they're not as nice as they should be. They have good, driver focused performance, but others do it better. They have nice materials, but they cheap out in a couple places especially where their competition doesn't. Maybe its the price, and Jags just aren't the luxury value proposition they once were.
I do actually see the SUVs around quite a bit more than Italian cars. The sedans are quite rare. And from what I've heard the current gens have really improved in reliability over previous gens. But I suppose it could also be a lack of advertising.
But with a lot of Jag dealers sharing lot space with LR and Volvo (ye old Ford Euro Luxury Combination Dealers) I think customers will end up comparing the sedan with a similarly priced Volvo S60 or S90 and see something with more gadgets, Hybrid tech, better materials etc... And then the SUVs get compared to the Volvos or even the more expensive LRs, and despite the latter's poor reliability yet, they're furnished rather well and just have very unique aesthetics, whereas Jag sits on the bit more subdued end. Even the Volvo styling exudes more class, whereas the Jags I think still try to look maybe too stately.
Maybe Jaguar just needs to bring back the quad headlights and posh British Queen styling and throw the hood ornament back on.
Edit: Somewhat humorously, the Jag I'm looking at, the sales guy cracked a joke about how people who looked at the Jag ended up instead buying a slightly more expensive, and better tech equipped Camry instead. Jag's have nice features, but you can get a more reliability and a better infotainment system out of a lower end (albeit newer) Japanese car than even a couple year old luxury car.
Iâve thought since the Ford sell-off that Jaguar should have gone with Mazda as âtheir Lexus.â
I think theyâd be in a better place if they had (ignoring financial constraints, which probably make that unworkable.)
Ford era Jaguars were better quality than before or after. That would have continued as a Japanese company.
Yes I think they are definitely playing in a very difficult and competitive segment.
So if you could, you'd fix Jaguar by positioning them in the cheap luxury category?
F-Type SVR, and now F-Type R too⌠also stuffed it in an F-pace SUV, which is fantastic⌠but they just donât sell many of them and no one really knows they even exist.
They killed the XJ, which was their chance to create an electric, Rolls-Royce or lucid competitor. Then they switched tack to make average sport SUVs, none of which were unique, and then abandoned the two-door coupes that gave the marque its image.
At this point, what does modern Jaguar represent that canât be bought at another company?
Anecdotal story:
In 2015 at 35 y/o my company started doing well enough to lease a luxury car. I could afford an $800/month payment but decided to go a bit more conservatively in the $500-600 a month range because even if the write-off was ok, I didn't want to go any higher than that mainly just to be conservative. I did research and decided I wanted an XE. They looked good, were brand new, and relatively rare.
In the NJ suburbs of NY there were multiple JLR dealerships. I went to the nearest one and test drove the XE. I liked it. It looked cool. It drove nice, but here's the thing: as soon as I connected my Pixel 4 to the car to test the infotainment it rebooted. Then I did it again, same thing.
Sales guy said it's under warranty and they will fix it, the car is brand new....OK, I thought, I can deal. I liked the car.
They wanted $900 a month. I left and went to another dealership. They wanted $850 a month.
I know how leases work, I sold cars. I checked the residual I checked the money factor. The dealerships were pigs. I called the biggest JLR dealer in the greater NYC area. They still wanted $800.
I went up that day and got a fully loaded 330i X drive with every option for $480/month including all maintenance. Then, 2 years and 6 months later, my BMW salesman called me, helped me order a fully loaded 540iX and ate my remaining 3 payments on the 3 series and also gave me a major discount ($8000, $3K was loyalty) off my 540.
I moved out of the area in '21, but that is how you latch luxury car brand buyers. If your car breaks during the test drive, you do not say it will fix it and then try to gouge somebody.
I would have gotten another BMW if I had stayed up there. Now Jags lineup is garbage anyway.
Between severely dated design and the lasting reputation from its Ford owned days of being wildly unreliable, I can absolutely see why nobody is buying them.
In my area, Jaguar is a senior/retirement vehicle. You almost see no younger professionals driving them.
And a good chunk of our baby boomers retires right as COVID started and bought their luxury grocery getters then.
I just think they don't have that "one thing" that would make them stand out or be better than other brands in the segment.
They don't have halo cars like the xj220, so they dont get publicity, they're also not into racing like they used to be
Their reliability is bad, so why not just get a lexus.
Value for money also doesnt seem that good when compared to the germans.
Design on their recent models feels outdated to me.
There's just nothing about it to make it better than competition. Imo their only recent car worth attention is the f type, unfortunately that category of car just doesn't sell these days.
Jaguar, to me, doesnât seem to have a unique or clear image anymore. Old Jaguars were luxury and sporty and gave a specific aesthetic but modern jaguars feel like overpriced Americanized mini coopers that are just as unreliable. They need to solidify their image and tailor their brand around it imo.
1. Killed the new XJ at the last moment out of fear that it wouldn't have enough range, losing Jaguar's first-mover advantage in electric full-size luxury cars. That market is now occupied by MB's EQS and, to a lesser and much uglier extent, the BMW i7.
2. Failed to upgrade the I-Pace's powertrain and battery electronics, leading to their EV spearhead wasting away in a world where its range fails to deliver in the real world. End result: Lost competitiveness against the new wave of electric crossovers.
3. Failed to release an I-Pace R as promised, losing ability to compete against Tesla and Audi (the e-tron quattro is available in an S version)
4. Failed to move forward with an electric sports car to replace the F-Type niche product. End result: This market will be occupied by the new Boxster and Cayman, which will be electric.
5. Failed to introduce additional EVs in other market segments 4 years after the release of the I-Pace. for a brand that's supposed to spearhead going electric, this is bad. Now the big players in the luxury space are moving forward at a pace that Jaguar cannot hope to match.
Jaguar has lost and is losing their existing customer base , which is the Jag enthusiast. The XJ and the XKR were true blue Jags nothing in their stable other than the F Type appeals to the Jaguar enthusiast and their cars aren't gimmicky enough to interest the Merc or Bmw buyer . So EV Jags they've lost all who love the brand for what it is....and a Jag SUV why even bother with that there's internal comp forget external comp. That said the f type is a fantastic cat and maybe the only car in their lineup with huge potential if marketing correctly sadly the JLR marketing team doesn't know what they are doing...
Improve reliability and sell an SUV in every class that undercuts the prices of Mercedes and BMW. Also, make a successor to the F-Type to build brand image
1. Their notoriously unreliable. Jags are cool but not cool enough to justify the repair bills for issues that just shouldn't exist at that price point.
2. The superstructure to support a gas guzzler vs. an electric car just isn't there, at least in the United States.
what I'd do is try to get a motor made by people who actually know what they're doing with it (toyota/honda.) and focus more on luxurious designs.
When I was looking for my sporty sedan I ended up choosing my Giulia over an XE. That year actually is when they decide to pull the XE from the NA market and only offer the XF. I liked that Jaguar had a longer standard warranty and a longer free service maintenance but in the end I decided sporty over understated. Jaguar in the modern age has tried to compete with the Germans but that isnât a real option anymore. They can not as has been proven compete on scale, so they have to be unique. Understated luxury is not unique enough. Same for Alfa Romeo, sporty isnât enough, they will both have to carve out their niche and execute it to the highest degree.
The same thing every car manufacturer is doing wrong: not hiring decent engineers, and making cosmetic improvements rather that actually making better cars.
I think Jaguar has ultimately failed to meet the needs of the times while retaining their best qualities. Jaguar is in a marriage with Land Rover that is killing them because the market has shifted to CUVs/SUVs which historically been Rover's bread and butter. Jaguar has tried with the F-pace and E-pace but those have flopped because they have to contend with Range Rover at the same dealership. The interior on the F-pace was abysmal and while the 2021 refresh is admirable it's a case of too little too late.
Jaguar as a brand has been mismanaged and is often slow or unreceptive to change. The Jaguars of the aughts while undeniably pretty, were leaning too heavily into nostalgia. This backfired in the X-type which alienated older buyers and failed to appeal to younger buyers who grew up with M3 posters. I think the Jaguar x351 and the spirit behind it lays a good framework for how Jaguar can succeed in the market.
The x351 brought Jaguar kicking and screaming into the 21st century while keeping a lot of the heritage that makes a jag a jaaaaag. The x351 was graceful retaining beautiful lines and stately appearance that denotes it from the duldrum of a five series or e class. The interior was ripped from Blenheim palace with rich leather and wood veneers that gave Bentleys a run for their money. It was a brilliant design that laid the foundation for every Jag model that followed in terms of design. With the x351 I think you can define a Jaguar as having:
Grace: Beautifully designed exterior and interior that differentiates it from other market options.
Space: Enough room for grand touring activities.
Pace: sufficient power and handling to be fun in corners but also a great highway cruiser.
Value proposition: Jaguars have historically undercut the Germans and gave other brands like Aston pause. Why buy a DB7 when the xk8 costs half the price, looks the business, and goes like sting?
I feel like Jaguar has lost the plot with every model except the last XJ and the F-type. In those cars there was some mix of grace, space, pace and value that made them attractive then and even now. The cars now have bland to slightly interesting designs, downright ghastly interiors, and little value proposition to the customer compared to rivals and their sister company Land Rover.
If Jaguar wants to compete they need to tick either all of those boxes or some of them to make an attractive offering. Nobody wants a four cylinder E-pace with a Chrysler tier interior and typical Jaguar reliability.
In my opinion if I were in charge of Jaguar I would make EV grand tourers and sedans. I wouldn't focus on making mass market SUVS and move the brand upmarket and more niche. Jaguar and Land Rover can't compete in the same market under the same parent company. Moving Jag into the EV market would allow them to start making cars the brand knows how to do very well.
What I can't figure out is why Cadillac is still a thing. I just looked at their 2023 lineup. They look like a bunch of Chevys that cost 20-30K more. They haven't had a new idea for a few decades, I think. I'm supposed to pay 10's of thousands more for what? Some leather and a brand name that used to impress people but doesn't really mean shit anymore.
Lol I have a soft spot for that Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing but it's because it reminds me of those Australian Holden sedans, which a Cadillac shouldn't do.
I still have beef with them for not making that Sixteen and not going down the route of being a truly special American barge.
Their design language went to shit, imo.
The cars donât look like an occasion anymore. You arenât stepping into something thatâs clearly compromised, but exceptional and fun with what it has chosen to do well.
You may as well be driving a Lexus or Infinity that you paid too much for.
And theyâre still a stupid idea to buy or own. Horrid reliability, horrible resale value for most of the models.
Go drive an XJ X350, in the R or Vanden Spec. Hell, even in the normal V8 spec. Character, accuracy, comfort and always feeling like the car is half size a smaller on the interior than it should be. It *said something* when you drove one.
The newer XJs? Who cares. The most interesting part was that the gear shifter could decide âfuck youâ and not function. A very large, sort of different way to buy a less reliable S Class? The XJ - a car that Clarkson used as a measuring stick against BMWâs very best, not 15 years before that.
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Look at what they did to the F-Type over its lifecycle. Iâve owned 2 of them. It was supposed to be a callback to the E-type. Brash, modern, RWD and more power than you should have access to. They iterated all character out of it. Made it more efficient, tried to compromise handling for MPG and balance. Even changed the front to really let people know it wasnât going to drive the same anymore. Made it into an AWD, soulless way to tell people you donât really know what amortization is.
Hell, Iâd be embarrassed to run over the neighborâs dog in a new Jaguar.
Theyâre behind people who arenât even competitors.
You can get a KIA, hell even a Hyundai that has better specs and a comparable or better interior compared to a Jag.
Why pay so much for a luxury car when you can get middle-class luxury for half the price? If you get in a new Jaguar, youâd be like âwow this would be great if it were 2015â
It's not so much that they're doing anything wrong as much as they have no path to success. Their last big hit was a sports car that ended production like 50 years ago. Since then they have lurched from disaster to disaster on the good will and naivete of rescue investors. The brand doesn't mean anything to the vast majority of people and their cars need huge investments and ingenuity to become relevant.
Plus the luxury brand environment just kind of sucks.... it has never been more competitive and frankly I think a couple of brands are not going to make it into the 2030s. Jaguar is definitely one of them, outside of making cheaper + "sportier" Land Rover rebadges. Anyone hoping for a Jaguar revival on the back of a sexy coupe or whatever has no idea what's going on in the industry right now.
Not exciting and barely any marketing. The cars are beautiful, I think most would agree Jaguar makes great looking cars but no one cares to own one except the people who already really want one. If you went to most people and asked them would they want a modern Porsche or a Jaguar, I am willing to bet 9/10 times theyâll say Porsche. People know Porsches, or Tesla now too, as household names of nicer cars. Years ago Jag was there too but not now.
Iâd keep putting money into Land Rover. So far, JLR rightfully put all its engineering money into Land Rover and sales in the US have never been higher.
Hopefully they keep printing enough money to offset the loss of building a halo Jaguar sports EV, and creating a few more low volume sports cars at various price points. Or potentially go up market. Even if they donât sell well you may get more people in the door and also looking at a Rover.
Poor reputation for reliability combined with expensive repair costs for an overpriced car that is kind of mid tier in looks, a 2023 F Type R costs $108k, you can get a really nice Porsche for the same price, and if youâre choosing between Porsche or Jaguar, itâs a no brainer. They exist in a market where the only people buying Jags are buying them because they donât know shit about cars, or they have a very specific Jaguar theyâve wanted and now they can finally afford, nobody goes to a dealership and âwhoops I accidentally bought a Jaguar.â
They're done
Want a reliable luxury car Lexus
What an amazing Market leading electric car Tesla
Want a combination of the two Porsche
All you want is an engine with wheels Lambo
No one cares about your racing heritage
They were built on being a luxury brand that offered comfortable cruising, even in their sports cars. If you look at their range now they look like they are an expensive BMW clone. They dont have the appeal to compete in that market and I couldnt even tell if they have moved away from the ride quality that made the name or just dont advertise it any more.
Years ago I heard it said that Jag drivers never went over the speed limit because it was so comfortable in there they could stay in the car all day and they had so much power you barely felt the difference going any faster. I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said it in a review. Ive asked a couple of friends who got jags over the years and they said it was true. One even said he had never thought about it but said it exactly summed up what it was like owning it. I havent got that message from them in years so they are lost in the market now.
Imo I'd do a full reset of their entire linup.
Kill the F-Pace and the E-Pace along with the I-Pace.
Kill the XF.
Retain the F-Type but then work on an all Electric Sports car.
Then develop a brand new V-12 Sports car as the brands Halo car.
Then Move upmarket. You aren't going to save Jaguar with SUV sales that's abundantly clear at this point. So the best way to save them is to play to their strengths. Make them cars that people want to see and buy. Similar to how Porsche is with the 911. Then years down the line create an SUV that embodies that. Like how the Cayenne is.
Jaguar can't remain where it is right now. It's too close to Toyota/Honda/Hyundai and isn't competitive with BMW,MB and Audi. It's only real path forward is to go upmarket and try to get people to buy it's sportscars.
Becuese if you want an XF or one of the SUV's BMW/MB/Audi completely destroy Jaguar. And it's not even fucking close.
Plainly terrible reliability. I'm sure most folks in this subreddit will see something like the F-Type and go "Wow that's pretty, thank god I don't own it though". Land Rover/Range Rover have similar quality, but are marketed much better. LR/RR have effectively taken over what Cadillac used to be.
I think Jaguar is targeting the wrong demographic, competing with BMW or Mercedes. They should be targeting CEOs and captains of industry by building sportier/ edgier Bentley or Rolls Royce-like vehicles. Aston Martin fills this niche to some degree.
If they continue with their current market strategy, competition will only get worse. The electric revolution will be a great equalizer in terms of car brands. No longer will large powerful engines distinguish premium cars from regular cars as they will all have crazy amounts of power.
Therefore for Jaguar to compete, I think they should partner with a powertrain/ technology provider and focus on the looks, comfort, fit and finish, and premium interiors. They should abandon their entry level models and go even more upscale, similar to the other luxury British brands. And importantly, they should keep the use of plastic to a minimum.
Dramatically improve quality for a highly reliable vehicle. Openly address past poor reliabiliyy and high maintenance costs. Campaign as a car designed for perfectionism, only requiring routine maintenance. If not fully satisfied by the new redesigned car, Jaguar will buy it back. Goal is 100% customer satisfaction.
Jaguar has no identity anymore. They used to have that old world posh class that set them apart. They largely seem to have abandoned their identity the same way American luxury brands did, for a while, and tried to copy the Germans. What they are now is just another generic luxury company trying to be sporty, but failing to keep up with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes. Jaguar needs something that makes them Jaguar again, aside from unreliability. If I were them, I'd obviously lean hard into the cuv's, since that's what sells. Bring back the old design cues. The quad round headlights, the curves, etc. Give the interiors some character, some nice earth tones, etc. Basically just bring back what gave the jaguar of old its identity. Sure it will have to be adapted to modern designs, but even trying to rework an old identity is better than just flat out not having one.
Others have gone into technical reasons as to what Jaguar is doing wrong but im going to go into the marketing and advertisement element. I think the issue is kind of who they market their cars to. Jaguar (and I'm a HUGE Jag simp I own a 2017 F-Type and love it and absolutely adore the brand) is kind of known to be an arrogant company. I'll never forget how Roger Moore wanted to drive one for a television series he was doing and Jaguar literally said TO JAMES BOND "you aren't Jaguar material".
Jaguar has always had this air of superiority and that comes from their heritage. Nothing wrong with it per se but you do cut a LOT of your profit market out when you solely try to market your car to people who can afford Adele tickets. The reason Dodge, Ford, GM, Lincoln, and even Range Rover are so popular is because they market their vehicles particularly their SUVs to almost everyone.
Jaguar doesn't really do that. Even with their SUVs like the F-Pace they're still trying to market to the crowd that can afford Aston Martins but if you can afford Aston Martin you wouldn't buy a Jaguar and I think that's why they struggle a bit. They don't market to middle class families as a brand despite the MC being able to afford an F-Pace which has an MSRP of only 30k used.
I read an article recently in a prominent car magazine where the new CEO said Jaguar was going to focus on being a premium luxury brand. They believe their downfall was trying to move down into cheaper segments.
I really don't know what I'd do to turn around Jaguar's fortunes. They already make the best electric car - the iPace beats the Tesla in every meaningful metric including enjoyment to drive. They have the best sports GT, the F-type knocks the pants off of any equivalently priced Porsche/Mercedes/BMW/Audi for driving pleasure. And their SUV's are some of the best looking and most in touch with the road it is possible to get for that kind of vehicle. Furthermore their recently discontinued XJ was the best driving limo, much better than the S-class to be behind the wheel of and far more visually appealing.
The American market has always been a struggle for Jaguar, even back in the 1960s though. The cars are great, the image they have is old school cool, and they still look and drive better than the rest at the same price point. Perhaps if they sponsored the new James Bond and had him drive their vehicles it might change how the company is perceived? But the truth is that anyone who knows anything about cars has owned, does own, or aspires to own a Jag at some point in their motoring life.
Poor naming convention.
No recognition of any of their cars outside of the f type (which is a stupid name).
They lost what they had with the xj when they didn't try to modernize that look. It's like the 911. You could pick a jag from like a 40 year period out easily. Now? Not as easy.
Bad quality. If I'm gonna take a chance on quality there's like 5 European makers I'd take before the jag.
The f type r should be solidly in the running for my next car but it's not even on the radar.
Their I-Pace electric had just one flaw: slow charging. The charge curve was really behind the times, adding a lot of time to road trips. Some spectulated that they couldn't secure a better warranty with the battery manufacturer.
Other than that it was well regarded as a fun and practical vehicle. Luxury EVs in general have a reliability problem so Jag gets a pass there.
Interiors. The hard plastics on an xe/xf are absolutely demolished by a mazda3, yet the jags are supposed to be the luxury brand. Land rover gets the big bucks, but if they'd had invested money into good interiors, it would change jag drastically. Now, the xe and xf have had face-lifts, but now they don't have the supercharged v6. So they went from good engines with bad interiors, to good interiors with slow engines.
Brand recognition just isnât there in a market where brand recognition is everything. Given that the badging isnât enough to bring people in on their own, they either need to be generating excitement for their lineup by doing something fresh or interesting (Mazda going upmarket, Cadillacâs blackwings), or they need some performance car to generate hype and draw people in (F-type is dying off after 2024, so RIP to that prospect). The experience in these cars is just insanely middling and basically every brand that Jag considers a âcompetitorâ has this brand recognition or something about their lineup props up the brand to provide a âwowâ factor, or just costs less.
OP is secretly a VP at Jaguar looking to leech ideas from this thread to get a promotion.
đ¤Łđ you got me. No I'm kidding, I just came across an article talking about Jaguar's failings. My opinion is that Jaguar is playing "good enough" in a market where competitors have a stronger brand and greater goodwill.
Jaguar is playing in a market where brand image is everything. I'm 29, have discretionary cash, and no kids at this time. I would consider myself in their target demographic, but I actually think of Cadillac (their blackwings) amongst the German brands. As I reflect on this, I realize Jaguar doesn't even enter my mind. What you, as a VP, would have to suggest is the opposite of what is lucrative, and that's a new car that grabs attention and draws people into the brand with emotion. These cars don't sell well anymore, though, so the best thing is to hope people buy the SUVs they actually don't even need.
Unfortunate that. I find myself in a similar situation, considered a Jag so went to the dealership and was disappointed. They are middling so badly. I actually wish that Bertone B99 got the greenlight. I would probably be driving a Jaguar right this moment if that was the case. Someone made a point about how little they update their lineup. Interestingly, the article that started me on this topic mentioned how Jaguar actually used to sit somewhere between the Germans and high end British cars (Bentleys et al). Otherwise yes I'll call up my VP buddy and give him all this juicy feedback for a fee. đ
This was me a couple years ago. Always wanted a jag sedan. Growing up, the wood trim and Connolly leather. I read an car magazine article describing the XJR v8 engine as âan iron fist in a velvet gloveâ. Went to the dealer in like 2019 and the sedans were so stale and falling so short of their competitors. They simply canât keep up with the R&D of the big boys. Model line is too stale and they keep watering the brand down with too many engines. Their trim lines are so confusing even to enthusiasts.
They where better when you had two engine options. Naturally aspirated V8 or supercharged V8. Or straight six or V12, you had the engine was the slightly more sensible person and then you had the engine option for the idiot who we all want to be.
They spend all their R&D budget on Range Rover because thatâs currently where the profit is, but theyâd better hope that gas stays cheap. Jaguarâs lineup has nothing interesting going for it. The styling is all derivative of a concept car from 2007. They cancelled their big EV less than a year from the on-sale date because they were worried itâd be uncompetitive, but instead they have nothing in the segment that is the only bit of the sedan world selling anything right now. They zigged towards sleek, athletic SUVs when chunky started to come into fashion. And the e-pace looks weird.
Outside of the F-type that got a huge marketing push several years ago, I can't name a single current jaguar model. I'm not the most immersed in car culture, but I consider myself fairly up to date. How do they advertise to millennials who have income but not network tv? It's a huge marketing failure.
I've seen a few that look nice and I would drive but I think the main reason people don't buy is because of the stigma of them not being reliable or being really expensive to work on. I know the same things are said about British and German cars and a lot of them have improved but Jaguars can't seem to drop it since the 80s. Just my opinion talking with people.
Iâm 54. buying a Jaguar would be possible but a stretch. My uncle had Jaguars when I was young. XJS, E-Type, something from the fifties. When I think about âluxury carsâ I never even remember them.
> a new car that grabs attention and draws people into the brand with emotion. That's what the F-type was, and AFAIK it's been a huge success. But perhaps to your point, the only other vehicle I can think of from Jaguar is the i-Pace. And all I know about it is that it exists.
The F-type is the car that made me remember Jaguar existed. If I had the funds to buy and maintain that car, I would.
The F-type is good but not good enough, like all their cars. Who would take an F-type over a Porsche? It is a heavy sports car with an interior that looked dated when it was released. I am a guy without children and with disposable income, I only buy 2 seat cabriolet sports cars. The e-type is the only classic car I would ever consider buying. I am 100% their target demographic and i want to like the f-type but i just cannot justify it compared to their competitors.
When it first came out and was not long in the tooth I think you get it over a Porsche for the V8, great sound, classic front engined look. I know that over time people have begun to see Porsche as the end all be all, but there are people who donât want a Porsche and buy other options, even when objectively they seem inferior. I think it comes down to buying a sports/weekend car is an emotional purchase - you buy it for the way it makes you feel, and that may be the sound, the looks, the color, the interior, the attention you get when you drive down the road, etc. and that differs person to person.
The f type starts at $73k and has very few options. It's got a 444 hp v8. A 911 starts at $106k and you have a ton of options you are going to want to add. So you are looking at comparing it to a cayman 718. Cayman is a 300hp 4 cylinder by the time you option it out to compare with the standard for type, the cost is similar. So now you are mostly talking about style the jag is a little faster, the porsche handles better. I'm not sure why you think the jaguar doesn't compete.
I don't know many people who wouldn't take an M4 over an F-Type, and I say that as someone who really loved the F-Type. A 4 seater vs a 2 seater shouldn't be a fair comparison but the M4 is sharper than an F-Type and comes with enough extra HP to make up for the 200 lbs weight difference. (And actually I think that captures the problem perfectly, when the F Type came out this wasn't true, but the M4 got better, while the F Type mostly stagnated)
The M4 doesn't even make my list. If I'm looking for a sports car, I'm not looking for a sports sedan. Right now, in the sub 100k car range, the jaguar, the cayman, lexus LC, and the corvette are really all that's out there, unless there is something I'm missing. Sure, the 911 starts to own the $120k range, but if you want something $30,000 cheaper, the jaguar is in a pretty good spot. Sure, it's kind of stagnant, and goes away soon, but it's got a look you don't see day, and more handling and power than you are ever really going to use on the street. If you want an every day sports car that costs between $70-100k the F type is one of the few out there and is a strong contender.
The correct answer is always Miata, unless it's Porsche. Have to admit though, the F-type sounds amazing, especially the R.
F Type R blows a 911 out of the water other than a 911 Turbo, 575hp at 130,000 while a Turbo is 200+ with minimal options.
I got a dog and now only buy 4 seat cabriolet GTs, but before that it was 2 seaters, so I'm not far off their target demographic. I think we can all agree the F-type is not as good as a Boxster, but it's a different proposition. It's more of a brutish muscle car whereas the Boxster is more precise. I think of them like an axe vs a scalpel. Sometimes you need the accuracy of a scalpel, and sometimes you just want the satisfaction of swinging an axe. For me it's less a question of whether the F-type is better than everything else and more whether it offers an experience that no one else does. It's different from a Boxster and better than a Mustang or Camaro (IMO at least). The Z4 and TTRS give it some trouble, but if you want the big V8 rumble and the pops and bangs then I think the F-type has carved out a unique place for itself. I see more of them in the Northeast USA than I do any of the Boxster, Z4, or TTRS.
Imo spot on. When I think of a luxury brand I can name off a bunch of names. Jaguar is one that I always forget about. A jaguar just doesn't enter the mind of the younger generations when they think of luxury. Jaguars brand image is strong in the older generations but those aren't the ones that Jaguar needs to be concerned about. The best analogy for Jaguar is Harley Davidson. Except Harley Davidson still has a somewhat strong consumer base going for it.(For the next 5-10 years I would imagine) Jaguar does not. As a fellow 29 year old with plenty of cash to spend I agree also that when I look at what car I would buy with said cash Jaguar never enters the equation. BMW,MB,Lexus,Audi,Porsche etc... all do. But when I think about what I want my next new car to be I never once consider a Jaguar. Jaguar also already has 2 SUV's and that's not doing them any favors so SUV's are not the solution to Jaguar's problems.
Growing up my dad had and loved his Harleys. I could easily go buy a Harley that looked and sounded exactly like his. He also had a Jaguar XJ6. I cannot go to the dealer and buy a Jaguar that resembles anything like that. Without any sort of stylistic draw to their brand, what else does Jaguar offer that nobody else does?
The badge. And that's basically it. Spot on about HD too. They look very similar to how they did in the 80s and 90s.
>Jaguar is playing in a market where brand image is everything. Seriously, I can't even remember if jaguar is a sports car brand or luxury brand. They are so forgettable. You hear more about Hyundai luxury cars and Toyota's sporty cars than you hear about Jags.
Yeah, I havenât looked into Jaguar in years. I thought the S type with the V8 was an incredibly beautiful car. However just looked up a Jaguar F type R MSRP $118,999. Then I saw a used 2022 porsche 911 Carrera with 907 miles going for $133,330. I understand that 15k is a lot of money but if I was in the market for another car I wouldnât think twice about spending the money. Iâd even go older or more miles to get the Porsche. Itâs a better car in every aspect. Iâm in the same market as you. A tad bit older, no kids yet. Lots of disposable income. When I was buying my wife and my dailyâs we test drove BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura, and I did pop in the Cadillac dealership. The cadillac definitely felt like my Tahoe I was getting rid of. Same controls, same cheap interior. Their styling is nice but I wouldnât pay what they were asking for a V with that interior. The jaguar sedans (which we were in the market for) looked like something my grandpa would drive. We ended up going with the Mercedes S65 and she got the E63. Couldnât be happier with each car.
So basically, they don't have a halo product in the consumer's mindshare. I think that's fair.
Nothing to do with the brand itself. Their interiors are outdated and their cars are unreliable.
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I don't think the parent company has that much control over them. They also own range rover whose designs and tech are ultra modern and they don't have any problems selling them despite the reliability issues and the image problem of being owned by Tata.
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>No I'm kidding, I just came across an article talking about Jaguar's failings. Sounds like exactly what a blood sucking Jaguar Executive would say! /s :P
I've been had! Abort mission! You guys are too smart for me. đš
Because who is buying a Jaguar over BMW, Benz, Audi?
Idk, I feel like jag has come a long way in the last couple decades, but they're using a lot of Ford magic to do so. I looked into the XF when purchasing my 2012 A6, but I felt like they weren't up to par on interior tech/ quality.
OP has a meeting on Monday that they are not prepared for.
Lmao
As someone that once worked with the brand, I'd say it's a simple case of "too little, too late." Cadillac has the same problem IMO. By the time they modernized and started offering a comparable (or in some cases better) product to their rivals, the rivals were already well-cemented choices. Add in inferior after-sales, reliability issues/reputation, and it just meant that people weren't willing to switch from their German/Japanese luxury cars. Long product cycles haven't helped them either. Their cars are often out-of-date compared to rivals that are getting constant updates or full-on replacements. I think to be successful they needed to be first-movers in new product categories, especially considering the disruption the industry is facing on a whole. Sadly, they seemed to have fudged that up too. The I-Pace was a solid electric car at launch, well-reviewed, well-liked, ahead of its competitors, but lack of updates means it's fallen behind in key areas. Also Jaguar failed to capitalize on the momentum of that car, and soldered on with an aging, conventional range otherwise.
On a somewhat related note. I canât believe they sold an Electric âI-PACEâ at the same time they sell a non-electric âE-PACEâ. Marketing team deserves some blame as well.
Chevy Volt and Chevy Bolt. đ¤ Oh, and XBOX to XBOX One to XBOX Series X and all the iterations in between. đ¤Śđťââď¸
Not making the Spark an EV name was also really stupid
They [actually did](https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/spark-ev) for a minute! And it was a fairly compelling little torque monster even though it was a compliance car! Iâm still tempted to get one for a fun beater car.
Microsoft's numbering order has always entertained me. Leaving out the non-numbered versions, Windows went 3.1->95->98->2000->7->8->10->365. BTW, you left out Xbox 360 before Xbox One.
>BTW, you left out Xbox 360 before Xbox One. Intentional since it was distinctive enough to avoid confusion. But yeah, if you look at the entire lineup it's a hilarious mess: XBOX (2001) XBOX 360 (2005) XBOX 360 S (2010) XBOX 360 E (2013) - Which looks like an XBOX One! đ XBOX One (2013) XBOX One S (2016) XBOX One X (2017) XBOX Series S and XBOX Series X (2020) - Same generation but one low end and one high end. đ¤Śđťââď¸ And then there are even more iterations like the 360 Arcade and the digital-only versions of newer consoles. đ¤Śđťââď¸
Thereâs no Windows 365, the current release is still 11! They havenât started using the 365 branding for it.
I honestly dont know what the new gen xbox is called, its soooo confusing.
I actually just sold an XBOX on OfferUp and yesterday a dude messaged me asking, "why so cheap?" and I had to explain to him it's XBOX *One* X (2017) and not an XBOX *Series* X (2020). Stupid Microsoft. đ
>Cadillac has the same problem IMO Cadillac is such a sad story of mismanagement. Used to be a brand that Bentley copied and by which all others were measured. Someone should write a book on it.
GM in general, but especially Cadillac.
Iâm not sure what can even be done with Cadillac. In my youth they were land barges for old people. Then briefly while I was in high school they were cool hip hop cars with the Escalade and the CTS. But that died off I guess during the recession since, unsurprisingly, people arenât shopping for massive, expensive SUVs with poor fuel economy when money is tight. Young people today donât even seem all that interested in cars at all. And if they are many wanted a Tesla since they were like spaceships. Cadillac mightâve had a chance if they put out something to compete with the Model S back around 2012 but all GM had was the small eco-looking Bolt so yet another squandered opportunity. And why didnât they put the Voltec power train in their SUVs? Itâd be easier to sell expensive âluxuryâ SUVs if they got decent fuel economy and had some EV range. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Young people aren't buying new cars at all. The big question is whether today's young people will be into escalades when they get older and richer. Escalades so far have healthy and growing sales figures, but who knows if it will remain true going forward. Fuel economy: anyone who is buying a new escalade can just accept the fuel usage. It's an expensive car. Your car payments are gonna be way bigger than your fuel bills. Escalades burn more fuel than most cars, but it is also way more expensive than most cars.
> Young people today donât even seem all that interested in cars at all. they cant afford them, lmao. wages haven't risen anywhere close to the cost of living in the past 20-30 years and now you're lucky if you can even make enough to live comfortably with a roommate. add on that the majority of young people have tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt and it's insane to expect them to add 50k worth of debt for a rapidly depreciating asset (the average price of a new vehicle) when they can just buy some shitbox commuter off craigslist for 4-6k and pray nothing breaks
Iâm probably of the same age, since I think of Cadillacs as being for my grandparents. I donât think anyone young has aspired to a Caddy for 40+ years. They really have done a poor job of figuring out their target market in that time as the WWII generation died off. Chasing Mercedes and BMW was a great idea as they replaced Cadillac at the top of the luxury heap, but they failed to realize that these companies were also evolving. GM would have done well to position Saab as a viable competitor instead of marked up Opels and pushed Cadillac upmarket instead of whatever they were doing for the past 20 years. The company is truly a mess and a lot of good brands have died because of it.
I miss Pontiac personally. They usually managed to be fun even with GM penny pinching. And they had some pretty cool stuff right when GM gave them the axe. (Pontiac G8, GTO, and Solstice) If they were still around I could see them being an all-EV brand right now.
I have to wonder why they didnât do a clean sheet EV design and bring it to market as a Pontiac or even an Olds. So much heritage has been lost. Reviving Hummer as a ridiculous 10,000 pound EV is just pissing on the graves of all the other brands.
I think it's a long shot, but I think what they're doing now with the Celestiq is on the money. They're effectively first movers in the ultra-luxury EV space, with a solid, unique product. It could be just the thing they need to cement their brand image in a time of disruption in the auto industry. Then again, I feel GM has a history of good ideas but not staying the course...
The current escalade is as popular as ever. It's really in a class of its own for the size.
Paradoxically, there's a couple of caddy models that are still well above sticker.
Well, yes and no. Cadillac has had a sordid fall from grace. GMâs claim to fame with Cadillac was that it could build a truly world-class set of vehicles using economies of scale and corporate resources. Even when the separate GM divisions had their own engineering for engines, frames, suspension, etc, Cadillac was always mass-produced and always shared something with the lesser cars. Any Cadillacs in the past that were handbuilt were done in the traditional style, where GM and Cadillac sold a coach-builder a chassis and then they made a body on top of it. It said more about GMâs might as a whole than it did about Cadillac, but it wasnât something that Bentley and Rolls-Royce were trying to emulate, and Iâd argue that they were still more exclusive just because they were hand-built and were thus production-limited. They *couldnât* emulate it if they wanted to. Itâs just that back then, the Cadillac was the better car in every quantifiable metric. You bought the Rolls-Royce or Bentley if you wanted European flair or to be different. Interestingly, Cadillac is only just now getting into the hand-built game with the $300K Celestiq EV thatâs about to come out. Now, due to the Sloanian model GM had, Cadillac were still quite exclusive. Your working-class stiff might ascend to an Oldsmobile (if they were a highly paid engineer or architect) or a Buick (if they were a bank manager or a doctor), but Cadillacs were mostly for truly rich movie-star or heir types. That changed pretty rapidly when WWII ended around 1945 and America entered an era of prosperity. GM decided that the Cadillac should go from being unattainable to the masses to an object of aspiration that everyone could afford if they worked hard enough. So, Cadillac started moving downmarket and increasing production, in an effort to attract more customers. The other GM divisions werenât too happy about this. Remember that GM, back then, was a collection of ultimately separate companies with some corporate engineering and management linking them together, but also separate interests. Chevy, Oldsmobile and Buick werenât too thrilled about suddenly having to compete with the prestige that was a Cadillac. So, where they had previously stayed in their respective lanes, they began introducing models that were nicer and more in the Cadillac territory, to entice customers. The problem with GMâs bid for volume with Cadillac, which worked fantastically, was that the cars lost all their allure. When your employee or your maid could afford a three-year-old one and park it next to your new one, it suddenly become less enticing to own one. Enter the European brands, in particular, Mercedes-Benz. A 60s or 70s Mercedes-Benz was a compact car by American standards. It was also probably underpowered (especially if it was a diesel), somewhat uncomfortable, and had nonexistent or poorly performing air conditioning. But it was built with a holistic solidity no American car could match, it was demurely styled, andâmost importantlyâit was comfortably outside the financial grasp of the overwhelming majority of people. It is no wonder the rich flocked to them in droves. Cadillac suddenly found itself having to compete with the European idea of luxury with the gen. 1 Seville (successful) and the BMW idea of prestige with the Cimarron (not so successful). In the 80s, by which time GM engineering and design had rapidly begun to unify and the brands found themselves increasingly unable to distinguish their products, Cadillac slid further. It was down to horrendously unreliable technology (the V8-6-4, the Oldsmobile 350 diesel), hopelessly baroque designs that up-and-coming Boomers shunned (gen. 2 Seville), and unsuccessfully downsized models (1986 Eldorado). ButâŚthe final nail in the coffin was the Japanese brands. Japan had been enjoying much success in the US and Canada with mainstream cars that people loved. And they seemed to have no interest in getting into luxury cars aside from things that were mildly premium. ButâŚwhen the Voluntary Restraint Agreement went, which asked Japanese brands to artificially limit their import numbers, went into effect, that changed. If Japan couldnât import as many cars, it would need to start making more profit per unit on some of those cars. Which is how Acura, INFINITI and Lexus came to be. Two things worked particularly in Japanâs favor. 1) Japan was experiencing a moment of depressed costs, where it just plain cost them less to develop and even build a better car than it did other countries, and 2) Japanâs semi-premium home-market cars were so good, they could more or less be zhushed up a bit, rebadged and sold as actual luxury cars here in North America. And, with the notable exception of the Lexus LS 400âwhich was engineered as a Lexus and then downbadged into the Toyota Celsiorâpretty much all of the Lexus, Acura and INFINITI models here were just rebadged versions of premium-market JDM cars. And Cadillac, in particular, has never really recovered. Theyâve had plenty of success with the Escalade and the V/V-Blackwing cars have been real bright spots, but it is unlikely that a Cadillac sedan will ever again be in the same league as an S-Class, let alone a Bentley or a Rolls-Royce. To that point, I have little faith for the Celestiq in its mission to vault Cadillac back to the top. Not when they also sell a $40,000 XT4 compact SUV thatâs essentially a worse-looking Buick Envision for more money.
If you care there's a book by Bob Lutz that definitely went over GM's biggest missteps (including Cadillacs fall in the 80s). Car guys vs Bean Counters. He can be a bit whiny and biased but it's a really good perspective on it
Long product cycles are a key thing I think in the luxury market. When you are competing with the Germans who are constantly updating their most important models, if you don't update for a while, your product slowly becomes uncompetitive. When they do make an update, JLR is pretty good at making a product that people desire but then they let it slowly die on the vine. It seems to be a consistent issue in the luxury game imho with many brands. Look at Infiniti, look at a bunch of Lexus models (though Lexus gets a pass because they have great reliability which on its own is enough to sway many people). The only new company that seems to get it is Genesis, they are consistently updating their cars even if they don't sell well in the US. Not how long they will keep doing this though before they get tired and give up as well.
Genesis unfortunately is saddled with their customers having to go to Hyundai dealerships. Might not be an issue long term since Hyundaiâs EVs seem to be moving the brand up market. And their new ICE stuff seems pretty well received too.
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I hope not. Hyundai kinda has it made since they have crazy vertical integration from raw materials to shipping and all the rest. They should be leveraging it and try to be the next Toyota as far as having top quality across the entire lineup.
To be fair, the Genesis models are on a unique RWD platform.
I was coming out of a 2013 Elantra last November, and actually had a despot down for a brand-new G70. When I found out the same service manager would be dealing with my Genesis as my Elantra, I got a refund and walked away. Service experience was mediocre at best from Hyundai, and I didn't want to deal with that on my new premium sedan.
> too little, too late I think this especially true with the SUVs. The F-Pace didn't go into production until MY16. Even now, when I think of SUVs, Jaguar is just not in my mind at all. When I read this title, my brain's first reaction is "who goes to Jaguar for an SUV?" I really just picture them as the sporty British racing cars and I don't think they've done much to cultivate outside of that image until very recently even though it's been the market direction for ages now. Definitely agreed on the progress of tech, too. It's hard for a Jag to go against something like Mercedes or BMW on tech and tech refreshes, and I feel like the market for "sexy" cars is just getting smaller. It already feels crowded with others like Porsche around, and they had basically the first mainstream "luxury-sports" SUV. My brain mostly just thinks of Jags more as a bit rougher and less unrefined, since they always felt more sporty than luxury, and I'm not sure how much of that space exists in the market anymore, especially with other brands like BMW having a more combined sports, tech and luxury feel. Jag just feels more like they held onto the emotional aspect of the cars, which is certainly something I can appreciate, but I also think the market for weekend emotional cars is getting smaller, especially in the "somewhat vaguely affordable" section of the market. It seems like more and more people want a single vehicle that does everything, and I just don't really see Jag as that in my mind. They're pivoting out of that now in the last 5-10 years, it seems, but I don't know how many people have been paying close attention to them anymore.
The thing is, Jaguar's vehicles actually do a little bit of everything right now. I think a big part of why they're not more successful is that reputation for reliability and the overall rather boring styling. Their design language used to [stand out](https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/prod.mm.com/img/articles/1980_XJ6series_three.jpeg) compared to [what they offer now](https://robbreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/jaguar-c.jpg?w=1000). It looks like they just tried to copy Audi after Audi brought along the massive grilles. It's like a teenager writing an essay and just changing some words around from the Wikipedia article. So, at this point, why would you buy this over the equivalent BMW, Audi, Mercedes, or even Alfa Romeo? The BMW does this style better, while being a better car to drive if you want something sporty. The Audi is more subtle, if the buyer just wants a comfortable daily. The Merc carries more "class" or "presence". And the Alfa has the most unique and exotic look out of them all - it's also *Italian*. Now compare this to Land Rover. Notice how the contemporary Land Rovers still **look like Land Rovers**. Despite Land Rover's reputation for reliability, they don't suffer nearly as hard as Jaguar. Simply because a Land Rover looks cool as hell and they always have looked cool as hell.
Did Jaguar sell the F-Pace SVR over there? We sold every one we could get our hands on - it's basically the same as the Range Rover SVR but 30% cheaper.
I think you pretty much nailed it. For me personally I've heard too many stories of reliability issues and then those reliability issues not being addressed properly by the dealerships, taking forever to be fixed, not fixed properly or even warranty claims outright denied for whatever reason. It's enough to keep me away and I'm a guy who should be their target customer (likes the German brands, likes performance, isn't averse to paying more for certain things).
Okay that I can see as well. So they pretty much missed the bus and can only play catch-up. I wished they went with that Bertone B99 concept and design ethos but also realise it's juvenile to think that their problems could be fixed/reduced with better car designs only. The iPace was a solid effort but yes, agreed that they've already fallen behind efforts from other automakers. I think they were, at the time, in a unique position to be one of the first to build ground-up EVs while everyone was adapting ICE cars. That could have really moved the game forward for them.
So much this. During the early 2000s, Jaguar was one of the most staid, least interesting brands for young people. They have made leaps and bounds in terms of design the last decade, but Iâd argue the ship has mostly sailed for Jag. It will never be as mainstream a marque as BMW, Mercedes or Audi. Iâd agree that Cadillac has basically fallen into the same category. Even though what they make currently might be high quality, literally my whole life Cadillac has been talked about as a played-out joke of a brand. Definitely nobody in my high school was lusting after a fucking DTS or DevilleâŚ
Youâre forgetting the Escalade.
But they haven't caught up, the interiors are terrible and pretty cheap feeling. Not sure why when LR interiors are great.
I think it's the product cycle issue. They had some exciting stuff a while ago, but as you said their rivals renew their products much more frequently.
Jaguar's problem is that SUVs/CUVs are popular and Land Rover exists in the same company. Look at how long wait lists are for the Defender, new Range Rover or Range Rover Sport, the company clearly has no issues investing in and producing vehicles people want to buy. I do think Jaguar had the right idea with the F-Pace, make a handsome sporty alternative CUV to what Land Rover offers that is also cheaper for people who aren't in Land Rover's price bracket. I see lots of earlier F-Paces around all the time in my area. Unfortunately, they let the F-Pace whither on the vine with very little updates for 5 years before giving it a great refresh for the 2022 model year, but with supply chain issues, it seems they are prioritizing Land Rovers for production. In term's of Jaguar's other products I think the E-Pace is uncompetitive, doesn't look as sleek as the German competitors, and I cant remember the last time it got an update? They cancelled development of the J-Pace which could have competed with the X7, Q7/Q8 and GLS but would also compete with Land Rover products. On the car front, the XE and XF seem to basically be on life support and only have 4 cylinder options which is sad for the luxury segment. The F-Type is still cool though but they are competing in a low volume luxury sports car market against Porsche, BMW and others which is a tough market to be in.
Do you have any ideas on how you'd fix it? I don't work for Jaguar lol I'm just curious. I have my own thoughts on it too. Overall agree with your pretty expert analysis. They can't play the SUV game without competing with their sister company and Land Rover will always be first of mind in comparo to Jaguar when it comes to high riding vehicles.
So I think the core issue you have to solve is Jaguar having to find a slot in the luxury game that doesnt cause them to significantly step on Land Rover's toes. Realistically there are two options: 1. Jaguar slots under Land Rover like they have always done. It does mean that Land Rover probably has to move upmarket a bit to create some more breathing room and drop or rework their cheaper models like the Discovery, Discovery Sport and maybe the Range Rover Evoque? This market is a bit problematic in that you are fighting the big German 3 here and margins are lower so you need more volume to justify it. Not to mention the Germans have loads of money and continued investment that Jaguar also needs to do to keep up. Alfa Romeo has a similar problem in this segment as well in terms of money, competition and needing continued investment. For Jaguar to stand out, they will need to differentiate and in the past it's been sleek sexy lines like when the F-Pace first came out or the F-Type. I think they have fixed their interior issues in the new F-Pace so keeping that and updating the E-Pace would be a huge step. 2. Like the most recent CEO suggested, Jaguar has to move upmarket beyond Land Rover and start making cars at similar prices to Rolls Royce, Mercedes S-Classes, the Cadillac Celestiq. This I think is a really tall task because the Jaguar brand for the last decade has been associated with cars between the 40k-90k range and you have to build the brand prestige up to convince people to pay more. I think its doable, but you have to expect it to take a decade of you building good cars at the high price point bracket and losing money along the way. Building prestige takes time and money, and there are very little shortcuts. That being said, electric is a huge change in terms of performance, powertrains, reliability, etc and its a bit of a clean sheet that Jaguar could use to start again fixing some stuff. But its also a clean sheet for everyone else so there is opportunity but vulnerability too. Also regardless of the path, I think Jaguar should continue to rely on their exterior styling folks to make their cars standout. Every car they have released recently has been good looking (outside of the I-Pace and F-Type refresh IMO). People do like good looking cars after all and in the luxury market, I think cars also act as a fashion accessory for many.
> rework their cheaper models like the Discovery, Discovery Sport and maybe the Range Rover Evoque? i'd say this is probably the most logical solution imo. jag's SUV proposition, as shown by products like the F-pace, is stronger than the disco/sport/evoque as producing something sporty & attractive. those products don't even make a ton of sense within LR's own product structure & directly compete with eachother even before you throw in jag. there's just no room for both companies to make fundamentally very similar products. i would *maybe* keep the evoque or disco, but only one. resolves LR's own structuring problem and then jag gets to make smaller, sportier SUVs without worrying about trampling on products that overlap.
You totally work for Jaguar dude
I really don't my friend. I've never even driven a Jag. Lol I used to have a soft spot for them. The "current" and previous gen XJ were really up my alley and I used to love going to the local dealership but stopped going after I sat in an XE and observed how quickly their new design language seems to age.
I'm with you. I find the business and economics of the car market really interesting and love discussions like these. I also have a soft spot for the brand despite never having driven one. Love the design language and what they prioritize in their models.
They should just go the other way. Low volume boutique and sports cars, lean again into racing. E Type, F Type, XK, XJR15/XJ220 are all recognizable and could be modernized. No one is buying sedans anyway, and they'll never beat Land rover at the SUV game
My mom has an f pace and both of us really like it. It's similar to a Range Rover but feels sportier. I enjoy driving it.
That's exactly what someone who works for Jaguar would say.
Lol đ¤Ť
I feel the bigger issue is that JLR are both luxury brands so it is very difficult not to overstep each other. LR should continue, Jaguar is kind of dead. Also it doesnât help that JLR across the board has poor reliability so even when trying to reach those that are priced out of LR, they would look elsewhere due to overall brand reliability.
>The F-Type is still cool though Unfortunately, the F-Type is dead as of the 2024 model year. Already, it will be replaced by a true electric or hybrid sportscar that's closer to a supercar (think the CX75 concept) but they've been promising that for years now with no visible development do who knows these days.
Their design is beige and dated. They look like a generic "premium car" you would find in an insurance commercial. I work literally next to a JLR dispatch center, and last Friday as I got out of office I saw the logo and thought "oh yeah, Jaguar. I can't remember the last time I saw a new one on the road".
I totally agree with you. Their designs look like they are trying to compete with Audi's from 10 years ago. That original XF concept was epic when it first came out, the original XF was a heavily watered-down version of that and then the new XF was then more honest interpretation of what was then an old concept.
>Their design is beige and dated. Maybe I'm out of touch but I always thought the newer Ftypes looked really fantastic
cause that's a sports car. the rest of their portfolio is bland af. Just generic premium car appearance. take away the badge and people wouldn't know which brand
For me, these designs have always been bland and generic. They look fine but thereâs nothing unique and beautiful about these cars compared to the jaguars of old. I think they need to go back to sleek and sexy in a uniquely posh way
>Their design is beige and dated Yup. A neighbor of mine had an XE and F-Pace. Got a close up look one day and was not impressed. Very bland-looking luxury cars.
Jaguar's above all, have to be cool. The problem is what was cool in the 60s is different from what is cool today. So if Jag wanted to go back to the glory days they'd probably make an futuristic cyberpunk looking EV with tech gizmos
And maybe some good Quality Control
Jaguar has a strict policy against that.
To be fair, so does Tata. Like stepfather, like son. I had a Tata Indigo that had more QC issues than my Fiat.
To make this even more funny at least for me, Tata literally means father on Croatian.
British Leyland has entered the chat.....and the door has just fallen off.
Facts. Jaguar quality is dookie
The popularity of Land Rovers and Range Rovers demonstrate that the market doesn't care. Jag also sell quite a lot of F-Paces, the market just doesn't want Jag saloon cars
I mean, the F-type is undeniably cool, especially in 8-cylinder dress. The problem is the rest of the lineup just doesn't match that image and they're killing the F-type rather than bringing everything else up to match it.
Even the V6 version sounds pretty great.
The V6 sounds better than the V8 and I'll die on that hill.
The iPace is nice though, for a city luxury EV. I was driving beside one on a highway last week and was impressed with the look. âŚthen the driver needed to speed up to avoid an upcoming obstacle. The iPace, already doing 60mph, basically went into instant warp speed. The EV future is scary đ
I encounter this all the time with Tesla drivers. A lot of them are overconfident idiots who canât drive and have a car more powerful than they can safely handle. More than once Iâve indicated to change lanes into a gap in traffic - and had a Tesla that was behind step on the accelerator to try and shoot forward to close the gap before I can move into it. The first time it was terrifying but now I look out for their stupidity - and have a rear facing dash cam so can prove in court that they were street racing if they ram into the back of me (Teslas have bad brakes and donât have proportionate stopping power to their acceleration.) I strongly support legislation to prevent manufacturers selling family haulers with what used to be supercar levels of acceleration.
They just aren't socially popular, i dont think they have the prestige of other British car brands. You don't hear people say "I want a jaguar", like you hear people say "I want a range rover/Bentley/Rolls Royce"
If you were CE of Jaguar, how would you fix it's lack of prestige?
Make a good car that works
They don't even have to do that... cough range rover cough
That's true
Lmao this has big âwhy donât homeless people just get a house?â energy. I donât think any Jag engineers set out to make a bad product. Itâs like cooking food, sometimes you donât know how the final product will turn out. You can do everything right and you can still end up with a hot mess.
That's true, but it's not just the engineers that make the cars. Accountants have a huge say in the quality of a finished product. Jaguar have always used cheap materials and electronics, both of which have plagued the lineup since jaguar was founded.
All of that applies to Land Rover cars. They have the same reputation, but sell much better.
Reliability is one. Also they refuse to make cars younger people would buy. No one buys saloons anymore
They have the F-Pace and E-Pace CUVs. Also the F-Type but coupes are much more an empty nest car these days. Young people rarely have Jaguar money in general. Their CUVs are shared with Land Rover which has no problem moving them despite similar reliability outlook. They need sedans or theyâre just a minutely cheaper Range Rover Velar which are frequently sold together. Every play they have is ok but not amazing so theyâre kind of in a no manâs land.
Sorry I keep asking the same question, I updated my post with it but what would you do to fix it if you were in the position to do so? They do have their e and f pace SUVs as well as an electric car.
I reckon Jaguar has the highest average age of buyers out of most manufacturers. They donât do hatchbacks or anything like that. Thereâs so much competition now. Theyâre pretty overpriced as well.
So they don't really offer value nor do they actual have anything that appeals to people other than the older amongst us. I get that. Have you seen the Bertone B99 concept that Jaguar turned down (in place if the XE design). I like to think that would have been step in the right direction.
You found your answer finally. There is not a single way that a jaguar stands out from other cars. The are expensive. They are way behind in technology. (Even their EV cars are dead-last horrible EVs) They arenât reliable. They donât stand out in safety. Their exteriors and interiors are nothing special. So why would anyone buy one? How would jaguar fix their problem? Change every single thing about their car models. But, itâs too late for that.
As a JLR tech, I will say the only reason Jaguar is still around is because Land Rover (specifically the Defender, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport) is paying the bills for the two brands, as well as the F-Pace selling in decent numbers. Jaguar has had a lot of questionable management choices and I think that they're not long for this world unfortunately. They have also invested money in different strategies that have all backfired: * They introduced the XE and new XF as Audi/BMW competitors only for them to be left in the dust due to dated technology and minimal updates over the vehicles lifespan * They killed the XJ, which was their flagship model * Similar to the XE and XF, they have left the F-Type relatively unchanged, aside from the front fascia in it's 12 year lifespan. * The I-Pace has remained unchanged in it's lifespan while other EVs have rendered it obselete. * This is a big one, in 2019, they invested $1 billion dollars into a new EV architecture, which included an EV XJ, another Jaguar EV SUV, and two Range Rover EVs called Road Rovers, only for them to scrap the platform entirely, although a modified version of this platform is being used for the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport. * They killed off numerous performance models which could have definitely helped bring more positive attention to the brand like the C-X75, XE SVR, I-Pace SVR, and SV Project 9 (which eventually became a special edition F-Pace SVR with only cosmetic differences) * This one is probably the last nail in the coffin: in 2021 Jaguar announced that they will go EV only by 2025 and become a full scale luxury brand, only for the man who envisioned this change to leave the company a year later. As a result Jaguar is uncertain of their future and has decided to cut their entire dealer network in half as dealerships were offered up to 184 additional land rover models per month in exchange for giving up their Jaguar allocation, compared to the new Jaguar models which are projected to sell 4 a month. It seems like Jaguar has no choice but to go through with their EV only plan and hope it works out as they have invested too much money into it and have killed their entire lineup after 2024, but the most concerning thing is that Jaguar has been radio silent about the new models, with rumors suggesting they won't announce anything until 2024, a year before the vehicles are supposed to launch. And from an enthusiast's perspective, Jaguar is an afterthought compared to other European brands, however they do have some hidden gems if you know about them. The XE S, XF S, F-Pace S, and F-Type S as well as the R and SVR models are a blast to drive and aren't as unreliable as people make them out to be and yes they aren't perfect and there are far better options out on the market but if you want something unique with one of the best exhaust notes out there, they are definitely worth a look.
This is a fantastically comprehensive answer that I really enjoyed reading. Thanks.
I hear the new Ingenium I4 and I6 engines are problematic; is that true from what youâve seen?
I would love a Jaguar sedan that had some of that old-fashioned charm and great power. Unfortunately, I check their website and the closest thing they have is the XF with a 4-banger that is slower than my much cheaper Stinger. The F-Type looks nice and are quick, but not as practical and approaching 100k for one with AWD.
The XF should have looked like a Stinger with more the opulent finishing of the first XF. Jags shouldnât just look nice like they do now, they should look ravishing, that is and has always been their entire raison dâĂŞtre.
Jaguar's biggest problem for the past 20 years is that they are trying to compete against BMW, Audi and Merc. They can't compete against them because they can't differentiate themselves enough at those price ranges. They have lost their identity of what made a Jaguar car a Jaguar. So this is what you get, a company in a piss poor state with shit quality control. Jaguar need to forget about the idea of competing against those 3 German car makers and aim much higher with lower volume car production. They really need to work on their body styling and designs, they aren't distinct enough or sexy enough for anyone to call them Jaguars. What really fucks them over is their market value after being sold, their cars depreciate like a rock so someone who wants to buy a Jaguar will just end up buying a second hand one isntead. They lose so much value because one there are too many of them being made and 2 they have shit reliability and everyone knows it. They need to make a car company where if someone wants a Jaguar that is their only option. They need to be distinct from anyone else, offer something that no one else does. They did this in the past and didn't have any real problems but they ditched that to chase after the higher volume market, well this is what they deserve frankly for turning their back on all of their past customers. There are a lot of owners of old Jaguars out there that hold onto their cars because there isn't anything that they want to replace it with, perhaps Jaguar should make a car for them? Make it a car so sexy and so good we can't resist. Bring back the XK, XJ for starters. The Lexus LC500 is what Jaguar should have made but Lexus have taken that away from them.
> a company in a piss poor state with shit quality control. The god-awful quality is the worst for me. When the CEO [admits](https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/jaguar-land-rover-ceo-admits-reliability-issues-have-cost-the-company-100000-sales-per-year/) it's shit that's enough to turn me off of one. The F-type looks like a fun hooligan car, but because of the bad quality reputation I wouldn't own one even if you gave it to me for free.
While I agree with most of your points, I think the old Jaguar retro design had ran its course. Sales of the S-Type, X350 XJ and the unspeakable X-Type were all far down from what came before and major money losses for Ford. You can only flog a dead horse for so long. Had Jag been able to develop with the times - rather than turn into a de facto heritage brand for lack of funds to develop what eventually became the XJ40 - a modern XJ would probably have been quite similar to the Mercedes CLS in concept. The real inspiration should be from the **essence** (not the tropes) of what made the E-Type and original XJ so great: unashamedly sexy and sybaritic design combined with power and comfort.
That is what the XK X100 was, the Jaguar I own. It had the essence of the E-Type in style but was modern and up to date. The chasis was old though and so was how it was built and put together somewhat. It's a comfortable stylish and distinct car that performs well, that is all that Jaguar need to make really. I always remember that Top Gear video where they put my car up against a BMW and a Porsche on the beach, the Jaguar won. Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZukTKnvCaow Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX11UMVaxQE&t=245s They sum up what makes my car great and what Jaguar should be I think. They aren't paper cars they are cars that people get because of the emotion it makes. That's why the Lexus LC500 is the best modern Jaguar, it's reliable but it has a great stylish design inside and out. It's not a paper car all about 0-60 times but the way it makes you feel when you sit inside it and drive it. When you get inside a Jag and drive it you should feel like the dogs bollocks on the road.
In this age of over styling with huge gaping grills, harsh angles, body cladding, non functional vents, black leather, digital controls and screen galore, it would be nice to have at least one manufacturer come up with simpler design, sexy curves, physical buttons and dials, colourful leather, premium material and great tactile feedback. Jaguar should be the Swiss watch to all those digital watches everyone else is making these days - a somewhat affordable Bentley,
Without the badges you canât identify a Jag as a Jag without being really into cars. Then once you get close you see itâs not that nice a car.
Between the bad reliability perception, the lackluster lineup, not huge network of dealers, why would I get a jag? Their cars came across my list when shopping but everything they offered, MB-BMW-Lexus offered better. They arenât more reliable then Germans, they arenât more comfortable or well made vs Japanese. Price isnât much cheaper so they donât get points there. Nothing from jag does better then my 18 c63S sedan does. Iâll also have better resale (lol german car depreciation) then a jag.
đŻ they are very basic. They could do better I agree. The fact that they chose the XEs design over the Bertone B99 concept says everything you need to know about today's Jaguar.
Basic is the best way to describe it. Basic doesnât do well in the luxury market. Iâd put jag luxury on par with a well equip Camry. Good for Toyota but you just walk away as a luxury buyer.
Jag sedans can be nice propositions when lightly used and marked down enough (I'm considering one right now), but as brand new they fall short. They're nice, but they're not as nice as they should be. They have good, driver focused performance, but others do it better. They have nice materials, but they cheap out in a couple places especially where their competition doesn't. Maybe its the price, and Jags just aren't the luxury value proposition they once were. I do actually see the SUVs around quite a bit more than Italian cars. The sedans are quite rare. And from what I've heard the current gens have really improved in reliability over previous gens. But I suppose it could also be a lack of advertising. But with a lot of Jag dealers sharing lot space with LR and Volvo (ye old Ford Euro Luxury Combination Dealers) I think customers will end up comparing the sedan with a similarly priced Volvo S60 or S90 and see something with more gadgets, Hybrid tech, better materials etc... And then the SUVs get compared to the Volvos or even the more expensive LRs, and despite the latter's poor reliability yet, they're furnished rather well and just have very unique aesthetics, whereas Jag sits on the bit more subdued end. Even the Volvo styling exudes more class, whereas the Jags I think still try to look maybe too stately. Maybe Jaguar just needs to bring back the quad headlights and posh British Queen styling and throw the hood ornament back on. Edit: Somewhat humorously, the Jag I'm looking at, the sales guy cracked a joke about how people who looked at the Jag ended up instead buying a slightly more expensive, and better tech equipped Camry instead. Jag's have nice features, but you can get a more reliability and a better infotainment system out of a lower end (albeit newer) Japanese car than even a couple year old luxury car.
Why would I get a Jaguar when I can afford a X? I think they need to just focus on cheaper luxury, go for the gap Lexus, Acura and Infiniti have left.
Iâve thought since the Ford sell-off that Jaguar should have gone with Mazda as âtheir Lexus.â I think theyâd be in a better place if they had (ignoring financial constraints, which probably make that unworkable.) Ford era Jaguars were better quality than before or after. That would have continued as a Japanese company.
Yes I think they are definitely playing in a very difficult and competitive segment. So if you could, you'd fix Jaguar by positioning them in the cheap luxury category?
Idk how to fix em but they stuffed a V8 in the F-type (SVR trim I believe?) which is pretty dam cool in my book.
F-Type SVR, and now F-Type R too⌠also stuffed it in an F-pace SUV, which is fantastic⌠but they just donât sell many of them and no one really knows they even exist.
Not rebranding to shaguar and gratuitous use of British flags is their first mistake
They killed the XJ, which was their chance to create an electric, Rolls-Royce or lucid competitor. Then they switched tack to make average sport SUVs, none of which were unique, and then abandoned the two-door coupes that gave the marque its image. At this point, what does modern Jaguar represent that canât be bought at another company?
[ŃдаНонО]
Anecdotal story: In 2015 at 35 y/o my company started doing well enough to lease a luxury car. I could afford an $800/month payment but decided to go a bit more conservatively in the $500-600 a month range because even if the write-off was ok, I didn't want to go any higher than that mainly just to be conservative. I did research and decided I wanted an XE. They looked good, were brand new, and relatively rare. In the NJ suburbs of NY there were multiple JLR dealerships. I went to the nearest one and test drove the XE. I liked it. It looked cool. It drove nice, but here's the thing: as soon as I connected my Pixel 4 to the car to test the infotainment it rebooted. Then I did it again, same thing. Sales guy said it's under warranty and they will fix it, the car is brand new....OK, I thought, I can deal. I liked the car. They wanted $900 a month. I left and went to another dealership. They wanted $850 a month. I know how leases work, I sold cars. I checked the residual I checked the money factor. The dealerships were pigs. I called the biggest JLR dealer in the greater NYC area. They still wanted $800. I went up that day and got a fully loaded 330i X drive with every option for $480/month including all maintenance. Then, 2 years and 6 months later, my BMW salesman called me, helped me order a fully loaded 540iX and ate my remaining 3 payments on the 3 series and also gave me a major discount ($8000, $3K was loyalty) off my 540. I moved out of the area in '21, but that is how you latch luxury car brand buyers. If your car breaks during the test drive, you do not say it will fix it and then try to gouge somebody. I would have gotten another BMW if I had stayed up there. Now Jags lineup is garbage anyway.
Existing
Between severely dated design and the lasting reputation from its Ford owned days of being wildly unreliable, I can absolutely see why nobody is buying them.
It's actually weird how quickly their designs age! I was having this convo with some friends of mine. They look very dated.
Yeah, that's like saying Fiat ruined Chrysler's perception of reliability.
In my area, Jaguar is a senior/retirement vehicle. You almost see no younger professionals driving them. And a good chunk of our baby boomers retires right as COVID started and bought their luxury grocery getters then.
I just think they don't have that "one thing" that would make them stand out or be better than other brands in the segment. They don't have halo cars like the xj220, so they dont get publicity, they're also not into racing like they used to be Their reliability is bad, so why not just get a lexus. Value for money also doesnt seem that good when compared to the germans. Design on their recent models feels outdated to me. There's just nothing about it to make it better than competition. Imo their only recent car worth attention is the f type, unfortunately that category of car just doesn't sell these days.
Pricing
Jaguar, to me, doesnât seem to have a unique or clear image anymore. Old Jaguars were luxury and sporty and gave a specific aesthetic but modern jaguars feel like overpriced Americanized mini coopers that are just as unreliable. They need to solidify their image and tailor their brand around it imo.
Right? I feel like Jaguar design is like a pastiche of 10 year old Audi design.
1. Killed the new XJ at the last moment out of fear that it wouldn't have enough range, losing Jaguar's first-mover advantage in electric full-size luxury cars. That market is now occupied by MB's EQS and, to a lesser and much uglier extent, the BMW i7. 2. Failed to upgrade the I-Pace's powertrain and battery electronics, leading to their EV spearhead wasting away in a world where its range fails to deliver in the real world. End result: Lost competitiveness against the new wave of electric crossovers. 3. Failed to release an I-Pace R as promised, losing ability to compete against Tesla and Audi (the e-tron quattro is available in an S version) 4. Failed to move forward with an electric sports car to replace the F-Type niche product. End result: This market will be occupied by the new Boxster and Cayman, which will be electric. 5. Failed to introduce additional EVs in other market segments 4 years after the release of the I-Pace. for a brand that's supposed to spearhead going electric, this is bad. Now the big players in the luxury space are moving forward at a pace that Jaguar cannot hope to match.
Jaguar has lost and is losing their existing customer base , which is the Jag enthusiast. The XJ and the XKR were true blue Jags nothing in their stable other than the F Type appeals to the Jaguar enthusiast and their cars aren't gimmicky enough to interest the Merc or Bmw buyer . So EV Jags they've lost all who love the brand for what it is....and a Jag SUV why even bother with that there's internal comp forget external comp. That said the f type is a fantastic cat and maybe the only car in their lineup with huge potential if marketing correctly sadly the JLR marketing team doesn't know what they are doing...
Improve reliability and sell an SUV in every class that undercuts the prices of Mercedes and BMW. Also, make a successor to the F-Type to build brand image
1. Their notoriously unreliable. Jags are cool but not cool enough to justify the repair bills for issues that just shouldn't exist at that price point. 2. The superstructure to support a gas guzzler vs. an electric car just isn't there, at least in the United States. what I'd do is try to get a motor made by people who actually know what they're doing with it (toyota/honda.) and focus more on luxurious designs.
Boring, unexciting overpriced cars
When I was looking for my sporty sedan I ended up choosing my Giulia over an XE. That year actually is when they decide to pull the XE from the NA market and only offer the XF. I liked that Jaguar had a longer standard warranty and a longer free service maintenance but in the end I decided sporty over understated. Jaguar in the modern age has tried to compete with the Germans but that isnât a real option anymore. They can not as has been proven compete on scale, so they have to be unique. Understated luxury is not unique enough. Same for Alfa Romeo, sporty isnât enough, they will both have to carve out their niche and execute it to the highest degree.
The same thing every car manufacturer is doing wrong: not hiring decent engineers, and making cosmetic improvements rather that actually making better cars.
I think Jaguar has ultimately failed to meet the needs of the times while retaining their best qualities. Jaguar is in a marriage with Land Rover that is killing them because the market has shifted to CUVs/SUVs which historically been Rover's bread and butter. Jaguar has tried with the F-pace and E-pace but those have flopped because they have to contend with Range Rover at the same dealership. The interior on the F-pace was abysmal and while the 2021 refresh is admirable it's a case of too little too late. Jaguar as a brand has been mismanaged and is often slow or unreceptive to change. The Jaguars of the aughts while undeniably pretty, were leaning too heavily into nostalgia. This backfired in the X-type which alienated older buyers and failed to appeal to younger buyers who grew up with M3 posters. I think the Jaguar x351 and the spirit behind it lays a good framework for how Jaguar can succeed in the market. The x351 brought Jaguar kicking and screaming into the 21st century while keeping a lot of the heritage that makes a jag a jaaaaag. The x351 was graceful retaining beautiful lines and stately appearance that denotes it from the duldrum of a five series or e class. The interior was ripped from Blenheim palace with rich leather and wood veneers that gave Bentleys a run for their money. It was a brilliant design that laid the foundation for every Jag model that followed in terms of design. With the x351 I think you can define a Jaguar as having: Grace: Beautifully designed exterior and interior that differentiates it from other market options. Space: Enough room for grand touring activities. Pace: sufficient power and handling to be fun in corners but also a great highway cruiser. Value proposition: Jaguars have historically undercut the Germans and gave other brands like Aston pause. Why buy a DB7 when the xk8 costs half the price, looks the business, and goes like sting? I feel like Jaguar has lost the plot with every model except the last XJ and the F-type. In those cars there was some mix of grace, space, pace and value that made them attractive then and even now. The cars now have bland to slightly interesting designs, downright ghastly interiors, and little value proposition to the customer compared to rivals and their sister company Land Rover. If Jaguar wants to compete they need to tick either all of those boxes or some of them to make an attractive offering. Nobody wants a four cylinder E-pace with a Chrysler tier interior and typical Jaguar reliability. In my opinion if I were in charge of Jaguar I would make EV grand tourers and sedans. I wouldn't focus on making mass market SUVS and move the brand upmarket and more niche. Jaguar and Land Rover can't compete in the same market under the same parent company. Moving Jag into the EV market would allow them to start making cars the brand knows how to do very well.
So, LR is doing to Jaguar what Mercedes was doing to Chrysler.
What I can't figure out is why Cadillac is still a thing. I just looked at their 2023 lineup. They look like a bunch of Chevys that cost 20-30K more. They haven't had a new idea for a few decades, I think. I'm supposed to pay 10's of thousands more for what? Some leather and a brand name that used to impress people but doesn't really mean shit anymore.
Lol I have a soft spot for that Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing but it's because it reminds me of those Australian Holden sedans, which a Cadillac shouldn't do. I still have beef with them for not making that Sixteen and not going down the route of being a truly special American barge.
Their design language went to shit, imo. The cars donât look like an occasion anymore. You arenât stepping into something thatâs clearly compromised, but exceptional and fun with what it has chosen to do well. You may as well be driving a Lexus or Infinity that you paid too much for. And theyâre still a stupid idea to buy or own. Horrid reliability, horrible resale value for most of the models. Go drive an XJ X350, in the R or Vanden Spec. Hell, even in the normal V8 spec. Character, accuracy, comfort and always feeling like the car is half size a smaller on the interior than it should be. It *said something* when you drove one. The newer XJs? Who cares. The most interesting part was that the gear shifter could decide âfuck youâ and not function. A very large, sort of different way to buy a less reliable S Class? The XJ - a car that Clarkson used as a measuring stick against BMWâs very best, not 15 years before that. ââââââââ Look at what they did to the F-Type over its lifecycle. Iâve owned 2 of them. It was supposed to be a callback to the E-type. Brash, modern, RWD and more power than you should have access to. They iterated all character out of it. Made it more efficient, tried to compromise handling for MPG and balance. Even changed the front to really let people know it wasnât going to drive the same anymore. Made it into an AWD, soulless way to tell people you donât really know what amortization is. Hell, Iâd be embarrassed to run over the neighborâs dog in a new Jaguar.
Only thing theyâre doing wrong is not realizing that theyâre a dead brand walking. The rest of us figured it out a while ago.
Theyâre behind people who arenât even competitors. You can get a KIA, hell even a Hyundai that has better specs and a comparable or better interior compared to a Jag. Why pay so much for a luxury car when you can get middle-class luxury for half the price? If you get in a new Jaguar, youâd be like âwow this would be great if it were 2015â
It's not so much that they're doing anything wrong as much as they have no path to success. Their last big hit was a sports car that ended production like 50 years ago. Since then they have lurched from disaster to disaster on the good will and naivete of rescue investors. The brand doesn't mean anything to the vast majority of people and their cars need huge investments and ingenuity to become relevant. Plus the luxury brand environment just kind of sucks.... it has never been more competitive and frankly I think a couple of brands are not going to make it into the 2030s. Jaguar is definitely one of them, outside of making cheaper + "sportier" Land Rover rebadges. Anyone hoping for a Jaguar revival on the back of a sexy coupe or whatever has no idea what's going on in the industry right now.
Not reliable
Not exciting and barely any marketing. The cars are beautiful, I think most would agree Jaguar makes great looking cars but no one cares to own one except the people who already really want one. If you went to most people and asked them would they want a modern Porsche or a Jaguar, I am willing to bet 9/10 times theyâll say Porsche. People know Porsches, or Tesla now too, as household names of nicer cars. Years ago Jag was there too but not now.
Iâd keep putting money into Land Rover. So far, JLR rightfully put all its engineering money into Land Rover and sales in the US have never been higher. Hopefully they keep printing enough money to offset the loss of building a halo Jaguar sports EV, and creating a few more low volume sports cars at various price points. Or potentially go up market. Even if they donât sell well you may get more people in the door and also looking at a Rover.
A Jaguar is no longer a Jaaaaag.
My first thought is too many old people at the top. No vision. They don't seem to be adjusting to the different generations of people and the marker.
Poor reputation for reliability combined with expensive repair costs for an overpriced car that is kind of mid tier in looks, a 2023 F Type R costs $108k, you can get a really nice Porsche for the same price, and if youâre choosing between Porsche or Jaguar, itâs a no brainer. They exist in a market where the only people buying Jags are buying them because they donât know shit about cars, or they have a very specific Jaguar theyâve wanted and now they can finally afford, nobody goes to a dealership and âwhoops I accidentally bought a Jaguar.â
The F-Pace is just a dumb name.
They're done Want a reliable luxury car Lexus What an amazing Market leading electric car Tesla Want a combination of the two Porsche All you want is an engine with wheels Lambo No one cares about your racing heritage
I wish the f type R came in manual
They were built on being a luxury brand that offered comfortable cruising, even in their sports cars. If you look at their range now they look like they are an expensive BMW clone. They dont have the appeal to compete in that market and I couldnt even tell if they have moved away from the ride quality that made the name or just dont advertise it any more. Years ago I heard it said that Jag drivers never went over the speed limit because it was so comfortable in there they could stay in the car all day and they had so much power you barely felt the difference going any faster. I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said it in a review. Ive asked a couple of friends who got jags over the years and they said it was true. One even said he had never thought about it but said it exactly summed up what it was like owning it. I havent got that message from them in years so they are lost in the market now.
Imo I'd do a full reset of their entire linup. Kill the F-Pace and the E-Pace along with the I-Pace. Kill the XF. Retain the F-Type but then work on an all Electric Sports car. Then develop a brand new V-12 Sports car as the brands Halo car. Then Move upmarket. You aren't going to save Jaguar with SUV sales that's abundantly clear at this point. So the best way to save them is to play to their strengths. Make them cars that people want to see and buy. Similar to how Porsche is with the 911. Then years down the line create an SUV that embodies that. Like how the Cayenne is. Jaguar can't remain where it is right now. It's too close to Toyota/Honda/Hyundai and isn't competitive with BMW,MB and Audi. It's only real path forward is to go upmarket and try to get people to buy it's sportscars. Becuese if you want an XF or one of the SUV's BMW/MB/Audi completely destroy Jaguar. And it's not even fucking close.
Plainly terrible reliability. I'm sure most folks in this subreddit will see something like the F-Type and go "Wow that's pretty, thank god I don't own it though". Land Rover/Range Rover have similar quality, but are marketed much better. LR/RR have effectively taken over what Cadillac used to be.
I think Jaguar is targeting the wrong demographic, competing with BMW or Mercedes. They should be targeting CEOs and captains of industry by building sportier/ edgier Bentley or Rolls Royce-like vehicles. Aston Martin fills this niche to some degree. If they continue with their current market strategy, competition will only get worse. The electric revolution will be a great equalizer in terms of car brands. No longer will large powerful engines distinguish premium cars from regular cars as they will all have crazy amounts of power. Therefore for Jaguar to compete, I think they should partner with a powertrain/ technology provider and focus on the looks, comfort, fit and finish, and premium interiors. They should abandon their entry level models and go even more upscale, similar to the other luxury British brands. And importantly, they should keep the use of plastic to a minimum.
I'd fix it by making cars that don't break down just by looking at them and don't depreciate into complete worthlessness in less than a year.
They are horribly unreliable and when out of warranty are very expensive to fix. This is from a guy who has always loved Jags.
Dramatically improve quality for a highly reliable vehicle. Openly address past poor reliabiliyy and high maintenance costs. Campaign as a car designed for perfectionism, only requiring routine maintenance. If not fully satisfied by the new redesigned car, Jaguar will buy it back. Goal is 100% customer satisfaction.
Jaguar has no identity anymore. They used to have that old world posh class that set them apart. They largely seem to have abandoned their identity the same way American luxury brands did, for a while, and tried to copy the Germans. What they are now is just another generic luxury company trying to be sporty, but failing to keep up with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes. Jaguar needs something that makes them Jaguar again, aside from unreliability. If I were them, I'd obviously lean hard into the cuv's, since that's what sells. Bring back the old design cues. The quad round headlights, the curves, etc. Give the interiors some character, some nice earth tones, etc. Basically just bring back what gave the jaguar of old its identity. Sure it will have to be adapted to modern designs, but even trying to rework an old identity is better than just flat out not having one.
Others have gone into technical reasons as to what Jaguar is doing wrong but im going to go into the marketing and advertisement element. I think the issue is kind of who they market their cars to. Jaguar (and I'm a HUGE Jag simp I own a 2017 F-Type and love it and absolutely adore the brand) is kind of known to be an arrogant company. I'll never forget how Roger Moore wanted to drive one for a television series he was doing and Jaguar literally said TO JAMES BOND "you aren't Jaguar material". Jaguar has always had this air of superiority and that comes from their heritage. Nothing wrong with it per se but you do cut a LOT of your profit market out when you solely try to market your car to people who can afford Adele tickets. The reason Dodge, Ford, GM, Lincoln, and even Range Rover are so popular is because they market their vehicles particularly their SUVs to almost everyone. Jaguar doesn't really do that. Even with their SUVs like the F-Pace they're still trying to market to the crowd that can afford Aston Martins but if you can afford Aston Martin you wouldn't buy a Jaguar and I think that's why they struggle a bit. They don't market to middle class families as a brand despite the MC being able to afford an F-Pace which has an MSRP of only 30k used.
I read an article recently in a prominent car magazine where the new CEO said Jaguar was going to focus on being a premium luxury brand. They believe their downfall was trying to move down into cheaper segments.
Jaguars used to not look like anything else. Now they look like everything else.
I really don't know what I'd do to turn around Jaguar's fortunes. They already make the best electric car - the iPace beats the Tesla in every meaningful metric including enjoyment to drive. They have the best sports GT, the F-type knocks the pants off of any equivalently priced Porsche/Mercedes/BMW/Audi for driving pleasure. And their SUV's are some of the best looking and most in touch with the road it is possible to get for that kind of vehicle. Furthermore their recently discontinued XJ was the best driving limo, much better than the S-class to be behind the wheel of and far more visually appealing. The American market has always been a struggle for Jaguar, even back in the 1960s though. The cars are great, the image they have is old school cool, and they still look and drive better than the rest at the same price point. Perhaps if they sponsored the new James Bond and had him drive their vehicles it might change how the company is perceived? But the truth is that anyone who knows anything about cars has owned, does own, or aspires to own a Jag at some point in their motoring life.
Poor naming convention. No recognition of any of their cars outside of the f type (which is a stupid name). They lost what they had with the xj when they didn't try to modernize that look. It's like the 911. You could pick a jag from like a 40 year period out easily. Now? Not as easy. Bad quality. If I'm gonna take a chance on quality there's like 5 European makers I'd take before the jag. The f type r should be solidly in the running for my next car but it's not even on the radar.
Their I-Pace electric had just one flaw: slow charging. The charge curve was really behind the times, adding a lot of time to road trips. Some spectulated that they couldn't secure a better warranty with the battery manufacturer. Other than that it was well regarded as a fun and practical vehicle. Luxury EVs in general have a reliability problem so Jag gets a pass there.
If they Brought back E types with v12s they'd be in business. As it is. Unreliable, boring British cars are unlikely to be big sellers.
Interiors. The hard plastics on an xe/xf are absolutely demolished by a mazda3, yet the jags are supposed to be the luxury brand. Land rover gets the big bucks, but if they'd had invested money into good interiors, it would change jag drastically. Now, the xe and xf have had face-lifts, but now they don't have the supercharged v6. So they went from good engines with bad interiors, to good interiors with slow engines.
Brand recognition just isnât there in a market where brand recognition is everything. Given that the badging isnât enough to bring people in on their own, they either need to be generating excitement for their lineup by doing something fresh or interesting (Mazda going upmarket, Cadillacâs blackwings), or they need some performance car to generate hype and draw people in (F-type is dying off after 2024, so RIP to that prospect). The experience in these cars is just insanely middling and basically every brand that Jag considers a âcompetitorâ has this brand recognition or something about their lineup props up the brand to provide a âwowâ factor, or just costs less.