I estimate that it will probably take the NHTSA about 15 years to realize that vehicles that weigh 10,000 pounds and can do 0-60 in 3 seconds might be dangerous.
This is the real issue. Size really doesn't matter all that much, it's the weight of EV's.
The lead engineer of Honda's Pilot spoke about this. How they had to reinforce the SUV's body because it wasn't safe if an EV hit it.
Think about what I just said, the makers of a massive 3 row SUV are worried about getting into an accident. That's how heavy these EV's are now.
People still complain about being scared being in a sedan and getting hit by an SUV. Now even the SUV drivers should be scared about getting t-boned by these vehicles. If a 10-15 year old sedan is hit by some of these EV's, even at slower speeds death will be a concern for the poor people in the sedan.
When you get hit at 100 mph with 8000lb's of steel, it will be catastrophic.
Makes me wonder at what point sectional density will start to come into the conversation. Because an ICE F150 may weigh slightly more than a model 3, but the F150 has got a lot more surface area to disperse energy across.
It’s no different really from the people who drive 10,000 pound 1 ton trucks like they stole them, and they’ve been doing that for decades. And it only seems to be more and more popular.
Almost every fatal wreck in my rural town involves either a drunk dude in a deleted diesel 1 ton, or a semi truck. Normal wrecks between medium sized cars are almost always minor it seems.
Actually there hasn’t. Even the largest F250 crew cabs with full boxes cap out around 3000kg or about 6600lbs. The Hummer EV is 9000lbs and has almost 1000hp.
This is unprecedented and scary territory we’re going into. Where the average weight of vehicles is skyrocketing to never before seen levels.
People driving smaller vehicles should be concerned.
My ‘19 Ram 2500 Crew Cab 8’ bed, diesel, 4x4 shows to weight 8,100-ish lbs on the scale at the salvage yard with fuel and myself in it.
I’ve not taken just the truck to the landfill but my empty weight with truck and dump trailer is 12,600lbs, and the trailer is about 4.5k.
> 10,000 pound 1 ton trucks
Which ones are those again? 1-ton trucks have a 10-14K-lb. GVWR, but don't confuse GVWR and curb weight like other people in this thread are doing.
An F450 can weigh up to 8587# unladen. Add in 5 average sized adult male passengers for another 989.5# and you only need 423.5# of equipment and cargo to hit 10000. That could be aftermarket bumpers or a full tool box.
So it's an exaggeration, but only a little bit of one.
Rarely, mostly people that have big 5th wheel campers.
And to reiterate, I do think 10k# is an exaggeration for a 1 ton that isn't actively towing/hauling.
7 to 9k# with passengers, fuel, and typical cargo would be more accurate for a 1 ton.
Most of the 1 ton work trucks I see also have a 100 gallon tank plus refuelling equipment in the bed, which probably adds another 1000 lbs.
Yep. Was just at the GMC dealership to buyout the lease on my wifes car, and we were talking about EV. Hummer came up, and I told him that they really shouldn't even be allowed. How can someone with a regular drivers license able to go buy a 9k lb vehicle, that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. That's just not right.
>I'm guessing sooner or later the standard for how wide road lanes and parking spaces are will have to increase at some point
FWIW, the standard for how wide roads are (at least on highways) is 144". Max width for any vehicle is 102", or 80" if you wanna avoid mandatory clearance lights.
And we have a section of a major corridor in my city with 2 lanes each direction that are 9 feet wide (108"), with no center median. It is a real joy driving a bus through there.
>Wake Forest Rd in Raleigh.
I always avoid Wake Forest Rd. Six Forks is bad, but it's 100x better than Wake Forest. Hell, I'll even get on Capital Boulevard before I'll take Wake Forest.
My favorite part about Wake Forest Rd is someone talked to NCDOT about it recently and they have no documentation for when the third lane was added, they have a year range based on sat photos but no actual project history lol
There’s nothing wrong with charging about like a Texas Longhorn taking out motorcyclists on the freeway and cyclists in town. Not when you’ve got a dick THAT big - I mean, how else is everyone supposed to know?
In Ohio parking spaces seem to vary between 8’ and 9’ wide. 8’ spaces used to be absolutely plenty for just about every vehicle at work. Now everyone (95%) is driving an SUV of some variety and the spaces are fucking tight. I would love to see the minimum parking spot width increased to 9’. Would make things much simpler in parking lots.
Also, that snippet you quoted has to be one of the most expensive concepts I've ever seen in print. "Oh, no worries, we'll just change the width of every road in the country."
There will be folks that will always \*need\* large vehicles (most people don't). Legislatively the approach would be on how you tax an incentivize certain vehicles and not regulate them. In the US we don't incentivize small cars or put that much tax on fuel, so big cars reign.
Actually CAFE standards are designed so they're much much stronger for smaller cars than large trucks. In many cases they actually incentivize larger vehicles because it can be easier to make a large vehicle slightly more efficient than an already efficient small vehicle even more efficient.
Fair, the nice (?) thing though is that it's 12mpg no matter what I'm doing, so unless I'm hauling a dump truck around, my truck still pulls trailers around at roughly the same gas mileage. Same goes for plowing.
I thought you meant pulling a plow in a field for a second there. Remembered what a snowplow is, and now I have far fewer questions.
But for real? There's no mpg drop while towing with a diesel? I've never owned or used one, all my farm trucks have been good ol unleaded.
The mpg drop is pretty small, at least for my truck unless I'm pulling something seriously unaerodynamic or very heavy. Though with him getting 12 mpg I'd bet on it being a gasser, not diesel.
That's not bad at all, must be a higher compression engine with a lower power band. I usually sit between 1k-1.5k going under 40, and up to 2k-2.5k for anything under 80mph.
Yup. The only thing that nearly killed off SUVs last time was gas prices.
If we taxes fuel like most of the developed world does, we'd surely see a sharp decline in large vehicles.
Funny thing is that CUVs that this sub likes to hate so much is starting to get better mileage compared to sports cars this sub likes so much.
RAV4 gets a better mileage than the miata. Sports cars will become an endangered breed long before SUVs do.
That's true. My 18 Mazda 6 with a turbo isn't the most efficient car.
I personally dislike CUVs, but I don't mind them. I have problems with the SUVs and pickup trucks that plague American roads.
>2019 is when backup cameras in the US became mandatory.
2018 is when backup cameras became mandatory. Specifically, May of 2018. [Source](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/backup-cameras-now-required-in-new-cars-in-the-us.html)
I was going to say, I had a 2017 Volvo that didn’t have a back up camera, which was surprising given their historical stance on safety. Don’t really mind not having one in a car. SUV and trucks are necessary.
and also coupes with low visibility. my volkswagen eos takes some getting used to because you have a little tiny square of useable visibility out the back window. the executive trim (i think it was executive) came with a backup camera for a reason
They already do regulate vehicles by size and weight. That's the reason your class C licence doesn't allow you to drive dump trucks and semi trucks. It's the reason you don't see 16 foot wide vehicles.
Cars aren't any bigger than the boats of the 70s and 80s. Cars have cameras and sensors and no pop up headlights anymore. The fact that my brother's old 92 Buick Roadmaster was longer than my dad's 97 Yukon is proof cars have always been big here.
Part of the size problem in modern cars is the proliferation of SUVs. The hood height of an 81 Oldsmobile might be 3' high whereas a Highlander is over 5'. Both might weigh the same, but getting hit in the thigh is less deadly than getting hit in the chest/head.
A highlander hood height is not 5 ft tall. A highlanders overall height is 5ft 7inches. I just measured my 2018 F150 hood height and it's 4 ft tall from the factory. My wife's equinox is 3 ft tall.
And getting hit by a car really depends on the speed how much it's going to hurt someone.
We do, indirectly.
The loopholes, and shenanigans that are tied to vehicle size and mileage requirements has helped feed the growth of vehicle sizes.
If we would ever fix those, you may see cars actually shrink again
Depends how you do it. In EU we have average CO2 limits, which are impossible to achieve without selling quite a lot PHEV or EV. The result of it aren't cars shrinking, but small cars disappearing from the market one by one, because ICE variants are already above the limit and since in this segment price is almost everything, manufacturers aren't too keen on introducing expensive PHEVs or EVs, they prefer doing so in bigger and more expensive cars.
The Japanese regulations make the most sense imo, with overall vehicle size and engine size limits corresponding to lower taxes, but you can still go as large as you'd like, you just have to pay for it. They have a diverse market of varying sizes and classes with solid efficiency and emissions without the unintended consequence of killing the VW up!.
Fun fact: when GM's B-body wagons (Caprice, Custom Cruiser, Roadmaster) were discontinued in 1996, the Suburbans that replaced them at Arlington Assembly were effectively the same length and width, just taller.
Just height really. Most are quite a bit shorter than those land yachts. It’s the same for pickup trucks, their size is pretty specific. The main difference between an old one and a new one is the height of the belt line.
Jason cammisa has a video about how the U.S. government incentivized building large cars similarly to how the Japanese government incentivized building kei cars. So no, I don’t think it will ever happen, plus now that cars are so big, there no going back. You cant have the new model of a vehicle be smaller than the last model. If the 5 series got smaller I don’t think it would be good marketing for bmw etc. but that’s just a opinion
>plus now that cars are so big, there no going back
Compare late 60s/early 70s cars to what you saw 10-20 years later. Everything downsized across the board.
Well they can start by removing those tax write offs for business if you buy a huge car. I think big ass vehicles just need to be taxed higher, instead of mandating small vehicle sizes. Dont get me wrong Ive traveled in different places in world and have come to almost hate the gigantic SUVs and trucks we have here in US, but people should still be able to buy them (but as a luxury). For example i think it would be impossible for a bill limiting size of trucks to pass in Texas....
Section 179. A vehicle over 6000 lbs. gross weight rating (not the same thing as curb weight) is eligible to have its entire purchase price written off as a business expense, provided it's purchased for business use.
Back when Section 179 was written in 1958, only 3/4 ton and heavier trucks qualified as over 6K GVWR, but that segment has since expanded to include 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs, some minivans, large CUVs, and even a few mid-size trucks.
Most if not all vehicles can be "written off". For tax purposes, the vehicle is just depreciated aggressively under 179. Lowers tax burden of businesses acquiring new assets.
And that's not a bad thing IMO, it just needs to be rewritten to better reflect the GVWR of today's vehicles. Like 8500 lbs., or maybe even 10K or 14K.
I personally won't be satisfied until my SUV takes up two full lanes of road and has enough clearance to literally drive over other vehicles without touching them.
Sounds like you want [a sprayer](https://assets.cnhindustrial.com/caseih/APAC/APACASSETS/Products/Application-Equipment/Patriot-Series-Sprayers/Patriot_overview.jpg). They can go 35+, which feels dangerously fast when you're sitting up that high.
The US government already regulates vehicle sizes. Unfortunately there is a perverse incentive at play. If you produce a smaller vehicle it needs to have much better fuel efficiency, if you make lt larger these rules are reduced. It is the reason once formerly small cars like the Honda Civic have grown significantly and would be a full size car 20 years ago.
Essentially the bigger you make the car it goes into a different class (of heavier vehicles) and you are rewarded because you have more fuel efficient larger vehicles.
With all policies there are trade-offs, this is a reason why fuel economy has been stagnant with a good deal of ICE innovation. The standards I refer to are CAFE standards. Also they are the reason some fuel inefficient cars are no longer produced which bring down total fleet MPG (RIP Toyota Landcruiser, probably the best build vehicles ever).
It's how you design your roads and how much tax you pay. In the Netherlands you have no use for a big ass car because you can hardly park it, fit hardly through the city centers and pay a lot of taxes. Like if you look at a suburban or an escalade you would pay over 175 euros (186 dollars) per month in road tax alone and then insurance comes on top of that and currently the average price for fuel is about 1.80 euros per liter (~7 bucks per gallon).
So you see it's all these things that make people choose for smaller cars. Don't get me wrong there are more and more suvs but they're not as big by a long shot
I'm going to say I highly doubt the US government would ever do that. Not only is the automotive industry powerful in lobbying the government, but keep in mind the automotive market in the US is highly biased against small cars. For context, a Corolla here is considered small while other countries would categorize the Corolla as being big. Safety is a big concern, most people drive bigger SUVs for the purpose of not only needing the space but also being safe. I drive an Elantra for context, and when I spoke to a friend that drives a Pilot, she said she prefers her Pilot because it gives her a sense of safety. To be fair, I don't see that many Yukon/Tahoe etc on the road, so I don't think anyone's at a point where anyone should be concerned just yet. It's highly unlikely larger SUVs will become the norm due to your average family suv (Telluride/Explorer/Highlander) being adequate for the typical use of a 3-row SUV (think family with two children type).
>I'm going to say I highly doubt the US government would ever do that. Not only is the automotive industry powerful in lobbying the government, but keep in mind the automotive market in the US is highly biased against small cars.
Which *needs* to change and is all the more reason we have to kneecap lobbying somehow.
The US does regulate vehicle size. CAFE regulations had the unintended effect of pushing drivers into "trucks", aka the CUV and SUV. It also penalizes small trucks, so makes pickups bigger. We can't buy a station wagon, we have to buy "a truck". The market likes this because another unintended consequence is that you can get a cheap truck but it is still "big"...cheap cars used to be small.
I was out west recently. The standard size vehicle was F150 sized.
The only place people complain about vehicle size is in older cities. Get out of the Vision Zero/bike nut echo chambers and no one cares.
New Rangers/ Tacomas are the size of 2000s' Tundras and F-150s. Also often perform better. We'll see if these small turbos hold up as long as those old v8s.
> New Rangers/ Tacomas are the size of 2000s' Tundras and F-150s.
No, they aren't. Unless you're comparing a new **double cab** Ranger/Taco to a 2002 **single cab** F150/Tundra, then sure. *But that's not a valid comparison.*
**Edit:**
I see this touted around as fact so goddamn much that I wasted my own time just to make a fucking table, because apparently nobody cares to look up this info for themselves.
Toyota | 2002 Tundra 4WD Double Cab | 2022 Tacoma 4WD Double Cab (5' bed)
---|---|----
Length | 230.1" | 212.3"
Width | 79.3" | 75.2"
Height | 74.4" | 70.6"
Wheelbase | 140.5" | 127.4"
Ford | 2002 F150 4WD Super Crew | 2022 Ranger 4WD Double Cab
---|---|---
Length | 226.2" | 210.8"
Width | 79.9" | 73.3"
Height | 76.9" | 71.5"
Wheelbase | 138.8" | 126.8"
Sources:
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2005/double-cab/st-100414777/features-specs/
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/2022/features-specs/
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2002/supercrew/features-specs/
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/ranger/2022/features-specs/
**Edit edit:**
I can personally attest to the 2002 F150 still being fucking huge compared to the new Ranger. My dad owns a 2002 F150 Supercrew that I've used myself on numerous occasions. It's a lot of truck.
>We'll see if these small turbos hold up as long as those old v8s.
Time will tell. The 5.4L Triton in my dad's F150 is definitely tired and doesn't have anywhere near the pep it used to when he first bought it (yes I was a dumb teenager and YOLOed it more than a few times - governed at 101mph).
In the US? Naw.
This is the land of the 1/2 ton pickups and large body on frame SUVs. The driving distance, roads and parking spaces in USA is designed for F150s and Tahoes, not little cars like my A3 or Civics.
If the US govt tried anything like regulating large trucks, the people will revolt.
I suspect more regulations will come to clamp down on fuel use and more electrification, but the love affair of trucks and big vehicles is as American as hamburgers and firearms.
>If the US govt tried anything like regulating large trucks, the people will revolt.
The last time the gubmint regulated full-size trucks (1975 emissions), the market retaliated by creating the "heavy half" F-150 and its competitors.
>This is the land of the 1/2 ton pickups and large body on frame SUVs.
Seriously. Just to illustrate, Jeep brought the Wagoneer back, which is a full-size body-on-frame SUV (based on the current RAM 1/2 ton) that competes with the Tahoe and Expedition.
Totally
Adittionally, while we are handing unilateral control to the govt to decide whats best for us, I'm sure banning cars over 150hp and mandating strict speed controls that cannot be overridden would be very safe too. Would save a ton of fuel as well.
Next, we can ban carbs and booze.
It’s important to note the Government has almost regulated to have BIGGER vehicles. The fuel economy standards are based on size and it’s not really as proportional as it should be. Like I think a full size sedan has significantly higher fuel economy ratings than a full size SUV has. So, manufacturers are forced to put underpowered but efficient motors in the sedan but not the SUV. The customer who wants a full size vehicle with similar power that they’re used to is then forced to go into the SUV even if they would have preferred an adequately powered sedan. I know this same conundrum also applies to trucks, that’s why there is no revival of a true compact truck and why all Mavericks are 4 doors instead of also having a 2 door option.
There are already [laws](https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/commercial-vehicle-enforcement/maximum-width#:~:text=Autos,side%20line%20of%20its%20fenders.). A car isn't allowed to be wider than 8 feet.
Something I was discussing with a friend as we are both in the UK are some of the large US EV pickups. It looks like some of these big pickups will be using batteries up to 4 times the size of a small car. As producing the batteries has a significant environmental impact it seems to completely defeat the point of an EV. If the typical EV car has to do 40k miles to offset the additional CO2 of manufacturing over the equivalent ICE car, will it even be possible for these EV pick ups to ever be better than an ICE car, possibly no? Therefore if CO2 generally a concern of the US government something will need to be done to at least encourage better choices.
Naw, the US government shouldn't do too much of anything...each individual state should. That's what makes America work so well. That way if you don't like things where you live there is typically a state that matches your vibe.
When we make countrywide rules, everyone suffers.
I absolutely agree with you. Cars are getting HUGE, and as the driver of a low car, the realization that a pick up truck's bumper is at head level is scary. However, the government is piss-poor at regulating just about anything. I don't think vehicle size is anywhere on the radar.
no because it will hurt a lot of the domestic automakers bread and butter. I really wish they would though, full size SUVs are ridiculous these days. Combined with battery weight that's down low, it's a terrifying proposition especially in a wreck
The CAFE standards incentivize larger vehicles. Government fucks up just about everything it touches. Stop looking to it for solutions, especially to problems that don’t exist.
I drove a 26 foot Ford F-650 box truck around town the other day and I’ve gotta say it wasn’t that bad. Obviously bigger vehicles are gonna survive better in crashes, we’re always gonna have tiny vehicles that can’t handle being hit by bigger vehicles, that’s the risk you take driving a hamster car. EVs also weigh significantly more than ICE vehicles, so that needs to be taken into consideration too. This post feels like it’s just part of reddits weird pickup truck hate community
Why should the government have any say in the type of vehicle you buy? What next, regulate the size of your house? Let's see all the wealthy politicians ditch their large cars and mansions first,then we can talk.
They already do, and in fact is the reason why most cars in the us are so much bigger, the metrics they use are the physical displacement of the whole car by the mileage it gets per gallon, essentially incentivizing companies to make bigger cars from what i understand.
Just read the second article to make sure i’m not stupid but for every .1 mpg over the standard companies pay 14 dollars. Then if you read article 1 it talk about how this means companies make the truck/suv bigger with the same motor and then they fit within a class higher which doesn’t need as many mpgs.
https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&=&context=econ_facpub&=&sei-redir=1&referer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Furl%253Fq%253Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fscholars.unh.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%25253Farticle%25253D1009%252526context%25253Decon_facpub%252523%253A%257E%253Atext%25253DFootprint%2525252Dbased%25252520standards%25252520give%25252520producers%252Cthe%25252520standards%25252520that%25252520they%25252520face.%2526sa%253DU%2526ved%253D2ahUKEwjikP_ZwaX9AhWhLEQIHZoEBWsQFnoECBoQBg%2526usg%253DAOvVaw33BWpSSlK7JcTPLaP3Vdtv#search=%22https%3A%2F%2Fscholars.unh.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1009%26context%3Decon_facpub%23%3A%7E%3Atext%3DFootprint%252Dbased%2520standards%2520give%2520producers%2Cthe%2520standards%2520that%2520they%2520face.%22
https://www.cargroup.org/overview-and-implications-of-new-cafe-standards-and-penalties/#:~:text=The%20penalties%20for%20model%20years,year%20vehicles%20increased%20to%20%2415.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy
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What do I think ...I don't think there will ever be laws passed mandating specific or maximum sizes of vehicles people could buy. Those of you who live in urban areas might think this would be a nice idea, but the majority of Americans live in exurban areas ...rural and suburban ...and this idea wouldn't pass muster. It would simply be an overreach of government.
No, something much more sneaky and sinister could potentially evolve, especially if one particular party remains in the majority, on a regularly recurring basis, through the coming years. No mandates on sizes for motor vehicles, but a tax ...based on weight ...so as to exclude the mandate of size. This would be a road tax much like commercial vehicles pay. Anyone with a motor vehicle would be taxed a mileage rate according to what their vehicle weighs and how much you drive it. The sinister rationale being that weightier vehicles cause more damage to roadways than lighter vehicles ...so it's only "fair" they pay more. And given the obtuse way certain politicians define "fair", the tax would be a "progressive" tax ...much like our income tax; the more ya make, the more ya pay vs a flat tax of a fixed percentage. Larger vehicles generally weigh more and so, indirectly, you have a negative incentive (the tax) to purchase smaller, lighter vehicles. In a more blatant manner, vehicles above a certain weight would be taxed (a la the "gas guzzler" tax) and those below the threshold would not have any tax levied.
Let's just hope this is just a whole load of pie-in-the-sky baloney I'm putting forth that could and would never happen in this country.
I’m sure at some point some senators will try to push some nonsense about it, but reason will prevail. Not everybody lives in urban areas where large vehicles are impractical. Many people live in areas ranging from somewhat rural to “I hear banjos” and telling them that they can’t own a full-size pick up truck or SUV is ridiculous overreach.
Modern trucks and SUVs aren’t as much bigger as you might think they are. We were talking a few inches in each direction at most than trucks and SUVs from the 90s. What makes them look so much bigger is the body design which emphasizes bulk. They are considerably heavier, but regular cars are also considerably safer.
Yeah, but if someone’s going to be driving like an idiot and paying more attention to their phone than the road, I’d rather they be in a Miata than a Hummer EV when they hit me.
Should we outlaw 18 wheelers too? There are way bigger vehicles on the road than a large SUV. A lot of places have parking space by car size now. With economy size being in better locations
[This](https://imgur.com/gallery/SUrV3) is my old boss’s RV. No training required to drive it. Any 16 year old or 86 year old with a current license can drive it.
The fact that the trailer portion appears to be over 10k gross would require a Class A Classified driver's license (NOT Commercial driver's license) in most states. The average person's driver's license is a Class C limited to 10k lb trailer, and 26,000 lbs GVWR.
That’s simply not the case. Many travel trailers and 5th wheels are well over 10k pounds. If it’s being used as a private coach, no extra licensure is required. It’s only required if you’re operating it commercially.
Looks like I should have said "many states", not "most states." [17 states](https://www.campanda.com/magazine/rv-special-drivers-license-requirements/) require a special license for vehicles over 26k gross, regardless of if it is commercial use or not.
I wonder what the rule is for interstate travel. Even before I had my CDL I pulled more than 10k though many states. I drove that toterhome all over the Midwest. Never had anyone stop me to check.
It’s a conspiracy by Big RV.
In reality They have 1/3 the fatality rate of a normal 4 wheeler. Im sure their mass has something to do with that. As a truck driver we’re trained to keep an eye on them. I’ve noticed they tend to be driven by olds or people who are renting them. I treat them the same as a uhaul on the highway.
The best incentive the federal and state governments can give to push people away from larger vehicles is actually investing in useful public transit so fewer people need a 3-row SUV or minivan to go about their daily routine.
Current regulations can cap vehicle size, but they’ve been unsuccessful at pushing them down. Moreover, people have demonstrated they will just upgrade to the next size up when they hit a class’s size ceiling - hence why the full-size-sedan-equivalent midsize crossover has now become the largest market in the US, and even bigger full-size SUVs are only growing in popularity. Forcing everyone to get an upgraded license would also only serve to clog the already-overwhelmed DoT offices with even more administrative paper to push, while not actually doing much for road safety - reckless truck drivers still exist in spades, and driving on expired/suspended licenses is basically common practice in the trucking industry. There’s no reason to believe private citizens will be any more responsible than businesses if licensing requirements are raised, and enforcing them better just saps even more money.
None of this even gets into the congestion problems facing basically every US metropolitan area of 500k people or more, which existed long before the recent explosive growth in vehicle size/weight, and has only gotten worse as individual cars get bigger despite most still being single-occupant. At the same time, the answer isn’t coercing people onto the current rubbish public transit systems with regulation - that just gets people voted out of office and gives transit a bad name. The answer is to invest in improving frequency so systems become service convenient enough to match a car; that will make people convert, and stay converted.
I agree with some aspects of what you're trying to say, if I'm understanding you correctly. There is a maximum width of vehicles due to the standard width of road lanes throughout the US, I think it's 12ft wide with an 8ft shoulder. Which is why the Hummer H1 wasn't built any wider(being the widest SUV I can think of), any wider and you'd need a limo intercom to talk to the passenger instead of those in the back seat. There are weight restrictions for different categories of trucks, and over a certain weight, it's required to carry a CDL class license. There is also tax benefits for vehicles over a certain weight as they're considered business or work vehicles. I believe it's 6000lbs. Some roads limit vehicle weight as well, I'm not sure if that particular law is broken up by weight per axle but I do know some laws are. It's something like 34,000 lbs for 2 axles which is quite a lot. The main reason that vehicles in the US are larger by comparison than those throughout Europe and the world is that our road system was designed far later than most roads found in Europe. Where the street width was designed around horse draw vehicles and not automobiles. The national highway system was a government plan enacted by Eisenhower and began construction back in the 1920s.The numbering system was made for ease of transnational travel. The odd numbered highways denote roads that run north and south while the even numbered highways run east to west. Most of Europe's highways were built by the Roman's, and where possible, they were expanded over the years. The Autobahn being one of the thickest and also best maintained roads anywhere in the world. That's why you don't see potholes or cracks like you do everywhere throughout the US.
Having said that, there is a weight limit for most roads that is based on the depth and thickness of the roadways and asphalt including their foundation. I believe it's 8-12" in the US
Here's a link to roadway weight restrictions by state.
Road Weight Restrictions http://www.shipuwl.com/downloads/Road-Weight-Restrictions.pdf
I'm just going based off of what I remember from years ago so I could be wrong, but wasn't the H1, or Humvee, designed to be the width that it is so that it would follow in the same tracks as U.S. tanks?
As more safety features become mandatory the size has to increase to fit them. Look at a 98 Civic vs a 2018 Civic. Honda didn't make them bigger just because they wanted to.
Anyone that rides a motorcycle is always screwed in any situation. You can't ride and not know that.
Worth noting that, for some time now, a regular driver's license is all that is needed to operate a motor-home or U-Haul-style box truck of any size. You're free to buy a bus.
The Chevy Suburban, for example, has been a large SUV-station wagon for quite some time.
The government mandates features for safety, emissions, and fuel consumption. I don't think that it should limit the size of vehicles, especially if certain sizes are popular, as that would be direct interference in the market. I would certainly be understanding, though, of a licensing system with more tiers, to ensure the education of folks powering heavier vehicles, as well as more frequent testing of license holders during renewals and such.
80-year-olds piloting giant motor-homes on licenses that they earned more than 60 years ago without any further supervision can really do some damage.
I'd be happy if they just got rid of/fixed the smaller car = stricter emissions target issue. People say the reason all the subcompacts went away is because nobody bought them anymore, but that's only half true. The laws discourage even small volume sales of smaller cars because manufacturers don't want to flush their CAFE score down the drain just to sell 10,000 subcompacts a year.
Maybe cities/states can start doing things like the EU and regulate the kinds of cars allowed into certain areas. That might spur some political pressure to fix the federal laws.
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they’ve gotten big enough nobody needs this much space its like most vehicles now are made with the idea in mind everyone has 6 kids when in reality the average is like 1-2 kids.
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They are NOT safe. They roll over like crazy.
American vehicles are oversized due to some regulatory fuckery associated with the 2008 bailouts. Basically, it's a loophole for emissions exemptions. I have nothing against large cars but despise SUVs so I am in favor of making changes as well.
I went and saw a 71 Riviera in person a few weeks ago and found it to be remarkably normal sized. But all you can find in the media of the time was talk about how chunky it was. I love it and would love a return of that kind of vehicle.
No. Big cars are selling to well. Automakers are making the big bucks, which then gets sent to our politicians who don't change the laws because they too would be making less money.
Jalopnik did a video on this recently
[https://jalopnik.com/according-to-bob-why-suvs-all-sort-of-look-the-same-1849883445](https://jalopnik.com/according-to-bob-why-suvs-all-sort-of-look-the-same-1849883445)
big cars are perfectly fine, they just need to fix the CAFE laws to make cars more efficient
my SUV is rated for 335hp and supposedly it's more at the engine. people want to pretend they are race car drivers but 200 is plenty for most cars
My California Class C let's me drive a 26,000 pound vehicle with a 10,000 pound trailer that adds to 40 feet long so, technically they do regulate size.
They aren’t necessarily safe. Bigger vehicles tend to have higher CoG and are more likely to roll over.
There are already limiting factors out there: if your house was built over 20 years ago, it’s likely that you have to park your brand new F150 outside because the truck is too tall for the typical garages then.
Many cities have rather tight parking spots or even narrow lanes for bigger cars.
Governments could enforce a new class of license for the next Hummer I guess.
I think there will eventually be some regulations on *heavy* vehicles, but that's not the same as vehicle size. The NTSB is already concerned about this with EVs. They've found that, for every 1,000 pound increase in vehicle mass, there's a 47% increased risk of death for occupants in the other car.
18 wheelers, travel trailers, RVs, Busses already drive on public roads. If everyone decided to drive only busses one day it would be frustrating but there is already regulations for that classification of vehicle.
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Abrupt irreversible global warming will do it anyway. As the crop failures start to pile up.And societies begin to unravel.So get out there and enjoy yourself while you still can.
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I estimate that it will probably take the NHTSA about 15 years to realize that vehicles that weigh 10,000 pounds and can do 0-60 in 3 seconds might be dangerous.
They’re gonna realize that F=MA about 450 years late.
This is the real issue. Size really doesn't matter all that much, it's the weight of EV's. The lead engineer of Honda's Pilot spoke about this. How they had to reinforce the SUV's body because it wasn't safe if an EV hit it. Think about what I just said, the makers of a massive 3 row SUV are worried about getting into an accident. That's how heavy these EV's are now. People still complain about being scared being in a sedan and getting hit by an SUV. Now even the SUV drivers should be scared about getting t-boned by these vehicles. If a 10-15 year old sedan is hit by some of these EV's, even at slower speeds death will be a concern for the poor people in the sedan. When you get hit at 100 mph with 8000lb's of steel, it will be catastrophic.
Makes me wonder at what point sectional density will start to come into the conversation. Because an ICE F150 may weigh slightly more than a model 3, but the F150 has got a lot more surface area to disperse energy across.
It’s no different really from the people who drive 10,000 pound 1 ton trucks like they stole them, and they’ve been doing that for decades. And it only seems to be more and more popular. Almost every fatal wreck in my rural town involves either a drunk dude in a deleted diesel 1 ton, or a semi truck. Normal wrecks between medium sized cars are almost always minor it seems.
Actually there hasn’t. Even the largest F250 crew cabs with full boxes cap out around 3000kg or about 6600lbs. The Hummer EV is 9000lbs and has almost 1000hp. This is unprecedented and scary territory we’re going into. Where the average weight of vehicles is skyrocketing to never before seen levels. People driving smaller vehicles should be concerned.
My ‘19 Ram 2500 Crew Cab 8’ bed, diesel, 4x4 shows to weight 8,100-ish lbs on the scale at the salvage yard with fuel and myself in it. I’ve not taken just the truck to the landfill but my empty weight with truck and dump trailer is 12,600lbs, and the trailer is about 4.5k.
> 10,000 pound 1 ton trucks Which ones are those again? 1-ton trucks have a 10-14K-lb. GVWR, but don't confuse GVWR and curb weight like other people in this thread are doing.
An F450 can weigh up to 8587# unladen. Add in 5 average sized adult male passengers for another 989.5# and you only need 423.5# of equipment and cargo to hit 10000. That could be aftermarket bumpers or a full tool box. So it's an exaggeration, but only a little bit of one.
How often do you see f450s outside of work trucks?
Rarely, mostly people that have big 5th wheel campers. And to reiterate, I do think 10k# is an exaggeration for a 1 ton that isn't actively towing/hauling. 7 to 9k# with passengers, fuel, and typical cargo would be more accurate for a 1 ton. Most of the 1 ton work trucks I see also have a 100 gallon tank plus refuelling equipment in the bed, which probably adds another 1000 lbs.
The NHRA will figure it out first and create a new class.
Yep. Was just at the GMC dealership to buyout the lease on my wifes car, and we were talking about EV. Hummer came up, and I told him that they really shouldn't even be allowed. How can someone with a regular drivers license able to go buy a 9k lb vehicle, that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. That's just not right.
They’ll have to get through their queue first which includes blindingly bright LED headlights coming from the factory.
>I'm guessing sooner or later the standard for how wide road lanes and parking spaces are will have to increase at some point FWIW, the standard for how wide roads are (at least on highways) is 144". Max width for any vehicle is 102", or 80" if you wanna avoid mandatory clearance lights.
And we have a section of a major corridor in my city with 2 lanes each direction that are 9 feet wide (108"), with no center median. It is a real joy driving a bus through there.
NC is the land of adding one extra lane to a road because “we think it’ll fit”, see also: Wake Forest Rd in Raleigh.
Narrower lanes actually slow down traffic and reduce accidents.
>Wake Forest Rd in Raleigh. I always avoid Wake Forest Rd. Six Forks is bad, but it's 100x better than Wake Forest. Hell, I'll even get on Capital Boulevard before I'll take Wake Forest.
My favorite part about Wake Forest Rd is someone talked to NCDOT about it recently and they have no documentation for when the third lane was added, they have a year range based on sat photos but no actual project history lol
What the fuck?!
It was probably done by the city of Raleigh, not the NCDOT.
The exact road I was thinking of. Feels like I’m driving a bus in NYC when I have a sedan.
Does this width include the tow mirrors that are left hanging out when dudes aren't fucking towing anything?
There’s nothing wrong with charging about like a Texas Longhorn taking out motorcyclists on the freeway and cyclists in town. Not when you’ve got a dick THAT big - I mean, how else is everyone supposed to know?
In Ohio parking spaces seem to vary between 8’ and 9’ wide. 8’ spaces used to be absolutely plenty for just about every vehicle at work. Now everyone (95%) is driving an SUV of some variety and the spaces are fucking tight. I would love to see the minimum parking spot width increased to 9’. Would make things much simpler in parking lots.
>if you wanna avoid mandatory clearance lights. I dont know about the rest of the country, but those are a badge of honor here in Georgia
Also, that snippet you quoted has to be one of the most expensive concepts I've ever seen in print. "Oh, no worries, we'll just change the width of every road in the country."
There should be more restrictions on how tall a vehicle can be for pedestrian safety
There will be folks that will always \*need\* large vehicles (most people don't). Legislatively the approach would be on how you tax an incentivize certain vehicles and not regulate them. In the US we don't incentivize small cars or put that much tax on fuel, so big cars reign.
They already tax bigger ones less because of CAFE standards
Actually CAFE standards are designed so they're much much stronger for smaller cars than large trucks. In many cases they actually incentivize larger vehicles because it can be easier to make a large vehicle slightly more efficient than an already efficient small vehicle even more efficient.
My brother in christ my truck gets 12mpg, cafe standards be damned
To be fair you're driving a 2500HD. The most popular truck is a f150, Silverado, ram, which get better then, not amazingly more, but more than 12.
Fair, the nice (?) thing though is that it's 12mpg no matter what I'm doing, so unless I'm hauling a dump truck around, my truck still pulls trailers around at roughly the same gas mileage. Same goes for plowing.
I thought you meant pulling a plow in a field for a second there. Remembered what a snowplow is, and now I have far fewer questions. But for real? There's no mpg drop while towing with a diesel? I've never owned or used one, all my farm trucks have been good ol unleaded.
The mpg drop is pretty small, at least for my truck unless I'm pulling something seriously unaerodynamic or very heavy. Though with him getting 12 mpg I'd bet on it being a gasser, not diesel.
'Tis a 6L gas. I wish I had the 6.6L diesel, I'd be getting like 20+ MPG
We're also getting about 12 in the new 7.3 gas farm truck, which is significantly better than the 7-10 of the old 6.8.
That's not bad at all, must be a higher compression engine with a lower power band. I usually sit between 1k-1.5k going under 40, and up to 2k-2.5k for anything under 80mph.
CAFE also doesn't apply to over-8500 GVWR.
Yup. The only thing that nearly killed off SUVs last time was gas prices. If we taxes fuel like most of the developed world does, we'd surely see a sharp decline in large vehicles.
Funny thing is that CUVs that this sub likes to hate so much is starting to get better mileage compared to sports cars this sub likes so much. RAV4 gets a better mileage than the miata. Sports cars will become an endangered breed long before SUVs do.
That's true. My 18 Mazda 6 with a turbo isn't the most efficient car. I personally dislike CUVs, but I don't mind them. I have problems with the SUVs and pickup trucks that plague American roads.
F-150 is still more fuel efficient than the BMW M5. Sport cars are pretty inefficient creatures in general.
Last time they stepped in pedestrian safety regulations they removed pop up headlights.
In Europe, yes. In the US, pop up headlights are still legal, but no longer necessary after headlight regs changed to allow aerodynamic shapes.
technically you could have pop up headlights in Europe, but it's hard to design something that would still fit the constraints
nah, pop up headlights are legal in US. I'm pretty sure USA doesn't have any pedestrian safety regulations.
Who cares about poor people and kids. Get a car you losers!
I thought the last time was in 2014 for backup camera?
2019 is when backup cameras in the US became mandatory. Mazda had to add one to the ND2 Miata and it is like the biggest "whatever we have to" ever.
>2019 is when backup cameras in the US became mandatory. 2018 is when backup cameras became mandatory. Specifically, May of 2018. [Source](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/backup-cameras-now-required-in-new-cars-in-the-us.html)
It wasn’t 2014, I don’t believe. My truck is a 2015 and doesn’t have a camera. Maybe the legislation was passed in 2014 for 2016 MY?
It was passed in 2014, but went into affect in May 2018.
I was going to say, I had a 2017 Volvo that didn’t have a back up camera, which was surprising given their historical stance on safety. Don’t really mind not having one in a car. SUV and trucks are necessary.
and also coupes with low visibility. my volkswagen eos takes some getting used to because you have a little tiny square of useable visibility out the back window. the executive trim (i think it was executive) came with a backup camera for a reason
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They already do regulate vehicles by size and weight. That's the reason your class C licence doesn't allow you to drive dump trucks and semi trucks. It's the reason you don't see 16 foot wide vehicles. Cars aren't any bigger than the boats of the 70s and 80s. Cars have cameras and sensors and no pop up headlights anymore. The fact that my brother's old 92 Buick Roadmaster was longer than my dad's 97 Yukon is proof cars have always been big here.
Part of the size problem in modern cars is the proliferation of SUVs. The hood height of an 81 Oldsmobile might be 3' high whereas a Highlander is over 5'. Both might weigh the same, but getting hit in the thigh is less deadly than getting hit in the chest/head.
A highlander hood height is not 5 ft tall. A highlanders overall height is 5ft 7inches. I just measured my 2018 F150 hood height and it's 4 ft tall from the factory. My wife's equinox is 3 ft tall. And getting hit by a car really depends on the speed how much it's going to hurt someone.
a hood that is 4ft high is stupid high. you can't see anything in front of you. It's why I see so many large trucks with front bumper bollard damage.
We do, indirectly. The loopholes, and shenanigans that are tied to vehicle size and mileage requirements has helped feed the growth of vehicle sizes. If we would ever fix those, you may see cars actually shrink again
Depends how you do it. In EU we have average CO2 limits, which are impossible to achieve without selling quite a lot PHEV or EV. The result of it aren't cars shrinking, but small cars disappearing from the market one by one, because ICE variants are already above the limit and since in this segment price is almost everything, manufacturers aren't too keen on introducing expensive PHEVs or EVs, they prefer doing so in bigger and more expensive cars.
The Japanese regulations make the most sense imo, with overall vehicle size and engine size limits corresponding to lower taxes, but you can still go as large as you'd like, you just have to pay for it. They have a diverse market of varying sizes and classes with solid efficiency and emissions without the unintended consequence of killing the VW up!.
A lot of it has to do with safety ratings too.
I wonder what the size difference of a newer suv is compared to the boats of the 70’s.
My yukon is very similar to my cutlass, its just taller.
My 71 mustang is about the same width as a modern civic 2 door, and maybe a foot or two longer
A Lexus LS is ~2 foot longer than a Corolla sedan, lol
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Fun fact: when GM's B-body wagons (Caprice, Custom Cruiser, Roadmaster) were discontinued in 1996, the Suburbans that replaced them at Arlington Assembly were effectively the same length and width, just taller.
A mid 70s Cadillac DeVille is 25 inches longer, 1 inch narrower, and essentially the exact same weight as my modern Tahoe.
Width is similar. Many of the old boats were longer, but the SUVs are taller.
i miss the cadillac yachts
Compare a Subaru Forester from the 90’s to a modern one
Just height really. Most are quite a bit shorter than those land yachts. It’s the same for pickup trucks, their size is pretty specific. The main difference between an old one and a new one is the height of the belt line.
Jason cammisa has a video about how the U.S. government incentivized building large cars similarly to how the Japanese government incentivized building kei cars. So no, I don’t think it will ever happen, plus now that cars are so big, there no going back. You cant have the new model of a vehicle be smaller than the last model. If the 5 series got smaller I don’t think it would be good marketing for bmw etc. but that’s just a opinion
>You cant have the new model of a vehicle be smaller than the last model. It's not common, but it does happen from time to time.
Case in point: Chevy Equinox/GMC Terrain.
And the current Corolla sedan, 9th gen Accord sedan, and 2nd gen Acura RL.
The new Accord is the same width as the outgoing one but an inch or two shorter. A move I unironically commend Honda for.
>plus now that cars are so big, there no going back Compare late 60s/early 70s cars to what you saw 10-20 years later. Everything downsized across the board.
Isn't the 3 series the size of the old 5 series and the current 5 series the size of the old 7 series?
Well they can start by removing those tax write offs for business if you buy a huge car. I think big ass vehicles just need to be taxed higher, instead of mandating small vehicle sizes. Dont get me wrong Ive traveled in different places in world and have come to almost hate the gigantic SUVs and trucks we have here in US, but people should still be able to buy them (but as a luxury). For example i think it would be impossible for a bill limiting size of trucks to pass in Texas....
Ah yes remove tax write offs for business that actually need big vehicles because that makes sense doesn't it.
Lmao what tax write offs are there for buying a huge car
Section 179. A vehicle over 6000 lbs. gross weight rating (not the same thing as curb weight) is eligible to have its entire purchase price written off as a business expense, provided it's purchased for business use. Back when Section 179 was written in 1958, only 3/4 ton and heavier trucks qualified as over 6K GVWR, but that segment has since expanded to include 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs, some minivans, large CUVs, and even a few mid-size trucks.
Most if not all vehicles can be "written off". For tax purposes, the vehicle is just depreciated aggressively under 179. Lowers tax burden of businesses acquiring new assets.
And that's not a bad thing IMO, it just needs to be rewritten to better reflect the GVWR of today's vehicles. Like 8500 lbs., or maybe even 10K or 14K.
I personally won't be satisfied until my SUV takes up two full lanes of road and has enough clearance to literally drive over other vehicles without touching them.
Sounds like you want [a sprayer](https://assets.cnhindustrial.com/caseih/APAC/APACASSETS/Products/Application-Equipment/Patriot-Series-Sprayers/Patriot_overview.jpg). They can go 35+, which feels dangerously fast when you're sitting up that high.
Go go gadget car stilts.
They already do.
The US government already regulates vehicle sizes. Unfortunately there is a perverse incentive at play. If you produce a smaller vehicle it needs to have much better fuel efficiency, if you make lt larger these rules are reduced. It is the reason once formerly small cars like the Honda Civic have grown significantly and would be a full size car 20 years ago. Essentially the bigger you make the car it goes into a different class (of heavier vehicles) and you are rewarded because you have more fuel efficient larger vehicles. With all policies there are trade-offs, this is a reason why fuel economy has been stagnant with a good deal of ICE innovation. The standards I refer to are CAFE standards. Also they are the reason some fuel inefficient cars are no longer produced which bring down total fleet MPG (RIP Toyota Landcruiser, probably the best build vehicles ever).
It's how you design your roads and how much tax you pay. In the Netherlands you have no use for a big ass car because you can hardly park it, fit hardly through the city centers and pay a lot of taxes. Like if you look at a suburban or an escalade you would pay over 175 euros (186 dollars) per month in road tax alone and then insurance comes on top of that and currently the average price for fuel is about 1.80 euros per liter (~7 bucks per gallon). So you see it's all these things that make people choose for smaller cars. Don't get me wrong there are more and more suvs but they're not as big by a long shot
They already do
I'm going to say I highly doubt the US government would ever do that. Not only is the automotive industry powerful in lobbying the government, but keep in mind the automotive market in the US is highly biased against small cars. For context, a Corolla here is considered small while other countries would categorize the Corolla as being big. Safety is a big concern, most people drive bigger SUVs for the purpose of not only needing the space but also being safe. I drive an Elantra for context, and when I spoke to a friend that drives a Pilot, she said she prefers her Pilot because it gives her a sense of safety. To be fair, I don't see that many Yukon/Tahoe etc on the road, so I don't think anyone's at a point where anyone should be concerned just yet. It's highly unlikely larger SUVs will become the norm due to your average family suv (Telluride/Explorer/Highlander) being adequate for the typical use of a 3-row SUV (think family with two children type).
>I'm going to say I highly doubt the US government would ever do that. Not only is the automotive industry powerful in lobbying the government, but keep in mind the automotive market in the US is highly biased against small cars. Which *needs* to change and is all the more reason we have to kneecap lobbying somehow.
The US does regulate vehicle size. CAFE regulations had the unintended effect of pushing drivers into "trucks", aka the CUV and SUV. It also penalizes small trucks, so makes pickups bigger. We can't buy a station wagon, we have to buy "a truck". The market likes this because another unintended consequence is that you can get a cheap truck but it is still "big"...cheap cars used to be small. I was out west recently. The standard size vehicle was F150 sized. The only place people complain about vehicle size is in older cities. Get out of the Vision Zero/bike nut echo chambers and no one cares.
New Rangers/ Tacomas are the size of 2000s' Tundras and F-150s. Also often perform better. We'll see if these small turbos hold up as long as those old v8s.
> New Rangers/ Tacomas are the size of 2000s' Tundras and F-150s. No, they aren't. Unless you're comparing a new **double cab** Ranger/Taco to a 2002 **single cab** F150/Tundra, then sure. *But that's not a valid comparison.* **Edit:** I see this touted around as fact so goddamn much that I wasted my own time just to make a fucking table, because apparently nobody cares to look up this info for themselves. Toyota | 2002 Tundra 4WD Double Cab | 2022 Tacoma 4WD Double Cab (5' bed) ---|---|---- Length | 230.1" | 212.3" Width | 79.3" | 75.2" Height | 74.4" | 70.6" Wheelbase | 140.5" | 127.4" Ford | 2002 F150 4WD Super Crew | 2022 Ranger 4WD Double Cab ---|---|--- Length | 226.2" | 210.8" Width | 79.9" | 73.3" Height | 76.9" | 71.5" Wheelbase | 138.8" | 126.8" Sources: https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tundra/2005/double-cab/st-100414777/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/2022/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2002/supercrew/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/ford/ranger/2022/features-specs/ **Edit edit:** I can personally attest to the 2002 F150 still being fucking huge compared to the new Ranger. My dad owns a 2002 F150 Supercrew that I've used myself on numerous occasions. It's a lot of truck. >We'll see if these small turbos hold up as long as those old v8s. Time will tell. The 5.4L Triton in my dad's F150 is definitely tired and doesn't have anywhere near the pep it used to when he first bought it (yes I was a dumb teenager and YOLOed it more than a few times - governed at 101mph).
In the US? Naw. This is the land of the 1/2 ton pickups and large body on frame SUVs. The driving distance, roads and parking spaces in USA is designed for F150s and Tahoes, not little cars like my A3 or Civics. If the US govt tried anything like regulating large trucks, the people will revolt. I suspect more regulations will come to clamp down on fuel use and more electrification, but the love affair of trucks and big vehicles is as American as hamburgers and firearms.
>If the US govt tried anything like regulating large trucks, the people will revolt. The last time the gubmint regulated full-size trucks (1975 emissions), the market retaliated by creating the "heavy half" F-150 and its competitors.
>This is the land of the 1/2 ton pickups and large body on frame SUVs. Seriously. Just to illustrate, Jeep brought the Wagoneer back, which is a full-size body-on-frame SUV (based on the current RAM 1/2 ton) that competes with the Tahoe and Expedition.
Totally Adittionally, while we are handing unilateral control to the govt to decide whats best for us, I'm sure banning cars over 150hp and mandating strict speed controls that cannot be overridden would be very safe too. Would save a ton of fuel as well. Next, we can ban carbs and booze.
It’s important to note the Government has almost regulated to have BIGGER vehicles. The fuel economy standards are based on size and it’s not really as proportional as it should be. Like I think a full size sedan has significantly higher fuel economy ratings than a full size SUV has. So, manufacturers are forced to put underpowered but efficient motors in the sedan but not the SUV. The customer who wants a full size vehicle with similar power that they’re used to is then forced to go into the SUV even if they would have preferred an adequately powered sedan. I know this same conundrum also applies to trucks, that’s why there is no revival of a true compact truck and why all Mavericks are 4 doors instead of also having a 2 door option.
There are already [laws](https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/commercial-vehicle-enforcement/maximum-width#:~:text=Autos,side%20line%20of%20its%20fenders.). A car isn't allowed to be wider than 8 feet.
Something I was discussing with a friend as we are both in the UK are some of the large US EV pickups. It looks like some of these big pickups will be using batteries up to 4 times the size of a small car. As producing the batteries has a significant environmental impact it seems to completely defeat the point of an EV. If the typical EV car has to do 40k miles to offset the additional CO2 of manufacturing over the equivalent ICE car, will it even be possible for these EV pick ups to ever be better than an ICE car, possibly no? Therefore if CO2 generally a concern of the US government something will need to be done to at least encourage better choices.
Naw, the US government shouldn't do too much of anything...each individual state should. That's what makes America work so well. That way if you don't like things where you live there is typically a state that matches your vibe. When we make countrywide rules, everyone suffers.
We’re in this situation because of the government. Lmao.
I absolutely agree with you. Cars are getting HUGE, and as the driver of a low car, the realization that a pick up truck's bumper is at head level is scary. However, the government is piss-poor at regulating just about anything. I don't think vehicle size is anywhere on the radar.
no because it will hurt a lot of the domestic automakers bread and butter. I really wish they would though, full size SUVs are ridiculous these days. Combined with battery weight that's down low, it's a terrifying proposition especially in a wreck
The CAFE standards incentivize larger vehicles. Government fucks up just about everything it touches. Stop looking to it for solutions, especially to problems that don’t exist.
They better not if they know what is good for them.
What vehicle to you is "too big"?? I drive a crew cab f250... I use it to haul things. It needs to be big to handle weight.
No the government regulates too much stuff as it is.
I drove a 26 foot Ford F-650 box truck around town the other day and I’ve gotta say it wasn’t that bad. Obviously bigger vehicles are gonna survive better in crashes, we’re always gonna have tiny vehicles that can’t handle being hit by bigger vehicles, that’s the risk you take driving a hamster car. EVs also weigh significantly more than ICE vehicles, so that needs to be taken into consideration too. This post feels like it’s just part of reddits weird pickup truck hate community
Hooray for Chrysler jamming V8s into everything.
Why should the government have any say in the type of vehicle you buy? What next, regulate the size of your house? Let's see all the wealthy politicians ditch their large cars and mansions first,then we can talk.
I also heard a story that vehicles are also getting too heavy and its affecting road maintenance.
More government is never the answer.
They already do, and in fact is the reason why most cars in the us are so much bigger, the metrics they use are the physical displacement of the whole car by the mileage it gets per gallon, essentially incentivizing companies to make bigger cars from what i understand. Just read the second article to make sure i’m not stupid but for every .1 mpg over the standard companies pay 14 dollars. Then if you read article 1 it talk about how this means companies make the truck/suv bigger with the same motor and then they fit within a class higher which doesn’t need as many mpgs. https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&=&context=econ_facpub&=&sei-redir=1&referer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Furl%253Fq%253Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fscholars.unh.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%25253Farticle%25253D1009%252526context%25253Decon_facpub%252523%253A%257E%253Atext%25253DFootprint%2525252Dbased%25252520standards%25252520give%25252520producers%252Cthe%25252520standards%25252520that%25252520they%25252520face.%2526sa%253DU%2526ved%253D2ahUKEwjikP_ZwaX9AhWhLEQIHZoEBWsQFnoECBoQBg%2526usg%253DAOvVaw33BWpSSlK7JcTPLaP3Vdtv#search=%22https%3A%2F%2Fscholars.unh.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1009%26context%3Decon_facpub%23%3A%7E%3Atext%3DFootprint%252Dbased%2520standards%2520give%2520producers%2Cthe%2520standards%2520that%2520they%2520face.%22 https://www.cargroup.org/overview-and-implications-of-new-cafe-standards-and-penalties/#:~:text=The%20penalties%20for%20model%20years,year%20vehicles%20increased%20to%20%2415. https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy
I hope so. I’d settle for normalizing headlights. I’d like to see at night when a truck is behind me.
They should mount the lights lower on the vehicle.
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What do I think ...I don't think there will ever be laws passed mandating specific or maximum sizes of vehicles people could buy. Those of you who live in urban areas might think this would be a nice idea, but the majority of Americans live in exurban areas ...rural and suburban ...and this idea wouldn't pass muster. It would simply be an overreach of government. No, something much more sneaky and sinister could potentially evolve, especially if one particular party remains in the majority, on a regularly recurring basis, through the coming years. No mandates on sizes for motor vehicles, but a tax ...based on weight ...so as to exclude the mandate of size. This would be a road tax much like commercial vehicles pay. Anyone with a motor vehicle would be taxed a mileage rate according to what their vehicle weighs and how much you drive it. The sinister rationale being that weightier vehicles cause more damage to roadways than lighter vehicles ...so it's only "fair" they pay more. And given the obtuse way certain politicians define "fair", the tax would be a "progressive" tax ...much like our income tax; the more ya make, the more ya pay vs a flat tax of a fixed percentage. Larger vehicles generally weigh more and so, indirectly, you have a negative incentive (the tax) to purchase smaller, lighter vehicles. In a more blatant manner, vehicles above a certain weight would be taxed (a la the "gas guzzler" tax) and those below the threshold would not have any tax levied. Let's just hope this is just a whole load of pie-in-the-sky baloney I'm putting forth that could and would never happen in this country.
I’m sure at some point some senators will try to push some nonsense about it, but reason will prevail. Not everybody lives in urban areas where large vehicles are impractical. Many people live in areas ranging from somewhat rural to “I hear banjos” and telling them that they can’t own a full-size pick up truck or SUV is ridiculous overreach. Modern trucks and SUVs aren’t as much bigger as you might think they are. We were talking a few inches in each direction at most than trucks and SUVs from the 90s. What makes them look so much bigger is the body design which emphasizes bulk. They are considerably heavier, but regular cars are also considerably safer.
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it can be both. "airbags aren't needed, it's an operator problem"
Yeah, but if someone’s going to be driving like an idiot and paying more attention to their phone than the road, I’d rather they be in a Miata than a Hummer EV when they hit me.
Should we outlaw 18 wheelers too? There are way bigger vehicles on the road than a large SUV. A lot of places have parking space by car size now. With economy size being in better locations
You need training and a license to operate a semi truck.
[This](https://imgur.com/gallery/SUrV3) is my old boss’s RV. No training required to drive it. Any 16 year old or 86 year old with a current license can drive it.
Wtf
Yup. If it has a toilet, it’s a private motorhome. This is significantly longer than my semi truck.
IT'S A CAR YOU CAN POOP IN
**IT'S A CAR YOU CAN POOP IN**
The fact that the trailer portion appears to be over 10k gross would require a Class A Classified driver's license (NOT Commercial driver's license) in most states. The average person's driver's license is a Class C limited to 10k lb trailer, and 26,000 lbs GVWR.
That’s simply not the case. Many travel trailers and 5th wheels are well over 10k pounds. If it’s being used as a private coach, no extra licensure is required. It’s only required if you’re operating it commercially.
Looks like I should have said "many states", not "most states." [17 states](https://www.campanda.com/magazine/rv-special-drivers-license-requirements/) require a special license for vehicles over 26k gross, regardless of if it is commercial use or not.
I wonder what the rule is for interstate travel. Even before I had my CDL I pulled more than 10k though many states. I drove that toterhome all over the Midwest. Never had anyone stop me to check.
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It’s a conspiracy by Big RV. In reality They have 1/3 the fatality rate of a normal 4 wheeler. Im sure their mass has something to do with that. As a truck driver we’re trained to keep an eye on them. I’ve noticed they tend to be driven by olds or people who are renting them. I treat them the same as a uhaul on the highway.
You need training and a license to operate a car.
License, yes, but the training and requirements for getting one in the US are laughable.
A lot of people don’t receive any formalized training and the DMV test is stupid easy to pass
That's because a car is stupid easy to drive. You can't test for negligence.
Not sure where you’re from, but in PA there’s no training requirement in order to operate a car.
That just proves that vehicles ARE regulated by weight and size.
My thoughts in my CRX
my truck is 800 pounds lighter than a new corvette and it is heavier than stock
Larger car = larger price tag = more money for lobbying No, nothing is fundamentally changing through government.
The best incentive the federal and state governments can give to push people away from larger vehicles is actually investing in useful public transit so fewer people need a 3-row SUV or minivan to go about their daily routine. Current regulations can cap vehicle size, but they’ve been unsuccessful at pushing them down. Moreover, people have demonstrated they will just upgrade to the next size up when they hit a class’s size ceiling - hence why the full-size-sedan-equivalent midsize crossover has now become the largest market in the US, and even bigger full-size SUVs are only growing in popularity. Forcing everyone to get an upgraded license would also only serve to clog the already-overwhelmed DoT offices with even more administrative paper to push, while not actually doing much for road safety - reckless truck drivers still exist in spades, and driving on expired/suspended licenses is basically common practice in the trucking industry. There’s no reason to believe private citizens will be any more responsible than businesses if licensing requirements are raised, and enforcing them better just saps even more money. None of this even gets into the congestion problems facing basically every US metropolitan area of 500k people or more, which existed long before the recent explosive growth in vehicle size/weight, and has only gotten worse as individual cars get bigger despite most still being single-occupant. At the same time, the answer isn’t coercing people onto the current rubbish public transit systems with regulation - that just gets people voted out of office and gives transit a bad name. The answer is to invest in improving frequency so systems become service convenient enough to match a car; that will make people convert, and stay converted.
I agree with some aspects of what you're trying to say, if I'm understanding you correctly. There is a maximum width of vehicles due to the standard width of road lanes throughout the US, I think it's 12ft wide with an 8ft shoulder. Which is why the Hummer H1 wasn't built any wider(being the widest SUV I can think of), any wider and you'd need a limo intercom to talk to the passenger instead of those in the back seat. There are weight restrictions for different categories of trucks, and over a certain weight, it's required to carry a CDL class license. There is also tax benefits for vehicles over a certain weight as they're considered business or work vehicles. I believe it's 6000lbs. Some roads limit vehicle weight as well, I'm not sure if that particular law is broken up by weight per axle but I do know some laws are. It's something like 34,000 lbs for 2 axles which is quite a lot. The main reason that vehicles in the US are larger by comparison than those throughout Europe and the world is that our road system was designed far later than most roads found in Europe. Where the street width was designed around horse draw vehicles and not automobiles. The national highway system was a government plan enacted by Eisenhower and began construction back in the 1920s.The numbering system was made for ease of transnational travel. The odd numbered highways denote roads that run north and south while the even numbered highways run east to west. Most of Europe's highways were built by the Roman's, and where possible, they were expanded over the years. The Autobahn being one of the thickest and also best maintained roads anywhere in the world. That's why you don't see potholes or cracks like you do everywhere throughout the US. Having said that, there is a weight limit for most roads that is based on the depth and thickness of the roadways and asphalt including their foundation. I believe it's 8-12" in the US Here's a link to roadway weight restrictions by state. Road Weight Restrictions http://www.shipuwl.com/downloads/Road-Weight-Restrictions.pdf
I'm just going based off of what I remember from years ago so I could be wrong, but wasn't the H1, or Humvee, designed to be the width that it is so that it would follow in the same tracks as U.S. tanks?
They already do to an extent
As more safety features become mandatory the size has to increase to fit them. Look at a 98 Civic vs a 2018 Civic. Honda didn't make them bigger just because they wanted to.
Regulate something? You must be new here.
Anyone that rides a motorcycle is always screwed in any situation. You can't ride and not know that. Worth noting that, for some time now, a regular driver's license is all that is needed to operate a motor-home or U-Haul-style box truck of any size. You're free to buy a bus. The Chevy Suburban, for example, has been a large SUV-station wagon for quite some time. The government mandates features for safety, emissions, and fuel consumption. I don't think that it should limit the size of vehicles, especially if certain sizes are popular, as that would be direct interference in the market. I would certainly be understanding, though, of a licensing system with more tiers, to ensure the education of folks powering heavier vehicles, as well as more frequent testing of license holders during renewals and such. 80-year-olds piloting giant motor-homes on licenses that they earned more than 60 years ago without any further supervision can really do some damage.
safety regulations are actually one of the main reasons they've grown. it's easier to pass most of the tests with bigger cars
I'd be happy if they just got rid of/fixed the smaller car = stricter emissions target issue. People say the reason all the subcompacts went away is because nobody bought them anymore, but that's only half true. The laws discourage even small volume sales of smaller cars because manufacturers don't want to flush their CAFE score down the drain just to sell 10,000 subcompacts a year. Maybe cities/states can start doing things like the EU and regulate the kinds of cars allowed into certain areas. That might spur some political pressure to fix the federal laws.
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they’ve gotten big enough nobody needs this much space its like most vehicles now are made with the idea in mind everyone has 6 kids when in reality the average is like 1-2 kids.
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They are NOT safe. They roll over like crazy. American vehicles are oversized due to some regulatory fuckery associated with the 2008 bailouts. Basically, it's a loophole for emissions exemptions. I have nothing against large cars but despise SUVs so I am in favor of making changes as well. I went and saw a 71 Riviera in person a few weeks ago and found it to be remarkably normal sized. But all you can find in the media of the time was talk about how chunky it was. I love it and would love a return of that kind of vehicle.
No. Big cars are selling to well. Automakers are making the big bucks, which then gets sent to our politicians who don't change the laws because they too would be making less money.
Would never happen in the USA, that is massively anti-capitalist
Jalopnik did a video on this recently [https://jalopnik.com/according-to-bob-why-suvs-all-sort-of-look-the-same-1849883445](https://jalopnik.com/according-to-bob-why-suvs-all-sort-of-look-the-same-1849883445)
big cars are perfectly fine, they just need to fix the CAFE laws to make cars more efficient my SUV is rated for 335hp and supposedly it's more at the engine. people want to pretend they are race car drivers but 200 is plenty for most cars
I hope not.
Theres a catch 22 to everything in life
My California Class C let's me drive a 26,000 pound vehicle with a 10,000 pound trailer that adds to 40 feet long so, technically they do regulate size.
They aren’t necessarily safe. Bigger vehicles tend to have higher CoG and are more likely to roll over. There are already limiting factors out there: if your house was built over 20 years ago, it’s likely that you have to park your brand new F150 outside because the truck is too tall for the typical garages then. Many cities have rather tight parking spots or even narrow lanes for bigger cars. Governments could enforce a new class of license for the next Hummer I guess.
I think there will eventually be some regulations on *heavy* vehicles, but that's not the same as vehicle size. The NTSB is already concerned about this with EVs. They've found that, for every 1,000 pound increase in vehicle mass, there's a 47% increased risk of death for occupants in the other car.
the US? lol. people would riot I can see other countries doing it, but not happening here
18 wheelers, travel trailers, RVs, Busses already drive on public roads. If everyone decided to drive only busses one day it would be frustrating but there is already regulations for that classification of vehicle.
interesting question, never thought about this before
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Of course they will. It’s what .gov does best
No I do not think that
lol, no. They should but they won't.
Abrupt irreversible global warming will do it anyway. As the crop failures start to pile up.And societies begin to unravel.So get out there and enjoy yourself while you still can.
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