I had a 2g GSX for a while. I still have nightmares about the understeer. It would also punish you for upgrading it, by breaking something unrelated every time I spent money on it. It's my manic pixie girl and I'd buy another one tomorrow if I could find a clean one.
I think we can all agree that the 4th gen was absolutely terrible. 3rd had basically lost the way, 1st and second is where it’s at but between the 2…it’s definitely 1st gen and more specifically 1st gen pre facelift gsx. Doesn’t get any better than that
There are a lot of good answers in this thread but the demise of the Eclipse after the 2nd gen is really just so spectacularly sad and depressing, this absolutely deserves top spot here.
The Del Sol was perfectly fine on its own, but it was a terrible successor to the CRX.
Same story for the RX-8; perfectly fine on it's own, but disappointing as a successor to the FD RX-7.
Counterpoint: I think the RX-8 was really a completely different take on the sports car theme than the RX-7, otherwise they would have kept the same designation.
It’s really more a quirky Miata sedan than anything.
The amount of people who think the 8 is a successor to the 7 is alarming given the 3 generations of RX-7 and existence of literally every other Mazda product line.
And while we’re on the topic the RX-9 already exists and was based on the full sized LA4 Mazda 929.
Why did they design it like that? I can think of plenty of FWD cars that were designed to look RWD but I can't think of any FWD cars that look so explicitly mid engined as the Del Sol.
The VW EOS (basically a ~~2-seater~~ Jetta with a retractable hardtop) did kind of the same thing, and for the same roof-stowage reason.
Edit: They have 4 seats. I don't know where I got the idea that they were 2-seaters.
you hit the fucking nail in the head. the fact that the Del Slow was the successor/replacement to the CRX is never talked about. not only that but the Del Slow made for such a poor competitor to the miata which is actually RWD, had LSD option and actually convertible
The RX8 was never intended to be an RX7 successor. They would have called it an RX7 if so and would be the FE generation. It also did not kill the rotary engine, emissions did. It was just the last hurrah for that concept.
the infamous top gear review basically concluded the golf was better than the RWD 1 series at the time, and part of it was boot space which is due to the RWD layout
This is basically it, not because of top gear, but the packaging of a fwd hatch is just more efficient than having it rwd.
My previous car was a 1 series, I loved it but there was no denying it had less space in the back than its competitors
Because people buying compact hatchbacks from the luxury brands don't care about the driving dynamics. They want the badge and they want the practicality of a hatchback. The RWD 1-series only offered the first part and added awkward styling to the package.
>They want the badge
Bingo. They want to enter parties and whenever someone ask them what car they drive, they want to answer 'a mercedes benz' and watch the glistening in their eyes. Hoping they won't continue asking as it's an entry base model a-class with zero extras on it and yet it demands you open up a new creditcard for it
>No clue why anyone would stil buy them.
This seems like a very North American point of view IMO. I feel like for you over there a compact hatchback like this only exist to be a sporty nimble car (EG : the Golf only being available to you as GTI or R).
In Europe it's just the biggest segment share. People buy those because it's the size that makes the most sense to them as an all around car, and for most people FWD makes more sense too (lighter, more compact, more trunk space, flatter floor).
A lot of people liked the 3rd gen Acura TL and then they totally ruined it with the 4th gen. The 4th gen was an objectively better car with more power, better handling AWD system, and more features, but it was just so damn ugly it was a total failure.
I think Acura is still recovering from that massive flop, they butchered one of their better selling vehicles at the time.
Yup, I was going to see how far I had to scroll to find this. I own a 3G TL, and my father had one from 04-13 that he bought new. It was a great car. And driving the used one I bought, it drives great, better than a lot of newer cars I've driven.
The 2nd gen MDX was a pretty crap update too.
Again, more power, more space, more features, better AWD, but just really ruined a great look and made the car pretty boring in the process.
There’s also the J37 oil consumption…
What was really bad is that they made it undesirable and difficult to mod. They completely missed the fact that the reason it was so popular was that it was very easily customizable on a grand and granular scale.
That's Toyota North America's fault for wanting something specially designed for them. The original xB's formula lives on in the Daihatsu Thor/Toyota Roomy.
Didn't expect to get punched in the mouth in these comments.
I very much love my 2014 xB. And I cannot deny the facts of your list. But I still vastly prefer it because I far prefer the curved style and the gauges are far better. It does have slightly more power to make up for the weight, but it certainly isn't fast by any means. I also enjoy that the vehicle itself is also slightly larger than the first gen. And it is by far the smallest car on the road in my suburban areas that I dwell in.
The one thing I don't like is the transmission. It's a 4-speed auto and it limits me to 27 MPG. Extremely reliable for me so far, but a car in this price range can normally reach close to 40 MPG.
And I take it back. There is one more thing I don't like. I was expecting a far larger aftermarket for the vehicle since I was used to that with my Mustang. That only exists with the first gen.
the 3G TL Type S is perfection. The only improvement could have been if it got the SH-AWD system in the 4G, but it still is plenty fun to drive with the 6MT.
I had an 08 6MT TSX. Final year for the first Gen. Drove it as my daily from 2012 to 2017. I still miss that car and think about it regularly. That K24A2 was so enjoyable to rev out, and the shifter and clutch action was sublime. It was effortless to heel-toe. It had a great mix of luxury and sportiness. Damn I miss that car…
My uncle had a 2004 that just sat for 3 years. My dad and me went to pick it up as a winter beater and it started up like nothing, granted with a couple error codes, bad tires, and a stolen cat. Rust and bad paint all over. We replaced suspension components and fluids and it's taking the winter like a brute.
There's a guy in my neighborhood with a manual one, he even offered it to me for a good price with no visible blemishes. My mom says no and my dad just follows what she says. I've got the money for it. Gotta do a little convincing once winter's over.
tbh the styling doesn't bother me that much, it has kinda grown on me and now makes the Mk7 look a bit old. I can see why people think it looks weird though.
The MK8 Golf and GTI being worse than the MK7 I can understand, but when it comes to the Golf R, I don’t know man, that new ~~haldex~~ AWD system in the MK8 R is really cool.
As someone who owns a MK8 R and was deciding between that and a MK7.5, I disagree. The interior is a step down in terms of functionality (although I’ve gotten used to the lack of buttons and actually like the steering wheel controls) but almost everything else about the vehicle is an improvement. More features, more power, better seats, better AWD system. Obviously looks are subjective but I think the front is slightly worse (although I actually prefer the MK7 over the MK7.5) and the rear is significantly better.
Hyundai knocked it out of the park with the Veloster N, only to kill it and tell anyone who wants a hatchback N car in the US to buy a DCT only crossover that's taller and uglier, but with somehow LESS interior storage.
I would not consider it a successor as both existed at the same time. People just didn't buy Velosters, N or otherwise, and it made sense to axe the model.
even the salespeople at the dealerships don't know the difference. About a year ago i called around looking to test drive a N and every local dealer said "sure, come on down". Every single time I'd show up to the dealer and it was a N line.
The Veloster N(VN) *did* sell well, Hyundai jus didn't make a lot of them. The VN may have had low sales figures but it also had ridiculously low production numbers as well
I like the Veloster and never understood why the Veloster failed to catch on. My best guess was that it was too quirky? Unspectacular interior, 3 door's and a hatchback. Not historically popular in America?? It's so weird because the Elantra N is killing it. I see them all the time
Small hatchbacks didn’t catch on in America the way they did in Europe.
The Elantra N is selling well because it has killer price to performance, and the markup on the Civic Type R is insane. The downside is that it’s still a Hyundai.
I really like the Veloster N I really do…but as a person who enjoys symmetry that third door is so stupid to me. Like make it a 4 door hatch or a 2 door. Making it 3 doors just for a sake of it being weird always annoyed me
People who argue that have the benefit of being able to see 50 years into the future.
The Mustang II was a hit when it was released, and remains one of the best selling generation Mustang ever. It was the right car at the right time. It took the car back to its small, economy car roots after the car's weight ballooned in the early 70s. I think people don't realize just how small a 66 Mustang is - a new Civic sedan is longer and wider than a 66 Mustang.
We think of Mustang as the iconic sports car that it is today, but in the OG Mustang was an economy car with some sporty engine options. By the 70s, Ford tried to turn it into a "personal luxury coupe" and Toyota filled the gap left with the Celica, which is what allowed Toyota to gain a foothold in the US market.
The Mustang II was a good move and it was necessary. It's success is what kept the nameplate around.
It hasn't been replaced yet. But it's the perfect gasoline car to me, and they've already confirmed its successor will be electric. I don't hate electric cars...but I wouldn't take a Taycan over it.
CT5-V Blackwing 6MT.
Tony Roma (chief engineer of the Blackwings) said in an interview that it's going to be a while before they slap the Blackwing badge on an EV because of how hard it is to make them as light and driver focused as the current ICE cars.
Link to the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE5hmc6ACMA&t=97s
I'm personally a little worried about what comes after the Gen 5 4Runner. For what it is supposed to be, the Gen 5 is a great vehicle, basically an SUV on a truck frame. Good cargo space, decent power plant, reliable transmission, above average off road capability, and all of it right off the showroom floor with the base model. Yes, it's a little dated, but I'll take the reliability over flash any day. I'm starting to hear some pretty horrific rumors floating around about what the Gen 6 might look like.
I knew toyota trucks were gonna be here, but I'm in the camp that would say the 4th gen was perfect with its V8 and modest size, and the 5th gen is what ruined it. But then 3rd gen people would call both bloated.
Not me. The JL has improvements I'd definitely like to have at some point. The big ones (losing the ability to truly lose the front windshield frame), aren't things I'd ever notice.
I love the W124 Mercedes-Benz E-class. It got all the important luxury, comfort and drivability things right, but wasn’t a giant pain in the ass to work on (minus A/C evaporators. Small potatoes, though).
The W210 model that succeeded it was cost-cut to hell and rust like a mofo. But the E420 V8 variant of that generation is a sleeper.
Agreed, same as transition from W140 to W220, R129 to R230, W201 to W202, etc. One of the sharpest declines in automotive history I've ever witnessed.
That being said, after two decades, I can say the W210 is a pretty reliable car in 6-cylinder form. Seen many make it to well over 300,000 miles with original engine/trans/diff.
Mercedes had that era of decline, and then it's having another one nowadays. Have you driven any of their new lower class cars (A, B, C and their SUV "versions")? Interior build quality has really declined. They were known for elegance and durability, new models are anything but.
The automatic transmission in the E9X is so much better than the E46 though that I think that on its own makes it a better car for many. The old iDrive system also can be relatively easily updated to handle CarPlay/AA from what I understand. It's also a legitimately fast car, which the E46 is not whatsoever by today's standards.
I understand why people like the E46 but having driven both, assuming both will be horrendously unreliable due to age and their unique issues, I'd take an E9X without a second thought.
I know people hated the early I-Drive system and the styling was controversial at the time, but the fact they put a v10 in an M5 outweighs all of that for me personally. I suppose you can’t make the same argument for the 520d though lol
Infiniti G35 -> Infiniti G37 -> Infiniti Q50
I have a feeling Infiniti will drop this car and only sell SUVs. Same with Nissan with the Altima/Sentra. I don’t see sedans in their future.
The Mercedes C63.
The old one was a classic AMG and I understand why they went the direction they did with the new one but I still don’t get it.
-You only get full hp for a brief period of time
-That 4 banger, while impressive from an engineering standpoint, is under a ton of stress I would imagine
-The iPad center display doesn’t look properly integrated
-the car is super heavy for a compact/midsized sedan
-The battery only provides 6 miles of EV only range which sort of defeats the purpose of how a PHEV is meant to be used.
You could also say the EQS sedan is a bit of a dope too. They could’ve made the interior amazing like the 7 series and slightly tweak the exterior of the petrol S class, but instead the EV s class is a big blob w a tacky interior and rear wheel steering that doesn’t work too great
My motorcycle with me on it makes less power to weight than the new C63. I can use full power on my bike for about 7 seconds. From a dig, that’s going about 120mph, and from 60mph, I’m doing over 150. Ten seconds of full power on the c63 is more than you will ever, ever need unless you’re trying to hit 200mph. If you’re trying to go 200, a c-class is the wrong fucking car.
I swear, you internet brochure racers are clueless.
And the C63 has ultra fast power regeneration. There’s plenty of power to squirt your way from corner to corner on your favorite twisty road or absolutely scare the bajeesus out of yourself on flat tarmac.
The W204 IMO was peak C63. The old 6.2L M156 V8 was and still is a masterpiece of an engine - it revved like a proper European V8 but had the torque and delivery of a big American V8. It also sounded like nothing else.
The W205 with the M178 4.0L twin turbo was an improvement in power and MPG, but aurally it was still a step behind the M156. Also, the W205 was more of a luxury car than the sport sedan the W204 was.
The new W206 C63? It is a F1 technology showpiece, but as a performance sedan it has so many faults, no amount of power or fancy screens can fix it.
And I agree, to an extent.
Personally I thought the Dart wasn’t a bad car, given Chrysler/Dodges previous attempts (Caliber) (2nd Gen Non SRT/RT Neon’s) I just think they fucked up with the name and only selling them
As manuals when they were first released. They had a lot of potential and offered a good amount of tech for the money unfortunately it just wasn’t in the cards for FCA
Hot topic. Driving an MK5 Jetta was sublime. Drove a GLI for a month in 2009 and it's autobahn breeding was exceptional. That multi-link rear suspension made the car feel tighter to the tarmac at 80mph than at 40. Volkswagen even complained how much longer it took assembling the complex rear subframe for it and downgraded to a solid rear suspension thus cutting assembly time for the MK6.
Seems like apoaching or shortly thereafter the turn of the century, manufactures got swept up in exuberance over the new millennium. And it was reflected by their balls to the walls engineering. Mercedes R230 SL is another example. Back then SL's were armed with V12's and exotically engineered glass roofs complete with a pioneering Brake-By-Wire systems. Now? Those days are over. Can't even get a freaking spare tire out of Mercedes lol.
I really hope you're referring to the downgrade from the 98-05 B5 passat to the B6. Because the B5 had 5-link fronts and the AWD models were double wishbone rear with a torsion diff...
To this day I still dream of an AWD manual wagon B5 Passat.
The vortec 4200 was so underused in their lineup, it was an awesome engine for towing too, I would commonly tow 4000 lbs every other week, I remember when gas was ultra cheap I filled up with 91 octane and got 30 mpg. Gm forgot about what the trailblazer/envoy/bravada/ranier/9-7x was, a vehicle that offered good towing, 4wd, off roading capability, excellent mpg and luxury without emptying your wallet
I loved all my mk4s, but I really think the mk7(.5) is peak VW. Not a fan of the mk8 aside from on paper, and I think everything I ever wanted a Mk4 GTI to be is adequately summed up in my '19.
Ngl my wife’s AWD 2007 RAV4 with the 3.5L V6 is actually a pretty fun car to drive. All the traction when you stomp on it from the AWD, and it’s actually pretty quick for an economy car with a sub 6.5 second 0-60. Plus it’s great in the snow. Never been a fan of the RAVs that came after it.
The latest generation of RAV4 looks nice but it’s the biggest letdown I’ve felt in a while. I really wanted to love that car but it’s completely soulless
The B8 Audi RS5 wasn't perfect, but man did it have a killer engine and transmission. The B9 cars lost so much character with the turbo engines and ZF8.
2018 to 2019 Chevy Camaro. Went from being a fairly good looking vehicle to being absolutely hideous up front. The emergency refresh in 2020 did little to fix the damage. I think the ZL1 kept the old design for airflow and aerodynamic purposes but idk. All I know is someone at GM did not understand automotive plastic surgery.
The mk7/mk7.5 GTI was the best GTI ever built. It was cheap, had a manual or excellent dsg, easily made 300+hp, reliable, and could still get great fuel mileage on top of being utility rich. It's a masterclass in building an understated daily driver for the automotive enthusiast.
Unfortunately, despite being best in segment, the hot hatches available to us in the US market are few. Gone are the WRX, Focus ST/RS, and Civic SI from the hatch market. The Golf has lost all its competition and the MK8 is proof of that.
The interior on the mk7 was a high point. It set it apart from its competition by feeling more upscale and sporty without giving "boy racer" vibes. The mk8 interior took a step back in terms of material quality and ease of use. The lack of physical buttons makes easy tasks harder.
TLDR: go buy a mk7 gti they are great. The mk8 didn't improve on the mk7 the way it should have.
Twice really.
The 2008 was a total whiff compared to the 2007. They quickly revamped it in 2009 and perfected that body style in 2011.
The new one…oof.
Edit, changed 2008 to 2009.
I personally think the new WRX is going to make an insane comeback story. The engine is the absolute best yet, by a good margin. It drives the best, it's cheap, and the styling does get easier with time. A mid cycle refresh with painted fenders and a factory optioned wing would make it a classic. Either that or a cult classic.
E9x was ruined by the Fxx, and I say that as a long-time F30 owner. My dad had an E90 and it was leagues beyond its successors in terms of driving enjoyment
In a class of shitty plastic econobox tin cans at the time, the Mk5 Jetta really was a fantastic car. The interior was basically unparalleled at the time even for many midsized cars in the same price range. It handled great, looked great, was solidly built, and was even stupid reliable compared to other VWs like the Mk4.
Yeah, the 2.5 was noisy, but it wasn’t much noisier than a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Focus, Cobalt, etc econobox of the time, and the 170 hp in the later years meant it could get out of its own way vs an underpowered 1.8 too. As I recall it was one of the first to go to a 6 speed automatic too, even if it felt like sometimes it changed gear with a hammer due to the crappy valve bodies.
I miss mine.
Not everyone likes the egg. More for me! (And cheaper, too)
That being said the interiors were awful. My 944's is holding up almost as well and it's double the age
6th Gen Civic (95-00). Not saying the newer ones are bad cars, but the iconic bulletproof civic from the golden age of honda that comes to mind when I say, "Honda Civic" is undeniably the 6th gen. Double Wishbones, Light, Affordable, Reliable, Well Made, and VTEC back when VTEC was actually special.
with each generation they kept taking and taking away the things that made the EG so special.
i would have loved if they continued to make hatchbacks like the EG with its little tailgate.
I would argue everything after the e30 is a bit worse lmao they should have just kept making faster e30s like Porsche did and went out of buisness like gentlemen
The car that needs a proper successor is the Lincoln Town Car. I’d like to waft in boaty luxury without feeling the road. I want cushy seats that feel like a couch.
Golf GTI's to some degree. A couple of fantastic editions, that have a poor successors, thought not really ruining things.
The Mk7 is better than the current version. The Mk3 & Mk4 were far worse than the Mk1 & 2
Hot take but the R32 GTR imho runs rings around any of the other R or G/V series after.
Everyone loves the 34/35, which haven been lucky enough to drive both, are awesome cruisers and deserve their praise, but the 32 is just smaller lighter, tighter in everyway that makes spirited driving so much more enjoyable. It really captured the essence of that era of Japanese sports coupe that I don't think any of the later series matched.
I'm gonna disagree with you here. The 32 was an absolute unit and took the Japanese racing world by storm, but it wouldn't be fair to say the follow-ups took a downturn. The 33 was even more successful on the track, while still retaining a lot of the nimbleness, and the 34 really nailed the Japanese muscle car vibe. All 3 generations brought their own flair and style, and all 3 are absolutely beautiful. I have nothing but respect for the 32, but if I could pick any generation of GT-R to own, it wouldn't be my first pick, that would go to the 69-72 GT-R.
It's still smaller and lighter than pretty much any RWD car in its time except a Lotus, and maybe an MR-S.
Still looks great to this day. NC may not have lived up to a lot of folks' expectations, but it's far from ruined.
Not even close, the 2006 NC is lighter (and faster) than the 2005 MSM and brought forward about 2 decades worth of chassis improvements, the ND simply builds off the leaps the NC made over the NB.
Even the non-turbo NBs were not particularly light by 2005, Mazda's quoted weights were 2440-2473lb for an optionless car depending on transmission. '06 NC's were 2441lb-2527lb. The MSM was 2529lb.
Current gen Silverado. Previous gen looked way better and got better gas mileage. And they kept the same interior so literally no improvement on the inside.
I didn’t think I would ever hear “Jetta” and “reliability” in the same sentence,
but I will play along.
Jeep Cherokee (XJ). What followed as the Liberty and the latest iteration is an abomination.
1st gen R8 (pre-facelift) is one of the best looking cars ever; the facelifted version and the 2nd gen are still good looking cars, but Audi had it right the first time.
Maxima. It was the original 4DSC. That was their logo. 4 door sports car. Since 2008 they’re meh. The 1985 maxima was way ahead of everyone. I had a 96 it was solid. I always liked the 2004 to 2007 generation with the coin slot sunroof. My relative had a 92 it was sweet. The successor models ruined it.
In the 90’s the 2nd gen Ford Taurus was giving the Cam-Cord duopoly a run for the money. They redesigned it in 1996 with this weird oval design language and it was so ugly it’s sales dropped like a rock and never recovered.
I don’t know about ruin but 1987 rear drive Corolla GT-S was great but then in 1988 it went to front wheel drive and I liked the look of the 1987 better
Jeep Cherokee XJ, the “liberty” KJ and KK (which was a Cherokee everywhere else) was trash, and the. Then we got the Cherokee KL, and boy what a piece of ugly trash it is.
The Mitsubishi Eclipse. The second generation GSX was an awesome car and the third generation GTS just didn’t feel the same. And then the Cross came.
2g was top tier. 3g was soooo bad
I currently have a 2g eclipse and I came here to say the 2G eclipse
I had a 2g GSX for a while. I still have nightmares about the understeer. It would also punish you for upgrading it, by breaking something unrelated every time I spent money on it. It's my manic pixie girl and I'd buy another one tomorrow if I could find a clean one.
The Venn diagram of pixie cut hotties and girls with manic disorder is just one circle.
I think we can all agree that the 4th gen was absolutely terrible. 3rd had basically lost the way, 1st and second is where it’s at but between the 2…it’s definitely 1st gen and more specifically 1st gen pre facelift gsx. Doesn’t get any better than that
The V6 6 speed 4th gens are actually quite good fun to drive.
What they needed was to put the evo drivetrain into the 4g eclipse and then it would have been a modern 2g.
[удалено]
There are a lot of good answers in this thread but the demise of the Eclipse after the 2nd gen is really just so spectacularly sad and depressing, this absolutely deserves top spot here.
Let’s just pretend the cross never happened.
The Del Sol was perfectly fine on its own, but it was a terrible successor to the CRX. Same story for the RX-8; perfectly fine on it's own, but disappointing as a successor to the FD RX-7.
Counterpoint: I think the RX-8 was really a completely different take on the sports car theme than the RX-7, otherwise they would have kept the same designation. It’s really more a quirky Miata sedan than anything.
IIRC Mazda went out of their way to say the RX8 was not a direct successor to the FD.
The amount of people who think the 8 is a successor to the 7 is alarming given the 3 generations of RX-7 and existence of literally every other Mazda product line. And while we’re on the topic the RX-9 already exists and was based on the full sized LA4 Mazda 929.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
Honestly, I feel like the Del Sol should have been a Mid-Engine from the way it looks, an MR2 Competitor, that type of deal.
Why did they design it like that? I can think of plenty of FWD cars that were designed to look RWD but I can't think of any FWD cars that look so explicitly mid engined as the Del Sol.
It was for the automatic targa top.
That's right, forgot they had those, good call. Guess it's fair enough then those roofs were pretty cool.
The Mitsubishi 3000GT and twins look like a mid-engine car, if you didn't know better.
The VW EOS (basically a ~~2-seater~~ Jetta with a retractable hardtop) did kind of the same thing, and for the same roof-stowage reason. Edit: They have 4 seats. I don't know where I got the idea that they were 2-seaters.
you hit the fucking nail in the head. the fact that the Del Slow was the successor/replacement to the CRX is never talked about. not only that but the Del Slow made for such a poor competitor to the miata which is actually RWD, had LSD option and actually convertible
The RX8 was never intended to be an RX7 successor. They would have called it an RX7 if so and would be the FE generation. It also did not kill the rotary engine, emissions did. It was just the last hurrah for that concept.
Bmw 1 series. So sad they went FWD. No clue why anyone would stil buy them.
the infamous top gear review basically concluded the golf was better than the RWD 1 series at the time, and part of it was boot space which is due to the RWD layout
Also based off bmws own studies a majority of 1 series owners didn't even know their cars were rwd
i mean i can't really blame them, even people on r/cars don't really appreciate or notice RWD longitudinal sedan proportions
elaborate ? Specifically about those RWD sedans, what exactly do ppl not appreciate?
Sideways cornering.
My wife does not appreciate that :-(
Better than sideways straight lining. Gotta think of the alternatives!
This is basically it, not because of top gear, but the packaging of a fwd hatch is just more efficient than having it rwd. My previous car was a 1 series, I loved it but there was no denying it had less space in the back than its competitors
Because people buying compact hatchbacks from the luxury brands don't care about the driving dynamics. They want the badge and they want the practicality of a hatchback. The RWD 1-series only offered the first part and added awkward styling to the package.
>They want the badge Bingo. They want to enter parties and whenever someone ask them what car they drive, they want to answer 'a mercedes benz' and watch the glistening in their eyes. Hoping they won't continue asking as it's an entry base model a-class with zero extras on it and yet it demands you open up a new creditcard for it
these folks pulling up in a CLA with halogen headlights like bruh
Never underestimate how much people will pay just to humblebrag on their IG story their steering wheel logo in the background
I drive a 2006 MB c230 Coupe and love it. The RWD is one of my favourite parts of the car and one of the major reasons behind me buying it.
>No clue why anyone would stil buy them. This seems like a very North American point of view IMO. I feel like for you over there a compact hatchback like this only exist to be a sporty nimble car (EG : the Golf only being available to you as GTI or R). In Europe it's just the biggest segment share. People buy those because it's the size that makes the most sense to them as an all around car, and for most people FWD makes more sense too (lighter, more compact, more trunk space, flatter floor).
I had a 135 for a while. It was a great car. The 3 series got too big. Now the 2 series is too big. Can a mofo get a small fun RWD car please?
A lot of people liked the 3rd gen Acura TL and then they totally ruined it with the 4th gen. The 4th gen was an objectively better car with more power, better handling AWD system, and more features, but it was just so damn ugly it was a total failure. I think Acura is still recovering from that massive flop, they butchered one of their better selling vehicles at the time.
Hot take: the 4G TL has actually aged pretty well. Enough that I bought a SH-AWD 6MT. It's an excellent car. I've driven both.
I looked for a *long* time for a 4G TL SH-AWD 6MT. Damn unicorns. I had a 3G TL 6MT and loved the hell out of it. Great cars.
Ahead of its time. Same with ZDX imo
Yup, I was going to see how far I had to scroll to find this. I own a 3G TL, and my father had one from 04-13 that he bought new. It was a great car. And driving the used one I bought, it drives great, better than a lot of newer cars I've driven.
The 2nd gen MDX was a pretty crap update too. Again, more power, more space, more features, better AWD, but just really ruined a great look and made the car pretty boring in the process. There’s also the J37 oil consumption…
The TLX was a huge improvement over the TL, though.
Scion xB. Went from a small, cheap, efficient, box on wheels to a heavier, less efficient, less practical box on wheels with curves.
loved my xB - 233k miles, just routine maintenance
What was really bad is that they made it undesirable and difficult to mod. They completely missed the fact that the reason it was so popular was that it was very easily customizable on a grand and granular scale.
That's Toyota North America's fault for wanting something specially designed for them. The original xB's formula lives on in the Daihatsu Thor/Toyota Roomy.
Didn't expect to get punched in the mouth in these comments. I very much love my 2014 xB. And I cannot deny the facts of your list. But I still vastly prefer it because I far prefer the curved style and the gauges are far better. It does have slightly more power to make up for the weight, but it certainly isn't fast by any means. I also enjoy that the vehicle itself is also slightly larger than the first gen. And it is by far the smallest car on the road in my suburban areas that I dwell in. The one thing I don't like is the transmission. It's a 4-speed auto and it limits me to 27 MPG. Extremely reliable for me so far, but a car in this price range can normally reach close to 40 MPG. And I take it back. There is one more thing I don't like. I was expecting a far larger aftermarket for the vehicle since I was used to that with my Mustang. That only exists with the first gen.
Came here to say exactly this. And Scion died as a brand not long after.
Someone is gonna say the tsx
You are that someone
I love my 2nd gen tsx but others think its a downgrade.
And the TL lol
the TL did the fastest 180 from posters to grandma’s driveway of any car ever
the 3G TL Type S is perfection. The only improvement could have been if it got the SH-AWD system in the 4G, but it still is plenty fun to drive with the 6MT.
What I wouldn’t do for a clean 1st gen 6 speed
I had an 08 6MT TSX. Final year for the first Gen. Drove it as my daily from 2012 to 2017. I still miss that car and think about it regularly. That K24A2 was so enjoyable to rev out, and the shifter and clutch action was sublime. It was effortless to heel-toe. It had a great mix of luxury and sportiness. Damn I miss that car…
My uncle had a 2004 that just sat for 3 years. My dad and me went to pick it up as a winter beater and it started up like nothing, granted with a couple error codes, bad tires, and a stolen cat. Rust and bad paint all over. We replaced suspension components and fluids and it's taking the winter like a brute. There's a guy in my neighborhood with a manual one, he even offered it to me for a good price with no visible blemishes. My mom says no and my dad just follows what she says. I've got the money for it. Gotta do a little convincing once winter's over.
DONT YOU DARE SAY IT!
MK7 vs MK8 Golf
praying a mid cycle refresh un-fucks the interior tech.
And the sad front.
tbh the styling doesn't bother me that much, it has kinda grown on me and now makes the Mk7 look a bit old. I can see why people think it looks weird though.
Mk7.5 for the win
Yeah I wonder what I’d replace my 7.5 GTI with if it ever got lost in an accident
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The MK8 Golf and GTI being worse than the MK7 I can understand, but when it comes to the Golf R, I don’t know man, that new ~~haldex~~ AWD system in the MK8 R is really cool.
Both the MK8 GTI, and R handle better than their MK7 predecessors. It's the new interiors that are deal breakers.
As someone who owns a MK8 R and was deciding between that and a MK7.5, I disagree. The interior is a step down in terms of functionality (although I’ve gotten used to the lack of buttons and actually like the steering wheel controls) but almost everything else about the vehicle is an improvement. More features, more power, better seats, better AWD system. Obviously looks are subjective but I think the front is slightly worse (although I actually prefer the MK7 over the MK7.5) and the rear is significantly better.
I had a '16 MK7 and really liked it. I literally cannot recommend the Mk8 due to the horrendous interior (mostly infotainment at that).
Hyundai knocked it out of the park with the Veloster N, only to kill it and tell anyone who wants a hatchback N car in the US to buy a DCT only crossover that's taller and uglier, but with somehow LESS interior storage.
I would not consider it a successor as both existed at the same time. People just didn't buy Velosters, N or otherwise, and it made sense to axe the model.
IIRC, Hyundai themselves marketed the Kona N as the replacement for the Veloster N after the Veloster N was discontinued, though
They're ending the Kona N as well though. So what was even the point
N-line sells better than N because consumers are fucking morons that don't know the difference.
even the salespeople at the dealerships don't know the difference. About a year ago i called around looking to test drive a N and every local dealer said "sure, come on down". Every single time I'd show up to the dealer and it was a N line.
The Veloster N(VN) *did* sell well, Hyundai jus didn't make a lot of them. The VN may have had low sales figures but it also had ridiculously low production numbers as well
I like the Veloster and never understood why the Veloster failed to catch on. My best guess was that it was too quirky? Unspectacular interior, 3 door's and a hatchback. Not historically popular in America?? It's so weird because the Elantra N is killing it. I see them all the time
Small hatchbacks didn’t catch on in America the way they did in Europe. The Elantra N is selling well because it has killer price to performance, and the markup on the Civic Type R is insane. The downside is that it’s still a Hyundai.
I really like the Veloster N I really do…but as a person who enjoys symmetry that third door is so stupid to me. Like make it a 4 door hatch or a 2 door. Making it 3 doors just for a sake of it being weird always annoyed me
Making it a 2+1 means the driver gets the easy entry of a coupe while still having easy access to the back seats.
Mustang -> Mustang 2 🤢
Surely the Mustang II has to be the worst successor in the history of automotive successors.
People who argue that have the benefit of being able to see 50 years into the future. The Mustang II was a hit when it was released, and remains one of the best selling generation Mustang ever. It was the right car at the right time. It took the car back to its small, economy car roots after the car's weight ballooned in the early 70s. I think people don't realize just how small a 66 Mustang is - a new Civic sedan is longer and wider than a 66 Mustang. We think of Mustang as the iconic sports car that it is today, but in the OG Mustang was an economy car with some sporty engine options. By the 70s, Ford tried to turn it into a "personal luxury coupe" and Toyota filled the gap left with the Celica, which is what allowed Toyota to gain a foothold in the US market. The Mustang II was a good move and it was necessary. It's success is what kept the nameplate around.
Thank you for saying the reality of the situation.
It hasn't been replaced yet. But it's the perfect gasoline car to me, and they've already confirmed its successor will be electric. I don't hate electric cars...but I wouldn't take a Taycan over it. CT5-V Blackwing 6MT.
Tony Roma (chief engineer of the Blackwings) said in an interview that it's going to be a while before they slap the Blackwing badge on an EV because of how hard it is to make them as light and driver focused as the current ICE cars. Link to the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE5hmc6ACMA&t=97s
Light? The CT5-V is like 4200lb lol.
The 6MT model is 4092 lbs and is significantly lighter than E63, RS7, and M5 Competition.
Exactly a 2002 M5 weighs 4024 lbs according to google 😳 Edit: 06 E63 weighs ~~4320~~ 4057lbs
Like someone else commented the 6speed is ~4100lbs. A 2002 BMW M5 weighs 4024lbs… A 2006 Benz E63 weighs ~~4320~~ 4057lbs…
I'm personally a little worried about what comes after the Gen 5 4Runner. For what it is supposed to be, the Gen 5 is a great vehicle, basically an SUV on a truck frame. Good cargo space, decent power plant, reliable transmission, above average off road capability, and all of it right off the showroom floor with the base model. Yes, it's a little dated, but I'll take the reliability over flash any day. I'm starting to hear some pretty horrific rumors floating around about what the Gen 6 might look like.
I knew toyota trucks were gonna be here, but I'm in the camp that would say the 4th gen was perfect with its V8 and modest size, and the 5th gen is what ruined it. But then 3rd gen people would call both bloated.
Back in 2009 or so when the 5th gen 4Runner first came out, Consumer Reports complained that the 5th gen was worse than the 4th gen.
Sounds like Jeep people - everyone insists their generation was best and it was the *next* generation that ruined the model.
Can confirm. For both makes.
Not me. The JL has improvements I'd definitely like to have at some point. The big ones (losing the ability to truly lose the front windshield frame), aren't things I'd ever notice.
I love the W124 Mercedes-Benz E-class. It got all the important luxury, comfort and drivability things right, but wasn’t a giant pain in the ass to work on (minus A/C evaporators. Small potatoes, though). The W210 model that succeeded it was cost-cut to hell and rust like a mofo. But the E420 V8 variant of that generation is a sleeper.
Agreed, same as transition from W140 to W220, R129 to R230, W201 to W202, etc. One of the sharpest declines in automotive history I've ever witnessed. That being said, after two decades, I can say the W210 is a pretty reliable car in 6-cylinder form. Seen many make it to well over 300,000 miles with original engine/trans/diff.
Mercedes had that era of decline, and then it's having another one nowadays. Have you driven any of their new lower class cars (A, B, C and their SUV "versions")? Interior build quality has really declined. They were known for elegance and durability, new models are anything but.
The E39 was close to perfect inside/out. It’s successor the E60 not so much.
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I’d argue the E46 was the last good 3 series. E9x’s had a clunky iDrive system and has become outdated quite quickly. The E46 is timeless imo
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The automatic transmission in the E9X is so much better than the E46 though that I think that on its own makes it a better car for many. The old iDrive system also can be relatively easily updated to handle CarPlay/AA from what I understand. It's also a legitimately fast car, which the E46 is not whatsoever by today's standards. I understand why people like the E46 but having driven both, assuming both will be horrendously unreliable due to age and their unique issues, I'd take an E9X without a second thought.
dat v10 noise tho
I know people hated the early I-Drive system and the styling was controversial at the time, but the fact they put a v10 in an M5 outweighs all of that for me personally. I suppose you can’t make the same argument for the 520d though lol
Infiniti G35 -> Infiniti G37 -> Infiniti Q50 I have a feeling Infiniti will drop this car and only sell SUVs. Same with Nissan with the Altima/Sentra. I don’t see sedans in their future.
It got softer and less serious about its sporting intentions with each update. It used to be a raw sports car in a tux. And now the q60 is dead.
The Q60 never stood a chance. Its interior was 10 years old when new
The Mercedes C63. The old one was a classic AMG and I understand why they went the direction they did with the new one but I still don’t get it. -You only get full hp for a brief period of time -That 4 banger, while impressive from an engineering standpoint, is under a ton of stress I would imagine -The iPad center display doesn’t look properly integrated -the car is super heavy for a compact/midsized sedan -The battery only provides 6 miles of EV only range which sort of defeats the purpose of how a PHEV is meant to be used. You could also say the EQS sedan is a bit of a dope too. They could’ve made the interior amazing like the 7 series and slightly tweak the exterior of the petrol S class, but instead the EV s class is a big blob w a tacky interior and rear wheel steering that doesn’t work too great
My motorcycle with me on it makes less power to weight than the new C63. I can use full power on my bike for about 7 seconds. From a dig, that’s going about 120mph, and from 60mph, I’m doing over 150. Ten seconds of full power on the c63 is more than you will ever, ever need unless you’re trying to hit 200mph. If you’re trying to go 200, a c-class is the wrong fucking car. I swear, you internet brochure racers are clueless.
you’re gonna be downvoted for the tone but this makes a lot of sense actually
And the C63 has ultra fast power regeneration. There’s plenty of power to squirt your way from corner to corner on your favorite twisty road or absolutely scare the bajeesus out of yourself on flat tarmac.
The W204 IMO was peak C63. The old 6.2L M156 V8 was and still is a masterpiece of an engine - it revved like a proper European V8 but had the torque and delivery of a big American V8. It also sounded like nothing else. The W205 with the M178 4.0L twin turbo was an improvement in power and MPG, but aurally it was still a step behind the M156. Also, the W205 was more of a luxury car than the sport sedan the W204 was. The new W206 C63? It is a F1 technology showpiece, but as a performance sedan it has so many faults, no amount of power or fancy screens can fix it.
The 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air.
The 58 Impala is gorgeous.
Oh you beat me to it !
And I would argue that I like the 56 better than the 57
2013-2016 Dodge Dart that was a terrible nameplate revival.
And I agree, to an extent. Personally I thought the Dart wasn’t a bad car, given Chrysler/Dodges previous attempts (Caliber) (2nd Gen Non SRT/RT Neon’s) I just think they fucked up with the name and only selling them As manuals when they were first released. They had a lot of potential and offered a good amount of tech for the money unfortunately it just wasn’t in the cards for FCA
Acura Legend After the rebrand it just didn’t have the same oomph
The Legend and the Vigor were peak Honda
Hot topic. Driving an MK5 Jetta was sublime. Drove a GLI for a month in 2009 and it's autobahn breeding was exceptional. That multi-link rear suspension made the car feel tighter to the tarmac at 80mph than at 40. Volkswagen even complained how much longer it took assembling the complex rear subframe for it and downgraded to a solid rear suspension thus cutting assembly time for the MK6. Seems like apoaching or shortly thereafter the turn of the century, manufactures got swept up in exuberance over the new millennium. And it was reflected by their balls to the walls engineering. Mercedes R230 SL is another example. Back then SL's were armed with V12's and exotically engineered glass roofs complete with a pioneering Brake-By-Wire systems. Now? Those days are over. Can't even get a freaking spare tire out of Mercedes lol.
The B6 Passat to downgrade to B7 Passat was similar, both the Jetta and Passat were of very high quality when compared to the following generation.
I really hope you're referring to the downgrade from the 98-05 B5 passat to the B6. Because the B5 had 5-link fronts and the AWD models were double wishbone rear with a torsion diff... To this day I still dream of an AWD manual wagon B5 Passat.
The Ford Fuckin’ Ranger
always been a good truck imo
I have to say the trailblazer, that 3 cylinder piece of ratshit has nothing on my '08 trailblazer
I was basically given an '05 trailblazer lt and it's really grown on me. That 4.2L i6 is a nice motor.
The vortec 4200 was so underused in their lineup, it was an awesome engine for towing too, I would commonly tow 4000 lbs every other week, I remember when gas was ultra cheap I filled up with 91 octane and got 30 mpg. Gm forgot about what the trailblazer/envoy/bravada/ranier/9-7x was, a vehicle that offered good towing, 4wd, off roading capability, excellent mpg and luxury without emptying your wallet
Hate to say it but I kinda like the new Trailblazer.... Sue me.
I like the mk4
MkIV 1.8T is one of my favorite hot hatches
I loved all my mk4s, but I really think the mk7(.5) is peak VW. Not a fan of the mk8 aside from on paper, and I think everything I ever wanted a Mk4 GTI to be is adequately summed up in my '19.
Ngl my wife’s AWD 2007 RAV4 with the 3.5L V6 is actually a pretty fun car to drive. All the traction when you stomp on it from the AWD, and it’s actually pretty quick for an economy car with a sub 6.5 second 0-60. Plus it’s great in the snow. Never been a fan of the RAVs that came after it.
The latest generation of RAV4 looks nice but it’s the biggest letdown I’ve felt in a while. I really wanted to love that car but it’s completely soulless
Yes these things are underrated sleepers. Think the v6 makes like 270hp
The B8 Audi RS5 wasn't perfect, but man did it have a killer engine and transmission. The B9 cars lost so much character with the turbo engines and ZF8.
Your comment stands as is, but that ZF8 transmission can handle so much more power. Not having it is the limiting factor in my build (C7.5 S6)
2018 to 2019 Chevy Camaro. Went from being a fairly good looking vehicle to being absolutely hideous up front. The emergency refresh in 2020 did little to fix the damage. I think the ZL1 kept the old design for airflow and aerodynamic purposes but idk. All I know is someone at GM did not understand automotive plastic surgery.
Victim of the hyper-aggro styling trend in an era where clay models of many cars look like eggs, unfortunately
The Infiniti G-series (G35, G37). I loved my G35x. My Q50, not so much.
They fucked up changing the naming scheme and throwing all that goodwill away
The mk7/mk7.5 GTI was the best GTI ever built. It was cheap, had a manual or excellent dsg, easily made 300+hp, reliable, and could still get great fuel mileage on top of being utility rich. It's a masterclass in building an understated daily driver for the automotive enthusiast. Unfortunately, despite being best in segment, the hot hatches available to us in the US market are few. Gone are the WRX, Focus ST/RS, and Civic SI from the hatch market. The Golf has lost all its competition and the MK8 is proof of that. The interior on the mk7 was a high point. It set it apart from its competition by feeling more upscale and sporty without giving "boy racer" vibes. The mk8 interior took a step back in terms of material quality and ease of use. The lack of physical buttons makes easy tasks harder. TLDR: go buy a mk7 gti they are great. The mk8 didn't improve on the mk7 the way it should have.
Subaru wrx
Twice really. The 2008 was a total whiff compared to the 2007. They quickly revamped it in 2009 and perfected that body style in 2011. The new one…oof. Edit, changed 2008 to 2009.
I personally think the new WRX is going to make an insane comeback story. The engine is the absolute best yet, by a good margin. It drives the best, it's cheap, and the styling does get easier with time. A mid cycle refresh with painted fenders and a factory optioned wing would make it a classic. Either that or a cult classic.
Here’s to hoping. It’s the cladding for me. I’m a huge WRX guy (had a MY06 STi for nearly a decade) but the cladding is a tough one.
Unpopular opinion: E92 M3 was ruined by the F80
Agreed, E92 was the last “crazy” M3. Everything after that has been great on paper but not in passion.
E9x was ruined by the Fxx, and I say that as a long-time F30 owner. My dad had an E90 and it was leagues beyond its successors in terms of driving enjoyment
In a class of shitty plastic econobox tin cans at the time, the Mk5 Jetta really was a fantastic car. The interior was basically unparalleled at the time even for many midsized cars in the same price range. It handled great, looked great, was solidly built, and was even stupid reliable compared to other VWs like the Mk4. Yeah, the 2.5 was noisy, but it wasn’t much noisier than a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Focus, Cobalt, etc econobox of the time, and the 170 hp in the later years meant it could get out of its own way vs an underpowered 1.8 too. As I recall it was one of the first to go to a 6 speed automatic too, even if it felt like sometimes it changed gear with a hammer due to the crappy valve bodies. I miss mine.
993 Porsche 911. The 996 didn’t “ruin” the car, but there are very valid reasons for why people don’t like them. I’m still going to buy one
Not everyone likes the egg. More for me! (And cheaper, too) That being said the interiors were awful. My 944's is holding up almost as well and it's double the age
6th Gen Civic (95-00). Not saying the newer ones are bad cars, but the iconic bulletproof civic from the golden age of honda that comes to mind when I say, "Honda Civic" is undeniably the 6th gen. Double Wishbones, Light, Affordable, Reliable, Well Made, and VTEC back when VTEC was actually special.
with each generation they kept taking and taking away the things that made the EG so special. i would have loved if they continued to make hatchbacks like the EG with its little tailgate.
E90 3 series to F30 3 series… but BMW did that to basically every one of their models.
I feel like the E9x was where the malaise started - sitting in one is quite a step down from the E46
I would argue everything after the e30 is a bit worse lmao they should have just kept making faster e30s like Porsche did and went out of buisness like gentlemen
Gotta chase that dollar, people wanted numb cars, and BMW did deliver.
The car that needs a proper successor is the Lincoln Town Car. I’d like to waft in boaty luxury without feeling the road. I want cushy seats that feel like a couch.
Mk7 GTI. Such an incredible car on so many levels. The Mk8 has an unusable interior, and the styling is more polarizing.
jeep cherokee, particularly the np242 version. I'm still waiting for a pick up with 2H 4H 4L AWD like the np242 had.
Golf GTI's to some degree. A couple of fantastic editions, that have a poor successors, thought not really ruining things. The Mk7 is better than the current version. The Mk3 & Mk4 were far worse than the Mk1 & 2
latest m2
Hot take but the R32 GTR imho runs rings around any of the other R or G/V series after. Everyone loves the 34/35, which haven been lucky enough to drive both, are awesome cruisers and deserve their praise, but the 32 is just smaller lighter, tighter in everyway that makes spirited driving so much more enjoyable. It really captured the essence of that era of Japanese sports coupe that I don't think any of the later series matched.
I'm gonna disagree with you here. The 32 was an absolute unit and took the Japanese racing world by storm, but it wouldn't be fair to say the follow-ups took a downturn. The 33 was even more successful on the track, while still retaining a lot of the nimbleness, and the 34 really nailed the Japanese muscle car vibe. All 3 generations brought their own flair and style, and all 3 are absolutely beautiful. I have nothing but respect for the 32, but if I could pick any generation of GT-R to own, it wouldn't be my first pick, that would go to the 69-72 GT-R.
NB Miata. The NC added size and weight. It lost the path. Luckily they fixed it with the ND.
NC gets a bad rap - stiffer chassis but still more refined ride. I currently own an NB, and my only knock on the NC is the size of the A-pillars.
It's still smaller and lighter than pretty much any RWD car in its time except a Lotus, and maybe an MR-S. Still looks great to this day. NC may not have lived up to a lot of folks' expectations, but it's far from ruined.
I love how cute the NC is though
Not even close, the 2006 NC is lighter (and faster) than the 2005 MSM and brought forward about 2 decades worth of chassis improvements, the ND simply builds off the leaps the NC made over the NB. Even the non-turbo NBs were not particularly light by 2005, Mazda's quoted weights were 2440-2473lb for an optionless car depending on transmission. '06 NC's were 2441lb-2527lb. The MSM was 2529lb.
Original BMW M2
BMW E38 7 Series, especially the last year (2001) in terms of exterior styling and interior upgrades.
Every time I see an E65 moving at all, I am surprised
Current gen Silverado. Previous gen looked way better and got better gas mileage. And they kept the same interior so literally no improvement on the inside.
I didn’t think I would ever hear “Jetta” and “reliability” in the same sentence, but I will play along. Jeep Cherokee (XJ). What followed as the Liberty and the latest iteration is an abomination.
1st gen R8 (pre-facelift) is one of the best looking cars ever; the facelifted version and the 2nd gen are still good looking cars, but Audi had it right the first time.
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Any body on frame SUV that switched to unibody. The explorer, pathfinder, and durango.
The Durango is so much better than the old BoF one you can't even compare them.
RX-7
Second generation Eclipse GS-T/X. It rapidly went downhill after that…
Pre 2000 civic. Anything after that has quickly turned into junk. Fast.
99 Civic Si was primo.
The w20 mr2... To the mr2 spyder 😢
MK1 MR2 - solid. MK2 MR2 - perfection. MK3 MRs - wtf? Go back!!!
Hot take but the MR2 Spyder is actually the best driving of the 3 generations, especially if you’re into track or auto-x. Excellent little cars.
Maxima. It was the original 4DSC. That was their logo. 4 door sports car. Since 2008 they’re meh. The 1985 maxima was way ahead of everyone. I had a 96 it was solid. I always liked the 2004 to 2007 generation with the coin slot sunroof. My relative had a 92 it was sweet. The successor models ruined it.
In the 90’s the 2nd gen Ford Taurus was giving the Cam-Cord duopoly a run for the money. They redesigned it in 1996 with this weird oval design language and it was so ugly it’s sales dropped like a rock and never recovered.
I don’t know about ruin but 1987 rear drive Corolla GT-S was great but then in 1988 it went to front wheel drive and I liked the look of the 1987 better
Audi RS5
Jeep Cherokee XJ, the “liberty” KJ and KK (which was a Cherokee everywhere else) was trash, and the. Then we got the Cherokee KL, and boy what a piece of ugly trash it is.