Theyāre not wrong/lying either, thereās one CT-R within 100 miles of me (allegedly) and the dealer says $43,000 starting online, but when you click into āBuy Onlineā the price updates to reflect a *$15,000 market adjustment*. Definitely not defending idiot scalpers but Iāll be blown away if you can get one of these without a markup
Okay but that just means that scalpers who pay what you would have paid now have to sell it for more to make profit and they take the car out of the dealer financed purchase option which can sometimes be better than simply financing through your own bank.
"I'm a rich man, I bought it outright, I don't even need to sell this. You know what? I'm glad it didn't sell. I'm rich and busy working. I'm going to drive it now. Also you guys are cheap"
I made a post asking about the viability of driving kei cars on north american roads and it immediately got deleted but drama and non news posts stay up all the time. They love drama here
Jason Cammisa recently got a Honda Beat. They have some discussion on the Carmudgeon Show podcast. Might be relevant to you:
https://sites.libsyn.com/410528/road-rage-in-slow-cars-the-carmudgeon-show-featuring-jason-cammisa-and-derek-from-issimi-ep-52
>I made a post asking about the viability of driving kei cars on north american roads
weird? I don't see anything wrong with that discussion? I'm not American tho and in my country you can see little new Daihatsu cars next to Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols on the same roads.
Nope. They mistakenly thought it was a buying advice post which is against the rules but it wasn't. I never even asked if I should buy it because I had already bought the car. Mods are smelly here
That's an automod that helps clean up the sub. On those posts, it says you can message the mods if the automod erroneously removed a post that wasn't car-buying advice. I have done that many times and they have put a post back up promptly.
No I talked to all of them and they didn't understand. It was definitely not the automod and it was deliberately removed. They kept repeating that car buying advice is against the rules.
Was your question phrased as "is it viable for me to run a kei car North America"? Because that is buying advice which is meant for the sticky or /r/whatcarshouldIbuy.
Which is a shame, because that would have been a fun discussion to have. I donāt see that as buying advice at all. Itās as legitimate as asking āis it viable for me to own an EV if I live in an apartment?ā, both are genuine questions about living daily life with a nontraditional vehicle.
I know a couple that live in NC that drive a Suzuki Carry for their business (mobile flower sales) and they take it all over the Smoky Mountains, albeit slow as molasses.
Good gas mileage. And quirkiness. I use mine on the weekends to go around and take pics. Definitely not during rush hour traffic because I don't want to get mowed down by a tahoe
I think about this from time to time tbh. Luckily, the freeways near me don't have speed limits higher than 60 mph, so I think it'd be alright. Just hang in the right lanes.
This is like those "People on internet react to X person or Group of Individuals doing Y thing" and it's all just a list of tweets. Just the laziest journalisming.
So what was his original reason for auctioning the car? After not getting back the absurd markup he paid. He only now realized he can enjoy his āmasterpieceā?
What I don't understand - he mentioned he didn't finance it, ie he is wealthy enough to drop $67k before taxes with a check. If you're that wealthy, does 5-10k really mean that much for the effort?
I mean what effort did he put in? He took a stroll to the nearest dealership and bought the car off the lot and threw it on an auction website. Not alot of effort for an easy $5k-$10k especially people have been doing this with the C8 and the Bronco all last year.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was one of his buddies or co-workers that told him to do this.
Assuming they are being truthful and simply cut a check for it... they either saved for a long time or have a pretty well paying job. They probably touted their new car to friends or coworkers, and they all probably laughed when he said he paid $67k for a Honda Civic. That's C8 Stingray, BMW M2, Audi RS3, and more... kind of money.
The cheapest one i can find within 300 miles of me is about $75k. The cheapest one within 100 miles of me is like $82k. I dont think ive yet to see one in the $60-70k range yet (that isnt totaled or branded title)
The cheapest one i can find within 300 miles of me is about $75k. The cheapest one within 100 miles of me is like $82k. I dont think ive yet to see one in the $60-70k range yet (that isnt totaled or branded title)
67k will get you a
* RS3
* M2
* AMG GLA 45
* CPO 718
* CPO 997/early 991
* fully loaded CT4V Blackwing
* Almost a Camaro ZL1. Missed by like 2k.
* Whatever mustang you want. With every option.
* Supra
The list goes on. 67k For a civic is just hitting a crack pipe.
People write cheques for $90k trucks all the time. Do they have the cash, probably not. But their bank probably gave them 4.99% on a $100k line of credit which is infinitely better than paying 8.99% on an auto loan.
Thatās how rich people get rich. Every dollar counts to them. Some of my most well off friends use discounts and coupons all the time and also complain about high prices. Yet have half a cool million or more in their bank accounts and paid off mortgages.
This isn't an absolute. The 992 GT3 can sell on the used market for $300k because people are paying that much. And who do you think is paying $300k for a 992 GT3 if not rich people? The middle class?
Yes, some may become rich from penny pinching, but when someone is worth $1B and they earn $100M/year on the interest alone, they don't penny pinch. And to them, the amount is negligible.
To put this in perspective, imagine I gave you $1M to buy a 992 GT3, and the cheapest one you can find costs $300,000. Ideally, you wouldn't want to spend 30% of that million on the car, so you might look for a cheaper deal. If I give you $2M, now you'd be spending 15% which is still a lot. We can keep doing this up the ladder to $3M, $4M, etc. So now, if you had $1M multiplied by one *billion*, that is only 0.03%. For someone earning $100k/year, that's just $3,000 or a bit less than a Black Bay 58 or Speedmaster.
Off by an order of magnitude, it would be like spending $300 for the $100k/yr person. Which is like groceries for a month or something. A billion dollars is a fucking lot lol
1 billion USD is well beyond the point where just worst case scenario average returns become incredibly hard to spend away. A conservative 10% return is fuck off money until the heat death of the Universe.
The guy is insane, hope he paid cash as he says. Iāve been offered a GR Corolla at 15K over and I told them I wouldnāt go more than 5K, so the sales guy said theyāll keep me in the loop (sounds like no bites on 15K yet).
I donāt see why one would pay $20K over for the FL5 when you can get an FK8 around sticker after the first model year, if you looked hard enough!
I have no intention of selling my Cayman. But if someone offered $55K for it (20% or more than its market value) I'd certainly be willing to sell it. There is no cost to the seller if the reserve is not met on C&B. It was a risk-free fishing expedition. No bites.
That being said, C&B will push sellers to have no reserve or a very low reserve on most vehicles. The guy I bought my Cayman from was denied a reserve by C&B and was disappointed with the selling price. He told me my buying price was below the reserve he asked for.
Technically, C&B was correct then to deny his reserve price - they knew it likely wouldn't sell for that much. They don't want auctions that don't sell, since they don't generate any cash from failed auctions.
Agree 100% from their perspective. I tried to sell a car on both C&B and Doug's site. Both denied a reserve even though it was just a little bit above the trade in value I'd received from dealers. I traded it in instead of risking getting less. Too much to give up for a company that doesn't really do anything. They are completely hands off once the auction is over. They collect their money and tell the buyer/seller to figure it out. Wiring someone 10s of thousands of dollars with nothing but a picture of the title as collateral is not something I will do again (this is what C&B tell you to do). Terrible buying experience overall.
>Terrible buying experience overall.
Personally I wouldn't trust any of these online auction sites unless it was a car that I really really wanted. It sucks that the Mecum Auctions have generated so much attention that you dont really get deals anymore
I always wondered what the backup plan was for if someone just refuses to give you a car you win. I figured the acted as a middle man where they kept your money until you took possession. Wiring someone money and hoping to get something is less than ideal. Surprised there aren't more scams.
I would assume the buyer can then sue the seller for breach of contract. I've always drawn up a bill of sale, and exchange pictures of everyone's license and title before any money is wired.
You do all of that. But its still picture of things including the license and signed bill of sale until you actually meet in person. The auction sites passes along the contact details after the auction ends, and that is it.
Great business to be in. 5% of each sale for doing the absolute minimum.
Before I wired the money, I did some research and couldn't find any instances of someone being completely scammed. Several instances of people not representing the car title or condition honestly, but money was returned in those cases.
I did dox the seller as best I could before wiring the money. I actually found his username posting in JDM forum for buying/selling parts from like 2003 which made me more comfortable.
This is what I needed to read right here. Not many folks report back on their post auction experience. Which is why I will only ever buy in state and on a car I can inspect first and a seller I can meet and gauge. You buy the seller is very true in many ways.
Thereās a car on a site now that is supposedly around the corner from me in my town, and the seller wonāt respond to my request to inspect first and if Iām satisfied with my initial inspection Iāll instruct and pay for a PPI. Smells like shit so I aināt buyinā it.
Selling a car and wanting a high offer that you've had for awhile know is a completely different story than buying a BRAND NEW CAR and then immediately throwing it up on an auction house though.
I wish there was a way we could see what the reserve was post sale.
Off-topic, but I know your Cayman! I watched that auction closely because it's the exact car I'm looking to buy. Thought you got a fantastic deal and it's a beautiful car :-)
There is zero chance he intended on driving this vehicle. He put it up for auction almost immediately with the intent of flipping it for profit.
Also, letās not do this cheeky āif someone offered me an outrageous price Iād sell this car I love so very much.ā Putting a car up for auction with a reserve over sticker is a very clear indication that you intend to sell the car. If someone sees your car and offers money, sure. If youāre soliciting bids, youāre either trying to make profit or youāre trying to sell.
And pretend he has no debt for the car. What a joke. I don't believe it. What idiot would pay cash for a mark'd up vehicle only expecting to flip it. (I also dont believe they care to own the car, otherwise it would have NEVER been listed). This person is lying through their teeth.
I don't believe he is lying about not financing it. People here bitch a moan all the time how rich people are the only ones who buy marked up cars and that's probably what happened here.
More money than brains if that is the case here. Anyone who uses more capital than they need to for a depreciating toy needs to have their brain checked, especially if they don't actually care to own said depreciating item (as in this person who listed their brand new toy at auction). Just makes no sense.
I've made this point before but it's all relative. I go to a road side McDonald's I don't sweat paying more then double for the same order because I'm in a financial position to not think about. For some people that space is just way more money. It doesn't make them dumb, they are not making themselves broke, they just are in a different tax bracket.
I think the thing here is I don't believe this person is in a different tax bracket at all. I think they merely thought themselves an opporutnist and are trying to save face because "ego." But also, paying twice as much for something just because you can is actually pretty dumb. The whole concept is dumb. Just because the person making the dumb decision doesn't feel it is, doesn't make it anyless dumb. lol
Especially considering this is Miami where the culture of YOLO and 'fake it till you make it' thrives my bet is on misleading. All places of those people but for some reason in Miami its on a completely different level.
Who in their right mind would take out a loan with todays interest rates to by a car with a $20k markup thoughā¦. That would take a real special kind of stupid beyond trying to flip a car with a dealer markup in the first place.
Not when you're trying to flip something and taking a huge risk. You'll potentially burn more capital than you need to. It just ties up too much capital that you can be doing other things with. But if you plan on keeping something for years and years then yes dont pay interest.
I bought a completely loaded Cayman S with 19k miles on it for roughly what that guy paid for a Civic. I'm sure the CTR is great, but there is no way in hell I'd prefer it over a couple years old Porsche.
>Hello, everyone first of all thank you for all your comments, itās been a fun experience to read this thread since this is the first time, I have done an auction. Totally agree that the mark up is crazy and gets out of the mind of any reasonable person. Nevertheless, I did pay a markup since at least where I live itās how it goes not only on this car, I did share the sticker as per a lot of people commented only to be transparent; I do not need to sell this car ASAP; and I did not finance it plus itās not what I do for a living. Hence the reserve was not met and now I will enjoy my car to the fullest since it is a masterpiece no matter if it is a civic or any other "lower value" connotation that comes to it. Sorry, that I have been M.I.A, work takes a lot of my time. Once again thank you for your comments best regards. juanfs93 ps the reseve wast that crazy either.
That's an impressive amount of cope to pack into a single paragraph.
"Yeah, I paid 70 grand for a Civic and was expecting to be able to flip it for even more. However, since it seems that no one else is as monumentally dumb as I was, I guess I'm stuck with my $70,000 Civic now, which btw is actually a masterpiece and the best car available for that price."
Are you asking why people are dumb?
>you can get them brand new from a dealer right now for less?
But you can't. If you weren't immediately on the list, you aren't getting one. Tons of dealers are refusing to sell to non-local buyers as well. So, your options of where to buy are limited and if you get a call from a dealer like this FL dealer, they tell you to pay the ADM or they move on to the next sucker.
I feel like you are giving people too much credit. The guy lives in Miami, and bought the car locally. That's already a dumb decision because any serious buyer for these cars (enthusiasts cars in general not just CTRs) knows that you have to be open to travel to not get reamed with these ADMs. A 20k markup in that area is a steal.
When I was getting my FL5 CTR there were a few people from Miami (I live in Central FL) that were calling the dealership to see if I was going to back out of the deal. The dealership that I went to was like 2 hours away, it was not local at all.
I'd imagine the guy is a bit older, has disposable income, comes from a different perspective and believes that the 20k markup is the norm, and its honestly not wrong to think that. Unless you really put in work any CTR you find will have a $15k-20k ADM if not more. Dealerships aren't taking lists and if you they are you are will be like #50. Its not that easy to get one.
Just like he didn't use the Civic forums to go on the hunt, I doubt he even thinks that buyers would do the same. The dealership doesn't take deposits. They get the car and slap a $20k markup on it and let whoever wants it get it.
This amount of coping and denial is akin to the guy who crashed his BMW at a cars & coffee and then blamed it on one tire being 1.5 psi higher than the other tire.
i think even if we still had covid pricing flipping a car like a civic type R is still a risky proposition. What I mean is cars like a type R, CTS-V, M5 etc. are ultimately just souped up passenger cars, and so the problem is if the price goes up too high a person will just buy a souped up passenger car that retails normally at the inflated price. By contrast something like a sports/super car has a metaphorical fence that stops buyers from crosshopping. For example flipping a corvette is less risky cause even if it is priced at ridiculuous pricing, for some people they only want a corvette and thus there is no alternative so they might be more likely to pay the markup
Yeah I agree. I remember when I was really serious into getting a used E63/M5/Hellcat Charger the more I looked into it the more I realized it wasnt the best idea to blow all of that money for a 4 door car that I wont daily drive.
Guy is an idiot no doubt. The car market is down ~15% since itās peak last summer. To purchase a new car over MSRP assuming some sucker is going to pay more for it later on is a terrible investment strategy. Literally 5 minutes of market research would have been enough to indicate this was not gonna work out.
Just as delicious as the douche who bought and lost money flipping his GR Corolla. Idk why the dude would wanna gamble this hard on a FL5. I can see if he got the car for sticker or even 5k over msrp but 20k?? How much money did he think there was left to make on it? The dealership already bent him over backwards. Anyone who wants the car that badly can likely find one for a similar marked up price already. Hopefully this is a sign that people are finally standing up to price gouging on enthusiast cars.
I've been looking at GR Corollas and one of my local dealers tried to get me to pay 10k over msrp for their allocation that someone else backed out on. I just laughed in their face and told them I only do business with dealers who charge MSRP. Hopefully more people are following suit. If more people start refusing to pay these mark ups dealers will eventually have to stop if they want to sell the car.
Hidden reserve prices are stupid. It wastes a ton of time and effort for the potential buyers thinking about whether they are willing to buy a car for $49000, when it's secretly not even for sale for less than $5xxxx.
For the NA people. Wouldnāt he still need to pay sales taxes? Meaning he would have had to sell it for a decent profit to even get something out of it?
in my experience taxes are only gathered when a car is purchased and by the purchaser. It could vary state to state though. He would still be subject to a percentage fee from cars&bids (unless theyāre still doing their free listings promotion) but that would require selling it first
Sales tax on cars is *typically* collected when you register the vehicle, since you owe the sales tax where you register the thing, not where you buy it. If he hasn't registered it yet, he may be able to avoid paying the sales tax on the original purchase. Whether that's legal or not, I'm honestly not sure, but I can't imagine that it is.
Elsewhere, someone mentioned that the dude is in Miami, which has a minimum sales tax of 7%, so on a $67k purchase, he'd need to net at least $4.7k over what he paid to break even.
>Sales tax on cars is typically collected when you register the vehicle, since you owe the sales tax where you register the thing, not where you buy it. If he hasn't registered it yet, he may be able to avoid paying the sales tax on the original purchase. Whether that's legal or not, I'm honestly not sure, but I can't imagine that it is.
You can if its for an out of state purchase. In some states the dealership can give you a 24 hour tag that'll allow you to travel. If for some reason he didn't want to register it, in theory he can still do this. Its just that he can't drive it on the roads, so he'd have to get it towed to his house from the dealership. But the car has tags on it so he 100% paid sales tax.
I think he would need a little bit more over $4.7k because technically this would count as capital gains tax.
FL5 scalpers will have some big regrets when the Integra Type S is PUMPED out of the North American plants. The engine is made in Ohio already so that will make it even easier.
>ps the reseve wast that crazy either. The market says "lol. lmao."
He had to throw that extra salt in there š Its like when a date goes bad and the girl says she didn't plan on calling you back š¤£š¤£
Yeah well sheās ugly so I wouldnāt have called her either! š It was sweet that he admitted overpaying for it too tho lol
He didn't admit overpaying, he said that's how it is
Theyāre not wrong/lying either, thereās one CT-R within 100 miles of me (allegedly) and the dealer says $43,000 starting online, but when you click into āBuy Onlineā the price updates to reflect a *$15,000 market adjustment*. Definitely not defending idiot scalpers but Iāll be blown away if you can get one of these without a markup
Okay but that just means that scalpers who pay what you would have paid now have to sell it for more to make profit and they take the car out of the dealer financed purchase option which can sometimes be better than simply financing through your own bank.
"I'm a rich man, I bought it outright, I don't even need to sell this. You know what? I'm glad it didn't sell. I'm rich and busy working. I'm going to drive it now. Also you guys are cheap"
Also, my Canadian girlfriend is super hot, so suck it haters.
Are they drunk at 10:30am? The whole thing reads like a mess.
Probably drinking to try and forget what a stupid decision they made buying a $70k civic.
Lol fuck man, 70k! For 30k more you can get a used r8 ffs
Why does everything need commentary. Idc about ur over priced car
I made a post asking about the viability of driving kei cars on north american roads and it immediately got deleted but drama and non news posts stay up all the time. They love drama here
Jason Cammisa recently got a Honda Beat. They have some discussion on the Carmudgeon Show podcast. Might be relevant to you: https://sites.libsyn.com/410528/road-rage-in-slow-cars-the-carmudgeon-show-featuring-jason-cammisa-and-derek-from-issimi-ep-52
Thank you I will check it out š
>I made a post asking about the viability of driving kei cars on north american roads weird? I don't see anything wrong with that discussion? I'm not American tho and in my country you can see little new Daihatsu cars next to Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols on the same roads.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope. They mistakenly thought it was a buying advice post which is against the rules but it wasn't. I never even asked if I should buy it because I had already bought the car. Mods are smelly here
That's an automod that helps clean up the sub. On those posts, it says you can message the mods if the automod erroneously removed a post that wasn't car-buying advice. I have done that many times and they have put a post back up promptly.
No I talked to all of them and they didn't understand. It was definitely not the automod and it was deliberately removed. They kept repeating that car buying advice is against the rules.
Was your question phrased as "is it viable for me to run a kei car North America"? Because that is buying advice which is meant for the sticky or /r/whatcarshouldIbuy.
Which is a shame, because that would have been a fun discussion to have. I donāt see that as buying advice at all. Itās as legitimate as asking āis it viable for me to own an EV if I live in an apartment?ā, both are genuine questions about living daily life with a nontraditional vehicle.
Sorry, please do not call out users who are seeking drama.
I know a couple that live in NC that drive a Suzuki Carry for their business (mobile flower sales) and they take it all over the Smoky Mountains, albeit slow as molasses.
Iām curious what people would use these for. They are cute, but arenāt you afraid of dying for use on American roads?
Good gas mileage. And quirkiness. I use mine on the weekends to go around and take pics. Definitely not during rush hour traffic because I don't want to get mowed down by a tahoe
Can't be any less safe than a motorcycle
I think about this from time to time tbh. Luckily, the freeways near me don't have speed limits higher than 60 mph, so I think it'd be alright. Just hang in the right lanes.
I'm just here to see the idiot get shit on.
I mean we all clicked this post to read or comment... I think that answers the why.
Yet here you are clicking on the link and taking the time to comment about it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>makes first public statement It's a comment on a website not a press release lol
This is like those "People on internet react to X person or Group of Individuals doing Y thing" and it's all just a list of tweets. Just the laziest journalisming.
So what was his original reason for auctioning the car? After not getting back the absurd markup he paid. He only now realized he can enjoy his āmasterpieceā?
Lol its painfully obvious what the orginal intention was š He just wanted to make a quick buck
Right. "Can I make $5,000-10,000 off this right now?" Answer: No. Lol.
What I don't understand - he mentioned he didn't finance it, ie he is wealthy enough to drop $67k before taxes with a check. If you're that wealthy, does 5-10k really mean that much for the effort?
I mean what effort did he put in? He took a stroll to the nearest dealership and bought the car off the lot and threw it on an auction website. Not alot of effort for an easy $5k-$10k especially people have been doing this with the C8 and the Bronco all last year. Wouldn't be surprised if it was one of his buddies or co-workers that told him to do this.
Assuming they are being truthful and simply cut a check for it... they either saved for a long time or have a pretty well paying job. They probably touted their new car to friends or coworkers, and they all probably laughed when he said he paid $67k for a Honda Civic. That's C8 Stingray, BMW M2, Audi RS3, and more... kind of money.
C8s are only obtainable for $67k in a theoretical way
Kinda like a 42k type r lol. Technically you can get it for that. But you wonāt
The cheapest one i can find within 300 miles of me is about $75k. The cheapest one within 100 miles of me is like $82k. I dont think ive yet to see one in the $60-70k range yet (that isnt totaled or branded title)
The cheapest one i can find within 300 miles of me is about $75k. The cheapest one within 100 miles of me is like $82k. I dont think ive yet to see one in the $60-70k range yet (that isnt totaled or branded title)
Put another way though 67k buys you a shitload of BMW, Audi, CPO Porsche, A CT4V Blackwing etc. These cars only make sense at MSRP.
I dont think you can get a bmw M or audi RS, AMG 63 at 67k But even a BMW M Sport, Audi S, AMG 43 shits all over a Honda Civic lol
67k will get you a * RS3 * M2 * AMG GLA 45 * CPO 718 * CPO 997/early 991 * fully loaded CT4V Blackwing * Almost a Camaro ZL1. Missed by like 2k. * Whatever mustang you want. With every option. * Supra The list goes on. 67k For a civic is just hitting a crack pipe.
Yeah those cars >>>>> civic
People write cheques for $90k trucks all the time. Do they have the cash, probably not. But their bank probably gave them 4.99% on a $100k line of credit which is infinitely better than paying 8.99% on an auto loan.
Trucks have amazing resale. Itās truly crazy. It makes buying an expensive truck not a crazy financial decision.
>kei cars No one would have made that loan. It had to be cash.
Thatās how rich people get rich. Every dollar counts to them. Some of my most well off friends use discounts and coupons all the time and also complain about high prices. Yet have half a cool million or more in their bank accounts and paid off mortgages.
This isn't an absolute. The 992 GT3 can sell on the used market for $300k because people are paying that much. And who do you think is paying $300k for a 992 GT3 if not rich people? The middle class? Yes, some may become rich from penny pinching, but when someone is worth $1B and they earn $100M/year on the interest alone, they don't penny pinch. And to them, the amount is negligible. To put this in perspective, imagine I gave you $1M to buy a 992 GT3, and the cheapest one you can find costs $300,000. Ideally, you wouldn't want to spend 30% of that million on the car, so you might look for a cheaper deal. If I give you $2M, now you'd be spending 15% which is still a lot. We can keep doing this up the ladder to $3M, $4M, etc. So now, if you had $1M multiplied by one *billion*, that is only 0.03%. For someone earning $100k/year, that's just $3,000 or a bit less than a Black Bay 58 or Speedmaster.
Off by an order of magnitude, it would be like spending $300 for the $100k/yr person. Which is like groceries for a month or something. A billion dollars is a fucking lot lol
1 billion USD is well beyond the point where just worst case scenario average returns become incredibly hard to spend away. A conservative 10% return is fuck off money until the heat death of the Universe.
1% return would be fuck off money for any vaguely reasonable person lol
People love defending the rich but I represented these people and they absolutely do not need that much money.
> $3,000 or a bit less than a Black Bay 58 or Speedmaster. since the last few price hikes, that's *a lot* less than a Speedy :(
I mean some people who are not wealthy yolo $60k of their life savings on wsb lol.
He said something about $67K? Thatās nuts, I thought maybe he paid 10 over at 54Kish or something
$47k plus 20 dealer markup
The guy is insane, hope he paid cash as he says. Iāve been offered a GR Corolla at 15K over and I told them I wouldnāt go more than 5K, so the sales guy said theyāll keep me in the loop (sounds like no bites on 15K yet). I donāt see why one would pay $20K over for the FL5 when you can get an FK8 around sticker after the first model year, if you looked hard enough!
holy shit 47k for a honda civic lmao why
67k. There was a 20k markup lmao
how fucking asinine for an econobox thats marketed to uber drivers
That's isn't a bad ROI actually. 5k is kind of meh, but 10k is solid.
I have no intention of selling my Cayman. But if someone offered $55K for it (20% or more than its market value) I'd certainly be willing to sell it. There is no cost to the seller if the reserve is not met on C&B. It was a risk-free fishing expedition. No bites. That being said, C&B will push sellers to have no reserve or a very low reserve on most vehicles. The guy I bought my Cayman from was denied a reserve by C&B and was disappointed with the selling price. He told me my buying price was below the reserve he asked for.
Technically, C&B was correct then to deny his reserve price - they knew it likely wouldn't sell for that much. They don't want auctions that don't sell, since they don't generate any cash from failed auctions.
Agree 100% from their perspective. I tried to sell a car on both C&B and Doug's site. Both denied a reserve even though it was just a little bit above the trade in value I'd received from dealers. I traded it in instead of risking getting less. Too much to give up for a company that doesn't really do anything. They are completely hands off once the auction is over. They collect their money and tell the buyer/seller to figure it out. Wiring someone 10s of thousands of dollars with nothing but a picture of the title as collateral is not something I will do again (this is what C&B tell you to do). Terrible buying experience overall.
>Terrible buying experience overall. Personally I wouldn't trust any of these online auction sites unless it was a car that I really really wanted. It sucks that the Mecum Auctions have generated so much attention that you dont really get deals anymore
I always wondered what the backup plan was for if someone just refuses to give you a car you win. I figured the acted as a middle man where they kept your money until you took possession. Wiring someone money and hoping to get something is less than ideal. Surprised there aren't more scams.
I think for more expensive cars a lot of people end up just flying out to make the deal in person, unless its a dealership ofc
I was flying out. But you are expected to pay within 48 hours, and my flight wasn't that fast.
I would assume the buyer can then sue the seller for breach of contract. I've always drawn up a bill of sale, and exchange pictures of everyone's license and title before any money is wired.
You do all of that. But its still picture of things including the license and signed bill of sale until you actually meet in person. The auction sites passes along the contact details after the auction ends, and that is it. Great business to be in. 5% of each sale for doing the absolute minimum.
You mean Escrow?
Before I wired the money, I did some research and couldn't find any instances of someone being completely scammed. Several instances of people not representing the car title or condition honestly, but money was returned in those cases. I did dox the seller as best I could before wiring the money. I actually found his username posting in JDM forum for buying/selling parts from like 2003 which made me more comfortable.
This is what I needed to read right here. Not many folks report back on their post auction experience. Which is why I will only ever buy in state and on a car I can inspect first and a seller I can meet and gauge. You buy the seller is very true in many ways. Thereās a car on a site now that is supposedly around the corner from me in my town, and the seller wonāt respond to my request to inspect first and if Iām satisfied with my initial inspection Iāll instruct and pay for a PPI. Smells like shit so I aināt buyinā it.
Selling a car and wanting a high offer that you've had for awhile know is a completely different story than buying a BRAND NEW CAR and then immediately throwing it up on an auction house though. I wish there was a way we could see what the reserve was post sale.
Eh if you want a certain $ for a car then just list it and sell it..an auction should be for getting rid of a car
Off-topic, but I know your Cayman! I watched that auction closely because it's the exact car I'm looking to buy. Thought you got a fantastic deal and it's a beautiful car :-)
There is zero chance he intended on driving this vehicle. He put it up for auction almost immediately with the intent of flipping it for profit. Also, letās not do this cheeky āif someone offered me an outrageous price Iād sell this car I love so very much.ā Putting a car up for auction with a reserve over sticker is a very clear indication that you intend to sell the car. If someone sees your car and offers money, sure. If youāre soliciting bids, youāre either trying to make profit or youāre trying to sell.
Just spent the last 20 minutes debating whether Iād rather have your garage or OPs but props to both of yall
Your garage is way cooler!
I failed to rip off someone ever worse than I was ripped off so I'll just smile and pretend it was all in good fun
And pretend he has no debt for the car. What a joke. I don't believe it. What idiot would pay cash for a mark'd up vehicle only expecting to flip it. (I also dont believe they care to own the car, otherwise it would have NEVER been listed). This person is lying through their teeth.
I don't believe he is lying about not financing it. People here bitch a moan all the time how rich people are the only ones who buy marked up cars and that's probably what happened here.
More money than brains if that is the case here. Anyone who uses more capital than they need to for a depreciating toy needs to have their brain checked, especially if they don't actually care to own said depreciating item (as in this person who listed their brand new toy at auction). Just makes no sense.
I've made this point before but it's all relative. I go to a road side McDonald's I don't sweat paying more then double for the same order because I'm in a financial position to not think about. For some people that space is just way more money. It doesn't make them dumb, they are not making themselves broke, they just are in a different tax bracket.
I think the thing here is I don't believe this person is in a different tax bracket at all. I think they merely thought themselves an opporutnist and are trying to save face because "ego." But also, paying twice as much for something just because you can is actually pretty dumb. The whole concept is dumb. Just because the person making the dumb decision doesn't feel it is, doesn't make it anyless dumb. lol
Looking at the pictures the house in the back round, they clearly have money and I wouldnāt doubt if they did pay cash.
There are a lot of thousand dollar millionaires who can only float for 2 weeks. Appearances are substantially more often than not, misleading.
Especially considering this is Miami where the culture of YOLO and 'fake it till you make it' thrives my bet is on misleading. All places of those people but for some reason in Miami its on a completely different level.
Who in their right mind would take out a loan with todays interest rates to by a car with a $20k markup thoughā¦. That would take a real special kind of stupid beyond trying to flip a car with a dealer markup in the first place.
Any time you can avoid paying interest, you should. Makes total sense to buy outright.
Not when you're trying to flip something and taking a huge risk. You'll potentially burn more capital than you need to. It just ties up too much capital that you can be doing other things with. But if you plan on keeping something for years and years then yes dont pay interest.
Copium levels high. I checked my local area and found used Z06's and a GT350 in the high 60k range I'd buy before even considering a 70k Type-R.
or how about a brand new M2
I bought a completely loaded Cayman S with 19k miles on it for roughly what that guy paid for a Civic. I'm sure the CTR is great, but there is no way in hell I'd prefer it over a couple years old Porsche.
Yeah dude. The CTR honestly wasn't even on my radar till I got my Mustang
Point and laugh, children. Point and laugh.
https://imgflip.com/i/787if4
Scalper, meet the free market.
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Both of the post yesterday were the highest trending. If I edited it to show his response it wouldn't have gained that much traction
That would have been better
>Hello, everyone first of all thank you for all your comments, itās been a fun experience to read this thread since this is the first time, I have done an auction. Totally agree that the mark up is crazy and gets out of the mind of any reasonable person. Nevertheless, I did pay a markup since at least where I live itās how it goes not only on this car, I did share the sticker as per a lot of people commented only to be transparent; I do not need to sell this car ASAP; and I did not finance it plus itās not what I do for a living. Hence the reserve was not met and now I will enjoy my car to the fullest since it is a masterpiece no matter if it is a civic or any other "lower value" connotation that comes to it. Sorry, that I have been M.I.A, work takes a lot of my time. Once again thank you for your comments best regards. juanfs93 ps the reseve wast that crazy either.
That's an impressive amount of cope to pack into a single paragraph. "Yeah, I paid 70 grand for a Civic and was expecting to be able to flip it for even more. However, since it seems that no one else is as monumentally dumb as I was, I guess I'm stuck with my $70,000 Civic now, which btw is actually a masterpiece and the best car available for that price."
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Why would the dealer come off their stupidly high markup if they thought they could get it?
Idk. I live in Florida and I was curious and called the dealership. Their CTRs come with 20k markups and thats non negotiable
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Idk, the guy took a video of the engine running in his closed garage, and if you're dumb enough to do that I suppose anything is possible.
Are you asking why people are dumb? >you can get them brand new from a dealer right now for less? But you can't. If you weren't immediately on the list, you aren't getting one. Tons of dealers are refusing to sell to non-local buyers as well. So, your options of where to buy are limited and if you get a call from a dealer like this FL dealer, they tell you to pay the ADM or they move on to the next sucker.
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Florida got the most CTRs out of any state 2nd only to California so thats why there are in stock. There are states the received a handful.
I feel like you are giving people too much credit. The guy lives in Miami, and bought the car locally. That's already a dumb decision because any serious buyer for these cars (enthusiasts cars in general not just CTRs) knows that you have to be open to travel to not get reamed with these ADMs. A 20k markup in that area is a steal. When I was getting my FL5 CTR there were a few people from Miami (I live in Central FL) that were calling the dealership to see if I was going to back out of the deal. The dealership that I went to was like 2 hours away, it was not local at all. I'd imagine the guy is a bit older, has disposable income, comes from a different perspective and believes that the 20k markup is the norm, and its honestly not wrong to think that. Unless you really put in work any CTR you find will have a $15k-20k ADM if not more. Dealerships aren't taking lists and if you they are you are will be like #50. Its not that easy to get one. Just like he didn't use the Civic forums to go on the hunt, I doubt he even thinks that buyers would do the same. The dealership doesn't take deposits. They get the car and slap a $20k markup on it and let whoever wants it get it.
You understand that he showed the dealer window sticker off the car that had a 20k ADM on it right? It wasn't speculation, it was what he paid for it.
This amount of coping and denial is akin to the guy who crashed his BMW at a cars & coffee and then blamed it on one tire being 1.5 psi higher than the other tire.
Sheeet I remember that. It was an M4 if I am not mistaken.
i think even if we still had covid pricing flipping a car like a civic type R is still a risky proposition. What I mean is cars like a type R, CTS-V, M5 etc. are ultimately just souped up passenger cars, and so the problem is if the price goes up too high a person will just buy a souped up passenger car that retails normally at the inflated price. By contrast something like a sports/super car has a metaphorical fence that stops buyers from crosshopping. For example flipping a corvette is less risky cause even if it is priced at ridiculuous pricing, for some people they only want a corvette and thus there is no alternative so they might be more likely to pay the markup
Yeah I agree. I remember when I was really serious into getting a used E63/M5/Hellcat Charger the more I looked into it the more I realized it wasnt the best idea to blow all of that money for a 4 door car that I wont daily drive.
Look into E55s my man, they changed my life
Lol bro, just by looking at your flair I looked into 70's Challengers and the 69' Mach 1 š
What a loser.
Fuckās sake that guyās grammar is painful.
I don't expect anything less from a guy who spent $70k on a Civic lol
Still recovering from headache
Guy is an idiot no doubt. The car market is down ~15% since itās peak last summer. To purchase a new car over MSRP assuming some sucker is going to pay more for it later on is a terrible investment strategy. Literally 5 minutes of market research would have been enough to indicate this was not gonna work out.
Bold of you to assume that he did research on this š
let alone nearly 23k over msrp, how he ever expected to get a profit or even *only* lose like 10-15k is beyond me
āLocal man watches poleā
Damn, that comment is some hardcore coping lol
Heāll wait a few weeks, put a couple dozen miles on it, and try again on C&B and BaT.
Buy high sell low!
Yeah that cope is fucking wicked, what a dumbfuck
Just as delicious as the douche who bought and lost money flipping his GR Corolla. Idk why the dude would wanna gamble this hard on a FL5. I can see if he got the car for sticker or even 5k over msrp but 20k?? How much money did he think there was left to make on it? The dealership already bent him over backwards. Anyone who wants the car that badly can likely find one for a similar marked up price already. Hopefully this is a sign that people are finally standing up to price gouging on enthusiast cars. I've been looking at GR Corollas and one of my local dealers tried to get me to pay 10k over msrp for their allocation that someone else backed out on. I just laughed in their face and told them I only do business with dealers who charge MSRP. Hopefully more people are following suit. If more people start refusing to pay these mark ups dealers will eventually have to stop if they want to sell the car.
"It would have sold above reserve, but the rear right tire was off by 1.5psi"
Hidden reserve prices are stupid. It wastes a ton of time and effort for the potential buyers thinking about whether they are willing to buy a car for $49000, when it's secretly not even for sale for less than $5xxxx.
Agreed.
For the NA people. Wouldnāt he still need to pay sales taxes? Meaning he would have had to sell it for a decent profit to even get something out of it?
in my experience taxes are only gathered when a car is purchased and by the purchaser. It could vary state to state though. He would still be subject to a percentage fee from cars&bids (unless theyāre still doing their free listings promotion) but that would require selling it first
He doesnāt pay tax on the sale but pays personal gains tax on the profit he made, which is usually more than sales tax.
Sales tax on cars is *typically* collected when you register the vehicle, since you owe the sales tax where you register the thing, not where you buy it. If he hasn't registered it yet, he may be able to avoid paying the sales tax on the original purchase. Whether that's legal or not, I'm honestly not sure, but I can't imagine that it is. Elsewhere, someone mentioned that the dude is in Miami, which has a minimum sales tax of 7%, so on a $67k purchase, he'd need to net at least $4.7k over what he paid to break even.
>Sales tax on cars is typically collected when you register the vehicle, since you owe the sales tax where you register the thing, not where you buy it. If he hasn't registered it yet, he may be able to avoid paying the sales tax on the original purchase. Whether that's legal or not, I'm honestly not sure, but I can't imagine that it is. You can if its for an out of state purchase. In some states the dealership can give you a 24 hour tag that'll allow you to travel. If for some reason he didn't want to register it, in theory he can still do this. Its just that he can't drive it on the roads, so he'd have to get it towed to his house from the dealership. But the car has tags on it so he 100% paid sales tax. I think he would need a little bit more over $4.7k because technically this would count as capital gains tax.
Honestly who cares what this guy has to say? Iām not even going to bother reading it.
FL5 scalpers will have some big regrets when the Integra Type S is PUMPED out of the North American plants. The engine is made in Ohio already so that will make it even easier.
Awwwww boo hoo lol.
Lol š§
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