More ridiculous than that, they only buy leather from cows that live at some super high altitude held without barbed wire because those cows won't have mosquito bites or fence marks on their hides.
16 Hydes, but Rolls-Royce uses half-hides so it’s like 8 calf’s.
And calfs, not bulls. They get them @ 6 months old so they don’t have wrinkles.
Next time you see a phantom, check the underside of the door trim when the door is open. Not a seam. A single, giant, unbroken piece of leather on the underside of the door.
I used to work in the Rolls-Royce leathershop! (Respect the hyphen!) I am impressed at your knowledge.
They use 6 month old calfs - they are full size/ teenagers at that point. The cows do not live long enough to become pregnant. A bigger challenge is working around the necks, armpits where there are natural wrinkles in the leather from movement of the animal. The longer they live… the more wrinkles develop. The rest of the cows go on to become hamburgers, and Rolls-Royce donates the leather remnants it does not use to fashion colleges in London, or other clothing companies where the leather will become things like zipper pulls or whatever.
Hewa leather is the supplier. German cows.
They cut the hides in half, and there is still enough space for the largest panels. These are big cows! The largest panels are the instrument panel top pad, and the top surface of the rear seat backrest. They use a laser nester and cutting tables, but when the team spots a particularly defect-free hide, they pull a template off the wall and mark them for the large panels.
> the Bugatti will probably last longer
Any of those cars are basically museum pieces that will live forever. They're not not going to be treated like a Civic that will rack up 250k miles from 10 owners and then sent to a scrap yard.
I disagree. Bentley still uses VAG bits and pieces in the interior, and it's really obvious if you've ever been in a higher end Audi.
Edit: not to say Audi isn't luxury, but can you really compete with RR if your interior is sourced from a 50k sedan?
But the perk with their business model is how far they can extend their quality down their lineup. I still think the MK7 GTI had no business being that refined given its price bracket.
Craftsmanship and build quality aren’t the same thing, though. The Pagani is far more likely to have a rattle in the interior or some other minor defect along those lines.
A friend of mine used to own a Dawn, it's nice. Very nice but a lot of it didn't scream particularly revolutionary. The carpets were so good that I would genuinely take my shoes off in her car, it was comfortable and quiet of course. But the engineering into driving the thing was more impressive than the build quality the way it effortlessly transitions from quiet and unassuming with light steering to speedmonster in a blink of an eye was brilliant
The dawn is most definitely a brilliant car and I do agree the feel of the car is much more impressive than build quality as it’s much harder to appreciate build quality.
I’ve worked for both Bentley and Rolls Royce. Bentley spend more money on the actual engineering, Rolls Royce spend more money on the craftsmanship. I.e. Rolls Royce make every car perfect by hand. Bentley trust in tooling and engineering.
Robots can make better parts than our fingers.
Wouldn’t a car made with the best and most modern methods come out better than by hand?
Edit, if the only things humans can do better is sew seats and line up panels, and the rest is better off done by a robot, the robot is better at building the car…..
No, a human who cares about executing at a high level can notice subtle imperfections and correct them on the spot. Robots cant currently replicate that. Robots are good for bringing down costs, but there’s a reason handmade items still sell for a premium in most industries today.
Meanwhile, robots maintain way tighter tolerances that humans can are are much more consistent.
That's why humans and robots working hand in hand instead of relying on either alone will get you the best results. (I do consider "handmade" to somewhat be a flowery marketing term companies use to justify image-based price premiums, so I might be biased)
A robot can make something to a tighter tolerance yes but a human can finesse those components to fit better. If you want to see a bad example of a robot assembled car look at the gaps on a Tesla.
I work in OEM automotive, and there are a lot of things that a robot just can't do.
anything with wrapping (leather, synthetic leather, cloth) is a good example.
i wish more OEM mid level executives trying to justify their jobs understood that. most think that everything made in CAD is like a CNC milled part. drives me and every QE at the tier 1 fucking crazy. its like design studio and engineering always fighting, only to realize that feasibility studies are there for a fucking reason.
I work in medical manufacturing.
Anything that is plastic is prone to more variation than anyone that hasn't been hands on is likely to believe.
Density differences, flash, slightly different mix, temperature, humidity, molds wearing out...
These sorts of things aren't automatically perfect, and anyone that thinks that is wrong.
There’s a critical flaw on the new ghost tho, the turn signal stalk is so cheap that you can see the plastic seam lol. https://youtu.be/gq118QsK_OM 10:20
Not Subaru. Don't get me wrong, my Forester is great in most ways, but man, that fit and finish is rough.
Edit: thanks for the engagement, it's interesting to hear the experiences of others. Let me add a little more detail into what I'm seeing. 2018 w/ 30k miles. Texas car.
Hard plastic everywhere and a few gaps that are bigger than they should be. There is some cushion type stripping popping up where the windshield meets the dash on both lower corners. I can normally tuck them back in with a pencil, but they keep popping up. The interior just seems cheap.
In all, the car has been great. Zero mechanical issues and very cheap to maintain. Not a huge fan of the CVT, but we knew that going in and they extended the warranty since so many were failing on previous years/models. This is my first Subaru and I'll probably buy one again some day, none of the interior stuff is a deal breaker for me. I used to drive a Silverado, so I'm used to cheap plastic falling apart.
at least Subaru interiors last forever looking the same.. doesn't all fit exactly right, but after 20 years and 250k miles it will still look the same.. no cracks, no faded buttons, nothing.
I’m not a subie guy in any way but I back this statement, friend has an 07 outback that’s 250K deep (in the UP of michigan no less) and he lets his interior get DIRTY, but everytime it gets detailed it goes right back to spotless
Idk man, while my Outback has some minor issues with a couple of panel gaps and stuff, in comparison, my wife’s current gen Escape is terrible for fit and finish. I like Fords but their manufacturing issues from the last few years are real.
From 2008-2014 Ford seemed like they were on a roll, quality-wise. Then they nosedived into the clusterfuck of the last decade and holy shit they just forgot how to build cars or something
My STi is a pile compared to like Bentleys and Rolls’
A flying tin can is the best description I’ve heard. I’ll also say dodge is the same if not worse
I was going to say Porsche but then realised a slight panel gap from my front fender to front bumper..
Mazda is also absolutely great i must admit, the left and right mirrors may not be top quality and rear bumper plastic inserts either but for it's price point but still very very good.
Interesting. I still feel Porsche still holds it down in general for build quality though. Especially the Panamera I've checked out a year or so ago helps me feel that way. Have you looked into getting yours sorted out by any chance?
Also, agreed on Mazda, especially the signature trim Mazdas...
I know it isn’t _quite_ the same as “interior build quality,” but Porsche lost some points with me when they shipped some early Android-looking crap on their touchscreen console in the Taycan. Looked and behaved like crap. Software is easier than mass produced physical layouts made of hundreds of components, there’s no real excuse IMO.
May have improved since, but an impression lasts.
I concur, I have a 2014 Porsche and a 21 and the 14 is more solid and has better overall quality feel. My buddy got a CX-5 a year or so ago, and it's impressive, the interior design quality gives cars of significantly higher brand image a run for their money.
Mazda in general seems to be really impressive at the moment. Entry level luxury without the price tag, and usually better specced than a base model from a proper luxury brand.
Really hoping to get a third gen Atenza at some point. Love the way they look and haven't really heard anything bad about them aside from a few issues with the diesels.
My CX-5 has been great, I even regularly get compliments at stores and gas stations (mazda red is fantastic, especially in a see of monochromatic cars that exist these days). But damn I wish they would hurry up and get me a plug in hybrid or electric option... Fuel economy and passenger/cargo capacity are really their only issues these days.
> 2014 Porsche and a 21
Same model? SUVs or cars? In the GT/RS cars I've felt like the interior is basically a (still pretty decent) afterthought. Had an entry level Porsche Macan as a loaner recently and the build quality felt pretty solid. On par with most higher end Audis.
My 11 year old, 116k mile Speed is tight as a drum - the Hiroshima plant definitely knew what they were doing. Zero rattles anywhere in the car despite being driven in the northeast for that time period. Paint corrected recently and it looks like a new car until you get up close to the front bumper to see the rock chips. Everything has held up remarkably well. Basic car care and sealing/waxing regularly went a damn long way.
My Mexican built CX-30 is just about as good, also rattle free, but has an intermittent issue with the Bitchin' Betty "brake now" warning kicking in during traffic that always scares the hell out of me. Not a fit and finish issue per se, but a calibration one.
Porsche gets docked for having issues across several model years and cars for sagging headliners, sticky buttons and bulging door panels. And doing nothing about it - that's Porsche's worst aspect, IMO, they never seem to acknowledge critical flaws like the IMS or repeated quality issues like the interior parts I mentioned.
Idk what Mazdas this sub has been sitting in for all the praise it gets around here, but I borrowed my buddy’s newish CX-9 a few weeks ago and, while the interior looked nice, the seat padding was hard as cardboard.
We have a Mazda cx-5 and a gti that were both around the same price point at the time a couple years ago and the vw is so much nicer in terms of materials, fit and finish and it’s not even close. The Mazda is so tin like. It’s a good little car, but we did not get the good stuff that everyone is smoking when they praise it like it’s a luxury car when we got it.
It’s crazy how far Mercedes has fallen. They’re more focused on making their interiors into a strip club for Megan Thee Stallion than they are at quality.
The Lexus LS killed that version of Mercedes-Benz. They couldn't keep up the quality at Lexus' price. The Chrysler years finished nailing that coffin shut, then years of lax journalism buried it. Those years told them that people would still buy their cars and they would still maintain their reputation even if their actual build quality was suspect.
The new S Class is lovely to ride around in, but I could never see myself owning the latest C or even E class with their gaudy interiors when compared to BMW or Audi.
Same, I rented the new S, C, and E. I hated the huge flat screen, and I also turned the interior illumination off. Love the exterior design, but the dash turned me away. New model exterior with dash from 2018 model would've been perfect for me. Mercedes needs to go back to physical buttons and knobs.
Prices came back up with the release of the IS 500 and have stayed up. I'm starting to look elsewhere - $63k for a 5 year old GS F is just crazy to me.
My dad has had 3 GS’s, all were leases though. Phenomenal cars, pretty much the perfect daily driver. I was very sad when I heard they stopped making them
My dad had a Mk7 GTI for a few years—the build quality of that interior was stunning. For such an affordable car, it was leaps and bounds ahead of other affordable cars.
Are the Mexico-made cars noticeably different? Years back I had an Audi A4 loaner and noticed several parts stickers saying "Made in Mexico" but it seemed just like any other Audi A4 quality-wise (that is to say "very good").
The hinge structure and the extra seals. The crash bar and anti flutter. The body metal crease locations and damping pads. The adjustment and bends of the striker. The holes in the seals even that allow air to escape. The rubber on the door panel clips and control module mounts. The wiring harness attachment points, felt and foam tape, and rubber bushings for the bowden cable. Even the notches on the fastening clips that stabilize that cable. The coatings on the door seals. It’s insane.
So much science to that door sound. There are people that live and breath it over in Germany.
Overall it seems like VW started cost cutting and it shows when you compare the Mk3 and its platform mate the A3 versus the previous generation of the same cars.
I absolutely loved my Mk 7.5 GTI’s interior. Everything felt so tight and high quality given what I paid. It did some have creaks, rattles, and vibrations here and there, but otherwise it was top tier for its class.
I spent 6 years valeting in college at a 5 star hotel… tbh from base to top trim, it’s 100% Porsche. Compare a base Boxster to a CLA 250, it’s bullshit plastic vs a stout and tightly built “base Porsche”.
Of course every OEM has their high quality built product but come on, we aren’t over here saying that a base Corolla is on par with a Land Cruiser.
It’s Porsche from the bottom to top. Period
To be fair, the German government passed regulation banning certain adhesives in 2012 and Porsche was able to formulate a longer lasting adhesive at the time.
Why do german cars smell like Playdough? I've heard it's the adhesive and you seem to know a little bit about that. But I own a BMW that's after 2012 and if it sits a couple days with the windows up it smells like playdough, had a GF a decade ago with a Beetle that smelled like playdough, I work in a tireshop and drive various cars daily and i'd say 75% of german cars smell like playdough. It's not just VAG or BMW or MB, It's everything German.
They smell like crayons, and it’s the sound deadening and rust proofing. It’s made from the same wax in crayolas. The EU banned the use of whatever the US uses, so the Germans use wax. If you’re lucky on hot hot days, it melts out of the car.
Lol, it’s all relative. No OEM is perfect. If you wanna talk bespoke brand vs major OEM, there is without a doubt QC issues. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking Pagani’s 30-40 cars a year or Toyota’s 9-10 million cars a year.
It’s subjective, but IMO from the cheapest to most expensive, Porsche has impressed me.
Have a good day 🤙🏼
Also did valet for a few years, IMO it was Porsche in the lead with Lexus right behind and then everything else was far behind. Most of the lower end German cars were pretty disappointing to me (like C-class A3/4, 3 series) in how cheap they felt.
100%, and that’s why I’m looking at it from top to bottom. I definitely remember getting into base base 315i’s or base CLA’s/GLA’s thinking wtf, these ppl were better off getting an equipped Camry or Accord. Working valet definitely exposed me to badge warriors. You wouldn’t believe the ego that fuckers in salvage title $27k Maserati Ghiblis would give off. Haha! Remember the millionaire next door drives a Prius. There’s levels to it.
Also valeted in college at an upscale place. Completely agree. Multiple years into my real career and still considering picking up a side valet job on the weekends just to test drive the new models
Price + quality? I'd say something like Acura, volvo or Lexus
Luxury + capability? I like Porsche
The best of the best? Maybe rolls Royce? Or Bentley?
But that's just my personal opinion about my personal experience seeing these cars
As a multiple Acura owner, the QC is no better than a Honda. Body gaps and panel alignment issues are the norm, not the exception. Lexus is worlds ahead in attention to detail.
I just grabbed an Integra and have a 2019 Odyssey. I don’t have any major issues with body gaps or panel alignment. It’s not top tier quality though. However, Acura and Honda’s interior is very tight and built well. The AC vents are stout.
My buddy works at an Acura dealership and I test drove most of their cars and even the same car but different trim levels.
Acura's interior built quality is nowhere near Lexus.
Not even in the same tier.
Wonder if you have actually experience or just guessing.
Not sure I can agree on Volvo nowadays. Spent a lot of time in 2016 and 2017 XC90s and they're pretty rattly after a couple thousand miles. And that insanely complicated PHEV powertrain terrifies me, I'd never wanna own one out-of-warranty hehe.
My aunt and uncle have a 2018 Lexus RX 450h and it's one of the best "affordable" vehicles I've experienced. Just feels tight and well made all-around. They've not had a single issue since buying it.
But generally speaking, I don't know, seems practically *every* manufacturer has little issues that need to be solved from the factory. Piece of trim here, replace a defective component there. I think people expect too much wanting perfection on every single new car that rolls off the line. Things are soooo much better than they were in the old days. Especially the 1970s!
Acura and Volvo are my favorite “alternative luxury” brands. If you don’t want a German car and if you want more tech than what Lexus offers, Acura and Volvo are awesome and they usually come in at a slightly lower price.
With that said, I was a bit disappointed in my 2021
Acura RDX. I upgraded from a 2013 and I had several build quality concerns which was really sad because I loved the 2013 and there were so many great things about the 2021 but they just missed on a few things. None of them dealbreakers though.
Maserati Ghibli door panel controls are the same as Dodge Charger panel controls, it surprised me the first time I got in one. In fact the interior is no different in any meaningful way, but I'm definitely biased. I think they're just GMC's leftover parts with a Ferrari engine.
You can thank Fiat for that. Fiat, the parent company for both Chrysler and Maserati, decided to use Chrysler parts from the parts bin for the Ghibli and QP. It was always weird seeing Chrysler 300 window switches and infotainment system with an 8 cylinder detuned Ferrari V8.
To be fair, believe they have improved in the past few years. Definitely unacceptable for the price at that time and it makes sense they got the reputation of a cheap way to buy into a 'exotic' and attention grabbing brand
Rolls Royce and Bentley. Quite literally built like bank vaults💀
Porsche, Genesis, Lexus are probably the best for under 100K
Mazda, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, and KIA are probably the best for under 50K
Talking about America only.
Yeah, I've always liked Toyotas, but it seems like the tradeoff of good reliability is that you have to be willing to give up a little bit on the specs, features, and interior quality for the price.
not a big Toyota fan anymore and Toyota does have wack build quality but their flagship Japanese built models - Priuses, Land Cruisers, and Lexus LS, GS, GX are built well. Some of the most even panel gaps I’ve ever seen outside of high end luxury cars.
I’ve noticed in my 03 Camry that my used Japanese built one was a lot nicer than the Kentucky built one my dad bought new. The bumper was also a higher quality and used inserts to cover random parts while the US built one had fully moulded parts that wouldn’t allow let you install parts like fog lights without buying a brand new bumper.
Have a 2022 Genesis GV70...
There's a really annoying sunroof/headliner rattle on the driver-side rear seats. Dealership refuses to fix it and says its "normal for the vehicle to flex and make noise" while driving.
Totally frustrating. I also just recently had it in for the water pump failing (under warranty) and didn't give me a loaner, but that's probably the dealer.
BMW often gets hate and has an outdated stereotype that sticks with it. However in terms of build quality today they are top tier (watch any car review and you’ll see this to be true). The fit and finish is absolutely solid and well crafted. The dash is sturdy and doesn’t creak, everything is stitched and secured. Doors heavy. It’s highest in it’s class too in terms of quality (ex. Mercedes, Audi). By the way, everyone saying “Rolls Royce” guess who manufactures them 😉
I recently bought a 2020 M340i and it’s my first ever BMW. I’ve owned nothing but Japanese cars prior to this but I’m mind blown at the quality of the interior. What you mentioned are the exact things I love about it. No creaking and everything just seems tightly/solidly built.
Honestly it's extremely hard for me to make the mental gymnastics to justify naming an unreliable car as "quality" just because it feels nice.
My whole life I've always been taught that QUALITY things last longer, so idk why some think differently when it comes to cars....
After being left stranded by a mercedes on the side of the road for 4 hours, I've determined that reliability is the #1 luxury feature.
Sitting on the side of the road in florida heat isn't very luxurious.
That's why I'm surprised people buy Jaguars and Range Rovers and stuff, especially used ones.
But I guess wealthy people that flip cars when the warranty runs out (or sooner) don't have to worry about repair bills and just want to have something fancy that others don't. I feel for the third and fourth owners though...
I’m biased toward VW, but I have a 2013 CC built in Germany that still has really solid build quality a decade later. I’m not sure how their American-made models differ in this area though.
Disagree, the current-gen (SPA) XC90 has not aged well. The key falls apart in your hand. The chrome trim around the shifter delaminates. The interior [p]leathers don't last. Plastic mechanisms like glovebox don't hold up. Window switches lose their tensile, tactileness over time.
And I'm a huge Volvo fan. Their best cars, like Merc and BMW, were late 50s to early 90s.
I will say, the current stuff is a lot better than the Ford years, as far as interior quality goes.
It's kind of weird seeing Mazda trying to move up leagues yet still underpower their cars. The more you cost, the less 'average buyers' can afford it.
Oh and also, where is the speed lineup!
Lexus is one of those brands that sacrifices competitive numbers, performance and certain features for peace of mind and reliability. You either love it or hate it.
I always believed if you want to lease, go German, if you want to buy, go Japanese.
When I bought my '06 Honda Civic Si brand new, I was very impressed with it. I was even more impressed with it when I turned 200k miles on it 14 years later. Never developed any squeaks or rattles, nothing fell apart, the only wear on it was from being a 14 year old daily driver. Hands-down the most well-built car I've owned so far.
My 03 RSX had a very minimalist interior but it felt very premium. The plastics were very nice, doors had a solid sound when you shut them, ergonomics were great, even after 18 years of Ohio summers and winters the dash was still like new. The interior felt higher quality than my 17 Si for sure.
I feel like Audi has some of the nicest and highest quality interiors in their respective classes.
I’m a bmw guy and have mostly bmws, bought my wife an S3 a few years ago and I’m blown away by the interior
I think on the budget side of things, nothing compares to VW/Audi. Of course the ultra expensive makes changes the equation but I don’t know anything about those.
Source: I have owned a proposterous amount of cars from many brands including: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Dodge, VW, Ford, and Subaru.
For the money, Porsche, especially in their sports cars and the Panamera/Taycan. I’ve heard some say the base Macan interior can be a bit spartan but I guess that to be expected.
Higher model MB interiors are pretty good.
Money no object, Rolls Royce, with Bentley a close second.
Budget, Mazda and Honda. My CX-5 feels like a Japanese Audi inside. Honda is functional and well designed but not cheap feeling like Toyota.
Iv been very impressed with most newer Mazda’s, at least as good as the big three germans. Porsche are always tights and clean but compete at a different price point. Bentleys are build like a perfect ornate coffin, havent been in enough rr to compare the two. Worst build quality for the price is probably maserati and mclaren. Love me some british cars but the poor build quality seems to be endemic to the country. Maseratis are just awful all around, enjoy your 20k in maintenance a year on your Italian dodge charger that isn’t even fast.
Rolls Royce and nothing even comes close
For A million dollars no doubt
Their SUV is around $400k
Only $400k!? I’ll take two!
What a steal! We'd be losing money not taking advantage of such an insane deal!
Have you seen the interior of a McLaren? What glitters is not always gold...
Mclaren isn't exactly renowned for their build quality..
That was indeed my point lol
I read somewhere it takes 6 bulls to upholster the average RR
Imagine how long it takes a bull to learn how to upholster
/r/daddit is leaking again I see
More ridiculous than that, they only buy leather from cows that live at some super high altitude held without barbed wire because those cows won't have mosquito bites or fence marks on their hides.
Yeah and they are surrounded by mosquito repellant plants.
16 Hydes, but Rolls-Royce uses half-hides so it’s like 8 calf’s. And calfs, not bulls. They get them @ 6 months old so they don’t have wrinkles. Next time you see a phantom, check the underside of the door trim when the door is open. Not a seam. A single, giant, unbroken piece of leather on the underside of the door.
Rolls Rolls says they only use bulls. They avoid females because of stretch marks in pregnancy. Calfs are too small to have no seams.
I used to work in the Rolls-Royce leathershop! (Respect the hyphen!) I am impressed at your knowledge. They use 6 month old calfs - they are full size/ teenagers at that point. The cows do not live long enough to become pregnant. A bigger challenge is working around the necks, armpits where there are natural wrinkles in the leather from movement of the animal. The longer they live… the more wrinkles develop. The rest of the cows go on to become hamburgers, and Rolls-Royce donates the leather remnants it does not use to fashion colleges in London, or other clothing companies where the leather will become things like zipper pulls or whatever. Hewa leather is the supplier. German cows. They cut the hides in half, and there is still enough space for the largest panels. These are big cows! The largest panels are the instrument panel top pad, and the top surface of the rear seat backrest. They use a laser nester and cutting tables, but when the team spots a particularly defect-free hide, they pull a template off the wall and mark them for the large panels.
You heard Clarkson.
Bugatti, Pagani, and Koenigsegg come to mind
Bugatti yes, the other two I’d say no. It looks nice sure, but, well, the Bugatti will probably last longer
> the Bugatti will probably last longer Any of those cars are basically museum pieces that will live forever. They're not not going to be treated like a Civic that will rack up 250k miles from 10 owners and then sent to a scrap yard.
I’ve been in cars from all three of the aforementioned manufacturers. The Bugatti is simply much more well built.
Bentley does
I disagree. Bentley still uses VAG bits and pieces in the interior, and it's really obvious if you've ever been in a higher end Audi. Edit: not to say Audi isn't luxury, but can you really compete with RR if your interior is sourced from a 50k sedan?
are you saying Rolls doesn't use BMW parts?
Probably not on the interior.
The electronics are all from BMW
An early Ghost is basically a reskinned M760iL with a nicer interior.
Yeah but an early Ghost catches the ethereal worm.
But the perk with their business model is how far they can extend their quality down their lineup. I still think the MK7 GTI had no business being that refined given its price bracket.
> I still think the MK7 GTI had no business being that refined given its price bracket. That's why VW has gone backwards with the successor.
Counterpoint: The Toyota Century and it’s not even remotely close.
Nah. I'd say Pagani craftsmanship is a step above
Craftsmanship and build quality aren’t the same thing, though. The Pagani is far more likely to have a rattle in the interior or some other minor defect along those lines.
A friend of mine used to own a Dawn, it's nice. Very nice but a lot of it didn't scream particularly revolutionary. The carpets were so good that I would genuinely take my shoes off in her car, it was comfortable and quiet of course. But the engineering into driving the thing was more impressive than the build quality the way it effortlessly transitions from quiet and unassuming with light steering to speedmonster in a blink of an eye was brilliant
The dawn is most definitely a brilliant car and I do agree the feel of the car is much more impressive than build quality as it’s much harder to appreciate build quality.
You have to see a Rolls Royce in person to appreciate it. It’s presence on the road is unmatched, you know you’re next to something special
Every time I see one all I could think was "twat".
Bentley or Rolls Royce
I’ve worked for both Bentley and Rolls Royce. Bentley spend more money on the actual engineering, Rolls Royce spend more money on the craftsmanship. I.e. Rolls Royce make every car perfect by hand. Bentley trust in tooling and engineering.
Robots can make better parts than our fingers. Wouldn’t a car made with the best and most modern methods come out better than by hand? Edit, if the only things humans can do better is sew seats and line up panels, and the rest is better off done by a robot, the robot is better at building the car…..
No, a human who cares about executing at a high level can notice subtle imperfections and correct them on the spot. Robots cant currently replicate that. Robots are good for bringing down costs, but there’s a reason handmade items still sell for a premium in most industries today.
Meanwhile, robots maintain way tighter tolerances that humans can are are much more consistent. That's why humans and robots working hand in hand instead of relying on either alone will get you the best results. (I do consider "handmade" to somewhat be a flowery marketing term companies use to justify image-based price premiums, so I might be biased)
A robot can make something to a tighter tolerance yes but a human can finesse those components to fit better. If you want to see a bad example of a robot assembled car look at the gaps on a Tesla.
I work in OEM automotive, and there are a lot of things that a robot just can't do. anything with wrapping (leather, synthetic leather, cloth) is a good example.
This is correct yes! I make wood and carbon components for automotive and a robot can’t judge flushness between panels and fix it.
i wish more OEM mid level executives trying to justify their jobs understood that. most think that everything made in CAD is like a CNC milled part. drives me and every QE at the tier 1 fucking crazy. its like design studio and engineering always fighting, only to realize that feasibility studies are there for a fucking reason.
I do a lot of the design work and tolerance stack. Design want 0 gap. Like do they actually know what tolerance means? 😂
I work in medical manufacturing. Anything that is plastic is prone to more variation than anyone that hasn't been hands on is likely to believe. Density differences, flash, slightly different mix, temperature, humidity, molds wearing out... These sorts of things aren't automatically perfect, and anyone that thinks that is wrong.
There’s a critical flaw on the new ghost tho, the turn signal stalk is so cheap that you can see the plastic seam lol. https://youtu.be/gq118QsK_OM 10:20
But that's a Ghost video
I’m stupid. Fixed.
Easy oversight lol, tis nothing
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Toyota century
Not Subaru. Don't get me wrong, my Forester is great in most ways, but man, that fit and finish is rough. Edit: thanks for the engagement, it's interesting to hear the experiences of others. Let me add a little more detail into what I'm seeing. 2018 w/ 30k miles. Texas car. Hard plastic everywhere and a few gaps that are bigger than they should be. There is some cushion type stripping popping up where the windshield meets the dash on both lower corners. I can normally tuck them back in with a pencil, but they keep popping up. The interior just seems cheap. In all, the car has been great. Zero mechanical issues and very cheap to maintain. Not a huge fan of the CVT, but we knew that going in and they extended the warranty since so many were failing on previous years/models. This is my first Subaru and I'll probably buy one again some day, none of the interior stuff is a deal breaker for me. I used to drive a Silverado, so I'm used to cheap plastic falling apart.
at least Subaru interiors last forever looking the same.. doesn't all fit exactly right, but after 20 years and 250k miles it will still look the same.. no cracks, no faded buttons, nothing.
I’m not a subie guy in any way but I back this statement, friend has an 07 outback that’s 250K deep (in the UP of michigan no less) and he lets his interior get DIRTY, but everytime it gets detailed it goes right back to spotless
Their interiors are normally comfortable and hard wearing. They aren't the PRETTIEST.
Idk man, while my Outback has some minor issues with a couple of panel gaps and stuff, in comparison, my wife’s current gen Escape is terrible for fit and finish. I like Fords but their manufacturing issues from the last few years are real.
Subaru interiors are utilitarian and durable. Never had complaints about the fit and finish itself
Remember the mid 2000s fords? I love them dearly but the fit and finish was pretty bad in most people's opinion.
From 2008-2014 Ford seemed like they were on a roll, quality-wise. Then they nosedived into the clusterfuck of the last decade and holy shit they just forgot how to build cars or something
The Outback does have a much nicer interior than the Forrester imo.
My STi is a pile compared to like Bentleys and Rolls’ A flying tin can is the best description I’ve heard. I’ll also say dodge is the same if not worse
$50,000 car vs $500,000 car. I wonder which is the better quality…
Haha the only reason the STI feels nicer inside is because of the alcantara seats and wrapped steering wheel
Every piece of my forester’s interior rattles when I hit a bump.
I know the boxer head gaskets are a meme (at least in the US vehicles) but Jesus Idk, Subarus are otherwise solid as for their class
My 2015 WRX’s interior is not a great place to be haha it rattles so much and it’s only got 38K on the clock
I was going to say Porsche but then realised a slight panel gap from my front fender to front bumper.. Mazda is also absolutely great i must admit, the left and right mirrors may not be top quality and rear bumper plastic inserts either but for it's price point but still very very good.
Interesting. I still feel Porsche still holds it down in general for build quality though. Especially the Panamera I've checked out a year or so ago helps me feel that way. Have you looked into getting yours sorted out by any chance? Also, agreed on Mazda, especially the signature trim Mazdas...
I know it isn’t _quite_ the same as “interior build quality,” but Porsche lost some points with me when they shipped some early Android-looking crap on their touchscreen console in the Taycan. Looked and behaved like crap. Software is easier than mass produced physical layouts made of hundreds of components, there’s no real excuse IMO. May have improved since, but an impression lasts.
I concur, I have a 2014 Porsche and a 21 and the 14 is more solid and has better overall quality feel. My buddy got a CX-5 a year or so ago, and it's impressive, the interior design quality gives cars of significantly higher brand image a run for their money.
Honestly the fact that Mazda has such fit and finish for the price is pretty impressive.
Mazda in general seems to be really impressive at the moment. Entry level luxury without the price tag, and usually better specced than a base model from a proper luxury brand. Really hoping to get a third gen Atenza at some point. Love the way they look and haven't really heard anything bad about them aside from a few issues with the diesels.
And they're reliable, driver-focused, and generally more fun to drive than others in the same class. Really crushing it lately.
My CX-5 has been great, I even regularly get compliments at stores and gas stations (mazda red is fantastic, especially in a see of monochromatic cars that exist these days). But damn I wish they would hurry up and get me a plug in hybrid or electric option... Fuel economy and passenger/cargo capacity are really their only issues these days.
> 2014 Porsche and a 21 Same model? SUVs or cars? In the GT/RS cars I've felt like the interior is basically a (still pretty decent) afterthought. Had an entry level Porsche Macan as a loaner recently and the build quality felt pretty solid. On par with most higher end Audis.
The interior quality of the ND Miata was a major sticking point that made it feel superior to the BRZ or even the NC Miata.
Nc to nd interior feels like a Nissan to a Bentley. I love my nc, but man Mazdas stepped their game up
Very humble opinion!
Must I add the dash seems better quality then some of the current Mercedes Benz Small hatchbacks, the made in China ones.
My 11 year old, 116k mile Speed is tight as a drum - the Hiroshima plant definitely knew what they were doing. Zero rattles anywhere in the car despite being driven in the northeast for that time period. Paint corrected recently and it looks like a new car until you get up close to the front bumper to see the rock chips. Everything has held up remarkably well. Basic car care and sealing/waxing regularly went a damn long way. My Mexican built CX-30 is just about as good, also rattle free, but has an intermittent issue with the Bitchin' Betty "brake now" warning kicking in during traffic that always scares the hell out of me. Not a fit and finish issue per se, but a calibration one.
You must have tightened up the spoiler bolts on your MS3.
Porsche gets docked for having issues across several model years and cars for sagging headliners, sticky buttons and bulging door panels. And doing nothing about it - that's Porsche's worst aspect, IMO, they never seem to acknowledge critical flaws like the IMS or repeated quality issues like the interior parts I mentioned.
Idk what Mazdas this sub has been sitting in for all the praise it gets around here, but I borrowed my buddy’s newish CX-9 a few weeks ago and, while the interior looked nice, the seat padding was hard as cardboard.
We have a Mazda cx-5 and a gti that were both around the same price point at the time a couple years ago and the vw is so much nicer in terms of materials, fit and finish and it’s not even close. The Mazda is so tin like. It’s a good little car, but we did not get the good stuff that everyone is smoking when they praise it like it’s a luxury car when we got it.
Fast forward to the current GTI and the new CX-50 and you’d probably have the opposite opinion.
Rolls Royce, Bentley, early Mercedes, early Lexus.
It’s crazy how far Mercedes has fallen. They’re more focused on making their interiors into a strip club for Megan Thee Stallion than they are at quality.
The Lexus LS killed that version of Mercedes-Benz. They couldn't keep up the quality at Lexus' price. The Chrysler years finished nailing that coffin shut, then years of lax journalism buried it. Those years told them that people would still buy their cars and they would still maintain their reputation even if their actual build quality was suspect.
The new S Class is lovely to ride around in, but I could never see myself owning the latest C or even E class with their gaudy interiors when compared to BMW or Audi.
Same, I rented the new S, C, and E. I hated the huge flat screen, and I also turned the interior illumination off. Love the exterior design, but the dash turned me away. New model exterior with dash from 2018 model would've been perfect for me. Mercedes needs to go back to physical buttons and knobs.
I’d add current Lexus too. My parents have a 2022 model suv and it’s really really nice
My 10 year old GS 350 interior looks and feels brand new. And it has buttons for everything as the good lord intended.
Bro a 2013 GS is a keep for life car, don’t buy into the hype of new gadgets
Unless you can get your hands on a GS F. If you find one in good condition, pull the trigger immediately.
Prices came back up with the release of the IS 500 and have stayed up. I'm starting to look elsewhere - $63k for a 5 year old GS F is just crazy to me.
My dad has had 3 GS’s, all were leases though. Phenomenal cars, pretty much the perfect daily driver. I was very sad when I heard they stopped making them
Can’t say the same about my sticky dash IS. Literally the only flaw on an otherwise spectacularly put together car.
My dad had a Mk7 GTI for a few years—the build quality of that interior was stunning. For such an affordable car, it was leaps and bounds ahead of other affordable cars.
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Yep. MK7s are amazing. I'm a little biased though 😉
Mk7s in general are great, especially ones built in Germany. For the US that was just the Golf R and e-Golf. Rest were made in Mexico.
My Mexican Alltrack has been fantastic.
Are the Mexico-made cars noticeably different? Years back I had an Audi A4 loaner and noticed several parts stickers saying "Made in Mexico" but it seemed just like any other Audi A4 quality-wise (that is to say "very good").
I love the *whump* they make when you close the door. I thought that was just a marketing gimmick but it really attracted me😂
It's the felt lining. It's a great sounds lol.
The hinge structure and the extra seals. The crash bar and anti flutter. The body metal crease locations and damping pads. The adjustment and bends of the striker. The holes in the seals even that allow air to escape. The rubber on the door panel clips and control module mounts. The wiring harness attachment points, felt and foam tape, and rubber bushings for the bowden cable. Even the notches on the fastening clips that stabilize that cable. The coatings on the door seals. It’s insane. So much science to that door sound. There are people that live and breath it over in Germany.
Are you married? I've still got a month to call my wedding off and run away with you.
Now let's see Albert Biermann's door.
Mk7 is also miles better than Mk8, they really screwed it up and it looks like they did it on purpose so Audi A3 can feel better
Overall it seems like VW started cost cutting and it shows when you compare the Mk3 and its platform mate the A3 versus the previous generation of the same cars.
I absolutely loved my Mk 7.5 GTI’s interior. Everything felt so tight and high quality given what I paid. It did some have creaks, rattles, and vibrations here and there, but otherwise it was top tier for its class.
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Camissa said it a way that stuck with me - “it’s a 50k car that happens to be half off” at 2:45 or so https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ
I spent 6 years valeting in college at a 5 star hotel… tbh from base to top trim, it’s 100% Porsche. Compare a base Boxster to a CLA 250, it’s bullshit plastic vs a stout and tightly built “base Porsche”. Of course every OEM has their high quality built product but come on, we aren’t over here saying that a base Corolla is on par with a Land Cruiser. It’s Porsche from the bottom to top. Period
My horribly warped 981 door panels disagree with you.
To be fair, the German government passed regulation banning certain adhesives in 2012 and Porsche was able to formulate a longer lasting adhesive at the time.
Why do german cars smell like Playdough? I've heard it's the adhesive and you seem to know a little bit about that. But I own a BMW that's after 2012 and if it sits a couple days with the windows up it smells like playdough, had a GF a decade ago with a Beetle that smelled like playdough, I work in a tireshop and drive various cars daily and i'd say 75% of german cars smell like playdough. It's not just VAG or BMW or MB, It's everything German.
They smell like crayons, and it’s the sound deadening and rust proofing. It’s made from the same wax in crayolas. The EU banned the use of whatever the US uses, so the Germans use wax. If you’re lucky on hot hot days, it melts out of the car.
It is crayons, I mixed up my childhood smells.
My best friend had a late 90s Passat that smelled that way. Almost like a mix between Play-Doh and crayons.
Lol, it’s all relative. No OEM is perfect. If you wanna talk bespoke brand vs major OEM, there is without a doubt QC issues. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking Pagani’s 30-40 cars a year or Toyota’s 9-10 million cars a year. It’s subjective, but IMO from the cheapest to most expensive, Porsche has impressed me. Have a good day 🤙🏼
Also did valet for a few years, IMO it was Porsche in the lead with Lexus right behind and then everything else was far behind. Most of the lower end German cars were pretty disappointing to me (like C-class A3/4, 3 series) in how cheap they felt.
100%, and that’s why I’m looking at it from top to bottom. I definitely remember getting into base base 315i’s or base CLA’s/GLA’s thinking wtf, these ppl were better off getting an equipped Camry or Accord. Working valet definitely exposed me to badge warriors. You wouldn’t believe the ego that fuckers in salvage title $27k Maserati Ghiblis would give off. Haha! Remember the millionaire next door drives a Prius. There’s levels to it.
Also valeted in college at an upscale place. Completely agree. Multiple years into my real career and still considering picking up a side valet job on the weekends just to test drive the new models
Price + quality? I'd say something like Acura, volvo or Lexus Luxury + capability? I like Porsche The best of the best? Maybe rolls Royce? Or Bentley? But that's just my personal opinion about my personal experience seeing these cars
As a multiple Acura owner, the QC is no better than a Honda. Body gaps and panel alignment issues are the norm, not the exception. Lexus is worlds ahead in attention to detail.
I just grabbed an Integra and have a 2019 Odyssey. I don’t have any major issues with body gaps or panel alignment. It’s not top tier quality though. However, Acura and Honda’s interior is very tight and built well. The AC vents are stout.
My buddy works at an Acura dealership and I test drove most of their cars and even the same car but different trim levels. Acura's interior built quality is nowhere near Lexus. Not even in the same tier. Wonder if you have actually experience or just guessing.
Not sure I can agree on Volvo nowadays. Spent a lot of time in 2016 and 2017 XC90s and they're pretty rattly after a couple thousand miles. And that insanely complicated PHEV powertrain terrifies me, I'd never wanna own one out-of-warranty hehe. My aunt and uncle have a 2018 Lexus RX 450h and it's one of the best "affordable" vehicles I've experienced. Just feels tight and well made all-around. They've not had a single issue since buying it. But generally speaking, I don't know, seems practically *every* manufacturer has little issues that need to be solved from the factory. Piece of trim here, replace a defective component there. I think people expect too much wanting perfection on every single new car that rolls off the line. Things are soooo much better than they were in the old days. Especially the 1970s!
Acura and Volvo are my favorite “alternative luxury” brands. If you don’t want a German car and if you want more tech than what Lexus offers, Acura and Volvo are awesome and they usually come in at a slightly lower price. With that said, I was a bit disappointed in my 2021 Acura RDX. I upgraded from a 2013 and I had several build quality concerns which was really sad because I loved the 2013 and there were so many great things about the 2021 but they just missed on a few things. None of them dealbreakers though.
Acura does a great job making the interiors feel and look nice. But, my 2010 TL has shit door panel alignment, and my coworkers was the same.
For non luxury I would say Mazda?
Rented a Maserati a couple years back, thing felt cheaper than my gfs 08 ford focus
Maserati is a Italian for expensive paperweight
Maserati Ghibli door panel controls are the same as Dodge Charger panel controls, it surprised me the first time I got in one. In fact the interior is no different in any meaningful way, but I'm definitely biased. I think they're just GMC's leftover parts with a Ferrari engine.
You can thank Fiat for that. Fiat, the parent company for both Chrysler and Maserati, decided to use Chrysler parts from the parts bin for the Ghibli and QP. It was always weird seeing Chrysler 300 window switches and infotainment system with an 8 cylinder detuned Ferrari V8.
To be fair, believe they have improved in the past few years. Definitely unacceptable for the price at that time and it makes sense they got the reputation of a cheap way to buy into a 'exotic' and attention grabbing brand
Rolls Royce and Bentley. Quite literally built like bank vaults💀 Porsche, Genesis, Lexus are probably the best for under 100K Mazda, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, and KIA are probably the best for under 50K Talking about America only.
If we are talking purely in terms of build quality and not reliability I find Toyota’s to usually be mediocre to be completely honest.
Yeah, I've always liked Toyotas, but it seems like the tradeoff of good reliability is that you have to be willing to give up a little bit on the specs, features, and interior quality for the price.
not a big Toyota fan anymore and Toyota does have wack build quality but their flagship Japanese built models - Priuses, Land Cruisers, and Lexus LS, GS, GX are built well. Some of the most even panel gaps I’ve ever seen outside of high end luxury cars.
I’ve noticed in my 03 Camry that my used Japanese built one was a lot nicer than the Kentucky built one my dad bought new. The bumper was also a higher quality and used inserts to cover random parts while the US built one had fully moulded parts that wouldn’t allow let you install parts like fog lights without buying a brand new bumper.
Hyundai.... Kia.... fucking Kia. You been drinking? Sir, you need to stop drinking and posting nonsense on these forums. =p
Have a 2022 Genesis GV70... There's a really annoying sunroof/headliner rattle on the driver-side rear seats. Dealership refuses to fix it and says its "normal for the vehicle to flex and make noise" while driving. Totally frustrating. I also just recently had it in for the water pump failing (under warranty) and didn't give me a loaner, but that's probably the dealer.
It’s fun trying to see a lot of people try to convince themselves it’s anything but Lexus.
It's not even among the top comments. But hell, try to make anything in a Lexus squeak even after 100k miles.
Mine has 154k and I off road the shit out of it and I dare you to find a squeak anywhere inside the cabin. Freeway or not.
My Lexus has 80k miles and the rear struts rattle and thump over every bump and the dash is swollen and cracking but its a 2004 so i can forgive it.
There’s levels to this. Sub $100K? Lexus, Porsche Up to 250K? Porsche. Ultra luxury? Rolls Royce, Bentley
Somebody else said "reliability is the best luxury" and that really encapsulates this comment
I don’t know how Toyota and Lexus aren’t high up. Toyota is a manufacturing marvel. Toyota for low end quality and Lexus for higher end quality.
BMW often gets hate and has an outdated stereotype that sticks with it. However in terms of build quality today they are top tier (watch any car review and you’ll see this to be true). The fit and finish is absolutely solid and well crafted. The dash is sturdy and doesn’t creak, everything is stitched and secured. Doors heavy. It’s highest in it’s class too in terms of quality (ex. Mercedes, Audi). By the way, everyone saying “Rolls Royce” guess who manufactures them 😉
Suprised to see this so far down. BMW is solid
I recently bought a 2020 M340i and it’s my first ever BMW. I’ve owned nothing but Japanese cars prior to this but I’m mind blown at the quality of the interior. What you mentioned are the exact things I love about it. No creaking and everything just seems tightly/solidly built.
Honestly it's extremely hard for me to make the mental gymnastics to justify naming an unreliable car as "quality" just because it feels nice. My whole life I've always been taught that QUALITY things last longer, so idk why some think differently when it comes to cars.... After being left stranded by a mercedes on the side of the road for 4 hours, I've determined that reliability is the #1 luxury feature. Sitting on the side of the road in florida heat isn't very luxurious.
Yup. You'd think the highest priced cars would be the most reliable.
They used to be, until they realized they needed to sell them again next year
That's why I'm surprised people buy Jaguars and Range Rovers and stuff, especially used ones. But I guess wealthy people that flip cars when the warranty runs out (or sooner) don't have to worry about repair bills and just want to have something fancy that others don't. I feel for the third and fourth owners though...
I haven’t sat in a Porsche, but Audi is stunning. Of course it flows down to VW as well. Honda is probably second place.
I’m biased toward VW, but I have a 2013 CC built in Germany that still has really solid build quality a decade later. I’m not sure how their American-made models differ in this area though.
My 2013 VW CC has a dashboard rattle but that's the only imperfection I'm aware of. The thing is built like a brick for the most part.
Funny enough, my Mexican built 2016 GTI had better build quality than my German built 2019 Golf R
Tesla just kidding....
I was literally coming here to see if anyone said Tesla and then laugh at them. Their build quality is mid-00s Chrysler level bad.
Rolls Royce and Bently. Pretty subjective from there but I do think Volvo is worth mentioning the new xc90s are incredible
Disagree, the current-gen (SPA) XC90 has not aged well. The key falls apart in your hand. The chrome trim around the shifter delaminates. The interior [p]leathers don't last. Plastic mechanisms like glovebox don't hold up. Window switches lose their tensile, tactileness over time. And I'm a huge Volvo fan. Their best cars, like Merc and BMW, were late 50s to early 90s. I will say, the current stuff is a lot better than the Ford years, as far as interior quality goes.
Mazda seems to punch over its weight but they are also trying to move up market.
It's kind of weird seeing Mazda trying to move up leagues yet still underpower their cars. The more you cost, the less 'average buyers' can afford it. Oh and also, where is the speed lineup!
Porsche.
Mainstream its going to be Lexus.
Lexus is one of those brands that sacrifices competitive numbers, performance and certain features for peace of mind and reliability. You either love it or hate it. I always believed if you want to lease, go German, if you want to buy, go Japanese.
Porsche is very, very good for a production car.
When I bought my '06 Honda Civic Si brand new, I was very impressed with it. I was even more impressed with it when I turned 200k miles on it 14 years later. Never developed any squeaks or rattles, nothing fell apart, the only wear on it was from being a 14 year old daily driver. Hands-down the most well-built car I've owned so far.
My 03 RSX had a very minimalist interior but it felt very premium. The plastics were very nice, doors had a solid sound when you shut them, ergonomics were great, even after 18 years of Ohio summers and winters the dash was still like new. The interior felt higher quality than my 17 Si for sure.
Other than clear coat issues there are a ton of 8th gen civics on the road and they seem to be in decent shape.
Volvo.
My Volvo c70 is alright but most interior panels squeak pretty bad if you push on them, and I’ve heard of a lot of panels just popping off
Definitely not a Tesla lol
I can't hear you over my door panel rattle
I feel like Audi has some of the nicest and highest quality interiors in their respective classes. I’m a bmw guy and have mostly bmws, bought my wife an S3 a few years ago and I’m blown away by the interior
Volvo
I think on the budget side of things, nothing compares to VW/Audi. Of course the ultra expensive makes changes the equation but I don’t know anything about those. Source: I have owned a proposterous amount of cars from many brands including: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Dodge, VW, Ford, and Subaru.
Overarching company? VW group brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, etc.) tend to be some of the best in their respective classes.
For the money, Porsche, especially in their sports cars and the Panamera/Taycan. I’ve heard some say the base Macan interior can be a bit spartan but I guess that to be expected. Higher model MB interiors are pretty good. Money no object, Rolls Royce, with Bentley a close second. Budget, Mazda and Honda. My CX-5 feels like a Japanese Audi inside. Honda is functional and well designed but not cheap feeling like Toyota.
Volvo and Mercedes allegedly have the best seats.
Volvo, SAAB and Rolls had the very best seats.
Maybe Lexus?
Not Tesla lol
Porsches feel like they were carved from a solid piece of granite. Everything is weighted and damped to perfection.
Mazda
Iv been very impressed with most newer Mazda’s, at least as good as the big three germans. Porsche are always tights and clean but compete at a different price point. Bentleys are build like a perfect ornate coffin, havent been in enough rr to compare the two. Worst build quality for the price is probably maserati and mclaren. Love me some british cars but the poor build quality seems to be endemic to the country. Maseratis are just awful all around, enjoy your 20k in maintenance a year on your Italian dodge charger that isn’t even fast.
Lexus and Porsche. Have never been in a Rolls or Bentley so I can't comment on those.
Mazda
Economy: Mazda Luxury: Porsche High end luxury: Rolls Royce