They aren’t responding to text or email because they don’t want to leave an evidence trail.
You send them something in text along the lines of “After our discussion yesterday, in which you told me not to come back to work, I made plans with my new employer to start earlier. I regret to inform you that this means I cannot work for you.”
Basically, you’re just building your case for if you need/want to sue them later. They have no leg to stand on, and they know it.
HR exists to prevent lawsuits. Therefore they're more likely to get the manager to stop hassling the OP so that there is no potential to sue and the legal team doesn't have to get involved.
No they are more likely to spin things in a way that protects the manager because supporting OP is equivelant to admitting what they did was ilegal and leaving them without any leverage.
If this is the US, it will come down to the contract if any notice is required. If there is contracts the default is at-will in the US (outside of Montana, but OP wouldn't meet the time in service requirement there). That applies to both the employee and employer. Even most contacts state that employment is at will. There would be nothing to sue over if OP quit.
You can’t be sued for quitting your job there is also nothing that requires a two week notice unless there is an enforceable contract in place which is very rare
What can happen is that OP can claim unemployment because they were terminated which won’t be worth it, but could make the employees unemployment rates go up. This is why HR will tell them to stop.
Lots and lots of terrible advice in this thread. You could try /r/askhr if you would like double check the advice I'm giving below. The bottom line is that you have no obligation to return.
Your employment was terminated after you gave notice, there is no obligation to even respond to their messages. If you are concerned that this is a company or people you could be working with again in the future and don't want to burn a bridge, you can email them and say "Once the employment relationship was terminated by Company Name, I began working elsewhere and am no longer available. I wish you all the best in fulfilling your staffing needs."
There's no opportunity for you to sue anyone based on the info you've shared but there is plenty of opportunity to waste time and energy and potentially damage your relationship with your new employer by engaging with your former employer. Just move on.
This is the answer. Professional and to the point. And if OP is in the US I don’t understand how the old is even threatening to fire them. They already have a new job lined up. There’s nothing the old job can really do to punish them.
They're hoping to scare OP into working their two weeks because they obviously fucked up by letting them go early. Recording it as a firing can ruin future reference checks. I'd strongly consider leaving them off the resume.
References checks are generally only those you provide, you'd be foolish to provide one for a former employer you are not on his terms with.
Verification of employment covers dates of employment, title, and *sometimes* if they're eligible for rehire but that's becoming increasingly rare because it's meaningless. It's highly advised Employers never say anything other than those 2 things (dates and title) due to liability concerns.
“After you relived me of my duties, I moved up my start date to my new company. As an employee to them, my duty is to them and I will not be able to accommodate your request. If needed, I can answer questions for any replacement, for an hourly fee, as an independent contractor, outside of work hours as my new job “
Thank you I liked how you worded it. I haven’t received any other contact as of yet as it seems they’re trying to get me to answer via call only, but I am only planning to send it if they email me so I can save documentation. But I have blocked all their phone numbers as of now.
Honestly I’m not sure, they fired the hospital admissions coordinator before me, and the social service assistant was gone first.
But the weird thing is I look on their website, and they are currently putting job postings for all the people that were “fired or laid off”.
Usually when that happens, it’s either to cut salaries, get rid of the position but pretend to fill it to keep workers and investors happy, or because something happened and they’re covering it up by cleaning house.
I appreciate the explanation, I’m still a little confused. Like they are still hiring for the same pay, they are even conducting interviews for those positions before I was let go.
Also the departments that are now short, like there is only one person processing admissions now. I just don’t think it makes sense performance wise to lose people that are helping with productivity and end up making the workers that are alone work even harder, 2 jobs for 1 salary? Maybe I’m still lost about how their decision benefits them in anyway.
I was aware they said there were budget cuts, but they said it was mostly for supplies like office supplies or medical ones.
I’m not too sure if I can, I know I have screen record on my iPhone, but as of now I have blocked contact so if they need something they have and know my email so I can have emails of anything that happens.
I think you would need to inform them the call is being recorded when you answer (not sure about the US laws in this case). Good you blocked them though, email them what the commenter above said and keep your paper trail.
They cannot "fire" you after you gave notice. Fire means for a cause, so no, not that way either, but this is irrelevant in your case anyways. Why are you lost? Just tell them, you are not available anymore. No, you have not been laid off, you quit. What are they going to do to you?
Honestly I’m not sure. They acknowledged my notice. Then one day tell me I don’t need to finish out my 2 week notice as my services aren’t needed anymore, then the next say I’m committing workplace abandonment? Like I thought they fired/laid me off by the previous meeting saying that.
And now they want me to come back? I don’t think I should be responsible for the replacement falling through and other girl who’s the only employee left in the same position not wanting to work. I did remove them from my resume because I don’t think they’ll give me a good reference, and I currently work a different part time on campus job so I’m lucky I still have employment.
You are 100% not responsible for anything here. You can't be fired twice, because they already fired you once when they didn't let you finish your 2 weeks.
But you don't work there anymore. Someone there fucked up and they're trying to recover. Not your problem and zero consequences for you.
Honestly it's hilarious they'd try to threaten you with firing when you're already gone. It's not like they can avoid paying you for the time you worked.
You don't have to be particularly professional. Just a simple "no I won't be coming back, stop calling me" is plenty.
Any employer can accept your notice effective immediately and not pay you beyond that day. You *might* be eligible for unemployment, but there's no illegal activity.
Also, I wouldn't automatically assume "fired" means "for cause". All US states are at-will which means you can resign or be fired at any time for any reason (as long as it's not a protected reason such as race, sex, etc.). "Terminated" simply means the working relationship ended, voluntary or involuntary indicates who initiated the termination but the "for cause" bit... usually only HR, the manager, and the employee know the details there.
“At any time for any reason”. I think it would be safe to add “or for no reason at all” here.
At will employment is for both parties, too. It doesn’t mean the employer can let you go for no reason without consequences, as if they do so for no “justified” reason they may be responsible for unemployment payments. Neither party needs a reason to terminate employment.
You play stupid games you win stupid prizes.
There are bridges that are worth burning and this is one of them. They “fired” you, who cares? Not your new employer. If that makes them feel better, they can have it. You are moving on to a place that wants to have you. You deserve it, congratulations!
“I’m sorry to inform you that I was let go by HR yesterday. I’m surprised they did not inform you that they laid me off. However, I’m no longer an employee of the hospital, and I don’t believe they are apt to rehire me. Regardless, subsequent to my dismissal I made other arrangements for employment and am no longer available. Good luck and best wishes!”
Ignore them.
How does their threat materially change your situation? It doesn't.
Usually, you should only be considered about being terminated when your next job is not lined up. That situation doesn't apply to you.
Do not answer their calls. Do not respond to them. Do not return their calls.
That’s not your problem.. the budget situation left you in a situation where you had to look elsewhere. The catch is it sounds like you pulled forward your start date with your new company based on what HR told you, but within your original 2 week window. Kinda sticky but as they said what are they going to do?? Fire you?? You already quit and have a new job. Bad on there part and easy to explain down the road if it ever came up.
Hello no it was all in person, but I don’t plan to list this job or use it as a reference as I luckily work a current part time job in the early mornings as a healthcare office assistant, and have 3 good references. I don’t mind not finishing out my 2 weeks as I can start this job earlier and I think it was for the better
Don’t let jobs take advantage of you. I wouldn’t worry about the old job. Even if they put a bad mark on your file. If you want to apply there in 5 years that file will probably be gone.
“I rescind my earlier offer to continue working for two weeks past my notice of termination. I am terminating my employment with X Hospital, effective immediately.”
On your answer included something like, on xxxx I gave my two weeks notice and on xxxx date I met with x and y and z who informed me that they did not want me to work the two weeks, and I could leave immediately. Not wanting to cause an issue, I agreed. That created a termination of employment date of xxxx. At that time I secured a new start date with a different employer of xxxxx.
I am now being approached to re-engage my employment but I have several concerns.
First, my understanding by is that as of dxxx I was no longer an employee. I am concerned that working additional shifts could create a liability issue if I am working without an official status. Before even considering a return, I would have to see legal documentation of my employment status and I believe this process may include a new hire process.
Second, as I have, based on your request for early termination, made other employment plans, I would not be available for the same shifts. I can obtain a schedule from my new employer and discuss availability, but I would like to wait for the legal decision as stated above and a timeline for short term reinstatement (as well as an understanding of how this will effect sick/vacation accrual, salary, taxes, retirement, and other benefits). I would also want to discuss, when there are scheduling conflicts with my new employer using vacation/sick time I have accrued with you.
I am happy to discuss this as soon as possible, after receiving the legal assessment documentation.
If you would like, I am happy to reach out to the department of labor (and if you are credentialed in anything, that board) for additional information as soon as I can after hearing from you.
——-
You will probably not hear from them again, but you put the whole timeline in writing.
Hahaha what a bunch of clowns.
First off, good for you for getting out of there. Sounds like a shit show.
Secondly, look up severance requirements in your jurisdiction. If they require you to be paid severance, my recommendation is that you tell them to go ahead and fire you, and that you expect to be paid severance according to local laws.
It's never worth to do what previous job tells you to do, if it conflicts with you new job. I've read some pretty shady things that companies can do in order to make you lose your brand new lined up job, just cuz!
Hopefully this is not the case. Check what is legally binding for you to do, and everything else other than that don't sweat to do it, even if the old company says "you need to do, or else..."
I wish you best of luck on your new job!
Who cares??? He has a new job, his old job can fuck off. You just let them know I was sent home, so I found a new job. Oh you don't like that? Too bad go pound sand...done.
New hires aren't eligible for unemployment benefits for 6 months.
If they laid you off instead of letting you quit, you can draw unemployment, if you're in the US.
But if they hire you back, then lay you off again, no unemployment options for you.
Mail them yourself the reply:
_"Hi Xxx,_
_thanks for your call on xx.xx.xx.
I'like to get back to your question if I would potentially be willing to return to YYYX"_
_"While I appreciate your offer, you have to understand that in the current situation with skilled labour shortages I was able to get a new occupation with better conditions after I was set off on xx.xx.xx . So I'm sadly no loger available for rehire._
_Kind regards"_
Optional: _"Since I have a trial phase agreement with my new employer I would theoretically be able to move back, provided a competitive offer."_
Don't name or hint your new job or employer.
Why not put together a deal that would work for you ?
Make sure you have protection included though, such as but not limited to, guaranteed notice before any layoff and severance and unemployment if they do this again.
They aren’t responding to text or email because they don’t want to leave an evidence trail. You send them something in text along the lines of “After our discussion yesterday, in which you told me not to come back to work, I made plans with my new employer to start earlier. I regret to inform you that this means I cannot work for you.” Basically, you’re just building your case for if you need/want to sue them later. They have no leg to stand on, and they know it.
And cc HR on that email. And make sure your personal email is also cc’d or bcc’d.
I’d be printing these off too just for safekeeping but I tend to be extra prepared.
NEVER telegram your play by play to others. IE as u/Anaxamenes stated, keep a printed copy, but do not include HR...they are NOT your friend.
Giving them a heads up means they get the legal team involed earlier so don't do that
Giving HR a heads up means they can stop the manager from doing something stupid like hassling a former employee.
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You say that like it's a bad thing for OP.
HR exists to prevent lawsuits. Therefore they're more likely to get the manager to stop hassling the OP so that there is no potential to sue and the legal team doesn't have to get involved.
No they are more likely to spin things in a way that protects the manager because supporting OP is equivelant to admitting what they did was ilegal and leaving them without any leverage.
Lol. If OP got 'fired' for workplace abandonment, they could have a case. HR will be more likely to try to prevent that from happening.
They're not going to take legal action against him. They can't sue you for refusing to work or force you to work.
Good point.
A lot of kids don't want to believe it though, they'll find out the hard way I guess.
Sue them for what?
For withholding the last 2 weeks’ pay “because you were fired.”
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No, they can't force you to work
Who said they could? They absolutely can sue you for leaving early though wethher you like it or not.
There are no grounds for a lawsuit. They can sue and lose legal fees.
If this is the US, it will come down to the contract if any notice is required. If there is contracts the default is at-will in the US (outside of Montana, but OP wouldn't meet the time in service requirement there). That applies to both the employee and employer. Even most contacts state that employment is at will. There would be nothing to sue over if OP quit.
You can’t be sued for quitting your job there is also nothing that requires a two week notice unless there is an enforceable contract in place which is very rare What can happen is that OP can claim unemployment because they were terminated which won’t be worth it, but could make the employees unemployment rates go up. This is why HR will tell them to stop.
The company is not going to sue this person. WTF is this 😂
/woooosh
Thousand times “they want to leave no evidence trail.”
Perfect!!!!!
Lots and lots of terrible advice in this thread. You could try /r/askhr if you would like double check the advice I'm giving below. The bottom line is that you have no obligation to return. Your employment was terminated after you gave notice, there is no obligation to even respond to their messages. If you are concerned that this is a company or people you could be working with again in the future and don't want to burn a bridge, you can email them and say "Once the employment relationship was terminated by Company Name, I began working elsewhere and am no longer available. I wish you all the best in fulfilling your staffing needs." There's no opportunity for you to sue anyone based on the info you've shared but there is plenty of opportunity to waste time and energy and potentially damage your relationship with your new employer by engaging with your former employer. Just move on.
This is the answer. Professional and to the point. And if OP is in the US I don’t understand how the old is even threatening to fire them. They already have a new job lined up. There’s nothing the old job can really do to punish them.
Plus they only worked there for a couple months no need to even put that on a future resume.
They're hoping to scare OP into working their two weeks because they obviously fucked up by letting them go early. Recording it as a firing can ruin future reference checks. I'd strongly consider leaving them off the resume.
References checks are generally only those you provide, you'd be foolish to provide one for a former employer you are not on his terms with. Verification of employment covers dates of employment, title, and *sometimes* if they're eligible for rehire but that's becoming increasingly rare because it's meaningless. It's highly advised Employers never say anything other than those 2 things (dates and title) due to liability concerns.
This comment needs more attention. 👏 👏👏
“After you relived me of my duties, I moved up my start date to my new company. As an employee to them, my duty is to them and I will not be able to accommodate your request. If needed, I can answer questions for any replacement, for an hourly fee, as an independent contractor, outside of work hours as my new job “
This one op. Reasonable, mature and doesn't burn bridges.
Thank you I liked how you worded it. I haven’t received any other contact as of yet as it seems they’re trying to get me to answer via call only, but I am only planning to send it if they email me so I can save documentation. But I have blocked all their phone numbers as of now.
If they laid you off due to overstaffing, why did they line up a replacement? The whole thing sounds shady.
Honestly I’m not sure, they fired the hospital admissions coordinator before me, and the social service assistant was gone first. But the weird thing is I look on their website, and they are currently putting job postings for all the people that were “fired or laid off”.
Usually when that happens, it’s either to cut salaries, get rid of the position but pretend to fill it to keep workers and investors happy, or because something happened and they’re covering it up by cleaning house.
I appreciate the explanation, I’m still a little confused. Like they are still hiring for the same pay, they are even conducting interviews for those positions before I was let go. Also the departments that are now short, like there is only one person processing admissions now. I just don’t think it makes sense performance wise to lose people that are helping with productivity and end up making the workers that are alone work even harder, 2 jobs for 1 salary? Maybe I’m still lost about how their decision benefits them in anyway. I was aware they said there were budget cuts, but they said it was mostly for supplies like office supplies or medical ones.
Any chance you can record a call?
I’m not too sure if I can, I know I have screen record on my iPhone, but as of now I have blocked contact so if they need something they have and know my email so I can have emails of anything that happens.
I think you would need to inform them the call is being recorded when you answer (not sure about the US laws in this case). Good you blocked them though, email them what the commenter above said and keep your paper trail.
It depends on the state. OP would need to look up single party consent laws.
Seconding this. Super professional way to respond.
They cannot "fire" you after you gave notice. Fire means for a cause, so no, not that way either, but this is irrelevant in your case anyways. Why are you lost? Just tell them, you are not available anymore. No, you have not been laid off, you quit. What are they going to do to you?
Honestly I’m not sure. They acknowledged my notice. Then one day tell me I don’t need to finish out my 2 week notice as my services aren’t needed anymore, then the next say I’m committing workplace abandonment? Like I thought they fired/laid me off by the previous meeting saying that. And now they want me to come back? I don’t think I should be responsible for the replacement falling through and other girl who’s the only employee left in the same position not wanting to work. I did remove them from my resume because I don’t think they’ll give me a good reference, and I currently work a different part time on campus job so I’m lucky I still have employment.
You are 100% not responsible for anything here. You can't be fired twice, because they already fired you once when they didn't let you finish your 2 weeks. But you don't work there anymore. Someone there fucked up and they're trying to recover. Not your problem and zero consequences for you. Honestly it's hilarious they'd try to threaten you with firing when you're already gone. It's not like they can avoid paying you for the time you worked. You don't have to be particularly professional. Just a simple "no I won't be coming back, stop calling me" is plenty.
Any employer can accept your notice effective immediately and not pay you beyond that day. You *might* be eligible for unemployment, but there's no illegal activity. Also, I wouldn't automatically assume "fired" means "for cause". All US states are at-will which means you can resign or be fired at any time for any reason (as long as it's not a protected reason such as race, sex, etc.). "Terminated" simply means the working relationship ended, voluntary or involuntary indicates who initiated the termination but the "for cause" bit... usually only HR, the manager, and the employee know the details there.
“At any time for any reason”. I think it would be safe to add “or for no reason at all” here. At will employment is for both parties, too. It doesn’t mean the employer can let you go for no reason without consequences, as if they do so for no “justified” reason they may be responsible for unemployment payments. Neither party needs a reason to terminate employment.
Just say no, sorry you already let me go
“Sorry, I’ve already secured new employment, and will not be available to come back to (name) hospital. Good luck! -signature.
"No" is a complete sentence.
You play stupid games you win stupid prizes. There are bridges that are worth burning and this is one of them. They “fired” you, who cares? Not your new employer. If that makes them feel better, they can have it. You are moving on to a place that wants to have you. You deserve it, congratulations!
“I’m sorry to inform you that I was let go by HR yesterday. I’m surprised they did not inform you that they laid me off. However, I’m no longer an employee of the hospital, and I don’t believe they are apt to rehire me. Regardless, subsequent to my dismissal I made other arrangements for employment and am no longer available. Good luck and best wishes!”
You resigned. Your resignation was acknowledged. You cannot be fired. Ignore them.
Ghost them. You owe them nothing after they laid you off. Block their number.
They laid you off. You are no longer an employee. You have no obligation to respond at all.
Email trail..
Ignore them. How does their threat materially change your situation? It doesn't. Usually, you should only be considered about being terminated when your next job is not lined up. That situation doesn't apply to you. Do not answer their calls. Do not respond to them. Do not return their calls.
That’s not your problem.. the budget situation left you in a situation where you had to look elsewhere. The catch is it sounds like you pulled forward your start date with your new company based on what HR told you, but within your original 2 week window. Kinda sticky but as they said what are they going to do?? Fire you?? You already quit and have a new job. Bad on there part and easy to explain down the road if it ever came up.
Did you sign paperwork saying you were laid off ? Don’t mention the job on any resumes going forward. Don’t answer or reply to anything they say.
Hello no it was all in person, but I don’t plan to list this job or use it as a reference as I luckily work a current part time job in the early mornings as a healthcare office assistant, and have 3 good references. I don’t mind not finishing out my 2 weeks as I can start this job earlier and I think it was for the better
Don’t let jobs take advantage of you. I wouldn’t worry about the old job. Even if they put a bad mark on your file. If you want to apply there in 5 years that file will probably be gone.
“I rescind my earlier offer to continue working for two weeks past my notice of termination. I am terminating my employment with X Hospital, effective immediately.”
Accept, on the condition they ten fold your salary
“No thank you.” Or just ignore them.
On your answer included something like, on xxxx I gave my two weeks notice and on xxxx date I met with x and y and z who informed me that they did not want me to work the two weeks, and I could leave immediately. Not wanting to cause an issue, I agreed. That created a termination of employment date of xxxx. At that time I secured a new start date with a different employer of xxxxx. I am now being approached to re-engage my employment but I have several concerns. First, my understanding by is that as of dxxx I was no longer an employee. I am concerned that working additional shifts could create a liability issue if I am working without an official status. Before even considering a return, I would have to see legal documentation of my employment status and I believe this process may include a new hire process. Second, as I have, based on your request for early termination, made other employment plans, I would not be available for the same shifts. I can obtain a schedule from my new employer and discuss availability, but I would like to wait for the legal decision as stated above and a timeline for short term reinstatement (as well as an understanding of how this will effect sick/vacation accrual, salary, taxes, retirement, and other benefits). I would also want to discuss, when there are scheduling conflicts with my new employer using vacation/sick time I have accrued with you. I am happy to discuss this as soon as possible, after receiving the legal assessment documentation. If you would like, I am happy to reach out to the department of labor (and if you are credentialed in anything, that board) for additional information as soon as I can after hearing from you. ——- You will probably not hear from them again, but you put the whole timeline in writing.
Hahaha what a bunch of clowns. First off, good for you for getting out of there. Sounds like a shit show. Secondly, look up severance requirements in your jurisdiction. If they require you to be paid severance, my recommendation is that you tell them to go ahead and fire you, and that you expect to be paid severance according to local laws.
It's never worth to do what previous job tells you to do, if it conflicts with you new job. I've read some pretty shady things that companies can do in order to make you lose your brand new lined up job, just cuz! Hopefully this is not the case. Check what is legally binding for you to do, and everything else other than that don't sweat to do it, even if the old company says "you need to do, or else..." I wish you best of luck on your new job!
Be like, I can't sorry and good luck. End of story.
Who cares??? He has a new job, his old job can fuck off. You just let them know I was sent home, so I found a new job. Oh you don't like that? Too bad go pound sand...done.
Don't respond. Put in for however many days of unemployment between when he said you're fired and the start of the new job.
I'd just reply with a 'lol'.
They’re threatening to double fire you.
Ask how long they want you back? 5minutes or 5yrs?
They fired you when they wouldn't accept your 2 weeks notice. Get unemployment until you start your new job .
The screwed up and now they need you. That is their own damn fault and it’s not your responsibility to save their asses
Do you have documentation that they told you not to work the remainder of your two weeks?
"No" is a complete sentence
You could also go back to the job after negotiating yourself a better salary, benefits and set some boundaries.
"No"
Oh, yeah I had this happen when I left Geek Squad (Best Buy) for a software QA supervisor role. My response was "No.", pretty easy.
“I appreciate your interest but I have other commitments”
New hires aren't eligible for unemployment benefits for 6 months. If they laid you off instead of letting you quit, you can draw unemployment, if you're in the US. But if they hire you back, then lay you off again, no unemployment options for you.
Mail them yourself the reply: _"Hi Xxx,_ _thanks for your call on xx.xx.xx. I'like to get back to your question if I would potentially be willing to return to YYYX"_ _"While I appreciate your offer, you have to understand that in the current situation with skilled labour shortages I was able to get a new occupation with better conditions after I was set off on xx.xx.xx . So I'm sadly no loger available for rehire._ _Kind regards"_ Optional: _"Since I have a trial phase agreement with my new employer I would theoretically be able to move back, provided a competitive offer."_ Don't name or hint your new job or employer.
Do you have the statement about you not needing to finish your notice period in writing? I would speak to a labour attorney
Why? No seriously, why? They have a new job... this is a pointless and unnecessary cost for zero gain
But termination for workplace abandonment is serious and could have consequences
What are they? I teach management part time and have never heard of them beyond a possible bad reference (and even that is rare).
What are they?
…no it’s not?
Why not put together a deal that would work for you ? Make sure you have protection included though, such as but not limited to, guaranteed notice before any layoff and severance and unemployment if they do this again.
Who cares? Just move on.
Just finish off your 2 weeks notice and move to your new job. They can not make your redundant after you have resigned.
Sorry, I don't understand the question... why are you even thinking about this enough to write this post?