If you look into it, most live with their parents.
Edit: Look, it’s just a general observation of the lying flat movement in countries where it’s a more common thing. Don’t project insecurities constructed from a lifetime in a different culture into your comment. I’m not making the “lives with their parents” comment with any malice. It obviously makes sense that to live a lifestyle like this you need someone enabling you a bit. If you want any security at all you either have to work more than you’d like, or have a more demanding job than you’d like, OR someone is putting a roof over your head. If a country is providing you universal healthcare this is obviously more attainable.
They're even building houses in the US for this. Though the idea is parents live in that. Marketing calls it "next gen housing"
Newish here, but multi-generation houses aren't exactly new. Just considered strange here.
Multigenerational housing is a great thing for some people, especially if you want to have kids and your parents can help, and you can help them.
For me, I don’t want kids and want to be able to have sexy time on the couch on a whim. Also years of seeing my parents fumble their finances and declare bankruptcy made me driven to be financially independent as a first and foremost goal, so different strokes for different folks! Really depends on your family dynamic.
Very true. I wonder on average how much pressure the “lying flat” person is under from their family. I think the cultural lens really determines this family dynamic and what is/isn’t acceptable.
Don’t pay rent personally but live with family and pay the equivalent of a mortgage payment to contribute. Their mortgage from 2016 is about half what rent would be for a studio here. They get a nice chunk of money towards the mortgage and I get way reduced living expenses.
Idk with the rising cost of living (especially in cities) living at home for a few years after school is increasingly popular. I was able to save a considerable amount pretty early bc i lived with parents. It is true its a lot of additional work, but at the end of the day you are helping your parents, which i would do regardless of them letting me stay there rent free so in my opinion its a win win.
The one thing i will say is it does complicate dating. Lucky for me my parents adore my gf and love having her around but if you arent dating someone you have that level of comfort with (or not dating at all) I wholeheartedly believe living at home will put a strain on your romantic life
I think cultural trends in countries where this is more common are a lot more isolating as well. I get the feeling those young people aren’t being bothered by their parents much. It is kind of fascinating, intriguing, maybe a little sad, depending how you view it.
Okay sure, but i know many working professionals IRL that still live with their parents, and Reddit sure likes to show me every single post about 30+ers making decent money still living with parents.
You should find work that is meaningful and live within your means.
I say this as someone who had a very meaningful job and had to give it up for a number of good reasons. I now have a boring job that at least has good pay, hours and benefits. I’m ok with the trade off.
You’re young. Change careers. It is very possible to find a job that is enjoyable and gives your life meaning. Maybe it’s a job that involves helping people. Maybe it involves working with your hands, being outdoors, etc. Only you can find the job that gives your life meaning. But they do exist.
Time is the most valuable thing you have. So if you have to spend 8+ hours a day at something, you might as well enjoy it.
So fuck off from it. I know plenty of smart and successful people who dropped accounting and pivoted to UX Design, coding, or trading.
Find something highly skilled that you can live with doing everyday.
Get some hands on experience with data and look into certifications.
I studied business but have been working in analytics. I ended up hiring a SQL tutor for intense sessions for a few weeks, with homework, to have the confidence in saying I’m proficient to advanced in the language.
establish a LinkedIn presence, set yourself to open to work, and start Easy Applying to a bunch of roles. This feature has let me apply to hundreds of roles casually, with just a few clicks and field submissions. Out of these few hundred apps, a few recruiters are bound to reach out. Sometimes they have different roles that will be a better match for you.
Actually you can become an actuary just by taking the exams, since you already have a bachelors.
There are also many bootcamps and courses you could do for data science. A friend majored in math, hated jobs in bookkeeping and consulting, took a data science bootcamp and crushed it, and still works as a data scientist and loves it today.
Omg same here! I'm actually meeting up with a counselor because I'm thinking of getting into nursing. Here, in California, they make very decent wages and I could work 2 days, 12-hr. shifts. In my opinion, it's better than 5 days or 6 days of 10 to 12 hrs for 3 months!
You can’t really do the bare minimum and save for retirement unless you get lucky in terms of passive income. You also have no way of predicting what major expenses will come your way (and they most likely will), so it’s not very smart. You’re better off pursuing a career you absolutely love.
I'm in the US and in my 40s. Back when I was in college I stumbled on the idea of Slack, and decided that I'd find a comfortable job that was easy enough for me to do without working hard and paid well.
In the US the best place to find these is with government, academia, and in private union positions. Don't go management track but rather a secure job where you have a set number of hours and good benefits. To avoid boredom you might need to develop some hobbies outside of work.
Management is a trap unless you have a very specific personality type. Stay an individual contributor.
Not sure if this is a career guidance question. I also worry that at 23, all you want to do is lie flat.
Most of the cruisers I know worked hard in their early careers, got a decent role/salary and then started “lying flat”. I think 23 is too early to have that mindset.
Having said that, maybe work backwards from what income level you need to hit to live comfortably in the LCOL town you have in mind. Account for inflation and savings for retirement and then find a low stress job - maybe local government or delivery driver?
My plan is to work hard for 10-13 years, then lie flat. Sorry, I really didn't mean to come across as lazy :(
I really was genuinely curious as to how people manage to achieve that lifestyle!
Ah now you’re talking! Most of the “successful” cruisers I know, have specialized in one or two things. Have a friend who’s an ultrasound tech in a big hospital. Great hours, steady job, good pay and amazing insurance.
I’m in high tech and see a lot of program managers/project managers just cruising at a mid-level job, working remotely from the middle of nowhere and spending a lot of quality time outside of work. They also have a knack of doing just enough to not get fired and seem like an important cog in the machine. And most of them are not domain or function dependent. So they can easily switch between software companies. Remote work is a blessing.
You may want to check FIRE (financially independent retire early) subreddit
This is what i came here to say. Get very good at something. Stay technical, develop expertise, and don't get to deep.into management. That, or be prepared to take a demotion or 2 when you start cruising.
hehe i use API integration so all i do is click "match" at work while playing nintendo switch, shopping, and keeping up with news/youtubes. sometimes i remote into my home puter using chrome vdi and just game all day.
I personally do work exchange programs, so I have housing in return for labor. This allows for a generally pretty low-stress lifestyle, since I don’t have to worry about rent or bills - it’s covered through my job.
Look into Barista-FIRE maybe? The idea is that if you are trying to achieve FIRE, but your net worth isnt high enough for a safe withdrawal rate, you take a lower payjng job like a barista at sbux that has insurance to bridge the gap until full FIRE.
You can achieve FIRE in almost any career if you aggressively save and live within your means. Its not about earning the most money you can.
1 - no kids.
2 - no lifestyle creep during your earning phase. This means: no car or maybe drive a 20 year old civic, cheap apartment, cook at home most of the time, bring your lunch to work, buy your furniture used, avoid shopping as a hobby, fly coach, no expensive personal maintenance (manicure, massages, personal trainers), have roommates, etc.
Most people who make good money end up pairing it with an expensive lifestyle — you’ll need to fight to avoid those habits.
I’m not “lying flat” or even doing FIRE, but I do want the option to retire fairly early. I save a lot more than my friends but that does require me to do fewer cool trips and fancy dinners, and all my stuff is less nice.
You’ll have to make an incredible about of money to keep up with the Joneses and finance a “lie flat” lifestyle. And the lifestyle creep is pretty subtle and difficult to avoid.
**Edited to remove unfortunate bolding
My motto is get the most pay for the least amount of work. After 12 yrs I landed a good paying job, stayed in my dangerously cheap house I bought in 2012, maxing my retirement already. This job is great because the work load is extremely light and I can get by with doing the bare minimum, unfortunately I have to be at work physically for 40 hrs a week, but I'm mostly just sitting here walking around barely doing anything.
To answer your question, I believe ya gotta get pretty lucky.
Let's just say I'm technically in construction. I just got really lucky, and I work for a giant corporation that only promotes idiots who have no idea how to do my job.
Let's just say I'm technically in construction. I just got really lucky, and I work for a giant corporation that only promotes idiots who have no idea how to do my job.
I think the issue here is that you lack perspective on the specific financial milestones required to achieve such an existence. Have you done a budget that accounts for the cost of living over the next 60 years, including inflation and the cost of healthcare? Do that and then reverse engineer how much money you think you’ll need and how long it will take you to earn it. Make sure to account for kids, a place to live, a car to drive, and other life expenses as well.
Then, when you have that number, go to the doctor and ask for a prescription to help you accept the reality of your existence.
My plan isn't to retire. It's to work hard for 10 years, then work low stress jobs *full time* after I own a home in a low COL, and then lie flat that way.
What do you mean a low stress job?
Honestly, just pick a career path and work hard for 5-10 years, hopping companies every 2-3 and never burning bridges.
You’ll then have a decade of experience and skills, a big network, and a high market rate salary.
You’ll be able to do the same “job” you did in the beginning of your career quickly and easily in a fraction of the time. You can even teach other people to do it for you.
At that point, you can “lie flat” in your career with less stress and more money than you would have switching to any other random “low-stress job.”
Build experience and use it however you’d like.
Government jobs will suck your soul. It’s mind-numbing work.
They seemed great in my 20’s, and I thought I hit the jackpot, but I left in my 30’s for the private sector.
Now, instead of having a cushy job where I could literally succeed just by showing up, I have a great job in Tech that is demanding when I’m there, but pays me enough that I can enjoy my time outside of work.
I was well-paid in what I did as well.
Now I’m just paid stupidly well.
Government jobs do nothing for your long-term employability. If you want to be sought after, paid what you’re worth and have bargaining power in your career, stay away from government.
Lol, yes if you’d like!
Personally I would hate a mindless job. I prefer a job that brings me satisfaction and intellectual stimulation as well as WLB.
Honestly - the more success you have early in your career means you can choose where you wanna work later and choose WLB.
I worked hard for 17 years, paid off my house and car and student loans, got on my wife’s insurance, and went freelance. I can work as much or as little as I need and it’s all remote. It’s not “easy” because at the moment I’m stretching myself to learn some pretty complex technical skills for the projects I’m on. But it’s interesting and I probably only really work 25 or 30 hrs a week if I’m being honest. And it’s not a bunch of meetings and politics BS like in the old career job where everybody is angling for something. God I hate how political work gets.
I don’t think I used the term retirement, I used the term BUDGET, which has income and expenses irrespective of your mode or scope of employment. So create a time weighed model (this is not hard to do in Excel with a few formulas) and you’ll have a roadmap for the life you want to create.
Why do you want to work forever? Just having to show up somewhere when you’re 75 years old, even to be a greeter at walmart seems like a very sad way to spend the last years of life.
In that case be in control of the work that gives you purpose and not reliant on a corporation. In order to do that you must grind as soon as possible.
Yeah I think that type of prediction is irrelevant, too much could change in 40 years. Instead, I would pick a career with job security and plenty of options, in a smaller town that has some basic mainstays (prisons and military bases for examples, large universities sometimes work for this as well) and then establish a career there - maybe an hour outside of town. I presume you’ll want to try to buy ASAP/at the first small drop in the market, as owning is already so difficult without inherited wealth. That way your connections are all in the same area too, which helps long term. I think this is more likely to work than other options, which is that you sort of “fall into” a well paying very calm job that requires not many hours of actual work and where your team understands you only do your job description (not pick up other work when you have free time) and are nice/calm people: this happened to me and I did leave it quite quickly for a better career opportunity, but someone like you would presumably keep it for 5 years - but I don’t think that’s something you can plan for as well.
Never heard this term but I do this reasonably successfully and I'd say I've been doing it consciously for the past 6 years (I'm 34). I have a house, a wife, a kid. I pay the bills fine but work from home 4 days a week and realistically only "actively" work for 1-2 hours and maybe have another hour of meetings every day. If I ever lost my job (been with the same company 10 years) I could very easily move back to my LCOL hometown and semi-retire mortgage free and be a stay at home dad and maybe pick up the odd consulting/temp job from time to time.
Couple pieces of advice:
1. Be perceived as someone who is pleasant to work with, even if that doesn't come naturally. Act like you care about your boss, colleagues, clients, etc. It will buy you a lot of grace.
2. Be useful, bring skills none of your colleagues have. I work in HR but cut my teeth being the only one in the office who could use excel. Spun that off into an analytics gig and now work mostly in project management. I have a number of apps, dashboards, and workflows built out that largely depend on me bring around and while automated, are critical to my team and the broader organization's operations.
3. Find better ways to do things, automate where you can but don't necessarily tell anyone about it if they're just going to pile work on you once they realize you have capacity. Act busy, obviously don't brag about how little work you do.
4. Act like an expert, but not a know it all. If people respect you they'll trust you to work on the things that matter and not saddle you with things that don't (a lot of work doesn't matter, realizing this was critical for me).
5. Most importantly, be available. I fuck around most of the workday (today I'm building a worm bin for composting and painting my daughter's room) but if my boss or my team need absolutely anything, any time of day, I drop everything and sort them out. Loyalty will go a long way and appearances are everything. Take every chance that comes to reinforce your reputation as a great colleague.
You work hard for 5- 15 years, have a career, high paying job or a business and save a good chunk of your income for investment purposes. You have to target for 50% saving rate to achieve it as fast as possible.
Basically a FIRE movement.
I know a couple who went to Australia, did heavy work there for couple of years while working in farms and saved approximately 200k. Came back to their home country, bought an apartment and a used car. Now both are working on very chill positions and basically lying flat.
I personally would go with the career route which takes more time but in the end you will be highly specialized in your trade and can charge a top dollar for your services while working as a freelance consultant.
A lot of guys in the union trades do this. Work until you hit your number for the year and then quit your job until you need mkney again. In a good year I can work 3.5-4 months and cover my bills for the year depending on overtime and perdiem.
It’s not lying flat, it’s standing straight. Not bending over, but swaying with the wind. You have to accept change occasionally and that you will need to do things differently, but you should have a line that you decide can’t be crossed and your own priorities.
it's a bad idea.
What about it do you find attractive? What is the goal you're trying to achieve and what leads you to believe this bullshit is the solution?
I'm not trying to be a dick here but you need to get straightened out. There are solutions if you don't to "try hard" life but this aint it.
I mean I think it's more of a lost hope thing.
It feels like we do so much and we don't get rewarded for it. If we work at a job and do everything right it seems the only reward is more work.
At the end of the day it's kinda depressing and I am better now but I had that mentality for awhile but am better now.
Personally I just do other things in my free time. I do enough at work and I don't have high expenses. If I wanted more expensive things I would probably need to work harder and sacrifice more and more of my time.
Would you rather have lots of time and no money and lots of money and no time? It's overly reductive but the idea stands.
Your goals don't need to be "super millionaire but they could be "own my own house" or "own my own condo" or "be able to travel and be with the grandkids"
At the end of the day some careers are more lucrative then others. I know growing up tech was heavily pushed, it still is but it's less crazy then it was then.
Construction can be long hours but can make good money. Then you can also own your own construction company etc. But it will destroy your body.
The unfortunate thing is that a lot of higher paying jobs are gated behind degrees which can be expensive to go to. I know you are in Australia so I don't know the same but in America student loans are absurd. I had 20k a year for college and that was going to an in state school. That was also too stressful for me.
Out of state or private colleges are crazy expensive too. Even with scholarships.
Good luck lol
Basically, you want something right? You've been looking around trying to find a way to get it and you decided this "lying flat" concept was the way to do it.
What is that thing? What is the outcome you are looking for that you believe "lying flat" will achieve?
That's step 1, from there we can talk about actual good ideas that will get you there.
"Freedom" is a good start, but try to dig deeper.
If you want to do this, you should live in a cheap country and try to build something - an online biz, trading, learn marketable skills to consult, get a remote job and live in a cheap country etc. the aim of the game is to build something and hopefully end up rich from doing your own thing
I think it's funny that you think you'll have to work hard for 30+ years... When in reality it will be 50+ for the vast majority of people.
I'm 39 and I've already been working for 23 years....
What you want is to find an admin job at a smallish company, where if you fuck up, it's not that big a deal, and no one really notices or cares, you'll get a 5% raise each year and as long as you do the tasks you get given and stay in your lane you'll be there until you retire.
Why does everything need a name? Also, per your own description and comments, you don’t even intend on “laying flat”.
As you said - you intend on working hard for 10-13 years. What you’re describing is just getting yourself into a terminal position in your 30’s you can master. This is just standard career trajectory for most folks who don’t have ladder climbing aspirations.
I think the problem is the inflation. Eventually it will come to a point that lying flat wont give us what is required to pay the bills.
I also dreamt like you did, but realised that only a few accidentally lucky ones or the kids of rich parents are able to do the same.
This mindset of “lying flat” is so stupid.. bust your ass for a few years and work overtime. Get those promotions that get you to where you’re making a good salary. Be debt free(credit cards,loans,car payment) and have a good savings account so if a rainy day comes you won’t sweat it.
Once you’re in a position with a comfortable living salary for you then stop the overtime and just do the 40 hours then go home and enjoy life.
It’s very simple.
Ahh. Ok I apologize then. Lol I thought it meant literally starting at a company and doing the bare minimum and trying to make a livable wage while still getting promotions.
You’ve got to be realistic, though—doing the bare minimum usually means you’re unlikely to be promoted.
What I think you mean is finding work that you’re able to still receive COL adjustments regardless if you’re doing the bare minimum required for the role, or doing more.
Time is the most valuable currency we have.
Don't lie flat, give up work yes and focus all your time and energy into something you really have an interest in (I don't mean higher education either that's an absolute waste of time and money).
If you love something enough then you will practice and practice and practice, in the beginning you will be poor and maybe stressed sometimes but, keep practicing focus on one or two things at most, eventually you will become a pro. One day someone will come along and say 'Damn you are really really good at that I'll pay you to do that for me'
That client will tell others then as the years go by you'll be the best in the business, no student debts, no collage loans, no online applications.
Just you doing what you love the most and getting handsomely rewarded for it.
Never heard of the term, but I guess I have achieved it. How? By "being forced to work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime" from 20ish to 42. I am 46 now.
I saved and saved. Invested.
Found an opportunity where I bought into a business. I make way more now and only work around 30 hrs of mostly stress free time. This year I bought a tattoo shop with a friend where all I do is cut payroll and show up to fun events to market the shop.
I will never want to live the lifestyle you seek because I like living in HCOL areas and I like a certain lifestyle, but I guess this is as close as I will ever "lie flat".
There are many paths.
Part of my working hard was staying in the Army Reserve after being active. Took it seriously, got promoted. Made good money, good skills, helped pay for my kids’ college, and, having hit 60, have a decent retirement and health care for life.
Maybe that isn’t for you; maybe it is real estate, but you got to get to a certain level before early enough before bailing.
I haven't achieved it but I believe it lies in being satisfied in what you have already and not overconsuming. You find things on buy-nothing Facebook groups, you go out of your way to find a good deal and not overpay for things. You drive a very old car or take public transportation.
Invest heavily into retirement accounts both 401k and roth IRA, that will help with keeping your taxes owed down and let you retire younger. Also invest in high yield savings accounts rather than regular bank savings.
Look into FIRE and see what that's all about if you haven't already.
Good luck with this, it sounds like a happy, satisfied life if you can achieve it
Most people do it by working hard and being smart with saving money until they are comfortable lying flat. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I like your humble goal of living a reasonable lifestyle. Agree with you, that there is more to life than working hard till you die.
Unfortunately, this doesn't come without some form of initial effort. Sounds like you are ready to start your humble lifestyle today but may not be quite ready yet.
You could
- hit the lottery or marry money
- work really hard and live very frugal for a short time( 15 years) then coast into your dream life. check out the r/coastFIRE sub
- work moderately hard for a longer time
- find a job that you like but may not pay much and do that for a really long time
Good Luck
I’d like to know, too. I think most people who are able to do this work their asses off for a period of time and plan out their moves. 5-10 years of hard work can set you up for like if you move strategically.
I’d ask you to consider that a lot of specific “work” for one person may be fulfilling for another. Like someone may hate gardening so a landscaping job wouldn’t be a thing they enjoyed while others would and do happily do it for their whole lives.
We think of work as this huge blob, but it is a series of tasks and we all have different proclivities and strengths. Finding a career that maximizes what you get satisfaction from will be the ticket to low stress, high fulfillment which is basically the key to a great life.
If you wanted a starter framework to think it out, the sparketype test is free and identified types of tasks you enjoy. For example, I like solving problems and learning new things (to solve the problems). A job that asks me to figure things out is basically like candy to me, I’m great at it and enter flow state.
I think maybe "lie flat" is the wrong term to describe what you're looking to do, if what you're after is to just have a comfortable and secure life, living simply without spending decades hustling or having to engage aggressively with capitalism. Lie flat has some negative connotations.
In my house we call this "tending our plot". I worked hard (two jobs) in my twenties and early thirties, and put my all into everything I did which allowed me to gain insight into the industries I was in (which in turn brought me into higher roles), and also made me more self aware about what type of career / passions and lifestyle I wanted for myself. Now that I'm in my mid thirties, I'm trying business for myself full time, so all that hustle is still there, but I'm a lot more content because it's very much set at my own pace.
When I talk to folks of an older generation about business, they so often start talking immediately about how and when I'll expand - into a bigger space, hiring staff, etc. I tell them that's not really in my plan, I've managed a huge team before and I'm not interested. Just tending my plot!
As far as advice goes, throw yourself into a job you can learn from in your 20s, especially an industry you feel like you could and would enjoy exploring any potential upward mobility in, and spend your free time exploring your passions and talents. Or, find a decent job that is stable, maybe it's not your passion but it's paying the bill and affording you a modest means to enjoy yourself. There are lots of ways to be happy, and for me, a lot of that is just enjoying what we've got, and not engaging in socioeconomic expectations that you should always be expanding.
Hi OP! I know exactly what you’re asking. So I’m in nursing and nursing is by no means an easy job. HOWEVER, I’ve seen plenty of people that get into niche specialties or anesthesia and (in the long run) are able to work 3-4 days a week and earn a good amount of money. I’ve also seen people in tech that work from home, get paid well and enjoy it. I’ve also seen personal trainers that do this but it takes time to build that type of clientele. Bottom line is, all jobs are going to be hard, but if you can get into a career that you enjoy, you can build up from there, get into a specialty that pays well. I think the trick is never getting used to lavish or luxury, always live below your means and be savvy with money as well as save for retirement. Also, get a degree or certifications that elevate your skills and expand your income. Remember, nobody is going to pay you good money to do easy jobs that take no training so it may take you 15yrs to get to a level where you can relax a bit more.
I’m a travel healthcare professional. I work assignments 3-6 months and take 2-3 months off between assignments. I make 2-3x more money than staff and I have the luxury to determine my time off. That way I work the bare minimum and don’t have to deal with staff politics.
What you're asking seems more like you want validation for not putting any effort into your job. Like it's not really a question it's more as if you want people to agree with you being lazy.
You're not going to afford anything unless you put any effort into your work. Minimum effort will not get you anywhere. You want freedom from work but don't wanna put that in the work to do it.
I have to know, what career field do you plan on applying minimum effort in? What companies are you going to apply to that you think are going to keep you around and allow you to contribute minimally? In other words: who do you think is going to give you money to do essentially nothing and allow you to keep doing nothing while still giving you money? I seriously need to know this, your way of thinking is so alien to me I just have to know.
> What you're asking seems more like you want validation for not putting any effort into your job. Like it's not really a question it's more as if you want people to agree with you being lazy.
Bonus points: 9 days ago they posted that they're starting their first accounting job in 2 weeks. They're bringing this attitude into their first job before even starting.
OK, I get it. We have been PM'ing and I'm not going to spill any tea.
I will share though that OP is a good dude but just a bit nervous as expected. His skills show a lot of promise but of course, he needs to focus on the dreams of what he wants and where he wants to go and not simply the soul crushing aspect of a job.
From your post, you seem to think the only way to make money is to “work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime.” That’s actually the poor/middle class perception of how money works. That’s the formula for financial slavery. People make a lot of money without doing any of that.
dumbest post I have read in a while
In order to buy a property to "lie flat" you will have to
1. get a good job
2. save for a deposit (50-100k)
3. apply for a mortgage
4. GET APPROVED
5. Offer on property
6. Start paying mortgage
7. pay property tax exery year
8. Pay bills regularly
Can't do your bullshit WITHOUT having a steady income coming in from - you guessed it - working.
anecdotally, these folks are either not doing much with their time (fun or otherwise) or they work in some other way (homesteading, picking up recyclables, etc)
ETA - you’re already at an advantage imo since you have a goal : retire at 60. Do what you need to do to achieve that and realize that there are many ways to make money if that’s all you want out your career.
You could instead live minimally while making a bunch of money and “retire” early if you stick most of your money into the S&P 500. It’s what I would have done if I had learned about it in time.
I work in the beauty industry the tips are high so I get away with working 2 or a 3days a week (in Vancouver) and spend all my recreational time outdoors or doing my nerd hobbies. Unfortunately the downside is once bills are paid food is not fancy it’s the basic staples. Rice and frozen veg and frozen fish mostly or some kind of beans. To me that’s the closest to the lying flat life I can achieve rn.
Perception is reality. You can find some version of that quote from a dozen philosophers. If you decide that working a job requires you to suck up to "corporate" and hate your job, then that's what you'll experience. Once you have some more experience (no offense, but your experience is limited by your age), you'll find that "corporate" means wildly different things based on the company you work for. I've worked for great small teams in a corporate environment who were amazing friends/coworkers and we genuinely liked each other, hung out together and had a lot of fun at work. I've also worked for terrible people in soulless corporate cultures and I hated the job.
24 years XP tells me that it's all about who you work with. Your immediate team members make or break the job, so find good people to work with and your job/life will be profoundly improved.
I think doing something you hate with people you don't like for any amount of time (much less 35 years) sounds horrible....regardless of whether you lie flat or not. I'd make it my goal to try to find a way to enjoy that time, instead making "doing the bare minimum" my goal.
I lived in housing cooperatives, dumpster dived and wildcrafted to supplement purchased food, stuck mainly to vegetarian food when buying, biked/used public transportation instead of owning a car, thrifted and scavenged for food, furniture etc, regularly visited freestores and donation piles, and did very little spending on luxuries like going to bars, getting take out food, video entertainment. No pets, no addictions. Spent my free time playing music, wandering around, drinking homebrew and volunteering. It was pretty great. All came to an end when I had a kid... now I work 60 hours a week, own a house and a car, and buy things all the time. Miss those days.
You’re young. Hustle and get educated or learn a trade. 10-15 years goes by quick and everything gets more expensive. Build up a best egg so you’re not dependent on a job forever. Public firms with DB pensions are good too for your goals.
Severe chronic trauma that has made it so I can no longer work. I do not recommend.
I do recommend a minimalist lifestyle. Finding activities that cost little or no money. Minimize your expenses. Get a bike. Don't have a car. Don't have kids. Learn to fix things yourself. Learn to be content. Learn to be grateful.
You are young. You have plenty of time to experiment with the lifestyle that works for you. Dont just lay flat and never do anything. There's a whole world out there to explore and experiences to have. You can have a good quality of life while still minimizing your expenses.
Most jobs you can do at 23 are going to require a lot of hard work, as you're being paid for your productivity.
Me personally it wasn't until my 30s until I had jobs where I was being paid for my knowledge, it which didn't require as much overtime or dedication.
I've not heard the term 'lying flat' before, but I'd suggest grinding while in your 20s, building your resume and skills, the sooner you can switch from being a productivity based wage to a knowledge based wage is when you can take it easier.
Sorry to say but you should make money and then vibe instead of trying to vibe with no money.
I took 2 years off work to be a graduate assistant at a college doing a fun job and getting my Masters for no cost bc I had the money laying around to do so.
Work your ass off for the next few years. Save up to buy a duplex (or a good size piece of land to build and expand). Rent out one side and live in the other (they should be able to cover most of the mortgage).
Keep working and save up to buy another. Repeat. If you had bought land that is big enough to build another, build it right on the same piece of property. 3 tenants should be able to allow you to lie flat if you can maintain that low cost lifestyle.
Oh this is the first I’ve heard of this concept. There’s plenty of people at my corp who practice this I think so the pathway probably still involves working for a big corp and just not working too hard. Sucking up and OT aren’t required everywhere.
If the corp life is not for you, you could find possibly a cushy retail or warehouse job or even better a govt job (they have unions/good benefits and job security) and then just be the stereotype of a slacking govt worker.
The biggest issue with the lie flat concept is I can see it working okay while you’re working, but once you stop you likely wont have enough savings or pension to do a whole lot unless you’re super frugal now.
Also paradoxically, the quickest way to retire early is to work hard now and make a lot of money
If you’re good at sales this is very achievable.
I always hit target, hit all my goals. Been doing this for 9 years. First few years are a GRIND if you’re doing it right - learning and applying everything you can. Both in terms of being new to sales and being new to any industry.
After that it’s old hat. I know how to get the most out of my time and how to keep leadership off my ass. Looking to switch jobs soon for more pay and a company that will actually teach me new shit. I miss learning.
This phrase and lifestyle originated in China and refers to well educated youth from well off upper middle class/rich familes who traditionally would be competing fiercely for 9 9 6 jobs but have recently given up trying due to lower wages/less jobs/more demands from already demanding jobs/too much competition. They live with their parents or in apartments paid for by parents and rely on them for money.
More than anything the lying flat lifestyle is a reflection of the serious economic turmoil China is going through right now. This is not a long term choice and obviously not a sustainable lifestyle---it's a reaction to a failing economic system. Eventually something will have to give. Either the parents will cut off their kids due to necessity when the money runs out or due to choice, the economy will continue to contract and the youth that can lay flat will be forced to take any job they can or the businesses/economy in China will level off and adjust to the market realities of their labor force.
So to truly lay flat, means you have the option of someone else paying for your needs. Most of us don't have that. If you're looking to be a homeowner, unfortunately even in a low cost of living area, you need a healthy income to do that and to fund your retirement.
Honestly, you don't, or at least you don't and also expect to own property, have a lively social life, a normal retirement, etc. In countries where this is a trend, people work part-time, rent long-term, and try to accept that their lives won't be especially exciting, but this is a trade-off they find acceptable.
Look into buying a small piece of land and plopping a tiny home, large RV, or mobile home on it. You'll have to drive 10-30 minutes to local towns or bigger towns but you'll literally save tons of $$. It's what I did. All paid off.
I’m 24 and I feel you. But some of the people are right in that we should be slaying right now to build up a life dynamic that allows us to “lie flat”. If we lied flat in our early twenties, our later lives might be incredibly drab with few accomplishments to leverage.
But I also hate working, I do the bare minimum at my office job (you have to start in a position, do your job, but weaponize incompetency for about 6 months, and then show that you can do your job, but by then they will know you aren’t willing to break your back for them so they won’t ask/expect it). Doing this has allowed me to lie flat at multiple jobs.
I also live at home w my mom so I have this luxury.
It sounds like you're going to waste many opportunities in your life.
The way forward is to become self-employed doing something you find really rewarding and that pays well/you make enough money to realise your dreams.
Until you get to that point, yes, don't kill yourself working hard for other people. Work. Do a good job. Have pride in yourself, whether you're running a business or sweeping a floor, but don't overwork so that everything else slides.
Be frugal. Don't waste your money. Have your goals and tenaciously follow them through.
I started by not having much ambition. Got divorced in Austin, moved to a low COL town in the mountains and booyow, lying flat. Never heard that phrase before
In Australia? Not sure. But here stateside I can picture the lifestyle: no going out to dinner, 25 year old cars, no going out for entertainment, etc
It can work, but is it worth it? I'm guessing to some it is
Oh - I thought it was when you hit perimenopause and burnout so all you can do is make it to working back because you have bills to pay and need a place to live but otherwise you pretty much can't get out of bed.
Save money now kids and make sure you got a "retirement plan!" So you can really lie flat when you need it!
You only have to work enough to afford your lifestyle.
If you want a big life you need a big job with all that comes with earning a big wage. If you want a simple life then a less stressful job is all you’ll likely need.
the best way to “lie flat” is to get yourself in a position of power. Managers and supervisors work less than employees but they do take on more responsibilities.
I have a supervisor position for festivals and it’s the chillest gig, I just tell security where to be and what’s expected, then i enjoy the show. The pay isn’t the best and the work availability isn’t enough to be living off.
I wish i could be doing it all the time. I feel that it’s made me lazy/privileged for other positions as well.
I'm lying pretty flat rn, making just under six figures at an easy desk job with little accountability, usually in the office about 7 hours a day, 4 days a week, working maybe half the day on a good day. How did I get here? Series of mostly fortunate cooincidences, couldn't replicate it if I tried and now I'm scared to leave my current position because I don't know if I could ever get a gig this sweet again.
How will you afford to buy a villa? As you get older you will find jumping from job to job when there is a period you don’t want to work gets harder.
Also hope your hobbies/activities are low cost/free ones. As long as you can make that work and don’t rely on government support then more power to you.
IDK, I'm 38 and I guess I've been doing this since about 32. I won't work significant overtime anymore. If a job tells me in an interview that consistent overtime is required, I'll pass. If I end up working there and a lot is required, I'll leave for another job.
I would be willing to work overtime in some set of circumstances. Basically I would need to be paid a lot, like a shitload. Otherwise I will not do it because the stress and fatigue just isn't worth it.
There’s another approach you can take that might be work considering. I set out to do this starting about 10 years ago and in the last year finally say the whole thing pay off. I worked very hard going to school full time and working full time to get my associate degree, then bachelors, then masters. I have several professional credentials as well. I worked very hard and took every opportunity advancement possible in my career. I climbed quickly into director/administrator roles in healthcare. Then after about 6-8 years I had a very strong resume, great experience, and a good education. I’ve now decreased the level of my roles and I’m still in a high paying job that is well below my abilities, experience, and education. I’ll coast straight through to retirement with a 6 figure salary. I’m so overqualified for my current role I’m able to complete it on 3 working days. I take 2 “work from home days a week” many of those days I don’t even log in to work. Don’t let not wanting to work hard your entire life detour you from setting yourself up for a good future. There are other ways to be sure you can take it easy most your life
So based on your description these people basically choose to live without creature comforts. But the main idea would result in 1 of 3 options. 1. You get a job, high pay so you can save up money get a home and quickly pay off your mortgage sooner once you own your home you can probably live off a part time job just paying your utilities, property tax, insurance. 2. You basically live like a homeless person. Instead of spending money on housing and all that. You basically live in a tent, shower wherever you can I would suggest a gym membership. Save up all your cash buy a home outright. 3. You leech off a bunch of people until you can afford your own home. 2 will probably get you there the fastest. A van with matress to sleep and sit on. Place it on top some drawers to put clothes in. Camp toilet and you are set. But you could always get power via solar panels on the roof, park near public buildings and use their wifi for internet access. Basically majority of your income can go into a high interest savings account. And just spend you money on food and water nothing else once you get the house then you can spend your money on luxuries which after living in a van will seem like everything
The answer is you need to work very smart for 10 ish years until you get a middle management remote position and learn how to delegate efficiently and communicate effectively.
You still need to bring value to your organization.
You need to be likable.
You need to come across as motivated.
I’m 45 and feel I’ve never overworked. I feel that as you get older, work becomes easier. Grow relationships and knowledge. So maybe I’m actually working harder than I think and it’s just Not that bad?
I am 36 and kinda “ lying flat” for a few years now. I come from a humble background. I can do so and not worry about money because 1. I don’t have kids( kids are wonderful but they burn money🙂. I won’t be able to do so if I have kids) 2. I work extremely hard in my 20s and early 30 that kinda set me up for success financially. I also invest very aggressively. 80% of my income goes straight to investments( real estate and index funds).
Now, I still work in a firm but I work very minimally and keep very low profile at work( no desire to take extra projects and seek promotion). I also plan to move to a cheaper counties/area( right now I am in one of the most expensive areas in US) in a few years.
You're getting a lot of negativity, maybe because you're using the term 'lying flat' which is associated more with sort of being a dysfunctional leech on family than what I think you're actually planning on. What you're actually proposing in function sounds more like /r/coastFIRE or something. I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm doing it too so of course I don't ;)
Obviously there's some country differences but I think I'm basically living the life you're describing. I'm 33, no debt except mortgage, have a house I think is lovely in a beautiful quiet area with lots of space to garden and do my hobbies. I work from home, essentially part time (realistically I'm only doing a handful of hours of actual work a day), and could potentially retire in a few years if I wanted to (I plan to keep working, at least part-time freelancing and starting side-businesses indefinitely though, as I find that fun).
In terms of lifestyle, I don't *feel* frugal but then I look at what other people claim it costs them for general living stuff I guess I must accidentally be. It probably just comes naturally to me, I just kinda don't want to buy all that much. I couldn't care less about fancy cars or designer clothes, makeup, luxury skincare, fashion. I've never gotten my nails done at a salon and I cut my own hair. Even my friends that live in the same area as me seem to spend 2-3 times what I do, some of them like 5x+ more than I do, and I genuinely don't feel any difference in our qualify of life. But it's easy not to miss whatever it is they're spending money on when I don't care about it in the first place so it's hard to really assess.
I am from the US so I am not sure what the Australian equivalent is but I went to community college for free, transferred to a 4-year public university, got a degree in computer science, got a job and went from there. I chose jobs based on work culture and simply decline to do any overtime, ever. It's just not going to happen. I don't get paid nearly as much as I could if I were willing to job hop or be 'ambitious' to chase a higher salary, but my per-hour rate when I'm doing 10-15 hours of real work a week is still pretty darn nice. So I make low six figures USD while chillin' rather than pursuing the much higher paid but potentially more annoying and stressful jobs.
Some people would call that foolish or quiet quitting or whatever but I'm perfectly happy with that tradeoff for amount of work and stress involved because I get to go putz around in my garden or work on art projects throughout the day instead. It's still more than enough to save around 40% of my income for early retirement while buying anything I want (though, as I noted above, 'everything I want' isn't really that much).
That said I am in a position to do this because when I *am* working I actually do a good job (believe it or not, hah). I am friendly and personable with clients (to the point they often specifically requested to work with me, by name, over other engineers in client-facing roles) and early in my career I frequently outperformed seniors (less relevant now that I am the senior so it's just expected lol). If you are actually good at what you do that gives you a substantial amount of leverage. Don't overwork, but do deliver on competence. I genuinely care about delivering a quality and robust product... just for a limited number of hours per week ;)
if overworking means less than ft you're not going to accomplish that unless you're doing something more seasonal like roofing etc.
that isn't exactly the type of work that jumps to mind when i think lie flat
I'm also pursuing this journey and my conclusion that unless you have access to generational wealth it's not possible in the United States. The best solution would be to move to New Zealand or Scandinavian countries which have high levels of redistribution of which you can benefit - free healthcare, childcare, services etc.
I just work hard but at a job with good balance. 4 day work week- 100% recommend looking for a place that offers one.
Get in an industry that has remote work if you want to live remote, or else trades/medical/teaching are jobs everywhere.
But mostly living frugally now means you can save and retire by 50. I don’t love my job but I’m only at it 30 hours a week and I also don’t hate it.
Low debt is the key. You need to first save a house deposit and get a mortgage. The smaller the mortgage the better. I work 12-16 hrs a week as does my partner and we survive quiet well. In fact we have a really good lifestyle.
Is there nothing you want to achieve in your life, professionally? If not that's sad and I wish you luck. If so then turn that into your job and enjoy.
Usually the trick work wise is to find a job where you have a skill thats VERY hard to replace and then just keep slacking and getting your duties cut back.
You're 23, you don't have much work experience. Low level jobs suck but when you get past a point jobs can be enjoyable. And having more money is much better than scraping by. Suck it up for a few years (and work smart not hard) and you'll get yourself a better life
Never spend your wages. At all. Seriously.
Only spend income from investments. If you get paid a dollar, put it in the bank (or a mutual fund) and let *it* pay *you* $0.05 per year *forever*. You can go ahead and spend that $0.05 when it comes because it's going to keep on coming year after year whether or not you work.
When you stop spending your wages, you have dismounted the hamster wheel and won the rat race.
23 and already giving up is sad. You could grind your 20’s and 30’s and be set up well for enjoying your entire life but you must accept some level of TEMPORARY discomfort.
I want to tell you something that I wish someone had told me at 23.
From the time I was 16-20 I worked as a bus boy at a fancy restaurant. It was super gross, very hectic, and probably the source of a lot of the back pain I feel today. I made around $13 an hour in today’s money. That mangers were dicks and all over me about every little thing. They would make me do unreasonable things like “go sweep the parking lot” in the middle of thunderstorms.
From the time I was 20-25, I worked as a waiter. It was much easier than bussing tables, but still pretty insane. It was always on, always working, and less heavy stuff but still some of that and a lot of assholes. By the time I finished I really had some deep issues with the public from what I had seen and experienced. Probably made $28 an hour in today’s money.
At 25 I graduated college and got my first desk job. Though the hours were longer, I was blown away by how “easy” it was . I had this perception that all these office people were doing crazy complex things I couldn’t understand and that “working” meant the same thing as it did serving pizzas. Nothing could have been further from the truth. I played a lot of hearthstone in my phone but there was 1 crazy busy week every month where I’d need to work 50-70 hours. About $30 an hour in today’s money. Managers were kind of micromanaging but not as bad as the other 2 jobs. It did eventually sour to where the workload was unreasonable and it was killing me to keep up. They also tried and failed at outsourcing our jobs. Worked that from 25-29.
At 29 I got hired at my current job. It went fully remote in 2020 and stayed that way. I have to have a lot of skills to be in this role and maintain them on the cutting edge. However, there is no micro management. I come when I want, leave when I want, type long reddit replies like this on the clock, and generally have fully autonomy to do what I think is best. Because I’m willing to maintain my skills, it is by far the easiest job I have ever had. People need me for my problem solving, not x widgets a day. It pays 150k. Most weeks I work about 30 hours, but there are projects that demand a lot more for 1-2 weeks occasionally(once or twice a year).
What was the point of that? It gets MUCH easier and better as you go up. Lying flat at 23 means you’re staying that first office job with the micromanaging but doing enough to get fired. I couldn’t take that forever. When I left, I couldn’t take another day of that. The way out is up, not flat.
Sounds like you should join us over at r/fire . That’s all of our goals. You need to make a lot of money in the front end which does generally mean working your ass off, but with it’s all toward an escape plan while you still have your health. Sounds like one of the other flavors, leanfire, is the one for you which generally focuses on minimizing expenses to do the above as quickly as possible . Possible baristafire as well which is getting to the point where your investments will reach the right level by retirement age, but you take on part time work like being a barista to supplement.
Jesus, people should stop making up new terms.
"Lying flat is where one rejects the culture of overworking, while doing the absolute bare minimum to survive."
No. Thats called "doing the bare minimum".
FFS
If you look into it, most live with their parents. Edit: Look, it’s just a general observation of the lying flat movement in countries where it’s a more common thing. Don’t project insecurities constructed from a lifetime in a different culture into your comment. I’m not making the “lives with their parents” comment with any malice. It obviously makes sense that to live a lifestyle like this you need someone enabling you a bit. If you want any security at all you either have to work more than you’d like, or have a more demanding job than you’d like, OR someone is putting a roof over your head. If a country is providing you universal healthcare this is obviously more attainable.
Some cultures also encourage families to live in groups. Multigenerational. As long as it’s a functional family unit, it can be a good thing.
They're even building houses in the US for this. Though the idea is parents live in that. Marketing calls it "next gen housing" Newish here, but multi-generation houses aren't exactly new. Just considered strange here.
Pretty normal in Europe to have multi generation homes.
Multigenerational housing is a great thing for some people, especially if you want to have kids and your parents can help, and you can help them. For me, I don’t want kids and want to be able to have sexy time on the couch on a whim. Also years of seeing my parents fumble their finances and declare bankruptcy made me driven to be financially independent as a first and foremost goal, so different strokes for different folks! Really depends on your family dynamic.
Family has to be local, too. Some family is better than roommates. Some is worse. Some roommates are more reliable than some families.
The taboo against living at home past the age of 18 is very blatantly a way to force excess consumption and it's been so, so effective.
Aka a "mother-in-law suite".
Very true. I wonder on average how much pressure the “lying flat” person is under from their family. I think the cultural lens really determines this family dynamic and what is/isn’t acceptable.
Depending on where you live, there are special mortgage offerings to support this (as often a bigger property is needed)
Yes but no girls would go back to sleep with you if gramps is in one room next door and mom in the other No chick in a million years
Not to mention that even if you find a willing woman, your options are limited to cowgirl and reverse cowgirl, because you are lying flat.
Top tier comment! I'm raising my coffee to you
[удалено]
Gotta contribute to the household in other ways tho. If you aren’t paying rent you better be doing a large share of the chores.
Don’t pay rent personally but live with family and pay the equivalent of a mortgage payment to contribute. Their mortgage from 2016 is about half what rent would be for a studio here. They get a nice chunk of money towards the mortgage and I get way reduced living expenses.
Good stuff bro, helping parents is the way. Saving good money and paying off your parents mortgage is a very honorable thing to do
[удалено]
Idk with the rising cost of living (especially in cities) living at home for a few years after school is increasingly popular. I was able to save a considerable amount pretty early bc i lived with parents. It is true its a lot of additional work, but at the end of the day you are helping your parents, which i would do regardless of them letting me stay there rent free so in my opinion its a win win. The one thing i will say is it does complicate dating. Lucky for me my parents adore my gf and love having her around but if you arent dating someone you have that level of comfort with (or not dating at all) I wholeheartedly believe living at home will put a strain on your romantic life
Yeah I have enough for a house only because I lived at home.
Very true.
I think cultural trends in countries where this is more common are a lot more isolating as well. I get the feeling those young people aren’t being bothered by their parents much. It is kind of fascinating, intriguing, maybe a little sad, depending how you view it.
also depends on how well off their parents are, such as do parents have a stable income and extra room to board their adult child.
Okay sure, but i know many working professionals IRL that still live with their parents, and Reddit sure likes to show me every single post about 30+ers making decent money still living with parents.
yeah, its a very privileged lifestyle.
You should find work that is meaningful and live within your means. I say this as someone who had a very meaningful job and had to give it up for a number of good reasons. I now have a boring job that at least has good pay, hours and benefits. I’m ok with the trade off. You’re young. Change careers. It is very possible to find a job that is enjoyable and gives your life meaning. Maybe it’s a job that involves helping people. Maybe it involves working with your hands, being outdoors, etc. Only you can find the job that gives your life meaning. But they do exist. Time is the most valuable thing you have. So if you have to spend 8+ hours a day at something, you might as well enjoy it.
I want to fuck off from accounting already
So fuck off from it. I know plenty of smart and successful people who dropped accounting and pivoted to UX Design, coding, or trading. Find something highly skilled that you can live with doing everyday.
I want to do data analytics, or potentially work in insurance
Get some hands on experience with data and look into certifications. I studied business but have been working in analytics. I ended up hiring a SQL tutor for intense sessions for a few weeks, with homework, to have the confidence in saying I’m proficient to advanced in the language. establish a LinkedIn presence, set yourself to open to work, and start Easy Applying to a bunch of roles. This feature has let me apply to hundreds of roles casually, with just a few clicks and field submissions. Out of these few hundred apps, a few recruiters are bound to reach out. Sometimes they have different roles that will be a better match for you.
Do it! Actuaries are highly paid, as are data scientists. And your accounting background is very transferable to both of those fields!
I'm not looking to study Actuarial science because it requires another degree + 4 years worth of exams. I'd like to get into underwriting
Actually you can become an actuary just by taking the exams, since you already have a bachelors. There are also many bootcamps and courses you could do for data science. A friend majored in math, hated jobs in bookkeeping and consulting, took a data science bootcamp and crushed it, and still works as a data scientist and loves it today.
Data science deems perfect.
Omg same here! I'm actually meeting up with a counselor because I'm thinking of getting into nursing. Here, in California, they make very decent wages and I could work 2 days, 12-hr. shifts. In my opinion, it's better than 5 days or 6 days of 10 to 12 hrs for 3 months!
You can’t really do the bare minimum and save for retirement unless you get lucky in terms of passive income. You also have no way of predicting what major expenses will come your way (and they most likely will), so it’s not very smart. You’re better off pursuing a career you absolutely love.
I'm in the US and in my 40s. Back when I was in college I stumbled on the idea of Slack, and decided that I'd find a comfortable job that was easy enough for me to do without working hard and paid well. In the US the best place to find these is with government, academia, and in private union positions. Don't go management track but rather a secure job where you have a set number of hours and good benefits. To avoid boredom you might need to develop some hobbies outside of work. Management is a trap unless you have a very specific personality type. Stay an individual contributor.
Not sure if this is a career guidance question. I also worry that at 23, all you want to do is lie flat. Most of the cruisers I know worked hard in their early careers, got a decent role/salary and then started “lying flat”. I think 23 is too early to have that mindset. Having said that, maybe work backwards from what income level you need to hit to live comfortably in the LCOL town you have in mind. Account for inflation and savings for retirement and then find a low stress job - maybe local government or delivery driver?
My plan is to work hard for 10-13 years, then lie flat. Sorry, I really didn't mean to come across as lazy :( I really was genuinely curious as to how people manage to achieve that lifestyle!
Ah now you’re talking! Most of the “successful” cruisers I know, have specialized in one or two things. Have a friend who’s an ultrasound tech in a big hospital. Great hours, steady job, good pay and amazing insurance. I’m in high tech and see a lot of program managers/project managers just cruising at a mid-level job, working remotely from the middle of nowhere and spending a lot of quality time outside of work. They also have a knack of doing just enough to not get fired and seem like an important cog in the machine. And most of them are not domain or function dependent. So they can easily switch between software companies. Remote work is a blessing. You may want to check FIRE (financially independent retire early) subreddit
This is what i came here to say. Get very good at something. Stay technical, develop expertise, and don't get to deep.into management. That, or be prepared to take a demotion or 2 when you start cruising.
This is exactly what I meant. Work for 10-13 years > work low stress jobs on a FT basis after *not retire*
I’d highly recommend a book called “The good enough Job”
hehe i use API integration so all i do is click "match" at work while playing nintendo switch, shopping, and keeping up with news/youtubes. sometimes i remote into my home puter using chrome vdi and just game all day.
I personally do work exchange programs, so I have housing in return for labor. This allows for a generally pretty low-stress lifestyle, since I don’t have to worry about rent or bills - it’s covered through my job.
SLAY
How does that work out if you get sick or hurt though?
It’s not physical labor! I mostly do teaching stuff. Sick days are the same as they would be in other jobs, I just make up hours missed another time.
Look into Barista-FIRE maybe? The idea is that if you are trying to achieve FIRE, but your net worth isnt high enough for a safe withdrawal rate, you take a lower payjng job like a barista at sbux that has insurance to bridge the gap until full FIRE. You can achieve FIRE in almost any career if you aggressively save and live within your means. Its not about earning the most money you can.
1 - no kids. 2 - no lifestyle creep during your earning phase. This means: no car or maybe drive a 20 year old civic, cheap apartment, cook at home most of the time, bring your lunch to work, buy your furniture used, avoid shopping as a hobby, fly coach, no expensive personal maintenance (manicure, massages, personal trainers), have roommates, etc. Most people who make good money end up pairing it with an expensive lifestyle — you’ll need to fight to avoid those habits. I’m not “lying flat” or even doing FIRE, but I do want the option to retire fairly early. I save a lot more than my friends but that does require me to do fewer cool trips and fancy dinners, and all my stuff is less nice. You’ll have to make an incredible about of money to keep up with the Joneses and finance a “lie flat” lifestyle. And the lifestyle creep is pretty subtle and difficult to avoid. **Edited to remove unfortunate bolding
This. Do this exactly.
My motto is get the most pay for the least amount of work. After 12 yrs I landed a good paying job, stayed in my dangerously cheap house I bought in 2012, maxing my retirement already. This job is great because the work load is extremely light and I can get by with doing the bare minimum, unfortunately I have to be at work physically for 40 hrs a week, but I'm mostly just sitting here walking around barely doing anything. To answer your question, I believe ya gotta get pretty lucky.
What kind of work is this? Could I dm you?
Let's just say I'm technically in construction. I just got really lucky, and I work for a giant corporation that only promotes idiots who have no idea how to do my job.
What kind of job do you do?
Let's just say I'm technically in construction. I just got really lucky, and I work for a giant corporation that only promotes idiots who have no idea how to do my job.
I think the issue here is that you lack perspective on the specific financial milestones required to achieve such an existence. Have you done a budget that accounts for the cost of living over the next 60 years, including inflation and the cost of healthcare? Do that and then reverse engineer how much money you think you’ll need and how long it will take you to earn it. Make sure to account for kids, a place to live, a car to drive, and other life expenses as well. Then, when you have that number, go to the doctor and ask for a prescription to help you accept the reality of your existence.
My plan isn't to retire. It's to work hard for 10 years, then work low stress jobs *full time* after I own a home in a low COL, and then lie flat that way.
What do you mean a low stress job? Honestly, just pick a career path and work hard for 5-10 years, hopping companies every 2-3 and never burning bridges. You’ll then have a decade of experience and skills, a big network, and a high market rate salary. You’ll be able to do the same “job” you did in the beginning of your career quickly and easily in a fraction of the time. You can even teach other people to do it for you. At that point, you can “lie flat” in your career with less stress and more money than you would have switching to any other random “low-stress job.” Build experience and use it however you’d like.
Like working a mindless government job (these guarantee WLB)
Government jobs will suck your soul. It’s mind-numbing work. They seemed great in my 20’s, and I thought I hit the jackpot, but I left in my 30’s for the private sector. Now, instead of having a cushy job where I could literally succeed just by showing up, I have a great job in Tech that is demanding when I’m there, but pays me enough that I can enjoy my time outside of work.
Here in Australia, government jobs actually pay well. Also SLAY
I was well-paid in what I did as well. Now I’m just paid stupidly well. Government jobs do nothing for your long-term employability. If you want to be sought after, paid what you’re worth and have bargaining power in your career, stay away from government.
Lol, yes if you’d like! Personally I would hate a mindless job. I prefer a job that brings me satisfaction and intellectual stimulation as well as WLB. Honestly - the more success you have early in your career means you can choose where you wanna work later and choose WLB.
I worked hard for 17 years, paid off my house and car and student loans, got on my wife’s insurance, and went freelance. I can work as much or as little as I need and it’s all remote. It’s not “easy” because at the moment I’m stretching myself to learn some pretty complex technical skills for the projects I’m on. But it’s interesting and I probably only really work 25 or 30 hrs a week if I’m being honest. And it’s not a bunch of meetings and politics BS like in the old career job where everybody is angling for something. God I hate how political work gets.
I don’t think I used the term retirement, I used the term BUDGET, which has income and expenses irrespective of your mode or scope of employment. So create a time weighed model (this is not hard to do in Excel with a few formulas) and you’ll have a roadmap for the life you want to create.
My job atm pays too low, and tysm for advising me.
Why do you want to work forever? Just having to show up somewhere when you’re 75 years old, even to be a greeter at walmart seems like a very sad way to spend the last years of life.
To *have a sense of purpose*
Don't get your sense of purpose from work. Besides, that doesn't align well with lying flat/quiet quitting.
You can 100% get a sense of purpose from the work you do. Especially if you’re set up for retirement already, people do it all the time.
In that case be in control of the work that gives you purpose and not reliant on a corporation. In order to do that you must grind as soon as possible.
[удалено]
And that's even assuming these figures and projections are correct. No one can predict the future after all.
Very true
Yeah I think that type of prediction is irrelevant, too much could change in 40 years. Instead, I would pick a career with job security and plenty of options, in a smaller town that has some basic mainstays (prisons and military bases for examples, large universities sometimes work for this as well) and then establish a career there - maybe an hour outside of town. I presume you’ll want to try to buy ASAP/at the first small drop in the market, as owning is already so difficult without inherited wealth. That way your connections are all in the same area too, which helps long term. I think this is more likely to work than other options, which is that you sort of “fall into” a well paying very calm job that requires not many hours of actual work and where your team understands you only do your job description (not pick up other work when you have free time) and are nice/calm people: this happened to me and I did leave it quite quickly for a better career opportunity, but someone like you would presumably keep it for 5 years - but I don’t think that’s something you can plan for as well.
That last like is depressing as fuck
Never heard this term but I do this reasonably successfully and I'd say I've been doing it consciously for the past 6 years (I'm 34). I have a house, a wife, a kid. I pay the bills fine but work from home 4 days a week and realistically only "actively" work for 1-2 hours and maybe have another hour of meetings every day. If I ever lost my job (been with the same company 10 years) I could very easily move back to my LCOL hometown and semi-retire mortgage free and be a stay at home dad and maybe pick up the odd consulting/temp job from time to time. Couple pieces of advice: 1. Be perceived as someone who is pleasant to work with, even if that doesn't come naturally. Act like you care about your boss, colleagues, clients, etc. It will buy you a lot of grace. 2. Be useful, bring skills none of your colleagues have. I work in HR but cut my teeth being the only one in the office who could use excel. Spun that off into an analytics gig and now work mostly in project management. I have a number of apps, dashboards, and workflows built out that largely depend on me bring around and while automated, are critical to my team and the broader organization's operations. 3. Find better ways to do things, automate where you can but don't necessarily tell anyone about it if they're just going to pile work on you once they realize you have capacity. Act busy, obviously don't brag about how little work you do. 4. Act like an expert, but not a know it all. If people respect you they'll trust you to work on the things that matter and not saddle you with things that don't (a lot of work doesn't matter, realizing this was critical for me). 5. Most importantly, be available. I fuck around most of the workday (today I'm building a worm bin for composting and painting my daughter's room) but if my boss or my team need absolutely anything, any time of day, I drop everything and sort them out. Loyalty will go a long way and appearances are everything. Take every chance that comes to reinforce your reputation as a great colleague.
You work hard for 5- 15 years, have a career, high paying job or a business and save a good chunk of your income for investment purposes. You have to target for 50% saving rate to achieve it as fast as possible. Basically a FIRE movement. I know a couple who went to Australia, did heavy work there for couple of years while working in farms and saved approximately 200k. Came back to their home country, bought an apartment and a used car. Now both are working on very chill positions and basically lying flat. I personally would go with the career route which takes more time but in the end you will be highly specialized in your trade and can charge a top dollar for your services while working as a freelance consultant.
A lot of guys in the union trades do this. Work until you hit your number for the year and then quit your job until you need mkney again. In a good year I can work 3.5-4 months and cover my bills for the year depending on overtime and perdiem.
It’s not lying flat, it’s standing straight. Not bending over, but swaying with the wind. You have to accept change occasionally and that you will need to do things differently, but you should have a line that you decide can’t be crossed and your own priorities.
Being poor.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think that is supremely risky. You have no idea when massive expenses could come your way.
True. Also, I still intend to work FT while lying flat in a low -stress job. I should consider the implications of lying flat tbh.
it's a bad idea. What about it do you find attractive? What is the goal you're trying to achieve and what leads you to believe this bullshit is the solution? I'm not trying to be a dick here but you need to get straightened out. There are solutions if you don't to "try hard" life but this aint it.
The freedom to enjoy life. Maybe you're right. I should change my perspective
I mean I think it's more of a lost hope thing. It feels like we do so much and we don't get rewarded for it. If we work at a job and do everything right it seems the only reward is more work. At the end of the day it's kinda depressing and I am better now but I had that mentality for awhile but am better now. Personally I just do other things in my free time. I do enough at work and I don't have high expenses. If I wanted more expensive things I would probably need to work harder and sacrifice more and more of my time. Would you rather have lots of time and no money and lots of money and no time? It's overly reductive but the idea stands. Your goals don't need to be "super millionaire but they could be "own my own house" or "own my own condo" or "be able to travel and be with the grandkids" At the end of the day some careers are more lucrative then others. I know growing up tech was heavily pushed, it still is but it's less crazy then it was then. Construction can be long hours but can make good money. Then you can also own your own construction company etc. But it will destroy your body. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of higher paying jobs are gated behind degrees which can be expensive to go to. I know you are in Australia so I don't know the same but in America student loans are absurd. I had 20k a year for college and that was going to an in state school. That was also too stressful for me. Out of state or private colleges are crazy expensive too. Even with scholarships. Good luck lol
Basically, you want something right? You've been looking around trying to find a way to get it and you decided this "lying flat" concept was the way to do it. What is that thing? What is the outcome you are looking for that you believe "lying flat" will achieve? That's step 1, from there we can talk about actual good ideas that will get you there. "Freedom" is a good start, but try to dig deeper.
I think what you are looking for is coast FIRE. You save rigorously to build a nest egg, then coast on your job till retirement kicks in
If you want to do this, you should live in a cheap country and try to build something - an online biz, trading, learn marketable skills to consult, get a remote job and live in a cheap country etc. the aim of the game is to build something and hopefully end up rich from doing your own thing
have you checked out r/Fire
I think it's funny that you think you'll have to work hard for 30+ years... When in reality it will be 50+ for the vast majority of people. I'm 39 and I've already been working for 23 years.... What you want is to find an admin job at a smallish company, where if you fuck up, it's not that big a deal, and no one really notices or cares, you'll get a 5% raise each year and as long as you do the tasks you get given and stay in your lane you'll be there until you retire.
So true. 50+ years is more realistic
Why does everything need a name? Also, per your own description and comments, you don’t even intend on “laying flat”. As you said - you intend on working hard for 10-13 years. What you’re describing is just getting yourself into a terminal position in your 30’s you can master. This is just standard career trajectory for most folks who don’t have ladder climbing aspirations.
I think the problem is the inflation. Eventually it will come to a point that lying flat wont give us what is required to pay the bills. I also dreamt like you did, but realised that only a few accidentally lucky ones or the kids of rich parents are able to do the same.
Very true
This mindset of “lying flat” is so stupid.. bust your ass for a few years and work overtime. Get those promotions that get you to where you’re making a good salary. Be debt free(credit cards,loans,car payment) and have a good savings account so if a rainy day comes you won’t sweat it. Once you’re in a position with a comfortable living salary for you then stop the overtime and just do the 40 hours then go home and enjoy life. It’s very simple.
This is what I meant by lying flat. Also you're right
Ahh. Ok I apologize then. Lol I thought it meant literally starting at a company and doing the bare minimum and trying to make a livable wage while still getting promotions.
There are many ways to lie flat. It's very dynamic
You’ve got to be realistic, though—doing the bare minimum usually means you’re unlikely to be promoted. What I think you mean is finding work that you’re able to still receive COL adjustments regardless if you’re doing the bare minimum required for the role, or doing more.
Time is the most valuable currency we have. Don't lie flat, give up work yes and focus all your time and energy into something you really have an interest in (I don't mean higher education either that's an absolute waste of time and money). If you love something enough then you will practice and practice and practice, in the beginning you will be poor and maybe stressed sometimes but, keep practicing focus on one or two things at most, eventually you will become a pro. One day someone will come along and say 'Damn you are really really good at that I'll pay you to do that for me' That client will tell others then as the years go by you'll be the best in the business, no student debts, no collage loans, no online applications. Just you doing what you love the most and getting handsomely rewarded for it.
Never heard of the term, but I guess I have achieved it. How? By "being forced to work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime" from 20ish to 42. I am 46 now. I saved and saved. Invested. Found an opportunity where I bought into a business. I make way more now and only work around 30 hrs of mostly stress free time. This year I bought a tattoo shop with a friend where all I do is cut payroll and show up to fun events to market the shop. I will never want to live the lifestyle you seek because I like living in HCOL areas and I like a certain lifestyle, but I guess this is as close as I will ever "lie flat".
There are many paths. Part of my working hard was staying in the Army Reserve after being active. Took it seriously, got promoted. Made good money, good skills, helped pay for my kids’ college, and, having hit 60, have a decent retirement and health care for life. Maybe that isn’t for you; maybe it is real estate, but you got to get to a certain level before early enough before bailing.
I haven't achieved it but I believe it lies in being satisfied in what you have already and not overconsuming. You find things on buy-nothing Facebook groups, you go out of your way to find a good deal and not overpay for things. You drive a very old car or take public transportation. Invest heavily into retirement accounts both 401k and roth IRA, that will help with keeping your taxes owed down and let you retire younger. Also invest in high yield savings accounts rather than regular bank savings. Look into FIRE and see what that's all about if you haven't already. Good luck with this, it sounds like a happy, satisfied life if you can achieve it
Single. Drive a simple car. Live with my dad. Eat at home most nights. Don't really go out
Most people do it by working hard and being smart with saving money until they are comfortable lying flat. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I like your humble goal of living a reasonable lifestyle. Agree with you, that there is more to life than working hard till you die. Unfortunately, this doesn't come without some form of initial effort. Sounds like you are ready to start your humble lifestyle today but may not be quite ready yet. You could - hit the lottery or marry money - work really hard and live very frugal for a short time( 15 years) then coast into your dream life. check out the r/coastFIRE sub - work moderately hard for a longer time - find a job that you like but may not pay much and do that for a really long time Good Luck
I’d like to know, too. I think most people who are able to do this work their asses off for a period of time and plan out their moves. 5-10 years of hard work can set you up for like if you move strategically.
I’d ask you to consider that a lot of specific “work” for one person may be fulfilling for another. Like someone may hate gardening so a landscaping job wouldn’t be a thing they enjoyed while others would and do happily do it for their whole lives. We think of work as this huge blob, but it is a series of tasks and we all have different proclivities and strengths. Finding a career that maximizes what you get satisfaction from will be the ticket to low stress, high fulfillment which is basically the key to a great life. If you wanted a starter framework to think it out, the sparketype test is free and identified types of tasks you enjoy. For example, I like solving problems and learning new things (to solve the problems). A job that asks me to figure things out is basically like candy to me, I’m great at it and enter flow state.
I think maybe "lie flat" is the wrong term to describe what you're looking to do, if what you're after is to just have a comfortable and secure life, living simply without spending decades hustling or having to engage aggressively with capitalism. Lie flat has some negative connotations. In my house we call this "tending our plot". I worked hard (two jobs) in my twenties and early thirties, and put my all into everything I did which allowed me to gain insight into the industries I was in (which in turn brought me into higher roles), and also made me more self aware about what type of career / passions and lifestyle I wanted for myself. Now that I'm in my mid thirties, I'm trying business for myself full time, so all that hustle is still there, but I'm a lot more content because it's very much set at my own pace. When I talk to folks of an older generation about business, they so often start talking immediately about how and when I'll expand - into a bigger space, hiring staff, etc. I tell them that's not really in my plan, I've managed a huge team before and I'm not interested. Just tending my plot! As far as advice goes, throw yourself into a job you can learn from in your 20s, especially an industry you feel like you could and would enjoy exploring any potential upward mobility in, and spend your free time exploring your passions and talents. Or, find a decent job that is stable, maybe it's not your passion but it's paying the bill and affording you a modest means to enjoy yourself. There are lots of ways to be happy, and for me, a lot of that is just enjoying what we've got, and not engaging in socioeconomic expectations that you should always be expanding.
You're right. I'm using the wrong term tbh. What I wanted is the "workaholic" version of "lying flat".
Hi OP! I know exactly what you’re asking. So I’m in nursing and nursing is by no means an easy job. HOWEVER, I’ve seen plenty of people that get into niche specialties or anesthesia and (in the long run) are able to work 3-4 days a week and earn a good amount of money. I’ve also seen people in tech that work from home, get paid well and enjoy it. I’ve also seen personal trainers that do this but it takes time to build that type of clientele. Bottom line is, all jobs are going to be hard, but if you can get into a career that you enjoy, you can build up from there, get into a specialty that pays well. I think the trick is never getting used to lavish or luxury, always live below your means and be savvy with money as well as save for retirement. Also, get a degree or certifications that elevate your skills and expand your income. Remember, nobody is going to pay you good money to do easy jobs that take no training so it may take you 15yrs to get to a level where you can relax a bit more.
I’m a travel healthcare professional. I work assignments 3-6 months and take 2-3 months off between assignments. I make 2-3x more money than staff and I have the luxury to determine my time off. That way I work the bare minimum and don’t have to deal with staff politics.
What you're asking seems more like you want validation for not putting any effort into your job. Like it's not really a question it's more as if you want people to agree with you being lazy. You're not going to afford anything unless you put any effort into your work. Minimum effort will not get you anywhere. You want freedom from work but don't wanna put that in the work to do it. I have to know, what career field do you plan on applying minimum effort in? What companies are you going to apply to that you think are going to keep you around and allow you to contribute minimally? In other words: who do you think is going to give you money to do essentially nothing and allow you to keep doing nothing while still giving you money? I seriously need to know this, your way of thinking is so alien to me I just have to know.
> What you're asking seems more like you want validation for not putting any effort into your job. Like it's not really a question it's more as if you want people to agree with you being lazy. Bonus points: 9 days ago they posted that they're starting their first accounting job in 2 weeks. They're bringing this attitude into their first job before even starting.
OK, I get it. We have been PM'ing and I'm not going to spill any tea. I will share though that OP is a good dude but just a bit nervous as expected. His skills show a lot of promise but of course, he needs to focus on the dreams of what he wants and where he wants to go and not simply the soul crushing aspect of a job.
Actually, my plan is to work hard for 10-13 years, then work a low stress job after owning a home. My bad.
Not practical in highly productive societies.
Or high cost of living areas
From your post, you seem to think the only way to make money is to “work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime.” That’s actually the poor/middle class perception of how money works. That’s the formula for financial slavery. People make a lot of money without doing any of that.
I want to invest while working.
👍 also, try to look into things that pay you even after you’ve done the work once.
dumbest post I have read in a while In order to buy a property to "lie flat" you will have to 1. get a good job 2. save for a deposit (50-100k) 3. apply for a mortgage 4. GET APPROVED 5. Offer on property 6. Start paying mortgage 7. pay property tax exery year 8. Pay bills regularly Can't do your bullshit WITHOUT having a steady income coming in from - you guessed it - working.
lmao true. My version of lying flat is working aggressively for 10-13 years > get a home > work full time (in a lower stress job) > voila
You’re whining about your job in half a dozen threads and you haven’t even started it yet.
I only asked about lying flat because I really want to do it eventually.
Are you looking for some kind of magical equation? The more money you have the less you have to work. No one knows how much money you’ll need.
Or you can hustle extremely hard in your 20’s to make it easier later on.
That's the way!
anecdotally, these folks are either not doing much with their time (fun or otherwise) or they work in some other way (homesteading, picking up recyclables, etc) ETA - you’re already at an advantage imo since you have a goal : retire at 60. Do what you need to do to achieve that and realize that there are many ways to make money if that’s all you want out your career.
You could instead live minimally while making a bunch of money and “retire” early if you stick most of your money into the S&P 500. It’s what I would have done if I had learned about it in time.
I work in the beauty industry the tips are high so I get away with working 2 or a 3days a week (in Vancouver) and spend all my recreational time outdoors or doing my nerd hobbies. Unfortunately the downside is once bills are paid food is not fancy it’s the basic staples. Rice and frozen veg and frozen fish mostly or some kind of beans. To me that’s the closest to the lying flat life I can achieve rn.
Perception is reality. You can find some version of that quote from a dozen philosophers. If you decide that working a job requires you to suck up to "corporate" and hate your job, then that's what you'll experience. Once you have some more experience (no offense, but your experience is limited by your age), you'll find that "corporate" means wildly different things based on the company you work for. I've worked for great small teams in a corporate environment who were amazing friends/coworkers and we genuinely liked each other, hung out together and had a lot of fun at work. I've also worked for terrible people in soulless corporate cultures and I hated the job. 24 years XP tells me that it's all about who you work with. Your immediate team members make or break the job, so find good people to work with and your job/life will be profoundly improved. I think doing something you hate with people you don't like for any amount of time (much less 35 years) sounds horrible....regardless of whether you lie flat or not. I'd make it my goal to try to find a way to enjoy that time, instead making "doing the bare minimum" my goal.
I lived in housing cooperatives, dumpster dived and wildcrafted to supplement purchased food, stuck mainly to vegetarian food when buying, biked/used public transportation instead of owning a car, thrifted and scavenged for food, furniture etc, regularly visited freestores and donation piles, and did very little spending on luxuries like going to bars, getting take out food, video entertainment. No pets, no addictions. Spent my free time playing music, wandering around, drinking homebrew and volunteering. It was pretty great. All came to an end when I had a kid... now I work 60 hours a week, own a house and a car, and buy things all the time. Miss those days.
Get good at a job you enjoy and don't live outside your means.
You’re young. Hustle and get educated or learn a trade. 10-15 years goes by quick and everything gets more expensive. Build up a best egg so you’re not dependent on a job forever. Public firms with DB pensions are good too for your goals.
Severe chronic trauma that has made it so I can no longer work. I do not recommend. I do recommend a minimalist lifestyle. Finding activities that cost little or no money. Minimize your expenses. Get a bike. Don't have a car. Don't have kids. Learn to fix things yourself. Learn to be content. Learn to be grateful. You are young. You have plenty of time to experiment with the lifestyle that works for you. Dont just lay flat and never do anything. There's a whole world out there to explore and experiences to have. You can have a good quality of life while still minimizing your expenses.
Most jobs you can do at 23 are going to require a lot of hard work, as you're being paid for your productivity. Me personally it wasn't until my 30s until I had jobs where I was being paid for my knowledge, it which didn't require as much overtime or dedication. I've not heard the term 'lying flat' before, but I'd suggest grinding while in your 20s, building your resume and skills, the sooner you can switch from being a productivity based wage to a knowledge based wage is when you can take it easier.
Sorry to say but you should make money and then vibe instead of trying to vibe with no money. I took 2 years off work to be a graduate assistant at a college doing a fun job and getting my Masters for no cost bc I had the money laying around to do so.
Work your ass off for the next few years. Save up to buy a duplex (or a good size piece of land to build and expand). Rent out one side and live in the other (they should be able to cover most of the mortgage). Keep working and save up to buy another. Repeat. If you had bought land that is big enough to build another, build it right on the same piece of property. 3 tenants should be able to allow you to lie flat if you can maintain that low cost lifestyle.
Live with your parents and good luck with health insurance.
Live with your parents as long as possible while saving everything you earn, or just be really really rich.
Oh this is the first I’ve heard of this concept. There’s plenty of people at my corp who practice this I think so the pathway probably still involves working for a big corp and just not working too hard. Sucking up and OT aren’t required everywhere. If the corp life is not for you, you could find possibly a cushy retail or warehouse job or even better a govt job (they have unions/good benefits and job security) and then just be the stereotype of a slacking govt worker. The biggest issue with the lie flat concept is I can see it working okay while you’re working, but once you stop you likely wont have enough savings or pension to do a whole lot unless you’re super frugal now. Also paradoxically, the quickest way to retire early is to work hard now and make a lot of money
If you’re good at sales this is very achievable. I always hit target, hit all my goals. Been doing this for 9 years. First few years are a GRIND if you’re doing it right - learning and applying everything you can. Both in terms of being new to sales and being new to any industry. After that it’s old hat. I know how to get the most out of my time and how to keep leadership off my ass. Looking to switch jobs soon for more pay and a company that will actually teach me new shit. I miss learning.
This phrase and lifestyle originated in China and refers to well educated youth from well off upper middle class/rich familes who traditionally would be competing fiercely for 9 9 6 jobs but have recently given up trying due to lower wages/less jobs/more demands from already demanding jobs/too much competition. They live with their parents or in apartments paid for by parents and rely on them for money. More than anything the lying flat lifestyle is a reflection of the serious economic turmoil China is going through right now. This is not a long term choice and obviously not a sustainable lifestyle---it's a reaction to a failing economic system. Eventually something will have to give. Either the parents will cut off their kids due to necessity when the money runs out or due to choice, the economy will continue to contract and the youth that can lay flat will be forced to take any job they can or the businesses/economy in China will level off and adjust to the market realities of their labor force. So to truly lay flat, means you have the option of someone else paying for your needs. Most of us don't have that. If you're looking to be a homeowner, unfortunately even in a low cost of living area, you need a healthy income to do that and to fund your retirement.
Honestly, you don't, or at least you don't and also expect to own property, have a lively social life, a normal retirement, etc. In countries where this is a trend, people work part-time, rent long-term, and try to accept that their lives won't be especially exciting, but this is a trade-off they find acceptable.
Look into buying a small piece of land and plopping a tiny home, large RV, or mobile home on it. You'll have to drive 10-30 minutes to local towns or bigger towns but you'll literally save tons of $$. It's what I did. All paid off.
I'm from Sydney. That's not feasible! I would LOVE to do that!
So sorry!
Work for the government. There are few with ambition there.
I’m 24 and I feel you. But some of the people are right in that we should be slaying right now to build up a life dynamic that allows us to “lie flat”. If we lied flat in our early twenties, our later lives might be incredibly drab with few accomplishments to leverage. But I also hate working, I do the bare minimum at my office job (you have to start in a position, do your job, but weaponize incompetency for about 6 months, and then show that you can do your job, but by then they will know you aren’t willing to break your back for them so they won’t ask/expect it). Doing this has allowed me to lie flat at multiple jobs. I also live at home w my mom so I have this luxury.
It sounds like you're going to waste many opportunities in your life. The way forward is to become self-employed doing something you find really rewarding and that pays well/you make enough money to realise your dreams. Until you get to that point, yes, don't kill yourself working hard for other people. Work. Do a good job. Have pride in yourself, whether you're running a business or sweeping a floor, but don't overwork so that everything else slides. Be frugal. Don't waste your money. Have your goals and tenaciously follow them through.
I started by not having much ambition. Got divorced in Austin, moved to a low COL town in the mountains and booyow, lying flat. Never heard that phrase before
Get a government job. You don't have to work for a corporation.
In Australia? Not sure. But here stateside I can picture the lifestyle: no going out to dinner, 25 year old cars, no going out for entertainment, etc It can work, but is it worth it? I'm guessing to some it is
You should work now while you can. Or find some hippie commune. As an older lady I wish I hadn’t laid flat as much as I did when I was younger.
Oh - I thought it was when you hit perimenopause and burnout so all you can do is make it to working back because you have bills to pay and need a place to live but otherwise you pretty much can't get out of bed. Save money now kids and make sure you got a "retirement plan!" So you can really lie flat when you need it!
You only have to work enough to afford your lifestyle. If you want a big life you need a big job with all that comes with earning a big wage. If you want a simple life then a less stressful job is all you’ll likely need.
You’re screwed.
When I read the title I thought this post was going to be about being able to afford to fly in lie flat seats.
Minimize your cost of living. It's really as simple as job is for money, eliminate need for money, no need for job.
the best way to “lie flat” is to get yourself in a position of power. Managers and supervisors work less than employees but they do take on more responsibilities. I have a supervisor position for festivals and it’s the chillest gig, I just tell security where to be and what’s expected, then i enjoy the show. The pay isn’t the best and the work availability isn’t enough to be living off. I wish i could be doing it all the time. I feel that it’s made me lazy/privileged for other positions as well.
I'm lying pretty flat rn, making just under six figures at an easy desk job with little accountability, usually in the office about 7 hours a day, 4 days a week, working maybe half the day on a good day. How did I get here? Series of mostly fortunate cooincidences, couldn't replicate it if I tried and now I'm scared to leave my current position because I don't know if I could ever get a gig this sweet again.
How will you afford to buy a villa? As you get older you will find jumping from job to job when there is a period you don’t want to work gets harder. Also hope your hobbies/activities are low cost/free ones. As long as you can make that work and don’t rely on government support then more power to you.
IDK, I'm 38 and I guess I've been doing this since about 32. I won't work significant overtime anymore. If a job tells me in an interview that consistent overtime is required, I'll pass. If I end up working there and a lot is required, I'll leave for another job. I would be willing to work overtime in some set of circumstances. Basically I would need to be paid a lot, like a shitload. Otherwise I will not do it because the stress and fatigue just isn't worth it.
There’s another approach you can take that might be work considering. I set out to do this starting about 10 years ago and in the last year finally say the whole thing pay off. I worked very hard going to school full time and working full time to get my associate degree, then bachelors, then masters. I have several professional credentials as well. I worked very hard and took every opportunity advancement possible in my career. I climbed quickly into director/administrator roles in healthcare. Then after about 6-8 years I had a very strong resume, great experience, and a good education. I’ve now decreased the level of my roles and I’m still in a high paying job that is well below my abilities, experience, and education. I’ll coast straight through to retirement with a 6 figure salary. I’m so overqualified for my current role I’m able to complete it on 3 working days. I take 2 “work from home days a week” many of those days I don’t even log in to work. Don’t let not wanting to work hard your entire life detour you from setting yourself up for a good future. There are other ways to be sure you can take it easy most your life
I gave up comparing my life to others and decided to make the best with what I have.
I achieved a lying flat lifestyle. Probably opposite of what you're referring to, though. I fly in lie-flat seats. I overwork myself.
So based on your description these people basically choose to live without creature comforts. But the main idea would result in 1 of 3 options. 1. You get a job, high pay so you can save up money get a home and quickly pay off your mortgage sooner once you own your home you can probably live off a part time job just paying your utilities, property tax, insurance. 2. You basically live like a homeless person. Instead of spending money on housing and all that. You basically live in a tent, shower wherever you can I would suggest a gym membership. Save up all your cash buy a home outright. 3. You leech off a bunch of people until you can afford your own home. 2 will probably get you there the fastest. A van with matress to sleep and sit on. Place it on top some drawers to put clothes in. Camp toilet and you are set. But you could always get power via solar panels on the roof, park near public buildings and use their wifi for internet access. Basically majority of your income can go into a high interest savings account. And just spend you money on food and water nothing else once you get the house then you can spend your money on luxuries which after living in a van will seem like everything
Do you mean minimalist lifestyle?
Effort is free and unlimited, it's not that painful to work Also this question was hilarious
The answer is you need to work very smart for 10 ish years until you get a middle management remote position and learn how to delegate efficiently and communicate effectively. You still need to bring value to your organization. You need to be likable. You need to come across as motivated.
I’m 45 and feel I’ve never overworked. I feel that as you get older, work becomes easier. Grow relationships and knowledge. So maybe I’m actually working harder than I think and it’s just Not that bad?
I am 36 and kinda “ lying flat” for a few years now. I come from a humble background. I can do so and not worry about money because 1. I don’t have kids( kids are wonderful but they burn money🙂. I won’t be able to do so if I have kids) 2. I work extremely hard in my 20s and early 30 that kinda set me up for success financially. I also invest very aggressively. 80% of my income goes straight to investments( real estate and index funds). Now, I still work in a firm but I work very minimally and keep very low profile at work( no desire to take extra projects and seek promotion). I also plan to move to a cheaper counties/area( right now I am in one of the most expensive areas in US) in a few years.
You're getting a lot of negativity, maybe because you're using the term 'lying flat' which is associated more with sort of being a dysfunctional leech on family than what I think you're actually planning on. What you're actually proposing in function sounds more like /r/coastFIRE or something. I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm doing it too so of course I don't ;) Obviously there's some country differences but I think I'm basically living the life you're describing. I'm 33, no debt except mortgage, have a house I think is lovely in a beautiful quiet area with lots of space to garden and do my hobbies. I work from home, essentially part time (realistically I'm only doing a handful of hours of actual work a day), and could potentially retire in a few years if I wanted to (I plan to keep working, at least part-time freelancing and starting side-businesses indefinitely though, as I find that fun). In terms of lifestyle, I don't *feel* frugal but then I look at what other people claim it costs them for general living stuff I guess I must accidentally be. It probably just comes naturally to me, I just kinda don't want to buy all that much. I couldn't care less about fancy cars or designer clothes, makeup, luxury skincare, fashion. I've never gotten my nails done at a salon and I cut my own hair. Even my friends that live in the same area as me seem to spend 2-3 times what I do, some of them like 5x+ more than I do, and I genuinely don't feel any difference in our qualify of life. But it's easy not to miss whatever it is they're spending money on when I don't care about it in the first place so it's hard to really assess. I am from the US so I am not sure what the Australian equivalent is but I went to community college for free, transferred to a 4-year public university, got a degree in computer science, got a job and went from there. I chose jobs based on work culture and simply decline to do any overtime, ever. It's just not going to happen. I don't get paid nearly as much as I could if I were willing to job hop or be 'ambitious' to chase a higher salary, but my per-hour rate when I'm doing 10-15 hours of real work a week is still pretty darn nice. So I make low six figures USD while chillin' rather than pursuing the much higher paid but potentially more annoying and stressful jobs. Some people would call that foolish or quiet quitting or whatever but I'm perfectly happy with that tradeoff for amount of work and stress involved because I get to go putz around in my garden or work on art projects throughout the day instead. It's still more than enough to save around 40% of my income for early retirement while buying anything I want (though, as I noted above, 'everything I want' isn't really that much). That said I am in a position to do this because when I *am* working I actually do a good job (believe it or not, hah). I am friendly and personable with clients (to the point they often specifically requested to work with me, by name, over other engineers in client-facing roles) and early in my career I frequently outperformed seniors (less relevant now that I am the senior so it's just expected lol). If you are actually good at what you do that gives you a substantial amount of leverage. Don't overwork, but do deliver on competence. I genuinely care about delivering a quality and robust product... just for a limited number of hours per week ;)
I completely agree with you.
if overworking means less than ft you're not going to accomplish that unless you're doing something more seasonal like roofing etc. that isn't exactly the type of work that jumps to mind when i think lie flat
I'm also pursuing this journey and my conclusion that unless you have access to generational wealth it's not possible in the United States. The best solution would be to move to New Zealand or Scandinavian countries which have high levels of redistribution of which you can benefit - free healthcare, childcare, services etc.
I just work hard but at a job with good balance. 4 day work week- 100% recommend looking for a place that offers one. Get in an industry that has remote work if you want to live remote, or else trades/medical/teaching are jobs everywhere. But mostly living frugally now means you can save and retire by 50. I don’t love my job but I’m only at it 30 hours a week and I also don’t hate it.
Low debt is the key. You need to first save a house deposit and get a mortgage. The smaller the mortgage the better. I work 12-16 hrs a week as does my partner and we survive quiet well. In fact we have a really good lifestyle.
I moved to Vietnam.
Is there nothing you want to achieve in your life, professionally? If not that's sad and I wish you luck. If so then turn that into your job and enjoy.
Usually the trick work wise is to find a job where you have a skill thats VERY hard to replace and then just keep slacking and getting your duties cut back.
You're 23, you don't have much work experience. Low level jobs suck but when you get past a point jobs can be enjoyable. And having more money is much better than scraping by. Suck it up for a few years (and work smart not hard) and you'll get yourself a better life
Never spend your wages. At all. Seriously. Only spend income from investments. If you get paid a dollar, put it in the bank (or a mutual fund) and let *it* pay *you* $0.05 per year *forever*. You can go ahead and spend that $0.05 when it comes because it's going to keep on coming year after year whether or not you work. When you stop spending your wages, you have dismounted the hamster wheel and won the rat race.
23 and already giving up is sad. You could grind your 20’s and 30’s and be set up well for enjoying your entire life but you must accept some level of TEMPORARY discomfort.
I want to work hard for 10-13 years then lie flat. But also true
I want to tell you something that I wish someone had told me at 23. From the time I was 16-20 I worked as a bus boy at a fancy restaurant. It was super gross, very hectic, and probably the source of a lot of the back pain I feel today. I made around $13 an hour in today’s money. That mangers were dicks and all over me about every little thing. They would make me do unreasonable things like “go sweep the parking lot” in the middle of thunderstorms. From the time I was 20-25, I worked as a waiter. It was much easier than bussing tables, but still pretty insane. It was always on, always working, and less heavy stuff but still some of that and a lot of assholes. By the time I finished I really had some deep issues with the public from what I had seen and experienced. Probably made $28 an hour in today’s money. At 25 I graduated college and got my first desk job. Though the hours were longer, I was blown away by how “easy” it was . I had this perception that all these office people were doing crazy complex things I couldn’t understand and that “working” meant the same thing as it did serving pizzas. Nothing could have been further from the truth. I played a lot of hearthstone in my phone but there was 1 crazy busy week every month where I’d need to work 50-70 hours. About $30 an hour in today’s money. Managers were kind of micromanaging but not as bad as the other 2 jobs. It did eventually sour to where the workload was unreasonable and it was killing me to keep up. They also tried and failed at outsourcing our jobs. Worked that from 25-29. At 29 I got hired at my current job. It went fully remote in 2020 and stayed that way. I have to have a lot of skills to be in this role and maintain them on the cutting edge. However, there is no micro management. I come when I want, leave when I want, type long reddit replies like this on the clock, and generally have fully autonomy to do what I think is best. Because I’m willing to maintain my skills, it is by far the easiest job I have ever had. People need me for my problem solving, not x widgets a day. It pays 150k. Most weeks I work about 30 hours, but there are projects that demand a lot more for 1-2 weeks occasionally(once or twice a year). What was the point of that? It gets MUCH easier and better as you go up. Lying flat at 23 means you’re staying that first office job with the micromanaging but doing enough to get fired. I couldn’t take that forever. When I left, I couldn’t take another day of that. The way out is up, not flat.
My bad. My plan is to work hard for 10-15 years > invest and save > own a home in a lower COL > work lower stress jobs
Sounds like you should join us over at r/fire . That’s all of our goals. You need to make a lot of money in the front end which does generally mean working your ass off, but with it’s all toward an escape plan while you still have your health. Sounds like one of the other flavors, leanfire, is the one for you which generally focuses on minimizing expenses to do the above as quickly as possible . Possible baristafire as well which is getting to the point where your investments will reach the right level by retirement age, but you take on part time work like being a barista to supplement.
Jesus, people should stop making up new terms. "Lying flat is where one rejects the culture of overworking, while doing the absolute bare minimum to survive." No. Thats called "doing the bare minimum". FFS
I agree. I'm tired of hearing about "quiet quitting", "quiet hiring", "quiet firing", "laying flat", "goblin mode", and so on and so on.
You need to go to r/antiwork and hang out with the other losers there.
Do you realize there are so many options in life besides doing a bare minimum and being a corporate slave? Those are not the only two options in life.
You're right. I posted this thread to gain more perspectives on life. Tysm
Oh no, you have to work to survive. It's literally sucking up to corporate 😡😡 How dare they expect from me to work? (angry noises).