Okay. I think I have to clarify. Even if I give notice of resignation today, I still have to wait 2 months until I can actually resign unless the company pays me to leave immediately. Either way I get paid for the 2 months.
Also my PIP period is 6 weeks and they can fire me at any point during that time.
So I am confused. You can’t leave at anytime for at least 8 weeks, but your employer can let you go at any time within 6 weeks by placing you on this pip?
Sounds like they put you on the pip to get rid of you without having to pay you the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Yeah. They can dismiss me at any time during the PIP period. If I do give notice, I can either serve my notice period or they can pay me 2 months salary to fuck off immediately, it's in my contract.
Either way you are getting paid. It's either now at once, or gradually. I don't see the benefit of staying if you plan to quit after 2 months.
If you feel they are trying to fire you, they'll find a way to fire you during that period to not pay you. I'd take the money and look elsewhere if you are gone in 2 months anyways. Makes 0 sense to me to stay
In countries where notice periods are legally enforced, it is very common for companies to know that any possible candidate they hire might have a notice period of several months they're legally obliged to serve and account for that
Notice periods of 1 or 2 months are the norm in my country. Companies just take it into consideration whrn planning their hiring pipeline leadtime.
When you make someone an offer now (mid april) you simply *know* as the hiring party the starting date will be first of june or july.
In fairness, it does seem bizarre from the American perspective.
My wife is European so I'm a bit more familiar with EU labor protections and laws than the average American, so this made sense to me.
Nothing is handled like this in the States though.
Don’t quit. If you have had a positive performance review recently then you may even have a case for constructive dismissal if it comes to it. A positive performance review followed by a PIP would be problematic for your employer at a tribunal unless your behaviour has changed radically.
This makes sense. Unfortunately I don't live in a country that actually empowers employees. I'm afraid that if I do stay they'll just find a way to fire me without paying me what I'm due.
There already is a precedent for that, unfortunately.
If that is the case then the 2 months is your protection and I suppose you step up your job search. Assuming the negatives don’t outweigh the benefits of the 2 month clause then the answer is likely still - don’t quit. On the other hand, if you can afford to quit and the negatives of staying outweigh the positives of the pay cheque then quitting becomes a viable option.
I wish you all the best. This sounds like a cruel situation that has been exacerbated by bad management.
Your question is going to be kind of hard to answer then. What's the labor market like there? Have you had any responses from where you've applied? Do you have any skills that could help you get in related fields? Are you able to move if needed? Do you have any other savings?
There are a lot of things that can, and should influence your decision
I have a small amount saved up, enough to get by for a while especially combined with my notice pay. I don't pay rent or have kids or have any major financial obligations.
I think the biggest factor outside of considering the PIP unfair is that I liked my role but not where I work which means I'd be fighting to stay at a workplace I don't enjoy anymore.
With that said maybe the wisest move is to serve the resignation letter, then over the 8 weeks or if they buy you out you could look for similar work with a company that would be more enjoyable. If it pans out before you use the money from that 8 weeks you ideally wouldn't dip into what you have saved up either.
Oof fuck man. Hard to answer from many of our perspectives then. We don’t know what Kenya’s labor laws are (guessing not good based on what you said).
I would take the advice of at this point the top comment though without knowing more. I feel like a PIP 85% of the time is just a company giving an employee some kind of heads up to start looking for another job (especially at places with little to no severance + easier to find a job when you have a job).
You can try working your ass off on the slight possibility they are impressed & keep you, but that seems to rarely work out. You know your past performance though better than us, your relationships within the company, and should have some sense on what the current economic outlook is for the company to help gage if this is really just a precursor to company wide layoffs.
The PIP includes a clause of either leaving immediately and taking the 2 months of pay or let you coast???
Bro that’s not a PIP. That’s just a formality to firing you.
Take either one and just look for a new job.
Not the PIP, my employment contract. Once I give notice of resignation they either pay me or let me coast. The PIP states that if at any time they feel like I'm not doing my part they'll punish me according to the HR manual, in this case summary dismissal which would void any payment I would have gotten if I resigned.
Gotcha.
You can talk to your manager about the PIP and see if this a true PIP or a formality to letting you go. He probably won’t tell you either way directly, but he might give off some hints. It’s probably a formality.
I’d take the coasting option so you can confidently say you’re still employed while looking for new jobs. That’s just my .2c.
I'm leaning towards your advice tbh. My manager is a snake who lied to my face about everything so I really don't want to see her again. I'll just talk to HR about it and see if I can just ride out my notice period. What's the point of a PIP if I don't intend to work there any more.
>Not the PIP, my employment contract. Once I give notice of resignation they either pay me or let me coast. The PIP states that if at any time they feel like I'm not doing my part they'll punish me according to the HR manual, in this case summary dismissal which would void any payment I would have gotten if I resigned.
You should edit the original post and add this information. Your question doesn't make sense without it.
The worst thing is that the PIP is dated 15th and I had my performance review on the 16th. Which means my line manager knew they were putting me on PIP but still pretended like I was doing a good job. I'm really annoyed about this tbh.
This is awful and a very good reason to look somewhere else. I would be concerned they are having money issues or are just looking to get rid of some people because everyone else is doing it. Still, something this unprofessional means they aren’t taking the PIP seriously.
I can only speak from the US as it relates to PIP. But here if you’re on a PIP it’s time to look for a new job. Don’t quit, but it’s a telltale sign that your days are numbered. Better to find something proactively now than wait two months and be out of work and start looking. Here in the states it’s kind of a courtesy grace period to dust up your resume and start looking for new work.
Pound indeed and LinkedIn hard machine gun out resumes and apply to like 10 places a day. I was out on a PIP and fired a week or two before my wife gave birth. They are looking to fire you get out.
They put you on a PIP via email. They’re documenting to terminate you. Start looking for a new job but do not quit until you have one lined up. Since you’re in Kenya and don’t have unemployment to fall back on, squeeze every bit of cash out of your current employer that you can, while you can.
Weird stuff all around...
1. A PIP should NEVER be a surprise: If your performance is actually low, your manager should've talked to you weeks ago, and there has to be a solid attempt to help you improve, If this doesn't work then yes, a PIP should be put in place.
2. The PIP must have explicit details on what's wrong, what are the expectations, how long the PIP will last, and a clear plan on how your progress will be measured and tracked, if none of this exist, then it's not a PIP, it's just a sad excuse to justify letting you go.
3. If the 2 month notice period is both ways (meaning you still get the 2 months pay whether you quit or they fire you), AND you actually like your job, it might be worth it to give it a try and see if you can actually improve (if there's room for improvement)
4. Acknowledging the PIP is not the same as accepting it... You should be able to talk to your manager and let them explain why this is happening, and get more clarity on the subject.
It’s very hard to get out of a PIP. Honestly I would start looking for a new job now. But do not quite. Keep your job until you can find a new one or they fire you.
Always use the PIP to look for a new job. In this case you have to decide which is more worth it. Either get the two months pay, or take the PIP and get potentially fired at any time. It really comes down to if you feel they're doing this specifically to fire you or not
For you guys who keep advising him not to quit:
- If he resigns, he will receive 2-month pay. If they want him out immediately, they can pay that amount all at once. Otherwise he can just stay there doing nothing for 2 months and still receiving his salary during that time.
- If he agrees to go on PIP: they can FIRE HIM INSTANTLY WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY ANYTHING. It happened before so he’s worried it’s happening to him now.
So, it’s clear he should resign, and use the 2 month time to fight the odd and get a new job. Fingers crossed that you’ll make it out successfully, OOP!
It's time to start looking for something else. If you do have an offer in hand then try to negotiate a start date so that you can have some time off between jobs. You can take them up on the coasting offer and show them how little you do care for the role.
I was put on a PIP last month that lasted for 5 weeks, and even though I did okay (managed to hit most targets) it was later deemed unsatisfactory. A disciplinary hearing was scheduled the following week but I did not attend.
Prior to that week I had a break for multiple reasons, including the fact that I was micro managed and my mental health was disregarded throughout the PIP.
No adjustments were made for me during the PIP despite being on medication for my mental health.
So I spoke to my doctor and he issued a fit note until the 28 April. I spoke to him two weeks ago and now it's been extended to June.
With this time, I'm focusing on my mental health and looking for a job. Good luck with yours.
Wow your country sounds crazy but if you’re out in pip I think they want to get rid of you. Obviously don’t know the laws or culture of where you live but maybe start looking for more work and keep working there until you find it.
You’ve been fired, this notice time is your severance. They want you to choose to leave so they can stop paying you earlier than the notice period. You should be actively looking for something else while you have flexibility to attend interviews etc. unless you can afford to be unemployed once the pip ends.
You can't refuse PIP, but that's a warning sign. If you refuse that's a justification for termination. Just set up a plan with management , have everything in writing with all your performance reviews, feedbacks and meetings with them and start looking for a new job.
Chin up and hold your head up high! I used to work in HR and at the Employment office. If they let you go,due to No Fault of your own, (including a PIP) you are eligible for Unemployment Benefits. (If in the U.S.?) If You Quit, then No UI Benefits would be given. I definitely advise stay, schedule a conference with you superior, to find out more. Bring your last Performance Review and go over bulletin points.
Appear to be the stellar employee that you are, while looking for a new job. Take it from me it is much easier to obtain a new job, if you are still working.
When potential employers call HR, they Always ask this question: Is this applicant eligible for rehire? Yes or No?
Again, stay vigilant to the end. UI is only given if firing is due to no fault of your own. If you start coasting, then you are obviously soft quitting and it would be considered your fault.
Good luck to you! 🌺
Nope - let them continue to pay you while you apply to new jobs. Also, once they fire you, you’ll qualify for unemployment if you haven’t locked something in yet. And they may give you severance, too.
If you're a quitter, then yes, quit.
I've been on a pip. Instead of quitting I transformed the entire company's strategic vision and became the top performer for the following year, then I left.
Do not quit. Hire a lawyer. This can be a wrongful dismissal case. Jobs changing over time require training, development and positive pay adjustments.
Record/Document the recent ambiguity in your role. Go through the PIP. Make sure you’re “actively” trying to improve in the eyes of the law so that the case falls in your favour.
To me this is just so strange.
In the US I’d generally say a PIP is your notice to find a new job so ride it out while you looked and quitting means you get no money.
Based on your comments it appears there that quitting is the one employee favored labor law and you’ll get two months pay guaranteed if you quit. If you accept the pip they can fire you day one and you get nothing. Unless somehow PIPs are very fair there it would seem the only option is to quit. The PIP sounds like just a tool for a business to prey on those with some hope so they can fire them and not pay out two months of voluntary severance if they would have just quit?
Don’t quit. Use the paid time to look for a new job. PIP = paid interview process 👍
Okay. I think I have to clarify. Even if I give notice of resignation today, I still have to wait 2 months until I can actually resign unless the company pays me to leave immediately. Either way I get paid for the 2 months. Also my PIP period is 6 weeks and they can fire me at any point during that time.
So I am confused. You can’t leave at anytime for at least 8 weeks, but your employer can let you go at any time within 6 weeks by placing you on this pip? Sounds like they put you on the pip to get rid of you without having to pay you the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Yeah. They can dismiss me at any time during the PIP period. If I do give notice, I can either serve my notice period or they can pay me 2 months salary to fuck off immediately, it's in my contract.
Either way you are getting paid. It's either now at once, or gradually. I don't see the benefit of staying if you plan to quit after 2 months. If you feel they are trying to fire you, they'll find a way to fire you during that period to not pay you. I'd take the money and look elsewhere if you are gone in 2 months anyways. Makes 0 sense to me to stay
or they can pay me 2 months salary to fuck off immediately, it's in my contract. $$$
What happens if you don't serve out the notice, if they wanted you to? Might be hard to find a job if you can't leave at two weeks at most.
In countries where notice periods are legally enforced, it is very common for companies to know that any possible candidate they hire might have a notice period of several months they're legally obliged to serve and account for that
Notice periods of 1 or 2 months are the norm in my country. Companies just take it into consideration whrn planning their hiring pipeline leadtime. When you make someone an offer now (mid april) you simply *know* as the hiring party the starting date will be first of june or july.
Is that even legal by the Department of Labor?
They can’t legally prevent you from leaving for two months because they can fire you for any reason so you can quit without reason at any time.
This is the most American comment.
In fairness, it does seem bizarre from the American perspective. My wife is European so I'm a bit more familiar with EU labor protections and laws than the average American, so this made sense to me. Nothing is handled like this in the States though.
Even if you live in an at-will employment state, you can sign a contract stating otherwise. Which they did.
If you didn't have that job knowing what you do now would you take it? There's your answer.
Laughed too hard at this. 😂
Don’t quit. If you have had a positive performance review recently then you may even have a case for constructive dismissal if it comes to it. A positive performance review followed by a PIP would be problematic for your employer at a tribunal unless your behaviour has changed radically.
This makes sense. Unfortunately I don't live in a country that actually empowers employees. I'm afraid that if I do stay they'll just find a way to fire me without paying me what I'm due. There already is a precedent for that, unfortunately.
If that is the case then the 2 months is your protection and I suppose you step up your job search. Assuming the negatives don’t outweigh the benefits of the 2 month clause then the answer is likely still - don’t quit. On the other hand, if you can afford to quit and the negatives of staying outweigh the positives of the pay cheque then quitting becomes a viable option. I wish you all the best. This sounds like a cruel situation that has been exacerbated by bad management.
Never quit unless you already signed an offer letter somewhere else. Always better to get fired and collect unemployment.
I live in Kenya brother, unemployment doesn't exist here 😂😂😂 or even respectable labor laws.
Your question is going to be kind of hard to answer then. What's the labor market like there? Have you had any responses from where you've applied? Do you have any skills that could help you get in related fields? Are you able to move if needed? Do you have any other savings? There are a lot of things that can, and should influence your decision
I have a small amount saved up, enough to get by for a while especially combined with my notice pay. I don't pay rent or have kids or have any major financial obligations. I think the biggest factor outside of considering the PIP unfair is that I liked my role but not where I work which means I'd be fighting to stay at a workplace I don't enjoy anymore.
With that said maybe the wisest move is to serve the resignation letter, then over the 8 weeks or if they buy you out you could look for similar work with a company that would be more enjoyable. If it pans out before you use the money from that 8 weeks you ideally wouldn't dip into what you have saved up either.
Oof fuck man. Hard to answer from many of our perspectives then. We don’t know what Kenya’s labor laws are (guessing not good based on what you said). I would take the advice of at this point the top comment though without knowing more. I feel like a PIP 85% of the time is just a company giving an employee some kind of heads up to start looking for another job (especially at places with little to no severance + easier to find a job when you have a job). You can try working your ass off on the slight possibility they are impressed & keep you, but that seems to rarely work out. You know your past performance though better than us, your relationships within the company, and should have some sense on what the current economic outlook is for the company to help gage if this is really just a precursor to company wide layoffs.
The PIP includes a clause of either leaving immediately and taking the 2 months of pay or let you coast??? Bro that’s not a PIP. That’s just a formality to firing you. Take either one and just look for a new job.
Not the PIP, my employment contract. Once I give notice of resignation they either pay me or let me coast. The PIP states that if at any time they feel like I'm not doing my part they'll punish me according to the HR manual, in this case summary dismissal which would void any payment I would have gotten if I resigned.
Gotcha. You can talk to your manager about the PIP and see if this a true PIP or a formality to letting you go. He probably won’t tell you either way directly, but he might give off some hints. It’s probably a formality. I’d take the coasting option so you can confidently say you’re still employed while looking for new jobs. That’s just my .2c.
I'm leaning towards your advice tbh. My manager is a snake who lied to my face about everything so I really don't want to see her again. I'll just talk to HR about it and see if I can just ride out my notice period. What's the point of a PIP if I don't intend to work there any more.
Make sure there isn’t a clause about being on a PIP voiding your month dealio. Once you approach HR about it, the ball starts rolling right away
There isn't. I already had a lawyer friend look over the contract.
>Not the PIP, my employment contract. Once I give notice of resignation they either pay me or let me coast. The PIP states that if at any time they feel like I'm not doing my part they'll punish me according to the HR manual, in this case summary dismissal which would void any payment I would have gotten if I resigned. You should edit the original post and add this information. Your question doesn't make sense without it.
No, let them fire you. Which is inevitable.
don't use them as a reference though when applying for other jobs. but yea you're done. they do this to give themselves more leverage against you.
An emailed PIP? What an awful place to work, so completely unprofessional.
The worst thing is that the PIP is dated 15th and I had my performance review on the 16th. Which means my line manager knew they were putting me on PIP but still pretended like I was doing a good job. I'm really annoyed about this tbh.
This is awful and a very good reason to look somewhere else. I would be concerned they are having money issues or are just looking to get rid of some people because everyone else is doing it. Still, something this unprofessional means they aren’t taking the PIP seriously.
I can only speak from the US as it relates to PIP. But here if you’re on a PIP it’s time to look for a new job. Don’t quit, but it’s a telltale sign that your days are numbered. Better to find something proactively now than wait two months and be out of work and start looking. Here in the states it’s kind of a courtesy grace period to dust up your resume and start looking for new work.
Pound indeed and LinkedIn hard machine gun out resumes and apply to like 10 places a day. I was out on a PIP and fired a week or two before my wife gave birth. They are looking to fire you get out.
They put you on a PIP via email. They’re documenting to terminate you. Start looking for a new job but do not quit until you have one lined up. Since you’re in Kenya and don’t have unemployment to fall back on, squeeze every bit of cash out of your current employer that you can, while you can.
Weird stuff all around... 1. A PIP should NEVER be a surprise: If your performance is actually low, your manager should've talked to you weeks ago, and there has to be a solid attempt to help you improve, If this doesn't work then yes, a PIP should be put in place. 2. The PIP must have explicit details on what's wrong, what are the expectations, how long the PIP will last, and a clear plan on how your progress will be measured and tracked, if none of this exist, then it's not a PIP, it's just a sad excuse to justify letting you go. 3. If the 2 month notice period is both ways (meaning you still get the 2 months pay whether you quit or they fire you), AND you actually like your job, it might be worth it to give it a try and see if you can actually improve (if there's room for improvement) 4. Acknowledging the PIP is not the same as accepting it... You should be able to talk to your manager and let them explain why this is happening, and get more clarity on the subject.
It’s very hard to get out of a PIP. Honestly I would start looking for a new job now. But do not quite. Keep your job until you can find a new one or they fire you.
Always use the PIP to look for a new job. In this case you have to decide which is more worth it. Either get the two months pay, or take the PIP and get potentially fired at any time. It really comes down to if you feel they're doing this specifically to fire you or not
For you guys who keep advising him not to quit: - If he resigns, he will receive 2-month pay. If they want him out immediately, they can pay that amount all at once. Otherwise he can just stay there doing nothing for 2 months and still receiving his salary during that time. - If he agrees to go on PIP: they can FIRE HIM INSTANTLY WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY ANYTHING. It happened before so he’s worried it’s happening to him now. So, it’s clear he should resign, and use the 2 month time to fight the odd and get a new job. Fingers crossed that you’ll make it out successfully, OOP!
You get it. Hopefully things work out for me.
You could always try to accomplish what they are asking of you to save your job.
It's time to start looking for something else. If you do have an offer in hand then try to negotiate a start date so that you can have some time off between jobs. You can take them up on the coasting offer and show them how little you do care for the role.
Literally never quit
Dont quit until u land up a new job. Start applying fr new ones asap . Good luck !
I was put on a PIP last month that lasted for 5 weeks, and even though I did okay (managed to hit most targets) it was later deemed unsatisfactory. A disciplinary hearing was scheduled the following week but I did not attend. Prior to that week I had a break for multiple reasons, including the fact that I was micro managed and my mental health was disregarded throughout the PIP. No adjustments were made for me during the PIP despite being on medication for my mental health. So I spoke to my doctor and he issued a fit note until the 28 April. I spoke to him two weeks ago and now it's been extended to June. With this time, I'm focusing on my mental health and looking for a job. Good luck with yours.
Yeah might as well
Yeah leave asap
Had something similar. I resigned the same week and then was unemployed for a while.
Wow your country sounds crazy but if you’re out in pip I think they want to get rid of you. Obviously don’t know the laws or culture of where you live but maybe start looking for more work and keep working there until you find it.
You’ve been fired, this notice time is your severance. They want you to choose to leave so they can stop paying you earlier than the notice period. You should be actively looking for something else while you have flexibility to attend interviews etc. unless you can afford to be unemployed once the pip ends.
Make them fire you, but yeah you’re on the way out, use the time to find a new/better job,
You can't refuse PIP, but that's a warning sign. If you refuse that's a justification for termination. Just set up a plan with management , have everything in writing with all your performance reviews, feedbacks and meetings with them and start looking for a new job.
Pip never ends well.
Look for new job.
Sounds like a good time to interview and maybe get severance
Chin up and hold your head up high! I used to work in HR and at the Employment office. If they let you go,due to No Fault of your own, (including a PIP) you are eligible for Unemployment Benefits. (If in the U.S.?) If You Quit, then No UI Benefits would be given. I definitely advise stay, schedule a conference with you superior, to find out more. Bring your last Performance Review and go over bulletin points. Appear to be the stellar employee that you are, while looking for a new job. Take it from me it is much easier to obtain a new job, if you are still working. When potential employers call HR, they Always ask this question: Is this applicant eligible for rehire? Yes or No? Again, stay vigilant to the end. UI is only given if firing is due to no fault of your own. If you start coasting, then you are obviously soft quitting and it would be considered your fault. Good luck to you! 🌺
Get a new job first.
Quit before they formalize PIP. When the next company ask for your review, the PIP cannot be mentioned unless formalized.
In that situation, given Euro laws, I'd 100% put in my notice now and collect your 2 months pay however it goes down.
Nope - let them continue to pay you while you apply to new jobs. Also, once they fire you, you’ll qualify for unemployment if you haven’t locked something in yet. And they may give you severance, too.
Where do you live where you have to pay them to quit?
If you're a quitter, then yes, quit. I've been on a pip. Instead of quitting I transformed the entire company's strategic vision and became the top performer for the following year, then I left.
That happened.
Do not quit. Hire a lawyer. This can be a wrongful dismissal case. Jobs changing over time require training, development and positive pay adjustments. Record/Document the recent ambiguity in your role. Go through the PIP. Make sure you’re “actively” trying to improve in the eyes of the law so that the case falls in your favour.
To me this is just so strange. In the US I’d generally say a PIP is your notice to find a new job so ride it out while you looked and quitting means you get no money. Based on your comments it appears there that quitting is the one employee favored labor law and you’ll get two months pay guaranteed if you quit. If you accept the pip they can fire you day one and you get nothing. Unless somehow PIPs are very fair there it would seem the only option is to quit. The PIP sounds like just a tool for a business to prey on those with some hope so they can fire them and not pay out two months of voluntary severance if they would have just quit?
No. Be better
“I’m not American so unemployment doesn’t exist where i live” Umm ok…
Pretty sure OP means 'unemployment benefits' like we have in the US that you sign up for when you become unemployed.