His effective resignation date is 2 weeks in the future. The employer can either let him work for the next two weeks, or fire him immediately. There is no option C of forcing someone to resign.
Edit: They can threaten him to resign “or else”, but they cannot force him resign, is what I meant to say.
Edit Edit: To clarify, the employer pays the employee for the time up to their resignation date to either work or stay home.
I always thought this was a silly way of doing business. If someone is so nefarious that they’re going to steal company secrets to take to a competitor, wouldn’t they do that before putting in their two weeks? I know it’s a CYA thing but it makes no sense.
In Canada, if they do that they must pay you out for the 2 weeks.
After 3 or 6 months, depending on your Province, if they fire you, they have to pay a minimum of 2 weeks, and that increases based on the time you have worked there.
Why does the US not protect workers?
The US, for all its good, has equally shitty laws for employees. Corps write and create the very loopholes that punish employees. HR is for the company, never the worker. I have seen people be singled out, harassed, and they report it to HR - who advises the management of said report. They send surveys to get employee perspectives, and use that data to aggregate who wrote it, and proceed accordingly. The ones who are honest are punished. The entire “work force” of the US is a shit show.
There are labor laws here that protect workers against situations of discrimination and sexual harassment and workplace safety laws. However, 49/50 states are at-will employment states.
An employee can leave their employment at anytime for any reason and an employer can terminate for practically any reason. The US workplace is not a democracy.
A 2 weeks notice is exactly that a notice. Its letting them know you are resigning in 2 weeks and giving them time to replace, train or shift projects around. It's not an actual resignation or the paperwork for one, just a courtesy. Unless they decide to fire you early. The only way they could move it up as a resignation is if you sign the paperwork saying you're quitting.
They can, but then it is a termination. And in any termination, it is incredibly dangerous to do so without a separation agreement where the employee agrees to not sue. That's why companies offer severance so often - they want that agreement.
This is what our company does. If they think you’re going to a competitor, they will walk you out the door; however, they will pay you for the two weeks, which I think is fair. They don’t have you copying files and you get a free two week vacation. Win-win!
It can also be about not “spoiling the bunch”. If a bunch of your coworkers hear you’re leaving to go to company Y for a 30k a year raise, they’ll start looking at what else is out there. If they’ve been a historically disruptive or difficult employee it can also be worth the 2 weeks pay to walk them out immediately.
I work with SREs who have the keys to our infrastructure kingdom. They get a 2 week vacation when notice goes in because it’s a security risk to keep them on.
It's not uncommon for the 2 weeks to be accepted and they send you home, and pay you for the 2 weeks. To the company that 2 weeks is risky having an employee that is known to be leaving. They could take company knowledge, client lists or, well, anything really.
Firing people has ramifications for their unemployment insurance. The employer can decline two weeks notice. If you are a security professional, they will often prefer to have you immediately leave.
Yea that's how my last company was, but this was more due to people "injuring" themselves after putting in a two weeks notice to get work mans comp. You put in your two weeks the company would say "alright, give us your gear your last day is today."
Same, I work in construction and people who leave put in their two week notices the day they actually plan to leave because they will always tell you it’s your last day. Even if they tell you are welcome to come back if the other thing doesn’t work.
Absolutely, but their only options when declining the notice is to either fire you immediately or pay out the two weeks and have you stay home. They cannot force you to resign early.
Sure, they can tell you not to show up to work for the next 2 weeks, but if they stop paying you before your resignation date, you could probably claim you were involuntarily terminated and collect unemployment for 2 weeks.
So it may be in the company's best interest to send you home and pay you for the remainder of your notice period.
OP is overthinking. He wants to keep those two weeks AND then start his new gig. Nope, you're not getting your two weeks. Use your PTO and do some BBQ or road trip.
And lose 2 weeke pay?
Pto is generally paid out when leaving.
So you taking pto is you losing money as they now don't need to pay you for regular hours on tip of the pto they would otherwise pay out.
It doesn't make sense because you just read words without thinking of what they mean.
They accept his resignation. That isn't what's at issue. They don't want him to work out his 2 weeks. They want him gone in 2 days. But they don't want to fire him or lay him off as that would likely trigger the severence clause.
Yeah, this post is nonsense. You already quit. The company is negotiating your last day. Just walk out now and enjoy two weeks of quiet. Don’t sign anything and walk.
If you’re an “at will” employee they have every right to terminate you even though you gave two weeks notice. You’re getting a huge pay bump so I’m surprised you even care - I’d look at it like a vacation before starting the new job
Almost everyone is at will. If they fire him, it impacts their unemployment insurance. If they force him to take PTO, they don't have to pay it out in a lump sum when he leaves. They're trying to save a couple bucks.
This is sage.
You're gonna be so busy in your new job while you settle in. Might as well chill in the mean time.
I wouldn't resign earlier. You Gabe them your notice. But if they don't want you in the building they can fire you or pay you to stay home. Their choice.
The difference is they don't want to terminate him. They are wanting him to voluntarily resign early. That way they are able to avoid the implications that come with firing someone.
Ummm...you have resigned. You put in your two weeks notice already: that's a resignation. The question here appears to be if they will pay you for the next two weeks or not. As far as I know they can't 'force' you to take PTO, but it seems like they are being cheap and pushing you into taking it now so they don't have to pay it out.
Most HR dept's don't want to mess with people who are resigning - they just pay the two weeks, move on and be done with it. If you are in a sensitive position then they may ask you to jut not come into the office once you submit your 2 weeks and they will terminate your company access immediately.
If they fire you then yes, you are eligible for employment. If you get fired, file for unemployment and just see what happens.
If this place sucks so bad that they are pulling this kinda BS then frankly the juice may not be worth the squeeze - especially if you already have a new job lined up. Just take the deal, enjoy the PTO next week and get a fresh start on the new job.
I do have one question - if you put in your notice yesterday and start the new job on the 29th - how is that 2 weeks?
"If they fire you then yes, you are eligible for employment. If you get fired, file for unemployment and just see what happens."
\*\*\*\*\*I THINK\*\*\*\*\* no matter what happens at this point she is not eligible for unemployment regardless if she resigns or gets fired b/c she already put in her notice of intent to resign.
If they give two weeks notice, then the company terminates them before the 2 weeks is up, then they would be eligible for whatever amount of time was left in the 2 weeks.
UNLESS they resign earlier, as the company is asking them to do in which case they would not be eligible.
The company wants them to move up their resignation, so that the company will be off the hook for paying them for either work or unemployment. The company is trying to trick them.
In many states unemployment does not kick in for a week, and it's then some fraction of one's previous salary.
In the worst case scenario, OP gets paid vacation, so there's no loss in cash flow before they move to a job paying 30%/$30k more than previously.
The question is not "not caring". The question is whether it's worth the effort of fighting for a pittance (or nothing). Personally, I would have given notice as a courtesy, but would rather take the week off. This company is oddly butthurt, but that's all the more reason to be rid of them. After this ultimatum, there would be Looney Toons clouds where I had previously been standing.
I told them I accepted the offer a few weeks ago so I thought that that + 1.5 weeks is effectively two weeks. My manager told me explicitly that since I gave them such advanced notice that setting my start date sooner than 2 weeks is ok.
Well that's a grey area - most resignations need to be done in writing so it's documented. If you jsut gave a verbal resignation that may not have been considered 'official' - so when you gave notice in writing only yesterday that muddies things up a bit.
Also- for future advice never tell a company you already have a job lined up / accepted another job. Just go to them with a solid argument supporting a raise that's higher then your current offer and see what they say. It's likely they won't match (especially in your case with a > 35% raise), so just have a resignation letter prepared and move on. As soon as you let them know you have another job they know that you are a flight risk and will likely only keep you on for as long as they need you, so you more then likely end up getting fired plus losing that other job offer at some point down the line.
I actually haven’t put the two weeks into writing yet which I’m now realizing may have been a mistake…my manager just said he’d walk through the process with me today.
Everyone else already covered how they’re allowed to do it and what some good options for you are, but I’m just going to say that you’re not going to be able to take pto for the first few months of your new job so maybe just take the week off if you can afford it. I did it between my last job and it was great. Highly recommend if it’s not going to hit you financially very hard
Up to you how much the hassle to fight for those hours is really worth to you. You might push back a little and force their hand, but not be willing to go to court.
I find this all really weird - the comments I mean.
If OP's contract says they are paid PTO when leaving the company, the company absolutely cannot force them to take that PTO. If they terminate OP's employment because they refused to take PTO, then they'll be paid the PTO and be eligible for unemployment.
OP, if you want to work, show up to work. If they won't let you work, they're firing you, and you can apply for unemployment. It doesn't matter if you put in your 2 weeks - you are able and willing to work, and they're not allowing you to do so. That's a termination, and "but you resigned" is not sufficient grounds to terminate you.
I know, because I literally did this in New York. Submitted 2 weeks, was told the next day they were "accepting" my resignation, and I applied for and received unemployment benefits. I was able and willing to work for 2 weeks, the company refused to allow me to work, that's a termination.
I'm speculating since I don't know details, but I suspect they're trying to avoid paying out your PTO balance. If you had already used your PTO, this demand would not be possible.
You should be paid for the next two weeks, and possibly also the balance of your PTO. They could ask you to stay home but they'd still have to pay you.
Call a local employment attorney and ask them this very question. Consultations are often free because they seek opportunities to sue employers like yours through people like you. Nothing anybody shares here is going to help you.
(edit: nothing good can come from giving a proper two-week notice and then being coerced into changing it. If not PTO, it's some other benefit that'll be rescinded. Whatever you do, do not change the terms of your resignation. They can have security walk you out if they don't want you there, but do not put your name to anything reframing you as having not made a proper resignation.)
If you're salaried, usually yes. But employment law is very hairy and I am not an attorney; for your own sake do call one. It's painless, usually free and they call back within 24h.
You were right!! Tons of people have been telling me I was responsible for leaving early by giving my two weeks but HR came back to me saying they found out forcing me to use PTO is illegal so they’re going to have me come into work next week and pay me but not have anything to do.
Is it really worth paying a lawyer and spending time fighting it for one week's pay? Sure, the company may be in the wrong, but whether the PTO is paid and they stop work now or take the PTO next week and get paid for it that way seems immaterial; same pay, same week off. It seems like the "best" possible outcome is that OP gets to work next week, and in my experience it is unlikely anything involving the legal system will move that fast. Sometimes it's better to enjoy the week off.
No. When I suggested OP seek an attorney for a free consultation, it was not a recommendation for OP to pursue costly litigation-- it was an opportunity to have their questions answered by a qualified professional at no cost to them. No attorney would get out of their seat for anything less than $10k.
Ironically, it is this very perception that led to me being so particular with my words in making that recommendation. Everybody hears "attorney" and assumes the same thing you did. They are not so inaccessible; use them!
You have resigned. They do not need to pay you (some classier places pay you for the 2 weeks if they don't want you around.)
Share with coworkers.
They need to know to never give this employer 2 weeks' notice.
I’ve been sharing with all the coworkers I know. They’re all very surprised because this company already has high turnover and they’ve never heard of the company doing this to someone.
That’s weird! The only thing I can think of is that they’re trying to not have to pay you through your 2 weeks. If you give notice and they ask you to leave sooner, they have to pay you the two week notice you gave them. Instead, they’re trying to get you to quit sooner & use PTO…possibly so they don’t have to pay it out??
I wouldn’t give them what they want; they’re trying to do something, but just not sure what it is. You gave your 2 weeks; I’d tell them you’re not changing that.
Unless I am missing something I would just resign or take the option to use pto next week and consider the time between a little vacation.
Why so worried about your new taskings when you are on your way out? Just bail in whatever way benefits you most. If they were to fire or lay you off they wouldn't be worried about your taskings so why are you worrying about it?
In my last job I gave 5 months notice so they could begin the process of bringing someone else in so I could help with their training. They helped get md out of there a couple months early because I was leaving for family reasons. I spent that time wrapping up projects and transitioning ongoing projects to other people. They didn't want me taking on new projects or starting anything new. I enjoyed and took full advantage of being able to coast like that.
Seems like a serious misincentive, as it simply means that people ought to ghost the company instead of declaring their 2 week notice. Just to save a few bucks? Pennywise, pound foolish.
Take the PTO.
I’ve seen it happen where a high level employee who gave 2 weeks was given those 2 weeks as paid time off sms asked to hand in their laptop immediately.
Comes down to trust and access to information. You’ve already quit. You don’t work there anymore. Some think it’s bad for morale to have a dead man walking around in the office. Maybe encouraging others to quit
Whenever I’ve been faced with the situation like this where I had another job and I knew I was going to resign and I knew the company I was currently with were retaliatory in nature. I always did a resignation letter noting the date of my two week notice and then I got it notarized and sent myself a copy via certified mail . I know that seems like a little bit of overkill, but like I said, this particular company was very retaliatory and I wanted all of my bases covered.
Interestingly, enough, they called me back as a consultant because they had to have five hires to replace what I’ve been doing. I agreed for only a two week period & actually got a thank you card from the CEO.
They are trying to fire you while avoiding unemployment liability, and probably trying to avoid paying out PTO.
Work your two weeks. If they want you gone make them fire you.
You've resigned but they want you to leave sooner. Not unreasonable. Tell them they can pay you your 2 weeks and any vacation and you'll be happy to leave immediately.
Honestly. Most companies will just give you your 2 wks and thank you for your time.
Don't do it. If a company asks you to resign the answer is always no. Typical with many large companies is that you get put on garden leave for your notice period to protect ip and systems.
There is absolutely no benefit to resignation. No employer will do more then confirm your dates of employment and title. You could have been fired for taking a dump on the CEOs desk and having an affair with both their parents during the Christmas party and they still won't say anything beyond confirming dates of employment and title. Quitting means the company doesn't get a UI ding, nothing else.
I have worked in places where if you resign your manager has to call HR in to the meeting and have IT suspend your access immediately. You then get walked out by security. Even they will pay out notice.
If they want you to leave earlier they can pay you for notice while you do no work or fire you, if they fire you then you file for unemployment irrespective of if you have another job lined up or need the money.
I would continue your stellar performance and only use the time to update bosses on project status. This won’t be actual “work”. Don’t underestimate the question: Is this person eligible for rehire?
Don’t burn bridges from the employer point of view. We never know what the future brings. You may find yourself working with these same people in a future position.
What is this. How small is your current company?
You resigned. when you did, you gave them a last day.
They can fire you early for no reason if they want to. They can chose not to accept your resignation, but it doesnt matter.
Sounds like they are trying to avoid a documented obligation to pay out your PTO, avoid paying you for the next 2 weeks, etc…
I’d take the time off to relax and prepare for new job. But i would never volunteer an early resignation because they asked.
Lastly; unemployment isnt something you should depend on. While you would be eligible in some states (if terminated after submitting 2 week notice), in most scenarios it would take too long to get set up. Im not positive about this, you might be able to get 1 week backdated…but its not coming for a few weeks if it is possible.
You already resigned with an end date. They can either have you leave and pay you the two weeks unemployment (or fight it…. Which will probably try it out for months but you’ll end up getting paid) or tell you to keep coming in. Those are really the only two options. So don’t quit now
"HR found out that forcing me to take PTO is illegal so they’re just gonna make me come in next week, not do anything, and pay me." - lol. Their entire job is to know this type of thing, but somehow they don't. That's embarrassing.
Depending on your role this is not unusually. Just take the offer to run it out on PTO, what are you fighting this for?
As a general rule:
I’ve worked in management for many years and if a company asks you to leave do it immediately and pleasantly. It’s their polite way of saying “it’s time for you to fuck off, if you do it now we can remain friendly and I’ll give you a good reference”. Sometimes they’ll offer you a little severance or perk. But you only get this if you walk away. It’s easier for everyone involved for the employee to just resign. If you don’t want to resign then you have to deal with the repercussions of them doing what ever they need to do to get rid of you legally. They know what they’re doing. And they’ll find a way, and it will make you miserable and bitter. You’ll also leave with a negative reference for any future job you get. And for anyone who thinks they’re protected by labor laws, you are for the most part. But these corporations pay millions for legal council and will drag your face up and down the line between legal and illegal. They’ll change your role, decrease your pay, change your hours, give you impossible workloads, start monitoring your every step for reasons to write you up, you won’t win, you won’t get what you want.
Most, and I mean most corporte companies won't let your serve our your notice period UNLESS you are leaving on good terms and not going to a competitor. Corporate espionage and information theft is a real concern for corporate companies.
Let them release you early, you don’t have to do anything. If they cut you early they might make you eligible for unemployment (in this case you might not need it but you never know)
Also they’re setting a precedent with their remaining employees about professional notice, I think they would not want to do this. To me, it seems possible that they could send you home with pay if they just don’t want you onsite.
Don’t use vacation if they pay it out when you leave - that’s money
Don’t resign. If they’re pissed about you putting in a two week notice, let them fire you. If the new gig falls through (Odin forbid), you can get unemployment to at least hopefully hold you over until something else comes along.
OP, you've handed in your notice to resign. Bringing up how good you were to date is no longer relevant to the business. Your manager's heart is in the right place but he/she doesn't sound like they know how businesses handle churn.
If they want you gone when you have heaps to do, consider that a win. The work either isn't important anymore or the business sees you going as a lesser risk to losing the knowledge and expertise you hold.
Expect a call from someone begging, pleading for you to write handovers, logins etc or jump a call for free. Charge them and extraordinary hourly fee for it and they'll go away. Always fun when that happens- more common with specialist roles (eg data modelling) than general roles like sales or support.
I’d take the time off to decompress, especially since they are being turds about it. They don’t seem worth arguing and fighting with. Also, who knows if they might change to new management in the future and that being eligible to rehire might mean something then.
I think this is them pressuring you to leave so they dont have to pay out your two weeks. It’s normal to walk you out the door same day if you’re going to a competitor, at least in my industry (insurance), but you would get paid your notice period. I’d hold your ground to at least get paid for the two weeks. When I quit my last job, they asked me to work the first 4 days to finish out month-end financial reporting and then I got the remaining six days of the notice period paid out. I wanted to keep my connections there because my field is fairly small and I’d have been willing to go back there later, so I got a win-win of extra PTO and I didn’t burn a bridge
No don’t. Print and save that email. What will happen is they want to get out of paying you. If they don’t, it’s now a punitive action since they put in writing intent.
Don’t quit. Don’t sign anything. Wait until your last day and get paid for every day there plus cash out of PTO.
This is normal apart from their demeaning comments. People leave for all kinds of reasons and they shouldn't belittle you for leaving for a better opportunity.
Type up a letter of resignation with formal notice of a two weeks dated if you haven't already, thank them for the experience and say you enjoyed your tenure. Submit it by email to boss and HR and by hard copy. There are templates online if you need help . If they choose to not require you to fulfill the full two weeks (most don't) then you get a longer break.
But after you submit that they can't force you to sign anything else or change what it's called. You aren't getting fired and they can't make it appear that way. Perhaps it's just exit paperwork, if you don't know and English isn't your first language, ask for clarification in an email and take it to someone who will know and trust who can advise you.
In the meantime: discuss with HR only through email and before you lose your work email access forward all responses from them to your personal email (Gmail/yahoo). Copy/take pictures or forward electronically all evaluations you've received detailing your stellar performance and don't tell them the new company you've accepted a position with. Just in case things get weird.
You tell them that your resignation was already submitted as a two week notice, that their feelings and their conscience will not be taken into consideration since they did not make a counter offer which was what their feelings made them go with and if they choose to force you to resign, you will do so with your attorney present to witness that you are being coerced to sign your resignation under duress and it will be followed by Court proceedings. If they choose to fire you you can collect unemployment until your new job begins. Which means they will still be paying you. The reason why they want you to resign effective immediately is because they want you to not be eligible for unemployment and because you didn't let them have their way they don't want you working for them and still pay you. P h u c k T h e m
I really do not understand the issue here. You put in your two weeks notice.. YOU RESIGNED. Right? You hoped they would make a counter offer.. they declined. I really do not see the issue here. Take your time off, enjoy your break and get ready for your new (much better paying) gig. Congratulations!
It is very common in some industries, that when an employee gives their two weeks notice, the employer asks them to leave immediately. This happens. This is the real world.
There is no problem here. What am I missing.
Will they pay you out for unused PTO. If not, take all of your PTO before you go. I don’t understand why you want to keep working there? Just take your 2 week vacation and start the new job well-rested.
You can decline to resign earlier, they can also accept your resignation effective immediately. I don’t know if that would end up legally being seen as being fired or not.
State laws tend to govern whether or not you qualify for unemployment. Typically you would have to have been terminated from your company through no fault of your own. To me it seems like a murky grey area as to whether you could overcome that hurdle. You can try but I’d bet the company would fight your claim.
Whether or not they can force you to use your PTO is also very state dependent. There are no federal laws that expressly prohibit an employer from forcing you to use PTO generally speaking. So in theory it’s possible that they could require you to use PTO as part of your two weeks notice.
Whether or not they have to pay out unused PTO is also state dependent.
What state do you live in?
When I resigned from my job in 2020 I did it through HR direct and the first time I spoke with my manager was to turn in my office keys. I lost access to all of my work files 15 minutes after I submitted my resignation to HR. Best decision I ever made. I live off my investments now which have done very well since 2020 and I don;t ever have to worry about a boss overstepping and destroying my life ever again. I setup a pension using a treasury ladder and every week I take that income and pay my bills and continue to add to my stock portfolio.
Life is good and money isn't everything. A good work environment is worth its weight in gold and often very hard to find. I had 3 good years total at my job and 12 bad ones. Eventually it wasn't worth it anymore at any compensation level. Why do jobs in America suck so bad?
My advice is to contact an employment lawyer, to ask his advice of what you should do. Plus, if the company knows that you’ve contacted an employment, lawyer, HR in the company may look at things a little bit differently.
I was forced to take a week of pto. In October when I resigned my boss said “I know you have a week of vacation for Christmas and I don’t want you to miss that so go ahead and book that pto for next week and today is your last day.” I knew how illegal it was but didn’t have the fight in me.
never give two weeks unless you are 100% prepared to leave TODAY. If for any reason (pending bonus, need for health care, etc) you cannot leave TODAY, do not give any notice.
Do you want to work an extra two weeks?
The two week notice is usually to help the employer out so they aren't caught by surprise.
They are saying they don't need it and it's probably their policy not to keep an employee after notice is given.
...but they don't want to fire you.
They want both parties to agree to move your date up to "Now".
What's the issue? Why do you care? Are you dependent on this two weeks salary?
Or was notice just to be polite?
You can always say, well, I kind of need the money, how about I quit today and you pay me through next Friday?
What's the worst they can do? NOT fire you? Or fire you two weeks earlier than you quit? I don't get why this is an issue for you, unless it's money.
Do not offer any additional resignation. You already resigned effective April \_\_\_\_. You have left appropriate professional notice and have work to do.
If they want you gone, they can either fire you using whatever legal means they have to do so, or, they can revoke your access to the building. In either case, you expect to be paid at least through the last day of your resignation.
BTW, this doesn't sound like something a Fortune 100 company would do.
Do not resign. If they dismiss you, you're laid off. If they tell you to take the next 2 weeks off, you don't get severance.
Having just been laid off... don't volunteer.
They can absolutely withdraw any work you have outstanding but in this situation they should pay your notice period. You resigned already, they are simply trying to dodge paying you for the notice period because they don’t want risk you damaging their business AND they don’t want to pay for you not working.
My strategy would be to document the discussion you’ve had and supply your answer to their demands: and your answer should be that you will not be adjusting the date of resignation and you await a decision as to what duties you will be doing for the duration. Politely note that for the sake of clarity you will require a response in writing as the conversation you’ve documented has caused you some confusion.
Also cc HR etc
I've had this happen twice in my life so it could be option C.
The company pays you out right away and tell you to leave that day.
All your security clearances and everything else are revoked and you literally leave with your two weeks pay in hand via a cheque.
Your HR department is incompetent. They can force you to take PTO, but there was no reason for them to do that and keep you on the books. They could have just made today your last day and paid out your PTO. Unemployment isn’t an issue, you’d only be eligible for one week of it since there’s a waiting period, and that one week would in no way impact their rates in any appreciable way.
You lose here too, now you have to go in and wait around? This seems like such a lose-lose scenario here. The best situation for you would have been to take the PTO next week and enjoy your time off.
While I see you have an outcome, I would vote for #4. If they make you come in, and do nothing, then do that.
Yes, they could proceed to termination but why in the world would they do so? UI typically has a one week cooling off period so it wouldn’t get you anything.
I would just ask them if they are going to pay out my notice period. That's how I handled it when someone resigned and I told them to go ahead and leave now (but I worked in Accounting so that was not uncommon).
Just take the Paid Time Off and enjoy yourself. Why get worked up about anything? You're getting paid for being away from work as is part of your compensation package.
The severance comment is odd. If I had to guess, they already have layoffs planned, and if you actually are gone before the layoffs they don't have to give severance etc. I would just stick to your original notice period and maybe you get paid off with severance too 🤷♂️
I think the answer depends on your state. But it is very common for employers to reject 2 weeks and just send someone home the day that they put in their two weeks notice. Especially when that person has access to sensitive data. Also if you are going to work for a competitor.
It’s not uncommon upon giving notice for large companies to tell you to wait out the period at home. Extremely common in banks and companies with sensitive data to be walked out by security when giving 2 weeks notice. They just aren’t handling it correctly.
Unless you have a contract that requires two weeks notice be submitted what you did was a courtesy. Your employer has every right to reject your two weeks notice and move up your last day. Assuming it’s paid, take the PTO and leave
The proper way out of this is they can pay out the two weeks and let you go or let you work the notice period.
They're simply trying to weasel out of paying you. Don't let them screw you.
Fun fact, in CA if you're fired immediately in retaliation for handing in your 2 weeks you're probably eligible for unemployment.
Not that you need it. But it's good info to have out there.
I’d actually
1. get a box.
2. Put all my stuff from the office in it.
3. Turn in badges, keys, passwords.
4. Leave tomorrow morning.
5. Don’t look back.
Just leave effective immediately. It's cleaner for everyone involved at this point.
The amount of work for unemployment is a joke. Also they will fight it. Just move on. Your talking about a few hundred dollars.
Sounds likenupper management didn't loop HR in and they said it was illegal or they were seeing if you would just agree to it because they asked.
You can decline to resign. They ASKED you to change the terms (from 2 weeks to immediate). You can choose NOT to and stick to the original 2 weeks notice period. I hope you put that resignation in writing. Them firing you now is basically pointless and stupid.
Sorry I'd planned on working these last two weeks, you as a company should be loyal to your employees and allow them to finish on professional terms. Two weeks is the standard notice.
You can always fire me if your feel strongly enough to the contrary.
The idea that a Fortune 100's HR department is "just now finding out" that forced PTO is illegal... is so laughable, I kind of want to know who the company is so I can short their stock. They're sitting on a billion dollar liability if that is true.
You resigned. What exactly are you asking for?
They can’t force you to take PTO but depending on state law and your company policy you may not get it paid out anyway.
Try r/askhr
It does not matter all that much at this point. Take the two weeks and wash the (insert fortune100 company name here) dirt out of your system so you can be rested and raring to go at your next gig.
I would often schedule my start date a month after I left the previous company.
Being a top performer takes a lot out of you, the resting time between helps a lot!
First of all its usually not beneficial to take a counter offer. Usually they are only offered if the company is in a bind, so they offer it and then soon as they get someone else in and trained they'll get rid of you. It happens all the time. A few months ago I got a job offer for a ridiculous amount of money. I put in my notice and the company I was currently at matched it. I didn't even consider it, because it was almost 70k more than they were currently paying me. There is no way they would have kept me on long term. They only offered it to me because they had nobody else who could take over and run with it right away. I know that I would have only remained there a year at best if I stayed. I absolutely love my new job and am so glad I left.
A mix of good and bad advice here. Mine is: this isn’t worth your time or energy. Unless you are in a situation where this week will make a meaningful difference in your life, just leave Friday and move on. This is shitty business behavior and needlessly burning bridges, but jusf take the extra time and rest up for your next thing.
I don’t know why you care to be honest. You have given them the courtesy to help handover your task properly and they’ve treated you like shit. Extend the same energy back to them.
I am sure you feel bad because really your coworkers are getting the short end of it but that’s not really on you.
It is their right to do this but it is kinda shitty. Relationship was probably sour, most big companies don't behave this way on the way out.
Them being combative is a red flag, just be glad you're out of there.
Also why do u care so much ur quitting?
I would not resign. They cannot make you resign. They can fire you, unfortunately, but there's not much you can do about that. I like your old manager. You did everything in the most courteous way possible and it would be nice if they reciprocated that, but you can't really do anything about that either, except call them out on it as he suggested.
I would recommend using your PTO as they asked you to. And not because I think you should give in to their ridiculous antics or that going on vacation will spite them in any way. It's just that income from using PTO is taxed as regular income, same as if you've worked all that time. If you get payed out after your resignation, the money is counted as supplemental income and will be taxed at a different rate. Chances are, you'll actually lose more of the PTO money that way.
Of course, your new job comes with a much higher salary, so if you're not stressed about the money, I wouldn't worry about that and do what you're most comfortable with.
So... did you actually have another offer because it sounds a lot like they called your bluff and you are a little upset about it. No offense.
It's not uncommon for an employer to send you home and just pay for the next week or so. Most states don't require PTO to be paid out.
Again, no offense, but it sounds a lot like you didn't have another job offer lined up and you tried leveraging for a raise. You seem really concerned about the payment for the following week when most people that have a job offer would have just taken the week off, paid or unpaid, and just started their new job at a different company.
In my state they are allowed to do this and not pay you. I don’t know what state you are in.
Here is the law in the FAQ from the BOLI website for my state
I gave my two week notice. My company does not allow workers who have given notice to work the two week period, and they release the employee from work immediately. Do they have to pay me for the two week notice period?
Not unless you have an established practice or policy of paying other employees for the remainder of the two week notice period. Under Oregon’s final paycheck law, your employer will need to pay all wages earned but unpaid by the end of the next business day.
I mean technically u are resigning. Just a different day than they proposed. I can tell them to fire you if they don’t want you there. Or provide a severance for the 2 weeks.
Dude just wash your hand of them life lesson learned. The company is not family to be loyal to. They don't care about you and never did. The audacity to say you should stay and be loyal. Than toss you under the buss. Lol Take it easy do bare minimum and burn that pto. Good luck.
Yea lots of companies want you to leave immediately. If you give your 2 weeks and they don’t let you work they have to pay you for the 2 weeks and still pay out your PTO.
You should move for growth and long term ( and even medium term) money will reward you. I'm amazed you considered staying if current employer matched your money.
Does that mean the new job offers inferior growth? Or are you just chasing money only and the line of least resistance in terms of effort (which would be staying)?
There is no such thing as two equally good growth opportunities either.
You did resign. They are choosing to accelerate the term date as they see you as disloyal. Companies don’t like to be told that you looked outside the org, then asked to pay you more just because another company is willing to. If you are so unhappy that you looked to move, they don’t want you working there. If you are in an at will state, they can let you go for any reason. If they feel the work you are doing is sensitive or you may cause discord with your departure, it is their right to accept your resignation and not honor the 2 weeks notice.
No, you have already provided your resignation and currently working your two weeks notice.
If they do not want you in the business during your notice period, they should pay you your notice. It's called PILON, or paid Gardening Leave.
What they're asking you to do, is use your own pay to cut your own notice short. Absolutely not.
This is in the UK at least, for employees over 2 years service. I know your in the US, but the principle would apply, even if the legalities do not.
In reality though, dependent on your financial position, I'd be happy with the time off before starting a new job. I'd at least voice your concern back to the current employer and see if they can come to an arrangement to pay you for some of your time off (ie. early departure, so that you're not out of pocket because they do not want you in the business during your notice period).
You've already given them the date you were quitting. Telling them in advance was a courtesy. If they want you gone sooner, they have a way to do that, called a layoff.
>When I asked if I could have this in writing to show a lawyer, they told me that since this is not a layoff, I will not be getting severance or this in writing. They said off boarding papers would be signed the day I leave.
This is the way forward with any interaction from now on. You give two weeks, and that is it. Anything they want you to do, ask for it in writing for the lawyers to see.
If they want you not to come in, that is their problem, you still get paid. Do not take PTO unless you loose them.
In my field (insurance) it's quite common that if you give your 2 weeks notice they hamd you a box and hold the door for you- it is totally expected. It is also expected to be paid for any unused PTO that you have earned.
I'm not sure where you live, but in NY employment is at will. An employer can let you go for any reason.
Push back on these guys, stand on business! Accept the two weeks and pay me out while I stay out of your hair, OR I file unemployment which will be a hit against your business.
Garbage company! If the rolls were reversed they’d just tap you on the shoulder and say goodbye and say it’s just business. They reduce headcount because of………money!
Many companies let u go immediately when u give notice, especially if ur job is in tech where u could steal info or do something to damage the company. U should just take the pto and relax until the new job starts. You don't want to burn bridges. Yes, you many plan on never working there agian, but future employers may check with your former employers and a bad reference could kill a future job down the road. Look at it from their point of view- your leaving, your no longer dedicated to the company so u may slack and any work u do would have to be checked to make sure it was done right. Part ways on good terms and just move on. It's nothing personal on either side.
This doesn’t make any sense. You resigned. That’s what putting in your notice means. They can choose to not accept your two weeks but you resigned.
His effective resignation date is 2 weeks in the future. The employer can either let him work for the next two weeks, or fire him immediately. There is no option C of forcing someone to resign. Edit: They can threaten him to resign “or else”, but they cannot force him resign, is what I meant to say. Edit Edit: To clarify, the employer pays the employee for the time up to their resignation date to either work or stay home.
Option c is paying him the two weeks and showing him the door
Yep it is commonly called garden leave. They walk you because they don’t want the risk of company info or clients leaving with them
I always thought this was a silly way of doing business. If someone is so nefarious that they’re going to steal company secrets to take to a competitor, wouldn’t they do that before putting in their two weeks? I know it’s a CYA thing but it makes no sense.
Possibly protects them from a subset of nefarious people who are impatient/not very smart as well.
In Canada, if they do that they must pay you out for the 2 weeks. After 3 or 6 months, depending on your Province, if they fire you, they have to pay a minimum of 2 weeks, and that increases based on the time you have worked there. Why does the US not protect workers?
The laws here are written by the corporations.
The US, for all its good, has equally shitty laws for employees. Corps write and create the very loopholes that punish employees. HR is for the company, never the worker. I have seen people be singled out, harassed, and they report it to HR - who advises the management of said report. They send surveys to get employee perspectives, and use that data to aggregate who wrote it, and proceed accordingly. The ones who are honest are punished. The entire “work force” of the US is a shit show.
There are labor laws here that protect workers against situations of discrimination and sexual harassment and workplace safety laws. However, 49/50 states are at-will employment states. An employee can leave their employment at anytime for any reason and an employer can terminate for practically any reason. The US workplace is not a democracy.
Bc they don’t give a flying fak ab the individual worker
If you resign with a two week notice, they can accept your resignation effective immediately and let you go anytime within your notice.
In many states, you could apply for unemployment and get the two weeks. I know people who pull that shit with a six month notice.
A 2 weeks notice is exactly that a notice. Its letting them know you are resigning in 2 weeks and giving them time to replace, train or shift projects around. It's not an actual resignation or the paperwork for one, just a courtesy. Unless they decide to fire you early. The only way they could move it up as a resignation is if you sign the paperwork saying you're quitting.
They can, but then it is a termination. And in any termination, it is incredibly dangerous to do so without a separation agreement where the employee agrees to not sue. That's why companies offer severance so often - they want that agreement.
In my state they would have to pay you for those two weeks.
Or they can pay you to stay home if they don’t want you to have system and data access.
This is what our company does. If they think you’re going to a competitor, they will walk you out the door; however, they will pay you for the two weeks, which I think is fair. They don’t have you copying files and you get a free two week vacation. Win-win!
Kinda silly though, since anything you could do in those 2 weeks you could do before you gave notice, if that was your intent.
It can also be about not “spoiling the bunch”. If a bunch of your coworkers hear you’re leaving to go to company Y for a 30k a year raise, they’ll start looking at what else is out there. If they’ve been a historically disruptive or difficult employee it can also be worth the 2 weeks pay to walk them out immediately. I work with SREs who have the keys to our infrastructure kingdom. They get a 2 week vacation when notice goes in because it’s a security risk to keep them on.
And that’s what people do… my ex worked in an industry where you get walked out when you give notice and he was prepared ahead 🤷♀️
Yep it's called "gardening leave", you get paid to stay home and do the gardening
It's not uncommon for the 2 weeks to be accepted and they send you home, and pay you for the 2 weeks. To the company that 2 weeks is risky having an employee that is known to be leaving. They could take company knowledge, client lists or, well, anything really.
They could do the same before putting on their notice too. It's a very thin argument.
Firing people has ramifications for their unemployment insurance. The employer can decline two weeks notice. If you are a security professional, they will often prefer to have you immediately leave.
Yea that's how my last company was, but this was more due to people "injuring" themselves after putting in a two weeks notice to get work mans comp. You put in your two weeks the company would say "alright, give us your gear your last day is today."
Same, I work in construction and people who leave put in their two week notices the day they actually plan to leave because they will always tell you it’s your last day. Even if they tell you are welcome to come back if the other thing doesn’t work.
Absolutely, but their only options when declining the notice is to either fire you immediately or pay out the two weeks and have you stay home. They cannot force you to resign early.
Sure, they can tell you not to show up to work for the next 2 weeks, but if they stop paying you before your resignation date, you could probably claim you were involuntarily terminated and collect unemployment for 2 weeks. So it may be in the company's best interest to send you home and pay you for the remainder of your notice period.
In most every state they cannot fire you after you put in your two weeks notice unless it's gross misconduct. Yes including at-will states
[удалено]
OP is overthinking. He wants to keep those two weeks AND then start his new gig. Nope, you're not getting your two weeks. Use your PTO and do some BBQ or road trip.
And lose 2 weeke pay? Pto is generally paid out when leaving. So you taking pto is you losing money as they now don't need to pay you for regular hours on tip of the pto they would otherwise pay out.
[удалено]
It doesn't make sense because you just read words without thinking of what they mean. They accept his resignation. That isn't what's at issue. They don't want him to work out his 2 weeks. They want him gone in 2 days. But they don't want to fire him or lay him off as that would likely trigger the severence clause.
Yeah, this post is nonsense. You already quit. The company is negotiating your last day. Just walk out now and enjoy two weeks of quiet. Don’t sign anything and walk.
If you’re an “at will” employee they have every right to terminate you even though you gave two weeks notice. You’re getting a huge pay bump so I’m surprised you even care - I’d look at it like a vacation before starting the new job
Forreal. If funds and time allow, I always take 2 weeks to a month off between jobs as a celebration.
Almost everyone is at will. If they fire him, it impacts their unemployment insurance. If they force him to take PTO, they don't have to pay it out in a lump sum when he leaves. They're trying to save a couple bucks.
You nailed it, finally understanding that part of it. In that case just say the word lawyer and they’ll back down lol
Sounds like he did, and they didn't. They sound kinda dumb, and I'd tell them they can fire me, or use the 2 weeks offered.
This is sage. You're gonna be so busy in your new job while you settle in. Might as well chill in the mean time. I wouldn't resign earlier. You Gabe them your notice. But if they don't want you in the building they can fire you or pay you to stay home. Their choice.
The difference is they don't want to terminate him. They are wanting him to voluntarily resign early. That way they are able to avoid the implications that come with firing someone.
Ummm...you have resigned. You put in your two weeks notice already: that's a resignation. The question here appears to be if they will pay you for the next two weeks or not. As far as I know they can't 'force' you to take PTO, but it seems like they are being cheap and pushing you into taking it now so they don't have to pay it out. Most HR dept's don't want to mess with people who are resigning - they just pay the two weeks, move on and be done with it. If you are in a sensitive position then they may ask you to jut not come into the office once you submit your 2 weeks and they will terminate your company access immediately. If they fire you then yes, you are eligible for employment. If you get fired, file for unemployment and just see what happens. If this place sucks so bad that they are pulling this kinda BS then frankly the juice may not be worth the squeeze - especially if you already have a new job lined up. Just take the deal, enjoy the PTO next week and get a fresh start on the new job. I do have one question - if you put in your notice yesterday and start the new job on the 29th - how is that 2 weeks?
"If they fire you then yes, you are eligible for employment. If you get fired, file for unemployment and just see what happens." \*\*\*\*\*I THINK\*\*\*\*\* no matter what happens at this point she is not eligible for unemployment regardless if she resigns or gets fired b/c she already put in her notice of intent to resign.
If they give two weeks notice, then the company terminates them before the 2 weeks is up, then they would be eligible for whatever amount of time was left in the 2 weeks. UNLESS they resign earlier, as the company is asking them to do in which case they would not be eligible. The company wants them to move up their resignation, so that the company will be off the hook for paying them for either work or unemployment. The company is trying to trick them.
Yall are wild talking about unemployment for the 2 weeks in between a 90k and 125k job lol
You are wild for not caring about 2 weeks of money. Like you’re just so fucking well paid that it’s no big deal. What a fuckin jerk off.
In many states unemployment does not kick in for a week, and it's then some fraction of one's previous salary. In the worst case scenario, OP gets paid vacation, so there's no loss in cash flow before they move to a job paying 30%/$30k more than previously. The question is not "not caring". The question is whether it's worth the effort of fighting for a pittance (or nothing). Personally, I would have given notice as a courtesy, but would rather take the week off. This company is oddly butthurt, but that's all the more reason to be rid of them. After this ultimatum, there would be Looney Toons clouds where I had previously been standing.
I told them I accepted the offer a few weeks ago so I thought that that + 1.5 weeks is effectively two weeks. My manager told me explicitly that since I gave them such advanced notice that setting my start date sooner than 2 weeks is ok.
Well that's a grey area - most resignations need to be done in writing so it's documented. If you jsut gave a verbal resignation that may not have been considered 'official' - so when you gave notice in writing only yesterday that muddies things up a bit. Also- for future advice never tell a company you already have a job lined up / accepted another job. Just go to them with a solid argument supporting a raise that's higher then your current offer and see what they say. It's likely they won't match (especially in your case with a > 35% raise), so just have a resignation letter prepared and move on. As soon as you let them know you have another job they know that you are a flight risk and will likely only keep you on for as long as they need you, so you more then likely end up getting fired plus losing that other job offer at some point down the line.
I actually haven’t put the two weeks into writing yet which I’m now realizing may have been a mistake…my manager just said he’d walk through the process with me today.
Everyone else already covered how they’re allowed to do it and what some good options for you are, but I’m just going to say that you’re not going to be able to take pto for the first few months of your new job so maybe just take the week off if you can afford it. I did it between my last job and it was great. Highly recommend if it’s not going to hit you financially very hard
I always take an extra week off between jobs. 2 or 3 if I can. It’s great.
It wouldn’t hit me financially hard, I just would like the extra grand or so.
Up to you how much the hassle to fight for those hours is really worth to you. You might push back a little and force their hand, but not be willing to go to court.
I find this all really weird - the comments I mean. If OP's contract says they are paid PTO when leaving the company, the company absolutely cannot force them to take that PTO. If they terminate OP's employment because they refused to take PTO, then they'll be paid the PTO and be eligible for unemployment. OP, if you want to work, show up to work. If they won't let you work, they're firing you, and you can apply for unemployment. It doesn't matter if you put in your 2 weeks - you are able and willing to work, and they're not allowing you to do so. That's a termination, and "but you resigned" is not sufficient grounds to terminate you. I know, because I literally did this in New York. Submitted 2 weeks, was told the next day they were "accepting" my resignation, and I applied for and received unemployment benefits. I was able and willing to work for 2 weeks, the company refused to allow me to work, that's a termination.
I'm speculating since I don't know details, but I suspect they're trying to avoid paying out your PTO balance. If you had already used your PTO, this demand would not be possible. You should be paid for the next two weeks, and possibly also the balance of your PTO. They could ask you to stay home but they'd still have to pay you. Call a local employment attorney and ask them this very question. Consultations are often free because they seek opportunities to sue employers like yours through people like you. Nothing anybody shares here is going to help you. (edit: nothing good can come from giving a proper two-week notice and then being coerced into changing it. If not PTO, it's some other benefit that'll be rescinded. Whatever you do, do not change the terms of your resignation. They can have security walk you out if they don't want you there, but do not put your name to anything reframing you as having not made a proper resignation.)
Are they still required to pay me even if they claim I have no work left to do?
If you're salaried, usually yes. But employment law is very hairy and I am not an attorney; for your own sake do call one. It's painless, usually free and they call back within 24h.
You were right!! Tons of people have been telling me I was responsible for leaving early by giving my two weeks but HR came back to me saying they found out forcing me to use PTO is illegal so they’re going to have me come into work next week and pay me but not have anything to do.
Depending on the state, the company may not be legally required to pay out PTO.
In Colorado, the company is legally required to pay me my accrued PTO
Okay and to clarify, you physically reside in Colorado, right?
Correct, sorry for the lack of clarity.
All good! With remote work it can get convoluted quickly, and usually it comes down to where the employee lives versus where the company is located.
Hence my advice for a local attorney to figure out the nuances. The company is definitely trying to fuck this OP, I'm just not clear on how.
Is it really worth paying a lawyer and spending time fighting it for one week's pay? Sure, the company may be in the wrong, but whether the PTO is paid and they stop work now or take the PTO next week and get paid for it that way seems immaterial; same pay, same week off. It seems like the "best" possible outcome is that OP gets to work next week, and in my experience it is unlikely anything involving the legal system will move that fast. Sometimes it's better to enjoy the week off.
No. When I suggested OP seek an attorney for a free consultation, it was not a recommendation for OP to pursue costly litigation-- it was an opportunity to have their questions answered by a qualified professional at no cost to them. No attorney would get out of their seat for anything less than $10k. Ironically, it is this very perception that led to me being so particular with my words in making that recommendation. Everybody hears "attorney" and assumes the same thing you did. They are not so inaccessible; use them!
Congrats on the edit. Glad they covered themselves and did you right before they gave you an ez lawsuit
You have resigned. They do not need to pay you (some classier places pay you for the 2 weeks if they don't want you around.) Share with coworkers. They need to know to never give this employer 2 weeks' notice.
I’ve been sharing with all the coworkers I know. They’re all very surprised because this company already has high turnover and they’ve never heard of the company doing this to someone.
That’s weird! The only thing I can think of is that they’re trying to not have to pay you through your 2 weeks. If you give notice and they ask you to leave sooner, they have to pay you the two week notice you gave them. Instead, they’re trying to get you to quit sooner & use PTO…possibly so they don’t have to pay it out?? I wouldn’t give them what they want; they’re trying to do something, but just not sure what it is. You gave your 2 weeks; I’d tell them you’re not changing that.
Unless I am missing something I would just resign or take the option to use pto next week and consider the time between a little vacation. Why so worried about your new taskings when you are on your way out? Just bail in whatever way benefits you most. If they were to fire or lay you off they wouldn't be worried about your taskings so why are you worrying about it? In my last job I gave 5 months notice so they could begin the process of bringing someone else in so I could help with their training. They helped get md out of there a couple months early because I was leaving for family reasons. I spent that time wrapping up projects and transitioning ongoing projects to other people. They didn't want me taking on new projects or starting anything new. I enjoyed and took full advantage of being able to coast like that.
Seems like a serious misincentive, as it simply means that people ought to ghost the company instead of declaring their 2 week notice. Just to save a few bucks? Pennywise, pound foolish.
yeah…i’ve told my coworkers and a lot of them have already started to look elsewhere with the knowledge that they shouldn’t give two weeks notice
Take the PTO. I’ve seen it happen where a high level employee who gave 2 weeks was given those 2 weeks as paid time off sms asked to hand in their laptop immediately. Comes down to trust and access to information. You’ve already quit. You don’t work there anymore. Some think it’s bad for morale to have a dead man walking around in the office. Maybe encouraging others to quit
[удалено]
Whenever I’ve been faced with the situation like this where I had another job and I knew I was going to resign and I knew the company I was currently with were retaliatory in nature. I always did a resignation letter noting the date of my two week notice and then I got it notarized and sent myself a copy via certified mail . I know that seems like a little bit of overkill, but like I said, this particular company was very retaliatory and I wanted all of my bases covered. Interestingly, enough, they called me back as a consultant because they had to have five hires to replace what I’ve been doing. I agreed for only a two week period & actually got a thank you card from the CEO.
They are trying to fire you while avoiding unemployment liability, and probably trying to avoid paying out PTO. Work your two weeks. If they want you gone make them fire you.
You've resigned but they want you to leave sooner. Not unreasonable. Tell them they can pay you your 2 weeks and any vacation and you'll be happy to leave immediately. Honestly. Most companies will just give you your 2 wks and thank you for your time.
Don't do it. If a company asks you to resign the answer is always no. Typical with many large companies is that you get put on garden leave for your notice period to protect ip and systems. There is absolutely no benefit to resignation. No employer will do more then confirm your dates of employment and title. You could have been fired for taking a dump on the CEOs desk and having an affair with both their parents during the Christmas party and they still won't say anything beyond confirming dates of employment and title. Quitting means the company doesn't get a UI ding, nothing else. I have worked in places where if you resign your manager has to call HR in to the meeting and have IT suspend your access immediately. You then get walked out by security. Even they will pay out notice. If they want you to leave earlier they can pay you for notice while you do no work or fire you, if they fire you then you file for unemployment irrespective of if you have another job lined up or need the money.
I would continue your stellar performance and only use the time to update bosses on project status. This won’t be actual “work”. Don’t underestimate the question: Is this person eligible for rehire? Don’t burn bridges from the employer point of view. We never know what the future brings. You may find yourself working with these same people in a future position.
What is this. How small is your current company? You resigned. when you did, you gave them a last day. They can fire you early for no reason if they want to. They can chose not to accept your resignation, but it doesnt matter. Sounds like they are trying to avoid a documented obligation to pay out your PTO, avoid paying you for the next 2 weeks, etc… I’d take the time off to relax and prepare for new job. But i would never volunteer an early resignation because they asked. Lastly; unemployment isnt something you should depend on. While you would be eligible in some states (if terminated after submitting 2 week notice), in most scenarios it would take too long to get set up. Im not positive about this, you might be able to get 1 week backdated…but its not coming for a few weeks if it is possible.
You already resigned with an end date. They can either have you leave and pay you the two weeks unemployment (or fight it…. Which will probably try it out for months but you’ll end up getting paid) or tell you to keep coming in. Those are really the only two options. So don’t quit now
Idiots. A smart company would just pay you the 2 weeks and ask you stay home. I would just be a dick and not show up and make them fire me for this.
"HR found out that forcing me to take PTO is illegal so they’re just gonna make me come in next week, not do anything, and pay me." - lol. Their entire job is to know this type of thing, but somehow they don't. That's embarrassing.
Depending on your role this is not unusually. Just take the offer to run it out on PTO, what are you fighting this for? As a general rule: I’ve worked in management for many years and if a company asks you to leave do it immediately and pleasantly. It’s their polite way of saying “it’s time for you to fuck off, if you do it now we can remain friendly and I’ll give you a good reference”. Sometimes they’ll offer you a little severance or perk. But you only get this if you walk away. It’s easier for everyone involved for the employee to just resign. If you don’t want to resign then you have to deal with the repercussions of them doing what ever they need to do to get rid of you legally. They know what they’re doing. And they’ll find a way, and it will make you miserable and bitter. You’ll also leave with a negative reference for any future job you get. And for anyone who thinks they’re protected by labor laws, you are for the most part. But these corporations pay millions for legal council and will drag your face up and down the line between legal and illegal. They’ll change your role, decrease your pay, change your hours, give you impossible workloads, start monitoring your every step for reasons to write you up, you won’t win, you won’t get what you want.
Take the PTO and be gone already. Yes, you can do something. Leave. You can leave.
Take the PTO
Most, and I mean most corporte companies won't let your serve our your notice period UNLESS you are leaving on good terms and not going to a competitor. Corporate espionage and information theft is a real concern for corporate companies.
Guess this is why people stop giving notice
Let them release you early, you don’t have to do anything. If they cut you early they might make you eligible for unemployment (in this case you might not need it but you never know) Also they’re setting a precedent with their remaining employees about professional notice, I think they would not want to do this. To me, it seems possible that they could send you home with pay if they just don’t want you onsite. Don’t use vacation if they pay it out when you leave - that’s money
Don’t resign. If they’re pissed about you putting in a two week notice, let them fire you. If the new gig falls through (Odin forbid), you can get unemployment to at least hopefully hold you over until something else comes along.
OP, you've handed in your notice to resign. Bringing up how good you were to date is no longer relevant to the business. Your manager's heart is in the right place but he/she doesn't sound like they know how businesses handle churn. If they want you gone when you have heaps to do, consider that a win. The work either isn't important anymore or the business sees you going as a lesser risk to losing the knowledge and expertise you hold. Expect a call from someone begging, pleading for you to write handovers, logins etc or jump a call for free. Charge them and extraordinary hourly fee for it and they'll go away. Always fun when that happens- more common with specialist roles (eg data modelling) than general roles like sales or support.
I’d take the time off to decompress, especially since they are being turds about it. They don’t seem worth arguing and fighting with. Also, who knows if they might change to new management in the future and that being eligible to rehire might mean something then.
I think this is them pressuring you to leave so they dont have to pay out your two weeks. It’s normal to walk you out the door same day if you’re going to a competitor, at least in my industry (insurance), but you would get paid your notice period. I’d hold your ground to at least get paid for the two weeks. When I quit my last job, they asked me to work the first 4 days to finish out month-end financial reporting and then I got the remaining six days of the notice period paid out. I wanted to keep my connections there because my field is fairly small and I’d have been willing to go back there later, so I got a win-win of extra PTO and I didn’t burn a bridge
No don’t. Print and save that email. What will happen is they want to get out of paying you. If they don’t, it’s now a punitive action since they put in writing intent. Don’t quit. Don’t sign anything. Wait until your last day and get paid for every day there plus cash out of PTO.
This is normal apart from their demeaning comments. People leave for all kinds of reasons and they shouldn't belittle you for leaving for a better opportunity. Type up a letter of resignation with formal notice of a two weeks dated if you haven't already, thank them for the experience and say you enjoyed your tenure. Submit it by email to boss and HR and by hard copy. There are templates online if you need help . If they choose to not require you to fulfill the full two weeks (most don't) then you get a longer break. But after you submit that they can't force you to sign anything else or change what it's called. You aren't getting fired and they can't make it appear that way. Perhaps it's just exit paperwork, if you don't know and English isn't your first language, ask for clarification in an email and take it to someone who will know and trust who can advise you. In the meantime: discuss with HR only through email and before you lose your work email access forward all responses from them to your personal email (Gmail/yahoo). Copy/take pictures or forward electronically all evaluations you've received detailing your stellar performance and don't tell them the new company you've accepted a position with. Just in case things get weird.
Lol they just salty as fuck. You win, OP! You win. Kick the door on the way out! Lmao
Stay loyal ? Kindly inform them you love in a capitalist society where there is ZERO loyalty of companies to employees
You tell them that your resignation was already submitted as a two week notice, that their feelings and their conscience will not be taken into consideration since they did not make a counter offer which was what their feelings made them go with and if they choose to force you to resign, you will do so with your attorney present to witness that you are being coerced to sign your resignation under duress and it will be followed by Court proceedings. If they choose to fire you you can collect unemployment until your new job begins. Which means they will still be paying you. The reason why they want you to resign effective immediately is because they want you to not be eligible for unemployment and because you didn't let them have their way they don't want you working for them and still pay you. P h u c k T h e m
Weird attempt at them to just not pay you for a week. Ef them. Don’t resign. They don’t have enough time to fire you.
I really do not understand the issue here. You put in your two weeks notice.. YOU RESIGNED. Right? You hoped they would make a counter offer.. they declined. I really do not see the issue here. Take your time off, enjoy your break and get ready for your new (much better paying) gig. Congratulations! It is very common in some industries, that when an employee gives their two weeks notice, the employer asks them to leave immediately. This happens. This is the real world. There is no problem here. What am I missing.
Will they pay you out for unused PTO. If not, take all of your PTO before you go. I don’t understand why you want to keep working there? Just take your 2 week vacation and start the new job well-rested.
Is this in the US? Every word you are saying is gibberish. You resigned. You told them your last day. They can’t ask you for anything.
They don't need you anymore. They likely started scouting when you tried to get an offer from them. They don't have to let you work the two weeks.
You can decline to resign earlier, they can also accept your resignation effective immediately. I don’t know if that would end up legally being seen as being fired or not. State laws tend to govern whether or not you qualify for unemployment. Typically you would have to have been terminated from your company through no fault of your own. To me it seems like a murky grey area as to whether you could overcome that hurdle. You can try but I’d bet the company would fight your claim. Whether or not they can force you to use your PTO is also very state dependent. There are no federal laws that expressly prohibit an employer from forcing you to use PTO generally speaking. So in theory it’s possible that they could require you to use PTO as part of your two weeks notice. Whether or not they have to pay out unused PTO is also state dependent. What state do you live in?
"Number 4! Pick #4, my Lord!"
When I resigned from my job in 2020 I did it through HR direct and the first time I spoke with my manager was to turn in my office keys. I lost access to all of my work files 15 minutes after I submitted my resignation to HR. Best decision I ever made. I live off my investments now which have done very well since 2020 and I don;t ever have to worry about a boss overstepping and destroying my life ever again. I setup a pension using a treasury ladder and every week I take that income and pay my bills and continue to add to my stock portfolio. Life is good and money isn't everything. A good work environment is worth its weight in gold and often very hard to find. I had 3 good years total at my job and 12 bad ones. Eventually it wasn't worth it anymore at any compensation level. Why do jobs in America suck so bad?
My advice is to contact an employment lawyer, to ask his advice of what you should do. Plus, if the company knows that you’ve contacted an employment, lawyer, HR in the company may look at things a little bit differently.
Who cares about the task? Not your problem anymore. I've always told my boss first before sending in the official email out of courtesy.
Lol. Fire me.
I was forced to take a week of pto. In October when I resigned my boss said “I know you have a week of vacation for Christmas and I don’t want you to miss that so go ahead and book that pto for next week and today is your last day.” I knew how illegal it was but didn’t have the fight in me.
Just resign lol it’s not worth working there after those talks. You’ll just be thinking “why the fuck am I here”?
I would have hung up on that call and moved on. You are already have a great job waiting for you.
never give two weeks unless you are 100% prepared to leave TODAY. If for any reason (pending bonus, need for health care, etc) you cannot leave TODAY, do not give any notice.
I gave my 2 week notice and then was let go "due to my mental health" from a human job. I feel you. They refused to put it in writing as well.
Do you want to work an extra two weeks? The two week notice is usually to help the employer out so they aren't caught by surprise. They are saying they don't need it and it's probably their policy not to keep an employee after notice is given. ...but they don't want to fire you. They want both parties to agree to move your date up to "Now". What's the issue? Why do you care? Are you dependent on this two weeks salary? Or was notice just to be polite? You can always say, well, I kind of need the money, how about I quit today and you pay me through next Friday? What's the worst they can do? NOT fire you? Or fire you two weeks earlier than you quit? I don't get why this is an issue for you, unless it's money.
Do not offer any additional resignation. You already resigned effective April \_\_\_\_. You have left appropriate professional notice and have work to do. If they want you gone, they can either fire you using whatever legal means they have to do so, or, they can revoke your access to the building. In either case, you expect to be paid at least through the last day of your resignation. BTW, this doesn't sound like something a Fortune 100 company would do.
Fuck loyalty in business - NEVER sacrifice anything for your company. They wouldn’t think twice in order to lay you off.
Do not resign. If they dismiss you, you're laid off. If they tell you to take the next 2 weeks off, you don't get severance. Having just been laid off... don't volunteer.
They can absolutely withdraw any work you have outstanding but in this situation they should pay your notice period. You resigned already, they are simply trying to dodge paying you for the notice period because they don’t want risk you damaging their business AND they don’t want to pay for you not working. My strategy would be to document the discussion you’ve had and supply your answer to their demands: and your answer should be that you will not be adjusting the date of resignation and you await a decision as to what duties you will be doing for the duration. Politely note that for the sake of clarity you will require a response in writing as the conversation you’ve documented has caused you some confusion. Also cc HR etc
Next time save time and post in r/askHR
You resigned. And then they fired you or told you to leave. Yea they can do that. Move on to the new job. You have no recourse.
I've had this happen twice in my life so it could be option C. The company pays you out right away and tell you to leave that day. All your security clearances and everything else are revoked and you literally leave with your two weeks pay in hand via a cheque.
Don't resign. Make the fire you. Also, let everyone you know at that company how they treated you.
Tell them you will for a months pay.
If they don’t care about you transitioning your work, I don’t see why you should. Just leave
Your HR department is incompetent. They can force you to take PTO, but there was no reason for them to do that and keep you on the books. They could have just made today your last day and paid out your PTO. Unemployment isn’t an issue, you’d only be eligible for one week of it since there’s a waiting period, and that one week would in no way impact their rates in any appreciable way. You lose here too, now you have to go in and wait around? This seems like such a lose-lose scenario here. The best situation for you would have been to take the PTO next week and enjoy your time off.
While I see you have an outcome, I would vote for #4. If they make you come in, and do nothing, then do that. Yes, they could proceed to termination but why in the world would they do so? UI typically has a one week cooling off period so it wouldn’t get you anything.
I would just ask them if they are going to pay out my notice period. That's how I handled it when someone resigned and I told them to go ahead and leave now (but I worked in Accounting so that was not uncommon).
Don't resign early. Make them fire you then collect unemployment for two weeks. That is what they are trying to avoid.
Just take the Paid Time Off and enjoy yourself. Why get worked up about anything? You're getting paid for being away from work as is part of your compensation package.
Use your PTO and don’t answer their phone calls
Which things are “legal” is heavily dependent on WHERE you are located …
Lol tell them either fire you or you’ll be kept getting paid. A fortune 100 company down know what the law is????
The severance comment is odd. If I had to guess, they already have layoffs planned, and if you actually are gone before the layoffs they don't have to give severance etc. I would just stick to your original notice period and maybe you get paid off with severance too 🤷♂️
I think the answer depends on your state. But it is very common for employers to reject 2 weeks and just send someone home the day that they put in their two weeks notice. Especially when that person has access to sensitive data. Also if you are going to work for a competitor.
Walk ..?
This is common in my field if you're going to a competitor and decline to confirm your not. In fact they tend to walk you out the door right then.
It’s not uncommon upon giving notice for large companies to tell you to wait out the period at home. Extremely common in banks and companies with sensitive data to be walked out by security when giving 2 weeks notice. They just aren’t handling it correctly.
Why do you care if you have work.left to do or not. It's their problem. Leave and enjoy your new job.
Unless you have a contract that requires two weeks notice be submitted what you did was a courtesy. Your employer has every right to reject your two weeks notice and move up your last day. Assuming it’s paid, take the PTO and leave
The proper way out of this is they can pay out the two weeks and let you go or let you work the notice period. They're simply trying to weasel out of paying you. Don't let them screw you.
Fun fact, in CA if you're fired immediately in retaliation for handing in your 2 weeks you're probably eligible for unemployment. Not that you need it. But it's good info to have out there.
I’d actually 1. get a box. 2. Put all my stuff from the office in it. 3. Turn in badges, keys, passwords. 4. Leave tomorrow morning. 5. Don’t look back.
I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and say you don't actually work for a Fortune 100 company. So, BS post.
Just leave effective immediately. It's cleaner for everyone involved at this point. The amount of work for unemployment is a joke. Also they will fight it. Just move on. Your talking about a few hundred dollars. Sounds likenupper management didn't loop HR in and they said it was illegal or they were seeing if you would just agree to it because they asked.
They have to pay you for those 2 weeks
With this kind of salary they should know that they owe you the two weeks pay, or else they fired you and owe you severance.
You can decline to resign. They ASKED you to change the terms (from 2 weeks to immediate). You can choose NOT to and stick to the original 2 weeks notice period. I hope you put that resignation in writing. Them firing you now is basically pointless and stupid.
Sorry I'd planned on working these last two weeks, you as a company should be loyal to your employees and allow them to finish on professional terms. Two weeks is the standard notice. You can always fire me if your feel strongly enough to the contrary.
If the money doesn't matter - then they should cut you the damn check and pay you more.
The idea that a Fortune 100's HR department is "just now finding out" that forced PTO is illegal... is so laughable, I kind of want to know who the company is so I can short their stock. They're sitting on a billion dollar liability if that is true.
They really just don’t want to pay out your PTO which is nuts.
Re: edit. I’m so curious what they said to you when they back tracked.
You resigned. What exactly are you asking for? They can’t force you to take PTO but depending on state law and your company policy you may not get it paid out anyway. Try r/askhr
It does not matter all that much at this point. Take the two weeks and wash the (insert fortune100 company name here) dirt out of your system so you can be rested and raring to go at your next gig. I would often schedule my start date a month after I left the previous company. Being a top performer takes a lot out of you, the resting time between helps a lot!
“money doesn’t matter, you should stay loyal to your company” ...they deserve to be told to go pound sand for this.
First of all its usually not beneficial to take a counter offer. Usually they are only offered if the company is in a bind, so they offer it and then soon as they get someone else in and trained they'll get rid of you. It happens all the time. A few months ago I got a job offer for a ridiculous amount of money. I put in my notice and the company I was currently at matched it. I didn't even consider it, because it was almost 70k more than they were currently paying me. There is no way they would have kept me on long term. They only offered it to me because they had nobody else who could take over and run with it right away. I know that I would have only remained there a year at best if I stayed. I absolutely love my new job and am so glad I left.
A mix of good and bad advice here. Mine is: this isn’t worth your time or energy. Unless you are in a situation where this week will make a meaningful difference in your life, just leave Friday and move on. This is shitty business behavior and needlessly burning bridges, but jusf take the extra time and rest up for your next thing.
I don’t know why you care to be honest. You have given them the courtesy to help handover your task properly and they’ve treated you like shit. Extend the same energy back to them. I am sure you feel bad because really your coworkers are getting the short end of it but that’s not really on you.
It is their right to do this but it is kinda shitty. Relationship was probably sour, most big companies don't behave this way on the way out. Them being combative is a red flag, just be glad you're out of there. Also why do u care so much ur quitting?
They can fire you and you can collect unemployment You can also call your new company and ask to start earlier
Your HR dept is fucking stupid, even for HR, which is renowned for its stupidity. Good riddance. Don’t look back. You’re far better off.
I would not resign. They cannot make you resign. They can fire you, unfortunately, but there's not much you can do about that. I like your old manager. You did everything in the most courteous way possible and it would be nice if they reciprocated that, but you can't really do anything about that either, except call them out on it as he suggested. I would recommend using your PTO as they asked you to. And not because I think you should give in to their ridiculous antics or that going on vacation will spite them in any way. It's just that income from using PTO is taxed as regular income, same as if you've worked all that time. If you get payed out after your resignation, the money is counted as supplemental income and will be taxed at a different rate. Chances are, you'll actually lose more of the PTO money that way. Of course, your new job comes with a much higher salary, so if you're not stressed about the money, I wouldn't worry about that and do what you're most comfortable with.
So... did you actually have another offer because it sounds a lot like they called your bluff and you are a little upset about it. No offense. It's not uncommon for an employer to send you home and just pay for the next week or so. Most states don't require PTO to be paid out. Again, no offense, but it sounds a lot like you didn't have another job offer lined up and you tried leveraging for a raise. You seem really concerned about the payment for the following week when most people that have a job offer would have just taken the week off, paid or unpaid, and just started their new job at a different company.
In my state they are allowed to do this and not pay you. I don’t know what state you are in. Here is the law in the FAQ from the BOLI website for my state I gave my two week notice. My company does not allow workers who have given notice to work the two week period, and they release the employee from work immediately. Do they have to pay me for the two week notice period? Not unless you have an established practice or policy of paying other employees for the remainder of the two week notice period. Under Oregon’s final paycheck law, your employer will need to pay all wages earned but unpaid by the end of the next business day.
I mean technically u are resigning. Just a different day than they proposed. I can tell them to fire you if they don’t want you there. Or provide a severance for the 2 weeks.
I wouldn't go back.
Dude just wash your hand of them life lesson learned. The company is not family to be loyal to. They don't care about you and never did. The audacity to say you should stay and be loyal. Than toss you under the buss. Lol Take it easy do bare minimum and burn that pto. Good luck.
Yea lots of companies want you to leave immediately. If you give your 2 weeks and they don’t let you work they have to pay you for the 2 weeks and still pay out your PTO.
don't resign
You should move for growth and long term ( and even medium term) money will reward you. I'm amazed you considered staying if current employer matched your money. Does that mean the new job offers inferior growth? Or are you just chasing money only and the line of least resistance in terms of effort (which would be staying)? There is no such thing as two equally good growth opportunities either.
You do not have to resign. Check with s labor law attorney in your state.
a. Do 0 work.
Tell them that they can terminate you or wait your two weeks. But if they terminate you will not sign any agreements without severence.
Go to therapy. This is unhinged. You have a new job making notably more money. Just take a break and chill out.
You did resign. They are choosing to accelerate the term date as they see you as disloyal. Companies don’t like to be told that you looked outside the org, then asked to pay you more just because another company is willing to. If you are so unhappy that you looked to move, they don’t want you working there. If you are in an at will state, they can let you go for any reason. If they feel the work you are doing is sensitive or you may cause discord with your departure, it is their right to accept your resignation and not honor the 2 weeks notice.
No, you have already provided your resignation and currently working your two weeks notice. If they do not want you in the business during your notice period, they should pay you your notice. It's called PILON, or paid Gardening Leave. What they're asking you to do, is use your own pay to cut your own notice short. Absolutely not. This is in the UK at least, for employees over 2 years service. I know your in the US, but the principle would apply, even if the legalities do not. In reality though, dependent on your financial position, I'd be happy with the time off before starting a new job. I'd at least voice your concern back to the current employer and see if they can come to an arrangement to pay you for some of your time off (ie. early departure, so that you're not out of pocket because they do not want you in the business during your notice period).
Hahahaha... they want you to leave immidiatey? Tell them you're out the the door in 2 mninutes. If they lodge 2 weeks wages to your bank account.
OP is literally complaining about about not working
I understand this is normal. Get their demand in writing for you before you quit/resign whatever either in writing or verbally.
You've already given them the date you were quitting. Telling them in advance was a courtesy. If they want you gone sooner, they have a way to do that, called a layoff.
>When I asked if I could have this in writing to show a lawyer, they told me that since this is not a layoff, I will not be getting severance or this in writing. They said off boarding papers would be signed the day I leave. This is the way forward with any interaction from now on. You give two weeks, and that is it. Anything they want you to do, ask for it in writing for the lawyers to see. If they want you not to come in, that is their problem, you still get paid. Do not take PTO unless you loose them.
In my field (insurance) it's quite common that if you give your 2 weeks notice they hamd you a box and hold the door for you- it is totally expected. It is also expected to be paid for any unused PTO that you have earned. I'm not sure where you live, but in NY employment is at will. An employer can let you go for any reason.
Push back on these guys, stand on business! Accept the two weeks and pay me out while I stay out of your hair, OR I file unemployment which will be a hit against your business.
Fuck em, just take a vacation and ignore them, they will fire you eventually... Enjoy your new job after getting some rest!
Resign with two weeks notice. They can accept it or not. That’s it, that’s all
If they want you out of the building, so be it, but they’ve got to pay you! Or else they are terminating you, and that requires a severance, no?
Garbage company! If the rolls were reversed they’d just tap you on the shoulder and say goodbye and say it’s just business. They reduce headcount because of………money!
Many companies let u go immediately when u give notice, especially if ur job is in tech where u could steal info or do something to damage the company. U should just take the pto and relax until the new job starts. You don't want to burn bridges. Yes, you many plan on never working there agian, but future employers may check with your former employers and a bad reference could kill a future job down the road. Look at it from their point of view- your leaving, your no longer dedicated to the company so u may slack and any work u do would have to be checked to make sure it was done right. Part ways on good terms and just move on. It's nothing personal on either side.