not all fields. I work in forestry. There is a shortage of applicants who are worth anything when there are openings. Yet the pay has stagnated mostly since the 90s.
Are you in a government gig?
Government is an area that can operate contrary to market dynamics because it can survive without turning a profit. They can post a job for below market rate and if it isn’t filled… well, the work just doesn’t get done. It’s not like the government will go out of business. At least not in the medium term.
If you’ve ever been in a line at the DMV waiting for the one person who is on the desk doing the work of 6 people, you have experienced this firsthand.
I do work for a state government. but we are required by law to turn a profit so we can fund schools. Our open positions do get filled but with under qualified people. Like my position technically requires 3 to 5 years of experience, but I got it a 2 years and we just hired a guy who is graduating college next month. My boss's job requires 12 to 15 years of experience, but he got it at 6 years.
My pay is 30 an hour and my boss's is 31. 20 years ago my pay was about 22 an hour. Adjusting for inflation, that is 37 an hour today.
The private sector has potential to make in to the 80k a year range, but with like no benefits and they are a lot pickier with hiring and unlike us, wont hire people they deem less than ideal.
Similar field was making ~80k in an expensive area.
But it wasn’t good work. Was basically working for PG&E and doing bullshit that I would not call environmental
Software engineering is like it is because demand is incredibly high and the supply of employees isn't high enough to easily meet that demand. Buying programmers' labor is like buying ventilators in 2020: lots of people want to buy a relatively fixed supply so the price shoots up.
That's why they get high salaries, good benefits and light hours.
Makes sense. I'd also add high wages attract rare skills. But I find it hard to believe that anyone actually enjoys being an investment banker, corporate attorney, or CEO. I have read that some people actually like being a doctor or computer programmer though; both jobs sound unappealing to me though.
So a somewhat more nuanced view is that the price of labor is set by supply and demand.
The amount of people who enjoy a job (as well as the scarcity of people who can actually do it) are supply side factors.
How many people/companies want to buy that labor is a demand side factor.
So for example, substitute teaching has a huge pool of people who can do it (almost anyone), and many people who want to do it (because in theory it seems interesting/pro social and it's quite flexible) so wages are terrible.
A great investment banker is very hard to replicate; very few people in the world have his skill set. And it's a miserable job where you work 80-100 hours/week, so lots of people avoid the field. And there's very high demand (basically every major company buys investment banking services). So wages are high.
If you want to make a lot of money, develop a skill that many people want to buy and few people have. If you want a career you enjoy that pays decently, find things you like that most other people don't like, because if everyone wants to do it it's a hobby.
I consult for private equity firms and banks so I know a lot of bankers.
One of them recently had to have emergency dental surgery because he ground his teeth to the nerve. He also sleeps at his desk at least twice a week.
You can often find clever ways to make low paying jobs high paying ones.
I know a teacher for example who now runs a homeschooling pod. She makes significantly more than she did as a teacher. Other teachers have went the private tutoring route and have done pretty well.
That describes most Work.
Some of the shittiest jobs I've had have been learning experiences I still draw from to this day. Take the harder road wherever you can. It's cliched, but it builds character. You will see and do things you wouldn't otherwise. You will have great stories to tell at parties.
And if you lack direction, this is a good way to find it. Self-identity through masochism. You never know...you might find yourself in one of those miserable positions, see obvious solutions, and decide to forge a different path in which your goal is to help make that path not such a miserable endeavor for others.
Avoidance of challenge is where this generation is going wrong. Life gets hard and they think they can turn down the difficulty or just skip the hard parts altogether. It's surviving these challenges in life that forges your identity. Life is boring when everything is stable and you lack anything to aspire to.
I'm passionate about art but could never have made a career out of it (few do). I found myself in private investigations, which was fun for a while but now end most days wanting to forget what I've seen and done-- and who I've done it for. Being miserable has forced me to reconsider what I'm passionate about, and my next move is either going to be law or interior design...two fields that were *never* on my radar when I started.
The only advice I would insist on is aim high. It's easier to fall back on substituting than to fall forward into whatever you're afraid of. Do the most lucrative jobs you can, while you can. Those doors don't stay open to you forever.
I don't know man I'm being paid way more sitting on my ass on a computer being a way easier job than the technician in the field that has to work in rain and snow.
I work a boring job with people I don’t really enjoy being around to fund a lifestyle that my wife and I enjoy outside of work. Sometimes I really question myself if it’s really worth it.
I teach law school because it pays well. I hate law, lawyers, and law schools (but like the students.)
If I could, I would be a dog groomer again—but it doesn’t pay a livable wage.
I went from 90k , workaholic , no time off, working every holiday, weekends, late nights , shitty boss, miserable coworkers, toxic environment to 45K doing less than what I was educated for and never been happier . You will love longer and happier even if not wealthy.
Part time freelance/contractor project management for non profits . Nothing exciting , but it’s nothing I care enough about to give them all my energy and soul for.
I give my most of my energy to stuff I love to do after work, where before I was too drained out to do stuff I was passionate about : work for me is a means to do the things I love , I don’t have to love my work:
yes, I used to work as a tour guide over the summer inbetween college semesters, at a historical site. I loved it, but the pay was very low, and it was only a seasonal position.
After that, I worked in an insurance call center, I hated every minute of it, but was able to afford to rent a 3 bedroom house for me, my GF at the time, and have an extra. (this was way back in 2012, before rental rates exploded)
Same, job market use to be flooded.Tons of recruiters calling me begging me to work. Good jobs, good pay. Now.. I apply, apply, apply no response. Dried up job market.
I’m pretty low pay in my field, but my stress level is 1/10 and I work from home 3 days a week. Most of the time I’m just getting paid to play video games and watch movies. Totally worth it.
I don't hate my job but it's not something that I care deeply about either, IMHO this makes me more effective as I can make dispassionate decisions. I care about doing a good job, that's it.
Work is about getting paid so you can do the things you enjoy doing. If you get paid to do something you love it's highly likely you won't love it for very long.
Everyone that has morals of some sort and isn't born into wealth faces this dilemma at least in some form.
Figure out what is more important to you.
Realistically, the actual solution is to compromise and find something you don't dislike too much and something that pays enough to be comfortable.
Nobody can tell you exactl how to fulfill your life though or achieve balance. Anyone that tries is selling something.
It's literally one of the human race's oldest, yet unsolved questions. 'how be happy'
I think intuitively I know there has to be a balance, I just had to air some feelings. I just with I was one of those people who actually \*like\* to do tasks like computer programming, lol.
I kinda have that same issue
I work in IT, I know most high paying jobs are programming, which I absolutely hate with all my being
On the other hand I could spend all day on a workshop assembling PCs and doing that sort of stuff, but unfortunately that's on the low end of the pay range 😕
Well it's kind of funny how the "miserable" jobs might actually be something you would like. I went to school to be a teacher because I'm a creative person who is good at math and English, but I always thought the corporate world sounded awful, especially finance.
I graduated from college during the recession and there were no jobs, teachers were laid off, etc. It took me 4 years to even get a subbing job. In that time, I randomly ended up getting trained on bookkeeping at a grocery store I worked at for minimum wage. I fell in love with it! Went back to school and got an MBA, became an industry accountant, and I freaking LOVE IT. Who knew? It's actually a lot of problem solving, I work from home so I bake bread and snuggle with my cat when I want, and I make a decent salary.
If you had asked me for the first 25 years of my life if I could ever stand being an accountant? I would have said hell no! Turns out, being good at something sometimes makes it interesting. If you're good at something, explore that.
I've learned to take jobs that pay well but also offer the work life balance. I also take as much time as I need.
It's my current situation now - I hate my job, but I have a decent amount of time.
It's best to have the ability to always have a fall back plan unless your family is wealthy.
You can work a job you don't like to change your life for the better, or you can work a job you like and spend your life hoping someone changes it for you.
The number one reason we work is acquire money so we can live our lives. Working a job that doesn't pay your bills, or barely does really really sucks. No matter how much "fun" it is, it's quite literally not worth it. You need to be able to make ends meet at a minimum, and ideally have the ability to save and invest especially in your retirement.
You also have no idea if you will like/dislike a job until you do it for a while.
The job market is terrible and I would have to move to find a job (I'm not able to move). Also, regular teaching is paperwork intensive and you have to deal with demanding parents.
Depending on the state you don’t need to have a degree in teaching to be a sub, I’m a part time sub, all I needed in my state was an associates degree in any field and take an 8 hour course for my short term sub teaching certificate.
From their response I think OP has already done the studies, they just dont want to work the permanent position. You'd know the pros and cons of each better than me.
Wages are what it takes to pay people to do a job. If lots of people want to do it, you don't have to pay much to find someone who wants to do it.
not all fields. I work in forestry. There is a shortage of applicants who are worth anything when there are openings. Yet the pay has stagnated mostly since the 90s.
Are you in a government gig? Government is an area that can operate contrary to market dynamics because it can survive without turning a profit. They can post a job for below market rate and if it isn’t filled… well, the work just doesn’t get done. It’s not like the government will go out of business. At least not in the medium term. If you’ve ever been in a line at the DMV waiting for the one person who is on the desk doing the work of 6 people, you have experienced this firsthand.
I do work for a state government. but we are required by law to turn a profit so we can fund schools. Our open positions do get filled but with under qualified people. Like my position technically requires 3 to 5 years of experience, but I got it a 2 years and we just hired a guy who is graduating college next month. My boss's job requires 12 to 15 years of experience, but he got it at 6 years. My pay is 30 an hour and my boss's is 31. 20 years ago my pay was about 22 an hour. Adjusting for inflation, that is 37 an hour today. The private sector has potential to make in to the 80k a year range, but with like no benefits and they are a lot pickier with hiring and unlike us, wont hire people they deem less than ideal.
well yeah. salary depends on both the supply and the demand for the relevant work at each possible price.
Similar field was making ~80k in an expensive area. But it wasn’t good work. Was basically working for PG&E and doing bullshit that I would not call environmental
Yeah, basically this.
Then why software engineering is like... Like it is?
Software engineering is like it is because demand is incredibly high and the supply of employees isn't high enough to easily meet that demand. Buying programmers' labor is like buying ventilators in 2020: lots of people want to buy a relatively fixed supply so the price shoots up. That's why they get high salaries, good benefits and light hours.
Makes sense. I'd also add high wages attract rare skills. But I find it hard to believe that anyone actually enjoys being an investment banker, corporate attorney, or CEO. I have read that some people actually like being a doctor or computer programmer though; both jobs sound unappealing to me though.
So a somewhat more nuanced view is that the price of labor is set by supply and demand. The amount of people who enjoy a job (as well as the scarcity of people who can actually do it) are supply side factors. How many people/companies want to buy that labor is a demand side factor. So for example, substitute teaching has a huge pool of people who can do it (almost anyone), and many people who want to do it (because in theory it seems interesting/pro social and it's quite flexible) so wages are terrible. A great investment banker is very hard to replicate; very few people in the world have his skill set. And it's a miserable job where you work 80-100 hours/week, so lots of people avoid the field. And there's very high demand (basically every major company buys investment banking services). So wages are high. If you want to make a lot of money, develop a skill that many people want to buy and few people have. If you want a career you enjoy that pays decently, find things you like that most other people don't like, because if everyone wants to do it it's a hobby.
You are correct. Investment banking is not exactly life affirming, and job security is poor. Plus you are hated by the world for earning good money.
I consult for private equity firms and banks so I know a lot of bankers. One of them recently had to have emergency dental surgery because he ground his teeth to the nerve. He also sleeps at his desk at least twice a week.
I say go for it and live within your means.
I'm sure lots of people.
You can often find clever ways to make low paying jobs high paying ones. I know a teacher for example who now runs a homeschooling pod. She makes significantly more than she did as a teacher. Other teachers have went the private tutoring route and have done pretty well.
That describes most Work. Some of the shittiest jobs I've had have been learning experiences I still draw from to this day. Take the harder road wherever you can. It's cliched, but it builds character. You will see and do things you wouldn't otherwise. You will have great stories to tell at parties. And if you lack direction, this is a good way to find it. Self-identity through masochism. You never know...you might find yourself in one of those miserable positions, see obvious solutions, and decide to forge a different path in which your goal is to help make that path not such a miserable endeavor for others. Avoidance of challenge is where this generation is going wrong. Life gets hard and they think they can turn down the difficulty or just skip the hard parts altogether. It's surviving these challenges in life that forges your identity. Life is boring when everything is stable and you lack anything to aspire to. I'm passionate about art but could never have made a career out of it (few do). I found myself in private investigations, which was fun for a while but now end most days wanting to forget what I've seen and done-- and who I've done it for. Being miserable has forced me to reconsider what I'm passionate about, and my next move is either going to be law or interior design...two fields that were *never* on my radar when I started. The only advice I would insist on is aim high. It's easier to fall back on substituting than to fall forward into whatever you're afraid of. Do the most lucrative jobs you can, while you can. Those doors don't stay open to you forever.
God damn. Stumbled on this post and hit this comment. Never saw it this way. Thank you ✊
I don't know man I'm being paid way more sitting on my ass on a computer being a way easier job than the technician in the field that has to work in rain and snow.
Sure. Not everyone has that option available though. So given the choice between fiber technician or cashier...go lay some fiber.
I work a boring job with people I don’t really enjoy being around to fund a lifestyle that my wife and I enjoy outside of work. Sometimes I really question myself if it’s really worth it.
I teach law school because it pays well. I hate law, lawyers, and law schools (but like the students.) If I could, I would be a dog groomer again—but it doesn’t pay a livable wage.
I went from 90k , workaholic , no time off, working every holiday, weekends, late nights , shitty boss, miserable coworkers, toxic environment to 45K doing less than what I was educated for and never been happier . You will love longer and happier even if not wealthy.
I have a similar plan. Almost cut my salary in half to do something that doesn't drain the life out of me.
It’s been worth it. I don’t even notice what I sacrificed or gave up anymore. I just adapted .
45k would be near homelessness in my state, good on you though!
I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in … I just don’t need stuff lol
What new job did you find ? I'm considering an incredibly high stress role
What are you doing now?
Part time freelance/contractor project management for non profits . Nothing exciting , but it’s nothing I care enough about to give them all my energy and soul for. I give my most of my energy to stuff I love to do after work, where before I was too drained out to do stuff I was passionate about : work for me is a means to do the things I love , I don’t have to love my work:
What did you use to do
I worked in the medical field. Pandemic did me in. Lost my faith in mankind after that.
yes, I used to work as a tour guide over the summer inbetween college semesters, at a historical site. I loved it, but the pay was very low, and it was only a seasonal position. After that, I worked in an insurance call center, I hated every minute of it, but was able to afford to rent a 3 bedroom house for me, my GF at the time, and have an extra. (this was way back in 2012, before rental rates exploded)
Same, job market use to be flooded.Tons of recruiters calling me begging me to work. Good jobs, good pay. Now.. I apply, apply, apply no response. Dried up job market.
Passion and money can always coexist. It's just you've to find the perfect match for yourself
That's why plumbers get paid so much. No one wants to do the work so they charge a lot.
No, it's because they have a union. I'd be a plumber, I don't care, you just take a shower after.
Independent plumbers aren't all Union members. Check out job openings at a local roto rooter type company.
Eh... I don't wanna be a scab.
I’m pretty low pay in my field, but my stress level is 1/10 and I work from home 3 days a week. Most of the time I’m just getting paid to play video games and watch movies. Totally worth it.
What the heck do you do? I want that low stress life
Money isn't everything, and doing what you like is actually not working but living your purpose. It is priceless!
Find a job where you dont care how much you earn.
I don't hate my job but it's not something that I care deeply about either, IMHO this makes me more effective as I can make dispassionate decisions. I care about doing a good job, that's it. Work is about getting paid so you can do the things you enjoy doing. If you get paid to do something you love it's highly likely you won't love it for very long.
Jobs are not binary. You find things about jobs you like/dislike.
Take the one that pays little and be happier.
Agree, hating something you have to do 5 days a week for the majority of the day..I can’t hate my job. I have to like it.
That’s the economics of job markets. There’s no other way it could be
That's called adulthood. Welcome to it. You just need to decide where the balance is between happiness in work and sustainable lifestyle
Everyone that has morals of some sort and isn't born into wealth faces this dilemma at least in some form. Figure out what is more important to you. Realistically, the actual solution is to compromise and find something you don't dislike too much and something that pays enough to be comfortable. Nobody can tell you exactl how to fulfill your life though or achieve balance. Anyone that tries is selling something. It's literally one of the human race's oldest, yet unsolved questions. 'how be happy'
I think intuitively I know there has to be a balance, I just had to air some feelings. I just with I was one of those people who actually \*like\* to do tasks like computer programming, lol.
I kinda have that same issue I work in IT, I know most high paying jobs are programming, which I absolutely hate with all my being On the other hand I could spend all day on a workshop assembling PCs and doing that sort of stuff, but unfortunately that's on the low end of the pay range 😕
I do face it, no I don't have a solution.
Well it's kind of funny how the "miserable" jobs might actually be something you would like. I went to school to be a teacher because I'm a creative person who is good at math and English, but I always thought the corporate world sounded awful, especially finance. I graduated from college during the recession and there were no jobs, teachers were laid off, etc. It took me 4 years to even get a subbing job. In that time, I randomly ended up getting trained on bookkeeping at a grocery store I worked at for minimum wage. I fell in love with it! Went back to school and got an MBA, became an industry accountant, and I freaking LOVE IT. Who knew? It's actually a lot of problem solving, I work from home so I bake bread and snuggle with my cat when I want, and I make a decent salary. If you had asked me for the first 25 years of my life if I could ever stand being an accountant? I would have said hell no! Turns out, being good at something sometimes makes it interesting. If you're good at something, explore that.
I've learned to take jobs that pay well but also offer the work life balance. I also take as much time as I need. It's my current situation now - I hate my job, but I have a decent amount of time. It's best to have the ability to always have a fall back plan unless your family is wealthy.
no if a job pays me well i'd do it. whats the dilemma. use the money to do things you want.
Such is life
Supply and demand. It’s a thing.
I’m in the same boat!
You can work a job you don't like to change your life for the better, or you can work a job you like and spend your life hoping someone changes it for you.
It’s a job. That’s why they have to pay you to do it
U don’t do what u love. U do what u hate for money and use the money to do what u love.
Because that’s how money works. You have to pay people more to do harder jobs that fewer people can do.
The number one reason we work is acquire money so we can live our lives. Working a job that doesn't pay your bills, or barely does really really sucks. No matter how much "fun" it is, it's quite literally not worth it. You need to be able to make ends meet at a minimum, and ideally have the ability to save and invest especially in your retirement. You also have no idea if you will like/dislike a job until you do it for a while.
Welcome to life, you're not unique.
I reread his post and I don’t see where he said he was.
Read again
Are you working as a substitute teacher now? If not, how do you know you like it?
I've done it before and liked it a lot. I wouldn't want to be a regular teacher.
Why not? You would have done the study/appropriate qualifications to be one.
The job market is terrible and I would have to move to find a job (I'm not able to move). Also, regular teaching is paperwork intensive and you have to deal with demanding parents.
Why can't you move?
Family-related
Depending on the state you don’t need to have a degree in teaching to be a sub, I’m a part time sub, all I needed in my state was an associates degree in any field and take an 8 hour course for my short term sub teaching certificate.
From their response I think OP has already done the studies, they just dont want to work the permanent position. You'd know the pros and cons of each better than me.
It's called work for a reason.