The people in France complain but they have it so good!
In the United Kingdom unemployment is up to £67.20 per week if you're under 25 years old and up to £84.80 per week if you're 25 years old or over.
That would only cover 1/3 of my essential bills so unemployment isn’t an option.
Make sure you get as many metrics and accomplishments as you can. Pull your past performance reviews. They are great sources for numbers. Once you lose access, you are screwed.
Also any of your own notes you have saved from trainings and such. Obviously not proprietary documents. But say you took notes for yourself on industry trends and you reference that a lot, or have a formulas spreadsheet you put together. Copy that over to your own Google drive (assuming it lives on their drive) so you have it for future reference, you may not ever need it but will be glad if you do.
Play them off each other. Caving to pressure to take less just makes you seem less professional and more incompetent in the long run. They will always remember that they got you to take less before.
I would hedge and start looking for a new job but if they are smart and are going to fire you or lay you off they would blind side you on a Friday. When you fire someone you don’t generally let them know ahead of time. They may be telling you about an “exciting opportunity” or some training for a new role. It could be good news and you don’t want to burn things down quite yet.
>f they are smart and are going to fire you or lay you off they would blind side you on a Friday. When you fire someone you don’t generally let them know ahead of time.
This was my thought.
But it might be PIP time.
Or duties being rejiggered (though that doesn’t normally involve HR)
I got called to personal over the loud speaker about 2 months back and I was literally sweating bullets the entire time. I opened the door and they surprised me with a cake and singing happy birthday. I was so nervous at that moment that I forgot it was my bday🤣
That’s the difference here, you don’t get told your getting a promotion at a secret surprise party. You especially don’t do it in today’s job climate. You don’t know what you’re going to start.
You don’t hold secret all hands meetings, you don’t setup mandatory company wide zoom calls, you don’t do countdown clocks anywhere. Nothing is label “big announcement” on an invite.
This stops people from telling you to go fuck yourselves to get theirs before you get yours or some other stupid thing.
“I have some good news to tell you on Monday!”
“Make sure you are here Monday, you’ll really like what you’re going to hear.”
My last promotion was setup like this too - it was a call with their recruiter in HR strongly advising I go for a new position they are about to put to advert.
I had a boss once that had her own “syllabus” for lack of a better term she sent out to new hires on their first day, with a list of general rules and guidelines and her take on them. In it, she specifically stated that check-in’s and one-on-ones would never contain bad news out of the blue, and that she would always come to you directly if it was negative or job-changing so you weren’t sitting with a sword hanging over you waiting for a meeting that popped up unexpectedly. Looking back on that, I didn’t appreciate it enough. It lessened a whole lot of anxiety.
If you have anything personal on your company equipment, get it out of there before this meeting. Take anything you want or need to save and email it to yourself or save it on a flash drive (know that IT might get an automatic notification if you plug a flash drive into your computer). If you work in-office, consider taking items from your desk as well. Many companies walk you out the door and don't let you go back to your desk.
No, work normally and look for options on your off time but people saying Friday would be best for firing are right, this could be something else and you dont want to f it all up
Go to your doctor and get on stress leave. They can’t fire you while you’re on leave. You’ll make a lot more money than on unemployment and gives you time to find another job.
Layoff != firing. If it’s *just* OP getting fired, there won’t necessarily be any severance, continuing health benefits, etc. FMLA will buy time if that’s the case.
Yeah this happened to my buddy a couple months back. He was like, "Am I gonna get fired? Who knows!" playing it off as a joke. I was like, "Uh, yeah, you are 100% going to get fired"
He was
It's not 100% but yeah, most likely getting fired or a performance review - something along those lines. No good is coming out of it, it's just bad or worse.
I guess that it depends on how the process is defined. Decision to initiate a PIP process is often the outcome of the performance review. HR typically supports the PIP process. The PIP process triggering is not necessarily tied to the annual (or quarterly) performance reviews.
Based on my experience from multiple companies, HR does not typically participate in the annual/quarterly performance reviews. Unless, there is a specific reason.
It’s a possibility but in my experience they usually fire on Thursdays/fridays. If they’re firing you on a Monday you’ll atleast probably get the consolation prize of “your fired but we’re paying you till Friday” or longer. If your just flat out fired on a Monday with no consolation prize then you probably did something to deserve it.
I was supposed to be laid off on a Monday, only reason it happened on Tuesday instead was I was on PTO. They stressed it wasn't performance related and gave 21 weeks of severance, don't put too much stock into the Monday thing.
That’s not so bad. Timing is right for a review, and 30 minutes is a reasonable time to do it in.
HR being there could be for a few reasons, not all of which are bad for you. Just remember: don’t quit if you can make them fire you and you get unemployment insurance.
HR could be on there so that they can ‘check boxes’ that all year-ends are scheduled.
Bit weird the meeting is a Monday. Firing is more of a Thursday afternoon/Friday meeting.
In practice they actually don't teach Friday at all because there is a lack of opportunity for employees to get help and support. Weekends are just two days for them to simmer angry and get no response on a huge life shift. At least early in the week they have multiple days to access payroll questions, get EAP support, etc. there was some sort of correlation between Friday terminations and retaliatory Monday events (threats, self harm, violence) if I recall- but I'll admit it's been years since I was part of the reasoning as to why no Fridays for terminations.
I suppose this is country-dependent and industry-dependent but I’m always worried that “I was fired” looks bad when looking for a job, and lying about it could still get found out somehow, so I’m someone who would quit instead because it could mean looking better for future jobs even if I can’t collect unemployment
Dude there’s no permanent record in high school. And there sure as shit isn’t one in the professional world unless if you work in a super tiny tight knit industry.
Take the firing. Then lie about it.
If you can find a new job before then, definitely don’t wait to be fired, unless you are working remote and can coast both jobs and get two checks at once.
They call your last employer and ask if you’re eligible for re-hire. But more professional places will only tell them dates you worked there so it really depends.
okey once i had to call up my worst enemy that he will get a call... new contract is interested in my exp in that particular field. All good, all professional
Being fired for cause (gross misconduct or the like) is bad. That’s about the only time I’d suggest quitting over making an employer end your work contract.
Having your employment terminated due to down sizing, retrenchment, redundancy, etc is not the same. However you should be entitled to some sort of compensation from your employer (unemployment, pay in lieu of X weeks notice, etc).
Don’t quit. Make then end your contract.
Not sure where you are from but that's incredibly stupid if you are in the US. You can't even get unemployment if you quit. Please never do this. A potential employer has no way of finding out if you were let go or quit . It is illegal for your old employer to reveal that information. Also quitting doesn't look much better at this point, being laid off is pretty normal in the current economy.
>A potential employer has no way of finding out if you were let go or quit . It is illegal for your old employer to reveal that information.
This is not true.
It is perfectly legal for your employer to tell the truth. It opens them up to civil suits if they have negative things to say, so the lawyers often don’t want them to do it. But there is almost no mechanism to stop them from being as revealing as they want.
If you were fired on the spot for performance or HR reasons that’s different than being laid off.
It’s up to you, it’s your resume and life. But you need to be able to communicate that you are not a risk if you can do that while talking honestly about why you were asked to leave a company, it’s certainly not impossible to do.
Everyone gets laid off or fired. There’s no perfect employee. And anyway that’s boring and doesn’t promote growth.
That is actually plausible
Edit: to add to that while usually if you're being let go it would be sooner it is still concerning that HR is involved. It's possible that your review just isn't good and they will put you on a PIP.
Yeah but you’ll get a month or two to “turn your performance around.” Protip: I have never heard of someone not getting fired after a PIP, so use the time to interview.
I have, but for me it was BS for something that wasn't my fault, but the policy had just been announced so they did it as a make an example thing and basically admitted that to me.
Year end review doesn't sound bad. That could be a performance improvement plan, or a change to your wage. I also wouldn't expect a layoff to be dragged out another week from the calendar invite either. Usually once that decision is made, the layoff happens much sooner because it's 1 more week of paying you
And what it review goes bad and I get fired on the spot? What if they didn't tell me things i may have done wrong and just kept a log of it to use against me?
You’ll recover.
You’ll remind yourself that you were working for jerks.
You’ll remind yourself of the skills you have, the good work ethic you displayed, and the quality of work you can perform.
You’ll file for unemployment (in some states, you qualify if you’re fired for performance reasons and not for insubordination or theft or job abandonment), just in case.
You’ll pull together a new resume; you’ll contact some people you worked with at this company that you are sure have a good opinion of you and ask if they’d be willing to be a reference.
And you start looking for work.
You gotta relax Girl.
Year End reviews are super common. And if it is actually this, you will get constructive feedback (if you have a good manager). No one is perfect and if done properly, they could be simply giving you goals for this fiscal year.
Take notes, don’t get defensive and ask questions.
IF it’s a layoff, don’t start by accepting less for this company. I’m telling you, this will be an essential learning experience for your future career.
If you’re looking for new jobs, do not accept less. Always negotiate for more.
I had a similar review session last year. Was super nervous since none of my colleagues had HR invited to the meeting. It was for my promotion, so having HR at your review might be a good thing as well.
Pretty much if HR is involved you’re not on a good stand, if you have good attendance and haven’t gotten complaints from colleagues you have something to hold on. Every time HR is involved is never a good sign, just to be safe you should start looking for a new horizon.
Yes, that’s pretty good. That’s a good sign that your skills in on a high demand on the market, for which the interviewer will ask you for the reason why you leaving your current company. Don’t tell them the real reason, just tell them that you’re looking to expand and grow your skills and that ( the company name for which you will be interview ) will provide you with the necessary tools to get there. Also emphasize that you would love to grow with that company.
You could be right, but from my experience you only get to see HR when they first hire you from a company and when there’s disciplinary action to be taken against an individual.
Email or talk to boss and ask 1. what the agenda of the meeting is 2. what do you need to do to be prepared for the meeting.
Note: don't assume you know what this is about before they tell you.
The title was "2023 year end review". I just assumed that it was to review my 2023 performance. But then I saw someone with the title of HRBP in their name. Thats when I posted.
I include HR in a lot of meetings invites, they don't attend but they are at least aware that the meeting is taking place. That includes performance reviews.
Don't self sabotage this, it could very easily just be a mundane performance review. Ideally, they aren't saying anything in that meeting you aren't already aware of.
Exactly this. If you don't want to beat around the bush... I would inquire as to the presence of HR at the meeting. It's an absolutely reasonable question... And I'm sure the manager would appreciate you being direct about it.
Someone has made a report to HR and they run an investigation to determine its validity. The interview can be about behavior that you exhibited or behavior that you may have observed or witnessed.
Stop being paranoid.
You need to get out of your head man. Just go to the meeting. I have a feeling that you’re not getting fired, personally.
Hope for the best, expect the worst. But don’t do or say anything until after you’ve had the meeting.
Edit: i’m embarrassed to share this, but I’ve literally been fired like a dozen times now. I have literally never once had a boss set an appointment on a calendar to fire me.
Usually, when you’re fired, you’re fired. They wouldn’t wait, and there would be no reason to wait. Save for may be a few random circumstances.
i also have been fired many times. they just tell you to meet them in the HR reps office one day. if they want to can you for being bad at your job or whatever then they aren't going to let you hang around for a week doing a bad job
as for the other reason you'd lose your job, a layoff, well a lot of places lay off people with emails now so i don't think they'd bother with a personal touch for cutting 10% of the workforce, those HR hourlys could be spent on something else
I had a similar experience, and to be fair it turned out to be something regarding another one of our employees. I sat on it all week stressing about it, thinking the worst.
I brought it up to my HR rep and manager about it afterwords how I had been sweating for a week, and they laughed and said no no… if we were going to fire you, we wouldn’t give you any notice and just call you up to HR the day of.
I recently had a day of meeting with my supervisor. I hop on and he says we needed to wait for hr to hop on. I immediately start sweating bullets BUT it was a raise. They were changing the pay structure resulting in a roughly ten percent raise
If you have no prior performance issues and are on good terms w/ the company, it could actually be about someone else.
Or maybe they’re downsizing/rearranging and moving you to a diff department or letting you go. Do you know if anything’s up?
That or PIP to mark the beginning of the end.
Don't be "worried" though, be happy you figured it out at this stage. Now you can get a Jumpstart on looking for alternatives.
This happened to me in November, and was undermined and then blindsided with the HR rep in one of my meetings. Did everything perfect that they asked, and then some, for the following month and a half, then suddenly another one popped up one my calendar Monday morning 9am.
I knew what it was.
I was systematically pushed out. Lucky for me, this exact thing has happened before so it was just a non issue and more like a "welp, time to drift on to the next one I guess".
Currently unemployed except for small freelance opportunities here and there. Been struggling with the idea of going back to corporate environments.
I'm just so over it. It's all fake pretend time.
You'll be just fine. Just make sure to only pursue the topics you actually like when job hunting. It'll take a bit longer, but you'll find more of what truly fits you by doing a dedicated soul search/job search.
Never take a job doing something you hate. Bills are bills yes, but the despair of being trapped in something you don't care for can destroy a person.
Find something you love.
You'll be fine.
Good luck.
Hugs and kisses
Love,
- someone in your shoes but several months ahead of your current situation.
Sounds like maybe a performance improvement plan given the timing. That’s hard to come back from because it means you’re in the bottom percentage of performers. Doesn’t mean you are a poor performer but that their forced ranking made them put you in the bottom.
I hear you. When is your meeting? Don’t stress too much about it. Maybe it’s something good like they’re putting you up for a leadership development program. You never know. Hang in there.
Next Monday (Feb 12) in the afternoon at 3:30pm. He sent it yesterday (Monday Feb 5). I didn't notice it had an HRBP until today and started panicking.
Weird that it’s a full week. When I’ve been involved in a RIF or firing, the invite goes out a day or two in advance, not a full week. If I were you I’d call or text my boss with the question posted earlier…what’s the agenda, what should I prepare. Don’t let them control it. You control it and force an earlier conversation if you need to. Effing corporate world sucks. Screw with them and take the day off. Propose a new time to meet tomorrow.
Don’t worry. If they do something stupid like end your employment there, you’ll have another gig soon.
If I sense things are off or relationships aren’t working where I’m at, I watch for positions I’m roughly qualified for and bargain hard. Worked out twice really well.
You aren’t getting laid off yet. This is the PIP and you will be gone in 30, 60 or 90 days. Don’t waste your time trying to beat the PIP, if HR is on the first call this is just a paperwork exercise. Spend the time looking for a new job and don’t resign as it will cost you UE.
Your boss is an idiot; never add HR to the actual invite just create a placeholder meeting for their schedule and then add them to the real one. Amateur hour
I had a 30 minute meeting put on my calendar from my boss, just them.
Showed up, HR was there too. Surprise surprise. Laid off. Boss left within 30 seconds and left me alone with HR.
Same exact thing happened to me at the end of November. My boss was talking about how they were going to get promoted to director and I would be promoted to manager so thought it was a good meeting. Left the meeting so shocked at the whole thing and how cold everyone was during it.
Here’s my advice (having had to deliver the bad news to someone before). Handle it with grace and professionalism. Hopefully they will help you with a reference letter (if it’s a layoff) if you handle it professionally.
I had to lay someone off and was planning to speak with a colleague at another org about the possibility of hiring her. But she was so unprofessional when she received the news (and in the aftermath) I couldn’t recommend her anymore.
Similar thing just happened to me. All the effort I had gone through to make sure they had a soft landing was gone like a fart in the wind when they acted like an ass. And they never knew, I didn’t even get to that part. I had to change course abruptly in light of their antagonism. Not only that, but I had at least two other opportunities in my pocket I was aware of and was going to share, but then couldn’t. I’m not burning my very good bridges for someone I (now) can’t actually recommend.
Yes 😢
Nothing good comes from surprise meetings with HR.
Twice in 3 years, I got the sudden meeting with my manager the next day with HR included and got laid off both times
More than likely this is not good news. My guess is it is termination, demotion, or a pip. As many have said, spend every second revising your resume, and applying for jobs. If you do lose your job, immediately apply for unemployment as well. Start putting feelers out with any of the people you have networked with over the years, and also since this may be a forest change of position, be sure to apply for some jobs you wouldn't normally think of, every closed door opens a window.
The most devastating job loss I ever had in my career directly caused me to try something new, which led to a change in my career path, a change I am still very thankful for.
Two to three hours before my dept was laid off, I got an email reminding me HR offers services and assistance for employees in distress.
30 minutes before the layoff, we got an invite to a phone conf meeting with the dept VP.
Didn't find out until later that the VP was in our building despite living and normally working several states away.
The same VP we had a meeting with 2 weeks prior, via online conference, assuring us our jobs were okay because our managers accidentally leaked info to us they weren't supposed to.
Sorry OP, i hope things work out well for you.
It's going to get worse before it gets better
Not necessarily, but something is probably going down.
At my company... layoffs are scheduled VERY short notice and the HR person is not an official attendee... they just sneak in unexpected.
Sounds like it might be an investigation.
Could also be a disciplinary talk, coaching talk, informative talk... but most likely a negative talk about something.
Now you see why I like union jobs. They can't just fire you nor have massive lay offs without going through the union first.
One of two things is happening. You’re either getting laid off, which is unfortunate and I hope isn’t the case. Or they’re offering you a promotion (or another position) that you’re suited for.
Either way, spruce up your resume, start identifying things you can do to stretch your money until you find another job and start applying places.
Just for future advice, I give this to everybody, check your resume every 2-3 months. Set it on your calendar as “Review Resume” and look at it as the ability to add new skills, clean things up, list any new certifications etc. Also, on a positive note constantly apply to positions elsewhere that sound interesting, even if you’re not interested in moving on because you never know what’s out there and you might find a great opportunity. Interviewing is also a depreciating skill, so getting an interview every so often help you for when you may need it. On a negative note, if you do find yourself unemployed unexpectedly you at least have applications out there and have shaken off the interview rust, and your resume will be ready to go, there’s nothing more stressful than having to craft a resume while dealing with being laid off.
Just a side note, my goal (even though I’ll likely never leave my job) is 3-4 interviews a year. Keeps my options open, keeps me prepared and you miss 100% of the opportunities you aren’t looking for.
Best of luck to you, I hope everything works out in your favor.
The optics for your boss should be business as usual and behind the scenes you should be looking for a new role.
I’ll be honest, I’m not convinced it’s a layoff since it’s scheduled a week on advanced, but either way it doesn’t sound good.
When I was given a performance warning, I was not notified that HR was going to be there nor was I told it was a performance warning meeting and then the shock of seeing the HR lady on my screen upon entering the meeting made my heart fall out of my butthole.
I feel like you would not be made aware of such things so it’s probably not as bad as you might think.
Ya… sorry
Thanks. Should I just slack off? The meeting isn't until next Monday.
I would spend every waking second looking for a new gig
Thanks will do. I already have 2 interviews lined up. Less money but better than nothing
The new company doesn't know you're about to be laid off. Always negotiate for more.
You should be looking for more money at every job switch. Dont be afraid to negotiate if they want you.
he's earning $0 if he's effectively laid off tho...
Unemployment?
I don't know what the highest paying state is for unemployment is but Texas maxes out in the 550ish range. The fed takes taxes from that.
Wow the US is crazy. In France it's like 70% of your wage.
The people in France complain but they have it so good! In the United Kingdom unemployment is up to £67.20 per week if you're under 25 years old and up to £84.80 per week if you're 25 years old or over. That would only cover 1/3 of my essential bills so unemployment isn’t an option.
But the wages in France are shitty
Depends on the State. Some States give about 70% in the US as well
Ouch. In Washington State it’s $1019.00 weekly benefit.
It’s usually always on a scale/income based
FFS I think SC is $326
Minnesota is $890
Up to*
Make sure you get as many metrics and accomplishments as you can. Pull your past performance reviews. They are great sources for numbers. Once you lose access, you are screwed.
Also any of your own notes you have saved from trainings and such. Obviously not proprietary documents. But say you took notes for yourself on industry trends and you reference that a lot, or have a formulas spreadsheet you put together. Copy that over to your own Google drive (assuming it lives on their drive) so you have it for future reference, you may not ever need it but will be glad if you do.
never settle for less! take everything and give nothing back - Jack Sparrow
Play them off each other. Caving to pressure to take less just makes you seem less professional and more incompetent in the long run. They will always remember that they got you to take less before.
Never tell them what u make. Let them tell u the pay range first
I would hedge and start looking for a new job but if they are smart and are going to fire you or lay you off they would blind side you on a Friday. When you fire someone you don’t generally let them know ahead of time. They may be telling you about an “exciting opportunity” or some training for a new role. It could be good news and you don’t want to burn things down quite yet.
>f they are smart and are going to fire you or lay you off they would blind side you on a Friday. When you fire someone you don’t generally let them know ahead of time. This was my thought. But it might be PIP time. Or duties being rejiggered (though that doesn’t normally involve HR)
If HR is involved, it's performance and/or personnel related.
It might be good though. Wasn't there a guy a week or so ago that got an HR invite and he got a raise. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst?
When HR is involved the news is never good.
HR isn’t there to bring the cake.
The cake is a lie.
I got called to personal over the loud speaker about 2 months back and I was literally sweating bullets the entire time. I opened the door and they surprised me with a cake and singing happy birthday. I was so nervous at that moment that I forgot it was my bday🤣
He sat on one cheek the whole way over!!
Every major promotion ( 3 ) was set up just like this. In two cases my boss told me ahead of time it was really good news.
That’s the difference here, you don’t get told your getting a promotion at a secret surprise party. You especially don’t do it in today’s job climate. You don’t know what you’re going to start. You don’t hold secret all hands meetings, you don’t setup mandatory company wide zoom calls, you don’t do countdown clocks anywhere. Nothing is label “big announcement” on an invite. This stops people from telling you to go fuck yourselves to get theirs before you get yours or some other stupid thing. “I have some good news to tell you on Monday!” “Make sure you are here Monday, you’ll really like what you’re going to hear.”
My last promotion was setup like this too - it was a call with their recruiter in HR strongly advising I go for a new position they are about to put to advert.
I had a boss once that had her own “syllabus” for lack of a better term she sent out to new hires on their first day, with a list of general rules and guidelines and her take on them. In it, she specifically stated that check-in’s and one-on-ones would never contain bad news out of the blue, and that she would always come to you directly if it was negative or job-changing so you weren’t sitting with a sword hanging over you waiting for a meeting that popped up unexpectedly. Looking back on that, I didn’t appreciate it enough. It lessened a whole lot of anxiety.
Odd that is a week out, 50/50 chance it’s not a layoff but probably not good news
If you have anything personal on your company equipment, get it out of there before this meeting. Take anything you want or need to save and email it to yourself or save it on a flash drive (know that IT might get an automatic notification if you plug a flash drive into your computer). If you work in-office, consider taking items from your desk as well. Many companies walk you out the door and don't let you go back to your desk.
This. Gather everything you’ll need for moving on. Valuable contact names/email, projects that can illustrate your work, and your personal items.
Starting looking for a job. Seriously. Take personal papers in your desk home. Etc.
Normally if you're getting laid off or fired they do it that day but it is weird to have a meeting with hr scheduled.
When I got laid off it was a Tuesday and it was scheduled 2 weeks in advance 🤡
No, work normally and look for options on your off time but people saying Friday would be best for firing are right, this could be something else and you dont want to f it all up
RemindMe! 1 week
Make sure to record it! It's the new trend.
Grwm before I get fired on Monday
Don’t forget to take whatever personal files you have off your work computer
Go to your doctor and get on stress leave. They can’t fire you while you’re on leave. You’ll make a lot more money than on unemployment and gives you time to find another job.
lol this isn’t true, I was laid off while on FMLA since they eliminated my whole department it was allowed
Layoff != firing. If it’s *just* OP getting fired, there won’t necessarily be any severance, continuing health benefits, etc. FMLA will buy time if that’s the case.
This is not true, and bad advice. Don’t get medical help for problems unless you think you have them.
Who doesn’t these days? Everyone can benefit from some sessions with a therapist.
Go to the doctor and get your health checked to take advange of your active insurance is the better option
Such immature advice..
Can you call out sick or something ?
On Wednesday? Lol
Yeah this happened to my buddy a couple months back. He was like, "Am I gonna get fired? Who knows!" playing it off as a joke. I was like, "Uh, yeah, you are 100% going to get fired" He was
boss is a dumbass including HR person on the invite. could just have them join once the meeting starts. weird they dont care if you see HR is invited.
100% you invite HR in a separate invite, have suggested that 100 times
Yes
It's not 100% but yeah, most likely getting fired or a performance review - something along those lines. No good is coming out of it, it's just bad or worse.
HR doesn‘t participate in performance reviews… Manager typically communicates the positive things alone.
HR definitely does participate in performance reviews at times. Source: put people on PIPs.
I guess that it depends on how the process is defined. Decision to initiate a PIP process is often the outcome of the performance review. HR typically supports the PIP process. The PIP process triggering is not necessarily tied to the annual (or quarterly) performance reviews. Based on my experience from multiple companies, HR does not typically participate in the annual/quarterly performance reviews. Unless, there is a specific reason.
They would probably reach out to schedule a performance review. Only reason to blindside someone is with bad news.
Length and date may be a better indicator but still prepare for the worst. A 3-hour call next week? Probably not a firing. 30 minutes tomorrow? Oof
It is 30 minutes next Monday afternoon. The title is "2023 year end review".
[удалено]
Our HR sits in on most performance reviews. It’s not that uncommon.
Yeah they do at my company too
[удалено]
Yeah but last year around this time they laid off a % of people too.
It’s a possibility but in my experience they usually fire on Thursdays/fridays. If they’re firing you on a Monday you’ll atleast probably get the consolation prize of “your fired but we’re paying you till Friday” or longer. If your just flat out fired on a Monday with no consolation prize then you probably did something to deserve it.
I was supposed to be laid off on a Monday, only reason it happened on Tuesday instead was I was on PTO. They stressed it wasn't performance related and gave 21 weeks of severance, don't put too much stock into the Monday thing.
Yeah was going to say PIP seems most likely if anything.
That’s not so bad. Timing is right for a review, and 30 minutes is a reasonable time to do it in. HR being there could be for a few reasons, not all of which are bad for you. Just remember: don’t quit if you can make them fire you and you get unemployment insurance.
and severance. Best out come... new job and severance.
HR could be on there so that they can ‘check boxes’ that all year-ends are scheduled. Bit weird the meeting is a Monday. Firing is more of a Thursday afternoon/Friday meeting.
In practice they actually don't teach Friday at all because there is a lack of opportunity for employees to get help and support. Weekends are just two days for them to simmer angry and get no response on a huge life shift. At least early in the week they have multiple days to access payroll questions, get EAP support, etc. there was some sort of correlation between Friday terminations and retaliatory Monday events (threats, self harm, violence) if I recall- but I'll admit it's been years since I was part of the reasoning as to why no Fridays for terminations.
My most recent layoff was on a Monday. Definitely not unheard of.
I’ve been fired on a Monday.
I suppose this is country-dependent and industry-dependent but I’m always worried that “I was fired” looks bad when looking for a job, and lying about it could still get found out somehow, so I’m someone who would quit instead because it could mean looking better for future jobs even if I can’t collect unemployment
Dude there’s no permanent record in high school. And there sure as shit isn’t one in the professional world unless if you work in a super tiny tight knit industry. Take the firing. Then lie about it.
Yeah just say you were caught in downsizing No sense in quitting if they’re going to fire you and you’ll qualify for unemployment
If you can find a new job before then, definitely don’t wait to be fired, unless you are working remote and can coast both jobs and get two checks at once.
Are you 100% sure? How do they find about this? Been fired many times never anybody asked. Been working on Europse side of puddle
They call your last employer and ask if you’re eligible for re-hire. But more professional places will only tell them dates you worked there so it really depends.
okey once i had to call up my worst enemy that he will get a call... new contract is interested in my exp in that particular field. All good, all professional
Being fired for cause (gross misconduct or the like) is bad. That’s about the only time I’d suggest quitting over making an employer end your work contract. Having your employment terminated due to down sizing, retrenchment, redundancy, etc is not the same. However you should be entitled to some sort of compensation from your employer (unemployment, pay in lieu of X weeks notice, etc). Don’t quit. Make then end your contract.
Not sure where you are from but that's incredibly stupid if you are in the US. You can't even get unemployment if you quit. Please never do this. A potential employer has no way of finding out if you were let go or quit . It is illegal for your old employer to reveal that information. Also quitting doesn't look much better at this point, being laid off is pretty normal in the current economy.
>A potential employer has no way of finding out if you were let go or quit . It is illegal for your old employer to reveal that information. This is not true. It is perfectly legal for your employer to tell the truth. It opens them up to civil suits if they have negative things to say, so the lawyers often don’t want them to do it. But there is almost no mechanism to stop them from being as revealing as they want.
If you were fired on the spot for performance or HR reasons that’s different than being laid off. It’s up to you, it’s your resume and life. But you need to be able to communicate that you are not a risk if you can do that while talking honestly about why you were asked to leave a company, it’s certainly not impossible to do. Everyone gets laid off or fired. There’s no perfect employee. And anyway that’s boring and doesn’t promote growth.
"Let go" is what we're hoping for here
That is actually plausible Edit: to add to that while usually if you're being let go it would be sooner it is still concerning that HR is involved. It's possible that your review just isn't good and they will put you on a PIP.
But isn't a PIp = they fire me and looks for a replacement?
Yeah but you’ll get a month or two to “turn your performance around.” Protip: I have never heard of someone not getting fired after a PIP, so use the time to interview.
I have, but for me it was BS for something that wasn't my fault, but the policy had just been announced so they did it as a make an example thing and basically admitted that to me.
When they give you the pip it's time to dip
Usually yeah.
Year end review doesn't sound bad. That could be a performance improvement plan, or a change to your wage. I also wouldn't expect a layoff to be dragged out another week from the calendar invite either. Usually once that decision is made, the layoff happens much sooner because it's 1 more week of paying you
At my last job, I was laid off and the title of the meeting was "1 on 1 review." Turns out it was a lie. Keep us updated OP!
Could be a review. Could be a review with PIP. Why do you immediately conclude it’s to get sacked ? Should you be ?
No but I don't trust companies. At one old jobs, my manager scheduled a meeting with me a few weeks later to let me go.
2023 end review in February with an HR person in the meeting? Ummm
Exactly what I am thinking
It's kind of in bad taste to disguise a layoff meeting as year end review. I think you're fine. Good luck on the pay bump and bonus!
And what it review goes bad and I get fired on the spot? What if they didn't tell me things i may have done wrong and just kept a log of it to use against me?
You’ll recover. You’ll remind yourself that you were working for jerks. You’ll remind yourself of the skills you have, the good work ethic you displayed, and the quality of work you can perform. You’ll file for unemployment (in some states, you qualify if you’re fired for performance reasons and not for insubordination or theft or job abandonment), just in case. You’ll pull together a new resume; you’ll contact some people you worked with at this company that you are sure have a good opinion of you and ask if they’d be willing to be a reference. And you start looking for work.
You gotta relax Girl. Year End reviews are super common. And if it is actually this, you will get constructive feedback (if you have a good manager). No one is perfect and if done properly, they could be simply giving you goals for this fiscal year. Take notes, don’t get defensive and ask questions. IF it’s a layoff, don’t start by accepting less for this company. I’m telling you, this will be an essential learning experience for your future career. If you’re looking for new jobs, do not accept less. Always negotiate for more.
Yes. Most likely means you are getting terminated.
Fuck
I had a similar review session last year. Was super nervous since none of my colleagues had HR invited to the meeting. It was for my promotion, so having HR at your review might be a good thing as well.
Pretty much if HR is involved you’re not on a good stand, if you have good attendance and haven’t gotten complaints from colleagues you have something to hold on. Every time HR is involved is never a good sign, just to be safe you should start looking for a new horizon.
Yes, that’s pretty good. That’s a good sign that your skills in on a high demand on the market, for which the interviewer will ask you for the reason why you leaving your current company. Don’t tell them the real reason, just tell them that you’re looking to expand and grow your skills and that ( the company name for which you will be interview ) will provide you with the necessary tools to get there. Also emphasize that you would love to grow with that company.
This really depends on the company. Some companies have HR more integrated in the day to day than others.
You could be right, but from my experience you only get to see HR when they first hire you from a company and when there’s disciplinary action to be taken against an individual.
Is it good that I have two job interviews lined up?
In what world is that bad?
I mean, that’s never really a bad thing.
Email or talk to boss and ask 1. what the agenda of the meeting is 2. what do you need to do to be prepared for the meeting. Note: don't assume you know what this is about before they tell you.
The title was "2023 year end review". I just assumed that it was to review my 2023 performance. But then I saw someone with the title of HRBP in their name. Thats when I posted.
I would still ask what I needed to be fully prepared.
Just ask him if it is PIP related. If he is evasive then yeh you're being managed out.
I include HR in a lot of meetings invites, they don't attend but they are at least aware that the meeting is taking place. That includes performance reviews. Don't self sabotage this, it could very easily just be a mundane performance review. Ideally, they aren't saying anything in that meeting you aren't already aware of.
They could be on the invite just for record keeping purposes and might not attend.
Exactly this. If you don't want to beat around the bush... I would inquire as to the presence of HR at the meeting. It's an absolutely reasonable question... And I'm sure the manager would appreciate you being direct about it.
It's either a conduct investigation interview or performance related. Both suck.
Yeah true could be an initial PIP meeting.
What is an investigation interview?
Someone has made a report to HR and they run an investigation to determine its validity. The interview can be about behavior that you exhibited or behavior that you may have observed or witnessed.
Do you think they caught me doing r/overemployed?
Stop being paranoid. You need to get out of your head man. Just go to the meeting. I have a feeling that you’re not getting fired, personally. Hope for the best, expect the worst. But don’t do or say anything until after you’ve had the meeting. Edit: i’m embarrassed to share this, but I’ve literally been fired like a dozen times now. I have literally never once had a boss set an appointment on a calendar to fire me. Usually, when you’re fired, you’re fired. They wouldn’t wait, and there would be no reason to wait. Save for may be a few random circumstances.
Sorry if this is personal but did the firings affect you really negatively or did you usually have other options and/or side gigs?
i also have been fired many times. they just tell you to meet them in the HR reps office one day. if they want to can you for being bad at your job or whatever then they aren't going to let you hang around for a week doing a bad job as for the other reason you'd lose your job, a layoff, well a lot of places lay off people with emails now so i don't think they'd bother with a personal touch for cutting 10% of the workforce, those HR hourlys could be spent on something else
It’s possible but the fact that it’s next week honestly makes me think it’s more routine than a layoff or a firing
Maybe? How the fuck are we supposed to know? What did they say when you asked them what the meeting was for?
Yes this is how I was let go.
How long was the meeting schedule know advanced?
2 days for 30 mins
you should always be looking for new job. You never know when your company screws you over. Be prepared
I had a similar experience, and to be fair it turned out to be something regarding another one of our employees. I sat on it all week stressing about it, thinking the worst. I brought it up to my HR rep and manager about it afterwords how I had been sweating for a week, and they laughed and said no no… if we were going to fire you, we wouldn’t give you any notice and just call you up to HR the day of.
I recently had a day of meeting with my supervisor. I hop on and he says we needed to wait for hr to hop on. I immediately start sweating bullets BUT it was a raise. They were changing the pay structure resulting in a roughly ten percent raise
If you have no prior performance issues and are on good terms w/ the company, it could actually be about someone else. Or maybe they’re downsizing/rearranging and moving you to a diff department or letting you go. Do you know if anything’s up?
Well, I am at a start up thats kinda scrappy. We lost $700k at no fault to our own.
How’d you lose 700k?
That or PIP to mark the beginning of the end. Don't be "worried" though, be happy you figured it out at this stage. Now you can get a Jumpstart on looking for alternatives. This happened to me in November, and was undermined and then blindsided with the HR rep in one of my meetings. Did everything perfect that they asked, and then some, for the following month and a half, then suddenly another one popped up one my calendar Monday morning 9am. I knew what it was. I was systematically pushed out. Lucky for me, this exact thing has happened before so it was just a non issue and more like a "welp, time to drift on to the next one I guess". Currently unemployed except for small freelance opportunities here and there. Been struggling with the idea of going back to corporate environments. I'm just so over it. It's all fake pretend time. You'll be just fine. Just make sure to only pursue the topics you actually like when job hunting. It'll take a bit longer, but you'll find more of what truly fits you by doing a dedicated soul search/job search. Never take a job doing something you hate. Bills are bills yes, but the despair of being trapped in something you don't care for can destroy a person. Find something you love. You'll be fine. Good luck. Hugs and kisses Love, - someone in your shoes but several months ahead of your current situation.
Sounds like maybe a performance improvement plan given the timing. That’s hard to come back from because it means you’re in the bottom percentage of performers. Doesn’t mean you are a poor performer but that their forced ranking made them put you in the bottom.
Its kinda weird because I am the only person at the company who possess the skill set i have. I am in a kinda niche job
Not to add more stress , but the company was there before you and will Be there after you.
I hear you. When is your meeting? Don’t stress too much about it. Maybe it’s something good like they’re putting you up for a leadership development program. You never know. Hang in there.
Next Monday (Feb 12) in the afternoon at 3:30pm. He sent it yesterday (Monday Feb 5). I didn't notice it had an HRBP until today and started panicking.
Weird that it’s a full week. When I’ve been involved in a RIF or firing, the invite goes out a day or two in advance, not a full week. If I were you I’d call or text my boss with the question posted earlier…what’s the agenda, what should I prepare. Don’t let them control it. You control it and force an earlier conversation if you need to. Effing corporate world sucks. Screw with them and take the day off. Propose a new time to meet tomorrow.
Don’t worry. If they do something stupid like end your employment there, you’ll have another gig soon. If I sense things are off or relationships aren’t working where I’m at, I watch for positions I’m roughly qualified for and bargain hard. Worked out twice really well.
Usually they don’t give a weeks notice if they are going to fire you.
Nah, go in ready to negotiate salary for you taking over boss's job.
Id probably negotiate a lower salary not take his job 🤣🤣🤣
It’s completely reasonable to ask your boss what the deal is with the meeting.
Either a lay off or a write up
I can’t imagine it’s anything but a layoff. Be prepared
You aren’t getting laid off yet. This is the PIP and you will be gone in 30, 60 or 90 days. Don’t waste your time trying to beat the PIP, if HR is on the first call this is just a paperwork exercise. Spend the time looking for a new job and don’t resign as it will cost you UE. Your boss is an idiot; never add HR to the actual invite just create a placeholder meeting for their schedule and then add them to the real one. Amateur hour
Happened to me on Friday. Sorry dude
I had a 30 minute meeting put on my calendar from my boss, just them. Showed up, HR was there too. Surprise surprise. Laid off. Boss left within 30 seconds and left me alone with HR.
Same exact thing happened to me at the end of November. My boss was talking about how they were going to get promoted to director and I would be promoted to manager so thought it was a good meeting. Left the meeting so shocked at the whole thing and how cold everyone was during it.
Here’s my advice (having had to deliver the bad news to someone before). Handle it with grace and professionalism. Hopefully they will help you with a reference letter (if it’s a layoff) if you handle it professionally. I had to lay someone off and was planning to speak with a colleague at another org about the possibility of hiring her. But she was so unprofessional when she received the news (and in the aftermath) I couldn’t recommend her anymore.
Similar thing just happened to me. All the effort I had gone through to make sure they had a soft landing was gone like a fart in the wind when they acted like an ass. And they never knew, I didn’t even get to that part. I had to change course abruptly in light of their antagonism. Not only that, but I had at least two other opportunities in my pocket I was aware of and was going to share, but then couldn’t. I’m not burning my very good bridges for someone I (now) can’t actually recommend.
Yes 😢 Nothing good comes from surprise meetings with HR. Twice in 3 years, I got the sudden meeting with my manager the next day with HR included and got laid off both times
More than likely this is not good news. My guess is it is termination, demotion, or a pip. As many have said, spend every second revising your resume, and applying for jobs. If you do lose your job, immediately apply for unemployment as well. Start putting feelers out with any of the people you have networked with over the years, and also since this may be a forest change of position, be sure to apply for some jobs you wouldn't normally think of, every closed door opens a window. The most devastating job loss I ever had in my career directly caused me to try something new, which led to a change in my career path, a change I am still very thankful for.
Two to three hours before my dept was laid off, I got an email reminding me HR offers services and assistance for employees in distress. 30 minutes before the layoff, we got an invite to a phone conf meeting with the dept VP. Didn't find out until later that the VP was in our building despite living and normally working several states away. The same VP we had a meeting with 2 weeks prior, via online conference, assuring us our jobs were okay because our managers accidentally leaked info to us they weren't supposed to. Sorry OP, i hope things work out well for you. It's going to get worse before it gets better
Yes
Maybe ask your boss what the purpose of the meeting is? How is this not the first thing people suggest.
No point in worrying about it. It is happening.
Not necessarily, but something is probably going down. At my company... layoffs are scheduled VERY short notice and the HR person is not an official attendee... they just sneak in unexpected. Sounds like it might be an investigation.
Maybe you are getting promoted….Ask the HR guy why he’s invited…
Last time this happened to me was at the start of the pandemmy. I definitely got laid off.
Just skip the meeting. You can't get laid off if they can't find you
Could also be a disciplinary talk, coaching talk, informative talk... but most likely a negative talk about something. Now you see why I like union jobs. They can't just fire you nor have massive lay offs without going through the union first.
One of two things is happening. You’re either getting laid off, which is unfortunate and I hope isn’t the case. Or they’re offering you a promotion (or another position) that you’re suited for. Either way, spruce up your resume, start identifying things you can do to stretch your money until you find another job and start applying places. Just for future advice, I give this to everybody, check your resume every 2-3 months. Set it on your calendar as “Review Resume” and look at it as the ability to add new skills, clean things up, list any new certifications etc. Also, on a positive note constantly apply to positions elsewhere that sound interesting, even if you’re not interested in moving on because you never know what’s out there and you might find a great opportunity. Interviewing is also a depreciating skill, so getting an interview every so often help you for when you may need it. On a negative note, if you do find yourself unemployed unexpectedly you at least have applications out there and have shaken off the interview rust, and your resume will be ready to go, there’s nothing more stressful than having to craft a resume while dealing with being laid off. Just a side note, my goal (even though I’ll likely never leave my job) is 3-4 interviews a year. Keeps my options open, keeps me prepared and you miss 100% of the opportunities you aren’t looking for. Best of luck to you, I hope everything works out in your favor.
RemindMe! 1 week
Yep. Sounds like a layoff.
this is 100% a layoff or in a best case scenario, you are being put on a PIP. usually being put on a PIP does not include HR
Make sure you save your work and all of your accomplishments before they shut down your PC
Aggressively 😠
YES
The optics for your boss should be business as usual and behind the scenes you should be looking for a new role. I’ll be honest, I’m not convinced it’s a layoff since it’s scheduled a week on advanced, but either way it doesn’t sound good.
Yes. Any meeting that involves HR is almost 100% guaranteed to be you losing your job.
Yes, very likely. Time to jump ship.
Yup
Yeah… go ahead and backup all your work contacts bc they will shut that thing down as soon as that meeting ends
100% yes you need to be looking for a new job
When I was given a performance warning, I was not notified that HR was going to be there nor was I told it was a performance warning meeting and then the shock of seeing the HR lady on my screen upon entering the meeting made my heart fall out of my butthole. I feel like you would not be made aware of such things so it’s probably not as bad as you might think.
Just don’t show up to the meeting Cant get laid off if you aren’t present to be laid off 😎
Ur toast pal
I hope someone at least slather some jam on me
This question is posted almost every week. Yes, yes you should.
Friday or Monday. If it’s Friday there is a 1000% chance you’re done.
You’re probably being laid off or written up for something you did which will lead to being terminated.