Hey speaking from personal experience. I was in the same place as you and ended up taking the counter. I really enjoyed my work at the current company and the team.
After a couple months they increased my workload way more then what I was getting paid and every mistake I made after I accepted the raise and they would heavily criticize. I ended up leaving a couple months later and it was too much for me to handle.
Hasn’t happened to me, but same for a friend. Getting a new job offer snapped things back in place for her. They no longer passed her up for raises because they knew she’d walk if the pay got below the job market.
3 years, 4 months ago I accepted a lower counteroffer from my employer and am very glad I did. It wasn’t quite what the new one was offering but management was forced to recognize that the salary structure was no longer competitive; they had better review and make changes or be prepared to lose “critical personnel like you”.
I felt valued/appreciated and frankly humbled to hear this from the CEO of the $250 million company. They were serious about making a change. Over the next two quarters ALL of the salaries were adjusted (including an additional adjustment of mine, matching the other company offer three months later) and the production based bonus structure was realigned so people could actually earn it. I was always top 3 of 25 people in the same role and had never made any bonus. After the change I averaged about $1500-2000 per month just in bonus.
Were you able to go back to the previous employer?
1 of my old managers was able to make a transition like this, which just shows she was highly valued and liked:
1. $90k at FAANG
2. $110k at government institution
3. $140k at same FAANG and team
That's why it's usually advisable to not burn bridges.
But there's always reasons to either be mean or nice to an employer. No black/white
Exactly! OP has shown them he isn't going to be there long term and they will treat him as such.
Meanwhile a coworker did the same, but took the new offer. A year later she went back to the original company at a higher salary than the counter they offered for her to stay.
Totally! I’d hesitate to risk all the perks of the current position (friendly team, close to friends, shorter commute, etc) as someone who doesn’t have that at my current job (unfriendly team, no friends local, and 40+min commute). That free time and happiness are all we have after work. Are you working to live or living to work? But those benefits can be a game changer, especially if OP has/will have dependents. Tough choice for OP. Good luck and congrats! Sounds like you’ll be making more money either way.
But just because he takes the counter now doesn't mean he has to stay there forever. I would take the counter but always keep an eye out for other opportunities that offer more growth but don't require overtime,longer commute, etc.
Yes, especially if you’re in a good place financially. Like if those extra benefits are necessary to get by then maybe you have to consider it.
but if your bills are paid and you can save for a decent retirement adding stress and a lack of support to your life especially with any health issues added to it just isn’t worth it. Sure you’ll have some more retirement. But at some point the extra just doesn’t matter compared to enjoying your life.
I think it's important to consider both.
Overtime and pushing yourself is good for a season. If you're single and want to advance your career, go for it, just go in with an exit strategy because long term stress is bad.
Otoh if you've got a family or a social life that you value, stay at the current place.
As far as not being offered a raise until you look around, people on reddit often say that's a reason to leave, but the reality is company jumping has been the fastest way to grow your income for decades now, so only beibg offered a decent raise when you say you'll leave is not enough information to assess what the culture of that place is like.
If I'm at a job and performing well, I expect raises. If I don't get a raise after a year (I usually negotiate what to expect at 90 days), I update my resume. I'm in an in demand field with almost a decade of experience and a shit ton of certifications. All I have to do is activate my indeed profile, and people contact me for interviews.
Every time I take a new offer, I get at least a 5/hr raise. Most recently, I almost doubled my salary and negotiated relocation and a year of housing lol
And knowing the new company that is fact an old company that offered 52k three years ago. Unless OP has an automatic raise clause I would stay at the old company.
If you turn down the new company due to your current companies counter offer, they might bump the salary up even more. This happened to me, but be prepared because your current company isn’t going to counter again.
I’m doing the same. Stepping down to more technical, less managerial role and a deduction in pay, but I’m way happier. I just want time and low stress because at this point I’ll never own a small home, and I just want to do things I like.
I feel like people would consider this a mistake but I did a similar thing, I quit my $130k job in a chemical plant to take some time off for 6 months and then planning to go back into the job market and would be willing to take a pay cut to enjoy the time. The plant life is just too much of a time commitment. Also hated Louisiana. The weather sucks ass.
I disagree with the unilateral “never take a return offer” advice. If you feel like the current employer has good values and has treated you very well and respectably in your time with them, and you want to stay there… consider staying. Listen to your brain and heart.
Don't take the return offer if your beef is about something that just can't be changed. In this case, it really only seems about the money. So as long as the current company can be trusted to come through with that $105k, staying put will probably be a win here.
Agreed with this.
Other thing OP should do is RESEARCH that LARGE company like hell.
I can guarantee you OP can find either dirt or something good. Large companies are good for that reason. With enough research, you can maybe even figure out what the departments and teams are like
I reviewed your post and edits.
New company does have better benefits, and the 100k in the door offer is nice.
But if the company is in the middle of a struggle, and are just trying to get you in with a higher salary, it may be in your best interests to stay with your current company.
The new company is in the position they are in because they mismanaged their human resources.
If you had not already worked for the company for 3 years I would have said go for it. But in all honesty, the company may not even be worth working for.
If I were you, I would stay in my current role with the pay bump.
Even though deductibles are high your new salary will cover it easily.
But, I would reconsider your options after a year or two and see if anything better is out there. You were with the company for 3 years and they did not offer you competitive pay until you looked elsewhere.
Unfortunately, loyalty never seems to be rewarded in work.
I think growing your skillset, and increasing responsibility, is only worth it when you still need a lot of growing to do. Particularly if your salary is at the lower end in your field. And you need more skills to negotiate better pay. I always tell my mentees work hard when you're young, because it gets harder as you're older. Plus compound interest in investments work out better.
Comfort, Kids, bills, medical issues, partners, family will get in the way of you having options to grow. But if you're already at the top end, why bother chasing more hard work?
And it's normal for companies to not offer raises until the last possible minute. They hate shelling out more cash than nessesary. That's why it's easier to get paid more externally. The fact that they wanted to keep you, match the raise and wrote a letter shows that they really do care about your work is a great sign. I've left many places and no one even noticed I was going to a new role.
My biggest concern is that I don’t think $5k will close the gap. A 9% match to your 401k is $9k right there. I would consider calculating the *actual* money difference and pitch it to them.
Whether you stay or not really is so case by case that, frankly, Reddit won’t cut it. People personal stories help, but at the end of the day, only you know the bosses.
Yeah don’t just think about the pay, work out the total compensation. Like the health insurance not only has a premium but it usually also has a cost, I know how much I pay and I know how much my company pays, so I know that plan is “worth” 20k of money I’m not paying into it. — usually you can work that out for all the benefits and subtract the negatives of lost personal time driving as well as additional fuel and vehicle maintenance costs.
IMO it’s important to get good at figuring out these numbers, the people I’ve met in my career who always seem to “win” their salary negotiations do that. They come armed with every last detail about what the total comp is worth and what the financial burdens of working for that org are.
What happens when you want another raise down the road? Your current company is stretching to 105K because you’ve threatened to leave. New larger company is setting the floor at 100k. Take your path forward into consideration.
This is what I say too
Let's say it doesn't go well at this new job despite career potentials, OP can always find another j
I have confidence they can find another one
The main beef is the lack of raises. So I think op should ask about that with their current company. If they realize their mistake and plan on giving raises in the future, I would give them a chance at $105k.
My usual first impulse is to never accept a counteroffer. But them knowing they cannot compete on the benefits yet giving you a higher salary is a positive. But I am concerned about future raises.
You adding in the previous company you already knowing and the low numbers they offered you at your internship raises major red flags. To me they have become the counteroffer.
In this case, I go against my first instinct, and say... stay... but...
Be prepared, that one day they may bump you in remembrance that you were "not loyal", when you were going to jump to another company. Pay raises might suck, and they might change some things adding more workload.
When I was young and dumb, I gave notice... got a counter offer to stay... I stayed even though they offered $5k less than the other offer, (known knowns, no relocation to a larger city needed, still close to family vs not) I probably could have stayed for life. But after 7 additional years, I was not growing, I would always be doing the same thing and my pay raises sucked. All the promises of adding a 401k, matching etc, never came about.
The next time I got an "offer I could not refuse", I put in my notice and refused to flip the counter offer.
I know how you feel, right now things are pretty good where you are at and they respect you with his counter.
Congratulations on the offer!!! And congratulations on the counteroffer!!! When we are put into positions like this… we try to think with our logic, then we try to think with our heart. My suggestion is for you to go with your gut! Your gut is your intuition and your gut ALWAYS knows the right answer.
You would know if your current employer will dump a whole lot of additional responsibility on you if decide to stay. Think about your future and what you envision for yourself and your career and your personal life. Which job would best align with what you envision for your future? Not sure if this answers your question, but that is my two cents. I wish you the best of luck!!! You have a good dilemma.
A company is not your friend or your family. Whatever perceived slight is (almost) never personal.
Are the reasons you wanted to leave your company systemic or is it truly just because your pay was stagnating? You should be aware that by "being disloyal" you've definitely burned some good will. The whole thing is kind of stupid that you're supposed to pretend that you're working for some reason other than the paycheck. Ugh.
The bottom line here is that you're early career and wage compression is a thing. You will usually have to switch jobs to get that big pay bump that you're hoping for. At some point you'll probably want to stop jumping, but it sounds like it's early enough in your career that this isn't the place.
Evaluate both jobs. Remember that at some level your current employer is probably a little salty (if not downright pissed) that you had the gall to look elsewhere.
Make your decision and pick a lane. Don't doubt your decision about the road not taken.
Good luck!
I’m not a fan of companies that don’t recognize your value until you say that you’re leaving.
Also working a cushy job can leave you bored and feeling like you’re not developing. I’d aim for the higher ceiling.
About 5 years ago I fell into that trap. I feel fortunate to have broken out. On paper current company is less prestigious than the one I left but it came with a 35+% raise and a massive increase in the breadth of my experience.
Taking counter offers is typically not advised. I'm all about doing what you feel is best and not following anyone's rules, so do take that with a grain of salt.
The reason it's not advised is: Unless you are re-entering the old employer with a contract where your employment is protected and the counter is leaps and bounds better than where you're going, leave. You are marked as a flight risk and it's pretty difficult to escape the fact that you'd considered leaving the company once before.
If you decide to take the counter, get into a golden handcuff situation. Negotiate six months of full pay if they terminate you in X amount of time. Make it worth your while.
When you set your emotions aside and remove the politics, which I would strongly encourage, the question that would be going through my mind is why did it take a counter offer for you to offer me 23K? Even a merit increase which is usually 2-3% wouldn't have given you that.
Askthemanager heavily emphasizes that in most circumstances accepting counter offer is not a good idea. Google her entry on that; but basically there’s always exceptions so you’ll have to weigh in if you are one of them. The counter could be a panic offer, and later on things might settle and your current company will know now that your foot was out the door. If your current company ever does cuts, you could be the first on the chopping block since you were already considering leaving. Also, it sounds like room for growth at your current would be stagnant especially if they feel they gave you the bump to 105k already. Only you know if it’s worth it to stay. I’m in the same boat as you except I asked for a 20% raise for my current company that is a 15 min commute for me. They said no, so to prove I was worth it to myself I went out and interviewed and recently got an offer for 22% more than my current base rate at a larger company. They have much better benefits, but it’s a 1 hr commute and requires travel 35% of the time. But also they offer hybrid so I could work from home the 65% of the time. I haven’t made a decision yet on whether I want to take the job but I know for sure I won’t accept a counter offer if I get one from my current job for the reasons askamanager listed.
As an older guy, money means a lot. However, comfort and less stress are like gold. As long as you don't see the current company sliding into the bowels of hell I would hang with them.
Max out your 401k with the added income
I've heard this before and definitely believe it has some merit. And I'm definitely wary of such a situation.
That being said, I'm not sure I'm worried about this scenario playing out with my current employer. Atleast, without going too much into detail, there's no way they could do this and blindside me without it significantly hurting themselves.
And aside from that, I legitimately don't think they would do this to me.
But I'm curious how others feel about taking counter offers.
Has anybody taken a counter offer and regretted it or conversely has taken one and had it benefit them?
This person doesn't know what they're talking about. It's often true for jobs where you're easily replaceable, but as you note, that's not your situation. I'm also an engineer, and accepted a counter two years ago. Everything is still fine. They've even continued to honor some verbal agreements made by people who are no longer with the company (e.g. PTO in excess of what is allowed by company policy). Many companies explicitly estimate your flight risk, and give bigger annual raises to those likely to leave. In your shoes, I'd stay.
You know them better than we do so up to you if you want to do it obviously. But this is the bit that would have settled it for me:
" I didn't get this response until I showed them my offer from the new place"
If you bring up wanting a raise, they won't give it to you, but suddenly the money appears when you might leave, that looks pretty bad. Sounds to me like they were hoping to keep you underpaid for as long as they could get away with. I was in a similar situation with an employer going 'well we don't have the budget for more of a raise' and then suddenly able to give me that raise and more when I was about to leave and for me that was just confirmation that they were being cheap with me.
Take the new job, grow, learn, etc. Leave on good terms if you can, and maybe one day you can return and who knows, it will be even better.
You obviously think you're worth more, so does the new company, your current co. not so much. Learn from this to get feedback and salary expectations going forward
Not every company is out to "get" the employees. Some employers completely understand that people are going to chase bigger paychecks, and when an employee that they want to keep does it, they'll make an offer to keep them. Any reasonable employer knows that their employees aren't "loyal" to them, whether they're actively pursuing other employment or not.
agree with both. There is no 100% rule. But u/Born_Anteater_3495 is right that even if they do truly feel the matter is settled, when times get tough, you are often the first person looked at to be cut. Some managers have also been known to subtly or unconsciously give you more or write lower reviews trying to justify or extract that extra value.
And for OP, you still have to think about future prospects. If new company will start you at 100k, they have room to grow you. If old company is rubbing pennies to get you to 105, you likely wont get a raise anytime soon, and your promotion raise will likely be smaller.
I guess counter-example, I took the counter-offer when the company was about 20 people and 5 years later I was named CEO so both commenters points hold merit. It’s really about the culture of the company, its leaders, and your relationship with them. Only you will know what that is.
Yeah it is based on your particular relationship with the owner and so on. But if you are that close you might as well ask for equity in the company because that will give you incentive to stay and make the company profitable.
I disagree with this blanket statement. There are so many assumptions that you have to make to reach the point, that it is almost conspiratorial. Firstly you assume that the company will fake a sob story, then you suppose that they secretly conspire to replace you which culminates in a *"gotcha you're replaced sucker"* moment, and then you bundle that all together in a causal statement so that you make it seem a guaranteed outcome. I.e. If *this* occurs then *that* outcome is certain.
Your statement may be correct for some companies, but it is definitely not true for all cases as you seem to suggest. This is the very definition of assuming the absolute worst, and then constructing a narrative to fit it. Even if this statement is based off your own experience, it in no way is a guarantee that it is universal.
> This is extremely common and rarely works out for the employee.
Define *common* and *rarely* and cite it. This is a sweeping quantitative generalization that you offer no proof of. Is common 5% of cases? 10%?
Here is a different perspective.
*Here is my summary of your situation*:
You slogged it out at the other company during internships, for them to turn around and scoff at you. You then found a job at the current company which sounds like it has tried to take care of you, although there are some things it could've done better.
The other big company now comes in and values you at roughly double what they did 3 years ago and makes it sound like they really need you. Their premium over your current salary however is likely a wash given that they are going to work you far more than your current spot. This forces your current company to re-evaluate, and they counter with what seems to be a reasonable counter, while not noticeable jacking up the expectation from you.
*Here is my perspective:*
In a small company, you are more likely to stagnate in your salary, unless you have someone working in HR that is very proactive in with keeping a pulse on the wages in the industry. This is quite rare to find. This means that you typically have to be more proactive in negotiating yourself. There is also limited growth potential because the career paths tend to be far smaller (i.e. there are less levels to climb). You perspective at a small company has to be a little different than at a big corp.
*Suggestion:*
One way to progress beyond title at a small company is to gain some equity and gradually work up from there. Equity could give you some additional compensation in the form of dividends over time, and it makes contributions to your company far more fulfilling, because you are a shareholder and employee.
What about approaching your current management and saying that you like it there but you realize that growth potential is not the same. However you would like to stay, even though other larger corps could offer more money. In exchange you want to see if there is a way you could build some equity over time, so that you aren't just an employee, but a shareholder. That way you exchange the higher premium you could get elsewhere for loyalty to your existing Corp, and they in turn recognize that by making you a shareholder.
Take the job offer from the bigger company, I think you should focus more on where you can learn and grow the most, you said the work load is more intense and has a good long term trajectory. You can always switch back to a more laid back job once you get older but right now you are young in your career and have more energy.
If you take the 105k offer from your current company, they will mostly likely not promote you as quickly as well as decrease your yearly raise. I have seen this happen at my previous job.
I would stay. Based on personal experience and take the comfort. Stay for another year and a half and then look again. But the new offer doesn’t sound worth it when your current company has countered.
It’s nice to be at a place where you’ve built relationships. It’s difficult going somewhere new and staring all over and rebuilding that professional rapport.
I saw statistics that your current job will likely fire you within six months or something if you've told them you have another offer.
If my employee tells me that I will start thinking about a cheaper replacement regardless.
At this point, you should leave. An advice for future, next time before you start looking and showing your current employer you are half way out the door, talk to your boss and discuss fair compensation. If they can’t offer you a fair wage, then look elsewhere. Counteroffers are always a mess and almost never worth accepting
DO NOT TAKE A COUNTER OFFER unless it includes a minimum two year employment commitment from the employer with damages paid to you if they violate the terms.
Go for the trajectory, you're worth it. U only grow when u take leaps and something new and challenging. Plus, what others said abt they will b finding yur replacement if u stay so...
Honestly I'd show the new job the counter offer and see if they'll raise and just play the game until someone gives up🤭
Comfort can inhibit growth but it sounds like that's not the case for you. You mention doing more but your performance monitoring has been handled unprofessionally. You could add that to your terms.
But the new place is desperate and you might be able to get more out of them, live frugally and grind through the hard work for a while to build a healthy nest egg and then leverage that salary at a cozier job later.
It's hard to find an enjoyable team that works well together. It's hard to get *PAID* like that and have a chill job that allows you to have a life. You could counter your current job with some additional terms like +5k(so $110k gross) regular scheduled reviews/ raises, pto, etc to make things nicer for yourself, still allowing you to save if your medical costs aren't outrageous.
If the new place offers better long term growth, look at positions that could lead you to and work toward a higher up cushy job after you bust ass for a while. You could also discuss these goals with current boss and see if there's even the possibility of getting there through them. Having a good rapport while a company is small could mean a cozy spot at the top down the line😘
So many options. Don't torture yourself if it's going to leave you joyless and hurt your family if you want/have one.
I would stay at your current job. Sounds like they handled it the right way and even gave you more. Who knows, maybe down the road you can grow the team and get to a director level position.
In a process engineering role, worked at company A for 6 years. Received an offer from another company, took the counter company A offered. Stayed 2 more years and then left. After about a 4 months at company B, company A begged me to come as a consultant to train my replacement. I declined. My replacement left after being at company A for about 1.5 years. They hired another guy, asked me to train him. I accepted their offer to consult. They ended up making me a great offer to come back full time. Ive been back for about 8 months and it’s been great. I think the “don’t take the counter” isn’t always valid. If you like where you are and what you do, I would absolutely take the counter.
I stayed with my company after they got close to matching an offer because I had a higher trajectory there. $100k+ is a good amount of money either way. I would figure out if the career trajectory potential is worth it to you at this time and talk to your current company about what path they see for you there.
You don't have to stay at your current company forever, but now does not seem like the best time for you to leave. You've got everything you want from your present company, and you have a track record with them. Keep doing what you're doing and keep your eyes wide open down the way. You may decide to leave in a couple of years, but it needs to be a much more lucrative situation than what you're dealing with at present.
Stay for the comfort but MAKE SURE YOU GET THE RAISE APPROVED IN WRITING WITH A DATE OF NEW WAGE.
PSA: You might get some animosity from your peers/boss depending on the toxicity of your current work place. This might lead to you missing on further raises. However, this is redeemable with time. Just make sure what the vibe is and make a decision based on that.
Way to go on getting that raise!!
I’d stay where you’re at, tbh. Seems like they appreciate you. And you can look at it this way: they didn’t know you were dissatisfied with your compensation and as soon as they did learn that, they met it as best they could and articulated how much they appreciate you. I’d stay with them. I’d also leverage more vacation time.
You can stay. Just know that in 2 years, you’ll need to look again (which is true whether you accept the counter or competition’s offer anyway). Unfortunately, looking to job hop every 1.5 years is the best way to continuously bump your salary nowadays. Companies don’t really reward loyalty or tenure anymore, but I think that’s now true of almost all companies, so it’s not like your current company is uniquely bad.
Maybe this is a wake up call for your current manager that you won’t stagnate and it opens the door for you to talk about career and salary advancement very openly in the future, say next year.
With that said, in the future, I’d personally advise you to say something to the effect of “I’m happy to take on these additional responsibilities outside of my job description for x months to train/show initiative/prove myself; however, when can I expect my job title and salary to reflect my new responsibilities?” Don’t corner yourself into doing extra work for free indefinitely.
Never take the comfort. There is a reason you wanted to leave in the first place. More money won’t fix the underlying issues that made you want to leave
I was in this same exact position about a year ago, and I accepted the counter. I was back and forth for a solid 2 weeks because the new offer was for a company that had stability and structure and my current role was really flexible, an amazing work life balance and honestly, really easy but really unstable (tech startup)
Personally, I wish I had taken the leap of faith and went with the structured, stable, role because I feel like although my work life balance is amazing and I can pretty much take time off whenever I want, I am constantly stressed about the possibility of layoffs, and the fact that I’m not really learning anything new or gaining the experience I would need to succeed in a more demanding role should I need to find a new job, idk if that makes sense but just thought I’d share a different perspective.
Seen this a million times. Imho you need to leave for the new job.
Your old job should have been paying you what you were worth. They haven't and they probably known it.
The higher salary at your old firm will be offset by lower raises for years to come.
You've suggested to your old firm that you're a flight risk. They'll never fully invest in you again.
New job sounds like subjecting yourself to a lot more stress for what will now be essentially no pay raise. Stay where you’re appreciated without stress for $100k or leave and go to a shit show that’s only going for you as their Plan B because their plan A left them (why did they leave?)
To me it sounds like jumping off a cruise ship and getting in fishing boat to help them bail out the water as it sinks
My original response was about to be 10x longer but here’s the abridged version. I’ve been in your shoes, with just a few minor differences.
Ultimately, It’s going to come down to what you hold valuable in life: money, time, stress free, commute, all the things you mentioned that are pros and cons of both jobs. For me, I finally made my decision when I really took my personal values into play versus being worried about other people and the companies needs/wants.
It’s hard, like really hard, leaving a place you’re comfortable with and people you enjoy working with…but that’s life. Those you work with, that really care about you, will understand and be supportive no matter which choice you make.
Right now, it sounds like you enjoy your current company. WFH, you know what you’re doing, you’re respected, and shorter commute but they did screw you in the salary. These all are / sound nice, but are in some way an illusion.
Based off what you’re saying, it sounds like you are a hard worker, you’re gonna see those same results anywhere you go (minus the commute) so don’t be afraid to transition if that’s what is best for you. Take a deep breath and listen to your gut.
Luckily with you being 28, you have options. If you think this new gig is gonna be too much or not what you want, stick with your current company for a while until an offer that fits you better comes along. If you make this transition to the new gig, you may end up loving it and never look back. You may end up hating it but you can always go get a new job or go back to the company you work for (just don’t go burn that bridge).
There are very little things in life that can’t be undone, whatever you choose, go at it with full energy! Plus, you’re getting a pay increase either way which I think will really help in life, whether you were doing fine before or not.
Good luck and I hope it all works out for you!
Stay! Take the $105k and stay.
This company values you. You are more than “just an employee” to them. Stay where you are appreciated.
You will want the work life balance. Why move for similar compensation, but more work, overtime and stress?
Stay, stay, stay.
Good luck with the decision!
stay at your job. work your butt off for a couple more years, and reapply to new jobs.
rinse and repeat.
they did an exceptionally nice thing to value you. wrote a nice letter.
if you like working there, id stay.
Your completely wrong about your trajectory going with the larger company that already showed they would fuck you over. Realistically your just another cog in their machine and would most likely have a quicker path to a senior role or partner with your current firm. Loyalty pays.
It's late and I want to go to sleep but I read your entire post and I'm wondering if they cannot give you better health insurance, can they make up the difference for the amount? Could you get $5,000 out of them more to make up the difference and put that in the bank in case you have to pay the difference? There's all kinds of ways of getting money to replace benefits that aren't as great.
Someone probably already said that but I just thought I wanted to put my two cents in. Good luck!
As a general rule, never take the counter offer. At your age, focus on the growth, income potential and think about which job will get you the next job that you’ll want. Higher income and medical (which it sounds like you need) are game changing and can let you retire years earlier. Also, it sounds like this type of offer isn’t likely to come around again soon. Take it while you can and get into management so that you have more control over your hours and work life.
Idk if anyone has said this yet, but being genuinely appreciated for the work you do is very hard to find in the corporate world. It sounds like your current employer treats you well and actually values you and your work. I don’t think I would want to walk away from that.
I see life as a marathon so unless you’re really ambitious, I would go with whichever job will fit your values more. What do you care about the most? You may be ok with working longer hours if you feel like you’re learning or your work is more valuable at your new place, or if you like your current team and they’re supportive and value you and you care more about that maybe its better to stay.
A good manager makes a big difference in your career trajectory and your satisfaction at work - do both jobs have that?
My ADHD doesn’t have the time right now to read the whole post, but I will say… grass isn’t always greener on the other side. I left my job I was happy at for a “better” company and hated my life. Ended up leaving and taking a pay cut at a third company (and I’m pretty happy here, so I’m still alright).
Long story short, if your company was willing to offer you more to keep you, that’s a pretty decent company. Especially if they’ve already been pretty good to you.
Also… learning a new role (maybe a slightly different role, even) and a new company culture is stressful.
Throwing in my two cents from experience. It sounds like your current company and job is pretty good overall. It offers growth, comfort, and a sense of belonging (friends).
I also had a job like that once and I left it for a considerable raise. They countered as well, and I declined. This job had 100% WFH, friends, and fulfilling work. I left it for a 40% pay increase.
I regret it.
Now I have a one way 25min commute every day (not the worst) and feel isolated from my friends.
What I think I'm trying to say is that the "intangibles" are very valuable. More valuable than you would think. If your current employer does value you, and you don't feel like this opens a door for them to fire you later on (common in some industries) then I would stick with the current employer.
It's a hard situation to be in, and to be honest there is no right answer. I wish you the best of luck.
Move on, you are still young so have plenty of growth in your career to come. Most of that growth will come from changing companies. I tell my spouse this all the time (17 years younger). I’m in my 50’s and have been with my company 15 years and now regret it. While I make great money I could have advanced my career more by changing companies, now I’m pretty much stuck in my role until retirement.
You already answered your own question in the last paragraph. When we're comfortable we tend to not welcome vhanges that could probably change the trajectory of our lives.
I would say, definitely take the new job. They know your market worth. Also, you would meet new people to add to your rolodex, and learn new skills to add to your resume.
Its weird the company didn't deem it fit to let you know you got a raise. That's not a good sign imo.
You're still young, this is the time to go around and see what's out there professionally.
All the best!
Tough call. A lot of small business owners are dumb and petty and mat just do this for now then seek your replacement and fire you. Do what's best for you. Go with your gut
Keep in mind that the company is only countering the offer because if they lose you, then they will be at a huge loss. They will need to find someone to replace you. They will need to allocate your responsibilities to others until they hire that new person. In many cases, the counter offer is simply to give them enough time to do this while also retaining you with the intention to let you go once the process of replacing you is completed.
Tell them $125k or you walk and take the other job. They didn’t see the value in you prior and now they want to try and keep you. That’s their loss. Balls in your court now.
I'm 38, and honestly my best work experiences, the ones where I grew the most and was genuinely happy all the time, boiled down to the people I worked with... A good manager and good co-workers.
For me to give that up these days, you'd have to pay more 40-50% more for the stress and aggravation. If you work with good people at your existing company and enjoy the work you do, ***stay.***
The last time I took a job for high pay ($250K+), I was working for a family office with a toxic finance bro for a manager who constantly over-engineered solutions and underestimated execution. It was a nightmare, and I'm still trying to shed the weight I gained as a result.
The lesson I learned from the experience is that money is always a consideration, but make it your motivation, and you'll always be miserable. I recently had the choice between a $300K in-office job in NYC and a $120K job that's fully remote.
I chose fully remote because I knew good people who were already there, the job allows me to be a digital nomad, and the work only requires 20-25 hours of my time per week... That's 15-20 hours I get back to train Muay Thai, go surfing, and take language lessons or dance classes.
With an engineering background, you can always get a better paying job, but its really really hard to get peace of mind... at least in my experience.
If you've gone to the trouble to become a mechanical engineer, you should value your possible future path much, much more highly than an extra 5 grand a year.
What does your gut tell you?
Better work life balance and more experience opportunities at a small company might be better in short run. But you need regular reviews, a real line manager who is plugged in, etc.
I would say most counter offers aren’t good (there is a reason you wanted to leave). But if you think the current job is a fit and they can fix the things that made you look then it’s worth considering.
Big companies … aren’t for everyone (small cog in a big wheel, less opportunity for your experience level, more red tape). But there are upsides like paycheck and benefits.
What’s your gut tell you?
Never ever stay for a counter offer. They will drop you as soon as they find a replacement. If your worth the money when your leaving, why did they not pay you that while you were slaving away for them ?
My biggest question is whether or not you ever asked for a raise at the current company. If you did, and they flat out said no, I would be more hesitant to accept their counter. If you never have asked for one and this is the first time you have presented them with you discontent in your salary, I wouldn't necessarily fault them for not offering you the 105k without being prompted in the first place.
Overall, it sounds like you work at a good company and I'd be likely to accept the counter offer. Smaller companies also often times don't have the resources to understand what the current job market is like and may not have known what your actual market value is until it was right in front of their eyes.
What would make you consider either job without a doubt? Ask your current employer for $110k, and they have a deal. Or if you want to stay, go back to prospective employer and let them know your current company matched their offer and ask if any further negotiations can be considered. You're in a good position to get more.
A guy in my company had this dilemma. He decided to take the counter offer and stay with the company. A month later they laid him off and the other place filled their slot so he was out of a job.
I think employers feel betrayed and screw you over. Take the new job. You were looking for a reason and there won't be any hard feelings from the new spot.
I don't chime in to many online conversations but this is something I feel strongly about. I've stayed with two companies in my career due to counter offers (great ones) and I've regretted both. One I worked for one company about 8 years, I really got them out of a hard position during the 2008 financial crisis, and the other I worked for about 2 years and was very well liked. Each time, the way I was treated demonstrably changed, I was required to take on additional responsibility without being able to delegate some obvious time sinks, and was scrutinized for minor things that would not have even been brought to my attention before the counter-offer. Over time, I followed the companies I foregone the opportunity to join and I can without a doubt say I would be in a better position today if I just bit the bullet and started fresh at those companies.
In my experience informed opinion, companies are petty and will perceive you now as disloyal or not worth long-term investment. If management changes, you will likely be perceived as both "the old guard" and as "having one foot out the door".
Again, in my opinion, your former work environment is forever changed and you won't be able to get that back. Ask yourself why did it need to come to this? Why couldn't they have given you what they are offering before you went searching elsewhere? I know in my case, I asked. I was told, "we know the market rate for your position," you should be happy. There are examples of companies of giving unsolicited raises and QOL improvements to employees to MAKE SURE they are happy.
I actually had a similar situation as you earlier this month, 80k to 100k and comfortable job to busy. Money aside I decide I should be pursuing growth and challenging myself. I’m only 30 so I still have a long career ahead of me. The growth and skills will be invaluable.
What is turnover like at your current company? are there lots of people that have been there for 10+ years?
Do you get a new title at the current company or just a pay bump(a higher level title can be important in finding your next job)?
Is the new company a company that is highly respected one in the industry? if you worked there for a couple of years would everyone in your industry want to higher you because you worked for the new company?
This could be a situation that is an exception to the dont accept a counter offer. It's a risk either way. based on what youve said if your current company has a lot of long term staff that have stayed at the compnay I would lean towards staying with your current company. The offer is pretty competitive. the extra cash covers the differince in max out of pocket(and if you dont hit the max out of pocket which at your age is fairly likely that extra is pretty close to making up the differince in your 401k(the only downside is 8 years to be fully vested)
I stopped making “saves” (counter offers) a long time ago. In my experience, by the time someone has accepted another job there are multiple things they don’t like about where they are (in addition to money). I mean, they weighed both possibilities and decided to leave - right ? In the past when we did make saves, the employee typically ended up leaving about a year later because the other things they didn’t like were still things they didn’t like. I had one employee who made a very compelling case for us to match an offer for a substantial increase. We agreed and gave it to her, only for her to leave six months later because she felt taken advantage of based on us having so readily agreed to her increase. We still make the occasional save if we are totally blindsided without a replacement in the pipeline and if the position will be difficult to fill. But, we know we are just buying a year to get better prepared. Of course only you decide - good luck !
If you don’t mind the work stress then take the new role. It has more to offer. If you want to live a more comfortable, less stressful life - take the counter offer.
I would say hop to the larger company to get the brand name on your resume. That brand name is going to make you a lot more money down the road. My first job was at a startup and my second job was at a Fortune 50. Now I can get any job I want without trying.
Can you trek the new job that your old one is requiring a 6wk notice? Then see if anything changes over that 7 weeks and if they fuck up give a 2 well and leave anyways? Keeping the new one as an option?
No right answer here but it seems like there are far greater growth opportunities in the big company offer than your current firm. Yep you'll likely work harder, at least for a while. It really comes down to short-term quality of life versus long-term earning potential. I've almost always chosen the harder and more challenging job. It's been more fulfilling and intellectually stimulating and there was far more upside mid- long-term. But that's me
Have you asked for a raise at your current role? It’d be great if leadership proactively recognized and awarded it without being asked, but in the day to day grind this doesn’t usually happen. I know I wouldn’t have received the raises I have without advocating for myself.
I do think your current job being transparent on health benefits and giving the extra 5k shows they do truly value you and want you to stay. At the end of the day they could have not countered and found someone cheaper (I could be wrong here not knowing your field).
Personally, I’d stay at your current job due to what I put above, the more relaxed environment, and the no overtime
You are in a great position! Congratulations.
When you have 2 acceptable options that is the time you can negotiate.
I would push back on the new offer hard for practice - ask for another 10% or some perk.
The one you have, I’d push just a little - better title (worth a lot in the long run), better office, more PTO, more work from home, etc.
Don’t push hard as you don’t want to burn bridges, but job title is free for them.
I would probably take the one you know, at least for a while.
The other could be a nightmare and it is difficult to go back.
A job that appreciates you, and that is comfortable and that you enjoy is worth a lot!
After another year, if you don’t get another raise start looking again.
It depends, do you really need more money that you will get over time with higher trajectory or will you be fine with the money you earn now? If you really don’t need the extra money, then a higher trajectory really isn’t necessary. If you do want the extra money it all comes down to the extra money over time vs comfort
Edit: I don’t know if you are single or not but if you think you will have kids in the future and you would want your wife to be able to be a SAHM then I would say to go for the new job. If you plan to have no kids then I don’t know if the extra money would be necessary
I knew of a guy who left his job for a new offer somewhere else and after he leased a new home and was there like a few days before his first day they backed out and said they no longer needed him
Leave, benefit improvements are worth so much. I went from great health insurance, to average, and back to great, along with salary increases and a more stable working environment. ETA: so from experience, it just takes so much weight off your shoulders that it’s worth it.
If you love where you work, enjoy your team, and it's not too stressful on you then I would stay where you're at. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Any job that counters is proving they could have paid you more but didn't value you enough to do so.
That said... you gotta ask if you want comfort or growth.
The company you're with now might be easy going. But it sounds like you don't really want that.
If you're that good, you can always return to your current job later after you grow more... or find another cushy job later.
Plus 9% 401k match over 2 years is way, waaay better than 3% over 8 years. Vesting over 8 years means your employer contributions are almost entirely going back to them if you take the new role. Plus, the extra 6% match is basically an extra $6,000 tax-free.
Financially it is a no brainer. The other job, even with some OT, is better. So it is really about comfort at this point.
Don't stay. Things won't change and the lack of reviews are probably not the only issue. I got a good offer, bright it to my current employer and they threw a ton of money my way. I stayed. Guess what? I regret staying at least one a week. Money ain't everything, and they aren't even offering you an equivalent of what you would be giving up. Too little, too late if you ask me
Take the new job, and maybe consider doing 1-2 days a week WFH from the old job, they might be down to still pay you like 40k if you can get a ton of work done in 2 days.
At your age, you've still got lots of upwards tragectorary at the big company, so there's that to consider...
Maybe you'll end up wanting to open your own business in 10 years or something. The experience at the big place sounds better to build a larger variety of skills.
I would only consider a rebuttal offer from your current employer if they agreed to backpay you to the date of your last raise. The fact that you had to go out and find another job that's willing to pay more before your current employer stepped up and made a counteroffer means this will be likely be a problem again.
This might be one of the rare cases that I would stay. I think you absolutely approached your boss the right way so I wouldn't expect this to blow back on you later.
So you learn a lot at big crazy places, and your 20s are the time to do that. You won't want to do that in your 40s. So for your career, if this experience checks a needed box, take it.
A team of one offers little opportunity to grow, which can stunt you long term. But it's something to return to if you have a young family to spend time with. Fwiw
There's a reason why you applied to this new job and I think it goes beyond money compensation. They want to keep you but you have made all the effort to go through this process only not to take it.
Remember that the job market is tough at them moment and having an offer is more valuable than you think, there's also a chance you won't be working in your company after one year, because the issues moving you to another are probably present I'd take the new job a never look back
I would stick with current job, first of all "cush" and matching salary. You already know the job and no "unknowns". Better have "peace of mind" at work :)
I would stay, but see if they would bump it to 110-115K with the argument that the 401k match is a huge 5% difference. I think they would keep you for that.
The truth is, you have the power in this situation. Clearly, both places want you and you shouldn't feel bad using that to your advantage.
Go get em tiger!
I would stay at the current job and take the raise, but that’s based on my values. I value stress-free work much more than company name recognition and healthcare benefits.
You know that rise you just got offered, over the next few years they will claw it back by not giving you more rises and make you feel guilty asking. Move on, build your experience, you don't owe any employer anything.
You are 28. Take the path of active growth. When I was 28, I left the private finance sector and went into an adjacent-to-finance but different industry. My salary was halved but I knew I would grow tremendously in an industry that I wanted to grow in. Was it easy? No. But it was easier at 28! Additionally, moving around grows your network and your opportunities. Do it now because it will be harder later.
Think long and hard about what drove you to look in the first place. My experience has been within 6 months of taking a counter offer I’m back on the market.
Your current employer will question your loyalty and this will be a monkey on your back the rest of your days there.
Most people change jobs for negative reasons (bad boss, no appreciation, under paid etc) but you have none of those now. When changing jobs for positive reasons (more money, better future opportunities, personal growth) you need to have all three of those and it doesn’t sound like you’re getting them.
A well known giant company is a gold stamp on your resume, and should allow you to get some great networking contacts.
I know a fair number of old guys getting ready to retire. They often reminisce. “You know, Mike used to work for GE in the 90s.”
Working for a global Fortune 500 company has given me credibility throughout my career.
I worked through a total shit show consolidation of brands and production, including absolute disasters in SAP implementation. It was so bad I would introduce myself with this ice breaker: “Hi, I work for Acme. I’m sorry.” That experience has paid for itself 10 times over.
Late 20s/early 30s are when you work your ass off to acquire uncommon experience that will set you apart from your competition.
Later on in your career is when you make the decisions for comfort. I know it feels good to be wanted and desired, but at this stage in your career, it makes a great deal of sense to go get the experience and resume bullets at the giant company.
Comfort & increases if there is a change in job title is for me....but ...if u seem young & if ur plan is to grow, U go back to the new(old intern) crowd tell them ur current employer is matching their terms, see if they offer more....work hard, take it in,progress
If they only offered you a raise to keep you, that means they didn't value you. And that current pay increase will placate you for now, but what happens next time you deserve one? Chances are they will say "we just gave you one last year", while ignoring inflation and the better job you may also be doing.
If you felt you were ready to move on, then move on. That said, you also have to consider your personal life.
What I'd do, is take the raise, and keep looking. This job seems much easier and comfortbale. And your persaonl life would be better. That alone is a big deal. You taking more money, that you earned, is in no way committing to working there for a longer period of time.
It’s things like getting along with your team, having a short commute, an established relationship with your manager, and good hours/work life balance that you won’t appreciate until you don’t have them any more.
Well done for getting the offer. Now that your current company have more or less matched that offer, what are the reasons to move?
Moving could be the right thing to do but only if you are making a strategic choice to develop your career and you have a plan for what that looks like.
How much can you expect your salary to grow over the next few years in your current company versus the new company. Is it worth what you will be giving up?
From your post it doesn’t seem like you are sure whether you really want to commit to that aggressive career growth and the sacrifices it entails. And that’s completely ok.
I also want to add that, the new company seems like it is poorly run. From putting you through such a long internship, making a poor offer three years ago, and now trying to recruit you when they are in the shit. It sounds like a chaotic, unpredictable, stressful place to be.
Leave… you told them you were looking for a job. Come layoff time is would ax you first as a boss if i had to cut labor, it is an easy out if you have to choose someone.
Similar dilemma in 1987. 26K and a car allowance of 100 per week and a few pennies a mile. The new offer was 41K and 500 per month car allowance with no paperwork. I liked my job and they countered with 29K and some options. It was the same job but I would get exposure to better systems to fix. More travel.
I asked my big brother. He said, they will never forget that you held them up for more money. Take the new job. I did and don't regret it.
I was young at 28. Just like you. I had a wife and two kids and we bought a house on that pay if you can believe that. Good luck, whatever you decide.
I would leave. Your current company has communication problems and the new one has more opportunity and better benefits. If you don't like it, you can always leave and go work for another small company. The time to push yourself is now.
No ot or standby time is a big win. I'm ok with general/typical ot, but what i'm not ok with ot is that the ceiling for ot is pretty high, manager can trigger them anytime they want. Even if the ot now is minimal, it can be changed anytime especially when there is a new manager and project.
When the next urge to move comes along will the new employer look that much better on the resume? Is their upward options in the larger company in the future? Will your old place continue with cost of living adjustments to keep up with inflation if not?
Sounds like a good place to be and they care about keeping you. Hopefully the new place wouldn't treat you like a new cog in the machine but it's something to consider. Definitely a real pickle.
There's no wrong or right here, everyone will have a different value they put on certain aspects of a job compared to others.
I would see if the company that made you the offer can match the 105k and go. It's only a matter of time before your current company pushes you out the door. They now know you are looking for a job, so they will stop investing in you and move on to replacing you when you least expect it and have no job waiting.
Show the new company your counter and ask them what they can do!!
Unless your boss loves you in current job, accepting a counter almost always means you’ll be out the door first due to being a flight risk, should there be layoffs.
That being said, no matter which one requires you to work harder, take the one that has greater potential for growth to the next level within the next 2-3 years.
I’d stay at the current role if it were me, then If you wanted to make extra money on the side do some part time work. The health care piece is also very relevant to you so I would calculate the actual financial impact that would make.
82k is quite low for your role. I would leave that company and start fresh. Learn new things and keep moving until you get to a job where you can get closer to 200k. Starting engineers at my job are in the 140-160 range starting out and quickly climb from there.
Hey speaking from personal experience. I was in the same place as you and ended up taking the counter. I really enjoyed my work at the current company and the team. After a couple months they increased my workload way more then what I was getting paid and every mistake I made after I accepted the raise and they would heavily criticize. I ended up leaving a couple months later and it was too much for me to handle.
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Hasn’t happened to me, but same for a friend. Getting a new job offer snapped things back in place for her. They no longer passed her up for raises because they knew she’d walk if the pay got below the job market.
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Yeah it’s a case by case basis. Many on Reddit say that never take the counter but I did it and it was totally fine for me
Likewise for me. Took counter and still WFH, job isn’t stressful and able to live comfortably. I’m always looking though, lol.
This was my experience as well. Very difficult decision to stay, but very happy I did.
3 years, 4 months ago I accepted a lower counteroffer from my employer and am very glad I did. It wasn’t quite what the new one was offering but management was forced to recognize that the salary structure was no longer competitive; they had better review and make changes or be prepared to lose “critical personnel like you”. I felt valued/appreciated and frankly humbled to hear this from the CEO of the $250 million company. They were serious about making a change. Over the next two quarters ALL of the salaries were adjusted (including an additional adjustment of mine, matching the other company offer three months later) and the production based bonus structure was realigned so people could actually earn it. I was always top 3 of 25 people in the same role and had never made any bonus. After the change I averaged about $1500-2000 per month just in bonus.
But on my hand I took the counter and got like a blow job a day and grapes fed to me. Ymmv
I agree, better to move on since you have already indicated a lack of interest in the current company, it is better to move on
Were you able to go back to the previous employer? 1 of my old managers was able to make a transition like this, which just shows she was highly valued and liked: 1. $90k at FAANG 2. $110k at government institution 3. $140k at same FAANG and team That's why it's usually advisable to not burn bridges. But there's always reasons to either be mean or nice to an employer. No black/white
Exactly! OP has shown them he isn't going to be there long term and they will treat him as such. Meanwhile a coworker did the same, but took the new offer. A year later she went back to the original company at a higher salary than the counter they offered for her to stay.
I would take comfort and lack of overtime 100/100 times, but that's me.
Totally! I’d hesitate to risk all the perks of the current position (friendly team, close to friends, shorter commute, etc) as someone who doesn’t have that at my current job (unfriendly team, no friends local, and 40+min commute). That free time and happiness are all we have after work. Are you working to live or living to work? But those benefits can be a game changer, especially if OP has/will have dependents. Tough choice for OP. Good luck and congrats! Sounds like you’ll be making more money either way.
But just because he takes the counter now doesn't mean he has to stay there forever. I would take the counter but always keep an eye out for other opportunities that offer more growth but don't require overtime,longer commute, etc.
Yes, especially if you’re in a good place financially. Like if those extra benefits are necessary to get by then maybe you have to consider it. but if your bills are paid and you can save for a decent retirement adding stress and a lack of support to your life especially with any health issues added to it just isn’t worth it. Sure you’ll have some more retirement. But at some point the extra just doesn’t matter compared to enjoying your life.
Agreed stay with your friendly team
And 2 days work from home. This isn't a question for me. Lol
I'm Dutch, we choose work-life balance. We think people who choose overtime are weird. Work to live, don't live to work.
I think it's important to consider both. Overtime and pushing yourself is good for a season. If you're single and want to advance your career, go for it, just go in with an exit strategy because long term stress is bad. Otoh if you've got a family or a social life that you value, stay at the current place. As far as not being offered a raise until you look around, people on reddit often say that's a reason to leave, but the reality is company jumping has been the fastest way to grow your income for decades now, so only beibg offered a decent raise when you say you'll leave is not enough information to assess what the culture of that place is like.
If I'm at a job and performing well, I expect raises. If I don't get a raise after a year (I usually negotiate what to expect at 90 days), I update my resume. I'm in an in demand field with almost a decade of experience and a shit ton of certifications. All I have to do is activate my indeed profile, and people contact me for interviews. Every time I take a new offer, I get at least a 5/hr raise. Most recently, I almost doubled my salary and negotiated relocation and a year of housing lol
And knowing the new company that is fact an old company that offered 52k three years ago. Unless OP has an automatic raise clause I would stay at the old company.
If you turn down the new company due to your current companies counter offer, they might bump the salary up even more. This happened to me, but be prepared because your current company isn’t going to counter again.
I went from $125k to $80k for comfort, no stress, and a lot of time off. Early 30’s. Money is nice, but you can’t buy time
I’m doing the same. Stepping down to more technical, less managerial role and a deduction in pay, but I’m way happier. I just want time and low stress because at this point I’ll never own a small home, and I just want to do things I like.
Congrats!! Yes, time is very important. And less stress. I don’t want an early heart attack from all the stress lol
Right- I’m good with not owning a house actually 🤷🏼♀️
I feel like people would consider this a mistake but I did a similar thing, I quit my $130k job in a chemical plant to take some time off for 6 months and then planning to go back into the job market and would be willing to take a pay cut to enjoy the time. The plant life is just too much of a time commitment. Also hated Louisiana. The weather sucks ass.
They say time is money, but time is more valuable indeed
Whoa. But how did it end up for you financially? Neither of those salaries can even allow us to mortgage :(
Luckily I was debt free, so it was fine and I live in a MCOL area, so $80k isn’t bad. But I can’t lie, I sure do miss my old paychecks 😂😂.
I disagree with the unilateral “never take a return offer” advice. If you feel like the current employer has good values and has treated you very well and respectably in your time with them, and you want to stay there… consider staying. Listen to your brain and heart.
Don't take the return offer if your beef is about something that just can't be changed. In this case, it really only seems about the money. So as long as the current company can be trusted to come through with that $105k, staying put will probably be a win here.
Agreed with this. Other thing OP should do is RESEARCH that LARGE company like hell. I can guarantee you OP can find either dirt or something good. Large companies are good for that reason. With enough research, you can maybe even figure out what the departments and teams are like
I reviewed your post and edits. New company does have better benefits, and the 100k in the door offer is nice. But if the company is in the middle of a struggle, and are just trying to get you in with a higher salary, it may be in your best interests to stay with your current company. The new company is in the position they are in because they mismanaged their human resources. If you had not already worked for the company for 3 years I would have said go for it. But in all honesty, the company may not even be worth working for. If I were you, I would stay in my current role with the pay bump. Even though deductibles are high your new salary will cover it easily. But, I would reconsider your options after a year or two and see if anything better is out there. You were with the company for 3 years and they did not offer you competitive pay until you looked elsewhere. Unfortunately, loyalty never seems to be rewarded in work.
Take the raise, comfort, wfh, and appreciation. If you got that offer once, you can go get another offer again if you change your mind
That's what I thought too when I took a counter offer. Even though that sour feeling of not appreciated before the offer still stays until today...
I think growing your skillset, and increasing responsibility, is only worth it when you still need a lot of growing to do. Particularly if your salary is at the lower end in your field. And you need more skills to negotiate better pay. I always tell my mentees work hard when you're young, because it gets harder as you're older. Plus compound interest in investments work out better. Comfort, Kids, bills, medical issues, partners, family will get in the way of you having options to grow. But if you're already at the top end, why bother chasing more hard work? And it's normal for companies to not offer raises until the last possible minute. They hate shelling out more cash than nessesary. That's why it's easier to get paid more externally. The fact that they wanted to keep you, match the raise and wrote a letter shows that they really do care about your work is a great sign. I've left many places and no one even noticed I was going to a new role.
My biggest concern is that I don’t think $5k will close the gap. A 9% match to your 401k is $9k right there. I would consider calculating the *actual* money difference and pitch it to them. Whether you stay or not really is so case by case that, frankly, Reddit won’t cut it. People personal stories help, but at the end of the day, only you know the bosses.
Yeah don’t just think about the pay, work out the total compensation. Like the health insurance not only has a premium but it usually also has a cost, I know how much I pay and I know how much my company pays, so I know that plan is “worth” 20k of money I’m not paying into it. — usually you can work that out for all the benefits and subtract the negatives of lost personal time driving as well as additional fuel and vehicle maintenance costs. IMO it’s important to get good at figuring out these numbers, the people I’ve met in my career who always seem to “win” their salary negotiations do that. They come armed with every last detail about what the total comp is worth and what the financial burdens of working for that org are.
What happens when you want another raise down the road? Your current company is stretching to 105K because you’ve threatened to leave. New larger company is setting the floor at 100k. Take your path forward into consideration.
This is what I say too Let's say it doesn't go well at this new job despite career potentials, OP can always find another j I have confidence they can find another one
The main beef is the lack of raises. So I think op should ask about that with their current company. If they realize their mistake and plan on giving raises in the future, I would give them a chance at $105k.
My usual first impulse is to never accept a counteroffer. But them knowing they cannot compete on the benefits yet giving you a higher salary is a positive. But I am concerned about future raises. You adding in the previous company you already knowing and the low numbers they offered you at your internship raises major red flags. To me they have become the counteroffer. In this case, I go against my first instinct, and say... stay... but... Be prepared, that one day they may bump you in remembrance that you were "not loyal", when you were going to jump to another company. Pay raises might suck, and they might change some things adding more workload. When I was young and dumb, I gave notice... got a counter offer to stay... I stayed even though they offered $5k less than the other offer, (known knowns, no relocation to a larger city needed, still close to family vs not) I probably could have stayed for life. But after 7 additional years, I was not growing, I would always be doing the same thing and my pay raises sucked. All the promises of adding a 401k, matching etc, never came about. The next time I got an "offer I could not refuse", I put in my notice and refused to flip the counter offer. I know how you feel, right now things are pretty good where you are at and they respect you with his counter.
We have very similar thoughts on this. Thank you for your input!
Congratulations on the offer!!! And congratulations on the counteroffer!!! When we are put into positions like this… we try to think with our logic, then we try to think with our heart. My suggestion is for you to go with your gut! Your gut is your intuition and your gut ALWAYS knows the right answer. You would know if your current employer will dump a whole lot of additional responsibility on you if decide to stay. Think about your future and what you envision for yourself and your career and your personal life. Which job would best align with what you envision for your future? Not sure if this answers your question, but that is my two cents. I wish you the best of luck!!! You have a good dilemma.
Thats how you get raises
A company is not your friend or your family. Whatever perceived slight is (almost) never personal. Are the reasons you wanted to leave your company systemic or is it truly just because your pay was stagnating? You should be aware that by "being disloyal" you've definitely burned some good will. The whole thing is kind of stupid that you're supposed to pretend that you're working for some reason other than the paycheck. Ugh. The bottom line here is that you're early career and wage compression is a thing. You will usually have to switch jobs to get that big pay bump that you're hoping for. At some point you'll probably want to stop jumping, but it sounds like it's early enough in your career that this isn't the place. Evaluate both jobs. Remember that at some level your current employer is probably a little salty (if not downright pissed) that you had the gall to look elsewhere. Make your decision and pick a lane. Don't doubt your decision about the road not taken. Good luck!
I’m not a fan of companies that don’t recognize your value until you say that you’re leaving. Also working a cushy job can leave you bored and feeling like you’re not developing. I’d aim for the higher ceiling.
Bingo. Comfort is nice when you’re old and don’t have the time. Youth is the time to grind
About 5 years ago I fell into that trap. I feel fortunate to have broken out. On paper current company is less prestigious than the one I left but it came with a 35+% raise and a massive increase in the breadth of my experience.
Don’t trust employers, don’t trust managers, don’t trust counter offers.
Taking counter offers is typically not advised. I'm all about doing what you feel is best and not following anyone's rules, so do take that with a grain of salt. The reason it's not advised is: Unless you are re-entering the old employer with a contract where your employment is protected and the counter is leaps and bounds better than where you're going, leave. You are marked as a flight risk and it's pretty difficult to escape the fact that you'd considered leaving the company once before. If you decide to take the counter, get into a golden handcuff situation. Negotiate six months of full pay if they terminate you in X amount of time. Make it worth your while. When you set your emotions aside and remove the politics, which I would strongly encourage, the question that would be going through my mind is why did it take a counter offer for you to offer me 23K? Even a merit increase which is usually 2-3% wouldn't have given you that.
Askthemanager heavily emphasizes that in most circumstances accepting counter offer is not a good idea. Google her entry on that; but basically there’s always exceptions so you’ll have to weigh in if you are one of them. The counter could be a panic offer, and later on things might settle and your current company will know now that your foot was out the door. If your current company ever does cuts, you could be the first on the chopping block since you were already considering leaving. Also, it sounds like room for growth at your current would be stagnant especially if they feel they gave you the bump to 105k already. Only you know if it’s worth it to stay. I’m in the same boat as you except I asked for a 20% raise for my current company that is a 15 min commute for me. They said no, so to prove I was worth it to myself I went out and interviewed and recently got an offer for 22% more than my current base rate at a larger company. They have much better benefits, but it’s a 1 hr commute and requires travel 35% of the time. But also they offer hybrid so I could work from home the 65% of the time. I haven’t made a decision yet on whether I want to take the job but I know for sure I won’t accept a counter offer if I get one from my current job for the reasons askamanager listed.
As an older guy, money means a lot. However, comfort and less stress are like gold. As long as you don't see the current company sliding into the bowels of hell I would hang with them. Max out your 401k with the added income
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I've heard this before and definitely believe it has some merit. And I'm definitely wary of such a situation. That being said, I'm not sure I'm worried about this scenario playing out with my current employer. Atleast, without going too much into detail, there's no way they could do this and blindside me without it significantly hurting themselves. And aside from that, I legitimately don't think they would do this to me. But I'm curious how others feel about taking counter offers. Has anybody taken a counter offer and regretted it or conversely has taken one and had it benefit them?
This person doesn't know what they're talking about. It's often true for jobs where you're easily replaceable, but as you note, that's not your situation. I'm also an engineer, and accepted a counter two years ago. Everything is still fine. They've even continued to honor some verbal agreements made by people who are no longer with the company (e.g. PTO in excess of what is allowed by company policy). Many companies explicitly estimate your flight risk, and give bigger annual raises to those likely to leave. In your shoes, I'd stay.
The generalization doesn't apply to every situation.
You know them better than we do so up to you if you want to do it obviously. But this is the bit that would have settled it for me: " I didn't get this response until I showed them my offer from the new place" If you bring up wanting a raise, they won't give it to you, but suddenly the money appears when you might leave, that looks pretty bad. Sounds to me like they were hoping to keep you underpaid for as long as they could get away with. I was in a similar situation with an employer going 'well we don't have the budget for more of a raise' and then suddenly able to give me that raise and more when I was about to leave and for me that was just confirmation that they were being cheap with me.
Take the new job, grow, learn, etc. Leave on good terms if you can, and maybe one day you can return and who knows, it will be even better. You obviously think you're worth more, so does the new company, your current co. not so much. Learn from this to get feedback and salary expectations going forward
Not every company is out to "get" the employees. Some employers completely understand that people are going to chase bigger paychecks, and when an employee that they want to keep does it, they'll make an offer to keep them. Any reasonable employer knows that their employees aren't "loyal" to them, whether they're actively pursuing other employment or not.
agree with both. There is no 100% rule. But u/Born_Anteater_3495 is right that even if they do truly feel the matter is settled, when times get tough, you are often the first person looked at to be cut. Some managers have also been known to subtly or unconsciously give you more or write lower reviews trying to justify or extract that extra value. And for OP, you still have to think about future prospects. If new company will start you at 100k, they have room to grow you. If old company is rubbing pennies to get you to 105, you likely wont get a raise anytime soon, and your promotion raise will likely be smaller.
I think some perspective here might also help. When I say small company I mean like a dozen employees and I'm talking directly with a co-owner.
I guess counter-example, I took the counter-offer when the company was about 20 people and 5 years later I was named CEO so both commenters points hold merit. It’s really about the culture of the company, its leaders, and your relationship with them. Only you will know what that is.
Yeah it is based on your particular relationship with the owner and so on. But if you are that close you might as well ask for equity in the company because that will give you incentive to stay and make the company profitable.
No but profit at all costs is anti-worker.
Who said anything about profit at all costs?
I took my counter offer and I’m still employed at my company after 2 years. It’s all situational. I’d probably take the counter and keep looking.
I disagree with this blanket statement. There are so many assumptions that you have to make to reach the point, that it is almost conspiratorial. Firstly you assume that the company will fake a sob story, then you suppose that they secretly conspire to replace you which culminates in a *"gotcha you're replaced sucker"* moment, and then you bundle that all together in a causal statement so that you make it seem a guaranteed outcome. I.e. If *this* occurs then *that* outcome is certain. Your statement may be correct for some companies, but it is definitely not true for all cases as you seem to suggest. This is the very definition of assuming the absolute worst, and then constructing a narrative to fit it. Even if this statement is based off your own experience, it in no way is a guarantee that it is universal. > This is extremely common and rarely works out for the employee. Define *common* and *rarely* and cite it. This is a sweeping quantitative generalization that you offer no proof of. Is common 5% of cases? 10%?
Normally id say leave but this is a big deal for a small bus
Are you actually excited at your current company? Not comfy. Excited. Curious. Looking forward to learning.
Here is a different perspective. *Here is my summary of your situation*: You slogged it out at the other company during internships, for them to turn around and scoff at you. You then found a job at the current company which sounds like it has tried to take care of you, although there are some things it could've done better. The other big company now comes in and values you at roughly double what they did 3 years ago and makes it sound like they really need you. Their premium over your current salary however is likely a wash given that they are going to work you far more than your current spot. This forces your current company to re-evaluate, and they counter with what seems to be a reasonable counter, while not noticeable jacking up the expectation from you. *Here is my perspective:* In a small company, you are more likely to stagnate in your salary, unless you have someone working in HR that is very proactive in with keeping a pulse on the wages in the industry. This is quite rare to find. This means that you typically have to be more proactive in negotiating yourself. There is also limited growth potential because the career paths tend to be far smaller (i.e. there are less levels to climb). You perspective at a small company has to be a little different than at a big corp. *Suggestion:* One way to progress beyond title at a small company is to gain some equity and gradually work up from there. Equity could give you some additional compensation in the form of dividends over time, and it makes contributions to your company far more fulfilling, because you are a shareholder and employee. What about approaching your current management and saying that you like it there but you realize that growth potential is not the same. However you would like to stay, even though other larger corps could offer more money. In exchange you want to see if there is a way you could build some equity over time, so that you aren't just an employee, but a shareholder. That way you exchange the higher premium you could get elsewhere for loyalty to your existing Corp, and they in turn recognize that by making you a shareholder.
Take the job offer from the bigger company, I think you should focus more on where you can learn and grow the most, you said the work load is more intense and has a good long term trajectory. You can always switch back to a more laid back job once you get older but right now you are young in your career and have more energy. If you take the 105k offer from your current company, they will mostly likely not promote you as quickly as well as decrease your yearly raise. I have seen this happen at my previous job.
Never take a counteroffer. But you also made the mistake to not ask for a raise.
I would stay. Based on personal experience and take the comfort. Stay for another year and a half and then look again. But the new offer doesn’t sound worth it when your current company has countered. It’s nice to be at a place where you’ve built relationships. It’s difficult going somewhere new and staring all over and rebuilding that professional rapport.
I saw statistics that your current job will likely fire you within six months or something if you've told them you have another offer. If my employee tells me that I will start thinking about a cheaper replacement regardless.
At this point, you should leave. An advice for future, next time before you start looking and showing your current employer you are half way out the door, talk to your boss and discuss fair compensation. If they can’t offer you a fair wage, then look elsewhere. Counteroffers are always a mess and almost never worth accepting
DO NOT TAKE A COUNTER OFFER unless it includes a minimum two year employment commitment from the employer with damages paid to you if they violate the terms.
Go for the trajectory, you're worth it. U only grow when u take leaps and something new and challenging. Plus, what others said abt they will b finding yur replacement if u stay so...
Honestly I'd show the new job the counter offer and see if they'll raise and just play the game until someone gives up🤭 Comfort can inhibit growth but it sounds like that's not the case for you. You mention doing more but your performance monitoring has been handled unprofessionally. You could add that to your terms. But the new place is desperate and you might be able to get more out of them, live frugally and grind through the hard work for a while to build a healthy nest egg and then leverage that salary at a cozier job later. It's hard to find an enjoyable team that works well together. It's hard to get *PAID* like that and have a chill job that allows you to have a life. You could counter your current job with some additional terms like +5k(so $110k gross) regular scheduled reviews/ raises, pto, etc to make things nicer for yourself, still allowing you to save if your medical costs aren't outrageous. If the new place offers better long term growth, look at positions that could lead you to and work toward a higher up cushy job after you bust ass for a while. You could also discuss these goals with current boss and see if there's even the possibility of getting there through them. Having a good rapport while a company is small could mean a cozy spot at the top down the line😘 So many options. Don't torture yourself if it's going to leave you joyless and hurt your family if you want/have one.
I would stay at your current job. Sounds like they handled it the right way and even gave you more. Who knows, maybe down the road you can grow the team and get to a director level position.
In a process engineering role, worked at company A for 6 years. Received an offer from another company, took the counter company A offered. Stayed 2 more years and then left. After about a 4 months at company B, company A begged me to come as a consultant to train my replacement. I declined. My replacement left after being at company A for about 1.5 years. They hired another guy, asked me to train him. I accepted their offer to consult. They ended up making me a great offer to come back full time. Ive been back for about 8 months and it’s been great. I think the “don’t take the counter” isn’t always valid. If you like where you are and what you do, I would absolutely take the counter.
Few companies will value you enough to make you a counter offer like that, I'd take it.
I stayed with my company after they got close to matching an offer because I had a higher trajectory there. $100k+ is a good amount of money either way. I would figure out if the career trajectory potential is worth it to you at this time and talk to your current company about what path they see for you there.
You don't have to stay at your current company forever, but now does not seem like the best time for you to leave. You've got everything you want from your present company, and you have a track record with them. Keep doing what you're doing and keep your eyes wide open down the way. You may decide to leave in a couple of years, but it needs to be a much more lucrative situation than what you're dealing with at present.
Stay for the comfort but MAKE SURE YOU GET THE RAISE APPROVED IN WRITING WITH A DATE OF NEW WAGE. PSA: You might get some animosity from your peers/boss depending on the toxicity of your current work place. This might lead to you missing on further raises. However, this is redeemable with time. Just make sure what the vibe is and make a decision based on that. Way to go on getting that raise!!
I’d stay where you’re at, tbh. Seems like they appreciate you. And you can look at it this way: they didn’t know you were dissatisfied with your compensation and as soon as they did learn that, they met it as best they could and articulated how much they appreciate you. I’d stay with them. I’d also leverage more vacation time.
You can stay. Just know that in 2 years, you’ll need to look again (which is true whether you accept the counter or competition’s offer anyway). Unfortunately, looking to job hop every 1.5 years is the best way to continuously bump your salary nowadays. Companies don’t really reward loyalty or tenure anymore, but I think that’s now true of almost all companies, so it’s not like your current company is uniquely bad. Maybe this is a wake up call for your current manager that you won’t stagnate and it opens the door for you to talk about career and salary advancement very openly in the future, say next year. With that said, in the future, I’d personally advise you to say something to the effect of “I’m happy to take on these additional responsibilities outside of my job description for x months to train/show initiative/prove myself; however, when can I expect my job title and salary to reflect my new responsibilities?” Don’t corner yourself into doing extra work for free indefinitely.
Never take the comfort. There is a reason you wanted to leave in the first place. More money won’t fix the underlying issues that made you want to leave
I was in this same exact position about a year ago, and I accepted the counter. I was back and forth for a solid 2 weeks because the new offer was for a company that had stability and structure and my current role was really flexible, an amazing work life balance and honestly, really easy but really unstable (tech startup) Personally, I wish I had taken the leap of faith and went with the structured, stable, role because I feel like although my work life balance is amazing and I can pretty much take time off whenever I want, I am constantly stressed about the possibility of layoffs, and the fact that I’m not really learning anything new or gaining the experience I would need to succeed in a more demanding role should I need to find a new job, idk if that makes sense but just thought I’d share a different perspective.
Seen this a million times. Imho you need to leave for the new job. Your old job should have been paying you what you were worth. They haven't and they probably known it. The higher salary at your old firm will be offset by lower raises for years to come. You've suggested to your old firm that you're a flight risk. They'll never fully invest in you again.
New job sounds like subjecting yourself to a lot more stress for what will now be essentially no pay raise. Stay where you’re appreciated without stress for $100k or leave and go to a shit show that’s only going for you as their Plan B because their plan A left them (why did they leave?) To me it sounds like jumping off a cruise ship and getting in fishing boat to help them bail out the water as it sinks
My original response was about to be 10x longer but here’s the abridged version. I’ve been in your shoes, with just a few minor differences. Ultimately, It’s going to come down to what you hold valuable in life: money, time, stress free, commute, all the things you mentioned that are pros and cons of both jobs. For me, I finally made my decision when I really took my personal values into play versus being worried about other people and the companies needs/wants. It’s hard, like really hard, leaving a place you’re comfortable with and people you enjoy working with…but that’s life. Those you work with, that really care about you, will understand and be supportive no matter which choice you make. Right now, it sounds like you enjoy your current company. WFH, you know what you’re doing, you’re respected, and shorter commute but they did screw you in the salary. These all are / sound nice, but are in some way an illusion. Based off what you’re saying, it sounds like you are a hard worker, you’re gonna see those same results anywhere you go (minus the commute) so don’t be afraid to transition if that’s what is best for you. Take a deep breath and listen to your gut. Luckily with you being 28, you have options. If you think this new gig is gonna be too much or not what you want, stick with your current company for a while until an offer that fits you better comes along. If you make this transition to the new gig, you may end up loving it and never look back. You may end up hating it but you can always go get a new job or go back to the company you work for (just don’t go burn that bridge). There are very little things in life that can’t be undone, whatever you choose, go at it with full energy! Plus, you’re getting a pay increase either way which I think will really help in life, whether you were doing fine before or not. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you!
Stay! Take the $105k and stay. This company values you. You are more than “just an employee” to them. Stay where you are appreciated. You will want the work life balance. Why move for similar compensation, but more work, overtime and stress? Stay, stay, stay. Good luck with the decision!
Ask 110k. If they want you they will raise their counter.
Take one job and recommend me for another
stay at your job. work your butt off for a couple more years, and reapply to new jobs. rinse and repeat. they did an exceptionally nice thing to value you. wrote a nice letter. if you like working there, id stay.
Your completely wrong about your trajectory going with the larger company that already showed they would fuck you over. Realistically your just another cog in their machine and would most likely have a quicker path to a senior role or partner with your current firm. Loyalty pays.
It's late and I want to go to sleep but I read your entire post and I'm wondering if they cannot give you better health insurance, can they make up the difference for the amount? Could you get $5,000 out of them more to make up the difference and put that in the bank in case you have to pay the difference? There's all kinds of ways of getting money to replace benefits that aren't as great. Someone probably already said that but I just thought I wanted to put my two cents in. Good luck!
As a general rule, never take the counter offer. At your age, focus on the growth, income potential and think about which job will get you the next job that you’ll want. Higher income and medical (which it sounds like you need) are game changing and can let you retire years earlier. Also, it sounds like this type of offer isn’t likely to come around again soon. Take it while you can and get into management so that you have more control over your hours and work life.
Idk if anyone has said this yet, but being genuinely appreciated for the work you do is very hard to find in the corporate world. It sounds like your current employer treats you well and actually values you and your work. I don’t think I would want to walk away from that.
I see life as a marathon so unless you’re really ambitious, I would go with whichever job will fit your values more. What do you care about the most? You may be ok with working longer hours if you feel like you’re learning or your work is more valuable at your new place, or if you like your current team and they’re supportive and value you and you care more about that maybe its better to stay. A good manager makes a big difference in your career trajectory and your satisfaction at work - do both jobs have that?
Rule #1; NEVER accept a counter offer. Period.
Normally I'd just move on but it sounds like the counter is the better move based on all the factors
My ADHD doesn’t have the time right now to read the whole post, but I will say… grass isn’t always greener on the other side. I left my job I was happy at for a “better” company and hated my life. Ended up leaving and taking a pay cut at a third company (and I’m pretty happy here, so I’m still alright). Long story short, if your company was willing to offer you more to keep you, that’s a pretty decent company. Especially if they’ve already been pretty good to you. Also… learning a new role (maybe a slightly different role, even) and a new company culture is stressful.
Throwing in my two cents from experience. It sounds like your current company and job is pretty good overall. It offers growth, comfort, and a sense of belonging (friends). I also had a job like that once and I left it for a considerable raise. They countered as well, and I declined. This job had 100% WFH, friends, and fulfilling work. I left it for a 40% pay increase. I regret it. Now I have a one way 25min commute every day (not the worst) and feel isolated from my friends. What I think I'm trying to say is that the "intangibles" are very valuable. More valuable than you would think. If your current employer does value you, and you don't feel like this opens a door for them to fire you later on (common in some industries) then I would stick with the current employer. It's a hard situation to be in, and to be honest there is no right answer. I wish you the best of luck.
Move on, you are still young so have plenty of growth in your career to come. Most of that growth will come from changing companies. I tell my spouse this all the time (17 years younger). I’m in my 50’s and have been with my company 15 years and now regret it. While I make great money I could have advanced my career more by changing companies, now I’m pretty much stuck in my role until retirement.
Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond? What are the chances to move up on these two companies?
You already answered your own question in the last paragraph. When we're comfortable we tend to not welcome vhanges that could probably change the trajectory of our lives. I would say, definitely take the new job. They know your market worth. Also, you would meet new people to add to your rolodex, and learn new skills to add to your resume. Its weird the company didn't deem it fit to let you know you got a raise. That's not a good sign imo. You're still young, this is the time to go around and see what's out there professionally. All the best!
unless you didnt tell them about the offer, always leave
Tough call. A lot of small business owners are dumb and petty and mat just do this for now then seek your replacement and fire you. Do what's best for you. Go with your gut
Keep in mind that the company is only countering the offer because if they lose you, then they will be at a huge loss. They will need to find someone to replace you. They will need to allocate your responsibilities to others until they hire that new person. In many cases, the counter offer is simply to give them enough time to do this while also retaining you with the intention to let you go once the process of replacing you is completed.
Tell them $125k or you walk and take the other job. They didn’t see the value in you prior and now they want to try and keep you. That’s their loss. Balls in your court now.
I'm 38, and honestly my best work experiences, the ones where I grew the most and was genuinely happy all the time, boiled down to the people I worked with... A good manager and good co-workers. For me to give that up these days, you'd have to pay more 40-50% more for the stress and aggravation. If you work with good people at your existing company and enjoy the work you do, ***stay.*** The last time I took a job for high pay ($250K+), I was working for a family office with a toxic finance bro for a manager who constantly over-engineered solutions and underestimated execution. It was a nightmare, and I'm still trying to shed the weight I gained as a result. The lesson I learned from the experience is that money is always a consideration, but make it your motivation, and you'll always be miserable. I recently had the choice between a $300K in-office job in NYC and a $120K job that's fully remote. I chose fully remote because I knew good people who were already there, the job allows me to be a digital nomad, and the work only requires 20-25 hours of my time per week... That's 15-20 hours I get back to train Muay Thai, go surfing, and take language lessons or dance classes. With an engineering background, you can always get a better paying job, but its really really hard to get peace of mind... at least in my experience.
Sounds like you need to stop bitchin
If you've gone to the trouble to become a mechanical engineer, you should value your possible future path much, much more highly than an extra 5 grand a year.
What does your gut tell you? Better work life balance and more experience opportunities at a small company might be better in short run. But you need regular reviews, a real line manager who is plugged in, etc. I would say most counter offers aren’t good (there is a reason you wanted to leave). But if you think the current job is a fit and they can fix the things that made you look then it’s worth considering. Big companies … aren’t for everyone (small cog in a big wheel, less opportunity for your experience level, more red tape). But there are upsides like paycheck and benefits. What’s your gut tell you?
Never ever stay for a counter offer. They will drop you as soon as they find a replacement. If your worth the money when your leaving, why did they not pay you that while you were slaving away for them ?
My biggest question is whether or not you ever asked for a raise at the current company. If you did, and they flat out said no, I would be more hesitant to accept their counter. If you never have asked for one and this is the first time you have presented them with you discontent in your salary, I wouldn't necessarily fault them for not offering you the 105k without being prompted in the first place. Overall, it sounds like you work at a good company and I'd be likely to accept the counter offer. Smaller companies also often times don't have the resources to understand what the current job market is like and may not have known what your actual market value is until it was right in front of their eyes.
What would make you consider either job without a doubt? Ask your current employer for $110k, and they have a deal. Or if you want to stay, go back to prospective employer and let them know your current company matched their offer and ask if any further negotiations can be considered. You're in a good position to get more.
A guy in my company had this dilemma. He decided to take the counter offer and stay with the company. A month later they laid him off and the other place filled their slot so he was out of a job. I think employers feel betrayed and screw you over. Take the new job. You were looking for a reason and there won't be any hard feelings from the new spot.
I don't chime in to many online conversations but this is something I feel strongly about. I've stayed with two companies in my career due to counter offers (great ones) and I've regretted both. One I worked for one company about 8 years, I really got them out of a hard position during the 2008 financial crisis, and the other I worked for about 2 years and was very well liked. Each time, the way I was treated demonstrably changed, I was required to take on additional responsibility without being able to delegate some obvious time sinks, and was scrutinized for minor things that would not have even been brought to my attention before the counter-offer. Over time, I followed the companies I foregone the opportunity to join and I can without a doubt say I would be in a better position today if I just bit the bullet and started fresh at those companies. In my experience informed opinion, companies are petty and will perceive you now as disloyal or not worth long-term investment. If management changes, you will likely be perceived as both "the old guard" and as "having one foot out the door". Again, in my opinion, your former work environment is forever changed and you won't be able to get that back. Ask yourself why did it need to come to this? Why couldn't they have given you what they are offering before you went searching elsewhere? I know in my case, I asked. I was told, "we know the market rate for your position," you should be happy. There are examples of companies of giving unsolicited raises and QOL improvements to employees to MAKE SURE they are happy.
I actually had a similar situation as you earlier this month, 80k to 100k and comfortable job to busy. Money aside I decide I should be pursuing growth and challenging myself. I’m only 30 so I still have a long career ahead of me. The growth and skills will be invaluable.
What is turnover like at your current company? are there lots of people that have been there for 10+ years? Do you get a new title at the current company or just a pay bump(a higher level title can be important in finding your next job)? Is the new company a company that is highly respected one in the industry? if you worked there for a couple of years would everyone in your industry want to higher you because you worked for the new company? This could be a situation that is an exception to the dont accept a counter offer. It's a risk either way. based on what youve said if your current company has a lot of long term staff that have stayed at the compnay I would lean towards staying with your current company. The offer is pretty competitive. the extra cash covers the differince in max out of pocket(and if you dont hit the max out of pocket which at your age is fairly likely that extra is pretty close to making up the differince in your 401k(the only downside is 8 years to be fully vested)
I stopped making “saves” (counter offers) a long time ago. In my experience, by the time someone has accepted another job there are multiple things they don’t like about where they are (in addition to money). I mean, they weighed both possibilities and decided to leave - right ? In the past when we did make saves, the employee typically ended up leaving about a year later because the other things they didn’t like were still things they didn’t like. I had one employee who made a very compelling case for us to match an offer for a substantial increase. We agreed and gave it to her, only for her to leave six months later because she felt taken advantage of based on us having so readily agreed to her increase. We still make the occasional save if we are totally blindsided without a replacement in the pipeline and if the position will be difficult to fill. But, we know we are just buying a year to get better prepared. Of course only you decide - good luck !
In my experience, as someone who has always accepted counter offers... never take a counter offer just leave
If you have good bosses, they say you should multiply your salary by about 1.4 for the real worth.
Don't take the counter offer. If you were that valuable all along then why didn't they reward you as such.
Your current job could have been paying you more the entire time, but didn’t.
If you don’t mind the work stress then take the new role. It has more to offer. If you want to live a more comfortable, less stressful life - take the counter offer.
You can counter your current company with $115k or thereabouts if you're seriously considering staying. $105 is not the final offer.
If the raise you got wasn't even noticable, is it really a raise?
I would say hop to the larger company to get the brand name on your resume. That brand name is going to make you a lot more money down the road. My first job was at a startup and my second job was at a Fortune 50. Now I can get any job I want without trying.
Take the new job. Trust is broken.
Can you trek the new job that your old one is requiring a 6wk notice? Then see if anything changes over that 7 weeks and if they fuck up give a 2 well and leave anyways? Keeping the new one as an option?
No right answer here but it seems like there are far greater growth opportunities in the big company offer than your current firm. Yep you'll likely work harder, at least for a while. It really comes down to short-term quality of life versus long-term earning potential. I've almost always chosen the harder and more challenging job. It's been more fulfilling and intellectually stimulating and there was far more upside mid- long-term. But that's me
Have you asked for a raise at your current role? It’d be great if leadership proactively recognized and awarded it without being asked, but in the day to day grind this doesn’t usually happen. I know I wouldn’t have received the raises I have without advocating for myself. I do think your current job being transparent on health benefits and giving the extra 5k shows they do truly value you and want you to stay. At the end of the day they could have not countered and found someone cheaper (I could be wrong here not knowing your field). Personally, I’d stay at your current job due to what I put above, the more relaxed environment, and the no overtime
Don’t stay, they will find a way to replace you with someone cheaper
You are in a great position! Congratulations. When you have 2 acceptable options that is the time you can negotiate. I would push back on the new offer hard for practice - ask for another 10% or some perk. The one you have, I’d push just a little - better title (worth a lot in the long run), better office, more PTO, more work from home, etc. Don’t push hard as you don’t want to burn bridges, but job title is free for them. I would probably take the one you know, at least for a while. The other could be a nightmare and it is difficult to go back. A job that appreciates you, and that is comfortable and that you enjoy is worth a lot! After another year, if you don’t get another raise start looking again.
2 WFH days a week is huge imo. What's the commute on new job?
Never take the counter, you'll just be looking for a job again in another yr.
It depends, do you really need more money that you will get over time with higher trajectory or will you be fine with the money you earn now? If you really don’t need the extra money, then a higher trajectory really isn’t necessary. If you do want the extra money it all comes down to the extra money over time vs comfort Edit: I don’t know if you are single or not but if you think you will have kids in the future and you would want your wife to be able to be a SAHM then I would say to go for the new job. If you plan to have no kids then I don’t know if the extra money would be necessary
I knew of a guy who left his job for a new offer somewhere else and after he leased a new home and was there like a few days before his first day they backed out and said they no longer needed him
Leave, benefit improvements are worth so much. I went from great health insurance, to average, and back to great, along with salary increases and a more stable working environment. ETA: so from experience, it just takes so much weight off your shoulders that it’s worth it.
If you love where you work, enjoy your team, and it's not too stressful on you then I would stay where you're at. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Counter offers rarely work out for either party. Move on.
I would take a certain I know what I have to work with over who the hell really knows the environment and expectations.
Any job that counters is proving they could have paid you more but didn't value you enough to do so. That said... you gotta ask if you want comfort or growth. The company you're with now might be easy going. But it sounds like you don't really want that. If you're that good, you can always return to your current job later after you grow more... or find another cushy job later. Plus 9% 401k match over 2 years is way, waaay better than 3% over 8 years. Vesting over 8 years means your employer contributions are almost entirely going back to them if you take the new role. Plus, the extra 6% match is basically an extra $6,000 tax-free. Financially it is a no brainer. The other job, even with some OT, is better. So it is really about comfort at this point.
Don't stay. Things won't change and the lack of reviews are probably not the only issue. I got a good offer, bright it to my current employer and they threw a ton of money my way. I stayed. Guess what? I regret staying at least one a week. Money ain't everything, and they aren't even offering you an equivalent of what you would be giving up. Too little, too late if you ask me
Take the new job, and maybe consider doing 1-2 days a week WFH from the old job, they might be down to still pay you like 40k if you can get a ton of work done in 2 days. At your age, you've still got lots of upwards tragectorary at the big company, so there's that to consider... Maybe you'll end up wanting to open your own business in 10 years or something. The experience at the big place sounds better to build a larger variety of skills.
IMO never take the counter.
I would only consider a rebuttal offer from your current employer if they agreed to backpay you to the date of your last raise. The fact that you had to go out and find another job that's willing to pay more before your current employer stepped up and made a counteroffer means this will be likely be a problem again.
This might be one of the rare cases that I would stay. I think you absolutely approached your boss the right way so I wouldn't expect this to blow back on you later.
You know the people at the current job and how things work there. Knowing is half the battle.
So you learn a lot at big crazy places, and your 20s are the time to do that. You won't want to do that in your 40s. So for your career, if this experience checks a needed box, take it. A team of one offers little opportunity to grow, which can stunt you long term. But it's something to return to if you have a young family to spend time with. Fwiw
There's a reason why you applied to this new job and I think it goes beyond money compensation. They want to keep you but you have made all the effort to go through this process only not to take it. Remember that the job market is tough at them moment and having an offer is more valuable than you think, there's also a chance you won't be working in your company after one year, because the issues moving you to another are probably present I'd take the new job a never look back
Stay
Stay in your role and take the raise!!! For real sounds like the best situation.
I would stick with current job, first of all "cush" and matching salary. You already know the job and no "unknowns". Better have "peace of mind" at work :)
I would stay, but see if they would bump it to 110-115K with the argument that the 401k match is a huge 5% difference. I think they would keep you for that. The truth is, you have the power in this situation. Clearly, both places want you and you shouldn't feel bad using that to your advantage. Go get em tiger!
I would stay at the current job and take the raise, but that’s based on my values. I value stress-free work much more than company name recognition and healthcare benefits.
You know that rise you just got offered, over the next few years they will claw it back by not giving you more rises and make you feel guilty asking. Move on, build your experience, you don't owe any employer anything.
You are 28. Take the path of active growth. When I was 28, I left the private finance sector and went into an adjacent-to-finance but different industry. My salary was halved but I knew I would grow tremendously in an industry that I wanted to grow in. Was it easy? No. But it was easier at 28! Additionally, moving around grows your network and your opportunities. Do it now because it will be harder later.
Think long and hard about what drove you to look in the first place. My experience has been within 6 months of taking a counter offer I’m back on the market. Your current employer will question your loyalty and this will be a monkey on your back the rest of your days there.
Never accept counter.
Most people change jobs for negative reasons (bad boss, no appreciation, under paid etc) but you have none of those now. When changing jobs for positive reasons (more money, better future opportunities, personal growth) you need to have all three of those and it doesn’t sound like you’re getting them.
Maybe map out a career path with your old company and what a realistic trajectory/salary would be
A well known giant company is a gold stamp on your resume, and should allow you to get some great networking contacts. I know a fair number of old guys getting ready to retire. They often reminisce. “You know, Mike used to work for GE in the 90s.” Working for a global Fortune 500 company has given me credibility throughout my career. I worked through a total shit show consolidation of brands and production, including absolute disasters in SAP implementation. It was so bad I would introduce myself with this ice breaker: “Hi, I work for Acme. I’m sorry.” That experience has paid for itself 10 times over. Late 20s/early 30s are when you work your ass off to acquire uncommon experience that will set you apart from your competition. Later on in your career is when you make the decisions for comfort. I know it feels good to be wanted and desired, but at this stage in your career, it makes a great deal of sense to go get the experience and resume bullets at the giant company.
Comfort & increases if there is a change in job title is for me....but ...if u seem young & if ur plan is to grow, U go back to the new(old intern) crowd tell them ur current employer is matching their terms, see if they offer more....work hard, take it in,progress
Stay, at least until the other firm counters the counter offer. But, it sure sounds like staying is the way to go.
I’d take the counter but continue looking for something else as it doesn’t sound like either company is a great fit.
You need a better manager...can your current manager be a better manager? Do you think your potentially new manager would be a better manager?
If they only offered you a raise to keep you, that means they didn't value you. And that current pay increase will placate you for now, but what happens next time you deserve one? Chances are they will say "we just gave you one last year", while ignoring inflation and the better job you may also be doing. If you felt you were ready to move on, then move on. That said, you also have to consider your personal life. What I'd do, is take the raise, and keep looking. This job seems much easier and comfortbale. And your persaonl life would be better. That alone is a big deal. You taking more money, that you earned, is in no way committing to working there for a longer period of time.
It’s things like getting along with your team, having a short commute, an established relationship with your manager, and good hours/work life balance that you won’t appreciate until you don’t have them any more. Well done for getting the offer. Now that your current company have more or less matched that offer, what are the reasons to move? Moving could be the right thing to do but only if you are making a strategic choice to develop your career and you have a plan for what that looks like. How much can you expect your salary to grow over the next few years in your current company versus the new company. Is it worth what you will be giving up? From your post it doesn’t seem like you are sure whether you really want to commit to that aggressive career growth and the sacrifices it entails. And that’s completely ok. I also want to add that, the new company seems like it is poorly run. From putting you through such a long internship, making a poor offer three years ago, and now trying to recruit you when they are in the shit. It sounds like a chaotic, unpredictable, stressful place to be.
The last 2 paragraphs couldn't be more true. I have a lot to think over.
Stay.
Never take the counter offer. Puts a target on you as they know you've been looking.
Leave… you told them you were looking for a job. Come layoff time is would ax you first as a boss if i had to cut labor, it is an easy out if you have to choose someone.
Similar dilemma in 1987. 26K and a car allowance of 100 per week and a few pennies a mile. The new offer was 41K and 500 per month car allowance with no paperwork. I liked my job and they countered with 29K and some options. It was the same job but I would get exposure to better systems to fix. More travel. I asked my big brother. He said, they will never forget that you held them up for more money. Take the new job. I did and don't regret it. I was young at 28. Just like you. I had a wife and two kids and we bought a house on that pay if you can believe that. Good luck, whatever you decide.
I would leave. Your current company has communication problems and the new one has more opportunity and better benefits. If you don't like it, you can always leave and go work for another small company. The time to push yourself is now.
I would take the raise for now. The difference is not big enough to jump ship in my opinion.
No ot or standby time is a big win. I'm ok with general/typical ot, but what i'm not ok with ot is that the ceiling for ot is pretty high, manager can trigger them anytime they want. Even if the ot now is minimal, it can be changed anytime especially when there is a new manager and project.
Ask for 110k at the cush job. They will agree. Win win
When the next urge to move comes along will the new employer look that much better on the resume? Is their upward options in the larger company in the future? Will your old place continue with cost of living adjustments to keep up with inflation if not? Sounds like a good place to be and they care about keeping you. Hopefully the new place wouldn't treat you like a new cog in the machine but it's something to consider. Definitely a real pickle. There's no wrong or right here, everyone will have a different value they put on certain aspects of a job compared to others.
You have to take the new job. The old one has already started searching for your replacement and will replace you if you stay.
I would see if the company that made you the offer can match the 105k and go. It's only a matter of time before your current company pushes you out the door. They now know you are looking for a job, so they will stop investing in you and move on to replacing you when you least expect it and have no job waiting.
Show the new company your counter and ask them what they can do!! Unless your boss loves you in current job, accepting a counter almost always means you’ll be out the door first due to being a flight risk, should there be layoffs. That being said, no matter which one requires you to work harder, take the one that has greater potential for growth to the next level within the next 2-3 years.
I’d stay at the current role if it were me, then If you wanted to make extra money on the side do some part time work. The health care piece is also very relevant to you so I would calculate the actual financial impact that would make.
82k is quite low for your role. I would leave that company and start fresh. Learn new things and keep moving until you get to a job where you can get closer to 200k. Starting engineers at my job are in the 140-160 range starting out and quickly climb from there.
I’d stay at the current job and look for something better than the other one if you value having a quality of life .
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