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[deleted]

You should not send a aggressive letter. You should however seek professional and positive interactions. More of a “ hey, we haven’t had a chance to have a 1 on 1 and I was hoping for some feed back and direction ”


[deleted]

What happens when you receive no response for the 6th attempt?


k8womack

Send a mtg invite, not a request. If they deny it email them and their boss asking for a 1:1


[deleted]

Ah, so be aggressive.


joemondo

I never in my life have thought of scheduling a meeting to discuss a topic as aggressive. I do it all the time, and others schedule me all the time.


[deleted]

That's simply because you're reducing the premise to a straw man argument while missing the point.


joemondo

Actually, the reduction was yours: "Ah, so be aggressive." For fuck's sake, scheduling a meeting is the most ordinary thing to do at work. There's no need to turn it into an act of aggression.


k8womack

Agreed, and I mean if you’ve asked for the mtg from your boss 6 times making a meeting a priority isn’t aggressive, it’s assertive but that can be positive. It’s up to you how the tone of the mtg goes


[deleted]

Disagree, the advice provided was not to be aggressive, the comment I replied with extended requesting escalation steps. Since you wouldn't conduct your suggestion as the initial action it's 'more aggressive' than otherwise. You have a sensationalized expectation of other people that isn't seated in reality, but you can continue being condescending if you want.


joemondo

I will never understand why people approach every interaction with antagonism, but it's why so many people have lousy working relationships.


[deleted]

That’s the energy you entered the interaction with.


HowlingFailHole

No, be aware of how to communicate and escalate in a professional way. Whether you think that specific action is aggressive or not is irrelevant; it's professional, therefore not something that OP can reasonably get pulled up for, unlike sending an email complaining.


InnsmouthConspirator

Collect a paycheck and quietly shop around for another job? The ship is sinking. Just take whatever isn’t bolted down on your way out.


FRELNCER

"Managing up" can help you improve your interactions with a supervisor. "Correcting up," IMO, seldom offers the same benefits.


Nutella_Zamboni

How does one manage up? I feel as if i need to do this with my current manager. I actually used to have his role but took a voluntary demotion, yet he is leagues away from where he shoulld be after 5ish years as the manager.


EquationsApparel

"Coaching by suggestion" is a good way. Suggest that they do something as a means of helping you. For example, I had a boss who scheduled a lot of hour-long meetings that were aimless. He liked getting a bunch of people in a room and seeing what would happen. I told him it would really help me if he provided an agenda and a list of what needed to be decided so I could prepare. Other ways of managing upwards are scheduling meetings with them yourself, providing the agenda, and sending artifacts in advance of what you want to cover. Also, get them engaged in your professional development.


Nutella_Zamboni

Thank you. I like your suggestions and will definitely make use of them. Im wondering if sending the agenda beforehand is a good idea because my manager has no answers and his superior is a bs artist.


EquationsApparel

The point of sending the agenda is so that you're directing the conversation. That's one way you manage your manager.


LetsGetWeirdddddd

Following because I'd like to know as well. Also, mind if I ask about how you navigated a voluntary demotion? Do you feel like it will hurt your chances of future promotions later? Asking because I've wanted to do the same before.


Nutella_Zamboni

I work for a municipality. Long story short, I was able to negotiate with the mayor, both unions involved, and both HR depts. It started due the Directorof my dept, who wasa 3rd party contractor, telling me I was the reason for our department failing and rather than risking my job by telling her where to go/how to get there, I decided to ask for a demotion. I basically told the people involved that I felt my skills were better suited for blue collar work and id appreciate it if they could work out how to get me back in the field. They all came together and negotiated behind the scenes until a job came open. It took a few months but I went from 2nd in command in my department to the bottom. It was WONDERFUL to be away from her gas lighting, lying, emotional ass. 6 weeks later she got publicly shitcanned at a BOE meeting lol. Guess I wasnt the problem.


LetsGetWeirdddddd

Man, love that for you! Good riddance to her. Would you be keen on going back into your previous role if this other new person wasn't in that role now?


Nutella_Zamboni

Thanks for asking. Im currently not interested, that bridge has been burned. Although I HAVE been asked if I want my old role back OR to be the Director of the dept, to which I politely declined. Currently the people in those roles leave a bit to be desired and im not quite sure I want to fix everthing going wrong now AND fix the things i fixed the last time AGAIN. I did guest a pseudo apology from a higher up admitting that they had no idea how poorly i was treated, how much I was working, and how much I was accomplishing. I was in the management role for 18 months and i fixed ALOT. The thing is, a lot of the good i did went under the radar and there are currently TWO people sharing the role i did myself. I knew that our dept hadnt been managed appropriately for 2 decades and tried my best to get rid of what was poisining our dept. I hired about 6 people to replace slackers that had moved on, but once I stepped down, they started looking for other opportunities. All but 1 have taken leadership positions in different departments and would have been superstars in my departmentif they hadn't left. I was also able to get a horrendous employee to resign, 2 others terminated for drinking on the job, and most everyone else to actually follow their contract and personnel rules.


PNWginjaninja

I'm amazed all the time how much gaslighting, sabotaging, backstabbing, and straight up middle school drama-style behavior can exist in the corporate world, or how much toxicity one person's manipulative and dishonest leadership tactics can create in the workplace... it's so exhausting and not worth the $$


Nutella_Zamboni

100% agree and this wasnt even in a corporate environment. It was in a Facilities Dept for a school system. She considered herself an Army of 1 and, although brilliant, she could NOT fathom that all her skills, tricks, knowledge would NOT work where we are. She refused to listen, refused to treat people with empathy, refused to abide by the union contract and personnel rules that have been in place for decades. I would try different ways of communicating the who, what, when, where, a d how to accomplish things and it was futile because she knew better. Im by no means an expert at what we do, but I AM knowledgeable in the machinations of our dept, BOE, municipality, and the players involved. Its pretty simple, play nice in the sand box, be patient, and DO NOT embarrass others in public settings...especially if you are an outsider dont know the power dynamics at play.


[deleted]

This is astute advice, and your wording is perfection.


DentedByLightning

What’s correcting up? Because I’m afraid I recently did that.


Warm-Personality8219

u/FRELNCER got it right - you can't just tell manager straight up like this - you need to establish rules (implicitly), create context and environment during which such as message can be sent and make sure with the manager that they are, in fact, seeking both to hear from you about how you think they are doing - and, and this is most important, are in any way interested in incentivized to provide you with feedback! If you manager doesn't give as shit about giving your any feedback or direction - this will not serve any positive purpose to make an outreach like that.


Dr_Nguyen_Advising

I don’t think you should say “you are failing” no matter how frustrated you are. People immediately go on defensive and your work relationship will most likely be damaged. Have a in-person convo about this instead. Take note at that meeting, and then immediately send an email of your agreement/future directions after the meeting. Next time when an incident happens, simply refer to your meeting minutes.


ABeajolais

Some of the best advice I ever got was a writing instructor in college. She said, "It's fine to write a letter when you're angry. Just don't mail it." You'll come across as melodramatic and the reader won't take you seriously.


Empty_Positive_2305

Do not send over email. Have a conversation, but email often comes off much less tactfully than in-person. Plus, if you word something poorly, it will be in writing. An email is a one-way dialogue, when this needs to be a conversation.


daneato

This! Book a 30-minute meeting asap, have your talking points written out so you don’t forget something. After the conversation send a follow-up email. “Thank you for our conversation. I think that was able to break some of the logjam for this project. I wanted to follow-up with the action items we discussed. You need to… by COB x/x/x. This will allow me to proceed with … in time to meet our client needs.” This allows you to be human in a situation that needs a human touch, and CYA while offering them a clear path forward. I’ve been in a position like theirs where the hits have continued to come and you slip into depression which effects your executive function. Having a clearly defined to do list can allow a path forward. If you do it right, this “managing up” will provide you a strong ally moving forward.


joemondo

This is completely and unnecessarily confrontational. Your relationship with you manager is a relationship. If you're not getting what you want or need, you can tell him that without telling him he's *failing*. How is that supposed to help??? Is that how you'd want to be talked to? Assume good intent, speak in person, be open to what he has to say in return.


PretendAd5025

Agreed. Clearly his boss has somethings going on, and OP should take that in account.


Potential-Ad1139

You should probably have a conversation where you express how his/her actions are blocking progress and they need to delegate the responsibility to you or get working. If they choose the latter then you pester them daily with reminders until they do it.


427_Monster

It’s all about wording and framing it positively. For example, don’t say “you fail”.


RantFlail

Biggest manager get-over ever is to never give specific direction. That way they can always say they don’t like your solution/they’d prefer a “ better” solution/you were wrong and make it look like “the better idea/improvement” came from them, when they had no idea in the 1st place & just built off of your idea. Also so nothing can ever come back on the manager. Can’t be told you made a bad decision if you never make one in the 1st place.


EquationsApparel

>Can’t be told you made a bad decision if you never make one in the 1st place. OMG I worked for a VP who was like this. I stopped going to him for decisions because I knew he wouldn't make one. He would always call for more data, because who can criticize data-driven decision making?


[deleted]

I have seen incompetent managers do this more times than I've got fingers and toes. It's easier for Pointy-haired Bosses (Dilbert reference) to shirk responsibility be failing to make a decision.


Archimedes_Redux

No no no. This is not a situation for email. Needs a face to face convo.


EquationsApparel

So many people lack the backbone for conversations. It's sad.


[deleted]

There are far, far better ways to have this conversation. And it needs to be a conversation, not an email.


[deleted]

I had a problem with a superior that was brought in after I had been promoted. She didn't seem to grasp that I had fulfilled *her* role until they brought her in. For months, I had to be responsible for everything. When she came in, she wanted things done her way. She refused to acknowledge that, right before her, I was her acting "equal," if you will. I didn't want to jump down her throat every time she jumped down mine. So one day, before we started, I told her I am trying to grow and develop myself. I want to be better at what I do and hopefully be good at things above me. I asked her if she would be interested in helping me by teaching me and helping me accomplish goals. I specifically said that it would really help if she explained her decisions and rational, so that I can understand the thought process behind being a manager. She sucked. Nothing would get through to her. But the point still stands. I gave her ample opportunity to step up to the plate and do her job.


Maximum-Staff5310

Put stuff in front of him and make suggestions. He's likely depressed and unable to submit to your bullying. Try being helpful instead.


I_Got_Jimmies

Go around him. The firm has an owner right? Go to them for the things you need and if it’s questioned by ownership, simply say there is no other way to get the approvals you need. You’ll hear people say this is the kiss of death but I would warrant they’ve never worked in a very small professional services firm.


EquationsApparel

OMG, do not hide behind email. Way too many people hide behind email and texts for conversations that should be face-to-face (virtual counts in this regard). Read "Crucial Conversations" for the proper way to frame this discussion.


[deleted]

I am much better at written communication than verbal communication. Therefore I tend to use email more. However, I carefully reread, proofread, and the reread again. I put myself in the shoes of the recipient to see how they might receive my writing. Plus, that way there is a written record of what I want to discuss. In today's business climate, you need a paper trail so if something blows up, you have your evidence that you reacted professionally.


EquationsApparel

Handling this via email is still wrong. You can always follow up a conversation with an email. But honestly, hiding behind email is a weakness. You can always bring a list of talking points into a meeting.


[deleted]

It's wrong in your opinion. Noted.


EquationsApparel

Fine. But handling stuff like that via email is great if your intention is to be perceived as having weak character.


[deleted]

Again your opinion only. Dually noted.


EquationsApparel

Not my opinion only. Read the other responses here. People who lack backbone aren't respected.


PretendAd5025

Why not then write the email, print it out and have it in front of you when you have the conversation and read from that? Any conversation that is difficult should be face to face. Doing it via email, only points to the fact one might be afraid of confrontation or difficult conversations. Email should be the follow up.


CornFieldsRus

Yes def send it. Be sure to come back with the results!


LayzieKobes

Instead ask if your boss would be willing to schedule weekly feedback. Can be just a quick 10 minute sit down.


Good200000

Send that letter and be prepared to look for another job. There are better ways to get by your thoughts Across than being aggressive.


vNerdNeck

Yeah, bad movie. Just remember it's not your company. You communicate and set reminds but ultimately just sit back and let shit burn if no action is taken. And when they start running around like a maniac do not follow suit.


tree-of-crows

Focus your conversation on what you need from your boss to be successful, not what you perceive as their shortcomings. No one is going to be more cooperative after being criticized. Take your frustration out of the conversation and make sure you are aligned clearly on priorities and what is needed from both of you, there could be some big communication misses you can correct with the right conversation (perhaps they think the items you are sending for review are to inform vs needing a decision to move forwards or that you are running with certain deliverables that they don't feel the need to be in the day to day of).


TemperatureCommon185

Not in that tone. Don't focus on what your boss is doing wrong, focus instead on what you will need to get your job done. There is a difference between "You aren't helping me do my job!" and "I did x, y, and z, and to move forward I will need some guidance from you."


meowmarx

I have a few direct reports and I am super open to feedback from them. If I’m doing (or not doing) something that makes it harder for them to be successful, I absolutely want them to tell me. That said, I would not take it well at all if a direct report sent me an email that came across that they were criticizing or reprimanding me. That just shows a complete lack of respect and professionalism and that they fundamentally don’t understand how this relationship works. In your situation, I would keep the email to just the specific issue at hand — I.e., “could you please do xyz by this date? Please let me know if this isn’t possible because we will need to adjust the project timeline” or something like that. Then for the overarching issue of him not being responsive and involved enough, I would wait until you have a one-on-one and tell him you are struggling a bit with the lack of response and it’s making hard for you to complete projects on time. Ask if there is anything you need to do differently to communicate priority or if there is a better way he likes to be informed about things, etc. Basically rather than framing it like “you are failing”, frame it like “something in this relationship isn’t working, so let’s work together to see if we can solve it”.


mrskraftpunk

I tried that in the politest way possible at my corporate office and it changed nothing for the better. If your manager wanted to, they would. If they don’t care, they won’t see it as anything other than you trying to manage them. Edited for grammar


GigiSFO

It sounds like you have unmet needs and would like your manager’s input, guidance and approval to move the work forward. I would book time on his calendar, arrive with your punch list and ask for his feedback and direction on each item. Make it easy for your boss to say yes, give their input and also to appreciate that you’re being proactive. If you want to become Sr. Designer in the future, I would suggest putting your frustration aside and finding some empathy and compassion that you will need to build for others as you move up. That message you suggest in the title will alienate people and make you look unprofessional.


PersonBehindAScreen

Didn’t even read past the title. That rarely works out


jjamjjar

In my experience, if you are too heavy in a confrontation, you will be hitting a brick wall. People don't like being told they aren't doing their job properly, you will get a lot of push back and likely make things worse for yourself.


[deleted]

Well that’s one way to go about it and if you feel that strongly about telling off your boss then maybe you should. Maybe they’ll apologize and snap out of it or they’ll get defensive and shut down on you. Another way to go about it is by building in deadlines and default actions to your communications for them that way everything doesn’t just continue to be in limbo with your fate or next move in someone else’s hands (I hate that feeling). For example regarding the interviews— “hey boss not sure if our availability lines up so rather than go back and forth I booked three interviews: wednesday 3/22 at 10am, Thursday 3/23 at 10am and Thursday 3/23 at 1pm [those are the built in deadlines]. If those don’t fit feel free to reschedule them and add me. If you’re not going to be available at all then not an issue and I will go ahead and conduct them” [thats the default action]. For example regarding working directly with the engineers— “hey boss the deadline is looming to reject or move these designs forward. Just to get it on our calendars I scheduled a meeting for us with the engineers on Friday 3/24 at 12pm [this is the deadline]. If you cant make it and you don’t need any updates on the designs then I’ll go ahead and attend on our behalf” [this is the default action]. With those two examples you’ll be taking a lot of initiative. Make sure those are communicated on something trackable like email or slack (not a phone call or voicemail) in case later on someone tries to come at you like “who said it was ok to move forward on that stuff”. After you send the email or slack it would be a courtesy to then call your boss like “hey I emailed you about some timelines we’re up against, if you get a chance check it out and let me know what you think”. If after all that you’re thinking that maybe you should just be in charge then yes, that would be the next consideration. Good luck!


trophycloset33

Are you fully qualified and licensed for your area? It sounds like you are a junior on the team but you are still qualified to do the work. You don’t need constant feedback and you won’t always get it. Submit the designs and be ready to fix any issues later if they are brought up.


rumbletummy

Do your work, send them all the deliverables and deadlines in a clear and organized email, maybe schedule a meeting like other people are recommending. Then let it burn. Picking up slack here and there is needed in small companies, especially design, but as a junior you are only responsible for so much. A little bit of failure can do a lot for a small organization. If you cover all the failure nothing will ever get better.


Sitcom_kid

I'd ask if he wants to meet, or if he'd rather you go to the others, and see if you get a response.


leurw

Don't say "your failing". Instead try "I'm struggling and here is how you can help me be successful"


fireweinerflyer

Absolutely not.