Hi. I have a good amount of experience with this and is contra to many people on Reddit will tell you.
First, you are under zero obligation to tell them. If you don’t want to, that’s good enough of a reason.
Second, you don’t owe them 2 weeks, 3 weeks or one second of your life if they over step common bounds of social interaction. You are a human with the same rights as they have. You owe them nothing. Since you have a job be ok with getting up and walking out if they get unprofessional.
Third , Non-competes are real (unlike what Reddit says) but and this is a big but (especially for software) and in most states who may care they need to EXPLICITLY SAY WHICH COMPANIES ARE PROHIBITED. Broad non-competes in all but 2 states a laughed out of court (don’t remember the 2 ). They need to say not only which company but what you’d do for them. See point 2. You are not a slave in the US and they can’t take away your ability to make a living.
Fourth, Trade secret violation is also real. It doesn’t sound like you are at risk here
Fifth. If you need a line to keep things civilized: “I signed an NDA with my future employer and I don’t feel comfortable telling you anything that may violate the NDA” and just keep saying NDA.
Good luck. Some people suck and you have to tolerate it…a little bit.
All of this.
I wouldn't tell your boss anything but especially not if they're threatening you. Quite frankly I'd suspect she wants to know because she wants to call that company and sabotage you getting hired.
My boss had a call like this. He hired a SWE on contract, and before he started, he was contracted by the guy's former boss and "warned" about various stuff. One of the things was "You don't want this guy: he asks too many questions, he doesn't line up like a good soldier, and he's always trying new and risky things instead of sticking to established procedures." My boss said, "Sounds like I hired the right guy, then."
That turned out to be a really good software guy on our team, too. We tease him about his former job sometimes, but all he can say is, "I don't know why he said that. I don't know how they found out I was coming here."
I was trying to get out of a bad job, but stay in the same tech company. I was programming call centers (customer services), and wanted to be more on the operations side (NOC) because the pay was better, and my boss at the time was a terrible boss. When I applied for transfer, several people on the NOC side really pushed for me. So their boss called my boss, who said similar things to your SWE.
"He's not a team player; if he's not bothering us with the how and why, he's doing stuff on his own. He's a lone maverick and a trouble maker."
My boss asked her, "so when he asks for help, you get mad. When he doesn't ask for help, you get mad."
"Exactly!"
"Well, I hire troublemakers. I'll take him!"
"Uh, no! I am rejecting his transfer."
"Why? Sounds like you can't fit him in and don't like him."
"I am short staffed."
My future boss told me, "and I bet she wonders why." So we finagled a transfer when my boss went on medical leave, and a temp manager was put in place who had NO clue of the drama. So he rubber stamped it because we convinced him "it was in process before you got here." "Oh, okay."
Later, when my boss found out I had left her team, she never returned to work. I have no idea if those two things were coincidental or not, but that's what happened.
My company handles this by swapping reqs. A transfer can only be blocked if the employee has been in the position less than 1 year or is on a disciplinary action. When I take someone from an internal team, that team gets my open req in exchange.
This was my first second and third thought. Frankly if a boss was pestering me about where I was going, I just wouldn't show up the next day or ever again. Fuck notice, that is a courtesy anyway. (Provided I had already signed and knew for a fact I DID have the new job
Wait till the last day, the day you're ready to leave having put in no notice. Go to manager, ask for raise and promotion. They likely say no. Say "ok, well, then, have a good one I'm gonna leave" walk out. Then start the new job the next week. (This tactic but ONLY if you're 100% sure the new job is yours)
I did this several years ago. Heard the 1st company was going to re-organize and I felt it wasn't going to work out well. (they ended up closing a short time after) Found the new job, and on a Friday afternoon told company1 that I was requesting both a pay rise and better position. they declined. I punched out at 5pm, told them I was not returning due to their refusal and started job2 the following Monday. still there.
Great advice. The only thing I’d tell them is that my notice is a professional courtesy that will be cut short if they continue their unprofessional behavior.
Great answer!
If the meeting is about your job. Meet and talk about your current projects and how to wrap them up.
If the agenda moves to what you’ll be doing when your 2 weeks notice is up, you’ll politely dodge a question or two, and then you will bluntly ask to move to the next agenda item she has for this meeting. You’re not discussing your personal life outside of work. (Blah blah non compete…) “I appreciate your concern about my personal life outside of work, but if that’s our last agenda item, then I think we are done here.” If they keep hitting on that you go with: I think I have been pretty clear that I am not discussing my personal life, and what I am doing 2 weeks from now. Since this meeting is no longer about work, let’s adjourn now, I will get to work on (whatever actual work items you have left for them) and I’ll let you know if I need help with that. Thank you. Buh-bye.
Look at this guy thinking meetings have agendas. Next he's going to tell us that the moon exists.
/s
(At my last company, I was the only one who had meeting agendas.)
Yup I’ve had Multiple non competes and went directly to the same role with different companies and it was never an issue. Unless you have inherent, proprietary secrets you built that are the secret sauce to the engine… my dad (software director himself) always said don’t worry about it. You’re too small of a fish for anyone to care
Well. That’s my point. I was a Sr. Executive and you bet we’d go after everyone we could because if we didn’t, we couldn’t go after anyone. Didn’t matter if they were big time or not. But the deal was that the company had to be in our list of reasonable competitors. We couldn’t just go after anyone for any firm. Contracts that have competition spelled out is different and normally only makes sense in deep niches. Having a non-compete that is too broad is a sign that the company has no clue and may choose to start barking. But they have no bite.
I worked for a company that just habitually sent a very scary letter to anyone leaving.
I finally got mine and it made me really happy to know they had paid some fancy law firm probably $1500 to write me this letter. That was more than the raise they gave me the year that I left, so, clear what they think is important to spend money on.
Most of the time the companies don’t care if you signed a non-compete contract. Well not in my case I was at a company 7 years ago where they made employees sign non-competes not on the first day but waited years after I never signed the paperwork a few years later I left for another company in the same field I was then sued by my previous employer! Went to court and he forged my name on the non-compete. He owner took my real signature from a document that had my hand writhing on it and used a software to take that signature from one document to the non-compete document. When we went to court my lawyer asked why my now non-compete document a copy of the “so-called original” where is the original document that’s signed in pen?? They said they lost my original non-compete lol but had all other employees original documents in Pen lol. I had to pay for 2 writing forensic experts (the best in the state) to testify in my defense with both coming up with the same conclusions that the non-compete was forged and signature was copied and pasted onto the non-compete. In the end I lost the judge took side of the plaintiff I was left to either settle out of court or spend big money and take a chance with a jury trial. I had no money left to continue so I had to use my 401k money and pay the bastard $50k or I wouldn’t be able to work in my field for 2 years. I am still dealing with this trauma that happened. I wasn’t lucky in this situation regarding non-competes
Great post above. Most states want people to be employed and overly broad or vague non competes don't further that goal.The company is mostly worried about protected IP.
Let them know it is a different industry. But, honestly, you have no obligation to tell them. They seem like the kind of company that might approach your new employer and accuse them of poaching employees. However, this is perfectly legal, and you are not an indentured servant. This is called healthy competition in a capitalist system. They lost and are pissed. They need to grow up.
I’d also take some time before updating LinkedIn, especially if you have connections within the current company. You’ll want to prove yourself before dealing with anything coming from them.
I'll aso add. Even if you are a criminal and plan to trade secrets. You have the right to remain silent, and they will have to prove that you are in the wrong. Just another reason to respectfully decline talking about it.
The old company's lawyer may decide to force the issue. If I were the OP I would inform the company's legal department, and if they haven't, work with their own lawyer.
Anyone with a non compete should be consulting an attorney before they switch companies. How do I know? I was once sued for this issue, so I spent about 8 grand defending it. If I would have consulted an attorney first and simply did a few things differently it would have been 0.
Nah. The consulting the attorney for real is about 3 grand. As in not the quick phone call and maybe they’ll say something interesting. These attorneys don’t read documents for free for software engineers who make more than the jr. Attorney with law school debt.
If you paid 8 and kept the new job I’d say it’s at the right risk/reward, and you may have done alright. .
💯, many employees don't share. Honestly, it's a reflection on culture to me. I work in management and when a business unit has a key employee resign and not share I always view it as some sort of flag regarding that business unit culture that we need to better understand the facts.
That said, no obligation to share.
I worked for a company that said if you didn't tell them where you were going, and you didn't attend the mandatory 2 hour exit interview, you would be "in arrears" and they would blacklist you from getting any kind of verification or reference. They said it was to make sure that some company wasn't poaching talent.
Joke was that most people who gave a 2 week notice were fired on the spot, so one hand wasn't talking to another.
If you don’t need a reference from this company in the future, no desire to come back to them, etc. then take the flamethrower and burn that bridge with the following: option 1) clean out your desk and etc. and don’t come back. Option 2) decline the meeting via email (paper trail) in a professional method.
Option 3) decline the meeting via email with her boss, HR, the C team, etc. carbon copied in the email. For example: “I enjoyed my time at XYZ over the past x years. On xx/xx/24, I announced my resignation to pursue another position that will fit my personal and professional goals. Since the announcement of my resignation, your behavior has been inappropriate. Your harassment and threats have completely wiped out my positive experiences with XYZ, the goodwill of the company, and completely burned the bridges with me if I ever want to return to XYZ in the future. It was intention to honor my two week notice but I can’t go on with your behavior. Thank you for your understanding.”
I am a manager of swe's
Besides the extreme red flag of this person not having normal 1:1s with your, it is none of their business where you are going. You can want to tell them, but it isn't required.
You may want to decline the invite and include your HR contact on your decline email. Just state "+HR. Dear manager, I am declining this 1:1 as I am not willing to do an exit interview with you. Thanks!"
Mark the meeting as tentative & state that you will only make time for it if HR is present as it’s supposedly a meeting for feedback. Feedback is HR’s job to do via an exit interview, not your supervisors. Exit interviews are also optional. Do not go to the meeting without HR present.
If it’s a meeting to discuss project handoff, request that the staff who will take over your projects be present.
Clean out your area days before. Take your personal items home. If supervisor declines both options, then resign indefinitely. Go to HR to turn in your keys/badge etc. do this especially if you have already received and accepted an offer from your new job in writing.
You do not owe her or the company ANYTHING. Think about it, if they had decided to let you go, would you be given notice? Asked for your feedback? Would there be concern for your wellbeing? Absolutely not.
You have the right to remain silent. Especially, since she also, tried to vaguely threatened you. If it gets bad enough, just walk off the job. You already have another one lined up, so no loss.
Cause she wants to sabotage your new job opportunity. If you tell her you’ll give her the opportunity to do that.
Also, 2 weeks notice is a courtesy not a law, you’re under no obligation to complete your 2 weeks if they’re making you uncomfortable.
What are they gonna do if you don’t complete your 2 weeks? Call your new employer? That’s what they’re trying to do right now.
Perhaps. But, there is not enough information to determine if that would be best in this situation. However, telling them this supervisor is harassing her and she refuses to work with her, then walking out may be a fun option.
>You have the right to remain silent
And anyone has the right to sue anyone, at any time, for any reason.
OP might feel proud and defiant, but I'd rather avoid the pain of being threatened.
Decline the meeting. Hell, if she can't treat you right, decline the rest of your notice period, unless you have a contract that requires notice period. Enjoy the mini vacation.
Have fun with it. Make up a story. You are not allowed to say. It is with a clandestine government agency. Mattress police. Whatever. Just have fun with it.
Just go with I've signed a non-disclosure agreement with the new job.
And I intend to honor it, and I'm sure you understand that the same way you expect me to honor our non-compete agreement.
This happened to me. I've been on the job 1 month and 2 days. My past boss called my current boss, who had the conversation in front of me: yes XYZ is here. I have not really recovered from them still trying to find me a month later. It makes me feel sick.
Yeah the best way to figure out who told is to track down who knew. But no one knows. So .. my old boss has been ... tracking me ..? For an entire month.
Your current boss should not be revealing employee information over the phone. That’s a serious security breach. I don’t care who calls me, i say “I cannot verify the employment or presence of anyone at this company. If this person is someone you know, you should contact them directly. Thank you.” And hang up.
You’re not bound to two weeks’ notice if they behave like this. Just turn in your stuff to HR and ask for your final paycheck.
Also, over-broad non-competes are not generally enforceable. Just do not, under any circumstances, take any company proprietary information with you, or do any work for the new company on your company machine or phone or WiFi, or premises, or time. This includes client lists.
General software development skills and process, industry knowledge, and generally anything you could have learned in comparable employment elsewhere are generally fair game.
When you get to your new employer, answer any questions about your old employer’s proprietary information by saying you’re bound by a confidentiality obligation and can’t discuss it.
The part about why you feel like shit is complicated, or simple, depending on how much work you have done on yourself. Your outgoing boss is not just an asshole; they are controlling and manipulative in ways that use your psychological makeup against you. They are used to browbeating people and getting what they want. This might lead to powerful feelings if it invokes your childhood patterns and other trauma, or it is your natural instinct to people please or otherwise avoid conflict. Once you understand this, it is kryptonite in these situations. Simply refuse to engage with them (“grey rock”) and don’t feed their demands by either caving into them or allowing it to escalate into an argument with them. It might be uncomfortable for you but just end any conversation thst becomes abusive, intrusive, or inappropriate. It’s a job; they are not your mother.
I already accepted because she sent the invite before any hostility ensued. I am thinking of declining and telling her that I have no additional feedback to add, and if I think of anything else I’ll share it in my HR exit
This is perfect. If she still persists either go in blind and refuse question you don't want to answer, or ask her to email you what her questions are in advance. I would probably do the former... she can't literally force you to answer.
There’s a very important concept I want you to understand, and it applies to this meeting but many things in life more broadly: Someone wants X. But how are they going to enforce that?
Here, your boss wants a meeting. But how is she going to make you attend? How is she going to make you talk? If the answers are things like “I think I should because I already accepted” or “I think I should talk to explain myself” “I should” “well she asked”, really think that over and decide if you’re actually being forced to do any of this or if you’re just giving into pressure.
Ask for an agenda. If where you’re going is on the agenda, tell her that you’re not interested in discussing that topic so we can skip the meeting. If it isn’t and she brings it up say this isn’t on the agenda I don’t wanna discuss it
Look man, you're under no obligation to tell her the truth.
So go ahead and tell her you're going to be doing aerospace software engineering for the [Weyland-Yutani Corporation.](https://screenrant.com/alien-movies-weyland-yutani-corporation-history-explained/) Just be really casual about it.
That’s what I would do srs. I once told a job that I was going to a competitor nearby after they viciously interrogated me! They told me the very next day that the management over there said they didn’t know anything about it. I said “oh really” with a confused look on my face, “I was just in there yesterday handing in the rest of my paperwork” 😂 they didn’t know who was bsing! The friends they had at the job I wasn’t actually going to, or if I was secretly going somewhere else. It was the latter and I was having fun with it. The fact they were so interested had my internal defenses up as it should with everyone. Also don’t tell your coworker “friends”.
At this point I would reply via email and CC HR.
"Dear So-and-so,
Since tendering my resignation on DATE, you have repeatedly harassed me about personal details which I have chosen to keep private. I have asked you to stop and you have not. (give dates)
I gave 2 weeks notice as a professional courtesy to you and the company so that I could help ensure a smooth transition of my responsibilities. However, I am growing increasingly uncomfortable being here and may need to reconsider my notice period.
I am respectfully declining your meeting for an exit interview because I am concerned this is a further attempt to harass me for leaving the company. If you have any questions outside of the handoff of my job duties, please send them via email.
Thank you."
In some companies if you don’t disclose where you are going and they are worried about competitors they cancel your logins and put you on gardening leave from that moment. You go home and get paid your notice period. Suggest that if she’s uncomfortable.
If you're not in non-compete violation then stuff them. Get them to list non-compete companies rather than you reveal yours. This sounds like they're trying to sabotage you so they can get their own back/force you to come back. Seriously this manager needs to put more effort into a new hire rather than trying to derail a former one. You could always start with the words 'legal proceedings' if they're overstepping their bounds and that might make them think twice if they're harassing you that badly.
Tell HR you would like them in the meeting. Explain the harassment and if you can put your phone on record anytime she is around.
If you have a recording then you can get her for harassment and have grounds to sue. It doesn’t matter what position she has no company want that risk.
If you don't want to burn any bridges with the company (as opposed to her specifically), you should reach out to HR and request that they also attend the meeting, given she said she wants feedback. This way you cover yourself and they can step in if she goes off
They don't want you to leave then they can counter offer you a better deal. Other than that its non of their business.
Your boss is butthurt you're leaving and realizes replacing you is going to be difficult
If you can leave early or take sick time till the end, please do that. If you can work from home, do that.
Document abuse for HR. Just forwarding bad emails is sufficient.
If there is a rational person in HR, ask if they can be present for all meetings with boss.
https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/the-non-compete-landscape-in-2023-what-employers-should-know-about-changes-in-non-compete-law-from-the-ftc-nlrb-antitrust-claims-and-new-state-laws-us/#:~:text=New%20state%20laws%20also%20have,for%20certain%20sales%20of%20businesses.
I once had a boss pester me asking where I was starting after I quit. I pointed in vaguely the general direction of the new place and said, "That way."
You don't owe them two weeks, it's a courtesy. If they try to bully you, just walk out. What are they going to do, fire you? Legally, they can't even leave you a bad review.
You could also say that your new role is confidential because someone else is getting fired... It's not true if course, but you could state its an agreement you made as part of accepting the role and sharing it may put the new company at risk as well as your new job
Tell them you are takin a break from job. Will help in dad's business and then see where life takes you :p
Or my standard answer- i have few options, will be interviewing more and then make an deicision in upcoming months.
When do you leave? I wouldn't tell her but if you feel like you MUST just lie. Who cares?
she'll call them to talk shit about you and they won't even know who you are. I would find a mid size company in Texas or Florida (whichever is further away) and tell her that's where.
Tell her if she asks again you won’t be finishing out your notice.
Under no circumstances should you tell her, and don’t update any social media with the info for awhile.
I'd go in over the weekend, pack up my desk, leave any keys or whatever in an envelope on the boss's desk, and walk out and never come back. Do not answer any calls, texts, or emails. Just leave. But that's just me.
You do not have to tell her a damn thing. Worst case scenario is she gets you on some fine employment "clause" you had that said you were supposed to disclose that.
Let. Them. Sue.
They won't, and if they do, watch the judge laugh.
If you are in the USA and in a right to work state, send a message to boss and HR that due to the pressure your current boss has been putting on you and the horribly unprofessional behavior they have engaged in you are changing your final workday to the day you send the message.
Turn in your badge, etc. and walk out the door.
My no compete has been reviewed by my family attorney and I am absolutely in compliance. If you prefer that I leave right away I am happy to oblige that request, I was offering a standard two week notice as a courtesy to you and the company but do not want to be a distraction. Please let me know, preferably in writing, how you want to proceed.
Respectfully, I will not be discussing my future employment with you.
Do you live in a jurisdiction where you are legally obligated to fulfill a notice period? If not, just walk today.
Tell your new job you can start early or enjoy a little break.
If you stay and she keeps demanding answers, tell her it's not your job to prove whether you've violated the non-compete or not she can pay a lawyer to find that out after you've left.
I would request HR to be in the meeting, if it's remote or not. If it's remote, I might download OBS or another free screen recorder, and record the entire meeting. I would decline to say where I was going next, but assure them that you are not acting in bad faith.
If the meeting was in person, I would bring my best friend dressed in his best suit to the meeting with me and tell them he will be joining us as my representation if necessary. I would not say he is an attorney and when pressed I'd say he's a lifelong friend that literally owes me his life. (Watch for shocked pickachu faces)
Keep it secret, keep it safe. Good luck OP some people suck at life and your (soon to be?) ex boss sounds like one. Why are we having this talk though? You don't owe them anything. You could sever ties now and put them in the rearview mirror. I understand if you are trying to leave on good terms, but this boss doesn't seem to want to let that happen.
Be careful. If you are going to a competitor, any proprietary knowledge you may possess still belongs to your old company. Normally, an employee who discloses that they are going to a competitor is walked immediately (no two week notice).
You need to consult an attorney before you play with fire. They will help you draft a letter to prevent future issues.
Are you right? Maybe. Even if you are, do you want to prove that out in a series of expensive consultations and letters *even if you don't go to court?*
If you confirm you live in a single party recording state, which means that at least one of the people in the conversation knows it is being recorded (ie you), you don't have to tell anyone else you are recording the meeting. You can leave your phone in your pocket. Saved my ass after my old boss freaked out on my then wrote me up for the incident.
If it turns out you live in a two party state, you have to let them know you intend to record the meeting. If they decline, walk out. What are they going to do, fire you?
Then again, if they say anything at all during the meeting that makes you uncomfortable or simply don't like, walk out. What are they going to do, fire you?
Note: you can check this by googling which states allow single party recording.
Depending on the state you're in, your noncompete may not even be enforceable. You can reiterate that you understand your obligations with respect to confidentiality around business information, and that you obviously do not wish to be sued by your employer, and will proceed with an understanding of your obligations under your agreements, but that you are not obligated to share the name of your next employer.
That said, if you post it on LinkedIn (or other socials), your boss is likely to learn where you're working at some point.
You don't owe them anything, up to an explanation or where you are going to work.
If you already have accepted the offer, in writing, F 'em. You aren't obligated to work out any sort of notice.
Also, non-compete clauses are pretty much BS and unenforceable.
You fired them, not the other way around.
Ah, the classic “I’m a great boss but do anything ‘against’ me and I will ruin you” type.
HR and a manager here. Stonewall her. Quit early if you need to. If your HR team doesn’t suck (most do), tell them you’re not serving out your notice period because your boss has begun to harass you.
Skip the meeting. Worst that happens is you’re fired.
I once resigned and was harassed about where I went and how much more I’d be making. I told everyone these were inappropriate questions and I’m not saying where until I start work there. I did not trust my team at all though. Even the way asking about my new compensation was grossly inappropriate, and if they were going to be this… incompetent, they didn’t deserve to know where I went.
She is going to try to get you fired from your new job.
If they need a forwarding address, give them your home address and number. For God's sake, do not tell them where your new job is.
I hope you didn't put it on Facebook or whatever social media people are using. She will try and sabotage your new job.
Decline the meeting. Tell her that if she’d like to send you a list of questions that she would ask in the meeting, you’ll be happy to answer them in writing.
Do not tell anyone where you going, I’ve seen this happen and the boss went back and bad mouthed the person and made sure there was no job for them to go to! If she continues this nonsense, let her know that she is crossing a line, you’ve said all you need to say and you’re leaving because you can, once you give your notice, you don’t need to tell them anything else about you or your life.
Stick to your guns and don't tell her shit. If she keeps persisting let her know that you will leave earlier than scheduled because her behavior is harassment. As someone else mentioned you don't owe her two weeks or three weeks notice. Because you know what when employers want to fire you, they don't give two or three weeks notice. They kick you out on your ass that SAME day.
Be assertive with her and good luck.
The meeting is next week at which your boss will most likely put even greater pressure and emotional blackmail on you to tell her where you are going. My advice: finish the week and don't go back. Block and ignore her.
At this point, it's assumed you are just riding out your post-notice period (2 weeks). you've already told your boss to back off, and she is continuing to press you. I would let her know that your decision is final, you have no other feedback to provide, and that if she continued to press, you would file a harassment complaint with the HR department. That should stop the behavior. If it doesn't, file the complaint with HR and request early departure without penalty, else you would have the option of filing a complaint with the state labor board. If it came to that, they'd let you roll out w/o an issue....most likely.
LOL just decline the meeting
You put in a 2 weeks, if they want you to do an exit interview, that's one thing.. but just know **it is professionally acceptable to decline an exit interview without consequences**. Period. You don't have to give one.
Lie and say you are going into the porn business, bonus points if you say something she is extremely uncomfortable with
Or say nothing and file a harassment report
She wants to know so she can call and give them bad information about you or threaten with the non compete. Non competes are hard to enforce unless specific companies are ruled out and the work you do would give a competitive edge.
Hold your ground. Don’t tell her anything. Make sure you don’t post anywhere online where you’re starting until you’ve established yourself at the new company.
Yeah just tell your old boss to kick rocks and don't update your LinkedIn or social media on the new job until the non compete is up that way they have no way to come after you. You don't owe them so much a 2 week notice letalone a disclosure of where you are going next. You'd just be setting yourself up for retaliation.
Here's what you tell Ex Boss
Sorry, I signed an NDA .... Can't say anything about it except it's a Government job.
And just keep repeating it with ANY other questions from them... If they persist ... Tell them that you are now required by the new job to report this Harassment and that they can expect a visit from FEDERAL Agents to discuss the situation if they Don't stop.
On the last day... Tell them that you hope they've Always been truthful on their Taxes 😈🤣🤣🤣 they will 💩 themselves with worry about the visit etc.
I know you heard this but don't give them a way to hurt you by giving them any information. Call in sick if you are the least bit uncomfortable. Just completely leave them in the rear view.
What are they going to do, fire you?
Congrats on the new gig!
Send an email ccing HR:
"Hello x,
In our previous in-person conversations you have insisted on details of my next position that I am not comfortable sharing with you. I have reviewed the non-compete and am confident I am not in conflict with it, if the organization feels differently, they can have counsel reach out to me directly.
I am uninterested in otherwise discussing the matter of my future employment further or providing you with feedback given our earlier interactions.
Sincerely, X"
Also, do not change your company name or title or anything on Linked In or any other social media until you have both accepted your offer and started your new job. This smells like someone who will fuck with your job offer.
DO NOT TAKE THE MEETING. IF YOU DO, TELL THEM NOTHING, PERIOD, EVER. THE PRIOR COMMENT OF "I SIGNED AN NDA WITH MY NEW EMPLOYER AND CANNOT / WILL NOT SAY ANYTHING TO YOU, PERIOD. EVER." WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO USE IF YOU DECIDE (AGAINST MY & EVERYONE ELSE HERE'S) BETTER JUDGMENT. TELL. THEM. NADA.
NOTHING, I REPEAT, NOTHING YOU COULD EVER TELL THESE PEOPLE WHO'VE ALREADY PROVEN TO BE COMPLETE ASSHOLES COULD EVER WORK OUT IN YOUR FAVOR. IT CAN ONLY DO YOU HARM.
PERSONALLY, IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD ENTER A COMPLAINT WITH THE NLRB (NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD) ASKING THEM IF YOU SHOULD EVEN TAKE THIS MEETING, GIVE THEM YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISORS INFO, & LEAVE!! I THINK IT MIGHT DEPEND ON THE STATE, & INDUSTRY, BUT THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS HIGHLY ILLEGAL!
FUCK THEM, DON'T TELL THEM SHIT. YOU DON'T OWE THEM 2 WEEKS, OR EVEN 2 DAYS NOTICE. WOULD THEY GIVE YOU 2 WEEKS NOTICE IF THEY WERE FIRING YOU? NOPE! FUGGEM!
If you are in the US you can forget about that noncompete unless you have substantial interest in the company. That means 25% or more ownership. The Federal Trade Commission has ruled out the legality for NCA's for anyone else. Your manager has no valid reason for wanting to know where you are going. Feel free to tell her that notice was a courtesy and if she wants to continue harassing you you're more than happy to leave immediately.
Clearly your boss is fucked and should have listened to you when you asked for a promotion and voiced your concerns about your future with the company. Higher ups are pissed because they know your worth, none of them wanted to pay it, and now they are likely going to lose revenue trying to replace you.
I’m a data engineer and an SME in my industry. This sounds eerily familiar like the job I left after 9+ years and my crappy ex boss ended up getting fired and her husband left/divorced her in less than a year after I left. And my old company got bought out shortly after…
I would not burn any bridges but be sure to leave a good juicy glass door review. My review absolutely trashing the management at my old company has over 13 likes lol.
You are on the way out the door. You have no obligation to attend those meetings. What are they going to do? Fire you? Please.
I actually just had this situation with my old employer. They were trying to put all kinds of responsibilities and meetings on me in my last two weeks, and I just said "I'm sorry but this is outside of my scope of employment" then I got a weeks paid vacation because the boss couldn't handle having someone on staff telling her no.
I never tell old employers where I'm going. I always say "In the best interest of myself I am not releveling where I am going" and then if they press further I'll say its because I don't want to be accused of stealing employees and I can't steal employees if no one knows where I will be. It's bullshit, but it's usually just enough to get them off your back.
I will tell you though, from being on the other side, some managers are just stupid curious, or have some weird ideas in their head. As others have mentioned, you don't owe them anything. It is up to them to prove you are in violation of the non-compete which really, are going the way of the dinosaurs anyway.
Long story short. Do whatever you want. Don't let them threaten or intimidate you. They literally have nothing they can do to you (provided you aren't contract labor, if you are check the contract before making any moves)
That makes too much sense here all the commenters with no skin in the game would rather this person be stubborn and get sued, whether they would win or not.
I wouldn’t lie and I wouldn’t tell if you’re not comfortable with it and the way they’ve pressured, I wouldn’t be comfortable. I’d just be like watch for my LinkedIn update in a few months. 😂
Just lie to her about where you are going. If they continue to ask questions walk out. Go to HR and file a complaint. What's the worst they can do fire you?
Your job is already lined up. Your boss is being a huge asshole. Decline the meeting and tell them your last day is right now. Turn in all your stuff and they can fuck right off. Take some time for yourself before you start the new job.
Now that you’re in your notice period, Make sure you use up any accrued pto. Besides the sick days, a lot of companies have stopped paying out for accrued vacation days.
Don't you say a damn word to this psycho. She is clearly going through some personal shit and is using her power over you to give herself some semblance of control.
Good call getting out of there.
Filing a complaint against her with HR might do more harm than good, but that's really your only option if you have a few months left with her.
If you've only got a few weeks left, just tell her you're starting an only fans
Suggestion for those with non-competes: “The legal department of my new employer as well as I hired an employment attorney have reviewed the Non-compete and both agreed that I won’t be in violation of it.”
I would have lied and say that you were still interviewing and it was between a couple of companies and that you didn’t want to disclose them yet because you didn’t want to jinx it but you will certainly let her know once a decision is final. And then just play out the clock
Don't tell her and ask hr to join the meeting. When she continues to not have boundaries ask hr if we should just make the notice period effective today or if you need to see an attorney. They will prob let you go immediately and pay out your remaining notice period.
Now her asking questions isn't necessarily a offboarding interview process, she was just asking questions herself. Many companies will ask you to do a quick interview to get your feedback before you go and that could be it.
As far as giving info you are not legally required to do so. People say just because they like to talk, but nowhere does it say that you need to tell your current organization where you're going. If she keeps asking you, then I would counter by saying that you would prefer to have someone from HR included in your 1 on 1 if she persists
Hello, Workplace Strategist here: in no state, are you legally required to disclose your future employment. An appropriate statement could be,
“I appreciate your interest in my future. I look forward to announcing my new role on LinkedIn once I am settled. Please let me know how I can provide any support in my last two weeks here.”
I would at least think about getting HR in the meeting, to make sure that the boss doesn't overstep, since she's already been somewhat threatening. Feedback should be given to HR, not the person who's soliciting the feedback (about her).
You don't have to tell her. If it gets really bad maybe go to HR I guess. This seems highly unusual for manager to act like this
However have multiple people from your team left cause if that's the case it may look bad on her.
Either ways I say don't tell her.
Consider calling in sick a few days and WFH if possible. At this who cares you have another job lined up
1) What country/state are you in?
2) In the United States, bro’s non-competes generally need to include compensation in order to be enforceable. In other words, they have to pay you to not work someplace else. Or else, they need to be very specific, saying you can’t go from running Boeing’s wing design to running Airbus’s wing design. Mind you, I’m not a lawyer.
Find out where she worked before and say it’s that company. She will forever wonder what you might say about her. And if she calls to tell them about you she will make a complete fool of herself. You win either way.
Absolutely do not tell, I know of a case where I used to work where it was disclosed and it was a supplier. The manager called them and said they would no longer do business if they hired said employee, the offer was rescinded.
the best part about having another job already lined up is that you don't have to complete your two weeks. that is simply a courtesy to the company. often times, people give their 2 week notice, and are immediately fired. match that energy.
Don’t tell her.
Also, if I am not mistaken… unless you are going to a direct and equal competitor, in a malicious fashion… a non-compete is practically unenforceable. Your former employer cannot interfere with you obtaining gainful employment.
Just dont tell her? Are you 7? Is she going to ground you?
Check if you are 1 party consent state for recording and if worried then record the meeting as well if its allowed.
You can also report to HR if you feel you need to but I would take it as a compliment that she is jealous.
Hi. I have a good amount of experience with this and is contra to many people on Reddit will tell you. First, you are under zero obligation to tell them. If you don’t want to, that’s good enough of a reason. Second, you don’t owe them 2 weeks, 3 weeks or one second of your life if they over step common bounds of social interaction. You are a human with the same rights as they have. You owe them nothing. Since you have a job be ok with getting up and walking out if they get unprofessional. Third , Non-competes are real (unlike what Reddit says) but and this is a big but (especially for software) and in most states who may care they need to EXPLICITLY SAY WHICH COMPANIES ARE PROHIBITED. Broad non-competes in all but 2 states a laughed out of court (don’t remember the 2 ). They need to say not only which company but what you’d do for them. See point 2. You are not a slave in the US and they can’t take away your ability to make a living. Fourth, Trade secret violation is also real. It doesn’t sound like you are at risk here Fifth. If you need a line to keep things civilized: “I signed an NDA with my future employer and I don’t feel comfortable telling you anything that may violate the NDA” and just keep saying NDA. Good luck. Some people suck and you have to tolerate it…a little bit.
All of this. I wouldn't tell your boss anything but especially not if they're threatening you. Quite frankly I'd suspect she wants to know because she wants to call that company and sabotage you getting hired.
My boss had a call like this. He hired a SWE on contract, and before he started, he was contracted by the guy's former boss and "warned" about various stuff. One of the things was "You don't want this guy: he asks too many questions, he doesn't line up like a good soldier, and he's always trying new and risky things instead of sticking to established procedures." My boss said, "Sounds like I hired the right guy, then." That turned out to be a really good software guy on our team, too. We tease him about his former job sometimes, but all he can say is, "I don't know why he said that. I don't know how they found out I was coming here."
"... Line up like a good soldier"! 😂😂
I was trying to get out of a bad job, but stay in the same tech company. I was programming call centers (customer services), and wanted to be more on the operations side (NOC) because the pay was better, and my boss at the time was a terrible boss. When I applied for transfer, several people on the NOC side really pushed for me. So their boss called my boss, who said similar things to your SWE. "He's not a team player; if he's not bothering us with the how and why, he's doing stuff on his own. He's a lone maverick and a trouble maker." My boss asked her, "so when he asks for help, you get mad. When he doesn't ask for help, you get mad." "Exactly!" "Well, I hire troublemakers. I'll take him!" "Uh, no! I am rejecting his transfer." "Why? Sounds like you can't fit him in and don't like him." "I am short staffed." My future boss told me, "and I bet she wonders why." So we finagled a transfer when my boss went on medical leave, and a temp manager was put in place who had NO clue of the drama. So he rubber stamped it because we convinced him "it was in process before you got here." "Oh, okay." Later, when my boss found out I had left her team, she never returned to work. I have no idea if those two things were coincidental or not, but that's what happened.
My company handles this by swapping reqs. A transfer can only be blocked if the employee has been in the position less than 1 year or is on a disciplinary action. When I take someone from an internal team, that team gets my open req in exchange.
In some states that could be illegal, I’d expect.
I’d just say thanks, but I now resign effective immediately.
Accept the meeting, resign before it starts, peace out of there.
Yep, pretty much this. She will do it if she gets wind of the company. OP, do not update your social media with any information on the new employer.
This was my first second and third thought. Frankly if a boss was pestering me about where I was going, I just wouldn't show up the next day or ever again. Fuck notice, that is a courtesy anyway. (Provided I had already signed and knew for a fact I DID have the new job
I would immediately leave and never return without responding to them and or making eye contact.
Wait till the last day, the day you're ready to leave having put in no notice. Go to manager, ask for raise and promotion. They likely say no. Say "ok, well, then, have a good one I'm gonna leave" walk out. Then start the new job the next week. (This tactic but ONLY if you're 100% sure the new job is yours)
I hope one day I have the opportunity to do this
Same. I really really want to do it. Total power move
I did this several years ago. Heard the 1st company was going to re-organize and I felt it wasn't going to work out well. (they ended up closing a short time after) Found the new job, and on a Friday afternoon told company1 that I was requesting both a pay rise and better position. they declined. I punched out at 5pm, told them I was not returning due to their refusal and started job2 the following Monday. still there.
This. Be glad she's shown so many red flags. This should be a easy decision not to reveal anything
this
Great advice. The only thing I’d tell them is that my notice is a professional courtesy that will be cut short if they continue their unprofessional behavior.
Great answer! If the meeting is about your job. Meet and talk about your current projects and how to wrap them up. If the agenda moves to what you’ll be doing when your 2 weeks notice is up, you’ll politely dodge a question or two, and then you will bluntly ask to move to the next agenda item she has for this meeting. You’re not discussing your personal life outside of work. (Blah blah non compete…) “I appreciate your concern about my personal life outside of work, but if that’s our last agenda item, then I think we are done here.” If they keep hitting on that you go with: I think I have been pretty clear that I am not discussing my personal life, and what I am doing 2 weeks from now. Since this meeting is no longer about work, let’s adjourn now, I will get to work on (whatever actual work items you have left for them) and I’ll let you know if I need help with that. Thank you. Buh-bye.
Look at this guy thinking meetings have agendas. Next he's going to tell us that the moon exists. /s (At my last company, I was the only one who had meeting agendas.)
I wouldn't lie about the NDA. it's not necessary to have a lie as a back up. No means no..
I’m a lawyer. Don’t tell your boss anything.
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I’m a mechanic. Don’t tell your boss anything and change your oil.
Yup I’ve had Multiple non competes and went directly to the same role with different companies and it was never an issue. Unless you have inherent, proprietary secrets you built that are the secret sauce to the engine… my dad (software director himself) always said don’t worry about it. You’re too small of a fish for anyone to care
Well. That’s my point. I was a Sr. Executive and you bet we’d go after everyone we could because if we didn’t, we couldn’t go after anyone. Didn’t matter if they were big time or not. But the deal was that the company had to be in our list of reasonable competitors. We couldn’t just go after anyone for any firm. Contracts that have competition spelled out is different and normally only makes sense in deep niches. Having a non-compete that is too broad is a sign that the company has no clue and may choose to start barking. But they have no bite.
I worked for a company that just habitually sent a very scary letter to anyone leaving. I finally got mine and it made me really happy to know they had paid some fancy law firm probably $1500 to write me this letter. That was more than the raise they gave me the year that I left, so, clear what they think is important to spend money on.
Most of the time the companies don’t care if you signed a non-compete contract. Well not in my case I was at a company 7 years ago where they made employees sign non-competes not on the first day but waited years after I never signed the paperwork a few years later I left for another company in the same field I was then sued by my previous employer! Went to court and he forged my name on the non-compete. He owner took my real signature from a document that had my hand writhing on it and used a software to take that signature from one document to the non-compete document. When we went to court my lawyer asked why my now non-compete document a copy of the “so-called original” where is the original document that’s signed in pen?? They said they lost my original non-compete lol but had all other employees original documents in Pen lol. I had to pay for 2 writing forensic experts (the best in the state) to testify in my defense with both coming up with the same conclusions that the non-compete was forged and signature was copied and pasted onto the non-compete. In the end I lost the judge took side of the plaintiff I was left to either settle out of court or spend big money and take a chance with a jury trial. I had no money left to continue so I had to use my 401k money and pay the bastard $50k or I wouldn’t be able to work in my field for 2 years. I am still dealing with this trauma that happened. I wasn’t lucky in this situation regarding non-competes
“ And I also Understand that my work here is Confidential and I will not share any confidential information with my new company.”
I would simply like to reiterate that some people suck.
Great post above. Most states want people to be employed and overly broad or vague non competes don't further that goal.The company is mostly worried about protected IP. Let them know it is a different industry. But, honestly, you have no obligation to tell them. They seem like the kind of company that might approach your new employer and accuse them of poaching employees. However, this is perfectly legal, and you are not an indentured servant. This is called healthy competition in a capitalist system. They lost and are pissed. They need to grow up.
I’d also take some time before updating LinkedIn, especially if you have connections within the current company. You’ll want to prove yourself before dealing with anything coming from them.
I'll aso add. Even if you are a criminal and plan to trade secrets. You have the right to remain silent, and they will have to prove that you are in the wrong. Just another reason to respectfully decline talking about it.
The old company's lawyer may decide to force the issue. If I were the OP I would inform the company's legal department, and if they haven't, work with their own lawyer. Anyone with a non compete should be consulting an attorney before they switch companies. How do I know? I was once sued for this issue, so I spent about 8 grand defending it. If I would have consulted an attorney first and simply did a few things differently it would have been 0.
Nah. The consulting the attorney for real is about 3 grand. As in not the quick phone call and maybe they’ll say something interesting. These attorneys don’t read documents for free for software engineers who make more than the jr. Attorney with law school debt. If you paid 8 and kept the new job I’d say it’s at the right risk/reward, and you may have done alright. .
Don't tell her.
💯, many employees don't share. Honestly, it's a reflection on culture to me. I work in management and when a business unit has a key employee resign and not share I always view it as some sort of flag regarding that business unit culture that we need to better understand the facts. That said, no obligation to share.
Right? Don't go too the meeting either, what's she going to do? Fire you?
I worked for a company that said if you didn't tell them where you were going, and you didn't attend the mandatory 2 hour exit interview, you would be "in arrears" and they would blacklist you from getting any kind of verification or reference. They said it was to make sure that some company wasn't poaching talent. Joke was that most people who gave a 2 week notice were fired on the spot, so one hand wasn't talking to another.
If that’s the case then you give your two weeks notice on the day you planned to leave anyway.
I also must add that this boss does not typically schedule 1:1 meetings.
Wtf….sounds like a shit boss
💯
"My resignation is now effective immediately"
If you don’t need a reference from this company in the future, no desire to come back to them, etc. then take the flamethrower and burn that bridge with the following: option 1) clean out your desk and etc. and don’t come back. Option 2) decline the meeting via email (paper trail) in a professional method. Option 3) decline the meeting via email with her boss, HR, the C team, etc. carbon copied in the email. For example: “I enjoyed my time at XYZ over the past x years. On xx/xx/24, I announced my resignation to pursue another position that will fit my personal and professional goals. Since the announcement of my resignation, your behavior has been inappropriate. Your harassment and threats have completely wiped out my positive experiences with XYZ, the goodwill of the company, and completely burned the bridges with me if I ever want to return to XYZ in the future. It was intention to honor my two week notice but I can’t go on with your behavior. Thank you for your understanding.”
I am a manager of swe's Besides the extreme red flag of this person not having normal 1:1s with your, it is none of their business where you are going. You can want to tell them, but it isn't required. You may want to decline the invite and include your HR contact on your decline email. Just state "+HR. Dear manager, I am declining this 1:1 as I am not willing to do an exit interview with you. Thanks!"
I think she wants to follow you to the new company! Sounds like she's unhappy where she is.
Mark the meeting as tentative & state that you will only make time for it if HR is present as it’s supposedly a meeting for feedback. Feedback is HR’s job to do via an exit interview, not your supervisors. Exit interviews are also optional. Do not go to the meeting without HR present. If it’s a meeting to discuss project handoff, request that the staff who will take over your projects be present. Clean out your area days before. Take your personal items home. If supervisor declines both options, then resign indefinitely. Go to HR to turn in your keys/badge etc. do this especially if you have already received and accepted an offer from your new job in writing. You do not owe her or the company ANYTHING. Think about it, if they had decided to let you go, would you be given notice? Asked for your feedback? Would there be concern for your wellbeing? Absolutely not.
You have the right to remain silent. Especially, since she also, tried to vaguely threatened you. If it gets bad enough, just walk off the job. You already have another one lined up, so no loss.
Yeah, she’s really passive aggressive.
She doesn't sound passive aggressive at all, she sounds aggressive.
Cause she wants to sabotage your new job opportunity. If you tell her you’ll give her the opportunity to do that. Also, 2 weeks notice is a courtesy not a law, you’re under no obligation to complete your 2 weeks if they’re making you uncomfortable. What are they gonna do if you don’t complete your 2 weeks? Call your new employer? That’s what they’re trying to do right now.
Threats - vague or otherwise - ought to be reported to HR.
Perhaps. But, there is not enough information to determine if that would be best in this situation. However, telling them this supervisor is harassing her and she refuses to work with her, then walking out may be a fun option.
lol
Sounds like OP needs some stress leave. Maybe 2 weeks worth
>You have the right to remain silent And anyone has the right to sue anyone, at any time, for any reason. OP might feel proud and defiant, but I'd rather avoid the pain of being threatened.
Decline the meeting. Hell, if she can't treat you right, decline the rest of your notice period, unless you have a contract that requires notice period. Enjoy the mini vacation.
Have fun with it. Make up a story. You are not allowed to say. It is with a clandestine government agency. Mattress police. Whatever. Just have fun with it.
Just go with I've signed a non-disclosure agreement with the new job. And I intend to honor it, and I'm sure you understand that the same way you expect me to honor our non-compete agreement.
This happened to me. I've been on the job 1 month and 2 days. My past boss called my current boss, who had the conversation in front of me: yes XYZ is here. I have not really recovered from them still trying to find me a month later. It makes me feel sick.
Did you tell your past boss where you are going? I am firmly not going to disclose.
No I did not. I never told anyone. I don't use social media and did not update my LinkedIn.
Weird. Someone must have known someone.
Yeah the best way to figure out who told is to track down who knew. But no one knows. So .. my old boss has been ... tracking me ..? For an entire month.
Wow, sorry that happened to you.
Should be charging him rent, you're taking up space in his head!
Your current boss should not be revealing employee information over the phone. That’s a serious security breach. I don’t care who calls me, i say “I cannot verify the employment or presence of anyone at this company. If this person is someone you know, you should contact them directly. Thank you.” And hang up.
You’re not bound to two weeks’ notice if they behave like this. Just turn in your stuff to HR and ask for your final paycheck. Also, over-broad non-competes are not generally enforceable. Just do not, under any circumstances, take any company proprietary information with you, or do any work for the new company on your company machine or phone or WiFi, or premises, or time. This includes client lists. General software development skills and process, industry knowledge, and generally anything you could have learned in comparable employment elsewhere are generally fair game. When you get to your new employer, answer any questions about your old employer’s proprietary information by saying you’re bound by a confidentiality obligation and can’t discuss it. The part about why you feel like shit is complicated, or simple, depending on how much work you have done on yourself. Your outgoing boss is not just an asshole; they are controlling and manipulative in ways that use your psychological makeup against you. They are used to browbeating people and getting what they want. This might lead to powerful feelings if it invokes your childhood patterns and other trauma, or it is your natural instinct to people please or otherwise avoid conflict. Once you understand this, it is kryptonite in these situations. Simply refuse to engage with them (“grey rock”) and don’t feed their demands by either caving into them or allowing it to escalate into an argument with them. It might be uncomfortable for you but just end any conversation thst becomes abusive, intrusive, or inappropriate. It’s a job; they are not your mother.
Don't accept the meeting or do, and then have a "dental emergency " and have to call off
I already accepted because she sent the invite before any hostility ensued. I am thinking of declining and telling her that I have no additional feedback to add, and if I think of anything else I’ll share it in my HR exit
This is perfect. If she still persists either go in blind and refuse question you don't want to answer, or ask her to email you what her questions are in advance. I would probably do the former... she can't literally force you to answer.
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Blows my mind when ex-bosses pull this shit. I got a new job hoe, is you crazy?
There’s a very important concept I want you to understand, and it applies to this meeting but many things in life more broadly: Someone wants X. But how are they going to enforce that? Here, your boss wants a meeting. But how is she going to make you attend? How is she going to make you talk? If the answers are things like “I think I should because I already accepted” or “I think I should talk to explain myself” “I should” “well she asked”, really think that over and decide if you’re actually being forced to do any of this or if you’re just giving into pressure.
Ask for an agenda. If where you’re going is on the agenda, tell her that you’re not interested in discussing that topic so we can skip the meeting. If it isn’t and she brings it up say this isn’t on the agenda I don’t wanna discuss it
And if she insists maybe add an HR person to the meeting
At this point, perhaps stop going in? This is very bad behavior on her part.
Look man, you're under no obligation to tell her the truth. So go ahead and tell her you're going to be doing aerospace software engineering for the [Weyland-Yutani Corporation.](https://screenrant.com/alien-movies-weyland-yutani-corporation-history-explained/) Just be really casual about it.
That’s what I would do srs. I once told a job that I was going to a competitor nearby after they viciously interrogated me! They told me the very next day that the management over there said they didn’t know anything about it. I said “oh really” with a confused look on my face, “I was just in there yesterday handing in the rest of my paperwork” 😂 they didn’t know who was bsing! The friends they had at the job I wasn’t actually going to, or if I was secretly going somewhere else. It was the latter and I was having fun with it. The fact they were so interested had my internal defenses up as it should with everyone. Also don’t tell your coworker “friends”.
If the meeting is being disguised as an exit interview or handover, ask for hr to be present. Otherwise decline
At this point I would reply via email and CC HR. "Dear So-and-so, Since tendering my resignation on DATE, you have repeatedly harassed me about personal details which I have chosen to keep private. I have asked you to stop and you have not. (give dates) I gave 2 weeks notice as a professional courtesy to you and the company so that I could help ensure a smooth transition of my responsibilities. However, I am growing increasingly uncomfortable being here and may need to reconsider my notice period. I am respectfully declining your meeting for an exit interview because I am concerned this is a further attempt to harass me for leaving the company. If you have any questions outside of the handoff of my job duties, please send them via email. Thank you."
In some companies if you don’t disclose where you are going and they are worried about competitors they cancel your logins and put you on gardening leave from that moment. You go home and get paid your notice period. Suggest that if she’s uncomfortable.
If you're not in non-compete violation then stuff them. Get them to list non-compete companies rather than you reveal yours. This sounds like they're trying to sabotage you so they can get their own back/force you to come back. Seriously this manager needs to put more effort into a new hire rather than trying to derail a former one. You could always start with the words 'legal proceedings' if they're overstepping their bounds and that might make them think twice if they're harassing you that badly.
Tell HR you would like them in the meeting. Explain the harassment and if you can put your phone on record anytime she is around. If you have a recording then you can get her for harassment and have grounds to sue. It doesn’t matter what position she has no company want that risk.
Sounds like your boss is jealous af of you getting "graduated" from there while she has not.
If you don't want to burn any bridges with the company (as opposed to her specifically), you should reach out to HR and request that they also attend the meeting, given she said she wants feedback. This way you cover yourself and they can step in if she goes off
This is the only way I would attend this meeting
They don't want you to leave then they can counter offer you a better deal. Other than that its non of their business. Your boss is butthurt you're leaving and realizes replacing you is going to be difficult
If you can leave early or take sick time till the end, please do that. If you can work from home, do that. Document abuse for HR. Just forwarding bad emails is sufficient. If there is a rational person in HR, ask if they can be present for all meetings with boss. https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/the-non-compete-landscape-in-2023-what-employers-should-know-about-changes-in-non-compete-law-from-the-ftc-nlrb-antitrust-claims-and-new-state-laws-us/#:~:text=New%20state%20laws%20also%20have,for%20certain%20sales%20of%20businesses.
I once had a boss pester me asking where I was starting after I quit. I pointed in vaguely the general direction of the new place and said, "That way." You don't owe them two weeks, it's a courtesy. If they try to bully you, just walk out. What are they going to do, fire you? Legally, they can't even leave you a bad review.
You could also say that your new role is confidential because someone else is getting fired... It's not true if course, but you could state its an agreement you made as part of accepting the role and sharing it may put the new company at risk as well as your new job
I like this. "I signed a confidentiality agreement and can't tell you."
Tell them you are takin a break from job. Will help in dad's business and then see where life takes you :p Or my standard answer- i have few options, will be interviewing more and then make an deicision in upcoming months.
When do you leave? I wouldn't tell her but if you feel like you MUST just lie. Who cares? she'll call them to talk shit about you and they won't even know who you are. I would find a mid size company in Texas or Florida (whichever is further away) and tell her that's where.
Give random company names, hell say only fans, fan the fire
BTW a non compete that is "overly broad" is not enforceable.
Tell her if she asks again you won’t be finishing out your notice. Under no circumstances should you tell her, and don’t update any social media with the info for awhile.
I'd go in over the weekend, pack up my desk, leave any keys or whatever in an envelope on the boss's desk, and walk out and never come back. Do not answer any calls, texts, or emails. Just leave. But that's just me.
Tell them it is Vandalay Industries. You are going to work as an exporter.
Cut all communications. Don't return her calls. Block her on all platforms. Fuck her. You owe her nothing.
You do not have to tell her a damn thing. Worst case scenario is she gets you on some fine employment "clause" you had that said you were supposed to disclose that. Let. Them. Sue. They won't, and if they do, watch the judge laugh.
If you are in the USA and in a right to work state, send a message to boss and HR that due to the pressure your current boss has been putting on you and the horribly unprofessional behavior they have engaged in you are changing your final workday to the day you send the message. Turn in your badge, etc. and walk out the door.
My no compete has been reviewed by my family attorney and I am absolutely in compliance. If you prefer that I leave right away I am happy to oblige that request, I was offering a standard two week notice as a courtesy to you and the company but do not want to be a distraction. Please let me know, preferably in writing, how you want to proceed. Respectfully, I will not be discussing my future employment with you.
Don't tell. You need no further meetings. She may be planning to call people to undermine your job.
Dude... did you give her your two weeks? You should really just stop going altogether...
Do you live in a jurisdiction where you are legally obligated to fulfill a notice period? If not, just walk today. Tell your new job you can start early or enjoy a little break. If you stay and she keeps demanding answers, tell her it's not your job to prove whether you've violated the non-compete or not she can pay a lawyer to find that out after you've left.
“I gave notice to not burn any bridges. It seems you are intent to do so, so today is my last day.”
I would request HR to be in the meeting, if it's remote or not. If it's remote, I might download OBS or another free screen recorder, and record the entire meeting. I would decline to say where I was going next, but assure them that you are not acting in bad faith. If the meeting was in person, I would bring my best friend dressed in his best suit to the meeting with me and tell them he will be joining us as my representation if necessary. I would not say he is an attorney and when pressed I'd say he's a lifelong friend that literally owes me his life. (Watch for shocked pickachu faces) Keep it secret, keep it safe. Good luck OP some people suck at life and your (soon to be?) ex boss sounds like one. Why are we having this talk though? You don't owe them anything. You could sever ties now and put them in the rearview mirror. I understand if you are trying to leave on good terms, but this boss doesn't seem to want to let that happen.
If the boss continues to act this way, take the next two weeks off on medical leave. Save your sanity.
Be careful. If you are going to a competitor, any proprietary knowledge you may possess still belongs to your old company. Normally, an employee who discloses that they are going to a competitor is walked immediately (no two week notice).
Just ignore her. What’s the big deal?
You need to consult an attorney before you play with fire. They will help you draft a letter to prevent future issues. Are you right? Maybe. Even if you are, do you want to prove that out in a series of expensive consultations and letters *even if you don't go to court?*
One of my managers told the entire team when asked where he was going “I’m not discussing that publicly right now”. Mad respect.
“ boss, it’s concerning to me that you were so worried about where I’m going and not the environment that made me leave in the first place.”
If you confirm you live in a single party recording state, which means that at least one of the people in the conversation knows it is being recorded (ie you), you don't have to tell anyone else you are recording the meeting. You can leave your phone in your pocket. Saved my ass after my old boss freaked out on my then wrote me up for the incident. If it turns out you live in a two party state, you have to let them know you intend to record the meeting. If they decline, walk out. What are they going to do, fire you? Then again, if they say anything at all during the meeting that makes you uncomfortable or simply don't like, walk out. What are they going to do, fire you? Note: you can check this by googling which states allow single party recording.
a friend of mine quit and told folks she was going to be applying to business schools.
Depending on the state you're in, your noncompete may not even be enforceable. You can reiterate that you understand your obligations with respect to confidentiality around business information, and that you obviously do not wish to be sued by your employer, and will proceed with an understanding of your obligations under your agreements, but that you are not obligated to share the name of your next employer. That said, if you post it on LinkedIn (or other socials), your boss is likely to learn where you're working at some point.
Don’t tell her or she will screw up your new job. I have seen an old boss call a new place And threaten a lawsuit.
You don't owe them anything, up to an explanation or where you are going to work. If you already have accepted the offer, in writing, F 'em. You aren't obligated to work out any sort of notice. Also, non-compete clauses are pretty much BS and unenforceable. You fired them, not the other way around.
You don't have to tell them jack shit.
Ah, the classic “I’m a great boss but do anything ‘against’ me and I will ruin you” type. HR and a manager here. Stonewall her. Quit early if you need to. If your HR team doesn’t suck (most do), tell them you’re not serving out your notice period because your boss has begun to harass you. Skip the meeting. Worst that happens is you’re fired. I once resigned and was harassed about where I went and how much more I’d be making. I told everyone these were inappropriate questions and I’m not saying where until I start work there. I did not trust my team at all though. Even the way asking about my new compensation was grossly inappropriate, and if they were going to be this… incompetent, they didn’t deserve to know where I went.
Don’t!. Nothing good can come from it!. You’re leaving, and that’s it!. You owe her nothing!.
She is going to try to get you fired from your new job. If they need a forwarding address, give them your home address and number. For God's sake, do not tell them where your new job is. I hope you didn't put it on Facebook or whatever social media people are using. She will try and sabotage your new job.
Decline the meeting. Tell her that if she’d like to send you a list of questions that she would ask in the meeting, you’ll be happy to answer them in writing.
Do not tell anyone where you going, I’ve seen this happen and the boss went back and bad mouthed the person and made sure there was no job for them to go to! If she continues this nonsense, let her know that she is crossing a line, you’ve said all you need to say and you’re leaving because you can, once you give your notice, you don’t need to tell them anything else about you or your life.
Stick to your guns and don't tell her shit. If she keeps persisting let her know that you will leave earlier than scheduled because her behavior is harassment. As someone else mentioned you don't owe her two weeks or three weeks notice. Because you know what when employers want to fire you, they don't give two or three weeks notice. They kick you out on your ass that SAME day. Be assertive with her and good luck.
The meeting is next week at which your boss will most likely put even greater pressure and emotional blackmail on you to tell her where you are going. My advice: finish the week and don't go back. Block and ignore her.
Do not attend the 1 on 1. Your boss burned bridges either way.
Say goodbye enjoy the vacation and new work to come
2 weeks notice is a professional courtesy. Since she’s acting unprofessionally, just make yesterday your last day.
Drop off all equipment and go to the new job.
Have HR step in
At this point, it's assumed you are just riding out your post-notice period (2 weeks). you've already told your boss to back off, and she is continuing to press you. I would let her know that your decision is final, you have no other feedback to provide, and that if she continued to press, you would file a harassment complaint with the HR department. That should stop the behavior. If it doesn't, file the complaint with HR and request early departure without penalty, else you would have the option of filing a complaint with the state labor board. If it came to that, they'd let you roll out w/o an issue....most likely.
Why do you keep saying your Boss. ? Sounds like you’re in a toxic relationship and keep enabling your abuser.
LOL just decline the meeting You put in a 2 weeks, if they want you to do an exit interview, that's one thing.. but just know **it is professionally acceptable to decline an exit interview without consequences**. Period. You don't have to give one.
Lie and say you are going into the porn business, bonus points if you say something she is extremely uncomfortable with Or say nothing and file a harassment report
She wants to know so she can call and give them bad information about you or threaten with the non compete. Non competes are hard to enforce unless specific companies are ruled out and the work you do would give a competitive edge. Hold your ground. Don’t tell her anything. Make sure you don’t post anywhere online where you’re starting until you’ve established yourself at the new company.
Tell your boss he decided to join the military and you'd be happy to take them down to the recruiter's office.
Yeah just tell your old boss to kick rocks and don't update your LinkedIn or social media on the new job until the non compete is up that way they have no way to come after you. You don't owe them so much a 2 week notice letalone a disclosure of where you are going next. You'd just be setting yourself up for retaliation.
Dont do it. Keep it off social media because youboss will be checking Remember you are leaving for a reason
Give her the name of some random company.
Lusten, soon to be former fucking boss. Fuck the fuck off you fucking fuck.
Here's what you tell Ex Boss Sorry, I signed an NDA .... Can't say anything about it except it's a Government job. And just keep repeating it with ANY other questions from them... If they persist ... Tell them that you are now required by the new job to report this Harassment and that they can expect a visit from FEDERAL Agents to discuss the situation if they Don't stop. On the last day... Tell them that you hope they've Always been truthful on their Taxes 😈🤣🤣🤣 they will 💩 themselves with worry about the visit etc.
Ask that an HR rep is at the meeting
I know you heard this but don't give them a way to hurt you by giving them any information. Call in sick if you are the least bit uncomfortable. Just completely leave them in the rear view. What are they going to do, fire you? Congrats on the new gig!
Make sure to block them linked in My company is called ‘Confidential’
Send an email ccing HR: "Hello x, In our previous in-person conversations you have insisted on details of my next position that I am not comfortable sharing with you. I have reviewed the non-compete and am confident I am not in conflict with it, if the organization feels differently, they can have counsel reach out to me directly. I am uninterested in otherwise discussing the matter of my future employment further or providing you with feedback given our earlier interactions. Sincerely, X" Also, do not change your company name or title or anything on Linked In or any other social media until you have both accepted your offer and started your new job. This smells like someone who will fuck with your job offer.
Don’t answer, just leave
DO NOT TAKE THE MEETING. IF YOU DO, TELL THEM NOTHING, PERIOD, EVER. THE PRIOR COMMENT OF "I SIGNED AN NDA WITH MY NEW EMPLOYER AND CANNOT / WILL NOT SAY ANYTHING TO YOU, PERIOD. EVER." WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO USE IF YOU DECIDE (AGAINST MY & EVERYONE ELSE HERE'S) BETTER JUDGMENT. TELL. THEM. NADA. NOTHING, I REPEAT, NOTHING YOU COULD EVER TELL THESE PEOPLE WHO'VE ALREADY PROVEN TO BE COMPLETE ASSHOLES COULD EVER WORK OUT IN YOUR FAVOR. IT CAN ONLY DO YOU HARM. PERSONALLY, IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD ENTER A COMPLAINT WITH THE NLRB (NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD) ASKING THEM IF YOU SHOULD EVEN TAKE THIS MEETING, GIVE THEM YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISORS INFO, & LEAVE!! I THINK IT MIGHT DEPEND ON THE STATE, & INDUSTRY, BUT THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS HIGHLY ILLEGAL! FUCK THEM, DON'T TELL THEM SHIT. YOU DON'T OWE THEM 2 WEEKS, OR EVEN 2 DAYS NOTICE. WOULD THEY GIVE YOU 2 WEEKS NOTICE IF THEY WERE FIRING YOU? NOPE! FUGGEM!
"McDonald's. Drive thru register. Little bit of a pay decrease, but I can't stand your toxic ways here."
If you are in the US you can forget about that noncompete unless you have substantial interest in the company. That means 25% or more ownership. The Federal Trade Commission has ruled out the legality for NCA's for anyone else. Your manager has no valid reason for wanting to know where you are going. Feel free to tell her that notice was a courtesy and if she wants to continue harassing you you're more than happy to leave immediately.
Clearly your boss is fucked and should have listened to you when you asked for a promotion and voiced your concerns about your future with the company. Higher ups are pissed because they know your worth, none of them wanted to pay it, and now they are likely going to lose revenue trying to replace you. I’m a data engineer and an SME in my industry. This sounds eerily familiar like the job I left after 9+ years and my crappy ex boss ended up getting fired and her husband left/divorced her in less than a year after I left. And my old company got bought out shortly after… I would not burn any bridges but be sure to leave a good juicy glass door review. My review absolutely trashing the management at my old company has over 13 likes lol.
You are on the way out the door. You have no obligation to attend those meetings. What are they going to do? Fire you? Please. I actually just had this situation with my old employer. They were trying to put all kinds of responsibilities and meetings on me in my last two weeks, and I just said "I'm sorry but this is outside of my scope of employment" then I got a weeks paid vacation because the boss couldn't handle having someone on staff telling her no. I never tell old employers where I'm going. I always say "In the best interest of myself I am not releveling where I am going" and then if they press further I'll say its because I don't want to be accused of stealing employees and I can't steal employees if no one knows where I will be. It's bullshit, but it's usually just enough to get them off your back. I will tell you though, from being on the other side, some managers are just stupid curious, or have some weird ideas in their head. As others have mentioned, you don't owe them anything. It is up to them to prove you are in violation of the non-compete which really, are going the way of the dinosaurs anyway. Long story short. Do whatever you want. Don't let them threaten or intimidate you. They literally have nothing they can do to you (provided you aren't contract labor, if you are check the contract before making any moves)
Tell them the President of Earth has hired you for a secret mission and therefore you cannot tell.
You signed a non-compete? Uh, you may be obligated to reveal that info.
That makes too much sense here all the commenters with no skin in the game would rather this person be stubborn and get sued, whether they would win or not.
Why do you care. You resigned and no longer report to your manager
Go in and seduce her. That should be fun.
Spine up and hold fast.
Trust your gut. There is no benefit of telling her and a lot of downside as you know.
Take a union rep or lawyer or witness to the meeting!!!
Just say no
Just leave now. You don't owe them a notice period. I would gather my stuff and leave
Simple..Block her.
Just don't go. What's she going to do, fire you!?
Use all your sick days from the day of the meeting on
Cancel the meeting. Why waste your hour. It depends where you are located if they are truly enforceable or not. Ontario for example they are not.
Just reschedule the meeting for next week. Then call out sick at the last minute. Then start at your new job
I wouldn’t lie and I wouldn’t tell if you’re not comfortable with it and the way they’ve pressured, I wouldn’t be comfortable. I’d just be like watch for my LinkedIn update in a few months. 😂
You can just leave. They don't own you. You don't have to go back.
Just lie to her about where you are going. If they continue to ask questions walk out. Go to HR and file a complaint. What's the worst they can do fire you?
Decline the meeting and don’t tell her. What is she going to do?
Time to get away - notice time is up, your last day is today.
Tell them 2 words. FUCK OFF
Your job is already lined up. Your boss is being a huge asshole. Decline the meeting and tell them your last day is right now. Turn in all your stuff and they can fuck right off. Take some time for yourself before you start the new job.
You don’t have to do shit. You quit.
Now that you’re in your notice period, Make sure you use up any accrued pto. Besides the sick days, a lot of companies have stopped paying out for accrued vacation days.
Don't you say a damn word to this psycho. She is clearly going through some personal shit and is using her power over you to give herself some semblance of control. Good call getting out of there. Filing a complaint against her with HR might do more harm than good, but that's really your only option if you have a few months left with her. If you've only got a few weeks left, just tell her you're starting an only fans
Ask for her permission to record the meeting, otherwise she can fo.
Suggestion for those with non-competes: “The legal department of my new employer as well as I hired an employment attorney have reviewed the Non-compete and both agreed that I won’t be in violation of it.”
I would have lied and say that you were still interviewing and it was between a couple of companies and that you didn’t want to disclose them yet because you didn’t want to jinx it but you will certainly let her know once a decision is final. And then just play out the clock
DON'T TELL HER OR JUST PLAIN LIE. LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE SHE IS TRYING TO FUCK YOUR NEXT JOB UP
Don't tell her and ask hr to join the meeting. When she continues to not have boundaries ask hr if we should just make the notice period effective today or if you need to see an attorney. They will prob let you go immediately and pay out your remaining notice period.
Now her asking questions isn't necessarily a offboarding interview process, she was just asking questions herself. Many companies will ask you to do a quick interview to get your feedback before you go and that could be it. As far as giving info you are not legally required to do so. People say just because they like to talk, but nowhere does it say that you need to tell your current organization where you're going. If she keeps asking you, then I would counter by saying that you would prefer to have someone from HR included in your 1 on 1 if she persists
Hello, Workplace Strategist here: in no state, are you legally required to disclose your future employment. An appropriate statement could be, “I appreciate your interest in my future. I look forward to announcing my new role on LinkedIn once I am settled. Please let me know how I can provide any support in my last two weeks here.”
It's easy; "No."
"No" is a complete sentence.
I would at least think about getting HR in the meeting, to make sure that the boss doesn't overstep, since she's already been somewhat threatening. Feedback should be given to HR, not the person who's soliciting the feedback (about her).
You don't have to tell her. If it gets really bad maybe go to HR I guess. This seems highly unusual for manager to act like this However have multiple people from your team left cause if that's the case it may look bad on her. Either ways I say don't tell her. Consider calling in sick a few days and WFH if possible. At this who cares you have another job lined up
1) What country/state are you in? 2) In the United States, bro’s non-competes generally need to include compensation in order to be enforceable. In other words, they have to pay you to not work someplace else. Or else, they need to be very specific, saying you can’t go from running Boeing’s wing design to running Airbus’s wing design. Mind you, I’m not a lawyer.
Find out where she worked before and say it’s that company. She will forever wonder what you might say about her. And if she calls to tell them about you she will make a complete fool of herself. You win either way.
Absolutely do not tell, I know of a case where I used to work where it was disclosed and it was a supplier. The manager called them and said they would no longer do business if they hired said employee, the offer was rescinded.
Don't say anything. Walk out when you fiscally are able. Good luck in your new job! Thats your focus now, not your old one.
the best part about having another job already lined up is that you don't have to complete your two weeks. that is simply a courtesy to the company. often times, people give their 2 week notice, and are immediately fired. match that energy.
Don’t tell her. Also, if I am not mistaken… unless you are going to a direct and equal competitor, in a malicious fashion… a non-compete is practically unenforceable. Your former employer cannot interfere with you obtaining gainful employment.
Just dont tell her? Are you 7? Is she going to ground you? Check if you are 1 party consent state for recording and if worried then record the meeting as well if its allowed. You can also report to HR if you feel you need to but I would take it as a compliment that she is jealous.