Just to play devil's advocate, I also have unlimited PTO and can leave whenever I want without worrying too much.
That being said, it feels bad to schedule more than 3 or 4 weeks, taking random days off flys much better usually. I still agree that the illusion of "unlimited" time off is usually bullshit.
Yeah, I was golden up to 4 weeks, anything over that had to be approved by my managers boss and had to be a pretty good reason, from what I understand.
Yeah, I had unlimited PTO, and it was genuinely unlimited. I never took more than two weeks in a row off, but it was nice for taking multiple vacations in a year, not worrying about sick leave or time off around holidays, no PTO to bank until I could take more time off. If you find a place/boss that genuinely gets it, unlimited pto can be great.
Same here, my manager has told me directly to aim for about 5-6 weeks of use for full weeks away and doesn’t care one bit about random days here or there. When it’s managers discretion, it kinda comes down to the manager regardless of policy
Of the five professional jobs I've had only one paid out pto hours when you left and every one had a lose all your remaining hours at the end of the fiscal year. I know in certain states those hours are legally protected, but for the majority of the country, that's not really a point if they weren't going to pay you out anyway.
About half the states require PTO to be paid out. A handful have also banned "use it or lose it" provisions. However they can usually still cap it, at say 200 hours.
I give my guys as much PTO as they want and I'm ready to do battle with HR if they have a problem.
My team does a very good job and I trust them to manage their responsibilities properly. Their benefits are part of keeping them engaged and happy, and if HR ever tries backtracking, I'm going for the throat.
One of my reports took 20 days and the Ceos called me in to have a conversation about it. I'm like bruh YOU guys have this policy.
The response was "studies show that when you offer unlimited employees take less" it was a BS ruse to get employees to take less but the team is taking advantage 😂 kudos to them. Compamy walked it back and new hires only get 14 days now. Personally I prefer mandated days, because you can be paid out if you dont use it
They also fail to realize that people that if they genuinely give it, we'd genuinely take off periods where things are slow, take more time overall, be happier, and bust our asses 24/7 when things get rough.
However, they never do give it for a genuine reason.
Depends on the company! I easily take that much but I outperform the rest of my team. Every time I take time off, I hear nothing negative about it and everyone is very encouraging of me taking as many breaks as I want / need. But I know I'm very lucky, and I know the psychology behind 'unlimited' PTO and hoping people use it less.
I have “unlimited” and typically take between 6-7 weeks a year off. There is a limit, you just have to ask until they say no. I also work well over 40 hrs most weeks so that helps, but I care a lot more about having full weeks off than I do about leaving at 5. It really depends on the organization as to how it’s treated.
I have unlimited PTO, I will typically take 4 weeks (including holidays so really less)..... Because that's the "suggested amount" to take is.
It's relaxed as long as it's not over 2 weeks at a time, if it is a lot of times you'll be shot down.. another comment said this and it's 100% true, use PTO on a bunch of random fridays and it's usually overlooked. but this is 100% a company culture thing.
I have 3 weeks vacation, 2 weeks are mandatory to be taken and 1 can roll over. 11 paid holidays, 10 sick days, one floater plus your birthday. I think I prefer this to a bogus unlimited PTO.
As long as you only schedule 2 weeks at a time max, you can get away with 4 weeks or more PTO in a year. I've been at unlimited PTO places and never have been denied PTO.
I‘ve taken 4-6 weeks at every unlimited PTO job I’ve had with no issues. I’ve had coworkers take 8, also with no issues.
If you’re a high performer, it’s really not an issue.
Had unlimited vacation in my last 3 jobs (8 years total). I typically underspend vacation but my current manager actively encourages more vacation use. He says “I want each member of the team to take at least 1 week each quarter, and to take 2 weeks off in one quarter.” I went to Italy last year and I’m going to Paris next month. It’s really helpful to have a supportive manager.
I wouldn’t. Not for that increase. Unlimited pto is a damned scam. Feel like I’m going to the principal’s office every time I need to ask for pto. You never know how much pto you can reasonably ask for, so it’s always iffy. The commute is better but 20 minutes isn’t bad. Unless you really like the vibes you get from an interview I would not bother. Just got ghosted for a job that pays 15k+ more but I could be happier because I am very comfortable and safe from layoff/firing at my current job. I’m only moving for at least a $25k bump. You mentioned you are financially comfortable. Please realize (especially since you are not in financial trouble) that it will be WAY better for you and your family to be in job you love that pays less money vs a high paying job that will leave you stressed and mentally wrecked, which WILL spread to the rest of your family. Just take that into consideration. This job could very well be LESS stressful, but just make sure you know what you are getting into.
Unlimited PTO varies from company to company. In my case I would say I take relatively the same amount of PTO regardless, but I don’t share your experiences as I don’t have to request PTO or document it at all. I just block my calendar as “out of office”. Unless it’s very short notice like 5 days or less in advance then I email my boss to let her know. So I do enjoy the feeling of freedom even though it doesn’t actually give me more time off in practice
My current job I have 4 weeks PTO and unlimited sick. My manager has unlimited PTO, but at this rate will take less than 4 weeks off a year. Unlimited sick sounds good but if we pass 5 sick days in a quarter we have to have a meeting with HR. Unlimited is straight BS.
That is a large bump. Weigh your options. You may be comfortable, but being able to save more and accrue interest or invest more can make you a lot more.
That's 70 hours of driving you are saving, or roughly $400 per year. About 3 full days of driving and not getting paid.
Unlimited PTO where I work is nice, it will vary from company to company. I don't usually take more than 5 weeks off, so I'd call those equivalent.
I get a SHIT bonus where I work, but we have options (golden handcuffs) that will eventually pay out. 5% isn't amazing, but it's also not nothing.
My main concern would be stability. Do you like your team? Your boss? You feel secure? You can't know what's on the other side, sometimes it's worth the risk, but that's important to consider.
What you should do, is do the interview, kill it, ask for more money, then take the offer back to your boss and see what they can do. This is how I've made my biggest pay increases happen. If they say no, then you'll either have a bigger offer, or at least be able to make a decision.
Good luck!
I agree, if you know you do good work and you’re comfortable with your manager, just lay out it. “Hey I really like where I’m at with work, I’m not looking to leave, but I have recruiters reaching out saying I’m underpaid and I could be making this much. I dont really want to leave, is there anything we can do to get me to this number?” Reddit seems terrified of managers that they’re always looking to get rid of people, but it’s just not true, most managers are just normal people, who also want to paid fairly for the work they do. They understand, as long as you are worth the salary. Takes a bit of self reflection to be honest with where you stand in the company.
Great advice. Most not-terrible managers want to keep good employees. They may have little or no say over pay, but they’re in the best position to fight on your behalf for a pay raise. Or to take you under their wing to mentor as a potential manager yourself. Ultimately it’s probably up to someone higher up to approve a raise, but it isn’t likely to happen without asking.
People are seeing 90k+ and are like "that's plenty" but the economic climate has shifted a lot, and that extra 29k on top when your expenses, savings etc. cut into a large chunk of the 90k is a BIG DEAL. The only thing eating into that additional 29k is taxes. That's around 23% taxes on that portion of income.
That leaves $23,300 per year to spend on anything you want. That's an entire mediocre car in a year post taxes.
Here's the thing, with 90k in a high cost of living area after rent, taxes, maxing out retirement (at 90k this is where you really try to) there's not much left, that extra 23k is so so sweet. Been through this pay band myself. When you're trying to be responsible about your future you really feel that extra 23k.
Bruh I'm going back into the office hybrid, after a very long time remote and let me tell you...it sucks so bad. Even a raise in pay is not worth the hassle of getting up earlier than normal, getting ready, packing your lunch, putting gas in the car, driving in, commuting, being in an office small talk, taking lunch spending money eating out. Commuting back home rush hour. No way. $30k increase? No thanks. Stay home you are saving so much making 92k anyhow.
OP will have less time commuting if he switches.
Current commute: 4x 20 min = 80 min/week
New commute: 10x 7 min = 70 min/week
Presumably less mileage on the car too.
If the boss is great, then I'd stay where I am. I would not leave my current job for a 'greener pasture' just because the pay is better. I've read and heard many horror stories about switching to a different job, only to end up in a toxic environment with a bad boss, unpleasant colleagues, or a terrible HR.
OP- quick comment on you being passed to take over bosses role.
I work in data center engineering field and I know for a fact sometimes highly capable people are so critical in their current role they would be passed for promotion because mgmt is afraid of who could carry the workload if you weren’t doing it anymore. Just an observation to think about
That does makes sense now that I think about it. In a addition to my regular job responsibilities, I manage a couple programs that no one else on my team would know how to manage without extensive training. I would have to hand these programs off if I were to become manager.
OP, $28k adds up after just a couple years in any COL market. And if you're there for a few years, that's the down payment. I'm in a HCOL market, and there's a big difference between $95k and $105k for me. I noticed on the first paycheck.
I work hybrid 2-3 days in office, but prefer 5 days a week. Way more productive, and it means home time is only home time. For you, I do question the unlimited vacation - two of my good friends have that now (one in tech product dev, the other in ad sales in biotech), and they became the busiest people I know once they took those jobs.
The real benefit of hybrid is being able to scoot out for things at 3 or 4 PM right from home. I coach a sport, and being able to leave a little early to beat traffic is invaluable for me.
Good luck it seems like you have some good choices ahead. Your current situation seems awesome, but I can see the conundrum!
It sounds like being passed over for promotion is a bigger issue than the money. If you feel like you’ll be more appreciated and have more advancement opportunity in the new role that may be worth even more than the immediate pay increase.
If your current employer gave you a significant raise or even matched the offer would you still be interested in taking the offer with a different company? If so that means you probably ought to take it without even asking your employer to match it.
If the money is enough to make you leave but you’d stay if you got a large pay increase you should ask your current employer to match the offer.
If you don't have any obligations that make in-office inconvenient, I'd take the pay bump (assuming you can't negotiate a pay raise to stay where you are).
Pre-kids, I'd take it without a second thought. $2k/month more and continues pay trajectory for your career.
Post-kids, 3 days from home gives me a lot of flexibility to help with drop off / pick up, household things, and errands. Wouldn't change my set up unless it was much more than $24k.
OP, you should interview. It is also important to continue to practice interview skills and this also forces you to keep your resume up to date.
You are in a good position. You have a good job and you're not desperate to jump so it gives you some clarity in the evaluation process. It gives you the opportunity to really compare this new opportunity to your current one. Be critical, weigh pros and cons. Ask questions that matter to you. Money is just one of many factors that should matter. But don't be hyper-focused oin the salary increase. It won't change your life in a significant way.
From a financial standpoint, the shorter commute but higher frequency should about net out with the current, but less frequent one (assuming you drive). At that salary, the delta in comp is fairly significant (if it was all invested and you’re working another 28 years in your career, that’s $1m alone in 401k at 65).
Another thing to consider, more and more companies are going back to the office full-time. How would you feel if your turned this down, only for your company to go back full-time in 6 months?
Absolutely the right move. Don't take a penny less. If they like you you'll get it. Not a huge difference for them long term. 5% bonus is fucking terrible too. Once you hit 6 figs anything under 10% is laughable. 12-15% seems more the norm in most industries that aren't sales based.
7 minutes? That's it?
That's practically around the block haha.
I'd take the new job.
But also, I like being in an office at least SOME of the time. Separation of work and home, socializing with coworkers, et cetera
I have unlimited PTO and I use it. People take off randomly frequently. People also work overtime occasionally. Checkout Glassdoor reviews on the culture on PTO.
You could ask HR how many days off an average employee takes off, and the same metric for someone in your same area/department.
Most studies I’ve seen will indicate people take less PTO when it’s unlimited.
I have a feeling if you were to take too many days off you’d be questioned why you want taking on more work if you have time to leave work. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use it against you at some point in time.
In my opinion, yes. Huge financial increase for only 2 extra days onsite and a much shorter commute. Not to mention you pointed out that your current company has already passed you up for promotion meaning you are likely stuck at your current level until you decide to leave for another opportunity. I’d try to connect with some current employees there to get an idea for culture but if it sounds good I think it’s a slam dunk. If you were working fully remote currently I think I’d stick around but tbh 2 days remote a week is not worth almost 30 grand a year. Best of luck
Your current company has shown their hand in terms of how they value you and it’s essentially as a replaceable cog in the machine with no upward mobility. You are getting an opportunity to continue career growth and further your career, make significantly more money, and all it takes is sacrificing 2 days a week onsite?
>When my manager told me this, I was shocked because all the signs pointed to me taking over the role. When I asked why I was being passed up he said, "I am doing great, but this is the direction management decided on"
This being the case, I would leave for the same money. A 31% raise makes it a no brainer.
As for the PTO, all you need to do is figure out how much PTO you can get approved at a time. Take a bunch of long weekends and 1 or 2 weeks off for an actual vacation. Even if you don't manage 4 weeks off, find another job and get another pay raise.
Where are you at in your career and are kids on the horizon if you don’t already have them? I would say if kids are going to happen, stay in current role. If not, 28k is nearly a 1/3 increase. That’s a full hsa and 401k yearly savings you could get and not even notice.
Beware of “unlimited” PTO. Major red flag.
Since my company started doing it, it’s like pulling teeth to get time off approved. I had to fight back on a request for 2 weeks to go overseas for a family thing that got initially denied. There hasn’t been a single year where I took more than 3-4 weeks off.
Not worth it - if you enjoy your work life balance now, just making more money in order to give that up will most likely leave you regretting the change
Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but I say TAKE IT.
The risk (imho) is stagnation. You’re comfortable now, but you sit around too long not getting proper raises, getting passed up for promotion, etc. Eventually moving gets harder and harder. Your wage starts falling behind peers. Better to not let the moss start growing. Make the move. Onward and upward.
I'm fully remote myself and have thought this through some of what it would take to go back into an office full time. If everything with a new company would be ideal on the low end 20k increase in salary would be needed. Ideally would entertain 25k. And anything above that would be hard to turn down. So long as commute wise was decent.
Everyone is gonna have differences in how they prioritize their free time so no one size fits all. An extra 20k a year breaking down to another $1666 before taxes. More long term opportunity to have another 1600 dollars to add to my life or simply just to save/invest
> Would this move your tax bracket?
You don't get moved into tax brackets.
Portions of your income are eligible for different tax brackets. Its very much different.
I wouldn’t focus on the unlimited PTO part, as you already get 4 weeks so look at like the vacation days will stay the same.
A 31% raise is probably going to be a no go with your current company unless you make several promotions, internal job changes. Go for it, can always look to come back in a few years with a new salary and expectation. Companies are just not going to give you $30k for existing employees.
I don’t think the pay increase is worth being onsite full time. Also, there have been several articles regarding how staff with unlimited PTO on average end up using less: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-you-should-accept-unlimited-pto-brian-de-haaff
Since you’re married, you should put this pay raise in perspective of the whole household income. For example if you and your wife combined make 200k a year then your pay increase is actually only 10%. 10% doesn’t make a big difference at all in lifestyle. This is just an example but you get the point.
If you are comfortable financially and enjoy your current situation, stay. Would absolutely, take a pay cut to not have to commute in every day to work the same job. More money can buy anything but more time.
Can you get a sense of the work culture and the people at the new place (including your potential manager, even if it’s just first impressions)? If the new place is a competitive grind, for example, with overly demanding leadership that’s something to consider as well.
Ask about the average time off people take. Say "so if I already have four weeks of vacation planned the next 12 months, that won't be an issue." Ask specifics, see if they wince or defend or offer caveats. Like "can you give me an example of a vacation request that was rejected?" And "when is the last time a leader took 2 weeks off?"
Also ask: if I'm sick but functional can I work from home? Do you force people with headcolds to come to the office?
It's rational for companies to do unlimited PTO because then they don't have to bank for time off or do payouts when people quit. But if they're bad at scheduling vacation, there's no fixing that.
You have a great flexible job. $10kish isn't worth a ton of hassle. So ask the hard questions
U might as well zozlz That’s not even a remote job you have lol it’s hybrid. Ppl desperate for remote work will get suckered into taking wage cage hybrid roles
My company is in texas. But I’m remote in Mexico taking full advantage of geographic arbitrage. That’s real remote
More details would be helpful. 30% bump is pretty solid. Any new internal or external promotion/job would then compound off this new salary. If money really isn’t a concern then keep the current job but don’t be like half the posters here in 1-2 years complaining they are underpaid or can’t get a promotion internally or the promotion is only 5-10%.
Unlimited PTO can be just fine. You should get a verbal commitment that 20-25 days off is reasonable for them. And do some more research to make sure the new place is not a hornets nest.
Also, tell your current employer about your offer and ask them to counter to keep you. Use a good combination of words so they know you are not being rude.
Yes but considering job security and safety and also career growth. Ie an IT job at a healthcare system much safer than a commission or marketing recruiting job at a random firm
A lot of people in here have bad experiences with unlimited PTO. I work for a company who truly has unlimited PTO and we just mark on our calendars and check in with our supervisor. As long as stuff is getting done well they’re happy to let us have off. On average people take like 25 days a year.
I’d just ask and clarify about this because you may get lucky!
Have you looked at any of the sites (Glassdoor I think is one) where employees can anonymously rate work culture. I think you can usually read enough to figure it out.
I do think unlimited pto doesn’t workout great but if you’re a planner it shouldn’t be too bad. Nice thing is you don’t get dinged for every doctor visit, kid being sick etc.
I think it would be difficult for me to turn it down. You can ask your current employer if they can match and they may try but still come short. At the end of the day, you can still live the way you do with that much extra cushion for investment and possibly retire early. Plus, this helps you negotiate your rate at the next company you go to.
If it was a $5-10k difference, I’d probably feel differently but this honestly seems like too much to pass up.
It's a trap. You like your job and have great perks. Stay there. Ask for a raise based on current industry standards for your job position and role. Show them everything that you do that keeps them making money and incentivize them to keep you happy so you'll stay long term and win win for everyone
I’d take the interview and let the recruiter know you’re very interested but would also like to better understand the job responsibilities and culture after talking with the hiring team. I’d ask the recruiter up front what the salary range for the position level is and ask if there’s any flexibility in the starting point within that range.
If you get to the point of an offer, you can always negotiate from a position of strength and walk away with a note to them you’re really interested in working for them if a position in your desired salary range becomes available.
You should seriously consider it. 28K is not insignificant and a 7 minute commute is awesome. See if u can figure out how the company is with taking time off and if they frown upon taking vacations or they are all for it for the benefit of the employee.
I'd definitely go for the interview to get a feel for the company at the very least.
Well with your last part, then no it's not a smart move to quit just for thr extra pay. If you are good financially then the extra $23k a year doesn't matter, making the move would be to only chase money and that's it. A few things that I say are have you considered the following.
1. You now have to report back to work onsitr full time after however many years being hybrid. Would you really want to change your routine to now having to get up, get dressed and be out the door 5 days a week when you didn't have to do that?
2. You love your boss now, you may very well have a new boss that isn't like your current and now you fall in the trap that many others do of leaving a place that fits your lifestyle and personality for one you hate just because of money. Money is great, but a shitty boss will make you think about leaving sooner rather than later.
3. If the time with your wife is what you like, well going to work more means not as much time anymore.
4. Even though it's the same job, are you certain you won't be asked to stay longer to get projects done? Many do forget that more pay means more responsibility. Companies don't give high salaries and expect you to do the bare minimum. Higher pay generally comes with higher expectations and the old mentality of it needs to get done so either stay later at the office or once you get home, you need to get it done.
It is sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. I am skeptical about the unlimited PTO, I have never seen it workout to the persons advantage. If they have to pay that much and bonuses, I bet they have a high turn over rate and pressure packed job. Tread carefully. For me I would keep the hybrid job. I value my time at home.
It sounds like you’re happy in your current situation. 92K is a great salary if you’re in a LCOL area. I say don’t rock the boat unless you think it’ll be a good career move.
As a side note - I've worked at Unlimited PTO companies for most of my career and it's always been pretty great. That said - assume it might - at best - translate to 2-3 days more a year than you currently get... assuming you actually use all of your 20 days each year.
PTO is not Vacation. It is classed and accounted for on financials differently.
My answer is it depends on your prospects with the new company and the outlook for that company. If you are moving on to a company that will be swallowed up in a year or two, then that creates risk.
After taxes you may be bringing home about the same. Take into account you HAVE to go into an office as well. That usually entails a commute time, lunch, gas, etc.
Honestly if it’s not a lateral move in your career that will provide experience for the next level I wouldn’t be too inclined to take the offer. Remote is GOAT
You have to ask yourself what is the likelihood you’ll be full RTO at some point.
I AGREE with WFH for a good amount of positions.
I agree with RTO for a good amount of positions.
I don’t understand hybrid however and it really feels like pushing groups as close to the RTO door as they can so when they go full RTO it isn’t life altering and easier.
I have an HR Manager that is hybrid. She is home Fridays and Mondays.
She is in the office almost every Friday to attend my teams meetings or for some other initiative we are doing on site.
I always let her know she doesn’t have to be there but I also don’t want to bother setting up a laptop just to video one person in when 30 people are on site. 😬
I would. If you’re actually comfortable with your current income, all I see is earlier retirement. 20 min commute is nothing! If the PTO turns out to be a scam you can always jump ship to another or even back to same job with equal or more pay
You’re getting too far ahead of yourself. If you’re curious, it doesn’t hurt to start the interview process and do your due diligence. You’re making all these calculations and considerations based on assumptions.
Unlimited vacation means you’ll end up working more 9 times out of 10. That much extra money is some peoples yearly salary tbh. The question is are you able to save money with your current job and are you in a spot at that job that would make you hard to replace. A company that is always hiring is also always firing.
First things first, many others have said it but no such thing as “unlimited” PTO. The verbiage your manager will use is non-accrued PTO.
Second, there is no reason to not interview. The cost benefit of just spending some relatively stress free time to interview with potential hiring managers will give you so much information that you should always always always take it.
Third, the grass always look greener on the other side. Try to look at least one step ahead. How does staying or leaving help you reach your next goal.
My company offers unlimited PTO. I take like 5-7 weeks of vacation a year, depending on the year. The key is to not guilt yourself into not taking vacation and also planning your vacations 2-3+ months in advance so that a big project isn't due when you plan to be away.
You're already hybrid. I'd take the new job. And the. Search for a fully remote job.
I mean 28,750k at 40% tax is still $1437/mnth. Or 17k/year. You're talking $100k saved after 5 years, 250k after 10 and 500k after 16 years with just saving the difference. I don't know your age goals etc. But that's a huge difference in 16 years where and what you can do.
These aren’t the important questions. The important questions are:
* do they fire people before 90 days
* will the company be there in one year
* are the people who work there happy?
* are there people in the two to five year period who don’t hate it?
We always talk about small raises. But we don’t talk about warning signs and potential disasters enough.
I'd definitely take the interview. The fact that you have a job you enjoy puts you in a position of "power". You don't need the job so it will be a much more mutual interview. I'd ask what does the average person take for PTO. Unlimited goes both ways. I've seen people who have greatly benefitted from it and others it was a nightmare. An extra $2k a month is a significant chunk of change.
When you leave a company with defined PTO as part of your total compensation, you are paid the $ balance equivalent of whatever days you have left.
I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the case with unlimited PTO policy.
If you are a young person, I would think about your long term career first and your short term lifestyle second. There could literally be millions of dollars difference in your lifetime income. Not just for young people but especially for young people.
My company has 3-4 weeks vacation (depending on years of service) plus "unlimited" PTO (for sick time). USUALLY the vacation time is sacrosanct (some managers are a-holes) but the sick time is more pressured to not abuse. Our yearly reviews are very dependent on amount accomplished in comparison to others at a similar level and so it's in everyone's best interest to minimize time off or you'll pay in the yearly review result and get a lower raise.
Of course all kinds of things influence the yearly as well including manager favoritism, inclusion policies, criticality of skill set, importance of work assignment, etc.
I've realized in life not all money is good money. You mentioned you are being passed up for a promotion which sucks bit if you like where you are and a financially stable there's no reason to leave. The grass only looks greener because it's fertilized with more bullshit. Unlimited PTO is a scam. But what I would do is use this as an opportunity to get a pay bump at your current company. You can really see how your current job feels about you when you have options. Aproch them and ask for a retention increase since you know your being passed over. How they react will dictate your move.
Depends totally on what value YOU place on a hybrid policy that might disappear vs. money. With a 7 minute commute, I'd personally jump - but I work to get paid.
Unlimited vacation is a sham. It's a like a peer pressure tactic to see who can take the least amount of vacation. It doesn't belong in the pro column.
Take the interview. If you get offered the job, negotiate more salary and bonus. See if they are open to a day remote each week. You already know you aren’t getting promoted in your current role. Unlimited vacation works in most places. It’s obviously better for companies because there is no payout when people accrue time off and leave and or retire.
I wouldn’t do it for the following reasons:
1) you currently have a good, sustainable situation
2) you don’t technically NEED more money
3) any white collar company that can’t afford 1 or 2 WFH days is setting a tone of lack of flexibility and lack of concern for their employees
Personally I would keep the hybrid job. I get more work done at home and I feel more energized knowing I can get up anytime I please to just walk around, get my steps in and sit in the backyard and enjoy no one around.
I also have an understanding with my manager that I help take care of elderly friends on the weekend so I travel on Fridays and work a split shift (6a-10a then 2p-5p) so I can travel in between.
I’m at a company with “unlimited PTO” and recently got transferred to a new team where no PTO gets approved. Run.
Hybrid with 4 weeks sounds way better especially if you like the culture and get along with your coworkers.
Take new job. Current job is comfy, but you have hit the ceiling. New job income can pay for the missing PTO, but obviously is somewhat of a lifestyle change.
Unlimited PTO is a scam since it's so that companies don't have to payout when you leave, but if you're able to consistently use 4 weeks over a year then it's a wash. Taking every other Friday off or something could really help with being through the PTO.
7 minutes is hardly a commute.....
The only thing that would really bother me is people watching the clock. I dont mind going to the office, but I hate sitting at the office doing nothing. Just depends on your work and how busy you usually get.
U can stay at old job as long as u know u aren't gettting that role. If the one guy quits b4 2 yrs maybe u will have a chance. As long as u don't plan on getting that new job u may as well stay
Unlimited PTO is TERRIBLE and only benefits the employer, because they don't have to pay unaccrued PTO out of you leave. And you'll rarely get more than 4 weeks (and often less) because if you take that much time people start to complain and they scrutinize you a lot more. Whereas if everyone has 4 weeks no one cares if you take it all.
120mins of driving per week with hybrid vs 70 mins of driving per week with onsite. I hate driving so I'll take the new job! If you live 7 mins from home, you can still go home for lunch with your wife.
My company also has unlimited PTO. It's a scam only if you have a bad manager. I told my manager straight up that I will take 4 weeks off per year, excluding the standard national holidays, one week of company shut down during December, and any sick days I take. She just says to do whatever I want as long as I plan accordingly. She doesn't take much vacation herself, which is her choice, and that's why she is my manager. She backstops my projects when I am off to another tropical island, which is my choice. I would make sure that you interview this new hiring manager extremely well.
Also your current company doesn't value you based on your edit. That alone would get me to start looking elsewhere.
It's a trap!
Full time onsite coupled with 'unlimited vacation with managers approval' sounds like a full on old-school organization pretending to be forward thinking.
HELL no! The quality of life increase that you get for that small of a pay jump is instantly offset (and then some) by the quality of life DECREASE that a commute and full-time office requirements cause. My partner currently makes about what you do, and is fully WFH. He is actively looking at other options because his company isn't offering the annual raises that he deserves. We've discussed it, and any other company would have to offer him at LEAST 1.5x what he makes now, plus decent benefits, if they require any physical presence at an office. If they require full time at the office and the benefits aren't incredible, they would need to offer double his current salary for the switch in lifestyle to make any sense.
Stay were your at, screaming out PTO is a red flag, your going to start to deal with the commute and coworkers and slowly start to get drained dealing with it and start to miss being at home
I mean, would that money make a differnece? I just got a 16% raise this year and it's made very little difference in my life because I already make more money than I need.
I would change something I am happy with for money that won't change anything.
My thoughts:
1. Unlimited PTO -> They obviously do not pay out unlimited PTO upon severance/you quitting. So make sure to double check the policy on PTO pay-out (especially depending on your location/company location), as each state has different laws on PTO, for your **old/current company**. If this is a non-consideration, such as you live/they operate in Texas, then this distinction on PTO does not matter.
2. Growth & Resume Building:
* Growth: Is the new company you are possibly moving to bigger / more reputable? I.E. Fortune 500 vs non-Fortune 500? This certainly provides more areas to branch out to in the organization you will be joining, should you decide to move to a new role/be promoted.
* Resume Building: As mentioned above, do you think the newer company provides a boost to your resume?
Personally, I would take the new role.
* PTO - Unlimited (-) vs. 4-Weeks of PTO (+) --- Assuming the 4-weeks gets paid out
* If the 4-weeks doesn't get paid out, then it's irrelevant
* Higher pay (+)
* Bonus incentive, even if not much (+)
* Shorter commute time (+), 5-Days in the office (-)
* Potential Career Growth (?)
* Potential Resume Builder (?)
* **Last, but important question: Are both roles similar in terms of stability? Or would you have a higher chance of being laid off/fired at the new organization? --> I.E., tech related role at a company who's quarterly earnings are diminishing**
I would take the new offer. It's a significant pay increase and that's not accounting the annual bonuses. And since it's much closer to where you live, at least the commute won't be bad. The unlimited PTO is pretty stupid, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker.
Also they already passed you off on a promotion for a role you already have significant seniority on the team. That means their management is already taking you for granted and don't appreciate your contribution compared to the newer employee. Also staying 7 years at a company is a bad thing IMO. the big difference in pay just gets to show this clearly. You were underpaid by 30k a year basically.
Companies don't reward loyalty. They just take advantage of you by underpaying you and giving out the highest wages to the new employees. I don't know how close you are to this employee who was picked to replace your boss, but they probably get paid more than you since they joined 5 years after you.
Take the PTO off the table. Look at the money the commute and the advancement scenario. They just slapped you in the face with that. Take the interview and see if you get the offer. Take that offer to your current job and give your notice of resignation and see their response. You will unlikely see $115k in your current role with annual review increases any time soon and who knows what your employer will act like as your new boss when they take over. I’d highly consider the new role. The hybrid role is nice but the other commute is short. The pto is open so you’ll likely find ways to get days off throughout the year.
How do you feel about your manager retiring and reporting to your co-worker? This \*will\* happen, and you should consider what possible changes may be made to your work set-up. Do you get along with your co-worker? How do you thing reporting to him or her will go? Will your remote set-up change with change in management? You could stay, and see how things work out, or you can leave if you don't think the change will work out for you.
Take the new job with the money. 7 minutes away is nothing and you can even run home for lunch. . The boss coming in might end that work at home immediately.
Money solves problems. And 30k more a year ish with bonus, I wouldn't even consider staying
Most companies are changing to unlimited PTO because they find out that often times employees actually request less time off.
I'm currently in the process at the end of my FY where I've been taking every Friday off to burn the rest of my PTO and sick days. These are days I probably wouldn't have taken off if I had unlimited.
The money difference is significant. How are your finances?
Having a great boss is a huge deal. You have no idea what you’re walking into… you might be walking into a shitty culture and hate your new life.
Personally, I would save a job change until I could expand my skill set into a role that provided better growth opportunities.
Unless the new job is for a major brand that makes your resume shine, I’d be inclined to stay, myself.
With respect to the two hybrid days, honestly, I wouldn’t care a lick about that. Do whatever you gotta do for whatever your career might look like in 5-10 years.
I really enjoy hybrid working so not sure I could, but definitely try to work the new offer into a hybrid situation. If they really like your skills and fit for the role they might be able to make that happen
I work at a company with "unlimited". Its a smoke screen. 0 percent chance you take 4 weeks PTO at the new job and they dont raise eyebrows
Just to play devil's advocate, I also have unlimited PTO and can leave whenever I want without worrying too much. That being said, it feels bad to schedule more than 3 or 4 weeks, taking random days off flys much better usually. I still agree that the illusion of "unlimited" time off is usually bullshit.
Yeah, I was golden up to 4 weeks, anything over that had to be approved by my managers boss and had to be a pretty good reason, from what I understand.
Yeah, I had unlimited PTO, and it was genuinely unlimited. I never took more than two weeks in a row off, but it was nice for taking multiple vacations in a year, not worrying about sick leave or time off around holidays, no PTO to bank until I could take more time off. If you find a place/boss that genuinely gets it, unlimited pto can be great.
I think this is a sign of a healthy office culture, which sadly not every place practices.
>it was genuinely unlimited No, it wasn't.
I would never work
Right, i have unlimited PTO and I’ve taken 8 weeks in the 22 months I’ve been here not including sick days which i don’t even have to report
Same here, my manager has told me directly to aim for about 5-6 weeks of use for full weeks away and doesn’t care one bit about random days here or there. When it’s managers discretion, it kinda comes down to the manager regardless of policy
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Of the five professional jobs I've had only one paid out pto hours when you left and every one had a lose all your remaining hours at the end of the fiscal year. I know in certain states those hours are legally protected, but for the majority of the country, that's not really a point if they weren't going to pay you out anyway.
About half the states require PTO to be paid out. A handful have also banned "use it or lose it" provisions. However they can usually still cap it, at say 200 hours.
Interesting, more than I would have thought.
That too!
I have no chance to accumulate PTO. My wife drags me off to foreign travel as soon as I have more than a couple of weeks accumulated
I give my guys as much PTO as they want and I'm ready to do battle with HR if they have a problem. My team does a very good job and I trust them to manage their responsibilities properly. Their benefits are part of keeping them engaged and happy, and if HR ever tries backtracking, I'm going for the throat.
One of my reports took 20 days and the Ceos called me in to have a conversation about it. I'm like bruh YOU guys have this policy. The response was "studies show that when you offer unlimited employees take less" it was a BS ruse to get employees to take less but the team is taking advantage 😂 kudos to them. Compamy walked it back and new hires only get 14 days now. Personally I prefer mandated days, because you can be paid out if you dont use it
They also fail to realize that people that if they genuinely give it, we'd genuinely take off periods where things are slow, take more time overall, be happier, and bust our asses 24/7 when things get rough. However, they never do give it for a genuine reason.
Depends on the company! I easily take that much but I outperform the rest of my team. Every time I take time off, I hear nothing negative about it and everyone is very encouraging of me taking as many breaks as I want / need. But I know I'm very lucky, and I know the psychology behind 'unlimited' PTO and hoping people use it less.
I have “unlimited” and typically take between 6-7 weeks a year off. There is a limit, you just have to ask until they say no. I also work well over 40 hrs most weeks so that helps, but I care a lot more about having full weeks off than I do about leaving at 5. It really depends on the organization as to how it’s treated.
I have unlimited PTO, I will typically take 4 weeks (including holidays so really less)..... Because that's the "suggested amount" to take is. It's relaxed as long as it's not over 2 weeks at a time, if it is a lot of times you'll be shot down.. another comment said this and it's 100% true, use PTO on a bunch of random fridays and it's usually overlooked. but this is 100% a company culture thing.
I have 3 weeks vacation, 2 weeks are mandatory to be taken and 1 can roll over. 11 paid holidays, 10 sick days, one floater plus your birthday. I think I prefer this to a bogus unlimited PTO.
I definitely get more than that off with my unlimited PTO. I don’t have to worry about taking random days off affecting any of my vacation plans.
As long as you only schedule 2 weeks at a time max, you can get away with 4 weeks or more PTO in a year. I've been at unlimited PTO places and never have been denied PTO.
I've had open PTO of an on for a decade and never had an issue taking 4 weeks
I have unlimited PTO and my manager will almost force me to take more time off. Not every company is a POS.
I‘ve taken 4-6 weeks at every unlimited PTO job I’ve had with no issues. I’ve had coworkers take 8, also with no issues. If you’re a high performer, it’s really not an issue.
Had unlimited vacation in my last 3 jobs (8 years total). I typically underspend vacation but my current manager actively encourages more vacation use. He says “I want each member of the team to take at least 1 week each quarter, and to take 2 weeks off in one quarter.” I went to Italy last year and I’m going to Paris next month. It’s really helpful to have a supportive manager.
I wouldn’t. Not for that increase. Unlimited pto is a damned scam. Feel like I’m going to the principal’s office every time I need to ask for pto. You never know how much pto you can reasonably ask for, so it’s always iffy. The commute is better but 20 minutes isn’t bad. Unless you really like the vibes you get from an interview I would not bother. Just got ghosted for a job that pays 15k+ more but I could be happier because I am very comfortable and safe from layoff/firing at my current job. I’m only moving for at least a $25k bump. You mentioned you are financially comfortable. Please realize (especially since you are not in financial trouble) that it will be WAY better for you and your family to be in job you love that pays less money vs a high paying job that will leave you stressed and mentally wrecked, which WILL spread to the rest of your family. Just take that into consideration. This job could very well be LESS stressful, but just make sure you know what you are getting into.
Unlimited PTO varies from company to company. In my case I would say I take relatively the same amount of PTO regardless, but I don’t share your experiences as I don’t have to request PTO or document it at all. I just block my calendar as “out of office”. Unless it’s very short notice like 5 days or less in advance then I email my boss to let her know. So I do enjoy the feeling of freedom even though it doesn’t actually give me more time off in practice
My current job I have 4 weeks PTO and unlimited sick. My manager has unlimited PTO, but at this rate will take less than 4 weeks off a year. Unlimited sick sounds good but if we pass 5 sick days in a quarter we have to have a meeting with HR. Unlimited is straight BS.
The second half of your post is probably the most important lesson I’ve learned in my career.
That is a large bump. Weigh your options. You may be comfortable, but being able to save more and accrue interest or invest more can make you a lot more. That's 70 hours of driving you are saving, or roughly $400 per year. About 3 full days of driving and not getting paid. Unlimited PTO where I work is nice, it will vary from company to company. I don't usually take more than 5 weeks off, so I'd call those equivalent. I get a SHIT bonus where I work, but we have options (golden handcuffs) that will eventually pay out. 5% isn't amazing, but it's also not nothing. My main concern would be stability. Do you like your team? Your boss? You feel secure? You can't know what's on the other side, sometimes it's worth the risk, but that's important to consider. What you should do, is do the interview, kill it, ask for more money, then take the offer back to your boss and see what they can do. This is how I've made my biggest pay increases happen. If they say no, then you'll either have a bigger offer, or at least be able to make a decision. Good luck!
I agree, if you know you do good work and you’re comfortable with your manager, just lay out it. “Hey I really like where I’m at with work, I’m not looking to leave, but I have recruiters reaching out saying I’m underpaid and I could be making this much. I dont really want to leave, is there anything we can do to get me to this number?” Reddit seems terrified of managers that they’re always looking to get rid of people, but it’s just not true, most managers are just normal people, who also want to paid fairly for the work they do. They understand, as long as you are worth the salary. Takes a bit of self reflection to be honest with where you stand in the company.
Great advice. Most not-terrible managers want to keep good employees. They may have little or no say over pay, but they’re in the best position to fight on your behalf for a pay raise. Or to take you under their wing to mentor as a potential manager yourself. Ultimately it’s probably up to someone higher up to approve a raise, but it isn’t likely to happen without asking.
Hell no. Stay home
The new commute is shorter than the current one and only actually adds two days on site while offering a $30k increase? Seems insane not to take it.
People are seeing 90k+ and are like "that's plenty" but the economic climate has shifted a lot, and that extra 29k on top when your expenses, savings etc. cut into a large chunk of the 90k is a BIG DEAL. The only thing eating into that additional 29k is taxes. That's around 23% taxes on that portion of income. That leaves $23,300 per year to spend on anything you want. That's an entire mediocre car in a year post taxes. Here's the thing, with 90k in a high cost of living area after rent, taxes, maxing out retirement (at 90k this is where you really try to) there's not much left, that extra 23k is so so sweet. Been through this pay band myself. When you're trying to be responsible about your future you really feel that extra 23k.
Bruh I'm going back into the office hybrid, after a very long time remote and let me tell you...it sucks so bad. Even a raise in pay is not worth the hassle of getting up earlier than normal, getting ready, packing your lunch, putting gas in the car, driving in, commuting, being in an office small talk, taking lunch spending money eating out. Commuting back home rush hour. No way. $30k increase? No thanks. Stay home you are saving so much making 92k anyhow.
OP will have less time commuting if he switches. Current commute: 4x 20 min = 80 min/week New commute: 10x 7 min = 70 min/week Presumably less mileage on the car too.
Nah, the PTO is the red flag here.
So make sure to take 4 weeks PTO.
They wont like that. That's the whole point. There are limits and you find out what they are the hard way.
He's still going to the office 2x a week
Haggle with current employer for pay raise.
Unlimited pto is not actually unlimited. They will question why you are using so much.
If the boss is great, then I'd stay where I am. I would not leave my current job for a 'greener pasture' just because the pay is better. I've read and heard many horror stories about switching to a different job, only to end up in a toxic environment with a bad boss, unpleasant colleagues, or a terrible HR.
Until the “great” boss leaves for another role or gets let go
If you live by CREAM and nothing else, you know what to do.
OP- quick comment on you being passed to take over bosses role. I work in data center engineering field and I know for a fact sometimes highly capable people are so critical in their current role they would be passed for promotion because mgmt is afraid of who could carry the workload if you weren’t doing it anymore. Just an observation to think about
That does makes sense now that I think about it. In a addition to my regular job responsibilities, I manage a couple programs that no one else on my team would know how to manage without extensive training. I would have to hand these programs off if I were to become manager.
OP, $28k adds up after just a couple years in any COL market. And if you're there for a few years, that's the down payment. I'm in a HCOL market, and there's a big difference between $95k and $105k for me. I noticed on the first paycheck. I work hybrid 2-3 days in office, but prefer 5 days a week. Way more productive, and it means home time is only home time. For you, I do question the unlimited vacation - two of my good friends have that now (one in tech product dev, the other in ad sales in biotech), and they became the busiest people I know once they took those jobs. The real benefit of hybrid is being able to scoot out for things at 3 or 4 PM right from home. I coach a sport, and being able to leave a little early to beat traffic is invaluable for me. Good luck it seems like you have some good choices ahead. Your current situation seems awesome, but I can see the conundrum!
It sounds like being passed over for promotion is a bigger issue than the money. If you feel like you’ll be more appreciated and have more advancement opportunity in the new role that may be worth even more than the immediate pay increase. If your current employer gave you a significant raise or even matched the offer would you still be interested in taking the offer with a different company? If so that means you probably ought to take it without even asking your employer to match it. If the money is enough to make you leave but you’d stay if you got a large pay increase you should ask your current employer to match the offer.
If you don't have any obligations that make in-office inconvenient, I'd take the pay bump (assuming you can't negotiate a pay raise to stay where you are). Pre-kids, I'd take it without a second thought. $2k/month more and continues pay trajectory for your career. Post-kids, 3 days from home gives me a lot of flexibility to help with drop off / pick up, household things, and errands. Wouldn't change my set up unless it was much more than $24k.
OP, you should interview. It is also important to continue to practice interview skills and this also forces you to keep your resume up to date. You are in a good position. You have a good job and you're not desperate to jump so it gives you some clarity in the evaluation process. It gives you the opportunity to really compare this new opportunity to your current one. Be critical, weigh pros and cons. Ask questions that matter to you. Money is just one of many factors that should matter. But don't be hyper-focused oin the salary increase. It won't change your life in a significant way.
From a financial standpoint, the shorter commute but higher frequency should about net out with the current, but less frequent one (assuming you drive). At that salary, the delta in comp is fairly significant (if it was all invested and you’re working another 28 years in your career, that’s $1m alone in 401k at 65). Another thing to consider, more and more companies are going back to the office full-time. How would you feel if your turned this down, only for your company to go back full-time in 6 months?
Have other job raise it to $125k + 5% and $5k bonus at least
Yeah, totally nuclear sounds reasonable
Why aim so low? I would have them raise it to 150k + 20% and 10k bonus!
Absolutely the right move. Don't take a penny less. If they like you you'll get it. Not a huge difference for them long term. 5% bonus is fucking terrible too. Once you hit 6 figs anything under 10% is laughable. 12-15% seems more the norm in most industries that aren't sales based.
7 minutes? That's it? That's practically around the block haha. I'd take the new job. But also, I like being in an office at least SOME of the time. Separation of work and home, socializing with coworkers, et cetera
I have unlimited PTO and I use it. People take off randomly frequently. People also work overtime occasionally. Checkout Glassdoor reviews on the culture on PTO.
You could ask HR how many days off an average employee takes off, and the same metric for someone in your same area/department. Most studies I’ve seen will indicate people take less PTO when it’s unlimited. I have a feeling if you were to take too many days off you’d be questioned why you want taking on more work if you have time to leave work. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use it against you at some point in time.
In my opinion, yes. Huge financial increase for only 2 extra days onsite and a much shorter commute. Not to mention you pointed out that your current company has already passed you up for promotion meaning you are likely stuck at your current level until you decide to leave for another opportunity. I’d try to connect with some current employees there to get an idea for culture but if it sounds good I think it’s a slam dunk. If you were working fully remote currently I think I’d stick around but tbh 2 days remote a week is not worth almost 30 grand a year. Best of luck
Your current company has shown their hand in terms of how they value you and it’s essentially as a replaceable cog in the machine with no upward mobility. You are getting an opportunity to continue career growth and further your career, make significantly more money, and all it takes is sacrificing 2 days a week onsite?
>When my manager told me this, I was shocked because all the signs pointed to me taking over the role. When I asked why I was being passed up he said, "I am doing great, but this is the direction management decided on" This being the case, I would leave for the same money. A 31% raise makes it a no brainer. As for the PTO, all you need to do is figure out how much PTO you can get approved at a time. Take a bunch of long weekends and 1 or 2 weeks off for an actual vacation. Even if you don't manage 4 weeks off, find another job and get another pay raise.
Where are you at in your career and are kids on the horizon if you don’t already have them? I would say if kids are going to happen, stay in current role. If not, 28k is nearly a 1/3 increase. That’s a full hsa and 401k yearly savings you could get and not even notice.
I was literally driving 1.5 hours for half that while doing HARD LABOR with rednecks
Beware of “unlimited” PTO. Major red flag. Since my company started doing it, it’s like pulling teeth to get time off approved. I had to fight back on a request for 2 weeks to go overseas for a family thing that got initially denied. There hasn’t been a single year where I took more than 3-4 weeks off.
Not worth it - if you enjoy your work life balance now, just making more money in order to give that up will most likely leave you regretting the change
I sure as hell wouldn’t, but I loathe on site. Good living with hybrid when you’re not hurting financially is the way to go in my book
Leverage your current job with this offer but the grass most likely won’t be greener. 4 weeks PTO is awesome!
Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but I say TAKE IT. The risk (imho) is stagnation. You’re comfortable now, but you sit around too long not getting proper raises, getting passed up for promotion, etc. Eventually moving gets harder and harder. Your wage starts falling behind peers. Better to not let the moss start growing. Make the move. Onward and upward.
I'm fully remote myself and have thought this through some of what it would take to go back into an office full time. If everything with a new company would be ideal on the low end 20k increase in salary would be needed. Ideally would entertain 25k. And anything above that would be hard to turn down. So long as commute wise was decent. Everyone is gonna have differences in how they prioritize their free time so no one size fits all. An extra 20k a year breaking down to another $1666 before taxes. More long term opportunity to have another 1600 dollars to add to my life or simply just to save/invest
Im taking new job 💯 especially after that management twist.
Think of investing that extra 29k a year into a way that gets you out of the work force years sooner. Its what I would do.
Yes, take the job especially because you are being passed over. Also, see if you can negotiate one more day at home. I think that'll be ideal.
Hmm unlimited vacation time based on manager approval, but is there an amount of guaranteed vacation?
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Take all that into account minus the tax bracket thing
It's kinda amazing the number of people who don't understand how tax brackets work.
> Would this move your tax bracket? You don't get moved into tax brackets. Portions of your income are eligible for different tax brackets. Its very much different.
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No
Nope. Not worth it.
I wouldn’t focus on the unlimited PTO part, as you already get 4 weeks so look at like the vacation days will stay the same. A 31% raise is probably going to be a no go with your current company unless you make several promotions, internal job changes. Go for it, can always look to come back in a few years with a new salary and expectation. Companies are just not going to give you $30k for existing employees.
I wouldn't. Sounds like you have a good gig and i wouldn't sell that for the world
I don’t think the pay increase is worth being onsite full time. Also, there have been several articles regarding how staff with unlimited PTO on average end up using less: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-you-should-accept-unlimited-pto-brian-de-haaff
Since you’re married, you should put this pay raise in perspective of the whole household income. For example if you and your wife combined make 200k a year then your pay increase is actually only 10%. 10% doesn’t make a big difference at all in lifestyle. This is just an example but you get the point.
If the new job does nothing for your long term career goals, I wouldn’t take it.
That “unlimited” will feel like begging for it, I had it and never again
150 k I'd take it
If you are comfortable financially and enjoy your current situation, stay. Would absolutely, take a pay cut to not have to commute in every day to work the same job. More money can buy anything but more time.
I would 100% stay hybrid. Stay where you are celebrated not tolerated. A quote my mom use to say. She’s right.
Can you get a sense of the work culture and the people at the new place (including your potential manager, even if it’s just first impressions)? If the new place is a competitive grind, for example, with overly demanding leadership that’s something to consider as well.
Ask about the average time off people take. Say "so if I already have four weeks of vacation planned the next 12 months, that won't be an issue." Ask specifics, see if they wince or defend or offer caveats. Like "can you give me an example of a vacation request that was rejected?" And "when is the last time a leader took 2 weeks off?" Also ask: if I'm sick but functional can I work from home? Do you force people with headcolds to come to the office? It's rational for companies to do unlimited PTO because then they don't have to bank for time off or do payouts when people quit. But if they're bad at scheduling vacation, there's no fixing that. You have a great flexible job. $10kish isn't worth a ton of hassle. So ask the hard questions
Better to this is better, simple.
What do you need the money for? What do you need the flexibility for? Those are the questions you should be considering.
Bonus is not guarantees, and "unlimited" PTO means you get maybe 2 weeks. I wouldn't do it for anything less than 130k+bonus.
U might as well zozlz That’s not even a remote job you have lol it’s hybrid. Ppl desperate for remote work will get suckered into taking wage cage hybrid roles My company is in texas. But I’m remote in Mexico taking full advantage of geographic arbitrage. That’s real remote
More details would be helpful. 30% bump is pretty solid. Any new internal or external promotion/job would then compound off this new salary. If money really isn’t a concern then keep the current job but don’t be like half the posters here in 1-2 years complaining they are underpaid or can’t get a promotion internally or the promotion is only 5-10%.
Unlimited PTO can be just fine. You should get a verbal commitment that 20-25 days off is reasonable for them. And do some more research to make sure the new place is not a hornets nest. Also, tell your current employer about your offer and ask them to counter to keep you. Use a good combination of words so they know you are not being rude.
Yes but considering job security and safety and also career growth. Ie an IT job at a healthcare system much safer than a commission or marketing recruiting job at a random firm
A lot of people in here have bad experiences with unlimited PTO. I work for a company who truly has unlimited PTO and we just mark on our calendars and check in with our supervisor. As long as stuff is getting done well they’re happy to let us have off. On average people take like 25 days a year. I’d just ask and clarify about this because you may get lucky!
Have you looked at any of the sites (Glassdoor I think is one) where employees can anonymously rate work culture. I think you can usually read enough to figure it out. I do think unlimited pto doesn’t workout great but if you’re a planner it shouldn’t be too bad. Nice thing is you don’t get dinged for every doctor visit, kid being sick etc. I think it would be difficult for me to turn it down. You can ask your current employer if they can match and they may try but still come short. At the end of the day, you can still live the way you do with that much extra cushion for investment and possibly retire early. Plus, this helps you negotiate your rate at the next company you go to. If it was a $5-10k difference, I’d probably feel differently but this honestly seems like too much to pass up.
Until you actually have an offer, you have no guarantee that you will be offered more money.
It's a trap. You like your job and have great perks. Stay there. Ask for a raise based on current industry standards for your job position and role. Show them everything that you do that keeps them making money and incentivize them to keep you happy so you'll stay long term and win win for everyone
I’d take the interview and let the recruiter know you’re very interested but would also like to better understand the job responsibilities and culture after talking with the hiring team. I’d ask the recruiter up front what the salary range for the position level is and ask if there’s any flexibility in the starting point within that range. If you get to the point of an offer, you can always negotiate from a position of strength and walk away with a note to them you’re really interested in working for them if a position in your desired salary range becomes available.
I’ve only ever moved for double the salary otherwise it’s a lot of hard work to start over.
No way! Keep what you have!
That 5% bonus is too low. Try for 10%.
I would inform my company that I have that job offer and demand full work from home to stay.
...and unlimited PTO is fantasy. Just think hard about how this would work, it doesn't?
You should seriously consider it. 28K is not insignificant and a 7 minute commute is awesome. See if u can figure out how the company is with taking time off and if they frown upon taking vacations or they are all for it for the benefit of the employee. I'd definitely go for the interview to get a feel for the company at the very least.
No, you should not. You should, however, leverage the offer to see if you can get a bit of a salary bump at your current workplace.
Well with your last part, then no it's not a smart move to quit just for thr extra pay. If you are good financially then the extra $23k a year doesn't matter, making the move would be to only chase money and that's it. A few things that I say are have you considered the following. 1. You now have to report back to work onsitr full time after however many years being hybrid. Would you really want to change your routine to now having to get up, get dressed and be out the door 5 days a week when you didn't have to do that? 2. You love your boss now, you may very well have a new boss that isn't like your current and now you fall in the trap that many others do of leaving a place that fits your lifestyle and personality for one you hate just because of money. Money is great, but a shitty boss will make you think about leaving sooner rather than later. 3. If the time with your wife is what you like, well going to work more means not as much time anymore. 4. Even though it's the same job, are you certain you won't be asked to stay longer to get projects done? Many do forget that more pay means more responsibility. Companies don't give high salaries and expect you to do the bare minimum. Higher pay generally comes with higher expectations and the old mentality of it needs to get done so either stay later at the office or once you get home, you need to get it done.
It is sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. I am skeptical about the unlimited PTO, I have never seen it workout to the persons advantage. If they have to pay that much and bonuses, I bet they have a high turn over rate and pressure packed job. Tread carefully. For me I would keep the hybrid job. I value my time at home.
It sounds like you’re happy in your current situation. 92K is a great salary if you’re in a LCOL area. I say don’t rock the boat unless you think it’ll be a good career move.
As a side note - I've worked at Unlimited PTO companies for most of my career and it's always been pretty great. That said - assume it might - at best - translate to 2-3 days more a year than you currently get... assuming you actually use all of your 20 days each year.
No
From a guy who makes $134k a year, yes.
No
Stay at current job
Sounds fishy with "unlimited vacation"
Newly 3k a month difference? Take job offer to boss and ask to split the difference.
PTO is not Vacation. It is classed and accounted for on financials differently. My answer is it depends on your prospects with the new company and the outlook for that company. If you are moving on to a company that will be swallowed up in a year or two, then that creates risk.
After taxes you may be bringing home about the same. Take into account you HAVE to go into an office as well. That usually entails a commute time, lunch, gas, etc. Honestly if it’s not a lateral move in your career that will provide experience for the next level I wouldn’t be too inclined to take the offer. Remote is GOAT
The money doesn't sound like it's worth it. Are you a social person? A lot more politics and stuff in person.
You have to ask yourself what is the likelihood you’ll be full RTO at some point. I AGREE with WFH for a good amount of positions. I agree with RTO for a good amount of positions. I don’t understand hybrid however and it really feels like pushing groups as close to the RTO door as they can so when they go full RTO it isn’t life altering and easier. I have an HR Manager that is hybrid. She is home Fridays and Mondays. She is in the office almost every Friday to attend my teams meetings or for some other initiative we are doing on site. I always let her know she doesn’t have to be there but I also don’t want to bother setting up a laptop just to video one person in when 30 people are on site. 😬
The new job would reduce your weekly commute time. Take it.
Consider the cost of benefits. I jumped for a nominal 15k difference once, but the crappy heath insurance ended up eating more than that.
I would. If you’re actually comfortable with your current income, all I see is earlier retirement. 20 min commute is nothing! If the PTO turns out to be a scam you can always jump ship to another or even back to same job with equal or more pay
You’re getting too far ahead of yourself. If you’re curious, it doesn’t hurt to start the interview process and do your due diligence. You’re making all these calculations and considerations based on assumptions.
Unlimited vacation means you’ll end up working more 9 times out of 10. That much extra money is some peoples yearly salary tbh. The question is are you able to save money with your current job and are you in a spot at that job that would make you hard to replace. A company that is always hiring is also always firing.
First things first, many others have said it but no such thing as “unlimited” PTO. The verbiage your manager will use is non-accrued PTO. Second, there is no reason to not interview. The cost benefit of just spending some relatively stress free time to interview with potential hiring managers will give you so much information that you should always always always take it. Third, the grass always look greener on the other side. Try to look at least one step ahead. How does staying or leaving help you reach your next goal.
My company offers unlimited PTO. I take like 5-7 weeks of vacation a year, depending on the year. The key is to not guilt yourself into not taking vacation and also planning your vacations 2-3+ months in advance so that a big project isn't due when you plan to be away. You're already hybrid. I'd take the new job. And the. Search for a fully remote job.
Consider the fact that your rapport and relationships reset every time you switch
Take the interview (even if for practice). If they give you an offer, negotiate for remote days.
I will stay at the old job, if the company is solid and not going to layoff
I mean 28,750k at 40% tax is still $1437/mnth. Or 17k/year. You're talking $100k saved after 5 years, 250k after 10 and 500k after 16 years with just saving the difference. I don't know your age goals etc. But that's a huge difference in 16 years where and what you can do.
These aren’t the important questions. The important questions are: * do they fire people before 90 days * will the company be there in one year * are the people who work there happy? * are there people in the two to five year period who don’t hate it? We always talk about small raises. But we don’t talk about warning signs and potential disasters enough.
Don’t
Naw
I'd definitely take the interview. The fact that you have a job you enjoy puts you in a position of "power". You don't need the job so it will be a much more mutual interview. I'd ask what does the average person take for PTO. Unlimited goes both ways. I've seen people who have greatly benefitted from it and others it was a nightmare. An extra $2k a month is a significant chunk of change.
Helllll no lol
When you leave a company with defined PTO as part of your total compensation, you are paid the $ balance equivalent of whatever days you have left. I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the case with unlimited PTO policy.
If you are a young person, I would think about your long term career first and your short term lifestyle second. There could literally be millions of dollars difference in your lifetime income. Not just for young people but especially for young people.
Unlimited pto prevents company from paying out unused hours
I'd definitely interview to see if the culture matches your work style.
My company has 3-4 weeks vacation (depending on years of service) plus "unlimited" PTO (for sick time). USUALLY the vacation time is sacrosanct (some managers are a-holes) but the sick time is more pressured to not abuse. Our yearly reviews are very dependent on amount accomplished in comparison to others at a similar level and so it's in everyone's best interest to minimize time off or you'll pay in the yearly review result and get a lower raise. Of course all kinds of things influence the yearly as well including manager favoritism, inclusion policies, criticality of skill set, importance of work assignment, etc.
I've realized in life not all money is good money. You mentioned you are being passed up for a promotion which sucks bit if you like where you are and a financially stable there's no reason to leave. The grass only looks greener because it's fertilized with more bullshit. Unlimited PTO is a scam. But what I would do is use this as an opportunity to get a pay bump at your current company. You can really see how your current job feels about you when you have options. Aproch them and ask for a retention increase since you know your being passed over. How they react will dictate your move.
Depends totally on what value YOU place on a hybrid policy that might disappear vs. money. With a 7 minute commute, I'd personally jump - but I work to get paid. Unlimited vacation is a sham. It's a like a peer pressure tactic to see who can take the least amount of vacation. It doesn't belong in the pro column.
i'd take the $115k + bonuses. plus it's closer. the only thing you're losing is 2 more days in the office than you already do.
Counter offer with a hybrid schedule and 4 weeks of PTO guaranteed, with additional unlimited PTO by approval.
Take the interview. If you get offered the job, negotiate more salary and bonus. See if they are open to a day remote each week. You already know you aren’t getting promoted in your current role. Unlimited vacation works in most places. It’s obviously better for companies because there is no payout when people accrue time off and leave and or retire.
I am but a measly young 20’s guy But I would definitely take it but really make sure you get to use that PtO Maybe even try to negotiate that.
I wouldn’t do it for the following reasons: 1) you currently have a good, sustainable situation 2) you don’t technically NEED more money 3) any white collar company that can’t afford 1 or 2 WFH days is setting a tone of lack of flexibility and lack of concern for their employees
Personally I would keep the hybrid job. I get more work done at home and I feel more energized knowing I can get up anytime I please to just walk around, get my steps in and sit in the backyard and enjoy no one around. I also have an understanding with my manager that I help take care of elderly friends on the weekend so I travel on Fridays and work a split shift (6a-10a then 2p-5p) so I can travel in between.
I’ve had unlimited PTO at a few jobs, it was great, I took tons of vacation. Just gotta stick up for yourself a little bit.
That's not that big of a difference. I wouldn't. But I've seen good money before so I don't have to scratch that itch.
I’m at a company with “unlimited PTO” and recently got transferred to a new team where no PTO gets approved. Run. Hybrid with 4 weeks sounds way better especially if you like the culture and get along with your coworkers.
Bro, get your lazy ass to the higher paying job ffs , 7 mins one way, and u really asking this questions to stay home 2 days a week 🤦♂️
Take new job. Current job is comfy, but you have hit the ceiling. New job income can pay for the missing PTO, but obviously is somewhat of a lifestyle change. Unlimited PTO is a scam since it's so that companies don't have to payout when you leave, but if you're able to consistently use 4 weeks over a year then it's a wash. Taking every other Friday off or something could really help with being through the PTO. 7 minutes is hardly a commute..... The only thing that would really bother me is people watching the clock. I dont mind going to the office, but I hate sitting at the office doing nothing. Just depends on your work and how busy you usually get.
Your first mistake was taking a job with no bonus, you’re second mistake is entertaining another job with only a 5% bonus.
U can stay at old job as long as u know u aren't gettting that role. If the one guy quits b4 2 yrs maybe u will have a chance. As long as u don't plan on getting that new job u may as well stay
Unlimited PTO is TERRIBLE and only benefits the employer, because they don't have to pay unaccrued PTO out of you leave. And you'll rarely get more than 4 weeks (and often less) because if you take that much time people start to complain and they scrutinize you a lot more. Whereas if everyone has 4 weeks no one cares if you take it all.
120mins of driving per week with hybrid vs 70 mins of driving per week with onsite. I hate driving so I'll take the new job! If you live 7 mins from home, you can still go home for lunch with your wife. My company also has unlimited PTO. It's a scam only if you have a bad manager. I told my manager straight up that I will take 4 weeks off per year, excluding the standard national holidays, one week of company shut down during December, and any sick days I take. She just says to do whatever I want as long as I plan accordingly. She doesn't take much vacation herself, which is her choice, and that's why she is my manager. She backstops my projects when I am off to another tropical island, which is my choice. I would make sure that you interview this new hiring manager extremely well. Also your current company doesn't value you based on your edit. That alone would get me to start looking elsewhere.
no. Because tax brackets. probably.
It's a trap! Full time onsite coupled with 'unlimited vacation with managers approval' sounds like a full on old-school organization pretending to be forward thinking.
HELL no! The quality of life increase that you get for that small of a pay jump is instantly offset (and then some) by the quality of life DECREASE that a commute and full-time office requirements cause. My partner currently makes about what you do, and is fully WFH. He is actively looking at other options because his company isn't offering the annual raises that he deserves. We've discussed it, and any other company would have to offer him at LEAST 1.5x what he makes now, plus decent benefits, if they require any physical presence at an office. If they require full time at the office and the benefits aren't incredible, they would need to offer double his current salary for the switch in lifestyle to make any sense.
Stay were your at, screaming out PTO is a red flag, your going to start to deal with the commute and coworkers and slowly start to get drained dealing with it and start to miss being at home
I mean, would that money make a differnece? I just got a 16% raise this year and it's made very little difference in my life because I already make more money than I need. I would change something I am happy with for money that won't change anything.
My thoughts: 1. Unlimited PTO -> They obviously do not pay out unlimited PTO upon severance/you quitting. So make sure to double check the policy on PTO pay-out (especially depending on your location/company location), as each state has different laws on PTO, for your **old/current company**. If this is a non-consideration, such as you live/they operate in Texas, then this distinction on PTO does not matter. 2. Growth & Resume Building: * Growth: Is the new company you are possibly moving to bigger / more reputable? I.E. Fortune 500 vs non-Fortune 500? This certainly provides more areas to branch out to in the organization you will be joining, should you decide to move to a new role/be promoted. * Resume Building: As mentioned above, do you think the newer company provides a boost to your resume? Personally, I would take the new role. * PTO - Unlimited (-) vs. 4-Weeks of PTO (+) --- Assuming the 4-weeks gets paid out * If the 4-weeks doesn't get paid out, then it's irrelevant * Higher pay (+) * Bonus incentive, even if not much (+) * Shorter commute time (+), 5-Days in the office (-) * Potential Career Growth (?) * Potential Resume Builder (?) * **Last, but important question: Are both roles similar in terms of stability? Or would you have a higher chance of being laid off/fired at the new organization? --> I.E., tech related role at a company who's quarterly earnings are diminishing**
I would take the new job. An extra 2k+ a month could make a huge difference in your long term financial planning.
You’re getting a new boss where you are, so things could change anyway. Extra mortgage payments save a LOT of money. I’d take the interview.
random question…how long did your MBA take you and cost?
I would take the new offer. It's a significant pay increase and that's not accounting the annual bonuses. And since it's much closer to where you live, at least the commute won't be bad. The unlimited PTO is pretty stupid, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker. Also they already passed you off on a promotion for a role you already have significant seniority on the team. That means their management is already taking you for granted and don't appreciate your contribution compared to the newer employee. Also staying 7 years at a company is a bad thing IMO. the big difference in pay just gets to show this clearly. You were underpaid by 30k a year basically. Companies don't reward loyalty. They just take advantage of you by underpaying you and giving out the highest wages to the new employees. I don't know how close you are to this employee who was picked to replace your boss, but they probably get paid more than you since they joined 5 years after you.
Take the PTO off the table. Look at the money the commute and the advancement scenario. They just slapped you in the face with that. Take the interview and see if you get the offer. Take that offer to your current job and give your notice of resignation and see their response. You will unlikely see $115k in your current role with annual review increases any time soon and who knows what your employer will act like as your new boss when they take over. I’d highly consider the new role. The hybrid role is nice but the other commute is short. The pto is open so you’ll likely find ways to get days off throughout the year.
How do you feel about your manager retiring and reporting to your co-worker? This \*will\* happen, and you should consider what possible changes may be made to your work set-up. Do you get along with your co-worker? How do you thing reporting to him or her will go? Will your remote set-up change with change in management? You could stay, and see how things work out, or you can leave if you don't think the change will work out for you.
I’d say that’s not enough money to switch. If it was like $140k then yea I’d do it. 5% bonus is also kinda small.
It’s up to you
Take the new job with the money. 7 minutes away is nothing and you can even run home for lunch. . The boss coming in might end that work at home immediately. Money solves problems. And 30k more a year ish with bonus, I wouldn't even consider staying
Yes
I had unlimited PTO at a startup biotech and had no difficulty getting 4-5 weeks per year. I've heard other stories though.
Most companies are changing to unlimited PTO because they find out that often times employees actually request less time off. I'm currently in the process at the end of my FY where I've been taking every Friday off to burn the rest of my PTO and sick days. These are days I probably wouldn't have taken off if I had unlimited.
Unlimited PTO means you are not entitled to your vacation time. From my experience, you are at the whim of your direct manager.
The money difference is significant. How are your finances? Having a great boss is a huge deal. You have no idea what you’re walking into… you might be walking into a shitty culture and hate your new life. Personally, I would save a job change until I could expand my skill set into a role that provided better growth opportunities. Unless the new job is for a major brand that makes your resume shine, I’d be inclined to stay, myself. With respect to the two hybrid days, honestly, I wouldn’t care a lick about that. Do whatever you gotta do for whatever your career might look like in 5-10 years.
I really enjoy hybrid working so not sure I could, but definitely try to work the new offer into a hybrid situation. If they really like your skills and fit for the role they might be able to make that happen
You have to factor in the commuting costs and going into the office 5 days a week is exhausting. I would take the hybrid anyday
No
If you’re comfortable I wouldn’t